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Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate, body and soul or

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should I just say bunny?

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Speaker 2: Hello, Filthy movie lovers, Something Weirdos and anti Criterion Bros.

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To the thirty third episode of The Sin Syndicate, the

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only podcast with a leather wardrobe, consultant lingerie by Lady

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Marlene and a no photos edict on the set. My

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name is Gentry Austen, writer and researcher, and I'm here

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with my co host, adult film historian Casey Scott. And

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in this week's episode, we will be putting on our

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finest footwear and pulling out our stiffest riding crop for

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a look at a family nightclub drama with a dash

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of fetishism director Jerry Introteur's Bad Girls Do It Well

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pulp noir Satan in high heels.

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Speaker 3: I'm the kind of woman not hot, understand. I'm the

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one who cracks the whip and holds the upper hand.

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I'll bet you mystery you till you quivering quail. The

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female of the species is more deadly than the male.

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Speaker 4: When you mess with me off, I am around with

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the flame. When you find that you've been burned, you've

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only yourself the flame I'll hurt.

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Speaker 3: You, desert you if you ever should fail. The female

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of the species is more deadly than the man I

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would if I could.

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Speaker 2: Joining us again is the young og Alex DeSanto, a

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paperback officionado who will be providing some important insight into

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the literary origins of this film, among other things. But

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we've got a stacked show notes this week. Boys, let's

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get right into it with our news and updates from

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the past couple weeks. I thought we'd start with a

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quick recap of last episode, The Most Beautiful Woman in

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the World, which featured writer arkivist Michael Bowen, who joined

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us in the shadow of Peggy Sarno's death for a

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sort of free wheeling conversation. I know we intended to

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cover the film Anything for Money by Joe Sarno, but

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we didn't quite do that like we usually do. But

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sometimes circumstances change, and I'm happy with how it turned out.

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What do you guys think, Casey, I think you got

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some feedback. I loved it. I didn't know.

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Speaker 5: Well, the thing is, I send you the audio files

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and then you do what you do, and so I was.

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I was listening to it. First of all, I looked

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at the runtime, I was like three hours because readers,

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you don't know this. We talked to him for two

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and a half more hours after we stopped recording. It

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was it was like five Basically, we held a week

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for Peggy because we get in the wig of all

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of that. But also I think because as Michael talked about,

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he's working on another project now that is not related

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to exploitation for him. So for him to kind of

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dive back into talking shop with us where we're asking

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the you know, the quote unquote right questions and we're

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we're obviously passionate about it, I think it really got

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his motor running, and so he really just wanted to

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keep talking and I'm glad we were able to do that.

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You know, we did get really good feedback. I'm not

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going to credit who it is, but uh so we

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got this message we have a group chat with somebody

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who will be on the show next week. We'll leave

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it that there. So he said, Okay, I listened to

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the Sarno Bowen episode on my drive today. That needs

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to be packaged up and put in the Library of Congress,

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the Kinsey Institute in a copy place. In the next

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capsule NASA sends into outer space representing mankind extraterrestrials. I

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was honestly so worn out by it in a good way.

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Put Michael in some kind of protective custody until he

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gets these books out, and uh, yeah, I co sign

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all of that because you know, typically I will listen

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to our episodes a few times, because I also add

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to the letterbox list of all the master movies and things,

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and that was reliving. It was was exhausting in a

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good way because there was so much covered. It wasn't

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just Sarno, Like we diverted into Wishman and we diverted

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like yeah, it was a jumped all over the place,

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but in the best way possible. And I think going forward,

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if we're going to have somebody who's an expert and

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a certain filmmaker, it might be best to just do

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that kind of conversation kind of kind of like what

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we did with Lisa, where was just about something weird

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and Dave Friedman. I think if we try to stick

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to one film, it kind of restricts it. And so

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with Bowen, he was able to talk about every aspect

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of Sarno's life and career and then Peggy's life and career.

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So I think it worked out really well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you, Alex, did you would you think

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looking back, I'm mirroring the exact same thing.

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Speaker 6: I need to go back and take notes. You go

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back and taken notes research.

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Speaker 2: I need to. Yeah, I need you too.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. And also, folks, just just let you know, because

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it hasn't been me available yet. Anything for money is

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available to watch on YouTube until someone takes it down.

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So just go watch it. Honestly, just go watch it

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and learn that it's a great start out.

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Speaker 5: I'm surprised somebody hasn't put it up on archive dot

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org actually, because you can get away with anything on

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archived dot org. There are pink films, very graphic pink

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films on there that have been up for years. So

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maybe that's where if it gets taken down, whoever put

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it up, If if you're listening, put it on archive

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dot org and tell a certain company to sides that

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they're going to reissue it whenever that is. But we'll

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have a conversation with that person, probably on this show

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at some point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we want to put a link

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to that YouTube or not. I didn't know it was

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on YouTube. YouTube is the easiest thing to search. Just

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go find it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not gonna help you find it's right there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right, Yeah. I mean people, we've had this discussion before,

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people that are like where do I watch this? And

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I'm always like, I don't know how to answer this question.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, Well then you should not. Yeah, like

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I told, I think you asked about a certain film

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and I was like, yeah, just a standard. A standard

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thing is I have access to the to the home

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video release of this, And that's kind of it. It's

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you know, it's it, because then anything else kind of

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invites the invites the possibility. Then you're sending them a

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file and if you don't want to do that, then

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it kind of leaves you looking like like your gatekeeping stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it's like, I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 5: I just want the movie to come out in a

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good condition, and I feel like if it's spread around

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too much in in covert ways, then maybe it won't.

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I mean, there's there's levels to this.

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Speaker 2: I get it, and yeah, let's and this segues into

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our other note here where we I stumbled on this

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YouTube account that has all these AI upscaled sexploitation movies,

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and it's they're like credited as, oh, four K, come

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watch four K of a Good Time with a Bad Girl.

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It's just like, this is not a legit four K,

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but that's how they're advertising it. And people I've seen

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reviews on letterbox. This guy's like, oh, yeah, go watch

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it incident four K. I'm like, dude, do you know

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what this is? This is garbage?

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Speaker 5: Like so spoiler alert that review might be the person

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who actually did the AI upscaling it. Why else would

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they say I watched it in four K? You guys

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who never even can Who else raves about oh my god,

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it's in four K in a review unless it's the

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person responsible.

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Speaker 2: I think there are like weirdo freaks out there that

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are like obsessed with anything for like, if it's as

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four K, they're like, yes, they think this is some

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very special, rare thing that they can like brag about it.

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Speaker 6: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: And it's an AI upscale from the DVD rip. Yes, well,

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I will say, like the adults, the adult side, those

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of us who you know sail the pirate sees and

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put it that way. Looking for rare stuff. I've had

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to deal with AI upscaled versions of classic gay porn

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and straight porn for a long time, and I am

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always one of the comments because sometimes they won't they

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won't tag it it's AI upscale. Now watch it, and

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it's gross and the movements are weird especial if you're

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working from an old VHS source. It really looks so

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unnatural and disgusting. So I'm the person in the comment saying,

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why did you do this? You destroyed this film? Yeah,

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and they get really offended. I'm like, this doesn't make

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the film look better. I don't know if you have glaucoma,

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I don't know what the issue is. Any normal I

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will notice this does not look good. So, yeah, it's

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and they do it, I think so that they can

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get you know, they can get download points or whatever,

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or their ratio can go up on those certain sites,

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and it's just like just.

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Speaker 6: So the HD.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they can just like in it as like, oh,

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this is an HD, and people that are searching for things,

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you know, they're going to prefer something that's in HD

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without really realizing like this was never you know, this

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was never scanned in HD. So this is clearly an upscale.

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Speaker 5: And in any cases it never will be because a

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lot of those films, the elements are gone, especially in

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classic Gabehorn, we have like all of Joe Gage's stuff,

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all that all those elements are gone, So all of

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his stuff has been upscaled in AI, and it just

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looks so revolting and disgusting. And I also got to

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tell you money shots in AI look look especially revolting

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because they look so unnatural and so fake and weird

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and animated. And so I'm just like, this is what

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is this? Who is co signing this? And who is

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accepting this? It's very strange.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me just lastly just say, yeah, the black

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and white stuff doesn't look as bad, but the color

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stuff definitely. You can notice the AI upscaling. It looks

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it's it's it's butchering the films. We're not gatekeeping here,

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Like we know, YouTube is the most accessible place to

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find films for especially people that are in other countries

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that don't have access to this stuff. But just there's

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there's got to be a better way to do this

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than to go on YouTube and watch this crap go ahead.

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Speaker 6: And so I don't even know how they're doing it.

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YouTube should have taken this down centuries ago. We were

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just talking about this YouTube. You say that out so badly.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 6: I've gotten two channels removed for like secretly like making

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links for other people on this stuff. Any think it's like,

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how are they still here?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I've had stuff taking down for music. I actually had

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Trauma had one of my videos taken down because it

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was from one of the X rated movies Lloyd Kaufman made.

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And Michael Hurrs is very insistent on people don't know

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that Trauma was a porn company in the seventies, even

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though it's all out there in the open, been in

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in writing on posters and shit. So yeah, I got

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a notification Michael Hers and Trauma Inc. Has submitted a

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copyright claim on your video. And I was like, huh, interesting, Michael,

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I thought you so you own the movie. You're just

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saying you didn't make it. I see, okay, why do

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you own born Michael? What's the what's the what's the issue?

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So yeah, there, yeah, YouTube. Yeah, I can't imagine. I

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can't believe YouTube was leaving. That's why I'm shocking anything

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for money still up? I mean there is nudity in

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that right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I posted a very short clip a long time ago

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from anything for Money, and I forgot that like you

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can you can barely see you, like you know Joanna

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Mills's areola, and that got flat. So I have no

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idea what's going on with this this account that is

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I mean, they have like russ Meyer films in and

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they're incredibly litigious, So who the hell is letting that happen?

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I just checked, Yes, the site that this YouTube account

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is still up, so it's got nine thousand subscribers. Hey

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us if you want to take a look at it,

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but we're not going to post.

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Speaker 5: No, do not DM us about this. You should not

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put your eyes on. Don't put you don't we're not

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we're any because any clicks on that profile will automatically

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generate something good for that profile in terms of the algorithm,

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in terms of views, in terms of attention. No, so

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that click you just clicked on Gentry, that will be

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your last click and not give them any more attention

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because it's obviously it's probably monetized too, so they probably

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get money from every click and view. So yeah, what's

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the remember that remember the Simpsons song just don't look.

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Just don't look, just don't look, just don't look.

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Speaker 2: Uh New Beverly updates what's going on over there? Do

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we want to talk about? What if it's been a

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couple of weeks. What have they screened? Yesn't they screened?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're twenty today's the twenty first, so we're twenty

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one days into this marathon thing.

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Speaker 4: Much.

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Speaker 5: I've gotten a lot more feedback on this where people

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thought it was going to be a little too harsh

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on them, and I was like, listen, I love the idea,

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but like I said, I think if there was more

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intention with the way this was done, it would have

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been more successful instead it really and then I apparently

254
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heard that there were more people involved with programming this

255
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than I would have realized. It wasn't just like one

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person who's just like, well, what prince.

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Speaker 2: Do we have?

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Speaker 5: So that makes it even worse to me. It's kind

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of like, wait, there were a lot of hands in

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this pie and they still couldn't get a handle on this.

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The big one that I remember well, Smell of Honey.

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I did a pre ative letterbox review after I had

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had like twelve beers, and I was just like new

264
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Beverly crowd. You need to understand, like Stacy Walker is

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incredible and she walked off camera into a terrible marriage

266
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with this asshole who abandoned her. Like the end of

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the movie is sad for me because of that, because

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it's like we're never going to see her again. So

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as disturbing as not, you know what's the word, as

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problematic as that movie is, I think outside of the

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film is more disturbing to me because you know, Stacy

272
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Walker got shafted ingo. We found out was missing the

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mansturbation sequence, which is the centerpiece of the fucking movie.

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And so I'm just like got and so people giving

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it like two and a half stars, two stars. Someone

276
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gave it a half star. You sent me a reviewer.

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It was some woman who was playing victims saying I

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was the only woman in the theater full of men.

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I was like, listen, Gloria Steine, I'm sure you were fine,

280
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and I'm sure you weren't the only woman there, because

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that's not how the New Beverly works. There are all

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sorts of alt women that go to their screenings.

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Speaker 6: So no, and also it was the second film. You

284
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could have left it the second film you could have

285
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walked out.

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Speaker 5: I think Bergmann movie, if they were on a date,

287
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then that's that's a weird date, because yeah, I don't know,

288
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But then then I would question the good person who

289
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brought me. But the fact that, uh yeah, people saw

290
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this and I think there was other part of a

291
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sex scene missing too, so I.

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Speaker 2: Think at the end was yeah, there was something missing

293
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at the end as well.

294
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Speaker 5: Right, And I think people also problems with the fact

295
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that she was a seventeen year old girl being like

296
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pimped up by your aunt and I'm like, welcome to

297
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,360
sarn know, like, come on now. With Sarno films, I

298
00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:05,559
have a lot of family members doing terrible things of

299
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each other, and that's just you know, they That's something

300
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I wish we'd asked about one about It's like, what

301
00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:11,960
the fuck is up with family members trying to seduce

302
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,639
each other or trying to pimp each other out? And

303
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,279
that's a recurring theme in his films, where family members

304
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are really corrupt towards each other. Yeah, but yeah, I

305
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think the the feedwick hasn't been terrible. What was the

306
00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:27,320
one where I was commenting on people's stuff, Oh, Black

307
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,200
and Manual. Yeah, a movie I don't even love but

308
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I was defending Laura Gemzer and kind of telling people,

309
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and someone was like, I just got bored and was

310
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uh looking at the emust counting the emotional scars, and

311
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I was like, well, that's really sad for you because

312
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you're getting to see this most one of the most

313
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beautiful women who's ever been photographed on the big screen

314
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on a print and you're counting emulsion scars. I I

315
00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:55,600
think you might be broken, and I feel sad for you. Yeah,

316
00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:57,120
I mean that's really kind of what is I don't

317
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even hate you, I just feel sorry for you. Yeah,

318
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,159
bad situation.

319
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to see if there was anything else

320
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there that played that.

321
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Speaker 5: We are all smell of honey for sure, which we

322
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talked about. Yeah, apparently they brought af You brought one

323
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of the private duty nurses out. They brought a guest

324
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out for the worst movie of that triple feature for

325
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,360
student nurses private duty and young I was like, you

326
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,120
didn't get well Elaine Giftos wouldn't have shown up, but yeah,

327
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I was like, you didn't even get one of the

328
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student nurses to show up. You got one of the

329
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:29,120
private duty nurses. Joyce Williams though, which is available. Yeah,

330
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I mean I would have liked to have seen her

331
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because she's done other stuff I would have wanted to

332
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talk to her about. But also you know what, you know,

333
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:37,159
what's torture at those things Q and A's at the

334
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,480
New Beverly. It's especially yeah, especially at that venue. It's

335
00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:43,519
a lot of really bad questions. So it's not even questions,

336
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just like I just have to say, like I really

337
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:47,000
like this movie and it reminded me of this time

338
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:48,519
in my life and this thing in my life. It's like,

339
00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:51,759
this is not therapy, this is not the time for that.

340
00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:54,399
This is when you when you corner them in after

341
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the screening and make their life hell, don't make our

342
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lives hell.

343
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I heard too much about

344
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,759
Vixen and Up. But then again, I don't know if

345
00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:05,680
I was really crawling through the recent reviews on that one.

346
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Speaker 5: I don't know if it's got good feedback, which I'm

347
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:11,240
very surprised by because there is so much sexual assault

348
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,400
in that movie. Yeah, I don't know. They said said

349
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,960
it went overwhelmed with a crowd, which is interesting because

350
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,680
that's not like a not must not a Meyer crowd,

351
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So I feel like maybe Up is good for I

352
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,160
don't know that many Meyer people that actually really like

353
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,119
that movie. I know a lot of non Myer people

354
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,319
that like that movie, and I think that's very strange

355
00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:30,200
because I feel like stuff like Master Pussy, Common Luck

356
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,680
Cabin beyond the value of dolls, those are more indicative

357
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of what Meyer movies are like.

358
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Speaker 2: Well, and Erica Gavin was at the Vixen screening, so

359
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,880
maybe people were a little bit better behaved in there.

360
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,680
Speaker 5: That's possible. Well, that's the thing that they knew she

361
00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:46,480
was gonna come. I really wish they period it with

362
00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:49,359
beyond value of the dolls. Yeah, that would have made sense.

363
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,240
But Fox also is really weird about what they'll let

364
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,240
be shown theatrically, and they won't. They don't distribute prints anymore,

365
00:17:56,279 --> 00:17:57,960
so they'd have to get like a private print and

366
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Fox might not be cool about that.

367
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Speaker 2: So yeah, well, tonight and tomorrow is well, tonight's the

368
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:08,880
Mitchell Brothers double feature that's fantasticing yea to them, and

369
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,799
then tomorrow's the Hardcore Horror with the Secret Surprise third feature,

370
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:19,599
which on that other podcast, the Official The Official New

371
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,880
Beverly Podcast, they were kind of raving about that third feature.

372
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So I'm curious to see what that is.

373
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Speaker 5: I'm intrigued because I don't know any other horror Triple

374
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,759
X horror movie that. Yeah, it's not lost.

375
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,839
Speaker 2: For years that apparently Vinegars.

376
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Speaker 5: But if they had that, then why hasn't been reissued?

377
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 2: They just find it? Yeah?

378
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 5: It makes me really, I have questions.

379
00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:46,200
Speaker 2: So I don't know. Yeah, all right, that's enough about

380
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:51,079
New Beverly. We rant about that. What's going on with these?

381
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,160
We got some more loss than in Limbo? Is this you? Uh?

382
00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 5: Oh j Yeah the Sweden find Oh my god, yes,

383
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,400
well yeah, I forgot about that because their stupid website

384
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,920
has has gone funky again and I can't find anything.

385
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,039
Speaker 6: Oh it keeps, it fluctuates, it fluctuates. I went back

386
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:10,119
on and they were there too. Yeah. So I had

387
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,480
posted about the fact because I had asked Michael. I

388
00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:14,039
was like, Michael, can you please just tell me if

389
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:16,319
there's any elements for come right the Wild Pink Horse.

390
00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:20,039
And all he said was, oh, there's a sixteen in

391
00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:22,880
the UK that private collector has. So I put the

392
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,519
press book. I just like did a little thing to say, well,

393
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,200
it's it's Limbo now it's not lost. It's limbo now

394
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:33,319
because sixteen exists. Sean Langrick bless his soul, like contacts

395
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,319
me like an hour after I put that up, and

396
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,720
he goes a, were you aware that a German print

397
00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:47,079
has screened twice here like fantastic and here America? No

398
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,400
in Germany? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, screen in Germany twice.

399
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:54,680
And then a minute after he goes, yeah, the Sweetest

400
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:57,240
sweirst film Institude has a sixteen millimere negative.

401
00:19:57,799 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what doupneg Yeah, there's a sixteen milme negative?

402
00:20:02,039 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 6: So I go on there and lo would behold. One

403
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,640
little distributor put out a small handful of Americans exploitation films,

404
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,119
two of them being well. Room eleven was one of them,

405
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,319
which we've already brought up. But there was also Come

406
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,640
Ride the Wild pick Horse, Bed of Violence too, Sandy

407
00:20:21,759 --> 00:20:28,359
Johnson films in Fidel right and Justine Yeah, and some

408
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,400
other weird things. There's millionaires women switchero and I think

409
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,000
maybe such true Yeah, the.

410
00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:45,920
Speaker 5: One that what's his name Don Greer did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

411
00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh, and also a nag a dupe, a thirty

412
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,240
five dupe nag for love rebellion as well. Maybe it's

413
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,680
an English also, yeah, there was also a Barry Mayhon

414
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,920
Oustberry Mayhon film, which one was that there was a

415
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,400
slavery one.

416
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah white slaves.

417
00:21:05,079 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 5: White slaves or something white slavery.

418
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, they have a print of white slavery. And

419
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,519
then that of course lit a fire under my ass.

420
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:18,279
So I went along and found the seducers in Germany.

421
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:19,799
Speaker 2: That's right.

422
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 6: German print or German print exists of that one. So

423
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,960
that's also around. So what was that three of our picks?

424
00:21:28,319 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 2: No?

425
00:21:28,519 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 3: Four?

426
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 6: Because infidelity was one of ours as well.

427
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah, because none of it.

428
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, none of us picked bet of violence.

429
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is cool and all, but you know,

430
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:40,039
now what.

431
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 5: Well, that's why I hesitate. That's why you probably noticed

432
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,720
in the chat that my excitement was slightly muted, just

433
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:49,599
because I feel like if these were because I think

434
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:51,599
even Michael said, oh yeah, I've known they've had those,

435
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,279
and I was just like, okay, then are they difficult

436
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:58,480
to deal with? Are or are they saying they don't

437
00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:00,920
have them? It just makes it definitely makes me ask

438
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,440
more questions, and it makes me really want to ask

439
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,160
Club Super eight if they had to deal with Swedish

440
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,440
Film Institute. Yes, yeah, ask re Card and see what

441
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,680
he has to say, just because I mean I got

442
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,839
worried if they were like UCLA, where it's like, well

443
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,079
you need depending on who deposited that collection. If you're

444
00:22:20,079 --> 00:22:22,279
not connected to who deposited, they won't let you take

445
00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:25,400
it out, which is but if it's in defunked company,

446
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,079
then who the hell can't take it out? So then

447
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,920
you know, it's kind of begs that question. But I

448
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,039
know I'm glad that it's there, but I'm like, yeah,

449
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:32,960
let's get this.

450
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: Let's get this shit rescued. Please.

451
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, and especially because I think most of them are

452
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,559
black and white, correct, so I know they're going to

453
00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:43,079
look great, yes from negatives?

454
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,079
Speaker 2: Yeah please yeah? Yeah.

455
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 5: Well also you mentioned the Seducers. Does remind me we

456
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,240
did get that sad piece of news from Michael as

457
00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:57,160
well confirmation then Mishieva Britt unfortunately did pass away. And

458
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,200
this is also why public public record cannot always be trusted,

459
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,880
because public record still tells me she's alive. So yeah,

460
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,880
but he interviewed her twice, right, I think.

461
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, we got something.

462
00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, so those books will come out actually something I

463
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,480
need to suggest Tom if he's going to do an

464
00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:18,559
oral history, he should try to edit together from the

465
00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,480
interviews a audiobook version so we can hear the people

466
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:23,880
actually say this. Wow.

467
00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be a lot of work, but yeah, that

468
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:26,440
would be coo.

469
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:28,079
Speaker 5: He doesn't have to do it. You have somebody else

470
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:28,400
do it.

471
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:29,799
Speaker 2: I would do it.

472
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 5: I love editing. I'll do it.

473
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 6: It's good. We'll see.

474
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:34,799
Speaker 2: I know.

475
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,279
Speaker 5: That's the thing because if they were they were talking

476
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,519
like twenty no, twenty five years ago, a long time ago, Jesus,

477
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,640
because on my interviews without old two and they don't

478
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,839
sound they don't sound amazing.

479
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:46,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was one. I'm like, yeah, what

480
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,720
is the quality of those interviews?

481
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 5: You have to do a lot of like work work

482
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,279
on those tapes, especially if they're over like because now

483
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,519
we have digital recordings, when you're doing it over like

484
00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,319
the phone phone lines, just that phone static is very obvious.

485
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,079
That was a bummer. But now I really want to

486
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:04,920
see Seduces more because especially because the movie we're talking

487
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,519
about today makes me think that that might be they

488
00:24:08,599 --> 00:24:10,559
might be similar, and that they're kind of aiming for

489
00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:14,519
the stars with like professional people involved, right, I could

490
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:14,880
see that.

491
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Graham Place resurgence. I think this was I

492
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,759
think this came up because I watched a few recently

493
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:26,079
and I.

494
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 5: Was finally joined, you finally joined the club.

495
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I don't understand why I have never heard

496
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,519
of him before talking to you guys like, Okay, give

497
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:38,960
us like a quick brief, you know, maybe we'll talk

498
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,920
about a Grand Place movie down the road, but give

499
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,200
us like a quick up.

500
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:43,599
Speaker 4: You know.

501
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, like a Cliff's notes on him, because yeah.

502
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 5: Well that's the thing we don't have. We don't have

503
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,920
a cliff Notes essentially, like you would you would ask

504
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,039
what if his credits are accurate? Basically he worked with

505
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:57,960
Anything on IMDb up to nineteen eighty is absolutely him

506
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,079
because it's where him working in New York, the New

507
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,720
York area with Ron Sullivan, Armond Weston, a lot of

508
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,359
other sex film people, Don Walters. It's all this Arthur Marx.

