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Speaker 2: The CIA has conducted a number of experiments that seem
too science fiction to be real, and yet we keep
finding that they are. This program is no exception to
that rule. I'm talking esp KINISIS and remote viewing. Follow
me down the rabbit Hole about the Stargate Project. Hello friends,
and welcome back to the rabbit Hole. I'm your host Stanni,
and today we are talking about Project Stargate. Thank you
James for requesting this episode. It has been mentioned by
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because I get way too many dms for that, so
please send your requests through the request and episode form
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hole dot gold right now. The Stargate Project, as we
all refer to it as, has gone by a variety
of different names over the years, depending on which agency
was operating the program. We know it as a Stargate
Project because in nineteen ninety one all the programs were
consolidated into one, and that was the name it continued
on as in nineteen seventy, US intelligence believed that the
Soviets were spending about sixty million rubles a year on
psychotronic research, so in response to the claims that the
Soviet Union had produced results, the CIA started funding a
new program called SCAN eight. Scan eight stands for scan
by coordinate or scanning by coordinate. These were the initial
experiments with psychics. Mind you, the Soviets are doing it
is the same reason they gave for Mkultra and for
the race to the moon.
Speaker 3: So it kind of makes me wonder.
Speaker 2: Like if their parents ever asked them that old adage,
if your friends were all jumping off a bridge, would
you do it too? And I bet the answer would
probably be yes, and we can get to the bottom
way faster. Because their mindset with this project was if
there's even a one percent chance psychic spying works, we
can't let the USSR be better at it than we are.
Speaker 3: Scan eight was.
Speaker 2: Exploratory research into viewing. It started out as an experiment
to test what might be termed microabilities, but seemed to
strengthen a macroability to remote view locations. With this, they
set out to test this remote viewing on a gradient
scale of increasing difficulty. Remote viewing research began in nineteen
seventy two at the Stanford Research Institute or SRI, in
Menlo Park, California. Remote viewing is the practice of seeking
impressions about a distant or unseen object purportedly sensing with
the mind. It is described as a supposed paranormal ability
by which a person can gather information about a distant,
unseen target. It's important to know that remote viewing is
not bound by time and space a viewer can view
anywhere at any time. In early occult and spiritualist literature,
it was known as teleseesia and traveling clairvoyance clairvoyantly with
the inner eye or in alleged out of body travel.
This wasn't a new phenomenon. Major scientists started studying this
in the mid nineteenth century, but as you would expect,
reports about successful tests of this gift were met with
a lot of suspicion and skepticism from the scientific community.
So this actually caused most of the studies to be
done more privately moving forward, that is, until the nineteen sixties,
when there was a shift in thinking with the emergence
of New Age thinking. In the early nineteen seventies, hal
Putov and Ingo Swan joined the Electronics and Bioengineering Laboratory
at Stanford Research Institute. They started testing psychics at SRI
in nineteen seventy two. They were conducting experiments where the
subject had to successfully receive a target that was in
a different location. In some cases, the subject was separated
from the target material by and l electrically isolated shielded room,
and in other cases the target was on the other
coast of the US so there's no way they could
have known what it was. Swan was often the subject
in the early days of the experiments. He would be
given a target location by latitude and longitude and was
required to immediately respond with what was at that location.
These targets were chosen at random by different experimenters to
make it harder to guess. They wanted to control the
experiment as much as possible. In one case, he was
given the coordinates for the middle of the ocean and
his response was quote ocean beautiful, blue, green waves, sunshining
ship toward north end quote. In another instance, he was
given coordinates to the Soviet Union and his description was
quote whend blowing their night telephone wires land flat place
with fields cold end quote. They classified this response as
a neutral response meaning some possibility of correspondence, with the
first one being a hit meaning good description of the
area near the vicinity of target because it was the
middle of the ocean. There was a bit of a
hiccup in the research though. They were testing psychics, one
of them being Uri Geller and having pretty decent success.
