Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like say subscribe and rade it.
Speaker 2: I'm stuck and me.
Speaker 1: The greatest con us today and listening watching lim always
Speaker 1: keep its watching.
Speaker 2: And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bobo Fay.
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, this is big Foot and Beyond with Cliff
Speaker 1: and usually Bobo and Matt Prewitt is lurking around in
Speaker 1: the background as he often does. As you can tell
Speaker 1: by my introduction, Bobo is not here today. He is
Speaker 1: otherwise engaged in crazy mischief that probably nobody should be
Speaker 1: getting into. But Boba doesn't care. He doesn't follow the rules.
Speaker 1: He is like Sasquatches, the ultimate anarchists. But we have
Speaker 1: Matt Pruitt. How you doing, Matt, Well.
Speaker 2: I'm excited about today's guest. I know that when she
Speaker 2: visited the museum you are really impressed with a lot
Speaker 2: of the knowledge that she had about the subjects and
Speaker 2: about other subjects in general. So I won't belabor the
Speaker 2: points too much before we get into it. But I
Speaker 2: always try to announce when some of our previous guests,
Speaker 2: and especially previous guests that are friends of mine are
Speaker 2: doing something new, and so I did want to say
Speaker 2: that our good friend Mike Mays who wrote to me
Speaker 2: the definitive book about the black panther phenomenon in North America,
Speaker 2: which is called shadow Cats. He wrote an excellent sasquatch
Speaker 2: book called Valley of the Apes The Search for Sasquatch,
Speaker 2: and aria X has released a new book and it's
Speaker 2: his second kid's book. It's called Beware the Pink Gorilla,
Speaker 2: and it's really awesome. I got to read it. I
Speaker 2: got to see a lot of the art that was
Speaker 2: done for it. It's super cool. So it's a great
Speaker 2: kids book for those of you who were parents who
Speaker 2: are looking for gifts. It's good for ages like eight
Speaker 2: to twelve years old. So I will have a link
Speaker 2: to that in the show notes, and I'll also put
Speaker 2: links to Mike's author page if you want to pick
Speaker 2: up any of his other excellent books as well.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Mike's a good friend of the show. Of course,
Speaker 1: he's been on before. We should have him back on
Speaker 1: the sometime, right. Oh.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, We barely scratched the surface with a lot of
Speaker 2: that stuff, so I think he would be a great
Speaker 2: return guest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he's always up to something squatchy. I think, indeed, well,
Speaker 1: I think this is probably a good time to go
Speaker 1: ahead and bring in our guests. And our guest today
Speaker 1: is Donna de Erko. I think that everybody probably knows
Speaker 1: her from her more iconic roles like in Baywatch, for example,
Speaker 1: she's a playboy play made at one time in her
Speaker 1: past or whatever else, but that's all in the past. Now.
Speaker 1: She is involved in a YouTube series called Mythbound, which
Speaker 1: is why she's on our show. Besides she's just a
Speaker 1: cool person of course, But Mythbound is this new YouTube
Speaker 1: series where she travels around to famous paranormal places and
Speaker 1: mysterious locations and whatever around the world, investigating things like
Speaker 1: UFOs and Area fifty one and of course haunted things
Speaker 1: and our favorite thing in the entire world sasquatches man
Speaker 1: all sorts of cryptids. So I did an episode recently
Speaker 1: with Donna, and I thought this was a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to have her show broadcast out to you guys, our listeners,
Speaker 1: because I think this is something that you, our listenership,
Speaker 1: would probably really really enjoy. So Donna, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for coming on our little podcast out here. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking a little bit of time for us.
Speaker 3: Ay Cliff, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 3: I'm super excited to be on here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, very good. We're excited to have you. Honestly. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you have such a past, you know, in
Speaker 1: media in general, you know, television shows, You've been an actress,
Speaker 1: a model, you just go down the list, You've pretty
Speaker 1: much done everything. So is it just time to do
Speaker 1: the coolest thing of your entire career and make something
Speaker 1: about sasquatches and other weird things like how did this
Speaker 1: come about?
Speaker 3: You know? Seriously, I've been so into this kind of
Speaker 3: stuff and this type of you know, content for I
Speaker 3: don't know as long as I can remember, since I
Speaker 3: was probably in third grade, which is going back quite
Speaker 3: a long way, and I just never could really you know,
Speaker 3: as you know, back in the day, anybody who who
Speaker 3: said that they, for example, saw Ufo or saw Bigfoot
Speaker 3: or something like that were labeled to a cook and
Speaker 3: you know, you're crazy, and you're you're you know, that's
Speaker 3: so silly and stuff. Well, so I didn't really talk
Speaker 3: about my interest in in all of those things because
Speaker 3: of that reason. I was just I feared, you know,
Speaker 3: being ridiculed, but now actually, largely because of your show,
Speaker 3: because of finding Bigfoot, I think that that that this
Speaker 3: kind of atmosphere has started to change around those things
Speaker 3: to where it's not so silly and people aren't really ridiculed.
Speaker 3: Maybe they are a little bit here and there, but
Speaker 3: nothing like they used to be. I think now it's
Speaker 3: okay to believe that Bigfoot exists, or think that you
Speaker 3: you know, believe that you saw some UFO or something
Speaker 3: like that. I think it's it's just different now. So
Speaker 3: I figured, well, I've always wanted to travel to different
Speaker 3: locations and check out people that have seen something, either
Speaker 3: seeing a UFO, saw Bigfoot, saw some lake monster, you know,
Speaker 3: gone to some sort of miraculous something that's appeared somewhere
Speaker 3: that somebody saw. I've always been intrigued and fascinated where
Speaker 3: I want to travel and go see those things or
Speaker 3: talk to these people. But I didn't know what to
Speaker 3: do with that. And now I'm at a place, you know,
Speaker 3: thankfully in my life, where I have the ability to
Speaker 3: do that. And I talked to my manager and I
Speaker 3: was like, we should bring I should bring camera and
Speaker 3: bring others along to see what it is that I'm
Speaker 3: seeing that I'm into, because I'm sure there's a lot
Speaker 3: of people out there that are also into the same stuff,
Speaker 3: and come to find out, there.
Speaker 1: Are, and there's certainly no shortage of witnesses. And it
Speaker 1: seems that you're very drawn to the witnesses. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people are because it's it's just something
Speaker 1: humans like I say it often on the podcast that
Speaker 1: we've been telling stories to each other for three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand years around a gampire, somebody sharing something that's that
Speaker 1: is meaningful to them that they experienced. You know that
Speaker 1: that the weight of that experience is often conveyed very
Speaker 1: very well through witnesses. It is so, and it seems
Speaker 1: to me that the Mythbound your YouTube show is largely
Speaker 1: focused on that. Am I correct or incorrect with that?
Speaker 3: No, it's for sure. It's I try to get as
Speaker 3: many witnesses as I can for episodes and for whatever
Speaker 3: myth I happen to be investigating that week. But I
Speaker 3: have to tell you, it's really it's kind of hard
Speaker 3: to get people to want to come forward and talk
Speaker 3: to me on camera, because you know, I can go
Speaker 3: into a city and talk to somebody that's seen something
Speaker 3: and then leave and go back home. That person has
Speaker 3: to live there in their community. And once they're on
Speaker 3: camera saying I saw a lake monster in Lake Erie,
Speaker 3: they open themselves up to ridicule, especially if it's a
Speaker 3: small town, and so it's it's a little tough sometimes
Speaker 3: to get people to you know, be okay with saying
Speaker 3: what they've seen on camera and talking to me about it.
