Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen. What's going to happen?
Speaker 2: What? I you? Okay, So I guess we're alive. So
Speaker 2: this is three Enoch with Robbie Marx continuing a series
Speaker 2: and of course my boss Nick mister thirty three of
Speaker 2: the cop age X. Oh uh yeah, we're just uh
Speaker 2: we were talking a little bit about well, Robbie O
Speaker 2: is we could let we could record right away pretty
Speaker 2: much and it would be pretty interesting. I think I
Speaker 2: brought up the idea of the heck a Lot versus
Speaker 2: Marcaba literature, and I think that actually brings us into
Speaker 2: three Enoch really well. So I'm gonna let be like
Speaker 2: introduce what the book is, how it relates to other
Speaker 2: two and sort of it's placed in the greater we'll say,
Speaker 2: Judeo Christian mysticism or like canon. And obviously Nick wants
Speaker 2: to jump in ken do so so that's very out
Speaker 2: check for.
Speaker 3: Sure for sure.
Speaker 4: So now the third Book of Enoch or Enoch three
Speaker 4: is the Hebrew Book of Enoch. So this is actually
Speaker 4: temple literature that claims to be written about one hundred
Speaker 4: a d. But the scholars say it's most likely written
Speaker 4: by highly trained rabbis from between three to four hundred
Speaker 4: a d. And it's mostly fragments that they've gathered from
Speaker 4: different sources and kind of seen together. It was in
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty eight this doctor Hugo Autobird, PhD. Gathered the
Speaker 4: various fragments, publishing the first full transition of the gathered
Speaker 4: fragments with the source Hebrew material as far as the
Speaker 4: actual fragments, and that book actually got kind of and
Speaker 4: he didn't make very many I've got here somewhere. He
Speaker 4: only made like a very limited like six or seven
Speaker 4: of these books, or maybe it was in the teens.
Speaker 4: But nonetheless, one of them sat on the shelf in
Speaker 4: a library in Chicago for years and years and years
Speaker 4: and nobody even knew it was there, and he kind
Speaker 4: of traced it down and found this book, this guy Lumpkin,
Speaker 4: Joseph B. Lumpkin, But he gathered because there was more
Speaker 4: fragments that they had found, and then he found this
Speaker 4: old book from nineteen twenty eight by Autobird and kind
Speaker 4: of brought that into the modern edition that we have
Speaker 4: now that is Enoch three.
Speaker 2: So okay, so let's uh so, in which ways Robbie
Speaker 2: are is Enoch three related or maybe very dissimilar from
Speaker 2: the first two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that these were essentially books that were
Speaker 4: independently created during different time periods, all based around the
Speaker 4: character of Enoch that basically show this night vision that
Speaker 4: Enoch has into him being physically translated into the heavens
Speaker 4: and not having to die. So they took that base
Speaker 4: character and basically you have the you know, the Ethiopic book,
Speaker 4: which is probably the older than the Slavonic, and this
Speaker 4: is the Hebrew. And now with this one specifically, it's
Speaker 4: not specifically about Enoch. It's more about a rabbi. It's
Speaker 4: written by a rabbi who became a high priest after
Speaker 4: he had an ecstatic vision of his ascension into heaven.
Speaker 4: So this is Rabbi Ishmael. We're looking at ninety a
Speaker 4: d to one thirty five AD. But a lot of
Speaker 4: people believe that it wasn't written by him. It was
Speaker 4: written like three hundred years later by other trained rabbis.
Speaker 4: And basically it's a pursuit of figural work in the
Speaker 4: sense that it says it's from a time that it's not,
Speaker 4: and it says it's by an author that it's not.
Speaker 4: But this rabbi, he basically, you know, very much like
Speaker 4: Enoch or the various night journeys we have. You know,
Speaker 4: through all of the histories, every prophet basically has a
Speaker 4: night journey. This rabbi, he has a night journey and
Speaker 4: he goes up into the heavens and basically gets to
Speaker 4: ask Enoch questions. So that's what the Hebrew Book of
Speaker 4: Enoch is really all about.
Speaker 5: Okay, pass gets asking questions. Yeah, yeah, what would you
Speaker 5: ask him if you could ask an not a question?
Speaker 3: Ro what would I ask you?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you had if you had one question to
Speaker 1: ask you, jeez, I put you on the spot down there,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, I would my stole would probably just leave
Speaker 4: my body and uh, I would be like on my
Speaker 4: face on the floor. I wouldn't be thinking about questions
Speaker 4: so much, man, you know, I mean the way that
Speaker 4: they describe this, you know, they're having you know, in
Speaker 4: some ways, I could compare this to some psychedelic experiences
Speaker 4: in regard to d MT. But at the same time,
Speaker 4: these ecstatic kind of profits. You know, we can trace
Speaker 4: back all through history from the civilian prophecy to the
Speaker 4: ecstatic Kabbalah to the divine madness of Plato.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: This is it's something that's been a consistent.
Speaker 4: Factor in the history that these people have these outer
Speaker 4: body experiences where they have some significant thing that happens
Speaker 4: to them in the outer realm and they come back
Speaker 4: basically with information.
Speaker 3: Of the you know, the outer realms.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: So one thing I thought that was really interesting that
Speaker 2: Nick asked you that question was because I was thinking,
Speaker 2: this actually makes sense that it's about a rabbi and
Speaker 2: not specifically Enoch, because it is the path of the Zodi,
Speaker 2: the saint, the star, which is that path between your
Speaker 2: so in netsc. So it is like the star card
Speaker 2: and you know, and so it's very interesting to me.
Speaker 2: It's like it's so it's relating that it's the every
Speaker 2: magician rather than it's not just about some mythical Enoch.
Speaker 2: It's saying like, you can do this. You can be
Speaker 2: Adam Cadmon too, right, You just have to like have
Speaker 2: a little bit of understanding when you're reading it, not
Speaker 2: project like, uh, you know how people do their like
Speaker 2: I need to worship this figure in the text. But no,
Speaker 2: the text is actually saying no, this is about you.
Speaker 4: Yes, oh very much, so very much so, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's just uh, you know, I think that this
Speaker 4: divine ecstatic experience is a part of the human experience,
Speaker 4: you know. And what was it Carl Sagan? You know,
Speaker 4: he said everyone's a star. So in regard to.
Speaker 5: The star, what's that every man and woman is a star?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Crowley said, And then you have the
Speaker 4: astro argentum, you know, the silver star.
Speaker 3: It's uh yeah.
Speaker 4: So I think that this, this whole thing is a
Speaker 4: natural part of experiencing the divine within the mortal body,
Speaker 4: within the mortal coil.
Speaker 2: You know. I think that's really interesting in terms of
Speaker 2: the heck a logue versus Markaba mysticism question, like in
Speaker 2: Buddhism we would say, well, in Tonsic Buddhism, we would
Speaker 2: say the mind palace is something that you carry with
Speaker 2: you through time and space, like it is your mind.
Speaker 2: So the markaba is also you, just as in the
Speaker 2: more medieval kabala you are the spark. You are the
Speaker 2: spark that travels through the past. But maybe in the
Speaker 2: original idea it's more of a it's less agential meaning
Speaker 2: like you don't you have less agency of less free will.
Speaker 2: Maybe you're less luciferic, you're not so luminous in and
Speaker 2: of yourself. You're reliant on the experiences of both gods
Speaker 2: and demons.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: Because the timing fits, Robbie, I'm sure you've already noted this,
Speaker 2: is that it fits perfectly with the Second Babylonian Exodus.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And my sort of proposition or something that I've been
Speaker 2: thinking about or working on speaking about since your first
Speaker 2: first episode on the show is the idea that this
Speaker 2: is really a kind of pseudo Zoroastrianism or Zoroastrianism at
Speaker 2: a schismatic point that the Rabbis, who are high Iq people,
Speaker 2: because of the memorization and sort of mysticism involved in Judaism,
Speaker 2: we're able to see the Iranian tree or the Persian
Speaker 2: tree or whatever you want to call it, and they
Speaker 2: were able to sort of copy this into what later
Speaker 2: became like the Zohar and all of these texts. So
Speaker 2: I think that they're also speaking about like there's an
Speaker 2: there's sort of a maybe a metaphysics that run through
Speaker 2: but it doesn't necessarily have to even agree with each other,
Speaker 2: Like they don't have to be they can be like
Speaker 2: different factions, different schools, different ideas happening sort of at
Speaker 2: the same time. And there are different even ways of
Speaker 2: reading like the three Books of Enoch, just like there
Speaker 2: are three there are different ways to read the Gnostic texts.
Speaker 4: So the Bible, you know, that's right, yeah, And then
Speaker 4: to some people the Bible is a very Gnostic text
Speaker 4: in regard to Jesus seeking Sofia, you know. And and
Speaker 4: you know, when you get into the idea of the
Speaker 4: star and the connection between the star and the angel
Speaker 4: in regard to them being synonymous with the each other,
Speaker 4: just different words for the same idea. And then you
Speaker 4: look at the ancient Zorastrianism. Zorastra was the one that
Speaker 4: came up with the beginning in the end, which is
Speaker 4: where we get into this in times apocalyptic kind of philosophy.
Speaker 4: Zorastra was also the same one that said that every
Speaker 4: person had their own individual angel or quote unquote guardian
Speaker 4: angel that watched over them, that every town has an angel,
Speaker 4: every city has an angel, every country has an angel,
Speaker 4: every you know. And then you have the world itself
Speaker 4: with the angel that's over the world, which is Samuel,
Speaker 4: you know. And but Enoch himself is the lord of
Speaker 4: the Earth, so he's over Samuel, and he actually pleas
Speaker 4: for the earth because he is a human. He is
Speaker 4: basically the human that's allowed to come into the divine
Speaker 4: ratio as the witness of humanity, whereas Samuel, you know,
Speaker 4: the rules kind of passed to him because the humans
Speaker 4: were so out of control, you know. So you have
Speaker 4: this dialectic of almost this and and Samuel is in
Speaker 4: the higher realms of heaven even though he's a fallen angel,
Speaker 4: and Enoch basically is the human element that pleads for humanity,
Speaker 4: while Samuel kind of is this kind of more negative
Speaker 4: entity that's still in the heavens. So it's interesting just
Speaker 4: the way it all kind of lays out well.
Speaker 2: And it also goes back to a discussion that you
Speaker 2: and I have had that Nick and I have like
Speaker 2: basically every show is this kind of dialectical relationship that
Speaker 2: happens between Gava and Cha said, because that's what Samuel is.
Speaker 2: He is like the hand of God. He's like stating there,
Speaker 2: flame shooting out, like you can only temper it with
Speaker 2: what with our action in the world, which is supposed
Speaker 2: to be mercy. So you know, it's it's a really
Speaker 2: interesting thing because there are clearly are differences of opinion
Speaker 2: in how and where you're going on the tree and
Speaker 2: like where your terminus is. Like some people like we
Speaker 2: were like Nick asked me on to do a show
Speaker 2: with Heidi loved was really great, actually, like really phenomenal,
Speaker 2: I thought, and uh, yeah, and really informative and and
Speaker 2: so they were. She was talking about how Joseph Smith
Speaker 2: had like a knife of Mars and a pentacle of Jupiter.
Speaker 2: And I think it was actually a pentacle that protects
Speaker 2: against poverty. If I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong,
Speaker 2: but I don't think that's what it was, or a
Speaker 2: protection a pentacle for protection in general, which are also Jubertarian.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, I mean maybe the three of
Speaker 2: us know this, but a lot of people don't know
Speaker 2: that there's like a very ferocious, powerful smiting someone would
Speaker 2: say element of Jupiter. So it's the sort of extremes
Speaker 2: of how we view them. So if we say, like O,
Speaker 2: Mars is like more molific, more evil, more fiery, but
Speaker 2: like Niko says, it's just change. It's just change, that's
Speaker 2: all it is. And uh and and you know you
Speaker 2: can drown in water too, so like you can over
Speaker 2: apply mercy. You can be overmerciful, Yes, that's totally possible,
Speaker 2: and you can actually cause more suffering. So the idea
Speaker 2: is to like not be either extreme. Yeah, balance it
Speaker 2: all out, you know for sure.
Speaker 4: And that's what the you know, within ourselves, we have
Speaker 4: to learn to understand these different things and work to
Speaker 4: balance them within ourselves. And you know, I was talking
Speaker 4: to this Jewish cat over in port Chester, New York,
Speaker 4: and he was basically using Kabbala most specifically for his
Speaker 4: own internal workings and balance, which again coordinate out to
Speaker 4: the stars within those planetary elements that are incorporated within
Speaker 4: the different sephara of the tree, you.
Speaker 2: Know, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's also interesting because I was just talking about
Speaker 2: this this morning, is that how astrology in a tonric
Speaker 2: way is not astrology about even the stars. It's really
Speaker 2: an alchemical methodology to like look at the certain inflection
Speaker 2: points of karma in your life and then be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: how can I fix this? Like thing that's not doesn't
Speaker 2: look great? Like how can I what are my workarounds?
Speaker 2: What is my like you can say, magical system, like
Speaker 2: what what what are the specific tools that I can
Speaker 2: use to you know, fix this thing. So it's very
Speaker 2: much I would say probably it's interesting that this book
Speaker 2: narrates more of the human's journey because there's also this
Speaker 2: idea in Massionic Judaism that God gave us, gave us
Speaker 2: like humanity the world, like it is our worst to
Speaker 2: do with whatever we want, whether good or bad, like
Speaker 2: it's only up to our free will sort of right.
