Speaker 1: Welcome friends, Jacky.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Movie Film. It's episode three forty two. I
Speaker 2: am Zaki Hassan. I'm here with Brian Holp. Hey. How's
Speaker 2: it going, Zachi? Hey man? Hi Ben? You know I'm
Speaker 2: getting by, Like all of us are doing it the
Speaker 2: best we can. To quote Just the Ten of Us?
Speaker 2: Was that the theme song? Doing it the best stock can.
Speaker 2: It's the great theme song that works for any show
Speaker 2: because it's just general enough. It's right exactly like there's
Speaker 2: a whole there's a whole YouTube channel that's just the
Speaker 2: just the Ten of Us theme appended to like Perfect
Speaker 2: Strangers and you know, Breaking Bad and you know Zack
Speaker 2: Snyder's Justice League, like and it all works.
Speaker 3: That's like ringing a bell. Now that you say it,
Speaker 3: I feel like I kind of remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure, pretty sure we've discussed it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh real quick? Is there like some screaming going
Speaker 3: on in the background.
Speaker 2: Yes, there is. That's that's my that's my two year old. Almost.
Speaker 3: Ah okay, so this is happy I'm alive screaming, not
Speaker 3: like my brother has got me on a headlock.
Speaker 2: And well, I suspect you know, last night I ordered
Speaker 2: some I was feeling this urge for Chicago style deep dish.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, And then completely by chance, my brother was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm he and his wife. Oh, we're gonna go have
Speaker 2: some Chicago style deep dish. What And I said, well,
Speaker 2: clearly the stars have a line. So I like placed
Speaker 2: an online order and I was like, hey, pick this
Speaker 2: up and ring it back. So so I love that
Speaker 2: they brought it to you.
Speaker 3: They brought din't he didn't like door dash it or anything.
Speaker 3: You're like, hey pick this up for me.
Speaker 2: I was like, you're there anyway? You know, did you
Speaker 2: tip him? I did not tip my brother, and and
Speaker 2: I didn't. I don't. I don't feel like I need
Speaker 2: to tip my brother because he gets to come over
Speaker 2: and hang out whenever he wants. I make him some
Speaker 2: nice coffee. That's true.
Speaker 3: What's the place I mean is it? Do you have
Speaker 3: good Chicago deep dish up there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it's called Zachary's. Oh okay, yeah, they got
Speaker 2: they got a few, And I was I was just
Speaker 2: like Jones and for some for some Chicago style you know,
Speaker 2: hm and and so anyway, the screaming you heard, I
Speaker 2: suspect was it was him want wanting more want more
Speaker 2: than pizza. We're raising him right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually have a Gino's East that opened up
Speaker 3: uh in Sherman Oaks and Uh, which you know, that
Speaker 3: was like where I liked to go whenever i'd visit Chicago.
Speaker 3: So it was really cool that that opened up down
Speaker 3: the road. And the pizza's good and the Italian beefs
Speaker 3: are good, and so that's kind of nice.
Speaker 2: There you go. Here's our unpaid promo for Zachary's and
Speaker 2: Geno's East. Yeah, exactly, So that's what's going on there.
Speaker 2: And before we get started, I just want to remind
Speaker 2: everybody if you want to hear this episode ad free
Speaker 2: and also support the work that we're doing. We do
Speaker 2: have a Patreon page, right, Brian.
Speaker 3: Yes, If you head over to patreon dot com Slash
Speaker 3: Movie Film Podcast hit subscribe only five dollars a month,
Speaker 3: you'll find all our commentaries and episodes without ads or interruptions,
Speaker 3: butting in and bonus conversations. Recently, we had a fun
Speaker 3: time talking about Disney kind of creating their own version
Speaker 3: of IMAX, right, and what that means for the upcoming
Speaker 3: Avengers movie. I talked about my gig that I've been
Speaker 3: working on for the past several weeks.
Speaker 2: And if you want to know what that gig is,
Speaker 2: you know you want to yea, only hear it at Patreon. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, that's right. Anyway, what else have you seen,
Speaker 2: Brian oh Man, I've seen a slew of things, actually
Speaker 2: a slew of older.
Speaker 3: Which I'll just go through quick because there's not much
Speaker 3: I need to say about them. But they were really
Speaker 3: cool experiences. And as I've said a lot on this show,
Speaker 3: speaking of plugs. At the Regal Theater, you know, just
Speaker 3: down the road from me, they always have these like series.
Speaker 2: Where they'll show older.
Speaker 3: Films like every day, and usually there's a theme for
Speaker 3: the month. So one month was Masterpieces, one month was
Speaker 3: Horror coming up in May now it's musicals, and in
Speaker 3: April it was lols and so they were showing a
Speaker 3: bunch of comedies. And then also nationwide theaters have been
Speaker 3: showing a lot of older movies for their anniversaries. And
Speaker 3: so anyway, I went and saw Farrispeeler's.
Speaker 2: Day Off Nice that's an lol.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that I'd never seen it in a
Speaker 3: theater before. I've seen it tons of times, but I
Speaker 3: just thought it would be worth seeing Chicago on the
Speaker 3: big screen, and I mostly bring it up because we
Speaker 3: watched it. I sat next to a stranger and when
Speaker 3: it was over, he looked at me and he just
Speaker 3: it's as good as it ever was, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it really is, isn't it? Like it just really holds up.
Speaker 3: And so you know, they have that scene on the
Speaker 3: bus with the principal and he's like got to sit
Speaker 3: with all the students, which kind of keeps you through
Speaker 3: the credits.
Speaker 2: And I have to admit I.
Speaker 3: Completely forgot about the little tag at the end where
Speaker 3: funny right where Ferris is in the hallway and he's like.
Speaker 2: You're still here. Yeah, it's over, go home.
Speaker 3: And you could sense this collective feeling in the theater
Speaker 3: like we all were like oh yeah, and we never
Speaker 3: thought we'd get to see that moment in a theater
Speaker 3: and have Farris tell us to go home. And so
Speaker 3: I was like, man, that was worth it just for that.
Speaker 2: That was a good one.
Speaker 3: Saw Jerry Maguire, which I think was celebrating his thirtieth anniversary,
Speaker 3: and that's a lol. That was I think just an
Speaker 3: anniversary screen. Okay, yeah, good movie, No, but it's really
Speaker 3: really good and I hadn't seen it, I don't think
Speaker 3: since the nineties, and it was really interesting. I took
Speaker 3: my high school girlfriend to see that movie, you know,
Speaker 3: when I was like sixteen years old or something, and
Speaker 3: so it's one thing, you know, you see it as
Speaker 3: a teenager, and then you watch it as like a
Speaker 3: middle aged man and you're like, oh wow, it's really
Speaker 3: it's a whole different experience, and you also just appreciate,
Speaker 3: you know, this movie from the nineties and you know
Speaker 3: Cameron Crowe, James L. Brooks, and it just has a
Speaker 3: different tempo than movies have now. It has a lot
Speaker 3: of great side characters that are allowed to have moments
Speaker 3: and feel like fully fleshed out people even though they
Speaker 3: really kind of aren't, but they just everyone feels like
Speaker 3: a realized human being, which is kind of cool. Like
Speaker 3: the movie just it allows the story and the characters
Speaker 3: to breathe in a way that feels different than movies today.
Speaker 2: But it was just a.
Speaker 3: Really nice experience just watching a story about adults and
Speaker 3: taking its time and it's a messier relationship than I remembered,
Speaker 3: and maybe I even realized when I was younger, and
Speaker 3: I kind of appreciated that.
Speaker 2: It's really cool.
Speaker 3: It was a an unexpected one. I didn't think I'd
Speaker 3: be watching anytime again, and going into the theater and
Speaker 3: watching it giving it my full attention. It was a
Speaker 3: really nice experience. And then let's see, I saw Death
Speaker 3: Becomser That was one of the LOL ones, which was
Speaker 3: like so much fun.
Speaker 2: I hadn't watched that in a while.
Speaker 3: You know, zamechis kind of like, I think he's coming
Speaker 3: right off the Back to the Future three about to
Speaker 3: go into Forrest Gump, and this is just like basically
Speaker 3: a ninety minute tails from the Crypt episode he makes right,
Speaker 3: you know, it's so fun. Meryl Streep and Goldiehn and
Speaker 3: Bruce Willis. It's just so you know, special effects extravaganza,
Speaker 3: just such a funny, you know, snarky tale. That was
Speaker 3: like really cool to watch on the big screen again.
Speaker 3: And then Tumar saw a Fight Club and that was
Speaker 3: an anniversary one, I guess twenty fifth anniversary, which makes
Speaker 3: me think of you because that was one of the
Speaker 3: first movies you and I saw together in the theater, right,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's right. Isn't that crazy amazing?
Speaker 3: It was weird to that was I hadn't seen it
Speaker 3: on a big screen since then, really, and yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't think so, or maybe like at an outdoor screening
Speaker 3: or something. But man, that movie is just mesmerizing. I mean,
Speaker 3: I know it's it's often misinterpreted and maybe disliked by
Speaker 3: some people, but it's just as dizzying and hypnotic as
Speaker 3: it ever was. Like it's just Fincher's exacting filmmaking is
Speaker 3: just sumptuous on the big screen.
Speaker 2: It was very cool to watch, you know What's funny.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think I have seen it since the theater
Speaker 2: at all at all. Wow. Okay, and not because I've
Speaker 2: avoided or anything. It's just a kind of just the
Speaker 2: just I've somehow not seen it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting, Do you have any interest or is it like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: Well because the thing is like I don't, I don't
Speaker 3: think I'm gonna wants to watch it, sure, although I
Speaker 3: feel like she's seen it too, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: and then it's not something you can really watch with kids. No,
Speaker 3: it's still is grimy and unpleasant as you remember, like
Speaker 3: it's you know, sometimes we talk about like the needle
Speaker 3: being pushed a Little Bit or The Bar or whatever,
Speaker 3: you know, like Game of Thrones made extreme violence a
Speaker 3: little bit more acceptable in the mainstream, and then movies
Speaker 3: followed suit, like this movie doesn't feel like, oh that's funny.
Speaker 3: We thought this used to be nasty. It's like, no,
Speaker 3: it's still nasty, right, you know.
Speaker 2: But it's crazy because like my oldest is now about
Speaker 2: the same age I was when I when it came out. Wow,
Speaker 2: yeah right, so I mean I could conceivably watch it
Speaker 2: with him, you know, but that's weird to like, that's
Speaker 2: just crazy all by itself. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: Maybe there are just some movies it's better for people
Speaker 3: to watch on their own, like it doesn't need to
Speaker 3: be a shared experience with your your parents.
Speaker 2: That might be one of them. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then last night there's a screening series out here
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles called Street Food Cinema where they have
Speaker 3: a bunch of food trucks and set.
Speaker 2: Up at different locations.
Speaker 3: And last night my friends and I saw the movie Carrie,
Speaker 3: the Brian DePalma movie from seventy six. Yeah, I'd never
Speaker 3: seen it before. And have you seen Carrie the og one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure on like WGN or something totally right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, the basically the poor girl
Speaker 3: who has no friends and gets picked on, gets asked
Speaker 3: to prom.
Speaker 2: I mean everybody knows the ending.
Speaker 3: You know, she gets dumped with pig's blood and she
Speaker 3: has telekinesis and basically kills everybody. That's all I knew
Speaker 3: about it, and so it was it was cool to watch,
Speaker 3: and it was cool to watch with the crowd. It
Speaker 3: was outdoors under the stars, and Sissy's spacek is really
Speaker 3: good in it and just really sympathetic. I really cared
Speaker 3: about her. And I was also really blown away by
Speaker 3: the camera work. There's a lot of really speaking of Zemechis,
Speaker 3: and we like his long shots where he continues to
Speaker 3: reframe and you know, kind of uses the camera as narrator.
Speaker 3: I mean, De Palma was doing that a lot in this,
Speaker 3: and it was really technical, amazing stuff, you know, going
Speaker 3: over huge crowds and over beams in a gymnasium, and
Speaker 3: I was noticing that a lot. And the ending, I mean,
Speaker 3: I know, the ending, I know, we're you know, everything
Speaker 3: goes hey, why are at the prom? But it's really
Speaker 3: to this day, the tension, the build up to it
Speaker 3: is the editing the camera work, the score, the use
Speaker 3: of slow motion, and someone trying to shut it down.
Speaker 2: But it's too late. It's really packs a punch.
Speaker 3: I mean, all these years later, it is really haunting
Speaker 3: and powerful, and so that was like a cool I'm glad.
Speaker 3: I'm glad I got to see it, and I'm glad
Speaker 3: I got to see it projected with a crowd.
Speaker 2: That was kind of expect I have a clear memory
Speaker 2: of the remake from like twenty thirteen. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2: I remember it existing. I didn't see it. It's Kimberly
Speaker 2: Pierce directed it. Okay, boys don't cry and Cloy Morett's
Speaker 2: Grace plays Carrie. Okay, isn't any good? Or I think
Speaker 2: it's fine? You know, I I I you know, it's
Speaker 2: just one of those IP for Ip's Sake type type remakes.
Speaker 2: But I mean it's got a great cast. You know,
Speaker 2: Julianne Moore plays Carrie's mom, and Judy I can see that, right,
Speaker 2: Anseel el gort is, you know the guy that Carrie likes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fine, you know, I like, I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: think it touches the original, but I mean Kimberly Pierce
Speaker 2: is an interesting director for.
Speaker 3: It, Yeah, you know, And it's it's funny because sometimes
Speaker 3: you watch movies from a different era and they can
Speaker 3: feel a little scrappy, right, you know, to our sensibilities
Speaker 3: in the way things have just evolved. And so I
Speaker 3: could see someone feeling like maybe they could also do
Speaker 3: a take on it. But there's just something like when
Speaker 3: she is in there in the gym and she kind
Speaker 3: of goes bug eyed, you know, it's like she's sort
Speaker 3: of taken over and the doors or like there's just
Speaker 3: something I don't know, you could recreate that, Like there's
Speaker 3: just something about it, I don't know, from that time period,
Speaker 3: the way that they captured it originally, Like that's the
Speaker 3: most visceral first impression of that sort of horrifying event, right,
Speaker 3: And it's like anything else would just feel like it's
Speaker 3: recreating that, So it feel a little bit lesser than
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: That's well, it's funny. I interviewed Kimberly Pierce about the
Speaker 2: film and my recollection is one of the things I
Speaker 2: discussed with her was how that scene it plays differently
Speaker 2: because it's the way the blood spatters on her face,
Speaker 2: it almost feels like like a mask. Mmmm. And I
Speaker 2: was like, it feels like it's framing it very differently.
Speaker 2: You know, it becomes like like like a superhero identity
Speaker 2: almost you know. Oh interesting the way the mask play,
Speaker 2: you know. And and and I think I think she
Speaker 2: said something to the effect of, you know, having to
Speaker 2: do something different, you know, because the diploma one is
Speaker 2: so iconic, uh you know that said I I don't.
Speaker 2: I mean they've tried, They've done multiple like a new
Speaker 2: attempt at Carrie. It's weird how they keep going back
Speaker 2: to that because they did a like a TV remake, right,
Speaker 2: they did the Kimberly Pearce remake. They did a sequel.
Speaker 2: I mean, they keep going back to that. Well, and
Speaker 2: I think partly it's because MGM, they you know, they
Speaker 2: have like like eight ips that they just keep keep
Speaker 2: digging up, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, right right, And it is a compelling idea. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, this this poor you know, high school student
Speaker 3: and then she's got this secret rage inside. And you know,
Speaker 3: I can see why that's so compelling. But that was
Speaker 3: the sequel, The Rage Carrie too.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?
Speaker 3: Oh that's right, Yeah, I remember the like the video
Speaker 3: store box of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've not seen the movie, but I remember
Speaker 2: it existing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would be kind of curious to watch the
Speaker 3: remake just to because it's fresh in my mind and
Speaker 3: just sort of see a later interpretation of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it doesn't embarrass itself, I would say,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't make itself essential either, Like doesn't in
Speaker 2: my opinion, it doesn't say anything new that that absolutely
Speaker 2: was was just you know, desperate to be said, you know, interesting.
Speaker 2: I guess that's kind of rare, right when that does happen,
Speaker 2: when the remake improves it or it takes over the Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's a short list.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well one more and then the next thing I
Speaker 3: saw we have overlap. But I just wanted to throw
Speaker 3: out that I saw the movie The Housemaid, Ah, yes,
Speaker 3: which was kind of a hit. I think around the holidays.
Speaker 2: Aren't they doing a sequel now? I think so.
Speaker 3: I guess it's a book series following the adventures of
Speaker 3: this character. So this is the Electric Boogaloo, Yes happening.
Speaker 2: I'm excited.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, this is with Sydney Sweeney, Amanda Seyfried
Speaker 3: and Brandon's glinn r.
