Speaker 1: We're talking the twenty two creed More in an awesome
rifle build from Maniacal Arms with Todd Banua. Hey, I'm kJ,
dedicated lifelong hunter.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: If you've got an interest in all things hunting, if
you're in the right spot, whether chasing quell across the
plains of Oklahoma, we're in pursuit of belk in the
back country of British Columbia, you'll always find me on
the hunt, Gun Talk Hunters. I'm your host, kJ, and
today in studio we've got Todd Banua of Maniacal Firearms,
Maniacal arms, firearms, arms all the same. We're gonna get
into a conversation. But this episode is brought to you
by Ruger range Ready Studios and Eotech. All Right, to
start out, everything we do, I do an AI generated
poem about our host, and usually it involves a random
animal and a random fruit, maybe sometimes a vegetable. I
don't know why came up. Yeah, yeah, so this is
what it came up for. Todd Banua in the Bayous
where the Cypress Lean lives, Todd Banua machine so keen
with maniacal hands and craftsman's pride. He builds the truth.
No gun can hide steel in spirit, bolt, and breach.
He shoots fly. His shots fly truer than a Georgia peach,
through the wind and rain, through dusk and dawn. His
rifles hum a deadly song. A beaver watches from the
cypress roots as lead fly flew clean in tailored boots,
It tipped its hat. If beaver's due to the man
whose aim cuts clean and true from Cajun earth and
fire refined, Todd sculpt's precision. One of a kind, maniacal, sure,
But make no mistake, there's art in every gun he makes. Dude,
that's a that's AI generated.
Speaker 2: Even the reference to Georgia peach. I was born and
I did not know that I know, but it did apparently.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is weird.
Speaker 2: That's kind of kin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's this is the early stages. Yeah, no, like
I don't know how we got onto this. I was like, Oh,
I wonder if what it'll do, what it'll kick out?
And I think the first one was like there was
a kum quat and a I don't know, some other
animal another an animal, but uh, it's wild what it
can do. Yeah, and it's it's really wild. What cartridges.
This is a great segue. I'm gonna just go ahead
and say it's a great segue because because it's wild
what cartridges are coming out and what we're building off of.
You know, it starts with one and it leads to another,
and you're you're one of those guys. I feel like
it's always like what's possible with whatever your the flavor
of the week is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean and you know too, It's like, look,
a lot of credit to the guys at Horizon because
they really brought this twenty two creed more up to
light and just being everybody you know, but it's relatively
new to everyone else. They don't realize how long they've
been working on it, right, and then now that Hornerity's
on board, of course.
Speaker 1: Well now it's just mass producing. Yeah, right, everybody, Now
that's what everybody's talking to you because Hornity is a maybe.
They make great stuff. They are a great marketing tool
for rounds.
Speaker 2: They are one of the best.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say they're probably pretty dang close to
the best, because I don't see many they when they
grab hold of a cartridge or they create something new,
like you know, the twenty two arc or the six'
five of what THE Rc, yeah THE prc. Cartridges they
bring those to light and they're really able to shine
a good light on, them.
Speaker 2: And you, know and even like, that like the six FIVE.
Prc When hornity came out with, IT i was, like,
well we've had a six to five, song, right but
it wasn't you, know you had the, handloads you had
to do all these other things for, it and they
brought it into the light where it's like, now it's
now it's very very. Prolific everybody really likes that. Cartridge
and at FIRST i was, like, eh you, know Cause
i'm big ON i love six five to eighty, four,
Right but Then i'm, like, man like the more of
my build and, shoot and then you pair them with
that factory? Ammo you, KNOW i mean it's like These
that's how that's what brought me to these IS i
had a couple of customers say they wanted them, building
SO i was, like oh. Well and then so every
TIME i didn't have the, reamer SO i Was i'm
gonna go study up a little, bit see what's going,
on twist rates and you know all this, stuff And i'm, like,
wow that's pretty. Interesting i'm, LIKE i wonder WHAT i
could get out of, That, like you, know these guys
want to shoot factory or, whatever And i'm, like that's pretty,
Interesting so WELL i go ahead and throw me goe.
Together while you know.
Speaker 1: That's funny is that you start building your Own you're, like,
okay WHEN i know it's really good when you start
building your own, gun, well, well, Right and.
Speaker 2: You, know the the MORE i kept looking at it
and reading about, It i'm, like, man you know the
guys at the horizon they're shooting Black bear with them
at four, fifty you, know And i'm, like with.
Speaker 1: It twenty two creed.
Speaker 2: More, yes they have YouTube videos of, it you. Know
so then you start reading in the ballistics and all that,
stuff and you, know if you paired it BECAUSE i
always thought a six Creed more was probably was really
a better hunting cartridge than a six, five, okay because
it's a little more speed to, it so in speed equals, energy,
Right but then when you look at this and you
compare it to a six Creed, more let's say they're
running the same weight bullet an eighty grain okay out
to one thousand and twenty two retains more energy and
speed because of the sleekness of the.
Speaker 1: Bullet, okay so you get a BETTER bc out of.
Speaker 2: It, yeah and at four you, know at four hundred.
YARDS i MEAN i don't have it written, down BUT
i mean it was like it was pretty substantial difference
in foot pounds between a six and a twenty. Two
and WHEN i seen, THAT i was, like, wow, man
to not have much, equal, right because a lot of
guys really always go to, bigger heavier, guns but then
they don't shoot them as. Well you, know when you
have something that doesn't recoil much when you squeeze that
trigger and it's right. THERE i. Mean shot placement is
a big part of yeah stuff, too you know it.