Speaker 3: But the ones that do, I'm really grateful for. They're
Speaker 3: always you know, they're always treated with There's never mockery,
Speaker 3: there's no nothing like that with me, because I'm extremely
Speaker 3: interested and curious about what people have seen and hearing
Speaker 3: their story and seeing where it is that they saw
Speaker 3: what they said they saw, it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 1: Well, the hesitant twist witnesses are always my favorites because honestly,
Speaker 1: because if people are really really eager to come on
Speaker 1: your show, well that might even be a red flag
Speaker 1: for somebody who's not being totally honest or maybe even
Speaker 1: exaggerating what the small experience into something larger, you know,
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: So, now, of course you and I did an episode
Speaker 1: together and I basically did a walk through the North
Speaker 1: American Bigfoot Center with you, and I kind of pitched
Speaker 1: it to you at the times, like, well, this is
Speaker 1: gonna be like a change of format. It's going to
Speaker 1: be kind of cool. Yeah, and hopefull and hopefully I've
Speaker 1: not seen the episode yet, hopefully it'll work out. Have
Speaker 1: you seen the episode? I know it's airing today or tomorrow.
Speaker 3: It is today, yes, and it is amazing. And I'm
Speaker 3: I have to say thank you to you because when
Speaker 3: we were first talking about you coming on and doing
Speaker 3: an episode of Mythbound, I first was wanting you to
Speaker 3: go out in the field with me and kind of
Speaker 3: do a search, and you were kind of like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, and I was thinking, oh, no, I don't
Speaker 3: know how I walked through a museum's going to be.
Speaker 3: But then when I showed up to your North American
Speaker 3: Bigfoot Center, I'm really glad that we ended up doing
Speaker 3: that and not going out into the field because your museum,
Speaker 3: I guess you would call it a museum, is so
Speaker 3: jam packed with the most fascinating stuff that I mean,
Speaker 3: I could have stayed in there for several more hours
Speaker 3: looking at all. I don't think I ended up seeing
Speaker 3: everything that you have in there, but it's just mind blowing.
Speaker 3: What you've done there is unlike anything I've been to
Speaker 3: a ton of museums, and yours is unlike anything I've
Speaker 3: ever been in. And I've got to hand it to you,
Speaker 3: you did a fantastic job on that place. It's just
Speaker 3: it's just captivating from the second you walk in until
Speaker 3: you're done, all the way around. So you know, that
Speaker 3: was amazing and this episode's going to be one of
Speaker 3: my best, I think, So thank you for that, oh well.
Speaker 1: Very very kind words, and I sincerely appreciate it. And
Speaker 1: I got to say, told you.
Speaker 3: But you were right. Thank god you didn't listen to
Speaker 3: me and go out in the field with me, because
Speaker 3: this is so much better. It's really good.
Speaker 1: Again, I just thought it would be a nice change
Speaker 1: of format and an opportunity to learn something in a
Speaker 1: different sort of way. So I'm glad, I'm really sincerely
Speaker 1: abby that it worked out well for you, and hopefully
Speaker 1: you're of your viewership eats it up and loves it too.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, one thing that really blew me
Speaker 3: away was I've seen not in person necessarily as much
Speaker 3: as on video or online or on TV casts Bigfoot
Speaker 3: footprint casts all the time. I see them, I see
Speaker 3: people holding them up, I see picture online. But when
Speaker 3: I was in your museum and you were showing me
Speaker 3: the different casts and explaining sort of the morphology of
Speaker 3: the foot and the imprints and stuff, that was something
Speaker 3: I've never like, I never really thought about, And with
Speaker 3: the way that you explained those things to me, now
Speaker 3: those casts have become the most credible evidence. When I
Speaker 3: didn't really think much of them before. Now I look
Speaker 3: at them very differently after you explained things to me.
Speaker 3: So that was very intriguing, and I'm really hoping that
Speaker 3: the people watching will feel the same way. I think
Speaker 3: they will.
Speaker 1: Well, for whatever's worth, the only reason you're on the
Speaker 1: podcast today is because you impressed me when we're in
Speaker 1: the museum, And several times actually in the museum, you
Speaker 1: brought up something that I said, wait, wait, how would
Speaker 1: you know about that? She's actually done her homework, you know,
Speaker 1: because because one of the things I'm always wary of
Speaker 1: television shows and all that kind of stuff, because I've
Speaker 1: work in the industry and I know it's kind of
Speaker 1: shallow and superficial a lot of times, But like the
Speaker 1: one I remember the most is when I was showing
Speaker 1: you the nest reconstruction from the Olympic Project nests, right,
Speaker 1: and we were talking about that, and you said, well,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the albert ausmin nests that
Speaker 1: they found up on that shelf in the little the
Speaker 1: box canyon. And it was interwoven with this thinking like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, because because you never know, like because
Speaker 1: you're a celebrity, right, so you never know of some
Speaker 1: celebrity is just going to say, well there's a niche
Speaker 1: I can exploit, you know, and then over to the
Speaker 1: paranormal thing. And I'm very protective of our subject you know.
Speaker 1: It's like like unreasonably protective of our subjects, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, I get it. Yeah, so when you
Speaker 1: bust it out with that, and I think, I think
Speaker 1: your knowledge about the canyon stuff, for example, Like there
Speaker 1: were several times I said, wow, she's not some celebrity
Speaker 1: hack exploiting the Bigfoot thing. She actually knows what's up.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, yeah, we got to have her
Speaker 1: on the podcast.
Speaker 3: You know, there's so many, Like I said, it's been
Speaker 3: decades that I've been into this stuff, and I've just
Speaker 3: sort of read and tried to absorb as much information
Speaker 3: about these things as I can, and things like even
Speaker 3: I know that they're called different things internationally. I know,
Speaker 3: we say sasquatch, and by the way, I've been mispronouncing.
Speaker 3: My viewers have corrected me because I was saying sasquatch.
Speaker 3: They really slapped my hand on that one. So it's
Speaker 3: sasquatch and I understand that now. But sasquatch Bigfoot is here.
Speaker 3: And then overseas, I know that there's similar type of
Speaker 3: creatures like the Almas, the Alma sty and all these
Speaker 3: different stories and stuff that you've heard or that I've
Speaker 3: read about overseas too, in all these different countries that
Speaker 3: are similar but not exactly the same, and those have
Speaker 3: fascinated me too. I mean, I'm dying to go over
Speaker 3: seas and kind of explore some of those other other
Speaker 3: creatures that are that are overseas.
Speaker 1: Do you think you're gonna be able to make that happen?
Speaker 3: I would like to. I mean, I'm going overseas in
Speaker 3: the next couple of months to do some other episodes,
Speaker 3: not on any big Foot type creatures this trip, but
Speaker 3: the next trip I'm hoping to to do that.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: Like you were saying. When I went to your museum,
Speaker 3: you showed me that chart with all the list of
Speaker 3: the different what they're called in different languages and in
Speaker 3: different countries. I know that they're called different things depending
Speaker 3: on where you go. But I'm fascinated by the almiesty.
Speaker 3: There was a story. I'm sure that you know very well.
Speaker 3: You know all the stories that I could possibly mention
Speaker 3: to you, but there's one about I think it was
Speaker 3: in I want to say it might have been Russia
Speaker 3: during the war when they captured a creature and they
Speaker 3: thought that it was a spy. I probably no better
Speaker 3: where it was I want to say Russia, but I
Speaker 3: might be wrong, and where they were trying to get
Speaker 3: it to talk, and somebody wrote that you know, it
Speaker 3: was in all respects it looked like a man, but
Speaker 3: its eyes were that of an animal or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. What do
Speaker 3: you think about that? That story?
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of different things going on.
