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True Murder with your 30 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:36.799 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 31 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:50.599 Good evening new from the best selling author of Wrecking Crew. 32 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:55.439 During the early morning hours of July seventeenth, nineteen eighty three, 33 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.640 fatigue became a factor for the young couple from central 34 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.519 Illinois who spent their day under the hot sun at 35 00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:05.879 Marriott's Great America Amusement Park north of Chicago. On their 36 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:08.560 drive home, the tired teenagers pulled to the shoulder of 37 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.919 Interstate fifty five to get a RESTful sleep. As the 38 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.599 teen slept inside their car under the moon and the stars, 39 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.000 a dangerous force of evil lurked in the shadows parking 40 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:24.080 directly behind them. The summer of nineteen eighty three was 41 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:27.319 like no other for Joliet, Illinois, a hard working, rough 42 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:31.240 and tough, blue collar industrial city an hour's drive southwest 43 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:34.280 of Chicago. This was one of the hottest summers on 44 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:37.960 record for Joliet, and an elusive serial killing madman kept 45 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.439 piling up the body count as he showed no signs 46 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:45.560 of being caught. One overnight killing spree claimed five victims, 47 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.199 including members of the Will County Sheriff's office. The following 48 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:54.000 month brought more bloodshed, a quadruple murder inside a small 49 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:58.840 Joliette shop best known for its pottery classes. The plague 50 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:02.360 of sensialsts violence spark the controversial New York City based 51 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:07.159 Guardian Angels to mobilize foot patrols, and Juliet generating more 52 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.400 unwanted news media attention for the community. Even the National 53 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:16.599 Inquirer produced its own sensational peace, labeling Juliet Terror Town. 54 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:22.520 USA residents shuddered with horror. Determined detectives worked in overdrive 55 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:27.000 trying to find an overlook clue or two. Finally, when 56 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.919 an arrest seemed to come out of nowhere, area citizens 57 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.240 breathed a sigh of relief. Authorities linked the so called 58 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.479 stone cold killing machine to a chilling count of fourteen 59 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:43.199 homicides plus three women who miraculously survived their agonizing encounters, 60 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.360 But with multiple murder trials on horizon, it remained anyone's guests. 61 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:53.120 Whether Milton Johnson, whose family nicknamed him Biggin short for 62 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.360 Big One, was guilty of mass murder and if so, 63 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.800 would he die by means of lethal injection the Illinois 64 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.280 Department of Corrections. The book that we're featuring this evening 65 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:10.199 is Terror Town USA, The Untold Story of Joliet's notorious 66 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:15.280 serial killer, with my special guest, journalist and author John Ferrick. 67 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:17.639 Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much 68 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.480 for this interview, John Ferrick, Thanks for. 69 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:23.759 Having me on again. Dan, It's a great opportunity to 70 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:24.199 be back. 71 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:28.120 Thank you so much. We haven't heard from you since 72 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:32.879 your best selling and incredible Wrecking Crew, and you're back 73 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:39.040 with Terror Town USA. Congratulations. Let's get to summer of 74 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.720 eighty three and you talk about this very very unusual time, 75 00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.240 summer of nineteen eighty three and Joliet, Illinois and you 76 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:49.720 were ten years old. Tell us a little bit about 77 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:55.160 that time and this turning point in your life and why. 78 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.639 Well, the one thing, the one thing that really set 79 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:00.720 out about the summer of n teen eighty three was 80 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.920 that it was just unbearably hot. Obviously, all summers in 81 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:08.000 the Midwest, especially around Chicago, are hot to begin with, 82 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.600 but that year was just incredibly brutal. And then on 83 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:16.800 top of that, we had this unbelievable senseless killing spree 84 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:20.519 that just seemed to come out of nowhere, and and 85 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:25.360 it just really frightened and terrorized, you know, the entire community. 86 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:29.959 These were not these were obviously not you know, gang 87 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.639 related or drug related homicides. These were you know, mass murders. 88 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:37.839 You know, two to three to four sometimes five people 89 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.120 were getting killed at one time, and it just seemed 90 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.439 like all the victims were these crimes were just happening 91 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:49.480 out of nowhere, and uh and and yearly were were random. 92 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.279 That's the way it seems. So you know, as a 93 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:56.120 ten year old kid, you know, I was I think 94 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:57.879 I was a paper boy at that point in time, 95 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:02.360 ten eleven and twelve. I pretty much passed the newspapers 96 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:07.240 and uh. And there was another person in my neighbor two. 97 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:08.680 It was like two or three of us that split 98 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.439 up the routes, and there was there happened to be uh, 99 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:14.600 one murder that happened just about five or six houses 100 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.160 up the street from where I lived, right on the 101 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.639 Vio Road, and it was an eighty two year old widow. 