Speaker 1: If you have KRCD talk station. A very very happy Wednesday,
Speaker 1: made extra special because Todd Zenser is back in studio.
Speaker 1: Former Inspector General of the US Department of Commerce. He
Speaker 1: has an amazing background crunching numbers and finding out facts,
Speaker 1: and he's still at it in his free time. In
Speaker 1: his spare time, he follows things political as well as well.
Speaker 1: I suppose from a financial bottom line standpoint. We were
Speaker 1: just joking around and we're going to talk about the
Speaker 1: Brent Spence Bridge project, and I just I just kind
Speaker 1: of looked at him and I said, do you think
Speaker 1: this project will ever get off the ground? And he
Speaker 1: just chuckled. He said, yeah, eventually. Welcome back, Todd Zenzer.
Speaker 1: The problem seems to be is that we do have
Speaker 1: a necessary project, which is replacing the Brent Spence Bridge.
Speaker 1: It's over capacity, it's falling apart, it's it's way way
Speaker 1: more traffic on it than it was ever built to handle.
Speaker 1: So fine, we can at least all Republican Democrat independent
Speaker 1: communists agree that, you know, we need a Bran Spence Bridge,
Speaker 1: and maybe a few people out there going no, we don't.
Speaker 1: But this has turned into one of those well if
Speaker 1: you're going to build a bridge then, and everybody and
Speaker 1: his brother wants to get their hand in the cookie
Speaker 1: jar and start changing it and adding it and putting
Speaker 1: the adding on this and that and so the latest
Speaker 1: and let's just start with the bridge. Roundabouts roundabouts and
Speaker 1: then they don't look like roundabouts in the traditional roundabout sense.
Speaker 1: They had a caller earlier. They didn't like them, and
Speaker 1: I think primarily the normal roundabout, Like we joke when
Speaker 1: we think you're European vacation with Chevy Chase, you pull
Speaker 1: up to it and when you have a space, you
Speaker 1: pull onto the roundabout. You continue to move until you
Speaker 1: get to the street you want to go on and
Speaker 1: pull off. It's a circle. He it's the name round about.
Speaker 1: The plans that I saw reported by at least over
Speaker 1: a CPO. These don't look like that. They just look
Speaker 1: like streets.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a little hard to figure out. But morning Brian.
Speaker 2: By the way, it's a little difficult to figure out
Speaker 2: exactly what they have in mind because the headline in
Speaker 2: the Enquirer article talked about twenty roundabouts. Yeah, and there aren't.
Speaker 2: There probably aren't ten roundabouts in the whole metropolitan area
Speaker 2: at this point. I go through one most mornings over
Speaker 2: in Newport across the south Gate Bridge because four seventy
Speaker 2: one is closed, so an alternate as a south Gate
Speaker 2: bridge when you go over there by the aquarium. I
Speaker 2: know you're talking about it around about absolutely, it's very simple.
Speaker 1: They are once you get used to them, they're simple.
Speaker 1: I mean, some people struggle with the concept, and you know,
Speaker 1: some people will just merge right on in rather than
Speaker 1: waiting for the opportunity. But once we all sort that
Speaker 1: out to get used to it, I think most people
Speaker 1: like me will find them to be a far better
Speaker 1: thing than sitting at a red light, idling and waiting
Speaker 1: for the damn thing to turn green, because that doesn't
Speaker 1: help anybody.
Speaker 2: What your caller earlier today is kind of a representative
Speaker 2: of what people think about roundabouts. They don't like them.
Speaker 2: They're they're not used to them. They don't really understand
Speaker 2: how to maneuver through them. Uh so you know that's.
Speaker 1: A valid that's a valid curve.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the other thing about roundabouts that hasn't been
Speaker 2: talked about is they're not really pedestrian or bicycle friendly.
Speaker 2: Oh oh, all right, which seems contradictory to the latest
Speaker 2: push to walkable cities and things like that.
Speaker 1: It's so funny you brought that up, because that kind
Speaker 1: of thing never enters my mind. One, I don't ride
Speaker 1: a bike, and wherever I kind of round about, there's
Speaker 1: no way I would ever be on foot to be
Speaker 1: in a place where the roundabout is. It's just that's off,
Speaker 1: that's been off my radar. But that's actually funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, it's something they have to consider. Plus,
Speaker 2: roundabouts take up a lot of land.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they do that.
Speaker 2: Yes, and if if they've got I think the number
Speaker 2: I saw for this Queensgate concept is twenty five acres
Speaker 2: that they've reclaimed or something like that. You put twenty
Speaker 2: roundabouts in twenty five acres, you're not going to have
Speaker 2: much much else left. So I thought, I don't think
Speaker 2: we're looking at twelve. I think you're probably maybe looking
Speaker 2: at the four corners or something like that to get
Speaker 2: into the queens Gate area.
