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Speaker 1: What is up fell Siico's I'm Dan Valley coming at

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you with Grant Hughes, and we are back for.

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Speaker 2: Another round of we're just asking questions.

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Speaker 1: He can't be held responsible when we give that disclaimer

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for what we're about to discuss. And we're about to

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discuss LaMelo Ball in his future with the Charlotte Hornets,

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which I feel like is a frequent topic around the

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NBA Grant, but not so much for this podcast, because

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I've been very stubborn in my belief that the Hornet

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should absolutely just hold on to LaMelo Ball and he

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will probably figure it out, or he's their best chance

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of having a tempole cornerstone. But I think with the

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emergence of Conkin Nipple Seon James Ryan Kulkbrenner, the way

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they've played without him, he's also injured again as we're

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recording this, and more right, ankle stuff. Brandon Miller by

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the way, dealing with shoulder stuff as we record this.

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That's someone else who's injured. We have to ask the question,

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what does LaMelo Ball mean to the Charlotte Hornets at

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this point, And.

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Speaker 3: Like baked into that is very much the acknowledgment of

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We've kind of been asking some version of it for

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at least the last two years, and it just basically

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since the injuries have persisted, and really even before the

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injuries were an issue, because he's such an interesting player

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where it's like, I don't know, he kind of might

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be the guy that lifts an offense by himself, like

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there's some numbers to support that. Oh, but then remember

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the discussion was, but I don't know. Yeah, he makes

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the offense way better, but the level he raises it

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to isn't enough. And then the counter was, and we

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brought this up. You have been all over this, like,

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look at the shooting that has surrounded him, it's been awful.

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Like a primary distributor like him needs someone to make shots.

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So it's just been kind of an open question for

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almost his whole career. To me, the reason it's different

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now is because the Hornets as an organization have made

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moves that suggests they know what they're doing, that they're

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willing to be patient, that they can identify talent, and

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just the results of that is there are more bright

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spots on this year's team, especially among the rookie class,

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than there have been a kind of I don't know

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most of Ball's tenure, right, so there's some new circumstances.

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The constant, though, is LaMelo Ball has good numbers and

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juices the offense and is hurt. So it's kind of

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like we're in the same place, but there are some

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key differences, right, So maybe the place to start is

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just to answer that question, like what is the rookie

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class and Charlotte's behavior in particular over the last couple

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of years since the new ownership and management structure took power.

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How does that change the LaMelo Ball discussion.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually wondering if it it changed, I think what

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else should change it? So my answer would be I

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don't know that it should because when you're looking at

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the talent that is still there is Brendon Miller has

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not been at Billboard for Excellent Health of late either,

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and so you're looking at they As we record this,

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there have been one hundred and seventy five Hornets games

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since Brandon Miller entered the NBA. LaMelo Ball and Brandon

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Miller have appeared in forty one games together.

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Speaker 2: That's we're in season three. That is absurdly low.

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Speaker 1: When you also look at LaMelo He's missed fifty seven

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percent of Charlotte's games since twenty twenty two, so he's

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played fewer than half of their games, and for his

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career at this point, he's averaging over thirty eight absences

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per season, And so to me, I think that would

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be the only impetus for changing the discussion, because Miller

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hasn't like can you sit here and say Miller is

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definitely cornerstone material.

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Speaker 2: We like Coon Kineppo. We just recorded a whole thing

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on him.

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Speaker 1: Go check out the that episode. Do you view him

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as just a tent pole guy. I'm still at the

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point for Charlotte to where I would go if not LaMelo,

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then who That's problematic only because LaMelo Ball has missed

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so much time and the results have been so like

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could he be more efficient? And there are things that

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we just have to accept to where we I'd like

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to see him play with this supporting cast even more

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than we've been able to see thus far. But you

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also have to accept his flaws to where it's he'll

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probably do just enough on defense. Everyone want to make

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you believe that he could be better or less rigid

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on that end, He'll probably follow through on his drives

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enough get to the basket for clips at a time

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you think, oh this is the year, but nothing just

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might ever come of it. His rim frequency always seems

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like it's gonna be not as high as you want

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it to be. Yeah, but I keep coming back to,

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all right, we don't have enough information on LaMelo ball,

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And so the question becomes will you ever get enough

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information on LaMelo ball? And if you're not gonna get

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any more information, what would your decision be based on

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the information that you have right now? It becomes so

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much harder to answer that because I don't think anyone

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around him has done enough or will do enough. When

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you're looking at Conk Nipple, I just don't think he's

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that guy to where you're saying, well, that is the

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direction of our franchise, and I think at this point

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it would be injuries you're worried about his health, or

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you're sitting here saying we think he's going to impede

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the growth of this team overall, which I I don't

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know that I buy into that either.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that is another sort of constant here, which

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is that so LaMelo has been subject to he's unseerious

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like as a criticism, right, and like maybe that as

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a cultural thing within your team and as just like

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you on the court, maybe you can't build a real

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defense or maybe you can't have a disciplined offense with

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him involved. But I don't think anyone has ever really serious,

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No one's no serious critic has ever said like, well,

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I think he's in the way of other players just

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because like what he wants to do. Yeah, he's gonna

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take a lot of threes and stuff, and he'll take

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some wild shots, but like he is a good passer

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with really creative vision, and like is the type of

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guy that lifts other players in a lot of ways,

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and we haven't seen that just because the guys around

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have him not been capable of making good on a

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lot of his setups. And who knows he might play

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differently if there were like just dead eye shooting threats

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and elite role guys for him to facilitate for. So, like,

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I I do feel confident in if you're Charlotte, the

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thing you're not worried about is man, I think when

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LaMelo's back and healthy, he's gonna make it harder for

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Konkorin Nipple and Ryan Kalkbrenner to play their best right, like,

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that's not, that's not we can remove that from the analysis,

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I think right.

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Speaker 1: Ditto for Brandon Miller if they ever turned together performances

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and right to your point about him being able to

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fit more of his threes are coming off of this,

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Like seventy five percent of his three so far I've

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come offices, which is way higher than it was the

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last year. And just the is that the highest mark

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of his career. It might be I'd have to go back.

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I'd have to go back and look, I just do

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you get to a point though, to where it's uneasy

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to say this is our building block and he has

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missed so much time and look at all the ankle

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issues that are in his rear view and what would

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it take?

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Speaker 2: Is it? I don't want to use the word trapped.

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Speaker 1: Because I think this team is very flexible in the

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front office by and large, done a very good job.

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But at this point are they just defaulting if we

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gave them truth serum? Are they just defaulting to LaMelo

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because no better options have surfaced? Or do you think

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is there would there be a team that could come

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in with an offer that would be able to get

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the Hornets to think, you know, like, yeah, maybe we

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should move on from this LaMelo era and then where

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does that where does that leave you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I do think it really because of the health

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stuff and because of what we've seen from this decision

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making group, is really just an emphasis on opportunism, like

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we'll take we'll make the small deal, we'll take, you know,

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we'll we'll make the incremental gains, we'll pick up a

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second round or here whatever. I think that certainly you'd

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be willing to listen, and maybe more so just because

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like at some point the you know, the injuries just

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reach a point where it it's like this is either

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priced in or there have been enough now to where

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the healthy version of this player is diminished and is

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not you know, like that it kind of goes two ways.

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So yeah, I do think you listen, and I do

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think you need to be open, as Charlotte to the

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possibility that LaMelo, maybe because of injuries or not, he

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actually just isn't good enough or reliable enough to be

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the guy we're building around. I think that's that's totally

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a fair thing to say. Then the issue though, is like, Okay,

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so we're trading him, what's the market look like like?

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And what do we want back? Do we want like

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do we want to pick package? Do we want someone

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we think is a more suitable cornerstone? Uh?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: Do we are what are we injured? What's our timeline?