102 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.360 And that was just I mean incredibly shocking because I 103 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.360 had a grandmother, grandparents, well they were both alive at 104 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:30.439 that point in time, that lived just two other streets 105 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.879 over from me, you know, so to have uh, you know, 106 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:37.560 a widow, a woman in her eighties who lived alone, 107 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:41.959 just murdered five or six houses up the street from you, 108 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:43.560 you know, and none to hear about it, you know, 109 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:45.439 read about on the paper, but then also kind of 110 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:47.600 hear a second hand, I mean, which was true as 111 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:49.240 far as some of the facts that she was found 112 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.439 you know, in her in her living room chair, you know, 113 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.639 beaten to death at the time. And you know, at 114 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:56.920 that point in time, Dan, I mean, nobody knew who 115 00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:58.839 the killer was, so it was you know again right, 116 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.839 another murder had happened, and you know, and of all people, 117 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:06.399 it's a eighty two year old woman that lives by yourself. 118 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.800 I mean, that just was scary for everybody. It certainly 119 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.560 was scary for me being a ten year old kid 120 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.480 just trying to make sense out of life. And you know, 121 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:19.120 you know, yeah, I paid attention to you know, Major 122 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.040 League Baseball, Chicago White Sox, Cargo Cubs, and my little 123 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:24.279 league team that I played with, and then you have 124 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.879 all this going on in your neighborhood and around the city. 125 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.000 It was pretty pretty mortifying. 126 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.279 You talk about ten years later, you were a sophomore 127 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:39.639 in college studying journalism at Eastern Illinois University. Summer of 128 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:44.319 nineteen ninety three, returned to Juliet as a newspaper reporting 129 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:49.839 reporter intern, and so you got to hear the stories 130 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.160 from veteran journalists about that summer of eighty three and 131 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:57.879 the terror and the ensuing murder trials. Tell us what 132 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:02.279 happened after college and how you came to meet Frank 133 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:06.720 ser Cervenik and the idea of about this book. 134 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.439 Well, yeah, as yeah, as you pointed out, I spent 135 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:15.759 the summer of eighty three back at back in my 136 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.000 hometown working for the local newspaper and uh and obviously 137 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.319 again that was pre internet day, so uh, I mean, 138 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:25.720 newspapers were still very very strong, and you know, that 139 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.920 was pretty much deep place, uh, you know, for uh, 140 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:32.120 for information. We had a really good newspaper at that time. 141 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.279 So so it was really worthwhile and I you know, 142 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:38.919 picked up a lot of you know, intelligence just from uh, 143 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:40.879 just from hearing the stories and working with several of 144 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.960 these veteran reporters. And editors and photographers who had been 145 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:47.039 around ten, fifteen, twenty five years, you know, when they 146 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:49.879 talked about Milton Johnson and just you know how uh 147 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:52.840 how scary of the time that it was in Joliette. 148 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.679 You know, the previous uh, you know, previous decade. It's 149 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:59.120 always interesting again to kind of learn each town's you know, 150 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.120 you know, some their most shocking crimes. And then you know, 151 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.320 the summer of eighty three was always on a lot 152 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:12.000 of people's minds. I eventually moved on UH after college. 153 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:15.000 I worked in South Bend, Indiana for a while. I 154 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.759 came back to the Chicago suburbs. I was in Green Bay, Wisconsin, 155 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.159 out in Omaha, Nebraska, and then back to Wisconsin again. 156 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.840 And then four years ago, dan is when I returned 157 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:28.720 back to UH, back to Juliet my hometown, to UH 158 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.039 to work as a reporter and editor for the for 159 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:36.559 the Jolia Patch, which is the main news organization where 160 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:41.120 an online only uh you know, news outlet and uh 161 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:43.600 and uh so I was kind of getting my feet 162 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.960 while I just kind of you know, re reacclimating with 163 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.039 a lot of people in town. Yeah, four years ago, 164 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.519 right around this time last or yeah, four years ago 165 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:57.159 in the summer of seventeen, and uh, and I wound 166 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:00.159 up going out for lunch with one of the one 167 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:05.120 of the premier lawyers in the area, Frank Servignac. It's 168 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:07.399 a hard name to say and spell. I still have 169 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:09.480 a hard time spelling it, even though he's you know, 170 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:12.799 he's training it a well known lawyer. But anyway, but Frank, 171 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.080 Frank and his firm went out for lunch with me, 172 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.360 you know, and and we were just talking, you know, 173 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.000 that day, and he knew a little bit about some 174 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:21.840 of the other books I had written over the years, 175 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:25.279 and and he just you