1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,359 Speaker 1: Welcome to thrilling Threads. We're jumping straight in today right 2 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:07,320 into well, what might be the ultimate cosmic mystery. 3 00:00:07,679 --> 00:00:10,199 Speaker 2: It's a story that really does have everything. It starts 4 00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:13,439 with just pure celestial mechanics, but it ends with, of 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 all things, the Central Intelligence Agency. 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: And this isn't some you know, abstract thought experiment. We're 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,120 talking about a real object, a visitor to our solar 8 00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:24,920 system that is behaving in ways that well, they just 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,960 defy everything we thought we knew about natural objects exactly. 10 00:00:28,039 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: We're focusing today on three eyeat lists, that's three eye 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,640 out lists, which is only the second confirmed interstellar object 12 00:00:34,719 --> 00:00:36,840 we've ever seen. And look, if this were just a 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,640 normal rock or comet, we'd chart its path and you know, 14 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,240 file it away. It's really not. Three Ialyss has shown 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,200 these bizarre, anomalous acceleration characteristics. Basically, it's moving in a 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,000 way that gravity alone just can't explain, and that is 17 00:00:52,079 --> 00:00:53,960 kicked off a cascade of new research. 18 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:57,759 Speaker 1: It's raising huge questions right above extraterrestrial technology. And as 19 00:00:57,759 --> 00:01:00,719 you said, it's even caught the attention of intelligence agencies. 20 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:03,119 It's arguably the most fascinating thing in the sky right now. 21 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:06,079 It is okay, So let's get into it. The material 22 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,159 you share gives us this incredible breakdown, especially from discussions 23 00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:13,560 with Harvard astronomer Ave Lobe. He's been on Fox thirty 24 00:01:13,599 --> 00:01:17,280 two Chicago and elsewhere really framing this thing not as 25 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,040 a comet, but as potential technology. He has, yes, So 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,319 our mission for this deep dive is to really set 27 00:01:23,359 --> 00:01:24,760 through all of that. We're going to look at the 28 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:29,359 hard science, the data, these unbelievable geometric coincidences in its 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,319 flight path, and then explore what it all means. I mean, 30 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:34,079 we're actually talking about a trojan horse. 31 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,079 Speaker 3: Hypothesis, the idea that this thing could be a carrier 32 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,879 some kind of delivery system for say, undetected technology, maybe 33 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,640 even a swarm of nanobots just waiting. 34 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: To be deployed. 35 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: Mind bending stuff. 36 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:48,439 Speaker 2: It's the perfect intersection. 37 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Really. 38 00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: You have quantum optics, you have celestial mechanics, and then 39 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:54,680 you have this layer of geopolitical awareness, all focused on 40 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,840 one single mysterious object. 41 00:01:57,159 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: So where do we even begin? 42 00:01:58,599 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: We begin with part of one hundred times bigger than 43 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:03,840 normal dust, and we end with why the CIA can't 44 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,079 deny that they have a file on it. 45 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: All right, let's start at the beginning. Then the first 46 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:11,039 big piece of this puzzle is just an incredible stroke 47 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,840 of observational luck, an event that happened on January twenty second. 48 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: It really was a gift from the cosmos, you could say. 49 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,479 Speaker 1: So it created this perfect viewing window. Why was that 50 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,479 date so important? It sounds like we were just handed 51 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,000 the perfect moment to study this thing. 52 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. On January twenty second, 53 00:02:26,719 --> 00:02:29,919 Earth moved into a position almost exactly between three I 54 00:02:30,039 --> 00:02:31,159 at lists and the Sun. 55 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: Okay, and this. 56 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,199 Speaker 2: Configuration it has a name. It's called opposition. It means 57 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,520 the object is directly opposite the Sun in our night sky. 58 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,879 The precision here was just staggering. It was aligned to 59 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,439 within zero point sixty nine degrees. 60 00:02:47,199 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: Zero point six nine degrees. Help us visualize that, I mean, 61 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,879 the full moon is about half a degree across. So 62 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,000 are we talking about an almost perfect straight line sun Earth. 63 00:02:57,039 --> 00:02:59,759 Speaker 2: At lists almost perfect less than one degree off. I mean, 64 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:03,039 that's astronomically precise. And an alignment like that isn't just 65 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,960 for a nice photo op It's critical because it generates 66 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,159 something at Stronomer's called the opposition surge, an opposition surge right, 67 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,560 and this surge gives us two distinct and very powerful benefits. 68 00:03:15,879 --> 00:03:18,120 It leads to this massive increase in how bright the 69 00:03:18,159 --> 00:03:21,240 object appears and the quality of the signal we can 70 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:21,759 get from it. 71 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:25,439 Speaker 1: So let's break that down. Why does this specific arrangement 72 00:03:25,479 --> 00:03:28,039 where we're essentially looking at the sun's reflection head on 73 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:29,840 give us such a good view? 74 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,599 Speaker 2: Well, the first benefit is the easy one. It's purely geometric. 