WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.279 It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast special report. 2 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:18.760 The Lapse Fan presents the Complete Hull Coogan, a real 3 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:23.519 American story brought to you by Garage Pierre al Gpa. 4 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:25.399 As you know what, we're trying to really get as 5 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.199 much of the flavor of what the WWF Hul Cokein 6 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:30.320 worked in his first run in New York in on 7 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:31.280 the complete Hull Cooke. 8 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:33.840 Absolutely, I mean that's the only way we can we 9 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:36.960 can call, we can claim take the claim to be the. 10 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:38.280 Complete Hull cook That's right. 11 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:41.880 And we have watched so many matches, yes, the promos 12 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:44.119 from Allentown and Hamburg, PA, where they did their TV 13 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:46.600 at the time, and when it wasn't Joe McHugh on 14 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.799 the microphone, it was the one and only superstar ww 15 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.640 announcer as well Gary Michael Capetta ringing in Hogan and 16 00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:57.240 the rest of the casting characters that existed in seventy 17 00:00:57.320 --> 00:00:59.960 nine to eighty one. And we have mister Kapetta here, 18 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.479 the author of Body Slams Memoirs of a Wrestling Pitchman, 19 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:06.920 highly recommended, a wrestling book that's been out there for 20 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:09.200 some time, and we've talked about it many times over 21 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:11.200 the course of the show, and we're really privileged to 22 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:13.920 have Gary in with us here on the complete Gary, 23 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:18.840 thank you so much for joining us. Okay, right off 24 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.439 the top, Gary, we'd love your memories of what it 25 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:24.280 was like in the circuit at the time we're talking 26 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:27.239 about seventy nine to eighty one, or of course the tapings. 27 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.280 I think every three weeks, Gary, did you announce the 28 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.319 Hamburg or the Allentown shows? 29 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:35.239 When I first started, I. 30 00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:44.560 Yeah, at the Philadelphia Arena, and after about a year 31 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:49.840 and a half I switched over to Hamburg and I 32 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:55.480 was in Hamburg. The Philadelphia shows were every third Tuesday night. 33 00:01:55.599 --> 00:02:02.079 The Hamburg shows were every third Wednesday night. So it 34 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.799 was I think it was probably eight years all together, 35 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:08.960 and the first year and a half was in Philadelphia 36 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:13.000 and then the rest of that stretch was in Hamburg. 37 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:14.039 Pretty good. 38 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.319 So what was it like if you can recall anything 39 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:19.800 about Whenhult came in, do you remember buzz around him? 40 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.280 What was it like announcing him? 41 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:29.080 M Well, no, my only reference would be would. 42 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:35.520 Come from seeing ah, you know, seeing videos today of 43 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:39.759 what happened back then. Sure, back then there wasn't anything 44 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:40.800 special about him. 45 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.319 He's the first time he came in. 46 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:48.719 He wore a cape which was like a silk, multi 47 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:52.039 colored cape, which I thought was kind of chintzy and 48 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:59.120 cheap looking. But no, there was nothing special other than 49 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:02.560 you know, his side. He was a big guy, and 50 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:05.560 I knew that they were pushing him because they gave 51 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:13.520 him a manager. But no, there was nothing, nothing special 52 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.240 about him at all. 53 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:17.280 Very interesting. So what degree did did you have interactions 54 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:20.000 with the talent before you went to the ring to announced? 55 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.319 Did you have to converse with them backstage at all 56 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:24.400 or did you just show up and start doing your announcing. 57 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:30.199 Well, at the time, I was teaching school and I 58 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.080 was three hours away by car, so by the time 59 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:39.560 that I got to the arena, it usually would only 60 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.560 be within a half hour before we started taping. And 61 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.400 on those nights we did three TV hours, so that's 62 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:55.479 eighteen matches wow wow, and at least one dark match, 63 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.680 which was at the end of the night, which was 64 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:02.400 a competitive have matched, And that was to draw the 65 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.039 people to the show and to keep them to the end. 66 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:10.759 So I and this was the first place that. 67 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.439 New