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<v Speaker 1>We are face today with quite a few theocrats who

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<v Speaker 1>think that we should all be following their god. I

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<v Speaker 1>had a conversation recently with someone I'm very close to

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<v Speaker 1>about how they think if we based all laws on

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<v Speaker 1>the Ten Commandments that we would have a peaceful and

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<v Speaker 1>just society. So some pretty basic questions about that. One

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<v Speaker 1>should I be legally required to honor my mother and father?

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<v Speaker 1>What if my mother and father don't honor their mother

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<v Speaker 1>and father? Should I be bound to not be covetous

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<v Speaker 1>of my friend's perfect children, or their instagrammable life, or

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<v Speaker 1>their neat and tidy house. How would the government even

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<v Speaker 1>know about that anyway? And when it comes to putting

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<v Speaker 1>other gods before theirs, is that something that I should

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<v Speaker 1>be legally kept from doing. I have a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>questions about this. If you feel like I'm being facetious,

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<v Speaker 1>or if you feel like no, it totally makes sense

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<v Speaker 1>to base laws on these ancient moral codes, completely stripped

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<v Speaker 1>of context, then give us a call. Because the show

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<v Speaker 1>is starting now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, wonderful intro. We are here. The music has played.

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<v Speaker 2>I am in the mindset to get the show on

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<v Speaker 2>the road. This is talky than Welcome everyone today is

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<v Speaker 2>January twelfth, twenty twenty five. I am your host, Jimmy Junr.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining me today is the wonderful and brilliant Sophia Spina.

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<v Speaker 2>How the heck are you, Sophia?

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<v Speaker 1>Waking up? I'm waking up. As we were talking before

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<v Speaker 1>the show, I'm still in the you know, almost five

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<v Speaker 1>months old, so maybe not quite as newborn and newborn,

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<v Speaker 1>but we're still figuring out sleeping and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm here. I feel less brilliant than normal, but

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<v Speaker 1>we're getting there.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're in the thick of it, for sure. You

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<v Speaker 2>are in the thick of it, five month old baby.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you can be feeling less brilliant.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we did a show a few weeks ago

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<v Speaker 2>and you are absolutely on fire and that was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of fun. You me, Dan, We had a good time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Did you know that when you're pregnant your brain

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<v Speaker 1>actually shrinks, like physically shrinks.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know that. I knew that. My wife

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<v Speaker 2>might have mentioned that, but she talks a lot about

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<v Speaker 2>pregnancy brain. Uh, and actually how women lose like I

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<v Speaker 2>guess your hormones and uh, they tend you. They tend

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<v Speaker 2>to make women lose certain I guess muscle memory when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to you know, how you think and you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And then it grows back, yes, right, So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a whole it's a whole interesting thing to be

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<v Speaker 1>to be doing this as my brain is actively changing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's amazing though.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm super thrilled to be working with you again, folks.

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<v Speaker 2>This is talking than a product of the Atheist Community

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<v Speaker 2>of Austin. We are a five oh one C three

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<v Speaker 2>nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>secular use excuse me, secular humanism, and the separation of

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<v Speaker 2>religion and government. And we are a live call in show.

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<v Speaker 2>We have open lines right now, so get your call

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<v Speaker 2>at five one two nine four two or from your

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<v Speaker 2>computer at tiny dot cc forward slash call THH. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, today it's the top of the show. So

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to throw this out there for all

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<v Speaker 2>of our listeners. We have a super Chat challenge, and

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<v Speaker 2>I really like what has been going on with the

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<v Speaker 2>Superchat challenges. You know, a few weeks ago Ben and

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<v Speaker 2>Christy did the drawing challenge, and so I'm gonna reignite that. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I just signed up for new oil and

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<v Speaker 2>acrylic painting classes. I'm taking like a three month course

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<v Speaker 2>over the next well couple few months, and so I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready to reinvigorate the artist inside of me. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm going to be drawing for all you folks.

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<v Speaker 2>You give us a super chat five dollars at least,

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<v Speaker 2>and tell us in the superchat what you want me

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<v Speaker 2>to draw. I will incorporate that into the drawing. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to rally very hard. I can't make any

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<v Speaker 2>promises to make it a T shirt, so I want

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<v Speaker 2>everybody to give me their best and I will come

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<v Speaker 2>up with a talk heathen piece of merch unique to today,

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<v Speaker 2>January twelfth, which you can be a part of. Before

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<v Speaker 2>we start doing that, let's get into this week's Question

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<v Speaker 2>of the Week segment and presenting this segment today is

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<v Speaker 2>our wonderful backup host, Kelly Laughlin Kelly oh.

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<v Speaker 4>Way, sir, all right. Last week we asked for you

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<v Speaker 4>to complete the sentence. It wouldn't surprise me if the

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<v Speaker 4>atheists started blank. And here are our top three answers.

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<v Speaker 4>Number three from Shay the Crowcheer, It wouldn't surprise me.

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<v Speaker 4>Brendan Fraser or doing the Sign of the Cross to

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<v Speaker 4>a real saint, Keanu Reeves. Now I'm going to agree

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<v Speaker 4>with the Benden Fraser park. I'm not so sure that

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<v Speaker 4>I agree that Keanu Reeves is a saint. But am

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<v Speaker 4>I missing something there?

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<v Speaker 2>Why is Brendan Fraser America's sweetheart?

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<v Speaker 1>Because he doesn't love Brendan Fraser exactly And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>he's amazing, whether it was George of the Jungle or

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<v Speaker 1>Blast from the Past. Also, I remember watching that as

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<v Speaker 1>a kid and being like, look at that gentleman. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a non toxic rom com.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Sino Man and Sino Man can't forget and Sino

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<v Speaker 2>Man that one.

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<v Speaker 1>But I believe you he was a.

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<v Speaker 2>Cave man that was dug up in some kids, some

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<v Speaker 2>high school kids back yard. It was awesome, So okay, great.

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<v Speaker 2>Didn't he just win an oscar like a year ago.

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<v Speaker 1>For the whale? I think, which maybe I don't as

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<v Speaker 1>wholeheartedly endorse. I know there's some depictions of sadness. People

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<v Speaker 1>are a little you know, iffy ab out in there,

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<v Speaker 1>but he still seems very sweet. Sure, he bought some

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<v Speaker 1>kid off a freeway once, like he just gave him

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<v Speaker 1>all the cash he had, and the kid out a

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<v Speaker 1>box with the chihuahua and bought the Chiuaha. That's cool.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's totally cool. I always get him mixed up

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<v Speaker 4>with uh oh geese.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I can't think of his name. He was in Glory.

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea, but it seems like you're mixing

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<v Speaker 2>everybody up.

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<v Speaker 4>You got her Crawford, Is that right?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know, but let's move on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, because I'm just making myself look stupid, so I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>He thinks about Reeves by the way, I just want

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<v Speaker 2>to say that, all right.

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<v Speaker 4>Number two from X million, no surprise atheists are going

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<v Speaker 4>to petition the government to get Satan in the Pledge

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<v Speaker 4>of Allegiance. Well, that would be awesome. I would love

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<v Speaker 4>to see that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now. I think that's more likely than number three. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like an actual fight could take place like this.

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<v Speaker 2>This is this could be reality. Satan's people petitioning to

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<v Speaker 2>get Satan in there.

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<v Speaker 4>I just think it would be fun, that's all. I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. Obviously, I don't believe in Satan, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think it would be fun to have them inside the Pledge.

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<v Speaker 4>Of allegiance. So and our number one answer from the amazing,

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<v Speaker 4>incredible Chuck Gatos. It wouldn't surprise me if atheists started

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<v Speaker 4>saying Hellelujah when their team scores, so the church police

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<v Speaker 4>will think they're agreeing with the sermon instead of blacking

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<v Speaker 4>football on their phones. Yeah, is perfect. That's great.

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<v Speaker 2>So that reminds me of church as a kid. Like

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<v Speaker 2>when we got home TV went on, football came on right,

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<v Speaker 2>it was like because we're on the East coast, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was like, you got to get home by one o'clock.

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<v Speaker 2>One o'clock is when the game starts, so you could

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<v Speaker 2>the game.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, man, if if if my father had any your

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<v Speaker 2>piece with a with a you know, a radio, he

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<v Speaker 2>definitely would have smuggled it into church, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, definitely definitely my dad would have done the

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<v Speaker 4>same thing. But our prompt for next week is sin

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<v Speaker 4>is to God as what is to what? Sophia, what

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<v Speaker 4>do you.

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<v Speaker 1>Think I would say? Sin is to God as Kuten

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<v Speaker 1>is to my friend him. I don't know, that's all

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm just kind of like it's sort of this

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<v Speaker 1>obsession with it. There's so many things with it, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that are in it, but you can't have it

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<v Speaker 1>and it's bad, and so it's it's sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>fraught relationship really more than like antie. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>repellent but also attractive.

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<v Speaker 4>Jimmy, you got an answer for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do. Sin is to God as child abuse

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<v Speaker 2>is to clergy members. So you know, they they they

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<v Speaker 2>probably act like it's not good, but they just do

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<v Speaker 2>it anyway. If you've ever read the Bible, God is

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<v Speaker 2>the biggest sinner out of all the characters there. So, uh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what I came up with.

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<v Speaker 1>Does you're bringing fire to this? I was just like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, gluten versus fucking child abuse.

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<v Speaker 3>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, sorry, never miss an opportunity to call out the hypocrisy,

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I say.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 4>I hope, I hope we come up with some good answers,

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<v Speaker 4>don't don't forget. Put them in the comments below, not

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<v Speaker 4>in the chat on the side, And next week we

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<v Speaker 4>will read out the top three answers from this week,

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<v Speaker 4>and hopefully one of them will be yours. And I

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<v Speaker 4>want to thank Jimmy and Sophia for letting me come

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<v Speaker 4>on and do this for the show. Thanks for doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>You're amazing and we love you.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and I thank you so much. We love you too.

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<v Speaker 2>So all right, cool well, thank you Kelly for leading

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<v Speaker 2>us through the question of the week. And with that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we have a show to do. What we're

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<v Speaker 2>doing the show anyway, But first before we move forward,

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<v Speaker 2>we got to go to the crew camp. We got

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<v Speaker 2>to acknowledge all the people that make the show possible

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<v Speaker 2>besides Kelly, and so let's bring up our wonderful, wonderful

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<v Speaker 2>crew and some animals. I was gonna call it, we

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<v Speaker 2>got a cat. That's awesome. Look at everybody. Hell yeah, man,

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<v Speaker 2>we had a party going on. Jonathan nice hat man,

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<v Speaker 2>man of style killing it all right, all right, cool well,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to the crew. You know, Sophia, we have

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<v Speaker 2>got a voicemail this week. I want to kick the

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<v Speaker 2>show off with a very odd voicemail that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know where this person is coming from. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how to feel about it, but I'm gonna ask the

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<v Speaker 2>crew to go ahead and run that.

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<v Speaker 1>Ready.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, so I know you're going through a lot, but

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<v Speaker 3>you're a really bad liar and you kind of sucked

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<v Speaker 3>like my mom. But I love my mom and just

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<v Speaker 3>stop paying a stubborn idiot bye.

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<v Speaker 2>What So apparently, you know, this caller is saying, I

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<v Speaker 2>know you're going through a lot, but you're a really

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<v Speaker 2>bad liar. I don't know who he's talking to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to me? Yeah, I don't know. I mean I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I did a promo this week, and I felt like

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<v Speaker 2>I was pretty like I don't know, even keel I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't yelling at the camera this time. But why why

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<v Speaker 2>does his mom suck?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's sort of mean to his mom. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe his mom does suck, like it's possible some parents do.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, that was an interesting moment to just throw

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<v Speaker 1>her under the bus. And also a bad liar is

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<v Speaker 1>does his mom lie to him? Does he feel you

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<v Speaker 1>were lying to him? Or whoever he was speaking to.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot going on there. Like the vibe I

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<v Speaker 1>get is that somebody just like gained the gumption to

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<v Speaker 1>just be like, I'm gonna call and say a thing

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<v Speaker 1>and then immediately lost what they were going for.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I would have

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<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed some context too, because I want to know

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<v Speaker 2>what we're bad liars about. What is it that we

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<v Speaker 2>get accused of a lot of things in like the

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<v Speaker 2>show comments and stuff right, whether it's Facebook or YouTube

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<v Speaker 2>or Instagram TikTok. You know, people are constantly calling us

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<v Speaker 2>or making accusations towards us, like not only that we're lying,

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<v Speaker 2>but like we're mad at God or you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>just want to send you know, the common things. But

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<v Speaker 2>I'd really like to know from some of these people,

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<v Speaker 2>like what is the actual beef? What is the actual beef?