75 00:03:33,719 --> 00:03:36,240 When you're looking at the object at night, the sun 76 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:39,439 is directly behind you, so you see the entire face 77 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:42,400 of the object and all the particles around it completely 78 00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:43,000 lit up. 79 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:45,639 Speaker 1: Like looking at a full moon versus a crescent moon exactly. 80 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: You get no shadows. It maximizes the surface area that's 81 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:52,120 reflecting sunlight right back at you, right back to our telephone. 82 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense, But you said there were two benefits. 83 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:58,159 Speaker 2: Yes, and the second one is frankly much more crucial 84 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,479 for figuring out the microscopic structure of this thing. And 85 00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:03,639 this is where the physics gets really fascinating. 86 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: You mentioned the quantum mechanical effect. That sounds like something 87 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:08,439 you don't hear about in everyday astronomy. 88 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: You don't. It's subtle but it's incredibly powerful. So when 89 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:17,639 sunlight hits a bunch of particles, especially small, densely packed ones, 90 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,839 and reflects directly back towards the source, which. 91 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: Is us our telescopes on Earth right. 92 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: A phenomenon occurs called constructive interference, and this is a 93 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:32,639 quantum mechanical effect that basically enhances the light that's scattered back. 94 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: Constructive interference, so the light waves bouncing off are all 95 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:39,199 stacking up on each other perfectly instead of canceling each 96 00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:39,639 other out. 97 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,759 Speaker 2: That is the perfect way to describe it. Imagine two 98 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,519 waves hitting a wall, but when they reflect back, their 99 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,759 peaks and troughs are perfectly aligned. They add up, They 100 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:52,160 constructively interfere, and that doubles their amplitude, which. 101 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,199 Speaker 1: We see as a huge jump in brightness. 102 00:04:53,759 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: A dramatic nonlinear surge and brightness exactly. So for the 103 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,600 scientific teams using the big sensitive telescope, this opposition surge 104 00:05:01,639 --> 00:05:03,839 was just a gold mine of high precision data. 105 00:05:04,199 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: And with that data, what were they trying to figure out? 106 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,439 What specifically did they want to know about the material? 107 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,680 Three eye out lists is shedding two main things. 108 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,959 Speaker 2: First, just to define the structure of the dust and gas, 109 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:18,519 are the particles small and fluffy or are they these 110 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,439 unusually large dense particles we suspected. And the second thing, 111 00:05:22,879 --> 00:05:26,160 the second thing is the real heart of the anomaly. 112 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,120 We need a definitive data on the nature and the 113 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,399 origin of the and this is key the unprecedented negative 114 00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:37,079 and extreme polarization of the light that we'd already detected 115 00:05:37,079 --> 00:05:37,399 from it. 116 00:05:37,519 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: Okay, polarization, that word screams anomaly. Here we kind of 117 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,680 know what it is from sunglasses. But what does extreme 118 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:48,560 negative polarization tell us about what this thing is made of? 119 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: Right? Let's contextualize that the light from the sun is unpolarized. 120 00:05:52,319 --> 00:05:55,399 Its waves are vibrating in all directions. When it reflects 121 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:58,120 off a flat surface like a road, the reflected light 122 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,120 gets partially polarized. The wave mostly line up in one 123 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,439 direction horizontally. 124 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: In our sunglasses block that horizontal light to cut the 125 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:06,360 glare exactly. 126 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,879 Speaker 2: That's standard or positive polarization. What we found with three 127 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,680 iatlis was the complete opposite. The light scattered from it 128 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,120 had negative and extreme polarization negatives. 129 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: So the light waves are moving perpendicular to the surface. 130 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: Essentially, yes, it means the light is oscillating perpendicular to 131 00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:25,720 the plane of reflection. Or it suggests this really chaotic, 132 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,079 complex scattering is happening at very small angles. Just bizarre. 133 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: And what does that imply about the particles themselves? If 134 00:06:33,079 --> 00:06:37,199 smooth dust gives us positive polarization, what kind of dust 135 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,120 gives you this extreme negative signal? 136 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: It implies highly unusual scattering properties, things we rarely, if 137 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,279 ever see in natural comets. The model suggests one of 138 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,959 two things. First, the particles might be incredibly dark, absorbing 139 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,800 almost all light and only scattering a tiny bit in 140 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,959 a chaotic way core Or and this seems more likely, 141 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:01,600 the particles must have an incredibly complex, non spherical and 142 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,120 highly porous structure. 143 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: Porous like a sponge or. 144 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,439 Speaker 2: Something exactly like a sponge, but on a microscopic scale. 