Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate, body and soul or
should I just say bunny?
Speaker 2: Hello, Filthy movie lovers, Something Weirdos and anti Criterion Bros.
To the thirty third episode of The Sin Syndicate, the
only podcast with a leather wardrobe, consultant lingerie by Lady
Marlene and a no photos edict on the set. My
name is Gentry Austen, writer and researcher, and I'm here
with my co host, adult film historian Casey Scott. And
in this week's episode, we will be putting on our
finest footwear and pulling out our stiffest riding crop for
a look at a family nightclub drama with a dash
of fetishism director Jerry Introteur's Bad Girls Do It Well
pulp noir Satan in high heels.
Speaker 3: I'm the kind of woman not hot, understand. I'm the
one who cracks the whip and holds the upper hand.
I'll bet you mystery you till you quivering quail. The
female of the species is more deadly than the male.
Speaker 4: When you mess with me off, I am around with
the flame. When you find that you've been burned, you've
only yourself the flame I'll hurt.
Speaker 3: You, desert you if you ever should fail. The female
of the species is more deadly than the man I
would if I could.
Speaker 2: Joining us again is the young og Alex DeSanto, a
paperback officionado who will be providing some important insight into
the literary origins of this film, among other things. But
we've got a stacked show notes this week. Boys, let's
get right into it with our news and updates from
the past couple weeks. I thought we'd start with a
quick recap of last episode, The Most Beautiful Woman in
the World, which featured writer arkivist Michael Bowen, who joined
us in the shadow of Peggy Sarno's death for a
sort of free wheeling conversation. I know we intended to
cover the film Anything for Money by Joe Sarno, but
we didn't quite do that like we usually do. But
sometimes circumstances change, and I'm happy with how it turned out.
What do you guys think, Casey, I think you got
some feedback. I loved it. I didn't know.
Speaker 5: Well, the thing is, I send you the audio files
and then you do what you do, and so I was.
I was listening to it. First of all, I looked
at the runtime, I was like three hours because readers,
you don't know this. We talked to him for two
and a half more hours after we stopped recording. It
was it was like five Basically, we held a week
for Peggy because we get in the wig of all
of that. But also I think because as Michael talked about,
he's working on another project now that is not related
to exploitation for him. So for him to kind of
dive back into talking shop with us where we're asking
the you know, the quote unquote right questions and we're
we're obviously passionate about it, I think it really got
his motor running, and so he really just wanted to
keep talking and I'm glad we were able to do that.
You know, we did get really good feedback. I'm not
going to credit who it is, but uh so we
got this message we have a group chat with somebody
who will be on the show next week. We'll leave
it that there. So he said, Okay, I listened to
the Sarno Bowen episode on my drive today. That needs
to be packaged up and put in the Library of Congress,
the Kinsey Institute in a copy place. In the next
capsule NASA sends into outer space representing mankind extraterrestrials. I
was honestly so worn out by it in a good way.
Put Michael in some kind of protective custody until he
gets these books out, and uh, yeah, I co sign
all of that because you know, typically I will listen
to our episodes a few times, because I also add
to the letterbox list of all the master movies and things,
and that was reliving. It was was exhausting in a
good way because there was so much covered. It wasn't
just Sarno, Like we diverted into Wishman and we diverted
like yeah, it was a jumped all over the place,
but in the best way possible. And I think going forward,
if we're going to have somebody who's an expert and
a certain filmmaker, it might be best to just do
that kind of conversation kind of kind of like what
we did with Lisa, where was just about something weird
and Dave Friedman. I think if we try to stick
to one film, it kind of restricts it. And so
with Bowen, he was able to talk about every aspect
of Sarno's life and career and then Peggy's life and career.
So I think it worked out really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you, Alex, did you would you think
looking back, I'm mirroring the exact same thing.
Speaker 6: I need to go back and take notes. You go
back and taken notes research.
Speaker 2: I need to. Yeah, I need you too.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And also, folks, just just let you know, because
it hasn't been me available yet. Anything for money is
available to watch on YouTube until someone takes it down.
So just go watch it. Honestly, just go watch it
and learn that it's a great start out.
Speaker 5: I'm surprised somebody hasn't put it up on archive dot
org actually, because you can get away with anything on
archived dot org. There are pink films, very graphic pink
films on there that have been up for years. So
maybe that's where if it gets taken down, whoever put
it up, If if you're listening, put it on archive
dot org and tell a certain company to sides that
they're going to reissue it whenever that is. But we'll
have a conversation with that person, probably on this show
at some point.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we want to put a link
to that YouTube or not. I didn't know it was
on YouTube. YouTube is the easiest thing to search. Just
go find it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not gonna help you find it's right there.
Speaker 2: Okay, right, Yeah. I mean people, we've had this discussion before,
people that are like where do I watch this? And
I'm always like, I don't know how to answer this question.
Speaker 5: I don't know, Well then you should not. Yeah, like
I told, I think you asked about a certain film
and I was like, yeah, just a standard. A standard
thing is I have access to the to the home
video release of this, And that's kind of it. It's
you know, it's it, because then anything else kind of
invites the invites the possibility. Then you're sending them a
file and if you don't want to do that, then
it kind of leaves you looking like like your gatekeeping stuff.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 5: I just want the movie to come out in a
good condition, and I feel like if it's spread around
too much in in covert ways, then maybe it won't.
I mean, there's there's levels to this.
Speaker 2: I get it, and yeah, let's and this segues into
our other note here where we I stumbled on this
YouTube account that has all these AI upscaled sexploitation movies,
and it's they're like credited as, oh, four K, come
watch four K of a Good Time with a Bad Girl.
It's just like, this is not a legit four K,
but that's how they're advertising it. And people I've seen
reviews on letterbox. This guy's like, oh, yeah, go watch
it incident four K. I'm like, dude, do you know
what this is? This is garbage?
Speaker 5: Like so spoiler alert that review might be the person
who actually did the AI upscaling it. Why else would
they say I watched it in four K? You guys
who never even can Who else raves about oh my god,
it's in four K in a review unless it's the
person responsible.
Speaker 2: I think there are like weirdo freaks out there that
are like obsessed with anything for like, if it's as
four K, they're like, yes, they think this is some
very special, rare thing that they can like brag about it.
Speaker 6: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 5: And it's an AI upscale from the DVD rip. Yes, well,
I will say, like the adults, the adult side, those
of us who you know sail the pirate sees and
put it that way. Looking for rare stuff. I've had
to deal with AI upscaled versions of classic gay porn
and straight porn for a long time, and I am
always one of the comments because sometimes they won't they
won't tag it it's AI upscale. Now watch it, and
it's gross and the movements are weird especial if you're
working from an old VHS source. It really looks so
unnatural and disgusting. So I'm the person in the comment saying,
why did you do this? You destroyed this film? Yeah,
and they get really offended. I'm like, this doesn't make
the film look better. I don't know if you have glaucoma,
I don't know what the issue is. Any normal I
will notice this does not look good. So, yeah, it's
and they do it, I think so that they can
get you know, they can get download points or whatever,
or their ratio can go up on those certain sites,
and it's just like just.
Speaker 6: So the HD.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they can just like in it as like, oh,
this is an HD, and people that are searching for things,
you know, they're going to prefer something that's in HD
without really realizing like this was never you know, this
was never scanned in HD. So this is clearly an upscale.
Speaker 5: And in any cases it never will be because a
lot of those films, the elements are gone, especially in
classic Gabehorn, we have like all of Joe Gage's stuff,
all that all those elements are gone, So all of
his stuff has been upscaled in AI, and it just
looks so revolting and disgusting. And I also got to
tell you money shots in AI look look especially revolting
because they look so unnatural and so fake and weird
and animated. And so I'm just like, this is what
is this? Who is co signing this? And who is
accepting this? It's very strange.
Speaker 2: Well, let me just lastly just say, yeah, the black
and white stuff doesn't look as bad, but the color
stuff definitely. You can notice the AI upscaling. It looks
it's it's it's butchering the films. We're not gatekeeping here,
Like we know, YouTube is the most accessible place to
find films for especially people that are in other countries
that don't have access to this stuff. But just there's
there's got to be a better way to do this
than to go on YouTube and watch this crap go ahead.
Speaker 6: And so I don't even know how they're doing it.
YouTube should have taken this down centuries ago. We were
just talking about this YouTube. You say that out so badly.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 6: I've gotten two channels removed for like secretly like making
links for other people on this stuff. Any think it's like,
how are they still here?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I've had stuff taking down for music. I actually had
Trauma had one of my videos taken down because it
was from one of the X rated movies Lloyd Kaufman made.
And Michael Hurrs is very insistent on people don't know
that Trauma was a porn company in the seventies, even
though it's all out there in the open, been in
in writing on posters and shit. So yeah, I got
a notification Michael Hers and Trauma Inc. Has submitted a
copyright claim on your video. And I was like, huh, interesting, Michael,
I thought you so you own the movie. You're just
saying you didn't make it. I see, okay, why do
you own born Michael? What's the what's the what's the issue?
So yeah, there, yeah, YouTube. Yeah, I can't imagine. I
can't believe YouTube was leaving. That's why I'm shocking anything
for money still up? I mean there is nudity in
that right?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I posted a very short clip a long time ago
from anything for Money, and I forgot that like you
can you can barely see you, like you know Joanna
Mills's areola, and that got flat. So I have no
idea what's going on with this this account that is
I mean, they have like russ Meyer films in and
they're incredibly litigious, So who the hell is letting that happen?
I just checked, Yes, the site that this YouTube account
is still up, so it's got nine thousand subscribers. Hey
us if you want to take a look at it,
but we're not going to post.
Speaker 5: No, do not DM us about this. You should not
put your eyes on. Don't put you don't we're not
we're any because any clicks on that profile will automatically
generate something good for that profile in terms of the algorithm,
in terms of views, in terms of attention. No, so
that click you just clicked on Gentry, that will be
your last click and not give them any more attention
because it's obviously it's probably monetized too, so they probably
get money from every click and view. So yeah, what's
the remember that remember the Simpsons song just don't look.
Just don't look, just don't look, just don't look.
Speaker 2: Uh New Beverly updates what's going on over there? Do
we want to talk about? What if it's been a
couple of weeks. What have they screened? Yesn't they screened?
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're twenty today's the twenty first, so we're twenty
one days into this marathon thing.
Speaker 4: Much.
Speaker 5: I've gotten a lot more feedback on this where people
thought it was going to be a little too harsh
on them, and I was like, listen, I love the idea,
but like I said, I think if there was more
intention with the way this was done, it would have
been more successful instead it really and then I apparently
heard that there were more people involved with programming this
than I would have realized. It wasn't just like one
person who's just like, well, what prince.
Speaker 2: Do we have?
Speaker 5: So that makes it even worse to me. It's kind
of like, wait, there were a lot of hands in
this pie and they still couldn't get a handle on this.
The big one that I remember well, Smell of Honey.
I did a pre ative letterbox review after I had
had like twelve beers, and I was just like new
Beverly crowd. You need to understand, like Stacy Walker is
incredible and she walked off camera into a terrible marriage
with this asshole who abandoned her. Like the end of
the movie is sad for me because of that, because
it's like we're never going to see her again. So
as disturbing as not, you know what's the word, as
problematic as that movie is, I think outside of the
film is more disturbing to me because you know, Stacy
Walker got shafted ingo. We found out was missing the
mansturbation sequence, which is the centerpiece of the fucking movie.
And so I'm just like got and so people giving
it like two and a half stars, two stars. Someone
gave it a half star. You sent me a reviewer.
It was some woman who was playing victims saying I
was the only woman in the theater full of men.
I was like, listen, Gloria Steine, I'm sure you were fine,
and I'm sure you weren't the only woman there, because
that's not how the New Beverly works. There are all
sorts of alt women that go to their screenings.
Speaker 6: So no, and also it was the second film. You
could have left it the second film you could have
walked out.
Speaker 5: I think Bergmann movie, if they were on a date,
then that's that's a weird date, because yeah, I don't know,
But then then I would question the good person who
brought me. But the fact that, uh yeah, people saw
this and I think there was other part of a
sex scene missing too, so I.
Speaker 2: Think at the end was yeah, there was something missing
at the end as well.
Speaker 5: Right, And I think people also problems with the fact
that she was a seventeen year old girl being like
pimped up by your aunt and I'm like, welcome to
sarn know, like, come on now. With Sarno films, I
have a lot of family members doing terrible things of
each other, and that's just you know, they That's something
I wish we'd asked about one about It's like, what
the fuck is up with family members trying to seduce
each other or trying to pimp each other out? And
that's a recurring theme in his films, where family members
are really corrupt towards each other. Yeah, but yeah, I
think the the feedwick hasn't been terrible. What was the
one where I was commenting on people's stuff, Oh, Black
and Manual. Yeah, a movie I don't even love but
I was defending Laura Gemzer and kind of telling people,
and someone was like, I just got bored and was
uh looking at the emust counting the emotional scars, and
I was like, well, that's really sad for you because
you're getting to see this most one of the most
beautiful women who's ever been photographed on the big screen
on a print and you're counting emulsion scars. I I
think you might be broken, and I feel sad for you. Yeah,
I mean that's really kind of what is I don't
even hate you, I just feel sorry for you. Yeah,
bad situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to see if there was anything else
there that played that.
Speaker 5: We are all smell of honey for sure, which we
talked about. Yeah, apparently they brought af You brought one
of the private duty nurses out. They brought a guest
out for the worst movie of that triple feature for
student nurses private duty and young I was like, you
didn't get well Elaine Giftos wouldn't have shown up, but yeah,
I was like, you didn't even get one of the
student nurses to show up. You got one of the
private duty nurses. Joyce Williams though, which is available. Yeah,
I mean I would have liked to have seen her
because she's done other stuff I would have wanted to
talk to her about. But also you know what, you know,
what's torture at those things Q and A's at the
New Beverly. It's especially yeah, especially at that venue. It's
a lot of really bad questions. So it's not even questions,
just like I just have to say, like I really
like this movie and it reminded me of this time
in my life and this thing in my life. It's like,
this is not therapy, this is not the time for that.
This is when you when you corner them in after
the screening and make their life hell, don't make our
lives hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I heard too much about
Vixen and Up. But then again, I don't know if
I was really crawling through the recent reviews on that one.
Speaker 5: I don't know if it's got good feedback, which I'm
very surprised by because there is so much sexual assault
in that movie. Yeah, I don't know. They said said
it went overwhelmed with a crowd, which is interesting because
that's not like a not must not a Meyer crowd,
So I feel like maybe Up is good for I
don't know that many Meyer people that actually really like
that movie. I know a lot of non Myer people
that like that movie, and I think that's very strange
because I feel like stuff like Master Pussy, Common Luck
Cabin beyond the value of dolls, those are more indicative
of what Meyer movies are like.
Speaker 2: Well, and Erica Gavin was at the Vixen screening, so
maybe people were a little bit better behaved in there.
Speaker 5: That's possible. Well, that's the thing that they knew she
was gonna come. I really wish they period it with
beyond value of the dolls. Yeah, that would have made sense.