509
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,480
So he would work with Arthur Marx. Anytime we see

510
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,240
the credit Saint Mark's Place on anything, that's Arthur Marks

511
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:19,799
and Graham Place working together. So the issue is, I

512
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:22,400
don't know if I told the story before I was

513
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:26,000
Ron Sullivan, God rest his soul. When he found out

514
00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:29,400
he was dying and he couldn't undergo Keino any longer,

515
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,079
and he was was basically biding his time. He sent

516
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,519
me an email with all of his contacts and said,

517
00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:38,160
here's everyone that if you ever want to talk to

518
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,519
anybody about this time in the industry, here all of

519
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,839
these contacts. Tell them that I sent you even after

520
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,079
I'm gone, and that should work. I was like, God, Ron,

521
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,640
he didn't need to do that, but he just he

522
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,400
wanted to make sure I got the story. One of

523
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,559
those people was Don Walters. Emailed Don Walters while Ron

524
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,440
was alive, which may have been my mistake. And I

525
00:25:57,519 --> 00:25:59,359
want I said, I wanted to talk about your group,

526
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,079
you know, to talk about you and Art in Grand

527
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,119
Place and Arthur Marx. I wanted to know about this

528
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,519
collective because the films you made together are amazing. He

529
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:13,200
was the nastiest, nastiest son of a bitch I've ever contacted.

530
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:16,039
He said, how dare you? How dare you bother Ron

531
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:18,240
as he's dying for my contact, and I was like,

532
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:21,519
that's not what happened. He unsolicited found out that he

533
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:24,119
was dying and he wanted and he we were talking anyway,

534
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,039
and he sent me all this shit and he was like,

535
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,400
and this person's dead this he said, one of this

536
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,160
person is dead. One is very is very busy. One

537
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,960
I would never put you in touch with because I

538
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,480
don't even know who you are. And while he was

539
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:39,640
so nasty, which is crazy because I met his wife,

540
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:46,359
Bondie Chillie Wilson's daughter. Bondie's amazing, but don nastiest, nastiest

541
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,559
guy I've ever ever spoken to, wow in any of

542
00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:51,880
my years doing this work.

543
00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:56,319
Speaker 2: And he wrote a lot of these Grand Place movies, right, yes, exactly.

544
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's involved with all these things like he I

545
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,599
think he wrote Anything once. Yeah, And that was the

546
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:02,519
one I really wanted to talk about because this movie

547
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:04,920
is really incredible, Like I want to know all about it.

548
00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:08,200
So the three movies that Grand Place directed or anything

549
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,880
Once Room and Broad and The Procurer and I wrote

550
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,680
liner notes for I think I think all three of

551
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,720
them for something weird. They were reaching the districtick stuff.

552
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,839
And that's when lare on IMDb. Lawrence Cohen, former Variety reviewer,

553
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,759
called me up by name and said I was a

554
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:26,440
shill for like hyping up this director who was terrible

555
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,440
and a piece of shit. And so when you guys

556
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,200
finally saw these movies and were like, Wow, Okay, these

557
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,839
are really good, it lifted up so much baggage connected

558
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,519
to the Grand Place name. Because for years I was like, well,

559
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,240
maybe I'm delusional because I raged about these movies because

560
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,200
I wanted people to watch them, and this Variety critic

561
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,559
said that I was a piece of shit. Then I

562
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,680
was wrong. But the fact that you guys whose taste

563
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,000
I trust, agree with me makes him feel so much better.

564
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:59,079
It lifted all the baggage off the Grand Place name.

565
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,480
So I'm ready to go back into Grand Place land

566
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:04,559
because he's and I want I'd like to know if

567
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,319
he was responsible for all the other stuff that he's

568
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,720
credited for on IMDb, like the Men of Black Films.

569
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:10,319
I don't know if that's the Grand Place that we

570
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:10,799
know or not.

571
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:14,519
Speaker 2: So yeah, I saw those credits. I was just like,

572
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:16,880
this this is I don't know what to make of

573
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,839
all this. This is just so much we need to sort.

574
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,079
Speaker 5: And there's another Grand Place that's not connected. I'm like,

575
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,519
is that the same guy? So yeah, it needs more research.

576
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:26,200
But I kind of stopped because of the Don Walters

577
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,160
thing and the Lore thing. I was like, Okay, this

578
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:32,000
soured everything for me, and I'm just yeah, it's soured

579
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:34,160
it for me. Yeah, it's time to get back into

580
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:34,640
his stuff.

581
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: Alex, what are your thoughts?

582
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,759
Speaker 6: Oh God, I've already gone on so long about him

583
00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:40,359
and other ones. I feel like people are about to

584
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,720
be like really tired.

585
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,119
Speaker 5: People listening to find the Grand Place movie.

586
00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, well here's the thing. It is such absolute stable.

587
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,839
Here's well, here's why again, Gentry. And then also until

588
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,640
Casey mentioned it like two months ago, I'd never really

589
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,799
heard about these either, except for like slightly in passing

590
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,759
because there's some of the most obscure year is something

591
00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:06,759
weird exploitation releases. They're some of the most nightmarish wants

592
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:11,960
to find because they're in that distripix like Sam Lake catalog.

593
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,759
Speaker 5: Yep, and a lot of five years ago.

594
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of those have been nightmarish too, fine, Yeah,

595
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,880
even compared like the Harry No About catalog was around

596
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,759
for a lot longer, a lot of the other ones

597
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,279
were available for a lot longer. So like, besides things

598
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:27,880
like the playpen that were so quickly ceased and desisted,

599
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:31,279
those are like, without doubt, some of the the rarest

600
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,920
something weird releases in terms of exploitation.

601
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I was watching anything once I had

602
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:38,880
to pause it. I was just I was so upset.

603
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:41,960
I was just like, I've never heard of this, this

604
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:45,279
is so far out of print. We need to we

605
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:48,359
need to talk to certain somebody like, yeah.

606
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,079
Speaker 5: I know, well, especially because it's It's, It's it is,

607
00:29:52,119 --> 00:29:54,720
it's a no brainer triple It's three films by the

608
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,359
same director and all the same creative people involved too,

609
00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:01,720
and Distripis actually has a relationship with Don Walters, and

610
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,519
Stephen has said he's going to try to fix things

611
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:06,079
between the two of us. He says he probably doesn't

612
00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:08,960
even remember, and I'm like, well, you know, the North

613
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,680
doesn't forget. I remember, so you know, I please break

614
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,319
bread with this guy because he directed one of my

615
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,559
all time favorite no he wrote one of my all

616
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:18,319
time favorite sexploitation movies.

617
00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:20,359
Speaker 2: And that's that's.

618
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 5: Important to me. That movie made such an impact on

619
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,440
me because I thought it was one of the situations

620
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,480
like Alex, you think you've seen everything, and then he

621
00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:31,200
stumbled upon this, and I'm like, oh my god, why.

622
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,079
Speaker 2: Isn't this better known?

623
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,559
Speaker 5: What it's you know, you wait through so much shit

624
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:37,839
and it's just like wow, Okay, people were still like

625
00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:41,200
delivering stuff at the tail end of softcore. Yeah, and

626
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,200
the nags are there, exactly all there, exactly.

627
00:30:44,839 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 6: Beautiful yeah, beautiful elements.

628
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,519
Speaker 5: Kristen Steen is the Charthard Procure. She's still around. Let's

629
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,480
let's interview her.

630
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,519
Speaker 2: We have leads on two of the people.

631
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 5: From Anything once, so let's get them involved.

632
00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, I I yeah. I There aren't enough

634
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,319
distripicts releases of the black and white stuff on the

635
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:10,799
schedule that to please my soul, so I would love

636
00:31:10,839 --> 00:31:12,559
for that to be the next one. I don't care

637
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:14,880
how I don't think. I don't care that there's no

638
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,160
name people involved. I think if you push it hard enough,

639
00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:20,480
and we can help push it hard enough, I think

640
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:22,720
then I think people would give them a chance. For sure,

641
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,799
we already are exactly We're telling everybody to watch these

642
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,200
goddamn movies. I know, go watch them. You will not

643
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,000
be disappointed.

644
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:33,759
Speaker 2: Don't listen to lore. I was right.

645
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:38,279
Speaker 5: I think I feel so vindicated. Okay, that was a

646
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:39,759
major that was a major thing for me.

647
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 6: Well, he was wrong, like a bunch of other ones,

648
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,440
like I went into this sport in house thinking it

649
00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:46,799
think it was gonna be really bad, and I'm like, wait,

650
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:49,079
you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, or he doesn't

651
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,119
like stuff too.

652
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he doesn't like stuff. He does also doesn't

653
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:57,599
like when films aim higher than this exploitation. And then

654
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,960
he's like yeah, he's like, well, this is supposed to

655
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,519
be sexy and it's not sexy. I'm like, okay, thank

656
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:07,400
you nineteen seventies mindset, like you know, yeah, well you

657
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:08,480
and I know, we all know.

658
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,799
Speaker 2: That the said Linda Boyce and Uda ericson sex scene

659
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:14,759
was not sexy. Is that what you're saying? Is that

660
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:16,599
what he wrote in the review? Well, I'm asking you

661
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,519
he said it. You said something about he didn't think

662
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:19,119
it was sexy.

663
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:22,319
Speaker 5: The shower sea was not typically typically who was about

664
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:24,599
something because he said he describes it he still called

665
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:26,759
softcore porn. I mean that's how old school he is.

666
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,240
So yeah, he said this is porn. This is supposed

667
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:29,759
to be erotic.

668
00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 2: All right, Anyways, it is fine.

669
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,079
Speaker 5: But also it's softcore and it's a different time, like

670
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:35,880
not everything is gonna match.

671
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 6: Ironically, those scenes are decently erotically charged too, like they're good, right,

672
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,559
a good.

673
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 5: Story and there's so much good story in acting around

674
00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:50,079
it anyway, So even if the sex isn't good, it'll

675
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:52,119
events will be over and you move on to good

676
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,119
stuff in the movie too.

677
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah more stay tuned on that. Yeah,

678
00:32:57,319 --> 00:32:59,400
we will keep pounding that drum.

679
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,519
Speaker 5: Yes, I trust us for sure.

680
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,119
Speaker 4: Yeah.

681
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,599
Speaker 2: Let me do a quick personal promo here. I was

682
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,880
on If you follow us on the Instagram, the s

683
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,559
and Syndicate, you may have seen. I was on the

684
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:16,559
in Film We Trust podcast and just like Casey's doing

685
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:19,200
a solo commentary. It was kind of weird not having

686
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:23,119
him there, just kidding, you wouldn't want me there because

687
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:24,559
I would not have been that kind of No. I

688
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:27,519
didn't want yes, exactly, I didn't want you there. You're

689
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:30,920
in your safe space, right. I talked about my favorite

690
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,480
film lore. Yeah. So my Scottish, my new Scottish friend Liam.

691
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:38,799
I had messaged him a while back about maybe doing

692
00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:41,319
something because I was really impressed with his podcast. I

693
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:44,599
listened to a few episodes, and you know, he takes it.

694
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,480
He's not just like watching these movies and you know,

695
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,160
surface level, making little jokes and moving on with his

696
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,920
life like, he looks at him pretty closely, and I

697
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:59,359
knew he would give Laura respectful analysis, which he absolutely did,

698
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,920
and I thought, I think it was a good episode.

699
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,400
And of course, any chance I get to talk about

700
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,199
Annie Bell, and if it's not completely obvious yet, I

701
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,599
am writing a book about Annie Bell, and that's kind

702
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:14,760
of out in the open now, so uh yeah, I'm

703
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,400
still trying to get the word out and I'm hoping

704
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,760
some dream publisher just contacts me and we can move forward.

705
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,559
But until then, I'm still just, yeah, just working on

706
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:26,519
the book as much as I can, and hopefully we

707
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:29,559
can do something down the road with it that's not

708
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,559
involving me putting up all the money and self publishing

709
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:33,119
it myself.

710
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 5: So anyway from Mark Murray, have you talked to Mark Murray?

711
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: Right, I've looked into what he's done, Yes, but I

712
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,000
have not spoken to him. So I will talk to him, Yes,

713
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:45,679
you should.

714
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,079
Speaker 5: He's very quick to help. He's yeah, and that already

715
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:50,760
read more book was a massive labor of love, and

716
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,920
so it's ver I can see a similar similar drive

717
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,559
and passion there, So I think you should talk to

718
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:56,119
him about that.

719
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the more I look into like book publishing.

720
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,039
You know, I told you me Richie this as well.

721
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:03,360
I'm like, I can't even believe you're a Manuel. Book

722
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,280
got published, like you should be very proud of that.

723
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,440
It's kind of a miracle that, you know, you got

724
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,079
this giant hardcover book with tons of nudity in it

725
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:17,280
published like this is hard to do nowadays. Publishers are

726
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:19,639
not that adventurous.

727
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 5: So well, also, we already talked to somebody who is

728
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,280
launching their own publishing arm named Michael Bowen.

729
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: Yes, Michael Bowen first, and I know, I was like, hey,

730
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,960
do you want to I was like, no, he's got

731
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,320
to do his first.

732
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 5: Yes, let him do all three first, and then he

733
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,559
needs to keep yeah, keep the line going right.

734
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, there was a my friend Maddie. She released

735
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,639
a little handcrafted zine called Skuro. She's been doing that.

736
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,599
She did it a while back, but she's kind of returned.

737
00:35:56,199 --> 00:35:56,639
Speaker 6: To it.

738
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 2: Because of all the whole Ice situation in Minneapolis and

739
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,639
so all the proceeds go to immigrant rights organizations here locally.

740
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,599
I contributed a piece about So she asked me to

741
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:14,000
contribute a piece about like your favorite movie going experience

742
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:17,519
in Minnesota and so I just whipped up something. I

743
00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:19,920
was like, oh wait, this isn't exactly my favorite, but

744
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,760
it was a fun story about going to see Event

745
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,880
Horizon with my dad when I was ten years old.

746
00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:30,199
Speaker 5: Oh so, oh wait, Gentry, I just did the math

747
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:30,880
on how old you are?

748
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I was like, this is gonna help me,

749
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,280
isn't it.

750
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 5: Well, you know, not to bring things down. How are

751
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,199
things in Minneapolis in.

752
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: That regard right now?

753
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 5: Because I feel like we're not getting the full picture

754
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,719
because there's all sorts of other shit going so much

755
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,800
shit going on everywhere else.

756
00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they have dialed it back, but they're

757
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,559
still around.

758
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

759
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:56,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, these masked thugs are still running around, but they've

760
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,920
kind of changed their tactics a bit. They're trying to

761
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,639
like be a little bit more clandestine about it. They're

762
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,519
like posing as you know, ladies with their car broken

763
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:08,719
down so that they can saw that bullshit. Yeah you

764
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:09,159
saw that.

765
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, stuff like definitely being punished for being a good person. Yeah, terrible, absolutely,

766
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,639
absolutely trocious. Well that's very similar honestly to the idf

767
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,760
using sounds of crying babies. So there were people out

768
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,599
so they can shoot them. Yeah, it's it's all connected people.

769
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,320
You know, we don't get political on this podcast that frequently,

770
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,920
but yeah, it's all connected. We have a lot of

771
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,400
people above us that want us dead. So thank God

772
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,280
for us expectation, right, guys.

773
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 6: Right, right, And you know what is amazing, Gods, God,

774
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,760
blesser ruffies.

775
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 5: We can let that some frustration with these films, right.

776
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,039
Speaker 2: And what is amazing is that there are still rep

777
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,199
theaters like willing to program some of this stuff, like

778
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,639
the Beacon Theater in Seattle, Washington, which is gonna be

779
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:59,320
screening the movie we're about to talk about, Satan and

780
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:05,800
High Heels on Friday, February twenty seventh, and Jane Garrett, archivist, librarian,

781
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,400
author of A Bizarre Life, a biography of John Willie,

782
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,559
She's gonna be introing that. So that's amazing. If you

783
00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:16,719
can get out to that, you should definitely check it out.

784
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,960
I think this movie looked great on a big screen, absolutely,

785
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,880
and it's part of the it's part of the sex fest,

786
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,440
which is funny because this movie is not super I mean,

787
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:30,760
it's pretty chaste when you get down to it, but

788
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:31,719
well ver very much.

789
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 5: So yes, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think maybe that's

790
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,079
why we Maybe that's why Alex, when we were doing

791
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:39,840
the Q and All, we kind of forgot about that

792
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,679
in terms of film noir because we were also the

793
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,639
thinking of sexy movies that are noir, and this film

794
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,400
isn't sexy. It's just basically a noir with some like

795
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:52,960
naughtiness there along the edges of the frame if you

796
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:57,480
really look. Yes, and there's the queer themes, which is yeah,

797
00:38:57,519 --> 00:38:59,280
that's kind of what probably would have gotten the film

798
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,199
in trouble. There's there, it's not vividly explained.

799
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,639
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it, yeah, yeah, yeah, But Jane, I'm

800
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:08,559
sure she'll talk about you know, she's written a book

801
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:11,800
on John Willie and there is a John Willie connection

802
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,400
to this film, so yeah, I'm sure she'll be talking

803
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,239
about that in depth. Well, we'll talk about it a

804
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:44,239
little bit as well. So let's get right into it here.

805
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,519
Where do we want to start with Satan and High Heels. Well,

806
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:49,840
they'll start with the home video release history. That's a

807
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,199
good place to start, Casey.

808
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's just one of the first sexy shockers, which

809
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,960
is the Frank Kennon Laughter Banner, where it was a

810
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,639
film that was kind of like or horror adjacent or

811
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,320
like thrilling with.

812
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: Some sexy stuff.

813
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 5: So you know it was number Yeah, I don't know, Yeah,

814
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,719
I mean essentially, essentially there was enough naughtiness or adults

815
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,480
only content that they couldn't have put it in like

816
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:18,159
Johnny Legend's Untamed video. There's untamed video is where you

817
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:21,480
would have like exploitations movies like girl on a Chain

818
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,800
gang and and they actually they had that Runaway Girl

819
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,000
with Lily Saint Cyr, which is a little sexier that

820
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,480
that probably should have been another category. But this is

821
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:32,840
kind of a sexy soccer. I think Satan probably is

822
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,679
another reason why.

823
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:34,199
Speaker 2: They had it in there.

824
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, they just wanted to make sure that it was,

825
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,599
you know, put in the best category to get some

826
00:40:39,639 --> 00:40:40,159
eyes on it.

827
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 6: Yep.

828
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: And then the image DVD was what was it paired with?

829
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:47,280
It was with the Wild.

830
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,159
Speaker 5: It was on its own, and then Wild with the

831
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,639
Naked was like a bonus feature, your favorite thing.

832
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: The bonus feature came out the same year and the same.

833
00:40:57,119 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 5: Is so crazy to think that on the East Coast

834
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,119
we get some flex stating at high heels, then in

835
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:03,800
Texas we get totally insane shit like The Wild in

836
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:10,159
the naked, very very different mindsets. In nineteen sixty two Sexploitation, the.

837
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 6: Same thing with the Confessions of a Psycho cat relays.

838
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,280
Hot Blooded Woman is on that one. Yes, same year

839
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,679
from what the shit? What? Yes?

840
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:21,559
Speaker 5: Right, well, actually not technically same year, but yeah, I

841
00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:23,719
think the original was sixty five and then the rest

842
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,519
was sixty eight. Maybe I don't remember, so sixty four maybe, yeah, maybe,

843
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:30,639
but so different. Yeah, it's just and that's and that's

844
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,880
kind of funny. It's like I always like the bonus fees.

845
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,840
Just we're like, well, this is tangentially related, but so different.

846
00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: I do enjoy that. So there's a new restoration of

847
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,119
this by a certain somebody. So the future you have here,

848
00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:48,880
the future looks bleak for a reissue, that's true.

849
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:52,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry, I yeah, Well, honestly, the fact that it's

850
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:57,239
showing at Sexfest is at least promising because that means

851
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,719
that it's going to be back in the conversation. You

852
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440
can potentially book it for other rep screening so that

853
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,519
it can have more eyes on it. I think that's promising.

854
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:09,159
I think in terms of home video though, there's just

855
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:10,679
so many bridges that have been burned.

856
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,679
Speaker 6: I don't know who would, which sucks because we'll get

857
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,119
into this, but there's things we would love to see

858
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:20,159
related to this film. Why doesn't that would only see

859
00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:21,000
the land on home video?

860
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:24,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah's correct. How does this person start their own

861
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,119
home video label? They don't know what they're doing. They

862
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:30,719
put piss people off.

863
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:33,119
Speaker 6: That was the I'll just say that was the original

864
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,199
intent way back when. Yeah, I'm just going to say that.

865
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just got distracted or walls what they haven't

866
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:42,400
made a film in years.

867
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 6: No, they got excited about this, then they immediately got

868
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,119
excited about something else, like they always do.

869
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 5: Right. It was like it was, yes, a dangly keychain

870
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,400
of sex whitation and then up something else and then

871
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,039
leaving everyone else left behind picking up the pieces, but

872
00:42:57,159 --> 00:42:59,280
with no actual power or money to do anything with

873
00:42:59,320 --> 00:42:59,920
those pieces.

874
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,519
Speaker 2: Yeah not great? Yeah great. So that's if you'll listen.

875
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 5: To our disconnected show, you'll you'll know who we're talking.

876
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,000
Go back and listen to that.

877
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,519
Speaker 6: You know you know what, folks, thank YouTube again. Go

878
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:15,360
on to YouTube. Type in Satan High Heels twenty seventeen restoration.

879
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,880
It's right there, Yeah, he is right there.

880
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: Once again, you saving the day and it's not Ai upscaled.

881
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 6: No, no, no, this is from the negative. Yes, this

882
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,079
is a beautiful restoration from the NAG.

883
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the DVD already looked great, so it's it

884
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,800
could only be more stunning. I think the DVD is

885
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,480
a little darker, and then yeah, you just brighten it up.

886
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: With the with the restoration, for sure. Leonard Bertman, let's

887
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,440
talk about let's this is alex Is this is Alex's

888
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:48,440
zone here. I mean, so this is a name that

889
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,039
I'm trying to remember. Is his name in the credits?

890
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:51,679
Speaker 6: Yes?

891
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: As producer, Yes, so he is producer. He had a lot,

892
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,960
Oh we'll get into it, but he had quite a

893
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:03,119
bit to do with getting this picture made, even if

894
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:06,119
it didn't fully fit his vision. Is that an accurate way.

895
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:11,599
Speaker 6: To Yeah, this was pretty much Leonard's baby, which I'll

896
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:15,760
get into it. But also because his baby, I'm shocked

897
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,039
it is as tame as it is. Because Leonard Bertman

898
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,159
is best known for being none of the first pioneers,

899
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:27,199
but also like a pioneer in what would become our

900
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,920
now contemporary fetish culture, which I am now about to

901
00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:35,519
get into with this wonderful long history about him. But

902
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,119
he did a lot of stuff, folks. He did a

903
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:40,400
lot of stuff, so gay right into it. Leonard Bertman

904
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,199
was born August twenty in Columbus, Nebraska. Right off the bat,

905
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,280
his father already was a newspaper owner and editor. But

906
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,039
he did not go He did not follow father suit.

907
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:57,280
He went into electronics. His number one job tell that

908
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,440
most that has been found mostly is radio engineer. Most

909
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,079
interesting thing about him is that he was part of

910
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:08,079
one group of researcher staff who worked on the atom bomb.

911
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,280
He was in a what was it development of telemetering devices,

912
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,800
And then other papers like would take in and be

913
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,920
like he was so cleared he was a scientist. No

914
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,480
he was not, he was He was not a scientist

915
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:20,920
at all.

916
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: He's just working on a tiny piece of this gigantic project.

917
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, exactly. He's one team it admits many. But

918
00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:35,559
that started to go south when first he was charged

919
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,639
with theft and embezzlement of government property in nineteen forty

920
00:45:40,679 --> 00:45:44,719
four while working as a civilian radio technician at a

921
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,320
military base. Two years later, he was arrested again for

922
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,679
failing to report for military induction as local board aka

923
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,360
draft evasion. But I forget why, but because he was

924
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,159
working on other things at the time, he kind of

925
00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:02,159
had some good reason for not reporting. The US declined

926
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:07,360
to prosecute. But the final and worst one was an

927
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,920
arrest in nineteen forty nine for transporting stolen property, and

928
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,400
while he was under investigation for that, he was found

929
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,639
to have also been passing bad checks under an alias,

930
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,519
So he spent a year in federal prison for that.

931
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,800
So now you know he's completely unemployable in that profession.

932
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,159
I do not know when he no, it says sorry.

933
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:38,639
He then actually switched courses and became a girly photographer

934
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,519
in New York City starting around in nineteen fifty one,

935
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,639
and right off the bat began to freelance for some

936
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:52,880
notable people, most Irving Claw in particular, and a publisher

937
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,519
named Robert Harrison who was behind a lot of the

938
00:46:56,559 --> 00:47:01,159
early fifties little cheesecake magazines like Beauty Parade, Wink Flirt,

939
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,760
those really innocent ones. And he and he even got

940
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,519
to photograph Betty Page as well quite a few times.