145 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,199 Think of it like tiny fractal popcorn. A particle like 146 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,759 that would trap light, making it bounce around inside multiple 147 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:13,519 times before it. 148 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:15,879 Speaker 1: Escapes, and all those internal reflections would randomize it. 149 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:18,399 Speaker 2: They'd randomize it and cause it to emerge with that 150 00:07:18,439 --> 00:07:23,399 perpendicular or negative orientation. And the extreme part means the 151 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:26,879 effect is maybe three to five times more pronounced than 152 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,879 the weirdest comets we've ever seen before. 153 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:31,199 Speaker 1: So it's not just different, it's way off the charts, 154 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:31,680 way off. 155 00:07:31,879 --> 00:07:35,439 Speaker 2: It strongly suggests the scattering is caused by something unique, 156 00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:39,079 a composition or an internal structure that just fundamentally challenges 157 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,879 the idea that three Iatlis is just a simple, dirty 158 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,519 snowball from deep space. 159 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,519 Speaker 1: So that one perfect alignment on January twenty second was 160 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,920 the key. It gave us the data to confirm that 161 00:07:50,959 --> 00:07:54,600 the very material this thing is made of is abnormal. 162 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,199 Speaker 2: Which leads us right into the next big anomaly. The 163 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,000 most prominent physical feature of three iatlists this massive jet 164 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,360 of material that's pointed directly towards the sun, the anti tail. 165 00:08:04,399 --> 00:08:07,800 The anti tail, it's completely counterintuitive. It's fighting against the constant, 166 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:10,360 massive force of the solar wind and radiation pressure. 167 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,759 Speaker 1: Right every picture of a comet you've ever seen, the 168 00:08:12,839 --> 00:08:15,160 tail is blown away from the sun like smoke in 169 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:16,879 the winds. This is like the smoke is blowing into 170 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:19,120 the wind. How big is this jet? What does it 171 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,720 take to sustain something like that? 172 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: The scale is what really breaks the imagination. This jet, 173 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,480 it propagates for about four hundred thousand kilometer. 174 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: Wait, four hundred thousand to put that in perspective's that's 175 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,960 about the distance from the Earth to the Moon. 176 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: It's a comparable distance. Yes, a plume of material as 177 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:39,440 long as the Earth Moon gap pushing against the Sun. 178 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: That's just staggering, and. 179 00:08:41,279 --> 00:08:44,039 Speaker 2: It's very long and narrow. It's about ten times longer 180 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,279 than it is. Why so you have this colossal plume 181 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,720 of ejected material that is actively fighting the Sun's forces, 182 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,120 Which leads to the next obvious question. 183 00:08:53,919 --> 00:08:56,399 Speaker 1: Which is why isn't there a normal tail? 184 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,639 Speaker 2: Exactly? Why don't we see a visible tail going away 185 00:08:59,639 --> 00:09:02,080 from this? That should be the default for any comet. 186 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,639 Speaker 1: The absence of that tail is as big a clue 187 00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:07,639 as the presence of the anti tail. If the solar 188 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,840 wind isn't pushing the material away, that material must be 189 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:12,320 incredibly resistant to it. 190 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: The logic is inescapable. The only way for particles to 191 00:09:15,399 --> 00:09:18,000 resist that pressure is to have a very large mass 192 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:21,039 relative to their surface area. So the bottom line is 193 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,559 the particles have to be huge. 194 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,639 Speaker 1: So it's not shedding dust, it's shedding chunks. Yeah, how 195 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,279 much bigger are we talking compared to normal comet dust. 196 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: Typical cometary dust is sub micrometer It's incredibly fine. The 197 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:35,879 particles from three I alas have to be in the 198 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,240 range of ten to one hundred micrometers. 199 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,039 Speaker 1: One hundred times larger. 200 00:09:39,799 --> 00:09:41,399 Speaker 2: About one hundred times larger than usual. 201 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,919 Speaker 1: Yes, let's get a feel for that. If typical comet 202 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,240 dust is like the finest powder imaginable, what's one hundred micrometers? 203 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,960 Is that like a grain of sand. 204 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: It's about the size of a very fine grain of sand, 205 00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:55,039 or maybe a grain of flour. You could definitely see 206 00:09:55,039 --> 00:09:58,240 a clump of it, and that size difference completely changes 207 00:09:58,279 --> 00:09:58,799 the physics. 208 00:09:59,039 --> 00:10:01,799 Speaker 1: It's the difference between the wind pushing a piece of 209 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:02,919 paper versus a rock. 210 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:06,039 Speaker 2: An excellent analogy. You try to push a giant sheet 211 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:08,159 of tissue paper with a gust of wind, It flies 212 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,039 away instantly. You try to push a dense marble. It 213 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,159 barely moves. Its mass is just too great for its 214 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:14,879 surface area. 215 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,159 Speaker 1: Which makes this anti tail a huge puzzle, because how 216 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,080 does a natural object produce and eject such large particles 217 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,279 and sustain that jet against the sun. 218 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,039 Speaker 2: That's the unresolved question. The competing theories are either that 219 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,039 it's fragments of ice that slowly evaporate over that four 220 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,799 hundred thousand kilometer distance, or it's these large dense dust 221 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,720 particles being ejected with a lot of force. But either way, 222 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,639 ice or dust, the material is highly unusual and very dense. 