But Fox also is really weird about what they'll let
be shown theatrically, and they won't. They don't distribute prints anymore,
so they'd have to get like a private print and
Fox might not be cool about that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, tonight and tomorrow is well, tonight's the
Mitchell Brothers double feature that's fantasticing yea to them, and
then tomorrow's the Hardcore Horror with the Secret Surprise third feature,
which on that other podcast, the Official The Official New
Beverly Podcast, they were kind of raving about that third feature.
So I'm curious to see what that is.
Speaker 5: I'm intrigued because I don't know any other horror Triple
X horror movie that. Yeah, it's not lost.
Speaker 2: For years that apparently Vinegars.
Speaker 5: But if they had that, then why hasn't been reissued?
Speaker 2: They just find it? Yeah?
Speaker 5: It makes me really, I have questions.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. Yeah, all right, that's enough about
New Beverly. We rant about that. What's going on with these?
We got some more loss than in Limbo? Is this you? Uh?
Speaker 5: Oh j Yeah the Sweden find Oh my god, yes,
well yeah, I forgot about that because their stupid website
has has gone funky again and I can't find anything.
Speaker 6: Oh it keeps, it fluctuates, it fluctuates. I went back
on and they were there too. Yeah. So I had
posted about the fact because I had asked Michael. I
was like, Michael, can you please just tell me if
there's any elements for come right the Wild Pink Horse.
And all he said was, oh, there's a sixteen in
the UK that private collector has. So I put the
press book. I just like did a little thing to say, well,
it's it's Limbo now it's not lost. It's limbo now
because sixteen exists. Sean Langrick bless his soul, like contacts
me like an hour after I put that up, and
he goes a, were you aware that a German print
has screened twice here like fantastic and here America? No
in Germany? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, screen in Germany twice.
And then a minute after he goes, yeah, the Sweetest
sweirst film Institude has a sixteen millimere negative.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what doupneg Yeah, there's a sixteen milme negative?
Speaker 6: So I go on there and lo would behold. One
little distributor put out a small handful of Americans exploitation films,
two of them being well. Room eleven was one of them,
which we've already brought up. But there was also Come
Ride the Wild pick Horse, Bed of Violence too, Sandy
Johnson films in Fidel right and Justine Yeah, and some
other weird things. There's millionaires women switchero and I think
maybe such true Yeah, the.
Speaker 5: One that what's his name Don Greer did, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh, and also a nag a dupe, a thirty
five dupe nag for love rebellion as well. Maybe it's
an English also, yeah, there was also a Barry Mayhon
Oustberry Mayhon film, which one was that there was a
slavery one.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah white slaves.
Speaker 5: White slaves or something white slavery.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, they have a print of white slavery. And
then that of course lit a fire under my ass.
So I went along and found the seducers in Germany.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 6: German print or German print exists of that one. So
that's also around. So what was that three of our picks?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Four?
Speaker 6: Because infidelity was one of ours as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, oh yeah, because none of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, none of us picked bet of violence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like this is cool and all, but you know,
now what.
Speaker 5: Well, that's why I hesitate. That's why you probably noticed
in the chat that my excitement was slightly muted, just
because I feel like if these were because I think
even Michael said, oh yeah, I've known they've had those,
and I was just like, okay, then are they difficult
to deal with? Are or are they saying they don't
have them? It just makes it definitely makes me ask
more questions, and it makes me really want to ask
Club Super eight if they had to deal with Swedish
Film Institute. Yes, yeah, ask re Card and see what
he has to say, just because I mean I got
worried if they were like UCLA, where it's like, well
you need depending on who deposited that collection. If you're
not connected to who deposited, they won't let you take
it out, which is but if it's in defunked company,
then who the hell can't take it out? So then
you know, it's kind of begs that question. But I
know I'm glad that it's there, but I'm like, yeah,
let's get this.
Speaker 2: Let's get this shit rescued. Please.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and especially because I think most of them are
black and white, correct, so I know they're going to
look great, yes from negatives?
Speaker 2: Yeah please yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well also you mentioned the Seducers. Does remind me we
did get that sad piece of news from Michael as
well confirmation then Mishieva Britt unfortunately did pass away. And
this is also why public public record cannot always be trusted,
because public record still tells me she's alive. So yeah,
but he interviewed her twice, right, I think.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, we got something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so those books will come out actually something I
need to suggest Tom if he's going to do an
oral history, he should try to edit together from the
interviews a audiobook version so we can hear the people
actually say this. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be a lot of work, but yeah, that
would be coo.
Speaker 5: He doesn't have to do it. You have somebody else
do it.
Speaker 2: I would do it.
Speaker 5: I love editing. I'll do it.
Speaker 6: It's good. We'll see.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 5: That's the thing because if they were they were talking
like twenty no, twenty five years ago, a long time ago, Jesus,
because on my interviews without old two and they don't
sound they don't sound amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was one. I'm like, yeah, what
is the quality of those interviews?
Speaker 5: You have to do a lot of like work work
on those tapes, especially if they're over like because now
we have digital recordings, when you're doing it over like
the phone phone lines, just that phone static is very obvious.
That was a bummer. But now I really want to
see Seduces more because especially because the movie we're talking
about today makes me think that that might be they
might be similar, and that they're kind of aiming for
the stars with like professional people involved, right, I could
see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Graham Place resurgence. I think this was I
think this came up because I watched a few recently
and I.
Speaker 5: Was finally joined, you finally joined the club.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I don't understand why I have never heard
of him before talking to you guys like, Okay, give
us like a quick brief, you know, maybe we'll talk
about a Grand Place movie down the road, but give
us like a quick up.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like a Cliff's notes on him, because yeah.
Speaker 5: Well that's the thing we don't have. We don't have
a cliff Notes essentially, like you would you would ask
what if his credits are accurate? Basically he worked with
Anything on IMDb up to nineteen eighty is absolutely him
because it's where him working in New York, the New
York area with Ron Sullivan, Armond Weston, a lot of
other sex film people, Don Walters. It's all this Arthur Marx.
So he would work with Arthur Marx. Anytime we see
the credit Saint Mark's Place on anything, that's Arthur Marks
and Graham Place working together. So the issue is, I
don't know if I told the story before I was
Ron Sullivan, God rest his soul. When he found out
he was dying and he couldn't undergo Keino any longer,
and he was was basically biding his time. He sent
me an email with all of his contacts and said,
here's everyone that if you ever want to talk to
anybody about this time in the industry, here all of
these contacts. Tell them that I sent you even after
I'm gone, and that should work. I was like, God, Ron,
he didn't need to do that, but he just he
wanted to make sure I got the story. One of
those people was Don Walters. Emailed Don Walters while Ron
was alive, which may have been my mistake. And I
want I said, I wanted to talk about your group,
you know, to talk about you and Art in Grand
Place and Arthur Marx. I wanted to know about this
collective because the films you made together are amazing. He
was the nastiest, nastiest son of a bitch I've ever contacted.
He said, how dare you? How dare you bother Ron
as he's dying for my contact, and I was like,
that's not what happened. He unsolicited found out that he
was dying and he wanted and he we were talking anyway,
and he sent me all this shit and he was like,
and this person's dead this he said, one of this
person is dead. One is very is very busy. One
I would never put you in touch with because I
don't even know who you are. And while he was
so nasty, which is crazy because I met his wife,
Bondie Chillie Wilson's daughter. Bondie's amazing, but don nastiest, nastiest
guy I've ever ever spoken to, wow in any of
my years doing this work.
Speaker 2: And he wrote a lot of these Grand Place movies, right, yes, exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's involved with all these things like he I
think he wrote Anything once. Yeah, And that was the
one I really wanted to talk about because this movie
is really incredible, Like I want to know all about it.
So the three movies that Grand Place directed or anything
Once Room and Broad and The Procurer and I wrote
liner notes for I think I think all three of
them for something weird. They were reaching the districtick stuff.
And that's when lare on IMDb. Lawrence Cohen, former Variety reviewer,
called me up by name and said I was a
shill for like hyping up this director who was terrible
and a piece of shit. And so when you guys
finally saw these movies and were like, Wow, Okay, these
are really good, it lifted up so much baggage connected
to the Grand Place name. Because for years I was like, well,
maybe I'm delusional because I raged about these movies because
I wanted people to watch them, and this Variety critic
said that I was a piece of shit. Then I
was wrong. But the fact that you guys whose taste
I trust, agree with me makes him feel so much better.
It lifted all the baggage off the Grand Place name.
So I'm ready to go back into Grand Place land
because he's and I want I'd like to know if
he was responsible for all the other stuff that he's
credited for on IMDb, like the Men of Black Films.
I don't know if that's the Grand Place that we
know or not.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I saw those credits. I was just like,
this this is I don't know what to make of
all this. This is just so much we need to sort.
Speaker 5: And there's another Grand Place that's not connected. I'm like,
is that the same guy? So yeah, it needs more research.
But I kind of stopped because of the Don Walters
thing and the Lore thing. I was like, Okay, this
soured everything for me, and I'm just yeah, it's soured
it for me. Yeah, it's time to get back into
his stuff.
Speaker 2: Alex, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 6: Oh God, I've already gone on so long about him
and other ones. I feel like people are about to
be like really tired.
Speaker 5: People listening to find the Grand Place movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well here's the thing. It is such absolute stable.
Here's well, here's why again, Gentry. And then also until
Casey mentioned it like two months ago, I'd never really
heard about these either, except for like slightly in passing
because there's some of the most obscure year is something
weird exploitation releases. They're some of the most nightmarish wants
to find because they're in that distripix like Sam Lake catalog.
Speaker 5: Yep, and a lot of five years ago.
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of those have been nightmarish too, fine, Yeah,
even compared like the Harry No About catalog was around
for a lot longer, a lot of the other ones
were available for a lot longer. So like, besides things
like the playpen that were so quickly ceased and desisted,
those are like, without doubt, some of the the rarest
something weird releases in terms of exploitation.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I was watching anything once I had
to pause it. I was just I was so upset.
I was just like, I've never heard of this, this
is so far out of print. We need to we
need to talk to certain somebody like, yeah.
Speaker 5: I know, well, especially because it's It's, It's it is,
it's a no brainer triple It's three films by the
same director and all the same creative people involved too,
and Distripis actually has a relationship with Don Walters, and
Stephen has said he's going to try to fix things
between the two of us. He says he probably doesn't
even remember, and I'm like, well, you know, the North
doesn't forget. I remember, so you know, I please break
bread with this guy because he directed one of my
all time favorite no he wrote one of my all
time favorite sexploitation movies.
Speaker 2: And that's that's.
Speaker 5: Important to me. That movie made such an impact on
me because I thought it was one of the situations
like Alex, you think you've seen everything, and then he
stumbled upon this, and I'm like, oh my god, why.
Speaker 2: Isn't this better known?
Speaker 5: What it's you know, you wait through so much shit
and it's just like wow, Okay, people were still like
delivering stuff at the tail end of softcore. Yeah, and
the nags are there, exactly all there, exactly.
Speaker 6: Beautiful yeah, beautiful elements.
Speaker 5: Kristen Steen is the Charthard Procure. She's still around. Let's
let's interview her.
Speaker 2: We have leads on two of the people.
Speaker 5: From Anything once, so let's get them involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, I I yeah. I There aren't enough
distripicts releases of the black and white stuff on the
schedule that to please my soul, so I would love
for that to be the next one. I don't care
how I don't think. I don't care that there's no
name people involved. I think if you push it hard enough,
and we can help push it hard enough, I think
then I think people would give them a chance. For sure,
we already are exactly We're telling everybody to watch these
goddamn movies. I know, go watch them. You will not
be disappointed.
Speaker 2: Don't listen to lore. I was right.
Speaker 5: I think I feel so vindicated. Okay, that was a
major that was a major thing for me.
Speaker 6: Well, he was wrong, like a bunch of other ones,
like I went into this sport in house thinking it
think it was gonna be really bad, and I'm like, wait,
you've got to be kidding me. Yeah, or he doesn't
like stuff too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, he doesn't like stuff. He does also doesn't
like when films aim higher than this exploitation. And then
he's like yeah, he's like, well, this is supposed to
be sexy and it's not sexy. I'm like, okay, thank
you nineteen seventies mindset, like you know, yeah, well you
and I know, we all know.
Speaker 2: That the said Linda Boyce and Uda ericson sex scene
was not sexy. Is that what you're saying? Is that
what he wrote in the review? Well, I'm asking you
he said it. You said something about he didn't think
it was sexy.
Speaker 5: The shower sea was not typically typically who was about
something because he said he describes it he still called
softcore porn. I mean that's how old school he is.
So yeah, he said this is porn. This is supposed
to be erotic.
Speaker 2: All right, Anyways, it is fine.
Speaker 5: But also it's softcore and it's a different time, like
not everything is gonna match.
Speaker 6: Ironically, those scenes are decently erotically charged too, like they're good, right,
a good.
Speaker 5: Story and there's so much good story in acting around
it anyway, So even if the sex isn't good, it'll
events will be over and you move on to good
stuff in the movie too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah more stay tuned on that. Yeah,
we will keep pounding that drum.
Speaker 5: Yes, I trust us for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Let me do a quick personal promo here. I was
on If you follow us on the Instagram, the s
and Syndicate, you may have seen. I was on the
in Film We Trust podcast and just like Casey's doing
a solo commentary. It was kind of weird not having
him there, just kidding, you wouldn't want me there because
I would not have been that kind of No. I
didn't want yes, exactly, I didn't want you there. You're
in your safe space, right. I talked about my favorite
film lore. Yeah. So my Scottish, my new Scottish friend Liam.
I had messaged him a while back about maybe doing
something because I was really impressed with his podcast. I
listened to a few episodes, and you know, he takes it.
He's not just like watching these movies and you know,
surface level, making little jokes and moving on with his
life like, he looks at him pretty closely, and I
knew he would give Laura respectful analysis, which he absolutely did,
and I thought, I think it was a good episode.
And of course, any chance I get to talk about
Annie Bell, and if it's not completely obvious yet, I
am writing a book about Annie Bell, and that's kind
of out in the open now, so uh yeah, I'm
still trying to get the word out and I'm hoping
some dream publisher just contacts me and we can move forward.
But until then, I'm still just, yeah, just working on
the book as much as I can, and hopefully we
can do something down the road with it that's not
involving me putting up all the money and self publishing
it myself.
Speaker 5: So anyway from Mark Murray, have you talked to Mark Murray?
Speaker 2: Right, I've looked into what he's done, Yes, but I
have not spoken to him. So I will talk to him, Yes,
you should.
Speaker 5: He's very quick to help. He's yeah, and that already
read more book was a massive labor of love, and
so it's ver I can see a similar similar drive
and passion there, So I think you should talk to
him about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the more I look into like book publishing.
You know, I told you me Richie this as well.
I'm like, I can't even believe you're a Manuel. Book
got published, like you should be very proud of that.
It's kind of a miracle that, you know, you got
this giant hardcover book with tons of nudity in it
published like this is hard to do nowadays. Publishers are
not that adventurous.
Speaker 5: So well, also, we already talked to somebody who is
launching their own publishing arm named Michael Bowen.