941
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, let me ask you this, Alex, So, this

942
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,960
is a guy I just got out of prison and

943
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,199
he's working with Irving Claw, Like, do you think Irving

944
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,880
Claw knew his background at all, because I feel like

945
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,800
Irving Claude would have been trying to keep his own

946
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,159
nose clean. And he's associated with this.

947
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,679
Speaker 6: Well, he was also in prison for something so different.

948
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,960
This wasn't like any obscenity or or something like that,

949
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:36,039
like like this was military related stolen property. Yeah, I

950
00:47:36,039 --> 00:47:38,719
guess uh for the most part.

951
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 5: So I think people in that industry, if they were

952
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:46,800
I feel like it's some of these, some of these,

953
00:47:47,079 --> 00:47:49,119
this industry was kind of a place where people on

954
00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:52,599
the outskirts of society could feel a little bit of safety.

955
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true.

956
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 5: I don't think he's I don't think anybody's judging anybody

957
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,840
for their previous criminal record unless it's like murder or

958
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,199
rape or something about children. Yeah, something like this, like whatever.

959
00:48:03,039 --> 00:48:08,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, good, all good. Yeah, but his life becomes but

960
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,880
his life becomes very interesting while living in New York City.

961
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,360
And I'm so it's so sad that he twist of fate.

962
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,559
He was a workaholic. He died as work desk in

963
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:23,280
eighty nine. It's so ghastly that he did die because

964
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:26,320
we have no idea what kind of a person he

965
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:30,440
was outside of his work and things like that. We

966
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,679
can only infer based on some of the people he

967
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:39,320
began to socialize at this time, one of them being

968
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:47,000
John Willie who who published the groundbreaking fetish publication Bizarre,

969
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:50,639
beginning in nineteen forty five and was also behind almost

970
00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:55,000
all the illustrations in that and Bizarre was very groundbreaking.

971
00:48:55,079 --> 00:48:57,880
That was a yeah, that was the first type of

972
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:03,679
fetish culture type publication back in those days. Bizarre was

973
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,280
synonymous with the word fetish, and that was very groundbreaking.

974
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,239
It wasn't just like for pourin interest. It had all

975
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,480
sorts of fascinating articles on like why people are into

976
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,159
certain things and stuff and such like that. Tashin put

977
00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:20,159
out a really great three volume collection back in the nineties.

978
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,079
You could still find is a really fascinating publication to read.

979
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,880
So yeah, that is his John Willy affiliation. And then

980
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,280
also besides John Willy, he was also pals with a

981
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,599
man named Charles Gayete. Charles Gayette started was a costumer

982
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:42,800
for burlesque and strippers and also designed a lot of

983
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,239
more leathery fetish oriented things. He also did mail order

984
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,599
for these types of outfits. So he was the pioneer

985
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,639
in in like what contemporary fetish outfit like designs and

986
00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:01,119
things that we see today. Charles Gayet pioneered that stuff

987
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:06,320
based on in the US, like this was fascism was

988
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,559
kind of more of a thing in France before this time,

989
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:12,320
but not really in America yet. These people kind of

990
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:17,199
really brought this idea into America. And then around this

991
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,440
time the third man was also going to be very

992
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,679
important to him. Is his is what became his longtime

993
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:26,679
business partner, who was himself an exper lesque club owner

994
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:32,760
and smut peddler named Benedict Himmel. So in nineteen eighty four,

995
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,519
he and Benedict nineteen eighty four, wow, okay, fifty four,

996
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:44,440
he and Himmel began stor a publishing company called Burmel,

997
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:52,880
and their first magazine was really mostly inspired by Bizarre

998
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:56,440
and Charles Guyet's work, and also this UK publication at

999
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,679
the time called Fads and Fancies that was also a

1000
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:04,239
kind of bizarre public They started they Digest meg Exotica,

1001
00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:08,960
which then became Exotique, which, yeah, it was pretty much

1002
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:14,480
Bizarre with some slightly kinkier illustrations. I'm trying to remember.

1003
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:17,280
Gen I think Gene Bilberw did a lot of illustrations

1004
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,039
for this one, and this was the beginning of their affiliation.

1005
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,199
Speaker 2: Is it a mix of illustrations and.

1006
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 7: Photographs, illustrations all illustrations, illustrations and a lot of text

1007
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,400
there was also Chashon also did a great three volume

1008
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,360
collection of this one too, so you can also get

1009
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,480
this one which then changed to Exatique and yeah, I

1010
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:43,679
had artwork from notable fetish illustrators like Jean Bill Brew

1011
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:48,360
and then at this time he was also publishing illustrated

1012
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,559
fetish fiction booklets with which were like, you know, sixteen

1013
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:57,039
to like thirty six, little stories of like oh you

1014
00:51:57,079 --> 00:51:58,639
crossed me, I need to tie you up and beat

1015
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:02,039
you and that's like just that's all it is, with

1016
00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:05,079
like yeah, one page attacks and a page and an

1017
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:08,599
illustration to go with it, which was illustrated by both

1018
00:52:08,679 --> 00:52:11,559
Bill Brew and also other.

1019
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 6: Notable illustrator Eric Stanton as well. Unfortunately, though, Burmel folded

1020
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,360
by nineteen fifty nine because of increased legal harassment, culminating

1021
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:27,599
in Bertman and Himmel being found guilty of possession of

1022
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:31,320
obscene booklets with intent to sell because I mean, these

1023
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,280
booklets could not go past like the three point thing,

1024
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,880
like they only pander to people's parading interests, Like, there

1025
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,000
was absolutely no bones about it. So also, these things

1026
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,079
were so expensive back in the day. I think at

1027
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:48,320
least like two bucks or something like that. These were

1028
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,360
so pricey to get your hands on. So also they

1029
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,400
are incredibly rare, so good luck, good luck finding any

1030
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,480
of them. Some people have put up old scans and

1031
00:52:56,519 --> 00:53:00,400
things like that, but yeah, very hard to find. So, yeah,

1032
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,000
the conviction was overturned. But that folded. But they weren't

1033
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,599
going to stop there. Nineteen sixty they began with Selby

1034
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:16,480
Associates and they did continue with their fetish digesized publications.

1035
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,599
Also Gain two. There's this awful thing that they did

1036
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:24,960
where they would put out these little booklets. They would

1037
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,840
have a fantastic illustration by Eric Stanton or Bill brew

1038
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,880
and then all inside it was photographs, no artwork, just photographs.

1039
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,880
But at this point they decided to go a bit

1040
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,159
bigger than just these little digest publications. They expanded into

1041
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,119
more mainstream, full sized girly slicks, which were getting very

1042
00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:51,840
popular by that time. But you know, them being them,

1043
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:55,679
they kind of leaned into the closest things they could

1044
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:00,559
to fetishism. At this time, there were cheese himegazcenes that

1045
00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:05,679
focus on nude women in high heels or in pantyhose

1046
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,599
and things like that, but still very innocent. So they

1047
00:54:09,639 --> 00:54:13,639
started to get into those, but their publications just always

1048
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:17,519
had a bit of a kinkier bent compared to those

1049
00:54:17,519 --> 00:54:22,280
other ones, like the photos are a little bit shadier looking.

1050
00:54:23,039 --> 00:54:25,760
A lot of the women will be in more elaborate

1051
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:32,239
pieces like like knee high leather boots, you know, fishnets,

1052
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,000
stuff and such, And they would also have articles about

1053
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:40,719
like what's the interest in heels, what's the interest in this?

1054
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,639
In this? And that? So some of their ones like

1055
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:49,840
here's one leg show dedicated to lovely legs. They also

1056
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,800
had high heels which is another big one. This is

1057
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,719
a little cash and one but stocking parade, which was

1058
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,920
mostly just recycled photos. And they also have some like

1059
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:04,559
fetish fiction that was also illustrated by Standing or Bill Brew,

1060
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,280
humorous soul stories about like someone who is, I don't know,

1061
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:12,440
obsessed with stockings or obsessed with heels and things like that.

1062
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,079
Speaker 2: Is there ever in these at this point, is there

1063
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,960
ever photographs with like a man even like a man's

1064
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:23,400
hand in it? Is that like off limits?

1065
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 6: Know what there is, And what I was about to

1066
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:34,760
get into is that Bertman also started to tap into

1067
00:55:35,159 --> 00:55:40,880
and highlight cross dressing and transsexualism as well. He had

1068
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:47,400
publications such as Female Mimics that highlighted professional cross dressers.

1069
00:55:47,679 --> 00:55:49,960
I don't have the issue of high heels, but there

1070
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,920
was an issue of high Heels about like why men

1071
00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:57,320
cross dress as well and stuff like that. I think

1072
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,000
he was one of the first to start doing that

1073
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:05,320
as well. Well wow, yeah, uh huh. So that's that's

1074
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,559
what makes me wish we knew more about Bertman, because

1075
00:56:09,639 --> 00:56:13,159
he really seems to be in like you really wouldn't

1076
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,440
probably put out a magazine like Female Mimics unless you

1077
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:19,840
were somewhat into and or passionate about it. And then

1078
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,840
also he also had like another magazine all about strippers

1079
00:56:23,039 --> 00:56:26,880
Love Strippers as well too, and yeah, and this was

1080
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:31,119
when they were really at their their height. Yeah, nineteen

1081
00:56:31,159 --> 00:56:34,639
sixty two was like their best year. And also what's

1082
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:38,559
expectation people will love about them is that oftentimes in

1083
00:56:38,599 --> 00:56:44,119
these magazines stay photographed. So many of our favorite gals

1084
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:50,440
in these megs, who were some of them? GV Darlene right, Well, actually, no,

1085
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:56,559
I have Mary O'Hara as Mary O'Hara I have, I

1086
00:56:56,639 --> 00:56:59,880
have the Bennett Twins. Don's actually looking great.

1087
00:57:02,199 --> 00:57:03,159
Speaker 2: Someone photographed her.

1088
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 6: Well there's Mary Harrah. Oh yeah, yeah, great Mary.

1089
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:09,679
Speaker 5: I wish she did more.

1090
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 6: That's fantastic, right, they did gg Darlene. Interestingly enough, GG

1091
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:22,280
Darlene's name in the spread that I found is either

1092
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:27,039
leonor Ryan or leonor Ryan Hart is how she's credited,

1093
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,280
interestingly enough. And then and then who else? Oh yeah,

1094
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,639
Jackie Richards I've seen as well, rich Buda Erickson and

1095
00:57:35,719 --> 00:57:39,159
Linda Boyce later on, really they kept.

1096
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 5: Going into like the late sixties.

1097
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, Bertman continued in various capacities all the way

1098
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,840
into the eighties were his absolute hey day. But later on,

1099
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,119
when he started to make less money stuff, he had

1100
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:58,440
to team up with Ruben Sturman, who really, oh god, yeah,

1101
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,719
that was not a great time because he was really

1102
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:08,920
restricted and gat into like hardcore pornography and yeah yeah yeah.

1103
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:10,960
So unfortunately that's also where I think a lot of

1104
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:18,159
this artwork has disappeared to wherever Leonard Bergman's stuff ended up. Yeah, yeah,

1105
00:58:18,199 --> 00:58:21,400
so so as as much as yeah, so, as long

1106
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,960
as his career was after the sixties, it just wasn't

1107
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,239
as pleasant. He wasn't making a lot of money. He

1108
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,679
kept on trying to keep in line with what he

1109
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:31,599
was doing and put out so many one shot magazines

1110
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:34,519
that just went nowhere by the age who was very

1111
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:37,719
notorious for taking magazines that didn't sell, putting new covers

1112
00:58:37,719 --> 00:58:39,840
on them, and just trying to shove them out back

1113
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,679
to try and make more money. Yeah. And and I

1114
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:47,159
think that's fascinating about him is that he shot a

1115
00:58:47,239 --> 00:58:49,679
lot of photos of a lot of these photos in

1116
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,159
his own apartment. I put in the show notes his

1117
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:56,000
his the bar at the end of his living room

1118
00:58:56,159 --> 00:58:58,599
is one of the most notorious features that you'll see

1119
00:58:58,679 --> 00:59:03,119
if you see that bar, yeah, which I think I

1120
00:59:03,159 --> 00:59:04,960
have like one of Jackie rich winds in front of

1121
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,519
isn't Yes.

1122
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:10,719
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm like, wait a minute, I look at

1123
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:11,119
that picture.

1124
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:12,679
Speaker 5: I'm like, wait, I just saw that.

1125
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:14,719
Speaker 6: Uh huh.

1126
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:16,559
Speaker 2: That's so great. I see.

1127
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 5: This is when I love, like, like when I watched

1128
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,239
the movies with Doris apartments, I'm like, God, the style

1129
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:24,639
and the decor, and now this guy obviously had a

1130
00:59:24,679 --> 00:59:26,599
great apartment loves showing it off.

1131
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 8: Uh huh.

1132
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:33,119
Speaker 6: And interestingly enough, I think he might have been behind

1133
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:39,159
the publishing company BB Sales Co. Which published the Olympic

1134
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:47,320
Photo Readers, which was mostly exploitation novel illustrated sexploitation novelizations.

1135
00:59:48,199 --> 00:59:52,599
But there's a handful of illustrate books that they put

1136
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:56,960
out which are not from sexploitation films, and having seen

1137
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,440
some of the photos in some of them, there's quite

1138
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,679
a few picks of letter Burtman's apartment in them. And

1139
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:09,199
also all the Almoso saw the advertisements in Bertman's magazines

1140
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,559
were for other in house publications. It's very fascinating. Even

1141
01:00:12,599 --> 01:00:15,199
in these more straight ones. He was also like advertising

1142
01:00:15,239 --> 01:00:17,559
the fact that he was pointing out things like female mimics.

1143
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,760
So if you're in the closet you got one of these.

1144
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,400
They really opened up a whole new world to you.

1145
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,079
But they have ads for ABB sales as well. However,

1146
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:35,920
they're selling photographs, in this case burlesque stars. However, I

1147
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,480
have not in all the other men's magazines, I have

1148
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:43,039
not found any ads for BB sales anywhere else. And

1149
01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:45,599
like I said, most of Bertman's ads were for other

1150
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:49,000
in house things. That's what makes me think he might

1151
01:00:49,039 --> 01:00:51,559
have been behind He was likely behind BB sales Co.

1152
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:54,440
And also that would have been an early Stirman affiliation

1153
01:00:54,519 --> 01:01:01,760
because those were distributed by Ruben's brother, Joe Sturman, right, yes, yeah,

1154
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,360
right before he sold off everything to Ruben. Uh right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1155
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,559
Joe was behind Yeah, it wasn't Ruben who was behind

1156
01:01:08,599 --> 01:01:11,599
all those crazy paperbacks like Satan Press and stuff like that. That

1157
01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:13,800
was actually Jay Sermon, right exactly.

1158
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 5: I forget, I forget of the Sermon brothers. I know

1159
01:01:16,079 --> 01:01:18,360
everything about Ruben, but I forget that was part of

1160
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,480
that NIX for Joe.

1161
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,719
Speaker 6: Joe hated being in it. He couldn't wait to take

1162
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,719
over his father's led foundry. He hated the industry, he

1163
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:29,239
hated the fact that his family was being harassed all

1164
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,920
this stuff. So the second he could take over his

1165
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,119
father's business, he sold everything to Ruben and wiped his

1166
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:39,639
hands of it in the late sixties early seventies. I

1167
01:01:39,719 --> 01:01:42,960
want to say I also wanted. I also have to

1168
01:01:43,039 --> 01:01:48,159
say that almost all this information I got I could

1169
01:01:48,239 --> 01:01:52,599
not have gotten without the work and research of Richard

1170
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:58,440
perez Sev, who pretty much has been working tirelessly to

1171
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:02,280
preserve not only this man's history, but also artists like

1172
01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:05,960
Eric Stanton Geane Bill Brew. He just put a book

1173
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,440
by John Willie. All of his stuff is absolutely fantastic.

1174
01:02:09,519 --> 01:02:13,280
You should go support him. Check out his site fetistory

1175
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,679
dot com. A lot of this came from an article

1176
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:23,320
that he published in by n w R, probably one

1177
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,199
of the best articles on there, which is called let

1178
01:02:26,239 --> 01:02:28,480
me just quickly get the name because it is an

1179
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:35,559
incredible read, Bizarre Life Leonard Berkman, the reinvention of sexploitation magazines. Yeah,

1180
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:38,360
almost all this information I summarize comes from him, So

1181
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,239
credit to Richard. Please go support him. He's doing fantastic

1182
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,519
work and also stuff publishing all of his stuff. I

1183
01:02:44,519 --> 01:02:47,079
don't know how he does it. He's doing incredible stuff.

1184
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: He's a big Jackie Richards fan as well.

1185
01:02:50,719 --> 01:02:52,719
Speaker 5: Did he just do the new the Jackie Richards book

1186
01:02:52,719 --> 01:02:55,039
that came out, Yeah, uh huh ah.

1187
01:02:55,519 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 2: Which I still need to order, but I think it's

1188
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,719
supposed to be yeah, multiple volumes, I think yes.

1189
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,159
Speaker 6: And he has been occasionally also reprinting some of these

1190
01:03:04,679 --> 01:03:08,559
illustrated fiction stories by Eric Stanton as well too, So

1191
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:10,360
you don't have to shell out like three hundred dollars

1192
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:11,400
for one of these booklets.

1193
01:03:11,559 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 2: They're affordable fifteen dollars you can get.

1194
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:19,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's Richard and his little biography is like like

1195
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:21,760
on Jean Bill Brew and Eric Stanton, they are so

1196
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,880
them are just beautiful illustrations.

1197
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,639
Speaker 2: We should have him on, honestly.

1198
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 6: Lorgeous illustrations. We have to have him on. Yeah, we

1199
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:31,239
have also and then.

1200
01:03:31,079 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 5: I forgot to mention we should also have Jane on honestly,

1201
01:03:33,679 --> 01:03:37,760
like yeah, I mean, yes, they're obviously tied into sex

1202
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,639
whitation very vividly in both Yeah, in both cases.

1203
01:03:41,599 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely. However, we have no idea why because once again, Lenny,

1204
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:52,760
you had to die. But in nineteen sixty he pursued

1205
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,719
the idea of making a feature film, which.

1206
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:57,519
Speaker 2: So he's at his height. This is like when he's

1207
01:03:57,519 --> 01:03:59,960
at his cheek, right, so he probably had like money,

1208
01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:03,360
He's just like, okay, let's like, let's let's do something,

1209
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:03,960
let's invest.

1210
01:04:04,079 --> 01:04:06,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, he started to get interested, well, he started to

1211
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:09,239
just get interested in the idea of becoming a producer.

1212
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:12,559
I'm trailing a hell a little bit, but he Yeah,

1213
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:15,400
he started to set himself up as a producer. He

1214
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:19,440
seemed to have aspirations of getting farther into into that,

1215
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:24,880
starting with Satan in High Heels. Now, a lot around

1216
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,840
this film is unknown right off the bat, the person

1217
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,800
who created the story was not Leonard Berkman. Interestingly enough,

1218
01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:35,760
I would have expected Lenny to have been all around

1219
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,519
like we have to have this, we have to have that,

1220
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:40,760
all these different f's into and things like that. But no.

1221
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:45,159
The story came from a pulp fiction writer named Harold

1222
01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:49,280
Bonnett who wrote for the pulp magazines in the nineteen thirties.

1223
01:04:50,119 --> 01:04:52,760
Hated doing it, apparently he just did it for the money,

1224
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,480
very negative memories about doing this stuff, and then afterwards

1225
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:02,280
did a few odd writing jobs, of which was writing

1226
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:06,800
some stories for a friend of his. And he did

1227
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,920
do an interview where he talks about Satan in High Heels,

1228
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,880
So I'm just going to read that out from his

1229
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,840
own words. In the sixties, a publisher friend of mine

1230
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,840
asked me to do several paperbacks for him, which I

1231
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,639
did using a pseudonym. Eventually, he and some partners got

1232
01:05:23,679 --> 01:05:26,719
ambitious and decided to produce a movie. I have no

1233
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:27,920
idea who this friend.

1234
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:28,159
Speaker 2: Is, folks.

1235
01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:31,119
Speaker 6: He told me he liked my action stories and asked

1236
01:05:31,159 --> 01:05:33,480
if I could would do would like to do an

1237
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,039
original story for them? A slam Bank cops and robberts

1238
01:05:37,239 --> 01:05:39,079
thing to be shot in the streets of New York.

1239
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:42,880
I said, okay. I wrote the story, which was called

1240
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:47,440
Satan High Heels, delivered it, got paid. He liked the story.

1241
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,039
Everyone was happy. After the movie was well long toward

1242
01:05:51,079 --> 01:05:53,519
being completed, I happened to be in New York and

1243
01:05:53,559 --> 01:05:56,400
I dropped around to see how things were coming. I

1244
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,960
picked up a copy of the shooting script and glanced

1245
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,360
at it a closer look. My god, I exclaimed. What happened.

1246
01:06:04,079 --> 01:06:07,440
The producer shrugged his shoulders. We decided that maybe this

1247
01:06:07,559 --> 01:06:10,599
wasn't the best time for another chase type film. Art

1248
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,440
stuff is coming in a few nude scenes, that sort

1249
01:06:13,519 --> 01:06:17,159
of thing, which true. I looked at the script again.

1250
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:19,519
These characters they don't even seem to be the ones

1251
01:06:19,559 --> 01:06:23,159
I wrote about. They're not. We did keep your title, though.

1252
01:06:23,679 --> 01:06:25,880
Other than that, the script writer just sort of winned

1253
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,840
it as he went along. Most people don't really understand

1254
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,519
art movies anyway. Don't put my name on it, I

1255
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,559
told him too late. Even the record album of the

1256
01:06:35,679 --> 01:06:38,119
music from the show has a jacket printed with your

1257
01:06:38,159 --> 01:06:41,360
story as the author of the original story.

1258
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,679
Speaker 5: So the man Jahn T.

1259
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,519
Speaker 6: Chapman, who's credited as a screenplay is obviously the one

1260
01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:52,159
who change it into what it became. Strangely enough, however,

1261
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:56,119
Bonnett would go on to pen the novelization for the

1262
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:59,760
film as Noel Candler. Probably again, I am a question,

1263
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:02,559
that's the thing. That's the thing.

1264
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:05,599
Speaker 5: And they didn't print the jacket of the album before

1265
01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:06,679
the movie was finished.

1266
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:08,199
Speaker 2: That's nonsense.

1267
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 5: It's a low bunch of movie and not buying it,

1268
01:07:11,719 --> 01:07:14,280
not buying a gea so exactly.

1269
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,719
Speaker 6: And also, I don't think his great grandson, who's still around,

1270
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,079
thinks that he was just writing little stories for this guy.

1271
01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:26,480
I don't think he's writing actual paperbacks because no one,

1272
01:07:26,599 --> 01:07:29,840
no one, no one hires a person to write paperbacks

1273
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,599
and doesn't do anything with them. I can't find any

1274
01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:35,679
of these supposed paperbacks. That makes absolutely no sense. He

1275
01:07:35,719 --> 01:07:38,679
probably just was writing stories or treatments or something for

1276
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,360
those guys. The one good thing is that his son,

1277
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,000
Walter Bonnet, who was pursuing acting at the time, he

1278
01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:49,639
managed to get him in as the pianist George. Only

1279
01:07:49,719 --> 01:07:50,800
good really good thing about this.

1280
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,559
Speaker 5: So wait, and that sounds like he was a little

1281
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:55,559
more involved with production than too if he got his

1282
01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:56,400
son again.

1283
01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 6: Exactly, come on, come on now, Yeah, leonard Is is

1284
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,639
in a brief shot in the plane.

1285
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:05,239
Speaker 2: So like, both of these guys are like, they're yeah,

1286
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,480
they're both pretty involved in the film, at least they.

1287
01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 5: Definitely is. Bonnett, though, is trying to bond a writer

1288
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,199
wouldn't be on the set of the movie anyway, but

1289
01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:18,960
he's trying to separate himself from this project. I don't

1290
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:19,439
know why.

1291
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:21,079
Speaker 2: Maybe because when he told.

1292
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,079
Speaker 5: The story, he was after the movie's reputation was in

1293
01:08:24,159 --> 01:08:26,920
the gutter. So he's just like, eh, you know, I

1294
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,279
think it'd been a bigger hit and better loved. I

1295
01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:31,199
think he probably would have put it on his resume.

1296
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 1: You know what I need is some fresh air and

1297
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:43,479
a man. Larry isn't a man, then I'll make him one.

1298
01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 6: Now Again, there's so much that I don't know. I

1299
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,800
only have nuggets about this thing, as you guys will see.

1300
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:53,399
Speaker 5: But let's actually sorry, before you get into intrader I

1301
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:57,239
just remember Benedette Himmel is credited on this movie as well,

1302
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:03,479
so he even brought in his publishing his other long

1303
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:04,800
time publisher partner into it.

1304
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 6: In some way, he can produce me right, Yes, I forgot.

1305
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:09,520
Speaker 5: That's interesting.

1306
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 6: I forgot.

1307
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 5: So it really is the work of like these these

1308
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:16,439
publishing moguls.