Geller would later go on to be internationally known as
an illusionist, magician and psychic and this is where it
all started for him. The DoD started paying attention to
the results of this testing and wanted to ensure that
it wasn't fabricated, so they hired a psych professor from
the University of Oregon, Ray Hymen, to go to SRI
and investigate. They specifically wanted Geller evaluated. Hymen sent back
his report stating that Geller was a complete fraud, which
caused SRI to lose their government contract. Geller took his
psychic abilities on the road. He started going on late
night TV shows trying to prove his psychic abilities, most
famously on August first, nineteen seventy three, when Geller was
supposed to bend a spoon on Johnny Carson.
Speaker 3: But failed to do so.
Speaker 2: He performed other tricks on the show as well, or
he was supposed to, but he kind of just like
kept stalling and taking breaks, and.
Speaker 3: He really kind of seemed out of sorts.
Speaker 2: He was saying he needed to focus, but felt too
pressure during the show, so he never actually bent a spoon.
And he also was supposed to pick out like of
ten metal canisters which one had water in it, and
he pulled out like three or four that didn't have water,
but never actually found the one that did have water,
And the whole time he's like stalling and kept asking
Johnny Carson to like ask him more questions. He's like,
your producer told me all these questions you were gonna ask,
and Carson's like, well, we only have so much.
Speaker 3: Time, so can you just perform a trick? And Geller
did not.
Speaker 2: Nevertheless, people started following him after this appearance because they
believed a real psychic wouldn't be able to perform on
demand every time, giving credibility to his performance or lack thereof. However,
during the same time, they were having successes with us,
the remote viewers they were also training. In nineteen seventy three,
Pat Price, a retired police inspector, accurately described a secret
NSA facility in West Virginia based solely on geographic coordinates
provided to him. He gave detailed descriptions about the physical
layout of the facility, names of several people working there,
and even gave classified codewords from file folders that he
saw on the desk, words such as Q ball, fourteen ball,
eight ball, and rack up, which all corresponded to real
intelligence data. Pat Price is actually a really interesting life
story that I think is worth an entire episode on
his own, So I'll probably do that as a bonus
episode on Patreon. In nineteen seventy six, a Soviet bomber
went down in the Congo. Details of this crash was
sent to the CIA psychic researchers that were operating out
of Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. Which is interesting
that it's that base because that's actually the same base
that is said to house the alien bodies from the
Roswell crash.
Speaker 3: So they are doing all.
Speaker 2: That research and Hangar eighteen and somewhere else on the
same base, they're doing psychic research. A lot of weird
things going on in the Patterson Air Force Base. Once
the CIA got the details, they enlisted one of their viewers,
Rosemary Smith, to find the plane that had gone down.
She began to draw maps of the Congo and then
pointed to a specific area on the map where that
plane was, and she was correct. They sent this group
out to the location and they immediately found the plane.
During the same time, the CIA wanted to test some
other abilities, although mainly focused on remote viewing, The CIA
wanted to test Swan's psychokinesis. They took him to a
medical center to test if he could influence the results
of a random number generator, and the report concluded that
the experiment was successful. I'm not sure why they focused
on remote viewing instead of testing and experimenting with both.
Maybe they did psychokinesis under a different project name that
we just don't know about. In nineteen seventy seven, the
Army Assistant Chief of Staff of Intelligence Systems Exploitation Detachment
started the Gondola WISH program. This program's goal was to
evaluate potential adversary applications of remote viewing, and in August
nineteen seventy eight, they submitted a summary of their work stating, quote,
this investigation revealed a serious threat posed by Soviet parapsychological
intelligence collection capability and demonstrated a need for a comprehensive
countermeasures program end quote. And you know what program They
chose to train the personnel for the countermeasures operation, The
Monroe Institute of Applied Sciences, if you don't remember, the
Monroe Institute also played a vital role in the Gifted
and Talented program. The report went on to say the
parapsychological technique they will be training in is known as
out of body experience, which means that the person's consciousness
is in a spatial location separate from the physical body.
Speaker 3: Quote.