Speaker 2: Yes, Michael Bowen first, and I know, I was like, hey,
do you want to I was like, no, he's got
to do his first.
Speaker 5: Yes, let him do all three first, and then he
needs to keep yeah, keep the line going right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, there was a my friend Maddie. She released
a little handcrafted zine called Skuro. She's been doing that.
She did it a while back, but she's kind of returned.
Speaker 6: To it.
Speaker 2: Because of all the whole Ice situation in Minneapolis and
so all the proceeds go to immigrant rights organizations here locally.
I contributed a piece about So she asked me to
contribute a piece about like your favorite movie going experience
in Minnesota and so I just whipped up something. I
was like, oh wait, this isn't exactly my favorite, but
it was a fun story about going to see Event
Horizon with my dad when I was ten years old.
Speaker 5: Oh so, oh wait, Gentry, I just did the math
on how old you are?
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I was like, this is gonna help me,
isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, not to bring things down. How are
things in Minneapolis in.
Speaker 2: That regard right now?
Speaker 5: Because I feel like we're not getting the full picture
because there's all sorts of other shit going so much
shit going on everywhere else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they have dialed it back, but they're
still around.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, these masked thugs are still running around, but they've
kind of changed their tactics a bit. They're trying to
like be a little bit more clandestine about it. They're
like posing as you know, ladies with their car broken
down so that they can saw that bullshit. Yeah you
saw that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, stuff like definitely being punished for being a good person. Yeah, terrible, absolutely,
absolutely trocious. Well that's very similar honestly to the idf
using sounds of crying babies. So there were people out
so they can shoot them. Yeah, it's it's all connected people.
You know, we don't get political on this podcast that frequently,
but yeah, it's all connected. We have a lot of
people above us that want us dead. So thank God
for us expectation, right, guys.
Speaker 6: Right, right, And you know what is amazing, Gods, God,
blesser ruffies.
Speaker 5: We can let that some frustration with these films, right.
Speaker 2: And what is amazing is that there are still rep
theaters like willing to program some of this stuff, like
the Beacon Theater in Seattle, Washington, which is gonna be
screening the movie we're about to talk about, Satan and
High Heels on Friday, February twenty seventh, and Jane Garrett, archivist, librarian,
author of A Bizarre Life, a biography of John Willie,
She's gonna be introing that. So that's amazing. If you
can get out to that, you should definitely check it out.
I think this movie looked great on a big screen, absolutely,
and it's part of the it's part of the sex fest,
which is funny because this movie is not super I mean,
it's pretty chaste when you get down to it, but
well ver very much.
Speaker 5: So yes, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think maybe that's
why we Maybe that's why Alex, when we were doing
the Q and All, we kind of forgot about that
in terms of film noir because we were also the
thinking of sexy movies that are noir, and this film
isn't sexy. It's just basically a noir with some like
naughtiness there along the edges of the frame if you
really look. Yes, and there's the queer themes, which is yeah,
that's kind of what probably would have gotten the film
in trouble. There's there, it's not vividly explained.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it, yeah, yeah, yeah, But Jane, I'm
sure she'll talk about you know, she's written a book
on John Willie and there is a John Willie connection
to this film, so yeah, I'm sure she'll be talking
about that in depth. Well, we'll talk about it a
little bit as well. So let's get right into it here.
Where do we want to start with Satan and High Heels. Well,
they'll start with the home video release history. That's a
good place to start, Casey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's just one of the first sexy shockers, which
is the Frank Kennon Laughter Banner, where it was a
film that was kind of like or horror adjacent or
like thrilling with.
Speaker 2: Some sexy stuff.
Speaker 5: So you know it was number Yeah, I don't know, Yeah,
I mean essentially, essentially there was enough naughtiness or adults
only content that they couldn't have put it in like
Johnny Legend's Untamed video. There's untamed video is where you
would have like exploitations movies like girl on a Chain
gang and and they actually they had that Runaway Girl
with Lily Saint Cyr, which is a little sexier that
that probably should have been another category. But this is
kind of a sexy soccer. I think Satan probably is
another reason why.
Speaker 2: They had it in there.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, they just wanted to make sure that it was,
you know, put in the best category to get some
eyes on it.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 2: And then the image DVD was what was it paired with?
It was with the Wild.
Speaker 5: It was on its own, and then Wild with the
Naked was like a bonus feature, your favorite thing.
Speaker 2: The bonus feature came out the same year and the same.
Speaker 5: Is so crazy to think that on the East Coast
we get some flex stating at high heels, then in
Texas we get totally insane shit like The Wild in
the naked, very very different mindsets. In nineteen sixty two Sexploitation, the.
Speaker 6: Same thing with the Confessions of a Psycho cat relays.
Hot Blooded Woman is on that one. Yes, same year
from what the shit? What? Yes?
Speaker 5: Right, well, actually not technically same year, but yeah, I
think the original was sixty five and then the rest
was sixty eight. Maybe I don't remember, so sixty four maybe, yeah, maybe,
but so different. Yeah, it's just and that's and that's
kind of funny. It's like I always like the bonus fees.
Just we're like, well, this is tangentially related, but so different.
Speaker 2: I do enjoy that. So there's a new restoration of
this by a certain somebody. So the future you have here,
the future looks bleak for a reissue, that's true.
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry, I yeah, Well, honestly, the fact that it's
showing at Sexfest is at least promising because that means
that it's going to be back in the conversation. You
can potentially book it for other rep screening so that
it can have more eyes on it. I think that's promising.
I think in terms of home video though, there's just
so many bridges that have been burned.
Speaker 6: I don't know who would, which sucks because we'll get
into this, but there's things we would love to see
related to this film. Why doesn't that would only see
the land on home video?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah's correct. How does this person start their own
home video label? They don't know what they're doing. They
put piss people off.
Speaker 6: That was the I'll just say that was the original
intent way back when. Yeah, I'm just going to say that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just got distracted or walls what they haven't
made a film in years.
Speaker 6: No, they got excited about this, then they immediately got
excited about something else, like they always do.
Speaker 5: Right. It was like it was, yes, a dangly keychain
of sex whitation and then up something else and then
leaving everyone else left behind picking up the pieces, but
with no actual power or money to do anything with
those pieces.
Speaker 2: Yeah not great? Yeah great. So that's if you'll listen.
Speaker 5: To our disconnected show, you'll you'll know who we're talking.
Go back and listen to that.
Speaker 6: You know you know what, folks, thank YouTube again. Go
on to YouTube. Type in Satan High Heels twenty seventeen restoration.
It's right there, Yeah, he is right there.
Speaker 2: Once again, you saving the day and it's not Ai upscaled.
Speaker 6: No, no, no, this is from the negative. Yes, this
is a beautiful restoration from the NAG.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the DVD already looked great, so it's it
could only be more stunning. I think the DVD is
a little darker, and then yeah, you just brighten it up.
Speaker 2: With the with the restoration, for sure. Leonard Bertman, let's
talk about let's this is alex Is this is Alex's
zone here. I mean, so this is a name that
I'm trying to remember. Is his name in the credits?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 2: As producer, Yes, so he is producer. He had a lot,
Oh we'll get into it, but he had quite a
bit to do with getting this picture made, even if
it didn't fully fit his vision. Is that an accurate way.
Speaker 6: To Yeah, this was pretty much Leonard's baby, which I'll
get into it. But also because his baby, I'm shocked
it is as tame as it is. Because Leonard Bertman
is best known for being none of the first pioneers,
but also like a pioneer in what would become our
now contemporary fetish culture, which I am now about to
get into with this wonderful long history about him. But
he did a lot of stuff, folks. He did a
lot of stuff, so gay right into it. Leonard Bertman
was born August twenty in Columbus, Nebraska. Right off the bat,
his father already was a newspaper owner and editor. But
he did not go He did not follow father suit.
He went into electronics. His number one job tell that
most that has been found mostly is radio engineer. Most
interesting thing about him is that he was part of
one group of researcher staff who worked on the atom bomb.
He was in a what was it development of telemetering devices,
And then other papers like would take in and be
like he was so cleared he was a scientist. No
he was not, he was He was not a scientist
at all.
Speaker 2: He's just working on a tiny piece of this gigantic project.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, exactly. He's one team it admits many. But
that started to go south when first he was charged
with theft and embezzlement of government property in nineteen forty
four while working as a civilian radio technician at a
military base. Two years later, he was arrested again for
failing to report for military induction as local board aka
draft evasion. But I forget why, but because he was
working on other things at the time, he kind of
had some good reason for not reporting. The US declined
to prosecute. But the final and worst one was an
arrest in nineteen forty nine for transporting stolen property, and
while he was under investigation for that, he was found
to have also been passing bad checks under an alias,
So he spent a year in federal prison for that.
So now you know he's completely unemployable in that profession.
I do not know when he no, it says sorry.
He then actually switched courses and became a girly photographer
in New York City starting around in nineteen fifty one,
and right off the bat began to freelance for some
notable people, most Irving Claw in particular, and a publisher
named Robert Harrison who was behind a lot of the
early fifties little cheesecake magazines like Beauty Parade, Wink Flirt,
those really innocent ones. And he and he even got
to photograph Betty Page as well quite a few times.
Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, let me ask you this, Alex, So, this
is a guy I just got out of prison and
he's working with Irving Claw, Like, do you think Irving
Claw knew his background at all, because I feel like
Irving Claude would have been trying to keep his own
nose clean. And he's associated with this.
Speaker 6: Well, he was also in prison for something so different.
This wasn't like any obscenity or or something like that,
like like this was military related stolen property. Yeah, I
guess uh for the most part.
Speaker 5: So I think people in that industry, if they were
I feel like it's some of these, some of these,
this industry was kind of a place where people on
the outskirts of society could feel a little bit of safety.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 5: I don't think he's I don't think anybody's judging anybody
for their previous criminal record unless it's like murder or
rape or something about children. Yeah, something like this, like whatever.
Speaker 6: Yeah, good, all good. Yeah, but his life becomes but
his life becomes very interesting while living in New York City.
And I'm so it's so sad that he twist of fate.
He was a workaholic. He died as work desk in
eighty nine. It's so ghastly that he did die because
we have no idea what kind of a person he
was outside of his work and things like that. We
can only infer based on some of the people he
began to socialize at this time, one of them being
John Willie who who published the groundbreaking fetish publication Bizarre,
beginning in nineteen forty five and was also behind almost
all the illustrations in that and Bizarre was very groundbreaking.
That was a yeah, that was the first type of
fetish culture type publication back in those days. Bizarre was
synonymous with the word fetish, and that was very groundbreaking.
It wasn't just like for pourin interest. It had all
sorts of fascinating articles on like why people are into
certain things and stuff and such like that. Tashin put
out a really great three volume collection back in the nineties.
You could still find is a really fascinating publication to read.
So yeah, that is his John Willy affiliation. And then
also besides John Willy, he was also pals with a
man named Charles Gayete. Charles Gayette started was a costumer
for burlesque and strippers and also designed a lot of
more leathery fetish oriented things. He also did mail order
for these types of outfits. So he was the pioneer
in in like what contemporary fetish outfit like designs and
things that we see today. Charles Gayet pioneered that stuff
based on in the US, like this was fascism was
kind of more of a thing in France before this time,
but not really in America yet. These people kind of
really brought this idea into America. And then around this
time the third man was also going to be very
important to him. Is his is what became his longtime
business partner, who was himself an exper lesque club owner
and smut peddler named Benedict Himmel. So in nineteen eighty four,
he and Benedict nineteen eighty four, wow, okay, fifty four,
he and Himmel began stor a publishing company called Burmel,
and their first magazine was really mostly inspired by Bizarre
and Charles Guyet's work, and also this UK publication at
the time called Fads and Fancies that was also a
kind of bizarre public They started they Digest meg Exotica,
which then became Exotique, which, yeah, it was pretty much
Bizarre with some slightly kinkier illustrations. I'm trying to remember.
Gen I think Gene Bilberw did a lot of illustrations
for this one, and this was the beginning of their affiliation.
Speaker 2: Is it a mix of illustrations and.
Speaker 7: Photographs, illustrations all illustrations, illustrations and a lot of text
there was also Chashon also did a great three volume
collection of this one too, so you can also get
this one which then changed to Exatique and yeah, I
had artwork from notable fetish illustrators like Jean Bill Brew
and then at this time he was also publishing illustrated
fetish fiction booklets with which were like, you know, sixteen
to like thirty six, little stories of like oh you
crossed me, I need to tie you up and beat
you and that's like just that's all it is, with
like yeah, one page attacks and a page and an
illustration to go with it, which was illustrated by both
Bill Brew and also other.
Speaker 6: Notable illustrator Eric Stanton as well. Unfortunately, though, Burmel folded
by nineteen fifty nine because of increased legal harassment, culminating
in Bertman and Himmel being found guilty of possession of
obscene booklets with intent to sell because I mean, these
booklets could not go past like the three point thing,
like they only pander to people's parading interests, Like, there
was absolutely no bones about it. So also, these things
were so expensive back in the day. I think at
least like two bucks or something like that. These were
so pricey to get your hands on. So also they
are incredibly rare, so good luck, good luck finding any
of them. Some people have put up old scans and
things like that, but yeah, very hard to find. So, yeah,
the conviction was overturned. But that folded. But they weren't
going to stop there. Nineteen sixty they began with Selby
Associates and they did continue with their fetish digesized publications.
Also Gain two. There's this awful thing that they did
where they would put out these little booklets. They would
have a fantastic illustration by Eric Stanton or Bill brew
and then all inside it was photographs, no artwork, just photographs.
But at this point they decided to go a bit
bigger than just these little digest publications. They expanded into
more mainstream, full sized girly slicks, which were getting very
popular by that time. But you know, them being them,
they kind of leaned into the closest things they could
to fetishism. At this time, there were cheese himegazcenes that
focus on nude women in high heels or in pantyhose
and things like that, but still very innocent. So they
started to get into those, but their publications just always
had a bit of a kinkier bent compared to those
other ones, like the photos are a little bit shadier looking.
A lot of the women will be in more elaborate
pieces like like knee high leather boots, you know, fishnets,
stuff and such, And they would also have articles about
like what's the interest in heels, what's the interest in this?
In this? And that? So some of their ones like
here's one leg show dedicated to lovely legs. They also
had high heels which is another big one. This is
a little cash and one but stocking parade, which was
mostly just recycled photos. And they also have some like
fetish fiction that was also illustrated by Standing or Bill Brew,
humorous soul stories about like someone who is, I don't know,
obsessed with stockings or obsessed with heels and things like that.
Speaker 2: Is there ever in these at this point, is there
ever photographs with like a man even like a man's
hand in it? Is that like off limits?
Speaker 6: Know what there is, And what I was about to
get into is that Bertman also started to tap into
and highlight cross dressing and transsexualism as well. He had
publications such as Female Mimics that highlighted professional cross dressers.
