WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.120 First guest on this Tuesday Afternoon covers college football for ESPN. 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.719 It's been a number of months, but please to welcome 3 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.560 Kyle bondagera back on the show on a Tuesday. 4 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:12.199 Kyle, Happy Tuesday, man. How you doing good, Spence? 5 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:12.480 Are you? 6 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:13.240 I'm good. I'm good. 7 00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:15.519 I was looking at your I don't know, Twitter or 8 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.120 X whatever we're calling it. You have not been very 9 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.760 active on the socials as of late. What's what's been 10 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:21.600 keeping your attention? 11 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:25.559 Uh, you know, everything else that matters. I guess I 12 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:27.800 just kind of found that the more time I spent 13 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.079 on social media, the less I was getting out of 14 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:32.840 all of it. And I think, you know, if I 15 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.280 put more effort into the stores, I'm ready and care 16 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.240 more about those sort of things as opposed to kind 17 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.439 of caning followers on social media, Like I'm probably better 18 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.560 off long term, just like how I feel about the 19 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:47.719 job and just kind of day to day. So yeah, 20 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:49.479 I kind of just stop seeing the value for the 21 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:51.479 for the role that I do for the news breakers 22 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:53.799 and people like that. I think there's still value for that, 23 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.600 but when you're kind of doing feature stories and digging 24 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.039 out on specific subjects, I just don't think it really 25 00:00:59.039 --> 00:00:59.920 adds much anymore. 26 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.719 Everything else that matters was such a great Kyle Bonneger answer. 27 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.120 That was right on brand, A perfect answer, buddy, all. 28 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:09.599 Right, I wanted to start today because you're familiar with 29 00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:13.040 Dion Sanders and should Or Sanders and Colorado and have 30 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:14.159 covered that program. 31 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:16.400 And of course I'm not sure if you heard, Kyle, 32 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:17.000 because you're not. 33 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:19.079 On social, but should Or slid a little bit in 34 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:21.400 that NFL draft all the way down to the fifth round. 35 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:22.879 And it's always. 36 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.760 Interesting juxtaposing NFL Italian talent evaluators to what the media 37 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.000 believes is going to happen. And maybe this is just 38 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:34.040 as simple as NFL people don't believe that Shador is 39 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:36.480 worth spending a high pick on, and maybe it's more 40 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.319 nuanced and complex than that. I just wonder what your 41 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:42.040 takeaways are from watching shoud Or slip all the way 42 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:42.719 to the fifth round. 43 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:45.599 Yeah, no, I paid I paid pretty close attention to this. 44 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:47.280 I read a little bit about some the so it 45 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:49.840 was part of our kind of draft coveraging leading up 46 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:52.519 to and so I was really curious to see where 47 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:54.599 he went, where Hunter went, kind of where all the 48 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:56.560 players that I kind of paid a close attention to 49 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.239 during their college careers, landed landed in the d after. 50 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.439 It's kind of graduation day in that sense, and so 51 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:05.959 I think there's a lot to it, right. It's a 52 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:09.240 very complex issue when we're talking about Shador and why 53 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.319 he fell or or why he didn't fall, why everyone 54 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:14.280 just had him wrong and he didn't fall. He just 55 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.680 ended up where he was supposed to be. But I 56 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.280 think like the prevailing thought that I tend to agree 57 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:23.199 with is, look, if he was worth all the other 58 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:25.520 stuff that comes along with him, if his talent was 59 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:28.439 that good, if he was really a top five talent, 60 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.639 he would have gone there right. NFL teams would have 61 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:36.120 decided that if he adds wins, right, if he gets 62 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:39.719 you the those results, the things that matter, then you 63 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:41.520 can kind of put up with the kind of the 64 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:45.280 circus that kind of comes with everything Sanders these days. 65 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:51.039 But after the evaluations were complete, they determined, and this 66 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:52.800 is kind of where I fell too, is that he 67 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.680 really wasn't that great. I mean, there was a lot 68 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.000 of things he did really well, sitting in the pocket 69 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.080 through as the beautiful ball took a lot of sacks. 