Speaker 1: I mean, I believe and Matt Prude can actually get
Speaker 1: a fact check me on this one. I think there's
Speaker 1: actually two different stories. One the most famous one is Xana.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Xana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now Xanna that has has been determined to be
Speaker 1: actually a human, like a human of African descent. Ah, okay,
Speaker 1: Doctor Brian Sykes actually the geneticist. He is the guy
Speaker 1: who determined that based on Xana's offspring. But I think
Speaker 1: there was another story. Oh that's right, you're correct. Yeah, see,
Speaker 1: there you go again. You know, Matt, wasn't there another
Speaker 1: story and besides Xana that had a similar motif.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one that Donna is referencing where they thought
Speaker 2: the individual was a spy was during some sort of
Speaker 2: like military operation or occupation. And the name escapes me,
Speaker 2: but the chief reporting party was something like Karapatian or Kara.
Speaker 3: Pat sounds right, that that sounds right.
Speaker 2: And so that's a fairly well documented case that I
Speaker 2: think Boris Porsnev brought to attention in his writings and
Speaker 2: manuscripts that that was later sort of regurgitated by Dmitri
Speaker 2: Bayanov and Igor Birdseave, etcetera. It's funny because a member
Speaker 2: had just submitted that story to us saying like, hey,
Speaker 2: you guys should do a deep dive on that someday.
Speaker 2: So that was on my to do list to brush
Speaker 2: up on. So I should have done that before today,
Speaker 2: but I thought we had.
Speaker 1: Apparently, how would you know it's going to come up? Though?
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is a different story than the Zana
Speaker 2: story for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah again, but Donna's no hack ause you can tell, man,
Speaker 1: she's she's done her homework. And I really appreciate that.
Speaker 3: So absolutely, thanks, yeah, thanks. And there's I can't remember
Speaker 3: the woman's name, but there was a woman who wrote
Speaker 3: something like the Origins of was it the Origins of Man?
Speaker 3: Or something like that? She wrote she did a really
Speaker 3: really intense deep dive documenting all of these the way
Speaker 3: that some of these creatures, depending on what country it
Speaker 3: is in they were called something else, all these sightings,
Speaker 3: and the way that they were kind of almost part
Speaker 3: of everyday life long ago and like a common sight
Speaker 3: to see long ago in certain countries. And she really
Speaker 3: went in depth doing this study on it and wrote
Speaker 3: I wish I could remember her name.
Speaker 2: Well, there were quite a few who focused on that
Speaker 2: sort of a.
Speaker 3: This was a woman like I want to say she was.
Speaker 2: There was Myra Shackley, and there was Marine G. Kaufman,
Speaker 2: and it might have been Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, those would be the big three would be
Speaker 2: Myra Shackley, Odett Cherney, and Marigian Kaufman. Who did actually.
Speaker 3: Marie Kaufman, that's the one. Yeah. I read all of
Speaker 3: her papers on it, and those were really fascinating to me.
Speaker 3: I couldn't get in. I read them like twice. They
Speaker 3: were really fascinating. So yeah, in answer to your question,
Speaker 3: I do plan to go to go overseas and look
Speaker 3: in to, you know, investigate some of these as best
Speaker 3: I can. That The problem is, I think that it
Speaker 3: might have been easier long ago, when they were either
Speaker 3: more plentiful or just not as afraid to be seen
Speaker 3: or whatever it was. They seem to have been seen
Speaker 3: a lot more frequently long ago than they are now,
Speaker 3: and I don't know what the reason for that is.
Speaker 1: I would imagine that worldwide, the mystery apes, at least
Speaker 1: in some places, are either retreating to further recluses, you know,
Speaker 1: a place of refugees further away from people, or they're
Speaker 1: actually becoming more and more and possibly going extinct in
Speaker 1: some parts of the world. We just don't know.
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask I've forgotten to ask you when
Speaker 3: I was at your museum with you, what do you
Speaker 3: think that they are? Because I know everybody kind of
Speaker 3: has a different opinion on what they are. Meaning, you know,
Speaker 3: people say, which I don't believe that it's a missing link.
Speaker 3: My personal opinion is that that's not it. Some people say,
Speaker 3: you know that there's some kind of alien life form
Speaker 3: or some kind of alien experiment gone wrong. Some people
Speaker 3: say it is a true ape. What is your opinion
Speaker 3: on what they are?
Speaker 1: Well, if we're talking worldwide, I think there's a number
Speaker 1: of things going on. Like you mentioned the almosty for example,
Speaker 1: I think the almosty is probably some sort of relic
Speaker 1: species of Neander Taller Dnisovin or some sort of a
Speaker 1: more modern hominym essentially. But when you talk about Sasquatches,
Speaker 1: I think that's a different story. I personally think that
Speaker 1: they might be some sort of relic. Now, relic is
Speaker 1: a term in biology that means still surviving in small numbers,
Speaker 1: and though they were probably once more plentiful, so there's
Speaker 1: probably I think there are probably some sort of relic
Speaker 1: paranthropy and like a paranthropist or the Gigantipithecus is still
Speaker 1: on the table. I don't see a reason to discount
Speaker 1: that yet or ost likely, because just numerically speaking, it's
Speaker 1: probably something we have. We don't have a record up
Speaker 1: in the fossil record at this right because our fossil
Speaker 1: record is so incomplete. But it's some sort of I
Speaker 1: think it's some sort of possibly a hominin, which is
Speaker 1: a fancy word for anything on our family tree since
Speaker 1: we split off from chimpanzees about six to eight million
Speaker 1: years ago, but some sort of mystery ape species, and
Speaker 1: an ape is a very broad term. And just so
Speaker 1: you know, I'm an ape, you're an ape. We're all
Speaker 1: apes because I speak about sasquatches biologically. So I think
Speaker 1: that's probably what they are, is some sort of archaic
Speaker 1: hominin species that has eked out a living in small
Speaker 1: numbers here in North America and probably other parts of
Speaker 1: the world as well. So it's as simple as that.
Speaker 3: That sounds reasonable to me too. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 3: kind of on the fence about I don't no exactly.
Speaker 3: I haven't decided in my mind what I think that
Speaker 3: they are. I just I feel very confident that they
Speaker 3: do exist. And I know that they're still being seen
Speaker 3: very frequently, but like I said, it feels like they
Speaker 3: used to be a more common sight a long time
Speaker 3: ago than they are now.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, just because they seem
Speaker 1: to be pretty common and not common nowadays. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I got another word yesterday if someone saw one on
Speaker 1: Saturday up and outside of Ridgefield in Washington.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so that's the since July third, and what
Speaker 1: is today the seventeenth, that's the third sighting that has
Speaker 1: come to my ears since July third. So but I
Speaker 1: mean that's just having an antenna up, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's like a bright light. The North American Big Percenter
Speaker 1: is a bright light and the moths come. Basically, you know,
Speaker 1: there's finally a place locally that we can hear these
Speaker 1: stories and there's a singular location. Has done a great
Speaker 1: job with their websites and stuff. And it's one thing
Speaker 1: to report citing to a website, But when you can
Speaker 1: go into a place and tell the story to somebody
Speaker 1: and have them you know, ask questions and bounce ideas
Speaker 1: and stuff, that's a different thing altogether.
Speaker 3: So that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: You know, no on your show Mithbound. Obviously you go
Speaker 1: to locations, and I hooked you up with a wonderful witness,
Speaker 1: the young man who I spoke about his sighting. He
Speaker 1: actually has had two sightings now in the same general area.
Speaker 1: I spoke about his sightings on the podcast just a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Yes, I did. Thank you for introducing me to him.
Speaker 3: By the way, he's just we haven't cut the episode
Speaker 3: together yet, but we went out there and met with him.
Speaker 3: It was really late at night, and he's just the
Speaker 3: most lovely kid. And I say kid. I think he's seventeen,
Speaker 3: but that to me, that's a kid. And to me, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: me too. So we met him with his dad. His
Speaker 3: dad came out and he took us. He drove us out,
Speaker 3: we followed him. It was really late, I want to say,
Speaker 3: it was like one am or something to something like that.