know, pointed out that there 176 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:29.159 had never been a book ever written about Milton Johnson 177 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.639 and uh, you know, in the summer Summer of Tear 178 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.879 from nineteen eighty three. And what was also interesting too, 179 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:40.879 was that one of his law partners, Stephen White, who's 180 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:44.039 who's in the seventies now. But but Steve was one 181 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:48.759 of the key prosecutors on the Milton Johnson cases. And uh, 182 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.000 and again Frank was just the opinion that, you know, 183 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.840 nobody's ever written a book about, you know, Milton Johnson, 184 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:58.960 even though he's probably one of America's in North America's 185 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:03.840 most notorious serial killers, but yet there's there's very little 186 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:08.000 known about him, and uh so I gave this. I 187 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:10.600 kind of always had this case, to be honest with you, Dan, 188 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:15.000 you know, on my unofficial little sheet of keep a sheep. 189 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:16.279 It just kind of keep a sheet in my head 190 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:18.919 as far as of you know, here's four or five 191 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.120 possible book to at least think about, uh you know, 192 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:25.279 for my next project. And when I returned to Illinois 193 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.879 from Wisconsin four years ago after doing the Steven Avia 194 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:33.360 book on Wrecking Crew, you know, I wanted to try 195 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.960 to find something back in this area here around the 196 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:39.480 Chicago land, uh you know, Joliet area. For me, it's 197 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.840 always been easier to do books, you know, in a 198 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.120 town or a state or an area that I'm familiar with. 199 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.440 I do get requests, you know, every few months, somebody 200 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:50.039 will send me something, you know about a case in 201 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:55.200 Tennessee or Seattle or California, and I just don't pursue 202 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.879 those from the standpoint that, yeah, I'm not if I'm 203 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:00.879 not really familiar with that town or that area, I 204 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:02.919 really don't think, you know, I'm the right person to 205 00:12:02.919 --> 00:12:06.120 be writing that kind of book. Uh So, uh So, 206 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:08.480 I really want to write books only about areas that 207 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.600 I'm familiar with or have access to a lot of 208 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:16.559 key key people. And uh so so when you mentioned, uh, yeah, 209 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:21.080 this this uh this story with Milton Johnson, I really 210 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:24.120 thought that, yeah, that could be uh you know, that 211 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.879 that has strong potential. And and I felt the fact too, 212 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.639 that that there had never been any any true crime 213 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:33.039 book really done on Milton Johnson. That in of itself 214 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.879 was a strong reason to uh to pursue the research 215 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.919 and uh, you know, and see where see where things 216 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:40.879 would lead. I knew I had a lot ahead of 217 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:42.840 me though, too. I mean, I knew if I undertook 218 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:44.720 this project, it was going to take several years. It 219 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:46.879 wasn't going to be a you know, a three month 220 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:49.039 project or something like that. I'd have to put in 221 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.759 the you know, the time and effort. But uh, you know, 222 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:54.679 but but if I did that, I also felt there 223 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:56.879 would be a good chance that it would be ah, 224 00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:59.919 you know, well researched book, book product. 225 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.159 In the end, you talk about that research and this 226 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.840 is pre internet days, this occurred obviously you're doing your 227 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:10.799 research was more difficult. Tell us about some of that 228 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.720 difficult research and why was so difficult? 229 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:19.159 Well, I mean, again, the thing about Milton Johnson is 230 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:23.240 similar to a lot of the other notorious serial killers. Oftentimes, 231 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.480 you know, there's the there's the cases or the crimes 232 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.799 that they're convicted of, but then there's the other cases 233 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:31.840 that the police you know, had them as the prime 234 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.440 suspect or there was strong evidence physical or circumstantial. You 235 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:40.919 know that you know that for different reasons, oftentimes just 236 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:45.039 for legal reasons, but that they may not be prosecuted for. 237 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.360 And to do the Milton Johnson book, I wanted to 238 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.039 you know, really step back and analyze and in all 239 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.960 the cases that that he was a suspect and and 240 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.159 and really try to look at the evidence and and 241 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.120 see if it if it matched with the police and 242 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:05.559 the prosecutor's furious were making this book a little difficult. Yeah, 243 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.480 Like we said, Uh, there just isn't a whole lot 244 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.360 that you could easily find by you know, just you know, 245 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.000 going to the Internet or to do research on on 246 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:18.519 Google or you know even a you know, even even 247 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.159 a different true crime blog here or there, you know, 248 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.840 or even news organizations. So one of the best places 249 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.440 for me was was there's a little uh there's a 250 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.240 little office annexed that the wil County government. Wilt County's 251 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.840 the main county, uh for for it's one of the 252 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.320 biggest counties here in the state of Illinois after Chicago. 