1309
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,359
Speaker 6: Yes, and also because their magazines began to tease the

1310
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:24,239
film before it came out as well, too, very smart, okay,

1311
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,680
like like it like the first issue of High Heels

1312
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:32,960
had a special on like saying in High Heels though

1313
01:09:33,039 --> 01:09:35,680
under a working title Parent of Evil. Oddly enough, I'll

1314
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:36,239
get into that.

1315
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:41,239
Speaker 5: It's weird because yeah, we'll talk about the later movie.

1316
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 6: Very very odd. But yeah, we should get into Gerald

1317
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:49,720
in Trader, which there is not a lot known about him.

1318
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:54,319
Like I told you, guys, I'm I'm shocked I found

1319
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,920
with the little nuggets of family information that I did.

1320
01:09:57,159 --> 01:10:00,760
So guys, all we've got is he was born in

1321
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,680
September twenty four, nineteen twenty in Vienna, Austria. His full name,

1322
01:10:06,039 --> 01:10:08,159
and if you guys know one of his pseudonyms, you

1323
01:10:08,319 --> 01:10:11,079
should perk up at this. His full name was Gerald

1324
01:10:11,239 --> 01:10:19,720
Easydore Israel Nemiah intrudeor his family being his mother, father,

1325
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:24,960
and sister were residing in Vienna when Hitler took over.

1326
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,920
It is unknown, however, when Gerald himself came to America.

1327
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:35,119
I found one newspaper article in nineteen forty one stating

1328
01:10:35,119 --> 01:10:37,359
that he was already living in New York because the

1329
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,800
article was about this giant Hellish boat that was bringing

1330
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,960
over tons of refugees, and his family was on that boat.

1331
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:50,479
He was waiting for his family to arrive. Is unknown

1332
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:53,880
how he got in the film industry, but he became

1333
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:58,479
most notorious in the mid to late fifties. Oh, I

1334
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:02,079
believe god a Striper Rama. His first real directing credit

1335
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:08,800
starts with the wonderful little burlesque film Striper Rama, which

1336
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:10,640
is a very random thing. I get the feeling he

1337
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:11,680
was a director for hire.

1338
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,319
Speaker 5: His credit is like I think his credit as art

1339
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,479
director or stage director on there. So I wonder if

1340
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:20,279
it was with burlesque theaters in New York. Maybe, I

1341
01:11:20,319 --> 01:11:24,239
don't know, like like Lillian Hunt sort of. Oh, it's

1342
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:25,880
not really a film director either.

1343
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1344
01:11:27,079 --> 01:11:29,399
Speaker 5: That's kind of the thing because there is no official

1345
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:34,039
history or any clear connections to be made. It's like

1346
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:35,880
all we can do is kind of guess.

1347
01:11:36,119 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: In some of these places. There's also that misconnection to

1348
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,319
Irving Claw again with Yes Rama.

1349
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,399
Speaker 6: So right, that's true. So yeah, fifty three, he started

1350
01:11:45,399 --> 01:11:49,359
with Strip Rama and then Not in New York in

1351
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,840
nineteen fifty nine. But besides this film, what he's most

1352
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:59,359
notorious four was being one of the go to men

1353
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,960
too shoot nude scenes to spice up foreign films. From

1354
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:07,560
what I've gathered based on his affiliation, even though of

1355
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,439
course I don't have any definite proof on like which

1356
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,000
ones he worked on things like that, he definitely seemed

1357
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:18,520
to have been William Michigan's go to guy for a

1358
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:22,439
bunch of his stuff, such as Oh God, the Skin Game,

1359
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:26,680
which had Audrey Campbell in it, One hundred Dollars a Night,

1360
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:32,760
which had Sharon Kent Maybe Amorous Sex, which has a

1361
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,840
very hard to recognize g G dar Lean with jet

1362
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,920
black hair. Yeah, it took me a second watch to

1363
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,399
realize it was based on her face and I just

1364
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:44,399
know her breasts. I hate it sounds so weird.

1365
01:12:45,319 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 5: Listen, listen, very very very recognizable in this genre. Well,

1366
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:54,760
like I yeah, there was another movie we're doing a

1367
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:56,760
commentary for I took notes on. I was like, oh, right,

1368
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,199
that is that actress because even though her face is shown,

1369
01:12:59,279 --> 01:13:02,920
I know that I know that chest anywhere. Yeah, it's

1370
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:05,920
it's a mark of affection. It's not a mark of perversion.

1371
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,560
It's a mark of like, Oh I love that I

1372
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:08,960
know that beautiful body anywhere.

1373
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 6: It's kind of like when when I was watching that

1374
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,600
film that campus put out which was spiced up called

1375
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,600
The Unsatisfied, I could tell June Roberts was there based

1376
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,720
on the back of her head and just her legs alone.

1377
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,319
Oh yeah, like those are dunes legs, those are her abortions.

1378
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 5: Those are her gams. Absolutely yeah.

1379
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 6: I was like, that's absolutely Juny. The only ones we

1380
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,960
really we absolutely know that he doctored up are Heat

1381
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:36,880
the Curious Doctor hump. He then did those color inserts

1382
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,720
for Tuck Me in, another fantastic film that more people

1383
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:45,439
should see, Yes, and in the horror sector, adding more

1384
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:49,159
gore and stuff to Night of the Bloody Apes as well.

1385
01:13:50,119 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 2: Alex who did the inserts for the extra ones for

1386
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:05,279
Seeds your idea because that was insert's boy, Linda boy. Yeah,

1387
01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:07,800
that was a Michigan to wasn't it.

1388
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,159
Speaker 5: It was like the usual Suspects.

1389
01:14:09,239 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 9: No, that was, yeah, there was because I wanted to

1390
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:16,880
shot that for all I know, they had some money

1391
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,439
and Andy had somebody to do that quick.

1392
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:25,199
Speaker 6: Yeah. Those are very lazy. Intro Doors was the classic style.

1393
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:29,560
Uh yeah, Intro doors was a classic style of if

1394
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,880
if if if the original film has a has sequences

1395
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:36,039
at nightclub, there will be a backstage scene of a

1396
01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:40,479
bunch of dancers chatting and changing their clothes, and then

1397
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,800
during the bathing scene, you know, like the woman will

1398
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,880
start to get up, and then there'll be a close

1399
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:50,119
up of just someone's chest rising out of the water.

1400
01:14:51,079 --> 01:14:53,159
That was pretty seamless from what I've seen, and like

1401
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:55,960
heat and stuff like that. He did good inserts, so

1402
01:14:56,199 --> 01:14:58,760
I do so seeds could not have been him. He

1403
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:02,079
was way better at this at whoever was doing whoever

1404
01:15:02,319 --> 01:15:02,840
was doing that.

1405
01:15:03,239 --> 01:15:07,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, the insert of June Roberts in or the Pink

1406
01:15:07,319 --> 01:15:11,359
Pussy where Sinton lives. Yeah, she's like backstage. Yeah classic.

1407
01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 5: Well that's Jack, that is Jack Curtis, And that's another

1408
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,039
good film doctor because that was Lee Hessel had an

1409
01:15:17,079 --> 01:15:19,079
in house guy at campus and that was Jack Curtis,

1410
01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:22,760
who directed Flushooters. But yeah, like it's very interesting that

1411
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:24,680
you had these guys who were regularly doing this in

1412
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,119
New York and they could do it well, so that's

1413
01:15:27,119 --> 01:15:29,920
why they kept getting work done. It's also interesting that

1414
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,920
you have these distributors that actually kind of give a

1415
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,239
shit about this, because there were there considering the misign

1416
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:38,399
typically did not give a shit about a lot of stuff.

1417
01:15:38,399 --> 01:15:41,439
It's very surprising that he would go to somebody that

1418
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,800
he knew could do the job well well also, otherwise

1419
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:46,960
I thought he wouldn't care Well at this.

1420
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,800
Speaker 6: Point, you also just absolutely had to By this point

1421
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,039
mission was still held out if he could have, if

1422
01:15:52,079 --> 01:15:54,880
he could have, but bye, sure yeah, yeah, but by

1423
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,600
around nineteen sixty two, nineteen sixty three, you had to

1424
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:59,680
start adding nudity. You just had to.

1425
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:04,159
Speaker 5: What was that ad that we found There was some

1426
01:16:04,279 --> 01:16:06,439
movie that was a French import that was from like

1427
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,920
nineteen fifty one in nineteen six and it was released

1428
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,560
here in like nineteen sixty six. Is the double feature

1429
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,960
with I think Hot Nuts on the Pisis and it's

1430
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,800
just like you, Yeah, there had to have been inserts

1431
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,640
because that's a fifteen year old movie from post war France.

1432
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:21,159
Speaker 2: The doesn't no way.

1433
01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:24,039
Speaker 6: There was editing one hundred dollars a Night, which came

1434
01:16:24,039 --> 01:16:27,000
out around nineteen sixty seven. In this version was Oh

1435
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,840
My God, which has has Sharon Kent there.

1436
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:31,800
Speaker 2: She is right there oh my icon.

1437
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:35,279
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, because this film, the original film has

1438
01:16:35,279 --> 01:16:38,159
to do with prostitution, so of course there's an exemplary

1439
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:41,399
scene of a prostitute at work with two John's, which

1440
01:16:41,399 --> 01:16:44,319
is Sharon Kent. This was from like the mid fifties.

1441
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,000
I want to say, Oh, I think it was Love Now,

1442
01:16:47,079 --> 01:16:49,680
Pay Later, which was fifty three, and then it came

1443
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:51,640
out like fifty five sixty five.

1444
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,319
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, yeah, you know what.

1445
01:16:54,399 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 5: I kind of want a I would love a compilation

1446
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:04,039
of just insert for American like like, for example that one,

1447
01:17:04,239 --> 01:17:05,680
for example one hundred dollars a night.

1448
01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:08,520
Speaker 2: I only need to see the Sharon Kent stuff.

1449
01:17:08,279 --> 01:17:09,039
Speaker 6: Like, I don't care.

1450
01:17:09,119 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 5: I don't give a shit about the rest of the

1451
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,319
other stuff, Like I just want to see the inserts.

1452
01:17:13,359 --> 01:17:16,199
I feel like there could be a very interesting faue.

1453
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,920
I don't know, they could. You could, Yeah, I don't know.

1454
01:17:19,239 --> 01:17:21,279
Speaker 2: I feel like that would be great. You guys could

1455
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:22,560
do that. Yeah, they're good.

1456
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:26,560
Speaker 5: Do a mixtape, do the insert mixtape, skin game, skin game.

1457
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:30,600
Speaker 6: I need Audrey Campbell as well and stuff.

1458
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:32,279
Speaker 5: I don't need to see the rest of it. Just

1459
01:17:32,319 --> 01:17:33,159
give me the inserts.

1460
01:17:33,399 --> 01:17:36,399
Speaker 6: I've only watched films like the Unsatisfied for the inserts

1461
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:40,039
like in the Unsatisfied Sheila Britt backstage like like attack

1462
01:17:40,119 --> 01:17:42,239
someone else with a pair of scissors, and there's like,

1463
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:47,520
oh my god, I heard Audrey Campbell. Yeah. Yeah. The

1464
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,880
only good part about the amorous, sex, awful British singing

1465
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:57,680
drama lean just that's the only good part about that one.

1466
01:17:59,039 --> 01:18:01,640
Speaker 2: Is she talking in that? Does she have like speaking lines?

1467
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,560
Speaker 6: No, she doesn't. The man she's with is over dubbed,

1468
01:18:06,079 --> 01:18:08,039
like you want to get into the business, honey, this

1469
01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:09,880
is how we do it. And he strips off her

1470
01:18:10,119 --> 01:18:10,640
blouse so.

1471
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,079
Speaker 5: They're really trying to make it look like it's like it's.

1472
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 2: An import for sure. Yeah that's interesting.

1473
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh god, yeah yeah makes a smart smart director

1474
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:22,920
would have had her just speak in German and then

1475
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:24,960
made it look like it was shot in Germany. That

1476
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,119
would have been great.

1477
01:18:26,119 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 6: But well, this was a British film. This was a

1478
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:31,560
British film, This was this was a British This one

1479
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:32,159
was British.

1480
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 5: Now imagine Jesuid Darlene with her German action trying to

1481
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:38,079
do a British accent that insert.

1482
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:40,520
Speaker 6: I god, that would have been great.

1483
01:18:41,159 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 2: The things that we wish had happened.

1484
01:18:43,399 --> 01:18:46,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, like I said, Hessel,

1485
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:50,960
Hessel was pretty like his pickups were pretty okay, there's

1486
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,119
something you can find something to enjoy in them.

1487
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 2: Ones are not bad is pretty great.

1488
01:18:58,199 --> 01:19:01,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're not bad. The Michigan's I not to bother

1489
01:19:01,359 --> 01:19:03,680
that they have not surfaced, because those are films that

1490
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:07,479
are over ten years old, and even just look at

1491
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,600
the trailers that he did, you can just tell there's

1492
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:13,319
not much there. There is not much there in those things.

1493
01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:17,399
Amra Sex is torture. Torture one of those films where

1494
01:19:17,399 --> 01:19:19,319
I'm like, really we had to get Amra sex and

1495
01:19:19,359 --> 01:19:21,640
not Cottonac naked? Are you kidding me?

1496
01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 2: I know?

1497
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,159
Speaker 6: Ugh, okay, yeah that's for Peppy Cinderella.

1498
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:30,239
Speaker 1: Mind your own business.

1499
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 6: How did you live to your present day?

1500
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:37,119
Speaker 1: I'll go soak your ahead, Paul Nett put that down, Spacey.

1501
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 6: Let's get into because Bernard Hershison, the director of photography

1502
01:19:43,039 --> 01:19:45,960
for this fantastic, for this beautiful film. Not to mention

1503
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:50,279
the orgy at lit. Yeah, Bertie's fantastic. He has a

1504
01:19:50,399 --> 01:19:55,199
very interesting background. He began working in film at early age.

1505
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,399
He didn't say where, but he just said, Addie studio

1506
01:19:59,399 --> 01:20:04,800
as a go, trying out anything he could at any position.

1507
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:08,920
He did about everything he had set design, he did sound, this,

1508
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,039
and that. He became the most interesting in photography. However,

1509
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:17,800
after being an assistant cameraman a couple times, then the

1510
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,960
Korean War came and he was drafted in in nineteen

1511
01:20:21,039 --> 01:20:25,000
fifty one, and they asked what do you do, And

1512
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,039
he hadn't taken the official position yet, but he has

1513
01:20:28,079 --> 01:20:31,359
told them I'm a cameraman. So they made him a

1514
01:20:31,359 --> 01:20:35,279
cameraman and instead take him to Korea. He was shipped

1515
01:20:35,319 --> 01:20:38,720
off to Europe and he filmed some very interesting things

1516
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:43,000
like Eisenhower becoming a five star general at NATO. There's

1517
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,039
a photo of him at NATO headquarters apparently filming that.

1518
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,600
And then after the war he came back to New

1519
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,159
York and started taking any camera man position he could,

1520
01:20:54,399 --> 01:20:58,840
tons of documentaries, lots of commercial work. He was cameraman

1521
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:02,640
for that little art film Day and Lisa, which he

1522
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,760
was a big help in that because the director was

1523
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:06,439
not too good at like figuring out how to like

1524
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:08,960
block scenes and stuff like every night he would sit

1525
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:10,479
with him and figure out what they were going to

1526
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:11,279
do the next day.

1527
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:15,119
Speaker 5: Well, just like, wait, wasn't that Frank Perry, David Lisa?

1528
01:21:15,239 --> 01:21:18,479
Was that Frank Perry? I don't remember now. Well, I

1529
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:20,640
think most people now agree that the secret to his

1530
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,000
success with his wife Eleanor, that might have been pre Eleanor.

1531
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, well maybe the secret to this one was was Bernie.

1532
01:21:27,159 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 5: Bernie, right, it was Frank Perry. Yeah, and Eleanor. Eleanor

1533
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,399
wrote the movie. I don't think she was involved though, Yeah.

1534
01:21:33,239 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we have Bernie to thank for that,

1535
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:39,399
looking as yeah, being with it looks really good. And

1536
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,239
sometime again he didn't give a bunch of love of

1537
01:21:43,239 --> 01:21:46,600
information about him specifically, but in the mid fifties, through

1538
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:52,119
an editor friend, he met Jerry Intradoor and started to

1539
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:56,000
shoot insert sequences for him, which was how yeah, which

1540
01:21:56,039 --> 01:21:58,279
was how they got together, and how he ended up

1541
01:21:58,319 --> 01:22:03,680
shooting saying high heel and orgit Lill's Place. Unfortunately he

1542
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,000
shoots experts. I wish I could have asked him this

1543
01:22:07,039 --> 01:22:09,520
before he passed. I do not know if he filmed

1544
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:11,920
Caught in the Act naked or not, because the press

1545
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:18,640
book has minimal credits for that one. Quickly afterwards, he

1546
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,520
did a lot more commercials and documentaries, so he may

1547
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,920
not have always been shooting stuff for Intro Door because

1548
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:31,760
he was so insanely busy, and also he began he

1549
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,439
also was a go to cameraman to film quite a

1550
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:38,159
few presidents. He was one of the go tos for

1551
01:22:38,279 --> 01:22:41,600
John Kennedy. He saw him the day before he died.

1552
01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:43,520
I believe Eisenhower.

1553
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,600
Speaker 2: Definitely Richard Nixon he talks about in that commentary track.

1554
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,520
Speaker 6: Yes, and definitely Richard Nixon, and he says some things

1555
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:55,399
about Nixon being really creepy. He eventually stopped filming for Nixon.

1556
01:22:57,000 --> 01:23:00,000
There's yeah, there's there's some bizarre there are some bizarre

1557
01:23:00,079 --> 01:23:07,479
stuff there and most and then he directed the fantastic

1558
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:12,720
Little Crown pickup called The Pickup. Well originally Pazuzu.

1559
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:19,399
Speaker 5: Are there two versions on that blu ray, it's just

1560
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:23,560
the one it is and then there's an extra of

1561
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,800
the pick Up credits because the credits is the only

1562
01:23:27,239 --> 01:23:31,880
difference between Pazuzu and the pick Up version. Okay, that

1563
01:23:32,039 --> 01:23:34,680
is such a special movie and that was like such

1564
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,199
a passion present room. He did so much stuff on

1565
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:41,720
that movie. It's it's it's like a one man show almost. Yeah,

1566
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,319
it's such a it's such a great little movie.

1567
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you get a chance to watch that, I

1568
01:23:46,319 --> 01:23:50,239
definitely give give the commentary a track a listen, because yeah,

1569
01:23:50,279 --> 01:23:53,039
Bernie's on that with Joe Rubin and they go into

1570
01:23:53,039 --> 01:23:56,439
the whole production and yeah, Bernie was I don't know

1571
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:58,239
the whole he didn't really go into like how it

1572
01:23:58,359 --> 01:24:02,880
came about exactly, but I mean he's basically.

1573
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,399
Speaker 5: In the interview. Yeah, he's given the video.

1574
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,079
Speaker 2: He was given full freedom over the project. I mean

1575
01:24:08,079 --> 01:24:10,720
he got this script from another guy, and he was

1576
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:12,920
originally a poor nod script, he said, and he kind

1577
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:16,119
of turned it into this, in his words, a tone poem,

1578
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:18,119
which is exactly what the fact.

1579
01:24:18,119 --> 01:24:21,039
Speaker 5: It's so accurate too. Yeah, that movie, it's kind of

1580
01:24:21,119 --> 01:24:23,399
you know, I think we've said Submission is kind of

1581
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,920
like an experience. It's not necessarily a narrative film to

1582
01:24:27,039 --> 01:24:29,880
go follow from beginning to end. It like washes over

1583
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,079
you pick Up is very similar to that. It is

1584
01:24:32,279 --> 01:24:36,159
very much a moon piece that you experience, not necessarily

1585
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:39,279
looking for, you know, narrative.

1586
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:41,119
Speaker 2: Points and stuff like that. Yeah, it's it's very I

1587
01:24:41,159 --> 01:24:41,840
really love it.

1588
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:42,159
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1589
01:24:42,159 --> 01:24:44,199
Speaker 2: I think he just I think the opportunity just must

1590
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:45,840
have landed in his Lap because like you said, he

1591
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,359
was busy doing a bunch of commercial work at the

1592
01:24:48,359 --> 01:24:50,319
same time as well. And I think he got this.

1593
01:24:50,359 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 6: Script and the money and that's what he went on

1594
01:24:53,039 --> 01:24:55,479
to do afterwards. Like that's just what he did for

1595
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,960
the rest of his life. He had a great, long career.

1596
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 5: As his IMDb is so is so incomplete because there's

1597
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,800
so much stuff that is not on IMDb or it

1598
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:06,279
wouldn't credit him. It's kind of I think Chuck is

1599
01:25:06,279 --> 01:25:08,279
the same way. Actually, see David Smith is similar and

1600
01:25:08,279 --> 01:25:10,560
that there's just so much work that will never know

1601
01:25:11,159 --> 01:25:14,560
what the full resume because yeah, just not commercial.

1602
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah it's commercial work, that's not ye, nobody's adding that

1603
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:18,439
to IMDb.

1604
01:25:19,119 --> 01:25:23,079
Speaker 6: Yeah, somebody one of Crown's best pickups next to like

1605
01:25:23,159 --> 01:25:27,279
Best Friends and yeah, Shank Young Women and things and

1606
01:25:27,279 --> 01:25:27,880
things like that.

1607
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:35,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, I like, no, Police Women is way better.

1608
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:39,199
Speaker 2: That's the leaf that one's amazing.

1609
01:25:40,399 --> 01:25:43,520
Speaker 5: Was the Police Women produced by Crown, though no, I

1610
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:44,960
think it was another Leaf Frost pickup.

1611
01:25:45,319 --> 01:25:46,079
Speaker 6: Oh beautiful.

1612
01:25:46,239 --> 01:25:49,840
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, I don't think Crown. I could be wrong

1613
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:51,960
with this. I don't think Crown produced that much stuff

1614
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,079
in the House at it's mostly pickups.

1615
01:25:54,279 --> 01:25:57,159
Speaker 6: It was like even though it was like weird babysitter

1616
01:25:57,239 --> 01:26:01,000
and teacher, Oh interesting.

1617
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:03,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, those are even those are pickups yeah, like yeah,

1618
01:26:03,159 --> 01:26:05,319
and that's like young Graduates was a pick up. We

1619
01:26:05,359 --> 01:26:08,039
need to book on pickups so badly. Well, we need

1620
01:26:08,079 --> 01:26:12,239
to find Crown first of all. Yeah, I'm very concerned.

1621
01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:13,920
And that's kind of why, like this blue is out

1622
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,119
of print. All the Crown stuff is. If it's out

1623
01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:17,840
of print, it's not going to come back into print

1624
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,279
until we figure out where the hell the owners went

1625
01:26:20,399 --> 01:26:22,920
and the elements. So right now it's kind of up

1626
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:23,319
in the air.

1627
01:26:23,399 --> 01:26:26,640
Speaker 2: Yea. Yeah, this this out the Blue ray for Pickup

1628
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:28,319
is going for like one hundred dollars.

1629
01:26:28,399 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 5: Now I'm glad I have mine and also place on it,

1630
01:26:32,039 --> 01:26:34,439
which is like if you want to see a shockingly

1631
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,800
not bad Michigan this Expectation movie. I quite like it.

1632
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,159
That's where you have to get it.

1633
01:26:41,399 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, visually, Oh that's just a beautiful film.

1634
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 2: It is. It's really beautiful. I was really shocked, you know,

1635
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:51,239
coming at that, because you know, I've I've heard about

1636
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,279
Orgy at Littles Place for years now, but I've never

1637
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:54,680
seen it.

1638
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, so when I watched it.

1639
01:26:56,359 --> 01:26:59,239
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I'm expecting this garbage Michigan movie

1640
01:26:59,279 --> 01:27:02,880
that everybody fun of for being all all sizzle, no steak,

1641
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:06,399
and I'm just like, yeah, it is all sizzl no steak.

1642
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,119
But it's also just like a really gorgeous film and

1643
01:27:09,159 --> 01:27:11,640
with tons of great photography of New York.

1644
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:16,079
Speaker 6: And yeah, and also just and also I will say

1645
01:27:16,119 --> 01:27:20,119
fascinating how careful it is. Yeah, in terms of what

1646
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:23,479
it shows, it's very interesting, and like Jerry really knew

1647
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:25,720
what he was doing. And I really feel like also

1648
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:27,880
Michigan was kind of breeding down his neck, being like

1649
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:29,119
you can only do it.

1650
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 2: This way everything, you know. Jimmy McDonald's book, he talks

1651
01:27:33,039 --> 01:27:35,600
a lot in his his million book, he talks a

1652
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:39,479
lot about Michigan and how protective he was over Orgy

1653
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:41,279
at Little's Place, especially the title.