Speaker 2: Is that say his last name? Yeah? That guy man,
Speaker 2: he's he's all over these movies. Right, He's in the
Speaker 2: the It Ends with Us too.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, okay, I didn't see that, but he I
Speaker 3: know he was in the One Shoe. I already forgot
Speaker 3: the title about the girl who's on the date and
Speaker 3: she's getting the phone calls, you know, like the text
Speaker 3: saying that she has to like kill her date.
Speaker 2: Didn't we talk about this? I can't. I can't remember
Speaker 2: if it was on the Bonus Show.
Speaker 3: Or This makes me sad because I want to say trap,
Speaker 3: which it isn't, and I also want to say fall,
Speaker 3: which it isn't.
Speaker 2: There you go, it's drop drop.
Speaker 3: That could be like a fun sort of programming at
Speaker 3: a theater, like these single you know, verbs or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know. Of course, well, and he was in nineteen
Speaker 2: twenty three. He was great at exactly which that.
Speaker 3: It was the first time I saw him, and I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I like this guy. Yeah, And so
Speaker 3: when he pops up, I'm immediately like, oh, I'm into this,
Speaker 3: like I want to I like seeing him do his thing.
Speaker 2: But so this this was.
Speaker 3: A I don't know, it was just like in the
Speaker 3: mood for this, like kind of like an airport novel
Speaker 3: of a movie, you know, kind of pulpy sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And basically it's kind of.
Speaker 3: And that rocks the cradle type deal right one. And
Speaker 3: she plays Sweeney plays like a housemaid desperate for work.
Speaker 3: She has a secret pass she needs to hide, so
Speaker 3: she's hard to hire, and she becomes like a living
Speaker 3: housemaid for this family that it first seems polished, but
Speaker 3: then there's some mystery, mysterious things going on in there
Speaker 3: and row but everybody's worlds turned upside down, and yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's a total like Friday night pulpy entertaining,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of sexy, little violent fun Okay, And
Speaker 3: I was I was just totally in the mood for
Speaker 3: this and it delivered exactly what I like clicked on
Speaker 3: it for. So just throwing that out there for anyone
Speaker 3: who had some interest in it, well.
Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah, all I I saw the ads
Speaker 2: for this and I was like, oh, I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't feel like going to the theater watch it, but like,
Speaker 2: if it turns up on streaming, I might check it out.
Speaker 2: But I just remember when it came out, it was
Speaker 2: in the context of all all the the articles and stuff,
Speaker 2: was like, you know, the Sydney Sweeney controversy, I should
Speaker 2: put that in in air quotes. And I was like,
Speaker 2: what Sydney Sweeney controversy? Like this is? This was kind
Speaker 2: of reassuring to me that I'm not as very online
Speaker 2: as I thought. Oh okay, yeah yeah yeah, because and
Speaker 2: literally I was I was teaching this is because it
Speaker 2: came out last fall, right, yeah maybe the holidays, I think, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's right. But like in that in that arena,
Speaker 2: so I was teaching you know, media and society class.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, can y'all explain the the what Sydney Sweeny?
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't. I don't have the energy
Speaker 2: to look this up. Y'all tell me what's going on.
Speaker 3: And I love the idea of you occasionally being like, guys,
Speaker 3: I need you to teach me today.
Speaker 2: I don't have the time for this.
Speaker 3: And you like they get up, you know, to the
Speaker 3: front and you take a seat, and they explained the Sydney.
Speaker 2: Swee I mean basically, and it's all relevant given everything
Speaker 2: that we talk about, you know, and and I It's
Speaker 2: it's a lot. I'm not even gonna get into it,
Speaker 2: but I'm just like, god, I'm like, everybody got too
Speaker 2: much time on their hands. That's my that's my takeaway,
Speaker 2: right right. Wait, actually I have a question.
Speaker 3: So when you ask your students about this sort of thing,
Speaker 3: what is their attitude about it? Are they a little like, ugh, okay,
Speaker 3: so basically people have been talking about this.
Speaker 2: Or are they like, oh, you won't believe it?
Speaker 3: Like okay, hold on, and they draw you a diagram
Speaker 3: on the chalkboard, you know, like, what's what's their sort
Speaker 3: of ten?
Speaker 2: It's a little both, to be honest, it's a little
Speaker 2: and and just to be clear, I will never dismiss
Speaker 2: or condescend towards whatever things that they feel very exercised about,
Speaker 2: because I want to hear it. I'm genuinely interested. But
Speaker 2: a lot of this, definitely, I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: this is very much an online furor that has no
Speaker 2: bearing on any aspect of reality, you know, sure, sure,
Speaker 2: And so you know, all of this comes down to
Speaker 2: basically basically boiled down, it's Sydney Sweeney is maybe question
Speaker 2: Mark a Trump supporter mm hmm. And that's what it
Speaker 2: all comes down to, okay. And and so you've got
Speaker 2: online people who are who are reading tea leaves and
Speaker 2: you know, Charlie Day meming their way to trying to
Speaker 2: find you know, connections, right.
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, right right, referring to the meme of
Speaker 3: Charlie Day with the strings and.
Speaker 2: With the strings and the big peg board and stuff,
Speaker 2: and and you know, at some level, I'm like, man, like,
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't Sidney Sweeney has she doesn't affect
Speaker 2: my life at all. I don't really care one way
Speaker 2: or the other. I don't watch euphoria. I really truly
Speaker 2: don't care about her political views one or the other,
Speaker 2: you know, right, And it feels like there is sort
Speaker 2: of uh, you know, it's it's weaponized outrage for the
Speaker 2: sake of clicks that burnish uh, these these websites. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know bottom dollar right, Sure, it's it's all. It's
Speaker 2: a little bit of like, man, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: playing this game, you know, sure, totally like I gotta
Speaker 2: know about it. You know, I'll give you another example,
Speaker 2: right I I I just yesterday, I don't know if
Speaker 2: you saw this, h New York Magazine had a whole
Speaker 2: long ass thing about speaking of it and so with us,
Speaker 2: the whole the whole blake lively justin Baldoni thing mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And I this is yesterday morning. I'm sitting here in
Speaker 2: my cave drinking my chai and this article comes up,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, well, I'm I'm gonna be I'm
Speaker 2: literally sipping the tea while I'm drinking. Yeah. It's a
Speaker 2: it's a long thing, you know. And and my takeaway is,
Speaker 2: like I I do think Justin baldoni is is a
Speaker 2: strange guy. And I think that that's my that's my
Speaker 2: overall view. But I also don't think Blake Lively distinguished herself,
Speaker 2: particularly in how this all has been going down, you know, sure,
Speaker 2: And so it is a little bit to me. I
Speaker 2: read this article and and you know, I have It's
Speaker 2: like watching an episode of Dynasty or something. It's just
Speaker 2: rich people right rush at each other and pulling their
Speaker 2: hair and stuff, you know, right, But you know, I
Speaker 2: remember when all of that was happening. This was Fall
Speaker 2: of twenty four and again far it goes back that far.
Speaker 2: I guess when the movie came out, right, okay, and
Speaker 2: it was the same thing. People like again, I was
Speaker 2: getting a lot of this from my students. Oh did
Speaker 2: you hear Blake Lively? Blah blah blah. Oh, you know,
Speaker 2: but justin Baldoni blah blah blah. And so for me,
Speaker 2: that was very revelatory because it's not a story I
Speaker 2: was following to any with any great interest, but just
Speaker 2: from the folks who are who are living online and
Speaker 2: how how they're interacting with this news and information and
Speaker 2: how they're processing and how they're already choosing upsides, all
Speaker 2: of that is very interesting to me, you know. But
Speaker 2: it's a lot I would recommend reading that article though,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a story I kind of hit the
Speaker 3: eject button on because I think at first I was
Speaker 3: following it a little bit, and then I was seeing
Speaker 3: people who were very much on Baldoni's side, and then
Speaker 3: I was seeing people who are very much against you know, him,
Speaker 3: And it was and people were so sure of their
Speaker 3: opinions on all of this that I was like, I don't,
Speaker 3: I don't. I hit the button and I popped out
Speaker 3: of my jet.
Speaker 2: I think that's smart. I mean, that is in fact
Speaker 2: the smartest approach. But he's definitely he seems really there's
Speaker 2: just something off in terms of the way he interacted
Speaker 2: with her. Because all of the text messages, all this
Speaker 2: laundry is just out there right, So the way he's
Speaker 2: texting with her, I'm like, that's a weird way to
Speaker 2: text somebody, see and got that deep You can read
Speaker 2: all that and then and it talks about how the
Speaker 2: nice Pool character in Deadpool and Wolverine was basically Ryan
Speaker 2: Reynolds making fun of Justin Baldoni. I kind of remember
Speaker 2: that reading about that, but I didn't like get it. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: it's funny because because you go through this article and
Speaker 2: it uses these specific data points and I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: holy shit, that's like kind of hilarious, you know, But well,
Speaker 2: I guess that's that thing Dan fun what's that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, I guess it's that
Speaker 3: thing done well, because if you get what he's doing specifically,
Speaker 3: it's funny on a whole other level. But for me,
Speaker 3: I didn't know what it was referring to, but it
Speaker 3: still was a funny character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And knowing that it was, there was specific dialogue
Speaker 2: he was given just to the you know, drive the
Speaker 2: screw in a little like extra you know. Interesting anyway,
Speaker 2: that's a lot. That's all of that is to say,
Speaker 2: I have no you know, I don't really care about
Speaker 2: that movie. I haven't seen it, and apparently they're doing
Speaker 2: a sequel or good luck with that, as you know,
Speaker 2: but just seeing the way these people because again it's
Speaker 2: all in these text messages. So you have this very
Speaker 2: expansive article that's that's doing a basically a TikTok of
Speaker 2: the whole the whole drama from when it started up
Speaker 2: to now, and it's like, man, rich people problems, right right, glad, glad.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't move in those worlds, you know, Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: So anyway, you didn't tell me what you thought of Housemaid, right, Oh, no,
Speaker 2: I liked it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just was in the mood for a I
Speaker 3: don't even know how to describe it, Like I just
Speaker 3: always think of like, yeah, like Airport novel, you know.
Speaker 2: Or like Lifetime movie energy Yeah, yeah, a little more.
Speaker 3: Sophisticated in that, but like budget but you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: like hand the Rocks the Cradle. You said that was
Speaker 3: the perfect cop I think when you said that, like
Speaker 3: just that kind of domestic something weird is going on,
Speaker 3: escalating tension, you know, what's the mystery that we don't
Speaker 3: you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be the big blow up at the end. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and by the way. I don't even mean Lifetime movie
Speaker 2: as a pejorative because my feeling is once you start
Speaker 2: watching one of them, you will finish it. Oh sure, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've used this example many a time where I was
Speaker 2: channel surfing past Lifetime and they had this. It was
Speaker 2: called The Wife He Met Online? Right, And I remember
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there and Amina was in the kitchen. I'm like,
Speaker 2: this the Wife he Met Online? Too. I'm gonna watch
Speaker 2: a few minutes of this, and then like ninety minutes later,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's gonna happen to the wife you met online? Yeah? Right, right, right,
Speaker 2: she's gonna do you know? Well, by the way, it
Speaker 2: was directed by Paul fig Yeah, that's that's kind of
Speaker 2: a switch, right, right. He's had a very interesting career.
Speaker 3: I mean he went from being Sabrina's high school teacher
Speaker 3: to directing the Ghostbuster's remake and The Housemaid and Bridesmaids
Speaker 3: and you know, Spy and The Heat, The Heat, yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: and then the Simple Favor movies.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's it's.
Speaker 3: Kind of cool, like he's carved out, like I like,
Speaker 3: it's always a bummer when people get like boxed in,
Speaker 3: like oh, you're the comedy guy, so you can't do
Speaker 3: a thriller, but then it can. It makes me think
Speaker 3: of Jordan Peel a little bit right where he's the
Speaker 3: comedy guy Kem Peel and now he's he got to
Speaker 3: make his horror movie and right out of the gate
Speaker 3: he gets nominated for an Oscar and now he gets
Speaker 3: to be comedy guy when he wants.
Speaker 2: He gets to be horror guy when he wants.
Speaker 3: And it seems like the kind of likes these thrillers,
Speaker 3: but he also does comedy really well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but yeah, what about you? Well, speaking of
Speaker 2: comedy real quick, I wanted to mention just a couple
Speaker 2: of days ago, Aman and I we went to San
Speaker 2: Jose and we saw Josh Johnson perform oh at the
Speaker 2: San Jose Improv So Josh Johnson, he's kind of he's
Speaker 2: like he's on the rise. He's one of these up
Speaker 2: and coming comedians. He's one of the Daily Show crew.
Speaker 2: So he'll be hosting that show one, you know, a
Speaker 2: week a month. Okay, I just looked him up. I yeah,
Speaker 2: I recognize him. He's hilarious and every week on his
Speaker 2: YouTube channel he has a brand new hour long set
Speaker 2: that drops every week. Oh wow, it's extraordinary. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, the level of hustle it takes to coming up,
Speaker 2: be coming up with material, and and you know, I
Speaker 2: was this is like last fall. I'm and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: we should we should try to see him, you know.
Speaker 2: And I just happened to look up. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: he's coming in May. Let's you know, and I'm locked
Speaker 2: in the ticket. That was very grateful for that. It's
Speaker 2: just he's hilarious and so I I want to like
Speaker 2: put the word out. Check out his YouTube channel as
Speaker 2: Josh Johnson h hour long set drops usually I think
Speaker 2: it's like every Tuesday night, okay. And and he's very funny,
Speaker 2: very smart, you know. It's it's a it's a very
Speaker 2: different style of comedy that I I really enjoy quite
Speaker 2: a bit. You know. He talks about current events, but
Speaker 2: he does it in a very wise way, very funny,
Speaker 2: but with a lot of sophistication. Okay, you know, definitely
Speaker 2: worth a look. I've also just recently, kind of on
Speaker 2: a lark, I've started watching the show Gotham.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was on Fox, right, it was on Fox like.
Speaker 2: Twelve years ago. That's when it started. And we watched.
Speaker 2: I remember we talked about it on this show when
Speaker 2: it first started. We both kind of dipped after the
Speaker 2: first few episodes. Yeah, and you know what I watched,
Speaker 2: So Ben mackenzie, who stars on the show, he plays
Speaker 2: Jim Gordon. I watched the documentary that he directed and
Speaker 2: appears in called Everyone Is Lying to You for Money,
Speaker 2: which is about crypto. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've read that he's outspoken about that, but I haven't
Speaker 3: seen anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he's like before he got into acting, he
Speaker 2: studied economics, so you know, he's got the cred for that.
Speaker 2: And so I saw that movie last in the last
Speaker 2: summer because I was coming here for the Mill Valley
Speaker 2: Film Festival and I do I do show notes for
Speaker 2: that and I loved it. And so now it's the
Speaker 2: movie is getting ready to come out. So he's been
Speaker 2: all over the place just making the rounds. I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I just I like, I've always
Speaker 2: liked Ben McKenzie, even on The O C which is
Speaker 2: trash TV. He was good on it, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and on Southland, which is terrific, a terrific cop show.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, I was just kind of
Speaker 2: in the mood for something Batman related that I haven't seen,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm you know, and I'm liking
Speaker 2: Ben Mackenzie. I was like, let me give this show
Speaker 2: a shot, you know, and and I'm like five episodes
Speaker 2: deep and and so far, I have to admit, I am.
Speaker 2: I am enjoying it as just kind of a crazy,
Speaker 2: weird take on the whole Batman universe that's just doing
Speaker 2: its own thing. It's it's it's fun. I've been enjoying it,
Speaker 2: that's all. Isn't that funny?
Speaker 3: Like sometimes it takes some distance maybe, right, Like I
Speaker 3: mean I had that with The Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles,
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, where when it aired. I watched the
Speaker 3: pilot and I just I don't know what it was,
Speaker 3: but my brain rejected this network television take on the
Speaker 3: Terminator story, right yeah. But then I mean mine was
Speaker 3: like decades later. I was just really thirsty for some
Speaker 3: more Terminator stories and I watched it and it took
Speaker 3: a second to calibrate to you know, it's what it
Speaker 3: was able to do with a network TV budget and whatever.
Speaker 2: And it's what it was crying to do and what
Speaker 2: it was trying to do.
Speaker 3: But then I got really into it, and then I
Speaker 3: was sad that it was only like a season and
Speaker 3: a half.
Speaker 2: Or whatever it was.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, sometimes it just takes a little distance
Speaker 3: and then you can appreciate it for what it is.
Speaker 2: That that was literally me where I was sitting there.
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, here's like a hundred episodes
Speaker 2: of this Batman thing that I've never seen. Mm hm,
Speaker 2: you know. And so all that is to say, Mackenzie
Speaker 2: as great as Jim Gordon, you know. And and in
Speaker 2: my head canon, I see him as becoming the pat
Speaker 2: Hingle Jim Gordon, and that makes me laugh. It's just
Speaker 2: so hard to you know, because now we think of
Speaker 2: Jim Gordon as kind of this badass cop and I
Speaker 2: would say Gary, yeah, yeah, you know so, but but
Speaker 2: I see it as no, no, that's that's the pat
Speaker 2: Hingele Gordon. And so the journey and I guess there
Speaker 2: is going to be fascinating, you know, it's really funny.