IS i, mean and, LOOK i still love the big.
ONES i, mean you know, ME i got three hundred normally,
improved AND i shoot a lot of stuff with you,
too because something can't be too, dead.
Speaker 1: Right yeh can't mean it doesn't go, anywhere, Right and
shot placement is is huge on. Everything but when you're
talking about like a twenty two Creed more as opposed
to like a six moime or Creed, MORE i think
what a lot of guys are a little bit fearful
of especially if they shoot a. Lot most guys probably
will not shoot this gun enough to burn out barrels barrel,
life since it's it's, overboard like you would think that
that would play a role in someone's. Decision Because I'M
i am taxed right now BECAUSE i want to build
a gun and to build a new, one and Now
i'm taxed between WHETHER i shoot a twenty two Creed
more or DO i go with a six milimeter Creed more,
like SO i have TO i have to think about
barrel life Because i'm, like, well what IF i want
to shoot this in a?
Speaker 2: Match, WELL i MEAN i think that from What i've
read and looked, at it should be close to the
same if you if you stay off of, it.
Speaker 1: Right you know you're Not you're not pushing those pressures
and you're not pushing.
Speaker 2: SPEEDS i. Am i'm. TRYING i want to see what it'll.
Speaker 1: Do So i'm, what what is what is the twenty
two Creed more capable?
Speaker 2: Of so with reloading with Todes i've gotten with eighty
five and a half crane, Burgers i've got thirty six
fifteen of it good, gosh, yeah and and Decent. YEAH
i mean it's it's a, lot BUT i MEAN i
always want to see how far it'll go and then
some you, know all that because it may not always
shoot the greatest at the fastest you can run, it.
Right and the other DAY i did use some seventy
seven match kings and it and we went to, uh
probably thirty five seventy five with, it but four different
powder charges all shot two shot one whole groups at
one hundred really and uh but the highest powder charge
just got a little, separation not in the holes were,
touching but it wasn't like the other, ones, Right so
that kind of told me that we're starting to speed
it up a little too, fast, Right so we come
back a little bit on, it and then it should be.
Good but NOW i want to put fifty two's in
it match kings and see where they, go you. KNOW
I mean the problem Now i'm running into Is i'm
running out of case.
Speaker 1: Capacity you're stuffing it. In, now that's just that's The
cris you, know that's The Chris serno method of, reloading,
Right just fill it, up fill the case, up and
then press it.
Speaker 2: In i've crushed. POWDER i, mean, YEAH i.
Speaker 1: Don't, mind like crushing some powder every once in a,
while but like there's a there's a danger to.
Speaker 2: That well, well, YEAH i, mean and you know all
the you, know you always have to work up on
stuff like, that slow and small increments and always pay
attention to brass and primers and and. Stuff you.
Speaker 1: KNOW i, mean no, way no, Way chris does that?
Speaker 2: Really, yeah that's.
Speaker 1: Yeah well he just goes in there and he knows
what he likes and he's just, LIKE i just fill
it to the.
Speaker 2: Top what was crazy is those match kings the other
day WHEN i put them in they, UH i just
picked a seating up BECAUSE i was just pressure testing
it just to see what it would. Hold and they
all shot really good right. There, really but you, know
the the HORNEREDY i shot match and Precision hunter out of,
it and with those you, know twenty two inch barrel.
Here so, YEAH i just finished another one for a
guy that's a twenty four Inch, okay so we're gonna
do a little bit with. That he'll let me shoot
a little bit BEFORE i hand over to. Him but
the first ONE i did was a twenty two inch
and that guy tried four different, powders five different, projectiles
and he called me up and said he had a
problem with. It AND i was, like, well what's the
problem and he, said, WELL i can't get it to shoot.
Bad everything's under half. Inch And i'm, like well that's
a good.
Speaker 1: Thing he's like, that that's a great.
Speaker 2: Thing. Yeah he, goes, Well i'm bringing you another action.
TODAY i want to build another. One AND i was, like,
Okay i've built him one good.
Speaker 1: Better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes you, know and.
Speaker 1: Especially if you find something that shoots and something that.
Speaker 2: Work, yeah and he and he likes to. Shoot he
goes on the weekends and shoots a. Lot AND i
MEAN i built him a six arc last year and
he took it To texas and killed seven.
Speaker 1: Deer with no.
Speaker 2: Kidding, yeah you know WHAT i. Mean and people wouldn't
really think of that six arc as being a NO
a hunting, cartridge but you, know high shoulder shot at
twenty eight hundred feet a. Second, yeah put a one
oh five or one o.
Speaker 1: Eight that's going to. Anchor, YEAH i mean it's. Fine.
Yeah and, well because one of my favorite cartridges of
all time is the twenty two two, fifty, RIGHT i,
mean and for me and deer like that high shoulder shot,
anchorum you might have to put one more.
Speaker 2: In and that's what kind of that's what kind of
got me on. That WHEN i started looking at everybody
was comparing it to, it, going, well it's this going
to be better than the twenty two two Fifty And i'm, like,
man that's see a tall.
Speaker 1: Order it is a tall order because it's a traditional, round,
Right and see that's WHERE i get in today's like
cartridge designs and what we're able to do because the
technology is just simply better.