I don't have the issue of high heels, but there
was an issue of high Heels about like why men
cross dress as well and stuff like that. I think
he was one of the first to start doing that
as well. Well wow, yeah, uh huh. So that's that's
what makes me wish we knew more about Bertman, because
he really seems to be in like you really wouldn't
probably put out a magazine like Female Mimics unless you
were somewhat into and or passionate about it. And then
also he also had like another magazine all about strippers
Love Strippers as well too, and yeah, and this was
when they were really at their their height. Yeah, nineteen
sixty two was like their best year. And also what's
expectation people will love about them is that oftentimes in
these magazines stay photographed. So many of our favorite gals
in these megs, who were some of them? GV Darlene right, Well, actually, no,
I have Mary O'Hara as Mary O'Hara I have, I
have the Bennett Twins. Don's actually looking great.
Speaker 2: Someone photographed her.
Speaker 6: Well there's Mary Harrah. Oh yeah, yeah, great Mary.
Speaker 5: I wish she did more.
Speaker 6: That's fantastic, right, they did gg Darlene. Interestingly enough, GG
Darlene's name in the spread that I found is either
leonor Ryan or leonor Ryan Hart is how she's credited,
interestingly enough. And then and then who else? Oh yeah,
Jackie Richards I've seen as well, rich Buda Erickson and
Linda Boyce later on, really they kept.
Speaker 5: Going into like the late sixties.
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, Bertman continued in various capacities all the way
into the eighties were his absolute hey day. But later on,
when he started to make less money stuff, he had
to team up with Ruben Sturman, who really, oh god, yeah,
that was not a great time because he was really
restricted and gat into like hardcore pornography and yeah yeah yeah.
So unfortunately that's also where I think a lot of
this artwork has disappeared to wherever Leonard Bergman's stuff ended up. Yeah, yeah,
so so as as much as yeah, so, as long
as his career was after the sixties, it just wasn't
as pleasant. He wasn't making a lot of money. He
kept on trying to keep in line with what he
was doing and put out so many one shot magazines
that just went nowhere by the age who was very
notorious for taking magazines that didn't sell, putting new covers
on them, and just trying to shove them out back
to try and make more money. Yeah. And and I
think that's fascinating about him is that he shot a
lot of photos of a lot of these photos in
his own apartment. I put in the show notes his
his the bar at the end of his living room
is one of the most notorious features that you'll see
if you see that bar, yeah, which I think I
have like one of Jackie rich winds in front of
isn't Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm like, wait a minute, I look at
that picture.
Speaker 5: I'm like, wait, I just saw that.
Speaker 6: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: That's so great. I see.
Speaker 5: This is when I love, like, like when I watched
the movies with Doris apartments, I'm like, God, the style
and the decor, and now this guy obviously had a
great apartment loves showing it off.
Speaker 8: Uh huh.
Speaker 6: And interestingly enough, I think he might have been behind
the publishing company BB Sales Co. Which published the Olympic
Photo Readers, which was mostly exploitation novel illustrated sexploitation novelizations.
But there's a handful of illustrate books that they put
out which are not from sexploitation films, and having seen
some of the photos in some of them, there's quite
a few picks of letter Burtman's apartment in them. And
also all the Almoso saw the advertisements in Bertman's magazines
were for other in house publications. It's very fascinating. Even
in these more straight ones. He was also like advertising
the fact that he was pointing out things like female mimics.
So if you're in the closet you got one of these.
They really opened up a whole new world to you.
But they have ads for ABB sales as well. However,
they're selling photographs, in this case burlesque stars. However, I
have not in all the other men's magazines, I have
not found any ads for BB sales anywhere else. And
like I said, most of Bertman's ads were for other
in house things. That's what makes me think he might
have been behind He was likely behind BB sales Co.
And also that would have been an early Stirman affiliation
because those were distributed by Ruben's brother, Joe Sturman, right, yes, yeah,
right before he sold off everything to Ruben. Uh right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Joe was behind Yeah, it wasn't Ruben who was behind
all those crazy paperbacks like Satan Press and stuff like that. That
was actually Jay Sermon, right exactly.
Speaker 5: I forget, I forget of the Sermon brothers. I know
everything about Ruben, but I forget that was part of
that NIX for Joe.
Speaker 6: Joe hated being in it. He couldn't wait to take
over his father's led foundry. He hated the industry, he
hated the fact that his family was being harassed all
this stuff. So the second he could take over his
father's business, he sold everything to Ruben and wiped his
hands of it in the late sixties early seventies. I
want to say I also wanted. I also have to
say that almost all this information I got I could
not have gotten without the work and research of Richard
perez Sev, who pretty much has been working tirelessly to
preserve not only this man's history, but also artists like
Eric Stanton Geane Bill Brew. He just put a book
by John Willie. All of his stuff is absolutely fantastic.
You should go support him. Check out his site fetistory
dot com. A lot of this came from an article
that he published in by n w R, probably one
of the best articles on there, which is called let
me just quickly get the name because it is an
incredible read, Bizarre Life Leonard Berkman, the reinvention of sexploitation magazines. Yeah,
almost all this information I summarize comes from him, So
credit to Richard. Please go support him. He's doing fantastic
work and also stuff publishing all of his stuff. I
don't know how he does it. He's doing incredible stuff.
Speaker 2: He's a big Jackie Richards fan as well.
Speaker 5: Did he just do the new the Jackie Richards book
that came out, Yeah, uh huh ah.
Speaker 2: Which I still need to order, but I think it's
supposed to be yeah, multiple volumes, I think yes.
Speaker 6: And he has been occasionally also reprinting some of these
illustrated fiction stories by Eric Stanton as well too, So
you don't have to shell out like three hundred dollars
for one of these booklets.
Speaker 2: They're affordable fifteen dollars you can get.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's Richard and his little biography is like like
on Jean Bill Brew and Eric Stanton, they are so
them are just beautiful illustrations.
Speaker 2: We should have him on, honestly.
Speaker 6: Lorgeous illustrations. We have to have him on. Yeah, we
have also and then.
Speaker 5: I forgot to mention we should also have Jane on honestly,
like yeah, I mean, yes, they're obviously tied into sex
whitation very vividly in both Yeah, in both cases.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely. However, we have no idea why because once again, Lenny,
you had to die. But in nineteen sixty he pursued
the idea of making a feature film, which.
Speaker 2: So he's at his height. This is like when he's
at his cheek, right, so he probably had like money,
He's just like, okay, let's like, let's let's do something,
let's invest.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he started to get interested, well, he started to
just get interested in the idea of becoming a producer.
I'm trailing a hell a little bit, but he Yeah,
he started to set himself up as a producer. He
seemed to have aspirations of getting farther into into that,
starting with Satan in High Heels. Now, a lot around
this film is unknown right off the bat, the person
who created the story was not Leonard Berkman. Interestingly enough,
I would have expected Lenny to have been all around
like we have to have this, we have to have that,
all these different f's into and things like that. But no.
The story came from a pulp fiction writer named Harold
Bonnett who wrote for the pulp magazines in the nineteen thirties.
Hated doing it, apparently he just did it for the money,
very negative memories about doing this stuff, and then afterwards
did a few odd writing jobs, of which was writing
some stories for a friend of his. And he did
do an interview where he talks about Satan in High Heels,
So I'm just going to read that out from his
own words. In the sixties, a publisher friend of mine
asked me to do several paperbacks for him, which I
did using a pseudonym. Eventually, he and some partners got
ambitious and decided to produce a movie. I have no
idea who this friend.
Speaker 2: Is, folks.
Speaker 6: He told me he liked my action stories and asked
if I could would do would like to do an
original story for them? A slam Bank cops and robberts
thing to be shot in the streets of New York.
I said, okay. I wrote the story, which was called
Satan High Heels, delivered it, got paid. He liked the story.
Everyone was happy. After the movie was well long toward
being completed, I happened to be in New York and
I dropped around to see how things were coming. I
picked up a copy of the shooting script and glanced
at it a closer look. My god, I exclaimed. What happened.
The producer shrugged his shoulders. We decided that maybe this
wasn't the best time for another chase type film. Art
stuff is coming in a few nude scenes, that sort
of thing, which true. I looked at the script again.
These characters they don't even seem to be the ones
I wrote about. They're not. We did keep your title, though.
Other than that, the script writer just sort of winned
it as he went along. Most people don't really understand
art movies anyway. Don't put my name on it, I
told him too late. Even the record album of the
music from the show has a jacket printed with your
story as the author of the original story.
Speaker 5: So the man Jahn T.
Speaker 6: Chapman, who's credited as a screenplay is obviously the one
who change it into what it became. Strangely enough, however,
Bonnett would go on to pen the novelization for the
film as Noel Candler. Probably again, I am a question,
that's the thing. That's the thing.
Speaker 5: And they didn't print the jacket of the album before
the movie was finished.
Speaker 2: That's nonsense.
Speaker 5: It's a low bunch of movie and not buying it,
not buying a gea so exactly.
Speaker 6: And also, I don't think his great grandson, who's still around,
thinks that he was just writing little stories for this guy.
I don't think he's writing actual paperbacks because no one,
no one, no one hires a person to write paperbacks
and doesn't do anything with them. I can't find any
of these supposed paperbacks. That makes absolutely no sense. He
probably just was writing stories or treatments or something for
those guys. The one good thing is that his son,
Walter Bonnet, who was pursuing acting at the time, he
managed to get him in as the pianist George. Only
good really good thing about this.
Speaker 5: So wait, and that sounds like he was a little
more involved with production than too if he got his
son again.
Speaker 6: Exactly, come on, come on now, Yeah, leonard Is is
in a brief shot in the plane.
Speaker 2: So like, both of these guys are like, they're yeah,
they're both pretty involved in the film, at least they.
Speaker 5: Definitely is. Bonnett, though, is trying to bond a writer
wouldn't be on the set of the movie anyway, but
he's trying to separate himself from this project. I don't
know why.
Speaker 2: Maybe because when he told.
Speaker 5: The story, he was after the movie's reputation was in
the gutter. So he's just like, eh, you know, I
think it'd been a bigger hit and better loved. I
think he probably would have put it on his resume.
Speaker 1: You know what I need is some fresh air and
a man. Larry isn't a man, then I'll make him one.
Speaker 6: Now Again, there's so much that I don't know. I
only have nuggets about this thing, as you guys will see.
Speaker 5: But let's actually sorry, before you get into intrader I
just remember Benedette Himmel is credited on this movie as well,
so he even brought in his publishing his other long
time publisher partner into it.
Speaker 6: In some way, he can produce me right, Yes, I forgot.
Speaker 5: That's interesting.
Speaker 6: I forgot.
Speaker 5: So it really is the work of like these these
publishing moguls.
Speaker 6: Yes, and also because their magazines began to tease the
film before it came out as well, too, very smart, okay,
like like it like the first issue of High Heels
had a special on like saying in High Heels though
under a working title Parent of Evil. Oddly enough, I'll
get into that.
Speaker 5: It's weird because yeah, we'll talk about the later movie.
Speaker 6: Very very odd. But yeah, we should get into Gerald
in Trader, which there is not a lot known about him.
Like I told you, guys, I'm I'm shocked I found
with the little nuggets of family information that I did.
So guys, all we've got is he was born in
September twenty four, nineteen twenty in Vienna, Austria. His full name,
and if you guys know one of his pseudonyms, you
should perk up at this. His full name was Gerald
Easydore Israel Nemiah intrudeor his family being his mother, father,
and sister were residing in Vienna when Hitler took over.
It is unknown, however, when Gerald himself came to America.
I found one newspaper article in nineteen forty one stating
that he was already living in New York because the
article was about this giant Hellish boat that was bringing
over tons of refugees, and his family was on that boat.
He was waiting for his family to arrive. Is unknown
how he got in the film industry, but he became
most notorious in the mid to late fifties. Oh, I
believe god a Striper Rama. His first real directing credit
starts with the wonderful little burlesque film Striper Rama, which
is a very random thing. I get the feeling he
was a director for hire.
Speaker 5: His credit is like I think his credit as art
director or stage director on there. So I wonder if
it was with burlesque theaters in New York. Maybe, I
don't know, like like Lillian Hunt sort of. Oh, it's
not really a film director either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: That's kind of the thing because there is no official
history or any clear connections to be made. It's like
all we can do is kind of guess.
Speaker 2: In some of these places. There's also that misconnection to
Irving Claw again with Yes Rama.
Speaker 6: So right, that's true. So yeah, fifty three, he started
with Strip Rama and then Not in New York in
nineteen fifty nine. But besides this film, what he's most
notorious four was being one of the go to men
too shoot nude scenes to spice up foreign films. From
what I've gathered based on his affiliation, even though of
course I don't have any definite proof on like which
ones he worked on things like that, he definitely seemed
to have been William Michigan's go to guy for a
bunch of his stuff, such as Oh God, the Skin Game,
which had Audrey Campbell in it, One hundred Dollars a Night,
which had Sharon Kent Maybe Amorous Sex, which has a
very hard to recognize g G dar Lean with jet
black hair. Yeah, it took me a second watch to
realize it was based on her face and I just
know her breasts. I hate it sounds so weird.
Speaker 5: Listen, listen, very very very recognizable in this genre. Well,
like I yeah, there was another movie we're doing a
commentary for I took notes on. I was like, oh, right,
that is that actress because even though her face is shown,
I know that I know that chest anywhere. Yeah, it's
it's a mark of affection. It's not a mark of perversion.
It's a mark of like, Oh I love that I
know that beautiful body anywhere.
Speaker 6: It's kind of like when when I was watching that
film that campus put out which was spiced up called
The Unsatisfied, I could tell June Roberts was there based
on the back of her head and just her legs alone.
Oh yeah, like those are dunes legs, those are her abortions.
Speaker 5: Those are her gams. Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 6: I was like, that's absolutely Juny. The only ones we
really we absolutely know that he doctored up are Heat
the Curious Doctor hump. He then did those color inserts
for Tuck Me in, another fantastic film that more people
should see, Yes, and in the horror sector, adding more
gore and stuff to Night of the Bloody Apes as well.
Speaker 2: Alex who did the inserts for the extra ones for
Seeds your idea because that was insert's boy, Linda boy. Yeah,
that was a Michigan to wasn't it.
Speaker 5: It was like the usual Suspects.
Speaker 9: No, that was, yeah, there was because I wanted to
shot that for all I know, they had some money
and Andy had somebody to do that quick.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Those are very lazy. Intro Doors was the classic style.
Uh yeah, Intro doors was a classic style of if
if if if the original film has a has sequences
at nightclub, there will be a backstage scene of a
bunch of dancers chatting and changing their clothes, and then
during the bathing scene, you know, like the woman will
start to get up, and then there'll be a close
up of just someone's chest rising out of the water.
That was pretty seamless from what I've seen, and like
heat and stuff like that. He did good inserts, so
I do so seeds could not have been him. He
was way better at this at whoever was doing whoever
was doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the insert of June Roberts in or the Pink
Pussy where Sinton lives. Yeah, she's like backstage. Yeah classic.
Speaker 5: Well that's Jack, that is Jack Curtis, And that's another
good film doctor because that was Lee Hessel had an
in house guy at campus and that was Jack Curtis,
who directed Flushooters. But yeah, like it's very interesting that
you had these guys who were regularly doing this in
New York and they could do it well, so that's
why they kept getting work done. It's also interesting that
you have these distributors that actually kind of give a
shit about this, because there were there considering the misign
typically did not give a shit about a lot of stuff.