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<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, man, I have to pause right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Super chat from Nero just asked hotly, smokes, did that

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<v Speaker 2>get put in? All right? I'm reading this. Nero asked,

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<v Speaker 2>can we get a drawing of Jesus with donkey features?

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<v Speaker 2>I have to make a note because I can't. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if I could do this right now. Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>with donkey features?

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<v Speaker 3>All right?

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know what that person's going for, ears

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<v Speaker 2>and snout and tail. Okay, cool, thank you, because I

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<v Speaker 2>was hoping we weren't moving to what was it the

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<v Speaker 2>Ezekiel reference where it's so God, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't don't drag Jesus is junk.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't want to drive Jesus is junk? All right? Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>Nero challenge accepted. All right, ears snout tail. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get to that later. Cool.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that they're not taking it easy on you here.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a complex drawing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I feel like I asked, you know, give me

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<v Speaker 2>a thing to draw, and I got ear snout tail.

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean you we'll see, we'll see.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's it's when you say a thing that

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<v Speaker 1>could be a lot of stuff. Oh, we have one

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<v Speaker 1>from Kelly who is trolling us, also a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. I can read that out.

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<v Speaker 2>Also read it, read it. I saw it dry puppy.

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<v Speaker 1>That's also a vampire.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, I'm doing this to myself. Thank you, Kelly.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh So, anyway, I will try and get those going

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<v Speaker 2>in just a little while here. But we've got some

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<v Speaker 2>you know on that note, you know, people saying that

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<v Speaker 2>they like on that voicemail. Back to the voicemail, like hey, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going through a lot. Are a bad lawyer or

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<v Speaker 2>a bad liar? You suck like my mom. We've got

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<v Speaker 2>some comments on some of our some of our videos

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<v Speaker 2>right that go back to the relationships between people in

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<v Speaker 2>the household. So, for example, on our optional content here,

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<v Speaker 2>are screenshots which I don't necessarily have to get to,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to bring these up just because of

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<v Speaker 2>that person's weird, weird voicemail. We're gonna go to number five,

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<v Speaker 2>and Sophia, this will be a good thing for us

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<v Speaker 2>to have a conversation about for a minute, because I

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<v Speaker 2>know that we've talked about this. You know, I was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about let's see, I was talking. I was criticizing

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<v Speaker 2>parents for kicking their kids out of the house, for

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<v Speaker 2>being gay right, and that we don't have to just

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<v Speaker 2>stop it gay right. But that person said there are

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<v Speaker 2>atheists that will disown their children that profess to be Christian.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to push back on that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, nor have I ever heard a single

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<v Speaker 2>thing about an atheist kicking out a child. For me,

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<v Speaker 2>I've never met one. Not saying they don't exist, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is far more, far more common in my

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<v Speaker 2>human experience to see a Christian family turn on people

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<v Speaker 2>who don't subscribe, who no longer subscribe to their beliefs anymore. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's so common, and it's awful. You cannot do that

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<v Speaker 2>to your parents, to your children. I don't know, Sophia,

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead, no.

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<v Speaker 1>First of all, I agree that that is definitely, in

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<v Speaker 1>my experience, something i've seen more. I think that with

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<v Speaker 1>atheists there are so there are not as many of us,

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<v Speaker 1>and so just by virtue of that, like, hey, if

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<v Speaker 1>seventy percent of the population were suddenly atheists, would probably

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<v Speaker 1>start seeing a lot more really bad atheist behavior. Just

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<v Speaker 1>by virtue of the fact that there's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>more people who ascribe to the label, more people will suck.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a proportional suckedness. I suppose that would happen. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I think with that caveat the idea of kicking

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<v Speaker 1>someone out because they're Christian. I think that's the part

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<v Speaker 1>that might be the most different. An atheist's parent could suck,

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<v Speaker 1>and an atheist's parent might kick out a child. I

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<v Speaker 1>would never ever co find that, But kicking them out

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<v Speaker 1>because of a difference in religious belief I think is

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<v Speaker 1>less likely, because so often it's this fear of contamination

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<v Speaker 1>that the somehow non Christian child or the gay child

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<v Speaker 1>is going to somehow contaminate or cause the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the house to sin, or by accepting them your sinning.

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<v Speaker 1>Those ideas don't really work in an atheist context. You

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<v Speaker 1>know they're not going to contaminate you to sin because

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<v Speaker 1>we don't believe in sin. You know, that idea of

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<v Speaker 1>I have to get this person away from me because

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<v Speaker 1>they're bearing something unholy that is simply incoherent from an

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<v Speaker 1>atheist context. So the idea that we would just abandon

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<v Speaker 1>a child or kick them out for the disagreement, I

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<v Speaker 1>think is less likely. Also, even if this were true,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't mean anything about the truths of these two propositions.

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<v Speaker 1>Christianity is not more true or less true because people

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<v Speaker 1>kick their children out of it. It's just that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a shitty thing that people will do and use their

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<v Speaker 1>faith to justify their horrifying parenting. Atheism would not be

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<v Speaker 1>somehow debunked if it turns out that some atheist parents

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<v Speaker 1>are also really shitty people and really shitty parents. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a thing, and it's I think. What we see also, though,

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<v Speaker 1>is that the more religious a state is, the higher

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<v Speaker 1>its youth homelessness rates are. So we see Utah with

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly high youth homelessness rates because if you're queer, it's

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<v Speaker 1>more likely that you are kicked out because there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of very strict, high control religion in that state.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think we actually can kind of look at

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<v Speaker 1>it and be like, it is more likely in this context.

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<v Speaker 1>Also doesn't Really, it's not an argument against atheism or

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<v Speaker 1>for Christianity, even if it were to happen in the

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<v Speaker 1>other direction.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I think it's so counter productive for

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<v Speaker 2>an atheist to kick out their child for exploring religion

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<v Speaker 2>or subscribing to a religion. Actually, I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>largely in an atheist household or among the atheist community,

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<v Speaker 2>we encourage free thought, we encourage research, and we would

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<v Speaker 2>want our children to be reading up on these things, right,

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<v Speaker 2>We would want our children to be looking at the

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<v Speaker 2>things that we disagree with, because we want them to

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<v Speaker 2>find out for themselves. Don't just listen to me. That's

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's how you get a religion anyway, right,

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<v Speaker 2>by not doing the investigation. I mean, that's how that's

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<v Speaker 2>how we've ended up with thousands of years of people

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<v Speaker 2>subscribing to dogmas just because somebody else read that dogma

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<v Speaker 2>for them and didn't give them an opportunity to question it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, and here, you know, it's interesting because the

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<v Speaker 1>number one way to let me think of hout to

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<v Speaker 1>her phrase is the best way to get someone to

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<v Speaker 1>fall for an idea is to never expose them to it, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when I think about the fact that if

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<v Speaker 1>I have never heard a flat earth argument, I might

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<v Speaker 1>be unfamiliar with the arguments that are made, and they

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<v Speaker 1>might sound really reasonable if I have never been exposed

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<v Speaker 1>to them or never heard them before, I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of almost idea inoculation that's possible. So if

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<v Speaker 1>I never expose my child to Christian thinking and someone

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<v Speaker 1>comes along and we're to present like, here's why Christianity

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<v Speaker 1>is true, it can sound really reasonable. So I actively

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<v Speaker 1>want my child to be exposed to many different schools

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<v Speaker 1>of thought, many different religions, partially because if there are

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<v Speaker 1>so many salesmen of these religions out there, someone will

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<v Speaker 1>attempt to expose them to these ideologies. It's like how

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<v Speaker 1>you tell your kids about multi level marketing schemes because

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<v Speaker 1>somebody is going to try to recruit them, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and you kind of want them to be at least

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<v Speaker 1>aware of the facts of how this really works. And

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<v Speaker 1>so yeah, I would actually say that that far be

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<v Speaker 1>it from from trying to keep them from learning about

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<v Speaker 1>these things. I actively believe in exposing children to as

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<v Speaker 1>many different ways of thinking and being as possible. I

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<v Speaker 1>think in Texas, with some of the curriculum that has

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<v Speaker 1>been passed that brings religion into the classroom in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that presents it as though it is true, I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's going to backfire real hard because I think

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<v Speaker 1>that there are going to be some parents who think

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<v Speaker 1>this is great, They're going to send their kindergartener to school,

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<v Speaker 1>and then there's going to be children from non Christian

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<v Speaker 1>homes who are going to say, well, I don't believe that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's going to be really frightening because

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<v Speaker 1>if you are religious and you're trying to keep your

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<v Speaker 1>child believing exactly what you believe, you don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>expose them to that idea.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not a quick process, but the questioning

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<v Speaker 2>of these kinds of beliefs has been taking place for centuries.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, ever since the Catholic Church schismed and Protestantism

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<v Speaker 2>was born. It never slowed down. In fact, it's been

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<v Speaker 2>speeding up right. Protestantism turned into multiple religions, and those

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<v Speaker 2>multiple religions turned into multiple cults, and it keeps spreading

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<v Speaker 2>and now we're at forty five thousand different denominations of Christianity,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, you just can't avoid having to answer

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<v Speaker 2>for the things that you are professing, for the things

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<v Speaker 2>that you subscribe to. And when you can answer for

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<v Speaker 2>those things, you lose the credibility and legitimacy. And the

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<v Speaker 2>funny thing that happens to me is that it happens

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<v Speaker 2>in a very nascent stage among children. Right these same

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<v Speaker 2>children who are challenging each other on the existence of

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Claus are also the ones taking lessons on religion,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, just kind of innocently exchanging ideas and

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<v Speaker 2>forced being forced to face the realities that they live with.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I've got a little Muslim friend and I

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<v Speaker 2>really like them, but you know, people have problems with

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of idea, and so you have to you

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<v Speaker 2>have to investigate it anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, yeah, no, no, that's good. If you're in a

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<v Speaker 1>more act, like a very act of religious home that

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<v Speaker 1>believes you can save people by just having them say

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<v Speaker 1>magic words, you can sort of lead to some children

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<v Speaker 1>traumatizing each other. I do know someone who was a

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<v Speaker 1>friend at the time who when she was seven, I

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<v Speaker 1>closed wouldn't let someone out of a closet at our

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<v Speaker 1>house until they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, I would bet that that kid that

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00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:08.720
<v Speaker 1>was locked in the closet until they accepted Jesus Christ

421
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.240
<v Speaker 1>by this other kid had some serious backlash against religion someday,

422
00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.839
<v Speaker 1>because that's a kind of traumatizing experience. And so it's

423
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.559
<v Speaker 1>almost like the harder it's pushed on little people, the

424
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.680
<v Speaker 1>more horrifying that really is, and the more likely they're

425
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:24.599
<v Speaker 1>going to be to question it or leave it later on,

426
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:26.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, speaking.

427
00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Of parent child relationships when it comes to religion. We

428
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:32.960
<v Speaker 2>actually have a caller on the line who wants to

429
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.559
<v Speaker 2>talk about their relationship with their father, and so we're

430
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.160
<v Speaker 2>going to go to d in Iowa. D you are

431
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.640
<v Speaker 2>on the line with Jimmy and Sophia. What is going

432
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.519
<v Speaker 2>on in the great state of Iowa.

433
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:50.079
<v Speaker 5>It is colder than you know what out here? Hey Jimmy,

434
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:51.640
<v Speaker 5>Hey Sophia, Hey.

435
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Ry So what is up d you? You know, Sophia

436
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.960
<v Speaker 2>and I are here talking about family dynamics and you

437
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 2>chimed in at the perfect time. So what's going on?

438
00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.720
<v Speaker 5>So I did not grow up in a religious household,

439
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:13.200
<v Speaker 5>you know, like fundamentalist type religion. My mom did make

440
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.720
<v Speaker 5>me do things. I go to Sunday School, go to

441
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:22.559
<v Speaker 5>you know, vacation Bible school in the summertime. She she

442
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:28.480
<v Speaker 5>kind of wavered between sometimes going to the Methodist church

443
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.680
<v Speaker 5>and sometimes going to the Baptist Church and sometimes not

444
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.839
<v Speaker 5>going to church. So U and dad was an agnostic,

445
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:43.559
<v Speaker 5>and uh, you know, when when I came out in

446
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 5>the early nineties, I knew that his objection to my

447
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.680
<v Speaker 5>sexuality was not based on religion. So I didn't have

448
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:59.519
<v Speaker 5>to go through that trauma, thank goodness. And I ended

449
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:03.440
<v Speaker 5>up being, you know, much more religious than they did.

450
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:08.880
<v Speaker 5>I took all of those little lessons in Sunday School

451
00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.160
<v Speaker 5>and that to heart. At seven years old, I was

452
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:18.279
<v Speaker 5>trying to convert my playmates, you know, during recess, and

453
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:24.400
<v Speaker 5>very serious about it. And when I got out of

454
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 5>the Air Force, I really threw myself into Bible study.