Speaker 1: Well, I will say that in certain places, under certain
Speaker 1: traffic conditions, I think they are a good idea, But
Speaker 1: a roundabout for the sake of putting it around about
Speaker 1: is a stupid idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know whether they've thought all that through.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they must have no.
Speaker 1: And I joked about this morning too because I saw
Speaker 1: city council examining New Brunsman's Bridge approach using roundabouts, and
Speaker 1: I was struggling with the idea of our city council
Speaker 1: all the way up to the mayor having any concept
Speaker 1: about planning. And I know they have people hired out
Speaker 1: to do planning, but therein lies the challenge because those
Speaker 1: people they hire out to do these and consider these
Speaker 1: projects are the type of people that bring up other
Speaker 1: ideas and additions that raise the price and the cost
Speaker 1: of these things to astronomical numbers. And they already start
Speaker 1: with astronomical numbers.
Speaker 2: That's right. So right now it looks like there's excuse me,
Speaker 2: one point six billion federal dollars that are committed to
Speaker 2: the project. But the project right now is estimated to
Speaker 2: cost three points six billions. So that's another two billion
Speaker 2: dollars on top of what the bridge money from the
Speaker 2: federal government totals.
Speaker 1: Well, the bridge, if we just focus excuse me, if
Speaker 1: we just focus on the bridge, the necessary component, and
Speaker 1: ignore roundabouts and extensions over and whatever, is that the
Speaker 1: three is that where that three billion dollar figure comes from.
Speaker 2: It comes from the whole footprint. They've got the bridge
Speaker 2: and then there's maybe three four or five miles on
Speaker 2: the Kentucky side and three miles on the Cincinnati side.
Speaker 2: We'll go up to Western Hills Vidoc. Yeah, and then
Speaker 2: they'll go up to Fort Fort Mitchell and so there's
Speaker 2: various access entrances and excess and all the rest of that.
Speaker 2: So the issue with Queensgate looks to be the connections
Speaker 2: to seventy five. Once that work is completed, how is
Speaker 2: it going to connect? What are the connections going to
Speaker 2: be in Ohio DOT which is controlling the Ohio side issue,
Speaker 2: they came up with access to Queen's Gate. It's called it. Well,
Speaker 2: actually this this Brian Bowling came up with this idea
Speaker 2: of this grid over seventy five into Queensgate, and ODOT
Speaker 2: cooperated and came up with a design. And Brian didn't
Speaker 2: like that design, and I guess city council didn't like
Speaker 2: that design.
Speaker 1: Either way, you'll make Brian thing, I'm sorry who made this?
Speaker 1: This This Brian guy pope of the whole I think.
Speaker 2: He made himself a pope. I mean, he came up
Speaker 2: with these proposals.
Speaker 1: Oh who is he? He is a.
Speaker 2: He's a local activist at this point, but he's he
Speaker 2: started a group called Bridge Forward.
Speaker 1: Oh, he was on my program, was at earlier this year.
Speaker 2: Last year or something.
Speaker 1: And he's the one that wanted to cover all of
Speaker 1: it with this, with the surface covering, so you could
Speaker 1: sort of build on top of and above the roads
Speaker 1: below right, which you know, I don't know where the
Speaker 1: nine bajillion dollars would come to be able to afford
Speaker 1: to pay. That looks good on paper, nice theoretical concept,
Speaker 1: but we are pretty much broke as a city.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the that's the missing That's the missing piece,
Speaker 2: Brian is how much is all that going to cost?
Speaker 2: And I think that's what resulted in him pairing down
Speaker 2: all of these proposals to where now the differences between
Speaker 2: one way streets going in and out of Queen's Gate
Speaker 2: to two way streets going in and out of Queen's
Speaker 2: Gate plus plus the roundabouts. That's I think that's where
Speaker 2: the conversation is right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's possible we have a number of topics
Speaker 1: or whoever with Todd, we clearly have not left this
Speaker 1: concert or this talk yet, So we'll talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about the brun spens Bridge project. Todd Zinzer
Speaker 1: in studio if we got it for an hour until
Speaker 1: we get the judge in the poltono and you're going
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Speaker 1: morning weather forecast. Give me cloudy day to day. The
Speaker 1: rain's supposed to stop around eleven. To the extent you're
Speaker 1: getting any it'll remain cloudy the forty three for the high.
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Speaker 1: Seven fifty five KC Detalk Station, A very happy Wednesday.
Speaker 1: I th you're talking with Todd Zenzer, a brilliant man.
Speaker 1: He is in so many matters. But we're talking about
Speaker 1: the Renspns Bridge, and we were talking about the origins
Speaker 1: of this this project. Okay, we all agree the Brent
Speaker 1: Spnce prizies we replaced. Now they're trying to add on
Speaker 1: and part of the additions involve additional road work to
Speaker 1: connect the west and with I guess the rest of
Speaker 1: the city. And there are a lot of activists behind this.
