WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.200 Private, discrete, Rise Airport runs, sight saying, proms, weddings and 2 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.160 romantic date nights are all ahead in your future with 3 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:11.439 Lux Transportation, karaoke, disability friendly and no problem. We're also 4 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:14.279 senior citizen friendly too. Call it text Mister Holland is 5 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:16.160 to take away the stress at nine five to one 6 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:19.559 three nine nine five four two five. That's nine five 7 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:23.280 one three nine nine five four two five Lux Transportation. 8 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.120 When you need the absolute. 9 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:29.480 Best, Killustina KCAA Low Melinda at one O six point 10 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:32.320 five FM K two ninety three c F Burrito Valley. 11 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.600 The information economy has a ride. The world is teeming 12 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:40.880 with innovation as new business models reinvent every industry industry. 13 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:45.280 Inside Analysis is your source of information and insights about 14 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:47.840 how to make the most of this exciting new era. 15 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:52.240 Learn more at inside analysis dot com, insideanalysis dot com. 16 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.200 And now here's your host, Eric Kavanaugh. 17 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.320 All right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello and welcome to the 18 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:05.439 only coast to coast radio show all about the information economy. 19 00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:08.239 It's called Inside Analysis or True Layer Kavan. I hear 20 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:12.239 with my old buddy from ages ago. We haven't seen 21 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.359 each other in like fifteen years time fliers. We're having fun. 22 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:20.480 Mark Pico, he is quite the innovator. He's taught at TDWY, 23 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:22.920 He's taught all sorts of different classes, and he's a 24 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:25.560 real thinker. And so we were talking earlier about the 25 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.480 whole concept of value and what is value. People say, 26 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:31.799 when you're pushing a project, oh, there's no value? Well 27 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:33.760 what do you mean by that? So I'll just throw 28 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:36.239 it over to you to kind of dive in on that, Mark. 29 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.239 Value is this concept that everyone thinks they know, everyone 30 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.719 thinks they understand, but once you start kind of drilling down, 31 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.439 it could be hard to define. Right. 32 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.079 That's so true, Eric, I guess whatgind me thinking with 33 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.000 this over the last little while. As there's many themes 34 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:54.719 of blogs and webinars and presentations that say, we you know, 35 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:58.359 the failure rate of data related projects is pretty high. 36 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.920 Why value wasn't created? I think, what what does that 37 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.519 actually mean? Value? I'm not an economist, I'm not a 38 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.520 financial person. I started thinking, how can I think about 39 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.319 value in a way that unifies people's thinking? And I 40 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:16.360 started thinking value is something I care about. And when 41 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.879 I say I there's different types of people as stakeholders 42 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.439 that care about different things, So how do we think 43 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.520 about value from Department AD to Department B to Department C. 44 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:32.879 That unifies the flow and connection between these. So I've 45 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:38.680 started thinking about thinking about value as something created if 46 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.240 my objectives are meant it. Those objectives mean I personally 47 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.319 care about this happening, right, And I started to think 48 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.319 about what are the different things we care about in companies? 49 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:51.840 And I'm taking further from a data driven lens, you know, 50 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.159 because I've given talks before and you know about data governance. 51 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:57.800 So people say, well, where's the value of data governance? 52 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.759 I think, what are you really asking? What does that mean? 53 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:06.599 So I started thinking about conductivity and flow in companies, 54 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.919 and I started thinking about value as something has a 55 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:12.520 life cycle to it and it exists in different kinds 56 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:16.120 of stages. And I started thinking about how do I 57 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:21.400 organize this in a way that's simple and meaningful. So 58 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:23.400 I coined the term that I'm kind of building out 59 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:27.479 something called value literacy, right, And value literacy means literacy 60 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.599 if anything, means I can have a conversation with you 61 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:33.560 about it because I know the concepts, I know the vocabulary. 62 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:36.719 So this means if I know how to converse with 63 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.360 my stakeholders, we should have something in common to discuss. 