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That opens up like a million different questions. I do

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think there are a lot of teams that could use

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a creator. The problem with and LaMelo can be that

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and and a high scoring, you know, lead offensive option.

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The problem is all of the questions Charlotte has and

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the ones that we're asking just follow him wherever he goes,

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so like why is he worth any more to some

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other team? And where's that team in its timeline too?

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That's an interesting thing to think about than he is

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to Charlotte.

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Speaker 1: The thing too, that Charlotte could play, like the car

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they could play, is they can continue to preach patients

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because including this season, You're looking at LaMelo Ball's contract

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and it's four years, one hundred and sixty nine million dollars,

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runs through his twenty twenty eight twenty twenty nine season,

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at which point he'll be I think that's his age

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twenty seven campaign. So it would almost take a bowlover

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offer and what you had said really resonates to where

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what other team would give Charlotte enough for them to

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feel good about trading LaMelo Ball while also feeling good

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about acquiring LaMelo Ball, because if the questions.

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Speaker 2: Are, can he drive winning?

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Speaker 1: Is a team that is a team like the Piston's

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gonna view him as the perfect compliment to Kate Cunningham.

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Is a team like the Rockets gonna come in and say,

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we're going to give you a bunch of stuff because

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we really need someone to to drive a different version

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of this offense than the one that we're playing right now.

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Those are two destinations that would be highly intriguing for

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LaMelo Ball. But if you're Charlotte, it's the cliche would

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be LaMelo ball can't be considered untouchable. If someone bowls

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you over with an offer, I think you have to

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consider it. At the same time, I don't know who's

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for people that want the Hornets to tray the melo ball.

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You run into a similar issue with Trey.

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Speaker 2: Young at Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: It's what is the team that is coming in and

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like giving you all of this stuff for LaMelo Ball,

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And even in Charlotte's case, it's harder to make that

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decision than if it was John Morant in Memphis where

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Jaron Jackson Junior is waiting there, in Atlanta where Jalen

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Johnson's there. If you decide to move from Trey in

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for the Hornets, it's we like Conkin Hippel. I still

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like Brandon Miller, but I don't feel like you can't

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just if you're picking a player on this team that

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has the best chance of being the face or the

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driving force of a really good team.

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Speaker 2: It's still LaMelo Ball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, after all.

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Speaker 2: These years, after all these concerns, for all.

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Speaker 3: These flaws, I think that's right, and I think he

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he young is a good analog. Although because of the

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length of Ball's contract, it's it's he's even more. This

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is an even bigger concern for him. Like it's not

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the same thing as like, Okay, well, I don't know,

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Desmond Bain got this, like he got this for the Grizzlies.

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Like Bain is not someone you add to your team

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and he fundamentally changes how you play and fundamentally affects

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the players you put around him. Right, he's he's a high,

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high end role playing guy, but he doesn't it doesn't

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require you to make a bunch of changes or like

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have the deep questions of, like what's our identity now?

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I think if you have LaMelo Ball on your team

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on the court, like he's gonna be a high usage

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player and you're gonna have to insulate him defensively, and

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you're gonna have to have certain types of guys, Like

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you don't trade for LaMelo Ball and say like you're

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gonna play the Desmond Bain role, like cause he sort

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of could. He could just be like a high volume

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three point shooter, but he's not a good defender. Earliest

247
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he hasn't been, and so the best thing for him

248
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to do is to be what he's been, which is

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on the ball all the time. He is your singular

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generator of offense. And it's like as another team you're

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signing up for, like a that's a full makeover if

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you add LaMelo, Like he's not just like a fit

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in guy because of the best use of him just

254
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isn't as that type of player. So like everything about

255
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acquiring him like kind of works against acquiring him because

256
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it's like you're saying, we're signing up for the Charlotte

257
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experience in a lot of ways, like we're tethering ourselves

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to him because he's not a role guy, does you

259
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know what I mean? Like that just it makes it

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so hard to trade for him because you're signing up

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for a complete alteration of like your whole deal when

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you bring him aboard. And is it worth it? I

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don't know if Charlotte's trading him, they've decided.

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Speaker 1: It's not, and they have more information on him than

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00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,519
anyone else too, and that's going to be what's kind

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of troubling. Is there a team that would stand out

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as you would either like his fig or that you

268
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could see coming over the top with that would get

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Charlotte thinking and even two before answering that is what

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would you you asked this question, if you are to.

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Speaker 2: Put LaMelo Ball on the chopping block, what is it?

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That is it just picks?

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Speaker 5: Is it?

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Speaker 1: You're trying to get a challenge trade to where this

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is just an example, but it would be like LaMelo

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Ball for John Morant where you're thinking kind of a

277
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change of we're not getting we're not focusing too much

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on the future. We're getting back another type of veteran

279
00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:28,120
that we just think is going to be better here

280
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long term or is it you're trying to get the

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younger guy with upside rather than the picks.

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Speaker 3: I think my knee jerk reaction is. And I'm kind

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of like thinking, like I think Charlotte would in this situation,

284
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I kind of want to pick heavy return because certainly

285
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at least two if you go with Call Prinner and

286
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,120
Ca Nipple, and maybe more than that of my like

287
00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:58,360
four most interesting players or rookies, and like, because Brandon

288
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,080
Miller again is a question mark. He's he's young enough

289
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,159
to where it's like, I don't know, it's not crazy

290
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,600
to prioritize a five year window or something like that.

291
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I think I'm leaning picks, but that might be because

292
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the type of team you trade LaMelo to might be

293
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more willing to give those up than a good young player,

294
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because like you, I don't think. I don't know, because

295
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,000
again getting into the types of teams you mentioned, what

296
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,720
Detroit is like one you'd think about because like, all right,

297
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,399
maybe Jade and Ivey's not gonna happen, and like him

298
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,600
and Kate is interesting as like dual lead ball handlers.

299
00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:36,840
I don't know, that's a weird fit. We will, we said,

300
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:39,240
Orlando forever. But like it seems like that ship is

301
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:40,799
sailed Houston.

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00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that's the team because it's Reed Shepherd

303
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,840
and picks and salary, that would be the team. And

304
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if you're the Hornets, you could then say we got

305
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:50,960
future picks and Reed Shepperd's.

306
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,279
Speaker 2: Been playing better.

307
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Speaker 1: If anyone has been paying attention, you could say, we

308
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:55,879
think that we have someone who might be a Coke

309
00:14:55,919 --> 00:14:58,600
cornerstone next to Brandon Miller, and then we got these

310
00:14:58,639 --> 00:15:01,279
extra picks. And what you're basically doing at that point

311
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,120
is saying, we're prolonging our timeline a little bit, but

312
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,600
we're shorting LaMelo Ball's stock, whether it's his health or

313
00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:11,960
his ability to impact winning overall, because I think it's

314
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,120
fair to say we don't have enough evidence of this

315
00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:18,679
player can't contribute to a contender or even be the

316
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:20,440
leading force of a contender.

317
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Speaker 2: To say that.

318
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Speaker 1: But that's the problem is you can the Hornets have

319
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:26,399
not given him that team, But he also hasn't been

320
00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:29,679
available to say, like enough, I have fifty missing more

321
00:15:29,679 --> 00:15:32,559
than half your team's games over like that over the

322
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:33,840
past three or four seasons.

323
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Speaker 2: It's not that's not great. So I could see a scenario.

324
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,919
Speaker 1: Houston just feels like the only team for me that

325
00:15:40,919 --> 00:15:43,600
could really because Detroit it would have to be you're

326
00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,679
not getting Asar Thompson, You're not getting jail En Duran

327
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,639
And so I don't know, I mean, maybe want Jay

328
00:15:49,679 --> 00:15:51,720
n Ivey, but he's headed for restricted free agency and

329
00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:54,840
he's been banged up. It would be Ron Hollanden picks yeah,

330
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,480
And I don't know, does Detroit want do that?

331
00:15:57,639 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 2: And then two what does that? Does that move Charlotte

332
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:01,200
or has already made its move?