Speaker 1: You know, they say it was racism to build the
Speaker 1: expressway in the first place, because it destroyed you know,
Speaker 1: quote unquote affordable housing for many a lot of black
Speaker 1: people live there. I mean, we all have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: our history here. And even if it was that act
Speaker 1: of racism that destroyed that neighborhood, they needed to build
Speaker 1: the damn expressway. I don't know where else I seventy
Speaker 1: five would go if it isn't where it is now,
Speaker 1: because you had the railroads right there, and of course
Speaker 1: you couldn't move it over to the east because that's
Speaker 1: where the city is literally sitting. You knock down the
Speaker 1: crew tower back then, and so you can put ICE
Speaker 1: seventy five right through it. So that wasn't even within
Speaker 1: the realm of feasibility. But if you're going to redress
Speaker 1: that wrong, if we want to call it that by
Speaker 1: rebuilding this neighborhood, FC Cincinnati clearly had that in mind.
Speaker 1: Why else would they choose that neighborhood. You know, look,
Speaker 1: we got plenty of opportunity here. We build this, We're
Speaker 1: gonna have bars, we're gonna have restaurants, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: bring in housing. This sounds remarkably like what happened in
Speaker 1: Over the Rhine Now, I remember the early eighties when
Speaker 1: I worked in Over the Rhine. It has transformed dramatically,
Speaker 1: but also at the expense of getting rid of affordable housing.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's expensive for young urban hipsters to rent
Speaker 1: a condo by a condo or rent properties there, and
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that angered many of the residents.
Speaker 1: Regentrification comes at a high cost, and it ends up
Speaker 1: moving out people who used to call that an affordable neighborhood.
Speaker 1: So isn't that exactly what's going to happen here if
Speaker 1: we move forward with this. I'm not trying to negate
Speaker 1: the positives from the development. I'm not trying to say
Speaker 1: we need to choke off or keep that west end
Speaker 1: closed off and unusable. But it comes with the same
Speaker 1: sort of set of issues that Over the Rhine came
Speaker 1: with and comes with and will exist now. And haven't
Speaker 1: there been local activists who've been making the point that
Speaker 1: I'm making right now about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the idea of taking neighborhoods and gentrifying them results
Speaker 2: in the residents being displaced placed. And if you go
Speaker 2: back to connective communities, you have three members of city
Speaker 2: council who voted against it, and that was their main
Speaker 2: concern is that the rezoning is going to displace people,
Speaker 2: It's going to bring in developers, who's going to put
Speaker 2: who are going to build housing that really aren't affordable,
Speaker 2: or people are going to be displaced, and the same
Speaker 2: thing goes. I mean, that is one of the biggest
Speaker 2: issues in the City of Cincinnati is how do we
Speaker 2: develop the city and take care that we don't displace
Speaker 2: people well.
Speaker 1: And add on to that, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: devolve too much, but I know the city has a
Speaker 1: lot of mandates and edicts with regard to how home
Speaker 1: are constructed. You know, you can or cannot have a
Speaker 1: parking space, or it must be built to certain energy
Speaker 1: efficiency standards. That kind of thing really significantly jacks the
Speaker 1: price up of any construction project.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it does. And the idea that the city
Speaker 2: is struggling with this housing issue, I mean, I guess
Speaker 2: all cities do that, but the latest, for example, is
Speaker 2: a proposal from Mark Jeffries. He wants the city to
Speaker 2: use lots that it owns, vacant lots that it owns,
Speaker 2: and experiment with new modular homes for low income or
Speaker 2: affordable housing, like shipping container size homes. I don't know
Speaker 2: how big they are. All it said in the description
Speaker 2: was a modular which means you just come in and
Speaker 2: snap them together. But yeah, it's a struggle. It's a
Speaker 2: constant struggle about how to provide affordable housing to people
Speaker 2: and grow the city at the same time.
Speaker 1: Well, as we stare over the landscape, I saw an
Speaker 1: article globally speaking, housing is expensive. This isn't just the
Speaker 1: United States problem. It's just in a downtown. Since any problem,
Speaker 1: the cost of real estate has gone through the roof.