455
00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:36.480
<v Speaker 5>And I remember my folks ran a boarding house in

456
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:40.480
<v Speaker 5>this small town we had when the railroad was still operating.

457
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.519
<v Speaker 5>The railroad workers would come in and stay overnight. They

458
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:50.279
<v Speaker 5>would rent rooms there and one of the borders there

459
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:55.039
<v Speaker 5>was a good family friend that was going to seminary.

460
00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 5>He wanted to be a Catholic priest, and I asked

461
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:05.160
<v Speaker 5>him one day to pray for my father because at

462
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:09.279
<v Speaker 5>that point I was getting very fundamentalist and I was

463
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:14.799
<v Speaker 5>worried about his soul. And I got in. He went

464
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.200
<v Speaker 5>and told my dad that I had asked for him

465
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.240
<v Speaker 5>to pray for him, and mom and Dad got extremely

466
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:24.920
<v Speaker 5>upset with me. And yeah, it was like kind of

467
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:30.279
<v Speaker 5>a reverse of what so many people you know, go through,

468
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:35.759
<v Speaker 5>getting uh, you know, getting family against them for not

469
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.559
<v Speaker 5>being religious. And this was and it just made me

470
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:45.519
<v Speaker 5>more determined to learn more and become more godly and

471
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:51.200
<v Speaker 5>closer to Jesus and things throughout my life. So the

472
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.920
<v Speaker 5>I consider myself lucky in some ways, and my heart

473
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.640
<v Speaker 5>really goes out to people who are, you know, the

474
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.680
<v Speaker 5>that the religion is used against them so ferociously and

475
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:09.839
<v Speaker 5>so yeah, so that's my story.

476
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I can identify with some parts of that personally,

477
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.519
<v Speaker 1>and that my mother was Church of Christ and my

478
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.640
<v Speaker 1>father was. He wouldn't like the term lapsed Catholic, but

479
00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:23.480
<v Speaker 1>functionally it was very Catholic. If you talked about it,

480
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.079
<v Speaker 1>but didn't tend to go to Mass very often. You'd

481
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:28.960
<v Speaker 1>watch it on TV a lot, but neither of them

482
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.920
<v Speaker 1>really went to church as often, and yet they were

483
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>very approving when we would go to church. So my

484
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:39.720
<v Speaker 1>sister and I kind of almost self radicalized in a way,

485
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 1>and we would consistently go to church because it was

486
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.920
<v Speaker 1>sort of this feeling that that's the right thing to do,

487
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and my parents would pay lip service to that, and

488
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I think did believe it. It's just they didn't realize how

489
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 1>seriously maybe we were taking that. You know, if you

490
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.640
<v Speaker 1>take your kid to Sunday school or send them to

491
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.200
<v Speaker 1>church or vacation Bible school or all the manner of

492
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.960
<v Speaker 1>free Christian childcare, there are there are a lot of those.

493
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.559
<v Speaker 1>I think sometimes it'll feel like, oh, well, that's generally good,

494
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 1>like I grew up going to it, and they won't

495
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.519
<v Speaker 1>realize how we're being told you're going to go to

496
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:14.960
<v Speaker 1>hell if you do not follow these rules and pray

497
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.480
<v Speaker 1>this prayer. And you know, some of the church I

498
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 1>was in get literally baptized. And so we're going to

499
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:23.200
<v Speaker 1>take that very seriously and try to convert people in

500
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.960
<v Speaker 1>our lives because we're young and we love our parents,

501
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:28.519
<v Speaker 1>so don't we want them to be you know, safe

502
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.839
<v Speaker 1>and saved and not go to hell. Don't we want

503
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to see them later on. So it comes from this

504
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.839
<v Speaker 1>very earnest place. And it's interesting to me when folks

505
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.200
<v Speaker 1>maybe religion didn't have that impact on them when they

506
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.559
<v Speaker 1>were growing up and kind of going through the motions

507
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:45.920
<v Speaker 1>of going to Sunday school, but it really can. And

508
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.200
<v Speaker 1>for me it was sort of similar. I it was

509
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.960
<v Speaker 1>almost to some degree my teenage rebellion to be just

510
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.200
<v Speaker 1>so perfectly virtuous. You know, I didn't swear, I didn't drink.

511
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.119
<v Speaker 1>I didn't do any of those things that people almost

512
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:03.119
<v Speaker 1>see as like teenager rebellion because I looked at my

513
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.079
<v Speaker 1>parents and I was like, you're not godly enough. I

514
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.759
<v Speaker 1>can make you feel like shit by being perfect in

515
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:13.119
<v Speaker 1>my Christianity. Now that's a very twisted thought, but that

516
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:15.960
<v Speaker 1>is how I sort of my teenage rebellion was being

517
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:20.640
<v Speaker 1>perfect and was also like religion was used both as

518
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:24.119
<v Speaker 1>this thing that I had was measuring myself against and

519
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:27.279
<v Speaker 1>that I knew there was like power in and performing,

520
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:30.720
<v Speaker 1>if that makes sense. And there was that layer of

521
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I really thought everyone was going to go to Hell,

522
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.119
<v Speaker 1>and I couldn't figure out if my dad was actually

523
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>going to go to hell or not because he was Catholic.

524
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.880
<v Speaker 1>That was always its own question, like does he have

525
00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:42.680
<v Speaker 1>to be Protestant? I know that's its own thing. But yeah,

526
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.319
<v Speaker 1>I think that children take these things seriously and they

527
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.880
<v Speaker 1>love the people around them very much. So I can

528
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.119
<v Speaker 1>see why your parents were sort of offended, like, you know,

529
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.240
<v Speaker 1>what is she doing asking people to pray for me?

530
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, I totally get where you're

531
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>coming from, where you're trying to save them in the

532
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:01.880
<v Speaker 1>way you have been told how.

533
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.319
<v Speaker 5>Right, Yeah, from the people at the church where my

534
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:12.519
<v Speaker 5>mother was sending me. So you know, it was I know,

535
00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 5>I remember having pictures of Jesus in the house and

536
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:20.480
<v Speaker 5>in my bedroom when I was little. I know that

537
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:24.960
<v Speaker 5>Mom put those pictures up there, so it was like

538
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:29.000
<v Speaker 5>he was always there, you know, watching over me. And

539
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:34.200
<v Speaker 5>I got really, you know, I got it was like

540
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 5>central Nebraska and a very tiny town, so it wasn't

541
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:43.839
<v Speaker 5>fundamentalist there. There were really no fundamentalists. I didn't get

542
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:47.680
<v Speaker 5>into that until I moved into a bigger city and

543
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:55.160
<v Speaker 5>found Assemblies of God and the non denominational and that,

544
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.759
<v Speaker 5>you know, that concern for my dad never left me

545
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:05.720
<v Speaker 5>until after he was gone, and I started really backing

546
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:13.240
<v Speaker 5>away from spiritual thinking and beliefs. Excuse me, sorry about that.

547
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:19.559
<v Speaker 2>So did you did you ever come out sexually in church?

548
00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:25.119
<v Speaker 5>Not in church? I was already by the time I

549
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:31.319
<v Speaker 5>came out, I had sworn off organized Christianity. But I

550
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:35.839
<v Speaker 5>did come out to a couple of friends. They had

551
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 5>basically been strong mentors and best friends for me in

552
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.359
<v Speaker 5>the church during the time when I was completely submerged

553
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:52.079
<v Speaker 5>in the Assembly of God. I lived with Christians, I

554
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:57.519
<v Speaker 5>worked with Christians, I worshiped with Christians. I had, you know,

555
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 5>the leisure time with christ to everything. So I did

556
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.079
<v Speaker 5>because they would eventually they would every once in a

557
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.240
<v Speaker 5>while get in touch with me after I moved away

558
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.240
<v Speaker 5>and got married to my best friend and had turned

559
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 5>to paganism, and they would call me and just to

560
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 5>get in touch see how I was doing. And they would,

561
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.440
<v Speaker 5>you know, they would always tell me, you, oh, you've

562
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:28.200
<v Speaker 5>got to come back to the church. You got to

563
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 5>start reading your Bible again, you got to do this,

564
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.839
<v Speaker 5>do that. I had never said anything to them, really

565
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:39.559
<v Speaker 5>until I just got tired of the calls and and that,

566
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.039
<v Speaker 5>and I decided it was time to be honest with them.

567
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.519
<v Speaker 5>And they would either accept it or not, and I

568
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:52.680
<v Speaker 5>sent them along email explaining, Hey, you remember Julie, I

569
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:58.759
<v Speaker 5>married her, I am the pagan, I love my life,

570
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 5>I'm doing great. I just felt that you needed to know.

571
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.599
<v Speaker 5>And the only response was we'll pray for you, and

572
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:09.079
<v Speaker 5>I never heard from them again.

573
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, you know, it really sounded to me like

574
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:16.559
<v Speaker 2>you were starting to tell us that you actually got

575
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:20.400
<v Speaker 2>support from some of your Christian friends. So I'm disappointed

576
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.640
<v Speaker 2>to hear that in the end they gave you the

577
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:25.319
<v Speaker 2>old i'll pray for you thing. You know, A big,

578
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>a big criticism that many atheists have about people who

579
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.319
<v Speaker 2>claim to be so morally superior religious people, you know,

580
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.240
<v Speaker 2>let's let's put it bluntly, is that they're so quick

581
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.759
<v Speaker 2>to turn their back on others. And you know, unfortunately,

582
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.960
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like you had to go through that experience,

583
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:44.680
<v Speaker 2>and I'm so sorry that you did. But you were

584
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.400
<v Speaker 2>able to take your best friend with you and and

585
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.079
<v Speaker 2>marry her, so I think that's great. But yeah, it's

586
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 2>always baffled me how you can be so pious and

587
00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:00.079
<v Speaker 2>profess to be so morally superior because you have a

588
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.680
<v Speaker 2>ligned yourself with the most powerful and the most loving God,

589
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 2>the creator of the universe. And also you can turn

590
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.599
<v Speaker 2>your back on your own children and on your neighbors,

591
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:16.359
<v Speaker 2>which directly conflicts with the point of view of your savior,

592
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:20.559
<v Speaker 2>who tells you to love your neighbors. You can hate

593
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.400
<v Speaker 2>people that don't look like you or think like you,

594
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 2>you can hate immigrants, and you can spread hate in general.

595
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:32.519
<v Speaker 2>It is such such a hypocritical platform to take, and

596
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm just so sorry that you had to

597
00:32:34.359 --> 00:32:37.400
<v Speaker 2>deal with that, you know, if you don't mind, I'm

598
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:41.480
<v Speaker 2>really intrigued by your story. You know, what is what

599
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.799
<v Speaker 2>is Julie up to these days? How are you guys

600
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:47.000
<v Speaker 2>doing And how long has it been since you guys

601
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.559
<v Speaker 2>were able to kind of escape the clutches of your

602
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Christianity and and marry get married.

603
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 5>Well, that is another whole story in itself, Jimmy, Okay.

604
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, don't feel I don't feel like you have to

605
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.839
<v Speaker 2>share something you don't want to. But I love a

606
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.400
<v Speaker 2>feel good story, and I think even just the one

607
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 2>that you've told us shows that there's some hope out

608
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.119
<v Speaker 2>there for people that are struggling with their true identity

609
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 2>and what they're being told they have to be, which is,

610
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, such a travesty, because nobody should have to

611
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.200
<v Speaker 2>tell us what we are. They should help us figure

612
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:28.279
<v Speaker 2>out who we are.

613
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:30.759
<v Speaker 1>I haven't try to put it away.

614
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah go ahead, Oh no, you go ahead.

615
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:35.519
<v Speaker 1>I'll remember my point.

616
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.039
<v Speaker 5>Well, what I was going to say is is try

617
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 5>to put away the fear. You know, people out there.

618
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.039
<v Speaker 5>You are so much stronger than.

619
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Even you know right now.

620
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:54.319
<v Speaker 5>And yeah it's hard, and you might have your heart broken,

621
00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:01.000
<v Speaker 5>but the feeling of being free is so worth it.

622
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:03.400
<v Speaker 1>I love that. I feel like I want that on

623
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 1>like a button or T shirt or something, or just

624
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:11.360
<v Speaker 1>a daily affirmation. Absolutely, that's wonderful. I you know, thinking

625
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.199
<v Speaker 1>about the idea of like telling someone you know who

626
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.039
<v Speaker 1>who you are, who you're supposed to be. You know,

627
00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I feel like parenting is maybe a big theme today,

628
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.280
<v Speaker 1>and at least, you know, for me, I started off

629
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.679
<v Speaker 1>being like, I'm tired because I'm parenting a small person.