It's very surprising that he would go to somebody that
he knew could do the job well well also, otherwise
I thought he wouldn't care Well at this.
Speaker 6: Point, you also just absolutely had to By this point
mission was still held out if he could have, if
he could have, but bye, sure yeah, yeah, but by
around nineteen sixty two, nineteen sixty three, you had to
start adding nudity. You just had to.
Speaker 5: What was that ad that we found There was some
movie that was a French import that was from like
nineteen fifty one in nineteen six and it was released
here in like nineteen sixty six. Is the double feature
with I think Hot Nuts on the Pisis and it's
just like you, Yeah, there had to have been inserts
because that's a fifteen year old movie from post war France.
Speaker 2: The doesn't no way.
Speaker 6: There was editing one hundred dollars a Night, which came
out around nineteen sixty seven. In this version was Oh
My God, which has has Sharon Kent there.
Speaker 2: She is right there oh my icon.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, because this film, the original film has
to do with prostitution, so of course there's an exemplary
scene of a prostitute at work with two John's, which
is Sharon Kent. This was from like the mid fifties.
I want to say, Oh, I think it was Love Now,
Pay Later, which was fifty three, and then it came
out like fifty five sixty five.
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, yeah, you know what.
Speaker 5: I kind of want a I would love a compilation
of just insert for American like like, for example that one,
for example one hundred dollars a night.
Speaker 2: I only need to see the Sharon Kent stuff.
Speaker 6: Like, I don't care.
Speaker 5: I don't give a shit about the rest of the
other stuff, Like I just want to see the inserts.
I feel like there could be a very interesting faue.
I don't know, they could. You could, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I feel like that would be great. You guys could
do that. Yeah, they're good.
Speaker 5: Do a mixtape, do the insert mixtape, skin game, skin game.
Speaker 6: I need Audrey Campbell as well and stuff.
Speaker 5: I don't need to see the rest of it. Just
give me the inserts.
Speaker 6: I've only watched films like the Unsatisfied for the inserts
like in the Unsatisfied Sheila Britt backstage like like attack
someone else with a pair of scissors, and there's like,
oh my god, I heard Audrey Campbell. Yeah. Yeah. The
only good part about the amorous, sex, awful British singing
drama lean just that's the only good part about that one.
Speaker 2: Is she talking in that? Does she have like speaking lines?
Speaker 6: No, she doesn't. The man she's with is over dubbed,
like you want to get into the business, honey, this
is how we do it. And he strips off her
blouse so.
Speaker 5: They're really trying to make it look like it's like it's.
Speaker 2: An import for sure. Yeah that's interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh god, yeah yeah makes a smart smart director
would have had her just speak in German and then
made it look like it was shot in Germany. That
would have been great.
Speaker 6: But well, this was a British film. This was a
British film, This was this was a British This one
was British.
Speaker 5: Now imagine Jesuid Darlene with her German action trying to
do a British accent that insert.
Speaker 6: I god, that would have been great.
Speaker 2: The things that we wish had happened.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, like I said, Hessel,
Hessel was pretty like his pickups were pretty okay, there's
something you can find something to enjoy in them.
Speaker 2: Ones are not bad is pretty great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're not bad. The Michigan's I not to bother
that they have not surfaced, because those are films that
are over ten years old, and even just look at
the trailers that he did, you can just tell there's
not much there. There is not much there in those things.
Amra Sex is torture. Torture one of those films where
I'm like, really we had to get Amra sex and
not Cottonac naked? Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 6: Ugh, okay, yeah that's for Peppy Cinderella.
Speaker 1: Mind your own business.
Speaker 6: How did you live to your present day?
Speaker 1: I'll go soak your ahead, Paul Nett put that down, Spacey.
Speaker 6: Let's get into because Bernard Hershison, the director of photography
for this fantastic, for this beautiful film. Not to mention
the orgy at lit. Yeah, Bertie's fantastic. He has a
very interesting background. He began working in film at early age.
He didn't say where, but he just said, Addie studio
as a go, trying out anything he could at any position.
He did about everything he had set design, he did sound, this,
and that. He became the most interesting in photography. However,
after being an assistant cameraman a couple times, then the
Korean War came and he was drafted in in nineteen
fifty one, and they asked what do you do, And
he hadn't taken the official position yet, but he has
told them I'm a cameraman. So they made him a
cameraman and instead take him to Korea. He was shipped
off to Europe and he filmed some very interesting things
like Eisenhower becoming a five star general at NATO. There's
a photo of him at NATO headquarters apparently filming that.
And then after the war he came back to New
York and started taking any camera man position he could,
tons of documentaries, lots of commercial work. He was cameraman
for that little art film Day and Lisa, which he
was a big help in that because the director was
not too good at like figuring out how to like
block scenes and stuff like every night he would sit
with him and figure out what they were going to
do the next day.
Speaker 5: Well, just like, wait, wasn't that Frank Perry, David Lisa?
Was that Frank Perry? I don't remember now. Well, I
think most people now agree that the secret to his
success with his wife Eleanor, that might have been pre Eleanor.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well maybe the secret to this one was was Bernie.
Speaker 5: Bernie, right, it was Frank Perry. Yeah, and Eleanor. Eleanor
wrote the movie. I don't think she was involved though, Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think we have Bernie to thank for that,
looking as yeah, being with it looks really good. And
sometime again he didn't give a bunch of love of
information about him specifically, but in the mid fifties, through
an editor friend, he met Jerry Intradoor and started to
shoot insert sequences for him, which was how yeah, which
was how they got together, and how he ended up
shooting saying high heel and orgit Lill's Place. Unfortunately he
shoots experts. I wish I could have asked him this
before he passed. I do not know if he filmed
Caught in the Act naked or not, because the press
book has minimal credits for that one. Quickly afterwards, he
did a lot more commercials and documentaries, so he may
not have always been shooting stuff for Intro Door because
he was so insanely busy, and also he began he
also was a go to cameraman to film quite a
few presidents. He was one of the go tos for
John Kennedy. He saw him the day before he died.
I believe Eisenhower.
Speaker 2: Definitely Richard Nixon he talks about in that commentary track.
Speaker 6: Yes, and definitely Richard Nixon, and he says some things
about Nixon being really creepy. He eventually stopped filming for Nixon.
There's yeah, there's there's some bizarre there are some bizarre
stuff there and most and then he directed the fantastic
Little Crown pickup called The Pickup. Well originally Pazuzu.
Speaker 5: Are there two versions on that blu ray, it's just
the one it is and then there's an extra of
the pick Up credits because the credits is the only
difference between Pazuzu and the pick Up version. Okay, that
is such a special movie and that was like such
a passion present room. He did so much stuff on
that movie. It's it's it's like a one man show almost. Yeah,
it's such a it's such a great little movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you get a chance to watch that, I
definitely give give the commentary a track a listen, because yeah,
Bernie's on that with Joe Rubin and they go into
the whole production and yeah, Bernie was I don't know
the whole he didn't really go into like how it
came about exactly, but I mean he's basically.
Speaker 5: In the interview. Yeah, he's given the video.
Speaker 2: He was given full freedom over the project. I mean
he got this script from another guy, and he was
originally a poor nod script, he said, and he kind
of turned it into this, in his words, a tone poem,
which is exactly what the fact.
Speaker 5: It's so accurate too. Yeah, that movie, it's kind of
you know, I think we've said Submission is kind of
like an experience. It's not necessarily a narrative film to
go follow from beginning to end. It like washes over
you pick Up is very similar to that. It is
very much a moon piece that you experience, not necessarily
looking for, you know, narrative.
Speaker 2: Points and stuff like that. Yeah, it's it's very I
really love it.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think he just I think the opportunity just must
have landed in his Lap because like you said, he
was busy doing a bunch of commercial work at the
same time as well. And I think he got this.
Speaker 6: Script and the money and that's what he went on
to do afterwards. Like that's just what he did for
the rest of his life. He had a great, long career.
Speaker 5: As his IMDb is so is so incomplete because there's
so much stuff that is not on IMDb or it
wouldn't credit him. It's kind of I think Chuck is
the same way. Actually, see David Smith is similar and
that there's just so much work that will never know
what the full resume because yeah, just not commercial.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's commercial work, that's not ye, nobody's adding that
to IMDb.
Speaker 6: Yeah, somebody one of Crown's best pickups next to like
Best Friends and yeah, Shank Young Women and things and
things like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, I like, no, Police Women is way better.
Speaker 2: That's the leaf that one's amazing.
Speaker 5: Was the Police Women produced by Crown, though no, I
think it was another Leaf Frost pickup.
Speaker 6: Oh beautiful.
Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, I don't think Crown. I could be wrong
with this. I don't think Crown produced that much stuff
in the House at it's mostly pickups.
Speaker 6: It was like even though it was like weird babysitter
and teacher, Oh interesting.
Speaker 5: Yeah, those are even those are pickups yeah, like yeah,
and that's like young Graduates was a pick up. We
need to book on pickups so badly. Well, we need
to find Crown first of all. Yeah, I'm very concerned.
And that's kind of why, like this blue is out
of print. All the Crown stuff is. If it's out
of print, it's not going to come back into print
until we figure out where the hell the owners went
and the elements. So right now it's kind of up
in the air.
Speaker 2: Yea. Yeah, this this out the Blue ray for Pickup
is going for like one hundred dollars.
Speaker 5: Now I'm glad I have mine and also place on it,
which is like if you want to see a shockingly
not bad Michigan this Expectation movie. I quite like it.
That's where you have to get it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, visually, Oh that's just a beautiful film.
Speaker 2: It is. It's really beautiful. I was really shocked, you know,
coming at that, because you know, I've I've heard about
Orgy at Littles Place for years now, but I've never
seen it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so when I watched it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I'm expecting this garbage Michigan movie
that everybody fun of for being all all sizzle, no steak,
and I'm just like, yeah, it is all sizzl no steak.
But it's also just like a really gorgeous film and
with tons of great photography of New York.
Speaker 6: And yeah, and also just and also I will say
fascinating how careful it is. Yeah, in terms of what
it shows, it's very interesting, and like Jerry really knew
what he was doing. And I really feel like also
Michigan was kind of breeding down his neck, being like
you can only do it.
Speaker 2: This way everything, you know. Jimmy McDonald's book, he talks
a lot in his his million book, he talks a
lot about Michigan and how protective he was over Orgy
at Little's Place, especially the title.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was huge. I think that was his biggest
release by by far. Yeah. Yeah, nothing beat Orgy at
Little's Place that did so well.
Speaker 5: Similar to this, and that it is not Yeah, it
is not graphic, and the title implies that it will
be much more titillating than it actually is. And and
also it's kind of like the Seducers. I'm like, Wow,
how exactly erotic is this going to be? You know,
you know, I think it's kind of interesting because people
will talk about porno chic, about like this almost crossing
over from sex films into Hollywood, where it's like this milding,
and I feel like films like this and Orgy Lost
Place are kind of already moving towards that in the
early sixties where there is that crossover potential because you
have real actors, real technicians, real scripts, a really careful
use of sexual elements that aren't too you know, too graphic,
and it's interesting, you know, it's it's interesting just to
note that, like, yeah, and then it all went downhill
and something happened where it all went to It all
went to sleeves. This movid Ley's and the Olga films ruined.
Speaker 2: Like Satan in high heels. If it wasn't for kind
of the nude swimming scene and maybe like that really
hot kiss afterwards, this could be like an r KO
B movie, don't you think.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's something that you would say, like bel Air
production is doing.
Speaker 6: Someone once posed the theory that it might have even
been intended for later TV play because those are very
easy to cut out too. Yeah, like that's you don't
need it, you need it at all.
Speaker 5: No, No, I could see it working on TV, actually,
I really could, because it's like, yeah, I mean even
the even the even the queer characters aren't as so
overtly queer that it's offensive or that like censor boards
would be like, well, this is this Barbara Darktown.
Speaker 2: Is clearly gay.
Speaker 5: The bar the owner was clearly lesbian. Like there, it's
not that obvious.
Speaker 2: I just don't know if they were that forward thinking.
I want, I don't I don't know if they were.
Speaker 6: Well I think they were, because the reviews did really
get into that. We'll get it.
Speaker 5: They did, so they did notice the reviews weren't that stupid.
Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, yeah, they did see into it.
Speaker 2: I mean we were thinking as far as like putting
this on TV in that way. I don't know, but
I don't know anyways.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but let's get into the production. Because yes, in
the early what I started to find in the early
sixties Bertman. I have no idea who his pr man was,
but he was. I hope he got a raise because
he really started putting all these little bits in like
the little gossip columns, what's going on in Broadway, you know,
and things like that. So early sixties you start reading
things like producer Leonard Bertman has bribed Meg Miles with
lead role for his new film, and then Leonard Bertman
courts Sabrina for a role. Most interestingly was a piece
that said Berman intended to fly to Paris to sign
famed female impersonator coach to Nell. Although the art although
the article said, well, that's not going to go over
well because it is unlawful to do that in the
US unless it's Halloween or licensed balls.
Speaker 2: Well, how did they get the female impersonator in uh? Teaserama?
That was like fifty that was early fifty mid.
Speaker 5: I think the laws were different in New York. I
think there was something because there were female impersonators in
nightclubs in New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, definitely was.
Speaker 5: In the forties. I think that might have been it
where it was like, well, because I think that would
have also drawn undo attention onto the film where it's
kind of like, well, what kind of film is going
to have a female impersonator in it? Is it going
to appeal to proring interests? Because that kind of thing
happens not on camera at a nightclub at night where
adults go. So it's you know, well, that's yeah, that's
interesting though that they would even And then also that
reminds me of him doing the Female Mimics magazine where
it's like, oh, he was fully aware of who she was,
he was fully aware of trying trans transvestism and drag
and transperformers find that's so fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I doubt Meg Miles would have signed up for
this film though if there was a scene with a
female personator. Yeah, maybe not.
Speaker 5: I don't Yeah, no, we'll go into what she already
had issues with some press.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she said, yep, uh huh. So according to her,
this was from she was interviewed. And I should point
this out because it was an interesting book in the nineties,
Vava Voom Bombshells, pin Ups, Sexpots and Glamour Girls by
Steve Yees fantastic.
Speaker 2: Are all good?
Speaker 5: Oh I need that book.
Speaker 2: I don't have that one.
Speaker 6: So he did a career spanning interview with her. I
think Lily scenes Sears and that so many people before
they died, sofore they died.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, that okay, uh so, once.
Speaker 6: Again, thank you. This is right. A lot of this
from so.
Speaker 5: His books are great anyway.
Speaker 6: According to her, the working titles was Stacy and then this.
This came out even in the press. For some reason,
later on during production it was changed to Pattern of Evil.