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons why I
Speaker 1: guess there's this push for these fifteen minute cities. They
Speaker 1: want everybody to live in a tiny micro space or
Speaker 1: mini house and take their bike to work or ride
Speaker 1: the public transportation system, which is another topic where I
Speaker 1: have to get to. It's the streetcar, because it's see
Speaker 1: the streetcar extension mentioned in connection with the reconfiguration of
Speaker 1: the brans Ben's Bridge project. Well, very high level, difficult
Speaker 1: to solve problems that Todd and I are working on
Speaker 1: this morning. Maybe we'll solve them before the judgement of
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Speaker 1: Seven fifteen, think about KRCD talk station Brian Thomas with
Speaker 1: Todd Zinzer and studio talking complex issues, trying to put
Speaker 1: pen to paper and figure out what this brent S
Speaker 1: Benz Project's going to be like. And the more everybody
Speaker 1: in electric capacity talks about it, the more things get
Speaker 1: suggested added or opportunities to do some additional development. I
Speaker 1: learned a new concept over the break, and we're going
Speaker 1: to talk right now, real quickly about sacrificial slabs. I
Speaker 1: was thinking immediately sacrificial lambs, No sacrificial slab, Todd, you
Speaker 1: want to let my listeners know exactly what this is
Speaker 1: all about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the article in the Enquirer about all this
Speaker 2: talked about sacrificial slabs so that the infrastructure be able
Speaker 2: to accommodate a streetcar expansion. And I don't think they
Speaker 2: really mean sacrificial slabs. Sacrificial slabs are like roadways that
Speaker 2: are paved in a certain way that when you need
Speaker 2: to repave them, it's easier, So the slab that's down
Speaker 2: there can be easily taken up and resurfaced. Oh that's
Speaker 2: my understanding of sacrificial slabs. I think what they're talking
Speaker 2: about is something called future proofing or intermodal design, where
Speaker 2: they take a piece of infrastructure and they design it
Speaker 2: for more than one purpose, or for a future purpose. So,
Speaker 2: for example, I don't know what the overpasses into Queensgate
Speaker 2: that are being proposed. I don't know how they would
Speaker 2: have to be constructed or in what different way they
Speaker 2: would have to be constructed in order for the streetcar
Speaker 2: to be able to go over those overpasses in the future.
Speaker 2: That ever, that ever, managing the weight, for example, yeah,
Speaker 2: or yeah, the weight and the width of the overpass.
Speaker 2: How much room does the streetcar need to maneuver those
Speaker 2: types of things?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so from a weight standpoint, I would think
Speaker 1: that if it can handle a long line of loaded
Speaker 1: semi tractor trailers, it could certainly manage a mostly empty streetcar.
Speaker 2: You would think, ye.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the question is maybe how why the road
Speaker 1: is because of course, going back to your bike, we
Speaker 1: have to have a bike path, right, so you got
Speaker 1: to have that and pedestrian walking paths. So there's a
Speaker 1: little extra with right there. And then on top of that,
Speaker 1: maybe enough additional space you could run some railroad track
Speaker 1: on it, even though they didn't have to do that
Speaker 1: for the streetcar downtown Cincinnati. They just put the track
Speaker 1: on the road and the cars navigate around or behind
Speaker 1: or with the streetcar, which seems logical and reasonable.
Speaker 2: Right, So these overpasses will be new. So the idea
Speaker 2: of these planners is to make sure that you know,
Speaker 2: we're prepared to extend the streetcar if we ever, if
Speaker 2: we ever get that far. The problem I have with
Speaker 2: that is paying for it. Well, if you look at
Speaker 2: any of this, Brian, the only numbers that have been
Speaker 2: published is that the original plan for Queen's Gate or
Speaker 2: for this additional planning, would be like one hundred million dollars. Now,
Speaker 2: when a three point six billion dollar project that doesn't much,
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem like much, But that money is going
Speaker 2: to have to come from another source other than the
Speaker 2: money that's already devoted to the project.
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get the Brown family to pay for it,
Speaker 1: since we built them the stadium.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So oh, Joe suggested railroad money. But see, Joe, that's
Speaker 1: for existing infrastructure, and I'm still waiting for them to
Speaker 1: pave to pay Sunset my favorite illustration of a neglected
Speaker 1: road that will literally throw your car out of alignment
Speaker 1: the moment you drive on it any number of feet. Hold,
Speaker 1: no one cares about price Hill Joe says, he's probably right.
Speaker 1: He is right.
Speaker 2: But now that you bring up the railway, the first
Speaker 2: thing that I thought about in terms of the they
Speaker 2: called it sacrificial slabbing, or I call it future proofing.
Speaker 2: Once you prepare that for the streetcar, does that make
Speaker 2: that existing infrastructure? And can we now extend that streetcar? Yes,
Speaker 2: over those overpasses because that infrastructure is existing.
Speaker 1: Of course, Because I feel very confident I have not
Speaker 1: read the documents. I don't know that I even have
Speaker 1: access to them. But the limitations on using railroad that
Speaker 1: railroad sale money were for use on existing infrastructure. And
Speaker 1: as you point out, anybody can make that argument once
Speaker 1: you build it with some other dollars, and you and
Speaker 1: I Todd, you more than anyone know. Money is fungible.