333
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,639
Speaker 1: And so unless you think that, what a challenge, Like,

334
00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:06,720
what's the challenge trade Paalo Benco for LaMelo Ball?

335
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:07,799
Speaker 2: At this point?

336
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,639
Speaker 1: Is it Franz Wagner for a little bit? I think

337
00:16:09,679 --> 00:16:11,200
if you ask a lot of people inside the Magic,

338
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,879
they might feel more comfortable about Franz's future than Palo's

339
00:16:14,919 --> 00:16:17,440
just the way that team might be built. I still

340
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,120
I'm higher on Palo long term than Franz. It's there's

341
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,679
not a lot of team. I mean, Portland, but what

342
00:16:22,759 --> 00:16:24,639
are they what are they giving you? Or are you in

343
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:28,879
love with young handsome and Portland picks Chicago doesn't need

344
00:16:28,919 --> 00:16:33,120
a guard anymore. Apparently, it seems like what we're getting

345
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,919
at if there's an answer to the what is the unknowable?

346
00:16:35,919 --> 00:16:38,799
Speaker 3: What is LaMelo Ball's trade value? I think the only

347
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,679
thing I feel confident in so far is that he's

348
00:16:42,799 --> 00:16:44,840
just more valuable to Charlotte than he is to a

349
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,960
potential acquiring team. I think because like the acquiring team

350
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,000
you just went through the list of like packages, It's like,

351
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,879
I don't know, are they are any of them giving

352
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:53,639
that up for Ball?

353
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:54,759
Speaker 2: Who says no?

354
00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: If it's if you're using matching, I guess the matching

355
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,519
salaries gets tough because LaMelo's pretty cheap.

356
00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 2: But like, what is the core?

357
00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: There's Reed Shepherd and what's the guess Dorian Phinney Smith

358
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,720
and what like another smaller salary to get to LaMelo Ball?

359
00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:10,079
Speaker 3: But if it is, it is it? That's probably not

360
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,640
even close to big. I don't know how you get

361
00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:12,720
So let's.

362
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:15,319
Speaker 1: Say the let's say they figure out the money and

363
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,799
it's easan read Shepherd and picks for LaMelo? Is that

364
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,680
something that even gets Charlotte thinking? And then how many

365
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,559
first round picks it? Because I think Charlotte Charlotte probably

366
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:30,319
can't expect more than at LaMelo Ball's current value I

367
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,039
don't know if they get more than two first round picks.

368
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:38,640
Speaker 3: Like real ones, though they got to be real ones. Shepherd,

369
00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:43,079
I mean, from Houston's perspective, Shepherd is is not the

370
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,200
same as LaMelo, but it's kind of similar where it's like,

371
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,240
I don't know, it might be in there, it might

372
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:51,359
not be. We've seen indications of both. That's an interesting

373
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,920
offer if you're if you're Charlotte, I don't think you can.

374
00:17:58,319 --> 00:18:00,920
I don't think you can feel good about out Shepherd

375
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,960
having a better chance at being a cornerstone than LaMelo.

376
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,000
Is that crazy to say, even with the injury stuff.

377
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:11,799
Speaker 2: No, I don't think that's crazy to say.

378
00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:15,519
Speaker 3: I don't played at like an all starish level Seal.

379
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:16,319
Speaker 2: And read Shepherd didn't.

380
00:18:16,319 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: Really this is his rookie season basically, right, and you

381
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:20,000
look at you just.

382
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,200
Speaker 3: You don't know a lot about both, but for different reasons.

383
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:25,599
Speaker 2: So we've established.

384
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:27,920
Speaker 1: I would agree that he's more valuable to Charlotte than

385
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,799
any other team. We didn't forget anybody who would be

386
00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:32,240
the team that would just come in and give it

387
00:18:32,279 --> 00:18:33,400
all up for LaMelo.

388
00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 2: It's not I mean, he'd be fun in Toronto, but what.

389
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 3: Is it Well, let's go the other way, Like, is

390
00:18:39,759 --> 00:18:43,680
Washington like looking to add someone to make everybody all

391
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,799
their other young players better. Let's like look look at

392
00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:48,640
the bad teams, like does Brooklyn want a point guard?

393
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:49,880
Do they have any?

394
00:18:50,319 --> 00:18:50,880
Speaker 2: Uh?

395
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,319
Speaker 3: Like, what are the although Brooklyn.

396
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 1: Could build if if Charlotte wants picks, they could give

397
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,000
them one of their eighty first round prospects from the

398
00:18:58,039 --> 00:18:59,680
year's draft, one or two of those guys.

399
00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, just picks, and Brooklyn says, we're tired of We're

400
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,000
tired of not being relevant. People will be interested in LaMelo.

401
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,759
Speaker 2: On our pick in twenty twenty seven.

402
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,519
Speaker 3: I can see something, I think I maybe I don't know.

403
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:16,000
It's weird, like a middling team has no interest. It's

404
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:17,559
the bad ones and the good ones that need a

405
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,279
point guard. Like it's it's there's no like, go ahead.

406
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 1: Here's here's an interesting I guess it is a challenge trade.

407
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:27,119
But it would have to be LaMelo to Toronto for

408
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,960
I'm assuming Colinary boils picks and then is the salary

409
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,200
a manual quickly or RJ Barrett like that.

410
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:35,839
Speaker 2: That's the that's the framework.

411
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: It's got to be a lot of picks. I think, Yeah, Well, yeah,

412
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:44,519
and LaMelo would really change how Toronto plays, I think,

413
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,079
and maybe for the better, at least on offense.

414
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:50,279
Speaker 1: There's just something of him, Barrett and Brandon Ingram were

415
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:51,160
all on the same team.

416
00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:55,400
Speaker 2: There's just weird, right, Like that's just that's just like

417
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,680
kind of objectively weird.

418
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

419
00:19:57,319 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 3: I mean not to short circuit the discussion, but like

420
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:02,799
I think LaMelo, he's listed as probable. We're recording this

421
00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:06,319
on a Friday against Milwaukee. I think you just you're

422
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,039
gonna need to see him play well for both for

423
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,119
Charlotte and both for everybody else.

424
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,319
Speaker 1: You gotta we need like a month, no, no, But well,

425
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:17,599
if you're Charlotte, I think I don't. He could play

426
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,839
his ass off for the next month, and I don't

427
00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:21,480
know that it's going to fundamentally change how we feel

428
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,200
about his value to the Hornets versus what it is

429
00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:25,640
the rest of the league. But if you're Charlotte, how

430
00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:30,359
much longer do you wait to say before you these direction?

431
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,400
Things are never this cut and dry, But how much

432
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,200
longer do you wait before they're probably already thinking about it?

433
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,839
But how much longer do you wait before you kind

434
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,119
of internally decide the moves? We are making from Huron,

435
00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:44,160
not that they've tailored so much around LaMelo ball, but

436
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,240
it's we're making these moves independent of knowing LaMelo ball

437
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:50,720
is going to be here or that we're not going

438
00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:51,720
to trade LaMelo ball.

439
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:55,599
Speaker 3: In other words, it's like, how much longer? Maybe they

440
00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:57,359
aren't operating this way, but it seems like they are.

441
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,880
How much longer do the Hornets think and function and

442
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,480
work as if LaMelo is the guy, like want you

443
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:10,440
know around whom they're basing all their decisions. Is that

444
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:12,119
is that a different version or is that like kind

445
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:12,880
of what you're asking.

446
00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:14,599
Speaker 1: It's kind of what I'm saying, But it's also I

447
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,039
don't know if they've done anything to this point that

448
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,599
really who have they passed on?

449
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:19,079
Speaker 2: Right?

450
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: They're like where it said, it's if anything. With the

451
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:25,240
number of guards that they had on this roster to

452
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:27,519
begin the season, you could almost wonder where they're planning

453
00:21:27,559 --> 00:21:29,440
around the ball missing a bunch of times.