Speaker 2: Bullet you, know bullets have came so much further than
than what carts even case and then you, KNOW i
mean now with the back country that that's a case
designer we haven't seen in a long you know ever gallery. Stuff,
yeah so that's that's changing the game. There you, know
that's a good you, know but guns and all that
haven't really came that, far but bullet the design and
of the, construction the construction has gotten so now you,
know if you can shoot something small that's light, recoil.
Speaker 1: Well think of what it does for youth shooters like.
It it eliminates a lot of the problems they, develop you,
know shooting at a young age and a little bit
recoil adverse to now they're you, know there is no.
Recoil they see their, shots they know where they're.
Speaker 2: Hitting, yeah that's a that's a big.
Speaker 1: Deal, oh it's Hugely. Yeah but are we are we
nosing out like some of the traditional, cartridges because it's my,
Fear LIKE i love the twenty two two. Fifty i've
got like five of them in my safe BECAUSE i
love them somewey, Right are we nosing those? OUT i don't.
Speaker 2: KNOW i, mean you, KNOW i feel like there's always
going to be that's. ALL i. Think that's one of
the beauties of rifles is that there is really no
one and done perfect for everything, cartridge right, RIGHT i
think if there's you, know you're obviously not going to
take a twenty two Creed more and go moose hunting
with it right.
Speaker 1: Now don't Tell Tyler frele that, technically because he will do.
Speaker 2: It it could if you want to get up in
there close with him and you're running them at some
high speeds with the right. Bullets but but it's still
it's just not it's not the voice for.
Speaker 1: That you know WHAT i THINK i want to, SAY
i Think Tyler frile did shoot his, moose you, know
this year or last year with a twenty two Creed.
Speaker 2: MORE i want to see something about that.
Speaker 1: TOO i think he.
Speaker 2: DID i may have seen that.
Speaker 1: And and And i've Seen tyler. Shoot he is. Excellent
he spends a lot of time developing. Loads BUT i
want to say he. Did.
Speaker 2: YEAH i, mean that's even even bullet you, know like
we're talking about bullet. CONSTRUCTION i mean me and a
buddy mine where my range is at is at his.
House we have five hundred yards Here. Luisiana that's a
long way, right long, ways and and we both hunt a.
Lot his, kids both his sons, Hunt so we test
a lot of we try things, right you, know just
shooting does or, whatever hogs whatever it may, be to
see bullet how they, Operate, yeah how they. Function and you,
know we got on the solids a couple of years,
ago and and we like. Them but then there's some
limits to them, too you, know the. Solids if you
run them too, fast they just zip through and there's
no blood trails and. Stuff there's a happy, yeah there.
Is so so there's always like a you, know and
the same thing is going to be with THIS i, mean,
now would that thirty six fifteen that burger be the
one to hunt? With, probably you, know MAYBE i would.
TRY i will try it on a hog coming up
here pretty, soon but you, know just just to see
what it'll. Do you. Know i've always kind of shot
like the match kings and match bullets at animals that
everybody kind of shies away from.
Speaker 1: Them but let's let's take could break, here and let's
let's continue the bullet. Construction Because todd is really big
into factory loads out of his guns. First that's how
he tests. Everything, like everything's held up to a standard
and it's factory, loads like because everybody doesn't, handload, right you,
know everybody doesn't. Handloads that gun can shoot factory loads.
GOOD i, mean, yeah why not shoot.
Speaker 2: That that's one of the reasons WHY i like the
hornedy stuff. Though the match The Precision, hunter, yeah you,
know the nozzle or trophy grade is good. Stuff norma
is making some pretty good. Box, yes they've seen shooting
out out of guns. THAT i went by a guy's
place to shoot with him AND i built him a
six FIVE. Prc. Yeah WHEN i shot, IT i shot
The Precision hunter out of it and, it you, know
wadded him. Up it shot grade at five hundred and
THEN i went to his house and he's, like, oh
you need to shoot my. Rifle AND i, SAID i
zeroed it for. YOU i built, IT i shot, it and,
NO i want you to shoot this. Ammo and it
was some norma like one yeah tipped you, know hunting.
ROUNDS i don't remember the name of the off, hand
but THEY i shot three of, them almost touching at two.
Twenty no, kids his, distances his range in thus AND
i was, like holy, Cow SO i took. IT i
have some pictures of the boxes on my, thing And i'm,
LIKE i put some of those in the. Shop when
people buy those, RIFLES i like to HAVE ammo around.
That we always have hornity stocked up.
Speaker 1: In oh, yeah yeah you. Do all, Right we're gonna
take a bake real. Quick we'll be right. Back you
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right we're back With todbenera Of Maniacal arms And write
out Of, Covington. Louisiana, so AND i think it's a
great time to plug Your instagram account because, dude you're
posting all the time like the guns that you're building
at the.
Speaker 2: TIME i should be posting, more But i'm just.
Speaker 1: Well you're kind of.
Speaker 2: Busy, god it just takes me Because i'm not good at.
Speaker 1: It WHAT i need to do IS i just need
to run up there once a week and film what
you're doing and Then i'll, post.
Speaker 2: You, know we started or open the YouTube channel because
we wanted to do some stuff like that every, week
like maybe On, monday like Maniacal, monday you, know what
are we going to do this? Week or what did
we do last? Week but one of the PROBLEMS i
have with that too is, that especially with our paint
in our, BUILDS i don't ever post stuff out on
social media until the customer gets it in their. HANDS
i like them to be the, first you, know and then.