Speaker 1: So they got a pile of railroad money over here,
Speaker 1: they use this pile of money over here, could be
Speaker 1: in the same bank account for all I know. But no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not the railroad money. This is our taxpayer dollars
Speaker 1: from over here. This is the normal money we spent
Speaker 1: on infrastructure, and we're going to use that to build
Speaker 1: these future you know, with roads. And then once they're building, like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's the railroad money, we can use that because the
Speaker 1: road's built, it's existing. That I guarantee. That's the idea. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What's funny is the city Council earlier this month made
Speaker 2: a motion where they want the city to study They
Speaker 2: want the city administration to study this and get back
Speaker 2: to them in sixty days. So back in February, the
Speaker 2: City Council passed a motion to get a study on
Speaker 2: additional internal controls and safeguards for the railway money. So
Speaker 2: I was working with Crammerdine Jeff Grammerdine on that, and
Speaker 2: I wanted them to put a deadline in on their
Speaker 2: study or on their report, like sixty days. They didn't
Speaker 2: do that. So nine months later, does the city council
Speaker 2: have a report about how to strengthen the guideline and
Speaker 2: the internal controls and the railway money. No, they don't,
Speaker 2: but they want this, this plan for the for Queensgate
Speaker 2: done in sixty days.
Speaker 1: This is you know, it's also funny on a theoretical
Speaker 1: level if you just look like if we were just
Speaker 1: talking on completely theoretical bases, this would be downright high comedy.
Speaker 1: This is going on right now with real dollars at
Speaker 1: stake here and the future of the city at stake here,
Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering about the competency level of the
Speaker 1: people who are responsible for the decision making, if you
Speaker 1: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting is that this Bridge Forward group who
Speaker 2: is pushing this plan for the for the Queen Skate area,
Speaker 2: they're affiliated with the Davoo Foundation. Somehow, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: exactly what the what the connection is. But the Davoo
Speaker 2: Foundation is the organization that's behind this, is expanding the
Speaker 2: street car.
Speaker 1: Hold the thought. We're out of time. In the hour,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I'm gonna get the hairy eyeball from Joe.
Speaker 1: We'll continue with Todd Zenzer after the top of the
Speaker 1: art news your voice. Thank you for telling macall your country.
Speaker 1: It's refreshing.
Speaker 2: Hear it every day.
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Speaker 1: bottom of the hour shoot the drones. Oh it's hilarious. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious. Column obviously very very legally and
Speaker 1: constitutionally based. But we'll hear from the judge at bottom.
Speaker 1: Always look forward to that, and I sure hope you
Speaker 1: do too. Always remember when you can't listen to live,
Speaker 1: pull it up on podcast page fifty five kr se
Speaker 1: dot com. In the meantime, I continue, are we rather
Speaker 1: Todd Zinser and I continue our in studio conversation. We're
Speaker 1: going to continue talking about this project, the Brent Spenz
Speaker 1: Bridge project. Now, now I did learn that in spite
Speaker 1: of my out loud statement that nobody disagrees that the
Speaker 1: bridge itself needs to be modernized to the extend it
Speaker 1: can handle the additional traffic. It's obviously threefold more than
Speaker 1: it was when it was built. It's getting long in
Speaker 1: the tooth in terms of its life, and so that's
Speaker 1: why the federal government has agreed to expend what do
Speaker 1: you say, the allocation was one point one one point
Speaker 1: six billion. Now, we were talking about these delays, and
Speaker 1: there's been many delays over the years. How the what's
Speaker 1: the project going to look like? And then all these
Speaker 1: add ons that keep popping up out of nowhere. You
Speaker 1: meant in the Future Forward group, and you got mentioned
Speaker 1: the duvou Foundation now has got its hand in the
Speaker 1: cookie jar with all these additional proposals extensions. Oh we
Speaker 1: need to you know, extend it to get over to
Speaker 1: the west end, and blah blah blah. The original price
Speaker 1: tag for this Brent Spn sprint project was two point
Speaker 1: one billion.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think it was even lower than that years earlier,
Speaker 2: but well just a couple of years ago it was
Speaker 2: two point one.
Speaker 1: So as we move forward with no work done, the
Speaker 1: price obviously is increasing. I mean, if you just look
Speaker 1: at what the effect COVID supply chain issues and the
Speaker 1: cost of labor and inflation has done alone, that's how
Speaker 1: we now end up with a three point six billion
Speaker 1: dollar project, excuse me, which does not include any of
Speaker 1: these additional things that we have been talking about this morning.
Speaker 2: Right the modifications over the west, the Queensgate West in
Speaker 2: those types of areas.