223 00:10:44,759 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: And that density in the ejection velocity you need to 224 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,440 maintain that anti tail that connects perfectly to the next 225 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,240 major finding, right, the object's rotation. 226 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: Yes, this is where we bring in the Hubble space telescope. 227 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,440 Scientists analyze seventeen images that Hubble took between late November 228 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,919 and late to c and they noticed something a distinct 229 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,879 rhythmic pattern in that jet structure. 230 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: You're talking about the wobble. 231 00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: The wobble exactly, the jets, especially that big anti tail, 232 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,360 they seem to wobble around the rotation axis of the 233 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,960 main body. The best analogy really is a ratating lighthouse beam. 234 00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:18,399 Speaker 1: So the object is spinning and the jets aren't coming 235 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,879 from the poles, they're coming from somewhere off center, so 236 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,480 they sweep around as it turns. 237 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: That's it, precisely, and by tracking that sweep across the 238 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:30,480 different Hubble images, astronomers could measure the rotation period with 239 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:31,720 very high precision. 240 00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:32,799 Speaker 1: And what do they find? 241 00:11:32,879 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: What was the period they landed on a very precise 242 00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:38,399 period of either seven point two or seven point one hours. 243 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,600 And what makes this finding so solid is how it 244 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,440 was confirmed. 245 00:11:42,519 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't just a Hubble data. 246 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,639 Speaker 2: No, that seven point one Aggar period was confirmed by 247 00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:49,919 two completely independent sources. 248 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:50,919 Speaker 1: That was a second source. 249 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: The first was analyzing the physical wabble of the jet 250 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,159 in the Hubble images. The second came from ground based 251 00:11:57,159 --> 00:12:00,720 telescopes that were just monitoring the object's overall brightness after 252 00:12:00,759 --> 00:12:02,399 it passed its closest point to the sun. 253 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,519 Speaker 1: Hold on, how does its brightness tell you how fast 254 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,120 it's spinning. 255 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: Well, think about the shape of the object as it rotates. 256 00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:11,639 The amount of reflective material pointed towards us changes, the 257 00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:14,919 angle of the jets changes, the surface of the nucleus changes. 258 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:16,919 Speaker 1: So it gets brighter and dimmer in a regular. 259 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 2: Cycle, a measurable fluctuation in brightness. Yes, And the critical 260 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,320 finding was that the timing of that brightness fluctuation perfectly 261 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,960 matched the timing of the physical wobble from the Hubble data. 262 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,039 Both pointed to that seven point one hour period. It's 263 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:31,679 the first confirmed report on its. 264 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: Rotation, and having two independent confirmations like that is huge. 265 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:36,159 It really locks it in. 266 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 2: Is very compelling. 267 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:40,639 Speaker 1: So now we have an object shedding giant dust grains 268 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,759 with weird light polarization, rotating like clockwork every seven hours. 269 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,320 That regularity, it starts to feel less like a chaotic 270 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:51,639 natural object and more like a machine. 271 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,639 Speaker 2: That machine like routine is the perfect segue to the 272 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,240 next critical day on this thing's calendar. March sixteenth. This 273 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:00,399 is when three I at List makes its approach to Jupiter. 274 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,360 And this is where the technological discussion really ramps up. 275 00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:05,519 Speaker 1: So why Jupiter, it's not the closest it gets to 276 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,200 the Sun or to Earth. Why is this particular planetary 277 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,039 fly by a potential black Swan event. 278 00:13:12,279 --> 00:13:14,799 Speaker 2: It's all about the very specific physics of the encounter. 279 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,519 On March sixteenth, three Atlas will pass within a very 280 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,960 specific distance of Jupiter, a boundary known as its hill radius. 281 00:13:21,159 --> 00:13:24,919 Speaker 1: Okay, let's slow down and unpack the hill radius, because 282 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,320 it sounds like that's the absolute key to this whole 283 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:28,159 deployment theory. 284 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:30,279 Speaker 2: It is the hill radius. You can also call it 285 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,960 the roach sphere. It's the boundary that defines a planet's 286 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,120 gravitational sphere of influence. It's the line where Jupiter's gravity 287 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,360 it becomes stronger than the Sun's gravity. 288 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: So if you cross that line, you're more likely to 289 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,360 fall into Jupiter's gravitational well than to keep orbiting the Sun. 290 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: That's it exactly. You become gravitationally bound to Jupiter. And 291 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,159 for an interstellar object which should just be on a 292 00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:56,200 simple slingshot path out of the system to hit that 293 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,440 exact boundary, it's very specific. 294 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,039 Speaker 1: And when you combine that with all its other weird behaviors, 295 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:01,799 it starts. 