1654
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was huge. I think that was his biggest

1655
01:27:46,399 --> 01:27:50,119
release by by far. Yeah. Yeah, nothing beat Orgy at

1656
01:27:50,159 --> 01:27:52,359
Little's Place that did so well.

1657
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 5: Similar to this, and that it is not Yeah, it

1658
01:27:56,520 --> 01:28:00,439
is not graphic, and the title implies that it will

1659
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,920
be much more titillating than it actually is. And and

1660
01:28:04,119 --> 01:28:06,239
also it's kind of like the Seducers. I'm like, Wow,

1661
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:08,800
how exactly erotic is this going to be? You know,

1662
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:11,720
you know, I think it's kind of interesting because people

1663
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,520
will talk about porno chic, about like this almost crossing

1664
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:18,079
over from sex films into Hollywood, where it's like this milding,

1665
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,279
and I feel like films like this and Orgy Lost

1666
01:28:21,239 --> 01:28:24,520
Place are kind of already moving towards that in the

1667
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:28,159
early sixties where there is that crossover potential because you

1668
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:33,479
have real actors, real technicians, real scripts, a really careful

1669
01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:38,640
use of sexual elements that aren't too you know, too graphic,

1670
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,000
and it's interesting, you know, it's it's interesting just to

1671
01:28:42,079 --> 01:28:46,439
note that, like, yeah, and then it all went downhill

1672
01:28:45,359 --> 01:28:48,760
and something happened where it all went to It all

1673
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:52,279
went to sleeves. This movid Ley's and the Olga films ruined.

1674
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:56,079
Speaker 2: Like Satan in high heels. If it wasn't for kind

1675
01:28:56,119 --> 01:28:59,600
of the nude swimming scene and maybe like that really

1676
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,560
hot kiss afterwards, this could be like an r KO

1677
01:29:03,159 --> 01:29:04,920
B movie, don't you think.

1678
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:07,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's something that you would say, like bel Air

1679
01:29:07,119 --> 01:29:07,880
production is doing.

1680
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:13,279
Speaker 6: Someone once posed the theory that it might have even

1681
01:29:13,319 --> 01:29:16,159
been intended for later TV play because those are very

1682
01:29:16,199 --> 01:29:19,680
easy to cut out too. Yeah, like that's you don't

1683
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:21,119
need it, you need it at all.

1684
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:24,520
Speaker 5: No, No, I could see it working on TV, actually,

1685
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,399
I really could, because it's like, yeah, I mean even

1686
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:32,000
the even the even the queer characters aren't as so

1687
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:37,159
overtly queer that it's offensive or that like censor boards

1688
01:29:37,159 --> 01:29:39,079
would be like, well, this is this Barbara Darktown.

1689
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:39,560
Speaker 2: Is clearly gay.

1690
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 5: The bar the owner was clearly lesbian. Like there, it's

1691
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:43,479
not that obvious.

1692
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:45,640
Speaker 2: I just don't know if they were that forward thinking.

1693
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:47,399
I want, I don't I don't know if they were.

1694
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 6: Well I think they were, because the reviews did really

1695
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,000
get into that. We'll get it.

1696
01:29:54,079 --> 01:29:58,640
Speaker 5: They did, so they did notice the reviews weren't that stupid.

1697
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, yeah, they did see into it.

1698
01:30:02,279 --> 01:30:04,239
Speaker 2: I mean we were thinking as far as like putting

1699
01:30:04,279 --> 01:30:07,600
this on TV in that way. I don't know, but

1700
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:09,800
I don't know anyways.

1701
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:14,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, but let's get into the production. Because yes, in

1702
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:16,800
the early what I started to find in the early

1703
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:22,119
sixties Bertman. I have no idea who his pr man was,

1704
01:30:22,199 --> 01:30:25,760
but he was. I hope he got a raise because

1705
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,000
he really started putting all these little bits in like

1706
01:30:28,039 --> 01:30:31,079
the little gossip columns, what's going on in Broadway, you know,

1707
01:30:31,159 --> 01:30:35,720
and things like that. So early sixties you start reading

1708
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:40,680
things like producer Leonard Bertman has bribed Meg Miles with

1709
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:45,520
lead role for his new film, and then Leonard Bertman

1710
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:52,479
courts Sabrina for a role. Most interestingly was a piece

1711
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:57,640
that said Berman intended to fly to Paris to sign

1712
01:30:58,039 --> 01:31:03,760
famed female impersonator coach to Nell. Although the art although

1713
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:06,600
the article said, well, that's not going to go over

1714
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:09,640
well because it is unlawful to do that in the

1715
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,279
US unless it's Halloween or licensed balls.

1716
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 2: Well, how did they get the female impersonator in uh? Teaserama?

1717
01:31:17,319 --> 01:31:19,840
That was like fifty that was early fifty mid.

1718
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,039
Speaker 5: I think the laws were different in New York. I

1719
01:31:22,079 --> 01:31:25,880
think there was something because there were female impersonators in

1720
01:31:26,039 --> 01:31:27,159
nightclubs in New York.

1721
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, definitely was.

1722
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:34,319
Speaker 5: In the forties. I think that might have been it

1723
01:31:34,399 --> 01:31:36,000
where it was like, well, because I think that would

1724
01:31:36,039 --> 01:31:39,079
have also drawn undo attention onto the film where it's

1725
01:31:39,119 --> 01:31:40,680
kind of like, well, what kind of film is going

1726
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,199
to have a female impersonator in it? Is it going

1727
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:46,520
to appeal to proring interests? Because that kind of thing

1728
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,199
happens not on camera at a nightclub at night where

1729
01:31:50,239 --> 01:31:53,720
adults go. So it's you know, well, that's yeah, that's

1730
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,359
interesting though that they would even And then also that

1731
01:31:56,439 --> 01:32:00,239
reminds me of him doing the Female Mimics magazine where

1732
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:03,000
it's like, oh, he was fully aware of who she was,

1733
01:32:03,199 --> 01:32:06,840
he was fully aware of trying trans transvestism and drag

1734
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,640
and transperformers find that's so fascinating to me.

1735
01:32:10,159 --> 01:32:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. I doubt Meg Miles would have signed up for

1736
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:15,439
this film though if there was a scene with a

1737
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:17,760
female personator. Yeah, maybe not.

1738
01:32:18,119 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 5: I don't Yeah, no, we'll go into what she already

1739
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:23,000
had issues with some press.

1740
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:27,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, she said, yep, uh huh. So according to her,

1741
01:32:28,359 --> 01:32:32,039
this was from she was interviewed. And I should point

1742
01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:34,960
this out because it was an interesting book in the nineties,

1743
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:39,880
Vava Voom Bombshells, pin Ups, Sexpots and Glamour Girls by

1744
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:43,960
Steve Yees fantastic.

1745
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 2: Are all good?

1746
01:32:46,039 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 5: Oh I need that book.

1747
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 2: I don't have that one.

1748
01:32:48,079 --> 01:32:50,520
Speaker 6: So he did a career spanning interview with her. I

1749
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,960
think Lily scenes Sears and that so many people before

1750
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:55,079
they died, sofore they died.

1751
01:32:55,119 --> 01:32:58,359
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, that okay, uh so, once.

1752
01:32:58,199 --> 01:33:00,520
Speaker 6: Again, thank you. This is right. A lot of this

1753
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:01,560
from so.

1754
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 5: His books are great anyway.

1755
01:33:03,199 --> 01:33:08,279
Speaker 6: According to her, the working titles was Stacy and then this.

1756
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:10,680
This came out even in the press. For some reason,

1757
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:14,359
later on during production it was changed to Pattern of Evil.

1758
01:33:15,159 --> 01:33:17,960
Already when it was already under the tell santan Hi

1759
01:33:18,079 --> 01:33:21,239
Heels because articles were like Saint Hi Hell's happening, and

1760
01:33:21,239 --> 01:33:23,399
then it goes the towel has been changed the Pattern

1761
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:27,199
of Evil. Then then earlier, right before it's released, sant

1762
01:33:27,239 --> 01:33:29,920
Hi Heels is coming out. What they were doing, I

1763
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,479
have no idea. And one of and like I said,

1764
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,079
one of the teaser megs that they put out the

1765
01:33:35,159 --> 01:33:40,319
High Heels issue credits it as Pattern of Evil, shot

1766
01:33:40,319 --> 01:33:46,640
in October nineteen sixty. Over the course of Bernie remembers

1767
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:48,920
it being twenty one days. I've also heard twenty seven,

1768
01:33:50,079 --> 01:33:53,399
so really long. I mean, you can tell, yeah, you

1769
01:33:53,439 --> 01:33:55,840
can tell that they took their time with this one.

1770
01:33:56,239 --> 01:33:58,359
Just by all the lights. You can tell Jesus there's

1771
01:33:58,359 --> 01:33:59,720
like at least six or seven in the club.

1772
01:34:02,319 --> 01:34:02,760
Speaker 2: That makes a.

1773
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:06,359
Speaker 5: Photographer even more like, Yeah, they put they put time

1774
01:34:06,359 --> 01:34:09,920
into this. There were so many setups like for every scene.

1775
01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:13,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, board, where was the club? Did you mention what

1776
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:14,159
club it was?

1777
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 6: Yes, the club was at La Martinique, which was fifty

1778
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:23,800
seven West fifty seventh Street. It was a basement club.

1779
01:34:25,199 --> 01:34:27,399
Speaker 2: That's the street that I work on.

1780
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:34,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, West fifty seventh Street, so it's like near Carnegie Hall.

1781
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:36,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I didn't think it was still open at

1782
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:39,920
this time. La Martinique was in its heyday back in

1783
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:44,439
like the forties, I want to say, in its original owners,

1784
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:48,039
and then it changed hands later on. But yeah, that's

1785
01:34:48,039 --> 01:34:53,640
where they filmed at the and then and then Leonard

1786
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:59,600
Bertman's apartment was used as Arnold's penthouse, hence the bar,

1787
01:35:00,039 --> 01:35:02,079
and by this point he has covered it in leather.

1788
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,840
He's done some brnoway, which is one of my favorite

1789
01:35:04,840 --> 01:35:07,039
parts of looking through the magazines is watching his living

1790
01:35:07,079 --> 01:35:10,760
room change in terms of like decore and stuff like

1791
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:14,680
that one newspaper article and also it's mentioning the Orjet

1792
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:17,800
Lills place that I don't know exactly where, but the

1793
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:22,920
stone house they go to was supposedly somewhere in Connecticut,

1794
01:35:24,239 --> 01:35:27,800
possibly again someone they knew, because again Jerry went back

1795
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:32,880
and used the house for Orjet Lil's where Leonard lived.

1796
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:36,000
I have no idea. Someone said it might have been

1797
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,119
some in place, but that's just a room I've heard.

1798
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:44,159
In terms of production, this wasn't a fun shoot at

1799
01:35:44,279 --> 01:35:47,159
least from every Yeah, sorry to burst her bubble, folks,

1800
01:35:47,199 --> 01:35:51,439
but yeah, it wasn't a very enjoyable time. According to

1801
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:55,279
make Miles, she thought the original script was a more

1802
01:35:56,079 --> 01:35:58,159
I don't know. I don't know what she was thinking,

1803
01:35:58,199 --> 01:36:04,439
but according to her, this script was a straightforward drama.

1804
01:36:05,239 --> 01:36:09,680
But wait in quotes, but as the film progressed, the

1805
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:13,840
producer switched the emphasis and the marketing to exploit the

1806
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:17,960
sex angle. I mean yeah in the film, not really

1807
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,760
in the film. That in the film, but that's the thing,

1808
01:36:21,159 --> 01:36:25,039
that's the thing in the campaign. Yes, in the campaign, yes,

1809
01:36:25,119 --> 01:36:27,399
which is awful because Meg was trying to I'll go

1810
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:29,600
into her biolayer, but Meg was trying to get away

1811
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:34,479
from her glamour cheesecakes, a type persona that was like

1812
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,840
tacked onto her unwittingly. Meg Miles was so over sexualized,

1813
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:42,840
the poor thing. It really affected her career and and

1814
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:45,039
this seemed to be like a good break. She at

1815
01:36:45,039 --> 01:36:47,800
this point she had left Hollywood and come to New

1816
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,640
York to do more serious acting because horrible stuff had

1817
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:52,479
happened in Hollywood.

1818
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:56,159
Speaker 2: She was born like in the wrong decade. If she

1819
01:36:56,359 --> 01:36:59,800
was born like ten fifteen years earlier, she would have

1820
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:04,079
been the biggest noir dame on the screen, like she

1821
01:37:04,159 --> 01:37:06,960
if you see her in even like Calypso heat Wave,

1822
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,199
which I watched, like it comes through, like she's such

1823
01:37:10,279 --> 01:37:12,600
a good she has such a good noir like.

1824
01:37:13,239 --> 01:37:15,560
Speaker 5: Or even like twenty years later, like if she she

1825
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:18,039
could have come around and done like seventy stuff, she

1826
01:37:18,039 --> 01:37:20,520
could have been someone like fade down Away.

1827
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, or actually you know, actually I'll get the rundown

1828
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:25,920
nightment right now because we're already talking about her. What

1829
01:37:26,319 --> 01:37:29,680
happened was that? Okay? So she got into acting and

1830
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:33,520
singing at a young age. She's originally from She was

1831
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:37,920
originally born Billy Jean Jones, a name she hated, so

1832
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:42,920
she adopted her Megan Miles after her great grandmother Megan Miles.

1833
01:37:43,239 --> 01:37:45,960
At a young age, she moved to California and gotten

1834
01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:50,119
in to acting and singing. Fascinatingly, she was recognized by

1835
01:37:50,159 --> 01:37:54,239
a talent agent at one of her high school productions,

1836
01:37:54,279 --> 01:37:59,279
and from that began Gail sorts of small parts. However,

1837
01:38:00,159 --> 01:38:03,920
a lot of those roles became apparent were based off

1838
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:08,920
of her looks and her figure, not her talents, and

1839
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:12,319
then she began as a result, she began getting fans

1840
01:38:13,119 --> 01:38:16,880
because of her measurements instead of her talents, and then

1841
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:21,199
producers pretty much I put her, producers could see little

1842
01:38:21,239 --> 01:38:24,800
beyond her chest, despite how dedicated she was to her craft,

1843
01:38:25,359 --> 01:38:28,000
and at this time off it was awful. Gossip columns

1844
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:31,479
and tabloids were over sexualizing the living hell out of her,

1845
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:34,359
plugging all playing, all these different things that she says

1846
01:38:34,359 --> 01:38:38,279
weren't true. Like she ran into Jane Mansfield and they

1847
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,640
had a like bust off, but Jane backed off because

1848
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:46,479
Meg's proportions were bigger and just absolutely tarnishing her poor reputation.

1849
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:50,520
The only thing that helped her was that throughout this

1850
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,079
time she was doing tons of singing nightclubs. She was

1851
01:38:53,119 --> 01:38:57,600
traveling all over the US doing that, and that helped

1852
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,760
back up the fact that like she, she had talented vocalist,

1853
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,439
which got her one or two recordings released under the

1854
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:09,520
Sunset label. And then the singing part in Phoenix City

1855
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:14,560
which really helped That landed her a seven year contract

1856
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:20,720
with Capitol Records. Around this time, unfortunately, clothed cheesecake photos

1857
01:39:20,760 --> 01:39:25,239
began making the rounds in men's magazines, once again emphasizing

1858
01:39:25,279 --> 01:39:30,359
her proportions. So demands for Meg. Photos of Meg at

1859
01:39:30,359 --> 01:39:33,520
this time were huge. Like like I said, no one

1860
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:37,680
saw how gifted she was. Everyone just wanted Meg because

1861
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:44,279
of her figure. And it kept on tarnishing exactly, and

1862
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,640
tabloids begin also kept on crane falls claims, and it

1863
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:52,760
came to a really bad head when at this point

1864
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:56,960
she was also rubbin Ellie elbows with Hollywood's elite, and

1865
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:00,479
things took a turn. At a party held at Sammy

1866
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:04,920
Davis's hull, a photo was taken of her and Sammy

1867
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:08,520
Davis sitting on a couch amongst a bunch of other people,

1868
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:10,159
and all sorts of people were there. I know Dreudy

1869
01:40:10,239 --> 01:40:15,560
Garland was there. Confidential attained the obtained the photo, cropped

1870
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:17,600
it to make it look like it was just her

1871
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,079
and Sammy alone in a room, and published it with

1872
01:40:21,159 --> 01:40:26,119
heated innuendos. Oh because the back yes.

1873
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 5: And the crazy thing is they did the exact same

1874
01:40:30,039 --> 01:40:34,319
thing to Ava Gardner also with Sammy Davis Junior. His

1875
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:38,760
proximity to white to white women in Hollywood was always

1876
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:41,800
used against those white women, and it's it's sick, it's

1877
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,520
disgusting for both, for both Sammy and the women. You know,

1878
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:46,520
it's it's terrible.

1879
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so that, I mean, her family even started

1880
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:56,359
to get death death threats. From that, she lost many opportunities,

1881
01:40:56,399 --> 01:41:00,000
including her contract by Capitol Records. Unfortunately, yeah, she never

1882
01:41:00,079 --> 01:41:02,920
got to release an album through them. So by nineteen

1883
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:05,239
fifty nine, she was fed up with Hollywood and that's

1884
01:41:05,239 --> 01:41:07,720
why she moved to New York to pursue serious acting

1885
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:12,359
and Saint Hi Heels was her first film, and again

1886
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:15,119
from the outset, she thought it was going to be

1887
01:41:15,199 --> 01:41:17,840
something that that you know, was going to be something

1888
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:20,560
a bit more serious and things like that, which is unfortunately,

1889
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,520
she's so good in this. She eats this movie on stick.

1890
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:25,760
Speaker 5: She eats it up and then and yeah, it kind

1891
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:28,720
of related to what Gentry said, like in a better world,

1892
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:31,439
she would have toured with a nightclub act where she

1893
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,680
did the female of the species is more deadly than

1894
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:36,840
the male in her leather out of it. She would

1895
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:41,920
have recreated this to uproaris, applause and sold out shows because.

1896
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:44,039
Speaker 6: You imagine that's the world I.

1897
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:49,319
Speaker 2: Want to live in. Yeah, that would have been I

1898
01:41:49,359 --> 01:41:52,399
would have died. I feel like this what brings this

1899
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:54,880
movie down from me a bit is that there's not

1900
01:41:55,079 --> 01:41:57,800
enough of those nightclub numbers. They should have put a

1901
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:00,640
few more early earlier on in the film, Like we

1902
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:03,479
don't get I think Sabrina's is three fourths of the

1903
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:04,840
way through the film.

1904
01:42:05,079 --> 01:42:07,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have an audition. We have an audition scene,

1905
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:09,840
which I think is good, and that actually her vocals

1906
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:13,000
and that are better than female the species, more deadly

1907
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,680
than the male, but different songs, you know.

1908
01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:18,560
Speaker 6: And that's what you're saying. What you're saying, I love

1909
01:42:20,119 --> 01:42:22,560
the song is so poignant to what the character Felice

1910
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:26,199
is going through in that moment. Yeah, might just cut

1911
01:42:26,239 --> 01:42:28,560
to her as she like size, as she's like hearing

1912
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:33,079
the lyrics. Incredible, incredible. I love Falise. All I found.

1913
01:42:33,159 --> 01:42:35,720
All I found about Nola Chapman was that she was

1914
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:37,960
doing some off Broadway at the time. That's all I

1915
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:38,199
got it.

1916
01:42:38,359 --> 01:42:40,479
Speaker 5: I know I came up empty too. I was like, oh,

1917
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:43,600
another forgotten jem I'm sure she was great and everything

1918
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:44,239
else she did.

1919
01:42:44,119 --> 01:42:46,439
Speaker 2: To Yeah, I was wondering who this girl was too.

1920
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:50,880
I mean she's she's like the third build girl in

1921
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,439
this right, but she's Yeah, she's really good in this too.

1922
01:42:54,119 --> 01:42:56,079
Speaker 1: You'll eat and drink what I tell you to until

1923
01:42:56,119 --> 01:42:59,800
you lose five pounds in the places where now list

1924
01:43:00,159 --> 01:43:00,800
you listen.

1925
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:04,439
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, little birds in their nests to stop

1926
01:43:04,720 --> 01:43:08,399
this instant speaking of Sabrina to make things worse, Leonard,

1927
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:12,560
I'll get to her. I got her too. But Leonard

1928
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:17,239
Berman and Sabrina, according to a little gossip piece I found,

1929
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:23,279
constantly fought during shooting. It said Sabrina and producer Leonard

1930
01:43:23,319 --> 01:43:26,119
Bertman kept yelling at each other all through the filming

1931
01:43:26,239 --> 01:43:30,439
of Satan High Heels, a low budget job. Sabrina screams

1932
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:35,000
for her own hairdresser, a private limousine, and other small favors,

1933
01:43:35,319 --> 01:43:37,600
and Burton screamed low budgets.

1934
01:43:41,319 --> 01:43:42,039
Speaker 2: I love the idea of.

1935
01:43:42,079 --> 01:43:47,640
Speaker 5: Him just screaming those two words at her. So, Sabrina

1936
01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:49,960
is a full glamazon in this movie. So I totally

1937
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:52,680
see that being an accurate thing, not a gossip lot

1938
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:56,239
loss on page six, blind item, I totally believe that happening.

1939
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I should. Yeah, let me get into Sabrina's

1940
01:44:01,079 --> 01:44:04,560
She has a very interesting. Your career is very interesting.

1941
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:10,159
So she was born as Norma and psychs and she

1942
01:44:10,359 --> 01:44:13,680
was actually a junior swimming champion before she was ten.

1943
01:44:14,159 --> 01:44:16,279
Like that seemed to me where her life was gonna

1944
01:44:16,319 --> 01:44:19,720
go was was yeah, being a swimming champion, and then

1945
01:44:19,760 --> 01:44:25,119
she was No. She contracted polio and was in out

1946
01:44:25,199 --> 01:44:27,960
hospitals for the next four years. She almost lost both

1947
01:44:27,960 --> 01:44:34,800
her legs. Wow. And actually, fun fact, physical therapy is

1948
01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:39,760
what helped give her her proportions her legs and yeah

1949
01:44:40,239 --> 01:44:45,199
upper half wow. Yes. So and she lived in like

1950
01:44:45,239 --> 01:44:47,479
a smaller town, her family ran, her parents ran a

1951
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:51,199
little hotel. She told her parents she was going to

1952
01:44:51,239 --> 01:44:54,159
go visit someone and ended up running off to London

1953
01:44:54,199 --> 01:44:59,119
at age sixteen, ended up destitute, like taking anything out

1954
01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:01,479
of she She she even work trying to sell handmy

1955
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:04,680
jewelry to local stores. One thing she noticed though during

1956
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,039
this time, like as a waitress and things like that,

1957
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:11,960
was that her figure made people stop and stare. She

1958
01:45:12,039 --> 01:45:16,119
eventually befriended a photographer who launched her mother and career.

1959
01:45:17,039 --> 01:45:20,960
Her big break, however, came in nineteen fifty five when

1960
01:45:21,359 --> 01:45:25,560
because this photographer handed a producer or arthur or comedian

1961
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:29,720
Arthur asking himself some photos and Sabrina was one of them,

1962
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:33,680
and they picked out Sabrina. She became Arthur Asky's sidekick

1963
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:35,920
to this show that was popular at the time called

1964
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:38,960
Before Your Very Eyes, which she didn't have to do anything.

1965
01:45:39,039 --> 01:45:41,880
He just saysthing funny and she just kind of giggle and.

1966
01:45:42,199 --> 01:45:44,279
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, this is all over in England.

1967
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:46,920
Speaker 6: Yes, this is all over in England. And then this

1968
01:45:47,039 --> 01:45:51,399
made her and she had very revealing, tight, low cut outfits,

1969
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:53,880
so she became known as the first woman to show

1970
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:55,279
cleavage on British TV.

1971
01:45:56,119 --> 01:45:58,159
Speaker 5: So she was like a predecessor like the Benny Hill

1972
01:45:58,199 --> 01:46:01,119
Girls sort of similar. They were there to be like

1973
01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:03,439
the beautiful girl with like the goofy.

1974
01:46:03,159 --> 01:46:05,520
Speaker 2: Comedian that's interesting, yes okay.

1975
01:46:05,560 --> 01:46:11,680
Speaker 6: And so these small television appearances and her proportions got

1976
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:14,319
her started to get her on the front pages of

1977
01:46:14,399 --> 01:46:18,439
magazines and newspapers and she is she pretty much started

1978
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:23,119
she became she started to become famous for being famous. Uh,

1979
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,720
Like she was fantastic at trying to find any sort

1980
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:30,520
of like publicity photo opportunity, trying to like crash formal

1981
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:33,000
get togethers, all sort of things where she knew photographers

1982
01:46:34,039 --> 01:46:39,680
would be. She really exploited her large chest at once point.

1983
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:41,680
At one point for a publicity thing, she had it

1984
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:43,920
insured for one hundred thousand pounds.