Speaker 1: Because that's that's, personal like that's.
Speaker 2: There, Yeah AND i mean and, TWO i get a
lot of satisfaction from that of their reaction and there you,
know they're liking of the of the whatever it, is
whether it's A Sarah coach job or a custom. Build
that means a lot to. Me SO i don't SO
i KNOW i hosted or send them to tell you they,
said oh, man we'll send me a picture of. IT
i can't get there till next. Week, No i'm, LIKE
i don't do. That i'm, Sorry they're like post them
all over social. Media i'm, like it be after you get.
Speaker 1: It, yeah, yeah THAT'S i, mean that's a fair way
to do it and then IT i, LIKE i like that.
Policy it's a good one to. Have but we were
talking a little bit about so, anyway maniacal arms go
give them a look over On. INSTAGRAM i love their
stuff BECAUSE i have a couple of the guns myself
And i'm about to build another Where todd's about to
build me another.
Speaker 2: ONE i actually talked With wooks yesterday and we built
your rifle for a buildbox a couple of seasons ago
on A wooks. Chassis AND i was talking to the
gal yesterday and she, said, well, look let us know
when you get it together and post, it because we'll
repost it for, you, Right AND i was, LIKE i
really appreciate. THAT i, said you, know y'all reposted one
of my other rifles THAT i built for the host
of Gun talk and or a, buildbox and it really
went over. GOOD i got a lot of lot of you,
know traction from. It and she, goes, oh my, goodness that's.
You And i'm like, yeah and she's, like you don't
know how many Times i've sent that video to people
of that. Gun she's, LIKE i know three different guys
out BECAUSE i think she's In. Arizona she's, LIKE i
know three different guys out here that have copied that
gun or tried to copy, it because there's no.
Speaker 1: Way there's no way you can copy that. Gun there's,
well there is a.
Speaker 2: Way he did copy it because and they wanted. It
BUT i called you.
Speaker 1: First you, DID i did, Well and it's not exactly the.
Same it's not a little bit a little, different, yea
because you you, do you having a unique touch on
every single every single gun you put. Out AND i
think you, know if you're looking to to get a
get get a gun, built or or tune a gun,
up even.
Speaker 2: Three, barrels and you do a lot of that right, now,
SPRINGTIME i Bet i've been doing four or five optic
mounts on shotguns a, week no. Kidding, yeah, well and
then you know a lot of times you'll get sir
coated on LIKE i did one morning BEFORE i came.
Speaker 1: Here really, yeah see that's.
Speaker 2: Big, now see my, Thing, luisiane it's.
Speaker 1: My thing is is. Man you you've got to be
doing the stuff you're wanting in the. Fall you got
to be doing. IT i would, say good time In,
march In april or the time to get it in
because you get booked up because you, know closer you
get to hunting, season guys are, like oh, CRAP i
meant to do.
Speaker 2: That it's always out of your mind until it gets that,
time you. Know and then two it's always Like June
july is always barren because because that's time when you take.
Vacation kids are out of, school you take vacation with the,
family all that, stuff you, know and it's like if
you go, spend you drop a deposit on the custom.
Rifle your wife's, like what did you do on the
back of the. Neck because you're supposed to go To Disney.
Speaker 1: World, OH i hope my wife doesn't listen.
Speaker 2: To This Disney. World but somewhere else, Cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah somewhere somewhere. Unique don't get me started on the
flight To orlando from anywhere in the. Country if you're
going To orlando and you're on a, flight maybe it's for,
business maybe you're going to THE I Cash show or
just visiting, family but every flight To orlando.
Speaker 2: Sucks it's like an hour from here, Too LIKE i, know.
Speaker 1: Because it's all. Kids it's all kids and just. Going
please let me have parents that give a.
Speaker 2: Ship, yeah turn it.
Speaker 1: Up, yep sunglasses, on shields. Up. Everything it's That july
and you're wearing a. Hoodie, yeah BECAUSE i don't want
to interact with.
Speaker 2: You are you ready To turkey?
Speaker 1: Hunt yeahkey oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah we just launched A turkey episode the other. DAY
i need to show you because we have A i
have a little call, Keeper like it's like a call
keeper THAT i have and it's. UH i put mouth
washing it in little water and, dude it keeps the
calls fresh and WHEN i pull them, out it's like
it freshens my breath a little.
Speaker 2: Bit yeah.
Speaker 1: Exactly so, wow what a what a great side. Quest
so we were talking about twenty two creed more and
like box. Ammunition we were starting to talk about that
and in the stand that you hold your guns to
to be able to shoot those very. Precisely. Yeah, actually
that was the one time That i've ever Outshot Chris.
Serno was that was with the gun that you built.
Him you chambered in six five three. More he took
it from three o eight to sixty, five AND i outshot,
him AND i shot probably the best Group i'll ever.
Shoot it's it's just outside one whole, group, right five
shots with factory FACTORY amo and so why do you
why do you hold the guns to that? Standard is
is PRODUCTION ammo better than it has been Or?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely they're definitely making it better now than they used,
to you, know ten fifteen years, ago for. SURE i
mean they you, know when you look at like the other,
day WHEN i shot this with the would box MATCH
ammo five or seven shots with AN s AND d of? Nine,
yeah that's that's pretty that's pretty tight for factory LOADED.