Speaker 1: And sacrificial slabs and all these the do dads, the extras,
Speaker 1: the stuff and things. And you showed a really bright
Speaker 1: right light of reality over the break here that I
Speaker 1: think my lists need to hear because their probably a
Speaker 1: world in their eyes going, oh my god, this is
Speaker 1: going to be insane. How are you going to pay
Speaker 1: for this? Well, it may be that all this time
Speaker 1: and energy is just really talking about theoretical things, things
Speaker 1: that will not happen because the money is not there now,
Speaker 1: ignoring the railroad money complexities and whether or not this
Speaker 1: is going to become existing infrastructure or not. It isn't
Speaker 1: built yet. That's right, So you're not going to extend
Speaker 1: the streetcar line on a road if it isn't built,
Speaker 1: because there's no money for that either and no will
Speaker 1: or desire. But you mentioned that the price tag for
Speaker 1: any of this stuff would fall on Frankfurt and Columbus,
Speaker 1: the Ohio and Kentucky taxpayers, because the federal government has
Speaker 1: already issued its allocation.
Speaker 2: Right, there's a contract now that the governments of Ohio
Speaker 2: and Kentucky have signed with the general contractor. This is
Speaker 2: a design build, which means they got one outfit, both
Speaker 2: designing it and constructing it. The contract have been signed
Speaker 2: with that group, so they're not going to tolerate all
Speaker 2: a bunch of changes while they're trying to get the bridge.
Speaker 1: Belt fair enough, which means the conversations with these outside
Speaker 1: entities are are done more as a matter of courtesy,
Speaker 1: because yes, they're not going to happen because the money's
Speaker 1: not there.
Speaker 2: That's right. There's the Then what the State of Ohio
Speaker 2: and Commonwealth of Kentucky did at some point they told
Speaker 2: Bridge Forward that you're going to have to deal with
Speaker 2: the contractor. We're going to we're issuing a contract. Any
Speaker 2: changes you want, you're going to have to work it
Speaker 2: out with the contractor, and that that's what's been going on.
Speaker 1: Okay, And the contractor already knows what finite dollars it's
Speaker 1: working with because no one else is coming up with
Speaker 1: the additional dollars.
Speaker 2: And there's incentives on the contractor to save money. There's
Speaker 2: something called value engineering, which means that they need to
Speaker 2: continually look at their processes and their construction to squeeze
Speaker 2: out additional savings. They've got all of that in there.
Speaker 1: It's in their advantage to do that anyway, that's right.
Speaker 1: So that's where additional profit can come from.
Speaker 2: So what's happening with the Queensgate area is really going
Speaker 2: to boil down to a city issue. That's why the
Speaker 2: city council now once they study on this whole proposal,
Speaker 2: because they're going to wind up paying for it.
Speaker 1: Okay, But the Commonwealth and the state of Ohio are
Speaker 1: both And as much as I complain about Columbus, I
Speaker 1: can't imagine the Republicans in Columbus or the Republicans in
Speaker 1: Frankfurt agreeing to throw additional taxpayer dollar resources at any
Speaker 1: of these additional projects. I mean, are you with me
Speaker 1: on that? At least in terms of expectation.
Speaker 2: Yes, you look at how long this project has been
Speaker 2: coming for yeah, decades, and a lot of it was
Speaker 2: because of the lack of funding. So now they've got
Speaker 2: the funding they need for the bridge, and you're going
Speaker 2: to go back and try to get more after the
Speaker 2: State of Ohio and the Commonwealth are putting all of
Speaker 2: this money into it already, it's just not practical.
Speaker 1: It's not And the city doesn't own this project.
Speaker 2: Well, they absolutely do not own the bridge project and
Speaker 2: the act, the entrances and exits on the Ohio side,
Speaker 2: that's still part of the project. The modifications though to
Speaker 2: open up Queensgate and to make it more accessible to
Speaker 2: people from downtown, that's all the city's.
Speaker 1: Business, right that would be a city project as opposed
Speaker 1: to a federal sort of it's a quasi federal state
Speaker 1: project right now in terms of replacing the bridge and
Speaker 1: dealing with that that space. So has anybody pointed this out,
Speaker 1: the ones that continue to talk about all this extra
Speaker 1: stuff and things and delays that has the governor of
Speaker 1: the state of Ohio or the governor of Kentucky and
Speaker 1: I know we got that to deal with, but put
Speaker 1: their collective foot down and just said shut up. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is what we've already contracted this out.
Speaker 2: Actually, Governor DeWine made some kind of statement about, well,
Speaker 2: the people of Cincinnati should decide or something like that.