64 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.360 And if we think about the different kinds of people 65 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:47.199 that work in the data field within a company, it's 66 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.960 very very broad and very very diverse. And I started 67 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:52.919 thinking about this. I don't know what organize this in 68 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.759 a way that's kind of simple yet meaningful, and I 69 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:59.360 started creating. My first thinking was, let's think about value, 70 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.400 like like energy, like charging a battery. When you charge 71 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.400 a battery, you're creating potential energy. But if that battery 72 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.000 is never been used for anything, it's there, but nobody's 73 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:13.439 using it. But when we use that battery in our 74 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:17.480 phone or in a device, maybe something's now coming on. 75 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.759 And so that's kinetic energy. You can now use your phone. 76 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.439 It's kinetic value because you're turning the potential into something actionable. 77 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:28.480 But people don't really care about having the phone turned on. 78 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.439 What they care about is booking an order on Amazon 79 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.560 with it, or communicating with their family or watching a video. 80 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.079 So what they really care about is the use you 81 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:40.560 have because the phone's on, And I call that realized value. 82 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:46.519 So you go from potential kinetic to realized. Now potential 83 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.720 is like raising data quality, building a data product, building 84 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:55.079 a report. Kinetic energy or kinetic value happens when you 85 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.199 use that to drive a process. So if I have 86 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.920 information to say, how do I scal do my salespeople, 87 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:04.519 or how to allocate my resources, I can now turn 88 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.720 that into a better process. The realized value happens because 89 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:11.879 you've done that. It's now you've got happier customers, you've 90 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.839 got more revenue, and you've turned this into that flow. 91 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.600 But there's two more building blocks of this. There's something 92 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:22.360 I'm calling structural value, which is really what data governance prepares. 93 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:25.800 And structural value is the creation of standards and policies 94 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.319 and they then enable you to then do data quality 95 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.600 to raise the potential value of potential value data. But 96 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:35.240 there's one other thing we care about its companies. That's 97 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.720 being revolui, dealing with risks, dealing with bad weather events 98 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:45.879 with you, technology failing or whatever, or safety issues. So 99 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.360 the fifth one I've called is resilient value. Now, each 100 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:55.519 of these things or value domains are created by something 101 00:05:55.560 --> 00:06:01.160 called capabilities, but some value is also enabled other capabilities. 102 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:04.959 So if you think about the world of data, think 103 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.800 about data generation as a capability. I get data because 104 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:12.319 I acquire it. I enter it into my screens. I 105 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.560 measured it from my plant, but somehow I generate data. 106 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.279 Then I advocapability to manage that data. I've got a 107 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.439 store and provision it, integrate it, protect it, make it 108 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:26.120 all the stuff available for others to use. Those are 109 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.399 both enabled by data governance capabilities in others that I 110 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.319 can actually because I position data governance as abilit to 111 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:36.000 share data right now. If I can share data and 112 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.879 as provisioned, the next capability there is called data consumption. 113 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.480 I can use the data that was provisioned because it 114 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.680 followed the policies, and now I can consume it and 115 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:47.759 however form. I'm a data scientist or an analyst or 116 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.199 whatever I am, and I'm now interpreting the data. I'm 117 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.839 consuming it to make a recommendation to my boss or 118 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:56.519 a decision maker. The last piece, or not really the last, 119 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:58.839 but the second last piece, is something called data utilization. 120 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.800 It's the data and acting on it. So I've scheduled 121 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:06.040 my staff at my restaurant better, I've got my salespeople 122 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.319 more allocated, I've got my plant with more reliability, and 123 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.199 now my output of my company is better. That's the utilization. 124 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:16.600 It creates the realized value. The last piece of the puzzle, 125 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.839 I believe is something called data leadership capabilities. They're the 126 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.879 ones that set the tone for why this is so important. 