people to the territory would come because they would 68 00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:18.360 be put on TV before it's sent around to the 69 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:22.319 local arenas, so I had to get information about them 70 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:27.079 because I had never introduced them before. There wasn't much 71 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:35.000 time to interact with anybody, and there was maybe six 72 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:41.639 to eight minute intermissions in between the first and the 73 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:43.759 second hour, and then the second and the third hour, 74 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.680 and I would always change because I didn't want to 75 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:56.160 be seen wearing the same clothes two weeks in a row. Yeah, 76 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.959 so I to answer your question for all those res 77 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:06.399 since I didn't have much interaction with the restlers. 78 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:09.560 As we've watched all these shows, Gary and JP can 79 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:13.319 certainly attest to this. Jp, we note the differences between 80 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:16.279 when Hulk is called the fabulous, yes, when he's called 81 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.680 the incredible And I don't know Michael if Gary, sorry 82 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.839 if you can remember, remember this part of it. But 83 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.920 we muse endlessly about how some weeks, either you or 84 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.600 Joe refer to him. Well, actually, if Gary, you were 85 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.439 the one who took the note apparently to call him 86 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:37.040 the fabulous whole Cogan, Joe would call me incredible Hull Cogan, 87 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.600 and then Vince on commentary would correct him and say 88 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.199 the fabulous whole Cogan. I mean, do you remember that 89 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:43.160 specific note? 90 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:51.240 No? No, okay, Now, as I sit here today. It's 91 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:52.519 it's insignificant. 92 00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:56.639 But yeah, I know there was no big deal. It 93 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:58.879 was I received. 94 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:05.160 Let me think a second, sure, hmm, Maybe I did 95 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:12.839 not receive anything printed. There was a list of the 96 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:17.600 matches that was taped to the wall, and there probably 97 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:23.160 was nothing. There was nothing typed out, so I would 98 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:29.759 just get the information from the wall and when I 99 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:34.360 would talk to the wrestler the first time he came in, 100 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:37.720 he gave me where he was from, when he weighed, 101 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:42.279 and if there was anything special about introducing him, and 102 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.240 I guess it was at that point that I learned 103 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.279 if he had a manager, who was manager was and 104 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:52.160 then if there was, then I never would check back 105 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.480 with him like in the coming takings, and if there 106 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:57.560 was any change to be made, they let me know 107 00:06:57.639 --> 00:06:58.519 that there was a change. 108 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.120 Otherwise I wouldn't I wouldn't know. 109 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:03.439 Cool. So it's good to know that's how it worked. 110 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:05.519 The reason we've talked about it Gary over the weeks 111 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.720 as we've looked at Hult's career is when he first 112 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.959 started out in Alabama in the spring of seventy nine, 113 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:12.000 he was called the Hulk for the first time, and 114 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.240 that was clearly a ripoff of what was going on 115 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:16.160 with lu Frigno and the Incredible Hulk at the time. 116 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.480 Ripoff is, you know, not the best way to put it, 117 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:20.480 but that's where they got it from, and I think 118 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.959 there was some sensitivity. We talked to Charlie Platt, who 119 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:25.240 did the television announcing down there back then, and there 120 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:27.439 was a bit of sensitivity about, you know, Marvel coming 121 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:29.519 after them on copyright grounds if they called him the 122 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:32.160 Incredible Hulk, which of course was a character in the 123 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.199 Marvel series. So we wondered if at any point there 124 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:38.439 was word to you guys as announcers, as the voices 125 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.560 of the show, that we don't want to call him incredible, 126 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:44.199 we want to call him fabulous. Maybe interchange the two 127 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.000 so that we can't be accused of, you know, trying 128 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:48.480 to use someone else's copyright. 129 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:51.800 If that was the case, I was not aware of it. 130 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:53.759 Very good, fair enough. 