70 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:03.159 I thought there was a lot of stat padding going 71 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.840 on the story that I've kind of told friends over 72 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.520 the last few days kind of illustrates kind of why 73 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:11.400 I didn't really view Schedure as kind of a winning 74 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.360 player early in the year. It was first game of 75 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.560 the year, actually, I was there in Colorado to play 76 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:19.000 in North Dakota State. It's a one possession game a 77 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:22.879 minute in a minute in like forty five seconds ago, 78 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.360 somewhere somewhere in that range. So you had a chance 79 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:27.919 to just North Dakota State had one time out left, 80 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:30.319 so you had a chance to run the ball three times. 81 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:32.960 It would have taken you down to about ten seconds 82 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:35.680 and you could punt it away the game's over. Instead, 83 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:39.039 on first down he checks to a he checks to 84 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:44.159 a downfield pass, which was just a completely bizarre decision 85 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.759 in that game State. And then on second down they 86 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.919 passed again incomplete, So they basically gifted North Dakota State 87 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.719 a timeout and a chance in the time of the 88 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:56.280 game where they could have just completely ended it. North 89 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:58.439 Dakota State ends up getting the ball back. They marched 90 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:00.000 down the field, they come up a couple of yards 91 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:05.000 short of a thirty like a really lengthy drive with 92 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:07.159 thirty seconds left, and end up costing the game. And 93 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.039 so I just felt like that moment for me kind 94 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.520 of illustrated that he was more about his stats and 95 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.400 kind of all the other stuff than winning. And that's 96 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:17.199 just one example, and maybe that's a little harsh to 97 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:19.040 point that out, but I think there's like a lot 98 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.319 of examples, like the shows that this kid wasn't really 99 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:26.319 focused on the things that NFL teams wanted him to be. 100 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:28.600 And so when you're now all a sudden, you're not 101 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:31.759 drafting a starting quarterback, You're drafting some guy and compete 102 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:35.920 to be the backup. Now you have someone who's you know, 103 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:39.480 whose dad is, is a a list celebrity, he generates 104 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:42.720 headlines like few people do in sports and pop culture. 105 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:45.720 He's going to be calling f him to start. That's inevitable, right, 106 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.000 We'll see that soon enough with the Browns. And if 107 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.920 you're the head coach, if you're the GM, do you 108 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:52.519 want to deal with that for a backup quarterback? You know? 109 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:54.800 Probably not? So you know, we can talk about this 110 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.160 for days, But that's kind of the kind of where 111 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.959 I where I started my thought process and valuating every 112 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:00.800 for sure. 113 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.240 Do you think his dad did him a bit of 114 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.360 a disservice because you hear all these things where it's like, well, 115 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.959 Dion used to sandbag interviews too, It's like, well, he 116 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:11.360 was the best cornerback in the history of football. Like, 117 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.600 even if two or three teams were turned off about Dion, 118 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:16.600 somebody was going to take him and somebody was going 119 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.040 to sign him because he was just that good and 120 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:21.279 to your point and how you articulate, it was really 121 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.079 really good. Like with all of the questions that just 122 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:27.959 simply surrounded Shador as a prospect, if you remove all 123 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.639 the intangibles and everything on the outside looking in just 124 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:34.800 as a football player, it appears to be pretty clear 125 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:38.920 that out the talent evaluators didn't necessarily see him as 126 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.240 somebody that they were comfortable taking a high pick. And 127 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.240 I don't know, I don't want to say wasting on him, 128 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:47.519 but as far as like maybe the example he followed 129 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.959 from his father and Dion himself being front facing about 130 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.399 he is a top five pick and even at one 131 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:58.519 point alluding to maybe getting involved in harkening the whole. 132 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.920 You know, Eli Manningsitch, do you think maybe his pops 133 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:04.800 did him a bit of a disservice during this process? 