Speaker 4: Well, and that was when you get in. Even within
Speaker 4: this text, we see again that the angels, the angelic classes,
Speaker 4: are very unsatisfied and upset that, you know, God had
Speaker 4: brought this, this mortal that had been born by a
Speaker 4: human into the divine higher realms in his physical form,
Speaker 4: you know, for the night journey, and they're like talking
Speaker 4: about they can smell the blood of the woman from
Speaker 4: his birth. They're talking about, you know that basically he's
Speaker 4: a polluted entity from the earthly realm, and you know,
Speaker 4: so this is a consistent scene that we see from
Speaker 4: the Creation in Eden when basically God asks Lucifer to
Speaker 4: bow down to the newly created man, which was one
Speaker 4: of the reasons for his fall, to the end of
Speaker 4: to the end of the the idea of Enoch, where
Speaker 4: they're still upset and and God basically has to say,
Speaker 4: you know, I gave my love to him and you're
Speaker 4: just gonna have to deal with it. So, you know
Speaker 4: which led I think, you know, in the beginning to
Speaker 4: the essential fall of a third of the angels from
Speaker 4: the heaven. In regard to the mythology, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that there's clearly like we were talking
Speaker 2: about Chariot versus Polace literature. But I also think there's
Speaker 2: maybe even a third distinction you can make in some
Speaker 2: of this, which is more of that Luciferian and I'm
Speaker 2: not using it in like a negative way, but the
Speaker 2: one that's relating like the journey of the man. But
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily the a is the hero. It's more
Speaker 2: of like that idea that I spoke about the Zadi
Speaker 2: they have the sort of magician. It's really that's what
Speaker 2: it is. It's a magician's journey. And so we talked
Speaker 2: about this in the last episode, like about how Joseph
Speaker 2: Campbell's monomth doesn't quite fit the magician, right, They never
Speaker 2: quite fit the magician because we're just too fucked up,
Speaker 2: we're two, we're too wild, I don't know, now, we
Speaker 2: don't really fit. So but there is like a story
Speaker 2: for us and of us. It just is maybe more
Speaker 2: trans a little more transgressive like Three Enoch you were saying,
Speaker 2: is maybe more of the transgressive side of the Three Enochs.
Speaker 2: I know they're not inherently related, but they have a
Speaker 2: metatextual relationship.
Speaker 4: There's definitely some transgressive issues with an Enoch three.
Speaker 3: And now the Names of Enoch.
Speaker 4: They call it the third Book of Enoch, but they
Speaker 4: also call it the Book of Palaces in relation to
Speaker 4: Temple literature, you know, so, and it has many you know,
Speaker 4: when you get into the Hebrew words, you also have
Speaker 4: to understand that Hebrew and the structure of the letters.
Speaker 3: And the meaning behind the words.
Speaker 4: Oftentimes a single word will have multiple meanings entailed within it,
Speaker 4: so within the the transcription, within the translation effort. It's
Speaker 4: hard to sometimes pin down some of these ideas with
Speaker 4: you know, going from Hebrew to English.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is really interesting, Robbie, because something I
Speaker 2: think about with like Tibetan and Sanskrit is that there's
Speaker 2: a very simple there's like a lot of people have
Speaker 2: looked at the similarities between Hebrew and Soundscrit. It's not
Speaker 2: just me, but maybe less so have looked at the
Speaker 2: sort of like ways that liturgical or contract Tibetan. So
Speaker 2: there's more of like a formal how Tibetan is used
Speaker 2: to translate tontras from the Sanskrit, but sometimes tontos are
Speaker 2: actually originally written in Tibetan. So there's this idea that
Speaker 2: maybe you can encapsulate magical knowledge in translate in like
Speaker 2: in translation through languages that aren't necessarily related by family,
Speaker 2: if you use secret methodology. Yes, so I kind of
Speaker 2: think that that I'm already open to that. So but
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. But Teresa asks a really
Speaker 2: good question in the chat, and I'm not used to
Speaker 2: going live next, so I'm just going to do a
Speaker 2: little call lesson.
Speaker 1: I guess I go for it, please.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Gerva is usually associated with red. Is a
Speaker 2: great color, but it has like a very it's a
Speaker 2: very orange e red. It's not like a it's not
Speaker 2: like a scarlet red. It's much more of a it's
Speaker 2: a funny rat, so it looks like fire.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't necessarily say it's actually the traditional red people
Speaker 5: would think of.
Speaker 1: I would agree with.
Speaker 2: That, And yeah, so I appreciate that. Nick agrees because
Speaker 2: like obviously I to him, but there's a there's a
Speaker 2: there's a yellow and a gold. Especially in Tantra, we
Speaker 2: would say there's like a yellow and a gold also
Speaker 2: kind of quality, maybe a density of it. If you
Speaker 2: think of it like a jawbreaker with different sort of
Speaker 2: crusts that have different colors. That's a probably good way.
Speaker 2: And then or Russian nesting doll. I've heard other people
Speaker 2: talk about this metaphor for Kabala is pretty good as well,
Speaker 2: because you can kind of imagine that dolls is different colors,
Speaker 2: different weights, they all have different sizes. That's very much
Speaker 2: like what the zephar are and they all fit into
Speaker 2: each other. So there's this idea that each center, like
Speaker 2: the center center doll the smallest doll, but the densist
Speaker 2: doll should also be like pristine the quality of ice
Speaker 2: diamonds or lightning. So this also goes along with the
Speaker 2: idea of what Robbie was saying. And so this idea
Speaker 2: of ice diamonds and lightning actually relates to chess sad
Speaker 2: or the other pillar, the blue pillar, because that is
Speaker 2: really the essential color of that pillar is clear. However,
Speaker 2: in Jewish mysticism, as well as in TNTRA they express
Speaker 2: it and the color of turquoise. However, turquoise isn't really turquoise.
Speaker 2: It's not really blue. But that's when when it becomes
Speaker 2: more a hermetic idea, you have to concretize it into reality.
Speaker 2: Turquoise is not is just a much more uncommon color.
Speaker 2: People aren't going to always understand that turquoise means clear,
Speaker 2: so they kind of say that chessad is blue. But
Speaker 2: I think maybe Nick would agree with this. There's kind
Speaker 2: of quality of lapis lazula and then there's a quality
Speaker 2: of turquoise, and both of those are has said. So
Speaker 2: it's not either or it's kind of like a weird
Speaker 2: sphere that you can say is blue, but like with gavura,
Speaker 2: it's not really red. But yeah, that's generally the color
Speaker 2: people say.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean you also will even get like the blue
Speaker 5: the green sphere on the bottom going towards chess out
Speaker 5: on the right pillar, so like you could even see
Speaker 5: like what were you saying, turquoise see green and blue
Speaker 5: and then something that you're actually I have to say,
Speaker 5: I'm really impressed with the way you know this a lot,
Speaker 5: because I've noticed it either like when you're on your
Speaker 5: own posts or your own show. Each sphere does have
Speaker 5: four different colors. I always just kind of refer to
Speaker 5: the one that is just used on the sphere. You
Speaker 5: do kind of have notice pay attention to the other ones,
Speaker 5: and I normally don't notice that stuff. But there is
Speaker 5: like three other colors besides what's normally used that could
Speaker 5: be associated with that sphere. So I guess what I'm
Speaker 5: saying when it comes to symbolism and the cabala, like
Speaker 5: so many different colors and you could be playing around
Speaker 5: with it.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that what hit me, Nick was when
Speaker 2: we did our show like a million years ago about
Speaker 2: Pink Floyd. I realized, like when Lisa was talking about synesiesia,
Speaker 2: I realized that I actually have a little bit of it,
Speaker 2: and it particularly happens with colors, but not with music.
Speaker 2: It actually happens with words. So and I feel I've
Speaker 2: spoken and obviously have had Sashkey on my show a
Speaker 2: few times. He's a you know, a very advanced qualist
Speaker 2: as well as like as a physicist and a mathematician,
Speaker 2: so he also has a little bit of this, but
Speaker 2: his is more musical, whereas mine is more associated with words.
Speaker 2: But I realized that it probably is a common, maybe
Speaker 2: a relatively common experience with people who study kabala or
Speaker 2: contra or magic in just in general, that you'll just
Speaker 2: start to associate, like maybe you'll see colors like I
Speaker 2: don't see it all the time, but like, I'm sure
Speaker 2: this happens for Nick, and I'm sure it happens to Robbie,
Speaker 2: like because if you look at colors or you're looking
Speaker 2: at reality all the time, you begin to like, you know, notice,
Speaker 2: I guess little things. But my what makes me notice
Speaker 2: the other colors, Nick, is not so much my skill
Speaker 2: or anything. I appreciate that you say that, it's really
Speaker 2: that it's other people who are using kabala in the world.
Speaker 2: You could say they kind of mix up the colors.
Speaker 2: So whenever they do things, they they add the colors
Speaker 2: in a weird way. I find, Like for me, it's weird.
Speaker 2: I find it like it's because it's not book ordered,
Speaker 2: it's not like pristine. I kind of look at it
Speaker 2: like what are they doing? So that's more how I
Speaker 2: deconstruct it, is like I try and look at the
Speaker 2: way they're looking at it, rather than the way that
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: About it, right well, and I think just like the
Speaker 4: the various spheres have the different intonations of quality and color,
Speaker 4: very much like the Hebrew words themselves have different quality
Speaker 4: and meaning in regard to the multiplicity of the whole.
Speaker 2: See, that's such an important part about Hebrew mysticism in general,
Speaker 2: just because it like every letter, even the way the strokes,
Speaker 2: like just like in Chinese, like the stroke count matters.
Speaker 2: Is something my grandparents would say to me, like until
Speaker 2: I was like they would slap my hands until we
Speaker 2: could like write them properly, like really, and so they
Speaker 2: would always be like, stroke count matters. And then you
Speaker 2: become in a all you realize, yeah, it actually matters,
Speaker 2: because it changes the whole way the letter looks or
Speaker 2: the word looks. And so in soundscript this is also true,
Speaker 2: is that every little stroke it has a color, has
Speaker 2: a number, has like a little vibration, has like a wavelength,
Speaker 2: has other associations. So it becomes like very complex complex
Speaker 2: just with single letters.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: And you know, if you look at the idea of
Speaker 4: the alphabet and letters in general and trace that back
Speaker 4: through the evolution of the alphabets, those original hieroglyphs per
Speaker 4: se that developed into the letters. Those hieroglyphs themselves have
Speaker 4: fundamental understandings of explanation of the cosmos entwined in the
Speaker 4: symbol itself that we've kind of lost within the modern,
Speaker 4: you know, vernacular of business English.
Speaker 2: You know, well, vernacular is an interesting way to sort
Speaker 2: of reframe us. But sorry, I derailed us off of
Speaker 2: three my fault. I'll blame me. But I think that
Speaker 2: because the language is are different, and like Robbie was saying,
Speaker 2: can you perfectly translate like something that's Jim jamatria complex?
Speaker 2: Maybe because I'm not TJ right like you know, I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't just do it like that, But can you
Speaker 2: translate something like that into English? Well, I think that
Speaker 2: I would make a case that you can now either
Speaker 2: one to do it definitely not.
Speaker 4: But I think the creation of the English language itself,
Speaker 4: when you go back to Chaucer and you start to
Speaker 4: look at the creation of new words and William Shakespeare
Speaker 4: creating many new words in the English language, I think
Speaker 4: that the foundation of the English language itself had very
Speaker 4: magical beginnings.
Speaker 3: And had, you know, a lot.
Speaker 4: Of mysticism kind of woven into it for the purpose
Speaker 4: of creating the new Atlantis.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a very interesting idea that I've actually
Speaker 2: been playing with and like other people have been talking
Speaker 2: about it and thinking about it. Is this idea of
Speaker 2: like the new ad set line like this, like I
Speaker 2: call it Hapa Borea obviously from my pointing, right, but
Speaker 2: the it's that I think the more proper term is
Speaker 2: a new ad Set land. So like this kind of
Speaker 2: reforging of like this pre pre de Alluvian. I guess
Speaker 2: they would say Atlantis, but it's on America, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do think it's kind of interesting, especially right now.
Speaker 2: Like obviously I don't really talk about the news that much,
Speaker 2: but like there is some really interesting like dialogue like
Speaker 2: does the does Canada belong to the US? Is it
Speaker 2: like forged in our manifest destiny to be part of
Speaker 2: this greater world? Island you could say? Or the turtles
Speaker 2: back because the turtle is in fact all the way
Speaker 2: down the tip to Mexico. That's the tail right, and
Speaker 2: the head of the turtle is actually at the Arctic. Yes,
Speaker 2: So is that the manifest destiny of America? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just I think it's interesting. I think is the
Speaker 2: interesting idea of like what you're bringing up and then
Speaker 2: how it relates to right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now when we're looking at Enoch right and
Speaker 4: we talked about the Hebrew words have, but it also
Speaker 4: has Greek and Latin words mixed in with it, so
Speaker 4: it becomes kind of this this slurry, this melting pot
Speaker 4: that's you know, very much like America. How you're having
Speaker 4: kind of Babylonian philosophy and Greek philosophy and Roman philosophy
Speaker 4: and kind of all that culminating into you know, the
Speaker 4: time that this kind of was compiled and kind of
Speaker 4: used as a sacred temple palaces kind of text.
