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Speaker 1: Hi, this is David Rowntree and you're listening to Unknown

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Origins Radio.

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Speaker 2: We live in a world filled with unknown.

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Speaker 3: You can't handle the truth? Him as hell, I'm not anymore.

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We will not go quietly into the nights. We will

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not vanish.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Unfound or to the radio, and good evening everybody.

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Welcome to another edition of Unknown Origins Radio here on

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the Dark Matter Radio Network. I'm your host, Mark Johnson,

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and I'm really pleased and thrilled to be able to

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welcome back our co host, mister Bruce Pearson. Hi you tonight, Bruce.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of like a guest appearance anymore, isn't it.

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I think I think our guest tonight is been on

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more than I have recently. So yeah, it's good to

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be back. Well, good, good, good.

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Speaker 5: What have you been up to lately?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Man, I've been doing a lot of traveling. I

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was down in Washington to the conference down there three

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days last week. The week before I was the Myrtle Beach.

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So keep him busy trying to pay the bills, you

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know how that goes?

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Speaker 5: Oh very much, so very much.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 5: Well, we've been doing pretty good.

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Speaker 4: You missed a couple of great shows, you know, hopefully

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if we get some of those guests back on in

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the future. Last week we talked with author Ken Cherry

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about his brand new book, The Mark Slade Investigates the

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Stephenville UFO, and that is of course being published by

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our company, Gleannette Tie and that just hit the online yesterday,

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so it's now for sale and anyone who's interested in

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copies you can get them on Amazon dot com or

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on our website at glanetttig dot com and we're currently

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working on getting them into a bookstore near you, So

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definitely check it out. It's a great read, and listen

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to our show from last week. It's in our archives,

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which you can listen to our archives anytime on Planet Paranormal,

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on iTunes, on podbeam, so we're posting it everywhere, so

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definitely take take a listen to all of our archives

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shows while we're at it. And uh, it's been a

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it's been an interesting uh interesting week, uh these last

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few weeks, and we haven't.

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Speaker 5: Got a chance to really talk about it.

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Speaker 4: Uh, you know, before we get into introducing our guests tonight,

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just wanted to bring this up. The have you kept

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up with or have you heard much about the the

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whole thing going on with these roswell slides.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Unfortunately, Uh, the turmoil continues. And and really, you know,

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I as as Chris and I the last time we

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were together discussed I mean, uh, certainly, I guess all

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of us in this community have some connections with everybody

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else that are researchers and investigators and so on. But

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I mean, I actually he had worked last March and

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with Heimie on a documentary that he is producing on

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the extinction of the monarch. Butterfly had absolutely nothing to

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do with UFOs are paranormal, So I know Heymie quite well.

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I've known Linda Howe for thirty some years, I guess

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back in the old New Mexico days when I lived

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out there, and you know, Richard Dolan was there, and

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of course he's a good friend. So yeah, it didn't

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go down really very well. And you know, I hope

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that nobody takes a beating too bad for it. I

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personally don't think any of these folks, knowing their integrity

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and their backgrounds, were doing anything overtly to try to

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go around the facts. But unfortunately, it's a very unforgiving world,

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and it was not a happy scene. And I don't

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know that the final chapter has been written on that,

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but we'll talk to Christopher about that tonight if he's

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interested in weighing in on it. And it's a shame

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because you know, the whole community takes a it takes

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a shot and a jaw on at right across the forehead.

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So it's not a good it's not a good thing. No,

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it's not.

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Speaker 4: And and again, yeah, that's something I'd like to definitely

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get Christopher's thoughts on later when we get him on

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because for some the people of this caliber, these researchers,

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I mean, it's not fly by night researchers. These are

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people who have been seriously investigating this for years and

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to not be able or to be fooled by these

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pictures and I know that, uh, and I we'll talk

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a little bit more about it later. I was actually

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listening to Whitley Streeber and he had on he had

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on both Heimi and Linda Moulton Howe on his show

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last week discussing this, and they were claiming that the

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plaques and things that they're coming up with are not

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what they seem and so it's there's still the controversy

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still continues, so definitely looking forward to discussing that further.

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So why don't we since we started talking about that,

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let's get right into it. Let's introduce our guests for tonight.

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We're really thrilled to have this gentleman back on our show.

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He is the author of a trilogy of books that

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focus on the San Luis Valley area of Colorado, New Mexico.

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His latest book, Stalking the Herd, which just came out

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of this time last year, and of course there's Enter

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the Valley and Secrets of the Mysterious Valley. And he's

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also the host of his own radio show. And we

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want to welcome Christopher O'Brien to the program.

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Speaker 1: How are you tonight, Chris, Hey, guys, Chris, welcome back.

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And just let me say on the onset not to

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you know, I don't want to make you too good.

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You feel too good, you'll fall asleep on us. But

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having said that, you know you are a very serious,

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very methodical researcher. I thought you did an incredible job

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on Stalking the Herd, the last one I read when

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we were together back in I guess in April or

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March down in Hamilton. What a great presentation. And you know,

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really having started back in seventy six, seventy seven in

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New Mexico and covering a couple of those mutilations, you

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definitely gave me a very very interesting and I think

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a very credible perspective on what might be going on.

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And then I have to tell you, man, that's a

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major one eighty for me in Bravo. Well done.

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Speaker 6: You know, yeah, well, dot of work, man, Twenty years

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of research went into that eighteen months of writing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think anybody can even comprehend on the

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surface the amount of time and devotion it takes to

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put that long into researching something. And I think you

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did an incredible job.

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Speaker 7: And it's tough. It's a tough book to talk about

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a cocktail parties.

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Speaker 1: It is, And you know what the preconceived notion of UH,

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and certainly some of our colleagues have have gone off

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in a different direction, and quite honestly, I had not

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been exposed to although we all agree that that could

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have been one of the possible scenarios and one of

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the you know, the culprits could have UH lived very terrestrially,

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if you will. You made a very sound case, and

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I think your your hypothesis could hold up in court

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any day of the week. So good for you, man.

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Speaker 7: Well, thank you.

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Speaker 6: I appreciate that I tried not to h to come

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down on too strongly on any particular side of the equation,

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you know, until i'd really had a chance to, you know,

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through all the data against the wall and and really

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ponder some some people's opinions that I really respect and appreciate.

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Speaker 7: Of course, men.

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Speaker 6: Uh in the preamble, Linda Moulton Howe, the fairly recently

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departed Tom Adams, David Perkins. Uh, There's there's quite a

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number of individuals, law enforcement officials, scientists, you know, people

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who who I've really looked up to for years that

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that I think really deserve to have their uh, their perspective,

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their you know, years of experience, and their their insights, uh,

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you know, should be should be brought into the discussion.

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I I don't really feel that I'm in a position

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to to cast judgment on this whole thing and come

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up with a single, one size fits all answer, you know,

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the whole you know, the un unsolved livestock death phenomenon

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for lack of you know, a better UH definition or

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a term uh is is very complicated in and I

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just felt that somebody needed to get all the data

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as as closely as we can, UH in in complete

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a fashion as we can, all down in one place.

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And then I've really been working on, you know, crunching

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the numbers, looking at at trends, looking at patterns, and

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seeing how all this thing really, you know, plays out.

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I haven't come you know, like I said to a

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I haven't come up with a single, one size fits

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all answer to this. I don't think there really is one,

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to be honest. But you know those who say that's

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all aliens coming here gathering genetic material, you know, I

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feel I've laid out a case that they would suggest

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that there's there's other avenues that we should be looking

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at before we jump off planets.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's a very important point though, that

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there are a number of high strangeness related cases that

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do not fall into a terrestrial explanation. So I think

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there's room for everybody at this table. Yeah, a bizarre Well,

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the thing that amazes me is that and we can

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say this time and time again, Mark and I have

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marveled at this fact. But it's the nature of the industry,

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if you will, and that is that this is such

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a long term and prolific type of event and mainstream

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media just doesn't even give it a thought. You couldn't

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find one person out of a thousand in the general

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public that has any knowledge of this. And it's such

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a prolific crime that from a law enforcement standpoint, people

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should be up in arms about it. And to me,

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that's that's one of the most amazing aspects of this.

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We are selectively interested in things that are just so

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out bizarre and astounding, and yet nobody seems to bother

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about it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Kim Kardassian's but has exactly a lot more to

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to to attract the average you know, member of the

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American pubic because I like to call them. This could

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actually in many ways, I really think this is this

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could be the world's great just unsolved serial crime spread

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and it gets no ink, no press, no mention.

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Speaker 8: Uh.

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Speaker 6: You know, we've had cases recently that have been investigated

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that absolutely you know, gain no you know, outside of

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their local region, gain no notoriety.

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Speaker 7: People just go to McDonald's, have.

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Speaker 6: Their big Max, They go to you know, have their

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their whoppers and their uh you know, they're they're fast

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food hamburgers. It's a closet subject. People just don't want

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to want to even think about how you know, that

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beef is raised and and you know, is is slaughtered

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and rendered and put into patties and end up on

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you know, you know, in their supermarket on styrofoam wrapped

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in plastic. That's all they want to know, you know,

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don't tell me anything else. You know, it's just I

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don't care about the antibiotics in there. I don't care

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about the growth homeworns. I don't care about mad Got disease.

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All these things out of sight.

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Speaker 7: Out of mind.

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Speaker 6: It's a six thousand pound gorilla that's sitting in everybody's kitchen.

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And you know, I just felt that somebody had to

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come step up, get all the data as best as

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they could objectively and as dispassionately as possible, get all

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the data presented in one place. And you know, it's

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just one of those unsung, those unsung tasks that you know,

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occasionally somebody steps up and you know, and tries to

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tackle that that big old, you know, blind spot in

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our pantry. Which is unfortunate, but you know that it

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hasn't been done up until now, and I don't I

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don't think it would have been done unless I stepped

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up to do it. So that was my public service,

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and that was my public service announcement.

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Speaker 7: And there you go.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, a lot of it I want to

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say is that you know, people are distracted by the

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wrong things. But it seems to be if you look

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at society's conditioning of people. The media won't take it seriously,

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and they'd rather show you pictures of Kim Kardashian's but

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you know which, there's not a TV that can hold

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that butt anyway. They wanted to distract you with the toys,

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the flashy and they tell you don't worry, everything's fine.

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And if we talk about, oh yeah, there's a mysterious

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cattle mutilation, you know, the snicker factor comes in. They

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play X files music and they do everything to diminish

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the fact that there is this very mysterious crime wave

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going on with these cattle mutilations, and nobody will take

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it seriously because as a public we're taught not to

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take it seriously. It's something fringe, it's freaky or it

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doesn't fit into somebody's religious or psychological paradigm, so they're

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taught to ignore it. And that's why it always stays

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in the shadows and nobody takes it seriously.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, And you know it's it's like many things

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in culture where where as you pointed out insightfully, I

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think we're programmed, you know, by the media. We're programmed

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by corporations who have tremendous power in our culture to

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to to be fixated on things that that that don't

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that don't rock the boat. You know when you talk

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about you know, genetically modified organisms and and and the

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way we process meat in this country, how how this

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meat is is you know, adulterated with all kinds of

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you know, steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones, things of this nature.

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You know, the corporations, you know, this is the largest

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income producing sector of agriculture, and the f d A

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is populated by uh, you know, vice presidents of large

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you know agro concerns, uh, you know, ex corporate managers

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and and and higher ups that wheel tremendous influence within

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the regulatory agencies, within the the LA. Uh you know,

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the passing laws that protect the the food chain and

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protect the sanctity of food. These are things that the

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average person really until you know, e Coli breaks out

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in the spinach. You know, they never tell you where

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the ecali comes from. But equal I, let's say, breaks

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out in spinach, and they say, look at look at

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your you know, spinach. If it's a lot number, blah

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blah blah blahlah blah blah, don't eat it, and this

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sort of thing. That's the only time you even get

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close to having to think about these types of issues.

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And you know, for the most part, I think our

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country does a good job in in in you know,

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hiding the truth from the consumer, from the end used consumer.

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You know, corporate profits are are always held you know,

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shall we say they're they're deified compared to public health

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issues at times, and unfortunately, we we are descending into

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a you know, I don't want to get political here,

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but I mean it's pretty obvious to me anybody that's

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on the ball that uh, this country is descending into

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a corporate pocracy or a plutocracy that is that is,

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you know, totally managed and coddled and full mutilated.

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Speaker 7: And spindled by the corporations.

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Speaker 6: You know, so you know, all we have to do

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is either complain and do something about it or just

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you know, just shut up and you know, got what

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we deserve. So you know, that's basically what it boils

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down to. If you think there's a problem there, then

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then do something.

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Speaker 1: Let me jump in on that, Chris, because I think

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that's that's a very good point, and I think that

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there is some light at the end of this tunnel,

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as Mark and I have discussed many times, and I

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think you've been in this research long enough to know

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that there has been. Thanks with all its problems and

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foibles and with all the phony nonsense that's on there,

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the Internet has been the saving grace as a journalist

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because we wouldn't be having this show today if we

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were constrained to terrestrial broadcasts. Absolutely I started and this has.

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Speaker 6: Been the godsend to alternative news sources. I get almost

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exclusively all my information from from news sources that ten

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years ago, fifteen years ago we did not have access to.

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Speaker 7: And and God God help us if.

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Speaker 6: We had to rely on the six corporations that have

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totally you know, outside of the Internet, have totally you know,

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you know, totally taken over all the media outlets in

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this country.

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Speaker 7: It's it's it's really man, the Internet has been a godsend.

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Speaker 1: A little background, I H this is a topic that

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that's very near and dear to me only because I

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you know, I producer and directed a very in depth

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documentary back when I was in the Southwest on the

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beef packing industry from the you know, from the from

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the field to the table and to see at that

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time even what was going on. And you know, we

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went everywhere from the the slaughterhouses to Swiss Premium and

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Oscar Meyer and uh, you know Iowa Beef Processors, who

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was the biggest in the nation at that time. But

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to understand the industry, the mechanism of food processing for

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the beef industry until it gets to your table, and

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what goes into it. And then also you know, my

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work with the Coast Guard investing in checking on fishing

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vessels and to see the abhorrent lack of standards in

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that industry of you know, we're worrying about whether stuff's

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refrigerating the beef industry and you've got fish laying on

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the deck of the boat theoretically in ice with flies

319
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all over them and they're sliding them across the deck

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to you know, I mean, it's amazing. Go to the

321
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Fulton Street fish market in New York sometime watch these

322
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guys slide in tune and stuff across the floor and

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throwing them around. It's a wonder nobody gets sick every day.

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The point also is, and I just don't want to

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bring this into perspective because our listeners, you know, Mark

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and I try to touch a wide variety of topics here,

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and certainly this is going to when we get into

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your story and depth. You know, the background has some

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unexplained and paranormal perhaps aspects of it in some regard.

330
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But this is serious stuff for everybody out there listening,

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who we whether you're interested in this particular topic or not.

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And I was in the supermarket today, and there are

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positive effects by the work you do and the work

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people that research like you do. And I'll tell you

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why I was. I was walking through the supermarket and

336
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I'm amazed at how many products now say no GMO

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components whatsoever, from butter to peanut butter and so on.

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Speaker 7: So they just Taco Bell and and who was it?

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Speaker 6: We get the other fast food company have just now

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declared they're going to go all natural with their ingredients.

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We already have Carls Junior has come out with the

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first all natural hamburger from a fast food organization, and

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it's Taco Bell and somebody else.

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Speaker 7: One of the Biggies.

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Speaker 6: Another one of the Biggies have declared they are going

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to go all natural as well. So I think there

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is and to amplify what you were saying, I think

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think there is a ground swell of indignation that that

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we're seeing from the from the consumer side of this equation,

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I think people are more interested in what goes into

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their bodies. I think processed food in general is becoming

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a losing part of market share, and I think market

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share of of of you know, thoughtfully grown, thoughtfully processed,

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and thoughtfully uh packaged food, I think is going to

355
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become a larger and larger segment of the market and

356
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the prices are gonna come down. So you're right, I

357
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think we're seeing a ground swell finally of people that

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they aren't going to be you know, they're they're mad

359
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as hell, they're not gonna take it anymore. Just like

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you had in your your end up on the beginning

361
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to show you know, the uh, you know, the wonderful

362
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uh thing what's his name, Peter, uh, what's his name?

363
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From network?

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Speaker 7: I love that well.

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Speaker 1: I think that I think we should take heart in that,

366
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because you know, it's nice to see some positive outcomes

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of the work and certainly the number of years that

368
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you put into this. But it's it's really dependent on

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the number of people who are not mesmerized by their

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local sporting event or you know, if they're driving the

371
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biggest suv down the road and are completely distracted from

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the real world around them by the toys and gadgets

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that we're all enticed with. But that remains to be seen.