Ammo you, know because even like IN, prs we were
always looking for single digit you, know handload and we're
looking for single digit. Stuff, yeah we're shooting for your,
yeah just ye, digits you, know because then when you
dial a, scope it's it's. TRUE i mean the Two
i'm about to build a third one of the twenty
two with a BOX amo From. Hornity i've seen some
inch and three quarter groups at five hundred at five
hundred yards with three, shots yeah really. Yep, yeah the
SIXTH arc, Two, okay seen a lot with. That that
m is like the guy built it for he's trying
to handload for, it And i'm like it at one hundred,
yards it'll shoot eight of them in the same hole
With hornity match and at five hundred it's an inch
and a quarter inch and a Half and that's not, exaggeration,
right pictures and, stuff you, know the.
Speaker 1: Oh, NO i get. That, yeah it's like he's, like
look WHAT i, did and it's, like how do you you?
Speaker 2: Know? Now, granted like with the sixth, arc you, know
the factory offerings are meant for gas, gun, right SO
i have to keep the pressures, down so technically there
is a little more room there if you handload and
squeeze a little more performance out of. It for. Sure,
okay as all, is but but with, that especially because
it's they can't make one for a boat and one
for gas because some goofball put the boat gun stuff
in his gas go on and lock it up and
then cry about it To, hornity you, know like they.
Speaker 1: Do, so, hey here's a question for. You so you've
got the twenty two creed, more you've got a twenty two,
Arc like, Why, like where's the difference there? Is they're
like four hundred feet per second type deal with the
twenty two arcs just running a little bit.
Speaker 2: Slower, well the ONES i did were SIX i did Ax.
YEAH i did a gas gun for a guy with
the twenty two that went To, georgia okay about a
month and a half ago or, whatever a predator you,
know you're learning for shooting kytes and. Stuff and then
we did a thermal on it and, stuff and it
was it was around the same speech as the sixes,
are you, know and they get twenty seven hundred feet
per second. Range BUT i think it's gonna end up
being similar to like comparing the six to the twenty
two creed more, RIGHT i think because of the, bullet
THE bc of the bullet and the sweetness of its
just gonna. CARRY i mean this thing here the other
day WHEN i was shooting factory with, it which the
factory Off i'm getting with a twenty two inch like
right at twenty two d a second with hornity match
one hundred yards zero five hundred yards was uh one
point seven? Real and then, yeah and then with and
then with the handload STUFF i was, doing it was
like one point. Three good, god he get the five.
HUNDRED i, mean what is that?
Speaker 1: FOR i, mean because when you're you're talking like a
rough live creed, more you're looking at, three so you're
cutting it in a half almost and twenty two Creed
more is a neck Down, yeah that's so can you
shoot this like so beyond the varmint in? Whitetail and
according To Tyler, friele WHICH i believe, him like goose,
hunting like what twenty two Creed, more what are you
able to get away with like in? Competition BECAUSE nrl,
hunter which is WHAT i would love to shoot it.
At i've got to look at the, rags But i'm
pretty sure like it'll meet power, factor but it won't
meet it will not meet power factor if you're, handloading
but if you're shooting factory, loads power factor doesn't.
Speaker 2: Matter oh then, yeah so that match ammos is PRETTY i,
MEAN i wouldn't be scared to shoot a match with that. Stuff,
No i've.
Speaker 1: Been that's ALL i shoot matches with is FACTORY amo
and it's ALL i. Shot a match did not finish, Well,
okay but it's not that's not it's not the AMA's,
faults not the gun's faut it's my. Fault but when
it was not, WINDY i was shooting hornity blims blim
ammo right and it was.
Speaker 2: Great, YEAH i mean you, know and there's always that that,
question like you, know or that that statement LIKE i,
NEED i want to, go and that shoots this, right
that can shoot good groups out to a, thousand you,
know let's just say minute going into a, thousand a
minute going to a thousand or even five. Hundred, Right
but you can build it that way and all the
equipment can match up to, that but there's still one
factor of it that plays into, that and that's that human. Fact.
Right you, KNOW i tell, GUYS i can't come squeeze
the trigger for.
Speaker 1: Him you, know there's no you got to spend time
behind that gun and then you got to get intimate with.
Speaker 2: It BUT i feel like with something like this versus
a big magnum cart is, now, LOOK i feel like
this IS i Know tyler did kill something at least with.
It to, me it's like a mule deer down kind of,
car right then, respectively probably out to about five hundred
would would kind.
Speaker 1: Of that would be limits on it with factory.
Speaker 2: Stuff so what WOULD i mean just BECAUSE i mean
you still have to you, KNOW i don't. Know ethical
hunting is a big discussion among a lot of, people
and you, know some people feel, like you, know shooting,
anything no matter what you're shooting at them at a
thousand yards is not. Ethical BUT i feel like ethical
is dependent on the, individual. Right, yes if you know
what your limits are and you study your cartridge and
you know what your energy at what distance you're, producing
that that's kind of WHERE i. Start you. KNOW i
got in a situation on my first bull ever In
colorado years, ago had a seven arson AND i knew
what the BULLETS i was shooting was pretty much mixed
out for a bull at about seven hundred yards seven twenty. Five,
yeah and a bull walks out at eight, fifty and
this guy's, going you can make that you shoot.