296 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: To look less like a coincidence and more like a 297 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:04,919 pre programmed destination. 298 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:08,399 Speaker 1: Right, And speaking of coincidences, this gets us to that 299 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,960 whole argument. The source material says that any single one 300 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,679 of these could be random chance, but when you add 301 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,799 them all up, the total picture is very unlikely to 302 00:14:18,799 --> 00:14:19,519 be an accident. 303 00:14:19,879 --> 00:14:23,519 Speaker 2: That's the core statistical argument against it being a natural object. 304 00:14:24,039 --> 00:14:27,159 There are just too many specific alignments. Let's list them. 305 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,720 There are three main geometric coincidences that were flagged in 306 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:32,399 the analysis. 307 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,559 Speaker 1: Okay, what's the first one? 308 00:14:34,039 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: The orbital plane, Yes, three, I Atlas is orbiting within 309 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,320 five degrees of the ecliptic plane. That's the flat pancake 310 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:43,799 like disc where all the planets orbit the Sun. 311 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: And why is that weird for something from interseellar space. 312 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: Because an object coming from type space should arrive on 313 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,000 a completely random trajectory. It could come from any angle. 314 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,960 Most of them should be highly inclined, you know, cutting 315 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,679 through the Solar System at forty five or even ninety degrees. 316 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,519 Speaker 1: This one is flying right down the planetary. 317 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,279 Speaker 2: Highway within five degrees of it, Yes, which is statistically 318 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,080 pretty improbable for a random visitor. 319 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,679 Speaker 1: Coincidence number two is about its close passes. 320 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: Correct Its path brings it very close to both Mars 321 00:15:13,399 --> 00:15:16,399 and Jupiter. Again, a random object should just swing through 322 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:19,480 empty space for the most part. Making close passes to 323 00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:22,720 two major planets is another tick in the unlikely column. 324 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: And the third one connects back to that seven point 325 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:26,759 one hour rotation we were just talking about. 326 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:29,879 Speaker 2: This one is maybe the most specific. It's axis of rotation, 327 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,559 the line it's spinning around every seven point one hours. 328 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,440 That axis is aligned with the direction of the Sun 329 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:38,840 to within ten or twenty degrees at least when it's 330 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:39,320 far away. 331 00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:41,159 Speaker 1: Okay, but I have to push back a little here. 332 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,480 I mean, in the universe this big, wildly improbable things 333 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:49,159 have to happen sometimes, right, Why are these three things together, 334 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,639 the plane, the proximity, the axis, so suggestive of design 335 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,639 instead of just being one of those one in a 336 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:56,960 billion lucky shots. 337 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: That's the right question to ask. And if it were 338 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,039 just one of them, say the ecliptic alignment, we can 339 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,279 maybe dismiss it as a fluke. But you have to 340 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,000 treat them as dependent probabilities. They have to multiply the 341 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,279 You multiply them, so if the chance of each one 342 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,919 is say five percent, and it's probably lower, you multiply 343 00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:16,039 point zero five by point zero five, by point zero five. 344 00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:20,000 The overall probability becomes vanishing only small. It moves beyond 345 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,879 statistical fluke and starts to discuss there's a reason for it, 346 00:16:22,919 --> 00:16:26,639 a cause, or in this context, that the path was engineered. 347 00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:30,919 Speaker 1: So if we entertain that possibility that's not a coincidence, 348 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:34,559 then the whole hypothesis shifts. The approach to Jupiter's hill 349 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:36,679 radius on March sixteenth is planned. 350 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: And that's the Trojan horse idea. The object isn't just 351 00:16:39,039 --> 00:16:42,480 flying by Jupiter. The hypothesis is that it might be 352 00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:46,000 designed to deploy some devices when it gets there, maybe 353 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000 small probes, maybe that nanobot swarm that would then become 354 00:16:49,039 --> 00:16:51,360 stable satellites of Jupiter, and. 355 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,799 Speaker 1: The physics of that capture is the hard part for 356 00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:57,399 nature to explain. For a natural chunk to break off 357 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,519 and get caught by Jupiter, it's almost impossible. 358 00:17:01,159 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: Right, It's nearly impossible naturally, And this is probably the 359 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,160 strongest piece of circumstantial evidence for technology. Three Ieatlyas is 360 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,279 moving incredibly fast, it's escaping the Sun's gravity. For a 361 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:13,680 piece of it to break off and then slow down 362 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,799 just the right amount to get captured by Jupiter's weaker gravity, it. 363 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,759 Speaker 1: Would have to fire some kind of reverse thruster, an 364 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:20,920 active breaking system. 365 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,079 Speaker 2: It would need an intentional deceleration. Yes, nature doesn't really 366 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,519 do precision breaking maneuvers like that by accident. The fragment 367 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,960 would have to shed a huge amount of kinetic energy. 368 00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:34,759 So if we see new unexpected satellites pop up around 369 00:17:34,839 --> 00:17:36,000 Jupiter after March. 