1985
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:50,199
Speaker 5: That sounds like Angelique in La actually right, billboards her

1986
01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:52,079
something and did nothing Based on her.

1987
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:54,520
Speaker 6: Stunts, she was almost kind of like she was almost

1988
01:46:54,560 --> 01:46:56,600
kind of like a British Jane Mansfield a little.

1989
01:46:56,319 --> 01:46:59,520
Speaker 5: Bit, yes, but at least Jane Mansfield could act.

1990
01:47:00,199 --> 01:47:06,199
Speaker 6: Yes, well unfortunately, yeah, and I mean yeah, so she

1991
01:47:06,319 --> 01:47:10,119
was not considered talented, but she was mobbed wherever she went,

1992
01:47:10,319 --> 01:47:13,039
like when she was at airport once and was mob

1993
01:47:13,159 --> 01:47:18,439
so bad part of the roof collapsed. Yes, yes, there's

1994
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,600
this great there's a great piece of probably partially fake

1995
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:23,000
where like a mob attacked on the streets and like

1996
01:47:23,079 --> 01:47:26,239
ripped off half her clothes. That got so much publicity.

1997
01:47:27,720 --> 01:47:31,359
But she did end up, she did end up taking singing,

1998
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:33,760
dancing and acting lessons. She eventually went on tour with

1999
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:38,039
her own cabaretio and got up some better bit parts

2000
01:47:38,119 --> 01:47:42,399
and things. But whether whether or not she got better,

2001
01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:47,159
she already had the stain of being this talent talentless bimbo. Unfortunately,

2002
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:51,239
because yeah, because I love her, insane, she has a

2003
01:47:51,239 --> 01:47:55,439
great presence, even she's just playing herself. I think she's

2004
01:47:55,439 --> 01:47:59,399
just great as as that little character that she just plays.

2005
01:48:00,119 --> 01:48:04,159
Speaker 5: She just plays Sabrina or she's basically playing herself, right.

2006
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:07,840
Speaker 2: Don't they even make that comment like, oh, you just

2007
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:09,119
came back from England?

2008
01:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 6: Oh? Or also where did Kenyon find her? Sabrina found herself?

2009
01:48:14,279 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, that's good, which is very fitting.

2010
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 6: I love that oddly enough. At this point, also, she

2011
01:48:22,079 --> 01:48:25,720
was also hanging around Hollywood's elite too. In America, she

2012
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:27,600
was just known as that bust dey British girl. But

2013
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:30,359
she was like hanging out with Elvis Presley and things

2014
01:48:30,399 --> 01:48:33,079
like that, which is partially which is probably how she

2015
01:48:33,159 --> 01:48:39,159
eventually met the wealthy guynecologist that she married in nineteen

2016
01:48:39,279 --> 01:48:44,279
sixty seven, eventually moving into his mansion in California, which

2017
01:48:44,479 --> 01:48:47,439
prompted her to just give up show business as quickly

2018
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:51,319
as she started. Sabrina walked away from it all after

2019
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:56,439
tragically after a after she divorced him, she ended up

2020
01:48:56,439 --> 01:49:01,000
in a small house in Hollywood where she lived as abercluse.

2021
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:07,239
Especially after she had she always had back problems. I

2022
01:49:07,319 --> 01:49:11,840
wonder why she had a really bad botched back problem,

2023
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:14,439
which left her lower half, which left her paralyzed in

2024
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:15,159
her lower.

2025
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:16,159
Speaker 2: Half like a back surgery.

2026
01:49:16,399 --> 01:49:18,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, sorry, Yeah, she had a batched back surgery.

2027
01:49:19,399 --> 01:49:21,479
And yeah she died of recluse. That took over a

2028
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:23,319
year for people to realize she'd even passed.

2029
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:26,880
Speaker 5: Wasn't sad because I remember the early days of the internet.

2030
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:31,199
Someone made a Sabrina tribute website.

2031
01:49:31,319 --> 01:49:31,880
Speaker 2: I think they.

2032
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:35,000
Speaker 5: Actually interviewed her at her home, like they met her,

2033
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:37,640
and they didn't. She didn't let them take a picture

2034
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:41,279
of her now, but they asked her questions. And that's yeah,

2035
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:44,680
that's sad, very sad because I like her in the

2036
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:45,640
ice house as well.

2037
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:52,279
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, watched that. Can I help you? Dot?

2038
01:49:53,279 --> 01:49:55,079
Speaker 2: Are you the attendant tenant?

2039
01:49:55,239 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 6: Serintendent?

2040
01:49:56,319 --> 01:49:59,239
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly don't think much of your service.

2041
01:50:00,199 --> 01:50:03,520
Speaker 6: Well, you really haven't tried it yet. Now do you

2042
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:05,399
think I could have some change please?

2043
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:07,920
Speaker 2: I'm not satisfied.

2044
01:50:07,960 --> 01:50:08,439
Speaker 6: Customer.

2045
01:50:09,399 --> 01:50:13,279
Speaker 3: Well, there is one customer who doesn't want her eyes smelted.

2046
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 2: So let's get on with the business.

2047
01:50:15,079 --> 01:50:15,439
Speaker 1: Okay.

2048
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:21,199
Speaker 6: My favorite, my favorite woman in this is Grayson Hall.

2049
01:50:21,840 --> 01:50:22,399
Of course.

2050
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:25,039
Speaker 2: I mean she's not really that old in this, but

2051
01:50:25,199 --> 01:50:28,000
she gives off that vibe of like that she somehow

2052
01:50:28,119 --> 01:50:28,359
has it.

2053
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:30,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, you said that she had a two year old

2054
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:33,279
at home, and I'm like, this woman has yeah, can

2055
01:50:33,399 --> 01:50:36,439
give years ago not two years ago?

2056
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 6: Okay, she was incredible. So so she was born September eighteen,

2057
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:45,119
nineteen ninet two, as Shirley Grossman in Philadelphia. Tragically, she

2058
01:50:45,159 --> 01:50:49,720
became she became interested in acting, partially to escape her

2059
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:53,399
very painful childhood her parents, I know at one point

2060
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:55,960
they went through a horrific, bitter divorce and things like that.

2061
01:50:56,479 --> 01:50:59,119
So fine off, Well, she was still in high school

2062
01:50:59,159 --> 01:51:01,359
in Philly. She would come to New York City in

2063
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:04,880
audition for roles. So she was starting out very young,

2064
01:51:05,359 --> 01:51:08,560
and she ended up in She had a very active

2065
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,119
stage career in off Broadway and off off Broadway, and

2066
01:51:12,319 --> 01:51:15,920
was in many influential and avant garde plays, like she

2067
01:51:16,159 --> 01:51:20,000
was in the first iteration of Jean Jannet's The Balcony,

2068
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:25,920
which went on for over a year, and also around

2069
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:27,600
this time in early nineteen sixty was in one or

2070
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:29,600
two very little I don't think you could find them

2071
01:51:29,680 --> 01:51:36,720
experimental type films as well. She was in the Balcony

2072
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:40,039
while she was doing this. She was so she was

2073
01:51:40,079 --> 01:51:42,760
doing that during the evening and then during the day

2074
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:46,960
she was shooting Satan high heels and then yes, she

2075
01:51:47,079 --> 01:51:49,560
had a two year old at home at the exact

2076
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,239
same time. Thank god she had living help. Yeah she has.

2077
01:51:52,279 --> 01:51:54,520
She had some fantastic living help at this time.

2078
01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:56,960
Speaker 5: You said she was born in nineteen oh two, twenty

2079
01:51:57,039 --> 01:52:00,720
two oh, twenty two. Okay, I was like thirty eight

2080
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:01,199
years old.

2081
01:52:01,239 --> 01:52:02,199
Speaker 2: Mother. Okay, wow.

2082
01:52:02,359 --> 01:52:06,640
Speaker 6: Interesting, thankfully though apparently one of the main locations was

2083
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:10,600
around the corner from her old apartment. According to she

2084
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:12,840
has a great biography. This is I got this from

2085
01:52:12,880 --> 01:52:16,960
her biography. Grayson Hall a hard act to followed by R. J. Jamison.

2086
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:18,920
Speaker 2: I didn't know she wrote a book or there was

2087
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:19,680
a book about her.

2088
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:21,920
Speaker 6: Oh wow, Yeah, there's a really good book about her.

2089
01:52:22,279 --> 01:52:27,359
And the author seemingly, I guess interviewed Dell Tenny because

2090
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:33,680
he revealed in this book that she argued with Introdor

2091
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:38,279
and others on the production team. He recalled he recalled

2092
01:52:38,319 --> 01:52:45,920
that Intrador was supposedly very inexperienced, which bothered some of

2093
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:49,800
the actors. Which bothered some of the actors. So Grayson

2094
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:55,600
only mentioned it once in nineteen sixty four for something else,

2095
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:59,560
saying Satan taught me the ABC's of what not to

2096
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:03,640
do in movies, and then later on she would publicly

2097
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:05,720
deny that she was in the film.

2098
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:09,000
Speaker 5: Interesting, yes, well yeah, most I think everyone knows her

2099
01:53:09,039 --> 01:53:12,239
for Dark Shadows now yeah, yeah, now, I mean there,

2100
01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:15,199
it's funny. There are viral video clips that have gone

2101
01:53:15,199 --> 01:53:19,479
around of her horrific smokers scream on that show. It's

2102
01:53:19,720 --> 01:53:24,039
like it is so grating and horrible, it's very over

2103
01:53:24,079 --> 01:53:26,560
the top. So yeah, I mean she was perfect for

2104
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:28,560
a supernatural soap opera.

2105
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:31,039
Speaker 2: Well, I mean just say, like, yeah, she should not

2106
01:53:31,159 --> 01:53:33,439
be ashamed of this movie. I don't get that, Oh,

2107
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:36,760
she's great in it. I assume that, like she yeah,

2108
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:40,520
she just had bad memories of making it with. You know,

2109
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:44,560
she probably she clearly was a level above some of

2110
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:47,479
these people she was working with, so I'm sure that

2111
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:49,199
colored her perspective.

2112
01:53:49,399 --> 01:53:53,119
Speaker 6: But yeah, I also don't think she liked her name

2113
01:53:53,359 --> 01:53:56,439
being beside the campaign art that they eventually went with.

2114
01:53:56,319 --> 01:53:58,159
Speaker 5: Either oh probably not.

2115
01:53:58,199 --> 01:54:00,720
Speaker 6: You know, well, while she's while she's busy things the balcony,

2116
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,439
she's in something called Staying the High Heels with make

2117
01:54:03,479 --> 01:54:06,159
miles of stars all over And I.

2118
01:54:06,199 --> 01:54:09,439
Speaker 5: Was like, oh, yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, but

2119
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:11,520
I feel like the same applies to Meg. I don't

2120
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:13,840
know before Meg passed away if anyone actually sat her

2121
01:54:13,880 --> 01:54:18,199
down and was like, let's watch this, see how amazing.

2122
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:21,079
Speaker 2: You are, regardless of the memories. Yeah.

2123
01:54:21,079 --> 01:54:24,079
Speaker 6: Well, here's what she said. I don't even put on

2124
01:54:24,159 --> 01:54:31,239
my resume. Meg, Yes, because why don't we Well, let's

2125
01:54:31,239 --> 01:54:33,960
get into the worst part of this. What ended up

2126
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:37,560
happening later on in the production while they were filming

2127
01:54:38,560 --> 01:54:44,159
the nude swim scene out in Connecticut, revealing photos were

2128
01:54:44,199 --> 01:54:48,159
secretly photographed of her. In her own quotes, she says,

2129
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:52,560
a no photos edict was posted on the location set.

2130
01:54:52,920 --> 01:54:56,600
Only essential film crew members were present. I spent a

2131
01:54:56,800 --> 01:54:59,920
very long time in the cold water, and alcohol was

2132
01:55:00,079 --> 01:55:02,399
given to me in a bottle to help ward off

2133
01:55:02,439 --> 01:55:06,880
the cold. Someone snuck those shots of me being pulled

2134
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:11,319
out of the water, and in another newspaper bit, she

2135
01:55:11,319 --> 01:55:14,680
she went because she went on to publicly decry the

2136
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:19,000
fact that this happened. I have a piece saying Meg

2137
01:55:19,039 --> 01:55:21,680
Miles is not at all happy. She went to considerable

2138
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:24,920
expense to build a new Meg classes acted at the

2139
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:28,159
Actors Studio and a wardrobe with which played down her

2140
01:55:28,199 --> 01:55:33,000
formidable proportions. So what's happening. What's happening is that Meg's

2141
01:55:33,039 --> 01:55:36,079
movie Saying Hi Heels is about to be released. There's

2142
01:55:36,119 --> 01:55:39,319
a nude bathing scene in the film featured the old Meg,

2143
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:42,000
and the producers refused to scissor it out.

2144
01:55:42,319 --> 01:55:45,560
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So this, this little blurb came out on

2145
01:55:45,640 --> 01:55:48,920
the news wire before the movie was even released.

2146
01:55:49,399 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 5: That's yees a wild two years for this to come

2147
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:53,640
out for some reason.

2148
01:55:54,079 --> 01:55:58,439
Speaker 6: And also those photos started being started gain leaked to

2149
01:55:58,479 --> 01:56:01,239
men's magazines before the film even came out, So everyone

2150
01:56:01,319 --> 01:56:03,640
is thinking that they're going to see a lot more

2151
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:05,560
of Meg than they are.

2152
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:05,800
Speaker 3: Ye.

2153
01:56:06,479 --> 01:56:09,199
Speaker 6: And so she later on did this long piece where

2154
01:56:09,239 --> 01:56:11,680
she talks where she talks about the fact that that

2155
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:15,520
like you know, like like hey, greater actresses, we're doing

2156
01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:18,640
We're doing this. I didn't want to, but like, hey,

2157
01:56:18,800 --> 01:56:22,079
you know, I went and did it. They said that

2158
01:56:22,239 --> 01:56:24,800
I was going to have a stand in. I got there.

2159
01:56:25,399 --> 01:56:30,640
There's no stand in. I'm in this freezing water. So

2160
01:56:31,359 --> 01:56:35,039
it happens, and then suddenly she's horrified to reveal that

2161
01:56:35,319 --> 01:56:40,840
these photos start popping up in all these magazines. So yeah,

2162
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:42,199
she tried a bit too.

2163
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:45,760
Speaker 2: Did you ever find excidence of those photos I found?

2164
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:50,159
Speaker 6: I couldn't find like PDFs of the magazines that are

2165
01:56:50,159 --> 01:56:54,520
supposedly in it. Them actually has a whole list of

2166
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:57,680
all the magazine appearances she has, including the ones which

2167
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:01,119
include the swimming shots. The only one song I've ever

2168
01:57:01,199 --> 01:57:05,760
seen is one is one with her breasts so close

2169
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:07,720
to the water you could like definitely see your nipples

2170
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:11,279
and things like that. Okay, Okay, Well.

2171
01:57:11,159 --> 01:57:13,760
Speaker 5: I guess this is what happens when you're your magazine

2172
01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:17,279
publishers who were working with models, and a director who

2173
01:57:17,319 --> 01:57:20,399
has worked with burlesque dancers, and now you're working with

2174
01:57:20,479 --> 01:57:25,840
like professional singers and actors, and you don't know how

2175
01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:31,159
to adjust your professionalism to match the professionalism of everyone

2176
01:57:31,159 --> 01:57:32,800
else that you've cast in this film.

2177
01:57:33,239 --> 01:57:34,600
Speaker 2: I mean that's yeah, because.

2178
01:57:34,359 --> 01:57:37,239
Speaker 5: Even Deltennie was a professional actor, Like everyone involved with

2179
01:57:37,239 --> 01:57:40,159
this is a professional. So yeah, I guess that makes

2180
01:57:40,199 --> 01:57:43,439
sense that Meg and Grayson are like, this is insane.

2181
01:57:43,039 --> 01:57:44,720
Speaker 2: It's really crazy.

2182
01:57:45,159 --> 01:57:46,199
Speaker 5: What would I sign up for?

2183
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2184
01:57:47,199 --> 01:57:50,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Dell Tenny and whatever I've found just only

2185
01:57:50,720 --> 01:57:53,640
like really pass it off, like there's like proto porn things.

2186
01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:56,479
I did like saying high Heels and Orgy at Lill's place.

2187
01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was just the like, well, Dell was lucky

2188
01:57:59,720 --> 01:58:01,840
because whatever scene or in this place, now that we've

2189
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:05,079
seen it, we know that it's not poorn anything. But

2190
01:58:05,199 --> 01:58:08,239
neither is Satan I eels there's nothing remotely pornographic about

2191
01:58:08,239 --> 01:58:09,119
either of them.

2192
01:58:09,439 --> 01:58:14,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. However, the reviewers really made it seem like

2193
01:58:14,399 --> 01:58:17,439
they did. It did for some odd reason, like reviewers

2194
01:58:17,479 --> 01:58:20,720
really freaked out. That's all I have about about the production,

2195
01:58:21,239 --> 01:58:22,079
the only good.

2196
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:23,880
Speaker 5: Stuff, But it also kind of sours it. It's like,

2197
01:58:24,039 --> 01:58:26,039
how did something that was such a trouble production turn

2198
01:58:26,079 --> 01:58:30,439
out to be so terrific? I guess, I guess. I

2199
01:58:30,479 --> 01:58:33,520
think it helps that it's so beautifully photographed by Hers

2200
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:36,680
Andson that it covers up all of that, you know.

2201
01:58:36,960 --> 01:58:40,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it also makes me wonder, you know, regarding

2202
01:58:40,199 --> 01:58:44,159
these lost scenes in footage, was it possible they saw

2203
01:58:44,239 --> 01:58:48,119
a version with something spicier in there, because yeah, there's

2204
01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:48,880
no wonder.

2205
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:53,199
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'll get into that. So how I figured

2206
01:58:53,199 --> 01:58:56,319
this out first was, Yeah, I got to Leonard Bertman.

2207
01:58:56,359 --> 01:58:59,479
I started looking through PDFs of his magazines. Later I

2208
01:58:59,479 --> 01:59:03,359
came across the issue of High heels, that that haddle

2209
01:59:03,399 --> 01:59:06,000
think of Sabrina that's in the corner that said power

2210
01:59:06,119 --> 01:59:08,840
of Evil. I'm like, oh, I've got there's there's information

2211
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:11,800
on saying hi heels. There's an alternate title, so I

2212
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:15,720
flip into it and there's photos from a scene that

2213
01:59:15,760 --> 01:59:20,159
are in the movie, which as you saw it, folks, again,

2214
01:59:20,239 --> 01:59:24,720
subscribed to her Patreon. There in our show notes it is.

2215
01:59:24,680 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 5: A must subscribe. There's so much great stuff in there. Yeah,

2216
01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:31,720
I'm if I wasn't already on, if I wasn't the

2217
01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:34,039
cost of this podcast, I would be subscribed because I

2218
01:59:34,079 --> 01:59:35,800
want to access all this stuff, folks.

2219
01:59:35,840 --> 01:59:38,399
Speaker 6: I will tell you I'm gonna start slowly putting up

2220
01:59:38,439 --> 01:59:41,960
some of these exploitation actress features from these magazines where

2221
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:47,319
they'd be complacable. You're gonna get good stuff. But anyway,

2222
01:59:47,520 --> 01:59:53,920
so this this Meg, this Meg showed shots of Arnold

2223
01:59:54,399 --> 02:00:01,319
and Stacy in his bedroom. She's half undressed, he's in

2224
02:00:01,359 --> 02:00:03,960
pajamas and she's like sitting on the bed like with

2225
02:00:04,039 --> 02:00:07,640
her and there's a bed with her leg extended and

2226
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:11,399
she's got a high heel on. I think that's what

2227
02:00:11,439 --> 02:00:14,279
I thought. Yeah, I wasna A shot of him putting

2228
02:00:14,279 --> 02:00:18,319
the high on her and and things like that, and

2229
02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:23,279
I thought that this was that this was like cut

2230
02:00:23,279 --> 02:00:28,199
out and completely lost. However, there was just a video

2231
02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:33,880
of Vinegar Syndrome headquarters where you saw some cans for

2232
02:00:34,039 --> 02:00:35,119
Satan and high heels.

2233
02:00:35,199 --> 02:00:37,880
Speaker 2: Yes, we looked at those videos with a microscope.

2234
02:00:37,319 --> 02:00:42,560
Speaker 6: Didn't we, guys. And I freaked out. And I freaked

2235
02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:45,039
out because I think it said like, I don't know,

2236
02:00:45,079 --> 02:00:46,800
one of the cans are like fine grain or something,

2237
02:00:46,840 --> 02:00:48,640
and so I thought that Vinegar Sydom at least had

2238
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:52,560
the fine grain for it, which I'm like, fantastic. So

2239
02:00:52,680 --> 02:00:54,560
only the nag is held hostage, they have the second

2240
02:00:54,560 --> 02:00:58,640
best thing. They have a fine grain. Okay, great, I

2241
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:02,960
comment on that, and good old Joe Rubin says, no,

2242
02:01:03,159 --> 02:01:08,840
these are just for hot scenes. So Vinegar Syndrome has

2243
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:15,079
cans of Saint hi heels that supposedly hot sequences, but

2244
02:01:15,199 --> 02:01:16,319
they remain unseen.

2245
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:21,079
Speaker 5: But also that's surprising because if those came from, if

2246
02:01:21,119 --> 02:01:23,000
those are part of the movie laborate, then they I

2247
02:01:23,039 --> 02:01:24,680
would think they would have been on the DVD. So

2248
02:01:24,720 --> 02:01:25,920
where did the surface from?

2249
02:01:26,279 --> 02:01:29,479
Speaker 6: Maybe they should have later because that yet to go through.

2250
02:01:30,359 --> 02:01:32,159
Speaker 5: Well, that's true. That's why I took forever to get

2251
02:01:32,159 --> 02:01:34,520
to the seeds, work print and some other stuff on there.

2252
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:39,760
This Munt Peddler was a late discovery. Yeah, that's interesting.

2253
02:01:40,399 --> 02:01:42,520
Speaker 2: I would not that I've seen those inserted.

2254
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:43,079
Speaker 6: I don't know.

2255
02:01:43,199 --> 02:01:45,239
Speaker 5: I don't need to see them inserted because I like

2256
02:01:45,319 --> 02:01:47,199
the movie as it is. I think it works as

2257
02:01:47,199 --> 02:01:50,119
it is perfectly. I wouldn't mind watching those just to

2258
02:01:50,279 --> 02:01:54,399
get an idea of what audiences might potentially have seen

2259
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:57,520
that was a little sleazier and a little more adult

2260
02:01:57,600 --> 02:02:01,640
and more more tuned into the audience that the publishers

2261
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:04,640
were already trying to appeal to with their magazines.

2262
02:02:05,199 --> 02:02:07,840
Speaker 6: They were shot in the can, but did they ever

2263
02:02:08,039 --> 02:02:11,439
end up in any prince event We do not know.

2264
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 5: It's the thing, well, maybe they only went to specific

2265
02:02:14,039 --> 02:02:17,720
territories that they knew would be maybe more okay. Was

2266
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:20,760
it like, well, I don't know in sixty two what

2267
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:22,520
territory has never been okay with them?

2268
02:02:23,119 --> 02:02:26,159
Speaker 2: So here's true European export. I don't know.

2269
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:30,760
Speaker 6: This wasn't a This wasn't released in as a typical

2270
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:34,479
sexploitation film. It was this was this was this was

2271
02:02:34,479 --> 02:02:39,560
so this was released was an independent general release film.

2272
02:02:40,039 --> 02:02:45,119
It premiered at the Forum in Manhattan. Huge Ads too,

2273
02:02:45,239 --> 02:02:48,119
like they like cosmic films, put in money for this

2274
02:02:48,520 --> 02:02:51,920
What D did open and I Haven't written down somewhere

2275
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:56,880
here March twenty three, nineteen sixty two, and one of

2276
02:02:56,920 --> 02:02:58,920
the things you could get if you were there early.

2277
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,119
They handed out to two hundred free albums as well

2278
02:03:02,239 --> 02:03:05,399
in credible album so if you like that music. Yeah.

2279
02:03:05,439 --> 02:03:09,079
So also like unlike other like other films, this also

2280
02:03:09,119 --> 02:03:12,479
had an album release, which for the album and a.

2281
02:03:12,439 --> 02:03:16,880
Speaker 5: Book, which is so unheard of for both things one

2282
02:03:17,000 --> 02:03:20,199
maybe maybe one, but for both they really were really

2283
02:03:20,439 --> 02:03:22,880
they were they were really they were putting a lot

2284
02:03:22,920 --> 02:03:24,560
of eggs in one basket with this. They were like,

2285
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:25,840
this is going to be a huge hit and we're

2286
02:03:25,880 --> 02:03:26,600
going to make it happen.