131 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:58.000 So here you are announcing these shows and we were 132 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.839 at the Spectrum one time he was wrestling on and 133 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.560 there was a little bit of jostling while you're holding 134 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:04.680 the microphone. Holt kind of gets in your face, and 135 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:06.680 I think even kind of gives you a little bit 136 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.319 of a shove. Do you remember anything like that where 137 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.360 you were in the ring and wrestlers Hogan or anybody 138 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.800 else would kind of jump at you and try to 139 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:15.800 get some heat by giving you a hard time. Was 140 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:18.120 that talked about ahead of time? I was curious about that. 141 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.199 Everything was spontaneous. 142 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:23.160 So how did you handle that? If he's coming at 143 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:23.639 you like that? 144 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:29.000 Just do what makes sense. That's that's the bottom line. 145 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.000 If you do what's logical. 146 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:32.679 If if. 147 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:41.639 You're five eight and one hundred and fifty pounds and 148 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:45.799 this three hundred pound guy who's let's say six four 149 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.639 or five six comes after you, what. 150 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.840 Would you do? Just do it? Just do what's logical. 151 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.879 Run away, get out of the arena, go as far 152 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:57.279 away as possible for me? 153 00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:59.240 Is I would? I would leave the arena never to 154 00:08:59.240 --> 00:08:59.720 be seen again. 155 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:04.360 You just watched what I did, and that's what was logical. 156 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.159 Yep, yep, that was That was fascinating to know that 157 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.679 that was spontaneous, because yeah, that's that's where the're putting 158 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.639 folks on the spot. But they it was a different 159 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.679 business back then. I'd imagine if you haven't. 160 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.320 I wouldn't want to know, right, I wouldn't want to 161 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:27.080 know I had interactions with George Steele, Jimmy Snooka, Mousse, Monroe, Hogan, Andre, 162 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:35.679 you know, just spur Mike Sharp, Just things happen, and. 163 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.200 Sometimes the decisions that they make are spur of the 164 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.559 moment decisions and it's up to me to react however, 165 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:48.240 you know, whatever is appropriate. 166 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:49.200 All right, good? 167 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:52.919 Can you tell us about Joe McHugh, your dealings with him? 168 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:53.759 What kind of guy he was? 169 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.879 He's an interesting character in this time period in WWF. 170 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.480 I didn't have dealings with Joe. There was no for 171 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:02.159 the two of us to be at the same place 172 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:02.960 at the same time. 173 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:06.120 Oh never, okay, understood? Yeah, well it was his was 174 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:07.840 he sort of with the commission in terms of why 175 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:10.600 he got assigned to shows? I had the understanding that 176 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.440 the WWF, if they had their choice, might not have 177 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.000 used him as much as they did. Did you get 178 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.399 any sense of that in your time there? 179 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:23.559 I don't know, because I wasn't around him at all. Yeah. 180 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.039 Well, one character that's around quite a bit. Character perhaps 181 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:29.519 isn't the greatest word, but is doctor George Zaharni, and 182 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:31.759 you see him front row on a ton of these 183 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.519 shows in this time period. What was your sense of 184 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.919 George and kind of what he was he was there 185 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.639 to do, and to what degree were you surprised when 186 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:48.279 all the controversy happened with him. 187 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:49.440 I wasn't surprised. 188 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:54.240 I mean, he he had you know, he was freely 189 00:10:54.279 --> 00:11:00.399 distributing drugs to the guys, and yeah, I mean, and 190 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:04.639 that's what he was accused and convicted of, So there 191 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:08.080 was no surprise. Once again, I didn't have any interaction 192 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.840 with him. He was a little bit of a ham 193 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:20.000 you know. You can tell. You can tell, I mean 194 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.639 especially if you if you watch the show now and 195 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:26.919 you take a look at it back then. At the time, 196 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:34.879 I didn't necessarily like watching myself on television, so I 197 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.960 wasn't watching the TV show. But now when I take 198 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.600 a look at it, I see, you know, for instance, 199 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.759 there might be a certain referee who just happens every 200 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:50.399 time I'm introducing someone who happens to be right behind me. 201 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:55.240 You know that that's not that just doesn't happen. He's 202 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:58.080 positioning himself so he gets on camera, So. 203 00:11:57.960 --> 00:11:59.720 He gets on camera. That I'm glad for that color 204 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.360 because I did wonder if he had to sit right there, 205 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.720 you know, hard camera, right in the center, so to speak, 206 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.000 and of course he did angles. You might remember the 207 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.720 night he didn't get involved with Eddie Gilbert got pile 208 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.720 driven on the floor and he did like a fiery 209 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:14.360 promo like he was a manager or something. 