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But I think that it's it's good and important to

375
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point out the success stories and and you know what,

376
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maybe the pendulum swinging the other way on GMOs and

377
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certainly processed foods don't get a very good recommendation from

378
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anybody anywhere anymore, and maybe we're finally starting to learn

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that what we put in our bodies will come back

380
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to haness. So yeah, anyway, let's tell the kids.

381
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Speaker 7: The kids aren't done.

382
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Speaker 1: The kids aren't no, and that's a good thing, let's hope.

383
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So because you know what they've got, They've got an

384
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uphill battle. I think they clean up the mess we're

385
00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:57,519
leaving them. But yeah, now let's get into your story,

386
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because this is it'll take long, more more than two hours,

387
00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:03,279
a lot longer than two hours for you to tell

388
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,640
everything you have to say about this this bizarre crime

389
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,119
crime free in our country. So Mark, if you don't

390
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,000
have anything to add, let's let's let Chris take it

391
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away from the beginning.

392
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,079
Speaker 6: Go for it, Chris, Yeah, it is. It is kind

393
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:23,880
of a it's a long, strange trip that I've been on,

394
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,200
which you know, really, to be honest, started when I

395
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was ten years old. I you know, was in a

396
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safe way doing a Saturday morning shopping with my mom

397
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in the fall of sixty seven as a ten year old,

398
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and you know, there was a national inquiry with this

399
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,559
picture of these like people looking at you know, at

400
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:45,599
this horribly uh you know, disfigured horse lining on the ground,

401
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,880
and the lady was pointing at it, and the headline

402
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,440
said flying saucers killed my horse. And I thought, oh

403
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,160
my god, I gotta get this, you know, I got

404
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,839
to read this, and uh, I forget how much it

405
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,200
was at the time, at dead dime, you know, fifteen

406
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,160
cents or something. I'd bugged my mom to give me

407
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,240
some money so I could buy it, and I grabbed

408
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,160
it and I devoured it. I'd read the whole thing

409
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,400
before I got home. And two things happened that I

410
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,720
think it was the end of October beginning of November

411
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,359
sixty seven.

412
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 7: Two things happened.

413
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 6: First, I learned about the Snippy the horse case, which

414
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,319
was the first publicized, you know, international news story of

415
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,000
an unexplained livestock death. Even though it's considered the first

416
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:26,799
cattle mulation, it was a horse. And the second thing

417
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,160
that I discovered was the San Luis Valley, which is

418
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:34,680
a wonderful, scenic, just gorgeous place that not many people

419
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:38,480
know about. It's in south central Colorado. It extends down

420
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:41,200
the tip of the valley goes down to Taos, New Mexico,

421
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,480
and it's completely surrounded by just unbelievably gorgeous, you know,

422
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:50,279
up to fourteen thousand foot mountains, completely self contained, like

423
00:23:50,319 --> 00:23:55,640
a giant sociological petradition. And that's where I first discovered

424
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,319
that the valley was there when I was a ten

425
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,359
year old, and I remember thinking to myself, man, if

426
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,119
I'm ever in Colorado, I want to go to this

427
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,640
place where flying saucers came down and killed that horse.

428
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,160
So you know, I thought, you know, maybe I'll hear

429
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,160
more about this, And of course I didn't for another

430
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,160
these almost, you know, fifteen twenty years, and I just

431
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,160
so happens, I ended up I ended up moving there.

432
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,880
Just actually coincidentally, I moved out from after spending many

433
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,599
years back East. I went to college in New York City,

434
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,319
and you know, I spent twelve years in New York

435
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,000
and a couple of years in Boston. I was a

436
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:38,359
professional musician and was you know, had a corporate life,

437
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,720
and you know, it was not really had nothing really

438
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:44,839
to do publicly with anything having to do with the

439
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,279
paranormal or UFOs. These were you know, subjects that were

440
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,319
social suicide. You never talked about these things, you know,

441
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,599
in polite company cocktail parties. Of course, my close friends

442
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,960
knew I had an interest in this stuff. I'm an experiencer.

443
00:25:01,599 --> 00:25:01,759
Speaker 5: You know.

444
00:25:01,799 --> 00:25:05,279
Speaker 6: I had a strange, uh you know, very bizarre encounter

445
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,400
when I was very very young, at seven that stuck

446
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,880
with me, you know, all my life, A very very

447
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,039
pivotal event, and you know, these these subjects always interested

448
00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:15,720
me and I was you know what, I guess what

449
00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:17,279
you would call a closet buff.

450
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 7: You know, I read a lot of the books.

451
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 6: I was a big fan of Jacques Filet and John

452
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,440
Keel and Ivan Sanderson, and you know, I read the

453
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,079
early books by Donald Keo and Damski, and you know,

454
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,279
I was I was fairly well versed in the subject.

455
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:35,480
Was very interested in the Hudson Valley siding wave of

456
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:38,880
the eighties. I remember going out several times and you know,

457
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,480
waiting for the big triangles to show up in onto

458
00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:44,279
Meyer Park on the Hudson River with some friends. And

459
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,359
I did a lot of psychedelics, uh in high school

460
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,559
and in college, which I I feel still to this day,

461
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:55,440
were absolutely instrumental in in my thinking, uh, how I

462
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,240
view my reality. I've always had a sense that that

463
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,400
that our reality is just a thin slice of what

464
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,240
is actually fully there, that we're only experiencing, you know,

465
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:10,200
a small portion of a wonderful omniverse that I think

466
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,480
we all, you know, we all co inhabit, but are

467
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:14,160
not aware of.

468
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:14,599
Speaker 7: A lot of it.

469
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 6: And when I moved back out west, of course, you know,

470
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:21,799
moving to the San Luis Valley. It was like, you know,

471
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,839
what am I doing here? I was sixty miles from

472
00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:27,559
the nearest stoplight. There were very few jobs. I was

473
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:30,640
one of the third or fourth porest county in the

474
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,559
United States at the time, and nineteen eighty nine when

475
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:36,319
I moved there, and you know, I didn't think I'd

476
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,920
be there long. I ended up staying there for thirteen

477
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000
years and I investigated thousands of reports, you know, I wrote.

478
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,799
Started out pretty innocently writing articles for my little small

479
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:52,160
town newspaper back you know, pre Internet. They were picked

480
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,759
up by the wire services and spread around the world

481
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:58,400
and I, for some reason, I gained all this notoriety.

482
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 7: Lou Farrish.

483
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 6: Of course, the uh UFO news Clipping Service was a big,

484
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,359
you know, supporter of my investigative work, and a lot

485
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,759
of people became aware that I was there, and I

486
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,039
was contacted by many of the people in the field

487
00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:15,839
that I call friends today who are around back then,

488
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,759
and it just blossomed into this kind of, uh you know,

489
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,079
two headed hydra of a hobby and a and a

490
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:27,000
profession at the same time. If you can, if you

491
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,759
can call anything you do in this field of profession, uh,

492
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,720
you know, I don't. Uh, I don't trust anybody that

493
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:36,279
pays their bills. Uh, you know, in the paranormal.

494
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 7: I think that.

495
00:27:39,559 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 6: You always have to be careful if somebody you know

496
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:45,119
is paying their bills in this in this way, because

497
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:49,519
they are too attached to their own conclusions. They they

498
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:55,960
they tend to become calcified in their in their opinions,

499
00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:02,359
in their in their conclusions. I'm constantly pointing out at

500
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,640
the emperors on parade who are marching along with no

501
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:06,200
clothes on.

502
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,079
Speaker 5: Uh.

503
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,559
Speaker 6: In this field, I really have a sense that that

504
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:14,680
the people that are really the ones that that that

505
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,240
I I prefer following their work are ones that do

506
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:21,200
this as a as a as a passion, as a hobby,

507
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,240
as opposed to a way to pay their bills. And

508
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,920
and that's just me. I may be wrong in saying that,

509
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,640
but but this is something that I've not relied on

510
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,839
as a career. I've done a tremendous amount of work

511
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,000
in this field. They've written six books almost seven now,

512
00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,039
and and uh, you know, I've been on all the

513
00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:43,440
TV shows and written tons of articles and all this.

514
00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 7: But I don't rely on this.

515
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:49,319
Speaker 6: I It's not something that that you know, I could

516
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,880
drop it today and have have a very successful life

517
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,000
as it is. So you know, this, this whole thing

518
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,079
has been more of a passion for me. It's been

519
00:28:58,279 --> 00:28:59,920
kind of like like I said earlier, it's more of

520
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,599
a public service really. You know, I feel that I've

521
00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:07,759
been blessed with with being exposed to wonderful uh minds,

522
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,680
people that have put in the years, have you know,

523
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,119
the experience and the gravitas that that that inspire me

524
00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:19,279
to to you know, to pull my game up, you know,

525
00:29:19,599 --> 00:29:24,599
higher and higher, and and I really bend over backwards,

526
00:29:24,599 --> 00:29:27,440
to be as objective as I possibly can, to not

527
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,720
throw anything in fact, do anything in throw anything out,

528
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:33,599
and to be as honest about my work as possible.

529
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 7: And and if.

530
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:37,519
Speaker 6: People disagree with me, I say, well let me see

531
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,720
your data. You go ahead, you convince me that I'm wrong,

532
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:45,480
and you're right, you know, and uh you know, I'm

533
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:47,960
with my show, you know, the para cast. You know,

534
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,799
we try to get on on guests, ask them tough questions.

535
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:51,559
Speaker 1: You know.

536
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,759
Speaker 6: Our motto is, let's separate the signal from the noise.

537
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:57,240
If you have an extraordinary claim, let me see at

538
00:29:57,319 --> 00:30:00,240
least some data to back it up. You know, and

539
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,960
I just, you know, I want to be as best

540
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,240
as I can an example for young people coming up

541
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,839
in this field on how to properly investigate, research and

542
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,440
analyze their work and come up with objective, informed opinions

543
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,079
about things.

544
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,759
Speaker 4: Well, I you mentioned one thing just a minute ago,

545
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:26,720
and I agree wholeheartedly about the people who are researching

546
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:29,039
these days. There's so many of them who seem to

547
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:35,119
be stuck like a broken record. They're stuck repeating the same,

548
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,319
the same thing over and over and not really advancing

549
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,160
their thinking. And too many people in this field fall

550
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,119
into that trap of, you know, just regurgitating what they've

551
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,039
learned from somebody else and not really looking harder and

552
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,079
asking questions, you know, from the being coming from the

553
00:30:55,119 --> 00:31:00,000
paranormal research community. Myself, I get a little bit frustrated,

554
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,720
and I've distanced myself a lot from other paranormal groups

555
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,200
and people because I feel like they're still asking the

556
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,079
same questions over and over and over that people have

557
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,759
been asking for fifteen years, and not taking it to

558
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:17,799
the next step and just accepting point blank that okay, well,

559
00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:21,119
all paranormal activity all yeah, Well there's ghosts and spirits

560
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,839
and people and somebody died in this house and it's

561
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:28,599
causing activity. And for me, I've gone so beyond that

562
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,920
because there's so many other aspects that can be looking

563
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:38,200
into and entertained, not only just with the paranormal, but eufology, cryptosology,

564
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,119
so many aspects that and as you mentioned earlier in

565
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:49,920
your opening, that our view of reality is even probably

566
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,480
skewed and it's so narrow to what's actually out there

567
00:31:54,119 --> 00:31:59,240
that sticking with the same old, regurgitated, you know, slogans

568
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,680
of this is what we're dealing with, is just it's

569
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:03,799
not even coming close.

570
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,599
Speaker 7: No, no, it's not.

571
00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 6: And you know I've I've dabbled in many areas of

572
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:14,680
this type of investigation. When I say dabble, I I

573
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:18,759
mean that in a you know, in a how would

574
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:22,759
I put this A kind of a disingenuous sort of way.

575
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:24,599
I mean, you know, when I get involved in anything,

576
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,359
I do it. You know, you know, all well researched

577
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,599
and and and and full on. But for me, compared

578
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,279
to my let's say, the cattle emulation research or some

579
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:37,960
of my UFO research, when I say I've dabbled in

580
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:39,799
UFO research, I've been to some of the most haunted

581
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,240
sights in North America. So and I've traveled, you know,

582
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:44,279
traveled thousands of miles to get to places and that

583
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:46,160
sort of thing. But that to me is kind of

584
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,240
a dabbling thing because I was actually hired to be

585
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:52,759
a cameraman and and be sort of a litmus test

586
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,200
for a lot of the data that was being being

587
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,079
gathered in that sort of thing. But but to me,

588
00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:59,720
it's not my my real baluewick guy, I don't really

589
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,160
consider myself the ghost hunter that sort of thing. But

590
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,799
but you know, going to some of these hands sights,

591
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:06,039
So first say, I want to know, is how come

592
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:07,079
we're going in here at night?

593
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:08,039
Speaker 1: Right?

594
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 5: Yeah?

595
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 7: Exactly what's up with that? If there's ghosts here? You know, well,

596
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,920
why are we here in the dark? Yeah, well those

597
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,400
would go show up. It's like, uh, I don't think so.

598
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 4: Twenty four hours twenty four to seven is usually when

599
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,519
it happened. But you know what it's again, it goes

600
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:28,559
back to perception because most people tend to notice paranormal

601
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:33,559
activity at night. Why because that it's quieter, the ambient

602
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,039
noise from the day has gone down. People are trying

603
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:39,519
you're lying or quiet in a quiet house.

604
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,279
Speaker 7: They didn't have that answer.

605
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 6: It was like, well, it's because that's when that's when

606
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,480
ghosts come out, you know. It was that kind of

607
00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:49,480
mentality of they never even thought to ask themselves that.

608
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,279
Speaker 4: Right, Well, when you're at work all day, how do

609
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:53,000
you know if there's anything going on in your house

610
00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:56,559
or not, or if you're watching the big football game

611
00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:59,400
and you're focused on it, or you're blasting your music,

612
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,480
or you're having Buddy's over for a barbecue. How the

613
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:04,160
hell can you be open to understanding if there's this

614
00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:07,119
very subtle type of activity going on around you.

615
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:09,679
Speaker 6: Some of the best Poltugeist cases have happened right in

616
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,480
the middle of the day, you know. You know, I

617
00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:15,679
tend to be someone that when when people say, you know,

618
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,559
keep your eyes to the sky, the first thing I

619
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:19,320
do is put my ear to the ground. When they

620
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,360
say everything always happens over here in the western sky,

621
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,039
I immediately say, okay, you guys, look over there. I'm

622
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:27,440
looking in the east. You know, I'm just one of

623
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,239
those kind of odd, contrarian kind of guys. And and

624
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:32,400
that's that's just kind of the way that I'm built.

625
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:36,199
And I you know, there's always got to be someone

626
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,639
like that in a group of investigators, someone that that

627
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,199
that takes the trends and looks at the exact opposite

628
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,480
and begins to be ready for that. Because quite often, this,

629
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,719
as I found over the many years that I've been

630
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,440
involved in this type of investigative work, quite often, uh,

631
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,480
the thing, the thing that you least expect to happen,

632
00:34:56,559 --> 00:34:59,039
is the thing that that that happens, and the thing

633
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,159
that you expect to happen and is the least likely

634
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,679
thing to happen oftentimes. And so you know, most people

635
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:09,440
tend to be caught unawares in situations like that. The

636
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,599
smart ones are the ones that are ready for the tricks.

637
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:16,559
Jewish element that's that's often introduced into into these types

638
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:19,719
of scenarios, and and that's something that I think, you know,

639
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,239
can't be underscored enough that it's you know, I have

640
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:28,119
identified some really cool patterns, let's say, over the years

641
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:31,400
with my data, some trends that seem to be taking place,

642
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,559
and as you know, as long as I don't say anything,

643
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:39,599
these patterns continue and they give me more and more

644
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,840
ammunition for my theory or or you know, my my thinking.

645
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,119
I've identified something and as soon as I open my mouth,

646
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,159
it all goes to hell. No, it completely flips to

647
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,960
one hundred and eighty degrees. It does the exact opposite.

648
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: Right, Well, let me jump in here real quickly, because

649
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,719
it would be we would be remiss if we did acknowledge.

650
00:36:01,679 --> 00:36:05,079
You know, we have some parallels here. You just briefly

651
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:08,119
mentioned your radio show and and you and Jean, I mean,

652
00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:10,440
Jean's been doing that show for forever. You do a

653
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,679
great job on the para cast, and I really I

654
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,239
really love your interaction. And you know, Jean's a tough cookie.

655
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,280
I mean he You know, between the two of you, guys,

656
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:21,760
you hold their feet to the fire, and I think

657
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,480
that that's a very healthy thing. You're respectful, you're not condescending,

658
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,159
but you also say, hey, look, you know what put

659
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,039
up or shut up? And that's what we need more of.