Speaker 2: And then and then I here's something we both saw
Speaker 2: a little documentary about Lorne Michaels called appropriately Enough Lorne. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and and I was watching this and and I was
Speaker 2: as I was watching it, I was thinking of you
Speaker 2: to some extent because I was like, I, I know,
Speaker 2: we plug into this stuff in the same way in
Speaker 2: that we are we are we are SNL aficionados mm hmmmmm,
Speaker 2: total nerds for it, very very much so, right, And
Speaker 2: And one thing I do think about is I don't
Speaker 2: know how big of a demographic that is, Like I
Speaker 2: don't know the cultural weight that SNL has with like
Speaker 2: kids these days, you know, right, right, And I do
Speaker 2: I do think about that, and so so for for
Speaker 2: a documentary like this, it it and I want to
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts. I was like, a lot of this
Speaker 2: I already know because I've imbibed so much SNL history,
Speaker 2: But I was delighted by the new nuances that were
Speaker 2: illuminated and just seeing all the people that are interviewed,
Speaker 2: and really painting a portrait of a guy who who,
Speaker 2: I think, just in terms of what this show represents,
Speaker 2: is a very seminal important figure in TV history, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and who's still somehow kind of mysterious exactly yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, even seemingly to the people who are work
Speaker 3: very closely with him. Right, So, any new information you
Speaker 3: get about this guy is always kind of fascinating because,
Speaker 3: like you said, I mean, he is just like a
Speaker 3: seminal figure in comedy for like fifty plus years or
Speaker 3: whatever it is, you know, so it's he remains intriguing,
Speaker 3: I know, certainly to us, and I agree with you.
Speaker 2: This was.
Speaker 3: A documentary. They showed it in theaters. You and I
Speaker 3: both saw it in a theater about thirty or forty
Speaker 3: minutes in. I actually thought like, oh, this could have
Speaker 3: been like a peacock. Absolutely sort of.
Speaker 2: It feels like, just as a courtesy to Lorne, they
Speaker 2: put it in theaters.
Speaker 3: Yes, so you know, I actually I don't think it's
Speaker 3: out anymore. So I'm just what I'm saying is, if
Speaker 3: you did wait for it to stream somewhere, you know,
Speaker 3: that would be just fine. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: I would say past the halfway mark, even though it
Speaker 3: did cover a lot of ground that you and I
Speaker 3: already know, then they give you a really great behind
Speaker 3: the scenes glimpse of Lorne overseeing an episode.
Speaker 2: That was my favorite portion of that.
Speaker 3: That's what made it all worth it to me, because
Speaker 3: we don't have a lot of that. I mean, one
Speaker 3: of the best examples we have so far is that
Speaker 3: James Franco directed documentary that he.
Speaker 2: Made, right, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where he literally just had like a cam quarter
Speaker 3: and he filmed a week of SNL and he got
Speaker 3: to wander into the writer's rooms and see what they're
Speaker 3: up to and the table. Thanks thanks to that documentary,
Speaker 3: we have some record of the great never Filmed Empire
Speaker 3: carpet sketch with John Malkovich. Yeah, he's playing or he's
Speaker 3: singing the five eight eight two three hundred.
Speaker 2: Like over and over and over again the director.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like that kind of intimate behind the scenes stuff. Surprisingly,
Speaker 3: we don't have a ton of it. Yeah, right, And
Speaker 3: so this documentary Lorne I thought was really valuable because
Speaker 3: it gave us more of that and then a better
Speaker 3: you know, video quality, you know, right, And so we
Speaker 3: actually get to see a Ryan Gosling episode behind the
Speaker 3: scenes of it, and we see Lorne, you know, you
Speaker 3: always hear he watches the episodes under the Bleachers, and
Speaker 3: so I knew that that happened, and sometimes he was
Speaker 3: happy and sometimes he was frustrated. But we actually get
Speaker 3: to see it now and you hear I don't remember
Speaker 3: who it is, but one of the cast or someone
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, when he's frustrated, he starts. He's next
Speaker 3: to like an ice bucket with with drinks in it,
Speaker 3: and if he gets mad, he.
Speaker 2: Throws the ice.
Speaker 3: And so hearing that, I was like, oh, that's fascinating.
Speaker 3: But then they actually show it, like you see him
Speaker 3: watching something and people are either flubbing lines or the
Speaker 3: timing's not working, and he picks up the ice and
Speaker 3: just throws it, and you're like, oh, like well.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and Seth Myers talks about how like you
Speaker 2: knows he's upset when he goes yeah, and we just
Speaker 2: we just have this montage of him doing that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so then seeing him which is we know that
Speaker 3: any Gosling episode is a good one, right, Like these
Speaker 3: are like beloved, right, But it's fascinating watching he's we
Speaker 3: should say, he's watching the dress rehearsal, not the actual
Speaker 3: episode that aired, but he's frustrated and it's not going
Speaker 3: the way that he'd like it to go. And so
Speaker 3: then after the dress rehearsal, we get to see him
Speaker 3: sit on the stage and like address the troops basically,
Speaker 3: which was interesting to me because these are you know,
Speaker 3: big comedy superstars of this moment, right, Like, so we
Speaker 3: think of them as these big like titans of comedy
Speaker 3: in a certain sort of way, or at least in
Speaker 3: their arena. And they look like high school students that
Speaker 3: are being like lectured by their principal because they've let
Speaker 3: him down, right, And it was really interesting to see.
Speaker 3: I almost felt myself kind of cowering also, just sort
Speaker 3: of like, oh, this is an uncomfortable feeling. But then
Speaker 3: he lets them know he's disappointed. But then he rallies
Speaker 3: the troops and he's like, but you're the you're the best,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was a fascinating glimpse and I for me, that
Speaker 3: made it completely worth it. And all the stuff that
Speaker 3: they retread a little bit is still great.
Speaker 2: It is and and you know the thought I had
Speaker 2: watching it, I well, well, two thoughts. Number one, you
Speaker 2: get you see all these people interviewed from across the
Speaker 2: last fifty years, right yeah, so you get your your
Speaker 2: Mike Myers, and then you get your you know, Chevy's
Speaker 2: and Chevy's interviewed in there, right yep, you know, and
Speaker 2: then up to now and recent you know, and you
Speaker 2: at one point you've got you know, Mulaney and Bill
Speaker 2: Hayter and Fed Armisen sitting around a table, and first
Speaker 2: of all, I'm like, what, man, I'd love to just
Speaker 2: be sitting at that table, right, yep. Ye A Conan
Speaker 2: is interviewed, and you're like, every single one of these
Speaker 2: people Lorne Michael sprinkled fairy dust on their life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and and like and Conan has said as much, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, like, here's a guy literally think
Speaker 2: about that one. One day he's he's one of a
Speaker 2: dozen Simpsons writers, having briefly worked at SNL, and then
Speaker 2: and then he's hosting you know, he's replacing Letterman and
Speaker 2: and and here's a career that is still going, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and where would he be if not for Loren Michaels
Speaker 2: When it came to the Late Late Night Show? He
Speaker 2: was like, how about Conan? Mm hmm. And that's it,
Speaker 2: you know, so all of these people he's affected, and
Speaker 2: so he has he has shaped a a half century
Speaker 2: of comedy, and as a result, he will shape the
Speaker 2: next half century, even if he's not around for it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a good point. And then that made me, you know,
Speaker 2: and mulaney has has an interview where he talks about
Speaker 2: that realization of like like Lauren's not going to be
Speaker 2: around forever, you know. And and I had that realization
Speaker 2: earlier in the film where you see him as you know,
Speaker 2: you know, we contrast his his earlier era, his pre
Speaker 2: SNL era. But he even like during the early days
Speaker 2: of SNL where he's the young guy, he's the you know,
Speaker 2: Gabriel LaBelle and in that Rightman movie, right m And
Speaker 2: then now he's you know, he's an eighty year old man.
Speaker 2: He's shuffling around and you're like, man, you know, time
Speaker 2: comes for us all, you know, yep, And and and
Speaker 2: what what is SNL without Lorne Michaels what you know?
Speaker 2: We we they've they tried that before, yes, and it
Speaker 2: didn't work, you know. Yeah, And you know, I don't
Speaker 2: remember who says it. It may have been Milleni.
Speaker 3: People are always wondering if he'll retire, and someone says, no,
Speaker 3: he won't leave because he's from another time. This SNL,
Speaker 3: what they do, how they do it is from another time,
Speaker 3: and he's the protector.
Speaker 2: Yeah of that. And I thought that was kind of fascinating,
Speaker 2: like yeah, I mean, it's it's I mean, there is
Speaker 2: that Like I had that that realization, like, well, he's
Speaker 2: gonna be gone at some point and and whatever happens,
Speaker 2: it's going to be different.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's a bit like like there's going to be more
Speaker 2: James Bond movies, right, But what those movies were and
Speaker 2: what they represented is over forever, sure, and that makes
Speaker 2: me sad. And SNL post Lorne Michaels is going to
Speaker 2: be the same, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's what I love about what
Speaker 3: it is now is they find ways to have the
Speaker 3: humor represent the moment and find cast members who represent
Speaker 3: the moment. But there's still that sort of old school
Speaker 3: variety show charm that's never gone away from it, that
Speaker 3: keeps it from being like the hip modern show. But
Speaker 3: that's what makes it so special. I agree, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: the combination of all those things.
Speaker 2: Last night's episode, first of two things, I didn't know
Speaker 2: who was hosting it, and I happened to turn to
Speaker 2: tune in. They do like a live stream of the
Speaker 2: monologue on YouTube, and I reached that point where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't know who that is Olivia Rodriguez. It was
Speaker 2: Olivia rodrigu Yeah, yeah, no idea who she was. But
Speaker 2: SNL did give me the thing I've been waiting more
Speaker 2: than a year for which was as He's I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: as Cash Battel. Yes, that's all. I've only seen the
Speaker 2: opening sketch so far. I was like, if SNL does
Speaker 2: not get Tom Haverford to play Cash Battel, that will
Speaker 2: be malpractice. So I was very happy about that. There's
Speaker 2: a very funny sketch. It's another Ashley Padilla showcase. You
Speaker 2: got to check it out. It's it's called like the
Speaker 2: X or something like that.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I mean that's my plan. Later today, I'll
Speaker 3: have my coffee and watch that. And by the way,
Speaker 3: I caught a little bit of the movie Good Fortune Again,
Speaker 3: which was written directed by Azi's and stars him and
Speaker 3: Seth Rogan and Kanu Reeves. That's just a fun, charming
Speaker 3: little movie. And so I know I talked about it
Speaker 3: before and said that it was good, but I'm just
Speaker 3: reminding people, like, if you haven't seen that, that is
Speaker 3: a great little rental. I think they just don't make
Speaker 3: them like it is streaming at this point. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: think sadly. I saw it in the theater and by
Speaker 3: the time I talked about it on the show, it
Speaker 3: was already streaming.
Speaker 2: It was one of those that was what happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but that's just a it just feels kind
Speaker 3: of like an old school wish fulfillment comedy and Counta
Speaker 3: Reeves is so perfectly utilized in that movie.
Speaker 2: It's just it. I liked that movie a lot, So
Speaker 2: just re recommending that there we go, moving on. Hey,
Speaker 2: we got some headlines Brian extract of a little bit
Speaker 2: of sad news just to start things off. But I
Speaker 2: did want to mention that Jerry Conway has passed away
Speaker 2: legendary comic book and television writer. Certainly as far as
Speaker 2: my life growing up as a comic book fan and
Speaker 2: a procedural television fan, my many fandoms have been touched
Speaker 2: by his work. He had legendary on The Amazing Spider Man.
Speaker 2: He actually after stan Lee, he was he had the
Speaker 2: longest run after stan Lee during that initial era. He
Speaker 2: broke into comics at age nineteen, if you can Wow,
Speaker 2: and by the time he was in his early twenties
Speaker 2: he had created The Punisher, Oh Wow. And he wrote
Speaker 2: the story that saw Gwen Stacy killed off, one of
Speaker 2: the most iconic Spider Man stories, and it was adapted
Speaker 2: on the screen in Amazing Spider Man two, and in
Speaker 2: addition to that, he created a character called Firestorm from DC,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure you can picture him in your head,
Speaker 2: and just really an incredibly diverse body of work at
Speaker 2: both DC and Marvel, and then later he wrote for
Speaker 2: the Transformers animated television series. He wrote for Law and
Speaker 2: Order in television, he wrote for Criminal Intent. He was
Speaker 2: seventy three years old, died of paint creatic cancer. Seventy
Speaker 2: three is to yeah, and what what really, you know,
Speaker 2: it really gets to me is that just a few
Speaker 2: months ago, I was down in LA visiting you, and
Speaker 2: I happened to see a notification that there was he
Speaker 2: was doing a signing right, you know, maybe maybe about
Speaker 2: an hour or so from where you live, and they
Speaker 2: build it as his last signing. And I didn't give
Speaker 2: too much thought about it, but I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I wish I had brought something. It would have been cool,
Speaker 2: you know, to have that opportunity, and then just kind
Speaker 2: of left it at that. And then you know a
Speaker 2: few months later, we get this news. Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: this is you know, I was having this discussion with
Speaker 2: my brother just yesterday that the comic book creators the
Speaker 2: Legends of our lifetime are slowly but surely leaving us,
Speaker 2: and that that's very much the case when you look at,
Speaker 2: you know, somebody like Jerry Conway, who was you know,
Speaker 2: kind of a boy wonder and so you know, he
Speaker 2: was relatively young while producing just just a mammoth body
Speaker 2: of work. And it makes me deeply sad not only
Speaker 2: to see him gone, not only to know that he
Speaker 2: will no longer be creating work, but also what it
Speaker 2: represents in terms of, you know, these these legends who
Speaker 2: are leaving.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, man, I mean, it's it's funny. I had
Speaker 3: so many thoughts as you were talking about him. One
Speaker 3: brought me back to what we were saying about Paul
Speaker 3: fig where it's like he gets to do the comedy thing,
Speaker 3: he gets to do the sort of thriller thing he
Speaker 3: gets to It's kind of nice how.
Speaker 2: He hasn't been put into a box.
Speaker 3: And it's amazing that Conway like got to do these
Speaker 3: iconic comic book stories, but he also wrote for procedurals
Speaker 3: in law and order, and like he just all the
Speaker 3: things in his imagination. The way that he got to
Speaker 3: express them and let them out, that's really awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And and as I sit here recording with you
Speaker 2: glance to my right and I look at my shelf
Speaker 2: and there's just a shelf full of Spider Man comic
Speaker 2: books that he wrote. And you know, there is something
Speaker 2: to be said for the idea that his work will
Speaker 2: live on as long as these characters exist. You know,
Speaker 2: the Disney Plus has a brand new Punisher special dropping
Speaker 2: in just a few weeks as we're recording this, and
Speaker 2: you know that character is certainly as iconic as the
Speaker 2: top tier Marvel characters. And he sprang from from Jerry
Speaker 2: Conway's imagination, right, he will be missed. A true, a
Speaker 2: true legend. Yeah, here's some other news, Brian, while we're
Speaker 2: talking about comic books. It's a story that began its
Speaker 2: life as a comic book, right, and it might just
Speaker 2: be comingto the screen. This felt like a prank to
Speaker 2: me almost. It hasn't.
Speaker 3: The most recent Quentin Tarantino news in the last year
Speaker 3: or so. All felt like April Fool's Day sorts of jokes.
Speaker 2: Well, any Tarantino news that doesn't involve him running roughshod
Speaker 2: over random character actor, Yeah, random actors he despises is
Speaker 2: a win. So this is reported by Deadline last week,
Speaker 2: and it says that Sony Pictures moving forward with a
Speaker 2: most intriguing movie mashup. The studio has set Academy Award
Speaker 2: winner Brian Helgeland, he of La Confidential Fame, to write
Speaker 2: Django Zoro for a big screen continuation of a story
Speaker 2: that was hatched in a seven issue crossover comic book
Speaker 2: series co written by Quentin Tarantino and Matt Wagner published
Speaker 2: by Dynamite Entertainment. The comic was published back in twenty
Speaker 2: fourteen is considered maybe the closest Tarantino might come to
Speaker 2: a sequel in the continuation of the adventures of the
Speaker 2: slave turned bounty hunter played by Jamie Fox in the
Speaker 2: twenty twelve film Jango and Change. Tarantino directed that film
Speaker 2: but won't helm this one, though. I understand that this
Speaker 2: film has his blessing to move forward at Sony, where
Speaker 2: he's expected to make his final film as a director.
Speaker 3: And you know what I mean with the April fools
Speaker 3: Day thing, because the last thing I'm thinking of is
Speaker 3: the Adventures of Cliff Booth.
Speaker 2: That certainly felt like an April fools thing.