127 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:27.040 So data leadership. Without that, these things won't connect. They're 128 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:31.000 isolated silos. But if you take a step back, just 129 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.240 like you're charging your battery so you can run your 130 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.240 phone so you can order off of Amazon and have 131 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.439 a nice book to read, that flow, in my view, 132 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.519 is what value can be modeled as. And so if 133 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.240 I'm working in it, or I'm working in marketing, I'm 134 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.759 working in HR, we all see this differently. But yet 135 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:50.519 if we all say we're failing because there's no value 136 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:53.639 being produced, we need to know which of those five 137 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.399 types of value are we talking about it? Because the 138 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.399 word value isn't precise enough, and we just come plane, 139 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.839 we whine about it, it's not working, and we point 140 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:05.839 fingers and we walk away. If we can talk about 141 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:08.720 it with a nice, simple picture about how it's connected, 142 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.240 we can realize it's breaking here because of that interesting 143 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.199 and that's my premise. And to take this one step further, 144 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.879 I'm working to models in a graph database. So I 145 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:23.040 have some nodes our value items and some nodes or 146 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.720 capability items, and if we can see how they're connected 147 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:28.800 and go to a workshop with our stakeholders, we can 148 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.360 have conversations around why is it not flowing, where's the bottleneck, 149 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:37.759 where's the where's the where's the speed bumps? And that's 150 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.120 that's where I'm kind of at with this. 151 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:42.320 This is very interesting. I like the fact that you're 152 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:46.679 trying to dig into a better understanding of what value 153 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:51.399 really is because typically when people think value, they think, Okay, ROI, 154 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:55.320 what's the return on investment for this data governance project? 155 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.759 And the answer would be something like, well, our customer 156 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:02.000 satisfaction has gone on twenty percent. Our upsell capability has 157 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.759 gone up because the customers are more satisfied. So that's 158 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:07.159 the case where you can kind of track some monetary 159 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:10.679 value from the blocking and tackling work you did, which 160 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.279 is not very fun improving your data quality. That's true, ROI. 161 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.960 But to a deeper point, I think you are enabling 162 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.799 much more productive conversations about what to do next, because 163 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.200 that's really what every business person is trying to figure out, 164 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.080 what do I do next in order to get new 165 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.200 business satisfy the business I have. Whatever the case may be, 166 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.200 it's always pretty darn unwieldy, whether it is trying to 167 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:37.720 figure out a new market to approach, trying to figure 168 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:39.480 out a new product to roll out, a new service 169 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:44.120 to roll out. These are deep gritty questions that you 170 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.799 don't get answers to very easily, very quickly. And then 171 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:49.279 the other side of the equation is you kind of 172 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:51.320 never know. Like I remember what I learned the concept 173 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.080 of opportunity costs. I was like, oh, wow, yeah, that's 174 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.000 pretty interesting. So if I'm working on this, I'm not 175 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.159 working on that. There's a cost of not working on 176 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.279 something as opposed to cost of working on something. So 177 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.000 what is the opportunity cost? What are you missing? All 178 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.320 these things come out, and I'll give you an interesting example. 179 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.480 I learned a risk management conference years ago. I was 180 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:13.240 talking to these big bankers and they're all trying to 181 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.440 figure out how to hedge their bets, how to move 182 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:20.080 forward in a safe but effective manner in a very 183 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.840 dynamic world, which is financial services. And I said, you know, 184 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:28.080 don't you find that sometimes, like voting a certain way 185 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.360 will cause personal tension, Like people take things personally and 186 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.879 they get upset about stuff. And he goes guy said, 187 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:37.039 that's a very good point. That's why on our boards 188 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.879 we either concur or don't concur. So it's like we 189 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.639 don't even really say yes or no. We either concur 190 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.240 with the assessment that you've made, or we don't concur. 191 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.039 So it's a softer way of kind of getting around 192 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:52.440 the rough spots of conversations. And I kind of feel 193 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:57.159 like what you're building is that softening but clarifying structure, 194 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.799 almost like an emulsifier or something. What do you think? 195 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.519 I agree? I think it's stimular to have a conversation. 