Speaker 1: We are face today with quite a few theocrats who
Speaker 1: think that we should all be following their god. I
Speaker 1: had a conversation recently with someone I'm very close to
Speaker 1: about how they think if we based all laws on
Speaker 1: the Ten Commandments that we would have a peaceful and
Speaker 1: just society. So some pretty basic questions about that. One
Speaker 1: should I be legally required to honor my mother and father?
Speaker 1: What if my mother and father don't honor their mother
Speaker 1: and father? Should I be bound to not be covetous
Speaker 1: of my friend's perfect children, or their instagrammable life, or
Speaker 1: their neat and tidy house. How would the government even
Speaker 1: know about that anyway? And when it comes to putting
Speaker 1: other gods before theirs, is that something that I should
Speaker 1: be legally kept from doing. I have a lot of
Speaker 1: questions about this. If you feel like I'm being facetious,
Speaker 1: or if you feel like no, it totally makes sense
Speaker 1: to base laws on these ancient moral codes, completely stripped
Speaker 1: of context, then give us a call. Because the show
Speaker 1: is starting now.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, wonderful intro. We are here. The music has played.
Speaker 2: I am in the mindset to get the show on
Speaker 2: the road. This is talky than Welcome everyone today is
Speaker 2: January twelfth, twenty twenty five. I am your host, Jimmy Junr.
Speaker 2: Joining me today is the wonderful and brilliant Sophia Spina.
Speaker 2: How the heck are you, Sophia?
Speaker 1: Waking up? I'm waking up. As we were talking before
Speaker 1: the show, I'm still in the you know, almost five
Speaker 1: months old, so maybe not quite as newborn and newborn,
Speaker 1: but we're still figuring out sleeping and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm here. I feel less brilliant than normal, but
Speaker 1: we're getting there.
Speaker 2: Well, you're in the thick of it, for sure. You
Speaker 2: are in the thick of it, five month old baby.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you can be feeling less brilliant.
Speaker 2: You know, we did a show a few weeks ago
Speaker 2: and you are absolutely on fire and that was a
Speaker 2: lot of fun. You me, Dan, We had a good time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you know that when you're pregnant your brain
Speaker 1: actually shrinks, like physically shrinks.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that. I knew that. My wife
Speaker 2: might have mentioned that, but she talks a lot about
Speaker 2: pregnancy brain. Uh, and actually how women lose like I
Speaker 2: guess your hormones and uh, they tend you. They tend
Speaker 2: to make women lose certain I guess muscle memory when
Speaker 2: it comes to you know, how you think and you know.
Speaker 1: And then it grows back, yes, right, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's a whole it's a whole interesting thing to be
Speaker 1: to be doing this as my brain is actively changing.
Speaker 1: It's amazing though.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm super thrilled to be working with you again, folks.
Speaker 2: This is talking than a product of the Atheist Community
Speaker 2: of Austin. We are a five oh one C three
Speaker 2: nonprofit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking,
Speaker 2: secular use excuse me, secular humanism, and the separation of
Speaker 2: religion and government. And we are a live call in show.
Speaker 2: We have open lines right now, so get your call
Speaker 2: at five one two nine four two or from your
Speaker 2: computer at tiny dot cc forward slash call THH. And
Speaker 2: you know, today it's the top of the show. So
Speaker 2: I just want to throw this out there for all
Speaker 2: of our listeners. We have a super Chat challenge, and
Speaker 2: I really like what has been going on with the
Speaker 2: Superchat challenges. You know, a few weeks ago Ben and
Speaker 2: Christy did the drawing challenge, and so I'm gonna reignite that. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know, I just signed up for new oil and
Speaker 2: acrylic painting classes. I'm taking like a three month course
Speaker 2: over the next well couple few months, and so I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm ready to reinvigorate the artist inside of me. And
Speaker 2: so I'm going to be drawing for all you folks.
Speaker 2: You give us a super chat five dollars at least,
Speaker 2: and tell us in the superchat what you want me
Speaker 2: to draw. I will incorporate that into the drawing. And
Speaker 2: I'm going to rally very hard. I can't make any
Speaker 2: promises to make it a T shirt, so I want
Speaker 2: everybody to give me their best and I will come
Speaker 2: up with a talk heathen piece of merch unique to today,
Speaker 2: January twelfth, which you can be a part of. Before
Speaker 2: we start doing that, let's get into this week's Question
Speaker 2: of the Week segment and presenting this segment today is
Speaker 2: our wonderful backup host, Kelly Laughlin Kelly oh.
Speaker 4: Way, sir, all right. Last week we asked for you
Speaker 4: to complete the sentence. It wouldn't surprise me if the
Speaker 4: atheists started blank. And here are our top three answers.
Speaker 4: Number three from Shay the Crowcheer, It wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 4: Brendan Fraser or doing the Sign of the Cross to
Speaker 4: a real saint, Keanu Reeves. Now I'm going to agree
Speaker 4: with the Benden Fraser park. I'm not so sure that
Speaker 4: I agree that Keanu Reeves is a saint. But am
Speaker 4: I missing something there?
Speaker 2: Why is Brendan Fraser America's sweetheart?
Speaker 1: Because he doesn't love Brendan Fraser exactly And I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's amazing, whether it was George of the Jungle or
Speaker 1: Blast from the Past. Also, I remember watching that as
Speaker 1: a kid and being like, look at that gentleman. It
Speaker 1: was a non toxic rom com.
Speaker 2: That's Sino Man and Sino Man can't forget and Sino
Speaker 2: Man that one.
Speaker 1: But I believe you he was a.
Speaker 2: Cave man that was dug up in some kids, some
Speaker 2: high school kids back yard. It was awesome, So okay, great.
Speaker 2: Didn't he just win an oscar like a year ago.
Speaker 1: For the whale? I think, which maybe I don't as
Speaker 1: wholeheartedly endorse. I know there's some depictions of sadness. People
Speaker 1: are a little you know, iffy ab out in there,
Speaker 1: but he still seems very sweet. Sure, he bought some
Speaker 1: kid off a freeway once, like he just gave him
Speaker 1: all the cash he had, and the kid out a
Speaker 1: box with the chihuahua and bought the Chiuaha. That's cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's totally cool. I always get him mixed up
Speaker 4: with uh oh geese.
Speaker 2: Now I can't think of his name. He was in Glory.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but it seems like you're mixing
Speaker 2: everybody up.
Speaker 4: You got her Crawford, Is that right?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but let's move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, because I'm just making myself look stupid, so I
Speaker 4: don't want to do that.
Speaker 2: He thinks about Reeves by the way, I just want
Speaker 2: to say that, all right.
Speaker 4: Number two from X million, no surprise atheists are going
Speaker 4: to petition the government to get Satan in the Pledge
Speaker 4: of Allegiance. Well, that would be awesome. I would love
Speaker 4: to see that.
Speaker 2: Now. I think that's more likely than number three. I
Speaker 2: feel like an actual fight could take place like this.
Speaker 2: This is this could be reality. Satan's people petitioning to
Speaker 2: get Satan in there.
Speaker 4: I just think it would be fun, that's all. I don't.
Speaker 2: You know. Obviously, I don't believe in Satan, but I
Speaker 2: think it would be fun to have them inside the Pledge.
Speaker 4: Of allegiance. So and our number one answer from the amazing,
Speaker 4: incredible Chuck Gatos. It wouldn't surprise me if atheists started
Speaker 4: saying Hellelujah when their team scores, so the church police
Speaker 4: will think they're agreeing with the sermon instead of blacking
Speaker 4: football on their phones. Yeah, is perfect. That's great.
Speaker 2: So that reminds me of church as a kid. Like
Speaker 2: when we got home TV went on, football came on right,
Speaker 2: it was like because we're on the East coast, and
Speaker 2: it was like, you got to get home by one o'clock.
Speaker 2: One o'clock is when the game starts, so you could
Speaker 2: the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, man, if if if my father had any your
Speaker 2: piece with a with a you know, a radio, he
Speaker 2: definitely would have smuggled it into church, that's for sure.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely definitely my dad would have done the
Speaker 4: same thing. But our prompt for next week is sin
Speaker 4: is to God as what is to what? Sophia, what
Speaker 4: do you.
Speaker 1: Think I would say? Sin is to God as Kuten
Speaker 1: is to my friend him. I don't know, that's all
Speaker 1: because I'm just kind of like it's sort of this
Speaker 1: obsession with it. There's so many things with it, you
Speaker 1: know that are in it, but you can't have it
Speaker 1: and it's bad, and so it's it's sort of a
Speaker 1: fraught relationship really more than like antie. You know, it's
Speaker 1: repellent but also attractive.
Speaker 4: Jimmy, you got an answer for us?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. Sin is to God as child abuse
Speaker 2: is to clergy members. So you know, they they they
Speaker 2: probably act like it's not good, but they just do
Speaker 2: it anyway. If you've ever read the Bible, God is
Speaker 2: the biggest sinner out of all the characters there. So, uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what I came up with.
Speaker 1: Does you're bringing fire to this? I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, gluten versus fucking child abuse.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: Wow, sorry, never miss an opportunity to call out the hypocrisy,
Speaker 2: That's what I say.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: I hope, I hope we come up with some good answers,
Speaker 4: don't don't forget. Put them in the comments below, not
Speaker 4: in the chat on the side, And next week we
Speaker 4: will read out the top three answers from this week,
Speaker 4: and hopefully one of them will be yours. And I
Speaker 4: want to thank Jimmy and Sophia for letting me come
Speaker 4: on and do this for the show. Thanks for doing it.
Speaker 1: You're amazing and we love you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I thank you so much. We love you too.