630
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:27.480
<v Speaker 1>But I remember being around I was like a teenager

631
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:32.159
<v Speaker 1>talking to other teenagers about I was still very much

632
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:35.119
<v Speaker 1>a Christian at this point. It was just some idea

633
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.719
<v Speaker 1>that a more conservative contingent I was around at the

634
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:40.920
<v Speaker 1>time didn't necessarily agree with. And one of the adults

635
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.239
<v Speaker 1>who was kind of around this group because you're always

636
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>monitored when you're a Christian youth. It was just turned

637
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to the other parents and said, don't worry, you can

638
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.199
<v Speaker 1>reprogram them later. And there was so many different emotions

639
00:34:54.199 --> 00:34:57.199
<v Speaker 1>in there for me, one being that it was clear

640
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.280
<v Speaker 1>they thought I was somehow being bad or contamina eating

641
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.960
<v Speaker 1>people with my ideas or with whatever I was saying,

642
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.599
<v Speaker 1>and no one was going to it wasn't bad enough

643
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.599
<v Speaker 1>they were going to necessarily say that I was wrong,

644
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.079
<v Speaker 1>But apparently it was bad enough that they didn't want

645
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.559
<v Speaker 1>their children acting like me. And that was how I

646
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 1>found out. Was sort of just someone saying, oh, don't worry,

647
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 1>like you can just exert your control over your own

648
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:27.400
<v Speaker 1>children later, and then the inherent troubling implication they think

649
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:32.039
<v Speaker 1>children can and should be programmed, and that exposing them

650
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:34.800
<v Speaker 1>to ideas is dangerous and you need to take them

651
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.400
<v Speaker 1>back home and rewire them so they can do all

652
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:41.559
<v Speaker 1>of the right things. Again. I thought that was really disturbing,

653
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 1>even at the time and I was still a Christian.

654
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.559
<v Speaker 1>And also it was really hurtful because I was like,

655
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.639
<v Speaker 1>these many of these people are the ones who supposedly

656
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.199
<v Speaker 1>love me. I was part of their church, and yet

657
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm still being thrown out there is like it's just

658
00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:00.440
<v Speaker 1>too different, it's just too dangerous, it's somehow too wrong. Yeah,

659
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:02.000
<v Speaker 1>and you mentioned that, you know, you might get your

660
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.360
<v Speaker 1>heart broken. There's a thousand little ways you get your

661
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 1>heart broken when you're part of the church by being

662
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 1>told you're not good enough.

663
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:14.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you so much for being willing to call. Yeah,

664
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.199
<v Speaker 2>and uh and share such an intimate part of your life.

665
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:20.079
<v Speaker 2>Did you have something else you wanted to say?

666
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:24.320
<v Speaker 5>No, that's really all. I'm glad that I got to

667
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.400
<v Speaker 5>talk to you guys. Thanks so much for taking what call.

668
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:29.920
<v Speaker 5>And you guys have a great risk to you Sunday.

669
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:30.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

670
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I always love when you call. Thank you so much.

671
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.079
<v Speaker 2>You know. That was Uh, that was such a you know,

672
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:39.079
<v Speaker 2>the thing that I really like about about these call

673
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.400
<v Speaker 2>was that, you know, she didn't just stop short of

674
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of giving us our experience, but she or her experience. Uh.

675
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.280
<v Speaker 2>But I had a message they did? I say, she,

676
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. I did so well in saying they in

677
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.239
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, and then I said, she forgive me d

678
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:57.599
<v Speaker 2>but we corrected.

679
00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

680
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they you know, had a message for people, which

681
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:04.280
<v Speaker 2>I think is really important, you know, take take that

682
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.320
<v Speaker 2>experience to kind of turn it into something that you

683
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:10.239
<v Speaker 2>can help make other people's lives better. And so I

684
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>thought that was really important.

685
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:15.920
<v Speaker 1>Personally, really appreciate older atheists as well. I think that

686
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I sort of mentioned this before, you

687
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:21.440
<v Speaker 1>all can't see Kelly, but we do because he's a

688
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.559
<v Speaker 1>backup post, and he was just doing his like we well,

689
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.400
<v Speaker 1>winning macho victory arms or something is adorable.

690
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

691
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 1>I just I think that in the church, I always

692
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:35.239
<v Speaker 1>had this like hope and desire for Sorry, I was

693
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.719
<v Speaker 1>just invaded by a dog and a toddler anyway, So

694
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.559
<v Speaker 1>if you hear stuff in the background, that's them. This

695
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 1>desire that I would have mentorship in love by these

696
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 1>older people in the church. And it had me constantly

697
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.280
<v Speaker 1>seeking approval and like sort of questing for it. Man,

698
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.159
<v Speaker 1>so much approval seeking, you know, in the church. And

699
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a very common experience. So to have

700
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:59.159
<v Speaker 1>people who are atheist elders, I suppose that I feel

701
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 1>like of appreciate me for who I am or what

702
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 1>I already am, and I don't have to be different

703
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.559
<v Speaker 1>for them to care about me. That is a sort

704
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.920
<v Speaker 1>of healing experience for me, and so I hope that

705
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.039
<v Speaker 1>it's productive and helpful for you know, d you to

706
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.199
<v Speaker 1>speak to us, and that they enjoy it too. But

707
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I get a lot from that as well.

708
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:24.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, I witnessed this a lot in family situations particularly.

709
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:27.440
<v Speaker 2>I have family members that never, they don't really get

710
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.039
<v Speaker 2>together a whole lot, but when they do, I see

711
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.280
<v Speaker 2>family members that are never outwardly Christian or outwardly religious

712
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.920
<v Speaker 2>all starting to be religious around each other. It's like

713
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 2>this group think tribalist type of identity that they're sharing

714
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.400
<v Speaker 2>with each other to kind of create this commonality and

715
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:52.119
<v Speaker 2>to uphold this bond, which I'm sure plays into why

716
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.000
<v Speaker 2>religion is so effective, that sense of community. But you know,

717
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.239
<v Speaker 2>people in my family who were raised Catholic, who don't

718
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>even go to church, are all all of a sudden

719
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.320
<v Speaker 2>around other Catholic family members and it's, oh, you know,

720
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:09.199
<v Speaker 2>they're they're they're joking and like saying things before dinner,

721
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, you don't ever do this ever, never, right,

722
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.320
<v Speaker 2>you haven't been to church in years, but anyway, uh So, yeah,

723
00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 2>that that approval seeking is really it's really profound, and

724
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.599
<v Speaker 2>it's it's a way that the church thrives, you know,

725
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.440
<v Speaker 2>it guilts you into being an outsider, and so you're

726
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:30.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of born with that right and raised with that.

727
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.400
<v Speaker 1>I also feel like, at least amongst the religious folks

728
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:35.519
<v Speaker 1>that I was around, there was sort of this there's

729
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:39.360
<v Speaker 1>pressure to live up. You're seeking approval, but you're also

730
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.360
<v Speaker 1>scared to directly ask anyone a question. So I'll know, like,

731
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 1>you haven't been a jurdge in years, but no one's

732
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:46.840
<v Speaker 1>going to say, hey, when's the last time you went

733
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 1>to church, or do you actually believe in Noah's flood

734
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:52.159
<v Speaker 1>literally happening, Like, no one's going to really have those

735
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:56.119
<v Speaker 1>conversations because they're scared of that conversation too. So it's

736
00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:00.039
<v Speaker 1>entirely performative. There's no substance to it. It's just just

737
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:03.400
<v Speaker 1>about like, hey, I'm going to show you I know

738
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:05.360
<v Speaker 1>all the moves, and so you will think that I

739
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.159
<v Speaker 1>have all the thoughts too, like all the beliefs as well.

740
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. And you know

741
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of if you and so I study ancient

742
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:18.199
<v Speaker 2>religions kind of on my own. I'm not an expert,

743
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:22.000
<v Speaker 2>but if you look at the most ancient religions, it's

744
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.639
<v Speaker 2>all about ritual. It's all about ritual. The thing that

745
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.840
<v Speaker 2>makes the God being worshiped almost come to life is

746
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the food preparation, the singing, right, the dancing, the brewing

747
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:37.559
<v Speaker 2>of beer.

748
00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:37.719
<v Speaker 3>The.

749
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:44.159
<v Speaker 2>Acts that that bring this god into fruition. And it's

750
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not the God that's ever really coming into fruition,

751
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:51.840
<v Speaker 2>it's the people doing the things that make it seem real, right,

752
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.239
<v Speaker 2>they buy into it. And again it's that community factor.

753
00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:58.519
<v Speaker 2>And I always found that so fascinating. People always ask,

754
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:02.199
<v Speaker 2>or not always ask, but scholars on the subject will say, well,

755
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the Near East religions have a whole lot in common

756
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.599
<v Speaker 2>as far as X, Y and Z, And it's like funny,

757
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:11.079
<v Speaker 2>those societies were all in contact with each other, the

758
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:15.400
<v Speaker 2>people with the same religious aspects, they all have the

759
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.639
<v Speaker 2>same trade routes, right, they all exchange the same ideas.

760
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:23.159
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's what we see largely. It's what

761
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:27.199
<v Speaker 2>we see largely. So yeah, I really feel like and

762
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 2>to your points off you, nobody's going to talk about that.

763
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Nobody wants to peel that onion back and figure out

764
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.480
<v Speaker 2>how did we get here? Right, They just want to

765
00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:38.679
<v Speaker 2>reemphasize the fact that this is where we are, and

766
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:41.760
<v Speaker 2>this is who we are, and shame on you if

767
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.639
<v Speaker 2>you don't subscribe. And that D's point is where she's

768
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:48.639
<v Speaker 2>coming from. And I think to the criticism, criticisms that

769
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:52.039
<v Speaker 2>we have had about religious parents and overly religious families,

770
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:56.480
<v Speaker 2>critical families, that is the groundwork behind it.

771
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:59.320
<v Speaker 1>We've invented this cultural taboo. We're not supposed to talk

772
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:03.239
<v Speaker 1>about religion, politics, and people's income, right and with all

773
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:07.239
<v Speaker 1>of those, uh, with every taboo there there are is

774
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:09.519
<v Speaker 1>going to sound almost paranoid. There are I think power

775
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:12.559
<v Speaker 1>structures that are kept in place by us not asking

776
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 1>whoo there's microphone, by us not asking each other about it,

777
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.920
<v Speaker 1>by us not exploring it with each other. We're trying

778
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to deepen our understanding and our knowledge. We're not supposed

779
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.719
<v Speaker 1>to ask about religion because if we actually had critical

780
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:29.159
<v Speaker 1>conversations more regularly, then I doubt as many people would

781
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.840
<v Speaker 1>believe what they do. You know, we're not supposed to

782
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:35.440
<v Speaker 1>talk about politics because you know, it might be contentious

783
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.719
<v Speaker 1>and we just have to remain pleasant at all costs,

784
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and so it's considered impolite, when in reality, that's the

785
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:43.119
<v Speaker 1>only way we're going to really solve anything. We're not

786
00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:46.199
<v Speaker 1>supposed to talk about income because you know, we shouldn't

787
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.320
<v Speaker 1>be asking for more if we find out that our

788
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:50.719
<v Speaker 1>friend is getting paid more for the same thing, you know,

789
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:54.400
<v Speaker 1>the power. It just feels like we're reinforcing power structure,

790
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:59.079
<v Speaker 1>power structures through politeness, which is which is troubling. And

791
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.880
<v Speaker 1>I think that's maybe a huge part of people's problem

792
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.880
<v Speaker 1>with atheists in general, is that if you are an atheist,

793
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.000
<v Speaker 1>you said you are an atheist, You're out there talking

794
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:09.559
<v Speaker 1>about this, and you are exposing the fact that not

795
00:43:09.639 --> 00:43:12.360
<v Speaker 1>everyone believes this, not every good person believes this, not

796
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:16.480
<v Speaker 1>every smart person believes this. And if you're a good, smart, moral,

797
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:21.119
<v Speaker 1>or virtuous person and you're an atheist, it inherently questions

798
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 1>quite a bit that I think would not benefit the

799
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.599
<v Speaker 1>church and would not benefit those who seek to control

800
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:30.440
<v Speaker 1>others through spirituality. So it's you know, the jokes about

801
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.519
<v Speaker 1>like how do you know someone's an atheists, Like they'll

802
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:35.840
<v Speaker 1>tell you ha ha ha. It's like, yeah, because I'm

803
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:38.440
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about the fact that you are trying

804
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.800
<v Speaker 1>to manipulate people by believing in an powerful being that

805
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.320
<v Speaker 1>somehow you alone can interpret, Yeah, and ahead of tell

806
00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:44.559
<v Speaker 1>you that.