196 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.399 I think if you don't have literacy on a topic, 197 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.919 you can't converse about it. I'm a real basketball fan, 198 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.799 so if I'm talking to a person about basketball, or 199 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.320 they don't understand what's important in basketball, they may know 200 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:17.360 the words, but they don't have a conversation because they 201 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:20.279 don't know what's important. Right. And so you can literacy 202 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.600 on any topic, and you need concepts and vocabulary and 203 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.879 some sort of an underlying model that kind of connects them. 204 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.639 Right, that's cool. That's cool. So now you're building out 205 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.759 will this be something you'll give speeches about and consult 206 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:37.799 with organizations? Essentially? Is that the vision. 207 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.440 My goal is that I've been working on this now 208 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:42.879 on a part time basis, make you since late last year, 209 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.159 maybe around November I started. I've been thinking about it 210 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.360 for a long time, but I got kind of really 211 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:49.279 serious about it late last year. My goal is to 212 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.879 build maybe workshop content where we can assess and diagnose 213 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.440 your values trapped and why. So rather than complain about 214 00:11:57.480 --> 00:11:59.519 values not happening, let's assess in the term of what 215 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:01.679 to do about it there. So I'd like to turn 216 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.440 it into workshop material. I've already given a presentation last 217 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.519 week to a group of CEOs to kind of position 218 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.960 the idea. So that's my goal is to build education 219 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:15.480 content right now. Maybe it's some consulting and definitely workshop 220 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.200 content kind of things right, But I also parallel one 221 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.519 more thing I think of I think of the word 222 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:23.159 data literacy is kind of too narrow. I think of 223 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.639 the word data storytelling was too narrow. I do a 224 00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:28.240 lot of work in data storytelling, but I think it 225 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.639 is better talking about value storytelling because if we can 226 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.360 talk about value, we can have a conversation at a 227 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.360 higher level. Data is simply a component. It's not the 228 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:39.960 be all and end all. It's the value we're trying 229 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.240 to create by as it flows through the company. So 230 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:44.840 that's that's my premise is to visualize this in simple 231 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.960 diagrams that show where it's stuck, where it's broken, and 232 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.080 where it's not working, and ultimate where it does work, 233 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:51.639 and so we can kind of see how to, how to, 234 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:52.559 how to fix problems. 235 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:56.279 Yeah, I think it's absolutely fascinating. And you know, I'll 236 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.159 throw out another interesting tidbit here, which is, at the 237 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:07.320 end of the day, companies consist of people, processes, objects, assets, 238 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:10.879 and it's all driven by ideas. And you look at 239 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:14.279 some of the most successful companies, they pivoted hard at 240 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.759 some point in time. You look at Amazon, they were 241 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.879 all about being a book delivery service basically, and they 242 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:23.320 figured out, wow, we just built a fantastic supply chain 243 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.360 system essentially, or point as saler or everyone to describe it, 244 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.919 and they just pivoted to be selling whatever you want 245 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:31.440 to sell and creating an interface that anyone could come 246 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:34.399 along and sell. And that's because they obviously had a 247 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:37.960 culture where ideas could flourish. You could share an idea 248 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.720 and you can really get somewhere with it. And I 249 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:46.320 think your approach to understanding value can help organizations get 250 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:49.600 that kind of atmosphere in that kind of culture, because 251 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:51.320 that's when you succeed. I mean, if you've got a 252 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.519 company of even ten people, that's a whole lot of knowledge. 253 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.600 It's a whole lot of moxie and savoaf fare and 254 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.039 problems and issues and personnality whatever it is. There's a 255 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.279 lot of bad stuff, for sure, But if you can 256 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.840 work around the bad stuff and get to the good stuff, 257 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:11.279 that happens in honest conversations in the moment, referencing real assets, 258 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:14.720 real data, real ideas, real things that are needed. And 259 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:19.480 to do that in a collaborative way, in a collegial way, 260 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:22.679 that's the key. And I view your work in this 261 00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:28.200 value matrix as being very facilitating to that goal. 262 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.120 What do you think, Absolutely, my whole point is to 263 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:34.399 enable communication, and you can't communicate if you don't have literacy. 