Speaker 2: So all right, cool well, thank you Kelly for leading
Speaker 2: us through the question of the week. And with that,
Speaker 2: you know, we have a show to do. What we're
Speaker 2: doing the show anyway, But first before we move forward,
Speaker 2: we got to go to the crew camp. We got
Speaker 2: to acknowledge all the people that make the show possible
Speaker 2: besides Kelly, and so let's bring up our wonderful, wonderful
Speaker 2: crew and some animals. I was gonna call it, we
Speaker 2: got a cat. That's awesome. Look at everybody. Hell yeah, man,
Speaker 2: we had a party going on. Jonathan nice hat man,
Speaker 2: man of style killing it all right, all right, cool well,
Speaker 2: thank you to the crew. You know, Sophia, we have
Speaker 2: got a voicemail this week. I want to kick the
Speaker 2: show off with a very odd voicemail that I don't
Speaker 2: know where this person is coming from. I don't know
Speaker 2: how to feel about it, but I'm gonna ask the
Speaker 2: crew to go ahead and run that.
Speaker 1: Ready.
Speaker 3: Hey, so I know you're going through a lot, but
Speaker 3: you're a really bad liar and you kind of sucked
Speaker 3: like my mom. But I love my mom and just
Speaker 3: stop paying a stubborn idiot bye.
Speaker 2: What So apparently, you know, this caller is saying, I
Speaker 2: know you're going through a lot, but you're a really
Speaker 2: bad liar. I don't know who he's talking to talk
Speaker 2: to me? Yeah, I don't know. I mean I did.
Speaker 2: I did a promo this week, and I felt like
Speaker 2: I was pretty like I don't know, even keel I
Speaker 2: wasn't yelling at the camera this time. But why why
Speaker 2: does his mom suck?
Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of mean to his mom. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe his mom does suck, like it's possible some parents do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was an interesting moment to just throw
Speaker 1: her under the bus. And also a bad liar is
Speaker 1: does his mom lie to him? Does he feel you
Speaker 1: were lying to him? Or whoever he was speaking to.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on there. Like the vibe I
Speaker 1: get is that somebody just like gained the gumption to
Speaker 1: just be like, I'm gonna call and say a thing
Speaker 1: and then immediately lost what they were going for.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I would have
Speaker 2: really enjoyed some context too, because I want to know
Speaker 2: what we're bad liars about. What is it that we
Speaker 2: get accused of a lot of things in like the
Speaker 2: show comments and stuff right, whether it's Facebook or YouTube
Speaker 2: or Instagram TikTok. You know, people are constantly calling us
Speaker 2: or making accusations towards us, like not only that we're lying,
Speaker 2: but like we're mad at God or you know, we
Speaker 2: just want to send you know, the common things. But
Speaker 2: I'd really like to know from some of these people,
Speaker 2: like what is the actual beef? What is the actual beef?
Speaker 2: And so yeah, man, I have to pause right there.
Speaker 2: Super chat from Nero just asked hotly, smokes, did that
Speaker 2: get put in? All right? I'm reading this. Nero asked,
Speaker 2: can we get a drawing of Jesus with donkey features?
Speaker 2: I have to make a note because I can't. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I could do this right now. Jesus
Speaker 2: with donkey features?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: So I don't know what that person's going for, ears
Speaker 2: and snout and tail. Okay, cool, thank you, because I
Speaker 2: was hoping we weren't moving to what was it the
Speaker 2: Ezekiel reference where it's so God, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They don't don't drag Jesus is junk.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to drive Jesus is junk? All right? Hey,
Speaker 2: Nero challenge accepted. All right, ears snout tail. We're going
Speaker 2: to get to that later. Cool.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that they're not taking it easy on you here.
Speaker 1: That's a complex drawing.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I asked, you know, give me
Speaker 2: a thing to draw, and I got ear snout tail.
Speaker 2: So I mean you we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's when you say a thing that
Speaker 1: could be a lot of stuff. Oh, we have one
Speaker 1: from Kelly who is trolling us, also a little bit.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I love it. I can read that out.
Speaker 2: Also read it, read it. I saw it dry puppy.
Speaker 1: That's also a vampire.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm doing this to myself. Thank you, Kelly.
Speaker 2: Uh So, anyway, I will try and get those going
Speaker 2: in just a little while here. But we've got some
Speaker 2: you know on that note, you know, people saying that
Speaker 2: they like on that voicemail. Back to the voicemail, like hey, no,
Speaker 2: you're going through a lot. Are a bad lawyer or
Speaker 2: a bad liar? You suck like my mom. We've got
Speaker 2: some comments on some of our some of our videos
Speaker 2: right that go back to the relationships between people in
Speaker 2: the household. So, for example, on our optional content here,
Speaker 2: are screenshots which I don't necessarily have to get to,
Speaker 2: but I want to bring these up just because of
Speaker 2: that person's weird, weird voicemail. We're gonna go to number five,
Speaker 2: and Sophia, this will be a good thing for us
Speaker 2: to have a conversation about for a minute, because I
Speaker 2: know that we've talked about this. You know, I was
Speaker 2: talking about let's see, I was talking. I was criticizing
Speaker 2: parents for kicking their kids out of the house, for
Speaker 2: being gay right, and that we don't have to just
Speaker 2: stop it gay right. But that person said there are
Speaker 2: atheists that will disown their children that profess to be Christian.
Speaker 2: I'm going to push back on that a little bit.
Speaker 2: I don't know, nor have I ever heard a single
Speaker 2: thing about an atheist kicking out a child. For me,
Speaker 2: I've never met one. Not saying they don't exist, right,
Speaker 2: but it is far more, far more common in my
Speaker 2: human experience to see a Christian family turn on people
Speaker 2: who don't subscribe, who no longer subscribe to their beliefs anymore. Right,
Speaker 2: It's so common, and it's awful. You cannot do that
Speaker 2: to your parents, to your children. I don't know, Sophia,
Speaker 2: go ahead, no.
Speaker 1: First of all, I agree that that is definitely, in
Speaker 1: my experience, something i've seen more. I think that with
Speaker 1: atheists there are so there are not as many of us,
Speaker 1: and so just by virtue of that, like, hey, if
Speaker 1: seventy percent of the population were suddenly atheists, would probably
Speaker 1: start seeing a lot more really bad atheist behavior. Just
Speaker 1: by virtue of the fact that there's going to be
Speaker 1: more people who ascribe to the label, more people will suck.
Speaker 1: There's a proportional suckedness. I suppose that would happen. And
Speaker 1: so I think with that caveat the idea of kicking
Speaker 1: someone out because they're Christian. I think that's the part
Speaker 1: that might be the most different. An atheist's parent could suck,
Speaker 1: and an atheist's parent might kick out a child. I
Speaker 1: would never ever co find that, But kicking them out
Speaker 1: because of a difference in religious belief I think is
Speaker 1: less likely, because so often it's this fear of contamination
Speaker 1: that the somehow non Christian child or the gay child
Speaker 1: is going to somehow contaminate or cause the rest of
Speaker 1: the house to sin, or by accepting them your sinning.
Speaker 1: Those ideas don't really work in an atheist context. You
Speaker 1: know they're not going to contaminate you to sin because
Speaker 1: we don't believe in sin. You know, that idea of
Speaker 1: I have to get this person away from me because
Speaker 1: they're bearing something unholy that is simply incoherent from an
Speaker 1: atheist context. So the idea that we would just abandon
Speaker 1: a child or kick them out for the disagreement, I
Speaker 1: think is less likely. Also, even if this were true,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean anything about the truths of these two propositions.
Speaker 1: Christianity is not more true or less true because people
Speaker 1: kick their children out of it. It's just that it's
Speaker 1: a shitty thing that people will do and use their
Speaker 1: faith to justify their horrifying parenting. Atheism would not be
Speaker 1: somehow debunked if it turns out that some atheist parents
Speaker 1: are also really shitty people and really shitty parents. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a thing, and it's I think. What we see also, though,
Speaker 1: is that the more religious a state is, the higher
Speaker 1: its youth homelessness rates are. So we see Utah with
Speaker 1: incredibly high youth homelessness rates because if you're queer, it's
Speaker 1: more likely that you are kicked out because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of very strict, high control religion in that state.
Speaker 1: So I think we actually can kind of look at
Speaker 1: it and be like, it is more likely in this context.
Speaker 1: Also doesn't Really, it's not an argument against atheism or
Speaker 1: for Christianity, even if it were to happen in the
Speaker 1: other direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think it's so counter productive for
Speaker 2: an atheist to kick out their child for exploring religion
Speaker 2: or subscribing to a religion. Actually, I think that you know,
Speaker 2: largely in an atheist household or among the atheist community,
Speaker 2: we encourage free thought, we encourage research, and we would
Speaker 2: want our children to be reading up on these things, right,
Speaker 2: We would want our children to be looking at the
Speaker 2: things that we disagree with, because we want them to
Speaker 2: find out for themselves. Don't just listen to me. That's
Speaker 2: I mean, that's how you get a religion anyway, right,
Speaker 2: by not doing the investigation. I mean, that's how that's
Speaker 2: how we've ended up with thousands of years of people
Speaker 2: subscribing to dogmas just because somebody else read that dogma
Speaker 2: for them and didn't give them an opportunity to question it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and here, you know, it's interesting because the
Speaker 1: number one way to let me think of hout to
Speaker 1: her phrase is the best way to get someone to
Speaker 1: fall for an idea is to never expose them to it, right.