Speaker 3: We're driving down this dirt road in deep into the
Speaker 3: woods and we keep going and going. There's no light
Speaker 3: source other than our headlights, and it's just pitch black,
Speaker 3: and we keep going. We're driving for I don't know.
Speaker 3: We had to have been driving for a good twenty
Speaker 3: minutes into the dense woods. We were out there and
Speaker 3: we finally got out and he got out with his
Speaker 3: dad and he's like, he's just so sweet and just
Speaker 3: a sweet, lovely, innocent, very honest kid, and you know,
Speaker 3: slightly shy, but totally happy being on camera. And he
Speaker 3: was showing us the two areas where he experienced two
Speaker 3: different sightings, and one of them was when he had
Speaker 3: been tent camping, I guess with some of of his
Speaker 3: friends and he was inside one of his tents, if
Speaker 3: I'm getting if I'm remembering his story correctly, and one
Speaker 3: of his other friends in a separate tent, stepped out
Speaker 3: of his tent and saw something huge leaned over and
Speaker 3: he was like shaking and rattling the tent and the person,
Speaker 3: the friend that was in the other tent saw it
Speaker 3: from the back, saw this creature from the.
Speaker 1: Back, and it was Yeah, was in a truck. Actually
Speaker 1: he was a truck. He was sleeping in the path
Speaker 1: in the driver's seat of his truck.
Speaker 3: He was saying how scared he was, and he said,
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid to admit that I actually I think
Speaker 3: I started crying because I was really scared, and and
Speaker 3: he was going through that, and then he told he
Speaker 3: showed he took us to another location because he wanted
Speaker 3: to go back out there. This is how brave he
Speaker 3: was after seeing that and being that scared and experiencing that,
Speaker 3: he went back out there. I think he said he
Speaker 3: was alone and he wanted to see it again. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, I cannot believe you were that brave to
Speaker 3: come all the way out here in the middle of
Speaker 3: the woods again after that experience that scared you because
Speaker 3: you wanted to see it again. And he said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, I wanted to. I just wanted to see
Speaker 3: if I could see it again. And he saw it again.
Speaker 3: He's standing there, he heard something behind him and he
Speaker 3: turned around and there had been, you know, a creature
Speaker 3: squatting behind sort of a tree, and it stood up.
Speaker 3: So two sightings by the same person just within I
Speaker 3: don't remember how far apart. It was within a week
Speaker 3: or two apart, and.
Speaker 1: A little bit longer. That's that. First sighting was I
Speaker 1: think March twenty first ish or something like that, and
Speaker 1: the last one was, oh yeah, like three weeks ago,
Speaker 1: four like a month ago. But the distance was only
Speaker 1: a mile a mile and a half between.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, And you know, Interestingly, the road
Speaker 3: that took you down to where they had tent camped somebody.
Speaker 3: We weren't able to pass through because somebody had taken
Speaker 3: I guess a back hoe and they had dug a
Speaker 3: giant trunch going straight across that strip of dirt road
Speaker 3: and built this giant mound of dirt that was impassable
Speaker 3: by a car. Yeah, so we were standing there. He
Speaker 3: was very confused because he said that that hadn't been
Speaker 3: there just even a couple of days before, because he
Speaker 3: had gone back out there and it was impassable. We
Speaker 3: couldn't drive down there with the car. So by now
Speaker 3: it's like two am, and he's wanting to run down,
Speaker 3: like run around that dirt mound on foot and run
Speaker 3: down to the site. And we were like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: this is he's a brave little guy, and we had
Speaker 3: to stop him because he wanted to go down there
Speaker 3: and see, you know, see if the site was still
Speaker 3: there or if somebody had messed it. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but we stopped him because we were like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: we need to stay together. And so we couldn't go
Speaker 3: down and see the actual spot. But we were just
Speaker 3: around the corner from where they had tent camped.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 1: Will be right back after these messages. Now, when you
Speaker 1: go out to film in one of these episodes, I
Speaker 1: know you're talking to witnesses, You're going to the locations.
Speaker 1: Do you do any field work yourself out there? Like
Speaker 1: are you trying to attract sasquatches to you or UFOs
Speaker 1: or a ghost or any of this stuff. Are you
Speaker 1: trying to encounter one for yourself or just investigating the
Speaker 1: stuff that has been done by their people.
Speaker 3: For the most part, I'm just investigating. I would love
Speaker 3: to see something for myself, but I'm just kind of
Speaker 3: going there and talking to people and seeing where it
Speaker 3: is they saw what they saw. I'm actually going to
Speaker 3: be going to Lake Champlain with a woman named Katie Elizabeth,
Speaker 3: who has been researching Champ up there. The Lake Champlain
Speaker 3: lake Monster that is, you know, there's a legendary lake
Speaker 3: monster there similar to Lockness and sort of the foremost
Speaker 3: investigator that's been investigating Champ for about fourteen years. Her
Speaker 3: name's Katie Elizabeth. She's agreed to meet with me. She
Speaker 3: has a boat she's going to take us out on
Speaker 3: sown our equipment and stuff like that, and we're going
Speaker 3: to go out at night and actually you see if
Speaker 3: we can see anything. So that's really going to be
Speaker 3: my first experience doing what you just described and kind
Speaker 3: of doing some field research. As of right now, I've
Speaker 3: mostly just been kind of investigating and talking to people
Speaker 3: and checking things out.
Speaker 1: Well, now, correct me if I'm wrong. I think that
Speaker 1: when you and the crew were at the shop there,
Speaker 1: didn't you say you maybe heard something in Ohio?
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I did, and I did tent camp overnight
Speaker 3: there just to see if I could hear anything. We
Speaker 3: did go out and look around late at night, eleven
Speaker 3: twelve o'clock at night, looking to see what we could see.
Speaker 3: But during the day the prior day before I tent
Speaker 3: camped that night when we went out to this place
Speaker 3: called Headwaters Trail, which is where there were some reports
Speaker 3: there was kind of what they were calling in the
Speaker 3: press a bigfoot flap in Ohio. There was a little
Speaker 3: controversy surrounding it. Some people thought that it was really
Speaker 3: happening and some people didn't because of the sources. But
Speaker 3: we decided to I wanted to go out and check
Speaker 3: it out. Anyway, just just because you never know. And
Speaker 3: we went out to Headwaters Trail in the middle of
Speaker 3: the day where some of the sidings had happened, and
Speaker 3: my cameraman was maybe fifty feet away taking some b
Speaker 3: roll of the Headwaters Trail sign while my director and
Speaker 3: I went and walked out onto the trail, and while
Speaker 3: the we weren't miked at the time, but the cameraman
Speaker 3: was filming the sign with audio running about fifty feet away.
Speaker 3: As soon as Shane and I stepped out onto the trail,
Speaker 3: we then probably I don't know, thirty seconds, there was
Speaker 3: this howl that happened that came right out of the
Speaker 3: thick part of the woods that was right in front
Speaker 3: of us. It sounded incredibly loud, and it sounded like
Speaker 3: it was right there. It really it startled us. I jumped,
Speaker 3: and it's hard to describe this sound, but thankfully the
Speaker 3: caraman fifty feet away captured it on audio. But it's
Speaker 3: not as loud as we heard it standing right in
Speaker 3: front of it, but it's there. And so we played
Speaker 3: it on in the episode several times because you know,
Speaker 3: I wanted to know what viewers thought of that sound.
