Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What what's going to happen? I'll take.
Speaker 3: What's up everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm here with my co host that of just a
Speaker 2: mail bag, we thought we'd do a Friday night symbolic
Speaker 2: or symbolism pot luck where we're just taking symbols and
Speaker 2: we're throwing them out to you and seeing what you
Speaker 2: can do with them, and we're going back and forth
Speaker 2: on it. So, uh Nick, go ahead and tell them
Speaker 2: what you got coming up, what you got where they
Speaker 2: can find you and everything else?
Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, the Occult Rejects. You can find that
Speaker 1: on all major podcasts and then we also on what
Speaker 1: else will uh bit shoot, rumble and YouTube. One thing
Speaker 1: I will mention though, also is that you might actually
Speaker 1: find more stuff on the audio, so that's just something
Speaker 1: you know, or maybe find things released earlier on audio.
Speaker 1: So definitely check out the audio for people that are
Speaker 1: constantly watching YouTube. And if you, oh, you actually and
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, let me actually promote the stickers
Speaker 1: and the shirts too. I forget about that.
Speaker 4: We got free stickers. We got this going this beauty
Speaker 4: right here. Got that.
Speaker 1: If you want the free stickers, just email me at
Speaker 1: DM me on Twitter or Instagram and I will send
Speaker 1: those out. If you have any stories for Headless for
Speaker 1: his mail bag, include your address, I'll send it over
Speaker 1: to me and I'll send you stickers as well. We
Speaker 1: also got T shirts now, same image right there that
Speaker 1: I showed the girl with the ceashell, you got that.
Speaker 1: And we do have another image the silent Rainbow that
Speaker 1: I have posted a lot. We got those on black
Speaker 1: T shirts medium large and extra largest, twenty five hours shipped,
Speaker 1: and I'll have those shirts at the events that we're
Speaker 1: going to. We do have a bunch of events. I'll
Speaker 1: just I have that posted on my on my end.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a couple events that will be going
Speaker 1: to in October and November. And uh the shirts are
Speaker 1: basically to help pay for like the Airbnb and the
Speaker 1: traveling because I will be traveling and having them stay places.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, the shirt will actually help promote us
Speaker 1: getting to these events too if you buy any. So yeah,
Speaker 1: check out the show notes if you want to see
Speaker 1: where the events will be. And uh yeah, dm me
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram or email me if you want any
Speaker 1: shirts of stickers. Thank you And if you buy a shirt,
Speaker 1: I've thrown some stickers as well.
Speaker 2: Plus, that shirt is a great conversation starter if you
Speaker 2: want to start to explain to people a little bit
Speaker 2: of the optic eye symbolism. That.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is interesting. I do forget to mention that
Speaker 4: the one went to see shaw.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a it is a depiction of
Speaker 1: like kind of like the birth of Venus, obviously of
Speaker 1: the inside the eyeball. So I mean it could be
Speaker 1: a good conversation start like my man saying right here,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, oh, you know what, this is artistic
Speaker 1: depiction of the inside of the eye, and you'd be like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that, And it makes so much sense with
Speaker 2: aphrodite too. Yeah, yeah, you desire what you see. It's
Speaker 2: it's the perfect symbol for it.
Speaker 1: Hey, well that's why I even got that from I'm
Speaker 1: totally honest, you know, took that from Empedicalles when he
Speaker 1: talked about aphrodite being the flame dancing in the back
Speaker 1: of your eye, you know, And I was like, that's
Speaker 1: why I throw aphrodite in the or supposed to be.
Speaker 2: Well, all those medieval artists that kept reproducing the Birth
Speaker 2: of Venus, they were all drawing from that Empedocles reference
Speaker 2: when they were making it seem like an eyeball, like
Speaker 2: the inside of an eyeball, inside that shell, you know.
Speaker 2: So there's that sort of contrast between what you desire
Speaker 2: and what you see that I think that a lot
Speaker 2: of these people were playing off of, especially what we
Speaker 2: know of is the most popular version of the Birth
Speaker 2: of Venus. It was almost drawn in two D, almost
Speaker 2: like a uh Egyptian style, right, because as he was
Speaker 2: trying to show, hey, this this thing that you're looking at,
Speaker 2: this is an object of your desire. It's not the
Speaker 2: totality of it.
Speaker 1: It would be in a bit of a different sort
Speaker 1: of perspective, a boy making some noises over there.
Speaker 4: This is the first time I've heard it, cat buddy.
Speaker 2: He doesn't usually nail at me, but I guess this
Speaker 2: time he wanted some petance. All right, So what do
Speaker 2: we have first on deck?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Mine is I do?
Speaker 1: This was an interesting one, and I even find it interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll get into it, but like even Wikipedia
Speaker 1: acknowledges this in a certain way that I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that is that is very interesting. So what you have
Speaker 1: up on the screen is the one of the uh
Speaker 1: the Seal of Suleiman, which eventually turns into the Seal
Speaker 1: of Solomon. Origins and first appearance, the Seal of Sulaiman
Speaker 1: is often identified with the six pointed star, but in
Speaker 1: Arabic tradition also drawn as a hexagram with chronic inscriptions,
Speaker 1: talismanic squares, or angelic names. It emerged in the early
Speaker 1: Islamic mysticism and magical sciences, while its form echoes older
Speaker 1: near Eastern and Jewish traditions. It becomes distinctly Arabic and
Speaker 1: Islamic from around the ninth and tenth centuries, when it
Speaker 1: is first recorded in magic and magical and alchemical texts.