Speaker 1: And so when I think about the fact that if
Speaker 1: I have never heard a flat earth argument, I might
Speaker 1: be unfamiliar with the arguments that are made, and they
Speaker 1: might sound really reasonable if I have never been exposed
Speaker 1: to them or never heard them before, I think there's
Speaker 1: a bit of almost idea inoculation that's possible. So if
Speaker 1: I never expose my child to Christian thinking and someone
Speaker 1: comes along and we're to present like, here's why Christianity
Speaker 1: is true, it can sound really reasonable. So I actively
Speaker 1: want my child to be exposed to many different schools
Speaker 1: of thought, many different religions, partially because if there are
Speaker 1: so many salesmen of these religions out there, someone will
Speaker 1: attempt to expose them to these ideologies. It's like how
Speaker 1: you tell your kids about multi level marketing schemes because
Speaker 1: somebody is going to try to recruit them, you know,
Speaker 1: and you kind of want them to be at least
Speaker 1: aware of the facts of how this really works. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I would actually say that that far be
Speaker 1: it from from trying to keep them from learning about
Speaker 1: these things. I actively believe in exposing children to as
Speaker 1: many different ways of thinking and being as possible. I
Speaker 1: think in Texas, with some of the curriculum that has
Speaker 1: been passed that brings religion into the classroom in a
Speaker 1: way that presents it as though it is true, I
Speaker 1: think that's going to backfire real hard because I think
Speaker 1: that there are going to be some parents who think
Speaker 1: this is great, They're going to send their kindergartener to school,
Speaker 1: and then there's going to be children from non Christian
Speaker 1: homes who are going to say, well, I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be really frightening because
Speaker 1: if you are religious and you're trying to keep your
Speaker 1: child believing exactly what you believe, you don't want to
Speaker 1: expose them to that idea.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not a quick process, but the questioning
Speaker 2: of these kinds of beliefs has been taking place for centuries.
Speaker 2: You know, ever since the Catholic Church schismed and Protestantism
Speaker 2: was born. It never slowed down. In fact, it's been
Speaker 2: speeding up right. Protestantism turned into multiple religions, and those
Speaker 2: multiple religions turned into multiple cults, and it keeps spreading
Speaker 2: and now we're at forty five thousand different denominations of Christianity,
Speaker 2: and you know, you just can't avoid having to answer
Speaker 2: for the things that you are professing, for the things
Speaker 2: that you subscribe to. And when you can answer for
Speaker 2: those things, you lose the credibility and legitimacy. And the
Speaker 2: funny thing that happens to me is that it happens
Speaker 2: in a very nascent stage among children. Right these same
Speaker 2: children who are challenging each other on the existence of
Speaker 2: Santa Claus are also the ones taking lessons on religion,
Speaker 2: and you know, just kind of innocently exchanging ideas and
Speaker 2: forced being forced to face the realities that they live with.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got a little Muslim friend and I
Speaker 2: really like them, but you know, people have problems with
Speaker 2: that kind of idea, and so you have to you
Speaker 2: have to investigate it anyway.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, no, no, that's good. If you're in a
Speaker 1: more act, like a very act of religious home that
Speaker 1: believes you can save people by just having them say
Speaker 1: magic words, you can sort of lead to some children
Speaker 1: traumatizing each other. I do know someone who was a
Speaker 1: friend at the time who when she was seven, I
Speaker 1: closed wouldn't let someone out of a closet at our
Speaker 1: house until they accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I would bet that that kid that
Speaker 1: was locked in the closet until they accepted Jesus Christ
Speaker 1: by this other kid had some serious backlash against religion someday,
Speaker 1: because that's a kind of traumatizing experience. And so it's
Speaker 1: almost like the harder it's pushed on little people, the
Speaker 1: more horrifying that really is, and the more likely they're
Speaker 1: going to be to question it or leave it later on,
Speaker 1: you know, speaking.
Speaker 2: Of parent child relationships when it comes to religion. We
Speaker 2: actually have a caller on the line who wants to
Speaker 2: talk about their relationship with their father, and so we're
Speaker 2: going to go to d in Iowa. D you are
Speaker 2: on the line with Jimmy and Sophia. What is going
Speaker 2: on in the great state of Iowa.
Speaker 5: It is colder than you know what out here? Hey Jimmy,
Speaker 5: Hey Sophia, Hey.
Speaker 2: Ry So what is up d you? You know, Sophia
Speaker 2: and I are here talking about family dynamics and you
Speaker 2: chimed in at the perfect time. So what's going on?
Speaker 5: So I did not grow up in a religious household,
Speaker 5: you know, like fundamentalist type religion. My mom did make
Speaker 5: me do things. I go to Sunday School, go to
Speaker 5: you know, vacation Bible school in the summertime. She she
Speaker 5: kind of wavered between sometimes going to the Methodist church
Speaker 5: and sometimes going to the Baptist Church and sometimes not
Speaker 5: going to church. So U and dad was an agnostic,
Speaker 5: and uh, you know, when when I came out in
Speaker 5: the early nineties, I knew that his objection to my
Speaker 5: sexuality was not based on religion. So I didn't have
Speaker 5: to go through that trauma, thank goodness. And I ended
Speaker 5: up being, you know, much more religious than they did.
Speaker 5: I took all of those little lessons in Sunday School
Speaker 5: and that to heart. At seven years old, I was
Speaker 5: trying to convert my playmates, you know, during recess, and
Speaker 5: very serious about it. And when I got out of
Speaker 5: the Air Force, I really threw myself into Bible study.
Speaker 5: And I remember my folks ran a boarding house in
Speaker 5: this small town we had when the railroad was still operating.
Speaker 5: The railroad workers would come in and stay overnight. They
Speaker 5: would rent rooms there and one of the borders there
Speaker 5: was a good family friend that was going to seminary.
Speaker 5: He wanted to be a Catholic priest, and I asked
Speaker 5: him one day to pray for my father because at
Speaker 5: that point I was getting very fundamentalist and I was
Speaker 5: worried about his soul. And I got in. He went
Speaker 5: and told my dad that I had asked for him
Speaker 5: to pray for him, and mom and Dad got extremely
Speaker 5: upset with me. And yeah, it was like kind of
Speaker 5: a reverse of what so many people you know, go through,
Speaker 5: getting uh, you know, getting family against them for not
Speaker 5: being religious. And this was and it just made me
Speaker 5: more determined to learn more and become more godly and
Speaker 5: closer to Jesus and things throughout my life. So the
Speaker 5: I consider myself lucky in some ways, and my heart
Speaker 5: really goes out to people who are, you know, the
Speaker 5: that the religion is used against them so ferociously and
Speaker 5: so yeah, so that's my story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I can identify with some parts of that personally,
Speaker 1: and that my mother was Church of Christ and my
Speaker 1: father was. He wouldn't like the term lapsed Catholic, but
Speaker 1: functionally it was very Catholic. If you talked about it,
Speaker 1: but didn't tend to go to Mass very often. You'd
Speaker 1: watch it on TV a lot, but neither of them
Speaker 1: really went to church as often, and yet they were
Speaker 1: very approving when we would go to church. So my
Speaker 1: sister and I kind of almost self radicalized in a way,
Speaker 1: and we would consistently go to church because it was
Speaker 1: sort of this feeling that that's the right thing to do,
Speaker 1: and my parents would pay lip service to that, and
Speaker 1: I think did believe it. It's just they didn't realize how
Speaker 1: seriously maybe we were taking that. You know, if you
Speaker 1: take your kid to Sunday school or send them to
Speaker 1: church or vacation Bible school or all the manner of
Speaker 1: free Christian childcare, there are there are a lot of those.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it'll feel like, oh, well, that's generally good,
Speaker 1: like I grew up going to it, and they won't
Speaker 1: realize how we're being told you're going to go to
Speaker 1: hell if you do not follow these rules and pray
Speaker 1: this prayer. And you know, some of the church I
Speaker 1: was in get literally baptized. And so we're going to
Speaker 1: take that very seriously and try to convert people in
Speaker 1: our lives because we're young and we love our parents,
Speaker 1: so don't we want them to be you know, safe
Speaker 1: and saved and not go to hell. Don't we want
Speaker 1: to see them later on. So it comes from this
Speaker 1: very earnest place. And it's interesting to me when folks
Speaker 1: maybe religion didn't have that impact on them when they
Speaker 1: were growing up and kind of going through the motions
Speaker 1: of going to Sunday school, but it really can. And
Speaker 1: for me it was sort of similar. I it was
Speaker 1: almost to some degree my teenage rebellion to be just
Speaker 1: so perfectly virtuous. You know, I didn't swear, I didn't drink.
Speaker 1: I didn't do any of those things that people almost
Speaker 1: see as like teenager rebellion because I looked at my
Speaker 1: parents and I was like, you're not godly enough. I
Speaker 1: can make you feel like shit by being perfect in
Speaker 1: my Christianity. Now that's a very twisted thought, but that
Speaker 1: is how I sort of my teenage rebellion was being
Speaker 1: perfect and was also like religion was used both as
Speaker 1: this thing that I had was measuring myself against and
Speaker 1: that I knew there was like power in and performing,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And there was that layer of
Speaker 1: I really thought everyone was going to go to Hell,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't figure out if my dad was actually
Speaker 1: going to go to hell or not because he was Catholic.
Speaker 1: That was always its own question, like does he have
Speaker 1: to be Protestant? I know that's its own thing. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that children take these things seriously and they
Speaker 1: love the people around them very much. So I can
Speaker 1: see why your parents were sort of offended, like, you know,
Speaker 1: what is she doing asking people to pray for me?
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I totally get where you're
Speaker 1: coming from, where you're trying to save them in the
Speaker 1: way you have been told how.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, from the people at the church where my
Speaker 5: mother was sending me. So you know, it was I know,
Speaker 5: I remember having pictures of Jesus in the house and
Speaker 5: in my bedroom when I was little. I know that
Speaker 5: Mom put those pictures up there, so it was like
Speaker 5: he was always there, you know, watching over me. And
Speaker 5: I got really, you know, I got it was like
Speaker 5: central Nebraska and a very tiny town, so it wasn't
Speaker 5: fundamentalist there. There were really no fundamentalists. I didn't get
Speaker 5: into that until I moved into a bigger city and
Speaker 5: found Assemblies of God and the non denominational and that,
Speaker 5: you know, that concern for my dad never left me
Speaker 5: until after he was gone, and I started really backing
Speaker 5: away from spiritual thinking and beliefs. Excuse me, sorry about that.
