Speaker 1: Jen and I weather tot these guys today high twenty
Speaker 1: one overnight snow moves in winter weather advisory from my
Speaker 1: friends around northern Kentucky.
Speaker 2: Whatever that means fifteen for the low twenty two to
Speaker 2: the high.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow is early snow possible, so watch for the slick
Speaker 1: spots on your commute. Overcast Wednesday night snow will taper off.
Speaker 1: Ohio River going over flood stage of predicting a low
Speaker 1: of twelve degrees and a high twenty three on Thursday
Speaker 1: with Hartley cloudy skies fifteen. Right now, let's get an
Speaker 1: update on traffic from the.
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Speaker 1: Seven thirty right now, if you have kersite talk station.
Speaker 1: It is a very happy Tuesday. We got the inside
Speaker 1: scoop with Bright Bart News coming up at eight oh
Speaker 1: five with aw Or Hawkins, the Second Amendment expert Dania
Speaker 1: Davis Deep Dive one hour from now on the efforts
Speaker 1: on Trump administration to solve the war between Russian and Ukraine.
Speaker 1: And right now from the law firm of Porter Wright,
Speaker 1: excellent lawyers. They are our legal expert and consultants. Steve
Speaker 1: Good and welcome back to the Morning Show, my friend.
Speaker 1: It's always a real pleasure having you on the show.
Speaker 4: Good morning, sir.
Speaker 2: So you have your Charter Committee hat on.
Speaker 4: That's right. We're talking about some bad laws that the
Speaker 4: city has passed recently here and I've been very honored
Speaker 4: to serve as the chairman and convener of our one
Speaker 4: hundred year old Charter Party, the third party here in Cincinnati,
Speaker 4: and we've got some real issues with a major zoning
Speaker 4: reform that the city just passed. I put reform in
Speaker 4: quotation marks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw your at least I cognitively felt your quote
Speaker 1: sign with your fingers when you said that. Now, this
Speaker 1: so called reform, the connected communities zoning legislation remind my
Speaker 1: listeners before we start talking about why the Charter Committee
Speaker 1: wants to repeal it, but remind my listeners what connected
Speaker 1: communities is.
Speaker 4: Well, it's it is a kind of progressive fever dream
Speaker 4: of zoning reform that will is really kind of a
Speaker 4: war on single family homeowners. We've been calling it disconnected communities.
Speaker 4: I know that's an easy kind of joke to make,
Speaker 4: but you know you'll win. You win basketball games with
Speaker 4: layups and we'll make the joke. So disconnected communities is
Speaker 4: this sort of concept that the city came up with
Speaker 4: that we need more density, which I think everyone agrees with.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that we need more taxpayers, we
Speaker 4: need more people living in the city. It's how you
Speaker 4: go about it that is the problem. So we have
Speaker 4: these new rabbid transit bus lines that will be coming
Speaker 4: on through much of the city in the coming year,
Speaker 4: running all the major corridors, such as up through Clifton Avenue,
Speaker 4: Hamilton Avenue at the Reading Road corridor, through almost the
Speaker 4: entire city, most of the West side, and the idea
Speaker 4: here is that there will be basically no zoning requirements
Speaker 4: at all within four blocks of either side of these
Speaker 4: gigantic bus lines. Which will encompass most of the city.
Speaker 4: No height requirements, no parking requirements, no garages, no anything.
Speaker 4: And the idea is to encourage multifamily kind of middle housing,
Speaker 4: lower end multi family construction. So the practical effect of
Speaker 4: this will be out of town developers, private equity developers
Speaker 4: which are coming into the area in droves anyway, buying
Speaker 4: up single family houses, knocking them down for profit, and
Speaker 4: then putting in twelve to fourteen unit in apartment complexes
Speaker 4: right in these single family areas. So it would, in theory,
Speaker 4: I guess, increase density. The idea is you want these
Speaker 4: folks to live in the apartments along these bus lines.