Speaker 2: An out of body experience differs from what Stanford Research
Institute calls remote viewing in that during remote viewing, the
subject does not perceive himself to be at the target location,
but only observing it in quote. The reason they were
interested in out of body experiences is because they could
then have quote subliminal telepathic communication with individuals at the
target location end quote. So they really wanted to know
if they could talk to people and influence people in
the places that they were targeting. The Military Intelligence Group
wasn't the first one to reach out to the Monroe
Institute after the debacle with SRI. The CIA had shown
an interest in Robert Monroe in like nineteen seventy three
nineteen seventy four, but it really just never went beyond that.
A few other three letter agencies also showed interest but
ultimately didn't pursue him. In nineteen seventy eight, Gondola Wish,
which was only an intel gathering operation, transitioned into the
operational program Grill Flame Grill Flame was a joint operation
operated by the Defense Intelligence Agency or DIA, and the
Army for three years, terminating at the end of the
fiscal year nineteen eighty three. According to the Grill Flame
Project report created by the DIA, the main goals were
to evaluate the threat the foreign psycho energetics achievements might
pose to US national security and to explore the potential
of psycho energetics for use in US intelligence collection.
Speaker 3: Psycho Energetics refers to a.
Speaker 2: Class of human capabilities that are parapsychological in nature, specifically
remote viewing, extrasensory perception ESP, and psychokinesis. They specify remote
viewing and ESP as the ability of an individual to
access and describe remote geographic locations or to access and
describe concealed data via undefined transmission mechanisms. Psychokinesis is described
as the mental ability to influence physical or biological systems
via undefined physical mechanisms. Some of the key findings to
come out of this project was that remote viewing is
a real phenomenon. It is not degraded by distance or shielding.
Remote viewing ability can be improved by appropriate training procedures.
It has the potential for US intelligence applications and a
potential threat to US national security exists from foreign achievements
in psycho energetics. They found that the Chinese and Soviets
had high level government backing that their research was well funded.
Through this program, they developed training methods how to evaluate
the remote viewing data, and they compile a database.
Speaker 3: Full of research. It was the first time that they.
Speaker 2: Were really diving in THEDA recruited the help of the
SRI because they had begun remote viewing research ten years
prior to this and was the best institute for the job.
They were find a lot of their techniques during this project,
and all the sessions were conducted under controlled conditions.
Speaker 3: This was for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 2: They wanted to verify the results that they were getting
and to continue to get results. They wanted their success
rate to really skyrocket. Some of the tasks assigned to
the viewers were to locate hostages, enemy facilities, submarines, and
even Soviet weapons systems. When Grill Flame was defunded at
the end of fiscal year nineteen eighty three, it returned
to just being an army program called Center Lane Cindra
Lane was the name of the remote viewing program covering
from the end of nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty five,
when it lost funding once again. This program was developed
by Ingo Swan and Hal Putov from SRI. They trained
five people in the controlled remote viewing or CRV method.
Not long after the turnover from Grill Flame to Center Lane,
the program had another turnover in nineteen eighty six. The
DIA got involved once again and the project got the
name Sunstreak. This project was not just research based. They
were an operational remote viewing unit, with the anticipated applications
being descriptions of otherwise inaccessible areas to bos for redirecting
other collection assets, narrowing down locations and overall functions, anticipating
near term activities or events, and determining the presence or
absence of targets they wanted to use this for like
treaty monitoring and hostage situations. Lastly, in nineteen ninety one,
the project got its final name Stargate. Operated under the
DIA and CIA, This is the last official project utilizing
remote viewing. This is when the contract transferred from SRI
to Science Applications International Corporation or SAIC. The three main
activity areas this program focused on were foreign assessment, external research, and.
Speaker 3: In house investigations.
Speaker 2: Basically the same things as all the other programs. What
is the Soviet Union doing when it comes to psychic
or parapsychological research? What more can we learn about it?
And let's put it to the test. And like the
other programs, they were giving remote viewers targets with miss
animal sensory cues like vague coordinates or sealed envelopes, sometimes both.