264 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.559 So where do you start? What are the concepts, what's 265 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.360 the vocabulary? How are they connected? And now starting that 266 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:43.480 to have a conversation in the space, we have some 267 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.240 building blocks to work on. Now this is a work 268 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.399 in progress. It's early days, so it's not refined yet. 269 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:53.360 There's probably other kinds of value not considering right, But 270 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.720 again I'm not an economist, I'm not a financial analyst. 271 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:59.720 So some people say this is too simplistic, but I'm 272 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.480 thinking if it helps break the dead luck of conversation, 273 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.759 then it's got value using that word again, using it's 274 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:08.480 got value to people because you can now solve problems 275 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:10.799 without being an e communist or a financial analyst. 276 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.159 Right when I like to do do you do this 277 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.919 analogy to energy? Like I remember learning potential energy and 278 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:21.000 kinetic energy, So you've got potential value, you've got kinetic value, 279 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:23.480 and then you've got real life value. Right, then you 280 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:27.440 also had resilience value and leadership value. Is that right? 281 00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:29.360 Structure structural the person. 282 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.639 Structural yet and go back on that again when it's that. 283 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:36.639 So, structural is laying the frameworks, the policies, the things 284 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:38.759 that kind of keep us structured. 285 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:41.799 In the company data governance program, the primary. 286 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.960 Output of governance to me is structural value. It then 287 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.639 enables data management to raise the quality based on that 288 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.960 structural policies and standards. And so when people say what's 289 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.399 the value of governance, it produces structural value. Right, And 290 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.000 if you know what that is, let's talk about it. 291 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:01.960 Because that's that that tell if it's successful, right, things 292 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:03.440 downstream of that will depend on it. 293 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.679 Right well, And that's you know, what's the old expression, 294 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.360 the car broughts from the head down right? So who 295 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.039 is ever at the top they're if they're bad, if 296 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.240 they're doing bad things and bad decisions, that's going to 297 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.559 reflect all the way through the organization, and that's going 298 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.720 to lead you to an unpleasant place. But the key, 299 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:24.200 I think is for extant organizations to leverage this kind 300 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.360 of thinking to understand where are we, where can we 301 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:31.679 go next? Realistically? What's plausible with our assets, with our people, 302 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.399 with our resources, what can we realistically hope to accomplish. 303 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.600 That's a big question these days, and especially it's a 304 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.879 big question because now with AI and all these technologies 305 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.039 and all the data that's available to us, you can 306 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:46.919 spin up a business model quickly. And the cloud used 307 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.639 to be that you had to hit ten twelve people. 308 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.559 That they can do with two people. So you can 309 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.039 spin up ideas quickly, but how do they scale? 310 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:53.720 Well? 311 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.799 In order to scale, you need that structural value right correct. 312 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:00.480 You know, if you're building anything, you need in structure 313 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.080 to connect things, to have standard ways of doing things, 314 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.240 and if you don't standardize, you can't scale, right. You know, 315 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:09.880 that enables the scaling to have some way you're doing 316 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:11.000 things in a standard way. 317 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:16.400 Right, standard processes, standard procedures, standard file formats. I mean, 318 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.200 if you get all the way down to where rubber 319 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.160 meets the road, standard nomenclature for columns and things of 320 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.039 this nature. If you do things properly, it's easier down 321 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.200 the road to integrate into mix and match, right. 322 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:29.440 And I think one of my big goals here is 323 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.480 also to get people out of their silos. Yeah, I 324 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:35.000 think one of the biggest barriers, and I kind of 325 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.200 attribute why we have these problems is, I mean this 326 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.039 is not new to anybody, but siloed thinking. Right, one 327 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.359 department things are successful and the next one down the 328 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.599 hall doesn't. Right, And well, then are we one company 329 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:47.400 or we two companies? 330 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:47.680 Right? 331 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:48.079 Right? 332 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.039 And that's the whole goal here, is to connect the dots, 333 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.799 get rid of silos, and understand that how things flow 334 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.920 should flow right independent of your org structure, because that 335 00:17:56.920 --> 00:17:57.440 can change. 