Speaker 2: So did you did you ever come out sexually in church?
Speaker 5: Not in church? I was already by the time I
Speaker 5: came out, I had sworn off organized Christianity. But I
Speaker 5: did come out to a couple of friends. They had
Speaker 5: basically been strong mentors and best friends for me in
Speaker 5: the church during the time when I was completely submerged
Speaker 5: in the Assembly of God. I lived with Christians, I
Speaker 5: worked with Christians, I worshiped with Christians. I had, you know,
Speaker 5: the leisure time with christ to everything. So I did
Speaker 5: because they would eventually they would every once in a
Speaker 5: while get in touch with me after I moved away
Speaker 5: and got married to my best friend and had turned
Speaker 5: to paganism, and they would call me and just to
Speaker 5: get in touch see how I was doing. And they would,
Speaker 5: you know, they would always tell me, you, oh, you've
Speaker 5: got to come back to the church. You got to
Speaker 5: start reading your Bible again, you got to do this,
Speaker 5: do that. I had never said anything to them, really
Speaker 5: until I just got tired of the calls and and that,
Speaker 5: and I decided it was time to be honest with them.
Speaker 5: And they would either accept it or not, and I
Speaker 5: sent them along email explaining, Hey, you remember Julie, I
Speaker 5: married her, I am the pagan, I love my life,
Speaker 5: I'm doing great. I just felt that you needed to know.
Speaker 5: And the only response was we'll pray for you, and
Speaker 5: I never heard from them again.
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know, it really sounded to me like
Speaker 2: you were starting to tell us that you actually got
Speaker 2: support from some of your Christian friends. So I'm disappointed
Speaker 2: to hear that in the end they gave you the
Speaker 2: old i'll pray for you thing. You know, A big,
Speaker 2: a big criticism that many atheists have about people who
Speaker 2: claim to be so morally superior religious people, you know,
Speaker 2: let's let's put it bluntly, is that they're so quick
Speaker 2: to turn their back on others. And you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: it sounds like you had to go through that experience,
Speaker 2: and I'm so sorry that you did. But you were
Speaker 2: able to take your best friend with you and and
Speaker 2: marry her, so I think that's great. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: always baffled me how you can be so pious and
Speaker 2: profess to be so morally superior because you have a
Speaker 2: ligned yourself with the most powerful and the most loving God,
Speaker 2: the creator of the universe. And also you can turn
Speaker 2: your back on your own children and on your neighbors,
Speaker 2: which directly conflicts with the point of view of your savior,
Speaker 2: who tells you to love your neighbors. You can hate
Speaker 2: people that don't look like you or think like you,
Speaker 2: you can hate immigrants, and you can spread hate in general.
Speaker 2: It is such such a hypocritical platform to take, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'm just so sorry that you had to
Speaker 2: deal with that, you know, if you don't mind, I'm
Speaker 2: really intrigued by your story. You know, what is what
Speaker 2: is Julie up to these days? How are you guys
Speaker 2: doing And how long has it been since you guys
Speaker 2: were able to kind of escape the clutches of your
Speaker 2: Christianity and and marry get married.
Speaker 5: Well, that is another whole story in itself, Jimmy, Okay.
Speaker 2: Well, don't feel I don't feel like you have to
Speaker 2: share something you don't want to. But I love a
Speaker 2: feel good story, and I think even just the one
Speaker 2: that you've told us shows that there's some hope out
Speaker 2: there for people that are struggling with their true identity
Speaker 2: and what they're being told they have to be, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, such a travesty, because nobody should have to
Speaker 2: tell us what we are. They should help us figure
Speaker 2: out who we are.
Speaker 1: I haven't try to put it away.
Speaker 2: Yeah go ahead, Oh no, you go ahead.
Speaker 1: I'll remember my point.
Speaker 5: Well, what I was going to say is is try
Speaker 5: to put away the fear. You know, people out there.
Speaker 5: You are so much stronger than.
Speaker 2: Even you know right now.
Speaker 5: And yeah it's hard, and you might have your heart broken,
Speaker 5: but the feeling of being free is so worth it.
Speaker 1: I love that. I feel like I want that on
Speaker 1: like a button or T shirt or something, or just
Speaker 1: a daily affirmation. Absolutely, that's wonderful. I you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about the idea of like telling someone you know who
Speaker 1: who you are, who you're supposed to be. You know,
Speaker 1: I feel like parenting is maybe a big theme today,
Speaker 1: and at least, you know, for me, I started off
Speaker 1: being like, I'm tired because I'm parenting a small person.
Speaker 1: But I remember being around I was like a teenager
Speaker 1: talking to other teenagers about I was still very much
Speaker 1: a Christian at this point. It was just some idea
Speaker 1: that a more conservative contingent I was around at the
Speaker 1: time didn't necessarily agree with. And one of the adults
Speaker 1: who was kind of around this group because you're always
Speaker 1: monitored when you're a Christian youth. It was just turned
Speaker 1: to the other parents and said, don't worry, you can
Speaker 1: reprogram them later. And there was so many different emotions
Speaker 1: in there for me, one being that it was clear
Speaker 1: they thought I was somehow being bad or contamina eating
Speaker 1: people with my ideas or with whatever I was saying,
Speaker 1: and no one was going to it wasn't bad enough
Speaker 1: they were going to necessarily say that I was wrong,
Speaker 1: But apparently it was bad enough that they didn't want
Speaker 1: their children acting like me. And that was how I
Speaker 1: found out. Was sort of just someone saying, oh, don't worry,
Speaker 1: like you can just exert your control over your own
Speaker 1: children later, and then the inherent troubling implication they think
Speaker 1: children can and should be programmed, and that exposing them
Speaker 1: to ideas is dangerous and you need to take them
Speaker 1: back home and rewire them so they can do all
Speaker 1: of the right things. Again. I thought that was really disturbing,
Speaker 1: even at the time and I was still a Christian.
Speaker 1: And also it was really hurtful because I was like,
Speaker 1: these many of these people are the ones who supposedly
Speaker 1: love me. I was part of their church, and yet
Speaker 1: I'm still being thrown out there is like it's just
Speaker 1: too different, it's just too dangerous, it's somehow too wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned that, you know, you might get your
Speaker 1: heart broken. There's a thousand little ways you get your
Speaker 1: heart broken when you're part of the church by being
Speaker 1: told you're not good enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for being willing to call. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and uh and share such an intimate part of your life.
Speaker 2: Did you have something else you wanted to say?
Speaker 5: No, that's really all. I'm glad that I got to
Speaker 5: talk to you guys. Thanks so much for taking what call.
Speaker 5: And you guys have a great risk to you Sunday.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always love when you call. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: You know. That was Uh, that was such a you know,
Speaker 2: the thing that I really like about about these call
Speaker 2: was that, you know, she didn't just stop short of
Speaker 2: kind of giving us our experience, but she or her experience. Uh.
Speaker 2: But I had a message they did? I say, she,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I did so well in saying they in
Speaker 2: the beginning, and then I said, she forgive me d
Speaker 2: but we corrected.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they you know, had a message for people, which
Speaker 2: I think is really important, you know, take take that
Speaker 2: experience to kind of turn it into something that you
Speaker 2: can help make other people's lives better. And so I
Speaker 2: thought that was really important.
Speaker 1: Personally, really appreciate older atheists as well. I think that
Speaker 1: you know, and I sort of mentioned this before, you
Speaker 1: all can't see Kelly, but we do because he's a
Speaker 1: backup post, and he was just doing his like we well,
Speaker 1: winning macho victory arms or something is adorable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just I think that in the church, I always
Speaker 1: had this like hope and desire for Sorry, I was
Speaker 1: just invaded by a dog and a toddler anyway, So
Speaker 1: if you hear stuff in the background, that's them. This
Speaker 1: desire that I would have mentorship in love by these
Speaker 1: older people in the church. And it had me constantly
Speaker 1: seeking approval and like sort of questing for it. Man,
Speaker 1: so much approval seeking, you know, in the church. And
Speaker 1: I think that's a very common experience. So to have
Speaker 1: people who are atheist elders, I suppose that I feel
Speaker 1: like of appreciate me for who I am or what
Speaker 1: I already am, and I don't have to be different
Speaker 1: for them to care about me. That is a sort
Speaker 1: of healing experience for me, and so I hope that
Speaker 1: it's productive and helpful for you know, d you to
Speaker 1: speak to us, and that they enjoy it too. But
Speaker 1: I get a lot from that as well.
Speaker 2: You know, I witnessed this a lot in family situations particularly.
Speaker 2: I have family members that never, they don't really get
Speaker 2: together a whole lot, but when they do, I see
Speaker 2: family members that are never outwardly Christian or outwardly religious
Speaker 2: all starting to be religious around each other. It's like
Speaker 2: this group think tribalist type of identity that they're sharing
Speaker 2: with each other to kind of create this commonality and
Speaker 2: to uphold this bond, which I'm sure plays into why
Speaker 2: religion is so effective, that sense of community. But you know,
Speaker 2: people in my family who were raised Catholic, who don't
Speaker 2: even go to church, are all all of a sudden
Speaker 2: around other Catholic family members and it's, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: they're they're they're joking and like saying things before dinner,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you don't ever do this ever, never, right,
Speaker 2: you haven't been to church in years, but anyway, uh So, yeah,
Speaker 2: that that approval seeking is really it's really profound, and
Speaker 2: it's it's a way that the church thrives, you know,
Speaker 2: it guilts you into being an outsider, and so you're
Speaker 2: kind of born with that right and raised with that.