210 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.000 Yeah, I have no memory of that, Okay. 211 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:22.879 When it comes to Backland, Backland was the champion at 212 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.960 the time that Hogan came in, of course, and they 213 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.240 worked together, particularly in the earliest days of Hogan's arrival, 214 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.639 and some of the matches we've seen were quite good. 215 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.639 Can you take us back to any memories you have 216 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:36.080 of sort of the energy Backland was able to create 217 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.840 in the arenas at this time period and how different 218 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:40.440 it was than a Bruno or a Hogan. 219 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:55.519 Yeah, I h it was less. I mean I can't. Yeah, 220 00:12:55.639 --> 00:13:00.000 I don't. When you say create energy, I don't even 221 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.840 associate that with Backlind. 222 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.679 That's a good point. 223 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.240 With Runo, there was. 224 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.960 The reaction of the fans came from their heart and 225 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:26.720 it was an emotional reaction. Reaction to Hogan now starting 226 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.200 to use music was more of a this is a 227 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.600 cool thing to do, and the reaction came more from 228 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:42.320 their brain as opposed there to their heart. And so 229 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:49.080 there were energies, but different kinds of energies. I don't 230 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:57.000 associate either of those with with Backland. And it's not 231 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:03.720 that people didn't care. People care, but it was it 232 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:06.440 wasn't as deep. I guess that's how I would put it. 233 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:07.120 Very good. 234 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.120 Yeah, that is a perfect way to put it, I think, 235 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.799 because you hear so much about you know, he was 236 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.879 howdy doty, he was boring, he was he wasn't, you know, 237 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:19.960 the most charismatic force, of course, coming after Superstar. But 238 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.080 then Gary, we go back and watch these matches JP 239 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:23.759 and in some cases it's like he's got the house 240 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:24.200 on fire. 241 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:24.519 You know. 242 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.320 It's like it's hard for us, not. 243 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.799 Sitting in the seats in the arenas at the time, 244 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:29.519 to see what people are even talking about with him. 245 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:31.840 I get that he's dull looking and sounding, but the 246 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:33.080 crowd seems excited for him. 247 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.879 And I was surprised actually in some of the matches 248 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:38.559 at how fast paced he was because I'm you know, 249 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.120 I'm a kid of the nineties, and so I remember 250 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:44.080 watching him and like in the early nineties when he 251 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:45.679 first made his come back to w W, and he's 252 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.759 being kind of slow and not exciting, and and I 253 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.120 was surprised at how at the level he was able 254 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:55.080 to bring Hulk Hogan up to in the ring. 255 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.720 Well, of the three of them, he's the best wrestler. 256 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:08.120 Yeah, Like, technically, there's there's no doubt about that. But 257 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:14.240 the best wrestler doesn't always sell the most tickets. 258 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.480 Of course, that's true. 259 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:19.120 Yeah, And that's another kind of head scratcher with Bob 260 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.879 because you know, while the Garden wasn't teeming at the 261 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:24.919 brim like it was with Bruno, in terms of attendance, 262 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.879 for Bob he did quite well too. His Garden attendances 263 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:32.120 were pretty solid. It's it's a fascinating run that doesn't 264 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:33.879 get talked about a lot. And of course mentioned he 265 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.200 took the belt off Superstar. What did you think Gary 266 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:40.039 about Superstar Graham versus hul Cochin. I don't know if 267 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.360 you ever thought about the two in contrast but or 268 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.679 in comparison, but it really looks and sounds like Hulk 269 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:48.879 was taking so much from Superstar at the time that 270 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:51.399 they maybe even saw Hulk as a replacement for Superstar, 271 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.320 who wasn't even in the mix at the time Hulk 272 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.200 came in in seventy nine. Did you think that a 273 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:58.879 Hulk was you know, maybe too much of an imitation 274 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:05.639 of Billy Graham. 