Speaker 1: The name comes the prophet Soliman or Solomon Solomon reverreed
Speaker 1: in Islam as a prophet king given command over jin
Speaker 1: and nature by God. His seal became a mystical emblem
Speaker 1: of cosmic authority, adopted by occultists, sufis, and talisman makers.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna switch over to another image of Oops, skip ahead.
Speaker 1: This even came up as it, which I thought was
Speaker 1: really interesting because I'm pretty sure Headless has actually shown
Speaker 1: something very similar to this a few times on the show.
Speaker 1: I even had asked him, did you cover this because
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure. I'm like, did I forget
Speaker 1: because this image looks so fucking familiar, So and he
Speaker 1: was like, no, I haven't. And I was like all right,
Speaker 1: good because I was just like looking at it, like okay,
Speaker 1: I've seen this.
Speaker 2: So have you ever heard of emoji theory? No?
Speaker 1: Oh, no, that might be I heard it. May possibly
Speaker 1: that might be what Tyrone has talked about. Maybe maybe
Speaker 1: someone tell me what you what is this emoji theory.
Speaker 2: Emoji theory states that all of the emojis you have
Speaker 2: in your emoji keyboard come from the Solomonic magic. So
Speaker 2: this one right here would be the guy with the
Speaker 2: two eyes that are like points, and then he's got
Speaker 2: the face like uh oh, something's happening, and so he's
Speaker 2: got the straight mouth across and so you know, the
Speaker 2: secret of Solomon is like the oops.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 4: Okay where it was seen and used.
Speaker 1: It's been seen in medieval Arabic Grimoire's that Sham's al
Speaker 1: Marie Book of the Sun of Noses the thirteenth century
Speaker 1: then includes numerous seals and sigils attributed to Soliman, and
Speaker 1: these often combined the hexagram chronic verses and magic squares
Speaker 1: the architecture and manuscripts. Seals of Soliman were inscribed on
Speaker 1: mosque walls, emulets, and chronic bindings in medieval Islamic world,
Speaker 1: especially in Cairo and Baghdad Ottoman Palasman's fifteenth to seventeenth century,
Speaker 1: this seal became a dominant tropy. I always fucked that
Speaker 1: word hope emblem often printed on banners, weapons and charms
Speaker 1: to ensure divine victory. In North Africa, Berber and mag
Speaker 1: Maghrebi amulets often have these hexagrams inscribed with the names
Speaker 1: of Allah and chronic verses as protective sigils, meaning in
Speaker 1: medieval usage, this seal carried, you know, layered significances. Soliman
Speaker 1: used it for divine He used it to command the
Speaker 1: gin by God's will. His seal symbolized power over hidden
Speaker 1: forces and mastery of the unseen. It was used for
Speaker 1: our protection as a talisman against the evil eye, illness,
Speaker 1: and malevolent spirits. Is In Islamic alchemy, the hexagram represented
Speaker 1: the union of fire and water, male and female, microcosm
Speaker 1: and macrocosm. There's another one we got up there. Certain
Speaker 1: Sufi orders use the seal and meditative diagrams linking into
Speaker 1: geometry to divine unity and balance. How it's used today
Speaker 1: in spiritual practices and parts of North Africa and South Asia.
Speaker 1: Amulates with the Seal of Soliman are still carried for
Speaker 1: protection in Sufi and esoteric orders. Some groups continue to
Speaker 1: draw the seal in ritual contexts as meditation on God's
Speaker 1: names and cosmic harmony. In art and design, the hexagram
Speaker 1: seal is reoccurring motif in Islamic calligraphy, carpets and architecture
Speaker 1: are often filled with Arabic inscriptions, and in pop cultures
Speaker 1: sometimes confused with the Jewish Star of David. The Islamic
Speaker 1: Seal of Solimon is used in jewelry, tattoos and artwork
Speaker 1: as general symbol of mysticism and magical protection. I got
Speaker 1: a couple other images. I don't know if that one
Speaker 1: shows up, Well, got this one too. What I do
Speaker 1: find is interesting is that on Wikipedia it does attribute
Speaker 1: that symbol to Israel's flag.
Speaker 4: So I find it interesting how it's Islamic but it's
Speaker 4: not is Reel flag.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting?
Speaker 2: Well, I think what a lot of people don't understand
Speaker 2: about the Hebrew language is that it's Afroasiatic. Indo European
Speaker 2: would be Indian and europe and Afro Asiatic obviously much
Speaker 2: more Islamic, right, so the seals in the Islamic culture
Speaker 2: are the same. And what's interesting about this one? Really quickly, Yeah,
Speaker 2: did you.
Speaker 1: Talk about this too, because I know you've showed something
Speaker 1: that looked just like this too.
Speaker 2: It wasn't me. It wasn't me, I promise, FBI, FBI,
Speaker 2: it wasn't me. I didn't do it. But this symbol
Speaker 2: over on the far left hand side, the square with
Speaker 2: little squiggles on the outside, was drawn all over the
Speaker 2: trans shooter's rifle, all over it. I'm looking for an
Speaker 2: image right now of it. Oh wow, that's exactly the
Speaker 2: symbol that they were using. You see far left hand side,
Speaker 2: right in the middle, the square with the squiggles on
Speaker 2: the corners. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was all over the rifle.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I've seen that before. What the fuck
Speaker 2: is that?
Speaker 1: Wait? All right, I just want to make sure that
Speaker 1: this is the one you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this one, that's the one. Yeah, that's the one
Speaker 2: that was drawn all over the thing. So there might
Speaker 2: be a Kabbala angle for this whole thing that we
Speaker 2: haven't really gotten looks like it does. So how many
Speaker 2: more trans days of rage do we need for the
Speaker 2: cabala to start being looked at?