370 00:17:35,799 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: Sixteenth, satellites that weren't there before, then. 371 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,599 Speaker 2: The Trojan Horse suspicion goes way up. It would strongly 372 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:44,240 suggest a technological payload was deployed. 373 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: And the amazing thing is we're not flying blind here. 374 00:17:47,319 --> 00:17:49,759 We have eyes on Jupiter already. 375 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: We do. We have the Juno spacecraft in orbit right 376 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,519 now sending back constant hires data. And we have two 377 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,960 more big missions on the way esay's Juice Explorer and 378 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,400 NASA's europe Clipper. They're all perfectly positioned to detect any 379 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,160 new anomalous objects that suddenly appear. If something is deployed, 380 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,079 we should see. 381 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: It, which takes this whole conversation out of the realm 382 00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:13,759 of just speculative astronomy and puts it squarely in the 383 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:17,920 geopolitical arena. You're talking about advanced program devices potentially being 384 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,720 delivered right into our backyard, and that explains why the 385 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,000 intelligence community might be paying attention. 386 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: And that brings us right to that intelligence perspective, because 387 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,039 the interest in THREEI out list isn't just astronomers arguing 388 00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,519 in journals. We got a hint of that when a 389 00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:35,680 Freedom of Information Act FOIA request was filed. 390 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: Right someone asked the CIA for any records they had 391 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,200 related to three I. 392 00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: Out lists exactly, And the fact that request was even 393 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,440 made tells you that serious people think this object could 394 00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:47,359 be a national security issue. 395 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,559 Speaker 1: So what was the CIA's response. 396 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: This is the really fascinating part. They didn't just deny 397 00:18:53,079 --> 00:18:55,920 having records, which would be the easy answer. They gave 398 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,640 the standard intelligence non answer for things they're actively looking 399 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:00,839 at can't talk about. 400 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: They said they can neither confirm nor deny the existence 401 00:19:03,759 --> 00:19:04,519 of such records. 402 00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: The classic Glomar response, and what that implies to analysts 403 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,240 is that internal discussions or monitoring has almost certainly occurred 404 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,279 if they had nothing. 405 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: They just say they have nothing, So they're basically saying, 406 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,759 we can't tell you if we have a file, because 407 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,920 telling you that would itself be revealing. 408 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: That's the interpretation. Intelligence agencies are all about analyzing low probability, 409 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,720 high impact events black Swan events, and three I atlas 410 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,079 is the textbook definition. The chance of it being alien 411 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,160 tech might be tiny, but the impact would be world changing, so. 412 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,279 Speaker 1: They likely ran the numbers, decided it wasn't an immediate threat, 413 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:44,160 and filed the analysis away to avoid causing a panic. 414 00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: That would be the logical course of action. 415 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,559 Speaker 1: Yes, you know, this whole situation really makes our normal 416 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:55,240 search for extraterrestrial intelligence SETI seem well kind of quaint, 417 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:56,960 almost painfully naive. 418 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: The methods are heavily criticized on the source material as 419 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,160 being very presumptuous. It specifically calls out the Breakthrough Listen project. 420 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,119 In response to all the hype, they pointed their telescopes 421 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,480 at three I at list to listen for radio signals 422 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,359 for a total of five hours. 423 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: Five hours for an object that's been eight thousand years 424 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,599 just getting here from the outer Solar System. It feels 425 00:20:16,599 --> 00:20:18,920 like a toke gesture, doesn't It as if an alien 426 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,720 intelligence would just happen to be broadcasting at us during 427 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,200 that exact five hour window. 428 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 2: It shows a real fundamental misunderstanding of what interstellar communication 429 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,279 would probably look like. Light takes thirty thousand years to 430 00:20:31,319 --> 00:20:35,799 cross our galaxy. A continuous real time chat is pointless. 431 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,440 An advanced traveler wouldn't waste the energy. 432 00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:42,319 Speaker 1: It'd send a data packet, a compressed file, a postcard, 433 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:43,519 not a phone call, a. 434 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: Postcard or a tweet, exactly a single powerful braste of 435 00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:51,400 information once it arrived at its destination, like Jupiter's hill radius. 