275 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:12.039 The Hulk, Well, just just my opinion, he was more manufactured. 276 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:19.279 He was more manufactured by management. 277 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.399 So I'm not saying that the way Superstar League Grant 278 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.240 presented himself was natural or the way he the way 279 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:31.279 you know he ordinarily would be, but that all came 280 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:38.440 from him, and I think Hogan was more of a creation, 281 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:41.159 an external creation. 282 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.080 Yeah, that's a very stude point. Yeah, that's sort of 283 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.399 what I meant by that could sound like an imitation. 284 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.200 Is with Graham, you could tell it was coming from 285 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.240 his gut, coming from this sort of you know, idea 286 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.360 he had created of how he talks and how it 287 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.039 carries himself, and it did come off natural. Hogan, it 288 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:00.919 seemed like he was really trying to do his best 289 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.159 to have the same intonation as Billy Graham, really sound 290 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.559 exactly like him. And that's exactly what it is. He's 291 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:10.279 sort of being being told or telling himself to mold 292 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:11.400 himself to that model. 293 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.440 When so, I guess the question is which to which 294 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.240 I don't have the answer is if you are correct, 295 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.160 and I don't know, I don't know anything that would 296 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.799 contradict what you just said. Why didn't they just stick 297 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.039 with superstar Billy Graham? 298 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:27.880 Yeah, I know. 299 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.720 I think not not to get to the history lessons, 300 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.519 because I'm not an expert in all this, but I 301 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.960 think Billy kind of left after they put the title 302 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.640 on Backland in seventy eight. I don't know if you 303 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:39.599 remember much of this, but Billy was very vocal in 304 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.599 his book and in interviews before his passing about how 305 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.799 vehemently against losing the title he was to Backland in 306 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.319 that he thought he was really rolling, you know, that 307 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:51.279 the garden was sold out. The people, even though he 308 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.480 was a heel, were showing up just in as much 309 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:56.039 of a droves as they would for a Bruno in 310 00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:59.079 some ways, and he really did. He kind of felt 311 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:01.440 slighted by the fact that they stuck with this concrete 312 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.920 plan to put the belt on Bob Backland at a 313 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.880 day and time certain, even though he had more than 314 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:09.000 earned the chance to see how much further he could 315 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.160 take it. So I don't know if that jobs with 316 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.519 your recollection, Gary, but I think it was less that 317 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.039 they got rid of Graham and more that he skipped 318 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.920 town because he was frustrated by that decision. But maybe 319 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:20.000 it's more complicated than that. 320 00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:20.440 I don't know. 321 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:28.799 I'm looking at you're you're saying that he left town 322 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.079 after they made the decision, and I'm saying, why did 323 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:36.279 they make that decision? So I agree, So, I you know, 324 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:40.279 I agree with his with his take on things. 325 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:46.400 I would have been frustrated too. 326 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:51.480 I can understand where he's coming from, especially if you. 327 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.319 Fast forward and knowing that. 328 00:18:56.039 --> 00:19:02.039 After Backland's run, that the next law run was someone 329 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:11.319 who who's appeal was even though it was manufactured, it 330 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:16.119 was along the same lines of what brought to the table. 331 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.720 Right, Yeah, you can't you can't stick with me, but 332 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.720 you can go with him. Perhaps the difference then, Garrett, 333 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.240 I'd love your thoughts on this to the degree you 334 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.319 were able to observe it. Seventy eight we're talking Vince Senior. 