807
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Hence this idea that that's perpetrated. I don't know if

808
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:53.039
<v Speaker 2>that's the right word. Heads this idea that has taken

809
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:57.440
<v Speaker 2>hold that atheists are evil, that atheists are bad. Right,

810
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:00.440
<v Speaker 2>if you get your kids to think that early enough,

811
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:03.679
<v Speaker 2>they'll never engage with you, and they will never learn

812
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:06.760
<v Speaker 2>the things that you learn right or or take the

813
00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:11.800
<v Speaker 2>take the steps that you have taken to become informed

814
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.719
<v Speaker 2>and become knowledgeable. And so, uh yeah, I think that

815
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:18.199
<v Speaker 2>it's it's kind of a cheap shot to just say, well,

816
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the people that are not like us, they're evil, they're bad,

817
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 2>they're sinners. Well, you know, engage with somebody. Give us

818
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 2>a call, right and see if we're actually as bad

819
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:29.199
<v Speaker 2>as you think we are. And by the way, folks,

820
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.719
<v Speaker 2>we do have open lines our phone number five one

821
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:34.719
<v Speaker 2>two nine nine nine two four to two. Please give

822
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:37.639
<v Speaker 2>us a call, get your call in. Don't forget about

823
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:41.119
<v Speaker 2>the superchat challenge today, because I actually have a really

824
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:43.960
<v Speaker 2>good picture going. I'm actually pretty proud of it. But

825
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:46.800
<v Speaker 2>so what we're doing is if we get ten super

826
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:50.320
<v Speaker 2>chats of five dollars each, we will draw the things

827
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that you tell us to draw in that superchat, and

828
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:55.400
<v Speaker 2>we'll read your superchat. So so far, we've got five

829
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:58.199
<v Speaker 2>out of ten superchats, but some of those superchats were

830
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:01.119
<v Speaker 2>more than five dollars, so we've actually got the equivalent

831
00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:03.280
<v Speaker 2>of like nine five dollars super chats.

832
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 1>So, uh, yeah, we've got what do I didn't even

833
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:07.639
<v Speaker 1>realize that.

834
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we have a few more. I'm gonna read

835
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 2>right now. So right now, it looks like I have

836
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:17.199
<v Speaker 2>a drawing going of a donkey Jesus and a vampire

837
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>puppy and Miranda Rensburger. Remember for one year we love

838
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:25.639
<v Speaker 2>Miranda has said, make Donkey Jesus fight the vampire puppy. Hey,

839
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I got you, I got you, Miranda. We're gonna we're

840
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna have a fight between donkey Jesus. Excuse me, Yeah,

841
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Donkey Jesus and vampire puppy. Some kind of Vicky, a

842
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.679
<v Speaker 2>good friend of ours, sends five dollars, says have the

843
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:42.400
<v Speaker 2>vampire puppy expressing a sense of angst. The puppy is anxious.

844
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you that. I can tell you that, Uh,

845
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the puppy is sweating. The puppy is fighting, and the

846
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.159
<v Speaker 2>puppy is sweating. And I've got a great picture here

847
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:51.639
<v Speaker 2>that I can't wait to show people if we get

848
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.599
<v Speaker 2>the super chats. Finally, Philip Mitchell member for one year,

849
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:57.480
<v Speaker 2>sends us twenty dollars, Thank you so much. Philip, Donkey,

850
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Jesus and Vampire Puppy are super Scian or sayings they

851
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:03.840
<v Speaker 2>are doing the fusion power. I think that's what like

852
00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:05.960
<v Speaker 2>a dragon ball Z reference or something.

853
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'm just like, I'm not a dragon

854
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:12.079
<v Speaker 1>ball Z expert, although I suppose in this moment it's

855
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:14.840
<v Speaker 1>when they're like doing their big power up to like,

856
00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:16.679
<v Speaker 1>I don't.

857
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Know how to incorporate that, but I'm gonna look it up.

858
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:21.840
<v Speaker 2>For now, I've got a fight.

859
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Th conclusion lines.

860
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, Oh I can do that. I can do that.

861
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.840
<v Speaker 2>That'll be good. So yeah, folks, I appreciate you all

862
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:33.159
<v Speaker 2>participating in our super chat challenge. You know, we've got,

863
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:35.760
<v Speaker 2>like I said, if this goes well, I'm going to

864
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:37.480
<v Speaker 2>try and get everybody to make a T shirt out

865
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:39.840
<v Speaker 2>of it. I may even redraw it so that's a

866
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:42.039
<v Speaker 2>little bit neater, but I think you'll all be happy

867
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.000
<v Speaker 2>with the product I've got so far. And speaking of merch,

868
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:48.639
<v Speaker 2>get your talk Heathen Merch at tiny dot c c

869
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:53.760
<v Speaker 2>forward slash Merch ACA, and man, you know, actually that

870
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:57.280
<v Speaker 2>white sweatshirt looks pretty dope. I think I need to

871
00:46:57.320 --> 00:46:59.079
<v Speaker 2>get one of those. I've got a T shirt, I've

872
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>got a couple other things, a mug, but I need

873
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.880
<v Speaker 2>to get myself a white T shirt that is that

874
00:47:03.960 --> 00:47:07.159
<v Speaker 2>is fresh, to use an old term from the nineties

875
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.400
<v Speaker 2>for which I come And so yeah, while you're getting

876
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:13.039
<v Speaker 2>your merch, you're going to be getting that at the

877
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:16.639
<v Speaker 2>ACA website. And we do have a website where we

878
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:19.559
<v Speaker 2>want you to know what is going on, be informed

879
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:23.119
<v Speaker 2>of what's happening in your community. Head to www dot

880
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Atheist Hyphencommunity dot org and you can learn about our organization,

881
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.559
<v Speaker 2>it's policies and how you can get involved and tell

882
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.440
<v Speaker 2>us what you like about our show. As well. You

883
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:37.000
<v Speaker 2>can email us at TV at Atheist Typhencommunity dot org

884
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:40.239
<v Speaker 2>and let us know your feedback on our show. Or

885
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:43.159
<v Speaker 2>you can leave a voicemail and just like the person

886
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:45.760
<v Speaker 2>that left up a voice left us a voicemail bashing

887
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:50.159
<v Speaker 2>his mom, why, I don't know, you should probably put

888
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that out with mom. Don't do that. But you can

889
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.320
<v Speaker 2>leave us a voicemail as well. Maybe we'll even feature

890
00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 2>you on one of our shows with that, Sophia, I'm

891
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:01.519
<v Speaker 2>going to jump to another call.

892
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Sounds weird.

893
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, actually the calls coming up, the calls coming up

894
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.719
<v Speaker 2>looks like he's in the screening room. I don't know, crew,

895
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Am I good to take this call? I'm not sure

896
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:11.880
<v Speaker 2>if well, no.

897
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we could do a quick I feel like there

898
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:16.239
<v Speaker 1>are some of the comments people have had, some of

899
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the screenshots that are specifically about you know, we've been

900
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.920
<v Speaker 1>talking a lot about family, talking a lot about like parenting.

901
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to hit some of those? Because we're

902
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:27.440
<v Speaker 1>both parents, and so I'm curious you want to do

903
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:28.840
<v Speaker 1>you guys.

904
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Do you have the Why don't you tell the crew

905
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:34.519
<v Speaker 2>which number you want? I did want online already. We

906
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:36.360
<v Speaker 2>can go jump towards one of yours.

907
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's do number nine. Sweet oh that's when I'm

908
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:43.880
<v Speaker 1>smoking the bear. I love it. So the comment says,

909
00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.039
<v Speaker 1>I support spanking children as a form of discipline, and frankly,

910
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:50.840
<v Speaker 1>it has nothing to do with any religion. So I

911
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.559
<v Speaker 1>actually I'm gonna do something a little unorthodox and say,

912
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 1>in tandem with that, could we also put up number

913
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 1>twelve real quick because it addresses the same question, and

914
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.320
<v Speaker 1>so we can kind of compare these same day. Apparently

915
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.239
<v Speaker 1>people were really upset by me talking about this, but

916
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.719
<v Speaker 1>they said spare the rod, spoil the child allegory, so,

917
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:14.960
<v Speaker 1>which is just they're just like, yes, there's that, so

918
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:18.679
<v Speaker 1>let's I think it's really interesting that one comment says

919
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 1>it has nothing to do with the religion, and the

920
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.880
<v Speaker 1>other one pulls up Bible verse to support the spanking

921
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.760
<v Speaker 1>of children, or that does support the spanking of children,

922
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 1>or is often used to do so. So that's an

923
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:31.159
<v Speaker 1>interesting contrast to me because it almost feels like the

924
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.119
<v Speaker 1>comments are arguing with each other, like you know, from

925
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the same standpoint that they don't necessarily like that I'm

926
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:40.800
<v Speaker 1>saying it encourages the hitting of children, but they're sort

927
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.960
<v Speaker 1>of disproving each other, which I find kind of interesting.

928
00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:46.559
<v Speaker 1>The other thing I would say is that if we

929
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:51.039
<v Speaker 1>look at the current who advocates for spanking, who advocates

930
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:55.280
<v Speaker 1>for harsh discipline, actually, in our culture, it does tend

931
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:57.559
<v Speaker 1>to be people who are more religious, particularly in the

932
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:01.320
<v Speaker 1>United States, who are Christians. Are you familiar with the Pearls, Jimmy.

933
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:03.039
<v Speaker 2>The Pearls, Yes, I don't think so.

934
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:09.159
<v Speaker 1>Very sick and twisted Christian fundamentalist child rearing expert couple

935
00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:12.639
<v Speaker 1>and they talk quite a bit about even the specific

936
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.079
<v Speaker 1>rods you can choose. They are part of the group

937
00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:17.239
<v Speaker 1>that will get a big blue stick from the craft

938
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:18.719
<v Speaker 1>store so you can hit your kid with it and

939
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:20.840
<v Speaker 1>it won't leave marks, so you know you won't be

940
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.280
<v Speaker 1>called CPS, won't be called on you if you do that,

941
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.719
<v Speaker 1>because you need to break their will. There are big

942
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:28.480
<v Speaker 1>advocates of blanket training. Do you know what blanket training is.

943
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy, Uh, not quite nice from your day.

944
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:34.480
<v Speaker 1>By telling you about all this stuff. So blanket training

945
00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:36.360
<v Speaker 1>is when you take a one year old, So it

946
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.679
<v Speaker 1>usually starts about one year old, so before children can

947
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:42.880
<v Speaker 1>really understand cause and effect in a discipline way, and

948
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:45.639
<v Speaker 1>you put them on a blanket and then you have

949
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:47.800
<v Speaker 1>toys and other things to lure them off the blanket,

950
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:50.400
<v Speaker 1>but you tell them not to leave the blanket and

951
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:54.360
<v Speaker 1>you hit them if they do. And so what you're

952
00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:58.880
<v Speaker 1>doing is teaching them to obey you beyond their own desires.

953
00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:01.159
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter what you It doesn't matter the fact

954
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:04.519
<v Speaker 1>that I'm actively trying to lure you out with toys

955
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.719
<v Speaker 1>that I know you like, I'm going to hit you

956
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.559
<v Speaker 1>if you go for them. All these things teach is

957
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.599
<v Speaker 1>that your parent is not safe. Is that this is

958
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:13.880
<v Speaker 1>a person who's going to try to trick you into

959
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:17.800
<v Speaker 1>disobedience and then punish you for that same disobedience. Does

960
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:19.800
<v Speaker 1>that sound like someone we know, perhaps someone from an

961
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:24.119
<v Speaker 1>ancient book that some people worship. It's really disgusting. And

962
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.719
<v Speaker 1>so when I'm thinking about the people who are advocates

963
00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:30.519
<v Speaker 1>for this kind of parenting, they're pretty universally religious. I

964
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.000
<v Speaker 1>may not be entirely correct, write in let me know,

965
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 1>are there atheist parenting experts who advocate for this kind

966
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.760
<v Speaker 1>of abuse that teaches a child not to trust themselves

967
00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:42.920
<v Speaker 1>and to assume that their parents are always looking out

968
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to find them doing something wrong. Because that's really what

969
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.280
<v Speaker 1>this is. It's because they think they're going to somehow

970
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:50.679
<v Speaker 1>make an ungodly child if they let that child have

971
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:53.119
<v Speaker 1>an opinion or an idea, or pursue things they love

972
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 1>on their own, and maybe by their rules they will be.

973
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:58.599
<v Speaker 1>But what you do end up getting in this instance

974
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.760
<v Speaker 1>is a child who is yeah and yeah, they talk

975
00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:04.199
<v Speaker 1>about breaking their will, they're breaking their spirit. You know,

976
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.920
<v Speaker 1>it's disgusting, but that is soonamental is parenting.

977
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Now, this idea that it has nothing to do with

978
00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:16.119
<v Speaker 2>any religion is just so false, and it's actually a

979
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.840
<v Speaker 2>fundamental part of religions, especially if you look in the

980
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.079
<v Speaker 2>Bible and it tells you how to discipline your children

981
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.920
<v Speaker 2>or that you can take really harsh practices against them.