Speaker 1: I also feel like, at least amongst the religious folks
Speaker 1: that I was around, there was sort of this there's
Speaker 1: pressure to live up. You're seeking approval, but you're also
Speaker 1: scared to directly ask anyone a question. So I'll know, like,
Speaker 1: you haven't been a jurdge in years, but no one's
Speaker 1: going to say, hey, when's the last time you went
Speaker 1: to church, or do you actually believe in Noah's flood
Speaker 1: literally happening, Like, no one's going to really have those
Speaker 1: conversations because they're scared of that conversation too. So it's
Speaker 1: entirely performative. There's no substance to it. It's just just
Speaker 1: about like, hey, I'm going to show you I know
Speaker 1: all the moves, and so you will think that I
Speaker 1: have all the thoughts too, like all the beliefs as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point. And you know
Speaker 2: a lot of if you and so I study ancient
Speaker 2: religions kind of on my own. I'm not an expert,
Speaker 2: but if you look at the most ancient religions, it's
Speaker 2: all about ritual. It's all about ritual. The thing that
Speaker 2: makes the God being worshiped almost come to life is
Speaker 2: the food preparation, the singing, right, the dancing, the brewing
Speaker 2: of beer.
Speaker 3: The.
Speaker 2: Acts that that bring this god into fruition. And it's
Speaker 2: it's not the God that's ever really coming into fruition,
Speaker 2: it's the people doing the things that make it seem real, right,
Speaker 2: they buy into it. And again it's that community factor.
Speaker 2: And I always found that so fascinating. People always ask,
Speaker 2: or not always ask, but scholars on the subject will say, well,
Speaker 2: the Near East religions have a whole lot in common
Speaker 2: as far as X, Y and Z, And it's like funny,
Speaker 2: those societies were all in contact with each other, the
Speaker 2: people with the same religious aspects, they all have the
Speaker 2: same trade routes, right, they all exchange the same ideas.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what we see largely. It's what
Speaker 2: we see largely. So yeah, I really feel like and
Speaker 2: to your points off you, nobody's going to talk about that.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to peel that onion back and figure out
Speaker 2: how did we get here? Right, They just want to
Speaker 2: reemphasize the fact that this is where we are, and
Speaker 2: this is who we are, and shame on you if
Speaker 2: you don't subscribe. And that D's point is where she's
Speaker 2: coming from. And I think to the criticism, criticisms that
Speaker 2: we have had about religious parents and overly religious families,
Speaker 2: critical families, that is the groundwork behind it.
Speaker 1: We've invented this cultural taboo. We're not supposed to talk
Speaker 1: about religion, politics, and people's income, right and with all
Speaker 1: of those, uh, with every taboo there there are is
Speaker 1: going to sound almost paranoid. There are I think power
Speaker 1: structures that are kept in place by us not asking
Speaker 1: whoo there's microphone, by us not asking each other about it,
Speaker 1: by us not exploring it with each other. We're trying
Speaker 1: to deepen our understanding and our knowledge. We're not supposed
Speaker 1: to ask about religion because if we actually had critical
Speaker 1: conversations more regularly, then I doubt as many people would
Speaker 1: believe what they do. You know, we're not supposed to
Speaker 1: talk about politics because you know, it might be contentious
Speaker 1: and we just have to remain pleasant at all costs,
Speaker 1: and so it's considered impolite, when in reality, that's the
Speaker 1: only way we're going to really solve anything. We're not
Speaker 1: supposed to talk about income because you know, we shouldn't
Speaker 1: be asking for more if we find out that our
Speaker 1: friend is getting paid more for the same thing, you know,
Speaker 1: the power. It just feels like we're reinforcing power structure,
Speaker 1: power structures through politeness, which is which is troubling. And
Speaker 1: I think that's maybe a huge part of people's problem
Speaker 1: with atheists in general, is that if you are an atheist,
Speaker 1: you said you are an atheist, You're out there talking
Speaker 1: about this, and you are exposing the fact that not
Speaker 1: everyone believes this, not every good person believes this, not
Speaker 1: every smart person believes this. And if you're a good, smart, moral,
Speaker 1: or virtuous person and you're an atheist, it inherently questions
Speaker 1: quite a bit that I think would not benefit the
Speaker 1: church and would not benefit those who seek to control
Speaker 1: others through spirituality. So it's you know, the jokes about
Speaker 1: like how do you know someone's an atheists, Like they'll
Speaker 1: tell you ha ha ha. It's like, yeah, because I'm
Speaker 1: going to talk about the fact that you are trying
Speaker 1: to manipulate people by believing in an powerful being that
Speaker 1: somehow you alone can interpret, Yeah, and ahead of tell
Speaker 1: you that.
Speaker 2: Hence this idea that that's perpetrated. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's the right word. Heads this idea that has taken
Speaker 2: hold that atheists are evil, that atheists are bad. Right,
Speaker 2: if you get your kids to think that early enough,
Speaker 2: they'll never engage with you, and they will never learn
Speaker 2: the things that you learn right or or take the
Speaker 2: take the steps that you have taken to become informed
Speaker 2: and become knowledgeable. And so, uh yeah, I think that
Speaker 2: it's it's kind of a cheap shot to just say, well,
Speaker 2: the people that are not like us, they're evil, they're bad,
Speaker 2: they're sinners. Well, you know, engage with somebody. Give us
Speaker 2: a call, right and see if we're actually as bad
Speaker 2: as you think we are. And by the way, folks,
Speaker 2: we do have open lines our phone number five one
Speaker 2: two nine nine nine two four to two. Please give
Speaker 2: us a call, get your call in. Don't forget about
Speaker 2: the superchat challenge today, because I actually have a really
Speaker 2: good picture going. I'm actually pretty proud of it. But
Speaker 2: so what we're doing is if we get ten super
Speaker 2: chats of five dollars each, we will draw the things
Speaker 2: that you tell us to draw in that superchat, and
Speaker 2: we'll read your superchat. So so far, we've got five
Speaker 2: out of ten superchats, but some of those superchats were
Speaker 2: more than five dollars, so we've actually got the equivalent
Speaker 2: of like nine five dollars super chats.
Speaker 1: So, uh, yeah, we've got what do I didn't even
Speaker 1: realize that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have a few more. I'm gonna read
Speaker 2: right now. So right now, it looks like I have
Speaker 2: a drawing going of a donkey Jesus and a vampire
Speaker 2: puppy and Miranda Rensburger. Remember for one year we love
Speaker 2: Miranda has said, make Donkey Jesus fight the vampire puppy. Hey,
Speaker 2: I got you, I got you, Miranda. We're gonna we're
Speaker 2: gonna have a fight between donkey Jesus. Excuse me, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Donkey Jesus and vampire puppy. Some kind of Vicky, a
Speaker 2: good friend of ours, sends five dollars, says have the
Speaker 2: vampire puppy expressing a sense of angst. The puppy is anxious.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that. I can tell you that, Uh,
Speaker 2: the puppy is sweating. The puppy is fighting, and the
Speaker 2: puppy is sweating. And I've got a great picture here
Speaker 2: that I can't wait to show people if we get
Speaker 2: the super chats. Finally, Philip Mitchell member for one year,
Speaker 2: sends us twenty dollars, Thank you so much. Philip, Donkey,
Speaker 2: Jesus and Vampire Puppy are super Scian or sayings they
Speaker 2: are doing the fusion power. I think that's what like
Speaker 2: a dragon ball Z reference or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just like, I'm not a dragon
Speaker 1: ball Z expert, although I suppose in this moment it's
Speaker 1: when they're like doing their big power up to like,
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: Know how to incorporate that, but I'm gonna look it up.
Speaker 2: For now, I've got a fight.
Speaker 1: Th conclusion lines.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh I can do that. I can do that.
Speaker 2: That'll be good. So yeah, folks, I appreciate you all
Speaker 2: participating in our super chat challenge. You know, we've got,
Speaker 2: like I said, if this goes well, I'm going to
Speaker 2: try and get everybody to make a T shirt out
Speaker 2: of it. I may even redraw it so that's a
Speaker 2: little bit neater, but I think you'll all be happy
Speaker 2: with the product I've got so far. And speaking of merch,
Speaker 2: get your talk Heathen Merch at tiny dot c c
Speaker 2: forward slash Merch ACA, and man, you know, actually that
Speaker 2: white sweatshirt looks pretty dope. I think I need to
Speaker 2: get one of those. I've got a T shirt, I've
Speaker 2: got a couple other things, a mug, but I need
Speaker 2: to get myself a white T shirt that is that
Speaker 2: is fresh, to use an old term from the nineties
Speaker 2: for which I come And so yeah, while you're getting
Speaker 2: your merch, you're going to be getting that at the
Speaker 2: ACA website. And we do have a website where we
Speaker 2: want you to know what is going on, be informed
Speaker 2: of what's happening in your community. Head to www dot
Speaker 2: Atheist Hyphencommunity dot org and you can learn about our organization,
Speaker 2: it's policies and how you can get involved and tell
Speaker 2: us what you like about our show. As well. You
Speaker 2: can email us at TV at Atheist Typhencommunity dot org
Speaker 2: and let us know your feedback on our show. Or
Speaker 2: you can leave a voicemail and just like the person
Speaker 2: that left up a voice left us a voicemail bashing
Speaker 2: his mom, why, I don't know, you should probably put
Speaker 2: that out with mom. Don't do that. But you can
Speaker 2: leave us a voicemail as well. Maybe we'll even feature
Speaker 2: you on one of our shows with that, Sophia, I'm
Speaker 2: going to jump to another call.
Speaker 1: Sounds weird.
Speaker 2: Well, actually the calls coming up, the calls coming up
Speaker 2: looks like he's in the screening room. I don't know, crew,
Speaker 2: Am I good to take this call? I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if well, no.
Speaker 1: Maybe we could do a quick I feel like there
Speaker 1: are some of the comments people have had, some of
Speaker 1: the screenshots that are specifically about you know, we've been
Speaker 1: talking a lot about family, talking a lot about like parenting.
Speaker 1: Do you want to hit some of those? Because we're
Speaker 1: both parents, and so I'm curious you want to do
Speaker 1: you guys.