Speaker 3: Right where it's like, oh, there's going to be a
Speaker 3: sequel to Once upon a time in Hollywood, and Tarantino's
Speaker 3: gonna write it, but David Fincher's going to direct it,
Speaker 3: and it's going to be on Netflix, and like what
Speaker 3: like I just did not compute, but in that news
Speaker 3: did drop on April Fool's Day, I think because everyone
Speaker 3: thought it was a joke, it turns out it was real.
Speaker 3: Then here we go, We're getting a Django sequel that
Speaker 3: he is not going to even participate in but has
Speaker 3: his blessing. That just feels, I don't know, it seems
Speaker 3: like he is very precious.
Speaker 2: About his world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that he's created, and so it's interesting
Speaker 3: that he's allowing these other people to create stories in them.
Speaker 3: I guess just to keep him away from making accidentally
Speaker 3: making movie number eleven or something.
Speaker 2: I were weirdly benefiting from that. Yeah, yeah, right, which
Speaker 2: I've been saying for a while. He needs He is
Speaker 2: so far up his own asshole when it comes to that.
Speaker 2: I like, oh, no, I'm on the making ten all right,
Speaker 2: really stop. But but you know, for for years and years,
Speaker 2: for decades, they had talked about doing the Vega Brothers.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that m m Yeah, which would have
Speaker 2: teamed Michael madd since Vic Vega with John Travolta's Vincent Vega,
Speaker 2: but of course even before Michael Madson passed away. I mean,
Speaker 2: just time had worked against that movie existing because Vincent dies.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, right right, you know that's a problem,
Speaker 2: so you had to do it within a certain amount
Speaker 2: of time. I forget what happens to Vic? Is he
Speaker 2: alive at the Reservoir Ducks. I have not watched that
Speaker 2: in so long, That's what I'm saying. It's been it's
Speaker 2: been decades since.
Speaker 3: I think most people do not make it out alive
Speaker 3: of that movie.
Speaker 2: That's my memory. It's it's been a very long time.
Speaker 2: But regardless, the window closed on that. And I think
Speaker 2: to your point, like he's so like, no, I have
Speaker 2: to be very specific about my projects. So I think,
Speaker 2: you know, had had the timing been different, the Vega
Speaker 2: Brothers would have been made by somebody else with his blessing.
Speaker 2: That's kind of my point. And that's what it feels
Speaker 2: like the Cliff Booth, which I am super excited to
Speaker 2: see me too, Yeah, I love that world, all right,
Speaker 2: So this I'm like, man pour it into my veins?
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3: I mean, not only did I ever think we'd get
Speaker 3: a Django sequel, period, a Jangle sequel, not even from
Speaker 3: Tarantino himself, period, but Django teaming up.
Speaker 2: With Zoro, Like I just knocked me up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was not on my bingo card, but that
Speaker 3: is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Helgelind, who is a very talented director in
Speaker 2: his own right, I would love to see him take
Speaker 2: it on. I mean he's writing it at the moment,
Speaker 2: but you know he did Payback, which is terrific. Did
Speaker 2: Payback run Away? Did Braveheart run Away? Did Payback run Away?
Speaker 2: You know? It's funny.
Speaker 3: This just makes sense to me and feels like the
Speaker 3: natural next evolution where how many more things can we remake?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, how many times can we keep remaking certain movies
Speaker 3: over and over again? So at this point, I think
Speaker 3: we're entering the like, Okay, I think everything that can
Speaker 3: exist already exists now, so let's just throw it in
Speaker 3: a blender together and see what happens.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Man, So like me, give
Speaker 2: me Jango Transformers next exactly. That's exactly what I mean.
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I mean this reminds me.
Speaker 3: It feels like speaking of Sony, Actually, maybe they were
Speaker 3: ahead of the curve several years back when they were
Speaker 3: going to make the twenty one Jump Street meets Men
Speaker 3: in Black movie. Yeah, that's right, which sounded crazy at
Speaker 3: the time but also intriguing to me. And now I
Speaker 3: feel like that seems less crazy and more likely we're
Speaker 3: more likely to see something like that happened, you know,
Speaker 3: because they've tried to reboot Men in Black and it
Speaker 3: didn't work. So just why not just then take Men
Speaker 3: in Black and then.
Speaker 2: Stick it awkwardly.
Speaker 3: To some other property that Sony owns, you know, like
Speaker 3: let's I don't know, let's see how that goes.
Speaker 2: So I mean, there is a very long way before
Speaker 2: this goes, you know, it gets to anywhere shooting ready,
Speaker 2: but I will certainly be monitoring this. Yeah, no, I'm
Speaker 2: totally into it.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've been watching the Zoro movies for our
Speaker 3: commentaries in the past couple of years, and revisiting them
Speaker 3: is really you know, made me want to watch more Zoro.
Speaker 2: So what I'm saying, bring it, bring it on, totally,
Speaker 2: bring it on. What can we bring what can we
Speaker 2: bring it on? Maybe seven I'm definitely down for that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have to track down a serial killer before
Speaker 3: they get to their cheerleading competition.
Speaker 2: You know what pitch it. It seems like they're they're
Speaker 2: up for anything these days. Yeah, this is Sony in
Speaker 2: the aftermath of all those Spider Man spin offs not
Speaker 2: not doing anything. This is this is sort of their
Speaker 2: their desperation turned. They're like, Okay, well what what what
Speaker 2: cinematic universe can we build? Yeah, some somehow, somehow we're
Speaker 2: gonna end up getting Django Zoro because Madam Webb tanked. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can trace it back. That's Those are the multiversal
Speaker 2: strands that we're living living in right now.
Speaker 3: You know we we used to like kind of dunk
Speaker 3: a little bit on Sony for a time, but like
Speaker 3: they really are in this moment where we're thinking about
Speaker 3: the importance of theater going. Yeah, you know, that has
Speaker 3: been a big priority for them, and so I think
Speaker 3: that's commendable.
Speaker 2: Well, a couple things when it comes to Sony Number one,
Speaker 2: you know, the head headed by Tom Rothman who was
Speaker 2: at Fox right before and and he was sort of
Speaker 2: notorious during his Fox era for being really stingy with
Speaker 2: the budgets, and that mentality may have ended up benefiting
Speaker 2: him more at Sony m M. Yeah, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of keeping the budgets tight and diversifying your portfolio so
Speaker 2: to speak, allows for you able to take more swings
Speaker 2: with less, like you know, do or Die releases, you know, right.
Speaker 2: And the other thing is that in the streaming wars,
Speaker 2: Sony very smartly said, we're just going to be an
Speaker 2: arms dealer rather than trying to start our own thing up.
Speaker 2: And so I think that, I mean, I mean, look
Speaker 2: at the it's it's I mean, we're headed towards a
Speaker 2: bloodbath when it comes to streaming services, just dropping left
Speaker 2: and right, you know, I know, I know, I think
Speaker 2: that's just a matter of time. We're gonna have a
Speaker 2: Spirit Airlines situation where people are just gonna log into
Speaker 2: Peacock and be like, sorry, Peacock doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be surprised. At some point Peacock is losing
Speaker 2: like half a billion dollars a year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember hearing that like years back. I mean,
Speaker 3: it hasn't improved, you know. Yeah, And it's tough because
Speaker 3: I know, you know, they have that Ted show and
Speaker 3: it's funny. It's this weird double edged sword where they
Speaker 3: have Ted and I like Ted.
Speaker 2: I've talked about it on here.
Speaker 3: But that show is so expensive to produce because Ted
Speaker 3: is a special effect in every episode, right, I think
Speaker 3: each episode costs around eight million dollars to produce, and
Speaker 3: that's just not sustainable for them. However, it has been
Speaker 3: one of their most popular shows. It's garnered the most
Speaker 3: minutes viewed for them. So what do you do? You know,
Speaker 3: like if you're bleeding money, but that's the show people
Speaker 3: are showing up for, but you can't afford to do it.
Speaker 3: I don't know it Just you're right, like Sony's playing
Speaker 3: the smart game right to just be like, hey, we
Speaker 3: make this stuff, you deal, you know, we'll license it
Speaker 3: out to you and we don't have to worry about
Speaker 3: running and programming a whole streamer.
Speaker 2: Fundamentally, what this all illustrates is it's I mean, it's
Speaker 2: what I've been saying for goddamn more than ten years
Speaker 2: that the streaming arms race is not sustainable. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: at some point you run out of potential subscribers and
Speaker 2: then how do you monetize, right, Right, So, looking at
Speaker 2: Ted as one example, at some point you're going to
Speaker 2: get all the Peacock subscribers you're gonna get, right, and
Speaker 2: that show just sits there and you have no way
Speaker 2: to make money off of it because it's too raunchy
Speaker 2: for network. And even if it weren't, there's not enough
Speaker 2: episodes to syndicate, right, you're actively choosing not to release
Speaker 2: things on physical media. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's just the whole point, the
Speaker 2: whole point of the TV economy was always we create
Speaker 2: the product and we allow for multiple revenue streams to
Speaker 2: continue making money off of it. And that's the system.
Speaker 2: That was the network model that's worked for decades, and
Speaker 2: it worked just fine. It worked for everybody. Maybe not perfectly,
Speaker 2: but it worked, right, What do you do here? You know,
Speaker 2: like Paramount has something similar going on, where, you know,
Speaker 2: they've got all these Star Trek shows that they made
Speaker 2: are now gradually ending, you know, and at most they've
Speaker 2: made sixty episodes and at least twenty episodes. What do
Speaker 2: you do with those? You know? Right? Right? And those
Speaker 2: shows at least you have the opportunity to put it
Speaker 2: on physical because presumably you're going to get the Trek
Speaker 2: Collectors or whatever. But again, their episodes are too long
Speaker 2: to cut down for network or or linear airing. I'm
Speaker 2: just how do you make like just just dollars and cents?
Speaker 2: How do you make money off of this stuff? License
Speaker 2: it to Netflix? Ultimately, that's what is going to come
Speaker 2: down to for a lot of this stuff, I think. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: I mean Sony has the Spider Noir television show.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, very my friends
Speaker 3: worked on that, had a vote worked on that really?
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, yeah, that's of course the Nicholas Cage Spider
Speaker 2: Man character. This is a variant of him, but they're
Speaker 2: doing in live action. Yeah, but it's it's all stylish
Speaker 2: sin City looking. Yeah, it would be interesting, you know.
Speaker 2: But again, so Sony licensed it to a prime video
Speaker 2: that's where it will be, you know. Yeah, smart way
Speaker 2: to approach it. Speaking of making money, though, I thought
Speaker 2: this was worth having a conversation about. But I feel
Speaker 2: like some music should be playing ran just for old
Speaker 2: time sake. So The Mandalorian and Grogu is very shortly
Speaker 2: due to hit theaters less than a month. Wow, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're like we're like sixteen days away as we record.
Speaker 2: This the first Star Wars movie in theaters since Rise
Speaker 2: of Skywalker Wow, twenty nineteen, which is yeah, that's pretty banana.
Speaker 2: So that is what are we looking at seven years? Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: just about right, it's just about yeah, pre pandemic, pre pandemic. Obviously,
Speaker 2: there have been you know, just several several seasons of
Speaker 2: television dropped on Disney Plus since then, all of which
Speaker 2: have have certainly impacted the brand value of Star Wars
Speaker 2: to varying extents. But here we go. Now we're testing
Speaker 2: the proposition that Star Wars is still bulletproof at the
Speaker 2: box office. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. So this
Speaker 2: is a courtesy of Hollywood Reporter. If pre release tracking
Speaker 2: is right, the John Favora directed movie, a continuation of
Speaker 2: his Disney Plus series The Mandalorian, will open in the
Speaker 2: eighty million dollar range at the domestic box office over
Speaker 2: the long forty Memorialty weekend, according one source with access
Speaker 2: to the data. That's in line with the expectations from
Speaker 2: Lucasfilm and Disney. According to insiders, so eighty million dollars
Speaker 2: for a Star Wars movie. Now, first of all, I
Speaker 2: should say that that eighty million could grow. Oh, absolutely sure,
Speaker 2: you know, and I suspect that this is This is
Speaker 2: why I suspect that it will grow because I think
Speaker 2: I think once the marketing campaign kicks in, there's going
Speaker 2: to be a lit of like, I want to watch
Speaker 2: Star Wars in the theater again, totally, you know, and
Speaker 2: they're obviously going to lean hard into all the all
Speaker 2: the nostalgic you know, Oh, there's an atst and here's
Speaker 2: a here's an X wing or whatever, you know, whatever,
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that's getting me. Yeah, well, exactly right.
Speaker 2: And so my question to you you can look at
Speaker 2: that number and be like, hey, all right, or you
Speaker 2: can look at it and be like, well, stick a
Speaker 2: fork in this thing.
Speaker 3: I think you have to realize that this isn't twenty
Speaker 3: nineteen anymore. You know, A lot has changed. And Okay, actually,
Speaker 3: just out of curiosity, I was like, what's the closest
Speaker 3: Star Wars comp for this right theatrically, which would be Solo?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: So I googled what did Solo open to at the
Speaker 3: box office? And what comes up this is Google AI
Speaker 3: Overview Solo open to a disappointing eighty four million.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind. I was like, here's me pulling my collar.
Speaker 2: I know, but this is in twenty eighteen, right when
Speaker 2: Star Wars was also solo, cost eleventy b jillion dollars.
Speaker 3: Yes, they had a lot of crazy circumstances going on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know what the budget is of Mandalorian and Grogu.
Speaker 3: Hopefully they had expectations in mind a little bit, kept
Speaker 3: things in check, but I don't know. I mean in
Speaker 3: this day and age, I mean, what did Mario open to.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question.
Speaker 3: Galaxy opening box office? Oh well, this is worldwide. Okay,
Speaker 3: well it's probably not the best three Okay, well, one
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty one million three day weekend in the
Speaker 3: US domestic, domestic, worldwide, it's like almost like a third
Speaker 3: of a billion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's it's a It's an interesting thing to think about
Speaker 3: because if there was any sort of guarantee twenty nineteen
Speaker 3: and before, it was that Star Wars was going to
Speaker 3: be a gargantuan opening. So now, no matter what on paper,
Speaker 3: it's going to look disappointing. However, in the land, you know,
Speaker 3: this changed landscape, maybe it will be a success.
Speaker 2: It just looks different. Now right, So it has a
Speaker 2: budget of one hundred and sixty five million dollars. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
Speaker 3: The others probably cost like two hundred plus three hundred
Speaker 3: probably more, right.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the and the mindset was like, you know,
Speaker 2: Star Wars is a license to print money, so just whatever,
Speaker 2: spend whatever you want to spend, which you know, we're
Speaker 2: we're not living in that reality anymore. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously this is going to come down to reviews and
Speaker 2: word of mouth and all of those things. But eighty again,
Speaker 2: I suspect that the projections will grow as the movie
Speaker 2: gets closer. That's kind of where I'm at. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be surprised if it landed somewhere in the hundred million
Speaker 2: dollar range when all of a sudden done, Okay, domestic
Speaker 2: domestically opening weekend, and just for reference, Devilwar's product too
Speaker 2: opened this weekend, and that opened at seventy seven million domestics,
Speaker 2: which not bad. Yeah, but I don't think Devil is
Speaker 2: product to cost one hundred and sixty five million dollars.
Speaker 3: True, but just in terms of how many people are
Speaker 3: showing up. Yeah, not thinking about company's bottom lines or anything,
Speaker 3: but like yeah, audience.
Speaker 2: Anticipation, whatever, interest. These big brands aren't a sure thing anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't even think Avengers Doomsday is going to open
Speaker 2: anywhere near end game levels. Sure, sure, right, so it
Speaker 2: is kind of a different reality. I'm curious though, And look,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I mean, I want
Speaker 2: Star Wars to do well, So I'm hoping. I'm hoping
Speaker 2: it's good more than anything, you know. And if it's good,
Speaker 2: I wanted to do well. If it's not good, I
Speaker 2: don't really care.
Speaker 3: But you know, true because I but I do want
Speaker 3: Star Wars to endure. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't want to see this be a thing where we
Speaker 3: see less of it moving forward.
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I'm rooting for it to be good
Speaker 2: and then I want more. Weirdly, though, I think Star
Speaker 2: Wars would benefit from seeing less of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it has in some ways. I
Speaker 3: guess the streaming has overpopulated a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: In the theaters, I mean, yeah, it's been a really
Speaker 3: long time, and I'm excited to go to a theater
Speaker 3: to watch Star Wars again.
Speaker 2: It's it's also very interesting, right, just from from like
Speaker 2: a merch point of view. I don't know if you've
Speaker 2: you've noticed this, but there's been a pronounced pause on
Speaker 2: anything Seql era related. Interesting.
Speaker 3: I haven't, but what do you mean, Like, like, if
Speaker 3: there's a Star Wars display somewhere, they are now focusing
Speaker 3: on other things. I'm seeing certainly more of a concentration
Speaker 3: of original trilogy. And I suspect part of that is
Speaker 3: because next year is the fiftieth anniversary, right A right
Speaker 3: really drilled down on that, and I'll be said, there
Speaker 3: has been this reclamation of the prequels, right, and so
Speaker 3: I'm starting to see a little bit of like, hey,
Speaker 3: what about the sequels.