660
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:34,000
Mark and I have discussed this many times, and the

661
00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:37,800
item that you just brought out just bears repeating. You know,

662
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,840
it's interesting. I was taught as an investigative journalist that

663
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,440
if the explosion goes off, I always look in the

664
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,440
other direction to see where the guy's back behind the

665
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,639
tree with the plunger who set it off, you know,

666
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,760
And that's right. That's the way you're going to catch

667
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,920
stuff that the herd mentality never does. There's gonna be

668
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,039
some you know, there's gonna be the guy that rolls

669
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:01,000
a grenade under the restroom door and then is walking

670
00:37:01,039 --> 00:37:03,679
in the other direction. Is the dude that you need

671
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,840
to look at. Everybody else is going to be putting

672
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,800
their attention to the bathroom stalls blown apart. But that's

673
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,760
what you need to do, and I commend you for

674
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,960
that approach. And I think that's how we're going to

675
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,639
find things that are out of the mainstream, as Mark said,

676
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:18,920
where it's just more of the same. I mean, how

677
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,480
many times have we heard the same story over and

678
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:24,119
over and over again. There's really not too many ways

679
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:26,199
to slice the cake that hasn't already been done on

680
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,639
these mainstream issues. So I applaud you on that. Tell

681
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,360
me a little bit about the show and our listeners,

682
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,280
because I really want to encourage people to listen to

683
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,840
the para cast that's been on for many years, and

684
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,360
I think you guys do an excellent job of ferreting

685
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,599
out the flakes, so good for you.

686
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 7: We'll thank you.

687
00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 6: I appreciate that we you know, we've been on since

688
00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:49,719
I think two thousand and six. It's been on one

689
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,639
of the first of the Paranormal podcasts. We've graduated to

690
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,920
terrestrial radio over on the GCN Radio network. I think

691
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880
we're on twenty twenty five stations now as well.

692
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 7: So, uh, you know, the approach with the para cast

693
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:04,519
is is pretty simple.

694
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:05,119
Speaker 2: You know.

695
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 6: We we we try as best we can to drill

696
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:17,360
down to the real essential, you know, the foundation of

697
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,480
a person's work, their claims, uh, the subject matter that

698
00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:25,280
they're talking about. We really try to get to, uh,

699
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,440
you know, to the basic building blocks of what their

700
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,760
motivations are, what their data is, and and you know,

701
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,719
our motto is again as we we we separate the

702
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,159
signal from the noise. We don't consider ourselves an entertainment

703
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:44,119
show like you guys. You're more into, you know, exposing

704
00:38:44,199 --> 00:38:49,559
people to two new and different uh, investigative work, investigators

705
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,599
looking at subject matter from from fresh and creative angles.

706
00:38:54,119 --> 00:38:55,920
That's what we attempt to do at the Para cast.

707
00:38:56,599 --> 00:39:01,880
We don't suspend our disbelief like entertainment shows like Coast

708
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,039
to Coast and others who just sit back and go, wow,

709
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:08,960
that's really neat you know, tell us more. You know,

710
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,760
if somebody makes a you know, an outrageous claim, we

711
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,360
we want to know, Well wait a minute, hold on,

712
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,039
stop before you go on. You know, why did you

713
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:18,159
just say that? What do you have to back that

714
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:21,119
that statement up? You know what what what sort of

715
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,920
data do you have? What sort of uh you know

716
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,159
of information do you have to share with our audience

717
00:39:26,199 --> 00:39:29,480
that can they can validate that that particular statement. We

718
00:39:29,519 --> 00:39:32,519
ask tough questions, so we would like to consider ourselves

719
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:35,440
instead of entertainment tonight. We'd like to be considered as

720
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,039
sixty minutes asking tough questions. And and you know, we've

721
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:42,840
had a number of guests to literally hang up on

722
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,199
us because I've heard they can't stand to eat in

723
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,280
the kitchen, you know. Uh, and our reputation has preceded

724
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,159
us to a certain degree. There's quite a number of

725
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:56,800
individividuals that we've invited to come on the show to

726
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,760
hold their feet to the fire. And uh, you know,

727
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,480
Linda Howes, the Whitney Steamers, the Andrew Bissaggio's, the Douglas Dietrichs.

728
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,119
I could rattle off a long list of people that

729
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,599
will not come on the show because they know darn

730
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:11,320
well that Gene and I will just you.

731
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 7: Know, we'll dog him.

732
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 6: Well, we'll dog him and we know what we're talking about,

733
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,199
you know, we we don't come into this, uh, you know,

734
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,880
half cocked. My job on the show is to ask

735
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,239
a question of my guests about their subject matter and

736
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,519
have them say I don't know, and then give them

737
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:31,840
the answer. You that that's my job to know as

738
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,480
much as I possibly can about the subject and have

739
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,239
the guests thank me for supplying him with a little

740
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,280
bit of data point.

741
00:40:39,079 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 7: Here over there.

742
00:40:40,679 --> 00:40:43,599
Speaker 6: So and Gene is just very good on just you know,

743
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:46,440
stopping somebody on a dime and say, well wait a minute,

744
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,159
hold on, before you go on from there, you've got

745
00:40:49,199 --> 00:40:51,280
to qualify that statement a little better for us.

746
00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 3: You know.

747
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 7: And and we're doing a good job with it.

748
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:56,679
Speaker 6: You know, we do have a very large audience, and

749
00:40:57,519 --> 00:40:59,599
you know we do have quite a following.

750
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:01,599
Speaker 1: Up the good work. And yeah, he'd make a great

751
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:04,360
prosecuting attorney. But you know, you have to give Gene,

752
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,400
and also in your presentation that we had down in Trenton,

753
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,000
it's when someone has a command of the facts and

754
00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:13,920
has it nailed that goes a long way to say,

755
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:17,360
wait a minute, he's not just connecting very disparate thoughts

756
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,400
here and trying to make a straight line. And Gene

757
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,960
also has a great command of the specifics of the history,

758
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,960
the fallacies, the falsehoods, the phonies, and so you know,

759
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,519
you're not going to pull the bag over his head

760
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:31,559
and have him walk off the gang playing very quickly.

761
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,960
So that and as uncomfortable as that is, if Mark

762
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,280
and I feel the same way, and I want to

763
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,719
touch on another point in a second, that is the

764
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,599
only way that we're going to gain credibility in the

765
00:41:41,639 --> 00:41:44,119
general public, and that we're going to move this ball

766
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,320
down the road properly. If we're going to keep flogging

767
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,760
the same stories, then we're nothing but the fairy tale land.

768
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,320
It's just going to go exactly the problem. So it's uncomfortable,

769
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,159
and I hope that I'm held to the same standard.

770
00:41:57,199 --> 00:41:59,079
If I'm full of hot air, then somebody needs to

771
00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:01,039
put their foot up my we're in too, and say

772
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,760
you know your way out of line on that. You

773
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,000
can't substantiate your position on that, and I would I welcome.

774
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:07,960
And you know, Mark and I have had these discussions

775
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,800
where if you're off base, then you need to be

776
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,440
called the task on it, and that it's got to

777
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,039
apply equally to everybody. And the other issue that Mark

778
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:19,400
and I have really and I don't mean to speak

779
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,000
for him, but I strongly feel as a broadcast engineer

780
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:25,079
also that the data collection is where it's at. If

781
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:27,559
we're going to move this into understanding the physics of

782
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:30,800
our world that go beyond what we know now is

783
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,320
black and white, up and down and so forth, we

784
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,480
need to start identifying exactly what you're doing, and that

785
00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:42,000
are patterns of documented data in a number of areas

786
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,800
and things we understand, and we can capture Italy from

787
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:49,679
obvious stuff temperature, ambi, humidity and so forth, but also

788
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,159
in what frequency are we looking at EMF And let's

789
00:42:53,159 --> 00:42:55,800
start putting together a data logger. And David Rowntree is

790
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,480
a big proponent of this and has done a lot

791
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,519
of work on it. But that that's the key to saying, okay,

792
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:04,360
mainstream science, here's a set of parameters that seems to

793
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,440
repeat itself, and this is the anecdotal evidence that appears

794
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:12,280
or the recorded evidence that appears similar in similar sets

795
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,639
of circumstances appearing on the data logger. That's where we're

796
00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:17,639
going to move into some patterns that may be able

797
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:20,440
to put together as some type of an analytical theory.

798
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:23,400
And I applaud you for that because most people won't

799
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,639
won't even go there. They're there and and that's.

800
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,079
Speaker 6: That's gonna be a tough road to ho and it's

801
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:30,800
going to take a lot too lazy, I mean, they know,

802
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,639
and that's the proble. Don't have the don't have the

803
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,280
discipline to to be meticulous. And uh that's why you know,

804
00:43:38,679 --> 00:43:41,920
we can't be going at this, you know as individuals

805
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,719
flailing around, uh you know, in the in the dark.

806
00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:49,440
We have to work together only a concerted team effort.

807
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,079
Speaker 2: Uh.

808
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:52,559
Speaker 6: Anything short of that is is is really going to

809
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:55,400
be wasting time because you know, one person can't do

810
00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:58,000
everything themselves. And I learned this early on. And I

811
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:01,719
was very very fortunate to have you know, a well

812
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,360
uh just you know, a selfless team that that helped

813
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,119
me out every step of the way from my brother's

814
00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:13,480
Pyrenees dog Cato h on up to you know, I

815
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,840
stand on the shoulders of giants. So I've had people,

816
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,039
you know show me and and and and drill into

817
00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:24,159
my head the proper way to investigate and into log

818
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,840
data and and to to you know, to to go

819
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,840
about this as an amateur in a professional way. And uh,

820
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880
and I will always be thankful for that. And you know,

821
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,760
I'm fairly retired now from doing a lot of the

822
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,119
types of fieldwork that that I did, you know, back

823
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:44,400
in the nineties, in the early two thousands. It's just,

824
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:46,480
you know, one of the reasons why I moved to

825
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,000
Arizona was to get away from all that. To be

826
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,280
honest with you, I put in three hundred thousand miles

827
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,000
on my truck in six years, so you know, it

828
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,400
got a little bit too much for me. And and I,

829
00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:59,320
you know, I kind of burn out. And I'll be

830
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,280
the first to admit that.

831
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 7: You know, you.

832
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 6: Can only maintain a certain level of intensity for for

833
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:09,559
so long. And one of the reasons why I was

834
00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:11,519
able to do that is because I was the only

835
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:14,159
person people had to turn to. And when you keep

836
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:17,320
getting quality phone calls from law enforcement, from witnesses that

837
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,320
you trust, from from you know, you know, your local community, uh,

838
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,079
and people that aren't aren't out trying to get their

839
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:27,519
you know, you know, names in the paper, their faces

840
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:29,960
on TV. They just they just know that you are

841
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:32,400
interested enough to talk to them, and they want to

842
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,639
share something with you. You know, that motivates you more

843
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:40,199
than anything. And when when that when all of a sudden,

844
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,639
the wave of activity sort of stops, it kind of

845
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,920
leaves a hole in your life and you and you

846
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,039
go on and fill that with other activities and then

847
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:49,639
boom and this stuff starts up again. You know, It's

848
00:45:49,679 --> 00:45:54,119
it's really rough. Uh, And I don't I don't encourage

849
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,599
just anybody to get involved in this type of work.

850
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,840
The level of dedication, focus and intensity that you have

851
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,440
to bring to this is not easy and not everybody

852
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,760
can do this, as you guys well know. And so

853
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,679
you know, if you do decide to do something like this,

854
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,840
you have to do it correctly or you're a part

855
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,440
of the problem.

856
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're never going to have any credibility in

857
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,119
the real world. You know. It's funny if you think

858
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:23,679
about it, We're talking about concepts that clearly anybody that's

859
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,280
spent more than a cursory overview of this in looking

860
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,000
at it, well realize there's something going on here that's real.

861
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,440
We may not understand it. It may not be understood

862
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,079
in our lifetime. But there is something beyond our understanding

863
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:39,000
going on here, beyond our understanding of physics in the

864
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,440
world around us. Having said that, if you accept that hypothesis,

865
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,639
then it's really kind of funny to see a bunch

866
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,199
of people run out and buying all kinds of equipment.

867
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,719
They have no idea what it does, how it works,

868
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,679
the theories behind it, and you think you're going to

869
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:59,199
change our theories on physics and the known universe, and

870
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,719
we're running around haphazardly like like somebody that needs a hobby.

871
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:05,880
I mean, that is really silly. It's like trying to

872
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,679
get a bunch of people on the side to launch

873
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,199
the Space Shuttle from five thousand different places in the

874
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,800
country and have no coordination. So if you look at

875
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,199
it that way, there's every argument to be made for

876
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,920
trying to do it professionally, systematically and as informed as

877
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,039
we can with the resources we have to work together.

878
00:47:24,119 --> 00:47:26,599
So I don't think anyone could argue with the validity

879
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:29,320
of that concept that that's the way the direction we

880
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,880
need to move in. But before I drag you off

881
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,280
even further, Afield, start telling us about how you got

882
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,719
involved in this, what's involved for our listeners who have

883
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,639
not been exposed to it, will we'll have quite something

884
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:45,440
to think about for the rest of the night, the week,

885
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,239
and possibly forever. So it's all yours tell us about

886
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,480
cattle mutilations and animal mutilations.

887
00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, and I must say, you know, I've done

888
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:56,719
a lot of things in my life, and you know,

889
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,880
I have a pretty active social life, and and you know,

890
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,360
I get out and do all sorts of things, have

891
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,039
lots of other hobbies. And out of all the things

892
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:08,519
that I've done in my life, my least favorite thing

893
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:12,440
to do is to investigate thousands of pounds of rotting

894
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:21,039
animal flesh. It is disgusting, It is unnerving it, you know,

895
00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:23,119
to have your girlfriend say you are not coming in

896
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:24,639
this house until I hose you.

897
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 7: Down and you burn those clothes.

898
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 6: It's just really it's I really, to this day, I

899
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:36,119
do not know how I've I was able to get

900
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:37,920
involved in this to the extent that I was.

901
00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 7: It all started.

902
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 6: Innocently enough. The New Year's Eve nineteen ninety two. I

903
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,840
had a New Year's e party and had a bunch

904
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,000
of people over, and I had heard about a UFO

905
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:55,719
siding that about eighteen to twenty people in the town had,

906
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,360
as it turns out, had seen this display of two

907
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,559
hundred foot ovals that came down out of the song

908
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:05,039
Great Crystal Mountains, about three or four miles down out

909
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:08,039
into the valley over the town, hovered and then shot

910
00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:12,320
off to the south after several minutes of you know,

911
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,559
hanging around for you know, ten percent of the town

912
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:20,360
to see. And I had been away gigging with my band.

913
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,519
I'd missed it. But you know, a month or so later,

914
00:49:24,039 --> 00:49:26,159
who I am having a party, and everywhere I went

915
00:49:26,159 --> 00:49:29,559
in the party, people were talking about this UFO event,

916
00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:32,519
and so I thought, wow, you know, I'm writing, you know,

917
00:49:32,679 --> 00:49:35,519
articles for my little local paper. Let me, you know,

918
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,440
start taking some notes here and interview you know, people separately.

919
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:42,039
And and you know, after I talked to enough people,

920
00:49:42,039 --> 00:49:43,920
I realized they were all talking about the same thing,

921
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,159
and generally everybody was describing the same event. And so

922
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:50,320
I brought everybody together towards the end of the party

923
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,280
and said, hey, did you know that these people over

924
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,480
here had this same they saw the same thing you did.

925
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:57,840
And everybody was like, wow, I didn't know, you know,

926
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,480
And and so it was kind of cool to bring

927
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:03,480
everybody together and let them share their experiences, and somebody

928
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:05,840
chimed in, Oh, that was the same night there was

929
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,400
a cattle mutilation down in Costilla County, which is a

930
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,559
couple counties south of US where we were in Swatch

931
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:15,320
County in the San Luis Valley in Colorado. And boy,

932
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,760
that just you know, ding ding ding bells went off

933
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,360
of my head and I was off to the races.

934
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,719
At that point, I was convinced I had, you know,

935
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,119
an article, and so.

936
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 7: I had two.

937
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,119
Speaker 6: Weeks time before you know, the monthly paper came out

938
00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:33,199
for the crestone Eagle, and so I just dove in.

939
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,079
I you know, I was in between construction jobs. It was,

940
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:41,639
you know, the beginning of my downtime working construction, and

941
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,599
so I had some spare time. So I started really

942
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:48,000
digging into researching the San Luis Valley. Of course, I

943
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:50,400
knew about the Snippy case that occurred, you know, in

944
00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:53,239
nineteen sixty seven, and I knew that there had been

945
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,440
UFO sidings back in the sixties. But I thought all

946
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,719
that was ancient history. I didn't think any of this

947
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,440
stuff went on anymore, although there had and a few

948
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,239
reports that I had heard, you know, over the prior

949
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:04,559
two three years that I'd been in the area, so

950
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:07,480
you know, I had always kind of had my ears

951
00:51:07,519 --> 00:51:10,440
perked up for things, but this was the first time

952
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,639
I really started researching. So I immediately contacted the head

953
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:18,079
of the sociologic sociology department down to Adams State University.