Speaker 4: Yo? I mean that's it, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I've even seen other people saying it now too,
Speaker 1: But like, go for real, for real, how many of
Speaker 1: these last kind of mass shootings have been from that whatever?
Speaker 1: I mean, how many more do we have to have
Speaker 1: that we're just going to ignore it again? I'm not
Speaker 1: saying like, oh, we got to go round up every
Speaker 1: person like that, but obviously there's something to fuck there.
Speaker 1: And if these things are staged, what are they saying
Speaker 1: by constantly using these people? There is something with that
Speaker 1: either you're trying to say something. Are they more susceptible
Speaker 1: to being empty culture? There's some reason why they're there,
Speaker 1: not just perchance a coincidence, like you know, like Ricardo says,
Speaker 1: coincidence takes planning. These people, there's planning, and these types
Speaker 1: of people are being used for some reason.
Speaker 4: I mean, even look at the Dizzians, a whole other
Speaker 4: thing on its own.
Speaker 2: And then I would suggest going back into the classical
Speaker 2: antiquity and start looking at how many times they use
Speaker 2: the UNUS. Everybody's talking about UNUS and there's no reason
Speaker 2: why so many people are cutting off their junk. Is
Speaker 2: there ever an explanation for that? We don't see it.
Speaker 2: It's really you know, but somehow, you know, in the
Speaker 2: Book of Acts, they talk about having long conversations with
Speaker 2: this Ethiopian eunuch and he's somehow connected to royalty, right,
Speaker 2: the government? What is going on with that? So the
Speaker 2: government was using UNIX back then for anything they wanted
Speaker 2: to and nobody's talking about why the government back then
Speaker 2: we want to use UNIXT. And what we see today
Speaker 2: where the government is using unis really close to a
Speaker 2: one to one comparison. Right, we're kind of discovering what's
Speaker 2: happened in the past.
Speaker 1: We need is a denaries to show up. Now throw
Speaker 1: did you ever watch Game of Throws? She had that
Speaker 1: UNI army.
Speaker 2: She did have the Unit army. Again, they were trying
Speaker 2: to describe why they would want eunuchs. Right, these people
Speaker 2: can't breathe, so they have to fight to the death.
Speaker 2: That's what they they assumed, right, but there could be
Speaker 2: something deeper and more psychological about it than what we're
Speaker 2: getting today. I mean, they were trying to come up
Speaker 2: with something, and didn't she fall in love with like
Speaker 2: the commander of one of the unit armies or something.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes she did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you must have had a strong head game. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: he could touch his eyebrows with his tongue, I guess.
Speaker 2: But that that almost encompasses all the all of the
Speaker 2: psychological angles as well. You know, there's some sort of
Speaker 2: strong head game with these.
Speaker 4: People, you know what you think?
Speaker 1: That even makes me think of like what you what
Speaker 1: possibly being symbolized in the gnostic mess I mean, the
Speaker 1: guy's just going down on her. There's actually no you know,
Speaker 1: male penetration.
Speaker 2: Technically, it could be. I mean, there's so much about
Speaker 2: the female orgasm that is associated with the oracle and insanity.
Speaker 2: Well that was more of like a nineteenth century thing, right,
Speaker 2: So they had hysteria. What is hysteria? It's because you've
Speaker 2: got a womb and so therefore it makes you crazy.
Speaker 2: But you know, back then it wasn't seen like that.
Speaker 2: It was like, you've got a womb, therefore that puts
Speaker 2: you in touch with the divine. And I think a
Speaker 2: lot of what the ancient saw as like the division
Speaker 2: between man and woman was the woman is receptive and
Speaker 2: the man is projected.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well that's even like cabbala basics right there,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: Or dualism really magnetic project you know.
Speaker 1: Fuck, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: What happens when you make the projective receptive? Right there?
Speaker 2: You go. You've got that dichotomy there that maybe people
Speaker 2: understood and used back then, and now it's getting used again.
Speaker 2: What happens when you make the projective receptive and so
Speaker 2: these basic alchemical and magical principles might be being used again.
Speaker 4: Well, that would almost be like a black hole.
Speaker 1: It's going to be projected, blast out, it's going to
Speaker 1: create itself and then sync back.
Speaker 2: In like a black hole. Chaos, Right, that's the idea.
Speaker 2: That's the idea. If you're if you're taking it to
Speaker 2: a sociological bend, you can really see the benefit of that.
Speaker 2: I've got chaos anytime I need it, unix everywhere.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you just put on the news,
Speaker 1: but right well that's the same thing, you know.
Speaker 2: So there could be something deeply mystical about this. We
Speaker 2: don't know how delicate the balance is and how close
Speaker 2: it is related it to nature.
Speaker 1: I even think a lot of it's just a symbolism.
Speaker 1: I guess again, I think it all goes back to
Speaker 1: like showing that that holds you know, that hermaphrodite sits there,
Speaker 1: and that's to who he used the.
Speaker 4: Hero's journey to go. There's gonna be death involved.
Speaker 2: Right right. They know it, and from their their ivory towers,
Speaker 2: they're like, it's okay to mess with the balance because
Speaker 2: we can use it to our advantage. But how long
Speaker 2: does that work? How long does that that hold out?
Speaker 1: I think that's when you're starting to uh, imposing your
Speaker 1: will onto nature.
Speaker 4: That just doesn't work out.
Speaker 2: Well, right, we're part of nature. We're part of nature.