Speaker 3: To me, it was like a cross between the sound
Speaker 3: of how can I describe it, like sort of a
Speaker 3: cross between the sound of a coyote howl and an
Speaker 3: ambulance siren, but lower and more loud, if that makes
Speaker 3: any sense. It was there's no there were no dogs
Speaker 3: there or coyote. It was in the middle of the day.
Speaker 3: It was definitely not a coyote. It wasn't a siren.
Speaker 3: It was something animal and it just had did that
Speaker 3: one extremely ear piercing howl and then nothing again.
Speaker 1: And it actually you can actually hear the sound in
Speaker 1: the episode though, you can.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I play it several times in the episode. I
Speaker 3: told him to repeat it over and over so people
Speaker 3: could hear it. Yeah, so it's in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is. It could be something,
Speaker 3: it could be nothing, but it was startling. I've never
Speaker 3: heard a sound like that before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's going to you know, of course, as
Speaker 1: far as the quote unquote flat goes or whatever. That's
Speaker 1: just how that thing was marketed. But luckily Ohio is
Speaker 1: such a squatchy state to begin with that like, it's
Speaker 1: not going to disappoint. You can go there and find sasquatches.
Speaker 1: You know, I wouldn't call the last you know month,
Speaker 1: there being a sighting flap here in the National Forest.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a good bigfoot spot and their sasquatches
Speaker 1: around Ohio is one of those places that will not
Speaker 1: disappoint if you go there and poke around in the
Speaker 1: woods for a while and keep your years open.
Speaker 3: So when I tent camped overnight, first of all, it
Speaker 3: was unbelievably cold. I didn't know how cold it was
Speaker 3: going to be, but it was pretty cold.
Speaker 1: And I, by the way, not to interrupt, but in
Speaker 1: the first place, it may be cold, but in the
Speaker 1: first place, you were at a weird vocalization the day
Speaker 1: before and then you have to go out and camp.
Speaker 1: How fun is that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I know, I know, I know, And you know
Speaker 3: I'm no stranger to camping because I'm mountain climb and
Speaker 3: I sort of I'll camp out on in the upper
Speaker 3: parts of mountains overseas for you know, a week or
Speaker 3: two at a time, So I'm no stranger to that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I like it. I dig it. But this was
Speaker 3: different because even though it was cold and I'm used
Speaker 3: to the cold, to tent camping in the cold in
Speaker 3: the mountains, this was just it was a little more.
Speaker 3: It was unsettling. It was it was a cross between
Speaker 3: exciting and scary to be tent camping overnight where supposedly
Speaker 3: all these reports and bigfoots have been seen, and where
Speaker 3: earlier that day we had heard that sound. It was
Speaker 3: you know. Of course I had my crew not far away.
Speaker 3: They weren't right there with me, but they were like
Speaker 3: staying in an airbnb nearby. But yeah, I was a
Speaker 3: little It was scary, but I was also excited too,
Speaker 3: And I couldn't tell if my shivering in the tent
Speaker 3: was because I was colder because I was scared. But
Speaker 3: either way, I made it through the night, and I
Speaker 3: unfortunately didn't hear anything that night. I didn't see anything,
Speaker 3: but you know, it was just one night, so what
Speaker 3: can you expect?
Speaker 1: Oh, how fun? That sounds like a good BOD episode.
Speaker 3: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: So we'd covered a little bit about the Sasquatch thing.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you're going to be doing a Lake Monster episode. Now,
Speaker 1: clearly there's a lot of UFO stuff, UAP stuff going
Speaker 1: around right now, and am I am I correct in
Speaker 1: my research that you claim to have seen a UFO
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 3: Yes, this was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: I got to tell us about that. That's amazing.
Speaker 3: Okay, I will tell you about it then. And this
Speaker 3: is only probably the third time I've even spoken about it,
Speaker 3: and I only went public with this maybe two months ago.
Speaker 3: For the first time. I haven't really talked about it
Speaker 3: at all. Yeah, So, okay, this was in I'm going
Speaker 3: to say it was two thousand and four. My son
Speaker 3: was around eleven or so, and it was night. It
Speaker 3: was late at night at the time. We lived in
Speaker 3: a Gora Hills. I don't know if you know what
Speaker 3: that is. It's sort of north of La I had.
Speaker 3: I was on a forty acre piece of property and
Speaker 3: it was out in the middle of my driveway was
Speaker 3: a mile a winding one mile driveway with a gate
Speaker 3: at the very top. So we never heard any road noise,
Speaker 3: We never heard cars. It was very silent out there.
Speaker 3: So I'm washing dishes at the sink and you know,
Speaker 3: there's like a little bay window there at this sink
Speaker 3: that overlooks the driveway, and I heard this sort of
Speaker 3: a low rumble that in my mind, the first thing
Speaker 3: I thought of was that it sounded kind of like
Speaker 3: a distant motorcycle. And like I said, we didn't hear
Speaker 3: road noise there, so if we heard any kind of
Speaker 3: motorized vehicle, that meant they were on my one mile
Speaker 3: driveway coming to my house. And I wasn't expecting anybody,
Speaker 3: and I hadn't opened the gate for anybody, so I
Speaker 3: was a little confused. So I was like, I sat Ryan.
Speaker 3: I said, Ryan, my son, I said, go out and
Speaker 3: see who's coming up the driveway. So he went out
Speaker 3: there and I continue washing dishes, and then after a
Speaker 3: couple of minutes, I hear mom. So I look up
Speaker 3: from the sink out the window and my son is
Speaker 3: standing on the driveway with his arms at his side
Speaker 3: and his head looking straight up into the sky. And
Speaker 3: I said, Ryan, what's going on? And he said, come
Speaker 3: out here. So I went out. I went right up
Speaker 3: to him, and I looked up to see what he
Speaker 3: was looking at, and there was this object up there.
Speaker 3: And now at this point, Cliff, I'm not a big
Speaker 3: believer in alien life in UFOs at that time. And
Speaker 3: I looked up and we lived in a huge house.
Speaker 3: I had a sixty five hundred square foot house. This
Speaker 3: object was twice easily twice the width of my house
Speaker 3: and it was maybe I'm going to guess, I don't know,
Speaker 3: fifty or one hundred feet above the roof of my house. Low.
Speaker 3: It was low, it was very low, and it was
Speaker 3: moving so slowly. I didn't understand how it was remaining
Speaker 3: airborne because it was going so slow. But it was
Speaker 3: enormous because it was so big, I couldn't see the
Speaker 3: sides of it to tell you what kind of shape
Speaker 3: it was, and it was just dark, and I remember
Speaker 3: just staring at it with my son. We weren't able
Speaker 3: to talk. I didn't feel I'm not going to say
Speaker 3: I felt frozen or something were like under control, but
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was because I was in
Speaker 3: shock or what it was. But we weren't able to speak,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't able to look away from it, and
Speaker 3: it just continued slowly, slowly, moving across the roof of
Speaker 3: the house and out into the distance until it was
Speaker 3: just a light. And then when it got to the
Speaker 3: point where we couldn't see the actual craft anymore, it
Speaker 3: was just a light. That light split into two and
Speaker 3: went in opposite directions very quickly. And then when that happened,
Speaker 3: we were able to look at each other and say,
Speaker 3: did you just see it break into two and my
Speaker 3: son's nodding, and we were just stunned. I didn't know
Speaker 3: what to think.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after these messages. This happened a
Speaker 1: while ago, a number of years ago. How has this
Speaker 1: changed you? Because certainly a weird experience like seeing something
Speaker 1: I had right about your house and then with a
Speaker 1: punctuation mark of it splitting in two and being even
Speaker 1: weirder at the end, that probably has had some sort
Speaker 1: of effect on the way you approach things or think
Speaker 1: about things, or something like that.