134 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:09.199 Yeah? Completely, I think that's I think that's pretty clear that. Look, 135 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.279 there's a lot of benefits to having Deion Sanders as 136 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:12.759 your dad, right, there's a lot of ways that he's 137 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.480 been very helpful kind of shepherded him along his career. 138 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.040 But in this case, not only has he Deon Sanders 139 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.600 and been very vocal about all those things. I mean, 140 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:22.800 it was just a few months ago where you know, 141 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.240 there was speculation that Dion Sanders was going to be 142 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.519 a candidate to be an NFL coach. Right, So I 143 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:30.480 imagine you're the head coach, you have should Aro on 144 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.160 the bench, You're losing, he probably doesn't deserve to be 145 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:34.639 in the game. But now you're hearing all this outside 146 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.560 no is Now you're probably hearing, you know, should Deon 147 00:06:37.639 --> 00:06:40.000 Sanders be the coach? Right? And that's an element that 148 00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:42.879 didn't exist with Eli. That kind of adds to this 149 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:45.959 in a way that I mean, I you saw that 150 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:47.800 could be probably saw that the clips of the draft 151 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.319 room for the Browns, and they didn't look thrilled to be, uh, 152 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.879 you know, having picked Sugar Sanders. And it's certainly possible 153 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.720 that was taken out of context, but it's also possible 154 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:01.240 that they were not thrilled knowing that at every single 155 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:03.519 day with that guy in the building is going to 156 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.000 be examined in a way that it wouldn't have been 157 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.480 had he been somewhere else. And so you you certainly 158 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:12.680 benefit for b and Dan's sun, but there's a lot 159 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:14.800 of a lot of other stuff that comes with that, 160 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:16.399 and I think in this case, it cost him a 161 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:17.079 lot of money. 162 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.399 So his teammate Travis Hunter goes too. 163 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.639 And another player that you watched, another player that you covered, 164 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.759 I wonder what you what do you anticipate Jacksonville doing 165 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:31.399 with him? I mean a lot of conversation about whether 166 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.040 or not whoever drafted him was going to want him 167 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:36.399 only on offense or allow him to play on both 168 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:38.959 sides of the ball, which he did at the highest 169 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:43.040 of levels in college. And he was one of those players, Kyle, 170 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:45.360 every time I watched, it's like, yes, he is one 171 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:45.720 of one. 172 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:46.800 He is a unicorn. 173 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:49.519 He is as unique as any prospect I think that 174 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:51.240 I've seen in a long time. Do you do you 175 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.160 think we'll see a two way situation for Travis Hunter 176 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:55.000 in Jacksonville. 177 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:56.160 Every time Travis is. 178 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.360 Asked about it, he's very clear, salient in front facing, Yes, 179 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:02.079 I want to play on both sides of the ball. 180 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.160 Yeah. I just wanted to watch a video today kind 181 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.079 of showing his arrival in jack Minilson's behind the scenes 182 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:09.600 stuff there, and he was talking about how he wants 183 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:11.680 to get the playbook and then he corrected himself and 184 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:14.319 he's like, actually the playbooks plural because he needed offense. 185 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.360 And so I think, you know, all the signs indicate that, 186 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.560 you know, certainty to start off, they'll work him on 187 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.639 both sides of the ball, and you know, use that 188 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.240 information to kind of inform what the decision is during 189 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:27.839 the season. I think it makes sense to let him 190 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:31.000 try both. I don't know if in the NFL he 191 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.919 can you know, go go uh go full time both ways. 192 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.600 And he didn't start playing both ways full time in 193 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.360 college either. He kind of worked himself into that as 194 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.399 he became more experienced and more comfortable at the college 195 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:44.519 level too. And that's even starting you know, down down 196 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:49.799 at FCS with with with Jackson State. I've discussed this 197 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:52.799 a lot with you know, friends and you know, you know, 198 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:54.600 other people in the media, just like where is he better? 