Speaker 2: Do you think, Robbie, that the idea do you think
Speaker 2: my idea is crazy about the idea of the mind
Speaker 2: palace is being like like palace literature is about it
Speaker 2: in your mind or at least in your sort of
Speaker 2: container of material of the material universe, like your kingdom,
Speaker 2: your little home or whatever it is, or and the
Speaker 2: Marcaba is more about you have to physically or you
Speaker 2: go somewhere, so you go somewhere higher in the cosmos.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the mind palace is something that we
Speaker 4: all carry and can develop into you know, giant palaces
Speaker 4: full of rooms very much along the lines of what's
Speaker 4: his Bruno, Bruno the alchemist, they got a what's his
Speaker 4: last name? Uh, But he talks about mind palaces and
Speaker 4: the creation and how to create this memory palace, basically
Speaker 4: Bruno Diagno. And then you have the idea of the marcaba,
Speaker 4: which you know, the mind is is something that we
Speaker 4: tap into. It's not necessarily local. It may be related
Speaker 4: to the magnetic field. But then as far as the markaba,
Speaker 4: the meat suit that we all carry around is our
Speaker 4: markaba that allows us to function in three dimensional time space,
Speaker 4: you know, And and it's flesh, so it's going to decay.
Speaker 4: So we have a limited amount of time in the
Speaker 4: various you know marcabas that we potentially could take on.
Speaker 2: You know, one thing I thought of neck right away
Speaker 2: was when I was reading The Three Enoch about the
Speaker 2: description of Enoch and like his how his eyes explode
Speaker 2: into flames, right, but it's not just his eyes, it's
Speaker 2: like they got it's quite specific and like the kind
Speaker 2: of like organs around the eyes and.
Speaker 4: Well the eye, yeah, the eyebrows are actually made of
Speaker 4: the original material that put life into things within the
Speaker 4: three dimensional realm, and basically they burn hotter and meaner
Speaker 4: than any other part of reality, you know. So, and
Speaker 4: it's basically the the energy that holds up the pillars
Speaker 4: are foundation is what his burning eyebrows are making.
Speaker 3: And then his eyes are like lightning.
Speaker 2: And very mixed. It was like very husa metaphors like
Speaker 2: flaming and then also lightning, yes, like bajra and flame
Speaker 2: at the same time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and his limbs were made into like coals of
Speaker 4: burning what was it juniper wood? And uh, it just yeah,
Speaker 4: the the descriptions, it's just I mean, you really, if
Speaker 4: you want to get the full flavor, you kind of
Speaker 4: because as as this Rabbi is going into the heavens
Speaker 4: and he's going to you know, meet Eenoch, he goes
Speaker 4: through and what's interesting is, you know, you have the
Speaker 4: the other two texts that talk about rising through the
Speaker 4: different mansions, whereas in this one the rabbi talks about
Speaker 4: he goes into a hole and then the next heaven
Speaker 4: is another hole inside of the hole, and he ends
Speaker 4: up going you know, through seven holes before he gets
Speaker 4: to the point where he can see the highest heaven.
Speaker 3: You know. So it's it's this almost like a.
Speaker 4: Black hole in a black hole in a black hole
Speaker 4: and a black hole, and it's it's yeah, quite interesting
Speaker 4: visually in the mind.
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting to me because it is like
Speaker 2: very separatic, like obviously those they are negative space. Like
Speaker 2: I'm using the idea of the nesting dolls, but it's
Speaker 2: not really the nesting dolls. It's actually like the air
Speaker 2: in between each one that really is the sefara. But
Speaker 2: you have to use an outer container a klip up
Speaker 2: one way to describe it, right, or to an idea
Speaker 2: at least a word to hold on to it. So
Speaker 2: there's this idea that like, yeah, the seven, so it's expansion.
Speaker 2: I noticed that was the number for this episode. Is
Speaker 2: really about sevens seventy years you know, you know or whatever.
Speaker 2: I forgot the exact line that he says something about seventy.
Speaker 2: Very it's very clear that this is the number to
Speaker 2: be aware of. This is like the calendar system that
Speaker 2: they're talking about. And I just think that that's very
Speaker 2: interesting because it's very shocked to TNTRA, right, Like it's
Speaker 2: very like the Yoni. There's seven you know, sort of
Speaker 2: expressions into finality, I guess, or into it eternity. There's
Speaker 2: one way to describe it in one way, into the diamond,
Speaker 2: but it always is the eighth that's always dependent on
Speaker 2: that secret there's always like a secret one. That's the
Speaker 2: real trick. Yeah, yeah, icenography, right is there's always the
Speaker 2: plus one. There's always like a perception in consciousness that matter.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: And and so now when he gets into the point
Speaker 4: where he can see Medatron, Medatron is sitting in heaven
Speaker 4: basically a Pafio size. And the rabbis they call Medatron
Speaker 4: the little Yahweh or the little y h w H,
Speaker 4: the Yadhya. And Medatron was allowed to sit as a
Speaker 4: scribe writing down.
Speaker 3: All the history of Israel.
Speaker 4: And he is described after his translation as a primordial angel.
Speaker 4: And then I have from Genesis what is it five
Speaker 4: twenty four where basically the quote is Enoch walked with God.
Speaker 4: Then Enoch was no more because God took him away.
Speaker 4: And let's see, now, Christians during this time took Metatron
Speaker 4: to be Jesus or Yeshua himself right as the one
Speaker 4: witness of humankind, because you know, basically Jesus is part
Speaker 4: of God. And they said there couldn't be two gods.
Speaker 4: So to the Christians, if it was you know, that
Speaker 4: heavenly and that high up. And they called him the
Speaker 4: little Yahweh that he was essentially equated in the Christian
Speaker 4: mind to Jesus.
Speaker 3: So I find that interesting as well.
Speaker 2: Well, that makes sense in a bout way as well,
Speaker 2: Like you would have the physical body, you would have
Speaker 2: the quote unquote spiritual body, and then you would have
Speaker 2: the empty body like the Mudha sort of nature. It's
Speaker 2: not really a body, it's not even a consciousness. It's
Speaker 2: just kind of like a ineffable expression of God, you
Speaker 2: could say, like just one of his qualities in loving kindness.
Speaker 2: So that's what it would be. It'd be the three
Speaker 2: KaiA system. So I totally got that. That makes awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so now now we're going to get into the
Speaker 4: book itself, right, And basically the Rabbi ascends and I
Speaker 4: said he injured the six holes, which were situated within
Speaker 4: one another. The holes were concentric circles, one within the other,
Speaker 4: and at the seventh was a door. And they asked Coffskielle,
Speaker 4: the angel of a higher order, who guards the seventh
Speaker 4: door to heaven basically, and he sent h what is it?
Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 4: He God sends Ebid, which is medatron to guide him
Speaker 4: into the seventh door. So once the Rabbi gets to
Speaker 4: the seventh door, he has the plea with this angel
Speaker 4: to allow him to go further. And that's at the
Speaker 4: point when Medatron or Enoch you know, transformed into Medatron,
Speaker 4: comes and guides him into.
Speaker 3: The higher realm.
Speaker 4: And and they call Metatron the Angel of presence.
Speaker 2: This is really interesting because this is like, this is
Speaker 2: something that came up yesterday even is uh what well
Speaker 2: yesterday is in terms of data record? Is that like
Speaker 2: what level are the angels? Like I often think about
Speaker 2: this with Teresa, I discuss discuss it with you. Robbie,
Speaker 2: is like, what is the hierarchy of the angels? Like,
Speaker 2: you know, the archangels aren't that high up, but placed
Speaker 2: a lot of emphasis on them, right, And there are
Speaker 2: a lot of heterodox texts. I'm not saying you have
Speaker 2: to believe them, but there are a lot of heterodox
Speaker 2: TACs that might posit that the angels themselves have especially
Speaker 2: those ones have arconic qualities. And so you know, it's like,
Speaker 2: who are the Arkons? Who are the angel exactly?
Speaker 3: Are they the same thing?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: And in a lot of ways I think that there
Speaker 4: are different arconic forces on different levels that are angelic
Speaker 4: forces that are like you know, basically more building blocks
Speaker 4: of the universe versus messenger forces. Yes, so now let's
Speaker 4: see and and so Enoch or Metatron takes the Rabbi
Speaker 4: and shows him the vision of the Marcaba basically being
Speaker 4: the chariot of fire or the chariot of light. And
Speaker 4: this this Marcaba is pulled by the four living creatures
Speaker 4: which we've talked about before, being the angelic forces with
Speaker 4: the four wings, with the face of a man, a lion,
Speaker 4: an ox, and an eagle.
Speaker 3: And what is it?
Speaker 4: In Ezekiel four twenty six, it mentions three types of
Speaker 4: angels found in the Marcaba, being the Seraphim, the burning
Speaker 4: angels of light, which are the highest order that.
Speaker 3: Power the motion of the Marcaba.
Speaker 4: So it's the Seraphim that are basically powering the motion
Speaker 4: of the movement of the Marcaba, right, and the chariot
Speaker 4: is in constant motion, and the Seraphim order, the Chayat order,
Speaker 4: and then the ophanim order are the three different orders.
Speaker 4: So the Seraphim, the cheat, and the open him and
Speaker 4: all the angels are controlled by the likeness of a
Speaker 4: man on the throne being Metatron himself. So and and
Speaker 4: with these different orders. That's one of the things that E.
Speaker 4: Not three really gets into is these various orders of
Speaker 4: the angels and how they are in regard to superiority
Speaker 4: over one another.
Speaker 5: One thing I do want to mention Metatron, and I
Speaker 5: think all those other angels you like to offer him
Speaker 5: and stuff, I think they all do fit on the
Speaker 5: ametic cabalistic tree, Like Metatron is associated with Cathern, so
Speaker 5: just you know, just tying more stuff to the cabal.
Speaker 3: Right, right.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's a great point because it's like
Speaker 2: showing like maybe there's a higher angelic force or it
Speaker 2: could be a consciousness, like you could say it's your
Speaker 2: own consciousness.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could.
Speaker 2: Say it's like that like Nick's described it, like that
Speaker 2: ineffable experience of love. Mm hm, you know, like that
Speaker 2: salmon pink that comes down like yeah, that could totally
Speaker 2: be a right, It just depends on what you'ressigned.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Let's see now, when Enoch enters into the seventh realm, right,
Speaker 4: all the angels instantly put their focus on the Rabbi, right,
Speaker 4: and the angels they said that they could smell his
Speaker 4: scent from three hundred and sixty five thousand parsings, right,
Speaker 4: And basically they said, what smells like a born woman
Speaker 4: and tastes like a white drop. So here we have
Speaker 4: the the red of the blood and the white. So
Speaker 4: we have some alchemical stuff going on here. And that
Speaker 4: white drop is generally referring to semen. And the angels
Speaker 4: find the scent of the mortals revolting, and they can
Speaker 4: taste the presence of a mortal in the air and
Speaker 4: they find it disgusting.
Speaker 6: So that's a very contract thing, like you can have
Speaker 6: a starfire and the semen, you know in the skulls exactly, yeah,
Speaker 6: I mean, and I know, like cakes of white obviously
Speaker 6: and all that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And it describes these angels as trembling in an
Speaker 4: electric motion and light like they were, and it says
Speaker 4: they were trembling and shuddering almost like everything in this
Speaker 4: realm is literally just in a vibrational state, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean, is what I kind of get out
Speaker 4: of it. And it says, God tell let's see, oh
Speaker 4: he God tells all the angels to close their eyes
Speaker 4: so Enoch will not be so afraid. And you know,
Speaker 4: and then you know this this book really gets into
Speaker 4: the different orders and we talked about, you know, it
Speaker 4: talks about the seraph being the seraphim, the root of
Speaker 4: seraphim being the Hebrew word seraph, which is to burn,
Speaker 4: or the Hebrew saraf, which is a fiery, flying serpent.
Speaker 3: And uh, let's.
Speaker 2: See its wondered Robbie. Sorry to interrupt you. I wondered
Speaker 2: if the seraphs or the seraphim that are described in
Speaker 2: the Western literature are the same things as the tikinis
Speaker 2: described and Himalayan and talk literature or the sky d
Speaker 2: answers right, because they are associated with language. They associated
Speaker 2: with letters, sounds, and they also associate with secret language
Speaker 2: the way they dance, meaning that the way you view
Speaker 2: the word when the flame is when you're reading a
Speaker 2: scroll or whatever, and then the flame is flickering, there's
Speaker 2: a way that the reflection of the letters look. So
Speaker 2: that's a that's a secret language, like a ti language.
Speaker 2: I think you and I asuss that. So you know,
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's like a relationship between that, because
Speaker 2: they are kind of an angelic force, but they're neither asseric,
Speaker 2: meaning they're not really demonic, and they're not really deviic
Speaker 2: either they're not really of the gods or kind of
Speaker 2: either nor it's interesting.
Speaker 4: Right, And I believe there's one part in the Bible
Speaker 4: where Jesus actually appears as a seraphim as well. So yeah,
Speaker 4: and it details in the book that the seraphim right
Speaker 4: because of their burning fire, that any mortal whoever laid
Speaker 4: eyes on one would instantly be incinerated due to its
Speaker 4: effulgent brightness, And that kind of reminds me of the
Speaker 4: story of Dionysus when he's born, you know, and Dionysus's
Speaker 4: mother wants to see the true form of Zeus, and
Speaker 4: when he takes off all his appearances, his his divine
Speaker 4: effulgent light basically incinerates and turns Dionysus's mothered ash, you know.
Speaker 2: So thought's very similar to the Shiva story from the
Speaker 2: Pranas about how he opens his third eye and incinerates Comma,
Speaker 2: but the sort of situation of why that happens is
Speaker 2: a little different. Obviously, it's his wife, not his mother,
Speaker 2: does a spell basically uses Tontra to call the god Comma,
Speaker 2: and so she tells Kama, please go to my husband,
Speaker 2: make me fall and make him fall in love with me,
Speaker 2: so we can, you know, create the universe, and he does.