454
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 3: Well, they again smart management, which they have like should

455
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:36,839
be doing. Should that was recorrect that they've been approved

456
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,400
correct already? I mean so, I guess because of the

457
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,640
fact that we're having such a hard time assessing his

458
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:47,960
value assessing the types of teams that should want him,

459
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,519
assessing what Charlotte would even be interested in isn't the answer,

460
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,559
Like I think Charlotte should is willing to wait at

461
00:21:56,599 --> 00:21:59,759
least through this season. Like so, if if he comes

462
00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:02,440
back and like you said, he plays great, and you

463
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,079
get a bunch of information, maybe by the end of

464
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,920
the year you have answers to the questions we haven't

465
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,480
had answers for so far. And if you get more

466
00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:13,559
of the same where he's out again with an ankle injury,

467
00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,440
I think at that point at the end of the year,

468
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,079
because you can't if he gets hurt again, you just

469
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,559
sort of can't trade him because who's gonna want him.

470
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: It becomes the Iion situation where you get stuck a point,

471
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,400
it's not even you get stuck, but it's why trade hit,

472
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,480
I guess because if you want to get his guaranteed

473
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,880
money off the books or Zion Techley isn't guaranteed, but

474
00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:34,119
you're not going to get like the packages we mentioned

475
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,799
that I'm assuming some Hornets fans would think wasn't enough.

476
00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:39,480
If La Moball finishes another season injured, you're not getting

477
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:41,839
anything in that stratosphere.

478
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,759
Speaker 3: Right right, right, Yeah, it's risky to wait, so then yeah,

479
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,400
like do you really want to get out ahead of it?

480
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:46,599
Speaker 2: Then?

481
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 3: Is the is kind of the flip it question? And

482
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,000
you move him now because you don't know whether he's

483
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,160
going to be healthy or he's the cornerstone you've kind

484
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,839
of made him up to be and you don't care

485
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,359
because the risk just isn't worth it. You're as Charlotte,

486
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,640
You're making small, smart, incremental decisions. You're not in the

487
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,559
business of like hanging out for another couple of years

488
00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:11,279
while you wait for this like maybe maybe not transformative player.

489
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:11,759
Speaker 2: I don't know.

490
00:23:11,759 --> 00:23:15,039
Speaker 3: I could see them thinking that way if you're really

491
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,960
risk averse and it's just like the risk we're willing

492
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,240
to accept is we moved on too early as opposed

493
00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:23,319
to the risk of holding on to him and he

494
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,759
just sort of puts you in like a holding pattern

495
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,119
for two more years. Maybe that's the way to think

496
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:28,400
of it.

497
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:31,319
Speaker 2: This is a cop out answer. I think you wait

498
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,920
until it's convenient not to wait anymore. And by what

499
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,720
I what I would mean by that is they just

500
00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:40,240
need to reevaluate this year over year at if they

501
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,559
go to the draft lottery again this year, where do

502
00:23:42,599 --> 00:23:43,920
you land with that?

503
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: Like, and it's do you think that you can get?

504
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,200
Or has Brandon Miller been healthy and finished the season Oh,

505
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:51,160
doing a lot of on ball stuff. The passing got

506
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,400
even a little better. We think he could be between

507
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,440
him and Conkinippl, whoever we draft. I also, the thing

508
00:23:56,519 --> 00:23:59,079
that we have in factor in is what is the

509
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,119
urgency factor for this franchise because the front office has

510
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,000
been smart, but we know that the long game has

511
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:09,680
its limits. And Okay, Conkain Nipple looks great this rookie class,

512
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,680
but exceptional Lee McNeely so far for them really good.

513
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,680
We don't know what Miller is. Tejon Salon looks like

514
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,599
the wrong pick. What pressure are they? How much longer

515
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,720
are you giving this?

516
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,279
Speaker 2: Again?

517
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,759
Speaker 1: I think that they've taken the smart approach that only

518
00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:26,240
lasts for so long. Oh, Like the ownership is only

519
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:27,480
going to sign off on that for so long. The

520
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,839
front office is only gonna want to slept through this

521
00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:32,559
phase for so long. And so I'm curious to see

522
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:36,359
after this year because neither of us would. I mean,

523
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,079
if they were fully healthy, it's different. We didn't have

524
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,119
them as a playoff team like they could maybe sneak

525
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,720
into the back end of that play in territory. I'm

526
00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:46,359
very just curious to see what's the urgency after this

527
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,000
sea LaMelo Ball will still I'll be shocked if LaMelo

528
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:51,400
Ball isn't on the Hornets to finish this season.

529
00:24:51,599 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: But I'm just very curious. Says well, if you're in.

530
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: The draft lottery again, what is the level of urgency

531
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,559
you're approaching the offseason with to get better? And if

532
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,920
you're try to get better, Labelo Ball has to be

533
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,079
a part of that vision. No, it's not We're gonna

534
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:06,759
get better by trading LaMelo Ball.

535
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:10,279
Speaker 3: Probably not. I do think it buys them. It buys

536
00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:13,839
the Hornets time if they do keep hitting on their

537
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,119
picks generally. So not to say they need to get superstars,

538
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,720
but it's like, I think everyone would agree that they

539
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:24,720
got great value with every like every pick they made,

540
00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:27,559
so that like it makes it easier to trust the

541
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:29,839
front office. Maybe that by I don't know what, like

542
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,319
you put an actual figure on it, Like, does that

543
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,200
mean you get one more year of patients than you

544
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,279
otherwise would? If like the small moves you make keep

545
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:41,240
looking like good ones, I think that gets you some

546
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:44,400
But you're right, like you can't. It's not a process

547
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,440
Sixers thing where there's just like this indefinite you know,

548
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,880
build build, build, build, build, lose, lose, lose. I think, well,

549
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,440
that's never happening again. Like I think, I think if

550
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,240
you're even for Charlotte, it's like maybe there's two more

551
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:00,400
years before it's like, hey, guys do something.

552
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: And they've by the way the past two they've kind

553
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,200
of approached it is, will recalibrate at the trade deadline

554
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,160
to where they didn't come into each season saying we're

555
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,960
going to be awful. He moves at the trade deadline

556
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,039
because they understood the specter of their team with the

557
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:19,480
Lamello injury, so they started moving off of guys, is

558
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:20,759
that gonna be what.

559
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:21,599
Speaker 2: Happens this season?

560
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: Or like they've been frisky without LaMelo And so that's

561
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,440
what's also intriguing part of all this and the other

562
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:29,640
the final thing here is there a like what does

563
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,920
he just mean to the franchise in terms of entertainment value?

564
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:36,319
Because I hate defaulting to this. He does put butts

565
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,680
in seats. Your counter argument to that could be so

566
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:40,960
less than half the time.

567
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: Your counter argument is his butts in a seat A

568
00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:48,279
lot right not playing, So yeah, I think he does

569
00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:50,880
have real value. He is one hundred percent the first

570
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,839
player you think of when you think of the Hornets.

571
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:55,759
And it's not just because he's the best player when healthy.

572
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,920
It's because he's entertaining. It's because he's liable to do

573
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:02,519
wild stuff and sometimes it's spectacular.

574
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:02,839
Speaker 2: Like he is.

575
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: He is the reason, the reason number one you go

576
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,519
watch Charlotte. Now maybe that changes if Canipple is this

577
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,960
good and like, but that's just a very different thing.

578
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:16,440
It's it's LaMelo is the marquee name, and teams do

579
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,920
care about that, like especially if you trade him for picks,

580
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,799
because then fans are like, cool, i'll see you next year,

581
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,319
you know, like I just or or get I will

582
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:28,039
not be renewing season tickets because I don't care. I

583
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,759
wanted to watch LaMelo. Like that's it's not an insignificant

584
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:34,640
concern for for especially for a market like this one.