253 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.960 But but Wilt County is where Juliet's Joliet's at and 254 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:47.159 uh the county has a has a little office building 255 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:50.039 on the west side of town where they keep all 256 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.320 their old archives, you know, going back to the eighteen 257 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:57.279 hundreds or early nineteen hundreds, and and so so I 258 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.519 wound up, you know, working something out where I would 259 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:02.120 go over Wednesday for about two to three hours in 260 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:06.639 the morning, from like nine to noon, for for several months, 261 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.559 and they pulled out these big boxes that probably weighed 262 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.279 about and I don't know, eighty to one hundred pounds each, 263 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.759 and there was probably about three or four of them. 264 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:21.120 And those inside those boxes then contained you know, all 265 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:24.320 the old trial transcripts, some the some but not you know, 266 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.279 not most of the police reports, but court exhibits, and 267 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.559 then a lot of appeals documents. And that's kind of 268 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:34.960 where I started my research as far as to kind 269 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:37.960 of get an idea of, you know, who are some 270 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.360 of the key people that were involved in these you know, 271 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.960 in this case, in these cases I should say plural, 272 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.679 who were some of the key witnesses, And then just 273 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:48.679 to try to get a better idea of you know, 274 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:53.200 who I'm dealing with as far as you know, police officers, prosecutors, witnesses, 275 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:57.600 you know, and of course Milton Johnson and and so 276 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:01.440 that was really very very hell helpul and you know, 277 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:03.600 and then I would go through and try to figure out, Okay, 278 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:05.480 these are the documents that I want to pay for, 279 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.759 you know, to make copies of. And you know, these 280 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:11.960 other documents here are interesting to read, but really I 281 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:14.120 could tell ahead of time these are going to be 282 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.320 you know, boring or now you know, there's you know, 283 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.039 they're dealing with appeals that really are you know, not 284 00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:24.039 much interest to true crime readers or even myself. So 285 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:27.840 you know, so those documents, you know, really we weren't 286 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.960 worth my time to copy. So once I figured out 287 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.159 kind of what were the key documents that I needed 288 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.000 to get my hands on from there, then it made 289 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:38.840 it a lot easier to kind of figure out what 290 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:46.440 other cases that I needed to research and pursue as well. 291 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.200 In your research, you come across February fifteenth and nineteen seventy, 292 00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:58.399 very important date in everyone's and everybody's history involved with this, 293 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:01.759 but especially Milton Johnson. And you talk about a person 294 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.720 named Lee Chandler and this is an alias, but Mary 295 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:11.839 West his girlfriend drove to Pilcher Park and they were 296 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.519 dating these two people, and so they have an encounter 297 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.960 with this person. Tell us what he says to this 298 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:26.480 woman and what he says to this young team and 299 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:27.720 what happens as a result. 300 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:33.160 Well, he again, it's Wruary, it's really cold. I think 301 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.200 it was in the in the teams that singles didges 302 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.279 are in the teens at the time. And and he's 303 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.680 coming from the opposite direction. So the roads through the 304 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:47.079 forest are you know, pretty much one way roads, you know, 305 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.000 and there's a little area in there for cars to 306 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.319 pull off and park, you know, go for a walks, 307 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.119 that kind of stuff. And he was coming from the 308 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.319 opposite direction, and he started by asking them, you know, 309 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:00.880 innocent question, you know, he if he was like going 310 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:05.240 the wrong way, and uh and uh. So he's really 311 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.839 not you know, threatening or really doing anything that that 312 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.799 scares them at all of en And and then he 313 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:16.400 comes back later a minute, a couple of minutes later. 314 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:18.640 So and then this time when he comes back out, 315 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.119 he's gotta he's got a gun with him and and 316 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.440 uh and he orders uh the girl, the teenage girl 317 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.960 that get in the back seat, and he makes her boyfriend, 318 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:32.960 you know, lay on the floor in the front seat 319 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.920 of the car, and he proceeds to uh, you know, 320 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:43.440 commit just a violent attack against her, raping her savagely 321 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:46.359 while the boyfriend you know is helpless in the front 322 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:50.079 feet of the vehicle at the time. And it just, uh, 323 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:53.640 it's just a really uh, I mean, just scary encounter, 324 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.400 you know for this, you know, this teenage couple. The 325 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.599 last thing they ever expected was just you know, somebody 326 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.000 to come out of nowhere in the late at night. 