Speaker 1: COMPETITION i, can't AND i.
Speaker 2: COULD i could have hit that bull with, It i'm
almost certain of, it BUT i didn't even try BECAUSE
i felt LIKE i Wasn't that wouldn't be fair to
that the, game, Right but, well happily that's where my
line was drawn that. Day but THEN i went back
to the shop built a twenty eight nozzle and so
next time.
Speaker 1: That next, time that won't. Happened so that's. Funny i'll
build something bigger than carry that. ENERGY i, mean that's The,
yeah that was the, point you, know, WELL i mean
when you talk about energy in the six five or
six millimeter as opposed to a twenty two Creed, more
what what range is best for? That? Like is it
the kind of the similar.
Speaker 2: If you compare? Them AND i, think, Actually i'm don't
quote me on, this But i'm pretty sure it was
a horizon that has a video on YouTube of a
comparison of drop charts of each right with foot pounds
energy drop at the distances and it's you, know four,
hundred it's definitely doing better, still and even out to a,
thousand it was still maybe one hundred feet per second
faster than the six running equal weight. Bullets and then you,
know maybe eighty or so foot pounds still. More its just,
carrying it's it's carrying.
Speaker 1: More the BC's, better which translates into like your better.
Speaker 2: Velocities, yeah you keep the speed going then obviously that you,
know speed equals, Energy so if you keep the speed,
up then the foot pounds is a little better. Too, Right.
Speaker 1: So all this to, say You're i'm going to be
building a twenty to Creed.
Speaker 2: MORE i, mean, look if somebody doesn't buy that, One
i'll hunt with that one this. Year BUT i sold
my hunting rifle last, year my regular deer. Rifle, yeah so.
Speaker 1: Four so the six five two eighty four is, out
the twenty two Creed more is. In that's what you're.
Speaker 2: RIGHT i want to be able TO i want TO
i like to have that. Knowledge, YEAH i, mean oh,
Yeah well it's a real world yeah, right Because i'm
going to shoot some hogs with it and. Stuff but they're,
different different than. Deer and but so what's in All
my hog killing spots are all kind of close quarter,
anyway so it's, yeah you get to really stretch its,
legs get its.
Speaker 1: Legs, SO i, mean we've been talking about this twenty
two Creed more that's on the desk in front of,
us but we have not talked about a single element
aside from the. Cartridge so what have you what have
you done to make this one unique and stand? Out
what what have you included with all of?
Speaker 2: It, WELL i, mean you, know as far as, parts.
Yep so we've been building a fair amount on Mac. Bros,
actions especially this element that's, bolt, yeah fluted, bolt split
rail recoll ug. Machine then the rails are screwed and
Pen BUT i think it's like on the short actions
like nineteen six ounces or something that's pretty pretty. Steel you,
know it has some stuff cut away from it where
it's not that doesn't need, it and they're all straight
so and they don't break the bank. Either well that
get them in for under a thousand for.
Speaker 1: Sure that's the biggest thing with an action Because I'm
i'm sitting here And i've got To i've got to
purchase an, action like that's the next. Step that's the
next step That i've got to. Do And i'm, LIKE i,
mean you can go with an impact and.
Speaker 2: See like, now like build a match, rifle AND i
do build hunting. RIFLES i got A mbk inpact to
the shop right now that's gonna have a seven perce
built on. It, SO i, mean BECAUSE i love impacts of,
Actions oh, yeah they're, great but a lot of, times
like this rifle because of it being a little more
on the budget from each. Side WHEN i build, THEM
i try to keep them like that so when someone
does want to buy, it it's not super high, end right.
Build you, know we've been using THESE bsf barrels for
a little while. Now every one of them that we've
built so far Shoots i've had one or two of
them that needed thirty or fifty rounds in, it and
then they seem like they came into where they need to.
Be but they've they've been nice and they're not breaking
the bank, either you.
Speaker 1: Know, WELL i know there's a lot of Different like
now it seems like carbon, barrels like there's there's a
ton of them out, there because it kind of kind
of started with proof and, right Uh christians and. Arms
REALLY i used The bartlin. Carbons, Yeah brooks are Not,
brooks uh benchmark carbon helix, Six carbon, Six carbon, Six yeah,
BARRELS i mean so carbon.
Speaker 2: Six i've used a bunch of them because they're right
here In.
Speaker 1: Louisiana you.
Speaker 2: Know it's this was kind of built budgetly to so
that when guys come, in it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't shock, them, right but well.
Speaker 2: We we just recently did like this builder's wall at
the shop where we have actions on display in barrels
and stocks and chassis so that guys can come in
and like pick up an action and be, like OH
i like this the way this feels or feel how
light it is instead of it being in a full,
rifle you, know just so guys can can check it,
out like in this can WE'VE i couldn't keep them
in during hunting. Season they're made By Mike brothers as.
Well it's A zenith titanium. Short it comes with a
break or a cap on, it so it's so it's
it's good for, hunting you know. WHAT i go shoot
r s match with. IT i like My maverick from four.
Nineteen you know That that's WHAT i would shoot on
my mate. Rifle but for a hunting rifle, short everybody's
getting to these like they're wanting these barrels shorter and.