Speaker 1: It's saying, yeah, you know, yeah, just the nature of
Speaker 1: the way this ecosystem should work on its own, right.
Speaker 1: You know, the monet has no problem, the planet can
Speaker 1: keep it regulated itself.
Speaker 4: Humans fuck it up.
Speaker 2: Right, right, and we do it in the most horrific
Speaker 2: ways over and over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thats right, bro.
Speaker 2: But you know nature always finds this balance, and what
Speaker 2: we end up finding is that the current system we
Speaker 2: have will be balanced by nature, and that nature is
Speaker 2: oftentimes us. That's just the way things go. And all
Speaker 2: of the numerology and all of the spells you cast,
Speaker 2: it doesn't stop that from happening. We have to achieve rebalance,
Speaker 2: and I don't think we're going to do that with
Speaker 2: transhumanism and inserting microchips into our brain. That's not going
Speaker 2: to do it. It's almost like that's the bridge too
Speaker 2: far right now. But we're looking at the bridge and
Speaker 2: the bridge is man with eunuchs, and that bridge is
Speaker 2: not pretty, and we don't want to go over that bridge.
Speaker 2: And so a lot of people have rejected it. But
Speaker 2: does that mean that they lost complete control? And it's
Speaker 2: almost like they're ready for the pushback, you know, because
Speaker 2: they've got this army of people who don't necessarily see
Speaker 2: themselves as people, They see themselves as something other than that.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, interesting all the guys of altruism, right.
Speaker 2: I think I think that the two main components of magic,
Speaker 2: the basic polarity is tension and release. Tension and release. Well,
Speaker 2: that's it, right. So the way I got to this
Speaker 2: was I think I probably brought it up last episode.
Speaker 2: We were talking about the the te that I was
Speaker 2: making for occult meetings. One of the guys there, he
Speaker 2: was a staunch atheist, but he still showed up to
Speaker 2: the meetings for some reason, and he's like, take your
Speaker 2: finger and push as hard as you possibly can without
Speaker 2: moving your finger. Keep pushing as hard as you possibly
Speaker 2: can without moving your finger. That's the tension. And then
Speaker 2: without moving it all, you can have a release of
Speaker 2: that same finger without ever moving it. Tension and release
Speaker 2: is not associated with movement. It's something internal.
Speaker 1: Like where you're going with that, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: You see. So when you've got that ability to do
Speaker 2: and to see the tension and release within yourself, that's
Speaker 2: when you can really start using magic to its fullest extent.
Speaker 2: It's because that tension and release within yourself is more
Speaker 2: real than the rest of the universe, and you're using
Speaker 2: it and we end up getting used by it. They
Speaker 2: can induce the tension, they can induce the release. These
Speaker 2: two things don't have to be the way they are
Speaker 2: if you have control over that within yourself.
Speaker 1: I think that even honestly, that even really goes back
Speaker 1: to my physical experiences before it cross the Abyss, even
Speaker 1: on my pineal gland, it feels like, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: pushing on it all of a sudden. At one point
Speaker 1: it feels like whatever my pressure was is now coming
Speaker 1: back towards me, even though I'm did it. It's like
Speaker 1: it switched polarity. Fucking weird, right, and again he almost
Speaker 1: goes to that black hole thing again. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just fucking yeah.
Speaker 2: Think about the beat structure for any song, tension and release.
Speaker 2: All of these they frequency tension and released, all tension
Speaker 2: and release. That's one of the big sort of revelations
Speaker 2: that I've come to this week. It's just it's so perfect.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't have to describe anything else other
Speaker 2: than tension and release to cover everything in the universe.
Speaker 2: Potential energy, kinetic energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the first thing I thought of when
Speaker 1: you said that it was ship like that. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: that's like a really fuck I really like that that
Speaker 1: way of saying it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that even.
Speaker 4: Works with Jack Parsons.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Boy, that's the fundamental polarity. And this is what
Speaker 2: I brought from my symbol, which is the southern cross.
Speaker 2: Nice tension and release, the cross right you're talking about
Speaker 2: you know, let's say with the energetic layout of the
Speaker 2: planet Earth, right, the energy flows into the north right.
Speaker 2: This is why we have the north pole that takes
Speaker 2: your compass and then orients it to the north. It's
Speaker 2: taking in energy, right, that's what the north pole is,
Speaker 2: and that energy comes out at the South pole, and
Speaker 2: this would be the South pole stars. Right, this is
Speaker 2: the Southern Cross. Now, it's interesting that the Southern hemisphere
Speaker 2: has really derivative and unoriginal type mythology and constellations because
Speaker 2: you know, obviously most of the people who are studying
Speaker 2: the stars were doing so from the northern hemisphere and
Speaker 2: they weren't really looking at the Southern hemisphere so much
Speaker 2: so when they got around and naming the constellations, they
Speaker 2: just sort of went with derivatives. But I think the
Speaker 2: Southern Cross is a good example of what's coming through
Speaker 2: the planet with magnetism. Right, it's the crossing of the
Speaker 2: celestial and the earthly because all of that earthly energy
Speaker 2: is coming at the bottom of that pole, right, So
Speaker 2: through the bottom of the pole, that's what it crosses.
Speaker 2: As it's coming through the celestial energy, so it's being distributed.