335 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.680 Eighty four when Hulk is made, We're talking Vince Junior. 336 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.440 You know, how did that transition land in your kind 337 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.119 of awareness? Did those changes you know, become evident to 338 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.240 you over time that Vince Junior is really the one 339 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.079 who has bought this thing. I think it was an 340 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:43.240 eighty two and it is kind of steering the ship. 341 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:52.079 Now not from the creative side of things, because in 342 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.599 order to be in the know on that, you would 343 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.680 have to be behind the scenes in their meetings and 344 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:03.240 on their eavesdropped in their telephone calls between the partner. 345 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:08.799 So I don't think there's anybody who other than there's 346 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.799 nobody alive today other than Vinnie who would know that 347 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:19.319 answer to that question. But I definitely saw the changes 348 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:24.279 and how they affected me, which the main one was 349 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:34.759 grillamant Soon losing his partnership status affected me because I 350 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:40.000 was brought into wrestling by grillam on Soon, and I 351 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.240 was kept working by grillam on Soon, and I was 352 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.279 put on TV and kept on TV by Grilla Monson. 353 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.519 So when Grilla mon Soon lost his power, I lost 354 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:52.839 my position. 355 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:59.799 You were pretty tack with girl, Yes, how how far 356 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:01.440 by did that relationship. 357 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:07.359 Go nineteen seventy four when he was he brought me 358 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.359 into wrestling? 359 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:15.400 Did did you ever partake in his Italian sandwiches that 360 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:17.559 I've heard so much about? We've heard so much. 361 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:23.480 About Italian sandwiches that I have no memory of that. 362 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:26.400 He's a lapsed fan. 363 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.480 Wrestling podcast with Jack and Carnacio and JP. 364 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:39.759 Soorro he's a lapsed fan. 365 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:42.519 Wrestling podcast Brent Solomon just came out with a book 366 00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:45.359 and he talked about how Gorilla would famously slap together 367 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:47.359 sandwiches on the road and it was kind of a 368 00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:49.400 it was kind of a luxurious thing to travel with 369 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:51.839 him because he, you know, obviously insisted on the finest 370 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:54.119 foods in some ways. 371 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:58.640 Well, I read and I participated in Brian's book. But 372 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:02.160 you just answered the question you said on the road. 373 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:04.960 I was teaching school at the time. I wasn't on 374 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:05.599 the road. 375 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.720 Just showing up at the tapings, right. Yeah, we noticed that. 376 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.799 I noticed going back through Hogan's career, saw that really 377 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.640 one of the first people that was fed to him 378 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:19.279 was Gorilla. He pinned Gorilla very early in that run. 379 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.160 I think it was as early as February of nineteen 380 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.400 eighty after coming in in November of seventy nine. Do 381 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.799 you have any memories of talking to Gorilla Gary about 382 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.640 kind of where he saw his role establishing new guys 383 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.680 in the territory like that or was that just something 384 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:32.200 for Hogan. 385 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.000 I'm not understanding your question. 386 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:40.359 When new guys would come into the territory, would they 387 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.720 often be put over Gorilla to establish themselves as challengers 388 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:44.279 to the champion. 389 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.079 When you say put over, you mean would they lose? 390 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:50.640 Would they beat Gorilla? Is that what you're saying? 391 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.839 That's right? Yeah, pardon me, Yes, would they beat Gorilla? Often? 392 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.079 Did he see that as part of his role? 393 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.039 Hey, there are two Gorillas. 394 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:04.079 There's the wrestler guerrilla, uh, and there's management Gorilla. That's 395 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:10.119 why I didn't understand your question. I guess the answer 396 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:20.240 is sometimes, But they were, you know, they were always once. 397 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:29.200 Once Gorilla was more was closer to retirement, then he 398 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.920 would have been and you're what you're what, you're really. 399 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:39.119 Stepping stone to the champion. Yes, and yes, I. 400 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:44.720 Mean sometimes he would. He would serve and you know, 401 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.960