Speaker 2: And Shiva is an ascetic, so he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be generative. He doesn't want to put it crudely, he
Speaker 2: doesn't want an erection, that's kind of the idea. Doesn't
Speaker 2: want to create the world anymore than he already has.
Speaker 4: So now the other two classes of angels, the cherubub
Speaker 4: or the chair boom, are a tit tread of living
Speaker 4: creatures which we talked about with the four faces. They're
Speaker 4: called the winged ones. They have the hands of man
Speaker 4: and the feet of a calf, with four wings, two
Speaker 4: up and two down, which reminds me of a torsion
Speaker 4: field very much, you know. And then you have the ophenym,
Speaker 4: which are as never sleeping. They watch, They guard the
Speaker 4: throne of God, and the open in Hebrew is a wheel,
Speaker 4: and they're called the many eyed ones, and they carry
Speaker 4: the throne of God, which these ophen remind me of
Speaker 4: the wheels within the wheels with the eyes that are
Speaker 4: spoken of in Ezekiel, you know, let's see. And the
Speaker 4: Hebrew adds an M on the end of words like
Speaker 4: English ads an s on the end of words.
Speaker 3: So if we're gonna.
Speaker 4: Say, you know, apples with the s to make it plural.
Speaker 4: You know, the Hebrew would say the oath the cherub
Speaker 4: or the cherub m or the cher bomb as me
Speaker 4: the difference between the singular cherub and the plural.
Speaker 3: Cherubim, you know, and sure never knew that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And let's see, Medatron has to put the rabbi's
Speaker 4: soul back in his body because he's so afraid as
Speaker 4: that these angelic forces glare at him. And then it says,
Speaker 4: after an hour of timelessness, God opened the gates of
Speaker 4: the Kinda to Enoch. Yeah, and the gates of and
Speaker 4: it calls them. It says, you know, these are the
Speaker 4: gates of understanding, the gates of peace, the gates of wisdom,
Speaker 4: the gates of strength, the gates of power, the gates
Speaker 4: of speech, the gates of song. And as this is
Speaker 4: going on, all of the angels are chanting and singing, Holy, Holy, Holy,
Speaker 4: as these gates of the ch Kinda are open for
Speaker 4: Enoch to view, you know, are open for this rabbi
Speaker 4: to view at the purview of Enoch, you know. And
Speaker 4: then it says God shined his light into the Rabbi's eyes,
Speaker 4: and the rabbi without any conscious effort. He just opened
Speaker 4: his mouth with a song already coming forth from it
Speaker 4: in resonance with all the other angels. So he kind
Speaker 4: of gets subsumed within the vibration and becomes a part
Speaker 4: of it, you know, when God stares him dead in
Speaker 4: the eyes, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, the eye is the organ of well this book
Speaker 2: argues has said, but we would say in contra that
Speaker 2: it's the organ of ogny or fire, and fire is
Speaker 2: the element that watches. You said this in the last episode,
Speaker 2: but I just think it's interesting to sort of revisit that.
Speaker 4: And somebody said, you know, why not Jesus, Why holy,
Speaker 4: holy holy, This holy holy holy chanting within the Hebrew
Speaker 4: diaspora goes back before the time of Jesus. So this
Speaker 4: is kind of a traditional thing that's kind of a
Speaker 4: long standing thing within the the function of the literature itself.
Speaker 5: So real quick, jen, I mean, you mentioned something about
Speaker 5: the eyes, and this is kind of like a burnt
Speaker 5: out thought that I've had before. It was one of
Speaker 5: my stone thoughts when it comes to the eyes. You
Speaker 5: know how like sometimes you'll see people attribute like the
Speaker 5: red and blue spheres for your eyes.
Speaker 1: Actually, Chest said Ingebora.
Speaker 5: I have actually wondered if that has something to do
Speaker 5: with going to to two different types of things going
Speaker 5: on inside your eyes. If you want to look at
Speaker 5: the red when the sun rises, you got a lot
Speaker 5: of red light. But then when you go into the
Speaker 5: back of your eyes where it starts to convert into electricity.
Speaker 5: When we use electronics stuff, you have to worry about
Speaker 5: blue light. I wondered if that has anything to do
Speaker 5: with it.
Speaker 1: It's burnt, but that's.
Speaker 5: Like what is your consciousness, I think, or even depending
Speaker 5: on where you're using your eye, what kind of light
Speaker 5: you're producing, maybe yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to influence your whole like what they
Speaker 2: I guess the asoteric health grows call like bi rhythm
Speaker 2: or whatever. Like absolutely like the way you feel, the
Speaker 2: way you interact with reality. It's very magical in a
Speaker 2: way to like have devices that use blue light and
Speaker 2: sort of change our consciousness to be like more in reciprocal.
Speaker 2: That's what we're receiving almost we're like the feminine thing.
Speaker 2: We're like receiving the blue light from the device rather
Speaker 2: than just from the sort of atmosphere. It's some interesting, right.
Speaker 4: Which is why I think, you know, the idea of
Speaker 4: sun gazing is you know, kind of a I've been
Speaker 4: doing it for like twenty years. I just you know,
Speaker 4: let the sun off to the side, because you are receiving.
Speaker 4: You know that you are the receiver of that divine
Speaker 4: light that is the generative force that keeps this reality alive.
Speaker 5: You know. I think the whole reason behind Crowley's Rush
Speaker 5: or his book Leader Rush. You're supposed to actually be
Speaker 5: going out like full times and staring into like the
Speaker 5: sun or the sky when you do so. I mean,
Speaker 5: I do think, believe it or not, it's the actually
Speaker 5: prime your pineal gland in your eyes for certain colors
Speaker 5: at certain times of the day.
Speaker 1: That's one of my takes on it.
Speaker 2: No, I agree with that. I think that totally makes
Speaker 2: sense because even when you're doing like your basic and
Speaker 2: I talked to you about this neck is like when
Speaker 2: you do the omahun like the you know it'ary like
Speaker 2: middle pillar, kind of like the but the Tondric Buddhist version.
Speaker 2: You're doing it like you're imagining the white light expanding
Speaker 2: in a certain way. You're imagining the red light exploding
Speaker 2: in a certain way, You're imagining the blue light accumulating
Speaker 2: in a specific place in your body, and then you're
Speaker 2: kind of like you know, moving them down into letters,
Speaker 2: and then you're letting it dissolve. So you're like just
Speaker 2: in that, I think it just shows like that those
Speaker 2: are like the fundamental whatever they mean, are the fundamental
Speaker 2: building blocks of like reality, and so the ways that
Speaker 2: we the ways that their input into us and then
Speaker 2: also that we interact with them, it matters. It like
Speaker 2: has some kind of magic, if you want to say,
Speaker 2: like a plus ultra magnetic kind of magical effect. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think so well.
Speaker 4: And now, speaking of the building blocks of the universe, right,
Speaker 4: there's the seventy two ineffable names of God that Enoch
Speaker 4: also has seventy two names, right, and God said it
Speaker 4: was of my love that I put my names in
Speaker 4: him and gave him that much power, you know, as
Speaker 4: far as this representation of humanity. But when you get
Speaker 4: it multiple times, it says Enoch has seventy names, right,
Speaker 4: And when you look into this there's actually the seventy
Speaker 4: names which are derived from the tetragramaton as far as
Speaker 4: the different rearranging letters of the yadhe vade. And then
Speaker 4: it's God himself that calls Enoch youth. So that's seventy
Speaker 4: one names, right, because he is the youngest entity in
Speaker 4: the heavens that's been transformed into an angel.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 4: There's the secret name of Enoch, right, which is the
Speaker 4: seventy second name of Enoch, which is in if you
Speaker 4: look at that Markaba, that is that that vehicle, and
Speaker 4: in Israel they call their tanks Markaba's. But nonetheless it's
Speaker 4: the upper it's the upper facing pyramid with the downward
Speaker 4: facing pyramid, right, So it's a three dimensional shape of
Speaker 4: two pyramids, very alchemical, the fire symbol of fire and
Speaker 4: the symbol of water, and they compress them together. And
Speaker 4: this is the Markaba that Enoch rides around in. And
Speaker 4: on the different crystalline shelves or the different planes of
Speaker 4: the uh the Marcaba itself are all these ineffable names
Speaker 4: that that Enoch and and Yadevade have and somewhere on
Speaker 4: there is this seventy second secret name that if that
Speaker 4: name is said, it will unmake all of reality.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. So we have that exact almost like to
Speaker 2: the t exact multiple stories. There's one from the Bairabitantra
Speaker 2: is very famous. I've said it I think on Rejuk's
Speaker 2: so Nick Show, and also like Onmind many times, is
Speaker 2: that like the time King Cala by Rava, he's the ninth,
Speaker 2: but he's secret, he's fixed in space and he expands
Speaker 2: out into the mandola eight times, but there's really nine, right,
Speaker 2: so and then each one also expands out word nine times,
Speaker 2: so that's seventy two, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 5: It's just doing that math in my head. Dude, I
Speaker 5: was like nine times eight to seventy two and then
Speaker 5: nine times three is twenty seven if you want to
Speaker 5: do the bellag.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's when I was just thinking that shit
Speaker 1: in my head.
Speaker 2: As you said, Yeah, and Bana is the eighth or
Speaker 2: the third supper excuse me, obviously. And then you have
Speaker 2: like that relationship with Hode and then also the relationship
Speaker 2: with net SoC interesting and that's like you know, material
Speaker 2: that's like us in material reality basically those three like
Speaker 2: in kind of like if we're looking up at the sun,
Speaker 2: like we're looking up at different though. Yeah, that's us
Speaker 2: in perception, but we don't really know what the reality
Speaker 2: around us is at that point. I mean we might,
Speaker 2: but you know, I think that for normal people, they
Speaker 2: wouldn't necessarily understand you, Like you have to be in
Speaker 2: relationship with the things that you see in the world,
Speaker 2: and you have to also know their name. So I
Speaker 2: think that's something that Robbie was getting to, is like
Speaker 2: their secret name, Like what is that? And is it
Speaker 2: a four letter name like the yadhey vave? Is it
Speaker 2: five letter name? Because you can also write yade with
Speaker 2: five letters, right and five two five's is ten that
Speaker 2: is the one in the zero. So the sort of
Speaker 2: like the alpha and the omega if you want to
Speaker 2: say it like that, But it's also like the transcendental
Speaker 2: and the imminent. It's it's kind of like the Numanus
Speaker 2: and the material you could say. At the same time,
Speaker 2: it's like the emptiness and like the compassion or the
Speaker 2: love or the you know, whatever you want. So and
Speaker 2: I also thought the idea of the love like he
Speaker 2: it was in God input love into us or can
Speaker 2: that was what its sort of the thread that connects us.
Speaker 2: And this is a very contric idea as well, is
Speaker 2: that there's this well also very holistic, is there's an
Speaker 2: idea of lamed mem to let so love is the
Speaker 2: cause of knowledge. But it's also like as a secret
Speaker 2: meaning where that can refer to the heart of Eve,
Speaker 2: but it's not really talking about Eve as in like
Speaker 2: the primordial ancestor's talking about like our kind of history
Speaker 2: of man. That would be a more gnostic way to
Speaker 2: describe it.
Speaker 4: Well, And Eve carries that branch from the Tree of
Speaker 4: Life when she exits Eden, and I think that branch
Speaker 4: symbolically is kind of the symbol of what you're referring to.
Speaker 1: Jin. Did you say love is the heart of knowledge?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an idea of Path twenty two.
Speaker 5: That is mad un Yeah, because like I you know,
Speaker 5: I've said myself like when I think I have a
Speaker 5: magical experience, what I feel is love, and when you
Speaker 5: know it's over, I do understand things differently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is really weird. Well it's it's you and
Speaker 2: I talked about that.
Speaker 1: Damn. That's some deep ship to me.
Speaker 5: Is you know something I wanted to say before when
Speaker 5: you were talking about the tree and yet I think
Speaker 5: netsc can and Hode It's just my opinion that I
Speaker 5: do think like those two spheres kind of like but
Speaker 5: you know, those two have to start working congruently going
Speaker 5: up the tree. I think kind of like unraveling. This
Speaker 5: sounds silly, but let's say you have like a twist
Speaker 5: tie and or holding the middle of it when you
Speaker 5: started twisting it closed, you kind of have to untwist that,
Speaker 5: you know, and then if you really think about it,
Speaker 5: you kind of have like a whole. You'll even have
Speaker 5: the Masonic arch. Look, you know what, But I think
Speaker 5: it's like as as silly as it sounds, I do
Speaker 5: think and even going by the my vision separating the
Speaker 5: white from the black, I even wonder if it's like
Speaker 5: again like if you had a magnet but somehow it
Speaker 5: got twisted up and you actually have to separate it
Speaker 5: and let it become polarity and separating right.
Speaker 1: Actually wonders like even stuff to that.
Speaker 2: No, that makes sense, that makes sense for like doing
Speaker 2: like pathworking or like I know, people love the seven chakras,
Speaker 2: like and I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying I don't understand it one hundred percent for me
Speaker 2: because we use five. But I think that's also another
Speaker 2: interesting idea is like this is obviously a seven gate text,
Speaker 2: like they even say very specifically, but we also call
Speaker 2: the gates that to call the chakras that and interestingly,
Speaker 2: a chakra is a spinning disc, and so we have
Speaker 2: this idea of the purified spinning disc, which is the
Speaker 2: dipta chakra the shining wheel, and so that is it
Speaker 2: can only be a daughter. That's kind of like the
Speaker 2: interesting idea in Tntra. She's like a compliment to what
Speaker 2: we would call the Bajra Kumara or the Adamantine son.