Speaker 2: It returns back to the apple shaped Taurus to the
Speaker 2: top again, right, tension and release, and so the Southern Cross,
Speaker 2: I think is it a good example of very specifically
Speaker 2: choosing which stars to be associated with this because you
Speaker 2: can see in the middle of that cross, you've got
Speaker 2: two stars, And if you've got the same sort of
Speaker 2: heuristics to find where these things are, then you don't
Speaker 2: really need the cross asterism as the basis. You could
Speaker 2: just say, well, there's these two points that are right
Speaker 2: at the middle of the Southern Cross, and we could
Speaker 2: just say that that's the polarity or whatever make their
Speaker 2: own thing. But instead they decided to go with these
Speaker 2: four stars, which almost makes more sense because you've got
Speaker 2: that crossing of energies that's coming out from the southern
Speaker 2: tip of the Earth right there. So I think the
Speaker 2: Southern Cross is a really significant example of well placed
Speaker 2: and well thought out asterisms, because you know, you could
Speaker 2: choose anything as an asterism. You could have had the
Speaker 2: Southern triangle. You know, you've got three stars in there,
Speaker 2: why not. But they had to go with the cross
Speaker 2: because that has to be symbolic of the energies that
Speaker 2: are being experienced at the far southern tip up of
Speaker 2: this sort of celestial earthly energy crossover. So that's my
Speaker 2: first symbol. What do you think.
Speaker 1: I was wondering if these like the circles are actually
Speaker 1: like in size of like how big they think they are,
Speaker 1: because I do find it interesting how like each one
Speaker 1: of them. I guess they're not going to be perfect,
Speaker 1: but like they both kind of look like, you know,
Speaker 1: like one smaller and one obviously bigger. I was just
Speaker 1: realizing that, how that's interesting to me. It's almost like
Speaker 1: they look like a double.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's at an angle, like one side
Speaker 2: of the cross is further back than the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it almost looks three dimensional
Speaker 1: and it's on a side tilt, right yeah yeah, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: if I do like this.
Speaker 2: For being derivative, I think they were going for the
Speaker 2: pure symbol like nature of it, and they weren't attaching
Speaker 2: any stories to them. So the Southern Hemisphere constellations are
Speaker 2: less I guess, uh mythologically driven and more symbolically driven,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was even wondering if you like start connecting other
Speaker 1: stars over here by it, would you end up getting
Speaker 1: other symbols?
Speaker 2: Oh, definitely.
Speaker 1: Like even like the like the cross was like the
Speaker 1: thing wrapped around it, Like I could see you maybe
Speaker 1: making that with like you know, connecting these stars like
Speaker 1: you know, ship wrapping around the cross.
Speaker 2: I don't know, absolutely there could be snakes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yes, yeah, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: But I think it's interesting that the cross in the
Speaker 2: middle of everything has the polarity, right, you know on the.
Speaker 4: X and the top bottom, right, you've.
Speaker 2: Got that sort of in there as well, different emanations.
Speaker 4: Right, even kind of showing boundaries beginning an end to
Speaker 4: both you know.
Speaker 2: Sides, right right. There's there's more to these asterisms than
Speaker 2: people give them credit for. And I think what you
Speaker 2: can you know, sort of get into the asterism and
Speaker 2: understand that it could be several other things, like these
Speaker 2: are stick figures. How in the hell do most of
Speaker 2: the stick figures we see in the Northern hemisphere actually
Speaker 2: equate to this mythology we see in Greek whatever, Like
Speaker 2: they had to be on another level to actually name
Speaker 2: these asterisms and make the shapes out of these different
Speaker 2: stars and put them into their place, Like that was
Speaker 2: the thousands and thousands of year long process that doesn't
Speaker 2: get any appreciation because they're just like, well, they're just
Speaker 2: stick figures. Well, there's an interplay between those stick figures.
Speaker 4: Where they got them from, right, right.
Speaker 2: So I think it's almost like these asterisms are our view,
Speaker 2: our cultural view, of the divine and we see them
Speaker 2: late over and over again in mythology, and you know,
Speaker 2: people like Socrates got killed over that. He said, you'll
Speaker 2: never escape mythology. And then they're like, take that back,
Speaker 2: you blasphemer, And instead of taking it back, he decided
Speaker 2: to drink the poison.
Speaker 4: He was.
Speaker 2: He was perfectly willing to drink the poison because he
Speaker 2: knew he was right. And everything we've seen since has been, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're stuck in mythology.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He was correct. He wasn't saying you'll ever get out.
Speaker 2: We're stuck in it. That's okay. I think I think
Speaker 2: that's fine, you know, I mean, really, what difference does
Speaker 2: it make if we are stuck in mythology or not.
Speaker 2: If we're stuck in it, then you know whatever. But
Speaker 2: I think people got so offended at the idea that
Speaker 2: he would suggest such a thing that they got upset,
Speaker 2: which is common. So what do you have for the
Speaker 2: next symbol? Here?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, that's right, I got another one?
Speaker 2: Did you uh?
Speaker 1: The next one?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there, we got it up nice, very good.
Speaker 4: Another another Arabic one.
Speaker 1: Was going with the Arabic stuff tonight, just him change
Speaker 1: it up a little different the two gra that is
Speaker 1: the sultan's sigil.
Speaker 4: The ts are rulers.
Speaker 1: A monogram, seal or signature and Arabic script. It was
Speaker 1: designed at the start of a of a sultan's reign
Speaker 1: and then stamped or painted on furman's royal edicts, deeds, letters, coins, seals,
Speaker 1: and even buildings. Uh the visual signature of imperial authority.
Speaker 4: Famous.