585
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: This is all to say, we like LaMelo and we're

586
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,359
continuing to wait for reasons that are both you know,

587
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,240
we we think he's really good, but also I don't

588
00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:45,880
know what else the Charlee Hornets are supposed to do.

589
00:27:46,279 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: Right, sit and wait, you want to. I think that's

590
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,079
what does LaMelo ball mean to the Hornets?

591
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: Don't know La. We think that the Hornet should hold

592
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:54,880
serve Wi Famel.

593
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,839
Speaker 1: But look, the ESPN report came out that people are

594
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:58,960
wondering when he's gonna come.

595
00:27:58,839 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: In the market.

596
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: If he's you, I just don't see a path to

597
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:03,920
where it makes sense to moving him right now.

598
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm just.

599
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: I'm just blinded by what I think is going to

600
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,079
still be an All NBA player at some point.

601
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:13,039
Speaker 3: If you were in charge of Charlotte, we would not

602
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,960
be having what does LaMelo mean to the Hornets? Everything

603
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,640
that I would be trading.

604
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,519
Speaker 1: Brandon Miller and Conkinippill just to make sure that he

605
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:21,799
continued to meet everything to the franchise.

606
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: You got it.

607
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: You gotta have you guys.

608
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:24,759
Speaker 2: What is up?

609
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:27,839
Speaker 1: Fellasiko's m Dana Valley coming at you with Mort Jensen

610
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,279
of the NBA Podcast, of Yahoo Sports, of Forbes, of

611
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,519
HBO Max and for what he's known most for only fans.

612
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,119
Speaker 2: We're here to talk. We are be on the lookout.

613
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: We're supposed to do a deep dive into rookies in

614
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,240
the Eastern Conference. That'll be coming probably the next day.

615
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:48,359
After this drops. But the Pelicans fire Willy Green, so

616
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,839
we're gonna talk about it. And the question I have

617
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,240
to you moret is, now that you know the Pelicans

618
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,359
have fired Willy Green, what changes about the way you

619
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,480
feel about this team?

620
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, they're they're on the path now. Now, look,

621
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,960
Joe Dumars is still heading this team. Gail Binston still

622
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,920
owns this team. So this feels very much like one

623
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,720
of those situations with Nico Harrison where yeah, was he

624
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:19,720
doing a great job?

625
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: No?

626
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 5: Not really was he the crux of all issues Also,

627
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,240
no way, more deeper rooted issues remains. There's also some

628
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:35,000
legal issues hanging over signed Williamson your best player, which

629
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:38,119
could also affect both your season and the players standing

630
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:42,200
within the league. Oh you know, considering what could happen.

631
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:48,240
Everything is just dumb and weird with this organization, to

632
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:52,000
a point where we're even seeing the fan base so

633
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:55,519
upset that they're kind of lashing out at Derek Queen

634
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,880
for the trades made by Joe Dumarsh, which I just

635
00:29:58,039 --> 00:30:00,480
very much met against. Like, that's not Derek Queen fault,

636
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:04,279
Like I have not known, No, no, not not big

637
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:05,799
members of the family, like I've seen it.

638
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: I've seen it.

639
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 5: Not like the prominent fans that we know and who

640
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:14,400
are occasionally visiting us on the podcasts, they are very

641
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,839
much supporters of mister Queen. But I have seen I

642
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,480
have seen fans mentioned that, oh, like, you know, why

643
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,000
are you not playing like the player that we gave

644
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,759
up all that all up for that up four? Because

645
00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:32,720
there that that was the expectation, right like, first you

646
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,000
made the the Pacers trade to get that pick, then

647
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:38,799
you looped that pig in with the Atlanta's trade to

648
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,000
get number third seen, and then you picked Derrek Queen.

649
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:48,079
So I think people were some people were expecting Derrek

650
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,920
Queen to become something that he was never supposed to be.

651
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,920
And that's unfortunate because that is not at the feet

652
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,920
of him. That is at the feet of Joe Dumars.

653
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: It's not at the feet of Willy Green either, because

654
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,119
of how a few games he had being in charge

655
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,039
with Derek Queen's development. I think what I don't understand

656
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:11,079
and I don't think anyone can understand. And Schmidt Dua

657
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:13,160
of in the Know, has been all over this. Yes,

658
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,160
apparently David Griffin wanted to get rid of Willy Green,

659
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,200
but owner Gaile Benson said no and that it was

660
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,000
a borderline stipulation that Willy Green remained with the Pelicans

661
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:26,200
when Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver took over. Joe du

662
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,440
Mars came out and I found Schmidt noted that the

663
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,359
event media availability had was on zoom and I don't

664
00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:35,240
think you could even see him after the fact, which

665
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:37,799
is just that's not a real level of accountability to me.

666
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: What is the justice his justification.

667
00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: For Why did you let Willy Green even start the

668
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,000
season so that you got to this point when all

669
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:49,519
signs were pointing towards he's gonna get fired. They wouldn't

670
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:53,039
let James Barrego be a real candidate for the Knicks

671
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,400
because they kind of knew, yeah, we're gonna need him

672
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,359
to be our interim head coach at some point. What

673
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,519
type of a process is that? It's just what is

674
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:05,079
the as Joe do. I'm actually speaking from Joe Dumars's

675
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,599
perspective here. If you're gonna get paid and your boss's

676
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,400
stipulation is but I'm not gonna let you change the

677
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,519
head coach, I kind of understand it. But he's also

678
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:15,160
trying to take ownership of it a little bit by saying, well,

679
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,880
I watched the Pelicans eight years ago and Willie Green

680
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,559
was I kind of liked his vibe there.

681
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:23,559
Speaker 2: That's not what he said, of course, but he referenced just.

682
00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:27,119
Speaker 1: Watching the Pelicans two seasons ago and thought Willy Green

683
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,240
deserved a chance, and so you believe that the chance was, Well,

684
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:32,319
we'll just give him fewer than fifteen games into the

685
00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:35,319
season and we'll wait until after they start h to

686
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,839
six to where this isn't even rock bottom for the

687
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,279
Pelicans right now that I would have argued was closer

688
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:43,000
to have they even reached rock bottom?

689
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: Is a question. That's what this all means.

690
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: It is for me, and I think it doesn't materially

691
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:53,400
change any thoughts I have about the because what maybe

692
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,039
we'll see different ways, but we'll see different rotations from

693
00:32:56,119 --> 00:32:59,240
James Barrego. We'll probably see a different offense from James Barrego.

694
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:03,079
What are you expecting? Like, what was Willie Green not

695
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:04,720
doing enough of? Was?

696
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: Is there?

697
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: I just don't, especially with the personnel he's given. It

698
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,160
seems by all, by all intents and purposes, he lost

699
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,880
the locker room is the thing that I've heard a lot.

700
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,599
Speaker 2: That's a problem.

701
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: So I'm not like that should be laid in his feed,

702
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,400
but just everything this organization did. He's not being announced

703
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:23,559
before games anymore, and was it under the guise of

704
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,759
well fans were gonna boo him. And it's I just

705
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,039
everything this organization has done for a while, but just

706
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:36,079
within the like since June or since that Pace initial

707
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:39,039
Pacers trade. It's just, you know what the science most

708
00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:40,160
scientific word.

709
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,759
Speaker 2: Is, it's icky. It makes me feel icky.

710
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 4: That's a good word.

711
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:49,039
Speaker 5: And it's it's true everything feels rotten and dumb, and

712
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:54,440
it's it's it's one of those questions where the fan

713
00:33:54,559 --> 00:33:59,000
base can they at any point feel comfortable and change

714
00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:02,799
is made as longest Gale Benson is owning that team,

715
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,159
because like, look in when Joe dumars and immediately you

716
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,599
can't trust his decision making process. He's presumably going to

717
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:14,840
be there for a while. Let's say, by some miracle

718
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:21,920
he has a moment of you know, self realization and

719
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,480
just goes to the organization says, look, I've made some

720
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:28,400
really dumb decisions in my very short stint here. I'm

721
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,079
going to resign immediately because I am dempally incompetent even

722
00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:33,519
if that were to happen.