Speaker 2: You know? And I'm like, man, you live long enough,
Speaker 2: everything repeats itself, right, because the sequel era began with
Speaker 2: trying to put as much distance between them and the
Speaker 2: prequels as possible, you know, and all of this stuff. Yeah, yes, yesterday,
Speaker 2: just last night at random, my daughter she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: put on the end of Revenge of the Syth. She
Speaker 2: just loves that final fight between Anakin and Obi Wan,
Speaker 2: and Revenge of the Sith is her favorite Star Wars.
Speaker 2: That's the first one she saw in the theater. And
Speaker 2: I was thinking about how well there's plenty of kids
Speaker 2: who the sequels is going to be their first Star
Speaker 2: Wars is and that's going to be their relationship. And
Speaker 2: so you know, all of this stuff eventually is it's
Speaker 2: all going to come out in the wash, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, everybody's going to have theirs. However, what
Speaker 2: I see a lot of right now is all these
Speaker 2: various factions tossing shit at each other. Right, so it's
Speaker 2: fun to just sit back and be like, let's wait
Speaker 2: for the dust to settle here. I'm not rooting for
Speaker 2: any of it to fail because no, like he was saying,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's Star Wars. I
Speaker 2: enjoy it. But but man, uh, I think Disney's paying
Speaker 2: the price right now for having just left that spigot
Speaker 2: on for so long with all those streaming shows which
Speaker 2: just diluted the brand, like like like you wouldn't believe.
Speaker 3: Well, and now that you know, with Kathleen Kennedy stepping
Speaker 3: down and Floony and you know, sort of taking over
Speaker 3: the creative reins, I'm wondering what their ten year plan is, right,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, this is interesting. We're basically getting
Speaker 3: a TV movie, you know, in theaters, but right, But
Speaker 3: I mean, do they have a new trilogy in mind?
Speaker 3: Do they have like some sort of big epic saga
Speaker 3: that they're cooking up, and where would that take place?
Speaker 2: Who would it involve?
Speaker 3: Do you just try to start something completely fresh because
Speaker 3: everything before theater wise has been you know, Skywalker adjacent, right,
Speaker 3: So do you try to like continue to have some
Speaker 3: sort of tether connected to that? Do you just do
Speaker 3: like the wasn't it Mangold was going to do some
Speaker 3: sort of like ancient Jedi story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a that's a that's a negatory
Speaker 2: on that one. That's not happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know, I mean it's I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like, I mean, all those stories could
Speaker 3: be amazing, but it doesn't guarantee that people are going
Speaker 3: to get lit up about it and show up.
Speaker 2: You know, like what do what do you want?
Speaker 3: It's like that the guy the test screening in the Simpsons,
Speaker 3: you know, when you showing the gene sketchy thing.
Speaker 2: What do you kids want? You don't even know? Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: me crying, don't yell at us? I think you know,
Speaker 2: you know, who needs to ride to the rescue right now?
Speaker 2: Obviously Ryan Johnson, right, that will go over like a
Speaker 2: lead balloon, right right, right is his trilogy, remember, which
Speaker 2: is like that, you know, one of many announced. That's
Speaker 2: the other thing Star Wars, Like, god damn, how many
Speaker 2: friggin things did they announce? Oh?
Speaker 3: I know, the Game of Thrones. Guys, dude, man Gold Johnson.
Speaker 2: It's like, why did they do that?
Speaker 3: Remember, there's going to be a Lando something with Donald
Speaker 3: Donald Glover, which apparently was written at some point, but
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: It became a joke, you know, but then it not
Speaker 2: that it couldn't be good. But again, like, what's the
Speaker 2: ten year plan?
Speaker 5: Is it?
Speaker 3: We're just going to do random stories that take place
Speaker 3: in the Star Wars universe that are not necessarily connected
Speaker 3: in different time periods, or do we try to focus
Speaker 3: on I mean, with Starfighter, I wonder if that with
Speaker 3: right now Gossling starring in it. I'm sure they weren't like, oh,
Speaker 3: we'll make one of these and see what happens. It's like, no, no,
Speaker 3: I got a plan with Ryan.
Speaker 2: Guy was about to say, I have a feeling that
Speaker 2: there are a lot of franchise hopes hanging around his shoulders, right,
Speaker 2: especially in the aftermath of Project Hill Mary doing what
Speaker 2: it did. Yeah, obviously that Ray movie, which I am,
Speaker 2: I am looking forward to. I hope it happens.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good idea. Yeah, Personally, I don't
Speaker 3: know when I think those characters Oh sorry, sorry, not good,
Speaker 3: No go ahead. I just think those characters got kind
Speaker 3: of underserved, and I think there's more you could do
Speaker 3: with those characters, and hopefully they can come up with
Speaker 3: something interesting and fresh and different.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, so a couple points right. Number one. The
Speaker 2: thing with Star Wars that's great is that even if
Speaker 2: the movie or the whatever it is that you've made
Speaker 2: is not great, you have the opportunity to tweak it later.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean tweak it like George Lucas tweaking
Speaker 2: with the Special Atistance. I mean you just do another
Speaker 2: story that adds context. Right, So the Clone Wars and
Speaker 2: bad Batch added greater context to you know, the prequels, right,
Speaker 2: the Mandalorian has set some things up that adds greater
Speaker 2: context to the sequels. You can do a new movie
Speaker 2: or series of movies with Ray and maybe the other
Speaker 2: characters that allow, you know, things that felt undercooked in
Speaker 2: those three movies to feel more resonant or revelatory later, right,
Speaker 2: So you always have that opportunity. That's the great thing
Speaker 2: about a tapestry, that's always unfolding. So I'm like take
Speaker 2: advantage of that. Now that being said, I think that
Speaker 2: both Marvel and Star Wars have been severely diluted because
Speaker 2: of just all these streaming shows, right. And my feeling is,
Speaker 2: if you're doing a streaming series, it has to be
Speaker 2: something distinct from what we expect out of a movie. Right.
Speaker 2: The whole selling point initially was, hey, you stream them,
Speaker 2: you turn on your Disney Plus, It's like you're getting
Speaker 2: something right out of the theater. Right. But that's bad actually, Right,
Speaker 2: So Marvel is not helped by the Falcon and the
Speaker 2: Winter Soldier streaming series, you get my point totally, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Marvel is helped by wonder Man. Wonder Man. I think
Speaker 2: the WandaVision show was a perfect is different something. And
Speaker 2: by the way, even WandaVision they kind of shit the
Speaker 2: bed at the very ending where it became just exploding,
Speaker 2: you know, throwing colored lights at each other. Right. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so like but WandaVision conceptually, yeah, that's not something you're
Speaker 2: gonna get in a movie. Right, Star Wars and or right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's something distinct and specific, and you would not do
Speaker 2: that as a movie. So my point is you have
Speaker 2: to serve different audiences. Yeah, that's the trick. And hope,
Speaker 2: hopefully these guys are figuring this out. I shud say,
Speaker 2: by the way, this Darth Maul series. Have you been
Speaker 2: watching this? No, My brother was just telling me about it.
Speaker 2: He started it. It is really good. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: he was saying. Yeah, you will like it. It's very
Speaker 2: very good. Okay, cool, Yeah, anyway, moving on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, actually real quick, just as long as we're
Speaker 3: talking about box office and that sort of thing and
Speaker 3: how things have changed.
Speaker 2: It's also way real quick as we're recording this, it's
Speaker 2: already a year ago that Thunderbolts was in theaters. And
Speaker 2: then wow, that is health right.
Speaker 3: In my mind the way that I think of that
Speaker 3: movie and remember it, it feels sort of like Black Widow,
Speaker 3: where it was like maybe something that dropped on Disney
Speaker 3: Plus or something that I watched and was pretty good,
Speaker 3: but like I've kind of forgotten it, like it's it's
Speaker 3: been lost to culture. You know, just kind of said anyway, sorry,
Speaker 3: go on, No, but I was just looking at box
Speaker 3: office as they tend to do on Sunday mornings, and
Speaker 3: then I was just noticing, I mean, so many things
Speaker 3: are doing really well this year. I mean, Devil War's
Speaker 3: Prada open to two hundred and thirty three million worldwide
Speaker 3: opening weekend.
Speaker 2: That's huge.
Speaker 3: Michael is almost at half a billion in its second week,
Speaker 3: Mario Galaxy is at eight hundred million worldwide, Project tail
Speaker 3: Mary six hundred thirty eight million worldwide. Even smaller movies
Speaker 3: like the Drama are at one hundred million worldwide. Like
Speaker 3: that's it feels like it's getting a little healthier. Box
Speaker 3: office is getting a little healthier out there than from
Speaker 3: you know what it was a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: That's good. I think this is all encouraging stuff. I agree.
Speaker 2: I think to some extent, nature is healing when it
Speaker 2: comes to people's relationship with theatrical I hope that continues. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's nice. I think if we're not relying solely on
Speaker 2: superheroes to save the day, that's that's all. That's all
Speaker 2: well and good totally.
Speaker 3: I mean I still enjoy though, and but I like
Speaker 3: seeing all of it succeed. I mean, these all these
Speaker 3: movies I listed are so different. Like I'm shocked that
Speaker 3: the drama is over one hundred million. I think that's
Speaker 3: amazing and really speaks to what a great story it is,
Speaker 3: and like a movie worth discussing.
Speaker 2: And then Project til Mary, which comes from a book.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not like based on some ip necessarily,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know the book, but like you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying, Like it's not based on some video
Speaker 3: game or whatever that everybody already knows.
Speaker 2: That's amazing, almost seven hundred million, and it's.
Speaker 3: Something like Devil Ward's proud Oft too, like a legacyquel
Speaker 3: opening up to two hundred and thirty three million. That's
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just find it all encouraging, and
Speaker 3: I like the variety of all of it.
Speaker 2: I agree. I'm with you. Yeah, but hey, speaking of
Speaker 2: the stuff that's in theaters right now and now, we're
Speaker 2: pleased to bring you our features and we are back.
Speaker 2: And you know who else is back? Brian? Who's that? Zechi?
Speaker 2: Why it's Miranda Priestley and Andy Sachs together again, together
Speaker 2: again after twenty long years, a desert without the Devil
Speaker 2: wears Prada. Wow, you put it that way. Twenty year
Speaker 2: nuts twenty years. That's nuts. That like to me, I
Speaker 2: think of like speaking of Star Wars, when you know
Speaker 2: when the re release of Star Wars for the special editions, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was twenty years, So that's that's how long you know. Wow, anyway,
Speaker 2: you saw this, you just got out of the theater.
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, through some editing magic. I saw this. I
Speaker 3: walked out about like thirty minutes ago.
Speaker 2: So well, I have not seen it. Ah, And so
Speaker 2: rather than attempt to bullshit my way through a review
Speaker 2: with you, I thought, you know, you should talk to
Speaker 2: my wife Amina, because she just saw it last night
Speaker 2: and she's a big fan of the first one. I
Speaker 2: thought you guys could have a good conversation. I'd love it.
Speaker 2: All right, here's Amna. Okay, I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Movie Film Podcast. You know, do you
Speaker 3: remember the last time you were on the podcast.
Speaker 4: It's been a while. We were talking about Superman.
Speaker 2: I think that's right.
Speaker 3: I think Zachie he needed to take a restroom break,
Speaker 3: but we were doing a commentary so we couldn't pause,
Speaker 3: and then he had you fill in.
Speaker 4: That was so funny.
Speaker 2: That was very funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, okay, you watched The Devil Wars Product two
Speaker 3: last night, I guess to begin, tell me about The
Speaker 3: Devil War's product one.
Speaker 2: So are you a fan of that movie? Have you
Speaker 2: been that?
Speaker 4: I was a fan. I'm a fan. I'm a big
Speaker 4: fan still actually, So when I heard that they were
Speaker 4: going to be bringing these characters back, I was really
Speaker 4: excited actually, but of course I was wondering, how are
Speaker 4: they going to pull that off? Like, how are they
Speaker 4: going to bring these people back? You know, because you
Speaker 4: know she left, she left and just walked away from
Speaker 4: that world. So so I was I was curious. I
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, let me see what they have, Let's
Speaker 4: see how they do this.
Speaker 2: So then, what did you think?
Speaker 4: I liked it? It worked for me. Actually, I was surprised.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, just seeing the back on screen,
Speaker 4: seeing those core characters again, Andy, Emily, Miranda. There are
Speaker 4: iconic characters. And Meryl Streep is just amazing. She steals
Speaker 4: every scene.
Speaker 2: She's just as witty and devastating as she ever was.
Speaker 4: She is. There's that tension, that tension is still there.
Speaker 4: It is scary. I'm like, I would never want to
Speaker 4: work for her ever, so oh she's still scary to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well so I guess, I mean, we can without
Speaker 3: getting into spoilers, we can talk about sort of how
Speaker 3: they bring.
Speaker 2: Everybody back together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which, like you were saying, I mean Andy and
Speaker 3: Hathaway's character, like you said, she kind of walks away
Speaker 3: from that Runway Magazine world to the first movie, and
Speaker 3: now she is a journalist, yeah right, and she works
Speaker 3: at some publication I don't remember what it was, but
Speaker 3: basically her and her the other journalists are fired immediately
Speaker 3: right at the beginning, and she's without work and she needs,
Speaker 3: you know, to find.
Speaker 4: Something the money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and she wants.
Speaker 3: To write things that have like integrity, right, Like she's
Speaker 3: really about like journalism going on at the same time, Basically,
Speaker 3: Miranda Priestley is going through a scandal right.
Speaker 4: Right right where they're bringing in like relevant topics. They're
Speaker 4: bringing in like fast fashion, they're bringing in how print
Speaker 4: is declining, you know, how journalism is kind of evolving,
Speaker 4: how fashion is evolving, and you know how these changes
Speaker 4: are kind of affecting these people.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And if I remember this correctly, because I just watched
Speaker 3: this like like two hours ago, but the company that
Speaker 3: owns Runway Magazine basically was doing some nefarious stuff, right,
Speaker 3: and that was like trickling down and Priestley and her
Speaker 3: magazine were sort of getting sucked into that controversy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're trying to taper that down, and so say
Speaker 4: they need like a journalist to come in and kind
Speaker 4: of have a different angle and kind of talk about
Speaker 4: something else kind of and take away from their involvement
Speaker 4: with fast fashion.
Speaker 3: Right, do in sort of like a like a clever
Speaker 3: mea culpa right where it's like, we acknowledge this, but
Speaker 3: you know, also sort of re reframed themselves and.
Speaker 4: Separate themselves telling their side of the story, I guess.
Speaker 3: And so that led to what I thought was one
Speaker 3: of the most clever parts of this was, you know,
Speaker 3: they Miranda and Andy have their complicated relationship in the
Speaker 3: first movie, but they also have a little bit of a.
Speaker 2: You know, they bond in their own unique sort of way.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think she sees herself in her a little
Speaker 4: bit like that rebellious or like, you know, the success,
Speaker 4: she sees it in her totally.
Speaker 3: So, and what I thought was clever was it the
Speaker 3: beginning of this one. How do you bring them back
Speaker 3: together and still make it fun and fresh and let
Speaker 3: Miranda sort of cut her down in like the you know,
Speaker 3: the witty and fun way that we enjoy, and it's
Speaker 3: basically she doesn't remember her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought that was a great way. She comes in.
Speaker 4: I think Handy comes in thinking that she's been hired
Speaker 4: by Miranda, like personal invite back to the company. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and she walks in all excited, like giddy, you know,
Speaker 4: with excitement, and she's like, who are you? Like, do
Speaker 4: I know you? Like, what does she not remember? They
Speaker 4: spend all this time? But if you think about it,
Speaker 4: like from Miranda, it's just maybe one year or summer
Speaker 4: that she spent with this girl.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 4: And but for Andy, it was like her whole life
Speaker 4: revolved around this time working for this company that shaped
Speaker 4: her future. But you know, you're wondering also, is like
Speaker 4: is she joking and she is just real that she
Speaker 4: not really remember her?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, if it was something she was keeping, yeah yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's like that feeling like is she is she friendly
Speaker 4: with her? Or she really you know, are they are
Speaker 4: they on the same page? Are they are they really
Speaker 4: friendly or not? Or is she joking?
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: So that was funny. Is that power dynamic kind of like,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't really need you, but you're here
Speaker 4: final work with you.
Speaker 2: M deep down maybe she remembers.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think deep down she did. She was
Speaker 4: just probably playing with her Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: But so then, yeah, what did you think of the story?
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of times with sequels, especially these
Speaker 3: legas sequels, I mean I think of something like The
Speaker 3: Force Awakens, Yeah, where they one of the criticisms is
Speaker 3: trying to give people what they want. They basically change
Speaker 3: things enough, but tell the same story again because they
Speaker 3: know it works. Like do you feel like this was
Speaker 3: a different enough story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So they played into the nostalgia definitely, the giving
Speaker 4: the fans what they want, but it is tricky having
Speaker 4: something new. Also, they found a good balance between the two,
Speaker 4: bringing in different ideas, different people come in. They had
Speaker 4: the same characters but also new characters, which was nice
Speaker 4: to see. So definitely, I think they balanced it pretty well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was surprised to see bj Novak from the
Speaker 2: opposite of this.