Speaker 1: While famous in the Ottoman Empire, similar monograms appear in
Speaker 1: neighboring courts later on. I guess, uh classical anatomy how
Speaker 1: to read one? A classical Ottoman togra has named parts
Speaker 1: you can point out in art or on coins. They'll
Speaker 1: normally be stacked script spelling the sultan's name, his father's name, titles,
Speaker 1: and often the motto God. I don't even know how
Speaker 1: to say this, ever, victorious. I'm not even gonna try
Speaker 1: to say it in the other way. Sometimes they'll be uh,
Speaker 1: there'll be bayze or eggs. The two big ovals on
Speaker 1: the left. Some sources read them as the two seas,
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean or the Black, the tugs, the three vertical
Speaker 1: shafts rising at the top, or Zulfi or the are
Speaker 1: the s curves across them answer. The dagger is the
Speaker 1: right sweeping stroke and these uh yeah. Functionally, a tugra
Speaker 1: was hard to counterfeit. A standard version was kept by
Speaker 1: the chancery while illuminated, while illuminated show versions headed what
Speaker 1: the fuck? All right, sorry, I'm getting confused. He with
Speaker 1: some of the notes. My bet skipped that first appearances
Speaker 1: in early dates, all right, In thirteen twenty four to
Speaker 1: thirteen sixty two, you'll have the reign of Orehan. That
Speaker 1: is some of the earliest surviving tugra to tugrahs that
Speaker 1: belonged to him. Then in fourteen thirty one, a carved
Speaker 1: tugra of Marad II is still visible at the Heptapay
Speaker 1: Pigeon fortress. These names man and that's an it's right
Speaker 1: outside of Istanbul. Then in fifteen twenty and around fifteen
Speaker 1: sixty six you have Suliman the first and you see
Speaker 1: him using it. Uh. And then now you also see
Speaker 1: it on paper again, like I mentioned before, every furman
Speaker 1: carried the reigning sultan's tugra at its head, and he
Speaker 1: was used in courts. Again, it was what you put
Speaker 1: on coins, especially in the Ottoman area, they had that
Speaker 1: on the coins. And again it was on buildings. Like
Speaker 1: I said, Uh, basically again what it meant it was
Speaker 1: the same nature of sovereignty, a visual stamped that validated orders,
Speaker 1: guaranteed authenticity, the Ottoman equivalent of a royal cipher or
Speaker 1: a cartouche. It was also the evolving, highly stylized projected.
Speaker 4: It projected power, wealth.
Speaker 1: And artistic virtuosity of the court. Yeah, I guess that's
Speaker 1: about it for that. Let me see if I I
Speaker 1: think I have other images I could show real quick.
Speaker 1: There it is on coins, there's another older, there's some
Speaker 1: of the names I was mentioning before here they are
Speaker 1: on this one. I just wasn't skipping the images of
Speaker 1: what I was going this time. Oh.
Speaker 2: Interesting, it's like a flow chart. You're seeing where it
Speaker 2: goes from one section to the other, and then all
Speaker 2: of it is put in the context of the language
Speaker 2: that again, you know, the the Arabic language. The reason
Speaker 2: why it flows into one another was so well is
Speaker 2: because of the fact that it's supposed to be geometric
Speaker 2: in nature.
Speaker 1: Stuff.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 2: So it's almost like a space ship, right. One of
Speaker 2: the ways that they explained like space travelers is through
Speaker 2: solar sailing, right, And so they've got these massive sales
Speaker 2: that pick up all the ions being emitted from the
Speaker 2: sun and then using that to sail outside the gall Right. Yeah, man,
Speaker 2: you've got sort of like a schematic almost right, and
Speaker 2: you've got the heat loss from the from the top.
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean I say it all the time, and it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm even including myself on this. There isn't enough Arabic
Speaker 1: stuff I think even covered or acknowledged. There's tons of
Speaker 1: stuff when I think when it comes to occultism and cultism,
Speaker 1: I mean cult symbolism and especially alchemy where you got
Speaker 1: you we're sleeping on the Islamic shit or the Arabic shit.
Speaker 4: I mean there's even people on the OTO who.
Speaker 1: Are dressing up in Islamic fucking outfits when they were
Speaker 1: like kind of in charge of the police, So like,
Speaker 1: what's up with that?
Speaker 2: Well? My second symbol is the son and rad ooh,
Speaker 2: and I think I think the son and rad represents
Speaker 2: a symbol that people have not fully accepted what the
Speaker 2: defined meaning is, right, And I'll give you examples. So
Speaker 2: first off, we've got a son and rad which is
Speaker 2: oh man, ah, they're all the wrong format.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, you want to send them over to me
Speaker 1: and I'll try to wait, I'll have to convert them anyway, Right,
Speaker 1: what is it? I'll see if I can pull it
Speaker 1: up on my end anyway.
Speaker 2: Just look up Son and rad PNG and you'll see
Speaker 2: all of the different styles that they have for the
Speaker 2: sun rod. They can't figure out if it's Greek, if
Speaker 2: it's solar, they have no basis. And sometimes you'll see
Speaker 2: the sun and rot in the axe. But it's widely
Speaker 2: agreed upon that this symbol came about with the Nazis,
Speaker 2: so they don't really have, like the the provenience.
Speaker 4: That uses the black sun.
Speaker 2: Right, the black Son the twelve spoke, Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2: So there's lots of different styles of that black stun swastika,
Speaker 2: but nobody really knows exactly what it's supposed to mean
Speaker 2: because the guy who made it is gone. He was
Speaker 2: a war criminal. They put him in jail, they killed him,
Speaker 2: you know whatever, And so the guy who made this
Speaker 2: symbol is no longer there to dictate what it means.