2287
02:03:26,880 --> 02:03:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2288
02:03:27,359 --> 02:03:29,079
Speaker 6: Well it seemed well. Remind me to get to the

2289
02:03:29,079 --> 02:03:31,560
book later on because we got yeah as well to

2290
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:35,680
Yeah for sure. But this did do well. I only

2291
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:39,520
because this played so much. I only chronicled nineteen sixty

2292
02:03:39,560 --> 02:03:43,079
two in that year. And also you know it was

2293
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:46,079
tame because it it like two months into its run,

2294
02:03:46,159 --> 02:03:50,000
started playing in Canada and weird notorious up here, Oh

2295
02:03:50,039 --> 02:03:54,319
we're crazy up here. About our censorship nineteen sixty two.

2296
02:03:54,359 --> 02:03:56,600
It played it in at least one hundred different spots

2297
02:03:57,199 --> 02:04:02,399
throughout that year. Yes, it's God and cosmic films is odd.

2298
02:04:02,439 --> 02:04:05,359
The only other film they released was a really bizarre

2299
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:08,800
French sci fi comedy called Nude in His Pocket, which

2300
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:10,760
was sing So that.

2301
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:12,479
Speaker 5: Was a fifty It wasn't that a fifty seven movie?

2302
02:04:12,479 --> 02:04:14,560
That was really it's a reissue.

2303
02:04:14,399 --> 02:04:19,039
Speaker 6: Yeah wow, but for somebody. But the main co feature

2304
02:04:19,079 --> 02:04:21,560
it played with a lot was the girl was girl

2305
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:22,279
can't help it?

2306
02:04:22,760 --> 02:04:27,119
Speaker 10: Okay Field, which is crazy to that twentieth century foul

2307
02:04:27,199 --> 02:04:32,800
Oh well okay, yeah, its second run twentieth century Fox.

2308
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:34,359
Speaker 5: Can't I guess control that if you have a print

2309
02:04:34,359 --> 02:04:35,359
of it, you'll just play it.

2310
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:36,039
Speaker 2: Wow?

2311
02:04:36,279 --> 02:04:39,199
Speaker 6: Well, well they must know it played a lot with

2312
02:04:39,279 --> 02:04:42,560
Girl with It was its number one b it had

2313
02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:45,479
it played at least fifty spots. I I don't.

2314
02:04:45,640 --> 02:04:50,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, twenty centry Fox wouldn't have saddled this with saddled

2315
02:04:50,600 --> 02:04:53,920
their movie with something like this. I wouldn't think unless

2316
02:04:53,920 --> 02:04:56,680
they were like, well, this saves us from actually doing

2317
02:04:56,680 --> 02:04:59,119
anything in the adult market, but still making money off

2318
02:04:59,159 --> 02:04:59,760
of that market.

2319
02:04:59,800 --> 02:05:03,720
Speaker 2: Butotentially it wasn't the adult market though this was this

2320
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:04,920
was amazing.

2321
02:05:05,239 --> 02:05:09,479
Speaker 5: Wasn't It was more of an adult market situation, So

2322
02:05:09,479 --> 02:05:10,279
so it played.

2323
02:05:10,640 --> 02:05:14,279
Speaker 6: So it played consistently from nineteen sixty two to nineteen

2324
02:05:14,319 --> 02:05:19,079
sixty four, kind of it's quote unquote first run. After

2325
02:05:19,159 --> 02:05:23,279
that it became it became it still had likes. It

2326
02:05:23,319 --> 02:05:28,239
became a second feature for occasional other general stuff, and

2327
02:05:28,279 --> 02:05:31,800
then also became lumped in with early sexploitation product like

2328
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:35,680
Doctor Sex, like Newdi's and things like that throughout the

2329
02:05:35,680 --> 02:05:36,720
rest of the sixties.

2330
02:05:37,119 --> 02:05:40,039
Speaker 2: So I wonder if this that lost top footage was

2331
02:05:40,039 --> 02:05:42,800
ever inserted when it became a second feature. That would

2332
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:45,359
have been the time later if they ever did. But

2333
02:05:45,479 --> 02:05:47,960
again there's no evidence that they ever it was ever

2334
02:05:48,079 --> 02:05:49,840
in there exactly it.

2335
02:05:49,960 --> 02:05:52,159
Speaker 5: Was well, and I guess did you see if it

2336
02:05:52,199 --> 02:05:56,079
was handled? But was it always that same distributor.

2337
02:05:55,840 --> 02:06:02,800
Speaker 6: From whatever credits I could find, because like, yeah, that's

2338
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:04,600
like when it was when it was second feature, and

2339
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:07,399
in this exploitation it's mostly just like the title listed

2340
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:11,000
like as plus Satan high Heels right like.

2341
02:06:11,319 --> 02:06:13,439
Speaker 5: A friend bline around that they never returned or something.

2342
02:06:13,600 --> 02:06:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, only only its first release was well, so

2343
02:06:17,039 --> 02:06:18,920
Cosmic could have also just like letting me. It's kind

2344
02:06:18,960 --> 02:06:20,800
of like how how Friedman let she Freak be a

2345
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:23,319
second feature for other people's films like Cosmic could have.

2346
02:06:23,439 --> 02:06:28,159
Just that's true, Like like yeah, offered it for flat rental.

2347
02:06:28,319 --> 02:06:28,520
You know.

2348
02:06:29,079 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 5: Well, it makes me wonder what the budget was for this.

2349
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:32,079
Maybe they're just like, we just need to keep it

2350
02:06:32,119 --> 02:06:34,119
playing forever because we need more money coming in to

2351
02:06:34,159 --> 02:06:35,359
cover the budgeting this thing.

2352
02:06:35,720 --> 02:06:37,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think so.

2353
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:40,760
Speaker 5: I think pressing a pressing, an LP and a book

2354
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:43,319
and all this other shit attached. It's like they put

2355
02:06:43,399 --> 02:06:45,600
money into this, Like I think they wanted to make

2356
02:06:45,600 --> 02:06:46,560
sure they got everything back.

2357
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:46,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2358
02:06:47,199 --> 02:06:54,359
Speaker 6: It did do well in certain spots in certain key cities. Again,

2359
02:06:54,399 --> 02:06:56,279
it wasn't like an exploitation film where it could stay

2360
02:06:56,319 --> 02:06:59,479
for like ten weeks if it did super well. The

2361
02:06:59,560 --> 02:07:03,800
most played was four weeks in Portland. Other good spots

2362
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:08,199
were New York. It did well. Chicago. It did well Chicago.

2363
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:12,840
It normally played five at a time. It came played

2364
02:07:12,840 --> 02:07:16,439
in five different theaters, disappeared for one of those, Yeah,

2365
02:07:16,479 --> 02:07:19,439
came back for five more. Yeah. It got semi saturation

2366
02:07:19,600 --> 02:07:24,800
and coupled in a couple bigger metropolitan cities interesting wow,

2367
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:27,680
and went to a lot more backwater places. I found

2368
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:30,439
this playing so many weird areas in like Pennsylvania and stuff.

2369
02:07:30,520 --> 02:07:33,359
It really bounced and bounced and bounced and bounce and mounts.

2370
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:34,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2371
02:07:34,199 --> 02:07:37,880
Speaker 5: Well the title is really the title is great. Yeah,

2372
02:07:37,960 --> 02:07:38,920
titles also great.

2373
02:07:39,000 --> 02:07:39,520
Speaker 6: It's nothing.

2374
02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,760
Speaker 5: It's nothing that also wouldn't need to be censored in newspapers.

2375
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:48,680
So it's tantalizing without being two provocatives. It's not one

2376
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:50,560
of those things. It's like, call the theater for this title.

2377
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:53,479
It's like, no Satan a eels sounds great. It sounds

2378
02:07:53,479 --> 02:07:54,960
like a film noir. It could be a film noir,

2379
02:07:55,039 --> 02:07:58,079
could be a sexy movie, it could be anything. Yeah.

2380
02:07:58,399 --> 02:08:01,560
Speaker 6: It had a great tagline the smile, the shape, the

2381
02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:05,520
silky softness of an angel with that with that key

2382
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:07,520
art of may of yeah, that key art.

2383
02:08:07,840 --> 02:08:10,520
Speaker 5: Yeah see I hear. I hate those stories of the

2384
02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:14,199
production sucking because I just think everything connected to this

2385
02:08:14,279 --> 02:08:19,039
movie just like hits my heart. It's just like really

2386
02:08:19,159 --> 02:08:22,760
it really just like I love it all. I love

2387
02:08:22,800 --> 02:08:23,880
it all a handful.

2388
02:08:23,600 --> 02:08:25,279
Speaker 6: Of Like this is one of my top favorite movies

2389
02:08:25,319 --> 02:08:27,680
within like twenty year or so. I love this movie.

2390
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:30,359
Speaker 2: See this is one that I feel like I'm a

2391
02:08:30,439 --> 02:08:32,920
little disconnected from you guys on this is.

2392
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:35,560
Speaker 5: A ra Really it was because you were expecting it

2393
02:08:35,600 --> 02:08:39,039
to be sexier, Yes, yes, okay, then that might have

2394
02:08:39,119 --> 02:08:41,239
been one, because it really isn't. It really is just

2395
02:08:41,279 --> 02:08:43,279
like a it's a character starting of a horrible woman

2396
02:08:43,399 --> 02:08:44,760
trying to make her way ahead.

2397
02:08:45,600 --> 02:08:46,520
Speaker 2: It's you know what it's like.

2398
02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:49,520
Speaker 5: It's I wonder if you'd gone into it expecting to

2399
02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:52,680
see something like Babyface with Barbara Stanwick, where it is

2400
02:08:52,720 --> 02:08:55,920
similar to that where she basically is sleeping her way

2401
02:08:55,960 --> 02:08:59,359
through this one location to try to make the try

2402
02:08:59,399 --> 02:09:03,399
to you know, I'm successful. Baby Face is actually well,

2403
02:09:03,439 --> 02:09:06,720
except for the nude scenes. Babyface is actually more suggestive

2404
02:09:06,760 --> 02:09:09,840
than this exactly, and.

2405
02:09:09,760 --> 02:09:14,720
Speaker 2: That was thirty years previously, almost exactly. Actually, I'm trying

2406
02:09:14,760 --> 02:09:17,880
to look back now. It's like the hot the like

2407
02:09:17,960 --> 02:09:20,319
most striking part of this movie to me was just

2408
02:09:20,359 --> 02:09:24,399
like the small scene where she's finally wearing leather and

2409
02:09:24,439 --> 02:09:29,159
you can hear like the cracking of the leather on

2410
02:09:29,199 --> 02:09:32,520
the microphone. I was like, oh, that's good. I like that.

2411
02:09:32,600 --> 02:09:36,720
I haven't heard like a movie of this type that. Yeah,

2412
02:09:37,039 --> 02:09:38,119
I wanted more of that.

2413
02:09:38,279 --> 02:09:41,840
Speaker 5: Though, yeah, I get that, Like, she doesn't even doesn't

2414
02:09:41,840 --> 02:09:42,600
even crack the whip.

2415
02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:44,880
Speaker 2: There's not a single whip crack in this home movie.

2416
02:09:45,159 --> 02:09:49,039
Speaker 6: Well, she hits, she hits at the end, Yeah.

2417
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:50,840
Speaker 2: When he's when he's on the ground. Yeah, yeah, she

2418
02:09:51,840 --> 02:09:53,199
but she's not like cracked it.

2419
02:09:53,600 --> 02:09:58,479
Speaker 6: Yeah. What sucks is that she gets hit, she gets smacked. Yeah,

2420
02:09:58,600 --> 02:10:00,000
she's the one who gets whacked actor.

2421
02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2422
02:10:04,079 --> 02:10:07,399
Speaker 5: So also, so I'm for our girl.

2423
02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:12,680
Speaker 6: Like, despite the fact that you know it played a lot,

2424
02:10:13,359 --> 02:10:17,800
it was eviscerated by reviewers.

2425
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:19,880
Speaker 5: The only good.

2426
02:10:19,840 --> 02:10:23,199
Speaker 6: Thing it got it got that had a good mention

2427
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:28,439
was mondel Lowe's score when the soundtrack was released. Yes,

2428
02:10:28,960 --> 02:10:30,840
that's the only part of it that got that got

2429
02:10:30,840 --> 02:10:34,800
a good one. I've got to in case anyway, I've

2430
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:40,119
got to talk about the ones. Yes, okay, So in Bob,

2431
02:10:40,479 --> 02:10:44,279
reviewer Bob Walters in Portland, when it was Plainet's longest

2432
02:10:44,359 --> 02:10:47,319
run at the five Arts, gave it a terrible review.

2433
02:10:47,920 --> 02:10:49,720
But I will, I will, I will point out the

2434
02:10:49,800 --> 02:10:53,039
last paragraph though at the very end. The only thing

2435
02:10:53,119 --> 02:10:55,680
he says that might make someone want to go to

2436
02:10:55,720 --> 02:11:00,439
see this is there is one outstanding scene. However, Stacy

2437
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:03,640
back in the sack after an early morning swim, is

2438
02:11:03,760 --> 02:11:06,840
just about to seduce the club owner's son, and she

2439
02:11:06,960 --> 02:11:10,640
gives him one of the most erotic kisses ever seen

2440
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:15,319
on film. Compared to this bit, friends, the much discussed

2441
02:11:15,359 --> 02:11:18,920
cozy secrets in The Lovers is like two six year

2442
02:11:18,960 --> 02:11:23,680
old six year olds plane spin the bottle. Well, the

2443
02:11:23,680 --> 02:11:26,760
Fine Arts read that review and they put a quote

2444
02:11:26,760 --> 02:11:31,039
in their ad that instead said one of the most

2445
02:11:31,079 --> 02:11:34,880
erotic compared to The Lovers is like two six year

2446
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:39,800
olds playing Spin the bottle. And then a day or

2447
02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:43,199
so later, while that ad was still up, so the

2448
02:11:43,239 --> 02:11:47,399
ad and then his column beside it, Bob says, yes,

2449
02:11:47,880 --> 02:11:50,199
I know the Fine Arts is using an out of

2450
02:11:50,279 --> 02:11:53,520
context quote from this column in its ads for that

2451
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:58,239
lousy movie Satan High Heels. Just to set the record straight,

2452
02:11:58,680 --> 02:12:02,920
I hereby offer another quote from the same column. The

2453
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:06,159
Fine Arts Theater, in spite of its high sounding name,

2454
02:12:06,720 --> 02:12:10,119
is well on the way to becoming a cinematic junk yard.

2455
02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:13,760
You're welcome Fine Arts anytime.

2456
02:12:16,119 --> 02:12:20,000
Speaker 2: Just like you, bitch five, I know, but also like

2457
02:12:20,520 --> 02:12:21,199
this review.

2458
02:12:22,039 --> 02:12:23,680
Speaker 5: This bothers me in this review.

2459
02:12:23,399 --> 02:12:26,000
Speaker 6: And they called it a sex film too, It's not Yes,

2460
02:12:26,039 --> 02:12:28,079
they did really well, he says, so.

2461
02:12:28,079 --> 02:12:31,199
Speaker 5: Bob Walters writes his star the Start, Miss Miles goes

2462
02:12:31,239 --> 02:12:33,600
around wearing tight black leather outfits which make her look

2463
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:36,800
like an over sex seal Rude and other of his players,

2464
02:12:36,840 --> 02:12:38,960
a blonde called Sabrina, is so front heavy that one

2465
02:12:39,000 --> 02:12:40,840
Marvel's at house he manages to stay erect.

2466
02:12:41,479 --> 02:12:41,920
Speaker 6: I hate that.

2467
02:12:42,039 --> 02:12:46,439
Speaker 5: And then this other review David Cobby mentioned there's Britain Sabrina,

2468
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:50,279
that wretchedly talentless, mountainous wasteland. She has nothing to do

2469
02:12:50,319 --> 02:12:52,279
with the Plata sets. But taking the word fetish at

2470
02:12:52,319 --> 02:12:56,279
this absolute quote inanimate object regarded with awe, she qualifies

2471
02:12:56,319 --> 02:12:58,239
as one all on her own, like you.

2472
02:12:58,279 --> 02:13:04,119
Speaker 6: Know what that feelies? What?

2473
02:13:04,560 --> 02:13:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2474
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:08,880
Speaker 6: Like forgot nothing? What it is? Not a Garden of fetishes.

2475
02:13:08,600 --> 02:13:09,199
Speaker 2: Not at all.

2476
02:13:09,359 --> 02:13:13,000
Speaker 6: No, I wish, I mean, I wish there was a movie.

2477
02:13:13,439 --> 02:13:13,880
Speaker 2: Not at all.

2478
02:13:14,319 --> 02:13:16,159
Speaker 6: I wish there was a movie called Garden of Fetishes.

2479
02:13:16,479 --> 02:13:17,520
Speaker 5: But that's a great title.

2480
02:13:18,239 --> 02:13:22,560
Speaker 6: So in the end, do not know what Bertman and

2481
02:13:22,640 --> 02:13:26,840
Himmel saw from it. For the next two years there

2482
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:29,680
was little Things planted in the paper saying that producer

2483
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:33,680
Leonard Bertman is getting two different projects off the ground.

2484
02:13:33,720 --> 02:13:36,520
He tried to get off the ground. Nothing ever came

2485
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:40,399
of them, and nothing but exploitation eight like more more

2486
02:13:40,479 --> 02:13:44,279
straight straight lace dramas and things like that. So he

2487
02:13:44,319 --> 02:13:48,520
continued publishing after this and that was about it.

2488
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:51,800
Speaker 2: It's too bad he didn't try again in the late

2489
02:13:51,880 --> 02:13:56,439
sixties when he could have like really pushed his fetish

2490
02:13:56,600 --> 02:14:00,600
imagery to you know, to the limit that time.

2491
02:14:01,000 --> 02:14:04,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, what if he was what if he was Cosmo Advance,

2492
02:14:05,079 --> 02:14:06,359
wouldn't that be interesting?

2493
02:14:08,359 --> 02:14:11,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got Cosmo Advance.

2494
02:14:11,520 --> 02:14:16,760
Speaker 5: Movies are pretty are pretty kinky, pretty fashy, I wonder.

2495
02:14:16,800 --> 02:14:18,199
Speaker 6: Yeah, but but it's interesting.

2496
02:14:18,359 --> 02:14:19,640
Speaker 5: Could he could have been anybody?

2497
02:14:19,680 --> 02:14:21,840
Speaker 2: Who knows? But I wonder. Yeah, I don't know.

2498
02:14:22,119 --> 02:14:24,279
Speaker 6: It is it is interesting that at least after saying

2499
02:14:24,359 --> 02:14:27,000
high heels, because those books, the books came out in

2500
02:14:27,079 --> 02:14:30,119
like the late sixties, he then I think started pointing

2501
02:14:30,119 --> 02:14:35,439
out sexploitation novelizations rights as well. So he's still around

2502
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:36,119
a little bit.

2503
02:14:36,279 --> 02:14:38,560
Speaker 5: So it's still connected with that film industry in some way.

2504
02:14:39,039 --> 02:14:39,319
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2505
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:42,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the Sterman connection too. And that's the thing,

2506
02:14:42,239 --> 02:14:46,600
even the connection to Sterman, with with Sterman's connection to film,

2507
02:14:46,680 --> 02:14:49,199
I'm really surprised. I guess this. I guess the taste

2508
02:14:49,239 --> 02:14:52,680
of satan a Eel's left such a such a sour

2509
02:14:52,880 --> 02:14:55,600
memory in his mind that he was like, I don't

2510
02:14:55,600 --> 02:14:55,960
think this.

2511
02:14:56,000 --> 02:14:57,960
Speaker 6: Is for me again. It seemed like you couldn't get

2512
02:14:57,960 --> 02:15:00,399
anything off the ground, and publishing at this point was

2513
02:15:00,399 --> 02:15:02,640
still doing really well for him.

2514
02:15:02,560 --> 02:15:05,239
Speaker 5: Right, So why bother doing something that's so difficult when

2515
02:15:05,279 --> 02:15:06,439
publishing is so easy?

2516
02:15:06,640 --> 02:15:07,399
Speaker 2: Such a gamble?

2517
02:15:07,680 --> 02:15:11,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's like, yes, yeah, once you have publishing

2518
02:15:11,760 --> 02:15:15,520
down pat you know what works, it's less. Why take

2519
02:15:15,560 --> 02:15:18,199
a risk on something that could lose you so much

2520
02:15:18,319 --> 02:15:21,680
money when you know that you have a guaranteed source

2521
02:15:21,680 --> 02:15:23,800
of income and it's something you enjoy doing too.

2522
02:15:24,399 --> 02:15:26,399
Speaker 6: And he's spent a lot of money. He obviously did

2523
02:15:26,439 --> 02:15:27,840
spend a lot of money on this film. Like he

2524
02:15:27,920 --> 02:15:30,039
really did not need to get Sabrina in this Like

2525
02:15:30,079 --> 02:15:32,520
he like he could have been cheaper. It could have

2526
02:15:32,520 --> 02:15:34,039
been cheaper than what it must have cost.

2527
02:15:34,279 --> 02:15:36,760
Speaker 5: You're telling me there wasn't an entertainer like her in

2528
02:15:36,840 --> 02:15:39,840
New York at that time. Come on, you know, but

2529
02:15:39,880 --> 02:15:42,000
I think he wanted that continent. I think he wanted

2530
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:45,479
something continental. He understood her appeal. Trying to get a

2531
02:15:46,319 --> 02:15:49,560
French drag performer I think he clearly was aiming for

2532
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:51,199
the stars with his first movie, because he was like,

2533
02:15:51,199 --> 02:15:53,000
if we're gonna do it, we're gonna do something like

2534
02:15:53,359 --> 02:15:56,880
extravagant and big. But I think he was thinking, yeah,

2535
02:15:56,920 --> 02:15:59,399
I mean, when you're coming from the publishing world. That

2536
02:15:59,560 --> 02:16:02,279
explained why all these professional actors were just like, this

2537
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:06,479
isn't it, This is not it exactly.

2538
02:16:06,680 --> 02:16:14,800
Speaker 6: I says writings at she's writing this, I must see

2539
02:16:15,199 --> 02:16:19,319
speak of exploitation. Though, gentry, if if you didn't like

2540
02:16:19,359 --> 02:16:23,039
this film because of that, you would have loved the

2541
02:16:23,079 --> 02:16:27,239
novelization for this, because this is like, because this is

2542
02:16:27,279 --> 02:16:33,159
pretty much the exploitation version of Satan high Heels. This

2543
02:16:33,399 --> 02:16:36,319
takes the move, This takes the move. I like both.

2544
02:16:36,399 --> 02:16:38,639
I do really like this book, but it is a

2545
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:43,559
different beast. It's faithful to the film, but it takes

2546
02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:46,760
a lot of sleazy liberties. I took notes of all

2547
02:16:46,799 --> 02:16:51,280
the like really big onesh I go through God, yes, yes, okay,

2548
02:16:51,840 --> 02:16:55,440
Oh my God. So yeah, Like Paul is very openly

2549
02:16:55,520 --> 02:16:58,799
gay because he hires a little stud that he's trying

2550
02:16:58,799 --> 02:17:02,079
to get at in the club. What Yes.

2551
02:17:03,680 --> 02:17:06,159
Speaker 2: Okay has occasional.

2552
02:17:05,680 --> 02:17:09,040
Speaker 6: Lea Zhon's with various women because she comes into the

2553
02:17:09,399 --> 02:17:11,959
She comes into the club haggard and Vince's like, was

2554
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,440
it a hard night? And she was like and it

2555
02:17:14,559 --> 02:17:19,680
mentions that she had a like rough to go. Yeah, everyone,

2556
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:22,799
everyone's more in depth than this she is. She herself

2557
02:17:23,040 --> 02:17:29,760
is very flustered by Stacy and her attractiveness later on, Actually,

2558
02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:34,000
the whole thing is interesting. It is very explicit about

2559
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:37,280
the fact that right off the bat, Pepe is intentionally

2560
02:17:37,319 --> 02:17:42,639
polishing Stacy up for Arnold's pleasure. She and Stacy have

2561
02:17:42,760 --> 02:17:46,879
sex multiple times so that Pepe can like teach her

2562
02:17:46,959 --> 02:17:50,639
all the like weird little things that Arnold is into.

2563
02:17:51,600 --> 02:17:56,520
So she breaks So she very explicitly breaks Stacy in

2564
02:17:56,760 --> 02:18:00,000
for her, and it's continuously brought up that like, yeah,

2565
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:03,200
you're eventually gonna be with Arnold, Like that's eventually going

2566
02:18:03,239 --> 02:18:09,079
to happen. Sabrina is not remotely airheaded. The second Stacy

2567
02:18:09,079 --> 02:18:14,040
and Sabrina meet, Stacy immediately rips into Sabrina and they

2568
02:18:14,120 --> 02:18:17,360
immediately befom a rivalry.

2569
02:18:17,440 --> 02:18:22,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, more sex, probably because Sabrina as an actress is

2570
02:18:22,079 --> 02:18:26,079
limited and so they were able to give her more

2571
02:18:26,680 --> 02:18:26,959
to do.

2572
02:18:27,719 --> 02:18:31,799
Speaker 2: In the book, Brina bring that to life, Yeah, well.