Speaker 3: I like him, but he has an interesting character and
Speaker 3: something that feels very of this moment exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, Yeah, and we see that a lot with companies, right,
Speaker 4: with new people comeing in and they just want to
Speaker 4: revamp it alls a little way downsize, keep it, you know,
Speaker 4: cash coming in without spending that kind of thing. So
Speaker 4: it is something they tried to update it to the
Speaker 4: world we're in now, and I think they did a
Speaker 4: pretty good job reflecting those changes.
Speaker 3: I thought so too, because I sometimes when I watch
Speaker 3: movies and people are dealing with these sort of champagne problems,
Speaker 3: it's hard to relate or even care because you're like,
Speaker 3: I would love to have your problem, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You know, like, because Miranda is like her magazine they
Speaker 3: fall apart, but she's like mourning this in this gorgeous
Speaker 3: hotel room in like Milan, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh no, But what I think the movie
Speaker 3: does a good job of is for her, it wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily about money. It was about the death of the
Speaker 3: appreciation of art, right like in her speech when she's saying,
Speaker 3: like if this, you know, if someone else comes in
Speaker 3: and turns this magazine into something else like it will
Speaker 3: it would be sad to her that there would be
Speaker 3: it would no longer be a celebration of beauty and artistry,
Speaker 3: you know, and things that are special and hard work
Speaker 3: and all that sort of thing. And I thought that
Speaker 3: was a really brilliant way to make you care about
Speaker 3: this magazine that could otherwise maybe feel a little frivolous, right.
Speaker 4: Right, Why do I care about these people who have everything?
Speaker 4: You know? But yeah, there is that compassion that you
Speaker 4: feel for She's human, you know, in the end, and
Speaker 4: you feel for her because she could lose everything and
Speaker 4: those relationships at what cost. Right, She's lost you know her.
Speaker 4: I think her first husband's a different husband this time. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and her kids have grown up kind of not knowing her.
Speaker 4: So you know, success comes at a price. She paid
Speaker 4: the price, you know, to get where she is and
Speaker 4: to lose it all at that point it is devastating.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I sorry, this is getting a little into spoilery stuff
Speaker 3: for people who are listening, but if they want to
Speaker 3: skip ahead just a little bit, they can't. But I
Speaker 3: did like that she got into that, you know, where
Speaker 3: she Those are like the best moments in both movies,
Speaker 3: I think is when Miranda gets vulnerable.
Speaker 2: M h you know, like when you.
Speaker 3: See her with her makeup off, Yeah, you know, learning
Speaker 3: she's going to get a divorce in the first movie,
Speaker 3: and then in this one, I really liked that moment
Speaker 3: with her in the Hamptons and she's giddy and you've
Speaker 3: never seen that side of her.
Speaker 4: Yeah. It's funny because in the in the last movie,
Speaker 4: you know, Andy has to know all the background for
Speaker 4: all the people, and she's introducing, you know, Miranda to
Speaker 4: all these Oh, and it's the opposite this time. This
Speaker 4: time Miranda is like, handy, look who this is? This
Speaker 4: is this person? This is that person? How Andy meet
Speaker 4: this person? And it's the roles have kind of switched
Speaker 4: in a sense, like you feel the shift a little bit. Again,
Speaker 4: they're still not equals. They're not equals yet, right, but
Speaker 4: but yeah, she's doing the introductions and she's saying, Hey,
Speaker 4: these are my friends. I want you to meet them
Speaker 4: in her inner circle of you know, family and friends, right.
Speaker 3: Which feels like an enormous deal for this person whos
Speaker 3: a huge and.
Speaker 4: Remember you right, Yeah, I thought you didn't know who
Speaker 4: I was. Why am I invited you to your Hampton house?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And again this is a little spoilery, so people
Speaker 3: want to click ahead just a little bit. But I
Speaker 3: also loved that moment when they were sharing the car
Speaker 3: and she learns about the book that's going to be written, right, and.
Speaker 4: She's like, feel about it.
Speaker 2: She knew about it, a she knew about it.
Speaker 3: And also she's like do it, yeah, like you should
Speaker 3: do it, and frankly like people should know that all
Speaker 3: of these things that I work hard for do come
Speaker 3: at a cost.
Speaker 2: You know what you say.
Speaker 3: You reminded me of it when you were talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, her relationship with her children suffered for all
Speaker 3: the things that she did, and I just, yeah, the
Speaker 3: vulnerability whenever she gets has these little brief moments of
Speaker 3: vulnerability with Andy especially, it's always kind of nice. And
Speaker 3: she has a nice moment with Nigel also.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 4: She didn't know all this time how much Nigel wanted
Speaker 4: that position or that part of the job. And she's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I didn't know. He never told me, you know, And
Speaker 4: so that was interesting too, like she just sometimes you're oblivious,
Speaker 4: like you just take people for granted because they're there
Speaker 4: and they do the job. They don't complain, and so
Speaker 4: that was nice moment where she's like, wait a second,
Speaker 4: I think he really wants this, and she lets him
Speaker 4: speak at the end because now he owns it. Kind
Speaker 4: of that part m hm.
Speaker 3: So yeah, how great is Stanley Tucci. He's great, right,
Speaker 3: He's just like I like, I want him to be
Speaker 3: my friend. I know, you know, you know, he's like
Speaker 3: a little sassy. He'll cut you down, but.
Speaker 2: Like you know, he takes care of you.
Speaker 4: He's like, I'm wear of this, I got you, you know,
Speaker 4: just take care of it and bring it back. But yeah,
Speaker 4: he's looking out for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he doesn't ask.
Speaker 4: He doesn't ask. That's the thing. That's why I think
Speaker 4: she didn't know mm hm, because he never complained about it.
Speaker 3: By the way, you brought up Miranda's new husband or boyfriends,
Speaker 3: and it's Kenneth Branaf.
Speaker 4: I know he's an icon himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, and it's not a very big role.
Speaker 3: But what made me laugh was he had the beard
Speaker 3: and everything, and it reminded me of exactly how he
Speaker 3: looked when he was that villain in the movie Tenant.
Speaker 4: See I haven't seen Tenant. It's like he's been telling
Speaker 4: me to see it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: I was like, I'd love to think because we're not
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of screen time with him. When Miranda's
Speaker 3: off doing her things, he's off on the boat fighting
Speaker 3: some sort of time war.
Speaker 2: In reverse having the.
Speaker 4: Tendancy multiverse ordering a multiverse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically time folding in on itself. Kind of war
Speaker 3: nice anyway, that made me laugh.
Speaker 4: He was great in it though. I'm like, he's a
Speaker 4: nice little like big name, but not a big character really.
Speaker 4: But he was nice to her and he appreciated her,
Speaker 4: I think, which was nice.
Speaker 2: That was nice to seem. Yeah. Yeah. Also, well, speaking
Speaker 2: of what did you think of Andy's love interest?
Speaker 4: I liked him. I mean he was he was nice.
Speaker 4: We're like, okay, I didn't want it to be the
Speaker 4: same exact story that was last time, where she's ignoring
Speaker 4: him and he's like, you don't give me enough time.
Speaker 4: He's like, okay, you do your thing when you're ready.
Speaker 4: You know. That was kind of sweet. It's like they
Speaker 4: didn't have the perfect start. I like to show what
Speaker 4: she said, she like, wedt have the perfect start or
Speaker 4: the perfect ending, but we can kind of be imperfect together. Jet.
Speaker 4: That was kind of sweet.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I had seen some people like online and then when
Speaker 3: my friends and I walked out, my friends were saying
Speaker 3: that he felt a little pointless.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I could see that. I could see that. But
Speaker 4: she needed something because like again, we're talking twenty years later,
Speaker 4: where you kind of expect the character to kind of
Speaker 4: be a little bit you know, settled or maybe have
Speaker 4: a relationship with somebody. So she didn't really have that
Speaker 4: all these years, or they didn't really talk about it,
Speaker 4: you know. With Emily's character, she has kids, she's divorced,
Speaker 4: she's kind of moved on, but we didn't really see
Speaker 4: that with Andy's characters. So I think they were trying
Speaker 4: to show like, hey, you know, she's still, you know,
Speaker 4: out there trying to find the right person. But he
Speaker 4: didn't have a huge he didn't have a huge role,
Speaker 4: but I think he was kind of needed just for
Speaker 4: some kind of like stability, for her.
Speaker 3: Stability, and he almost works as a barometer also for
Speaker 3: like where she is, you know, when she's kind of
Speaker 3: at her best, and where she's when she's at her worst.
Speaker 3: So I yeah, I can understand that feeling. But he
Speaker 3: kind of worked for me. He was interesting too because
Speaker 3: he wasn't super dynamic.
Speaker 4: I wasn't sure who the actor was. Actually, I'm like,
Speaker 4: am I supposed to know who he is?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: Because with Kenneth Branag, like we knew, like he's this
Speaker 4: big actor, but with her love interest. It wasn't I
Speaker 4: don't feel like he was a huge actor. Maybe that
Speaker 4: wasn't the point, but yeah, it could have been maybe
Speaker 4: another actor. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I I actually kind of liked the guy,
Speaker 3: and for that reason, I liked that he wasn't unlike
Speaker 3: was it Simon Baker in the first movie?
Speaker 2: You know, he's like a bit of a lot.
Speaker 4: He was a bigger yeah, kind of a bigger name.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But also that character is a little more larger than life,
Speaker 3: you know, And I liked that this guy felt, I
Speaker 3: don't know, just more like a real person. So it
Speaker 3: was kind of interesting seeing Andy, you know, one foot
Speaker 3: in that glamorous world and then one foot with this
Speaker 3: nice guy you know, who's yeah, it looks like he's
Speaker 3: composed and got it together, but he's also very much
Speaker 3: not a part of that world. And so it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's a little rote and maybe you know, a small
Speaker 3: part of the movie. But I didn't dislike it as
Speaker 3: much as I've heard.
Speaker 4: Other people's yeah yeah, it worked for me, it was okay,
Speaker 4: Like I think it was all right. He think she
Speaker 4: needed some kind of relationship with someone to just to
Speaker 4: ground her I think a little bit.
Speaker 2: Totally totally.
Speaker 3: Were there any other things that sort of stood out
Speaker 3: to you or moments he liked or Oh I.
Speaker 4: Love Emily Blunt. I do love her, and I love
Speaker 4: the riff between the two of them. They still have
Speaker 4: that like banter, which is really funny. You know, she
Speaker 4: still kind of puts her down like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: your eyebrows putting down although she is dressed, just like
Speaker 4: what what is wrong with this? You know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: And it's just funny seeing that relationship too, but very
Speaker 4: sweet where they are in the end. They're like kind
Speaker 4: of having you know, lunch together and they're friendly, but
Speaker 4: she's still not like calling her a friend, so it's
Speaker 4: going to continue. I think that's just how she is,
Speaker 4: you know, So it's just funny. I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: That's like a perfect example also where I feel like
Speaker 3: I really like this way.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I said it outright, but I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a perfect sequel because you don't
Speaker 3: want to do all the same beats again. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: want to revisit these characters, but you want to see
Speaker 3: them doing something different but still acting like themselves. And
Speaker 3: I think she's the perfect example where she's doing a
Speaker 3: very different thing in this movie, but she's still very
Speaker 3: much felt like herself. Yeah, and so it was fun
Speaker 3: to revisit.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I felt the same way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I have to say, if you love the first one,
Speaker 4: you're gonna definitely love this one. I think this is
Speaker 4: definitely the same bea same, same type of feelings that
Speaker 4: feel good. Some some parts are a little sad, You're like,
Speaker 4: and then you go through it, you work with it,
Speaker 4: and then you feel good in the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, thank you for talking about this with me.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. This was fun for me. I
Speaker 4: know Zackie gets to do this all the time, but
Speaker 4: this is like a new adventure for me. I love
Speaker 4: love talking about things that I enjoy too, so this
Speaker 4: has been fun for me.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is perfect.
Speaker 3: I was really excited to talk about it as soon
Speaker 3: as I got out of it, and I was excited
Speaker 3: I was gonna get to talk about it with you.
Speaker 4: Ah, thanks, Bryan. I hope we get to talk again.
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. Okay, Well I'm back. I hope that went well.
Speaker 3: Yes, we had a lovely conversation. Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 3: for rejoining.
Speaker 2: Well, now the situation is reversed because she has not
Speaker 2: seen Michael. Uh huh. I, on the other hand, have yes,
Speaker 2: as have you. I have. So, you know, here's a
Speaker 2: movie that's burning up the box office, doing pretty well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, it's making a Hunger Games money for lions Gate. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: which they're happy about it. I mean, this movie is
Speaker 2: looking to end up as like, definitely the biggest music
Speaker 2: bio pick of all time. But I think it's gonna
Speaker 2: end up, you know, checking off a lot of other
Speaker 2: boxes too before all astenden.
Speaker 3: Then, yes, I was just about to say, that's unsurprising
Speaker 3: thinking about Michael Jackson and his worldwide you know, stardom
Speaker 3: and how hubble loved he's been and stuff. But it
Speaker 3: really isn't a guaranteed thing necessarily. I mean, his who
Speaker 3: he was in the eighties and nineties is obviously very
Speaker 3: different now in the twenty twenties. For starters, he's people
Speaker 3: have a lot of different opinions about him. But also
Speaker 3: this movie went through a lot of turmoil, right. They
Speaker 3: probably thought they had like something in the bag at
Speaker 3: one point, but when they had this movie all shot
Speaker 3: and we're editing, they realized that they suddenly were gonna
Speaker 3: have to get rid of the third act of this movie,
Speaker 3: and like, what the heck do we do now that
Speaker 3: a third of our movie is gone? So, I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm sure they had a lot of you know, panic
Speaker 3: attacks over there, and for this to come out as
Speaker 3: successful as it has must they must just be like
Speaker 3: sitting back in their chairs, exhaling, wiping the sweat from
Speaker 3: their brows.
Speaker 2: Dodged a bullet. Yeah yeah. So just just looking at
Speaker 2: the box office of this overall. So this this is
Speaker 2: via Scott Mendelssohn and his box office analysis. He says,
Speaker 2: Michael continues to glide to Gloria, earning another fifty four
Speaker 2: million over the weekend for a one hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: four million ten day total. In terms of second weekend holds,
Speaker 2: that's just a shade worse quote unquote than Elvis and
Speaker 2: Bohemian Rhapsody. But it opened bigger, so I'd end up
Speaker 2: doing a lot more. Uh, And presumably there's going to
Speaker 2: be a sequel that I guess we can have that conversation.
Speaker 2: So I I just saw this movie yesterday. I spent
Speaker 2: a week trying to watch it, and then I have
Speaker 2: not seen the drama yet, but I went endured my
Speaker 2: own drama just trying to get to the theater to
Speaker 2: watch Michael. So I'm glad finally we were able to
Speaker 2: make it work. And obviously the most important question when
Speaker 2: we watch music bio pic is does it does it
Speaker 2: pass the dewey Cox test right? And by that we
Speaker 2: mean does it stick to those beats that are the
Speaker 2: tropes that that walk hard the dewey Cox story established,
Speaker 2: or does it does it break away and do its
Speaker 2: own thing? And it does not break away and do it. No,
Speaker 2: it's very much, very very strenuously to the dewey Cox
Speaker 2: template up to it, including dewey Cox says to remember
Speaker 2: his whole life. Yes, forums yep. I was like, really
Speaker 2: we doing this? Yep? Now, I said, either in our
Speaker 2: Dude Cox commentary or at some other point, I was like,
Speaker 2: I know is going to be a toe tapper of
Speaker 2: a movie. And like I was sitting there watching this thing,
Speaker 2: and I had my feet up on the you know
Speaker 2: how you recline, and unconsciously I glanced down at my
Speaker 2: feet and they're like tapping against each other.
Speaker 3: Zachie, I'll bring it up now because you did. But
Speaker 3: there was a moment where I was literally shimming in
Speaker 3: my seat and I got self conscious and I looked
Speaker 3: over and the guy next to me was doing the
Speaker 3: same thing. And then I looked down the aisle because
Speaker 3: everyone had their recliner seats up. Every foot was moving,
Speaker 3: every foot, and I actually wanted to take a video
Speaker 3: because it was so funny. But yeah, like, did they
Speaker 3: succeed in, you know, making everybody enjoy like Michael Jackson's
Speaker 3: music again and feel it all over again.