723
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Which it won't, because there's only thirty of these jobs? Well, right,

724
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,159
is there really only thirty of these jobs? With the

725
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,719
way the executive executive I archy will right.

726
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,159
Speaker 2: Now, there might be sixty. It might be sixty.

727
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 5: Sorry I got sixty. But like, do you trust Gail

728
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,840
Benson to bring in someone new who can actually handle matters?

729
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:53,199
Or do you who do you like?

730
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 4: Well?

731
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,679
Speaker 2: Can I ask another question?

732
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say you could pick whoever you wanted to

733
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:02,880
run the p picans. Do you think that that who's

734
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,960
going to come in with the resources It seems like

735
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,360
Gail Benson and co. Are prepared to give them. Who

736
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,800
is actually going to turn this thing around? If you

737
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,039
put Sam Presty in New Orleans, I'm assuming the asset

738
00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:16,079
management would be better. But do you expect because there

739
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,079
probably be a mandate you can't rebuild for an entire

740
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:19,960
season and a half.

741
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: They probably looked.

742
00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:25,079
Speaker 1: At Okac's rebuild post Russell Westbrook or whatever you want

743
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:27,239
to claim it star as Wow, that lasted way too long.

744
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

745
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 5: No, if whoever you bring in, if that person is

746
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:33,400
not going to give in going to be given the

747
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,039
necessary bway, what's the point And that's where I think

748
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:41,480
the fan base is at right now. Like the issues

749
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,199
are with ownership, and as I've said for years on

750
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,519
the NB podcast, like that is the biggest advantage in sports.

751
00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:52,679
If you have good ownership, that is by far the

752
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:58,320
most important indicator of success. The Pels do not have

753
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,719
that now currently. They do not also have a great

754
00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:05,440
front office. So it's like it's a double whammy. Like

755
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,960
you're hurting the long term prospects, you're hurting the short

756
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:11,559
term prospects, and nothing is working. It's super frustrating. You have,

757
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,519
like I mentioned at the top, you have a superstar

758
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,039
with a rape allegation hanging over his head. You have

759
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,000
a roster that generally speaking is not working out that well.

760
00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:24,440
There's not a lot of cohesion there. You just made

761
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,519
a coaching change like fourteen games, fourteen games or actually

762
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:34,079
twelve games into the season. It's just all ikey is

763
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:38,719
a good word. It's blah is another, Like just the

764
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,760
sheer trade of you know CJ for Jordan Poole as well.

765
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: Just yeah, why are you adding money as an organization

766
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,679
that is notoriously cheap? Why are you adding money beyond

767
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,679
and don't tell me that Jordan Poole just needs a

768
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,239
change of role and he'll be fine in New Morman,

769
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,760
and he has been awful to.

770
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Start the season.

771
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: I wonder, well, do you think that this will at

772
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,559
least provide a semblance of clarity as to who is

773
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:06,119
really kind of running things for the front office?

774
00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:11,159
Speaker 2: Because Kevin the villain, but I guess.

775
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: The soon to be villain, but because Kevin Ollie's name

776
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,840
is already cropping up. And if they hire Kevin Ollie,

777
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,679
this is Troy Weaver's show, right, Isn't that abundantly clear?

778
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:22,639
Speaker 4: Yes?

779
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 5: And that's where things get murky and depressing. And look,

780
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,239
at least, the only silver lightning we can sum this

781
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,519
up pretty quickly. The only silver lining they have here

782
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:38,039
is that they got Jeremiah Fears and Durk Queen and

783
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,280
the draft queen I still like, although you know, you

784
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,760
got picked way too high, but like, he's a good player.

785
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,199
Jeremiah Fears is a guy who I think highly of

786
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,119
moving forward, And that's about it. Like Trey Murphy's by

787
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:52,639
far their best trade asset at this point, and they'll

788
00:37:52,679 --> 00:37:56,840
probably need to utilize that trade asset to get some

789
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,679
draft picks. In return at some point that they can

790
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,400
use because long term this is this is looking like

791
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,320
a complete shit show.

792
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,519
Speaker 1: What I think is also going to be interesting too

793
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:10,559
is would you expect them because even when you hear

794
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:13,760
Kevin Ollie's name mentioned, I wonder if they would pay

795
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,000
what is necessary to a head coach to get what

796
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:19,079
I think Kevin Alli would command, because this seems like

797
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:23,519
the quintessential. They're gonna end up hiring either a retread

798
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,559
or a first timer. I don't know what James Berego

799
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:29,159
falls into, but he would probably be someone who Okay,

800
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:31,079
he only has the experience in Charlotte, so he's not

801
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:33,719
going to command top dollar and just doesn't have money,

802
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,039
doesn't have the same mark. When you hear Kevin Allie's name,

803
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:38,320
I think people just go, oh, that might or maybe

804
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,280
he is someone who would be cheap. But I've seen, oh,

805
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,039
there's Tom Thibodeau's out there and Michael Malone's out there.

806
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:46,239
First of all, tips coaching Zion would be a disaster.

807
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 4: Let's just make that clear.

808
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: Right, They're not going to pay what it takes to

809
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
get one of the bigger names whoever you view as

810
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,440
the biggest coach, like even maybe some of the more

811
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,199
well known coaching quote unquote prospects. They're not going to

812
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,039
be the team that's going to compensate them enough to

813
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:03,519
get them. And so I'm very curious to see where

814
00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:07,119
this ends up. I almost expect it to land with, well,

815
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:09,519
James Morego is gonna get the job because he might,

816
00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:11,840
he might be good, but it feels like he he

817
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,400
will be within their price range.

818
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:19,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, because that's how they operate. And I wonder if

819
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,960
ownership has a good grasp of you know, the salary

820
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,239
cap and whatnot. I don't think so like things. So

821
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:28,719
I'm not an NFL guy, so you can correct me

822
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,960
if I'm wrong here, but it does seem like the Saints,

823
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:34,159
who the who has the same ownership group, if I'm

824
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:37,400
not mistaken, are also being run like a trash organization

825
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,920
at this stage.

826
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: What's the common denominator there?

827
00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: Ah, the fan base.

828
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 4: Obviously it's there, right exactly. So this is bad.

829
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 5: And we can sit here all day long and come

830
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,840
up with theoretical trades. We can come up with like

831
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,239
a plan. We can say, oh, if you go this

832
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,559
route instead, it'll short the rebuilding process. You can go

833
00:40:01,639 --> 00:40:04,719
through all that. The fact of the matter is, well,

834
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,920
you're probably gonna look at it seam that's going to

835
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,599
try it at some point to accelerate insto the rebuild

836
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:10,239
or retool.

837
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: So you think the Pelicans are more You don't think

838
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,880
that at least making this decision where they deserve criticism

839
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,159
for it.

840
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:20,199
Speaker 2: Why wasn't it made sooner?

841
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: Why wasn't Joe Dumars allowed to get rid of Why

842
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,039
wasn't David Griffin allowed to get rid of Lly Green

843
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,360
at some point? But they did finally make it. You

844
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,039
don't view this as a potential sign. And even I

845
00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:32,000
don't know if you saw Joe Dumars's response to it

846
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:33,679
was asked. I think it might have actually been asked

847
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,840
by SCHMIDTU of in the know, do you still view

848
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,719
Zion as your tempole building block? And he seemed that

849
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,920
answer that he gave seemed and I didn't hear it,

850
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,000
so I can't give you the context of it, but

851
00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:49,400
he seemed more non committal than he did when he

852
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,559
first took the gig. And so do you think that

853
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:54,880
there's a possibility the fact they made this type of

854
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,800
change at all so early? I think it's the easy change,

855
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,199
it's but you don't think it makes it more likely

856
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,320
that maybe they do look at hitting the reset button. Finally,

857
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,880
you think that they're still more likely to try and

858
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,639
accelerate their place within the Western Conference landscape and throw

859
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,639
the I know people appoint to while they have to.