436 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,839 The assumption that a species that has mastered interstellar travel 437 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,680 would still use primitive radio and broadcast continuously in a 438 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,359 way we could easily pick up. It's just scientific arrogance, and. 439 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:04,799 Speaker 1: It highlights this need for humility in the search. Yeah, 440 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,039 we have to admit that we might not even recognize 441 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:09,079 the signal or the object itself. It was right in 442 00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:11,640 front of us, which bring up that other philosophical point, 443 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:13,799 aiming high versus aiming low. 444 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: Right, the critique is that the global astronomy community is 445 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,720 planning to spend over ten billion dollars in the coming 446 00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:23,759 years to search for microbial life on Mars on Europa, 447 00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:25,640 and that's considered aiming low. 448 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,599 Speaker 1: Because if you're looking for a role model, a civilization 449 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,079 that has solved the big problems of survival, you need 450 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,240 to look for intelligence. 451 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: You can't have a deep conversation with a MicroB Finding 452 00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:39,599 simple life is incredibly important, of course, but if the 453 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,240 goal is to learn from a superior civilization to figure 454 00:21:43,279 --> 00:21:46,000 out how to survive on a galactic time scale, you 455 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,880 have to shift your focus to finding intelligence or its artifacts. 456 00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: But that's the hard part, isn't it Recognizing the artifact, 457 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:56,640 recognizing technology that's far beyond our own. 458 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 2: We might not be able to We're limited by our 459 00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:03,000 training data. It's like an AI. We can only recognize 460 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,759 things that fit our existing models of what comets look like, 461 00:22:05,839 --> 00:22:09,640 what gravity does. Everything else gets classified as an anomaly 462 00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:10,440 or just noise. 463 00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:12,559 Speaker 1: The analogy in the source is great. The cave dweller 464 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:13,039 who finds a. 465 00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:16,599 Speaker 2: Cell phone exactly, the cave dweller picks it up, it's smooth, 466 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,319 it's hard. He throws it in the fire, doesn't burn, 467 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,160 so he concludes it's just a weird kind of rock. 468 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,960 He can't even conceive of semiconductors or radio waves or electricity. 469 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: He doesn't have the training data to classify it as technology. 470 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: And we might be that cave dweller right now. We 471 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,440 could be surrounded by advanced technologies that we misidentify as 472 00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,920 natural phenomena because they don't use radio waves and they 473 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,839 don't fit our models. We insist three i at lists 474 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,799 must be a comet, because our training data only has 475 00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:47,160 comets and asteroids in it. 476 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: So we have to start looking for the unknown unknowns, 477 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,440 the things that don't fit any category we have. 478 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: We have to adopt a strategy that explicitly searches for 479 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,960 things that break our models. 480 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: And that imperative to search for artifacts that defy our definitions. 481 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,559 It brings us right back home to our own cosmic backyard, 482 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:08,160 the Moon and Mars. 483 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 2: Exactly. If you're going to search for artifacts, the most 484 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,640 logical places start is right here, and the Artemis program 485 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,759 gives us the perfect platform. Artemists two schedule for twenty 486 00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:17,960 twenty six, it'll fly. 487 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: Around the Moon, the first step towards a permanent lunar 488 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,720 base by twenty thirty right. 489 00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: And while that's driven by geopolitics, the scientific justification for 490 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:27,599 being on the Moon is immense, so beyond. 491 00:23:27,319 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: Just human exploration. What makes the Moon so valuable as 492 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,240 a scientific platform? 493 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:35,799 Speaker 2: It has three huge advantages over Earth. First, no atmosphere, 494 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,359 no turbulence on Earth, stars, twinkle scintillation, and astronomers call 495 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,759 it from the Moon, the view is perfectly clear and. 496 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,599 Speaker 1: Steady, and no leg pollution. 497 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:48,559 Speaker 2: No light pollution, so you can see the faintest possible signals. 498 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,920 But the third advantage is maybe the most profound. It's 499 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,440 about detecting gravity waves. 500 00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: Like the LEGO observatories on Earth, putting one of those 501 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:57,880 on the Moon. 502 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,759 Speaker 2: The proposal has been around for a decade. LEGO on 503 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:06,079 Earth is amazing, but it's fundamentally limited by Earth's seismic noise, earthquakes, 504 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:08,039 ocean waves, even trucks on the highway. 505 00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:09,559 Speaker 1: The ground is always vibrating. 506 00:24:09,279 --> 00:24:12,319 Speaker 2: It's always vibrating, and that noise floor prevents LEGO from 507 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,359 detecting very low frequency gravitational waves. But the Moon is 508 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,839 seismically quiet. A lunar detector could hear things Earth is 509 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,599 deaf to. What kind of things lower frequencies are produced 510 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,480 by bigger events further back in time, the mergers of 511 00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:28,559 supermassive black holes at the dawn of the universe, maybe 512 00:24:28,559 --> 00:24:31,839 even gravitational waves from the Big Bang itself. A detector 513 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,119 on the Moon could see black holes merging right at 514 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,920 the edge of the observable universe. 