Sometimes they'd give them a sealed envelope on the table
and give them coordinates and try to get them to
create something. The point was to control the conditions as
much as possible, to eliminate the random guesses or guessing
strategies that could potentially be used. The goal was still
the same lowcate hostages describe facilities and gather information where
no physical access was available. The only reason it kept
changing names and agencies is due to the money. Like always,
especially when it comes to the government. Officially, the Stargate
project came to a close in nineteen ninety five due
to the conclusion that it did not produce reliable, useful intelligence,
so it didn't justify funding anymore. Plus the Cold War
into in nineteen ninety one, so they weren't fighting the
Soviet Union anymore. Publicly, they wanted to close the project.
The CIA asked the American Institute for Research AIR to
investigate the program for effectiveness and found that remote viewing
is barely better than pure chance. No remote viewing ever
offered actionable information for any intelligence operation, although it did
offer actionable information when it came to the recovery operation
in the case of the Soviet bomber in the.
Speaker 3: Congo, But I guess that doesn't count.
Speaker 2: Then, the director of the CIA went on ABC news
Nightlife to discuss remote viewing and the AIR report and
stated that he never knew of a time when viewing
had significantly contributed to a policy decision or informed policymakers
about critical information. Edwin May, the former head of the
government's esp research program, said that was all a lie. Nevertheless,
the program was publicly ended, which is exactly what they wanted.
But the Stargate project was so much bigger than the
declassified CIA files tell us remote viewers were used in
so many operations and were delivering real results. The CIA
director just wanted the public to think that it was
all done, that whatever they were doing before didn't produce anything,
and officially it's closed. Right, Let's get into the real
results they were delivering before we get into if they're
still operating. Joseph McGonagall is one of the most famous
remote viewers. He was in the Army in Vietnam in
nineteen seventy He was injured in a helicopter accident and
when he recovered he said he had psychic abilities. That's
when he changes jobs in the Army and went to
work for the Stargate Project. He has said to be
Remote Viewer number zero zero one, stationed at Fort Meade, Maryland.
He worked in the RV program from nineteen seventy eight
to nineteen eighty four, when he retired from the Army,
and then continued to work as a consultant for the
Stargate Project until nineteen ninety three. He had a success
rate of twenty percent, which seems kind of low, but
when you're remote.
Speaker 3: Viewing, that feels pretty good.
Speaker 2: During his time, he says he viewed the past, present,
and future. He provided information on one hundred and fifty
targets not known from other sources. Even though he completed
way more missions than that. It said he completed like
four hundred and fifty missions, but one hundred and fifty
of them were not known from any other sources. He
reported seeing inside a secret Soviet manufacturing facility and most
famously correctly identified a Soviet submarine.
Speaker 3: No one else knew about.
Speaker 2: US intelligence knew of a facility in the Soviet Union
where they were building something really big, but they could
just they never could get close enough to find out
what it was, and they couldn't get somebody close enough
to find out, Like, they couldn't get like a picture
of it from flying overhead, and the facility wasn't near
the coast, so they didn't really think it was a ship. However,
Joe and another viewer both told them that it was
a submarine, like a really big submarine. He said that
it was thirty three feet shy of the length of
the Soviet aircraft carrier, and it looked like two submarines
that were cut in half and then welded together. He
specified that the submarine would be launched one hundred and
fourteen days from the time they were talking about the submarine,
and sure enough, overhead photos of the harbor were ordered
for that day that he specified, and they saw a
Typhoon class submarine in the harbor and it looks like
two submarines welded together.
Speaker 3: And it is huge.
Speaker 2: During events like the nineteen eighty Iranian hostage crisis, remote
viewers were critical. On November fourth, nineteen seventy nine, the
US embassy in Tehran was stormed and sixty six American
diplomats and citizens were taken hostage.
Speaker 3: Fifty two of.
Speaker 2: Them were held for four hundred and forty four days.
Joe was tasked with sketching locations where hostages were being held.
They would then take the sketches, check them against satellite imagery,
and make plans based on the information. Now, there were
some setbacks in the actual execution of the rescue, but
this shows how helpful remote viewing is and can be.
In another case, in nineteen eighty nine, if you were
successfully pinpointed where fugitive Charlie Jordan was in northern Wyoming.
Charlie was a DEA agent in South Florida who started
taking bribes from people that wanted to bring drugs in.
Speaker 3: When he was.