Already when it was already under the tell santan Hi
Heels because articles were like Saint Hi Hell's happening, and
then it goes the towel has been changed the Pattern
of Evil. Then then earlier, right before it's released, sant
Hi Heels is coming out. What they were doing, I
have no idea. And one of and like I said,
one of the teaser megs that they put out the
High Heels issue credits it as Pattern of Evil, shot
in October nineteen sixty. Over the course of Bernie remembers
it being twenty one days. I've also heard twenty seven,
so really long. I mean, you can tell, yeah, you
can tell that they took their time with this one.
Just by all the lights. You can tell Jesus there's
like at least six or seven in the club.
Speaker 2: That makes a.
Speaker 5: Photographer even more like, Yeah, they put they put time
into this. There were so many setups like for every scene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, board, where was the club? Did you mention what
club it was?
Speaker 6: Yes, the club was at La Martinique, which was fifty
seven West fifty seventh Street. It was a basement club.
Speaker 2: That's the street that I work on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, West fifty seventh Street, so it's like near Carnegie Hall.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I didn't think it was still open at
this time. La Martinique was in its heyday back in
like the forties, I want to say, in its original owners,
and then it changed hands later on. But yeah, that's
where they filmed at the and then and then Leonard
Bertman's apartment was used as Arnold's penthouse, hence the bar,
and by this point he has covered it in leather.
He's done some brnoway, which is one of my favorite
parts of looking through the magazines is watching his living
room change in terms of like decore and stuff like
that one newspaper article and also it's mentioning the Orjet
Lills place that I don't know exactly where, but the
stone house they go to was supposedly somewhere in Connecticut,
possibly again someone they knew, because again Jerry went back
and used the house for Orjet Lil's where Leonard lived.
I have no idea. Someone said it might have been
some in place, but that's just a room I've heard.
In terms of production, this wasn't a fun shoot at
least from every Yeah, sorry to burst her bubble, folks,
but yeah, it wasn't a very enjoyable time. According to
make Miles, she thought the original script was a more
I don't know. I don't know what she was thinking,
but according to her, this script was a straightforward drama.
But wait in quotes, but as the film progressed, the
producer switched the emphasis and the marketing to exploit the
sex angle. I mean yeah in the film, not really
in the film. That in the film, but that's the thing,
that's the thing in the campaign. Yes, in the campaign, yes,
which is awful because Meg was trying to I'll go
into her biolayer, but Meg was trying to get away
from her glamour cheesecakes, a type persona that was like
tacked onto her unwittingly. Meg Miles was so over sexualized,
the poor thing. It really affected her career and and
this seemed to be like a good break. She at
this point she had left Hollywood and come to New
York to do more serious acting because horrible stuff had
happened in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: She was born like in the wrong decade. If she
was born like ten fifteen years earlier, she would have
been the biggest noir dame on the screen, like she
if you see her in even like Calypso heat Wave,
which I watched, like it comes through, like she's such
a good she has such a good noir like.
Speaker 5: Or even like twenty years later, like if she she
could have come around and done like seventy stuff, she
could have been someone like fade down Away.
Speaker 6: Yeah, or actually you know, actually I'll get the rundown
nightment right now because we're already talking about her. What
happened was that? Okay? So she got into acting and
singing at a young age. She's originally from She was
originally born Billy Jean Jones, a name she hated, so
she adopted her Megan Miles after her great grandmother Megan Miles.
At a young age, she moved to California and gotten
in to acting and singing. Fascinatingly, she was recognized by
a talent agent at one of her high school productions,
and from that began Gail sorts of small parts. However,
a lot of those roles became apparent were based off
of her looks and her figure, not her talents, and
then she began as a result, she began getting fans
because of her measurements instead of her talents, and then
producers pretty much I put her, producers could see little
beyond her chest, despite how dedicated she was to her craft,
and at this time off it was awful. Gossip columns
and tabloids were over sexualizing the living hell out of her,
plugging all playing, all these different things that she says
weren't true. Like she ran into Jane Mansfield and they
had a like bust off, but Jane backed off because
Meg's proportions were bigger and just absolutely tarnishing her poor reputation.
The only thing that helped her was that throughout this
time she was doing tons of singing nightclubs. She was
traveling all over the US doing that, and that helped
back up the fact that like she, she had talented vocalist,
which got her one or two recordings released under the
Sunset label. And then the singing part in Phoenix City
which really helped That landed her a seven year contract
with Capitol Records. Around this time, unfortunately, clothed cheesecake photos
began making the rounds in men's magazines, once again emphasizing
her proportions. So demands for Meg. Photos of Meg at
this time were huge. Like like I said, no one
saw how gifted she was. Everyone just wanted Meg because
of her figure. And it kept on tarnishing exactly, and
tabloids begin also kept on crane falls claims, and it
came to a really bad head when at this point
she was also rubbin Ellie elbows with Hollywood's elite, and
things took a turn. At a party held at Sammy
Davis's hull, a photo was taken of her and Sammy
Davis sitting on a couch amongst a bunch of other people,
and all sorts of people were there. I know Dreudy
Garland was there. Confidential attained the obtained the photo, cropped
it to make it look like it was just her
and Sammy alone in a room, and published it with
heated innuendos. Oh because the back yes.
Speaker 5: And the crazy thing is they did the exact same
thing to Ava Gardner also with Sammy Davis Junior. His
proximity to white to white women in Hollywood was always
used against those white women, and it's it's sick, it's
disgusting for both, for both Sammy and the women. You know,
it's it's terrible.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so that, I mean, her family even started
to get death death threats. From that, she lost many opportunities,
including her contract by Capitol Records. Unfortunately, yeah, she never
got to release an album through them. So by nineteen
fifty nine, she was fed up with Hollywood and that's
why she moved to New York to pursue serious acting
and Saint Hi Heels was her first film, and again
from the outset, she thought it was going to be
something that that you know, was going to be something
a bit more serious and things like that, which is unfortunately,
she's so good in this. She eats this movie on stick.
Speaker 5: She eats it up and then and yeah, it kind
of related to what Gentry said, like in a better world,
she would have toured with a nightclub act where she
did the female of the species is more deadly than
the male in her leather out of it. She would
have recreated this to uproaris, applause and sold out shows because.
Speaker 6: You imagine that's the world I.
Speaker 2: Want to live in. Yeah, that would have been I
would have died. I feel like this what brings this
movie down from me a bit is that there's not
enough of those nightclub numbers. They should have put a
few more early earlier on in the film, Like we
don't get I think Sabrina's is three fourths of the
way through the film.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have an audition. We have an audition scene,
which I think is good, and that actually her vocals
and that are better than female the species, more deadly
than the male, but different songs, you know.
Speaker 6: And that's what you're saying. What you're saying, I love
the song is so poignant to what the character Felice
is going through in that moment. Yeah, might just cut
to her as she like size, as she's like hearing
the lyrics. Incredible, incredible. I love Falise. All I found.
All I found about Nola Chapman was that she was
doing some off Broadway at the time. That's all I
got it.
Speaker 5: I know I came up empty too. I was like, oh,
another forgotten jem I'm sure she was great and everything
else she did.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, I was wondering who this girl was too.
I mean she's she's like the third build girl in
this right, but she's Yeah, she's really good in this too.
Speaker 1: You'll eat and drink what I tell you to until
you lose five pounds in the places where now list
you listen.
Speaker 6: Oh no, no, little birds in their nests to stop
this instant speaking of Sabrina to make things worse, Leonard,
I'll get to her. I got her too. But Leonard
Berman and Sabrina, according to a little gossip piece I found,
constantly fought during shooting. It said Sabrina and producer Leonard
Bertman kept yelling at each other all through the filming
of Satan High Heels, a low budget job. Sabrina screams
for her own hairdresser, a private limousine, and other small favors,
and Burton screamed low budgets.
Speaker 2: I love the idea of.
Speaker 5: Him just screaming those two words at her. So, Sabrina
is a full glamazon in this movie. So I totally
see that being an accurate thing, not a gossip lot
loss on page six, blind item, I totally believe that happening.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I should. Yeah, let me get into Sabrina's
She has a very interesting. Your career is very interesting.
So she was born as Norma and psychs and she
was actually a junior swimming champion before she was ten.
Like that seemed to me where her life was gonna
go was was yeah, being a swimming champion, and then
she was No. She contracted polio and was in out
hospitals for the next four years. She almost lost both
her legs. Wow. And actually, fun fact, physical therapy is
what helped give her her proportions her legs and yeah
upper half wow. Yes. So and she lived in like
a smaller town, her family ran, her parents ran a
little hotel. She told her parents she was going to
go visit someone and ended up running off to London
at age sixteen, ended up destitute, like taking anything out
of she She she even work trying to sell handmy
jewelry to local stores. One thing she noticed though during
this time, like as a waitress and things like that,
was that her figure made people stop and stare. She
eventually befriended a photographer who launched her mother and career.
Her big break, however, came in nineteen fifty five when
because this photographer handed a producer or arthur or comedian
Arthur asking himself some photos and Sabrina was one of them,
and they picked out Sabrina. She became Arthur Asky's sidekick
to this show that was popular at the time called
Before Your Very Eyes, which she didn't have to do anything.
He just saysthing funny and she just kind of giggle and.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, this is all over in England.
Speaker 6: Yes, this is all over in England. And then this
made her and she had very revealing, tight, low cut outfits,
so she became known as the first woman to show
cleavage on British TV.
Speaker 5: So she was like a predecessor like the Benny Hill
Girls sort of similar. They were there to be like
the beautiful girl with like the goofy.
Speaker 2: Comedian that's interesting, yes okay.
Speaker 6: And so these small television appearances and her proportions got
her started to get her on the front pages of
magazines and newspapers and she is she pretty much started
she became she started to become famous for being famous. Uh,
Like she was fantastic at trying to find any sort
of like publicity photo opportunity, trying to like crash formal
get togethers, all sort of things where she knew photographers
would be. She really exploited her large chest at once point.
At one point for a publicity thing, she had it
insured for one hundred thousand pounds.
Speaker 5: That sounds like Angelique in La actually right, billboards her
something and did nothing Based on her.
Speaker 6: Stunts, she was almost kind of like she was almost
kind of like a British Jane Mansfield a little.
Speaker 5: Bit, yes, but at least Jane Mansfield could act.
Speaker 6: Yes, well unfortunately, yeah, and I mean yeah, so she
was not considered talented, but she was mobbed wherever she went,
like when she was at airport once and was mob
so bad part of the roof collapsed. Yes, yes, there's
this great there's a great piece of probably partially fake
where like a mob attacked on the streets and like
ripped off half her clothes. That got so much publicity.
But she did end up, she did end up taking singing,
dancing and acting lessons. She eventually went on tour with
her own cabaretio and got up some better bit parts
and things. But whether whether or not she got better,
she already had the stain of being this talent talentless bimbo. Unfortunately,
because yeah, because I love her, insane, she has a
great presence, even she's just playing herself. I think she's
just great as as that little character that she just plays.
Speaker 5: She just plays Sabrina or she's basically playing herself, right.
Speaker 2: Don't they even make that comment like, oh, you just
came back from England?
Speaker 6: Oh? Or also where did Kenyon find her? Sabrina found herself?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, that's good, which is very fitting.
Speaker 6: I love that oddly enough. At this point, also, she
was also hanging around Hollywood's elite too. In America, she
was just known as that bust dey British girl. But
she was like hanging out with Elvis Presley and things
like that, which is partially which is probably how she
eventually met the wealthy guynecologist that she married in nineteen
sixty seven, eventually moving into his mansion in California, which
prompted her to just give up show business as quickly
as she started. Sabrina walked away from it all after
tragically after a after she divorced him, she ended up
in a small house in Hollywood where she lived as abercluse.
Especially after she had she always had back problems. I
wonder why she had a really bad botched back problem,
which left her lower half, which left her paralyzed in
her lower.
Speaker 2: Half like a back surgery.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, sorry, Yeah, she had a batched back surgery.
And yeah she died of recluse. That took over a
year for people to realize she'd even passed.
Speaker 5: Wasn't sad because I remember the early days of the internet.
Someone made a Sabrina tribute website.
Speaker 2: I think they.
Speaker 5: Actually interviewed her at her home, like they met her,
and they didn't. She didn't let them take a picture
of her now, but they asked her questions. And that's yeah,
that's sad, very sad because I like her in the
ice house as well.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, watched that. Can I help you? Dot?
Speaker 2: Are you the attendant tenant?
Speaker 6: Serintendent?
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly don't think much of your service.
Speaker 6: Well, you really haven't tried it yet. Now do you
think I could have some change please?
Speaker 2: I'm not satisfied.
Speaker 6: Customer.
Speaker 3: Well, there is one customer who doesn't want her eyes smelted.
Speaker 2: So let's get on with the business.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 6: My favorite, my favorite woman in this is Grayson Hall.
Of course.
Speaker 2: I mean she's not really that old in this, but
she gives off that vibe of like that she somehow
has it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you said that she had a two year old
at home, and I'm like, this woman has yeah, can
give years ago not two years ago?
Speaker 6: Okay, she was incredible. So so she was born September eighteen,
nineteen ninet two, as Shirley Grossman in Philadelphia. Tragically, she
became she became interested in acting, partially to escape her
very painful childhood her parents, I know at one point
they went through a horrific, bitter divorce and things like that.
So fine off, Well, she was still in high school
in Philly. She would come to New York City in
audition for roles. So she was starting out very young,
and she ended up in She had a very active
stage career in off Broadway and off off Broadway, and
was in many influential and avant garde plays, like she
was in the first iteration of Jean Jannet's The Balcony,
which went on for over a year, and also around
this time in early nineteen sixty was in one or
two very little I don't think you could find them
experimental type films as well. She was in the Balcony
while she was doing this. She was so she was
doing that during the evening and then during the day
she was shooting Satan high heels and then yes, she
had a two year old at home at the exact
same time. Thank god she had living help. Yeah she has.
She had some fantastic living help at this time.
Speaker 5: You said she was born in nineteen oh two, twenty
two oh, twenty two. Okay, I was like thirty eight
years old.
Speaker 2: Mother. Okay, wow.
Speaker 6: Interesting, thankfully though apparently one of the main locations was
around the corner from her old apartment. According to she
has a great biography. This is I got this from
her biography. Grayson Hall a hard act to followed by R. J. Jamison.
Speaker 2: I didn't know she wrote a book or there was
a book about her.
Speaker 6: Oh wow, Yeah, there's a really good book about her.
And the author seemingly, I guess interviewed Dell Tenny because
he revealed in this book that she argued with Introdor
and others on the production team. He recalled he recalled
that Intrador was supposedly very inexperienced, which bothered some of
the actors. Which bothered some of the actors. So Grayson
only mentioned it once in nineteen sixty four for something else,
saying Satan taught me the ABC's of what not to
do in movies, and then later on she would publicly
deny that she was in the film.
Speaker 5: Interesting, yes, well yeah, most I think everyone knows her
for Dark Shadows now yeah, yeah, now, I mean there,
it's funny. There are viral video clips that have gone
around of her horrific smokers scream on that show. It's
like it is so grating and horrible, it's very over
the top. So yeah, I mean she was perfect for
a supernatural soap opera.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean just say, like, yeah, she should not
be ashamed of this movie. I don't get that, Oh,
she's great in it. I assume that, like she yeah,
she just had bad memories of making it with. You know,
she probably she clearly was a level above some of
these people she was working with, so I'm sure that
colored her perspective.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I also don't think she liked her name
being beside the campaign art that they eventually went with.