Speaker 2: So I just think that's something really interesting. You have
Speaker 2: a single point with a spinning wheel. Seems like there's
Speaker 2: something metaphysical, like a one in a zero.
Speaker 5: Yeah, even so it sound like him in a sense
Speaker 5: to m Yeah, spinning it once right, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So now at this point, there are three angels that
Speaker 4: come to accuse this rabbi when he's in heaven. And
Speaker 4: these angels are uza, Aza and Azael, and they basically
Speaker 4: say to God, they say, we told you not to
Speaker 4: make man right in the beginning, right. They're upset, right,
Speaker 4: And God answers. He says, uh, he will carry and
Speaker 4: deliver as his responsibility. And basically this is why he
Speaker 4: let man into heaven. And again the angels say, what
Speaker 4: business does he have, you know, being in heaven. But
Speaker 4: some of the fragments, because we're dealing with various fragments
Speaker 4: that they've kind of pieced together. Say that the angels
Speaker 4: were malak Key or malac petty and as a Zell
Speaker 4: who basically taught sorcery to humankind. And uh, let's see that.
Speaker 4: It says that all three are agents of evil who
Speaker 4: accuse man of sinons And basically these are again we
Speaker 4: talked about how Samuel was still in the heavens. These
Speaker 4: are something in Enoch what was at book one we
Speaker 4: talked about in in the Fourth Heaven where they found
Speaker 4: the fallen Ones. These are again references to the fallen
Speaker 4: ones being in the heavens.
Speaker 2: You know, this makes sense, This makes sense from a
Speaker 2: pronic layer. I mean, the whole idea of the gods
Speaker 2: and the praanas. They are not the gods or the
Speaker 2: vetas it is. Those are those are dad corpses. That's
Speaker 2: even how it's described in Contra like our dad.
Speaker 4: Husks exactly, and it talks about an Enoch one how
Speaker 4: they were dried and kind of frozen, very very husk like.
Speaker 1: You know, actually I heard I've heard you say that.
Speaker 1: That's what I said.
Speaker 5: I like how you used that term for that it's
Speaker 5: very well well said.
Speaker 4: So now well, so within the book, right, God says,
Speaker 4: he says, I delight more in this one than all
Speaker 4: of you put together in regard to the human and
Speaker 4: over the angels in his favor. And he says, he,
Speaker 4: being man, will be a ruler over you in the
Speaker 4: high heavens. So you know, when when the singularity happens
Speaker 4: and the breath is you know, Inhaled, and everything goes
Speaker 4: back to you know, this singular almost nirvana kind of point, essentially,
Speaker 4: will be a higher form than even the arkans or
Speaker 4: the angelic forces within the creation. You know, basically, you know,
Speaker 4: maybe even we're higher than the creation.
Speaker 2: I think that makes sense. I think that makes sense
Speaker 2: a lot for later myssicism, Like you were saying, like
Speaker 2: this was compiled maybe in the three to four hundreds,
Speaker 2: that makes sense. That would have been the earliest Rani
Speaker 2: Tontra is the earliest earliest spell text, Buddhist spell text,
Speaker 2: and there was no real Hinduism then but Buddhism, so
Speaker 2: Buddhist spell text. And then so you have the earlier ideas,
Speaker 2: but then the later ideas like what was coming out
Speaker 2: in the eighth, ninth, tenth, and eleventh century. That is
Speaker 2: where it gets really interesting. Yes, they probably took it
Speaker 2: a little too far disgressive, but I think that you're
Speaker 2: getting into something fundamental because I can't I keep thinking
Speaker 2: of this Buddhist city, Robbie, whenever you're every time you've
Speaker 2: been on is Havajra. So he holds the zodiacs in
Speaker 2: his skull cups. So we were talking about like the
Speaker 2: starfire and the seed of man in the skull cup.
Speaker 2: So in every skull cup he also holds the sort
Speaker 2: of zodiac animal of the fixed stars, and he holds
Speaker 2: thirteen interestingly, not just twelve, as well as the various
Speaker 2: implements of all the gods, meaning that and his wife
Speaker 2: is the she without fixed self, So he is the
Speaker 2: diamonds under breath, and she is without fixed self. She's
Speaker 2: kind of emptiness, right, exactly what you're saying, Like she
Speaker 2: is the true chuckin'aw because she's like, she doesn't have desires.
Speaker 2: She's not like a scarlet woman. She's like at this
Speaker 2: point she is just empty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you're.
Speaker 2: Exactly, it's just like it's just like air. It's like sky.
Speaker 2: I like looking at the pristine sky.
Speaker 3: Right right now. This next.
Speaker 4: This is in chapter five of the book, and I
Speaker 4: found this really interesting, and it talks about since man
Speaker 4: was ejected from Eden, the Chicina, or the Glory of God,
Speaker 4: it says, was dwelling upon a cherub under the tree
Speaker 4: of life, right, and these bands of angels, these groups
Speaker 4: went down to work their will on Earth from the Chicana,
Speaker 4: and the first man and his children were sitting outside
Speaker 4: the gates of the garden. And this is, I think,
Speaker 4: is essentially when we get into that old story of
Speaker 4: Adam and Eve being cast out and they built the
Speaker 4: first hinge, and they're basically under the spot in heaven,
Speaker 4: which could relate to the Polestar as far as you
Speaker 4: go back far enough, and you know, we talked about
Speaker 4: the Polestar with Mario. But nonetheless, from that point where
Speaker 4: Adam and his children were sitting on Earth outside the garden,
Speaker 4: they could see the glowing, bright appearance of the Chicina
Speaker 4: in the heavens, and it unfolded the whole world three
Speaker 4: hundred and sixty five thousand times from end to end,
Speaker 4: which kind of at the time I was thinking, is
Speaker 4: that the bitrate of the rendering of the universe. You
Speaker 4: know what I mean, but the thing was this this light,
Speaker 4: this effulgent light shining down on the earth. It basically
Speaker 4: put mankind into a state of purity where they could
Speaker 4: not become sick, where they could not like they they
Speaker 4: face no ills within the material world right and and
Speaker 4: basically it reminded me very much of the Saturnian Golden Age,
Speaker 4: when you know, nature took care of humanity and like
Speaker 4: everything was you know, bright and golden and pure, and
Speaker 4: it it basically came to the point where the offspring
Speaker 4: of the humans began to sin so much and began
Speaker 4: to worship you know, representations of the God. And this
Speaker 4: upset you know, yade Vade, and he basically he pulled
Speaker 4: himself from the earth, which took away the light of
Speaker 4: the Chicina shining down on the humans. And this is
Speaker 4: when humans began to be able to get sick and
Speaker 4: be be you know, started having these detrimental things, you know,
Speaker 4: like what is it Hora Mazda, you know, talks about
Speaker 4: all the miscellaneous nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, you know,
Speaker 4: demons that intercede and cause all the sicknesses and the deaths.
Speaker 4: It's almost like this Chicina light was holding off all
Speaker 4: of these forces of coorason from entering in and kind
Speaker 4: of perturbing the existence of.
Speaker 3: The human you know what I mean. And then it
Speaker 3: was taken away.
Speaker 2: So that reminds me again of our discussion on Shukra
Speaker 2: or the planet Venus and how that is he was
Speaker 2: the deity who gave us immortality. So like even Nick
Speaker 2: was describing that kind of relationship between Mercury and Venus
Speaker 2: or Hode and not talk. They have to kind of
Speaker 2: be moving. It kind of has to be dynamic, can't
Speaker 2: be kind of any blockages. And what makes you have
Speaker 2: blockages is your kind of like your impulses and your desires,
Speaker 2: so you have to keep it all together, ye part yeah,
Speaker 2: but yeah, super I thought that it's interesting because that
Speaker 2: is how it's sort of described. But then she goes
Speaker 2: away to the carnal ground of his own choice, So
Speaker 2: you could say God dies of his own desire. Yes,
Speaker 2: but she's still here. She just maybe forgets who she
Speaker 2: wants to be or what she's meant to be doing.
Speaker 4: See I almost relate that with the Leviathan in regard
Speaker 4: to the feminine personification crystallizing into reality. And she's here,
Speaker 4: and she kind of forgot, but at the same time
Speaker 4: she is and exists within all you know. But I
Speaker 4: found this part here. It says, and the humans brought
Speaker 4: down the Sun and the Moon and the planets and
Speaker 4: the constellations, placing them on idols right and left to
Speaker 4: attend the idol as the planet do the Holy One.
Speaker 4: And basically God got upset that we were starting to
Speaker 4: worship the stars and the various idols that were brought
Speaker 4: forth out of that, you know.
Speaker 2: Interestingly, the planetary nov graja worship has died out largely
Speaker 2: in India except in a few temples in the south,
Speaker 2: so only Shaivite temples will have the full nine. We
Speaker 2: use nine deities in tantra for the nine planets. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so basically they it is lower but on a popular level,
Speaker 2: and I think this is also true with popular astrology,
Speaker 2: is that a lot of the people do worship planets.
Speaker 2: Because worship isn't just doing like a puja or saying
Speaker 2: the name of the planet over and over as like
Speaker 2: a mantra. But worship of the planets is like believing
Speaker 2: they're real. To steal something from Nick, like.
Speaker 5: I was just gonna say that just believing they they're
Speaker 5: they're real on the story, attributing it to your your
Speaker 5: your world.
Speaker 2: Mhmm, yeah, they do they control you? Or are they immutable?
Speaker 2: Are they changeable? Is it like transmutation?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: One of the things I found interesting that and it's
Speaker 4: you know, Elijah is mentioned and in Jewish mystical writings,
Speaker 4: Elijah is equal to Enoch, and I think within Christian
Speaker 4: metaphysical writings you will have Elijah equated with Jesus in
Speaker 4: some cases. So again we have this diametric kind of
Speaker 4: connection between Enoch and Jesus and Elijah in that sense.
Speaker 3: You know. Let's see, so.
Speaker 4: The gates of Heaven open to Metatron, three hundred thousand gates,
Speaker 4: love and mercy and wisdom, chicana power. Let's see, Enoch
Speaker 4: receives the blessing from the most High and grows to
Speaker 4: the size of all reality and has wings placed on
Speaker 4: him and receives So yeah, Enoch basically grows to the
Speaker 4: size of all of physical reality, has wings placed on him,
Speaker 4: and receives three hundred and sixty five eyes in the
Speaker 4: chapter nine. Let's see, there's one of the things I
Speaker 4: want to get to in here, because we're only on
Speaker 4: I'm only on chapter ten and we got forty eight chapters.
Speaker 4: So yeah, this book three ended up. So I have
Speaker 4: this notebook and book one and two. My notes took
Speaker 4: up half and book three took up the rest of
Speaker 4: the book. So Enoch three is a little bit longer
Speaker 4: than the other ones.
Speaker 1: It's just like a year it's gonna takes.
Speaker 4: So let's see it says in chapter ten. God places
Speaker 4: Medatron on a throne as ruler in the seventh and
Speaker 4: it calls it a hole, right, which is interesting, and
Speaker 4: builds Medatron a throne made of the same energetic forces
Speaker 4: as the one that God fits on himself. And God
Speaker 4: puts a blanket with stars upon it over Metatron and
Speaker 4: announces him in all realms as his servant and over
Speaker 4: all the angels except the yadi Wahe. Right, So now
Speaker 4: this yadi Wahe they are eight beings that are outside
Speaker 4: of the angelic orders, and they are highly ranked, which
Speaker 4: God uses as his own personal counsel. And he instructs
Speaker 4: all the angels to question Medatron and no longer bring
Speaker 4: their questions to him, and Medatron is given the final
Speaker 4: word on all decisions as if it were God's, and
Speaker 4: he sets Metatron over all the storehouses of heaven being
Speaker 4: the storehouse of rain, the storehouse of dew, and even
Speaker 4: the guph itself that contains all the souls of humanity
Speaker 4: that will ever come into existence.
Speaker 2: I want to let you continue, Robbie, but really quick,
Speaker 2: I want to say the blanket and the veil symbolism.
Speaker 2: I thought that interesting as well as it relates to
Speaker 2: your story from a little bit previous of the sort
Speaker 2: of like where God's light was dimmed, you could say,
Speaker 2: or the Schuchinau's light specifically was dimmed in our reality.
Speaker 2: I think that you could also understand that as like
Speaker 2: I was thinking in my mind, like ignorance, Like that's
Speaker 2: what we consider like the first sin in Buddhism, because
Speaker 2: like we don't know what the world is. But that's
Speaker 2: not necessarily our fault. But if you if you know,
Speaker 2: then there's more charmic implication. So ignorance is kind of
Speaker 2: like the worst kind of sin, but then it's also
Speaker 2: like one of the hardest too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, at this point, the Rabbi talks about God reveals
Speaker 4: all the secrets to Metatron. He says, all the mysteries
Speaker 4: of the Torah, all the secrets of wisdom, the deep
Speaker 4: mysteries of the perfect Law, revealed the thoughts of all
Speaker 4: living beings, all the secrets of the universe, all the
Speaker 4: secrets of creation, before man thought a thought in secret.
Speaker 4: So Na or Medatron, he's talking to the rabbit and
Speaker 4: he says, before man thought a thought in secret, I
Speaker 4: saw it before man made a thing. I watched it,
Speaker 4: and there was nothing in the depth of the world
Speaker 4: which was hidden from me. So it's kind of a
Speaker 4: timeless you know, seeing all time encapsulated into a singular.