Speaker 2: Found out, he went on the run, ending up in Wyoming.
The viewer said he was in loll Wyoming l Owel,
and because there is no loll Wyoming, they kind of
like brushed off the tip. They're like, Nope, that was
not a successful hit. Well, there is a level Wyoming
l O v Ell, which is just one letter off,
and a couple weeks later he was picked up in
that town.
Speaker 4: Hi, this is Alex Kantchwitz. I'm the host of Big
Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on air contributor
to CNBC. And if you're like me, you're trying to
figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world
and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I
host key actors from the companies building AI tech and
outsiders trying to influence it, asking where this is all going,
places like Nvidio, Microsoft, Amazon. So if you want to
be smart with your wallet, your career choices, and at
dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast and your podcast
app of choice.
Speaker 2: And well, since they can use remote viewing with a
decent enough accuracy here on Earth, they kind of started
to wonder, like could we use remote viewing to visit
other planets. This takes us back to Joe.
Speaker 3: Joe claims he visited Mars.
Speaker 2: This happened in nineteen eighty four, right before he got
out of the army.
Speaker 3: He was in a room with a researcher. This is
kind of how they did it right.
Speaker 2: They had the researcher there to write down all the
notes that the viewer was talking about, and he was
given a sealed envelope and told not to open it.
But he was also given a set of coordinates and
asked to tell the researcher what he's saw. Here's the envelope,
here's the coordinates.
Speaker 3: Neither him nor the researcher knew what was in the envelope.
Speaker 2: They both knew the coordinates, but researcher doesn't really know
the coordinates right.
Speaker 3: Trying not to give anything away to Joe. So then
he started to remote you.
Speaker 2: And he started out by saying he was seeing pyramids
of sorts, that they were very high, and he said
he saw a perception of a shadow of people, but
they were very tall and thin, but it was only
a shadow as if.
Speaker 3: They were there, but they aren't there anymore. Kind of situation.
Speaker 2: So the researcher asked him if he could go back
in time to win they were there, to which he
was kind of having trouble. He said, it was like
static on the line. It was very fragmented, and he
was like trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together,
and the researcher was like, don't try to put the
puzzles together. Don't try to piece it together. Just give
me the raw data. So he said he kept seeing
these very large people. They were tall, they were thin,
they were wearing really strange clothes. He then asked in
the same session to explore other coordinates. He still doesn't
have any information, and he still hadn't opened the envelope.
So with the new coordinates and with the sealed envelope,
explain to us what you're seeing. He starts explaining an
obelist looking thing that looked like the Washington Monument, rounded
carved channels that looked like roadbeds, and pyramids that appeared
to be storm shelters. And in the pyramids there were
more tall, shadowy people that seemed to be hibernating. He says,
they seem to be an ancient people that are dying.
When he has done with the session, he opens the
envelope and it reads the planet Mars time of interest
approximately one million years BC, which makes me wonder, like
why that time period were they trying to verify.
Speaker 3: Something they already knew? Were they trying to test out
a theory like how long ago did.
Speaker 2: People live on Mars? Like why specifically then? And then
it makes me wonder did they have other viewers viewing
further back in time or viewing like sooner trying to
figure out what's going on in Mars? And I mean
in the program, the viewers were given very specific directions
like you do not talk to the other viewers about
what you're being asked to view. You just do your job,
and then once you leave this room, you're done, Like
we're not talking about it anymore. It was very classified,
so they would all go to lunch together or something.
They're not talking about what they're viewing. They're not saying like,
oh you view that, I viewed that too, they're not
comparing notes.
Speaker 3: So unless somebody comes forward to say, oh I also
viewed Mars, we don't know.
Speaker 2: And this wasn't the only time they task the one
with viewing off planet. In nineteen eighty six, a viewer
was tasked with observing Saturn's moon Titan right now. Titan
is the best place for potential colonies off Earth, even
like for us today. So this viewer reported a base
on the surface of Titan. Upon entering the base, she
discovered the operators of the base looked very human. She
saw two human males operating a control panel under the
supervision of an attractive female. What we don't know from
this viewing is the time period in which she was
viewing it. Could it actually be humans and a man
made base on Titan sometime in the future, Like did
we successfully get to Titan? Are there already humans living
on Titan that we don't know about? There's a lot
of questions there. Aliens have been encountered before as well,
like obviously these aliens.