954
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,719
I started contacting county sheriffs. The first call I made

955
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,639
actually was to the owner of Snippy the Horse, who

956
00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:28,480
was still alive, bro Lewis, and he told me that

957
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:31,760
I needed to call the TV lady, who turned out

958
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,480
to be Linda Moultenhowe, and also the Texas Boys who

959
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:38,840
turned out to be Tom Adams and Gary Massey, and

960
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,639
they were the people that, as it turns out, became

961
00:51:41,639 --> 00:51:45,280
my mentors for quite a number of years. And so

962
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,639
I was off to the races, and within less than

963
00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:55,199
a week I had found treasure troves of databases of

964
00:51:56,039 --> 00:52:00,000
stories of incidences that had occurred in the past and

965
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,599
had occurred fairly recently. I knew I had enough material

966
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:07,199
to write a book, if not several books, and so

967
00:52:08,199 --> 00:52:11,039
you know, it was like all this information had been

968
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:14,119
sitting there, you know, waiting for somebody to come along

969
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,440
and just uncover it and put it all down in

970
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:21,280
one place. So I ended up writing a fifteen hundred

971
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,800
word article. I was asked to supply five hundred words,

972
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,400
and somehow managed to get fifteen hundred words published. And

973
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:32,119
like I said, you know, the whole thing just went

974
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:34,760
quantum on me and went viral. Before there was an Internet,

975
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,079
I got, you know, just hundreds and hundreds of letters.

976
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,400
TV shows showed up. Within two months, I was on

977
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:46,880
national TV. And I began my calimulation investigation with a

978
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,039
handful of photographs that were handed to me by the

979
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:51,880
local county sheriff. So Watch County, where I had lived,

980
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,639
had no official reports. In all the databases that I've

981
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,440
uncovered since then, all the main investigators to this nomenon

982
00:53:00,519 --> 00:53:04,239
had never had any cases from Mike County. And the

983
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,599
sheriff gave me twenty four photographs of various cases that

984
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,639
had occurred in the seventies and early eighties, and so

985
00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:13,840
I knew that, you know, so Watch had had cases.

986
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,840
And because I was able to find the deputy that

987
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,039
investigated the cases, I was able to id, you know,

988
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,679
working with him, where each of the photographs, what ranches

989
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,400
belonged to each of the photographs, and the one that

990
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,239
was closest to me was out in Moffitt, which is

991
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,719
the next town, about twelve miles away, And so I

992
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,760
called up the ranch owner and said, hey, I have

993
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,440
this photograph of year Bull that was mutilated in June

994
00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:41,599
nineteen eighty. You know, I'm writing an article. Would you

995
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:43,000
mind if I came out and talked to you about

996
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,239
it and talk to your family, and you know, Virginia

997
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,639
Sutherland said, sure, come on out. So I went out

998
00:53:47,679 --> 00:53:49,880
the next day and she said they had been sitting

999
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,559
down at dinner and they heard a helicopter fly really

1000
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:54,159
low over their house, and they thought it was kind

1001
00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:56,960
of strange, but nobody went outside to look. And then

1002
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,119
about twenty minutes later, they heard it come back the

1003
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:01,599
other way, and they thought it was weird because it

1004
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:04,760
sounded like it had, you know, had possibly taken off

1005
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,840
from their field a couple miles a mile or so

1006
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,239
south of their ranch house. And so they went outside

1007
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,320
in this this U forty seven, this ancient, you know,

1008
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:18,199
like early fifties Korean War era helicopter that was painted

1009
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:21,239
bright must and yellow, flew right over their house, you know,

1010
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,519
forty fifty feet up, and you know, it was still

1011
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,480
light enough for them to see it had no id markings,

1012
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:30,639
no insignias, know, anything to indicate where it had come from.

1013
00:54:31,119 --> 00:54:32,840
Next morning, of course, it went out to the field

1014
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,480
to see where it had landed, and they found their

1015
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,639
bull mulated. Well, this is thirteen years before I interviewed

1016
00:54:38,679 --> 00:54:43,440
them and interviewed Virginia and her family, and you know,

1017
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,639
we went out there. I took the skull and painted it.

1018
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:46,480
It's on my wall.

1019
00:54:46,599 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 7: And you know.

1020
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 6: Little did I know my first investigation would would actually

1021
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,719
hook me for life. You know, the following day, after

1022
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,880
I had interviewed them in this incredible story, I went

1023
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,119
started typing up my notes and my you know, was

1024
00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:05,119
transcribing my tape recording of the interview. And you know,

1025
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,400
I'm sitting there in my underwear, having coffee in the morning.

1026
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,320
I hear this the sound of a helicopter and I

1027
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,880
look out the the big plate glass window in the

1028
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,159
dining noo and here comes up, you know, nineteen fifty

1029
00:55:15,639 --> 00:55:19,360
U forty seven painted mustard yellow flew right over my house.

1030
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,079
Speaker 7: And I just I'm.

1031
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,599
Speaker 6: Telling you, that hooked me for life. Man, I'm still

1032
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:26,840
flopping on the end of the whatever cosmic fishing line

1033
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,480
that was dangled out there. So it's just been you know,

1034
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,360
I've been two hundred cases later.

1035
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: Now we're we're gonna interrupt you here because we're gonna

1036
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,840
come up on the break here in just a minute.

1037
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,639
But the fact that that you know that that was

1038
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,920
an antique helicopter. I have a helicopter license, and it's

1039
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,559
kind of even hard to find any of them unless

1040
00:55:48,559 --> 00:55:51,679
you go to the Boeing Museum out in Seattle. So

1041
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:53,920
and that was what nineteen eighty you said?

1042
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:57,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, the original event was nineteen eighty when I

1043
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,880
this is thirteen years later, January ninety three when I

1044
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:01,239
saw it.

1045
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 1: Wow, Mark, how much time do we have to the

1046
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:04,519
break here? Real quick?

1047
00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:06,280
Speaker 4: Are we we got about a minute here till the

1048
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,559
break or you know, we can actually go to the

1049
00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:10,960
break now and then we can come back and discuss

1050
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:11,800
it further from there.

1051
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: Let's do it. So don't go away. We'll be back

1052
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,679
with Christopher O'Brien on Unknown Origins radio. Don't move a muscle,

1053
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:18,400
will be right back.

1054
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 9: My life fades, my eyes dim yet I remember Wasteland Weekend,

1055
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1057
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apocalyptic environment in our Wasteland compounds, surrounded by specialty built sets, vehicles,

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and performers straight out of Mad Max and other post

1059
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apocalyptic movies. This is an adult only, fully costumed event

1060
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that includes live bands and DJs, Wasteland tribes such as

1061
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the Mutant Hunters, Dukes of the Nuke and the Juggers, Thunderdome,

1062
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combat and stunt performers, post apocalyptic vehicles, Wasteland Merchants in

1063
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1064
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1065
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1066
00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: What a Bang, What a Lovely night.

1067
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Speaker 5: Glennataie Publishing is proud to announce the release of our

1068
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latest novel, The Dmdyke Legacy by Barry Durham. Set in

1069
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1070
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a legacy of witchcraft thought to have died out four

1071
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hundred years before when the Pendle Witches were hanged at

1072
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1073
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1074
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1075
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killer before they are all wiped out. The Demdike Legacy

1076
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is a thrilling mystery novel that blends modern detective work

1077
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with old world pagan practices. The Dembak Legacy is now

1078
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1079
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1080
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: Can't wait for Halloween to be Scared Coming this Jewe

1081
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1082
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popular paranormal conference on the planet, returns for its seventh

1083
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straight year. Come meet some of the top paranormal researchers

1084
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and experiencers in the field. Attend lectures by the real

1085
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life survivors of some of the most notorious hauntings in

1086
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1087
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Haunting in Connecticut and the Amityville Hole. Phenomenology one oh

1088
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1089
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twenty first at the York Holiday Inn and Conference Center.

1090
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1091
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1092
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Speaker 7: Happy hardy between science and ignorance.

1093
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: There is pilla.

1094
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 8: Thank you random British guide. I am West Forsyth, the

1095
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,559
host of Paranormal Filler, my weekly radio show where I

1096
00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:24,480
explore many areas of the paranormal while trying to keep

1097
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,320
a balance between believer and skeptic. No topic is off limits,

1098
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:34,480
no viewpoint is silenced. Paranormal Filla on the Dark Matter

1099
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:39,119
Radio Network Wednesdays at seven pm Eastern, four pm Pacific.

1100
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,039
Speaker 4: And welcome back everyone to Unknown Origins Radio. Here on

1101
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:19,480
the Dark Matter Radio Network. I'm Mark Johnson along with

1102
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:24,679
Bruce Pearson, and our guest tonight is Christopher O'Brien who

1103
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:29,840
has written several books, including Stalking the Herd, and he's

1104
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,360
done many, many years of research into the strange events

1105
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,280
happening in the San Louis Valley within Colorado.

1106
01:00:36,679 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 5: And New Mexico.

1107
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 4: And you know, before we went to break, you started

1108
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,800
talking about seeing the helicopter, Chris, and I was wondering,

1109
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:50,079
were there any reports of anybody that had actually seen

1110
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,559
one of these mutilations like take place, whether they're seeing

1111
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:59,079
craft in the sky or or is it always that

1112
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:01,960
the animals were found later and maybe somebody saw lights

1113
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:03,000
but they were unrelated.

1114
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,239
Speaker 6: Well, it depends, you know, you have to really look

1115
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:09,480
at this whole subject.

1116
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,199
Speaker 7: You know, in Toto.

1117
01:01:12,599 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 6: Back when when the first wave of cases occurred, it

1118
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:22,039
was rustling actually that was being reported in Missouri, Kansas, Iowa,

1119
01:01:22,039 --> 01:01:26,800
and Nebraska back in nineteen seventy seventy one. A lot

1120
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,960
of hogs actually initially were being reported stolen, and some

1121
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:36,880
cattle and helicopters were being reported by ranchers and reported

1122
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:41,320
to local authorities. And what you go out in ranching

1123
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,000
communities and you start stealing livestock, you're going to get

1124
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,840
some attention real fast. And absolutely this actually, you know,

1125
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:53,880
turned into what kind of a dangerous situation. National Guard

1126
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:58,280
helicopters and utility power line checking helicopters are being fired upon,

1127
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,360
and and vigilant groups were farming. Truckloads of very heavily

1128
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,320
armed ranchers were patrolling the you know, the areas where

1129
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,639
these animals were being stolen. And it's almost like that

1130
01:02:11,719 --> 01:02:19,199
particular mo modus operandi wasn't It just wasn't working for

1131
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:23,320
whomever the perpetrators were. Because in nineteen seventy two, we

1132
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:28,480
have a complete cessation of you know, serialized rustling and

1133
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,880
of any sort of reports of mutilations. There were some

1134
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,920
mutilations reported in seventy seventy one. They were fairly rare

1135
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:39,519
at the time. They didn't really have any sort of notoriety.

1136
01:02:41,239 --> 01:02:45,159
People were not reporting them like they did just a

1137
01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:49,000
couple of years later. But we see this kind of

1138
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:53,639
you know, sort of a I don't know, sort of

1139
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:57,119
a version one point zero stealing the animals and not

1140
01:02:57,159 --> 01:03:00,440
returning them. Then seventy two, we don't have any cases

1141
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,159
at all. I couldn't find a single case.

1142
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:04,679
Speaker 7: Not one.

1143
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 6: And believe me, I looked and had some help looking,

1144
01:03:10,039 --> 01:03:14,039
and then boom, seventy three happened. It really started to

1145
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:17,559
fire up. By seventy five, as many as eight states

1146
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:20,360
a night were getting hit. In the fall of seventy five,

1147
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:26,719
helicopters were being seen, strange lights were being seen. You know,

1148
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:33,239
there were some crime scene evidence scenarios that were reported

1149
01:03:33,239 --> 01:03:38,639
by law enforcement. Mascalpel was found some tracks here. Most

1150
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:41,239
of the time, though soft tissue organs were found missing

1151
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,840
from animals with no apparent cause of death, there were

1152
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,760
no crime scene for the most part, no crime scene

1153
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,880
evidence was left behind. It's almost as if the animals

1154
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,800
had been taken somewhere, experimented on, then dropped back, possibly

1155
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,239
in another part of the pasture. Those cases where animals

1156
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:01,599
were found several fields away from where they were original,

1157
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:05,000
you know, when they were last seen, multiple fence lines,

1158
01:04:05,079 --> 01:04:08,440
locked gates, So there appears to be some sort of

1159
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,280
aerial component to this. By the time we get to

1160
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,719
nineteen eighty eighty one, we've had tom Adams documented over

1161
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:21,920
two hundred and fifty well, you know, documented helicopter sidings.

1162
01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:23,119
Speaker 7: In and around reulation sites.

1163
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:26,519
Speaker 6: There were a number of cases where animals were seen

1164
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:32,000
shot at by personnel aboard helicopters. Ranchers were shot at

1165
01:04:32,519 --> 01:04:36,840
in some of the early seventy seventy one cases, for instance.

1166
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:42,599
So in answer to your question, just in a handful

1167
01:04:42,599 --> 01:04:49,320
of cases, we're actual perpetrators seeing by witnesses. Linda Howe,

1168
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:53,280
of course, has touted the couple of cases where non

1169
01:04:53,360 --> 01:05:00,239
humananities were reported, one in Missouri Springs to mind, by

1170
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,039
and large, this is a you know, this is the

1171
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:07,519
last frost, the first frost, a warm weather phenomenon that occurs,

1172
01:05:08,159 --> 01:05:13,320
you know, primarily at night, and you know, oftentimes you

1173
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,320
hear ranchers say, you know, my dogs if somebody had

1174
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,239
been out there. If something had been out there doing

1175
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:20,960
that to my cattle, my dogs would have known.

1176
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:22,639
Speaker 7: Uh. You know.

1177
01:05:22,719 --> 01:05:28,039
Speaker 6: Oftentimes, most often there's no evidence, uh, during the during

1178
01:05:28,039 --> 01:05:30,440
the time period when the animal was slain and disfigured,

1179
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,239
there's no evidence to to really uh you know, ascertain

1180
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,519
something who was out there or what was out there.

1181
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: Chris, No, I take me interrupt. You go ahead and finish.

1182
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,679
I want to give you an example here. When you're done,

1183
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:50,440
go ahead. Uh. Well, I just I find it helpful

1184
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,920
for the for the listeners if we try to put

1185
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,119
this in you know, take this back from the abstract

1186
01:05:55,159 --> 01:05:56,840
and put it in the real world and put it

1187
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,920
in context. I covered a cattle mutilation out and I

1188
01:06:00,119 --> 01:06:03,119
came on the scene in late seventy five in eastern

1189
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:06,480
New Mexico up on the high planes there and we

1190
01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:09,000
covered a guy outside of Clovis, New Mexico, a rancher

1191
01:06:09,039 --> 01:06:12,480
that we got word and we're right off Interstate forty

1192
01:06:13,039 --> 01:06:16,199
about a mile in a dirt lane into his ranch.

1193
01:06:17,079 --> 01:06:20,360
As you pulled up, we didn't get within fifteen hundred

1194
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,199
yards at a place and the dogs, there were three

1195
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,280
or four dogs going crazy and off to this Across

1196
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,760
the lane from the house was a holding pen where

1197
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,840
he obviously had you know, he would load trailers. And

1198
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,119
he had a holding pen with a mercury vapor light

1199
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:35,679
and then a Morton steel building. We went in and

1200
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:38,599
we interviewed him and let me put it in perspective

1201
01:06:38,639 --> 01:06:40,480
in the real world, as you said this, these are

1202
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:45,679
felony crimes. Ranchers don't like people stealing what they make

1203
01:06:45,719 --> 01:06:49,760
a living off of. And I remember this guy name exactly,

1204
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:56,000
and this guy had this particular rancher had checked the

1205
01:06:56,039 --> 01:07:00,000
livestock to be loaded to go to Amarillo, to the stockyard,

1206
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:03,519
to the pens. The next day, went to bed at

1207
01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:05,639
nine o'clock. They were all standing there ready to go

1208
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:07,760
happy at clams. He checked it, he I remember, I'm

1209
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,400
telling us he checked the ear tags. They were all

1210
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,480
ready to be loaded on. The truck was coming at

1211
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,400
eight o'clock in the morning. The dogs didn't bark him

1212
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:15,800
and his wife went to bet. He says, I'm on

1213
01:07:16,639 --> 01:07:18,719
one hundred and fifty feet. You see how far my

1214
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:21,480
bedroom window is. He comes out in the morning and

1215
01:07:21,519 --> 01:07:24,360
here's this steer standing there like Roy, you know, like

1216
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,599
trigger Roy Rogers horse, no blood in it. You know,

1217
01:07:27,679 --> 01:07:30,400
it's wrecked them court out And I said, well, who

1218
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,519
do you think could have done this? And he said, well,

1219
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:35,079
it wasn't a helicopter. We would have heard it. I

1220
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:37,559
don't see any tracks around it. He said, I really

1221
01:07:37,559 --> 01:07:39,480
don't care if the tooth fairy did it. He said,

1222
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,880
I want somebody to prosecute these sobs. They just stole

1223
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,519
twelve hundred dollars out of my wallet and I want

1224
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:48,400
somebody hung exactly, and I mean this guy was very

1225
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,039
He says, look, I don't know who did it, but

1226
01:07:51,159 --> 01:07:54,199
somebody sure as hell took that money out of my wallet,

1227
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:57,679
and I want to prosecute it. Now, that's the real world,

1228
01:07:57,719 --> 01:07:59,199
as crazy as this stuff is.