Speaker 5: Hole makes me think, like, haven't the experience of like
Speaker 5: second sight of all seeing?
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, almost like he becomes the eye of Providence.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: So then God puts a crown on him, calls him
Speaker 4: the yet lesser Yadeva, and God made garments affixed with
Speaker 4: lights upon it, garments of glory and a robe of honor,
Speaker 4: and a crown of royalty with forty nine stones worth
Speaker 4: like orbs of the sun. So you have forty nine
Speaker 4: which is basically the whole seven times seven being the
Speaker 4: spiritual perfection, you know.
Speaker 2: And then uh, star rubies maybe star. Yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: very that's very Joe Tesh. Yeah, I know. Coley wrote
Speaker 2: about it, but it's very calm and Joe tish the
Speaker 2: stone of the Sun is a ruby, and so if
Speaker 2: you're using it in a tontric way, you'd want a
Speaker 2: star ruby. So I just think that's that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and let's see uh splendor all the way to
Speaker 4: the fork. So basically, his splendor is shown all the
Speaker 4: way to the four corners of creation and through the
Speaker 4: seven heavens. And then God writes with his finger as
Speaker 4: a flaming pin on Metatron's crown, the letters by which
Speaker 4: heaven and Earth were created, letters flashing out time after
Speaker 4: time like lightning. And basically I think this is the
Speaker 4: twenty two letters of the Hebrew alphabet that he inscribed
Speaker 4: upon the crown. And all of the highest princess and
Speaker 4: the lowest angels trembled in sight of Metatron crowned. They
Speaker 4: shook and trembled in fear. And then you know you
Speaker 4: have within the Zohar talking about Samuel is the ruling
Speaker 4: angel over the Satans or accusers, and Samuel, interestingly they
Speaker 4: talk about in this text being the angel over Rome itself.
Speaker 2: You know, well that makes sense because what would be
Speaker 2: the most clipolithic activity. Yes, you do gevera would be
Speaker 2: to accuse other people of sins that you yourself were
Speaker 2: props also guilty of.
Speaker 3: Guilty of yes mirroring yes.
Speaker 2: And U.
Speaker 4: Let's see it says the angels of the rulers of
Speaker 4: the world. Gabriel is the angel of fire, and brad
Speaker 4: l L is the ruler who controls Hal and rouch
Speaker 4: L controls the wind, brock Al controls the lightning, zahaf
Speaker 4: L controls winds of the storm, rah home Al controls
Speaker 4: the thunders, rajash Al controls the earthquakes. Cha'ah Giel controls
Speaker 4: the snow, mah toad L controls the rain, Shimshiel controls
Speaker 4: the planets, ra hot t L controls the constellations. And
Speaker 4: it just goes on and on and on with all
Speaker 4: these different angels that are basically controlling all of these forces.
Speaker 4: And they all bound bowed down and fell to the
Speaker 4: ground when they saw a Medatron crowned, and they could
Speaker 4: not look at Metatron because of his because of the
Speaker 4: majestic glory on his head.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to add that Nick brought up something
Speaker 2: really interesting in the chat about how like giving names
Speaker 2: to God actually deglorifies God. I think this is a
Speaker 2: very like very deep but also like it appears in
Speaker 2: the literature, but it's never said explicitly. There's always kind
Speaker 2: of an implication. It's implied and like you have to
Speaker 2: kind of get it. And then you're like, Okay, the
Speaker 2: name is not to be like misused, it's not to
Speaker 2: be like really spoken. Maybe it's not even like a name.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just like a sound. Maybe it's a perception.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's like color or you know, something you see.
Speaker 2: It's not really a thing. It doesn't really exist like
Speaker 2: in our kind of reality. So I thought that was
Speaker 2: really interesting just to go with your point, Lobby.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and you go back into the Hebrew philosophy itself.
Speaker 3: And then the the.
Speaker 4: Name of God was never to be spoken aloud, and
Speaker 4: it was you know, inscribed in in the Holy of Holies,
Speaker 4: And there was this whole idea that by saying it
Speaker 4: like you were saying, you you took power away from
Speaker 4: it in the sense that it was and and and
Speaker 4: that was the thing, really though, is what it was about.
Speaker 4: Was that name. That is the representation. It cannot even
Speaker 4: begin to encompass what that thing is. And by saying
Speaker 4: that name, you're misleading and thereby kind of defrauding what
Speaker 4: the thing itself is.
Speaker 2: One hundred yeah, one hundred percent. This is like a
Speaker 2: very if you look at like the Buddhist discourses from
Speaker 2: like a Nepal and Tibet from like the eighth till
Speaker 2: seventeenth century, which is the most famous period, this is
Speaker 2: what they're talking about. This is what they're fighting with
Speaker 2: the Indians about. This is what I fight with the
Speaker 2: Indians about. This is you know, it's this is the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like, Shiva is the mind if you really understand,
Speaker 2: it's really the mind. He's really you're looking at yourself
Speaker 2: in a way. You're just not at pristine consciousness, at
Speaker 2: turquoise consciousness. But that's really what it is. It's like
Speaker 2: it's not, yeah, it's God, but it's you know, there's
Speaker 2: it's it's something a little closer to our reality, which
Speaker 2: is like you and your experiences and your perceptions and
Speaker 2: your reality and all that.
Speaker 3: Very hermetic in a sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's kind of the point of
Speaker 2: a lot of religion is like to remind you that,
Speaker 2: like there are these hermineutic kind of ideas that you
Speaker 2: can use to gain further understanding. But you have to
Speaker 2: kind of like let go of what you sort of
Speaker 2: held fixed in reality. And so that's kind of the
Speaker 2: problem with a lot of like very fixed religious uh things,
Speaker 2: is that people It's not that I think it's bad.
Speaker 2: It's that I think that people like priests all of that,
Speaker 2: they they forget like what the real purpose is, so
Speaker 2: they just perform it as like a rogue outer. You
Speaker 2: see a lot of this with a lot of magicians.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying like everyone, but you know a
Speaker 2: lot of them do this. Is that they'll you know,
Speaker 2: they'll do the Yeah, they'll do the performance. It's like
Speaker 2: the words, the sword, the rogue, all that. It's you know,
Speaker 2: it's like that's not really what it's about. It's about
Speaker 2: like you have to like really mean it. You have
Speaker 2: to understand the things. You have to you know, do
Speaker 2: the work, as the kids say. So, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that that's the point, is that it's the it's the work,
Speaker 2: it's the doing, it's the proxis, it's not the you know,
Speaker 2: it's not just the outer ritual, right right. And I
Speaker 2: think that's a problem with like the priests like GoF
Speaker 2: and you talk about them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So now at this point, Metatron is transformed into fire,
Speaker 4: and it says, his muscles into flaming fire, his bones
Speaker 4: into coals of juniper wood, the light of his eyelids
Speaker 4: into hot flames, all of his limbs into wings of
Speaker 4: burning fire, and all the whole into glowing fire. On
Speaker 4: his right flames burned and divided, and on his left
Speaker 4: left wooden staves, staves of burning fire. The winds of
Speaker 4: the storms and tempests blowing with roaring thunder in front
Speaker 4: and behind, accompanied by earthquakes. So you know, just the
Speaker 4: visualization of this scene is very very you know, if
Speaker 4: before modern entertainment everything, you know, I would imagine this
Speaker 4: would get people will shook, you know in the you know,
Speaker 4: in the sense of the word, the true sense of
Speaker 4: the word.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a comic book, That's what it reminds
Speaker 2: me of. Like it's very like not it's not a
Speaker 2: post internet comic book, but like maybe you could say
Speaker 2: like sixties seventies, like kind of that Silver Age era,
Speaker 2: and like I could see it, like we were talking about,
Speaker 2: like the earthquakes, like that's stuff we visualize. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's called the outer disharmonies, like the lightning,
Speaker 2: the fire, like, yeah, we use all of that, like
Speaker 2: you use all of those things as tools. So there's
Speaker 2: like a lot of zoomers are talking about. I think
Speaker 2: it's kind of weird, but you know, I'm a millennial.
Speaker 2: I'm a little older. So the kids are gonna, you know,
Speaker 2: do their things, and they use anime now something that
Speaker 2: they're often talking about to do like magical visualization, right right.
Speaker 2: I know, weird, but it is kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: And so, you know, I don't even mean to get
Speaker 4: off topic, but I've been watching all the Star Wars
Speaker 4: in order and I'm on the very last. It's called Visions,
Speaker 4: and they took like some of the top animators. But
Speaker 4: the third one in that Vision series, it has a
Speaker 4: lot of this just phenomenal quaking and shaking and fire
Speaker 4: and like sparks and like it. You know, I thoroughly
Speaker 4: enjoyed the third one of the Vision series of Star Wars,
Speaker 4: which I think kind of equates to some of this
Speaker 4: like inherent kind of like ascended kind of God form material.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I think that this makes a lot
Speaker 2: of sense in terms of like what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: The very beginning is just like you're not God, but
Speaker 2: there are all these like as I call them, the
Speaker 2: outer dis harmonies, or these things outside of you that
Speaker 2: are the you're the cause of maybe an earthquake, lightning, fire,
Speaker 2: all that those are like your emotions, but they're also
Speaker 2: these kind of chaotic elements that you have to kind
Speaker 2: of rock and sile or rectifying. That's an interesting kind
Speaker 2: of word, yeah, barate, and you have to kind of
Speaker 2: bring those elements back in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's definitely something that is
Speaker 4: missing in a lot of modern media, you know, as
Speaker 4: far as the things that they seek to project into
Speaker 4: people's minds. You know, it's very homogenized, you know, interestingly.
Speaker 2: But fiction is the greatest magic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fiction is the greatest magic. The storyteller, the bard,
Speaker 4: you know, the one that you know opens the door
Speaker 4: within the fire so that you can see the mystic.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, definitely, definitely, and that's kind of you know,
Speaker 4: us as podcasters, we are kind of the modern day storytellers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So now in chapter eighteen, it establishes the order
Speaker 4: of the Angels, and it says there are seventy ange
Speaker 4: with two angels over them being Michael and Gabrielle. So
Speaker 4: then you have basically the sacred numbers of seventy and
Speaker 4: seventy two incorporated. Right, And it says, uh, and there
Speaker 4: was that in regard to the marcaba, one of the
Speaker 4: angels that was basically lifting the marcaba so that it
Speaker 4: could move. He only used three fingers, and it was
Speaker 4: it was a measure. It was a thing of measure
Speaker 4: in regard to time space, I guess. But then it
Speaker 4: talks about uh so fad hey YadA hey wa hey,
Speaker 4: and this so fad hey YadA hey wa hey is
Speaker 4: he who kills He who controls the books of the dead,
Speaker 4: and everyone's name is written in the Book of the
Speaker 4: Dead by him, and this so fad hey yah Wade
Speaker 4: who controls the books of the dead. He also is
Speaker 4: the one who makes alive, the life giver, the lord
Speaker 4: over the Book of life, who writes everyone, everyone, the
Speaker 4: most high who is allowed to live into the Book
Speaker 4: of life. And one stands on a wheel of tempest
Speaker 4: and the other on the wheel of the wind of
Speaker 4: the storm, and both in kingly garments in mantles of majesty,
Speaker 4: and both their bodies are full of eyes, and both
Speaker 4: appear as lightning.
Speaker 3: M Yeah, right, so.
Speaker 2: Over water you'd have a very like that's very I
Speaker 2: Nick and I have even talked about this on this
Speaker 2: on like the reducts many times. It's that that's kind
Speaker 2: of like where perception happens, like a part of hesside
Speaker 2: that people don't they just think, oh, yeah, the outer
Speaker 2: it's just mercy, it is just this. But no, that's
Speaker 2: like where that's where you're seeing things for the first
Speaker 2: time and you're kind of like, that's why it's also lightning.
Speaker 2: That's also like that kind of lightning strike, that very
Speaker 2: Edison sort of cliche. That's also why we think of
Speaker 2: it like that, like Benjamin Franklin with the key and
Speaker 2: the lightning strike, Like it's an idea too, right, And.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that early Benjamin Franklin idea of him discovering quote
Speaker 4: unquote lightning. You know, lightning is something that's you know,
Speaker 4: you go back to the ancient ascended masters calling down lightning.
Speaker 4: Some suppose that Zoraster was calling down lightning and mistakenly,
Speaker 4: you know, fried himself. There were there were Roman emperors
Speaker 4: that were trying to call down lightning and they did
Speaker 4: kill themselves in the process. So you know, this this
Speaker 4: thing of the discovery of lightning it's inherent, this fire
Speaker 4: that you know has been talked about, played with, used
Speaker 4: all through eons. You know, it's yeah, but I do
Speaker 4: find it interesting of equating Benjamin Franklin with this sort
Speaker 4: of you know, alchemical fire from heaven that is softer
Speaker 4: than water and harder than stone.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I thought it was really interesting Robbie
Speaker 2: that because you know, there's something pristine, Like we talked
Speaker 2: about about lightning, Like there's like a color quality that's
Speaker 2: like clear, but it's kind of blueish, but it can
Speaker 2: also appear as pink, like they supposedly recently discovered spectral
Speaker 2: lightning in twenty fourteen, So that's pink lightning that we
Speaker 2: can actually see supposedly, and you can only capture it
Speaker 2: on these kind of spectral cameras. But they're supposedly like
Speaker 2: currents running throughout anytime there's a storm, there's these kind
Speaker 2: of horizontal kind of arrows you could say, of light
Speaker 2: that are running concurrently to the horizontal or the excuse me,
Speaker 2: the vertical lightning. So I think that's you know, there's
Speaker 2: a I think there's a lot we don't know about it.