Speaker 2: Absolute Now insofar as did they make a v yes
Speaker 2: that is compelling, Yes, in my opinion, they did not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it. It's so it's so tropy. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it's so like hopscotches over these chunks of time that
Speaker 2: it I couldn't I couldn't find my way into any
Speaker 2: of the emotional moments. And there's a couple of reasons. Actually,
Speaker 2: Partly I think that obviously the whole legal business about
Speaker 2: like there there's okay, so step backward. I happened to
Speaker 2: glance at the Rot Tomatoes number and I saw that
Speaker 2: the critic you know, appraisal is not great. And you know,
Speaker 2: there are there are Michael Jackson fans on the internet
Speaker 2: who I would say are a little aggressive, you know,
Speaker 2: And and their whole contention is that you know that
Speaker 2: he's just a sanctified person, right, And I'm like, well, nobody,
Speaker 2: nobody is that. And I'm not even saying that. I'm
Speaker 2: not coming at it from the perspective of the things
Speaker 2: he was accused of, right, you know, because obviously there's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: there's there's enough of a shadow of a doubt over
Speaker 2: that we say, okay, let's just put that to one side, right,
Speaker 2: But I am saying like he was a human being,
Speaker 2: and and I think that there was an opportunity to
Speaker 2: delve into his inner life far more than this movie does.
Speaker 2: It feels he feels very reactive, and he feels very
Speaker 2: he feels like like I just want to bring light
Speaker 2: to the world and all this, right, and and so
Speaker 2: there there there was something frustratingly arms length that made
Speaker 2: it feel like an exercise in brand management. Right. And
Speaker 2: it's funny because there's one thing we'll talk more about
Speaker 2: various other things, but there's one scene where it's it's
Speaker 2: where Michael's meeting with his attorneys and they got all
Speaker 2: these guys. They're all sitting at the long table like well,
Speaker 2: mister Jackson, we think we should do this, Well, maybe
Speaker 2: you can do this, you know, all these and then
Speaker 2: and then one guy, here's what I think you should do.
Speaker 2: Nobody kind of glances over, and there's Miles Teller. You know,
Speaker 2: you're you're gonna be the greatest or whatever he says.
Speaker 2: You know, he's he's Tony Danza. Yeah yeah. And then
Speaker 2: and then he's the guy who you know, he he
Speaker 2: he separates Michael from from his father, which, holy shit,
Speaker 2: we need to talk about Coleman Domingo's performance in a second.
Speaker 2: There's so much to talk about. But I was like,
Speaker 2: what a weirdly prominent role to give this random guy.
Speaker 2: And it turns out he's a producer on the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, made himself one of the like foremost important people
Speaker 3: in this decade spanning story.
Speaker 2: I know. So now that's it. I want to say
Speaker 2: Jaffar Jackson, who plays Michael, there are times, and I
Speaker 2: don't mean this as an insult, there are times he
Speaker 2: looks like a deep fake of Michael Jackson. Yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting when he first shows up and
Speaker 3: he does the voice, you know, the.
Speaker 2: You know, I just want to make you know, good music,
Speaker 2: like we our entire lives.
Speaker 3: Michael Jackson has been parodied, Yeah, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: like the Tonight Show, the Las Vegas whatever, you know,
Speaker 3: Saturday Night Live. We've seen his look parodied and his
Speaker 3: voice certainly parodied. So like, this guy has a lot
Speaker 3: working against him trying to come up with a take
Speaker 3: on Michael Jackson and now having us instinctively snicker that's right, right,
Speaker 3: And so it did. There was a moment when he
Speaker 3: kind of did the voice. I was like, Oh, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know. I don't know if I
Speaker 3: can like get lose myself to that. But to his credit,
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: I agree, Yeah, I agree. I think he's good. However,
Speaker 2: I have seen people say this is a star making
Speaker 2: turn from Jafar Jackson, and to that, I say, well
Speaker 2: is it? Though? He is an excellent Michael Jackson impersonator.
Speaker 2: That's my point, right, I'm like, what other roles like
Speaker 2: he could go on tour playing Michael Jackson. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: by the.
Speaker 3: Way I feel immediately I want to say that I
Speaker 3: don't know because I don't feel like I've seen him
Speaker 3: do anything else. Like not a lot of people could
Speaker 3: do what he did in this movie. He does it right,
Speaker 3: really really means he's.
Speaker 2: Star making I don't know, because I mean he could
Speaker 2: play a lot of other people, know, right, So so
Speaker 2: you know, the hyperbole gets a little much.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, but that's like, well, going to what you
Speaker 3: were saying, I mean, yeah, the.
Speaker 2: The fandom online has been pretty intense with this movie.
Speaker 2: It's it's a lot. It's a lot, you know. And
Speaker 2: this is not something I've engaged with directly. This is
Speaker 2: just purely observational from you know, our friend Paul Shiy
Speaker 2: wrote a review which I read as mostly mixed. I
Speaker 2: didn't even read the review. I read his review after
Speaker 2: I watched the movie, but I saw Edie had posted
Speaker 2: his review on social media, and then just you know,
Speaker 2: I saw like just a shit ton of comments under
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, let's see this, and it's just man,
Speaker 2: people coming out of the woodworks, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, like we talked about in our bonus episode over
Speaker 3: at Patreon, I started watching The Pit and I was
Speaker 3: shocked to find that The Pit has this crazy intense
Speaker 3: online fandom. So, I mean, it's just it's just in
Speaker 3: the air these.
Speaker 2: Days, there's something something broken Yeah. Anyway, Now, now I
Speaker 2: think by virtue of having to sanctify Michael to what
Speaker 2: I would say is, I don't know about realistic or
Speaker 2: unrealistic in terms of what actually happened, but I think
Speaker 2: in terms of drama, it's a drama killer because he's
Speaker 2: so good instead of being complicated. Does that make sense?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: As a perfect moment that like sums that up for
Speaker 3: me is when he gets Bubbles the chimp.
Speaker 2: I was about to bring this up.
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, Well, so he's basically you know, he
Speaker 3: this rescues the Bubbles and he's brought to his mansion
Speaker 3: where the whole family lives. And now, after watching the movie, Nope,
Speaker 3: I think we've all learned that maybe it's not a
Speaker 3: good idea to use real animals in movies, just.
Speaker 2: Having lived on this earth and knowing what tends to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're wild animals.
Speaker 3: Maybe now that we have the technology, we should use
Speaker 3: you know, CGI to recreate animals.
Speaker 2: It's safer, it's it's better.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look always that great, but it is what
Speaker 3: it is, right, So I wasn't surprised that Bubbles was.
Speaker 2: A CGI creation. Yeah, However, when.
Speaker 5: The Bubbles meets Michael, he basically looks into Michael's eyes
Speaker 5: and smiles as if he's some sort of like Disney
Speaker 5: like snow White, you know, animal.
Speaker 2: I expected Andy Serkus's voice to come out and say,
Speaker 2: Bubbles is home.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, well, I mean it's like he almost looks
Speaker 3: at him like he's like Jesus or something like in
Speaker 3: a movie where you'd see someone like like an animal
Speaker 3: looking at Jesus and then they smile because they know
Speaker 3: that's their creator, you.
Speaker 2: Know, or something like. It's like this weird.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's odd, Like they're really trying to
Speaker 3: like deify.
Speaker 2: Well, and so let me let me add to that.
Speaker 2: See this this gets to something, right, Like, let's put
Speaker 2: all of the accusations to one side. Yeah, yeah, what
Speaker 2: we can say is that Michael was, and not necessarily
Speaker 2: through any fault of his own, he was kind of
Speaker 2: an odd guy, right, and and things like I want
Speaker 2: a lama, I want a chimpanzee. I'm sorry, but that's
Speaker 2: a little odd, right yeah yeah yeah yeah. And and
Speaker 2: so to me, fundamentally, there's here like the movie sort
Speaker 2: of broadly acknowledged this idea that he didn't feel like
Speaker 2: he had a childhood, right, But I'm like, well, what
Speaker 2: does like look at how that manifests Like that's interesting
Speaker 2: to me and I want more of that. He's the
Speaker 2: biggest star in the world. He can have whatever he wants.
Speaker 2: And what does he do? He goes to a toy store, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying we we be like, look at
Speaker 2: this weirdo. No, that's let's get into that. Yes, let's
Speaker 2: get into that, right, And instead it's kind of we
Speaker 2: got Coleman Domingo just hamming it up as just the
Speaker 2: worst piece of shit father on Earth. I haven't had
Speaker 2: thought he is too. Actually, he's very watchable. I will
Speaker 2: say that for sure. I mean, but I just have
Speaker 2: so much I want to say, but yeah, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 2: Coleman Domingo is one step away from no wire hangers.
Speaker 2: You know he's doing he's doing that. You know what's interesting?
Speaker 2: I actually.
Speaker 3: Just look, I mean I only know things I've read
Speaker 3: and past things I've watched, like The Jackson five, the
Speaker 3: American Dream.
Speaker 2: I think it was the Jackson. Yeah, that's I've learned.
Speaker 3: You know, what a monster Joe Jackson was, right, And
Speaker 3: so in this movie there's a scene where he uses
Speaker 3: his belt on Young Michael, and I almost started crying.
Speaker 3: It was so upsetting, like that that little actor playing
Speaker 3: young Michael, this is incredible. And but that's kind of
Speaker 3: as far as it goes with him. And you know,
Speaker 3: he says things about Michael's nose, which we know happened,
Speaker 3: but other than that, he comes across mostly as like
Speaker 3: stern And I was like, that's interesting because this is
Speaker 3: being produced by the family and it almost feels like
Speaker 3: they're like pushing him up a little bit too, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: he did some things that we don't agree with, but
Speaker 3: like he kept it all together, you know, like he
Speaker 3: made it happen like that. That was how I took
Speaker 3: it because well, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm
Speaker 3: not saying what I didn't see was disturbing, but like
Speaker 3: we know that he relentlessly bullied Michael and made fun
Speaker 3: of his acne. He made fun of his nose to
Speaker 3: the point that when Michael Jackson died and was on
Speaker 3: like a slab in a corner's office, he had a
Speaker 3: hole in his face, no nose because of that friggin
Speaker 3: monster of a father, right, And I thought, if you
Speaker 3: really did a movie that like got into it, I
Speaker 3: think he would have been even worse.
Speaker 2: I think it gets to like, what's the threshold for
Speaker 2: how much of this do people want to you know what?
Speaker 3: And I agree with that. I agree with that because
Speaker 3: I don't think people want to see that. They want
Speaker 3: to bop when they start playing thrill.
Speaker 2: That's the problem, right, Yeah, And so so there is
Speaker 2: some there is that complexity of Joe Jackson's piece of shit.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. We don't get Michael Jackson without Joe Jackson, yes,
Speaker 2: and that's an uncomfortable truth, yeah, yeah, And obviously the
Speaker 2: movie is not gonna want to do with that. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But but again it's like there there is a legitimate
Speaker 2: horror movie jump scare scene, yes, where Michael is at
Speaker 2: the fridge. He opens the fridge door and then he
Speaker 2: closes it and there's Joe Jackson standing there. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 2: so he's like he's like the ghostface of this movie.
Speaker 2: You know, it's right right. There is a scene by
Speaker 2: the way where it's it's Joe Jackson played by Coleman
Speaker 2: Domingo and and he's sitting with Don King who plays
Speaker 2: him who plays him, I don't know, but he's very good.
Speaker 2: Uh that It felt like a like a key and
Speaker 2: peel sketch. That was sure. Yeah, I mean, well, Don
Speaker 2: King feels like a cartoon character. It was Dion Cole.
Speaker 2: I knew he looked familiar. It was the uncle. Oh wow,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I knew he looked familiar. That's funny, right,
Speaker 2: But it's literally like they're like lighting their cigars like
Speaker 2: we're you know, I mean, it's so like comically, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's so broad. Oh, absolutely, yeah. You know we're
Speaker 2: gonna go on this tour and make sure Michael's gonna
Speaker 2: be there to puff puff you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you guarantee it, Joe, because if you don't,
Speaker 3: you know, there'll be a price to pay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, it's funny.
Speaker 3: I was telling people, I feel like this movie is
Speaker 3: less deep than a Wikipedia article, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like usually that's the thing where you're like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: like they filmed a Wikipedia article. This has less like
Speaker 3: insight than Wikipedia articles, and like one of my favorite
Speaker 3: I maybe this is a spoiler.
Speaker 2: I'll say this.
Speaker 3: The scenes aren't very long, and they're not very deep.
Speaker 3: They're just connective tissue to the next musical.
Speaker 2: Number, and those are all fricking great.
Speaker 3: And they're great and their full length, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. And I've been telling people like, if I
Speaker 3: have a review for this movie, it would have to
Speaker 3: have a title called a Tale of two Brian's because
Speaker 3: is this a good biography of an incredibly complex superstar,
Speaker 3: like a once in a century superstar, and like a
Speaker 3: little bit of digging into who he was and why
Speaker 3: not even remotely?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Did I enjoy every performance and find myself moving in
Speaker 3: my chair? And if someone asked me, do you want
Speaker 3: to see it again? I'd say yes, like because I
Speaker 3: enjoyed myself. So it's a it's it's such a strange
Speaker 3: movie in a way.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, so here here's where I'm at, right, because
Speaker 2: because I think the most apt comp is Bohemian Rhapsody
Speaker 2: for Me, Yeah, which and apparently one of the same producers, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And Mike Myers is in both. Mike Myers is in
Speaker 2: both OLDO remember, well, I know he's in boheman, who
Speaker 2: is he in this? Oh?
Speaker 3: He's the guy who Uh Miles Teller is like you
Speaker 3: got to get Michael on MTV or we walk or no,
Speaker 3: He's like, are we pull all the CBS catalog?
Speaker 2: Okay? So that's actually pretty brilliant because I was like,
Speaker 2: I know this is a guy. I should know who
Speaker 2: it is. Oh funny, yeah yeah, you did not recognize
Speaker 2: that it was Mike Myer. Mike Myers, So is this
Speaker 2: just Mike Myers? Like career third act? He just plays
Speaker 2: music executives.
Speaker 3: He's just going to be in that great what's his name,
Speaker 3: Graham the producer? I don't know, but U in his
Speaker 3: cinematic universe of musicians, he's always going to play some
Speaker 3: music producer.
Speaker 2: Now, that was a true thing that happened, which I
Speaker 2: thought was pretty cool about MTV being like, oh, we
Speaker 2: don't play black artists, which is so aft up. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah. So that being said, so Bohemian Rhapsody, I
Speaker 2: had very much the same response where my toes were tapping.
Speaker 2: I thought it was historical nonsense. It felt like brand management.
Speaker 2: Even when I was watching it and as I was
Speaker 2: walking out of the theater, I downloaded the soundtrack to
Speaker 2: my phone. Yeah, absolutely right, So same sequence in this.
Speaker 2: I had the exact same responses tapping my toes, being like,
Speaker 2: this is pretty clearly brand management, up to and including
Speaker 2: all the family members being producers except Janet, who Janet
Speaker 2: Jackson doesn't exist in this dojo.
Speaker 3: Yes, I know, which I thought would have been funny
Speaker 3: if they had like sort of kept her. But she
Speaker 3: was always in shadow or something. You'd never see her.
Speaker 2: She's like Wilson and Home improvis.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly, or it's like always her shoulder or something.
Speaker 2: But like and then guess what I get in my
Speaker 2: car and I put on Michael Jackson, right, Yeah, So
Speaker 2: that's my point. I think it goes through the paces
Speaker 2: of these music biopics. And by the way, this is
Speaker 2: something we talked about when we were watching Dewey Cox.
Speaker 2: It's like, why do this template because guess what, it works,
Speaker 2: because that's what audiences want. And when you when you
Speaker 2: when you go off roading, people don't show up, Like
Speaker 2: like the Springsteen movie. People didn't show up for that,
Speaker 2: I know, because it was trying not to do that. Yep.
Speaker 2: So it's like I can't even fault them for making
Speaker 2: the movie they made. I think. I think you go
Speaker 2: where the money is. But let's be very clear, this
Speaker 2: is an exercise in brand management and you should just
Speaker 2: know that going.
Speaker 3: In, yes, and leave it up to yourself if you
Speaker 3: feel okay about that. I mean, that's the thing he is,
Speaker 3: regardless of what you believe about all.
Speaker 2: Of the tales surrounding him.
Speaker 3: He is a controversial person, right, you know, And there's many,
Speaker 3: many layers of this person. And I wish the movie
Speaker 3: had dug into that because I'm interested. And also, is
Speaker 3: it irresponsible not to, you know, just to I don't know,
Speaker 3: turn him into this saintly figure that he he wasn't
Speaker 3: nobody is, you know, And so is that kind of.
Speaker 2: I don't know, just kind of I would say yes,
Speaker 2: I would say yes, it is irresponsible because that's not real. Yeah, apparently.
Speaker 2: I mean the you know, the first cut, the Antoine
Speaker 2: Fuqua submitted, you know, the way they shot it, it
Speaker 2: was the flashback situated around Michael dealing with the first
Speaker 2: of the accusations. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, because this begins full on Dewey Cox, right where
Speaker 3: he's about to go on stage for the Bad Tour
Speaker 3: and it's like the back of his head thinking about
Speaker 3: his life. The original version was him at Neverland Ranch
Speaker 3: looking in a mirror and police lights suddenly appear all around.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Like how did you think that? Like that?