1229
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 6: Just forty past wotone pasted Wolsenburg up into Colorado, and

1230
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,320
a month ago we had we had a case right

1231
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,880
off within sight of I forty, I w would be

1232
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,079
I twenty five, run goes up to Denver.

1233
01:08:14,639 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: And so you know, this is the real this is.

1234
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,279
We're not fooling around here with people telling stories around

1235
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:23,399
the campfire. These are real guys that are losing thousands

1236
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,279
of dollars and it's been think about another crime. Let's

1237
01:08:26,279 --> 01:08:29,479
put this in perspective. Here, you tell me another crime,

1238
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,800
a serial killer, a serial crime that's been going on

1239
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,520
for fifty years all over North America, and nobody's ever

1240
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,439
been prosecuted or indicted for it. This is if it

1241
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,880
was anything else, you know, the country would be up

1242
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,920
in arms about this, going would be hammering the state

1243
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,880
police and everybody else saying do something. But well they

1244
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:52,159
were back in the seventies, so they really were.

1245
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:53,119
Speaker 7: They were.

1246
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 6: It was the the it was the AP news story

1247
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,439
of the year in Colorado in seventy five. There were

1248
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,279
you know, I think the rewards got up to sixty

1249
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:05,840
thousand dollars at one point. Of course, this is all

1250
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,960
ammunition for the debunkers and the skeptics to say, well,

1251
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:13,279
these animals are just being right, they're dying of you know,

1252
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:16,960
whatever cause. And then scavengers are coming in and scavenging

1253
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,319
on the animal and making it appear unusual, and it's

1254
01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:24,079
that's like it's like telling a mechanic, uh, you know,

1255
01:09:24,119 --> 01:09:27,279
who's looking at a car that he's working on and

1256
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:29,720
worked on the night before he comes back and and

1257
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,800
all the tires are slashed, right, and uh, you know,

1258
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,319
someone will try to explain that away by saying nobody

1259
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:39,479
did that. It's just something that that occurs naturally. I mean,

1260
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:44,640
it's it's these guys are professional. This is their their livelihood.

1261
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:48,119
They see two percent of their their animals die every year,

1262
01:09:48,199 --> 01:09:50,520
two percent of all livestock die in a given year,

1263
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,520
two percent of humans die in a given year. So

1264
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:55,520
you know, they see dead bodies all the time. They

1265
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,920
see what coyotes do, They see what with vultures, buzzards, crows, magpie,

1266
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,680
They see what small animals do, maggot blooms.

1267
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:06,199
Speaker 7: They know what.

1268
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:10,640
Speaker 6: Kinds of things are detrimental for their herd's health, whether

1269
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:16,319
it's poison, plants, bad water, lightning strikes. You know, there's

1270
01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:19,880
any one of many things that can kill ahead of

1271
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,760
livestock and then subsequently disfigure it. Now we're dealing with

1272
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:28,800
thousands and thousands of cases where there is no apparent

1273
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,159
indication of a cause of death and no evidence to

1274
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:35,920
suggest how the animal was disfigured. Now, I've seen magpies

1275
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,039
drill out perfect circles in the rear ends of cows.

1276
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,920
I've seen the effect of maggot blooms, you know, scouring

1277
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,640
the edge of where the scavengers have pulled out, an udder,

1278
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:54,039
pulled off the genitalia, whatever, these types of effects in nature,

1279
01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:59,680
in the natural process of animals being scavenged, are fairly

1280
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,439
ez I think for the most part for ranchers and

1281
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,319
veterinarians and veterinary especially veterinary pathologists, who are the only

1282
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:10,479
professionals really able to determine a cause of death and

1283
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:15,039
and cause of disfigurement. But you know, these are fairly easy,

1284
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,840
uh nine times out of ten to identify, and we're

1285
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:19,880
dealing with something different.

1286
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 7: And because I think.

1287
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,199
Speaker 6: Just the very word mutilation, I think turns a lot

1288
01:11:27,239 --> 01:11:30,119
of people off. And I've for years have gone back

1289
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:34,159
and forth with other investigators about the efficacy of using

1290
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:38,720
that particular word to describe these cases. Whenever someone here's

1291
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,159
the word mutilation, it's it's it's it's kind of revolting,

1292
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,720
it's it's off putting. So I think I think there's

1293
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,399
a built in sort of uh negation factor going on

1294
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:50,760
here that that people just don't want to know about this,

1295
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,479
And and within the ranching community, it's been going on

1296
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,319
for so long that I don't think they report these

1297
01:11:56,359 --> 01:11:59,640
cases anymore for the most part, because they know that

1298
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:02,840
all they're doing is bringing the glare.

1299
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,079
Speaker 7: Of scrutiny down on them.

1300
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 6: They're being singled out within their community as being victims.

1301
01:12:10,079 --> 01:12:13,600
There's a stigma attached to these types of cases. I

1302
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,920
think in many places people would much rather drag it

1303
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,880
off to a bone pile, bury it out of side,

1304
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,079
out of mind, don't let anybody know what happened, just

1305
01:12:23,279 --> 01:12:26,840
kind of, you know, hitch up the belt another notch

1306
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:28,560
and swallow the loss.

1307
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 5: You know.

1308
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 6: But for the most part, after you know, being out

1309
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,720
and just dozens and dozens and dozens of these cases,

1310
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:39,399
you really start to scratch your head and wonder, first

1311
01:12:39,399 --> 01:12:42,279
of all, what the heck's the motivation? Why are these

1312
01:12:42,279 --> 01:12:46,319
things happening. It's apparent that they figured out how to

1313
01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:50,399
do it, so, you know, obviously the modus operandi is

1314
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:53,680
pretty dialed in, but why, what's the motivation to do this?

1315
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,840
And you know, to really get down to brass tacks

1316
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,680
with this, I really feel it's not so much the

1317
01:13:00,119 --> 01:13:04,920
sure the particular animal, it's where the ranch is located

1318
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,439
in the environment that is being tested. And I really

1319
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,319
do get a sense that we're dealing with some sort

1320
01:13:10,359 --> 01:13:15,520
of environmental monitoring. That's the only real theory to me

1321
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,760
that that has really stood the test of time. We've

1322
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,800
had the alien theory, We've had the government uh, you know,

1323
01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:28,239
bacteriological warfare. You know, we've had you know, various theories

1324
01:13:28,279 --> 01:13:31,600
that have been put out there by skeptics, by believers,

1325
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,039
and none of them really seem to work whole cloth.

1326
01:13:36,399 --> 01:13:39,800
And you know, that's what makes this really doubly and

1327
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,439
triply and quadruplely difficult, is that there's no one size

1328
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,600
fits all answer. Even the environmental monitoring theory, which I

1329
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:52,279
think is the most uh, it's it's the theory that

1330
01:13:52,279 --> 01:13:54,960
that that holds the most water for me. But even

1331
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,680
that doesn't explain all the cases. We have cases done

1332
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:03,239
in South America that occur routinely that never you know,

1333
01:14:03,359 --> 01:14:06,079
word of these cases do not leave the local area

1334
01:14:06,159 --> 01:14:08,840
down there. There's thousands of cases that have occurred since

1335
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,680
ninety nine two thousand, when cases pretty much stopped occurring

1336
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,359
in North America for the most part, or at least

1337
01:14:15,359 --> 01:14:18,479
stop being reported. Boom, we had this huge wave of

1338
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:23,399
cases for six seven years that just blistered the pompous

1339
01:14:23,399 --> 01:14:26,359
and areas where they raise cattle in South America. And

1340
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,159
you don't hear about those cases up here. We barely

1341
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:32,600
hear about cases that occur in our own backyard up here,

1342
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,279
let alone cases that occur south of the equator.

1343
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 7: And you know, there's this is a worldwide phenomenon.

1344
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 8: Now.

1345
01:14:39,039 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 6: The earliest outbreak of unexplained livestock death cases that I

1346
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:47,560
was able to find was in sixteen oh six in

1347
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,239
England where hundreds and hundreds of sheep are being mutilated

1348
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,439
and no one could figure out why, during the reign

1349
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,920
of James the First So you know, it can't all

1350
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:57,600
be the government.

1351
01:14:58,039 --> 01:14:58,560
Speaker 7: The government.

1352
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,079
Speaker 6: US government wasn't mulating cattle before there was the United

1353
01:15:02,079 --> 01:15:05,600
States of America, you know, one hundred and almost two hundred.

1354
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:06,319
Speaker 7: Years before the US.

1355
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:07,680
Speaker 1: Uh.

1356
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,520
Speaker 6: So you know, this is a mystery. There's a paranormal

1357
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,920
aspect to it. I think in some cases, not all,

1358
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:16,640
probably a minority of cases. I think that there's multiple

1359
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,279
groups involved. I think that there's a possibility of of

1360
01:15:20,279 --> 01:15:24,840
of several agendas that are being overlapped, you know, different

1361
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:29,199
groups having different agendas. I think that there's a lot

1362
01:15:29,199 --> 01:15:31,800
of things that you can glean from from the fastest

1363
01:15:32,239 --> 01:15:37,520
regenerating tissues in a grazing animal. I think, uh, you

1364
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:41,399
know the fact that cattle hemoglobin if you're a universal

1365
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:45,319
donor or universe or a universal receiver of blood as

1366
01:15:45,319 --> 01:15:49,520
a human, you can survive a transfusion of pure cattle hemoglobin.

1367
01:15:50,159 --> 01:15:53,920
You know, we're almost in a genetic virtual match to

1368
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:58,800
to cattle hemoglobin human uh to cattle. And so there

1369
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:05,359
there are some some I think, some interesting points that

1370
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:09,159
may tie together and give us, you know, some clues.

1371
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,640
But you know, this is a really complex subject.

1372
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 7: And that's that's why.

1373
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,039
Speaker 6: You know, it took me nine hundred pages to you know,

1374
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,720
three hundred which I had to take out because it

1375
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,199
was too big. You know, it's a half a million

1376
01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:25,239
pages and six hundred pages, half a million words, six

1377
01:16:25,279 --> 01:16:28,960
hundred pages that went into Stocking the Herd. And I

1378
01:16:29,039 --> 01:16:31,239
still have a whole other book to write to analyze

1379
01:16:31,279 --> 01:16:31,920
the first book.

1380
01:16:32,039 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 5: So well, look at it this way.

1381
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 4: You already have a third of the next book written.

1382
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 2: So.

1383
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: Exactly. You know, I just want to point out, just

1384
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,159
for the sake of argument, that I did donate blood today,

1385
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:44,760
So I hope there's some poor slav out there's going

1386
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,520
to get polluted with my blood yet again.

1387
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 6: So and what was one of the questions they asked you,

1388
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:53,359
did you spend more than six months in England right

1389
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:55,479
in the eighties or nineties. And you know why they

1390
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:55,920
asked you.

1391
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,399
Speaker 1: That, Yes, because of the mad cow disease bringing mad

1392
01:16:59,439 --> 01:16:59,960
out disease.

1393
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 6: And I think that that may be one of the

1394
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,960
one of the most important clues that we have for

1395
01:17:07,039 --> 01:17:08,119
this particular mystery.

1396
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:10,520
Speaker 1: Well, and as you pointed out in your lecture and

1397
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,079
also in the book, there's the chronic wasting disease which

1398
01:17:13,119 --> 01:17:15,840
has now taken over most of the northern tier of

1399
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,800
the United States, which is the wild animal variant of

1400
01:17:20,399 --> 01:17:24,199
basically mad cow disease. And if you've done the research,

1401
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:28,640
I mean I came across a fact and completely documented

1402
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:34,119
that a friend of our families, her mother died of

1403
01:17:34,199 --> 01:17:36,239
mad cow disease, and it was covered up here in

1404
01:17:36,319 --> 01:17:39,159
Hunter and County, New Jersey about ten years ago now,

1405
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,439
so it's out there. It's something to be concerned with,

1406
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:46,239
you know, in your environmental monitoring. I thought about this

1407
01:17:46,399 --> 01:17:51,640
driving home from your lecture and that hast has some

1408
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:56,359
great points of relevance in it because the question would

1409
01:17:56,359 --> 01:17:59,760
reasonably be asked, Well, the government, they have plenty of land,

1410
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,319
they have plenty of research. Why don't they buy their

1411
01:18:01,319 --> 01:18:04,520
own herds and test them and monitor them. But they

1412
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:08,079
do it. Yeah, and they do. But the point is that,

1413
01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:11,359
as you said, the locale of these animals in the

1414
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:16,760
natural setting, in the food chain is not feasible to

1415
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:19,600
pick one from this farm here and that farm there

1416
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,840
as readily as it is to just go steal one

1417
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,159
when they want it. I think there's great efficacy to

1418
01:18:25,279 --> 01:18:27,720
that argument, and I think that that may in fact

1419
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,159
be one of the components or one of the groups,

1420
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,680
or one of the missions that are behind us. But

1421
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,680
it's the thing that I find most intriguing out of

1422
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,600
all this is how do they pluck the animals away

1423
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,039
from like this one that I covered with no noise

1424
01:18:45,119 --> 01:18:47,840
and no alarm. And then, you know, and I think

1425
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,479
this goes back to a whole other level of discussion,

1426
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,279
why do they drop them back in the same place,

1427
01:18:53,359 --> 01:18:57,600
Because it's very well vetted now that at least in

1428
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:02,199
the sixties and seventies, the CIA and other organizations would

1429
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:10,840
use UFO rhetoric or UFO misinformation, or allow UFO concern

1430
01:19:11,159 --> 01:19:16,239
or reports if you will, to cover otherwise explainable phenomenal

1431
01:19:16,319 --> 01:19:19,079
i e. You know, the SR seventy one or the

1432
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,880
one seventeen flights well, let's let them call it's called

1433
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,079
a UFO, and we'll send them down that mousehole, because

1434
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:28,520
they'll never figure out that it's actually a military plane.

1435
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:32,399
So saying or promoting or allowing it to be promoted

1436
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,079
to some extent, whether it's correct or not, that it's

1437
01:19:35,359 --> 01:19:40,359
extraterrestrial and nature just covers the tracks of it's really not.

1438
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,039
It's you know, it's the US military doing black ops

1439
01:19:43,079 --> 01:19:46,920
on some type of intervention or research. Is that a

1440
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:48,279
reasonable statement to make it?

1441
01:19:48,359 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1442
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:49,279
Speaker 7: I think so.

1443
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,039
Speaker 6: And also I think my illustration of you know, the

1444
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,560
version one point zero yes, not working well because the

1445
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:57,760
animals would be stolen.

1446
01:19:58,319 --> 01:20:02,239
Speaker 7: No, that generates you know, Grand Dept. Report to the

1447
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:03,279
county sheriff.

1448
01:20:03,039 --> 01:20:06,359
Speaker 10: And into local authorities, and so you know, you you

1449
01:20:06,399 --> 01:20:09,039
start to create a mass of paper trails and stuff,

1450
01:20:09,079 --> 01:20:14,880
and and you know, it just doesn't work if if

1451
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:16,920
you don't if you take the animal.

1452
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 11: So if you leave the animal behind, you have the

1453
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,399
plausible deniability, uh of the animal being just you know,

1454
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,680
scavenge or whatever. And you know people people just you know,

1455
01:20:27,039 --> 01:20:30,359
dismiss it as as being misidentified scavenger action.

1456
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:35,159
Speaker 7: Uh So, So anyway, yeah, is my mic kind of weird.

1457
01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:41,359
Speaker 1: Now yeah, yeah, it's a major change. Not really, No,

1458
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:42,840
it sounds like it's switched over.

1459
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:44,079
Speaker 7: Oh I accidentally.

1460
01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: Somehow there you go.

1461
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 6: How's that that'll do it? Yes, cable, I got to

1462
01:20:52,039 --> 01:20:56,239
replace here. So anyway, it's it's the whole plausible deniability element.

1463
01:20:56,279 --> 01:20:59,640
That's Uh, I think that. I think you know, if

1464
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,199
if if you leave the animal there, then you have

1465
01:21:02,239 --> 01:21:06,880
that that plausible deniability element, and plus by leaving the

1466
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,279
animal there, look what you're doing. You're sending a signal.