Speaker 2: Do you have the Why don't you tell the crew
Speaker 2: which number you want? I did want online already. We
Speaker 2: can go jump towards one of yours.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's do number nine. Sweet oh that's when I'm
Speaker 1: smoking the bear. I love it. So the comment says,
Speaker 1: I support spanking children as a form of discipline, and frankly,
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with any religion. So I
Speaker 1: actually I'm gonna do something a little unorthodox and say,
Speaker 1: in tandem with that, could we also put up number
Speaker 1: twelve real quick because it addresses the same question, and
Speaker 1: so we can kind of compare these same day. Apparently
Speaker 1: people were really upset by me talking about this, but
Speaker 1: they said spare the rod, spoil the child allegory, so,
Speaker 1: which is just they're just like, yes, there's that, so
Speaker 1: let's I think it's really interesting that one comment says
Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with the religion, and the
Speaker 1: other one pulls up Bible verse to support the spanking
Speaker 1: of children, or that does support the spanking of children,
Speaker 1: or is often used to do so. So that's an
Speaker 1: interesting contrast to me because it almost feels like the
Speaker 1: comments are arguing with each other, like you know, from
Speaker 1: the same standpoint that they don't necessarily like that I'm
Speaker 1: saying it encourages the hitting of children, but they're sort
Speaker 1: of disproving each other, which I find kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: The other thing I would say is that if we
Speaker 1: look at the current who advocates for spanking, who advocates
Speaker 1: for harsh discipline, actually, in our culture, it does tend
Speaker 1: to be people who are more religious, particularly in the
Speaker 1: United States, who are Christians. Are you familiar with the Pearls, Jimmy.
Speaker 2: The Pearls, Yes, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Very sick and twisted Christian fundamentalist child rearing expert couple
Speaker 1: and they talk quite a bit about even the specific
Speaker 1: rods you can choose. They are part of the group
Speaker 1: that will get a big blue stick from the craft
Speaker 1: store so you can hit your kid with it and
Speaker 1: it won't leave marks, so you know you won't be
Speaker 1: called CPS, won't be called on you if you do that,
Speaker 1: because you need to break their will. There are big
Speaker 1: advocates of blanket training. Do you know what blanket training is.
Speaker 2: Jimmy, Uh, not quite nice from your day.
Speaker 1: By telling you about all this stuff. So blanket training
Speaker 1: is when you take a one year old, So it
Speaker 1: usually starts about one year old, so before children can
Speaker 1: really understand cause and effect in a discipline way, and
Speaker 1: you put them on a blanket and then you have
Speaker 1: toys and other things to lure them off the blanket,
Speaker 1: but you tell them not to leave the blanket and
Speaker 1: you hit them if they do. And so what you're
Speaker 1: doing is teaching them to obey you beyond their own desires.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what you It doesn't matter the fact
Speaker 1: that I'm actively trying to lure you out with toys
Speaker 1: that I know you like, I'm going to hit you
Speaker 1: if you go for them. All these things teach is
Speaker 1: that your parent is not safe. Is that this is
Speaker 1: a person who's going to try to trick you into
Speaker 1: disobedience and then punish you for that same disobedience. Does
Speaker 1: that sound like someone we know, perhaps someone from an
Speaker 1: ancient book that some people worship. It's really disgusting. And
Speaker 1: so when I'm thinking about the people who are advocates
Speaker 1: for this kind of parenting, they're pretty universally religious. I
Speaker 1: may not be entirely correct, write in let me know,
Speaker 1: are there atheist parenting experts who advocate for this kind
Speaker 1: of abuse that teaches a child not to trust themselves
Speaker 1: and to assume that their parents are always looking out
Speaker 1: to find them doing something wrong. Because that's really what
Speaker 1: this is. It's because they think they're going to somehow
Speaker 1: make an ungodly child if they let that child have
Speaker 1: an opinion or an idea, or pursue things they love
Speaker 1: on their own, and maybe by their rules they will be.
Speaker 1: But what you do end up getting in this instance
Speaker 1: is a child who is yeah and yeah, they talk
Speaker 1: about breaking their will, they're breaking their spirit. You know,
Speaker 1: it's disgusting, but that is soonamental is parenting.
Speaker 2: Now, this idea that it has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: any religion is just so false, and it's actually a
Speaker 2: fundamental part of religions, especially if you look in the
Speaker 2: Bible and it tells you how to discipline your children
Speaker 2: or that you can take really harsh practices against them.
Speaker 2: You know, where do people think that humanity, that our
Speaker 2: societies that exist today get their information. It's over hundreds,
Speaker 2: maybe thousands of years of repetition, repetition from practices that
Speaker 2: nobody ever questioned. It's just what you did. I mean,
Speaker 2: does anybody ever ask themselves? Why is it then that
Speaker 2: when we meet with family for holidays we have a
Speaker 2: big meal? Why? Why why do we do that? What if?
Speaker 2: It is a link all the way back to the
Speaker 2: most ancient religions and where everybody was taking the time
Speaker 2: to prepare food. The communities were getting together to prepare
Speaker 2: food to attract the gods to their temples or out
Speaker 2: of their temples, right, I mean, food was such a
Speaker 2: big part of religious practice, and religion was the organizing
Speaker 2: factor of society. That fast forward many many generations and
Speaker 2: it's just now how we operate and disciplining children is
Speaker 2: no different. You know, religions that treat you to be
Speaker 2: harsh and teach respect and hey, in line with the
Speaker 2: Ten Commandments and the intro that you gave Sophia, honor
Speaker 2: thy mother and father. That's exactly what we're seeing, right,
Speaker 2: And it doesn't leave any room for questioning whether or
Speaker 2: not you should honor your parents if they're horrible people, right,
Speaker 2: and there are many horrible parents, just like you've explained,
Speaker 2: And a lot of this behavior is rooted in religion,
Speaker 2: and that's why it's so important to dive into where
Speaker 2: the stuff comes from and question how we behave and
Speaker 2: why and what we believe and why and get to
Speaker 2: the bottom of it so we can make positive changes.
Speaker 1: So yeah, about children's rights. So I could go on
Speaker 1: all days.
Speaker 2: I know, I know you could. I know you could.
Speaker 2: I think we all could. I know that our our,
Speaker 2: our lovely, our wonderful beloved backup post, Kelly is cringing
Speaker 2: behind the scenes right now because he's got such uh
Speaker 2: you know, just such a He's had a tough story
Speaker 2: of his own, which maybe we could talk about in
Speaker 2: the in the after show. Uh, considering this show is
Speaker 2: so has so much to do with family, family values,
Speaker 2: if you will today, but without further ado, I want
Speaker 2: to bring up our next caller. Okay, we have Omar
Speaker 2: calling from Texas. Omar, the subject says, atheist views on
Speaker 2: trans and lbt plus issues. Okay, I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know if there's a such thing as an atheist view
Speaker 2: on lgbt Q plus. I think that, you know, atheists
Speaker 2: are just people that don't accept the God beliefs that
Speaker 2: they're presented with. Thus far, a lot of atheists, in
Speaker 2: my experience, are free thinkers. They value human rights and
Speaker 2: therefore supportive of the lgbt Q plus community. On that note, though, Omar,
Speaker 2: please feel free and and ask your question.
Speaker 6: Hey, I Sophia, it's Omar calling live from the Free
Speaker 6: Thought Library in the atheist community of Austin.
Speaker 1: In Austin, I wondered if this was this is the
Speaker 1: Omar I know? Hello, Omar, Hello, Hello.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just figured I would call and didn't put
Speaker 6: it maybe the clearest way I could. But yeah, I
Speaker 6: have noticed there has been a lot of I guess atheists, Uh,
Speaker 6: you know, we'd become atheist and then a certain group
Speaker 6: just like try to rationalize like hatred for trans people
Speaker 6: or trans issues or not accepting trans people as well
Speaker 6: as other maybe not scientific beliefs, and I just kind
Speaker 6: of wonder, like, how did that happen? I wanted to
Speaker 6: get you guys' thoughts on that kind of stuff. The
Speaker 6: one that was particularly on my mind is just like
Speaker 6: being so anti LGBT in terms of trans issues, or
Speaker 6: not even accepting that trans people are real people.
Speaker 1: Clarify. Is it kind of like you're wondering why without religion,
Speaker 1: Like if somebody became atheist and they still are transphobic,
Speaker 1: is that the question?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 6: Sometimes I feel like people they don't have an opinion
Speaker 6: on it, but they just go in on that. They
Speaker 6: kind of accept it almost uncritically. So yeah, well what
Speaker 6: do you all think of that?
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I think that leaving religion
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you leave bigotry, right, Like, I think that
Speaker 1: there are still ways in which I've definitely seen atheists,
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to trans issues, feel like they
Speaker 1: can make some sort of biological argument, and really it's
Speaker 1: that they still have these like transphobic ideas and they
Speaker 1: just haven't really dealt with them. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting because there is, as Jimmy said, there's no
Speaker 1: like atheist view of sexuality. Right. Atheists have a lot
Speaker 1: of different opinions on pretty much everything. The only thing
Speaker 1: that we can all say is that we do not
Speaker 1: believe that there is a God. I personally look at
Speaker 1: it and think about, you know, as an atheist, I've
Speaker 1: had to work so much harder than I did when
Speaker 1: I was religious to be rigorous about like what do
Speaker 1: I actually believe is moral? What do I believe is right?
Speaker 1: And so I started re examining my own beliefs about
Speaker 1: because I was pretty bigoted as a Christian, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to put that out there, and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: you know, there are still ways in which I'm you know,
Speaker 1: anyone who says that they're just like the most open
Speaker 1: minded and they have no bigotries whatsoever, they're just not
Speaker 1: examining themselves and trying to root it out. It's kind
Speaker 1: of my belief there's still ways I can improve. I'm
Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure about that. But I started looking
Speaker 1: at you know, is the stuff that I was saying wrong?