Speaker 4: It's supposed to encourage people to ride the bus and
Speaker 4: so forth. But it totally disrespects existing homeowners, It disrespects
Speaker 4: the historic character in the neighborhoods. There are no requirements
Speaker 4: whatsoever that these new apartment complexes even fit in with
Speaker 4: the neighborhoods. And what we're already seeing in a handful
Speaker 4: of neighborhoods like along of College Hill area, we're seeing
Speaker 4: we're seeing a kind of pre connected communities. Version of
Speaker 4: this happened in Hyde Park Square, where the neighbors are
Speaker 4: looking at this and saying, you know, we moved here
Speaker 4: and bought these houses, an invested a significant amount of
Speaker 4: our resources and savings into our homes. We're raising our
Speaker 4: families here, and now you're building these modern things with
Speaker 4: no parking, adding to congestion and totally changing the way
Speaker 4: our neighborhood works and looks, and we don't want it.
Speaker 4: And you know this is one of these. It was
Speaker 4: passed over the objection of almost every community council in
Speaker 4: the city. It kind of unites people from Avondale to
Speaker 4: North Avondale, to Price Hill to Clift into Hyde Park, Democrat, Republican,
Speaker 4: the in between. We're saying we don't want this. The
Speaker 4: city council passed it over everyone's objection, and we think
Speaker 4: it's going to be the hottest political issue this fall,
Speaker 4: going into the races. It's a uniquely local issue, it's
Speaker 4: a local screw up. It's something that cuts across all
Speaker 4: party lines, and it's a great classic Charter third party
Speaker 4: issue for us because it goes to transparency, consent of
Speaker 4: the government, and really it's the idea of zoning is
Speaker 4: not a particularly sexy issue, but let me tell you,
Speaker 4: it is motivating people across the city right now.
Speaker 1: It is horrible news. If you're a homeowner, Well, I
Speaker 1: have several questions for you. We're coming up against the
Speaker 1: break here, so I'm a pause and I will bring
Speaker 1: you back to ask those questions and talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this and whether or not there might
Speaker 1: be Oh, I don't know, legal challenges to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Seven thirty five right now more with Steve Gooden. First
Speaker 1: word for and no, it won't get rid of the
Speaker 1: stench of politics brought about by that Connected Communities program,
Speaker 1: but it will get rid of the owners that you're
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Speaker 1: food oders, whatever.
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Speaker 4: This is fifty five kr an iHeartRadio station, Steve Perrin's coordinated.
Speaker 1: Fine Jenn Andi went the poecast cloudy skuys to day
Speaker 1: with the high twenty one oh Nagle with fifteen with
Speaker 1: the snow coming in late night early snow tomorrow morning,
Speaker 1: so please watch out for slick spots on the Connue
Speaker 1: twenty two for the high tomorrow down to twelve. Overnight
Speaker 1: snow will taper off the Ohio River met well go
Speaker 1: beyond the flood stage right now the predicted fifty three
Speaker 1: point four feet. Thursday's going to be a partly cloudy
Speaker 1: day with a high of twenty three. It's fifteen right
Speaker 1: now and it is traffic time. From the UCL Traffic Center.
Speaker 1: You see health.
Speaker 3: You'll find comprehensive care that's so personal it makes your
Speaker 3: best tomorrow possible. That's boundless care for better outcomes. Expect
Speaker 3: more at u se health dot com. Southbound seventy five
Speaker 3: break lights through Wachland northbound seventy five slow go from
Speaker 3: before buttermilk into the cut. There's a wreck on by
Speaker 3: Pass four at Hamilton, Middletown and kell Agg is underwater
Speaker 3: near Sutton thanks to the rising river. Chuck Ingram on
Speaker 3: fifty five k DE talk station.
Speaker 1: Fifty fout carc DE talk Station, A very happy Tuesday
Speaker 1: to you. Love talking with Steve Gooden about matters legal
Speaker 1: and of course in this particular case, UH, the City
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati ramming this connected community zoning legislation down the
Speaker 1: throats of every community in the City of Cincinnati for
Speaker 1: denser housing, no parking, but on a bus line.
Speaker 2: And that's the first question, Steve.
Speaker 1: You predicated this whole rezoning of all the communities on
Speaker 1: the idea it's going to have this particular bus route
Speaker 1: going through it. So the folks in these dense housing
Speaker 1: projects will have ability to take that bus because it
Speaker 1: is on the bus route. Now is that to suggest,
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know if down the road they expand
Speaker 1: these bus routes, would that then expand the connected communities program?