327 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.240 And uh, you know, and uh you know, their their 328 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.119 lives are in line, and uh, you know, he's beating her, 329 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.759 he breaks her jaw and uh and you know, at 330 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.319 one point in time, he goes back to his vehicle, 331 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.039 you know, and has her boyfriend get out of the vehicle. 332 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.400 For like a couple of months or so, and I 333 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:24.240 remember he kind of goes through a series of questions 334 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:26.920 with the boyfriend. He asks, like, you know, his he 335 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.559 you know, have you been cooperative. You know, have you 336 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:31.640 been doing what I asked that kind of stuff. And 337 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.119 then and then he makes a comment to him about, 338 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.599 you know, wanting the doors of the vehicle to be 339 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.279 left open, you know while he's going to shoot them both, uh, 340 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.319 you know, and uh and the boyfriend's just going to 341 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.680 run into the woods and uh you know and just 342 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.480 uh miraculously, yeah, he survived and uh you know, and 343 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.319 nobody was was shot and killed that night then, Dan, So, 344 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:01.400 uh that was really, you know, just a chilling night. 345 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.960 And I remember the Julia police were quoted in the 346 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.839 Herald News the following day after the arrest was made, 347 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:09.240 you know, just the detective said that was like the 348 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:13.160 worst you know, beating a sexual assault case that he 349 00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.559 had ever he had ever encountered. 350 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:22.079 You mentioned you write that he wanted to shoot both 351 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.920 of them at the same time. That's what he had 352 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.640 told the boyfriend, that he'd want to shoot him with 353 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.960 one bullet and shoot both of them at the same time. 354 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.000 And so that's what he had asked him to get 355 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:35.119 into position for. And also that how did they find 356 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:40.759 out that he was the perpetrator? Tell us how they 357 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:41.480 found that out? 358 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:47.640 Well, he and guessing he must have panicked, you know, 359 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.720 when the boyfriend ran into the woods and he's going 360 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.799 to drive you know, the you know, his victim, the 361 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.400 girl that he had just beaten and an assaulted. Uh, 362 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.839 he's going to drive her up to uh to the hospital. 363 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:08.000 The it's over across hospital at the time, and uh 364 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.720 it was just a couple of miles away if that, 365 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:16.079 and uh so it's gonna be you know, witness identification. 366 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.559 You know, she's all you know, she's gonna identify him 367 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.359 as the as the salent, and so is the you know, 368 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.839 the boyfriend. And the boyfriend ran into the woods, he 369 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:28.119 got to uh got to a phone and I'm trying 370 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:29.920 to remember it was a motel or a hotel or 371 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.240 just something there, but you know, he got somewhere where 372 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.400 he was able to get somebody to call the police. 373 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:39.039 And uh so the police were able to respond to 374 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:42.079 this crime very very quickly, and uh you know and 375 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.319 basically Milton Johnson was arrested, you know, on the same 376 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.759 night that this that this crime happened. And uh, it 377 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.920 took me a while, but I eventually found, yeah, the 378 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.200 old the original newspaper articles on the on the crime, 379 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:58.279 and uh that's that's one of the challenges to sometimes 380 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.799 stand you know, when you go back on the case 381 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:02.119 that forty or fifty years old. I mean I did 382 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.960 talk to a couple of different police officers that were involved, 383 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.279 you know, are people that knew some of the details 384 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:12.359 of this case. But ultimately, you know, the best source 385 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:15.440 for the information was the old newspaper articles as far 386 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.799 as you know, what was you know, what was factual 387 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.839 and what what actually did did happen? And I heard 388 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.480 different stories about the Milton Johnson arrest, but the fact is, yeah, 389 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:29.599 it happened on the night that this this terrible, awful 390 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.119 crime that happened out at the Pilcher Park Woods And 391 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.920 just for perspective, this crime just really terrorized the community. So, 392 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:41.039 I mean Pilter Park for a number of years then 393 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:43.960 had a bad reputation as far as you know, people 394 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:46.359 were just scared to go there at nighttime, you know, 395 00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.279 because of this violent, you know, late night attack that 396 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:51.200 happened out there. 397 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.160 You right, also that he burned her with the cigarette 398 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:01.559 lighter on her private parts, just that more to the 399 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:05.240 torture that he was inflicted upon her. You talk about 400 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:11.039 this trial and their boyfriend Lee testified at this trial 401 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.640