2573
02:18:31,639 --> 02:18:33,559
Speaker 6: Actually this is only the real moment that she actually

2574
02:18:33,639 --> 02:18:37,959
shines in the book, oddly enough, and then because also

2575
02:18:38,360 --> 02:18:41,040
around this in the in the same time of the movie,

2576
02:18:41,879 --> 02:18:45,280
like as you know, is also when she meets Lawrence

2577
02:18:45,639 --> 02:18:48,079
and begins a thing with him. In the book, when

2578
02:18:48,079 --> 02:18:50,680
they first meet, he sneaks into a dressing room and

2579
02:18:50,719 --> 02:18:54,719
they have sex and Lawrence immediately falls in love with her. Yeah,

2580
02:18:54,760 --> 02:18:58,040
Stacy is better. Stacey's a lot more manipulative. When Arnold

2581
02:18:58,079 --> 02:19:01,479
finds out about their fair, she does this whole thing

2582
02:19:01,479 --> 02:19:03,840
where she like literally pretends to start packing up and leaving,

2583
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:05,840
and he has this like giant breakdown. Don't leave me,

2584
02:19:05,879 --> 02:19:06,399
don't leave me.

2585
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:09,159
Speaker 2: I have a little bit of that in the movie. Yeah,

2586
02:19:09,159 --> 02:19:09,719
where it gets.

2587
02:19:09,639 --> 02:19:11,799
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it's a lot more intense though, like Stacy

2588
02:19:12,000 --> 02:19:14,959
actually fakes remorse for what she did. She's like, h

2589
02:19:15,520 --> 02:19:17,879
I feel so bad, Like I guess you won't want me.

2590
02:19:18,360 --> 02:19:22,280
She goes forlornly to like pack up and things, and he's.

2591
02:19:22,120 --> 02:19:23,159
Speaker 2: Like no, no, no no.

2592
02:19:23,840 --> 02:19:26,520
Speaker 6: Then the other big thing, Larry actually does meet with

2593
02:19:26,559 --> 02:19:30,079
her before the show onlike in the movie, but is

2594
02:19:30,120 --> 02:19:34,959
taken away and then in a darker in even darker

2595
02:19:35,079 --> 02:19:38,559
than the ending to the film, Stacy larly walks out

2596
02:19:38,920 --> 02:19:41,600
with the clothes on her back from the club. Arnold

2597
02:19:41,639 --> 02:19:44,920
takes the apartment keys out of her hand after the

2598
02:19:44,959 --> 02:19:48,200
whole scuffle in the back room, so she once again

2599
02:19:48,239 --> 02:19:51,639
walks out. Oh and in this one, her outfit, her

2600
02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:55,639
club outfit is a fitted leather dress with tall, like

2601
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:59,719
knee high boots. So she walks out like she did

2602
02:20:00,079 --> 02:20:03,239
in the carnival, in her outfit and just a coat

2603
02:20:03,319 --> 02:20:05,479
over her back, out into the streets.

2604
02:20:05,520 --> 02:20:07,639
Speaker 5: That yeah, I like that though.

2605
02:20:07,520 --> 02:20:09,799
Speaker 6: Mm hmm. Yeah, very good book. I kind of want

2606
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:12,079
to contact the grandson and ask if he's interested in

2607
02:20:12,079 --> 02:20:14,040
like re release it. It's a good little novel. I

2608
02:20:14,200 --> 02:20:14,719
liked a lot.

2609
02:20:15,799 --> 02:20:16,200
Speaker 2: We'll see.

2610
02:20:16,200 --> 02:20:17,959
Speaker 5: That's the thing. If somebody was going to be, you know,

2611
02:20:18,360 --> 02:20:21,760
his grands re issuing, if someone's going to be reissuing

2612
02:20:21,840 --> 02:20:25,639
this on fucking blu ray do it paperback reissue tie

2613
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:30,639
in several Yeah, And since Severn has now established that

2614
02:20:30,719 --> 02:20:34,159
they can do business with this turd, then maybe they're

2615
02:20:34,200 --> 02:20:36,600
the plate, they're the people to do this. I would

2616
02:20:36,639 --> 02:20:38,479
love that that book to be reissued.

2617
02:20:38,840 --> 02:20:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. They have done like a small little paperback tie in,

2618
02:20:42,159 --> 02:20:43,440
have they They've hired.

2619
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:44,680
Speaker 6: They've done fresh ones.

2620
02:20:45,520 --> 02:20:47,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh that's true. They have done fresh ones. Yes,

2621
02:20:47,760 --> 02:20:51,120
that's true. No, they Yeah, they haven't done reissues of

2622
02:20:51,200 --> 02:20:54,760
existing books that they have had paperback tie in novels

2623
02:20:55,360 --> 02:20:57,280
like they did. Then they do nine of the Demon one.

2624
02:20:57,360 --> 02:20:58,479
There's a bunch on the website.

2625
02:20:58,479 --> 02:21:00,399
Speaker 6: I never I'm not interested men.

2626
02:21:00,719 --> 02:21:04,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I like that they do it, but I'm not. Yeah,

2627
02:21:04,319 --> 02:21:06,959
I think so, I'm not. Yeah, it's not like we're

2628
02:21:07,159 --> 02:21:10,559
arrow repressed the Blood Feast paperback for that box set

2629
02:21:10,600 --> 02:21:12,479
that I bought. I still haven't read that yet.

2630
02:21:12,920 --> 02:21:16,639
Speaker 6: I'm interested in nobilizations at the time because again, like

2631
02:21:16,719 --> 02:21:19,399
I got this hoping that this was based off the

2632
02:21:19,440 --> 02:21:22,520
script and I would maybe figure out what was missing.

2633
02:21:22,959 --> 02:21:25,200
But this takes too many liberties. There's just too many

2634
02:21:25,239 --> 02:21:29,559
liberties for this. But you know, as like horror fans know,

2635
02:21:29,719 --> 02:21:32,760
like April Fool Say and stuff, novelizations can have alternate

2636
02:21:32,760 --> 02:21:35,200
stuff in them. Yeah, that's kind of That's kind of

2637
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:39,959
what's interesting about novelizations from that time. Nowadays you do

2638
02:21:40,159 --> 02:21:43,760
just watch the movie and it's just the fans. I see,

2639
02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:45,879
like people like them. Some people like them, they're.

2640
02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:47,959
Speaker 5: Not forget the appeal, but they're just not for me.

2641
02:21:48,000 --> 02:21:50,000
I'd rather see and I'm well.

2642
02:21:49,760 --> 02:21:52,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want Yeah, that's what I want.

2643
02:21:52,280 --> 02:21:54,920
Speaker 5: Well, I know, you know what, something Viniger when District

2644
02:21:54,920 --> 02:21:56,840
Picts could do that because they're gonna be eventually be

2645
02:21:56,920 --> 02:22:00,520
putting out Starlet and that yes paperback time and which

2646
02:22:00,559 --> 02:22:02,799
I also still need to read. That would be a

2647
02:22:02,799 --> 02:22:05,959
great reissue too. So it's you know, there there are

2648
02:22:06,120 --> 02:22:10,719
enough interesting examples that could be good reissues for sexploitation books,

2649
02:22:10,760 --> 02:22:12,879
but this is one that, like I remember, I bought

2650
02:22:12,920 --> 02:22:14,680
it years ago and I still haven't read it. It's

2651
02:22:14,680 --> 02:22:16,200
sitting on my night side. I was supposed to read

2652
02:22:16,200 --> 02:22:17,840
it before this episode, but I knew you were, so

2653
02:22:17,879 --> 02:22:18,360
I was gonna be.

2654
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:21,120
Speaker 6: I was gonna be good, folks. I'll put that out there.

2655
02:22:21,200 --> 02:22:24,479
Unlike like Olympic photo readers and things like that, this

2656
02:22:24,559 --> 02:22:27,959
could be found every once in the moon. I wouldn't

2657
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:30,159
pay more than twenty twenty five for it. I is

2658
02:22:30,200 --> 02:22:31,879
a good read. I do like it. Like I was

2659
02:22:31,879 --> 02:22:33,799
talking to another one of our palza who was like,

2660
02:22:34,159 --> 02:22:35,840
I wish this film had more sex. I was like,

2661
02:22:36,040 --> 02:22:38,719
you've got to read the book. It's the sexploitation version.

2662
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:42,520
Speaker 2: It's all it's the slast I'm not alone somebody else.

2663
02:22:42,600 --> 02:22:45,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's interesting to me though. Yeah, I mean the

2664
02:22:45,719 --> 02:22:49,280
lack of sex and that sexploitation movie has never bothered

2665
02:22:49,319 --> 02:22:53,520
me because I can if there's enough that's interesting in

2666
02:22:53,600 --> 02:22:56,920
it without the sex, then I'm like, that's great, you know,

2667
02:22:57,639 --> 02:22:59,799
I think if you go in. But honestly, I also

2668
02:23:00,120 --> 02:23:03,680
going with expectations into sex movies. Unless I go into

2669
02:23:03,719 --> 02:23:05,120
a Barry Mayhon movie and think it's going to be

2670
02:23:05,200 --> 02:23:07,239
terrible and then there's that not to be then it's like,

2671
02:23:07,319 --> 02:23:08,959
oh wow, okay, great.

2672
02:23:08,760 --> 02:23:09,479
Speaker 2: I do like this.

2673
02:23:10,040 --> 02:23:12,520
Speaker 5: I go in with low expectations so that I tend

2674
02:23:12,520 --> 02:23:16,040
to be more impressed, and I kind of rate in

2675
02:23:16,079 --> 02:23:18,280
a higher grades expectation because I go in with low

2676
02:23:18,319 --> 02:23:21,920
expectations because I know the history of it and stuff

2677
02:23:21,920 --> 02:23:24,680
like that. So yeah, this is and this is so

2678
02:23:24,799 --> 02:23:27,479
early in the genre anyway. But yeah, I think when

2679
02:23:27,520 --> 02:23:31,200
you're when you're considering that Olga came to the screens

2680
02:23:31,239 --> 02:23:35,200
two years later, technically four years after production of this movie.

2681
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:37,360
You know, I can't believe it took two years for

2682
02:23:37,399 --> 02:23:38,799
this thing to come out, but.

2683
02:23:39,719 --> 02:23:42,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, it came out in nineteen sixty two. It was

2684
02:23:42,520 --> 02:23:47,360
finished at the very end of nineteen sixty year.

2685
02:23:47,760 --> 02:23:49,280
Speaker 5: Oh they shot it in December of sixty.

2686
02:23:49,600 --> 02:23:52,280
Speaker 6: No, it was shot in October. Shot October. They must

2687
02:23:52,280 --> 02:23:52,680
have cut it.

2688
02:23:52,760 --> 02:23:55,680
Speaker 5: Ohtober sixty. Okay, God, that's a long time to take

2689
02:23:55,680 --> 02:23:56,120
to cut it.

2690
02:23:56,200 --> 02:23:59,319
Speaker 6: I know. Wow, Well they did at least cut it

2691
02:23:59,399 --> 02:24:02,840
like nineteen sixty. Then it was who knows what was

2692
02:24:02,879 --> 02:24:05,920
going on for a year spam so long.

2693
02:24:06,680 --> 02:24:10,959
Speaker 2: That's really how much they were probably deciding, you know,

2694
02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:13,120
how far they wanted to push some of these scenes.

2695
02:24:13,479 --> 02:24:15,760
That's true. I bet they were like, Okay, is this

2696
02:24:15,799 --> 02:24:18,799
going to be a straight up mainstream, get this as

2697
02:24:18,840 --> 02:24:20,719
many theaters as possible type of thing, or.

2698
02:24:20,760 --> 02:24:23,680
Speaker 6: Is this Yeah, I wonder if this weird company, Cosmic Films,

2699
02:24:23,760 --> 02:24:25,399
was like one of the few, was like I'll try

2700
02:24:25,440 --> 02:24:28,719
it all right, whoever, whoever these people were.

2701
02:24:28,639 --> 02:24:31,719
Speaker 2: Whoever they were right, Yeah, I don't know.

2702
02:24:31,959 --> 02:24:34,360
Speaker 6: But it's because yeah, I mean like in art film

2703
02:24:34,399 --> 02:24:37,239
distributor like like like back when like Joseph Brenner and

2704
02:24:37,319 --> 02:24:39,159
Sam Lake were doing just like art films things like that,

2705
02:24:39,200 --> 02:24:42,479
Like they couldn't have done this film in the general

2706
02:24:42,520 --> 02:24:44,280
release market. They weren't really doing.

2707
02:24:44,040 --> 02:24:47,040
Speaker 5: That, No, because yeah, exactly, Well, except for Joe Brenner

2708
02:24:47,079 --> 02:24:49,239
handled the Seducers. I think that was his attempt to

2709
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:51,719
do something like this where it was something a little

2710
02:24:51,760 --> 02:24:55,520
that was a little more mainstream. But even then, Yeah,

2711
02:24:55,559 --> 02:24:57,559
he did not do that for that long. I mean

2712
02:24:57,600 --> 02:25:01,920
he went back into the gutter pretty quickly. Everyone had

2713
02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:04,120
to try to get a little more substantial business with

2714
02:25:04,239 --> 02:25:06,520
so Sam Bordon I think tried at once too, didn't he.

2715
02:25:06,639 --> 02:25:09,239
We talked about that like with one like it wasn't

2716
02:25:09,319 --> 02:25:12,239
nudes of all nations substance substantially more of a well

2717
02:25:12,440 --> 02:25:14,120
that's still s exploitation, so I guess not.

2718
02:25:14,319 --> 02:25:18,079
Speaker 6: Well, well, I also I'm still flabbergast says to why

2719
02:25:18,079 --> 02:25:20,159
he even handled my baby as black, Like, was that

2720
02:25:20,200 --> 02:25:22,879
an attempt to do something? I don't know what us

2721
02:25:22,959 --> 02:25:23,479
up with that?

2722
02:25:23,479 --> 02:25:26,040
Speaker 2: That title, I don't know, that's so strange.

2723
02:25:26,120 --> 02:25:28,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, that from at least.

2724
02:25:28,280 --> 02:25:30,799
Speaker 5: Checker Checkerboard is a title that could pass as an

2725
02:25:30,920 --> 02:25:32,760
art film, and it is an art film. When you

2726
02:25:32,799 --> 02:25:34,799
watch the film, it's such an art it's such an artsy,

2727
02:25:34,840 --> 02:25:35,879
fartsy French movie.

2728
02:25:36,200 --> 02:25:38,159
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I was like, was was he going for

2729
02:25:38,200 --> 02:25:41,920
like a more general exploitation shocker with that title and

2730
02:25:41,959 --> 02:25:44,000
stuff that title.

2731
02:25:43,719 --> 02:25:47,319
Speaker 5: For sure, Yes, but then checker I would think Checkerboard

2732
02:25:47,360 --> 02:25:49,399
would be his attempt to be like a crossover because

2733
02:25:49,479 --> 02:25:51,719
checker Board, I mean, Checkerboard is the kind of movie

2734
02:25:51,760 --> 02:25:55,239
that I could see someasy sex watata producer thinking I

2735
02:25:55,239 --> 02:25:57,799
can submit to the Academy for some awards or something.

2736
02:25:58,319 --> 02:26:02,799
No chance in hell. You know, somebody, somebody with with

2737
02:26:03,719 --> 02:26:07,360
the taste of some of these distributors would think that

2738
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:11,799
something is art whend isn't necessarily you know, art. Yeah,

2739
02:26:11,840 --> 02:26:14,639
I guess I understand why you kind of let your

2740
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:16,559
feelings about that saying there wasn't.

2741
02:26:17,280 --> 02:26:20,319
Speaker 2: I was looking for more sex necessarily, but just more

2742
02:26:20,559 --> 02:26:23,920
like fetish imagery. You know. Right when it opens, the

2743
02:26:23,920 --> 02:26:26,000
credits are like, oh, they're gonna have they have a

2744
02:26:26,079 --> 02:26:30,920
leather wardrobe consultant and lingerie and furs and footwear. I'm like, oh,

2745
02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:34,319
let's let's and it kind of goes by really fast,

2746
02:26:34,399 --> 02:26:37,000
like yeah, she grabs a fur out of the closet

2747
02:26:37,079 --> 02:26:39,120
and then you don't see it again. It's just like

2748
02:26:39,200 --> 02:26:40,920
I wanted more more.

2749
02:26:41,360 --> 02:26:44,600
Speaker 6: Yeah. Again, with with the Bertman connection, I was a

2750
02:26:44,600 --> 02:26:46,719
little mystified, and yeah, it's just.

2751
02:26:46,639 --> 02:26:49,399
Speaker 2: Like this is a guy who's like into this stuff,

2752
02:26:49,520 --> 02:26:51,760
let's see more of it. I don't know, but okay,

2753
02:26:51,959 --> 02:26:55,000
it's the time. Like I said, a few years later,

2754
02:26:55,079 --> 02:26:57,959
maybe he could have gotten away with it, but maybe

2755
02:26:57,959 --> 02:26:59,520
that's what they were cutting, you know for.

2756
02:26:59,520 --> 02:27:03,520
Speaker 6: So imagine if this guy inserts, Jerry came back, did inserts.

2757
02:27:03,479 --> 02:27:06,559
Speaker 2: Let's not do that to Meg. Don't do that to Meg. Well,

2758
02:27:06,559 --> 02:27:08,639
that's the thing. We don't know. We don't, we don't.

2759
02:27:08,879 --> 02:27:10,440
Speaker 5: We don't know what those are.

2760
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:12,319
Speaker 2: Maybe they're you know, maybe he did.

2761
02:27:13,520 --> 02:27:14,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe he did.

2762
02:27:15,000 --> 02:27:15,440
Speaker 2: We don't know.

2763
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:18,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, kind of like yeah, it makes me think of

2764
02:27:18,159 --> 02:27:22,840
like the Moonline wives thing where mostly where mostly but

2765
02:27:22,920 --> 02:27:25,440
like occasionally you did get the slightly hotter one.

2766
02:27:25,879 --> 02:27:28,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think at this point, Yeah, I

2767
02:27:28,639 --> 02:27:29,000
don't know.

2768
02:27:29,639 --> 02:27:32,440
Speaker 5: I think going in this exploitation, I first of all,

2769
02:27:32,479 --> 02:27:34,200
I never expect it's going to match what I've heard

2770
02:27:34,239 --> 02:27:37,239
about the film, or it's going to match the advertising. Yeah,

2771
02:27:37,280 --> 02:27:39,120
I've always loved this because I went in, I don't

2772
02:27:39,159 --> 02:27:41,440
know what I went expecting. I think also because it's

2773
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:43,520
because it was a sexy shocker when I first saw it,

2774
02:27:43,680 --> 02:27:46,600
and so I was expecting it to be like more

2775
02:27:47,159 --> 02:27:49,479
a sexy shocker and it's not it's like a really

2776
02:27:49,639 --> 02:27:53,399
terrific melodrama. And so yeah, I don't need any of

2777
02:27:53,479 --> 02:27:55,319
the stuff that the film is promising and the advatas

2778
02:27:55,360 --> 02:27:58,000
a campaign, because it won me over with the performances,

2779
02:27:58,040 --> 02:28:00,600
the cinematography. It works as a film. So I don't

2780
02:28:00,639 --> 02:28:04,479
need it to be kinky or sexy or any of

2781
02:28:04,559 --> 02:28:06,360
that stuff. But I can understand why.

2782
02:28:06,920 --> 02:28:07,639
Speaker 2: I think that's.

2783
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:10,399
Speaker 5: Probably why it got the reviews that it got. That

2784
02:28:10,559 --> 02:28:12,559
kind of minds me of Vincent can be raking memories

2785
02:28:12,600 --> 02:28:14,319
of the Missaggi over the coole, saying like, well, this

2786
02:28:14,399 --> 02:28:16,399
is a porno movie and it's really slow and boring,

2787
02:28:16,399 --> 02:28:18,760
and he thinks that he's Bergmann and Baha, It's like, well,

2788
02:28:18,799 --> 02:28:21,639
maybe lock into the fact that it's a well made

2789
02:28:21,719 --> 02:28:24,680
movie and maybe, yeah, I'm sorry, you can't jerk your

2790
02:28:24,719 --> 02:28:27,120
girkin in the theater watching members of the miss Aggy.

2791
02:28:27,479 --> 02:28:29,840
Maybe focus on the filmmaking aspects of it, like you're

2792
02:28:29,840 --> 02:28:31,319
a New York Times reviewer that you are.

2793
02:28:32,959 --> 02:28:36,319
Speaker 2: I'm but looking forward to rewatching it, that's for sure,

2794
02:28:36,360 --> 02:28:38,440
because now I have, like you know, I don't have

2795
02:28:38,559 --> 02:28:39,760
those expectations.

2796
02:28:39,840 --> 02:28:42,840
Speaker 6: Yeah I did. I liked the baron to rewatch I

2797
02:28:42,840 --> 02:28:44,920
appreciate it when my first side, but then I had

2798
02:28:44,959 --> 02:28:46,600
to take a couple of years.

2799
02:28:47,559 --> 02:28:48,719
Speaker 2: Actually, you know what you should do?

2800
02:28:49,319 --> 02:28:51,760
Speaker 5: Watch Oh yeah, you don't have the DVD, right, you

2801
02:28:51,799 --> 02:28:52,879
watched this on YouTube?

2802
02:28:53,440 --> 02:28:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have the DVA.

2803
02:28:54,760 --> 02:28:57,200
Speaker 5: Okay, oh yeah, see if you watch the DVD. If

2804
02:28:57,200 --> 02:28:59,280
you have the DVD, you can then watch The Wild

2805
02:28:59,319 --> 02:29:03,479
and the Naked to get your exploitation Jolly's and then

2806
02:29:03,520 --> 02:29:05,719
go back to Satan and I heels and be like, Okay,

2807
02:29:05,760 --> 02:29:08,879
this is like a legitimate sordid melodrama I have.

2808
02:29:09,879 --> 02:29:12,799
Speaker 2: I have access to the Wild and the Naked.

2809
02:29:13,399 --> 02:29:16,879
Speaker 5: So yeah, so watch that, watch that, and then be like,

2810
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:18,440
this is the ship that was coming out in nineteen

2811
02:29:18,479 --> 02:29:21,479
sixty two, and then go back and be like, Okay,

2812
02:29:21,600 --> 02:29:23,879
that's why this is elevated exploitation.

2813
02:29:24,559 --> 02:29:27,159
Speaker 2: Wild and then Naked is exhausting.

2814
02:29:30,760 --> 02:29:35,120
Speaker 6: So much running, I mean exhausting for her, sure, but.

2815
02:29:35,079 --> 02:29:37,079
Speaker 2: Yeah for me to watch as well.

2816
02:29:37,239 --> 02:29:41,440
Speaker 5: I know it's not Wait, there's more running in Passion,

2817
02:29:41,479 --> 02:29:45,760
and I think there's way that loop scream over and over.

2818
02:29:46,600 --> 02:29:50,639
Speaker 6: You know what, I have waiting for the French girly

2819
02:29:50,760 --> 02:29:53,479
to look over the reservoir and see Passion. The sun

2820
02:29:53,559 --> 02:29:57,079
girly running past with the suitcase they have.

2821
02:29:57,280 --> 02:30:17,879
Speaker 5: They have mirror experiences.

2822
02:30:00,479 --> 02:30:39,840
Speaker 8: It didn't stinking nattle Dona.

2823
02:31:02,600 --> 02:31:05,239
Speaker 2: I don't care if you can breathe or not. You'llware

2824
02:31:05,319 --> 02:31:06,879
a girdle and smile.

2825
02:31:16,959 --> 02:31:19,760
Speaker 6: Thank you for listening to hear more shows from the

2826
02:31:19,840 --> 02:31:22,159
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.

2827
02:31:22,559 --> 02:31:30,959
Speaker 2: Please select the link in the description. Are you a

2828
02:31:31,079 --> 02:31:34,959
film fan who loves the ultimate home video experience, look

2829
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:39,120
no further than the Discconnected. Your host, Ryan Verel, is

2830
02:31:39,159 --> 02:31:41,840
your go to source for the latest and most accurate

2831
02:31:41,920 --> 02:31:46,200
information on home video releases, exclusive interviews with industry insiders

2832
02:31:46,239 --> 02:31:49,959
and filmmakers, and has established a thriving community where every

2833
02:31:50,120 --> 02:31:54,559
film and physical media enthusiast feels welcome. From hidden gems

2834
02:31:54,639 --> 02:31:58,959
to blockbuster hits, the Discconnected brings you insider knowledge and

2835
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:02,120
a welcoming space to share your love of cinema. Watch

2836
02:32:02,239 --> 02:32:05,760
every Thursday night at nine thirty Eastern six thirty Pacific

2837
02:32:05,879 --> 02:32:09,280
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2838
02:32:09,440 --> 02:32:13,520
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2839
02:32:13,680 --> 02:32:16,840
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2840
02:32:17,040 --> 02:32:19,799
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2841
02:32:19,840 --> 02:32:20,360
adventure