199 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:57.360 And I think the fact that there isn't really a 200 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:00.159 consensus that you have people arguing on both sides is 201 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.240 really probably the most interesting takeaway that it's not clear 202 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.960 he was. He started as a corner, that was what 203 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:08.159 he got recruited as. But you know, last year he 204 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.480 won the Bolinkopf Award as the best receiver, and part 205 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.240 of that is just name recognition, and there wasn't the 206 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:14.840 other candidates where you know, Nick Nash from Santive State, 207 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:18.159 He's not gonna generate a lot of hype nationwide, so 208 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.559 maybe he benefited just from from that to a degree. 209 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:22.679 But still he had over one hundred catches something like 210 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.120 that for well over one thousand yards. Was was unguardable 211 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.679 at times, it seemed in the Big twelve. So uh, 212 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:33.240 he's he's probably the most interesting prospect of his generation 213 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.440 because he's he is. He said it. He's one of one. 214 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.519 No one else's has been valued in the same way. 215 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.440 I mean, you probably have to go back to to 216 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:44.320 Dion right to see another guy who who got legit 217 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:46.519 run on both sides of the ball. And even that 218 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:48.440 was like packages ways to kind of use him as 219 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.720 either a decoy or to get in the ball like 220 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.080 early on, you know, early in a play. So Jack 221 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.039 Nville is certainly a team that can use the help 222 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.200 on both sides, and it's almost like he got to 223 00:09:58.240 --> 00:09:59.799 use two picks of one, you know. 224 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.840 Last couple of years, it's been an interesting kind of 225 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:06.559 situation to analyze, like former Pac twelve quarterbacks who have 226 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:09.279 gone on to do great things. And look, when Jayden 227 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:12.720 Daniels was at ASU, I thought he was fun, I 228 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:14.559 thought he was good. I thought and he was almost 229 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.200 a ute actually, which is kind of an interesting subplot. 230 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.240 But then he goes and wins the Heisman, and he 231 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.840 goes and just takes the world of pro football by 232 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:24.759 storm as a rookie. And I don't know that I 233 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:26.519 thought he was going to be that when he was 234 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:28.960 out in our footprint. And I'll ask you the same 235 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.600 thing about cam Ward who certainly was out of school, 236 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.600 you know, well in Wazoo and put up great numbers, 237 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.120 but kind of same thing. I don't know that I 238 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.039 ever thought he'd be the number one pick in the draft. 239 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.960 He transfers to Miami, of course, has a great year, 240 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.720 and he goes one in the draft and it appeared 241 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:46.639 to be a consensus. 242 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:47.919 Did that surprise you at all? 243 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.240 What was kind of some of your takeaways watching this 244 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:51.240 journey for cam Ward. 245 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.000 So I think by the end, I think it was 246 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.000 pretty clear that that was gonna happen. So I wasn't like Whens. 247 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.840 I guess he The better way to phrase my answer 248 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.159 is that if you would have asked me, you know, 249 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.120 two years ago, if I thought cam Mood would be 250 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:06.440 the number one pick in the draft, you know, they 251 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.200 would have been a resounding no. Absolutely not. I thought 252 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:11.200 he was the guy who had progressed to the NFL 253 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.240 and have a chance to be a pro, maybe even 254 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.799 for a long time. But I think the step forward 255 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.879 he took at Miami this year was really impressive, right, 256 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:22.639 I mean, they had arguably the best offense in college football, 257 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.000 and a lot of that was because of him. He 258 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.159 was He had a lot of really special moments. He 259 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:32.679 sits in the pocket, well, he's athletic enough to extend plays. 260 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.159 I thought his decision making got a lot better as 261 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:38.080 he progressed through college football. And I think a lot 262 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:40.080 of people in it, you know, maybe more people are 263 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:42.320 familiar with his story now. But keep in mind too 264 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:44.480 that he ran the wing key in high school, so like, 265 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.120 this isn't one of those guys who was bred by 266 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:50.399 some quarterback guru in the seventh grade, eighth grade, ninth grade, 267 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:52.919 and it was essentially a finished product before he had 268 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.320 a chance to really start going. He's someone who had 269 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.080 a lot of groan to do when he got to 270 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.000 college because it was his first time in a passing offense, 271 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:01.919 and so he had a chance to do that down 272 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.399 at the FCS level with an edding current word advance 273 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.799 his career at WC and kind of had that graduate 274 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.000 level of education at Miami and really did a good 275 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:13.679 job developing I think, and going back to shuduur right, 276 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:15.879 I think kim Ward really looked good in some of 277 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.799 those workout videos that got published Between the two and more, 278 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.440 he said, I want to be known as a football player. 