982
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:30.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, where do people think that humanity, that our

983
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.679
<v Speaker 2>societies that exist today get their information. It's over hundreds,

984
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:42.000
<v Speaker 2>maybe thousands of years of repetition, repetition from practices that

985
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:44.920
<v Speaker 2>nobody ever questioned. It's just what you did. I mean,

986
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:48.639
<v Speaker 2>does anybody ever ask themselves? Why is it then that

987
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.440
<v Speaker 2>when we meet with family for holidays we have a

988
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.679
<v Speaker 2>big meal? Why? Why why do we do that? What if?

989
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:57.039
<v Speaker 2>It is a link all the way back to the

990
00:52:57.079 --> 00:53:00.559
<v Speaker 2>most ancient religions and where everybody was taking the time

991
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to prepare food. The communities were getting together to prepare

992
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.519
<v Speaker 2>food to attract the gods to their temples or out

993
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:10.679
<v Speaker 2>of their temples, right, I mean, food was such a

994
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:17.039
<v Speaker 2>big part of religious practice, and religion was the organizing

995
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 2>factor of society. That fast forward many many generations and

996
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:26.039
<v Speaker 2>it's just now how we operate and disciplining children is

997
00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:30.000
<v Speaker 2>no different. You know, religions that treat you to be

998
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:34.119
<v Speaker 2>harsh and teach respect and hey, in line with the

999
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Ten Commandments and the intro that you gave Sophia, honor

1000
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:41.000
<v Speaker 2>thy mother and father. That's exactly what we're seeing, right,

1001
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:45.000
<v Speaker 2>And it doesn't leave any room for questioning whether or

1002
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:48.800
<v Speaker 2>not you should honor your parents if they're horrible people, right,

1003
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:52.079
<v Speaker 2>and there are many horrible parents, just like you've explained,

1004
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.559
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of this behavior is rooted in religion,

1005
00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and that's why it's so important to dive into where

1006
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the stuff comes from and question how we behave and

1007
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:06.159
<v Speaker 2>why and what we believe and why and get to

1008
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:08.360
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of it so we can make positive changes.

1009
00:54:08.840 --> 00:54:12.280
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, about children's rights. So I could go on

1010
00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:12.880
<v Speaker 1>all days.

1011
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know you could. I know you could.

1012
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:19.519
<v Speaker 2>I think we all could. I know that our our,

1013
00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:23.679
<v Speaker 2>our lovely, our wonderful beloved backup post, Kelly is cringing

1014
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:27.280
<v Speaker 2>behind the scenes right now because he's got such uh

1015
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:30.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, just such a He's had a tough story

1016
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:32.679
<v Speaker 2>of his own, which maybe we could talk about in

1017
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:35.719
<v Speaker 2>the in the after show. Uh, considering this show is

1018
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:38.960
<v Speaker 2>so has so much to do with family, family values,

1019
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:41.159
<v Speaker 2>if you will today, but without further ado, I want

1020
00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:43.840
<v Speaker 2>to bring up our next caller. Okay, we have Omar

1021
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:48.239
<v Speaker 2>calling from Texas. Omar, the subject says, atheist views on

1022
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 2>trans and lbt plus issues. Okay, I mean, I don't

1023
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.280
<v Speaker 2>know if there's a such thing as an atheist view

1024
00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:59.280
<v Speaker 2>on lgbt Q plus. I think that, you know, atheists

1025
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.400
<v Speaker 2>are just people that don't accept the God beliefs that

1026
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:05.280
<v Speaker 2>they're presented with. Thus far, a lot of atheists, in

1027
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:08.920
<v Speaker 2>my experience, are free thinkers. They value human rights and

1028
00:55:08.960 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 2>therefore supportive of the lgbt Q plus community. On that note, though, Omar,

1029
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:16.599
<v Speaker 2>please feel free and and ask your question.

1030
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 6>Hey, I Sophia, it's Omar calling live from the Free

1031
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.880
<v Speaker 6>Thought Library in the atheist community of Austin.

1032
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:29.880
<v Speaker 1>In Austin, I wondered if this was this is the

1033
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Omar I know? Hello, Omar, Hello, Hello.

1034
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I just figured I would call and didn't put

1035
00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:40.159
<v Speaker 6>it maybe the clearest way I could. But yeah, I

1036
00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:44.760
<v Speaker 6>have noticed there has been a lot of I guess atheists, Uh,

1037
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:47.920
<v Speaker 6>you know, we'd become atheist and then a certain group

1038
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:52.639
<v Speaker 6>just like try to rationalize like hatred for trans people

1039
00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.400
<v Speaker 6>or trans issues or not accepting trans people as well

1040
00:55:56.440 --> 00:55:59.639
<v Speaker 6>as other maybe not scientific beliefs, and I just kind

1041
00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:03.079
<v Speaker 6>of wonder, like, how did that happen? I wanted to

1042
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:06.599
<v Speaker 6>get you guys' thoughts on that kind of stuff. The

1043
00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:10.039
<v Speaker 6>one that was particularly on my mind is just like

1044
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:15.360
<v Speaker 6>being so anti LGBT in terms of trans issues, or

1045
00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:17.960
<v Speaker 6>not even accepting that trans people are real people.

1046
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:24.000
<v Speaker 1>Clarify. Is it kind of like you're wondering why without religion,

1047
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Like if somebody became atheist and they still are transphobic,

1048
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:28.719
<v Speaker 1>is that the question?

1049
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:29.159
<v Speaker 3>Well?

1050
00:56:29.280 --> 00:56:31.599
<v Speaker 6>Sometimes I feel like people they don't have an opinion

1051
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:34.039
<v Speaker 6>on it, but they just go in on that. They

1052
00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:38.920
<v Speaker 6>kind of accept it almost uncritically. So yeah, well what

1053
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:40.599
<v Speaker 6>do you all think of that?

1054
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:45.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I feel like I think that leaving religion

1055
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:48.719
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean you leave bigotry, right, Like, I think that

1056
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:52.800
<v Speaker 1>there are still ways in which I've definitely seen atheists,

1057
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:56.000
<v Speaker 1>particularly when it comes to trans issues, feel like they

1058
00:56:56.000 --> 00:57:01.800
<v Speaker 1>can make some sort of biological argument, and really it's

1059
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:04.840
<v Speaker 1>that they still have these like transphobic ideas and they

1060
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:08.480
<v Speaker 1>just haven't really dealt with them. I mean, I think

1061
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:12.239
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting because there is, as Jimmy said, there's no

1062
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:16.800
<v Speaker 1>like atheist view of sexuality. Right. Atheists have a lot

1063
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:20.280
<v Speaker 1>of different opinions on pretty much everything. The only thing

1064
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:21.800
<v Speaker 1>that we can all say is that we do not

1065
00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:26.280
<v Speaker 1>believe that there is a God. I personally look at

1066
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:28.639
<v Speaker 1>it and think about, you know, as an atheist, I've

1067
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:30.400
<v Speaker 1>had to work so much harder than I did when

1068
00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:33.239
<v Speaker 1>I was religious to be rigorous about like what do

1069
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:35.559
<v Speaker 1>I actually believe is moral? What do I believe is right?

1070
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:41.239
<v Speaker 1>And so I started re examining my own beliefs about

1071
00:57:41.559 --> 00:57:44.280
<v Speaker 1>because I was pretty bigoted as a Christian, Like, I'm

1072
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:45.719
<v Speaker 1>going to put that out there, and I'm sure that

1073
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, there are still ways in which I'm you know,

1074
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:50.880
<v Speaker 1>anyone who says that they're just like the most open

1075
00:57:50.920 --> 00:57:53.000
<v Speaker 1>minded and they have no bigotries whatsoever, they're just not

1076
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:55.199
<v Speaker 1>examining themselves and trying to root it out. It's kind

1077
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:58.159
<v Speaker 1>of my belief there's still ways I can improve. I'm

1078
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:02.639
<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent sure about that. But I started looking

1079
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:05.440
<v Speaker 1>at you know, is the stuff that I was saying wrong?

1080
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Is it wrong? What was I basing that on? What

1081
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:11.840
<v Speaker 1>was I you know, what was I actually what was

1082
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.920
<v Speaker 1>I responding to? And now that I've left religion, if

1083
00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:20.320
<v Speaker 1>I continue to believe that somehow it's wrong to be gay,

1084
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:22.320
<v Speaker 1>or wrong to be trans, or the trans people don't

1085
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.079
<v Speaker 1>really exist, or like their experiences that are legitimate. What

1086
00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:28.360
<v Speaker 1>am I basing that on. I have so much more

1087
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:30.360
<v Speaker 1>freedom now that I have left religion to look at

1088
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:32.760
<v Speaker 1>it and be like, these are people who are finding

1089
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:35.960
<v Speaker 1>that they are happiest living a particular way. This is

1090
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:39.239
<v Speaker 1>who they are. I don't have some magical supreme authority

1091
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:41.239
<v Speaker 1>to say that they're not. And why would I want

1092
00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:44.679
<v Speaker 1>them to suffer so that they can fit into an

1093
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:48.440
<v Speaker 1>imagined binary that I only believed because I was told

1094
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I should when I was a religious person. Like that

1095
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:53.840
<v Speaker 1>starts to feel very ridiculous for me personally after leaving religion.

1096
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:56.199
<v Speaker 1>So I guess while I would say all that almost

1097
00:58:56.280 --> 00:58:58.800
<v Speaker 1>like sort of rambling to say, I think that even

1098
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:01.239
<v Speaker 1>though there isn't like here, here is the atheist thought,

1099
00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:03.039
<v Speaker 1>I look at it and I'm like, I can see

1100
00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:06.559
<v Speaker 1>how my thought process changed when I left religion because

1101
00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:08.880
<v Speaker 1>I started to just challenge myself to be like, not

1102
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:10.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of such a little shit.

1103
00:59:11.079 --> 00:59:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And when it comes to these beliefs that we

1104
00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:17.559
<v Speaker 2>have when we are religious, I want to harken back

1105
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:20.280
<v Speaker 2>to the point that Sophia made about the power structures.

1106
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:25.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, when you're in religion, the bigotry toward people

1107
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:29.840
<v Speaker 2>unlike yourselves is there in order to protect the power structure,

1108
00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:33.239
<v Speaker 2>because if you accept those people that are different from

1109
00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:36.239
<v Speaker 2>what you're being taught, then the entire power structure is

1110
00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:41.199
<v Speaker 2>vulnerable to crumbling. You have to teach that homosexuals and

1111
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:46.159
<v Speaker 2>transgender people are not what God intended in order for

1112
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:50.920
<v Speaker 2>their intent to manifest itself in the minds of others

1113
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:53.800
<v Speaker 2>who they're trying to draw their support and they're financing from.

1114
00:59:54.199 --> 00:59:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Once you go, once you turn your back on that,

1115
00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:02.639
<v Speaker 2>or once you change course, you'll lose your credibility as

1116
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:05.119
<v Speaker 2>far as being the power structure that is saying these

1117
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:09.400
<v Speaker 2>hateful and hurtful things, because then maybe people say, well,

1118
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:11.719
<v Speaker 2>what else are they wrong about? And maybe I don't

1119
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:13.800
<v Speaker 2>even need to go there or give them money anymore,

1120
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.679
<v Speaker 2>and then that kind of thing could be so ingrained.

1121
01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:20.119
<v Speaker 2>And you know, coming out of religion and still having

1122
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a bigotry towards transgender and LGBTQ plus people is a

1123
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:26.400
<v Speaker 2>lot like realizing I shouldn't say it's a lot like

1124
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:30.800
<v Speaker 2>because still that hatred is so much and so far

1125
01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:33.800
<v Speaker 2>more destructive toward those people. But I want to liken

1126
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:36.000
<v Speaker 2>it to the thing that a lot of people experience

1127
01:00:36.039 --> 01:00:38.719
<v Speaker 2>when they come out of their religion. They still hold

1128
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:41.559
<v Speaker 2>on to, like the belief in hell, for example, because

1129
01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:44.519
<v Speaker 2>it's so freaking scary. It's the thing that has probably

1130
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:46.840
<v Speaker 2>kept them in their religion the most. And then they

1131
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:49.320
<v Speaker 2>realize that they've got questions about their religion, and so

1132
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.440
<v Speaker 2>they start moving away from their religion, and almost always

1133
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:54.719
<v Speaker 2>the last thing to go is the belief in hell.