1467
01:21:09,319 --> 01:21:12,199
You're sending a signal to law enforcement. You're sending a

1468
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:16,800
signal to the ranching community. These areas in the United

1469
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:20,439
States where these cases tend to cluster, I think the

1470
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:23,920
most is where you have the most militant, well armed,

1471
01:21:24,279 --> 01:21:28,640
patriot type of communities. You have a lot of hunters

1472
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,680
that live in these areas. Chronic wasting disease tends to

1473
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,439
crop up in areas where you have more militia groups,

1474
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:38,960
more gun toting patriots.

1475
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 7: Let's say that.

1476
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:45,680
Speaker 6: Listen to Steve Quail and Alex Jones and whatever. So

1477
01:21:46,199 --> 01:21:48,760
you know, you're you're also kind of subtly sending a

1478
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:50,439
message of impunity.

1479
01:21:51,039 --> 01:21:53,319
Speaker 7: Uh, You're you're showing.

1480
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 6: That that these that these ranchers in law enforcement concerns

1481
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:03,159
are impotent, that they don't really have any recourse, they

1482
01:22:03,159 --> 01:22:07,439
can't really do much, and so you're there's a there's

1483
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:11,239
societal control going on. And another thing too that I've

1484
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:14,039
kind of been toying around with that nobody else really

1485
01:22:14,079 --> 01:22:17,800
has ever mentioned is the fact that many of these

1486
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,520
areas of high incidents in the seventies, all these ranchers

1487
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,840
are out of business now. Seventy to eighty percent of

1488
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,800
ranches that were in business in nineteen seventy five at

1489
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:31,600
the height of cattle in this country. We had more

1490
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:35,119
cattle in this country, and Americans ate more beef per

1491
01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:38,079
person in nineteen seventy five than any other time before.

1492
01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:42,199
Since that was the peak, seventy to eighty percent of

1493
01:22:42,239 --> 01:22:45,039
these ranches are no longer in business. Instead, you have

1494
01:22:45,119 --> 01:22:49,399
these giant agro concerns in huge feed lots. So you

1495
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:53,800
know there could be a political element to this, too

1496
01:22:54,079 --> 01:22:58,920
large ranch concerns possibly driving other smaller ranches out of business.

1497
01:23:00,119 --> 01:23:02,600
This is an element that I have some pretty good

1498
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,520
information to back up this particular scenario in one or two.

1499
01:23:07,239 --> 01:23:08,319
Speaker 7: Pretty good examples.

1500
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:13,039
Speaker 6: So you know there's hey, a big rich rancher trying

1501
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:15,359
to scare away some of the smaller ranchers and buy

1502
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:17,960
them out. Hey, go down, figure out a way to

1503
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,600
mutilate some cattle, you know, put a little pressure on them,

1504
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,840
get them to you know, give them a price. You know, hey,

1505
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:29,399
let me buy up your your land. You're losing money.

1506
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:32,359
There's more than just a little bit evidence to support

1507
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:35,159
that particular theory as well, so you know, you have

1508
01:23:35,199 --> 01:23:39,079
a very it's a complicated scenario. Once you have an

1509
01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:42,880
effective way of scaring people, you know, other concerns, you know,

1510
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,880
other groups or individuals might glom onto that and say, hey,

1511
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:47,800
this works for them, so it might maybe it'll work

1512
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:50,319
for us too. You know, there's a lot that you

1513
01:23:50,359 --> 01:23:56,399
can determine from taking soft tissue organs from livestock. It's

1514
01:23:56,640 --> 01:24:01,000
it's you know, a pretty there's no one size fits

1515
01:24:01,039 --> 01:24:05,079
all you know, rationale for doing that. There's several things

1516
01:24:05,079 --> 01:24:08,720
that you can accomplish with that that have to do

1517
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:13,119
with monitoring the environment, either for medical or scientific purposes.

1518
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:17,880
You know, putting social and political pressure on the ranching

1519
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:23,279
community and and scaring people basically and keeping them under

1520
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:27,680
the you know, the thumb of the political concerns that

1521
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,079
might be vying for power or whatever. So you know,

1522
01:24:31,119 --> 01:24:34,199
it's it gets complicated. And that's why the book is

1523
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:37,199
so in depth, because I try to trace back each

1524
01:24:37,239 --> 01:24:40,560
of these theories back to when they began and really

1525
01:24:41,039 --> 01:24:43,920
look at how these memes within the culture have unfolded

1526
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:45,640
and glommed onto one another.

1527
01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,399
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and without telling the listener what to

1528
01:24:50,079 --> 01:24:52,880
believe or not believe, because that's not how we operate.

1529
01:24:53,319 --> 01:24:57,000
But in terms of the control mechanism caused by the

1530
01:24:57,039 --> 01:25:01,319
fear factor and government's utilization of fear and will take

1531
01:25:01,359 --> 01:25:04,640
care of you. Look at what's happening in this country

1532
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:08,960
since nine to eleven, from the underwear bomber to the anthrax.

1533
01:25:11,319 --> 01:25:14,680
That's a very effective method to control the population or

1534
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:18,560
at least move the mindset in one direction or the other.

1535
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,279
So I think that it's not hard for a reasonable

1536
01:25:22,319 --> 01:25:26,680
person to look at objectively, look at how how government

1537
01:25:27,279 --> 01:25:31,199
and corporations, you know, and I would ask the listener

1538
01:25:31,279 --> 01:25:35,520
to at least accept this at those levels of multimillions

1539
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:39,880
and billions of dollars on the table, don't think that

1540
01:25:40,039 --> 01:25:44,279
anything is off the table in terms of you know,

1541
01:25:44,359 --> 01:25:47,800
what corporations are willing to do. As creepy as it sounds,

1542
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,720
as unbelievable as it sounds, you know, the Karen Silkwoods

1543
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:56,199
of this world can our testaments to everyone is expendable

1544
01:25:56,319 --> 01:25:58,800
and nothing is off the table. So as bizarre as

1545
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:04,319
it might sound that we're using cattle mutilation or livestock

1546
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:08,720
mutilation as a control mechanism or as a as a

1547
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:13,920
motive or an operational procedure to push small ranchers out

1548
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:18,079
and allow factory farming, if you will, factory ranching to

1549
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:21,439
be more precise, to be put into place. I wouldn't

1550
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,439
put anything past multinationals. And all we have to do

1551
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,199
is look at the poster child for doing what's right

1552
01:26:27,239 --> 01:26:30,199
for the stockholders and wrong for the world. Go take

1553
01:26:30,239 --> 01:26:32,159
a look at Monsanto and what they've done, and the

1554
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:34,960
and the and the grain farmers they've put out of

1555
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:41,159
business through through lawsuits about patent infringements and nonsense like that.

1556
01:26:41,359 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 6: Just run and look at all the ex Monsanto vice

1557
01:26:43,920 --> 01:26:46,199
presidents that are on the uh you know, that work

1558
01:26:46,279 --> 01:26:47,359
for the FDA now.

1559
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 1: Exactly revolving door. I just watched a PBS special that

1560
01:26:52,239 --> 01:27:00,000
just outlined in detail the fact that that former corporate

1561
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:05,000
all right, excuse me, former uh position holders in the

1562
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,119
federal government are being offered bonuses if they'll come and

1563
01:27:08,159 --> 01:27:12,800
work for the Monsanto's, the multinationals, the ges, and whoever

1564
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:16,439
might want to so. So it's it's outward and above

1565
01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:21,159
the board and documented that the revolving door is such

1566
01:27:21,159 --> 01:27:24,399
a tight knit group anymore that nobody even tries to

1567
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,279
hide it. And you know it has become in the

1568
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:32,159
we have this country and most other countries have allowed

1569
01:27:32,239 --> 01:27:37,359
multinationals to just usurp a governmental sovereignty. We are, truly,

1570
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:42,000
by the literal definition and not the hysterical connotation. We

1571
01:27:42,039 --> 01:27:48,279
are we are in a fascist state on many levels.

1572
01:27:48,359 --> 01:27:50,920
I know I sound like Alex Jones now, but forgive me,

1573
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,399
but but think about the leverage that billions of dollars

1574
01:27:54,399 --> 01:27:56,720
buy is just as much as the leverage and the

1575
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:01,359
control that billions of dollars in black budget operations can purchase.

1576
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,319
And you can understand that it's not hard to achieve

1577
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:08,159
goals that perhaps are not ethical and fair on the surface.

1578
01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:10,640
I will, I will cease and desist continue on with

1579
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:11,119
your story.

1580
01:28:11,159 --> 01:28:14,159
Speaker 6: No, that's I absolutely agree. I couldn't have set it

1581
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:17,399
better myself. You know, I think one thing that should

1582
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:21,279
always be at the forefront of our conversation when it

1583
01:28:21,319 --> 01:28:25,439
comes to cattle and beef is beef is the largest

1584
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:30,039
income producing segment of agriculture. Okay, let's and the beef

1585
01:28:30,119 --> 01:28:34,800
lobby is the most powerful lobby in this country that

1586
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:38,520
you will never hear anything about. And if you look

1587
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,239
back at the efforts by the federal government back when

1588
01:28:42,279 --> 01:28:45,079
we really had a you know, a government that really

1589
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:48,319
was concerned about the welfare of its citizens, back in

1590
01:28:48,359 --> 01:28:51,880
the eighteen nineties, when they first proposed the Sherman Anti

1591
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:57,159
Trust as yeah, it was not. It was not proposed

1592
01:28:57,159 --> 01:29:00,640
initially to break up the railroads, you know, and Carnegie

1593
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:04,279
Steel and Standard Oil. It was done to break up

1594
01:29:04,319 --> 01:29:07,239
the beef trust. And the beef trust was so powerful

1595
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:12,000
it took the the outcry from the public over the

1596
01:29:12,039 --> 01:29:17,239
publication of Upton Sinclair's book The Jungle to really expose

1597
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:22,279
the incredibly horrific working conditions within the meat packing industry

1598
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:27,079
around Chicago and in the stockyards, and it took the

1599
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,840
absolute outcry to politicians to do something about it. It

1600
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,399
took twelve years to get the legislation passed, but it

1601
01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:39,720
was eventually passed. Now, the other really good. Glaring example

1602
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,520
of the power of the meat industry would be Oprah

1603
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:46,960
Winfrey blurting out I'll never eat another hamburger again, and

1604
01:29:47,159 --> 01:29:50,000
was instantly slapped with a two billion dollar lawsuit. I

1605
01:29:50,039 --> 01:29:54,079
mean the following day, I think, and it took her

1606
01:29:54,119 --> 01:29:58,199
a million dollars to beat it. She did win the lawsuit.

1607
01:29:59,199 --> 01:30:02,720
But know that's why I say, I eat beef. I

1608
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:07,560
love beef. Beef is good, it tastes great. They're as

1609
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:12,039
rare as you dare. I'm a beef eater. I love it,

1610
01:30:12,159 --> 01:30:14,880
you know, cold and blue in the middle. No, I

1611
01:30:14,960 --> 01:30:17,520
eat beef, and I'll continue to beef. But I'm able

1612
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:20,520
to look down the hill at the herd that you

1613
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:24,840
know it gets rendered, you know locally. I will not

1614
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:30,880
eat processed beef. A single Hammiger at McDonald's. McDonald's admits

1615
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:32,760
could have up to one hundred different animals and that

1616
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:34,039
one Patty.

1617
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,079
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

1618
01:30:36,359 --> 01:30:38,399
Speaker 6: Some people have come up with the figure of up

1619
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:43,279
to a thousand animals could be represented in a single

1620
01:30:43,319 --> 01:30:46,439
McDonald's hambiger. But but all this is changing. Like I said,

1621
01:30:46,479 --> 01:30:49,520
Taco Bell is going all natural. Carls Junior has the

1622
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:54,159
first fast food all natural antibiotic, steroid, you know, growth

1623
01:30:54,159 --> 01:31:00,880
hormone or fed You know, all these companies are reading

1624
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:03,399
the writing on the wall. People are are there's there's,

1625
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,359
dividends are plunging, the stock stock is going down. People

1626
01:31:07,399 --> 01:31:10,760
are not eating as much processed of food, not eating this.

1627
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 4: They've also taken a big hit though, too, because a

1628
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:15,479
lot of the news reports in recent years in the

1629
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:19,600
fast food industry talking about things like pink slime. You

1630
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:23,560
know that that alone really threw them for a loop

1631
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:25,920
and really turned a lot of people off the fast

1632
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,079
food industry and they had to recover from that.

1633
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:30,840
Speaker 1: I can, I can I relate it just to put

1634
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:32,760
it in context for the listeners. I want to relate

1635
01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:36,279
a true story real quick. And I think that anybody

1636
01:31:36,279 --> 01:31:39,560
out there listening who has has kids or family that

1637
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:41,960
they care about, and I and this goes back to

1638
01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:45,600
being able to locally source your food and know that

1639
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:47,560
the guy down the road with the farm stand is

1640
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:49,720
the guy you're buying your vegetables from. They're not truck

1641
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:53,239
rightman coming in from you know, Mexico, from a DDT

1642
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:55,720
farm down there. And I want and I covered the

1643
01:31:56,079 --> 01:31:58,239
American agriculture movement when I was out there as a

1644
01:31:58,319 --> 01:32:00,680
journalist for them, and I saw a lot of stuff

1645
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,720
that make your head spin backwards. But I'm in I'm

1646
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,199
doing a job over last not last March, the March

1647
01:32:07,239 --> 01:32:09,800
before in Manchester, England, and I have to tell you,

1648
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:11,880
if you've ever been to England, God bless them. I'm

1649
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,800
English at heart too. But the food is every bit

1650
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,119
as bad as what they say it is. And after

1651
01:32:17,159 --> 01:32:20,439
about four or five days of eating you know, pea

1652
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:23,079
soup for breakfast and all kinds of bizarre stuff, I

1653
01:32:23,399 --> 01:32:26,680
said to oh, yeah, really, it's like I asked for

1654
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:28,520
a salad one night in the pub when I got

1655
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,119
in there, and they were like, what do you mean

1656
01:32:30,159 --> 01:32:32,239
a salad? They didn't even know what it was. You

1657
01:32:32,279 --> 01:32:34,520
mean greens? And I was like, oh man, this is

1658
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:36,920
not good. And I wonder everybody drinks and place, you

1659
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:40,960
know plays rugby over there football anyway where I finally

1660
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,279
found in a big mall a Burger King and I

1661
01:32:43,279 --> 01:32:45,279
told the guy from Holland that I was with, I said,

1662
01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:47,199
go in here, I'm going to get a hamburger. I'm

1663
01:32:47,239 --> 01:32:50,199
starving for some real food. As we're driving into the

1664
01:32:50,239 --> 01:32:54,920
two Park on the BBC Radio, the news story breaks

1665
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,640
that they found out that the burger Kings in England

1666
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:01,079
were selling horse meat that there was illegally brought in

1667
01:33:01,159 --> 01:33:04,840
through Ireland. I almost threw up in the car. He goes, hey,

1668
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:06,800
hear what they're saying about Burger. I get out of here.

1669
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,600
We can't eat here. Well, by the end of that week,

1670
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,159
this is the God's honest truth. Go back and check

1671
01:33:12,199 --> 01:33:14,159
it out for yourself. It was March of the year

1672
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:16,840
before left. Now it's spread. They're selling it, the horse

1673
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:21,039
meat throughout all the supermarket chains. It's a major scandal.

1674
01:33:21,399 --> 01:33:24,399
Some Irish company was bringing the horse meat in and

1675
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:26,600
of course they're saying, wait a minute, it's a delicacy

1676
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:28,199
in France. They don't care about it.

1677
01:33:28,439 --> 01:33:28,640
Speaker 2: You know.

1678
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:31,039
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, but you're telling people it's beef and

1679
01:33:31,039 --> 01:33:34,560
it's got you know, you could see that the jockeys,

1680
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:37,640
you know, marking in the hamburgers like you give me

1681
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:40,359
a break. So the point of all this is, though,

1682
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:43,840
goes back to factory how and Chris, this is a

1683
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:48,640
major part of your concern and it's a side bar

1684
01:33:49,079 --> 01:33:51,600
that I think needs a lot of attention. You know,

1685
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:54,560
what are we doing to these animals in order to

1686
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:59,439
consume food, and your concern with that is a part

1687
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:02,239
of this story that needs to be told because we're

1688
01:34:02,279 --> 01:34:04,640
all human beings and I think there's a way to

1689
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:07,680
consume enough food to live on and do it in

1690
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:10,239
a humane fashion. I never thought I would say things

1691
01:34:10,279 --> 01:34:12,239
like that, but I'll tell you, once you've been to

1692
01:34:12,279 --> 01:34:15,680
these factory slaughter houses like I have, you have a

1693
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,840
different view on what's going on here. I only tell

1694
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:22,319
you a real quick funny aside. You know the whole tuna.