Speaker 3: Or human like beings were discovered.
Speaker 2: But the same viewer who viewed Titan also reported on
a time she was directed to Mount Hayes and Alaska
and observed two entities working outside a structure. Inside the
structure was this human like technician working on a machine.
The technician noticed the viewer and invited her to examine
the machine he was working on. This was the first
time a remote viewer reported being seen. There were instances
of intel. The CIA was given by their viewers, but
didn't actually take Like before, we talked about the Charlie
Jordan case. On April twentieth, nineteen ninety five, the day
after the Oklahoma City bombing, Joe reported that the attack
wasn't executed by two people, but rather by five people,
three of whom were Arabic. He specifically pointed to Iraq
as the likely origin of these foreign Islamic terrorists. One
of the weirdest parts about this is that Joe reported
a man named Carl to be connected to the bombing.
Of course, neither Timothy mcveay nor Terry Nichols were named
or nicknamed Carl, and none of the Arabic suspects were
named Carl. But an on call doctor from a nearby
hospital who was the first person on the scene of
the bombing was named Carl Spingler, which I think gives
credibility to Joe's account of the Oklahoma City bombing. But
of course no one outside of Timothy McVay and Terry
Nichols were accused of this spombing. Now, Stargate is officially
shut down, but like mk Ultra, I don't believe they
ever stopped using it, and recently I had a civilian
remote viewer on the podcast that episode will actually drop
after this one, and she described remote viewing into secret
military bases that people know about, like Area fifty one
in Antarctica, and encountering government remote viewers.
Speaker 3: These viewers were.
Speaker 2: Specifically there to keep out other remote viewers, be that
like civilian or foreign military remote viewers. I asked her
what branch of the military they were in, and she
didn't know. She didn't know like the different branches. But
I don't think they're in a branch of the military.
I think they're CIA Ordia. She said that she has
found a way around being caught that like basically she
cloaks herself and then they can't see her. But they
are definitely still utilizing remote viewers, and if they're still
using them as defense, they're probably still using them as
offense as well, especially because they've gone to such great
lengths to shut it down publicly and now cover it up.
Because when you type in project Stargate in the search engine,
the CIA operation is not the first thing that pops up.
Stargate LLC and AI joint venture is the top search result,
and in fact, every search result on the first page
when you type in project Stargate is about the AI
venture and not about the remote viewing Stargate. And I
also believe that could be the reason for all the
name changes.
Speaker 3: If they change the name of.
Speaker 2: The operation every couple of years, it's harder to follow
the trail. So you have all these different things trying
to cover up the Stargate project. Makes me wonder if
they're still using remote viewers they just shut it down,
or they changed the name again and they made it
more secret, or another option is that they could have
combined a couple different experimental projects into one product. There
were other tests for ESP that they were doing prior
to any of this remote viewing testing that they were doing,
and I'm going to do an episode on that. I
think it might be a bonus episode as well, just
because I don't think it'll be a lot of information.
But they're doing other ESP testing way back in nineteen
fifty nine, and so if they continued on with that
ESP testing in a different project, then they had this
remote viewing testing in this project. They could have easily
combined those into one parapsychological military effort. And that''s not
the first time we've heard of that I know that
the Navy was actually doing research into what creates that
sixth sense in certain people, or that gut feeling that
people have. There's been so much interest into these abilities
that I don't believe they've shut these projects down.
Speaker 3: And I'd love to know what you believe.
Speaker 2: But until next week, my friends, stay skeptical, and I
will see you all then.
Speaker 3: Hey, friends.
Speaker 2: The rabbit Hole is an independent pod podcast, written, hosted,
and produced by me Danny Mercy. Special thanks to Lindsey
for research and writing. If you love the podcast, please
leave us a five star rating and review wherever you're listening.
Follow us on social media at rabbit dot Hole podcast,
and visit our website at Stayskeptical dot com for everything else,