1134
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:57.400
<v Speaker 2>They could call themselves an atheist and still be afraid

1135
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:00.320
<v Speaker 2>of Hell because they've spent a lifetime being so freight

1136
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.519
<v Speaker 2>And if you spend a lifetime hating certain people, it

1137
01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 2>might take some time. It might take some time to

1138
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:08.599
<v Speaker 2>get over that hatred. On the other hand, though, for

1139
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:11.000
<v Speaker 2>the people that do get over that, I would say

1140
01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:14.519
<v Speaker 2>that once you do start questioning that power structure, you

1141
01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:19.679
<v Speaker 2>realize the lack of validity that they have with the

1142
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.679
<v Speaker 2>claims that they make, you realize, you know, these people

1143
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:26.960
<v Speaker 2>are just people, right. LGBTQ plus people are people having

1144
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:31.039
<v Speaker 2>a human experience trying to find themselves, just like I'm

1145
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:33.159
<v Speaker 2>trying to do, trying to leave this religion that has

1146
01:01:33.199 --> 01:01:35.360
<v Speaker 2>taught me so many things that I disagree with and

1147
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:37.360
<v Speaker 2>that I'm not okay with, And when you step out

1148
01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:39.320
<v Speaker 2>of that, you open your eyes to the fact that

1149
01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:43.920
<v Speaker 2>we are all individuals you can't help but have that

1150
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:49.079
<v Speaker 2>same sympathy for the LGBTQ plus community. And I think

1151
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:54.719
<v Speaker 2>that that is likely why so many atheists who also

1152
01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:57.719
<v Speaker 2>consider themselves free thinkers have such sympathy or have such

1153
01:01:57.719 --> 01:02:01.039
<v Speaker 2>empathy for those people. And so that's my thoughts. Those

1154
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:01.920
<v Speaker 2>are my thoughts on that.

1155
01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:05.519
<v Speaker 6>Omar, what say you Now, I agree with you on

1156
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.559
<v Speaker 6>the I do. Just there's one thing I've noticed is

1157
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:10.480
<v Speaker 6>a lot of people just kind of get into this

1158
01:02:10.599 --> 01:02:14.719
<v Speaker 6>idea of like trying to find a rational belief and oh,

1159
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.360
<v Speaker 6>I've got out of religion, now I want to be rational,

1160
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:20.360
<v Speaker 6>and they kind of are contrarians on a lot of things.

1161
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:22.800
<v Speaker 6>So they'll probably look into like, oh, let me look

1162
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:27.400
<v Speaker 6>at these anti trans arguments or or maybe even go

1163
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:30.440
<v Speaker 6>into other kind of conspiracies and then like rationalize, oh, well,

1164
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.360
<v Speaker 6>I was smart enough to get out of religion, now

1165
01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:35.639
<v Speaker 6>now I'm smart enough to believe this stuff. And then

1166
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:38.960
<v Speaker 6>they get into all this other hatred and bigotry, or

1167
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:42.400
<v Speaker 6>at least that's what I have noticed, well, like, well

1168
01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:43.679
<v Speaker 6>it's right, yeah.

1169
01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Omar, Omar, I want to I want to challenge on

1170
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:48.280
<v Speaker 2>one thing. And don't get me wrong, glad that you

1171
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:52.639
<v Speaker 2>made the switch, and glad that you progressed what i'll

1172
01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:55.719
<v Speaker 2>call progression out of religion and into the realm of

1173
01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:58.639
<v Speaker 2>free thinking. But just because somebody is religious does not

1174
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:00.800
<v Speaker 2>mean that they're not smart, right, And so I want

1175
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:03.719
<v Speaker 2>to make that I want to make that point there.

1176
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:06.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, you may you say you were smart enough

1177
01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:08.599
<v Speaker 2>or people are smart enough to get out of religion,

1178
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:11.280
<v Speaker 2>but some people, you know, I look at religion as

1179
01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:15.199
<v Speaker 2>a form of survival. I look at it as an indoctrination.

1180
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:19.239
<v Speaker 2>First of all, they are when people are helpless and young,

1181
01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:23.079
<v Speaker 2>usually they are told who they are and what they

1182
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:25.719
<v Speaker 2>need to think, not how to think. And that is

1183
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:31.159
<v Speaker 2>a disastrous way to let your your or have your brain,

1184
01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:35.639
<v Speaker 2>your your thought processes form. So not only that, but

1185
01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:39.440
<v Speaker 2>then they risk throwing away all of their security, their

1186
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.320
<v Speaker 2>sense of community. Their family may be, funding for college,

1187
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:44.920
<v Speaker 2>may be a place to live, food on the table,

1188
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:49.039
<v Speaker 2>a shelter over their head. If they are to challenge

1189
01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:51.159
<v Speaker 2>those views that they have been instilled with. And so

1190
01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:54.719
<v Speaker 2>while they may be smart. They also need to take

1191
01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:59.159
<v Speaker 2>action to ensure their own survivability, to ensure their own

1192
01:03:59.199 --> 01:04:01.960
<v Speaker 2>comfort in life. There many people that call us from

1193
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Muslim countries that say, you know, I'm not a believer,

1194
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:07.400
<v Speaker 2>but there's nothing I can do. In our advice to

1195
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:10.119
<v Speaker 2>them a lot of times is hey, look, don't do

1196
01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:12.119
<v Speaker 2>anything that's going to put you in danger, because in

1197
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:14.039
<v Speaker 2>those countries, if you come out as an atheist, you

1198
01:04:14.119 --> 01:04:16.199
<v Speaker 2>could be stoned to death, you could be imprisoned, it

1199
01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:18.760
<v Speaker 2>could be hanged, and so we don't want to see

1200
01:04:18.760 --> 01:04:22.119
<v Speaker 2>that happen, right. We don't want to also, though, give

1201
01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:25.199
<v Speaker 2>the impression that we think they're not smart. And I

1202
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:27.679
<v Speaker 2>don't think that you mean that maliciously, but I think

1203
01:04:27.719 --> 01:04:30.199
<v Speaker 2>that that's a good opportunity to step in and say,

1204
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:33.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, let's be a little bit sympathetic to people

1205
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:38.559
<v Speaker 2>who don't have the luxuries that we have had or

1206
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:41.000
<v Speaker 2>the awakenings that we've had.

1207
01:04:41.639 --> 01:04:43.119
<v Speaker 1>I think I might want to throw out there. I

1208
01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:47.559
<v Speaker 1>don't know if that's exactly what Omar was meaning. Okay,

1209
01:04:47.559 --> 01:04:50.000
<v Speaker 1>connected for mang Omar, I think that at least how

1210
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I interpreted that was sort of and I agree with

1211
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:55.119
<v Speaker 1>everything you said there about like, I'm not smarter now

1212
01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:57.719
<v Speaker 1>than I was before when I was religious. You know,

1213
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.280
<v Speaker 1>it was just I was exposed to a very different

1214
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.079
<v Speaker 1>I would say, set of facts, but I was given, yeah,

1215
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:07.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of sort of twisted information. But I think

1216
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.480
<v Speaker 1>that there is a sort of I would call it,

1217
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 1>like a dude bro atheist who does leave religion and

1218
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.840
<v Speaker 1>take the attitude that they are now smarter and so

1219
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 1>they're going to be contrarian about everything. And so I

1220
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:27.079
<v Speaker 1>think about people who are secular and are maybe anti

1221
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:31.880
<v Speaker 1>trans are arguing, for how to put it, they perceive

1222
01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:35.880
<v Speaker 1>cultural pressure whether they are correct or not to believe

1223
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:37.920
<v Speaker 1>a certain way. So they've just decided they're going to

1224
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.280
<v Speaker 1>reject everything, so if they feel that they are supposed

1225
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:43.719
<v Speaker 1>to be these are people who complain a lot about

1226
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:47.280
<v Speaker 1>like political correctness. Right. It's a very terminally online kind

1227
01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:50.719
<v Speaker 1>of person, the online dude bro, the atheist dude bro.

1228
01:05:50.840 --> 01:05:54.480
<v Speaker 1>I guess, which I realize is gender language is just

1229
01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:56.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've often run into folks who are

1230
01:05:56.400 --> 01:05:58.760
<v Speaker 1>men who kind of do this that. Well, I'm an

1231
01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:02.760
<v Speaker 1>atheist because I'm a smart freethinker. But I'm also a

1232
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:05.880
<v Speaker 1>smart freethinker, so I don't buy into the transagenda. Like,

1233
01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:09.280
<v Speaker 1>there are people who hold these two simultaneous beliefs who

1234
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:14.360
<v Speaker 1>do exist in atheist spaces online, and it's unfortunate, And

1235
01:06:14.440 --> 01:06:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I would argue that those are people who are they're

1236
01:06:18.519 --> 01:06:23.159
<v Speaker 1>not actually taking in evidence about how like that trans

1237
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:25.880
<v Speaker 1>people do in fact exist. They're not listening to people's

1238
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:28.039
<v Speaker 1>experiences of what it's like to live as a transperson.

1239
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:31.320
<v Speaker 1>They're just kind of trying to do the It's similar

1240
01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:33.880
<v Speaker 1>to the Ben Shapiro facts are smarter than your feeling style.

1241
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:36.280
<v Speaker 1>The facts are more important than your feeling style thing.

1242
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:39.679
<v Speaker 1>I believe that it's a way for them to try

1243
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:42.280
<v Speaker 1>to cover up any hurt, to never be vulnerable because

1244
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:45.440
<v Speaker 1>they can just be the super smart dude in every

1245
01:06:45.639 --> 01:06:48.519
<v Speaker 1>situation and they don't have feelings, They just have logic

1246
01:06:48.679 --> 01:06:51.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. So at least that's how I interpreted it.

1247
01:06:52.400 --> 01:06:53.920
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, just to throw that out there, that that

1248
01:06:53.960 --> 01:06:55.880
<v Speaker 1>does exist, and I do see it, and I find

1249
01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:57.760
<v Speaker 1>it an interesting archetype as well.

1250
01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:01.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that was more what I was referring to, Sophia.

1251
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:04.480
<v Speaker 6>I don't I think people have their own personal journeys

1252
01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:08.199
<v Speaker 6>on their reasons that they're still believers or they're not.

1253
01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:10.920
<v Speaker 6>But I do think there are some kind of people

1254
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.880
<v Speaker 6>who just think take it as like, well, I figured

1255
01:07:14.880 --> 01:07:18.920
<v Speaker 6>this out, so I'm smarter than other people because I

1256
01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:23.119
<v Speaker 6>can figure out other things. That is kind of contrarian too.

1257
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:26.079
<v Speaker 6>What the popular notion of what to believe.

1258
01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Is, Yeah, I feel like there's I take that.

1259
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:31.840
<v Speaker 6>Down like not to like to like keep getting atheists

1260
01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:33.360
<v Speaker 6>who believe the earth is what.

1261
01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's kind of this people who are more married

1262
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:40.679
<v Speaker 1>to being contrarian than they are actually seeking what is

1263
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:46.199
<v Speaker 1>most true, and they're these kneeture contrarian reactions are potentially

1264
01:07:46.239 --> 01:07:50.880
<v Speaker 1>obvious skating truth rather than actually helping them find it.

1265
01:07:50.880 --> 01:07:52.840
<v Speaker 1>It sort of goes with kind of what I feel

1266
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:54.679
<v Speaker 1>like we say often is just that that not all

1267
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:57.199
<v Speaker 1>atheists agree or say the same things, or believe the

1268
01:07:57.199 --> 01:08:01.599
<v Speaker 1>same things, and that in our community with the ACA,

1269
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:05.400
<v Speaker 1>I feel very fortunate that you know, people have met

1270
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:08.719
<v Speaker 1>are affirming and wonderful. But I also feel like those

1271
01:08:08.719 --> 01:08:10.920
<v Speaker 1>are people who select to be part of a community

1272
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:14.800
<v Speaker 1>together where they may be challenged, where they actually are

1273
01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:18.039
<v Speaker 1>going to have to think about what they're saying. And

1274
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that yeah, when people have some of these

1275
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.520
<v Speaker 1>like ideas of well atheists, you know, these atheists are

1276
01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:27.560
<v Speaker 1>jerks too, like they're they're out there and a lot

1277
01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:29.760
<v Speaker 1>of them can suck. But I think they're not pursuing

1278
01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:32.520
<v Speaker 1>like factuality. I don't think they're leaving religion because they

1279
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:35.119
<v Speaker 1>became convinced it was untrue. I think sometimes they're leaving

1280
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:38.119
<v Speaker 1>it because they just want to be contrary and that

1281
01:08:38.199 --> 01:08:40.840
<v Speaker 1>makes them feel big, and so they'll be contrary about

1282
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:44.439
<v Speaker 1>what they view as the transagenda, or they'll join the manisphere,

1283
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:47.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, or be part of that space because that

1284
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:50.560
<v Speaker 1>also makes them feel big. Yeah. I think that these

1285
01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:53.760
<v Speaker 1>are the atheists who sometimes will convert back to a

1286
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:56.359
<v Speaker 1>religion and because it was never really like a well

1287
01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:57.760
<v Speaker 1>founded atheism to begin with.