Speaker 5: Either oh probably not.
Speaker 6: You know, well, while she's while she's busy things the balcony,
she's in something called Staying the High Heels with make
miles of stars all over And I.
Speaker 5: Was like, oh, yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, but
I feel like the same applies to Meg. I don't
know before Meg passed away if anyone actually sat her
down and was like, let's watch this, see how amazing.
Speaker 2: You are, regardless of the memories. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well, here's what she said. I don't even put on
my resume. Meg, Yes, because why don't we Well, let's
get into the worst part of this. What ended up
happening later on in the production while they were filming
the nude swim scene out in Connecticut, revealing photos were
secretly photographed of her. In her own quotes, she says,
a no photos edict was posted on the location set.
Only essential film crew members were present. I spent a
very long time in the cold water, and alcohol was
given to me in a bottle to help ward off
the cold. Someone snuck those shots of me being pulled
out of the water, and in another newspaper bit, she
she went because she went on to publicly decry the
fact that this happened. I have a piece saying Meg
Miles is not at all happy. She went to considerable
expense to build a new Meg classes acted at the
Actors Studio and a wardrobe with which played down her
formidable proportions. So what's happening. What's happening is that Meg's
movie Saying Hi Heels is about to be released. There's
a nude bathing scene in the film featured the old Meg,
and the producers refused to scissor it out.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So this, this little blurb came out on
the news wire before the movie was even released.
Speaker 5: That's yees a wild two years for this to come
out for some reason.
Speaker 6: And also those photos started being started gain leaked to
men's magazines before the film even came out, So everyone
is thinking that they're going to see a lot more
of Meg than they are.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 6: And so she later on did this long piece where
she talks where she talks about the fact that that
like you know, like like hey, greater actresses, we're doing
We're doing this. I didn't want to, but like, hey,
you know, I went and did it. They said that
I was going to have a stand in. I got there.
There's no stand in. I'm in this freezing water. So
it happens, and then suddenly she's horrified to reveal that
these photos start popping up in all these magazines. So yeah,
she tried a bit too.
Speaker 2: Did you ever find excidence of those photos I found?
Speaker 6: I couldn't find like PDFs of the magazines that are
supposedly in it. Them actually has a whole list of
all the magazine appearances she has, including the ones which
include the swimming shots. The only one song I've ever
seen is one is one with her breasts so close
to the water you could like definitely see your nipples
and things like that. Okay, Okay, Well.
Speaker 5: I guess this is what happens when you're your magazine
publishers who were working with models, and a director who
has worked with burlesque dancers, and now you're working with
like professional singers and actors, and you don't know how
to adjust your professionalism to match the professionalism of everyone
else that you've cast in this film.
Speaker 2: I mean that's yeah, because.
Speaker 5: Even Deltennie was a professional actor, Like everyone involved with
this is a professional. So yeah, I guess that makes
sense that Meg and Grayson are like, this is insane.
Speaker 2: It's really crazy.
Speaker 5: What would I sign up for?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Dell Tenny and whatever I've found just only
like really pass it off, like there's like proto porn things.
I did like saying high Heels and Orgy at Lill's place.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was just the like, well, Dell was lucky
because whatever scene or in this place, now that we've
seen it, we know that it's not poorn anything. But
neither is Satan I eels there's nothing remotely pornographic about
either of them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. However, the reviewers really made it seem like
they did. It did for some odd reason, like reviewers
really freaked out. That's all I have about about the production,
the only good.
Speaker 5: Stuff, But it also kind of sours it. It's like,
how did something that was such a trouble production turn
out to be so terrific? I guess, I guess. I
think it helps that it's so beautifully photographed by Hers
Andson that it covers up all of that, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it also makes me wonder, you know, regarding
these lost scenes in footage, was it possible they saw
a version with something spicier in there, because yeah, there's
no wonder.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'll get into that. So how I figured
this out first was, Yeah, I got to Leonard Bertman.
I started looking through PDFs of his magazines. Later I
came across the issue of High heels, that that haddle
think of Sabrina that's in the corner that said power
of Evil. I'm like, oh, I've got there's there's information
on saying hi heels. There's an alternate title, so I
flip into it and there's photos from a scene that
are in the movie, which as you saw it, folks, again,
subscribed to her Patreon. There in our show notes it is.
Speaker 5: A must subscribe. There's so much great stuff in there. Yeah,
I'm if I wasn't already on, if I wasn't the
cost of this podcast, I would be subscribed because I
want to access all this stuff, folks.
Speaker 6: I will tell you I'm gonna start slowly putting up
some of these exploitation actress features from these magazines where
they'd be complacable. You're gonna get good stuff. But anyway,
so this this Meg, this Meg showed shots of Arnold
and Stacy in his bedroom. She's half undressed, he's in
pajamas and she's like sitting on the bed like with
her and there's a bed with her leg extended and
she's got a high heel on. I think that's what
I thought. Yeah, I wasna A shot of him putting
the high on her and and things like that, and
I thought that this was that this was like cut
out and completely lost. However, there was just a video
of Vinegar Syndrome headquarters where you saw some cans for
Satan and high heels.
Speaker 2: Yes, we looked at those videos with a microscope.
Speaker 6: Didn't we, guys. And I freaked out. And I freaked
out because I think it said like, I don't know,
one of the cans are like fine grain or something,
and so I thought that Vinegar Sydom at least had
the fine grain for it, which I'm like, fantastic. So
only the nag is held hostage, they have the second
best thing. They have a fine grain. Okay, great, I
comment on that, and good old Joe Rubin says, no,
these are just for hot scenes. So Vinegar Syndrome has
cans of Saint hi heels that supposedly hot sequences, but
they remain unseen.
Speaker 5: But also that's surprising because if those came from, if
those are part of the movie laborate, then they I
would think they would have been on the DVD. So
where did the surface from?
Speaker 6: Maybe they should have later because that yet to go through.
Speaker 5: Well, that's true. That's why I took forever to get
to the seeds, work print and some other stuff on there.
This Munt Peddler was a late discovery. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: I would not that I've seen those inserted.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't need to see them inserted because I like
the movie as it is. I think it works as
it is perfectly. I wouldn't mind watching those just to
get an idea of what audiences might potentially have seen
that was a little sleazier and a little more adult
and more more tuned into the audience that the publishers
were already trying to appeal to with their magazines.
Speaker 6: They were shot in the can, but did they ever
end up in any prince event We do not know.
Speaker 5: It's the thing, well, maybe they only went to specific
territories that they knew would be maybe more okay. Was
it like, well, I don't know in sixty two what
territory has never been okay with them?
Speaker 2: So here's true European export. I don't know.
Speaker 6: This wasn't a This wasn't released in as a typical
sexploitation film. It was this was this was this was
so this was released was an independent general release film.
It premiered at the Forum in Manhattan. Huge Ads too,
like they like cosmic films, put in money for this
What D did open and I Haven't written down somewhere
here March twenty three, nineteen sixty two, and one of
the things you could get if you were there early.
They handed out to two hundred free albums as well
in credible album so if you like that music. Yeah.
So also like unlike other like other films, this also
had an album release, which for the album and a.
Speaker 5: Book, which is so unheard of for both things one
maybe maybe one, but for both they really were really
they were they were really they were putting a lot
of eggs in one basket with this. They were like,
this is going to be a huge hit and we're
going to make it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well it seemed well. Remind me to get to the
book later on because we got yeah as well to
Yeah for sure. But this did do well. I only
because this played so much. I only chronicled nineteen sixty
two in that year. And also you know it was
tame because it it like two months into its run,
started playing in Canada and weird notorious up here, Oh
we're crazy up here. About our censorship nineteen sixty two.
It played it in at least one hundred different spots
throughout that year. Yes, it's God and cosmic films is odd.
The only other film they released was a really bizarre
French sci fi comedy called Nude in His Pocket, which
was sing So that.
Speaker 5: Was a fifty It wasn't that a fifty seven movie?
That was really it's a reissue.
Speaker 6: Yeah wow, but for somebody. But the main co feature
it played with a lot was the girl was girl
can't help it?
Speaker 10: Okay Field, which is crazy to that twentieth century foul
Oh well okay, yeah, its second run twentieth century Fox.
Speaker 5: Can't I guess control that if you have a print
of it, you'll just play it.
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 6: Well, well they must know it played a lot with
Girl with It was its number one b it had
it played at least fifty spots. I I don't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, twenty centry Fox wouldn't have saddled this with saddled
their movie with something like this. I wouldn't think unless
they were like, well, this saves us from actually doing
anything in the adult market, but still making money off
of that market.
Speaker 2: Butotentially it wasn't the adult market though this was this
was amazing.
Speaker 5: Wasn't It was more of an adult market situation, So
so it played.
Speaker 6: So it played consistently from nineteen sixty two to nineteen
sixty four, kind of it's quote unquote first run. After
that it became it became it still had likes. It
became a second feature for occasional other general stuff, and
then also became lumped in with early sexploitation product like
Doctor Sex, like Newdi's and things like that throughout the
rest of the sixties.
Speaker 2: So I wonder if this that lost top footage was
ever inserted when it became a second feature. That would
have been the time later if they ever did. But
again there's no evidence that they ever it was ever
in there exactly it.
Speaker 5: Was well, and I guess did you see if it
was handled? But was it always that same distributor.
Speaker 6: From whatever credits I could find, because like, yeah, that's
like when it was when it was second feature, and
in this exploitation it's mostly just like the title listed
like as plus Satan high Heels right like.
Speaker 5: A friend bline around that they never returned or something.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, only only its first release was well, so
Cosmic could have also just like letting me. It's kind
of like how how Friedman let she Freak be a
second feature for other people's films like Cosmic could have.
Just that's true, Like like yeah, offered it for flat rental.
You know.
Speaker 5: Well, it makes me wonder what the budget was for this.
Maybe they're just like, we just need to keep it
playing forever because we need more money coming in to
cover the budgeting this thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think so.
Speaker 5: I think pressing a pressing, an LP and a book
and all this other shit attached. It's like they put
money into this, Like I think they wanted to make
sure they got everything back.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: It did do well in certain spots in certain key cities. Again,
it wasn't like an exploitation film where it could stay
for like ten weeks if it did super well. The
most played was four weeks in Portland. Other good spots
were New York. It did well. Chicago. It did well Chicago.
It normally played five at a time. It came played
in five different theaters, disappeared for one of those, Yeah,
came back for five more. Yeah. It got semi saturation
and coupled in a couple bigger metropolitan cities interesting wow,
and went to a lot more backwater places. I found
this playing so many weird areas in like Pennsylvania and stuff.
It really bounced and bounced and bounced and bounce and mounts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well the title is really the title is great. Yeah,
titles also great.
Speaker 6: It's nothing.
Speaker 5: It's nothing that also wouldn't need to be censored in newspapers.
So it's tantalizing without being two provocatives. It's not one
of those things. It's like, call the theater for this title.
It's like, no Satan a eels sounds great. It sounds
like a film noir. It could be a film noir,
could be a sexy movie, it could be anything. Yeah.
Speaker 6: It had a great tagline the smile, the shape, the
silky softness of an angel with that with that key
art of may of yeah, that key art.
Speaker 5: Yeah see I hear. I hate those stories of the
production sucking because I just think everything connected to this
movie just like hits my heart. It's just like really
it really just like I love it all. I love
it all a handful.
Speaker 6: Of Like this is one of my top favorite movies
within like twenty year or so. I love this movie.
Speaker 2: See this is one that I feel like I'm a
little disconnected from you guys on this is.
Speaker 5: A ra Really it was because you were expecting it
to be sexier, Yes, yes, okay, then that might have
been one, because it really isn't. It really is just
like a it's a character starting of a horrible woman
trying to make her way ahead.
Speaker 2: It's you know what it's like.
Speaker 5: It's I wonder if you'd gone into it expecting to
see something like Babyface with Barbara Stanwick, where it is
similar to that where she basically is sleeping her way
through this one location to try to make the try
to you know, I'm successful. Baby Face is actually well,
except for the nude scenes. Babyface is actually more suggestive
than this exactly, and.
Speaker 2: That was thirty years previously, almost exactly. Actually, I'm trying
to look back now. It's like the hot the like
most striking part of this movie to me was just
like the small scene where she's finally wearing leather and
you can hear like the cracking of the leather on
the microphone. I was like, oh, that's good. I like that.
I haven't heard like a movie of this type that. Yeah,
I wanted more of that.
Speaker 5: Though, yeah, I get that, Like, she doesn't even doesn't
even crack the whip.
Speaker 2: There's not a single whip crack in this home movie.
Speaker 6: Well, she hits, she hits at the end, Yeah.
Speaker 2: When he's when he's on the ground. Yeah, yeah, she
but she's not like cracked it.
Speaker 6: Yeah. What sucks is that she gets hit, she gets smacked. Yeah,
she's the one who gets whacked actor.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So also, so I'm for our girl.
Speaker 6: Like, despite the fact that you know it played a lot,
it was eviscerated by reviewers.
Speaker 5: The only good.
Speaker 6: Thing it got it got that had a good mention
was mondel Lowe's score when the soundtrack was released. Yes,
that's the only part of it that got that got
a good one. I've got to in case anyway, I've
got to talk about the ones. Yes, okay, So in Bob,
reviewer Bob Walters in Portland, when it was Plainet's longest
run at the five Arts, gave it a terrible review.
But I will, I will, I will point out the
last paragraph though at the very end. The only thing
he says that might make someone want to go to
see this is there is one outstanding scene. However, Stacy
back in the sack after an early morning swim, is
just about to seduce the club owner's son, and she
gives him one of the most erotic kisses ever seen
on film. Compared to this bit, friends, the much discussed
cozy secrets in The Lovers is like two six year
old six year olds plane spin the bottle. Well, the
Fine Arts read that review and they put a quote
in their ad that instead said one of the most
erotic compared to The Lovers is like two six year
olds playing Spin the bottle. And then a day or
so later, while that ad was still up, so the
ad and then his column beside it, Bob says, yes,
I know the Fine Arts is using an out of
context quote from this column in its ads for that
lousy movie Satan High Heels. Just to set the record straight,
I hereby offer another quote from the same column. The
Fine Arts Theater, in spite of its high sounding name,
is well on the way to becoming a cinematic junk yard.
You're welcome Fine Arts anytime.
Speaker 2: Just like you, bitch five, I know, but also like
this review.
Speaker 5: This bothers me in this review.
Speaker 6: And they called it a sex film too, It's not Yes,
they did really well, he says, so.
Speaker 5: Bob Walters writes his star the Start, Miss Miles goes
around wearing tight black leather outfits which make her look
like an over sex seal Rude and other of his players,
a blonde called Sabrina, is so front heavy that one
Marvel's at house he manages to stay erect.
Speaker 6: I hate that.