1695
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:25,680
Say you know dolphin safe tuna and all that. You know,

1696
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,359
who gives a damn about the poor tuna that are

1697
01:34:28,399 --> 01:34:31,960
getting slaughtered by the millions? Like I go into restaurants

1698
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:33,880
and I embarrass my family. I say, well, I want

1699
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,760
to have a dolphin safe tuna. Well, I also want

1700
01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:40,079
to have tuna safe dolphin Okay, so I don't want

1701
01:34:40,079 --> 01:34:43,760
any tuna being slaughtered. Getting me that mahi mahi. I mean,

1702
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:47,239
what difference does it make. It's okay to slaughter small fish,

1703
01:34:47,279 --> 01:34:49,680
but big fish we can't slaughter. It's okay to you know,

1704
01:34:50,399 --> 01:34:51,159
the whole it.

1705
01:34:51,199 --> 01:34:54,680
Speaker 6: Doesn't It doesn't matter, Bruce, We're radiating all the fish

1706
01:34:55,159 --> 01:34:56,680
exactly anyway.

1707
01:34:56,960 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: Thank you. By the way, was the last time you

1708
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:00,920
saw a story about fukushim in the in the Yeah,

1709
01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:06,720
really that's right. Season one thirty seven makes you now

1710
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:08,840
sushi sushi.

1711
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 6: Buyers are going with Geiger counters.

1712
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 1: Now, well, I have, having served in the coast Guard.

1713
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:15,079
You know, some guys up and catch a can and

1714
01:35:15,159 --> 01:35:18,359
they said that the packing the packing plants now the

1715
01:35:18,399 --> 01:35:20,640
guys are standing there with Geiger counters when they come

1716
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:22,560
to unload their catch, and if they are more than

1717
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,520
thirty miles off and they have background radiation, that they

1718
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:27,920
won't accept the fish. As a matter of fact, he

1719
01:35:28,039 --> 01:35:32,159
told me that the EU has already banned Pacific fish

1720
01:35:32,359 --> 01:35:36,159
fish from the EU, and I don't I haven't been

1721
01:35:36,199 --> 01:35:38,960
able to verify that, but he said, that's that's a

1722
01:35:39,279 --> 01:35:41,359
major hit, he said this year. And I have a

1723
01:35:41,359 --> 01:35:44,800
friend who I just saw on two days ago who

1724
01:35:44,840 --> 01:35:48,279
said that he's heading up for the season here in July,

1725
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:52,439
and he said, there's major repercussions already because because they're

1726
01:35:52,479 --> 01:35:55,079
not stopping it. Three thousand tons of polluted waters going

1727
01:35:55,119 --> 01:35:58,399
in the Pacific every day. Boys, nobody's stopping it. So anyway,

1728
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:00,119
I mean to get you off, but talk to a

1729
01:36:00,119 --> 01:36:03,800
about the unbelievable treatment that we you know, when we

1730
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:07,399
see it in the starrofoam pack wrapped that goes on

1731
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:08,720
in these factory farms.

1732
01:36:09,119 --> 01:36:12,840
Speaker 6: It's you know, a head of livestock is slaughtered every second,

1733
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:15,720
twenty four hours a day in this country, every second

1734
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:18,800
of every minute of every hour. Some of these plants

1735
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,880
can render up to four hundred animals an hour in

1736
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:26,880
a single plant. The animals are crammed together in the

1737
01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:32,520
most unbelievably unsanitary conditions. You have tens and tens and

1738
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:37,800
tens of thousands of animals waiting around and urine and feces.

1739
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:41,760
In order to get them, you know, protect them from

1740
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:44,600
all the obvious bacteria they have to you know, pump

1741
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:49,439
them full of antibiotics, which you know, I mean, if

1742
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,800
you look at the amount of antibiotics used in this country,

1743
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:54,520
eighty percent of them going to cattle to protect them

1744
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:57,720
from these feedlock conditions. And then of course to get

1745
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:01,880
them out of there quicker. Instead of them eating grass

1746
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:06,479
like their bodies are designed to assimilate grass, they pump

1747
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,119
them full of up to seventeen hundred pounds of grain

1748
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:12,239
in order to gain four hundred pounds of weight, and

1749
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:14,279
then they pump them full of growth hormones so they'll

1750
01:37:14,279 --> 01:37:16,079
grow quicker, so they can get them out of this

1751
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:20,119
unsanitary conditions and slaughter them quicker. So you have this, this,

1752
01:37:20,399 --> 01:37:29,560
this this nasty kind of self perpetuating morass of unhealthy conditions,

1753
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:32,439
get trying to get them out by growth hormones, protecting

1754
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:35,359
them with antibiotics, and of course this all goes into

1755
01:37:35,399 --> 01:37:37,840
the meat. And we're wondering why nine year old girls

1756
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,359
are going into puberty.

1757
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:42,560
Speaker 7: You know, it's just it's it's horrific.

1758
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:48,199
Speaker 6: And you know, if just one fit fact and factoid

1759
01:37:48,199 --> 01:37:53,039
that constantly is a mind blower. If we took just

1760
01:37:53,079 --> 01:37:56,520
the grain that we feed cattle in this country, if

1761
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:59,399
we took that grain and sped it around the world

1762
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,359
to feed starving people, the two billions starving people on

1763
01:38:02,399 --> 01:38:05,159
the planet, there would be no starving people on the planet.

1764
01:38:06,079 --> 01:38:10,239
Speaker 1: The water consumption, it's the water consumption. It's just astronomical to.

1765
01:38:10,199 --> 01:38:13,800
Speaker 6: Have at And they are the largest polluters of fresh water.

1766
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:16,960
Cattle by far the largest natural polluters of fresh water.

1767
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:22,279
They're the second largest producer of ozone, depleting gases colsberper

1768
01:38:22,399 --> 01:38:26,359
fart every two minutes and and release billions of tons

1769
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:30,640
of methane into the atmosphere, which is a ozone depleting gas.

1770
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:33,880
Cattle being stuck in one spot and not being able

1771
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:36,199
to move across the environment is the largest source of

1772
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:37,920
the creation of deserts.

1773
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:38,720
Speaker 11: Uh.

1774
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:43,239
Speaker 6: The single largest reason that we're burning down the rainforest

1775
01:38:43,359 --> 01:38:45,159
is to make room for more cattle. I mean, I

1776
01:38:45,199 --> 01:38:47,640
could go on and on and on. Cattle are very

1777
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:51,720
detrimental to the environment when they're raised in the in

1778
01:38:52,079 --> 01:38:57,560
the industrialized way that they are with big agro. They

1779
01:38:57,399 --> 01:38:59,479
they're actually very good for the environment if you allow

1780
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:01,199
them to move move across the environment.

1781
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 1: I mean, for for.

1782
01:39:03,199 --> 01:39:06,079
Speaker 6: Thousands of years, buffalo but you know, sixty seventy million

1783
01:39:06,119 --> 01:39:09,119
buffalo moved across the Great Plains and and and created

1784
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:11,399
one of the most fertile bread baskets in the world.

1785
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 5: Uh.

1786
01:39:12,399 --> 01:39:14,800
Speaker 6: With their with their magratory routes, and in the way

1787
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:19,239
that they they're they're they're done with you know, helps

1788
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:24,279
fertilize the soil and and uh. And you know, the

1789
01:39:24,279 --> 01:39:26,479
the action of the of the of the hoofs would

1790
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,760
till the soil and aerate it. I mean, if you

1791
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:31,560
stick them all in one place, I don't know. I'm

1792
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,800
sure many of your listeners have been downwind of a

1793
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:35,439
feed lot.

1794
01:39:37,079 --> 01:39:40,039
Speaker 1: You can spell them forty forty miles away away. It's

1795
01:39:40,159 --> 01:39:43,159
unbelievable how far away you can. What the hell has

1796
01:39:43,199 --> 01:39:45,920
that smelled? You take some place that.

1797
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:47,600
Speaker 7: The wind switches, Oh my good.

1798
01:39:48,399 --> 01:39:50,640
Speaker 1: And and I'll tell you if you think that's bad,

1799
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:52,880
don't go down to Maryland and go and see what

1800
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:55,680
they do with chickens, because that'll make your eyeballs follow

1801
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:59,399
your head. Or pig farms. Chickens they don't, can't even

1802
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:03,520
stand up. They go to six pounds, where in natural

1803
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,199
state they would have been a pound and a half.

1804
01:40:05,239 --> 01:40:07,960
They're so nooked up it's you have to wear rubber

1805
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:10,039
gloves when you when you're throwing them in the fryer.

1806
01:40:10,119 --> 01:40:13,880
It's unbelievable. The genetic mutations that have been dye.

1807
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:15,399
Speaker 7: You can't even call them chickens anymore.

1808
01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:17,600
Speaker 1: Now. They don't look like he's a chicken picker in

1809
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:18,199
high school.

1810
01:40:18,239 --> 01:40:21,840
Speaker 6: Every three months I go out and and you know,

1811
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:24,399
get four chickens per hand, stuff them in the crates

1812
01:40:24,399 --> 01:40:28,039
on the semi And you know, I've I've been like you,

1813
01:40:28,119 --> 01:40:31,239
I've I've done my my due diligence and gone and

1814
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:36,600
investigated factory farming. I've been up close and personal, uh

1815
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:41,239
to how these animals are raised, processed and uh and

1816
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:45,039
brought to that little styrofoam container and plastic grabbed in

1817
01:40:45,079 --> 01:40:48,039
a supermarket near you. I think if every kid in

1818
01:40:48,119 --> 01:40:51,479
this country, or on the planet for that matter, at

1819
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:53,760
least in the Western world, went through a three day

1820
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:57,119
course that taught them exactly what happens to an animal

1821
01:40:57,159 --> 01:41:02,039
from the birth canal to the styrophone, we would immediately

1822
01:41:02,119 --> 01:41:06,920
have a lot less meat eaters in this country. It's

1823
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:11,359
pretty horrific what goes on and how how this is

1824
01:41:11,359 --> 01:41:15,359
impacting human health. And it's it's a huge it's a

1825
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:19,720
huge health you know, emerging health crisis. I think in

1826
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,560
this country. Of course, we haven't even started talking about

1827
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:23,520
preon disease.

1828
01:41:24,399 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 1: We haven't start.

1829
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:29,119
Speaker 6: Talking about mad cow. You know, it just it goes

1830
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:31,720
from bad to worse. You know, you mentioned the anthrax

1831
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,159
attacks before. Where does where's anthrax come from?

1832
01:41:34,199 --> 01:41:34,359
Speaker 8: You know?

1833
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:37,520
Speaker 1: Thank you ever heard of scabies? Folks?

1834
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:37,680
Speaker 6: Do you?

1835
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean, do you understand? You know, how about sixteen

1836
01:41:41,079 --> 01:41:44,760
million head of cattle being burned in England because they

1837
01:41:45,119 --> 01:41:46,680
you know, the breakout.

1838
01:41:46,279 --> 01:41:47,840
Speaker 7: Of five but who's counting.

1839
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did I say sixteen millionaire get sixteen million

1840
01:41:51,039 --> 01:41:52,560
pounds or something? Well?

1841
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:57,239
Speaker 7: What a probably tons? But but again who's counting.

1842
01:41:58,079 --> 01:41:58,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1843
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 6: Between the outbreak of mac cow disease in eighty six

1844
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:05,920
that ran rampant through the UK cattle herds for ten

1845
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:10,119
years and then the ensuing hoof and mouth disease, four

1846
01:42:10,159 --> 01:42:13,479
point five million cal every head of livestock in the

1847
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:20,079
United Kingdom was killed and cremated to eradicate foot and

1848
01:42:20,159 --> 01:42:23,359
mouth disease and mad cow disease. And at the time

1849
01:42:23,399 --> 01:42:27,079
they didn't realize that the prions, the active ingredient that

1850
01:42:27,239 --> 01:42:30,439
brings you mad cow disease, can survive in the bonash.

1851
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:34,399
And there's still some question where all that bonash ended up.

1852
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:35,800
Probably in fertilizer.

1853
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:40,760
Speaker 1: Yep. Well, let's go back to the what I understand

1854
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:45,000
and correct me if I'm wrong. But the as was

1855
01:42:45,159 --> 01:42:49,800
proven through a Nobel Prize winning scientist who worked with

1856
01:42:49,800 --> 01:42:54,199
one of the last cannibalistic tribes in Papua New Guinea

1857
01:42:54,279 --> 01:43:00,640
improved in over a generation that he could stop the

1858
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:06,720
the onset of what was Alzheimer's and and and and

1859
01:43:07,119 --> 01:43:11,880
uh uh Krusch filed Yakob's disease and.

1860
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:16,159
Speaker 6: You move it was it Peru crew was the disease

1861
01:43:16,199 --> 01:43:18,720
in New Guinea in New Guinea, which is the same

1862
01:43:18,720 --> 01:43:21,439
as Koutzveeld documents disease, which is a variant of it.

1863
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 1: Variant of it. Right. But anyway, the principle here is

1864
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:27,560
that when you take animal protein and feed it to

1865
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:31,479
itself a a ka. Cannibalism, which is what pre Purina

1866
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:34,920
and some of the large grain dealers and livestock feeders

1867
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:38,840
were doing after World War Two, that that we initiated

1868
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:40,680
the onset. And then there was always the argument that

1869
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:44,479
couldn't change it, couldn't cross the species barrier. Well, that

1870
01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:46,800
guy kind of got thrown out the window when they

1871
01:43:46,840 --> 01:43:48,840
proved that it could, but nobody wanted to admit it.

1872
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:51,960
So correct me if I'm wrong, Chris, You've done a

1873
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:54,039
lot more research in the me. But I've done a

1874
01:43:54,039 --> 01:43:56,479
lot of work with pharmaceuticals and a lot of pharmaceutical

1875
01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:03,439
companies that have h you know, veterinary medicine components to them. Uh.

1876
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:06,039
And this is the dirty little secret that we kind

1877
01:44:06,039 --> 01:44:08,840
of made the problem ourselves to a great extent.

1878
01:44:09,399 --> 01:44:13,199
Speaker 6: Uh. Yeah, And and one one of the more alarming statistics.

1879
01:44:13,199 --> 01:44:15,479
I don't want to get two alarmists here, but but

1880
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:21,079
in England they did a study and they they've revised

1881
01:44:21,119 --> 01:44:25,119
their numbers for the the outbreak of kootzveeld Dacob's disease

1882
01:44:25,159 --> 01:44:28,840
or mad cow disease in humans. It used to be, uh,

1883
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:33,399
there'll be a spontaneous case in nature just you know,

1884
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:36,880
one in a million people was the figure for many years.

1885
01:44:37,279 --> 01:44:40,039
That was you'll consider it to be accurate by the

1886
01:44:40,079 --> 01:44:43,920
medical community. You know, if if you were that unlucky

1887
01:44:44,039 --> 01:44:49,000
millionth person, you spontaneously you know, had kutzveild Jacob's disease,

1888
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:52,439
which is one hundred percent fatal. It's peon's misfold of

1889
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:56,079
proteins that that that can cause other proteins to misfold.

1890
01:44:56,239 --> 01:44:59,439
There's a thousand times smaller than the smallest virus, which is,

1891
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:03,039
you know, the smallest life form. You can't really kill them,

1892
01:45:03,039 --> 01:45:05,239
you can only kind of turn them off, but it

1893
01:45:05,279 --> 01:45:11,239
takes up to three thousand degrees. Once these preons start misfolding,

1894
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:15,840
they literally turn your brain tissue and nerve nerve tissue

1895
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:21,119
basically into like Swiss cheese. So interrupts synaptic function. You

1896
01:45:21,199 --> 01:45:24,039
forget to, you know, to breathe, You forget to you know,

1897
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:29,359
you know, your autonomic and metabolic processes or are compromised

1898
01:45:29,359 --> 01:45:32,279
and you usually die of pneumonia or you know, some

1899
01:45:32,319 --> 01:45:35,760
sort of infection. It makes AIDS look like a hiccup

1900
01:45:36,479 --> 01:45:38,920
in terms of its one hundred percent fatality. It has

1901
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:43,520
up to a forty year incubation period. What they have

1902
01:45:43,720 --> 01:45:47,439
found out now in England is that instead of one

1903
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:52,399
in a million people developing this disease, there was one

1904
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:55,159
study that said as many as one in two hundred

1905
01:45:55,239 --> 01:46:00,479
people now in England are developing dementia type diseases, which

1906
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:04,439
which include Kopsfeld Dakum's disease, and that that that's that's

1907
01:46:04,479 --> 01:46:09,399
a really that's a catastrophic figure and it's a again

1908
01:46:09,479 --> 01:46:12,359
it's an emerging health crisis that we haven't we haven't

1909
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:16,319
seen very much UH coverage in the media about because

1910
01:46:16,319 --> 01:46:18,960
of the political clout that the ago you know, the

1911
01:46:19,079 --> 01:46:22,520
largest income producing segment of agriculture has on the media.