279 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.039 Should was talking about, you know, let's let's you know, 280 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:24.879 let's cut a song together or something like that, and 281 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:28.360 Cam was very focused on football and football only. So 282 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.840 I think all of those, you know, the two progressions there, 283 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.519 I think it says a lot about both of those players. 284 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.480 Kyle, I want you to know that I'm a grown 285 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.320 up who can do hard things. So even though you 286 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.480 don't tweet out your pieces anymore, I was able to 287 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.679 find a couple of them. So I want to ask 288 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.600 you about the piece you wrote about Abdul Carter, who 289 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.320 a lot of people believe, you know, when we're talking 290 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:51.000 about the twenty twenty five NFL Draft in ten years, 291 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:52.919 this is the dude we're going to be talking about, 292 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.320 take us through this journey, positional change and what do 293 00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:59.000 you think what type of difference can he make for 294 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:00.000 the New York Giants. 295 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.399 Yeah, so he's a really he's a fascinating guy because 296 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.159 he's like I had a chance to speak with him 297 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.279 quite a bit down in Arizona head at the quarterfinal 298 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:09.720 game against b YU That's where I did a lot 299 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.080 of the interviews for that story, and really quiet guy, 300 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.360 a really cerebral guy, and I don't think he necessarily 301 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.240 think that when you think about, you know, big time 302 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.720 pass rusher at a big school, right, you kind of think, oh, 303 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.200 this guy is probably confident and brash and all those things. 304 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.039 But he is not that. He is an introvert, you know. 305 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:28.759 He talked to me a little bit about, you know, 306 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:32.000 playing chess and the analytical side of football and those 307 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:35.000 sort of things, but had a really good feel for 308 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:37.039 who he was and how he could impact the game. 309 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:40.000 So the story goes. You know, he started at he 310 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.879 came in as a linebacker. You know, he asked for 311 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:44.799 the number eleven jersey, which is you know, we saw 312 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:46.840 him try to do that again this week for Lawrence 313 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:48.799 Taylor's retired fifty six. So he asked for the eleven 314 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.000 jersey at Penn State, which is a big deal there. 315 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.480 There's a lot of significance, a lot of you know, 316 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.919 all time great players have worn it there. He goes 317 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.879 through summer workouts as a freshman. They were impressed by 318 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:03.080 him so much that they go ahead and grant him 319 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.679 that request. He gets the eleven, and then from day 320 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:08.559 one he is he is wrecking havoc as a linebacker. 321 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:10.960 But but two years in, he gets to that off 322 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.759 season after his sophomore year and he's like, look, I 323 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.279 think that can be I was a little bit out 324 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.480 of place. You know, he was playing weak side linebacker. 325 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:18.600 He does a lot of you know, hand in the 326 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.600 dirt rush and edge type stuff. But really thought he 327 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:24.600 should be as a defensive you know, be playing consistently 328 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.000 as a defensive end, not dropping into coverage in those 329 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.159 sort of things, even though he was physically capable of 330 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:33.720 doing so. Anyone who watched Penn State. Probably didn't take 331 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.200 a lot of time. So if you're watching for the 332 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.919 first time, you're like, oh, who's eleven? Right? He just 333 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:39.639 every snap it feels like he was. He was getting 334 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.080 to the backfield, disrupting plays. You know, his numbers were good, 335 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.320 you weren't generational