Speaker 2: I think that yes, you can take it in that
Speaker 2: more Tartarian way, like, oh, it's plasma energy. But you know,
Speaker 2: in Buddhism, we really love the vajra, like we really
Speaker 2: love lightning, so we would say that it's actually something
Speaker 2: that's always present in the world, and it's something you
Speaker 2: have to cultivate in yourself first and then you can
Speaker 2: learn to call it down, which is just your pristine consciousness.
Speaker 2: So like, yes, it can exist outwardly as a phenomenon,
Speaker 2: but it should always be internal as like a sort
Speaker 2: of consciousness process, like something that's always prosine. It's like
Speaker 2: a dragon. It's always moving, but it's always kind of
Speaker 2: like clear ice or turquoise or whatever. I don't know,
Speaker 2: just an interesting idea.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I'm trying to skin over the notes.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I I think so yeah, so no, it's
Speaker 2: all good.
Speaker 3: It's all good.
Speaker 4: Now I'm skipping ahead here to chapter twenty six, and
Speaker 4: it talks about the prints of the seraphime. They had
Speaker 4: a face like an angel, a body like an eagle,
Speaker 4: his beauty like sparks like the light of Venus. The
Speaker 4: light from the eyebrows are seven times brighter. This is
Speaker 4: where the chisamel, which is the fiery substance which makes
Speaker 4: the pillars on which the world rests. It is the
Speaker 4: substance or the life form that illuminates Ezekiel's chariot vision.
Speaker 4: The seraph on his head as a large oh, the
Speaker 4: sapphire on his head as a large oh, is as
Speaker 4: large as the entire unit verse, and body full of
Speaker 4: eyes like stars, and he is called Sarafael Yadhevade, who
Speaker 4: is the prince of peace and rules over the flame
Speaker 4: in Seraphim teaches them to sing praise, proclaim the beauty
Speaker 4: and the majesty of the King with four faces and
Speaker 4: six wings. And then they call them seraphim because they burn,
Speaker 4: which we had talked about. And then there's this discussion
Speaker 4: of the writing table of Satan, which I find very interesting.
Speaker 4: And it says that every day Satan Samael the Prince
Speaker 4: of Rome, and Dubayel, the Prince of Persia, basically write
Speaker 4: down all the sins of Israel, which they hand over
Speaker 4: to the Seraphim to present to the Holy One himself,
Speaker 4: so that he should eliminate and destroy Israel from the
Speaker 4: world right. And it says, but the Seraphim receives the
Speaker 4: tablets from Satan, and they burn them in a burning fire,
Speaker 4: so that the tablet should not come before the Holy
Speaker 4: One on the throne of judgment. And it basically says
Speaker 4: that Satan and Samael cannot approach the throne of God,
Speaker 4: and the Seraphim are assigned to take their complaints and
Speaker 4: burns as the and and basically they take their complaints
Speaker 4: and burn them as God does not wish to punish Israel.
Speaker 4: So I found that interesting within the text itself, you know, just.
Speaker 2: Very interesting, Robbie from sorry to interrupt, from a contract perspective,
Speaker 2: just because that we consider it, like the liturgical words
Speaker 2: are to be burned in the fire. That's how to
Speaker 2: make them primorial again, that's how to like rectify the name,
Speaker 2: put it back together, right, if you have to burn
Speaker 2: them in the fire. So just I was, you know,
Speaker 2: as we're saying, this is an earlier kind of mystical idea,
Speaker 2: but also relating to the medieval, also relating to contemporary
Speaker 2: magic for sure, right.
Speaker 4: And then I have a note here that Semiel, right,
Speaker 4: he's called the host of poison, he's a fallen angel,
Speaker 4: he's called the Angel of Rome, the Angel of death.
Speaker 4: But he is still a servant of God and he
Speaker 4: is chief of the fifth heaven, so back to you know,
Speaker 4: the the left hand of God essentially.
Speaker 2: You know, there's also an interesting idea that Kattoo the
Speaker 2: snake or the tail excuse me, of the dragon, the
Speaker 2: smoky he sometimes pretends to be Mars. So in a
Speaker 2: tontric way, we would say that like he's still on,
Speaker 2: like the serpent is still on the tree, because he's
Speaker 2: still like in the astrological sort of sense, he's still there.
Speaker 2: So you know, like that temptation is not like fixed
Speaker 2: in time that like that story of Genesis. It's like
Speaker 2: it moves through space and time because people believe it, right,
Speaker 2: So like the temptation or whatever, like the serpent's always there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: time just into like drawing from the flame. That's sort
Speaker 2: of right.
Speaker 4: Well, and I've even seen that within ancient Mayan philosophy
Speaker 4: that we're actually devoured by the serpent and the processing
Speaker 4: through the digestion of the serpent is the movement of
Speaker 4: time space in our lifetime. And then we basically exit
Speaker 4: the reality, you know, when we're defecated back into the pleroma.
Speaker 3: What other word am I going to use? You know,
Speaker 3: it's like.
Speaker 1: It was perfect, Yeah, it's so poetic.
Speaker 4: Hey, I try, you know, I got kids. I try
Speaker 4: not to be too crude. No, yeah, because there was
Speaker 4: a day you know where Hey, you know, I was
Speaker 4: worse than a sailor. So, but I'm getting to be
Speaker 4: an old man, so I try to be a little better.
Speaker 1: Maybe I just got tired of using the same words,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's right.
Speaker 4: Well, and the more words you have, you know, the
Speaker 4: more descriptive you do things. And you know, and it's
Speaker 4: funny because uh yeah, anyway, anyway, I'll just keep going.
Speaker 3: Let's see.
Speaker 4: So now, Chapter twenty seven discusses wad Worrial, who is
Speaker 4: the keeper of the Book of Records, and he is
Speaker 4: above all the seraphim. He rules over the treasures of
Speaker 4: the Books of the Records or the books of remembrance.
Speaker 4: He's an angelic scribe that is fluent in reading and writing,
Speaker 4: and he reads the book in the House of Justice.
Speaker 4: He curries all the writings and brings the books of
Speaker 4: the Records to the Holy One, and the Lord takes
Speaker 4: them from his hands and gives them to the scribes.
Speaker 4: And for every word going out of his mouth, an
Speaker 4: angel is created.
Speaker 2: This goes along with the idea of the Shakunah in
Speaker 2: a tontric ways, the singular goddess produces all sixty four
Speaker 2: through light. It's like an expression of light. So they're
Speaker 2: all her, even if they don't know that they're her,
Speaker 2: or they're maybe not supreme like her, but they're like
Speaker 2: worldly expressions you could say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: So now back to that star wars I was talking
Speaker 4: about envisions. It was called the twins, right, And here
Speaker 4: in the Book of Enoch they talk about these two
Speaker 4: twins right, and they're called yad Ann and kar Ashen,
Speaker 4: which are the watchers and the holy ones, and they
Speaker 4: are greater than any of the heavenly children. Their face
Speaker 4: is a reflection of the brilliance of the Chicana. They
Speaker 4: are two twins, and they bring to the ground those.
Speaker 3: Who are proud.
Speaker 4: The books of the living and the Dead are opened
Speaker 4: in front of him, and all are quaking and afraid.
Speaker 4: They are in awe and they shake. The two pairs
Speaker 4: of angels basically holding all of angelic power, and sometimes
Speaker 4: they are seen as a large group of angels, but
Speaker 4: they are always represented in pairs, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, it's very tomeil right, like from the Clippalithic tree
Speaker 2: like it's the twins, right, And so I was just
Speaker 2: even thinking like when you were now, because it's the
Speaker 2: first time I've really heard someone else speak that story.
Speaker 2: I've read it, but I didn't really click for me.
Speaker 2: But when you said it, it did. Is that you
Speaker 2: have to actually kind of know this like a heterodox
Speaker 2: Jewish mysticism to understand a lot of the Clybalithic ideas,
Speaker 2: like where they're coming from at least like why they
Speaker 2: derived like those like the twins, like it, that's not
Speaker 2: a normative biblical idea, right, Like that has to come
Speaker 2: from somewhere.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, within the zodiac you have Gemini, you
Speaker 4: have Castro and Pollock. There is a a belief by
Speaker 4: some people. I think it's based on the apocryphal Book
Speaker 4: of Thomas that Jesus was actually a twin with Thomas,
Speaker 4: who whose name means twin, and that there's this whole
Speaker 4: idea and this goes back into ancient sacrifice and the
Speaker 4: cult of the Twin, where they would have two chill
Speaker 4: children and they would keep one hidden, and they would
Speaker 4: raise one up as a leader, and then they would
Speaker 4: assassinate him in front of everyone, and then you know,
Speaker 4: they would have basically have the three days of rest,
Speaker 4: very much like the sun getting into Nimrod worship, and
Speaker 4: then after the three days they would resurrect and bring
Speaker 4: forth this second twin as the resurrected you know, God,
Speaker 4: King Man. So the twin is you know, when you
Speaker 4: start looking into the ideas of twins, there's some very
Speaker 4: interesting stuff to find.
Speaker 2: The twins are really interesting because I feel like this
Speaker 2: idea of thirteen, twenty two and four has come up
Speaker 2: like a lot in this episode, and I just think
Speaker 2: that those are very interesting cabalistic numbers, especially looking at
Speaker 2: their cosmology.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So now when we get into chapter thirty one, they
Speaker 4: speak specifically on the idea is of mercy, justice and truth,
Speaker 4: and Metatron says that when the Lord is on the
Speaker 4: throne of judgment, justice is standing on his right, and
Speaker 4: mercy is standing on his left, and the truth is
Speaker 4: in front of his face, and for judgment of mankind,
Speaker 4: truth is in front of his face, for the judgment
Speaker 4: of mankind. And when man falls upon his face, all
Speaker 4: the angels of destruction are fearful and they shake before him.
Speaker 3: But these.
Speaker 4: These forces on the sides of the throne. When God
Speaker 4: is upon the throne being justice and mercy being the
Speaker 4: left and the right. I think we're really getting into
Speaker 4: the idea of the pillars here.
Speaker 5: I think, so, yeah, there was a lot of stuff
Speaker 5: within this that I thought the reason why we go
Speaker 5: back to cabalistic ideas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fundamentals, and like I want to say,
Speaker 2: there's also an astro theological layer that also obviously aligns
Speaker 2: perfectly with the cabalistic idea, because you could say, like
Speaker 2: in a gross way, maybe it's not like the true meaning,
Speaker 2: but you could say, like, Okay, that's Jupiter. He's talking
Speaker 2: about the truth. Okay, that's your so it's it's the moon.
Speaker 2: You could say, you know, like you could make an
Speaker 2: astro theological art, yeah, chart from what he's saying, but
Speaker 2: you could also apply it to the cabalistic tree. I
Speaker 2: think that's what's interesting about the three of us together specifically,
Speaker 2: is because we kind of do look at it like that,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people are like, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: They they're not hearing it, but I think hearing us
Speaker 2: discuss it, I think that's what makes it really interesting, right.
Speaker 4: And I think also when you look at the ideas
Speaker 4: of mercy and justice, the essential folkrum that both of
Speaker 4: those balance on and and basically create equity within is
Speaker 4: the truth itself. So so truth is directly in front
Speaker 4: of God's face as he judges, where mercy and justice
Speaker 4: are on the sides. So it's essential for mercy and
Speaker 4: justice to be able to function, to be dealing with
Speaker 4: the truth itself.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And like even what you said is very metaphysically profound,
Speaker 2: very cabalistically, we have justice is the twenty second path.
Speaker 2: So Nick and I spoke about this at the very beginning,
Speaker 2: so it's very interesting to come back all the way around.
Speaker 2: You would say, the expression of the light is through
Speaker 2: the gode of like Hode, but the path between Hode
Speaker 2: and giver is blocked, so it has to go a
Speaker 2: different route, right, So it's like coming around and it
Speaker 2: has to like say, you know, like the motion like
Speaker 2: Neck was talking about, like the twist tie. That's kind
Speaker 2: of what it has to do. It kind of has
Speaker 2: to twist tie all the way around back to where
Speaker 2: the original pathway is, which is that twenty second path.
Speaker 2: So it's like the light where is it looking, Yes,
Speaker 2: you could say it's at Tipperith, or you could say
Speaker 2: it's like looking past and it's looking at Jupiter or Hesse.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like the heart of excuse me, the
Speaker 2: heart of Hesse is the spark of glory, is the
Speaker 2: spark of splendor. This is a very common cabalistic idea,
Speaker 2: is that those two things must always work together. And
Speaker 2: then you're saying, like truth, well, that is very forty nine.
Speaker 2: That's very like, you know, it's very liber forty nine.
Speaker 2: That's very babylon Daughter. That's like, you know, that's sort
Speaker 2: of that path of the truth is like it comes
Speaker 2: from the moon, there comes from your soap. So everything
Speaker 2: that you're saying, Robbie is very like it's hitting a
Speaker 2: lot of things for me because I think about this
Speaker 2: figure as I think, you know, is the Nuria and
Speaker 2: this like kind of daughter figure who's kind of like
Speaker 2: not really the mother and she's you know, not bound
Speaker 2: by the conventions so much, but she's more in compliment
Speaker 2: to the sun. So it's again very sisky, very like
Speaker 2: divine twins. But obviously, because I'm Buddhist, I take it
Speaker 2: more as like empty, like it's I don't think it's
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, it's not just it's not the
Speaker 2: people like in the heaven it's like, sure, yeah, that
Speaker 2: can be true too, but I take it more as
Speaker 2: like it's a conceptual idea, like a story story, right.