Speaker 2: So all we have is what people interpret it as.
Speaker 2: So it's it's it's a potent symbol. People could tell
Speaker 2: it's got a lot of power, but they don't exactly
Speaker 2: know why, and they're trying to apply it to their
Speaker 2: own thing. So like like we were talking about in
Speaker 2: the Nazi symbolism episode. You know, is this a polar
Speaker 2: symbol or a solar symbol? Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, could it be both?
Speaker 2: It could be exactly. But people are trying to ascribe
Speaker 2: their own interpretations to the symbol. And they say, the
Speaker 2: twelve rays of the sun equal the twelve rays of
Speaker 2: the zodiac right the.
Speaker 1: Bottom floyer that, buddy, I mean, I'll even say myself
Speaker 1: included when So it's coming to this symbolism and stuff.
Speaker 1: I think we're looking at a room, I think, or
Speaker 1: there's so much more behind it than what we eye
Speaker 1: myself even in this thing.
Speaker 2: Well, something interesting is is none of the spokes of
Speaker 2: the wheel would be representative of ruins, right, any individual
Speaker 2: one couldn't really be considered to be part of the
Speaker 2: elder food arc or even the younger food arc, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of different. They do have the six spoked wheel,
Speaker 2: which is a very common Northern European symbol that they
Speaker 2: use it wheel motifs, right, and the six spoke wheel
Speaker 2: is representative of a different class of people. Obviously, this
Speaker 2: is this is double that, and so the black Sun, right,
Speaker 2: which could be serious. So for seven months, i think
Speaker 2: it's seven months out of the year, Serious is behind
Speaker 2: the sun, so we don't see it at night. And
Speaker 2: so they've called sirious for thousands of years the black Sun,
Speaker 2: and we see serious popping up over and over and
Speaker 2: over again in a cult symbolism, but they never really,
Speaker 2: you know, call it the black Sun. They call it
Speaker 2: the secret soun. Right, It's not really the black Sun.
Speaker 2: It's something else. So it's not really serious, but it
Speaker 2: is kind of solar in nature because you've got the
Speaker 2: twelve spokes, but it could be something else. So it's
Speaker 2: not fully understood yet, and people are trying on etsy
Speaker 2: especially to make it their own. So I think it's
Speaker 2: it's kind of one of these things that you know,
Speaker 2: we're seeing come into you know, obviously it came through
Speaker 2: the Nazis, so it has to be some sort of
Speaker 2: northern symbolism. It has to be kind of associated with
Speaker 2: the northern climes, since you know, Nordicism and Nazism and
Speaker 2: everything else is sort of like a callback to this
Speaker 2: Hyperborean ideal. You know, it's sort of a romanticism, like
Speaker 2: this is this is the thing behind the thing. This
Speaker 2: is the thing that we think behind the thing, but
Speaker 2: we're not really sure what it means. What would you say, Well,
Speaker 2: what does it say to you?
Speaker 1: I think it's like it's almost how does it sound cheesy?
Speaker 1: Almost like kind of reminds you of like a Mayan calendar,
Speaker 1: where it's like almost like something that's like even in
Speaker 1: stages of time. You kind of a little bit like
Speaker 1: when you were saying at the beginning, is it some
Speaker 1: polar symbol or solar thing? And I think it could be,
Speaker 1: you know, possibly both, or it's like showing some I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's again, I'm even confused on the symbolism.
Speaker 1: I do see a solar sigil in there already, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I mean the circumpunkt is in there,
Speaker 1: and then you have all these angles coming out of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and an eyeball.
Speaker 2: Pretty much any circle can be an eyeball. Right, it's
Speaker 2: got that same kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But like you know how many church stressed you know
Speaker 1: how many church domes even like right here, have that
Speaker 1: kind of like style in them.
Speaker 2: Think about the atheosis of George Washington inside of the
Speaker 2: Capitol Building. He's got the Twelve Olympians all around him
Speaker 2: as he's ascending to godhood, right, So it's sort of
Speaker 2: like an ascension symbol as well. So all of the twelve,
Speaker 2: you know, energies are are coming into George Washington and
Speaker 2: making him a god that's apotheosis, so that it could
Speaker 2: be a symbol of apotheosis. But it's it's all very
Speaker 2: open to interpretation. And even though it's on the floors
Speaker 2: of a castle over in Germany, do we really know
Speaker 2: exactly what the meaning of this thing is? Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it eternal? That's the real question, because a lot
Speaker 2: of the symbols we bring up have this sense of eternality.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I think it goes for this for sure.
Speaker 1: It's almost like an eternal symbol, right.
Speaker 2: It's speaking to something, and I think a lot of
Speaker 2: different people are trying to make that thing what they're about,
Speaker 2: and they don't exactly know what that thing is.
Speaker 4: I like, don.
Speaker 1: Pupil, I like that one too done. I could see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got that feel to it. It's got that
Speaker 2: feel to it. I don't know, man, It's it's kind
Speaker 2: of up for interpretation, and a lot of people have
Speaker 2: their own interpretations on the sonn Rad and it goes
Speaker 2: across different cultures, and I think it's probably going to
Speaker 2: replace the swastika. I think this might be the purpose
Speaker 2: of it, is to replace the four spoke swastika with
Speaker 2: a twelve spoke thing, because it almost incorporates both the
Speaker 2: solar and the polar. It's almost like the union of
Speaker 2: these two ideas that you know, Mario talks about all
Speaker 2: the time. There was that shift between polar and solar,
Speaker 2: and now this is like the unification of those two ideas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, you could you get away with using this
Speaker 1: too a little bit easier than a swastika.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about that. I mean you you
Speaker 2: show this to any group of Normanies and one guy's
Speaker 2: gonna go nazy.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you think so okay? Oh yeah maybe yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2: I think it's clinically online culture. They're gonna be like,
Speaker 2: that's a Nazi symbol. Got to get rid of it,
Speaker 2: which makes it almost more alluring. It's like, this is
Speaker 2: going to trigger somebody, This is gonna make somebody really upset, you.