860
00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:16,880
They don't control the unprotected draft pick this year. Sure,

861
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:19,320
but you reach a point to where it's that's not

862
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:21,679
chasing wins.

863
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,159
Speaker 2: Just so it looks better.

864
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:24,199
Speaker 1: What pick you end up giving up just doesn't at

865
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:25,440
this point doesn't really matter.

866
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 5: Well, see about the wins. There's some number floating around

867
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,800
in New Orleans these days about what happened last year,

868
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,639
the Pelicans and the Saints combined for twenty six wins.

869
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:40,119
That's a number that's been bandied about, a fair bunch,

870
00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:44,960
and apparently that's somewhat that's been coming. That's a bit

871
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,519
of a talking point. And given that, I would be

872
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:54,360
surprised if that didn't ruffle some feathers at the top

873
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,159
level to the point where they would come and mandate

874
00:41:57,559 --> 00:42:00,760
to basically say, win more games. And now I'm not

875
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,440
trying to be an agist, but Gail Benson is also

876
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,880
on the older side. Do can we rely on the

877
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,440
fact that she understands the complexity of rebuilding.

878
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,599
Speaker 4: I am not sure you could.

879
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: That feels a little I'm not going to defend Gale Benson,

880
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:19,199
but what owner does how many of the how many

881
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,840
owners do you actually think? Like you could say the

882
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,800
same thing about Herb Simon in Indiana, You could say

883
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,159
the same thing about James Dolan in New York.

884
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 4: A younger owner.

885
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,559
Speaker 5: I do think younger owners at least understand it to

886
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:31,920
a certain point, Like some ignore it, like Matt Ishbia

887
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,760
ignores it to a certain extent, he understands it. Mark

888
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,199
Cuban obviously we knew that he understood the concept of rebuilding.

889
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,079
Like there are owners and that's why I said agists first,

890
00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:47,239
Like I understand that that that's the crux of the issue.

891
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:52,360
But like, mostly it's older owners who fail to understand

892
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,599
that these things have become pretty complex, because when you

893
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:58,360
think about it, even even like older owners like Jared

894
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,360
Reinstorf who's had the bulls for so many years, like

895
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,199
the concept of rebuilding back in the eighties and nineties

896
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:07,079
or even early two thousands were a lot different. It

897
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:09,880
was like, oh, pretty simplistic. Oh yeah, well you get

898
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,559
a couple drivers to the draft and you go through

899
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:12,199
free agency.

900
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 4: Dodo. That's it.

901
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 5: That's not how it works anymore. You got to find

902
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,440
guys on the margins. You have to acquire multiple draft

903
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,280
picks in the same year. You have to identify the

904
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,159
correct year to do that. You can't send out too

905
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:26,480
many draft picks like there are swap like there are

906
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,760
a million swap options hanging over your head. And for

907
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,440
the first and second round. Things are just grotesquely more

908
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,360
complicated than it was twenty years ago. So what I'm

909
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,400
saying here, and this is a question I have generally

910
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,719
with every old owner in every sport, is does that

911
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,000
owner understand the complexity of rebuilding?

912
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: I think the bigger indictment would be, is this owner

913
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,239
willing to put people in charge?

914
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,079
Speaker 2: I pay to write people in charge conduct searches.

915
00:43:55,119 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: Because the other thing that Smidt has reported is that

916
00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:00,719
there was no other interviews held, there no search. It

917
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,119
was Joe Dumars, is what And that's my bigger as.

918
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,440
I don't look Gail Benson's role. I don't know if

919
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,960
it is to understand the complexities of rebuilding, it's to

920
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:11,760
put the right people in place who do or give

921
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,800
them a license to do their job and not handcuff

922
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:15,960
them behind.

923
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 5: It, right, But then she didn't. And that's that's where

924
00:44:18,519 --> 00:44:21,800
I'm at because, like, if you were charged with something,

925
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,559
if you had an you know, if you owned something

926
00:44:24,639 --> 00:44:27,800
and that you needed that to be managed, would you

927
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,599
put someone in charge who did who doesn't understand, you know,

928
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,440
what they're doing that. As an owner, you have responsibility

929
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:40,159
to understand at least certain elements. And that goes for everyone.

930
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,559
That's not just Gailbins, and that's with every single owner

931
00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:47,400
in professional sports. You have a responsibility to do your

932
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,119
homework so you can hire the best people, Like she

933
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,360
hired the wrong guy when like when when Joe Dumars

934
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,639
was hired, everyone was like, oh, oh, like there wasn't

935
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,000
anything optimistic there.

936
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,599
Speaker 4: Everyone one was.

937
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 5: Like that, that seems like a really bad hire. So

938
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,400
how can someone have done their homework if the universal

939
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:13,559
reaction is oh, that seems bad and the guy immediately

940
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:17,960
confirms your worst suspicion. At some point it comes back

941
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,280
to ownership and protecting your own assets.

942
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm not look not defending Gale Benson here.

943
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: I think it's more of a I just think the

944
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,719
way that I guess what you're talking about when.

945
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 2: It comes to that spirit of rebuilding.

946
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unique to Gaale Benson that she

947
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,599
would either rather avoid it or.

948
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 5: Oh no, no. If I made it sound unique, I apologize.

949
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,079
That's not like I we were talking about the Pelicans specifically.

950
00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 4: I apply this to every single owner in sports.

951
00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: You're running, you're giving what it.

952
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,519
Speaker 1: Let's just say that Joe Dumars or whoever, Troy Weaver

953
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:54,559
has the license to do whatever they want with the Pelicans.

954
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 2: What are you doing? What is your first order of

955
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,599
business right now?

956
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,119
Speaker 5: Well, attacking this from their perspective or am I attacking it?

957
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 4: I think our perspective.

958
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: Look, if we're attacking it from their perspective, we just

959
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:09,960
need to predict what's the wrong.

960
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,079
Speaker 4: Move and right exactly?

961
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 2: Okay, what should the Pelicans do?

962
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 1: And I guess this is really the conversation of when

963
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,280
you're looking at Zion Williamson, have you reached a point

964
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,719
to where it's we know the trade value would be

965
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,800
so bizarrely low relative to what peaks Ion could look

966
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,360
like if he ever stayed available enough, or are you

967
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,599
at the point should you be running this organization to

968
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:33,559
where it's as long as it doesn't mess up our

969
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:35,679
long term books and we're getting something. We just need

970
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,519
to like wipe this slate clean and kind of start

971
00:46:38,559 --> 00:46:38,840
it new.

972
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, the latter. I mean, look, you need to get assets,

973
00:46:43,159 --> 00:46:44,880
you need to get young assets, You need to start

974
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:45,920
a whereabil you need to do.

975
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 4: You need to do everything you can.

976
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 5: You know, you don't control a lot of your future first,

977
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,719
I just need to actually kind of do. Let me

978
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,920
just go back like that. I thought they were in

979
00:46:57,039 --> 00:47:00,639
worse shape with the picks. I know that tears well,

980
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,039
that is a pretty For some reason, I thought their

981
00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:06,480
twenty nine pick was also out the door. I might

982
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:09,360
mistake them for a different organization then, So you know what,

983
00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:12,880
that's positive. Now you need the additional draft picks if

984
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,519
you're going to start the long term process. That means

985
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,079
what can you get for herb Jones? Can you get

986
00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:21,960
a sweetheart deal for Trey Murphy? By the way, I'm

987
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,519
not saying they need to trade Trey Murphy if there's

988
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,800
you know, because he's cheap, he's super productive, he's you know,

989
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,599
he's a guy who probably could make a couple of

990
00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:32,559
All Star Games down the line. So I'm not saying

991
00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:36,079
they necessarily need to. But if if there's like a

992
00:47:36,159 --> 00:47:39,320
Desmond Baine return out there for Trey Murphy.