Speaker 3: Right, How is that it kind of met and then
Speaker 3: we're There were a couple of other things that happened
Speaker 3: in the couple of weeks after that as well, and
Speaker 3: it just kind of at the time, I tried to
Speaker 3: put it out of my mind, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: because it was messing with my with my religion and
Speaker 3: my religious thoughts, and I didn't I couldn't reconcile things
Speaker 3: in my head what I had seen with what my
Speaker 3: current beliefs were at the time, and so I just
Speaker 3: chose to sort of put it to the side and
Speaker 3: try not to think about it for a long time,
Speaker 3: for years, and you know, when I would tell people
Speaker 3: friends of mine, you know, selectively tell friends of mine
Speaker 3: who believed in you know, UFOs and alien life and
Speaker 3: stuff about it, they wanted to hear more and they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: that was this kind of ship and that kind of ship,
Speaker 3: and you know, you saw a UFO. And I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't think I want to tell anybody anymore because
Speaker 3: I'm not sure where I stand on I know it's
Speaker 3: an outdated to say UFOs, but that's what I still
Speaker 3: call them. It's just you know, where I stood on UFOs.
Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot more open minded in more recent years,
Speaker 3: to the point where I think that I've decided that
Speaker 3: was definitely not something military, and it was something that
Speaker 3: was not human in my mind, But I don't know
Speaker 3: what I still don't, to be honest, I don't know
Speaker 3: what these things are. I don't know if it's you know,
Speaker 3: necessarily something from another planet extraterrestrial, or if it's something
Speaker 3: that's terrestrial but not human, you know, meaning in our
Speaker 3: vast ocean that nobody knows everything that's in the ocean.
Speaker 3: Is it in the ocean, Is it in the earth somewhere.
Speaker 3: Is it a different dimension, Is it something from the future.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Is it demons? I don't know what
Speaker 3: these things are, but I just know that that I
Speaker 3: saw something that, in my opinion, was not made by humans.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, when you start fiddling about in any sort
Speaker 1: of weird subject, whether it's bigfoot or UFOs or any
Speaker 1: of these things, you kind of have to be okay
Speaker 1: with a lack of resolution, right. I think you know,
Speaker 1: if you need if you're the kind of person that
Speaker 1: needs things all tied up in a neat bow at
Speaker 1: the end of everything, these are not the gigs for.
Speaker 3: You, right right right?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but you know the little side paragraph here.
Speaker 1: I happened to watch Disclosure Date this past week for
Speaker 1: the first time. Have you seen that?
Speaker 3: I have not seen it, but I was thinking I
Speaker 3: might like to How is it?
Speaker 1: Oh? You know, I think you would like it. I
Speaker 1: think it's it was a little slow for a lot
Speaker 1: of it, but like it delivers at the end, and
Speaker 1: your description of what you just shared and how it
Speaker 1: has affected what you think in some ways, and just
Speaker 1: the questions that it brought up, and you know, not
Speaker 1: that you've come to new decision. All of that reminded
Speaker 1: me very much of the movie. So you might want
Speaker 1: to go check it out.
Speaker 3: It's definitely when I was check it out, Okay, I
Speaker 3: definitely will. Thanks. Thanks, I will check it out because
Speaker 3: and you're right, I don't have to reconcile things in
Speaker 3: my head. But and it's okay to have questions linger
Speaker 3: because that's what drives my curiosity and I enjoy being
Speaker 3: a curious person. But I'll never forget that. I remember
Speaker 3: it like it happened yesterday. And I was talking to
Speaker 3: my son a couple of months ago about it, and
Speaker 3: he remembers it. He remembers it very vividly. Also, he
Speaker 3: was old enough to you know, he was eleven and
Speaker 3: he's he's older now, but he remembers it very well.
Speaker 3: So it was nice that I experienced it with him
Speaker 3: because if it was just me, you know, it would
Speaker 3: be easy for people to write off as either A
Speaker 3: I'm making it up or B I hallucinated, or you know,
Speaker 3: it was you saw a blimp at night and it
Speaker 3: was you know, you mistook it for an aircraft of
Speaker 3: some kind. But since my son was there and we
Speaker 3: both share the same exact memory, it's kind of nice
Speaker 3: to have that element as part of this memory.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because there would always be something I imagine
Speaker 1: in your mind, like did I hallucinate? Like would I
Speaker 1: blink out for a minute that I you know? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Well have you done UFO episodes of Mythbound I have?
Speaker 3: I have. I went to the Area fifty one area
Speaker 3: outside of Area fifty one. Yeah, we went there. I'd
Speaker 3: never been to that area. There's a whole lot of
Speaker 3: nothing there in Rachel, Nevada, and we experienced some pretty
Speaker 3: unusual stuff there. There was you know, I've heard about
Speaker 3: I think we've all heard about the Camo dudes in
Speaker 3: white pickup trucks, and we encountered those. There was one
Speaker 3: of them that chased us away from the area, and
Speaker 3: that was scary. But I was again with my team,
Speaker 3: which is all men, and I felt, Okay, we met
Speaker 3: this this little guy that works at there's this motel
Speaker 3: there called the Little Aley Inn.
Speaker 1: Oh I've seen pictures yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: So he works there, I think maybe in the cafe
Speaker 3: or something. They have a nice cafe there, and he
Speaker 3: was telling us all kinds of stuff. He's been there
Speaker 3: for years and he's seen a lot of stuff. That
Speaker 3: sounds some of the stories he had sound far fetched.
Speaker 3: But this this guy struck me as a very straight
Speaker 3: shooter that didn't make stuff up. You know, again, I
Speaker 3: could be wrong, but he's seen some unusual stuff. And
Speaker 3: he shared a video that he took of a UFO
Speaker 3: that was coming over the mountains from the Area fifty
Speaker 3: one direction, and he shared the video with us and
Speaker 3: he let me put it on my episode, which was nice. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it was We drove up to the famous back
Speaker 3: gate of Area fifty one and got out and sort
Speaker 3: of stood there and we took some video and some
Speaker 3: photos and that was really cool. Nobody popped out, nobody
Speaker 3: chased us away from that gate, but they were chasing
Speaker 3: us away from this We were trying to locate this
Speaker 3: site where apparently the locals say that that something crashed
Speaker 3: and the military was claiming that it was a military
Speaker 3: drone that had crashed. The locals think it was something
Speaker 3: else that they're covering up. So we're going out to
Speaker 3: try to find that when the the CAMEO dude showed
Speaker 3: up and started chasing us. So, yeah, you're getting a.
Speaker 1: Mischievous aren't you.
Speaker 3: I know, that's pretty cool. I've been having a really
Speaker 3: really amazing time going and checking out all these things
Speaker 3: that I've only ever read about or heard about or
Speaker 3: watched on YouTube and now getting to see them firsthand
Speaker 3: is is quite an amazing experience. And your research, your
Speaker 3: your Bigfoot center, by the way, is way on up there,
Speaker 3: because that was for me one of the highlights of
Speaker 3: all of the episodes I've done. Believe it or not,
Speaker 3: it's really it's really impressed upon me, and I'd like
Speaker 3: to go back.
Speaker 1: Well, as I said, you have an open door policy.
Speaker 1: Whenever you need to be there for.
Speaker 3: You, I'll be there, thank you.
Speaker 1: I've spoken briefly about the Bigfoot thing and the UFO stuff,
Speaker 1: but the other item of that trilogy, I suppose, or
Speaker 1: trinity maybe for lack a better term, our ghosts, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was like the big three paranormal things or whatever,
Speaker 1: if you want to group them into paranormal. And I
Speaker 1: have zero interests and ghosts. I've had a couple ghost experiences.
Speaker 1: I didn't like them. I hope I never have another.
Speaker 1: Are you dabbling and that sort of stuff too? And
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on that thing?