Speaker 4: Well, absolutely, it could happen that way. And I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, the bus lines are are being expanded, you know,
Speaker 4: as they are. I mean the current plan is to
Speaker 4: add these sort of rapid transit buses, these bigger buses,
Speaker 4: the so called articulated ones that are kind of double
Speaker 4: buses and have the sort of rubberized thing in the middle.
Speaker 4: So I mean they're already expanding, and that's part of
Speaker 4: the idea here. But I think that's also one of
Speaker 4: the great failings of this concept, which it just assumes
Speaker 4: that people who are going to move into these houses
Speaker 4: are going to ride the bus forever. I mean, we
Speaker 4: know from other cities that have tried similar schemes out
Speaker 4: of the Northwest that people you know, are aspirational. They
Speaker 4: want they want cars. I mean, cars are access so
Speaker 4: much more economic opportunity for people. They allow you to
Speaker 4: look at different kinds of jobs, and people aren't going
Speaker 4: to stop wanting cars. So even if you're in a
Speaker 4: part of your life where you're going to want to
Speaker 4: live in one of these again market rate but lower
Speaker 4: end sort of houses or apartment buildings and live near
Speaker 4: a bus line and riding the bus. You might you're
Speaker 4: going to want to car. Someday you're going to want
Speaker 4: to go into that. It kind of takes away that
Speaker 4: the whole economic mode of people have of.
Speaker 1: Working well, now does market forces are going to work?
Speaker 1: Steve good and and you know, at least up until
Speaker 1: very very recently, the price of real estate has been
Speaker 1: going through the roof for a variety of reasons. But
Speaker 1: Hyde Park, let's use that as an illustration, because they're
Speaker 1: kind of waging a nimby sort of challenge of this
Speaker 1: coming to Hyde Park is allegedly tear down some historic
Speaker 1: homes in order to build these dense housing. But if
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to live in hyde Park Square,
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessary. That doesn't mean that the place that
Speaker 1: they're building isn't going to be really comparatively outrageously expensive.
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. I mean, it's a market intervention that
Speaker 4: is just not well thought out. And look, I mean
Speaker 4: the big pushback that we're getting, you know, from city Hall,
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, this isn't mbyism. I've been told it's classism, racism,
Speaker 4: even though you know, so there's this assumption, I guess
Speaker 4: that people of color will be buying these I think
Speaker 4: that's a false assumption. Our coalition that are opposed, that
Speaker 4: is opposing this thing is very diverse neighbor because all
Speaker 4: over the city people weighing in from you know, a black,
Speaker 4: white otherwise. And if you're a black person for instance,
Speaker 4: who has actually you know, done what everyone's been telling
Speaker 4: you for generations to build generational wealth and actually invest
Speaker 4: in a home and save up the money and get
Speaker 4: a down payment and buy a house. This is particularly
Speaker 4: bad news because you know, you you now are having
Speaker 4: these things that are going to affect your property values,
Speaker 4: these apartment buildings built right next to you in your
Speaker 4: single family area. But you you're absolutely right, there's no
Speaker 4: guarantee that they won't be priced up like crazy. And
Speaker 4: some of these kind of higher end neighborhoods, I mean,
Speaker 4: there is a is an attempted market intervention that is
Speaker 4: just going to empower lower end development that may not
Speaker 4: end up staying low end. Uh, we don't know. And
Speaker 4: it just assumes that nobody will ever aspire to anything
Speaker 4: different or better, that they'll be happy to come into
Speaker 4: these small apartment complexes with cars, ride the bus forever.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's not how human being exact, not in
Speaker 4: a capitalistic society such as ours.
Speaker 1: Well, And I mean, I obviously agree with that point.