Speaker 5: And then this other review David Cobby mentioned there's Britain Sabrina,
that wretchedly talentless, mountainous wasteland. She has nothing to do
with the Plata sets. But taking the word fetish at
this absolute quote inanimate object regarded with awe, she qualifies
as one all on her own, like you.
Speaker 6: Know what that feelies? What?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Like forgot nothing? What it is? Not a Garden of fetishes.
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 6: No, I wish, I mean, I wish there was a movie.
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 6: I wish there was a movie called Garden of Fetishes.
Speaker 5: But that's a great title.
Speaker 6: So in the end, do not know what Bertman and
Himmel saw from it. For the next two years there
was little Things planted in the paper saying that producer
Leonard Bertman is getting two different projects off the ground.
He tried to get off the ground. Nothing ever came
of them, and nothing but exploitation eight like more more
straight straight lace dramas and things like that. So he
continued publishing after this and that was about it.
Speaker 2: It's too bad he didn't try again in the late
sixties when he could have like really pushed his fetish
imagery to you know, to the limit that time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what if he was what if he was Cosmo Advance,
wouldn't that be interesting?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got Cosmo Advance.
Speaker 5: Movies are pretty are pretty kinky, pretty fashy, I wonder.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but but it's interesting.
Speaker 5: Could he could have been anybody?
Speaker 2: Who knows? But I wonder. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6: It is it is interesting that at least after saying
high heels, because those books, the books came out in
like the late sixties, he then I think started pointing
out sexploitation novelizations rights as well. So he's still around
a little bit.
Speaker 5: So it's still connected with that film industry in some way.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the Sterman connection too. And that's the thing,
even the connection to Sterman, with with Sterman's connection to film,
I'm really surprised. I guess this. I guess the taste
of satan a Eel's left such a such a sour
memory in his mind that he was like, I don't
think this.
Speaker 6: Is for me again. It seemed like you couldn't get
anything off the ground, and publishing at this point was
still doing really well for him.
Speaker 5: Right, So why bother doing something that's so difficult when
publishing is so easy?
Speaker 2: Such a gamble?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's like, yes, yeah, once you have publishing
down pat you know what works, it's less. Why take
a risk on something that could lose you so much
money when you know that you have a guaranteed source
of income and it's something you enjoy doing too.
Speaker 6: And he's spent a lot of money. He obviously did
spend a lot of money on this film. Like he
really did not need to get Sabrina in this Like
he like he could have been cheaper. It could have
been cheaper than what it must have cost.
Speaker 5: You're telling me there wasn't an entertainer like her in
New York at that time. Come on, you know, but
I think he wanted that continent. I think he wanted
something continental. He understood her appeal. Trying to get a
French drag performer I think he clearly was aiming for
the stars with his first movie, because he was like,
if we're gonna do it, we're gonna do something like
extravagant and big. But I think he was thinking, yeah,
I mean, when you're coming from the publishing world. That
explained why all these professional actors were just like, this
isn't it, This is not it exactly.
Speaker 6: I says writings at she's writing this, I must see
speak of exploitation. Though, gentry, if if you didn't like
this film because of that, you would have loved the
novelization for this, because this is like, because this is
pretty much the exploitation version of Satan high Heels. This
takes the move, This takes the move. I like both.
I do really like this book, but it is a
different beast. It's faithful to the film, but it takes
a lot of sleazy liberties. I took notes of all
the like really big onesh I go through God, yes, yes, okay,
Oh my God. So yeah, Like Paul is very openly
gay because he hires a little stud that he's trying
to get at in the club. What Yes.
Speaker 2: Okay has occasional.
Speaker 6: Lea Zhon's with various women because she comes into the
She comes into the club haggard and Vince's like, was
it a hard night? And she was like and it
mentions that she had a like rough to go. Yeah, everyone,
everyone's more in depth than this she is. She herself
is very flustered by Stacy and her attractiveness later on, Actually,
the whole thing is interesting. It is very explicit about
the fact that right off the bat, Pepe is intentionally
polishing Stacy up for Arnold's pleasure. She and Stacy have
sex multiple times so that Pepe can like teach her
all the like weird little things that Arnold is into.
So she breaks So she very explicitly breaks Stacy in
for her, and it's continuously brought up that like, yeah,
you're eventually gonna be with Arnold, Like that's eventually going
to happen. Sabrina is not remotely airheaded. The second Stacy
and Sabrina meet, Stacy immediately rips into Sabrina and they
immediately befom a rivalry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, more sex, probably because Sabrina as an actress is
limited and so they were able to give her more
to do.
Speaker 2: In the book, Brina bring that to life, Yeah, well.
Speaker 6: Actually this is only the real moment that she actually
shines in the book, oddly enough, and then because also
around this in the in the same time of the movie,
like as you know, is also when she meets Lawrence
and begins a thing with him. In the book, when
they first meet, he sneaks into a dressing room and
they have sex and Lawrence immediately falls in love with her. Yeah,
Stacy is better. Stacey's a lot more manipulative. When Arnold
finds out about their fair, she does this whole thing
where she like literally pretends to start packing up and leaving,
and he has this like giant breakdown. Don't leave me,
don't leave me.
Speaker 2: I have a little bit of that in the movie. Yeah,
where it gets.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it's a lot more intense though, like Stacy
actually fakes remorse for what she did. She's like, h
I feel so bad, Like I guess you won't want me.
She goes forlornly to like pack up and things, and he's.
Speaker 2: Like no, no, no no.
Speaker 6: Then the other big thing, Larry actually does meet with
her before the show onlike in the movie, but is
taken away and then in a darker in even darker
than the ending to the film, Stacy larly walks out
with the clothes on her back from the club. Arnold
takes the apartment keys out of her hand after the
whole scuffle in the back room, so she once again
walks out. Oh and in this one, her outfit, her
club outfit is a fitted leather dress with tall, like
knee high boots. So she walks out like she did
in the carnival, in her outfit and just a coat
over her back, out into the streets.
Speaker 5: That yeah, I like that though.
Speaker 6: Mm hmm. Yeah, very good book. I kind of want
to contact the grandson and ask if he's interested in
like re release it. It's a good little novel. I
liked a lot.
Speaker 2: We'll see.
Speaker 5: That's the thing. If somebody was going to be, you know,
his grands re issuing, if someone's going to be reissuing
this on fucking blu ray do it paperback reissue tie
in several Yeah, And since Severn has now established that
they can do business with this turd, then maybe they're
the plate, they're the people to do this. I would
love that that book to be reissued.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They have done like a small little paperback tie in,
have they They've hired.
Speaker 6: They've done fresh ones.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh that's true. They have done fresh ones. Yes,
that's true. No, they Yeah, they haven't done reissues of
existing books that they have had paperback tie in novels
like they did. Then they do nine of the Demon one.
There's a bunch on the website.
Speaker 6: I never I'm not interested men.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I like that they do it, but I'm not. Yeah,
I think so, I'm not. Yeah, it's not like we're
arrow repressed the Blood Feast paperback for that box set
that I bought. I still haven't read that yet.
Speaker 6: I'm interested in nobilizations at the time because again, like
I got this hoping that this was based off the
script and I would maybe figure out what was missing.
But this takes too many liberties. There's just too many
liberties for this. But you know, as like horror fans know,
like April Fool Say and stuff, novelizations can have alternate
stuff in them. Yeah, that's kind of That's kind of
what's interesting about novelizations from that time. Nowadays you do
just watch the movie and it's just the fans. I see,
like people like them. Some people like them, they're.
Speaker 5: Not forget the appeal, but they're just not for me.
I'd rather see and I'm well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want Yeah, that's what I want.
Speaker 5: Well, I know, you know what, something Viniger when District
Picts could do that because they're gonna be eventually be
putting out Starlet and that yes paperback time and which
I also still need to read. That would be a
great reissue too. So it's you know, there there are
enough interesting examples that could be good reissues for sexploitation books,
but this is one that, like I remember, I bought
it years ago and I still haven't read it. It's
sitting on my night side. I was supposed to read
it before this episode, but I knew you were, so
I was gonna be.
Speaker 6: I was gonna be good, folks. I'll put that out there.
Unlike like Olympic photo readers and things like that, this
could be found every once in the moon. I wouldn't
pay more than twenty twenty five for it. I is
a good read. I do like it. Like I was
talking to another one of our palza who was like,
I wish this film had more sex. I was like,
you've got to read the book. It's the sexploitation version.
Speaker 2: It's all it's the slast I'm not alone somebody else.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's interesting to me though. Yeah, I mean the
lack of sex and that sexploitation movie has never bothered
me because I can if there's enough that's interesting in
it without the sex, then I'm like, that's great, you know,
I think if you go in. But honestly, I also
going with expectations into sex movies. Unless I go into
a Barry Mayhon movie and think it's going to be
terrible and then there's that not to be then it's like,
oh wow, okay, great.
Speaker 2: I do like this.
Speaker 5: I go in with low expectations so that I tend
to be more impressed, and I kind of rate in
a higher grades expectation because I go in with low
expectations because I know the history of it and stuff
like that. So yeah, this is and this is so
early in the genre anyway. But yeah, I think when
you're when you're considering that Olga came to the screens
two years later, technically four years after production of this movie.
You know, I can't believe it took two years for
this thing to come out, but.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it came out in nineteen sixty two. It was
finished at the very end of nineteen sixty year.
Speaker 5: Oh they shot it in December of sixty.
Speaker 6: No, it was shot in October. Shot October. They must
have cut it.
Speaker 5: Ohtober sixty. Okay, God, that's a long time to take
to cut it.
Speaker 6: I know. Wow, Well they did at least cut it
like nineteen sixty. Then it was who knows what was
going on for a year spam so long.
Speaker 2: That's really how much they were probably deciding, you know,
how far they wanted to push some of these scenes.
That's true. I bet they were like, Okay, is this
going to be a straight up mainstream, get this as
many theaters as possible type of thing, or.
Speaker 6: Is this Yeah, I wonder if this weird company, Cosmic Films,
was like one of the few, was like I'll try
it all right, whoever, whoever these people were.
Speaker 2: Whoever they were right, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6: But it's because yeah, I mean like in art film
distributor like like like back when like Joseph Brenner and
Sam Lake were doing just like art films things like that,
Like they couldn't have done this film in the general
release market. They weren't really doing.
Speaker 5: That, No, because yeah, exactly, Well, except for Joe Brenner
handled the Seducers. I think that was his attempt to
do something like this where it was something a little
that was a little more mainstream. But even then, Yeah,
he did not do that for that long. I mean
he went back into the gutter pretty quickly. Everyone had
to try to get a little more substantial business with
so Sam Bordon I think tried at once too, didn't he.
We talked about that like with one like it wasn't
nudes of all nations substance substantially more of a well
that's still s exploitation, so I guess not.
Speaker 6: Well, well, I also I'm still flabbergast says to why
he even handled my baby as black, Like, was that
an attempt to do something? I don't know what us
up with that?
Speaker 2: That title, I don't know, that's so strange.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that from at least.
Speaker 5: Checker Checkerboard is a title that could pass as an
art film, and it is an art film. When you
watch the film, it's such an art it's such an artsy,
fartsy French movie.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I was like, was was he going for
like a more general exploitation shocker with that title and
stuff that title.
Speaker 5: For sure, Yes, but then checker I would think Checkerboard
would be his attempt to be like a crossover because
checker Board, I mean, Checkerboard is the kind of movie
that I could see someasy sex watata producer thinking I
can submit to the Academy for some awards or something.
No chance in hell. You know, somebody, somebody with with
the taste of some of these distributors would think that
something is art whend isn't necessarily you know, art. Yeah,
I guess I understand why you kind of let your
feelings about that saying there wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was looking for more sex necessarily, but just more
like fetish imagery. You know. Right when it opens, the
credits are like, oh, they're gonna have they have a
leather wardrobe consultant and lingerie and furs and footwear. I'm like, oh,
let's let's and it kind of goes by really fast,
like yeah, she grabs a fur out of the closet
and then you don't see it again. It's just like
I wanted more more.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Again, with with the Bertman connection, I was a
little mystified, and yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2: Like this is a guy who's like into this stuff,
let's see more of it. I don't know, but okay,
it's the time. Like I said, a few years later,
maybe he could have gotten away with it, but maybe
that's what they were cutting, you know for.
Speaker 6: So imagine if this guy inserts, Jerry came back, did inserts.
Speaker 2: Let's not do that to Meg. Don't do that to Meg. Well,
that's the thing. We don't know. We don't, we don't.
Speaker 5: We don't know what those are.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're you know, maybe he did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe he did.
Speaker 2: We don't know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, kind of like yeah, it makes me think of
like the Moonline wives thing where mostly where mostly but
like occasionally you did get the slightly hotter one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think at this point, Yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 5: I think going in this exploitation, I first of all,
I never expect it's going to match what I've heard
about the film, or it's going to match the advertising. Yeah,
I've always loved this because I went in, I don't
know what I went expecting. I think also because it's
because it was a sexy shocker when I first saw it,
and so I was expecting it to be like more
a sexy shocker and it's not it's like a really
terrific melodrama. And so yeah, I don't need any of
the stuff that the film is promising and the advatas
a campaign, because it won me over with the performances,
the cinematography. It works as a film. So I don't
need it to be kinky or sexy or any of
that stuff. But I can understand why.
Speaker 2: I think that's.
Speaker 5: Probably why it got the reviews that it got. That
kind of minds me of Vincent can be raking memories
of the Missaggi over the coole, saying like, well, this
is a porno movie and it's really slow and boring,
and he thinks that he's Bergmann and Baha, It's like, well,
maybe lock into the fact that it's a well made
movie and maybe, yeah, I'm sorry, you can't jerk your
girkin in the theater watching members of the miss Aggy.
Maybe focus on the filmmaking aspects of it, like you're
a New York Times reviewer that you are.
Speaker 2: I'm but looking forward to rewatching it, that's for sure,
because now I have, like you know, I don't have
those expectations.
Speaker 6: Yeah I did. I liked the baron to rewatch I
appreciate it when my first side, but then I had
to take a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Actually, you know what you should do?
Speaker 5: Watch Oh yeah, you don't have the DVD, right, you
watched this on YouTube?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have the DVA.
Speaker 5: Okay, oh yeah, see if you watch the DVD. If
you have the DVD, you can then watch The Wild
and the Naked to get your exploitation Jolly's and then
go back to Satan and I heels and be like, Okay,
this is like a legitimate sordid melodrama I have.
Speaker 2: I have access to the Wild and the Naked.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so watch that, watch that, and then be like,
this is the ship that was coming out in nineteen
sixty two, and then go back and be like, Okay,
that's why this is elevated exploitation.
Speaker 2: Wild and then Naked is exhausting.
Speaker 6: So much running, I mean exhausting for her, sure, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah for me to watch as well.
Speaker 5: I know it's not Wait, there's more running in Passion,
and I think there's way that loop scream over and over.
Speaker 6: You know what, I have waiting for the French girly
to look over the reservoir and see Passion. The sun
girly running past with the suitcase they have.
Speaker 5: They have mirror experiences.
Speaker 8: It didn't stinking nattle Dona.
Speaker 2: I don't care if you can breathe or not. You'llware
a girdle and smile.
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