Speaker 3: I have done a few episodes on supposedly haunted places
Speaker 3: I'm probably not going to do anymore, not because it
Speaker 3: was scary or anything, but because I don't know. Cliff,
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not big on haunted stuff and ghost
Speaker 3: type stuff. It's just I think it's not I feel
Speaker 3: in my heart of hearts when I'm standing in these
Speaker 3: places that are supposedly haunted. To me, the sensation I
Speaker 3: get is that what people are experiencing is something demonic,
Speaker 3: and it makes me feel very unsettled. I don't necessarily believe.
Speaker 3: I know that people may not agree with my beliefs
Speaker 3: on this, but I don't necessarily believe that these what
Speaker 3: people are seeing as ghosts are spirits of people who
Speaker 3: once lived. To me, all of it is demonic, and
Speaker 3: so I don't feel comfortable dabbling in that area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel you like I look at I don't
Speaker 1: really watch the show, so I don't really believe TV
Speaker 1: is what it comes down to. But I know some
Speaker 1: of these people who actually go do this sort of
Speaker 1: stuff through conventions and stuff, and I think that they're
Speaker 1: telling me the truth and what they've experienced and seen
Speaker 1: whatever else because I know them personally, and I just
Speaker 1: think to myself, what in the world are you even
Speaker 1: thinking right doing something like this, you know, like an
Speaker 1: ape in the woods, I can wrap my head around,
Speaker 1: and they say the same thing to me. They think
Speaker 1: I'm nuts for looking for giant apes in the woods,
Speaker 1: you know, but like, why would you fiddle with something
Speaker 1: like that? You know that something is completely out of
Speaker 1: the realm of the exact rate.
Speaker 3: Exactly, And I feel like it could open if it is,
Speaker 3: if I'm right, and it's demonic. I feel like you're
Speaker 3: opening yourself up to something very bad, like entering your
Speaker 3: life through being around that type of stuff. So I
Speaker 3: just don't want to. I don't want to play with fire,
Speaker 3: and it makes me feel uncomfortable, so I'd rather go,
Speaker 3: you know, focus on other things. And you know, one
Speaker 3: of them is you know, supposed prehistoric animals that that
Speaker 3: that people believe are still alive today. There's places in
Speaker 3: the Congo where people have supposedly seen a living long
Speaker 3: necked dinosaur living, you know, tribal people and so things
Speaker 3: like that. I don't I don't necessarily, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: going to say I believe that there's a long dinosaur
Speaker 3: living in the Congo, but I'm also going to not
Speaker 3: going to say I don't believe that's true because I
Speaker 3: don't know everything. We don't know everything. The Congo's largely unexplored,
Speaker 3: just like our oceans. People don't know what's down there.
Speaker 3: And you know, I kind of tend to trust tribal
Speaker 3: people that don't watch television and don't you know, read
Speaker 3: newspapers and they don't have computers or phones when when
Speaker 3: they say that they see something, I feel like that's
Speaker 3: probably what they saw or something like it. So I'm
Speaker 3: open to looking at things and going and seeing what
Speaker 3: people say they've seen, and those kinds of things fascinate me.
Speaker 3: Who knows what's true?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd rather dabble in the physical instead of the
Speaker 1: metaphysical or.
Speaker 3: You know, the metaphysical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparitions and all that sort of stuff, and that
Speaker 1: I'll leave that to people who are you know, are
Speaker 1: crazy enough to care.
Speaker 3: From now on, I think that I'm with you on that.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do.
Speaker 1: Any Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
Speaker 1: and Bogo. Will be right back after these messages. Something
Speaker 1: I just picked up on. Of course you've done it
Speaker 1: twice now that I've noticed, and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: And you say supposedly I think that's absolutely fantastic, because skepticism,
Speaker 1: even when you're advocating for like these things probably or
Speaker 1: possibly being there, being there, you're looking into this stuff,
Speaker 1: you're spending money going to investigate this stuff and making
Speaker 1: short films about it, and you're still saying supposedly, which
Speaker 1: I absolutely love, because there's so much BS nowadays. Were
Speaker 1: just drowning in information, you know, and so it's hard
Speaker 1: to tell up from down what's AI and what's not.
Speaker 1: And I love that you were keeping that skepticism about you.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you have you done any paranormal stories that
Speaker 1: you thought might be ridiculous and and and on the
Speaker 1: flip side of that, until you looked into them and thought,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's something here, or if you just
Speaker 1: thought it was ridiculous and therefore you didn't do the
Speaker 1: story on it.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well there's one. There's one I did, and it
Speaker 3: sounds on its face completely ludicrous, and I went in
Speaker 3: with high, high skepticism. It was again in Ohio, and
Speaker 3: it's this legend of in in Loveland, Ohio, of the
Speaker 3: frog Man. Okay, Now, when I thought about this, okay,
Speaker 3: I heard about this, I saw some videos about it,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Okay, this sounds completely ridiculous. You know,
Speaker 3: you know those tabloid mag magazines that you see, you know,
Speaker 3: alien hybrid has been found in you know what are
Speaker 3: on the front page of these tabloids.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I love them. I love them.
Speaker 3: I founded me too. So you know, half crocodile, half
Speaker 3: human baby found in the So I immediately thought of that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, a frog man. But I was like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm trying to keep an open mind. And
Speaker 3: the reason I went ahead and went and met somebody
Speaker 3: up there about it was because I read about it
Speaker 3: and apparently the witnesses were active duty police officers. So
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, well I'm going to go and
Speaker 3: see what's going on here. So I went up and
Speaker 3: I talked to someone up there who's kind of the
Speaker 3: local frogman expert. And again high skepticism on my part. Okay,
Speaker 3: that the sound the name just sounds so silly.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that sentence before, like the local frogman experts.
Speaker 1: Those are the words I've never put in combination.
Speaker 2: Before.
Speaker 3: So I'm talking to him. This is a really level
Speaker 3: headed guy. He's a he's a cartographer, he makes Max.
Speaker 3: He's a really intelligent, you know, well spoken guy, and
Speaker 3: and I'm talking to him. You know, I was expecting
Speaker 3: to meet some you know, kind of kooky guy or something. No,
Speaker 3: this is a very intelligent person. So I'm I'm talking
Speaker 3: to him, and he's We're going to each of the
Speaker 3: three locations where there were three different sightings in the past.
Speaker 3: There were actually four sightings on record, but a lot
Speaker 3: of people when my episode came out, commented that they'd
Speaker 3: seen it, and their sister's seen it, and their husband's
Speaker 3: seeing it and so so. But the documented ones that
Speaker 3: I could find, there were four. I went to the
Speaker 3: three different locations associated with those four sightings and he
Speaker 3: walked me through it, and he's explaining to me that
Speaker 3: two of the sightings were from two separate sidings unrelated,
Speaker 3: were from active duty police officers. One of them saw
Speaker 3: three of these frogmen late at night. He pulled over
Speaker 3: his police cruiser, got out, he drew his weapon and
Speaker 3: fired at them because he didn't he didn't know what
Speaker 3: they were. They looked like a half frog, half man
Speaker 3: walking on two. I mean, it sounds crazy for me
Speaker 3: to even have him out of my mouth, sounds crazy,
Speaker 3: but when I was talking to him and I'm looking
Speaker 3: at these you know, reports that these police one of
Speaker 3: the police officers went into high He never would talk
Speaker 3: about it again. He like went on record saying what
Speaker 3: he saw once and then would never give an interview again.