Speaker 1: If you own a home and they're going to build
Speaker 1: a multi unit facility right next to it, your property
Speaker 1: is going to deteriorate in value, especially if it doesn't
Speaker 1: have any parking there. So there's that component. But this
Speaker 1: whole idea, if you build it, they will come, is
Speaker 1: that even a safe assumption. I mean, are you going
Speaker 1: to move into the city of Cincinnati, for example, you
Speaker 1: are going to be paying a high a tax. That's
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the reasons people move out
Speaker 1: of the city of Cincinnati. You got that city tax,
Speaker 1: which funds a general fund, and you don't have to
Speaker 1: pay that if you live in other communities sometimes.
Speaker 2: I so.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think that it's necessarily going to be a
Speaker 1: draw for the city of Cincinnati just because there's more
Speaker 1: available housing. And then the second point on that is,
Speaker 1: how much are they really thinking is going to be built?
Speaker 1: How much additional population will they be bringing. How many
Speaker 1: units do they think are actually going to be completed.
Speaker 4: Well, they don't know. And I'll tell you the one
Speaker 4: thing that they do know, and that does bother that
Speaker 4: bothers us at Charter and bothers me particularly, is that
Speaker 4: we do know that this area, because it is there
Speaker 4: is sort of there is a legit housing crunch. I
Speaker 4: think in the city Cincinnati that's real in part from
Speaker 4: the reasons you've mentioned. You know, their downtown's doing great,
Speaker 4: over the Rhinees doing great. The rest of our neighborhoods,
Speaker 4: you know, are struggling on the services aspect. So it's
Speaker 4: high tax as poor services. I'm sitting here looking at
Speaker 4: snow out my window here at nan Clifton right now.
Speaker 4: And the slowly moving traffic. I mean, these are all
Speaker 4: the traditional reasons that it's hard to bring people into
Speaker 4: the city sometimes. But all that being said that we
Speaker 4: do know that this is a hot market for private equity.
Speaker 4: Out of town folks looking to do multifamilies and this
Speaker 4: truly empowers them. And we know that out of town
Speaker 4: landlords tend to be bad landlords. They tend not to
Speaker 4: take care of their property and that's exactly what we're
Speaker 4: concerned about, is a bunch of private equity folks coming
Speaker 4: in buying up some single family housing heavily into this market.
Speaker 4: They don't perform, they pull out, and then we have
Speaker 4: co enforcement issues empty properties. Or the flip side is
Speaker 4: you're going to have people rushing into certain neighborhoods where
Speaker 4: they're built thinking they're getting a bargain and really ending
Speaker 4: up with a kind of lousy product and not being
Speaker 4: happy with it, or they bid up. I mean, either way,
Speaker 4: it's a market intervention that is extremely ill conceived. No
Speaker 4: one knows what's going to happen other than what we've
Speaker 4: seen in other cities, which is private equity coming in
Speaker 4: on the cheap and picking up properties this way. We
Speaker 4: have so many other ways we can improve density, including
Speaker 4: doing what Columbus has done, which is leverage its public
Speaker 4: utilities to annex nearby communities. We could do. We could
Speaker 4: also address the many the thousands of vacant homes that
Speaker 4: are still hanging around at different parts of the city
Speaker 4: thanks to the housing bubble from two thousand and eight
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine. We could actually go after those
Speaker 4: out of town banks that own those properties. And try
Speaker 4: to return those to productivities. There are so many other
Speaker 4: things we could do rather than screw around with our
Speaker 4: main historic neighborhoods. The great thing about the cities we
Speaker 4: have these historic neighborhoods at Hyde Park, Clifton Price Ll
Speaker 4: East Price Hill. They have a distinct character and that's
Speaker 4: what drives people there, and messing with that seems like
Speaker 4: the last thing you'd want to do well.
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, let's just face it, Steve, it
Speaker 1: seems to me if they paid closer attention to maintaining
Speaker 1: the roads and infrastructure, the communities might be more desirable
Speaker 1: for folks to want to invest in. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many roads in the city that are just
Speaker 1: it's like from Goz I mentioned all the time in
Speaker 1: the context, like Sunset my favorite road to pick on.
Speaker 1: But that's been a mess for years and years and years.
Speaker 1: But if you improve, it's like fixing the broken windows.
Speaker 1: Crime goes down in neighborhoods that look like they're being
Speaker 1: cared for, and there are many neighborhoods that have been
Speaker 1: completely overlooked and neglected for years.