993
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 4: I wouldn't hate that, Dan, like that's probably.

994
00:47:43,559 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: The by the way, nor should you, because I think

995
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,559
it's fine to look at Trey Murphy's contract, what he

996
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:51,079
could do and say you don't have to move him.

997
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: I think that's totally fair.

998
00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:55,119
Speaker 1: But if you make him off limits or you say

999
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:59,280
that he is the only one who's untouchable, it worries

1000
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,239
me in this sense of, well, how fast is this

1001
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,400
team gonna try and turn things around that they think

1002
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,679
Trey Murphy is going to still be on this great

1003
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,079
contract when they're good again.

1004
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: Because this contract is awesome.

1005
00:48:10,519 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: What we let Trey Murphy's twenty five right now, he's

1006
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,519
gonna be what if we're being realistic, if you were

1007
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:18,760
to rebuild the Pelicans, he's probably gonna be twenty nine. Yeah,

1008
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,519
by the time that they're ready to enter contention. And

1009
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:25,800
that might be me being generous. And so that's the

1010
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,719
Trey Murphy discussion. It's not they just need to trade him.

1011
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,159
I think that's more of a discussion to have about

1012
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,920
Zion Williamson than Trey and maybe even Herb Jones, who's

1013
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:35,599
not trade eligible.

1014
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 2: To I think middle of January.

1015
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,079
Speaker 1: But the Trey Murphy thing that's always runned me a

1016
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:41,639
wrong way a little bit to where yeah, he's your

1017
00:48:41,639 --> 00:48:44,079
best trade asset, doesn't mean you have to keep him

1018
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:47,119
unless the plan is we're gonna be competitive next season

1019
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:48,840
or within the next two seasons. And if that is

1020
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:54,119
the plan, that concerns me because you're so far away.

1021
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, completely agreed.

1022
00:48:59,039 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 5: What I'm thinking here is with Sion, I'm putting him

1023
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,800
into sort of a bubble because of the legal issues

1024
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,840
that are hanging over him. I don't think any team

1025
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,400
wants to touch him or give up relinquished assets whatsoever

1026
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,320
before that's resolved. So I can't even take him into

1027
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,119
account in terms of like the trade landscape whatsoever.

1028
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 2: Which I think is fair.

1029
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: But if you're the Pelicans, it's probably and I don't

1030
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,760
know how many of their moves have been rooted in.

1031
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:31,519
I think you could make the case that one of

1032
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:34,800
their problems was that maybe they didn't consider Zion enough

1033
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,599
in a lot of the on the court, in a

1034
00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:38,920
lot of some of the other moves that they've made,

1035
00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:41,559
or the half measures that they've made. But you do

1036
00:49:41,639 --> 00:49:43,920
need to get to a point now to where if

1037
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,840
you're going to decide, oh, we're gonna actually rebuild, this

1038
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,280
is gonna be more of a thorough this is gonna

1039
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,199
be a different kind of process than we've been used

1040
00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:54,679
to over the past. However many years, you have to

1041
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:59,119
there has to be some show of you proving to

1042
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:02,119
your fan base that this is isn't about Zion Williamson

1043
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:06,119
or the Zion era anymore, and moving him for expiring

1044
00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:09,239
money would be the way to do that. He's a

1045
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,880
player who's way better than that on the court, or

1046
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,840
you at least need to put maybe even if you

1047
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,320
don't like fuelers need to be put out, or you

1048
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,159
need to send the message that he's open. Which it's

1049
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,000
kind of this open secret that I don't think the

1050
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:24,480
Pelicans ever have viewed him untouchables over the past few years,

1051
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,639
and that trades that have been mentioned, they probably sought

1052
00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:30,920
out more and found out that his value isn't where

1053
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,000
it needs to be as a as a trade asset.

1054
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: And it's tough to square away with you.

1055
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:38,039
Speaker 1: You're right, with the allegations hanging over his head, the

1056
00:50:38,039 --> 00:50:41,559
off court stuff we've seen teams like teams will it's

1057
00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:42,719
tough to account for it.

1058
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: But we've like teams don't.

1059
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: Operate with a that type of morality either, and so

1060
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,400
this is the Los Angeles Clippers. You're right, yes, And

1061
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,199
so I think the other thing is too, is that

1062
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,880
for them to say, oh, we can't move him or

1063
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,400
like they feel like they're forced and to keep him,

1064
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,760
that would be just sort of this like that's just

1065
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,559
a facade. So I don't it's easy for us to

1066
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:06,960
sit here to say, though, you need to move Zion

1067
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,440
Williams in or just don't play Zion Williams and when

1068
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,880
he's healthy, we know that's not really how this works.

1069
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,800
Is that the I don't know what other evidence there

1070
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,079
would be though, or that we would need to see,

1071
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:21,159
because is is there an alternative form of evidence that

1072
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:24,000
would prove the Pelicans are thinking about their future in

1073
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:26,599
different terms or does it all just come back to

1074
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,599
Zion is kind of the barometer for where this organization

1075
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:32,159
is headed or how it views itself.

1076
00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:38,599
Speaker 5: Well, I think I think that's the primary element. I

1077
00:51:38,639 --> 00:51:41,559
think the earlier point about trade that we actually entered

1078
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:45,639
into was like that that is a secondary point of contention,

1079
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,440
like where they think about him, like are they considering

1080
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,039
moving him? If not? What is the long term plane.

1081
00:51:51,079 --> 00:51:53,320
Are they actually trying to that? I think to me

1082
00:51:53,519 --> 00:51:56,000
that's sort of a smoking gun if they're trying to

1083
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,079
retain him and herb Jones for that matter, presume it's

1084
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:02,960
because they want to make a move at some point,

1085
00:52:03,559 --> 00:52:07,119
like to position themselves. So going back to that point,

1086
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:11,239
whether they're available or not, I think it's gonna lay

1087
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,280
the bricks for the future and tell us what we

1088
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:14,760
need to know.

1089
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: Do you and I guess we didn't really answer my

1090
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,000
original question. Do you think that this change, the Willie

1091
00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:25,039
Green firing makes it any more likely that they would

1092
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:27,280
explore or actually go down that path, or do you

1093
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:30,360
just not assign any sort of value to them making

1094
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,039
this decision when Yeah, I think I'm kind of with you.

1095
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,280
I don't think that this changes how I think they

1096
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,719
want to operate.

1097
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 4: God no, God no, are you.

1098
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,199
Speaker 2: Ready to take us out of here?

1099
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,039
Speaker 5: As you can tell I am, because there's just no,

1100
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:49,199
there's not a whole lot more to say about this organization.

1101
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,920
I will I will wrap this up by saying to

1102
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,480
the fan base, we feel it. You know, we're sorry

1103
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,599
for you. It's this is going to be a harsh path.

1104
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:02,400
It's going to take years you're going to lose a

1105
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:07,239
lot of your patients with this team, so like we

1106
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,440
can allow you an amnesty for a couple of years.

1107
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,800
Like you want to go join another fan base for

1108
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,360
at least a couple of years, I think you should.

1109
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:17,039
That'd be smart. Just abandon ship for a couple of

1110
00:53:17,119 --> 00:53:20,840
years until it's rebuilt. Yes, And to answer your question,

1111
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,400
you can find my work over at Yahoo Sports, at Forbes,

1112
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:26,880
at the NBA podcast. If you speak Danish, you can

1113
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,800
find it at Buzz Repeater and catch my game.

1114
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:30,519
Speaker 4: Coverage on each.

1115
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 2: Until next time.

1116
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: And as always, with the shout out to the one

1117
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:38,400
actually wants your shout out to Belviso, shout out to

1118
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:39,079
you del