Speaker 2: That's such a complete one to eighty from the movie.
Speaker 3: They made right, you know what actually, and maybe that
Speaker 3: is why we got the movie we got, you know,
Speaker 3: and we might not have even agreed with their take
Speaker 3: on everything, but at least it sounds like they were
Speaker 3: going to try to go there.
Speaker 2: And maybe.
Speaker 3: When they lost a huge portion of this movie and
Speaker 3: they had to like fill in the gaps and shoot
Speaker 3: new things and pad it out, maybe they lost a
Speaker 3: lot of grit along the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, no, I I think that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, you ended up sanding it down to just
Speaker 2: I mean that there's there's no texture at all, you know.
Speaker 2: The other thing is it with you know, and the
Speaker 2: story continued or something like whatever it says at the end, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, so are you what are you going
Speaker 2: to do the last twenty years of his life? What
Speaker 2: does that movie look like? You know?
Speaker 3: From interviews and things that I've read, it sounds like
Speaker 3: they could sidestep some of that stuff. I mean, you
Speaker 3: have to address it to some degree, but it sounds
Speaker 3: like they could do what they did here and just
Speaker 3: basically make a concert film and do you know whatever
Speaker 3: bad dangerous history history, right, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: By the way, speaking of controversial figures. Did you notice
Speaker 3: the guy cast as John Landis during the Thriller video?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like I.
Speaker 3: Was looking for him, yeah, because I knew Landis had
Speaker 3: directed it and I was curious if they'd show him,
Speaker 3: and they perfectly.
Speaker 2: They cast this guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh he's good. He's got a beard in the glasses.
Speaker 3: He totally looks like nineteen eighty three John Landis. But
Speaker 3: it's funny that they they do the thing I said
Speaker 3: they should have done with Janet, like they keep him
Speaker 3: in shadow and he is never because they're like, look, man,
Speaker 3: we're not even we don't need these towing frame together. Look,
Speaker 3: there's just so much to ignore.
Speaker 2: It's deafening. Yeah. But but Thriller was the one where
Speaker 2: I noticed.
Speaker 3: I was like totally moving in my seat and everybody
Speaker 3: in the theater was bopping' and it was really fun
Speaker 3: to watch.
Speaker 2: I mean, they basically show the whole music video recreated. Yeah. That,
Speaker 2: and I loved the scene where he's doing a beat
Speaker 2: it with the Crips and the Bloods. Yeah, that was
Speaker 2: cool and a true story, I guess. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: I think I think performing Billy Jean at the Awards show,
Speaker 2: like I mean, this is see, this is the thing right,
Speaker 2: Like to me, I'm able to hold these two thoughts
Speaker 2: in my mind. Michael Jackson was a complicated guy and
Speaker 2: one of the greatest musicians of all time. He has
Speaker 2: made some of the greatest songs ever made, full stop, right,
Speaker 2: And I think people are sophisticated enough to be able
Speaker 2: to hold both those thoughts. And so I don't see
Speaker 2: the the I don't see the value of of making
Speaker 2: a two hour promo reel for performances that you can
Speaker 2: just watch on YouTube.
Speaker 3: I'd agree with you, except I'm looking at the box office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so clearly I'm wrong on that regard, But I'm like,
Speaker 2: you have an opportunity here to go deep instead of wide.
Speaker 3: And even if they still tried to whitewash everything and
Speaker 3: they didn't go into the things that make it a
Speaker 3: little murkier, but they like, you know, in the eighties,
Speaker 3: there were so many rumors about him that he slept
Speaker 3: in a hyperbaric chamber.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he was dating Brooks Shields for a while.
Speaker 3: What was that about, Like his complicated relationship with Paul
Speaker 3: McCartney and you know, buying the Beatles music, you know,
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, Like, there's just so many interesting
Speaker 3: little things you could sort of dig into that might
Speaker 3: give you some more insight into who he was. Or
Speaker 3: how did he feel that he was very talented and
Speaker 3: beloved by a lot of people, but also a big
Speaker 3: portion of the world he's a weirdo, right, how did
Speaker 3: that feel? You know, like those are the things I
Speaker 3: wish And that's not even like going into like the deeper, darker.
Speaker 2: Waters that you know, like I don't know, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Like they just turn him into this saintly happy, go
Speaker 3: lucky kind of guy. Or I'm not happy, go lucky,
Speaker 3: but you know what I'm saying, like, right, well, they
Speaker 3: make him completely uninteresting and it's just everyone is always
Speaker 3: telling him how special he is.
Speaker 2: That's right. So I was thinking about how like, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, if you will you know, the the Dewey
Speaker 2: cox uh throwing a tearing the sinks out of the wall, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: like yeah, there's no see him lose it. There's no
Speaker 2: equivalent of that, right, And and you know, the equivalent
Speaker 2: of the rehab scenes in like all of these movies
Speaker 2: is when he's recovering from you know, the Pepsi commercial accident, right,
Speaker 2: And and again it's one of those things where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he's in so much pain, but here he is
Speaker 2: going and talking to other burn victims.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that he did all that totally. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying he didn't. I'm saying, like, why are you
Speaker 2: using all of these things as an opportunity to burnish
Speaker 2: the legend instead of take us inside him? Right, Like,
Speaker 2: even because that all happens because he's like, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do the tour for my family, even though Joseph piece
Speaker 2: of shit and whatever. Right, and by the way, his
Speaker 2: brothers weren't very nice to him either in real life,
Speaker 2: but you wouldn't know that from the movie, no, because
Speaker 2: they produced it exactly right. Yeah, and then here's the
Speaker 2: thing what essentially becomes the cathartic moment is where it's
Speaker 2: the end of the Jackson's Tour, the Victory tour, and
Speaker 2: he's like, by the way, this is our farewell. I
Speaker 2: think it's a great moment. Me too, but I would
Speaker 2: have liked it to mean more. But you know, we
Speaker 2: don't get into the anguish of why he's on this tour,
Speaker 2: And yeah, you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: And like you would imagine some shot where maybe he's
Speaker 3: even we know he wants to say it, and he's
Speaker 3: looking over at his brothers on the stage next to him,
Speaker 3: and like, in a way they kind of need him, right,
Speaker 3: and so there's a little bit of a hugh, but
Speaker 3: I gotta do this for me, you know, And maybe
Speaker 3: some conversation he had with someone in another scene that
Speaker 3: doesn't exist in this movie, like what's going on in
Speaker 3: his head? And yeah, that moment could have meant ten
Speaker 3: times more, but it's the Wikipedia version, you know. You
Speaker 3: know what those scenes. I've been bringing this up a
Speaker 3: lot when people ask me about the movie. I'm like,
Speaker 3: that scene actually encapsulates a lot for me in another way,
Speaker 3: which is you see him perform like a full song
Speaker 3: with the Jackson five on stage, and you know, it's
Speaker 3: like five six, maybe seven minutes of music and performance,
Speaker 3: which is great and I enjoyed it. Then he basically
Speaker 3: quits the Jackson five and says he's going to go
Speaker 3: out in his own and then we immediately go to
Speaker 3: him on tour. We don't really see a lot of
Speaker 3: the fallout. We just immediately see him on the bad
Speaker 3: tour next and I thought was, Oh, bummer, it's gonna
Speaker 3: end here.
Speaker 2: We just had all that music. I would really like
Speaker 2: to see him sing bad. But then he does. He
Speaker 2: goes on and sings bad for like five minutes. So
Speaker 2: I was like, that's what the movie is.
Speaker 3: It's music with like little interstitials in between of story.
Speaker 2: And and I will say, he Jeffari Jackson. Who is
Speaker 2: Michael's nephew. I don't care. I can't remember if we
Speaker 2: mentioned that, right, right, He's He's whose son is he?
Speaker 2: I don't remember, one of the brothers, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he, I mean, he became Michael in terms of
Speaker 2: the moves. I think I think it's it's worth recognizing
Speaker 2: that that that's not easy to do. There's plenty of
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson impersonators, but you know the way he because
Speaker 2: I've seen, you know, the Billy Jean Award Show performance.
Speaker 2: I mean, I I know that very very well. And
Speaker 2: I mean it's like he just embodied it, you know,
Speaker 2: And you know that's where he's Germane's son by the way,
Speaker 2: just okash for the sake of clarity, people like shouting
Speaker 2: it at their at their.
Speaker 3: Theirmain himself and Germaine it's like, come on, man, yeah,
Speaker 3: come on guys.
Speaker 2: So look it's a toe tapper. I think if that's
Speaker 2: what you expect going and you're gonna get it, And
Speaker 2: clearly that's something audience is like, and I want to look.
Speaker 2: I think there is it's good to have a movie like,
Speaker 2: it's good to have movie people show up, they're bopping
Speaker 2: their head, you know what. Good? Yeah, I I I
Speaker 2: don't think it's It didn't do much more for me
Speaker 2: than that. But I would also say, I g I
Speaker 2: guess it didn't really need to. You know, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of with you.
Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, Tailor two, Brian's like, I
Speaker 3: really enjoyed watching this, and I would watch it again
Speaker 3: because I know I would have a good time listening
Speaker 3: to some great music. But I am very disappointed that
Speaker 3: we didn't get a better look at this real complicated,
Speaker 3: interesting guy. And I would say that about any figure,
Speaker 3: but he is so complicated and controversial that I wonder
Speaker 3: if it almost borders on irresponsibility. Yeah, so I have
Speaker 3: very complicated feelings about it, and I talk about it
Speaker 3: probably differently with different people, you know, knowing.
Speaker 2: What they are looking for out of this.
Speaker 3: And I would completely respect. Also, I mentioned it to
Speaker 3: two friends I was with last night, and they're still
Speaker 3: just because they have complicated feelings about Jackson in the
Speaker 3: first place, they're still weighing whether or.
Speaker 2: Not they want to see it. Oh interesting, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: but they love his music. They're like, I kind of
Speaker 2: want to watch it.
Speaker 3: But I just after watching Leaving Neverland, I just have
Speaker 3: I wrestle with it, and I was like, I get it.
Speaker 3: I get it, so like it's I think it's all up.
Speaker 2: To you, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, I did have an interesting experience
Speaker 3: watching this. I watched it at the Sherman Oas Galleria,
Speaker 3: and when they show the Michael Jackson mansion the Chiron,
Speaker 3: it doesn't just say in Sino California. It says haven
Speaker 3: Hurst in Sino California. And I was like, wait, Havenhurst
Speaker 3: is the next major road over.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Yeah. So I put it into ways and
Speaker 2: it was a mile and a half away. Amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I actually after the movie, I drove over and
Speaker 3: I went to the gate and I saw the house.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'll be darn. I had no idea.
Speaker 2: It's just empty, I guess. I mean, there's like hedges
Speaker 2: and right, but you know it's just like like you know,
Speaker 2: time moves on, you know, oh sure, yeah.
Speaker 3: At one point there was drafts and bubbles of the
Speaker 3: chimp walking around behind.
Speaker 2: That game and just throngs of people, yes, yeah, which
Speaker 2: they show in the movie, right, yeah, all the people.
Speaker 2: One thing I will say real quick, Brian is is
Speaker 2: for for as as comically super villain esque Coleman, Domingo's
Speaker 2: performance was, as I said, I found him very watchable.
Speaker 2: But the you know, it definitely made me think, certainly
Speaker 2: as a parent, you know, what what do I owe
Speaker 2: my kids and what do they owe me? You know,
Speaker 2: it really made me sit with that, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'll be goddamn if I would ever do that
Speaker 2: to my kids, you know yeah. And I kept like,
Speaker 2: what is the psychology that would make someone do that
Speaker 2: to their kids? And he, you know, he's sitting there,
Speaker 2: He's like, look, if it wasn't for me, we'd still
Speaker 2: be a poor black family in Gary, Indiana. You know.
Speaker 2: But you know, without getting into the economic aspect of it,
Speaker 2: I think your kids would like to play outside, you know,
Speaker 2: like I think kids would like to be kids, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's like, is it worth it. You know, Joe
Speaker 2: Jackson outlived Michael by almost ten years. Did he wrestle
Speaker 2: with that. Did he wrestle with the idea that his
Speaker 2: son died at least partly because of him?
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, And just a lot of
Speaker 3: the things that I felt about this movie, I wanted
Speaker 3: to be able to back it up and like make
Speaker 3: sure that I was remembering things that were actual facts.
Speaker 3: And I found this quote from Joe Jackson when he
Speaker 3: was interviewed by Louis Thureaux and asked about if he
Speaker 3: beat him. Okay, and this is a quote from Joe Jackson.
Speaker 3: He said, I never beat him. I whipped him with
Speaker 3: a switch and a belt. I never beat him. You
Speaker 3: beat someone with a stick. So that's there we go.
Speaker 3: There's a glimpse into the mind of Joe Jackson. Wow,
Speaker 3: So in those ten years post Michael's death, did he
Speaker 3: think any differently?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't look like
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's like, wouldn't you rather have just
Speaker 2: had a healthy relationship with your kids? I don't know
Speaker 2: that's the best what.
Speaker 3: You hope you hope for parents, But you know, I
Speaker 3: want to say, because I was saying about scenes and
Speaker 3: just how thin they were, and but I did want
Speaker 3: to call out.
Speaker 2: I thought the first half of.
Speaker 3: The movie was actually very strong with all the Jackson
Speaker 3: five stuff I and I thought my favorite scene maybe
Speaker 3: in the movie was when young Michael is with that
Speaker 3: producer Yes, at the board and and he's just like,
Speaker 3: Michael doesn't get to do anything fun. All he has,
Speaker 3: you know, he he's got to practice day and night.
Speaker 3: When he comes home from gigs and he's tired, he's
Speaker 3: got to practice some more. And he has this moment
Speaker 3: with yeah Gordy, and Gordy's like, hey, you want to
Speaker 3: see how this works. Look, you know, you move these
Speaker 3: switches and the volume goes up, and you do, and
Speaker 3: and Michael's like completely into it. But then Joe comes
Speaker 3: in a is like, you know, get out here, stop
Speaker 3: bothering this guy, right, And I love then when Gordy
Speaker 3: is like, hey, anytime you have a question or you're
Speaker 3: interested in this, you can always ask me, right, And
Speaker 3: then when Michael like takes a step away and then
Speaker 3: goes back and hugs him.
Speaker 2: Yep, Oh my heart was great.
Speaker 3: Yeah that was good. I actually was like, oh, we're
Speaker 3: in for something good. Here, And I just wish that
Speaker 3: when they got into his adult life, those scenes had
Speaker 3: at least even if they are interstitial, like like we're
Speaker 3: just gonna touch on this beat when he's in a
Speaker 3: toy story, because explains this little part of him. This
Speaker 3: beat when he's in a hospital talking to burn victims,
Speaker 3: because that explains a little part of him. I wish
Speaker 3: they had at least been as textured as that scene
Speaker 3: was in the beginning.
Speaker 2: That's terrific. Yeah. Well, and what that scene really illustrates
Speaker 2: is how you know, Barry Gordy was interfacing with him
Speaker 2: on a talent level, like you know, yes, it was it.
Speaker 2: You know, he was talking to him as an artist, right,
Speaker 2: So it's showing like there's another way Joe could have
Speaker 2: gone that would have been just as meaningful. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's like pad's not taken, you know. Yeah, yeah, oh,
Speaker 2: there we go. Hey, we had lots of thoughts, lots
Speaker 2: of complicated thoughts about a complicated dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is great. I was really looking forward
Speaker 3: to talking about this with you. I think it is
Speaker 3: a movie that provokes a lot of discussion, for sure.
Speaker 2: Well, let us know your thoughts. I'm sure, I'm sure
Speaker 2: y'all listening. You have some about the film and about
Speaker 2: what we have to say, so you can email us
Speaker 2: at moviefilmpodcast at gmail dot com. You can also like
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Speaker 3: You also find bonus conversations that we drop about twice
Speaker 3: a month over there, and recently we talked about everything
Speaker 3: from Disney inventing their own version of IMAX for theaters,
Speaker 3: which was kind of interesting. We went over CinemaCon, we
Speaker 3: talked about the gig that I'd been working on and
Speaker 3: that's been keeping me busy the past month and a half.
Speaker 3: All that stuff's dropping over there, and it's a really
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Speaker 2: We'd be very grateful. And if you're looking for me
Speaker 2: on social media, you can find me at Zakie's Corner,
Speaker 2: that c Akis Corner. You can also find my reviews
Speaker 2: and writing at the San Francisco Chronicle and also at
Speaker 2: IGN and The Rap What About You Brian, You can.
Speaker 3: Find episodes I've written of Puppy Dog Pals and Young
Speaker 3: Jedi Adventures streaming on Disney Plus.
Speaker 2: There we go, And with that on behalf of my
Speaker 2: partner Brian Hall. My name is Zachie has On. This
Speaker 2: has been episode three forty two of The Movie Film Show.
Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time. Thanks everybody, Welcome.
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