Speaker 1: Conscious pilots washing his hands. The whole thing is that
Speaker 1: it exactly well, he's got constituents they answer for, and
Speaker 1: that'll be the taxpayers in every other county in the
Speaker 1: state of Ohio.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the other thing to keep in mind on
Speaker 2: this Queen's Gate issue in the streetcar that the future
Speaker 2: proofing is what about metro. I mean, they raised our
Speaker 2: property taxes, or we agreed to raise our property taxes
Speaker 2: so we could have a more robust metro, and rather
Speaker 2: than use them going in and out of Queen's Gate,
Speaker 2: they want to put a somebody's thinking they're going to
Speaker 2: put a streetcar through there. It just it just doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense to me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't I don't know how it can make sense
Speaker 1: to anybody. I mean, you know, before they built the
Speaker 1: damn streetcar, we were all saying, jeez, just look, make
Speaker 1: buses look like streetcars. They can go around accidents, they
Speaker 1: don't require the meeting. It's in upkeep that a street
Speaker 1: car does. They're not permanent fixtures in the ground. There's
Speaker 1: a traffic issue. The bus can take a left as
Speaker 1: opposed to going straight. You know, I mean it, This
Speaker 1: just makes more sense. They're they're they're immediately movable in
Speaker 1: terms of the roots they take. Yeah, so all these
Speaker 1: things keep coming back up.
Speaker 2: Yes, they do. And the issue with the with the
Speaker 2: Metro is that they only have like sixteen million dollars
Speaker 2: in operating revenue, but they opt their operating budget is
Speaker 2: almost one hundred and thirty million dollars. So the difference
Speaker 2: there is your are your property taxes. And the fact
Speaker 2: is I think if you look at what they're spending
Speaker 2: money on, they've probably got more money than they know
Speaker 2: what to do with. In fact, they are. They have
Speaker 2: some kind of grant program where they give money to
Speaker 2: jurisdictions to do things about Metro. I mean, they've got
Speaker 2: so much money now that they have this tax increase,
Speaker 2: that they're flush. They have no issues with money whatsoever.
Speaker 1: You're talking about metros Metro, Yes, yes, yeah, Well, and
Speaker 1: then I'll go back to the deteriorating nature of the
Speaker 1: infrastructure within the City of Cincinnati. Generally speaking, there's a
Speaker 1: listener out there that you should call in Fred and
Speaker 1: he's like, I just want my damn road fix. You know,
Speaker 1: look at they've got potholes all over. I just want
Speaker 1: my road fix. That's the constant refrain from the average
Speaker 1: person in the city. And my constant complained about I
Speaker 1: mean again, sunset my favorite illustration. That road looks like
Speaker 1: it's been through either Afghanistan war or it looks like
Speaker 1: it's from Syria and they just imported it as is,
Speaker 1: and it's looked that way for years. They let everything
Speaker 1: fall apart while they chase that for these shiny bright objects,
Speaker 1: when I think most taxpayers would be just comfortable with
Speaker 1: them keeping and maintaining what we've got already.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, Brian, that that should be
Speaker 2: the use of the railway money.
Speaker 1: Let's pause from and we'll have one more with with
Speaker 1: Todd Zinzer and maybe we can talk about property taxes
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I don't know if you saw
Speaker 1: what happened the other day in Columbus. They had a
Speaker 1: piece of legislation to help maybe deal with this property
Speaker 1: tax reality, and well it just doesn't quite do enough.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, what are you gonna throw out the
Speaker 1: decent for the sake of the perfect they had a
Speaker 1: chance to do it. It's been laying around for years.
Speaker 1: But they're going on vacation, so they're going to start
Speaker 1: all over again next year. Hang on one more with Todd
Speaker 1: Zender before we get to judge anapollo time. It's eight
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Speaker 2: at Hunkolenoscopy tests.
Speaker 1: And Brian Thomas with Todd Zenzer, former Inspector General, knows
Speaker 1: what he's talking about when it comes to dollars and
Speaker 1: cents and managing projects and looking at them. And of
Speaker 1: course he spent the first three quarters of an hour
Speaker 1: last segment in this dealing with the Brent Spn's Bid
Speaker 1: Bid project and all of the dreams and stuff and
Speaker 1: things that others want to go along with it, which
Speaker 1: in the final analysis there's no money for. So when
Speaker 1: you hear people talk about all this, just remember there's
Speaker 1: no money for it, and it's not likely. I think
Speaker 1: maybe if a winning, a prayer or a miracle will happen,
Speaker 1: it may come from Columbus or Frankfurt, but I highly
Speaker 1: doubt that. And with Donald Trump taking over as president
Speaker 1: again in vvak Ramaswammy and Elon Musk at the Helm
Speaker 1: of Doge, I doubt we're going to see more federal
Speaker 1: money coming at this project. Either the contract's been signed
Speaker 1: designer build contract, they've already selected the contractor they've already
Speaker 1: got a signed contract to do it. It's a finite
Speaker 1: amount of money, so I guess let them talk. But
Speaker 1: as we talked through it, it really is a work
Speaker 1: of high comedy. And you know the use of the
Speaker 1: west or the west side. I do note that there
Speaker 1: are a whole lot of railroad lines over there, and
Speaker 1: those are still used to a ferry goods through the area.