Speaker 1: Is it wrong? What was I basing that on? What
Speaker 1: was I you know, what was I actually what was
Speaker 1: I responding to? And now that I've left religion, if
Speaker 1: I continue to believe that somehow it's wrong to be gay,
Speaker 1: or wrong to be trans, or the trans people don't
Speaker 1: really exist, or like their experiences that are legitimate. What
Speaker 1: am I basing that on. I have so much more
Speaker 1: freedom now that I have left religion to look at
Speaker 1: it and be like, these are people who are finding
Speaker 1: that they are happiest living a particular way. This is
Speaker 1: who they are. I don't have some magical supreme authority
Speaker 1: to say that they're not. And why would I want
Speaker 1: them to suffer so that they can fit into an
Speaker 1: imagined binary that I only believed because I was told
Speaker 1: I should when I was a religious person. Like that
Speaker 1: starts to feel very ridiculous for me personally after leaving religion.
Speaker 1: So I guess while I would say all that almost
Speaker 1: like sort of rambling to say, I think that even
Speaker 1: though there isn't like here, here is the atheist thought,
Speaker 1: I look at it and I'm like, I can see
Speaker 1: how my thought process changed when I left religion because
Speaker 1: I started to just challenge myself to be like, not
Speaker 1: kind of such a little shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when it comes to these beliefs that we
Speaker 2: have when we are religious, I want to harken back
Speaker 2: to the point that Sophia made about the power structures.
Speaker 2: You know, when you're in religion, the bigotry toward people
Speaker 2: unlike yourselves is there in order to protect the power structure,
Speaker 2: because if you accept those people that are different from
Speaker 2: what you're being taught, then the entire power structure is
Speaker 2: vulnerable to crumbling. You have to teach that homosexuals and
Speaker 2: transgender people are not what God intended in order for
Speaker 2: their intent to manifest itself in the minds of others
Speaker 2: who they're trying to draw their support and they're financing from.
Speaker 2: Once you go, once you turn your back on that,
Speaker 2: or once you change course, you'll lose your credibility as
Speaker 2: far as being the power structure that is saying these
Speaker 2: hateful and hurtful things, because then maybe people say, well,
Speaker 2: what else are they wrong about? And maybe I don't
Speaker 2: even need to go there or give them money anymore,
Speaker 2: and then that kind of thing could be so ingrained.
Speaker 2: And you know, coming out of religion and still having
Speaker 2: a bigotry towards transgender and LGBTQ plus people is a
Speaker 2: lot like realizing I shouldn't say it's a lot like
Speaker 2: because still that hatred is so much and so far
Speaker 2: more destructive toward those people. But I want to liken
Speaker 2: it to the thing that a lot of people experience
Speaker 2: when they come out of their religion. They still hold
Speaker 2: on to, like the belief in hell, for example, because
Speaker 2: it's so freaking scary. It's the thing that has probably
Speaker 2: kept them in their religion the most. And then they
Speaker 2: realize that they've got questions about their religion, and so
Speaker 2: they start moving away from their religion, and almost always
Speaker 2: the last thing to go is the belief in hell.
Speaker 2: They could call themselves an atheist and still be afraid
Speaker 2: of Hell because they've spent a lifetime being so freight
Speaker 2: And if you spend a lifetime hating certain people, it
Speaker 2: might take some time. It might take some time to
Speaker 2: get over that hatred. On the other hand, though, for
Speaker 2: the people that do get over that, I would say
Speaker 2: that once you do start questioning that power structure, you
Speaker 2: realize the lack of validity that they have with the
Speaker 2: claims that they make, you realize, you know, these people
Speaker 2: are just people, right. LGBTQ plus people are people having
Speaker 2: a human experience trying to find themselves, just like I'm
Speaker 2: trying to do, trying to leave this religion that has
Speaker 2: taught me so many things that I disagree with and
Speaker 2: that I'm not okay with, And when you step out
Speaker 2: of that, you open your eyes to the fact that
Speaker 2: we are all individuals you can't help but have that
Speaker 2: same sympathy for the LGBTQ plus community. And I think
Speaker 2: that that is likely why so many atheists who also
Speaker 2: consider themselves free thinkers have such sympathy or have such
Speaker 2: empathy for those people. And so that's my thoughts. Those
Speaker 2: are my thoughts on that.
Speaker 6: Omar, what say you Now, I agree with you on
Speaker 6: the I do. Just there's one thing I've noticed is
Speaker 6: a lot of people just kind of get into this
Speaker 6: idea of like trying to find a rational belief and oh,
Speaker 6: I've got out of religion, now I want to be rational,
Speaker 6: and they kind of are contrarians on a lot of things.
Speaker 6: So they'll probably look into like, oh, let me look
Speaker 6: at these anti trans arguments or or maybe even go
Speaker 6: into other kind of conspiracies and then like rationalize, oh, well,
Speaker 6: I was smart enough to get out of religion, now
Speaker 6: now I'm smart enough to believe this stuff. And then
Speaker 6: they get into all this other hatred and bigotry, or
Speaker 6: at least that's what I have noticed, well, like, well
Speaker 6: it's right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Omar, Omar, I want to I want to challenge on
Speaker 2: one thing. And don't get me wrong, glad that you
Speaker 2: made the switch, and glad that you progressed what i'll
Speaker 2: call progression out of religion and into the realm of
Speaker 2: free thinking. But just because somebody is religious does not
Speaker 2: mean that they're not smart, right, And so I want
Speaker 2: to make that I want to make that point there.
Speaker 2: You know, you may you say you were smart enough
Speaker 2: or people are smart enough to get out of religion,
Speaker 2: but some people, you know, I look at religion as
Speaker 2: a form of survival. I look at it as an indoctrination.
Speaker 2: First of all, they are when people are helpless and young,
Speaker 2: usually they are told who they are and what they
Speaker 2: need to think, not how to think. And that is
Speaker 2: a disastrous way to let your your or have your brain,
Speaker 2: your your thought processes form. So not only that, but
Speaker 2: then they risk throwing away all of their security, their
Speaker 2: sense of community. Their family may be, funding for college,
Speaker 2: may be a place to live, food on the table,
Speaker 2: a shelter over their head. If they are to challenge
Speaker 2: those views that they have been instilled with. And so
Speaker 2: while they may be smart. They also need to take
Speaker 2: action to ensure their own survivability, to ensure their own
Speaker 2: comfort in life. There many people that call us from
Speaker 2: Muslim countries that say, you know, I'm not a believer,
Speaker 2: but there's nothing I can do. In our advice to
Speaker 2: them a lot of times is hey, look, don't do
Speaker 2: anything that's going to put you in danger, because in
Speaker 2: those countries, if you come out as an atheist, you
Speaker 2: could be stoned to death, you could be imprisoned, it
Speaker 2: could be hanged, and so we don't want to see
Speaker 2: that happen, right. We don't want to also, though, give
Speaker 2: the impression that we think they're not smart. And I
Speaker 2: don't think that you mean that maliciously, but I think
Speaker 2: that that's a good opportunity to step in and say,
Speaker 2: you know, let's be a little bit sympathetic to people
Speaker 2: who don't have the luxuries that we have had or
Speaker 2: the awakenings that we've had.
Speaker 1: I think I might want to throw out there. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's exactly what Omar was meaning. Okay,
Speaker 1: connected for mang Omar, I think that at least how
Speaker 1: I interpreted that was sort of and I agree with
Speaker 1: everything you said there about like, I'm not smarter now
Speaker 1: than I was before when I was religious. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just I was exposed to a very different
Speaker 1: I would say, set of facts, but I was given, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of twisted information. But I think
Speaker 1: that there is a sort of I would call it,
Speaker 1: like a dude bro atheist who does leave religion and
Speaker 1: take the attitude that they are now smarter and so
Speaker 1: they're going to be contrarian about everything. And so I
Speaker 1: think about people who are secular and are maybe anti
Speaker 1: trans are arguing, for how to put it, they perceive
Speaker 1: cultural pressure whether they are correct or not to believe
Speaker 1: a certain way. So they've just decided they're going to
Speaker 1: reject everything, so if they feel that they are supposed
Speaker 1: to be these are people who complain a lot about
Speaker 1: like political correctness. Right. It's a very terminally online kind
Speaker 1: of person, the online dude bro, the atheist dude bro.
Speaker 1: I guess, which I realize is gender language is just
Speaker 1: I feel like I've often run into folks who are
Speaker 1: men who kind of do this that. Well, I'm an
Speaker 1: atheist because I'm a smart freethinker. But I'm also a
Speaker 1: smart freethinker, so I don't buy into the transagenda. Like,
Speaker 1: there are people who hold these two simultaneous beliefs who
Speaker 1: do exist in atheist spaces online, and it's unfortunate, And
Speaker 1: I would argue that those are people who are they're
Speaker 1: not actually taking in evidence about how like that trans
Speaker 1: people do in fact exist. They're not listening to people's
Speaker 1: experiences of what it's like to live as a transperson.
Speaker 1: They're just kind of trying to do the It's similar
Speaker 1: to the Ben Shapiro facts are smarter than your feeling style.
Speaker 1: The facts are more important than your feeling style thing.
Speaker 1: I believe that it's a way for them to try
Speaker 1: to cover up any hurt, to never be vulnerable because
Speaker 1: they can just be the super smart dude in every
Speaker 1: situation and they don't have feelings, They just have logic
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So at least that's how I interpreted it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just to throw that out there, that that
Speaker 1: does exist, and I do see it, and I find
Speaker 1: it an interesting archetype as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was more what I was referring to, Sophia.
Speaker 6: I don't I think people have their own personal journeys
Speaker 6: on their reasons that they're still believers or they're not.