1288
01:08:57.960 --> 01:09:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Omar, sorry about that. I thought what I was

1289
01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:03.079
<v Speaker 2>hearing from you was maybe a misspeak. Uh, not that

1290
01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:06.079
<v Speaker 2>you necessarily thought that, but that uh, you were kind

1291
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of just highlighting that as a as a way to

1292
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:11.920
<v Speaker 2>think about it and or or maybe something that comes

1293
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:14.079
<v Speaker 2>from other people, and that that's a good opportunity to

1294
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:16.920
<v Speaker 2>get in there and dispel these kind of rumors that

1295
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:20.840
<v Speaker 2>that atheists quote unquote think like this right when we

1296
01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:25.119
<v Speaker 2>don't write I don't think, for example, that uh, you know,

1297
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:28.000
<v Speaker 2>religion is a mental littleness. I don't think that people

1298
01:09:28.039 --> 01:09:31.840
<v Speaker 2>are stupid because uh, they believe in religion. And so yeah,

1299
01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Omar not necessarily directed toward you, but I really appreciate

1300
01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:36.199
<v Speaker 2>you bringing that up.

1301
01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Thank you all for technical Thank you.

1302
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Do I know Omar? You said you know Omar?

1303
01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Do you might have met Omar? I don't know, Okay, yeah,

1304
01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:59.640
<v Speaker 1>full disclosure Christmas. He's a good friend. Oh good was

1305
01:09:59.640 --> 01:10:01.479
<v Speaker 1>he on the I'm like, that's not one of our

1306
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:03.840
<v Speaker 1>thanks but yeah, so.

1307
01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Do you know if he went to the back cruise,

1308
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I did beat him.

1309
01:10:05.720 --> 01:10:07.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, he probably did, but I was. I

1310
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:09.560
<v Speaker 1>was about to give for giving birth on the back

1311
01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:10.479
<v Speaker 1>cruise this year, So.

1312
01:10:10.520 --> 01:10:12.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, we'll see you this year. Hey, you know, we

1313
01:10:12.359 --> 01:10:15.640
<v Speaker 2>have eight months until the back cru so viewers, you

1314
01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:18.199
<v Speaker 2>could start planning now. I know that many of us are,

1315
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:20.720
<v Speaker 2>and I can't wait. I'm already looking at the calendar

1316
01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:22.880
<v Speaker 2>to see, uh you know, when it's going to be

1317
01:10:23.039 --> 01:10:25.560
<v Speaker 2>and where I'm going to stay and what have you.

1318
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.560
<v Speaker 2>But on that note, after that wonderful call, we are

1319
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:31.560
<v Speaker 2>going to go to the top five patrons. Sophia, would

1320
01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:32.680
<v Speaker 2>you mind doing the.

1321
01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Honors yes, okay, So our top five patrons. Number one

1322
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:41.159
<v Speaker 1>we have oops All Singularity, which is amazing. Number two

1323
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:45.880
<v Speaker 1>we have Dingleberry Jackson. Number three Kleevi Helvetti, which I

1324
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:47.199
<v Speaker 1>think I said right because I was like, I just

1325
01:10:47.239 --> 01:10:48.720
<v Speaker 1>got to go into it. I can't just like think

1326
01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:51.760
<v Speaker 1>about how I'm going to say it. Yeah, thank you.

1327
01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Number four Brian Zupkey, which I'm thinking is going to

1328
01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:59.119
<v Speaker 1>be said upkey on zoop. Well we go with that.

1329
01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:03.319
<v Speaker 1>Number five I have Ja Calton and then an honorable

1330
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:08.399
<v Speaker 1>mention to Moldrid d Malcontent, which is an amazing name.

1331
01:11:08.680 --> 01:11:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I thought that too before. When I pulled up

1332
01:11:10.640 --> 01:11:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the script for the first time, I was like, that

1333
01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:14.560
<v Speaker 2>is dope. That's awesome.

1334
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:19.560
<v Speaker 1>You are Dope, mister Malcontent or miss mal Content, individual

1335
01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:22.439
<v Speaker 1>malcontent anyway, Yes, love it amazing.

1336
01:11:22.680 --> 01:11:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you, and thank you to everybody who gives

1337
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.079
<v Speaker 2>to us on Patreon. If you want to have your

1338
01:11:27.159 --> 01:11:30.119
<v Speaker 2>name read on the air, please consider supporting us at

1339
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:35.039
<v Speaker 2>tiny dot cc, forward slash, Patreon THH And on that note,

1340
01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:39.279
<v Speaker 2>we have started recording the talk Hethen Discord after show

1341
01:11:39.520 --> 01:11:42.239
<v Speaker 2>for all levels of paid patrons, So if you go

1342
01:11:42.279 --> 01:11:45.520
<v Speaker 2>on to Patreon, you become a member. You can hear

1343
01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:48.720
<v Speaker 2>our after show, which I will be on today on Discord,

1344
01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and Sophia, you'll be joining us, I understand excellent, and

1345
01:11:52.600 --> 01:11:55.359
<v Speaker 2>our man Kelly backstage is going to be joining us

1346
01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:57.520
<v Speaker 2>as well. So if you want more content and a

1347
01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:00.560
<v Speaker 2>more informal look, and here's some of our conversations that

1348
01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:04.520
<v Speaker 2>we have without a script, join us. Join us on

1349
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:08.159
<v Speaker 2>Patreon today and definitely chime in today to the Discord

1350
01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:11.319
<v Speaker 2>after show. We have a couple of super chats that

1351
01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:14.079
<v Speaker 2>I want to get to. All right, so Nero sends

1352
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:17.520
<v Speaker 2>us five dollars. If your child can't learn by verbal education,

1353
01:12:17.920 --> 01:12:23.000
<v Speaker 2>spanking communicates even less and is functionally useless. If you can,

1354
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:27.439
<v Speaker 2>spanking is unnecessary. Thank you, Yeah, krudos, I mean I

1355
01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:31.399
<v Speaker 2>can't I have I have nothing to say except I agreeheartily.

1356
01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Some kind of Dicky is back for more. He gave

1357
01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:36.880
<v Speaker 2>us ten more dollars. If your morality is based on

1358
01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:39.600
<v Speaker 2>your religion, then your decision to beat your child is

1359
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:43.359
<v Speaker 2>based on your religion, whether you're beating your child with

1360
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.000
<v Speaker 2>a Bible or a stick. Very good point. You know,

1361
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:49.760
<v Speaker 2>how do you know? You argue, well, I get my

1362
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:53.479
<v Speaker 2>morals from God and then you abuse your kids or

1363
01:12:53.560 --> 01:12:57.880
<v Speaker 2>others and hate your hate people, you must derive that

1364
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:01.119
<v Speaker 2>from this, this all loving, all powerful source.

1365
01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Right. I thought that was really good. Yeah. I've never

1366
01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:06.359
<v Speaker 1>met a parent who spanks children that isn't doing it

1367
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:10.439
<v Speaker 1>out of fear. And if your morality is based on God,

1368
01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:12.720
<v Speaker 1>and God is teaching you to act out of fear,

1369
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:16.319
<v Speaker 1>then your God is a fearful and small person or

1370
01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:17.439
<v Speaker 1>being rather yeah.

1371
01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:20.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And on that note, you know, we did only

1372
01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:23.119
<v Speaker 2>receive nine out of the ten super chats, but we

1373
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:26.039
<v Speaker 2>received the more than the fifty dollars we were looking for.

1374
01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>And so on that note, even though we didn't get ten,

1375
01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:32.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to show my drawing. Okay, so folks, I

1376
01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:34.239
<v Speaker 2>want you to not be too critical.

1377
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:38.239
<v Speaker 1>So what we had, right, and no critical everyone criticize

1378
01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:38.920
<v Speaker 1>it so hard.

1379
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:42.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh we got we got a full screenshot, all right.

1380
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:46.680
<v Speaker 2>So we were asked for a donkey Jesus with a tail,

1381
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:52.600
<v Speaker 2>snout and ears to fight a vampire puppy while the

1382
01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:56.239
<v Speaker 2>puppy was showing signs of angst and having some kind

1383
01:13:56.279 --> 01:14:00.680
<v Speaker 2>of power, you know, powerful background. I'm going to bring

1384
01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:02.720
<v Speaker 2>this up and this is going to end up on

1385
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:08.199
<v Speaker 2>a T shirt, someday. So there's amazing. There's Jesus, Donkey Jesus.

1386
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:11.359
<v Speaker 2>The puppy is sweating angst. He's got nunchucks. I mean

1387
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:13.119
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of a dog. I don't know if that's

1388
01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:16.039
<v Speaker 2>quite a puppy, but you know, the puppy Jesus is

1389
01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:18.800
<v Speaker 2>in like a karate stance. You see the power behind them.

1390
01:14:18.880 --> 01:14:21.720
<v Speaker 2>And I started to spell challenge wrong forgive me super

1391
01:14:21.800 --> 01:14:26.399
<v Speaker 2>Chat challenge one twelve twenty five. And so puppy puppy, vampire,

1392
01:14:26.960 --> 01:14:29.920
<v Speaker 2>vampire fangs, He's got his nunchucks, he's fighting donkey Jesus.

1393
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.560
<v Speaker 2>They're getting into it all right. And so I hope

1394
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:34.600
<v Speaker 2>everybody enjoyed that drawing.

1395
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>I so good.

1396
01:14:36.399 --> 01:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I enjoyed.

1397
01:14:37.560 --> 01:14:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I was like, be so critical. I wanted to tease you,

1398
01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:40.680
<v Speaker 1>but it's actually really good.

1399
01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, well, dang, well, maybe I'll redo it. Maybe

1400
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I'll redo it a little bit, and I could like

1401
01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:50.439
<v Speaker 2>maybe get some support on making that one of our

1402
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:54.000
<v Speaker 2>pieces of merch. But yeah, so, folks, that is going

1403
01:14:54.079 --> 01:14:56.039
<v Speaker 2>to do it for today. I want to thank Kelly

1404
01:14:56.119 --> 01:14:59.479
<v Speaker 2>for helping us out. Kelly popped up. Yeah, Kelly, what

1405
01:14:59.600 --> 01:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>is up?

1406
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:00.479
<v Speaker 3>Dude?

1407
01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Did you have any comments you wanted to make about

1408
01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:06.840
<v Speaker 2>today's callers. Oh muted, you did it again. You did

1409
01:15:06.840 --> 01:15:07.319
<v Speaker 2>it again.

1410
01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:11.159
<v Speaker 4>I totally did I pulled it, Johnny. I don't have

1411
01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:13.399
<v Speaker 4>anything to say about the callers, but I do want

1412
01:15:13.439 --> 01:15:15.800
<v Speaker 4>to say that I totally agree with Sophia. There's no

1413
01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:19.119
<v Speaker 4>reason to spank your children. I have two adult children

1414
01:15:19.159 --> 01:15:21.439
<v Speaker 4>that I never spanked while I was raising them, and

1415
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:24.560
<v Speaker 4>they both turned into wonderful adults. So it's to me

1416
01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:29.359
<v Speaker 4>that's proof you don't have to spank your children. So yeah, yeah, Kelly.

1417
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:33.359
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you being with us today and reading the

1418
01:15:33.560 --> 01:15:35.960
<v Speaker 2>question of the week, going through that challenge with us.

1419
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:39.239
<v Speaker 2>The prompt for this week is sin is to God

1420
01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:42.279
<v Speaker 2>as what is to what? Make sure that you reply

1421
01:15:42.359 --> 01:15:45.000
<v Speaker 2>in the comments to this video and tune in at

1422
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of next week's episode to hear all our

1423
01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:49.800
<v Speaker 2>top three answers. And with that, I'm going to ask

1424
01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:52.479
<v Speaker 2>the crew to give us some lover rings. Yes, they're

1425
01:15:52.560 --> 01:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>coming from Kelly's tie them from Kelly Spot. So, folks,

1426
01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:01.079
<v Speaker 2>if you do not believe, remember this is your community

1427
01:16:01.079 --> 01:16:03.479
<v Speaker 2>and we appreciate you being here. But if you do believe,

1428
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:05.279
<v Speaker 2>just know that we do not hate you.

1429
01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:22.199
<v Speaker 1>We're just not convinced.

1430
01:16:28.079 --> 01:16:31.800
<v Speaker 7>We want the truth, so watch Truth Wanted Live Friday

1431
01:16:31.840 --> 01:16:35.880
<v Speaker 7>at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y

1432
01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:39.079
<v Speaker 7>t tw and call into the show at five one

1433
01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:44.800
<v Speaker 7>two four two, or connect to the show online at

1434
01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:47.680
<v Speaker 7>tiny dot cc slash call tw