Speaker 1: They're not getting rid of the railroads, are they no?
Speaker 2: Okay, Price Hill, Lower Price Hill, East Price Hill, West
Speaker 2: Price Hill. They're still going to be the other side
Speaker 2: of the tracks.
Speaker 1: All right, fair enough? Now moving over to property taxes,
Speaker 1: everyone soiled themselves when they got the reassessment after COVID.
Speaker 1: I know multiple people they had thirty percent increases and
Speaker 1: you got seniors out there complaining there fixed incomes and
Speaker 1: how can I handle this? They keep going up. We
Speaker 1: know the price of real estate's gone up as a
Speaker 1: natural reality. There is a solution. It must come from
Speaker 1: Columbus here in the state of Ohio. And there was
Speaker 1: a solution which sounded like a decent proposal to increase
Speaker 1: the homestead exemption right that would help seniors primarily primarily Yes,
Speaker 1: And it was signed, sealed, delivered that I think the
Speaker 1: House already even voter on it overwhelmingly. The only thing
Speaker 1: the Senate had to do was pick it up and
Speaker 1: sign it, and the governor probably would have signed it.
Speaker 1: But I read the statement of some senator that was Blessing,
Speaker 1: I can't remember who. I think he's to say, well,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't do quite as much or doesn't do enough.
Speaker 1: So in other words, we're going to go into another
Speaker 1: calendar year in another legislative session, and that means it's
Speaker 1: going to be thrown out and they'll have to start
Speaker 1: from scratch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know exactly what Bill Blessing's concerns are,
Speaker 2: but most of the other politicians they probably don't want
Speaker 2: to put a fix in because it's going to reduce
Speaker 2: the amount of income coming into the state. I mean,
Speaker 2: politicians have a hard time saying no, we don't want
Speaker 2: more money from the taxpayers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I know it's a systemic problem.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think that the issues with the homestead exemption.
Speaker 2: As the House passed it, it had a cap of
Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars, so it was for It was basically
Speaker 2: designed for homeowners, longtime homeowners who are now on Social Security,
Speaker 2: and any property tax increases are going to hit those people.
Speaker 1: The heart artist, right, So that's why I thought it was.
Speaker 1: It was, you know, a small bite at the apple
Speaker 1: is better than nothing at all, and there may be
Speaker 1: some wild, grand solution the Blessing or somebody else has
Speaker 1: in the back of their mind. But the price tag
Speaker 1: on it, as I read it, was only like one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety six million dollars. It really it didn't
Speaker 1: add it up to much at all when it comes
Speaker 1: to the amount of taxpayer dollars that got into Columbus. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I didn't see the numbers, so I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: worth talking of mister Blessing about see what his issues are,
Speaker 2: just see whether they can be fixed in the next session.
Speaker 1: Joe just said, yeah, I just get ready to say hey, Joe,
Speaker 1: so you can get him on the Morning show. He
Speaker 1: just he just uttered in my head said slim and none.
Speaker 2: That's too bad.
Speaker 1: I know it is, but we have that problem with
Speaker 1: a lot of politicians. So Todd, I love the fact
Speaker 1: that you're willing to talk about this. You unravel and
Speaker 1: unfold these quite complex and difficult issues and the easy
Speaker 1: to understand components, which is wonderful for me because you know,
Speaker 1: quite often, like when we started this conversation, this whole
Speaker 1: thing look like the peace of God passing all human understanding.
Speaker 1: And you of course got me past that. I know
Speaker 1: you helped out my listeners with it as well. And
Speaker 1: even if you're outside the city of Cincinnati, and this
Speaker 1: does affect northern Kentucky dramatically affects everybody in the greater
Speaker 1: Cincinnati area. But just as a concept, when you talk
Speaker 1: about government generally, and even just that point you made
Speaker 1: about politicians Republican Democrat, they cannot cannot stop the flow
Speaker 1: of money, and anything that's going to less than the
Speaker 1: amount of money that goes into their coffers they're going
Speaker 1: to be against. And I think we just hit the
Speaker 1: nail on the head in terms of the broader problems
Speaker 1: we face here in the country. Maybe that's where that
Speaker 1: thirty seven trillion dollar debt came from. Exactly, Todd. It's
Speaker 1: a wonderful man. Merry Christmas, you and yours I have
Speaker 1: wonderful holidays, and you and I will definitely talk next year.
Speaker 1: You're always welcome on the Morning show.
Speaker 2: Okay, Brian, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks brother e twenty five. Thanks for making it into
Speaker 1: the studio too. I really appreciate that. Folks. I hope
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