Speaker 4: For you to gain higher understanding of right, move and
Speaker 4: work within the realm that you exist within.
Speaker 2: That's right because really, like to bring it back to
Speaker 2: something you said, it's love. It's like the you know,
Speaker 2: it's like that's the med. That's what that's what the
Speaker 2: Hebrew letter is even talking about. It's like, right, you
Speaker 2: have to like let things go, love them, not not
Speaker 2: you know, don't grasp the lightning too hard. You just
Speaker 2: want to like kind of go with the flow and
Speaker 2: then you kind of can let it go when you're ready. Yeah. Right,
Speaker 2: that's kind of the idea.
Speaker 4: So now in chapter thirty three, it gets into the
Speaker 4: angels of mercy, peace and destruction, and these angels are
Speaker 4: by the throne of Judgment, and it says that it
Speaker 4: now much like truth was in front and the pillars
Speaker 4: on the side right, with the angels of destruction on
Speaker 4: the left hand side, you have mercy and on the
Speaker 4: right hand side you have peace. But the thing balancing
Speaker 4: mercy and peace is destruction itself. Right, And it says
Speaker 4: that there is one scribe beneath him, one scribe above him.
Speaker 4: The seraphim surround the throne on all sides with walls
Speaker 4: of lightning, and the open them surround them all with
Speaker 4: burning staves. So there's this essential function of creation and
Speaker 4: destruction here in regard to mercy and peace and maintaining
Speaker 4: those factors. You know, certain things must be destroyed for
Speaker 4: the creation essentially.
Speaker 2: You know, this is really interesting because I'm sure like
Speaker 2: this is interesting for Nick two is that Laurius didn't
Speaker 2: write like his book for like hundreds of years later
Speaker 2: he was talking about a secret path between Bana and Hessad,
Speaker 2: so very much like this sort of like ninety degree
Speaker 2: triangle that you're talking about, like peace, destruction and mercy
Speaker 2: like that would be Geburah, Bana and Hessad yep. But
Speaker 2: like the Tree at this time didn't even reflect this
Speaker 2: kind of like more secret understanding. So I think that's
Speaker 2: actually really interesting.
Speaker 4: Let's see try to wrap it up here, And granted,
Speaker 4: you know, going through all this information, there's not enough
Speaker 4: time here for us to cover all the chapters. I'm
Speaker 4: just trying to cover some of the stuff that kind
Speaker 4: of stood out as I was going through it. And
Speaker 4: when you get to the end of the book, the
Speaker 4: very last chapter, which is what is it chapter forty eight?
Speaker 4: You get one chapter that seems to be in the vernacular,
Speaker 4: and then there's three editions after it. So there's actually
Speaker 4: a forty eight A, a forty eight B, a forty eight C,
Speaker 4: and a forty eight D. I think forty eight C
Speaker 4: sounds the most unlike the rest of the book. But again,
Speaker 4: what you're having here is a compilation of ideas through time,
Speaker 4: and it's very much if you go through the Talmud,
Speaker 4: you know, essentially you have the core idea in the center,
Speaker 4: and then the rabbis will write on the exterior of
Speaker 4: the pages and build out different ideas based around the
Speaker 4: central idea. So I think that's kind of what you
Speaker 4: have going on here. But the whole idea of the
Speaker 4: last chapter is that these angels are still upset that
Speaker 4: a human was allowed into the divine realm, and basically,
Speaker 4: you know, God says, you know, who loves man more
Speaker 4: than all the angels, when they're basically just gonna have
Speaker 4: to deal with it.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the this is like you see
Speaker 2: this a lot. I think when like you know, when
Speaker 2: like when I was on Rejects for with Heidi and
Speaker 2: Nick and Lisa and JJ, like and when we've done Mario,
Speaker 2: you and I Robbie with a Nick show many times,
Speaker 2: and just like there's so many competing theories in modern magic.
Speaker 2: Like there's all the you know, everybody has their idea,
Speaker 2: they have their idea of like how the cosmos works.
Speaker 2: Is it fixed? Is it not fixed? Is it uh
Speaker 2: you know, is it infinite? And its expansiveness and like yeah,
Speaker 2: I think traditional religion is exactly the same. It's like
Speaker 2: competing theories of reality and so uh yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that uh, literalism is really not your friend when you're
Speaker 2: looking at like this historical stuff, because then you're gonna,
Speaker 2: I think you get too caught up maybe in the
Speaker 2: like minute shade, the minute angles you could say of
Speaker 2: like yeah exactly, instead of looking at it like as
Speaker 2: a broader mythological Yes, yeah, conceptual, Yeah, it's very conceptual, exactly.
Speaker 2: You got me, Robbie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, you know, after going through all these
Speaker 4: three books of Enoch and you know, seeing the difference
Speaker 4: between the Ethiopic, the Slavian, and the Hebrew, you know,
Speaker 4: they all maintain the consistent idea of Enoch becoming translated
Speaker 4: into the heavens and becoming you know, the little yah
Speaker 4: yahweh or the the right hand you know, God, hand
Speaker 4: of God and basically, uh, you know, they they're consistent
Speaker 4: with that. It's just a matter of the presentation and
Speaker 4: how each culture essentially affects the book itself.
Speaker 2: You know. Well, I think that's an interesting idea, right
Speaker 2: because like in Central Asia they clearly say that, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're not stuck at the right hand, We're not like,
Speaker 2: that's not where we want to go. We want to
Speaker 2: go like much higher. We want to like if we
Speaker 2: can go out of the cube, that's where we're going, right, So, right,
Speaker 2: like that's the idea. It's not to get like locked
Speaker 2: into like at least those ones like those were just
Speaker 2: like mid tier suffer, right, Like I know everybody's like, whoa,
Speaker 2: those are like the you know, the pathos. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: also no, like also like you can go higher. I
Speaker 2: think that's totally possible, and I think that it's uh yeah,
Speaker 2: don't be locked in. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, and and it's you know when you get into
Speaker 4: uh what is it cather and being the throne, the
Speaker 4: high Throne. Even in the Book of Enoch, it talks
Speaker 4: about this force that's essentially responsible for the power of
Speaker 4: all the creation itself, that God puts even higher than
Speaker 4: the throne itself. So yeah, you know, the fratal it
Speaker 4: echoes into other dimensional reality is higher than and lower
Speaker 4: than itself.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that that's also like the you know,
Speaker 2: we've done a lot of especially when I'm on Rejects,
Speaker 2: I do a lot of numerology, or at least the
Speaker 2: more Hebrew kind of like tree version. And I think
Speaker 2: that you like see this idea like what like what
Speaker 2: like even the five and the seven, which we discuss
Speaker 2: on this episode, is like are there five chakras? Are
Speaker 2: there seven chakras? Are there nine chakras? It's also that's right,
Speaker 2: that's right, like what what is the what is the finale?
Speaker 2: What is the terminus of expression?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And so I do think that people there are so
Speaker 2: many competing ideas rather than you know, it's not like
Speaker 2: one cosmology is necessarily superior, but you know, it's like
Speaker 2: what do you choose to believe?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and I think that you know, you look
Speaker 4: historically and how all these cultures have affected the different
Speaker 4: philosophical ideas. But then you come up to the Rosicrucians,
Speaker 4: and you come up to like al the Suxley basically
Speaker 4: writing the perennial philosophy. And there has been a chain
Speaker 4: of certain uh philosophical ideas that try to take all
Speaker 4: of these systems and make a singular system.
Speaker 5: Out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've can they You can see this a lot
Speaker 2: with post war magic, right, and like even not even that,
Speaker 2: like theosophy definitely was the maybe mode. We'll call it
Speaker 2: the modern foundations of this, but it obviously started earlier
Speaker 2: then modern magic. Then you have like you have like
Speaker 2: a I read a Stephen Flowers book. He has like
Speaker 2: a whole is like the Left the Lords of the
Speaker 2: Left Hand Path. I know it sounds like mister Edgelord.
Speaker 2: It really wasn't. It was like him talking. He does
Speaker 2: a whole chapter on contra. Okay, he's like Dare and
Speaker 2: then he's citing the contres from then I'm looking up
Speaker 2: the citation that he's not even citing the tontra. He's
Speaker 2: citing Evela. Who then I go look up Eva is
Speaker 2: not citing the contra either. He's citing interpretation. So it's like,
Speaker 2: do you believe the thing? Do you believe the source?
Speaker 2: Text or like the story around.
Speaker 4: It, right, and and again you know, that's why the
Speaker 4: Catholic Church had to create the idea of the Canon
Speaker 4: with the Council of Nicea and basically put all these ideas,
Speaker 4: compartmentalize them as to you know, was Jesus God was
Speaker 4: Jesus a man was the part God part man like
Speaker 4: and establish you know, the truism the things that they
Speaker 4: are heresies. So you know, and and that's uh, something
Speaker 4: that forces through all of time they've tried to do
Speaker 4: is homogenize these ideas.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that that's the you know, if I'm
Speaker 2: going to criticize Rome in any way, maybe in a
Speaker 2: more way, if they're like the the we'll say like
Speaker 2: they represent like the old, like the Okay, well, so
Speaker 2: I'll use your cosmology, I'll borrow It'll be a true chasmic. Yes, Robbie,
Speaker 2: I'll say that it's the fallen woman. So the Church
Speaker 2: is like the Babylon. Right, that makes sense because in
Speaker 2: Tantra she's always crooked backed, she's always a little crooked.
Speaker 2: She always you know, leans a little one way or
Speaker 2: the other. She's never it's never in balance, it's always
Speaker 2: a little off culter and so that makes perfect sense
Speaker 2: to me. Like they would be like very right handed,
Speaker 2: where they would be like, this is the text, this
Speaker 2: is it. You cannot believe anything else, right, right, this
Speaker 2: is our structure, this is our institution. And then they
Speaker 2: would also be like very left handed, and they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's put ideas into the ether. Let's like, let's you know,
Speaker 2: change reality around us. Doesn't have to necessarily even be
Speaker 2: like they're thinking of magic. It just you know, even
Speaker 2: though that's going on in public.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And any time you take and try to create
Speaker 4: a rigid system that has no exceptions, you're going to
Speaker 4: create things like the Protestants coming out of the Pallasis
Speaker 4: and the Protestant that you look at the word and
Speaker 4: it simply means to protest because they are having a
Speaker 4: problem with the way that it's being used and represented
Speaker 4: as it became more and more corrupted, you know, selling
Speaker 4: of indulgences, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: So you have this.
Speaker 4: Natural waveform where rigidity, the fluidity, the rigidity the flu
Speaker 4: and it just you know, if you get caught up
Speaker 4: in the rigidity of any one of these forms, you've
Speaker 4: become crystallized in the movement and you can no longer
Speaker 4: see the overall flux and influx and how you know
Speaker 4: it affects things through time.
Speaker 2: That was a really amazing point, Robbie. It just says
Speaker 2: like very I think this whole episode has been like
Speaker 2: very plus ultra very magnets and magnets. You know, it's
Speaker 2: just like it's very polarities. It's like the it's like
Speaker 2: what like I if I'm going to say, like have
Speaker 2: a magical like cosmology. I worshiped the polarities like that
Speaker 2: that lightning. That's what I like. I don't know the
Speaker 2: fixed things I think. I think those things are the traps. Yes, nice,
Speaker 2: So sorry Nick, please go nice.
Speaker 1: I would agree with that, you know again the vices
Speaker 1: and the virtues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you guys both so much. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry Nick, I didn't let you plug at the very
Speaker 2: beginning I realized, and but uh no, I mean, because
Speaker 2: like you know, it is your channel, I should like
Speaker 2: you plug. And but thank you both so much for
Speaker 2: like doing this series with me. It was my first
Speaker 2: Robbie Mark series, hopefully in all my last, and obviously
Speaker 2: I'll continue to work with Robby and uviously Nick on
Speaker 2: the Rejects and I love doing that, and so thank
Speaker 2: you both so much for coming on to party with
Speaker 2: me and and books of voch I've learned so much Robbie.
Speaker 2: Really appreciate it and really great, like a great finale,
Speaker 2: So thank you Nick for hosting it.
Speaker 1: Of course for sure listen and you.
Speaker 2: Guys can definitely plug now I'm saying you can go, Robbie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if anybody's interested in checking out my other stuff,
Speaker 4: you can go to my link tree, which is our
Speaker 4: m a ar x and that'll pull up my website,
Speaker 4: my podcast, my social media, my Patreon, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Okay, Neck, please go.
Speaker 5: Yes, Uh, the Occult Rejects obviously at on YouTube, rumb
Speaker 5: little Bit, Shoot and all major podcasts. And uh, for
Speaker 5: the people that I'm listening to it live, episode one
Speaker 5: and two will actually drop on this channel next week,
Speaker 5: so uh you get to catch up kind of yeah,
Speaker 5: since is part three out of nowhere?
Speaker 1: So sweet.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and thank you so much Jen for allowing me
Speaker 5: to jump on. I always love hearing from Robbie, so
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 2: I really apprecire No, thank you, I appreciate that. So
Speaker 2: it was it was a great it was just a
Speaker 2: great collaboration. I'm just I'm really proud of, you know,
Speaker 2: the work I've done, especially lately with Rejucks and on
Speaker 2: my own show with Robbie, so this is a big
Speaker 2: part of it. So thank you both, and yeah to
Speaker 2: many more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you both. I appreciate it. Always a good time, Yes,