Speaker 4: Know, people and asof are wearing this shit. There was
Speaker 4: another thing.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, this is so obvious what the
Speaker 1: fuck's going on.
Speaker 2: Now, right? I mean, it originated in the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 2: you know, so obviously they're gonna be all about that.
Speaker 2: They're gonna be putting the song and rite on everything.
Speaker 2: This is the origination point, and they're going to be like,
Speaker 2: we own this, and a lot of other people are
Speaker 2: gonna be like, I can do something else with that,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to do something else with that. It's
Speaker 2: kind of like the swastika. Once the swastik was tainted,
Speaker 2: all these other people are like, no, that's our symbol.
Speaker 2: Even North American Indians were like, that's our symbol. You
Speaker 2: can't you can't say this is Nazism because again, it's
Speaker 2: spread so quickly. It's like that s, you know, the S,
Speaker 2: the stylized S that almost looks like a figure eight.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like that, you know. And when you
Speaker 2: put that stylized S over the kabbala, try if it's
Speaker 2: it's perfectly.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: So there's this callback to geometry and basic ideas of
Speaker 2: form that end up bringing about certain meanings. And I think,
Speaker 2: you know, artistic understanding of these things is important because
Speaker 2: we're conceptual creatures, and once we've got that conception, you know,
Speaker 2: it sticks with us for a long time.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 2: So what do you guys think. Do you like the
Speaker 2: concept of having a symbolism pot luck? Because I would
Speaker 2: love to have you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if it wasn't so random, we actually
Speaker 1: could have got more people from the show on. It
Speaker 1: was just kind of like we had the idea earlier today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is your idea, shout it over to me
Speaker 2: and I'm like, perfect pot luck.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was called.
Speaker 1: That's so easy to like, especially for people who fuck
Speaker 1: with the occulta like have the show, Like, you should
Speaker 1: have symbols in your head that you can just play random, right,
Speaker 1: talk about these.
Speaker 2: Are usable, These have purpose in your own life if
Speaker 2: you can make them that. But do you want to
Speaker 2: or not? You know, that's the that's the real question.
Speaker 2: It takes discipline. Engaging with symbols takes discipline, and I
Speaker 2: think showing the symbols gets people into the idea that
Speaker 2: you can commit to these things. We're just geometry in
Speaker 2: motion and form, you know, so it would make sense
Speaker 2: that we would connect with these symbols on a much
Speaker 2: deeper level than we even fully understand right now. You know,
Speaker 2: I think there's something to it. I agree with that, sir,
Speaker 2: Well we are. I think that's good.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you want to unless you have any
Speaker 1: meal that you want to read, it's put you on
Speaker 1: the spot. I think we're good for the Obviously we
Speaker 1: both did two things each.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's good. I think this is
Speaker 2: a good example of what we want to kind of do.
Speaker 2: If any listeners want to come up with their own
Speaker 2: symbol pot luck, I think that would be a great opportunity.
Speaker 2: Gets you introduced, lets you interact with the different people
Speaker 2: that you watch, and maybe you know, expand your influence.
Speaker 2: I think that's always a good thing. So if you've
Speaker 2: got any symbols and you want to bring them to
Speaker 2: these symbolic pot luck, I think that would be great
Speaker 2: for everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, we could even pull up like stuff on
Speaker 1: the the meaning of it whatever. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And if anybody has any stories, send them over to Headless.
Speaker 1: Give them the address. I'll send it to me and
Speaker 1: I will mail you out some stickers.
Speaker 2: So Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot com and I
Speaker 2: will shoot it over to Nick and tell them tell
Speaker 2: you that I'm getting stories. So if you want stickers
Speaker 2: and you got stories we can make trade.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely always see Flower. I see Flower in the chat.
Speaker 1: I think Flower Flower. That might have been somebody Flower
Speaker 1: grab two shirts with me today. I think it might
Speaker 1: be the same person. Maybe not.
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, yeah, she always watches these. Thank you
Speaker 2: Flower so much for joining in.
Speaker 1: Yeah hell yeah, but uh yeah for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: And check out where the events will be at. And
Speaker 1: you want any T shirts let me know, Uh, hit
Speaker 1: me up and yeah, thank you. I had a good
Speaker 1: time tonight.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well. Thank you for joining me, Nick, thank you
Speaker 2: for joining me. Everybody in the chat. This has been
Speaker 2: a great episode. This has been a symbol symbol of potlock.
Speaker 2: So if you want to join in, just let me
Speaker 2: know and we'll get you on there with your symbols
Speaker 2: esoteric as hell. I love esoteric symbols, stuff I've never
Speaker 2: seen before. That's what Nick always brings.
Speaker 4: Tried shit that I didn't even really know about. I
Speaker 4: tried finding something.
Speaker 2: New, Absolutely, find something new, bring it in. It's great. Well,
Speaker 2: thank you guys for joining us, and we'll see you
Speaker 2: again next time. I'm going to be here on Sunday
Speaker 2: morning with the trialogues with Ethan and Ricardo. Thank you
Speaker 2: and we'll see you again next time, mate,