Shorter THE nbk is going to be a twenty inch
seven po THAT'S i just finished a twenty inch six y. Five,
yeah and then WHEN i go shoot it with, factory
it's like twenty seven eighty feet per, second but still
taking that magnum recall off of, it AND i PUT
i put a brake on it for. Him but then
after he shot, it he was, like, man that thing's
like a. Grenade go, Yeah And i'm, like, yes, yeah
it's like the difference between a three Inch street fifty
seven and a ten Inch street fifty. Seven big.
Speaker 1: Difference, yeah, right but you got to call us on.
Speaker 2: It, yeah and that's one of my crack up match. Rifles,
Yep Trigger Tech trigger you, know hopefully the tear thing
don't ruin that for, everybody you. KNOW i, mean they're
they're one of The they're one of the only companies
that we of products we build with all the. Time
that's not Us, mate Their. Canadian but they have a
facility now in The United states. Warehouse they're shipping, too
AND i think they're trying to get stuff going there,
too to be building there as.
Speaker 1: Well but they've been really. Consistent, man The Trigger techs
have is one Thing i've noticed over the, Years like
they're they they're just. Consistent if you you pull a
large majority of JUST prs and n r L, a
it's very. Consistent AND i, liked you, know look.
Speaker 2: There and that's not to say there isn't other good
stuff out, there you. KNOW i MEAN i like the
bigs And. Andy's i'm built with those that guys. Requested you.
Know FOREVER i HAD i put jewels and, everything and
then DURING covid things got hard for them and they
couldn't keep it, going you, Know and NOW i got.
It NOW i have three left handed jewels in my.
Speaker 1: Shop really that don't Tell. Ryan he might buy one of,
them just in.
Speaker 2: Case i'm going to probably build him a rifle coming up,
Anyway so.
Speaker 1: Oh, really, yeah what's the?
Speaker 2: Building he hasn't said, nothing BUT i Think i'm gonna
build something just to do some testing on Because i'm
interested in this new seven back.
Speaker 1: Country see that one gets me Because i'm, like, MAN
i almost want to see what it'll do out of
an eighteen inch. Barrel, like let's go real, short how
short can we?
Speaker 2: Go, yeah they're doing. IT i, mean, horizon those guys
are doing. It they got a sixteen inch when they're
they're really jumping. Around, YEAH i mean and if you
get you, know if you figure it's at this, speed
then at sixteen, inches maybe at twenty eight hundred in
stead of three. Thousand that's a lot of standard rifles
are that.
Speaker 1: Speed it's kind of, yeah you.
Speaker 2: Through eight what twenty six, something you, KNOW i mean
that kills all over the, world six all Those BUT
i have a barrel that's that someone ordered that they didn't. Use,
really So i'm, like well maybe, Ill SO i got
A reamaru in like two weeks. Ago i'm gonna build
one BECAUSE i want to just do, mean why not
want you, know AND amo has been pretty hard to.
Get we talked about that a couple of years. AGO
i called you AND i actually got picked them up
yesterday a few days. Ago, yeah one of my wholesalers
had some on. Allocation so they were, like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well we have someone on. Hand not a, lot BUT
i mean because it was hard to get, yeah right
in the seven back. Country, YEAH i think.
Speaker 2: THAT i hope so BECAUSE i think it's cool that
they're that because like we were talking, about like these
guys really want short barrels because of hunting, suppress, Right and,
Look i'm all FOR i do what the customer, wants,
right AND i AND i try to help them along
that that path and, say well you know this is
you're gonna get this or that like that one the
BARREL i, Have i'm gonna probably make it a twenty
two inch to start, with and Then i'll just keep chopping,
down chopping down to just check some different speeds and
stuff Because i'm always and me and my buddy THAT
i shoot with all the, time you, know he he
likes speed. Too he's got like six, five three hundred
rum we run some one twenty four solids in, it you,
know four thousand feet a second and stuff like, that
just to.
Speaker 1: See you. Know and BUT i mean, really oh yeah it,
kills they, Kill, yeah it does speed.
Speaker 2: Kills, yeah but In, louisiana you, know we're we're.
Speaker 1: Shootings that's WHY i like going up To oklahoma Or
texas or out, west LIKE i can stretch the capabilities
of what the round is used.
Speaker 2: For, like, yeah that's what's. Purpose But i'm really interested
in that that peak alloy. STUFF i, mean that's just
because we haven't seen anything like that other than THE
sig seventy. Seven yeah that that was kind of, similar
but you, know a little. Different but yeah it's uh
oh it's. Different, yeah, man but hard to come by, apparently.
RIGHT i, mean, well and you, know the the Thing
I'm i'm looking forward to that seven back country BECAUSE
i kind of got let down by The valkyrie LIKE
i had BECAUSE i happened to BE.
Speaker 1: I was thinking we were going to make it through
this whole podcast without being bringing up the two to
two Four. Valkyrie but here we.
Speaker 2: Are that's WHY i Have that's why not why but
one of the reasons WHEN i built. This i'm, like,
WELL i got five thousand to twenty four, bullets SO
i might as well build something to shoot them, with
BECAUSE i you, KNOW i got them off with somebody
that had A valkyrie that didn't want to shoot it,
anymore AND i pot all their loading.
Speaker 1: Stuffs The valkyrie had a lot of, promise it really, did.
Speaker 2: AND i actually GOT i was In baker At core and,
Uh Jeremy gillen was there and he was shooting the
proto type rifle in the FIRST prs, match like a
one day match to see how it would hold, up you,
know out to a thousand as far as spot and
hits and things like. That and then they actually used
it as The they had two guys tied that day
and they used it as to shoot off for.