336 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.000 That's right. Well, And I'm reminded of something I learned 337 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:02.799 a long time ago by moreen Clary and Kelly Gilmore 338 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.359 of connect the knowledge network. They used to teach here 339 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.279 at TDWY all the time, and she taught me a 340 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:13.039 lot about organizational hierarchies and structures and talking to each other. 341 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.640 And what you want are all the managers talking to 342 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:20.079 each other across divisions. This sort of top down communications 343 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.000 structure that we've all become aftimated to. Its kind of 344 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.079 going out the window. And you're gonna need to be 345 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.599 talking left and talking right to people near you and 346 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.160 around you. In addition to understanding what your boss wants, 347 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.759 what your customers need, you really want to get that 348 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.240 context from around you. That's in the structural value, it's 349 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:38.960 in the systemic value. Well, look this gentleman up online, 350 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.359 Mark peakel Peco. He is a twy instructor. Will be 351 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.240 right back. You're listening to Inside and OUTSIM. 352 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.640 Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, Eric Tavanaugh. 353 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.279 All right, folks back here on Inside and olicis. And 354 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.400 now I've got Josh Hicks with me from a cool 355 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.240 company called Jumpmine. They're right down the street from me. 356 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.759 I'm in Pittsburgh. They're in Columbus, Ohio, doing really innovative stuff. 357 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.440 They're as old as a DM radio too. Seventeen years old, 358 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.160 and they do a lot of data replication. It's just 359 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.400 one thing they do, but they do data replication extremely well. 360 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:20.680 We're not going to mention any company names. We're talking 361 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.960 thousands of stores, real time updates. And Josh, you were 362 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.839 telling me one of the real challenges with data replication 363 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:31.279 is when things go wrong, like a network goes down, 364 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.839 a store closes because of a hurricane. Well, these are 365 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.240 all real serious issues. When you're trying to track thousands 366 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.000 of data points and get them information about all their 367 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.920 products like updates and pricing or whatever. To be able 368 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:46.880 to do that seamlessly, that is a real magic bullet 369 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:48.720 tell us about jump mine on what you guys are 370 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:49.000 working on. 371 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:53.559 Yeah, so yeah, Eric, Like Eric said, specializing data replication 372 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.680 a lot of different endpoints, a lot of different platforms now, 373 00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:59.559 but it started with a lot of retailers having the 374 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.240 problem of being able to move this data between all 375 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.799 these locations and dealing with things that happen network issues 376 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:12.279 and communication problems and low bandwidths and bad networks and 377 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.119 things like that. And so the happy path of replication 378 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.680 can be pretty straightforward and a lot of people can 379 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.880 probably work through it. Basically, on their own with a 380 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.599 little bit of tech experience, but when you're dealing with 381 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:28.279 a lot of the thing unexpected outages, and when you 382 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.359 have a note offline, you could have conflicts. So dealing 383 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.200 with conflicts and not causing backlogs in the replication and 384 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.200 being able to be resilient to networks that are down 385 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:41.880 and stores that are offline, or sites that are offline, 386 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.680 or databases that are offline. Because you're not really focused 387 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:48.839 anymore on just the retail platform. It's pretty much used 388 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.759 everywhere data is needed and moved and migrated, and with 389 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.839 so many platforms out there now, it's not just relational 390 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.759 databases we're dealing with anymore. It's a lot of different 391 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.400 plays platforms with the nose sequels in the righthouses and 392 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:05.279 the cloud came along, right, So there's a lot of 393 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:10.400 benefits to utilizing lots of these data sources for different reasons, 394 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:12.759 and so moving that data between them is kind of 395 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:13.400 where we come. 396 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.720 In well, right, And we were talking about the history 397 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.000 of the database industry and how you know, twenty years 398 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:21.920 ago there were like five choices you could make. Now 399 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.079 there are four hundred and twenty five choices you can make. 400 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.680 I mean, it is that diverse out there, and let's 401 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.119