Speaker 6: But I do think there are some kind of people
Speaker 6: who just think take it as like, well, I figured
Speaker 6: this out, so I'm smarter than other people because I
Speaker 6: can figure out other things. That is kind of contrarian too.
Speaker 6: What the popular notion of what to believe.
Speaker 1: Is, Yeah, I feel like there's I take that.
Speaker 6: Down like not to like to like keep getting atheists
Speaker 6: who believe the earth is what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of this people who are more married
Speaker 1: to being contrarian than they are actually seeking what is
Speaker 1: most true, and they're these kneeture contrarian reactions are potentially
Speaker 1: obvious skating truth rather than actually helping them find it.
Speaker 1: It sort of goes with kind of what I feel
Speaker 1: like we say often is just that that not all
Speaker 1: atheists agree or say the same things, or believe the
Speaker 1: same things, and that in our community with the ACA,
Speaker 1: I feel very fortunate that you know, people have met
Speaker 1: are affirming and wonderful. But I also feel like those
Speaker 1: are people who select to be part of a community
Speaker 1: together where they may be challenged, where they actually are
Speaker 1: going to have to think about what they're saying. And
Speaker 1: I think that yeah, when people have some of these
Speaker 1: like ideas of well atheists, you know, these atheists are
Speaker 1: jerks too, like they're they're out there and a lot
Speaker 1: of them can suck. But I think they're not pursuing
Speaker 1: like factuality. I don't think they're leaving religion because they
Speaker 1: became convinced it was untrue. I think sometimes they're leaving
Speaker 1: it because they just want to be contrary and that
Speaker 1: makes them feel big, and so they'll be contrary about
Speaker 1: what they view as the transagenda, or they'll join the manisphere,
Speaker 1: you know, or be part of that space because that
Speaker 1: also makes them feel big. Yeah. I think that these
Speaker 1: are the atheists who sometimes will convert back to a
Speaker 1: religion and because it was never really like a well
Speaker 1: founded atheism to begin with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Omar, sorry about that. I thought what I was
Speaker 2: hearing from you was maybe a misspeak. Uh, not that
Speaker 2: you necessarily thought that, but that uh, you were kind
Speaker 2: of just highlighting that as a as a way to
Speaker 2: think about it and or or maybe something that comes
Speaker 2: from other people, and that that's a good opportunity to
Speaker 2: get in there and dispel these kind of rumors that
Speaker 2: that atheists quote unquote think like this right when we
Speaker 2: don't write I don't think, for example, that uh, you know,
Speaker 2: religion is a mental littleness. I don't think that people
Speaker 2: are stupid because uh, they believe in religion. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: Omar not necessarily directed toward you, but I really appreciate
Speaker 2: you bringing that up.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for technical Thank you.
Speaker 2: Do I know Omar? You said you know Omar?
Speaker 1: Do you might have met Omar? I don't know, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: full disclosure Christmas. He's a good friend. Oh good was
Speaker 1: he on the I'm like, that's not one of our
Speaker 1: thanks but yeah, so.
Speaker 2: Do you know if he went to the back cruise,
Speaker 2: I feel like I did beat him.
Speaker 1: I don't know, he probably did, but I was. I
Speaker 1: was about to give for giving birth on the back
Speaker 1: cruise this year, So.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see you this year. Hey, you know, we
Speaker 2: have eight months until the back cru so viewers, you
Speaker 2: could start planning now. I know that many of us are,
Speaker 2: and I can't wait. I'm already looking at the calendar
Speaker 2: to see, uh you know, when it's going to be
Speaker 2: and where I'm going to stay and what have you.
Speaker 2: But on that note, after that wonderful call, we are
Speaker 2: going to go to the top five patrons. Sophia, would
Speaker 2: you mind doing the.
Speaker 1: Honors yes, okay, So our top five patrons. Number one
Speaker 1: we have oops All Singularity, which is amazing. Number two
Speaker 1: we have Dingleberry Jackson. Number three Kleevi Helvetti, which I
Speaker 1: think I said right because I was like, I just
Speaker 1: got to go into it. I can't just like think
Speaker 1: about how I'm going to say it. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: Number four Brian Zupkey, which I'm thinking is going to
Speaker 1: be said upkey on zoop. Well we go with that.
Speaker 1: Number five I have Ja Calton and then an honorable
Speaker 1: mention to Moldrid d Malcontent, which is an amazing name.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought that too before. When I pulled up
Speaker 2: the script for the first time, I was like, that
Speaker 2: is dope. That's awesome.
Speaker 1: You are Dope, mister Malcontent or miss mal Content, individual
Speaker 1: malcontent anyway, Yes, love it amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, and thank you to everybody who gives
Speaker 2: to us on Patreon. If you want to have your
Speaker 2: name read on the air, please consider supporting us at
Speaker 2: tiny dot cc, forward slash, Patreon THH And on that note,
Speaker 2: we have started recording the talk Hethen Discord after show
Speaker 2: for all levels of paid patrons, So if you go
Speaker 2: on to Patreon, you become a member. You can hear
Speaker 2: our after show, which I will be on today on Discord,
Speaker 2: and Sophia, you'll be joining us, I understand excellent, and
Speaker 2: our man Kelly backstage is going to be joining us
Speaker 2: as well. So if you want more content and a
Speaker 2: more informal look, and here's some of our conversations that
Speaker 2: we have without a script, join us. Join us on
Speaker 2: Patreon today and definitely chime in today to the Discord
Speaker 2: after show. We have a couple of super chats that
Speaker 2: I want to get to. All right, so Nero sends
Speaker 2: us five dollars. If your child can't learn by verbal education,
Speaker 2: spanking communicates even less and is functionally useless. If you can,
Speaker 2: spanking is unnecessary. Thank you, Yeah, krudos, I mean I
Speaker 2: can't I have I have nothing to say except I agreeheartily.
Speaker 2: Some kind of Dicky is back for more. He gave
Speaker 2: us ten more dollars. If your morality is based on
Speaker 2: your religion, then your decision to beat your child is
Speaker 2: based on your religion, whether you're beating your child with
Speaker 2: a Bible or a stick. Very good point. You know,
Speaker 2: how do you know? You argue, well, I get my
Speaker 2: morals from God and then you abuse your kids or
Speaker 2: others and hate your hate people, you must derive that
Speaker 2: from this, this all loving, all powerful source.
Speaker 1: Right. I thought that was really good. Yeah. I've never
Speaker 1: met a parent who spanks children that isn't doing it
Speaker 1: out of fear. And if your morality is based on God,
Speaker 1: and God is teaching you to act out of fear,
Speaker 1: then your God is a fearful and small person or
Speaker 1: being rather yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And on that note, you know, we did only
Speaker 2: receive nine out of the ten super chats, but we
Speaker 2: received the more than the fifty dollars we were looking for.
Speaker 2: And so on that note, even though we didn't get ten,
Speaker 2: I'm going to show my drawing. Okay, so folks, I
Speaker 2: want you to not be too critical.
Speaker 1: So what we had, right, and no critical everyone criticize
Speaker 1: it so hard.
Speaker 2: Oh we got we got a full screenshot, all right.
Speaker 2: So we were asked for a donkey Jesus with a tail,
Speaker 2: snout and ears to fight a vampire puppy while the
Speaker 2: puppy was showing signs of angst and having some kind
Speaker 2: of power, you know, powerful background. I'm going to bring
Speaker 2: this up and this is going to end up on
Speaker 2: a T shirt, someday. So there's amazing. There's Jesus, Donkey Jesus.
Speaker 2: The puppy is sweating angst. He's got nunchucks. I mean
Speaker 2: that's kind of a dog. I don't know if that's
Speaker 2: quite a puppy, but you know, the puppy Jesus is
Speaker 2: in like a karate stance. You see the power behind them.
Speaker 2: And I started to spell challenge wrong forgive me super
Speaker 2: Chat challenge one twelve twenty five. And so puppy puppy, vampire,
Speaker 2: vampire fangs, He's got his nunchucks, he's fighting donkey Jesus.
Speaker 2: They're getting into it all right. And so I hope
Speaker 2: everybody enjoyed that drawing.
Speaker 1: I so good.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed.
Speaker 1: I was like, be so critical. I wanted to tease you,
Speaker 1: but it's actually really good.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, dang, well, maybe I'll redo it. Maybe
Speaker 2: I'll redo it a little bit, and I could like
Speaker 2: maybe get some support on making that one of our
Speaker 2: pieces of merch. But yeah, so, folks, that is going
Speaker 2: to do it for today. I want to thank Kelly
Speaker 2: for helping us out. Kelly popped up. Yeah, Kelly, what
Speaker 2: is up?
Speaker 3: Dude?
Speaker 2: Did you have any comments you wanted to make about
Speaker 2: today's callers. Oh muted, you did it again. You did
Speaker 2: it again.
Speaker 4: I totally did I pulled it, Johnny. I don't have
Speaker 4: anything to say about the callers, but I do want
Speaker 4: to say that I totally agree with Sophia. There's no
Speaker 4: reason to spank your children. I have two adult children
Speaker 4: that I never spanked while I was raising them, and
Speaker 4: they both turned into wonderful adults. So it's to me
Speaker 4: that's proof you don't have to spank your children. So yeah, yeah, Kelly.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you being with us today and reading the
Speaker 2: question of the week, going through that challenge with us.
Speaker 2: The prompt for this week is sin is to God
Speaker 2: as what is to what? Make sure that you reply
Speaker 2: in the comments to this video and tune in at
Speaker 2: the beginning of next week's episode to hear all our
Speaker 2: top three answers. And with that, I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: the crew to give us some lover rings. Yes, they're
Speaker 2: coming from Kelly's tie them from Kelly Spot. So, folks,
Speaker 2: if you do not believe, remember this is your community
Speaker 2: and we appreciate you being here. But if you do believe,
Speaker 2: just know that we do not hate you.
Speaker 1: We're just not convinced.
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