1912
01:46:23,359 --> 01:46:27,319
And we're seeing a two thousand increase in the last

1913
01:46:27,319 --> 01:46:31,479
twenty years of dementia type deaths in humans. In other words,

1914
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:36,319
people that you know, UH have dementia type symptoms that

1915
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:41,319
may mirror that may look like Alzheimer's, but it's not Alzheimer's,

1916
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:45,640
and you know, Alzheimer's can be diagnosed. It's it's a

1917
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:49,760
plaque that builds up in the brain. However, there are

1918
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:52,840
a lot of deaths that are not Alzheimer's that are

1919
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:57,000
demensia type deaths. People you know, going into uh, into

1920
01:46:57,039 --> 01:47:00,479
these vegetative states and and then forgetting you know, and

1921
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:06,079
just dying by invasive infections and other things. We've seen

1922
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:10,920
a two thousand increase in these deaths. And all dementia

1923
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:13,279
deaths are not autopsy.

1924
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:16,560
Speaker 1: No, And that's the point there that they don't report it.

1925
01:47:17,199 --> 01:47:20,319
Speaker 6: They don't really know what is actually killing people that

1926
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:24,039
die from dementia like symptoms. Some of these people are

1927
01:47:24,119 --> 01:47:27,960
dying of Alzheimer's, and we're seeing a remarkable increase in

1928
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,399
alzheimer deaths as well. But we there may be some

1929
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:34,279
sort of tie in with with these types of deaths

1930
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:38,920
and uh, some form of of you know, this mad

1931
01:47:39,039 --> 01:47:41,960
cout disease and preon disease. So you know, I don't

1932
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:43,680
know enough about the science. This is one of the

1933
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,760
areas that I'm really working diligently at becoming up to

1934
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:49,800
speed on I have a couple of people that that

1935
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,159
I've been in contact with that are working in the

1936
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:58,000
medical community, doctors who are working with Alzheimer cases and

1937
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:01,079
and doing Alzheimer's research. I really want to become more

1938
01:48:01,159 --> 01:48:03,359
up to speed in this area. I don't want to

1939
01:48:03,479 --> 01:48:08,479
miss misspeak about some of these desks, but there is

1940
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:11,479
I can say with all confidence that we are seeing

1941
01:48:11,199 --> 01:48:15,600
a very alarming increase in the number of dementia deaths,

1942
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:18,319
which are the types of symptoms that one would expect

1943
01:48:18,359 --> 01:48:22,439
from from you know, Kutsfield, jackober mad cow disease in humans.

1944
01:48:24,199 --> 01:48:28,880
Speaker 1: So you could understand tying it back into your book,

1945
01:48:29,079 --> 01:48:33,159
that there's a there's a very real need to track

1946
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:38,079
any type of abnormalities that are associated with our consumption

1947
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:39,880
of livestock.

1948
01:48:40,159 --> 01:48:45,039
Speaker 6: Absolutely absolutely change and the first you know, and to

1949
01:48:45,119 --> 01:48:48,279
make it even more sinister, you know this this whole

1950
01:48:48,319 --> 01:48:51,359
idea of you. You mentioned Daniel Guchek, who was the

1951
01:48:51,399 --> 01:48:54,359
Nobel Prize winner for medicine in nineteen seventy six. He

1952
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:57,960
was the first one to identify kuru, which was in

1953
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:01,520
the brains of people that the brains of their relatives

1954
01:49:01,520 --> 01:49:05,039
who died in Papula New Guinea, in this very primitive

1955
01:49:05,079 --> 01:49:08,520
tribe of the for A people in Papua New Guinea,

1956
01:49:09,119 --> 01:49:12,159
when grandfather would die, they would have a ritual they

1957
01:49:12,159 --> 01:49:15,840
would eat his brain and it they think that that

1958
01:49:16,039 --> 01:49:18,880
is what created these outbreaks of kuru in the forties,

1959
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:22,319
fifties and sixties. Well, he identified this. He was kind

1960
01:49:22,359 --> 01:49:24,600
of like a medical James Bond. He went around looking

1961
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:28,880
for exotic pathogens and stuff around the world. And according

1962
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:33,000
to Comb Kellerher a microbiologist who used to work with

1963
01:49:33,039 --> 01:49:37,399
the National Institute for Discovery Sciences NIDS, Robert Bigelow's Bunch,

1964
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:39,960
he wrote a very good book called Brain Trust, and

1965
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:43,840
in that book he claims that Guchev brought these brains

1966
01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:47,159
back to the Army Chemical Corps and they started messing

1967
01:49:47,159 --> 01:49:50,600
around with them to possibly weaponize them or come up

1968
01:49:50,680 --> 01:49:55,319
with defenses against versions of this pathogen being weaponized and

1969
01:49:55,439 --> 01:50:00,319
used against us. And it's his contention that these these

1970
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:05,199
prions got loose into nature, that they didn't have a

1971
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:09,439
complete control and they didn't have these things quarantined well enough.

1972
01:50:09,479 --> 01:50:13,960
These animals who were given these these misfold of proteins

1973
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,640
that they got loose into the environment. And we do

1974
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:21,560
have outbreaks of prion disease that occurred in Wisconsin, in Maryland,

1975
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:26,439
in Wyoming, and in Colorado. And the Wyoming and Colorado

1976
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:30,520
outbreaks are most noteworthy because the most recent outbreak of

1977
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:34,079
chronic wasting disease, which is which is how these proteins

1978
01:50:34,079 --> 01:50:38,359
are described in deer and elk. The most recent outbreak

1979
01:50:38,399 --> 01:50:41,840
happened in October nineteen ninety seven, and this outbreak has

1980
01:50:41,880 --> 01:50:45,600
spread all throughout the eastern half of the country now.

1981
01:50:46,119 --> 01:50:48,840
And so if you are a deer hunter and you

1982
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:51,800
live in upstate York, or you live in Michigan, or

1983
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:56,680
you live in Oklahoma or anywhere west of the Rocky

1984
01:50:56,680 --> 01:50:59,960
Mountains west of the Continental Divide, you better be checking

1985
01:51:00,119 --> 01:51:03,840
that brain, uh, turning that head in for testing before

1986
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:08,079
you render and eat that animal, because there's you know,

1987
01:51:08,359 --> 01:51:12,560
chronic wasting diseases. You know, nothing to write home home

1988
01:51:12,640 --> 01:51:14,119
about it. I mean, I wouldn't want to, you know,

1989
01:51:14,159 --> 01:51:17,399
wish it on, you know, on grandpa or grandma or whomever.

1990
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:19,439
And I find it interesting that a lot of the

1991
01:51:19,479 --> 01:51:22,359
areas where these hunters are hunting these animals are in

1992
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:25,399
areas where you have you know, pretty active militia groups

1993
01:51:25,399 --> 01:51:29,119
and stuff. It's just it's it's a very sticky web

1994
01:51:29,159 --> 01:51:30,840
when you really start to dig into it.

1995
01:51:31,319 --> 01:51:33,720
Speaker 4: And uh, I guess, you know, for for someone like

1996
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:35,520
me who is not as well versed in this, I

1997
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:38,520
would have to ask you what is the connection then

1998
01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:42,199
between areas with these militia groups and areas that have

1999
01:51:42,279 --> 01:51:43,319
this wasting disease.

2000
01:51:44,279 --> 01:51:49,079
Speaker 6: They're hunters, They're going to consume this. They're gonna go

2001
01:51:49,119 --> 01:51:50,520
out and shoot a deer and eat it.

2002
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:51,119
Speaker 5: Okay.

2003
01:51:52,159 --> 01:51:54,000
Speaker 6: And if you look at a map of outbreaks of

2004
01:51:54,079 --> 01:51:56,119
chronic wasting disease and then look at a map of

2005
01:51:56,159 --> 01:51:59,279
where your most you know, your most organized and prevalent

2006
01:51:59,279 --> 01:52:05,319
militia groups patriots are, is pretty interesting correlation there. Ahead

2007
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:09,680
It's easy to find online. Fact that I think I

2008
01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:10,920
have a couple of graphs in my book.

2009
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:18,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's no doubt and I'm going off of

2010
01:52:18,720 --> 01:52:22,159
a field here, but I would encourage the listeners to

2011
01:52:22,359 --> 01:52:26,640
investigate themselves. Go take a look at the Patriot Act.

2012
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,840
Go take a look at Patriot IWO. Go take a

2013
01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:33,199
look at executive orders, Go take a look at the

2014
01:52:33,319 --> 01:52:40,920
changes the Defense Act that go, you know, go verify

2015
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:42,840
for yourself. You know, you don't have to believe me.

2016
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:47,600
It's an obvious fact that or pose coma Tatis was removed.

2017
01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:52,479
So Mark, to answer your question, guys that want to

2018
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:56,920
carry their own weapons and have that states' rights, you know,

2019
01:52:57,079 --> 01:53:00,479
people forget that this country And I don't want to

2020
01:53:00,479 --> 01:53:02,960
sundll like once again, like I'm going off on an

2021
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:05,840
Alex Jones here, but this country is a is a

2022
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:12,680
is a we're independent states formed with the Federal Union.

2023
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:15,479
You know, it's it's not America, it's the United States

2024
01:53:15,479 --> 01:53:20,359
of America, just like the ironically, the you know, the

2025
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:23,960
Russian Republic, uh and the Soviet Union was a bunch

2026
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:28,680
of theoretically independent states under an umbrella. That kind of

2027
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:31,520
that kind of mentality is being pushed further and further

2028
01:53:32,039 --> 01:53:35,239
out of the mainstream today that you know, it's federal government,

2029
01:53:35,359 --> 01:53:40,680
central control and central uh uh control of on on

2030
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:44,640
all levels. So is there a correlation? Maybe not, and

2031
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,840
and I don't and speaking for Christopher, I don't think

2032
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:49,960
he's he's you know, guaranteeing you that there's a hard

2033
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:52,920
connection there. But it is a little ironic and and

2034
01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:59,439
it's also less than probably coincidental that these correlations exist

2035
01:53:59,439 --> 01:54:02,199
and they're pretty prominent when you look at the documentation

2036
01:54:02,319 --> 01:54:04,720
he has in the book. And yeah, I encourage people

2037
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:05,600
to look for themselves.

2038
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:07,319
Speaker 7: I mean, you know, yeah, yeah again.

2039
01:54:07,479 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 6: And I'm not I'm not, you know, I'm not standing

2040
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:14,560
up here and saying that that's why catemulations are occurring,

2041
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:18,359
or why chronic wasting disease. Has it just happened to

2042
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:22,199
have have spread through the environment to these particular locations.

2043
01:54:22,399 --> 01:54:24,800
I'm just pointing out, like Bruce is saying, it's it's

2044
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:29,560
very ironic to me that you find, you know, more

2045
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:32,720
than just a loose correlation here. You know, I'm not

2046
01:54:32,760 --> 01:54:35,760
saying that's by design. I'm just saying it's just, you know,

2047
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:38,680
it's just one other thing to look at when you're

2048
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,640
looking at this entire mystery in Toto, you really have

2049
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:44,039
to you have to look at it from all angles.

2050
01:54:44,359 --> 01:54:47,359
You can't factor anything in and you can't factor anything out.

2051
01:54:47,439 --> 01:54:49,680
You just have to let the data, you know, sort

2052
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,000
of lead you in the right direction and lead you

2053
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:54,720
to your conclusions. And I'm looking at everything. I'm not,

2054
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:57,279
you know, I'm I I love my country.

2055
01:54:57,359 --> 01:54:57,920
Speaker 7: I love my.

2056
01:54:57,920 --> 01:55:01,279
Speaker 6: Government, especially when when when when it's functioning properly and

2057
01:55:01,319 --> 01:55:05,680
it's not been you know, been totally compromised by by

2058
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:09,840
corporate interests in uh, in big money in politics. I

2059
01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:12,319
think we're going down a slippery slope in this country.

2060
01:55:12,960 --> 01:55:16,119
I think, uh, you know, issues like human health and

2061
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:21,640
corporate involvement in in uh, you know, legislating the sanctity

2062
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:25,159
of human health and legislating our elective process.

2063
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:26,039
Speaker 1: Uh.

2064
01:55:26,399 --> 01:55:29,880
Speaker 6: Corporations are just there. They have too much power in

2065
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:32,880
this country. And you know, the F word was bantered

2066
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:36,399
about earlier fashion, you know, a fascist state. Uh, We're

2067
01:55:36,399 --> 01:55:38,720
not quite there yet, although some people would argue with that,

2068
01:55:39,079 --> 01:55:41,119
but man, I'll tell you it's right around the corner,

2069
01:55:41,479 --> 01:55:45,319
and it's it's it shows like this that finally, you know, can.

2070
01:55:45,439 --> 01:55:47,960
Speaker 7: Possibly help people get mobilized.

2071
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:50,800
Speaker 6: And in the Internet, it's a perfect vehicle while it

2072
01:55:51,039 --> 01:55:54,119
lasts in its current state, is a perfect vehicle to

2073
01:55:54,239 --> 01:55:56,079
organize and get people educated.

2074
01:55:56,319 --> 01:55:59,479
Speaker 7: I mean, we need to get educated well stated.

2075
01:55:59,680 --> 01:56:02,039
Speaker 1: But before we let you go and thank you for

2076
01:56:02,159 --> 01:56:04,880
spending two hours of your time with us, tell us

2077
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:06,960
how the listeners said they can get a hold of

2078
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:09,000
your books, where you're going to be talking, where you're

2079
01:56:09,039 --> 01:56:12,439
going to be presenting, and so that we can let

2080
01:56:12,479 --> 01:56:14,680
people look further into this with you.

2081
01:56:15,479 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 6: Well, I won't be a conflict in the desert. Oh,

2082
01:56:21,239 --> 01:56:25,680
contact in the desert. I'm not planning any speaking engagements

2083
01:56:25,680 --> 01:56:27,479
here in the near future, but you can hear me

2084
01:56:27,520 --> 01:56:32,119
every Saturday night, late night early Sunday morning on the

2085
01:56:32,159 --> 01:56:34,800
para cast at the paracast.

2086
01:56:34,479 --> 01:56:36,239
Speaker 7: Dot com t H E.

2087
01:56:36,479 --> 01:56:38,119
Speaker 1: P A R A C A s T.

2088
01:56:38,319 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 6: Dot com the sixty Minutes of the Paranormal. We have

2089
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:45,560
great guests on every week. We've been going for eight years.

2090
01:56:46,119 --> 01:56:49,800
My website is our Strange planet dot com. We live

2091
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:53,119
on a strange planet and it's our Strange Planet dot com.

2092
01:56:53,359 --> 01:56:55,800
That's where you can get copies of my books. I'll

2093
01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:58,560
sign them and autograph them in number stocking the herd

2094
01:56:58,600 --> 01:57:02,359
for you. So again, I appreciate you guys inviting me

2095
01:57:02,399 --> 01:57:04,920
back on the show, and you know, onwards and upwards,

2096
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:06,479
keep doing a good job like you're doing. It was

2097
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:09,079
great seeing you the last year in Trenton.

2098
01:57:09,479 --> 01:57:11,359
Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much for coming on, Christopher.

2099
01:57:11,359 --> 01:57:12,920
Speaker 5: We really enjoyed talking to you tonight.

2100
01:57:13,479 --> 01:57:15,760
Speaker 1: Folks, get those books and read them. It'll scare the

2101
01:57:15,960 --> 01:57:17,439
Jesus out of you, but you need to open your

2102
01:57:17,439 --> 01:57:20,920
eyes it will. That's true. Hey, man, keep up the

2103
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:23,680
good work. Stay cool out there this summer, will you, buddy, Yeah,

2104
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:24,479
well we'll do it.

2105
01:57:24,479 --> 01:57:24,800
Speaker 7: Thank you.

2106
01:57:25,159 --> 01:57:26,439
Speaker 1: Thanks a million, Chris.

2107
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Speaker 5: Well, that was a really good show. I really enjoy

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talking to him tonight.

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Speaker 1: He's I mean, it's you can't cover all the material

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that he spent ten years collecting, and he is so

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meticulous in that book. And I didn't mean to get

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off a field, but I think you can't look at

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this stuff in a very narrow context. And one of

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the good things about will A Christopher, in my mind,

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as an investigator, approaches it, he's not monolithic in his approach.

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He said, Hey, look, it looks to me like this

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is a major portion of it. But there's some high

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strangest strangeness in that that just doesn't fit the mold. So, Mark,

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it's been a great show. I appreciate it. Thank our listeners,

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and by the way, our bells coming in July, so

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stay tuned to Dark Matter, Keith, Thanks Amelia for all

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your help. Mark look forward to having next week's show.

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Speaker 4: All right then, thanks thanks a lot, Bruce, and thanks

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for everyone else for listening to Unknown Origins Radio. We'll

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catch you next Thursday night at eight pm Eastern Standard

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time here in the Dark Matter Radio Network.

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Speaker 5: Have a great night everybody.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. Be safe, folks, have a

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great weekend.