or anything like that. But he affected 336 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:48.320 the game in a way that few players did. And 337 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.320 I think that NFL teams had noticed that well before 338 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.519 he made the position change, and once he added some weight, 339 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:56.519 kind of got his body to a place where he 340 00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:59.639 can be a defensive end at the next level. You know, 341 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:01.919 it was pretty clear that he was going to be 342 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.039 an early pick in a very early last year, and 343 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:06.440 so I had a good time talking with him. His 344 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.039 teammates were all very complimentary of him. Coaches raved about him. 345 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:14.720 Everyone I talked to about him. You and look, this 346 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:19.320 is so unusual, but it was all very believable and 347 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.519 it felt genuine that they really believe in this guy's 348 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:23.279 talent and who he was as a person. 349 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.879 All right, moving over to a little Utah football and 350 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:29.120 look it is April, so I'm not going to ask 351 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.039 you to break down there too deep for august In September. 352 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:36.960 But I just kind of wondering what your confidence level is. 353 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.559 Coach wit is back. 354 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.000 I didn't necessarily cover the will Kyle stay or leave 355 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.399 story as deep as everybody else. He simply is a 356 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.440 coach under contract, and my thought was he did not 357 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.679 want to go out like that. This spring game was 358 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.919 last week Forever twenty two game. I was up there. 359 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.679 I was able to catch up with Kyle and Morgan 360 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.279 Scalley and met Jason Beck for the first time. There's 361 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.720 a new quarterback in town and Devin dan Pierre. There, 362 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.559 there's a grip of new players, because of course there is. 363 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.799 That's not a Utah thing, that's a college football thing. 364 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.720 But after a failing to even qualify for a bowl 365 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.240 game and winning five games last year, I do feel 366 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.279 like maybe the pressure is off. You know, last year, everybody, 367 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.200 including me and I believe you picked Utah to win 368 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.559 the Big twelve and advanced to the expanded twelve team CFP. 369 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:22.960 And you know, there are a lot of outlets that 370 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:24.879 have already done the whole like way too early Big 371 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:28.279 twelve projection thing in Utah's mid table on most of them. 372 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.360 So maybe taking that pressure off or will help. But 373 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.159 do you have some confidence that year two in the 374 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.039 Big twelve will at least look better than year one 375 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:35.559 for the utes? 376 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:39.279 Yeah, I mean there's a there's a very fundamental way 377 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:40.759 to answer that. It's like, it can't be much worse. 378 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.919 You go two and seven, you're probably gonna do better 379 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.639 in the conference, right, because it's that the record was 380 00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.720 what it was. But yeah, but I said, like, I 381 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.759 just have never lost faith in Kyle Whittingham as they've 382 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:55.840 kind of had these two weird years. Right, there's a 383 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.519 lot of factors outside of his control that you know, 384 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:01.639 can trip to that you're you and your you know, 385 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:03.480 your listeners know that you know probably even better than 386 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:08.880 I do. And so I think with like, with those circumstances, 387 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.359 it wasn't that the program was falling apart. The defense 388 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.039 was among the best in the country. You know. The 389 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.200 quarterback thing was such an outlier in terms of how 390 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.599 a program should operate. The you know, the fact that 391 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.480 they didn't have a capable backup, someone who could step 392 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.599 in and win games two years in a row probably problematic, Right, 393 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.039 But when you add a quarterback like they did, who's 394 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.839 you know, has documented success and you bring his coordinator 395 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:34.880 with him, and so there's no learning curve with the offense. 396 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.680 That's a formula that has worked several times in college 397 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.880 football in recent years. I mean, we just talked about 398 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.319 cam Ward. You know, it worked for him at Washington State. 399 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:46.000 We saw it with Caleb Williams at USC. The list 400 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:50.480 goes on, right, and so I think it there's enough 401 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.000