515 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:39,519 Speaker 1: But it's not just a platform for looking out. The 516 00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:45,480 Moon itself and Mars are presented as museums, untapped archives 517 00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:46,079 of history. 518 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 2: That's the most captivating part of this. I think the 519 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,359 Moon is a perfect time capsule. For four and a 520 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,440 half billion years, it's had no atmosphere. Now why does 521 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:54,920 that matter. 522 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: Because Earth's atmosphere acts like a shield. It burns up 523 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,039 anything smaller than a car, It burns. 524 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,599 Speaker 2: Up objects smaller than a meter. Yeah, so we've lost 525 00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,599 that entire history of small impacts. The Moon, though it 526 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,319 collects everything. It's a treasure of impacts just sitting on 527 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,039 the surface, and. 528 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,079 Speaker 1: That treasure could include more than just rocks. 529 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: Potentially, Yes, it could include technological artifacts, small probes, fragments 530 00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:20,720 from something like a nanobot swarm, discarded alien tech that 531 00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:22,880 crashed into the Moon millions of years ago and is 532 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,839 now just sitting there under a layer of dust waiting. 533 00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: To be found. And Mars is a similar kind of museum, 534 00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:30,880 but for the history of life. 535 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:34,599 Speaker 2: A different kind of history. Yes, Mars lost its atmosphere 536 00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:37,319 about two and a half billion years ago, but we 537 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,720 know it had liquid water on its surface long before that, 538 00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,440 which raises the very real possibility that we could find 539 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,759 evidence of life on Mars that existed even before life 540 00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:48,920 on Earth really got going. 541 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: So these local accessible museums are best bet for finding 542 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,759 proof of past life or past technology. 543 00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: There are a much better bet than just listening for 544 00:25:57,799 --> 00:25:59,720 radio signals and hoping for the best. 545 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,559 Speaker 1: This has been an incredible synthesis. We started with the 546 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,599 hard science of three iautlis, the giant dust, the weird 547 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,000 light polarization that clockworks seven point one hour rotation. 548 00:26:09,319 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: Then we layered on the orbital coincidences, this statistically impossible 549 00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:16,960 flight path, the precision approach to Jupiter's hill radius, and 550 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,839 the Trojan horse hypothesis that it's here to deploy. 551 00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: Something, and we wrapped it all in this bigger context, 552 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,519 the CIA's non denial, which suggests they're taking this black 553 00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,279 Swan event seriously, and the philosophical critique that we're aiming 554 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,119 low in our search, possibly missing artifacts right on our 555 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,160 doorstep because they don't fit our training data. 556 00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: The tension is that the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence is 557 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:40,319 a question that's completely independent of whether we choose to 558 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,839 look for it or not. The truth is out there, 559 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,559 as they say, regardless of our own hubris. 560 00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: I mean, if an advanced civilization did send three iautlis, 561 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,440 they're operating on a level of physics. We can't even 562 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,319 comprehend the communication barriers, the biological differences. It's thrilling and 563 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,119 frankly a little terrifying. 564 00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,759 Speaker 2: That Analogyjje of taking a one way trip on a 565 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,640 UFO that lands in your yard. It captures that feeling perfectly. 566 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,799 The sheer scope of the unknown, and. 567 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:10,039 Speaker 1: The data from three i at list is pushing us 568 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:12,839 away from the simple commet model and towards something far 569 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,839 more complex, something that feels thrillingly technological. We're on the 570 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,079 edge of something new, but only if we're willing to 571 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,559 accept that sometimes a rock isn't just a rock. 572 00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:25,039 Speaker 2: The anomalies are crying out for a technological explanation, even 573 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:27,640 if we can't prove what that technology is just yet. 574 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,359 The evidence is pointing us right back here to our 575 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,319 own solar system to find the proof. 576 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 4: So we want to leave you with a question that 577 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,240 bridges all of this. If the intelligence community is already 578 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:40,279 analyzing potential black swant events like three i AT lists, 579 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,559 do you think our approach to finding non radio based 580 00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:47,720 advanced technological artifacts right here in our own solar system. 581 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:48,519 Speaker 1: Needs to change? 582 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: Should we rely less on our current training data set 583 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,160 and get more aggressive about exploring these local museums the 584 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,200 moon in Mars. Tell us what you think about the 585 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,519 Trojan Horse prospect. We'll see you on the next thrilling 586 00:27:58,559 --> 00:27:58,920 threads