Speaker 4: That's absolutely right. I mean, look, we've got there's a
Speaker 4: basic services problem. There's a crime component problem here, you know,
Speaker 4: and there's also an economic all the problem. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, the city really has got has got to
Speaker 4: get if they want to grow, they've got to get
Speaker 4: back into the business. I'm trying to lure jobs here,
Speaker 4: manufacturing jobs. There's still plenty of commercial land to develop
Speaker 4: within the City of Cincinnati. And rather than putting the
Speaker 4: energy here into like screwing around with these kind of
Speaker 4: you know, attempt at interventions in the housing market, really
Speaker 4: to encourage public transit. All the millions of dollars and
Speaker 4: thousands of dollars of staff time that have been spent
Speaker 4: like screwing around with this scheme, I got if that
Speaker 4: had been put into some sort of economic, real economic
Speaker 4: development activity to try to develop some of the areas,
Speaker 4: particularly along the Paddock Road corridor in the city, and
Speaker 4: actually get some jobs for people, entry level jobs, and
Speaker 4: to try to bring some manufacturing back in the city,
Speaker 4: then we'd have something. I mean, then you'd have some density. Uh.
Speaker 4: But that doesn't seem to be where anybody's attention as well.
Speaker 4: It's it's it's overthought. It's this bad policy, and the
Speaker 4: neighborhoods just don't want it. It's a total failure of
Speaker 4: civic engagement. People saying across the city, please don't do this,
Speaker 4: and they did it anyway. It became sort of like
Speaker 4: a progressive litmus test at city hall.
Speaker 1: Well, since you're an excellent litigation attorney Porterwright dot com, say,
Speaker 1: read Steve, any potential for litigation to try to stop this.
Speaker 4: You know at this point likely not. I mean we've
Speaker 4: looked at that, frankly. I mean, there are folks who
Speaker 4: were looking at an initiative, a petition drive to put
Speaker 4: it on the ballot this fall, and I don't know
Speaker 4: that that's going to happen. There is there are some
Speaker 4: thoughts that people, you know, particularly once this begins in earnest,
Speaker 4: that it could trigger a property rights bace challenge. Say
Speaker 4: basically like, hey, look, I owned my house, particularly I
Speaker 4: own my house outright, and you guys are affecting the
Speaker 4: value here of it. But it's really really hard to
Speaker 4: sue cities from property loss. I mean, you have to
Speaker 4: show kind of bad faith and arbitrary capricious acts. So
Speaker 4: it's a difficult thing to do. But we think, what
Speaker 4: really what the practical effect of this is. It's going
Speaker 4: to be a very very hot political issue, this wall,
Speaker 4: and I think you're going to see quite a few
Speaker 4: candidates coming out trying to repeal it. What's interesting to
Speaker 4: me is that the city, or at least some of
Speaker 4: the council members, have held a town hall over the
Speaker 4: weekend and they're turned to they know they've got a problem.
Speaker 4: The sponsor of this, you know, Reggie Harris left his
Speaker 4: council seat and went to d C ironically to work
Speaker 4: on housing policy and the Biden administration, so you know
Speaker 4: he's no longer going to have to face the political
Speaker 4: consequences of this. And we know some of the other
Speaker 4: council members are trying to amend the thing that you know,
Speaker 4: our group is basically saying, look, it's got to be
Speaker 4: repealed outright, we need to start all over. We needed
Speaker 4: a totally different discussion and a more realistic discussion about
Speaker 4: what we need to do to grow the city, rather
Speaker 4: than this sort of scheme to kind of infill it
Speaker 4: with the lower end department of buildings with no parking.
Speaker 4: That's something just the neighborhoods do not want.
Speaker 1: Steve Gooden, I cannot thank you enough for explaining this
Speaker 1: in great detail and easily understandable words for my listening
Speaker 1: on It's in me. You're good man, Steve, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate the time that you offer to my listeners in
Speaker 1: the morning show. We'll have you on again real soon.
Speaker 4: You are much too kind, Brian, thank you for paying
Speaker 4: attention to this issue.
Speaker 1: Oh, I appreciate your efforts on behalf of all the
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