Speaker 3: He didn't want to talk about it. He refuses to,
Speaker 3: you know, to say anything.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 3: And then there were you know, there was those two
Speaker 3: impressed me because they were they were police officers. Then
Speaker 3: there was a third siding where these two this this
Speaker 3: young couple was playing Pokemon Go out by some lake,
Speaker 3: a local lake that feeds the stream where or the
Speaker 3: sort of the river where these two different police officers
Speaker 3: had seen what they described. One of them even but
Speaker 3: I think they both drew them. They sketched them what
Speaker 3: they saw, and I went to the exact spot where
Speaker 3: these frog men were seen standing. So the young couple
Speaker 3: that were playing Pokemon Go, they took a short video
Speaker 3: and photo of this thing in the water. It's obviously
Speaker 3: it's very blurry, it's not extremely clear. It was it
Speaker 3: was at night, so it's kind of pixelated and it's
Speaker 3: easy to discount. But when you combine it with the
Speaker 3: two police officers, I was like you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to say I believe that there's a frogman, but
Speaker 3: it was worth looking into because I don't know. Something's
Speaker 3: there's something about having two police officers go on records
Speaker 3: saying that they saw this frog man and one of
Speaker 3: them shot at it and stuff. That is it's intriguing
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be It sounds weird to say,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't. Maybe it doesn't have to be real
Speaker 1: to be fascinating, you know, because it is real. It
Speaker 1: is a fact that these two police officers say they
Speaker 1: saw that, and that in itself is very odd. And
Speaker 1: then of course he's these other witnesses that you mentioned
Speaker 1: playing Pokemon Go and whatnot, kind of supporting those other
Speaker 1: claims by the police officers, and that enough is an
Speaker 1: interesting mystery to look into.
Speaker 3: But interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you aware of the claims of people seeing
Speaker 1: lizard people?
Speaker 3: I think I have heard of something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Our good friend Lyle Blackburn, who's a very solid
Speaker 1: bigfoot researcher. He's also an amazing author and he has
Speaker 1: a podcast of his own. He has written an entire
Speaker 1: book on the lizard man sort of phenomenon, and he
Speaker 1: sit straight from his mouth. I don't know if they're
Speaker 1: real or not, but it is real that people say
Speaker 1: they see these things, and so I thought it'd be
Speaker 1: a great book topic. So he did research and dug
Speaker 1: into it. It might be worth your time checking that out.
Speaker 3: Is there a certain area where this is supposed to
Speaker 3: be taking place.
Speaker 1: I didn't read the book because I don't believe the
Speaker 1: reel or anything like that, but I think it's the South, right,
Speaker 1: mostly the South.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the book was focused on primarily a series of
Speaker 2: cases in central South Carolina, in the sort of midlands area.
Speaker 2: And I have to say with the Loveland Frogman, there's
Speaker 2: an amazing artist named Easton Hawk, and he's at a
Speaker 2: lot of the events that we do. He's always a
Speaker 2: crypto con and he sells this amazing Loveland Frogman poster
Speaker 2: that he drew.
Speaker 1: I have a copy of it.
Speaker 2: My buddy Scott got it for me, and I've gotten
Speaker 2: a few other pieces from Easton. But it's one of
Speaker 2: the coolest pieces of like cryptid art out there. So
Speaker 2: I'll put a link in the show notes. People will
Speaker 2: we love it, Emily and I have it in a
Speaker 2: frame on the wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, who knows there's a lot that we
Speaker 3: don't know in the world, and some of it sounds,
Speaker 3: you know, a little are fetched, but who knows. Who knows?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know everything, and I don't
Speaker 3: claim to know everything. Maybe it's real. I really don't know.
Speaker 3: I know that one of the police officers, going back
Speaker 3: to the frogman, the one that said he shot it
Speaker 3: and that it got away, that I guess he didn't
Speaker 3: kill it or whatever, later changed his story because he
Speaker 3: started being made fun of quite a bit by the
Speaker 3: local community, and then he said, okay, well I actually
Speaker 3: killed it. I shot it. When I shot it, I
Speaker 3: killed it, and I put it in my truck. Turns
Speaker 3: out it was it was just an iguana that was
Speaker 3: missing its tail. So, I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 3: you can mistake a frogman that you draw as a
Speaker 3: half frog half man into suddenly now it's just an
Speaker 3: iguana that was missing its tail. I don't know. So
Speaker 3: that was just all weird. It was weird but interesting.
Speaker 1: Well it's totally fun, no matter what.
Speaker 3: Very fun.
Speaker 1: That sounds like it'd be a very fun episode of
Speaker 1: Mythbound there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was good.
Speaker 1: So speaking of Mythbound, I mean, do you have any
Speaker 1: like wish lists like like, oh, we got you already
Speaker 1: mentioned you want to go overseas and look for some stuff,
Speaker 1: like what are some of the mysteries that you would
Speaker 1: love to really delve deep into? As far as Mythbound goes,
Speaker 1: I'd really love.
Speaker 3: To go explore and investigate the honesty. That's what's high
Speaker 3: on my list. I don't know why. I've just always
Speaker 3: been very fascinated by that. I'd like to go, you know,
Speaker 3: in Papua New Guinea. I don't even know if I'm
Speaker 3: pronouncing that correctly. There are local tribal people who claim
Speaker 3: to see some sort of giant winged creature there that
Speaker 3: I'd love to They've been saying it for for decades,
Speaker 3: and I'd love to go down and just talk to
Speaker 3: some of them. I'd love to go to Lockness. I'd
Speaker 3: love to go to the Pyramids and explore, you know,
Speaker 3: some mystery surrounding the Great Pyramids. Those are all really
Speaker 3: high on my list.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like Mythbound is being successful. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're creating more followers every single day, and I know
Speaker 1: that a lot of our like I said, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of our listenership would really enjoy watching this
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So hopefully it'll have continued success over
Speaker 1: the years and will enable you to go check out
Speaker 1: some of these wish lists weird things, you.
Speaker 3: Know what I mean. Thank you, thank you for a
Speaker 3: great time. I'm really enjoying it. And yeah, it's growing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's only been up for maybe four months
Speaker 3: and it's doing really well. I'm very happy with it
Speaker 3: and whether it does well or not, which it is
Speaker 3: doing well, but I'm just having the best time of
Speaker 3: being able to go and talk to people and kind
Speaker 3: of investigate some of these things that have always intrigued me.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. And of course science will catch up
Speaker 1: to some of these and some of them probably never.
Speaker 1: I think some of the stuff might be unprovable at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, which is also an interesting
Speaker 1: perspective to take, that something is out there that is
Speaker 1: real in a way, but we'll never know how.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, it is. Okay, it's okay. You don't have
Speaker 3: to prove everything. I think that's you know, that's kind
Speaker 3: of part of the fun of it.
Speaker 1: All too fantastic. Okay, So anything else you want to
Speaker 1: mention before we part ways here, Donna.
Speaker 3: I don't think so I think that's good. I think
Speaker 3: I'm really happy that I was able to come on
Speaker 3: here because it's just your a wealth of information, and
Speaker 3: I love how open minded you are about about, you know,
Speaker 3: all topics. I'm the same way, and this has just
Speaker 3: been great and I really am grateful to you for
Speaker 3: having me on your show.
Speaker 1: Now you hear that, listener, she called me open minded
Speaker 1: about all topics. That's not something I'm accused of very often.
Speaker 1: Very good. Well, Donna, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1: And I really did enjoy the podcast today and also
Speaker 1: enjoyed having you in the museum and showing you around.
Speaker 1: And again, I was impressed on the knowledge that you
Speaker 1: had about my favorite subject, Bigfoot in general, and I
Speaker 1: am happy to help you with whatever episodes you might
Speaker 1: need my services for in the future. So you slept me.
Speaker 3: I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: That's about it, folks, Bobo is not here, So hey, Donna,
Speaker 1: do me a favor. Could you tell our listeners to
Speaker 1: keep it squatchy?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thanks guys, and keep it squatchy.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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