Speaker 1: The for the.
Speaker 2: Win, yeah SO i got to shoot it after the
match was over and. Stuff SO i was super pumped on.
That i'm, like, NO i just got to shoot the
first ever of this, right, well that's you know out
there and all this. Stuff and then a customer came
into the shop and wanted one built for like mid
RANGE f, Class SO i built him. One and then
eight months later he came in and, SAID i want
to sell. It my wife's. Sick he's an older, guy
he's my wife, sick AND i want to sell the.
Gun AND i was, like what do you want for?
It and when he told, ME i was, like, oh
because it was way less than what he had spent
to build. It AND i looked at it as a.
COMPONENT i didn't really want to shoot it so so,
much But i'm, like, WELL i kind of A ZERMAT tl,
three you, Know magpul, Chassis like, yeah like the good
Mag pul, chassis you, know get parallel and all, this
AND i, said, Yeah i'll buy. That he, goes, well
what about my load and? Stuff BECAUSE i want to
sell it. Too so then we packaged it all in
and it was like twenty three pounds of, powder five thousand,
projectiles ten thousand, primers all the dies for the two twenty,
four all the stuff for, it and packaged all. In
So i've been sitting on all this all these two twenty, fours.
Speaker 1: So there's a little resentment.
Speaker 2: There SO i and it's and it was left handed
THAT i built for, him and my wife has left eye.
Dominant so in my mind at the, time the WAY
i justified it was, Well i'll buy it for. Her,
yeah she can shoot it left. Handed that's WHAT i.
Speaker 1: Did all the EVERYTHING i buy, is, oh it's for my,
wife it's for. Her.
Speaker 2: Yeah my buddies has a has he's got a son
that's eight. Now, yeah and.
Speaker 1: He's buying a lot of guns for his eight year. Old.
Speaker 2: HUH i just finished his sixth custom rifle for his
eight year. Old. No, yeah and that's and he probably
started building them like two years ago or.
Speaker 1: Something, no, kiddy so he's been you've been cranking him.
Out he's keeping.
Speaker 2: Business he bought like some company of of used not,
used but new old stock Of remington seven. Hundred, yeah
and just like a handful of old barrels like, that
like twelve fifteen. Rifles, yeah he has bought them all different, shorts, longs,
mags you, know six eight whatever or two two three boat,
faces all this stuff and just brings him in and
sits them. Down he's, like, okay just we put tape
on him and we, go this one's gonna be, this
this one's gonna be, that this one's gonna be, this this.
One it's, like whenever you get a, chance just through
it and build. It so we so we blueprint that
action and then put. Whatever that's the twenty four inch
twenty two creed MORE i just. Finished it was on
one of Those, yeah twenty swift coming around three hundred.
NORMA i mean his son's going to have them. All,
yeah his. Son they wanted to see if he could
shoot the. Norma SO i broke mine over to the
range and the little little guy yea and, uh but
he can. Shoot he kills some some good deer, too and.
Uh we put him at three hundred and uh and
he center punched that. Deer that's still deer. Talking so
would you think he, said it's not. Bad it's got
it's got a four nineteen hell fire and, stuff you.
Know and he's, like it's not that. Bad AND i, said,
okay you want to go to five. Hundred he's, LIKE
i never shot at five her. BEFORE i, said well
you about. TO i dialed it to five hundred and
got him in it and settled him in and paunched.
It his dad said you we're gonna build one of.
Speaker 1: Those, yeah, okay see THAT'S i feel, like Maniacle arms
needs to have just a range day and go, okay
here's this. Gun and then oh, yeah we're gonna build that. Gun,
yeah oh, no here building and they now want that.
Speaker 2: One it tacks me Because i've had guys come in
that that have built stuff and bring your wife with
him or whatever and go to the range to shoot
what they got, built and and their wife's standing. There i'm, like, well,
hey you want to shoot, This and we always put
them at five hundred and they're, like that's way down
there and five football field and you can do, that you,
know and then they sit. Down of, course women always shoot.
Speaker 1: Good they alwayshoot.
Speaker 2: Better, yeah always shoot, better especially at the, beginning and
they always hanging in. That you see him light, up
And i'm like that right. THERE i did that for
one guy that he built two rifles for his wife
because she's going to matches with him and.
Speaker 1: Stuff you, know that's, cool that's.
Speaker 2: Awesome that's a good way to spend time with.
Speaker 1: It it, is it. Is. Yeah. YEAH i always Hear
chris's stories about traveling the country with his family shooting
matches and, stuff and he said it was like the
best time of my. Life he, goes it was. Awesome
we were all together doing something we. Loved. Yeah, yeah
it's a good way to do.
Speaker 2: It, yeah mine used to sit and cheerlead for me at,
matches but she. Did she didn't want to shoot too much.
Speaker 1: Pressure, yeah oh, yeah.
Speaker 2: She'd probably DO f class would be okay, first a
little more, mellow it's. Mellow BUT prs she was, like absolutely,
not no.
Speaker 1: Way we tell her to go watch AN nrl geeve
the wheels come off yard cell. Everywhere all, RIGHT i
think that's. It we'll have you back because, YEAH i,
mean ONCE i start putting all the stuff together and
we build, it we'll get back on here and show.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Right all, Right gun, talk, hunters you know what to.
Do those barrels point in a safe. Direction