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Speaker 3: It Show Die.
Speaker 1: People pay good money to see this movie.
Speaker 2: When they go out to a theater.
Speaker 3: They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in
Speaker 3: the projection Booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4: Hi, my name is Peter Parker. I have something to
Speaker 4: tell you that's gonna sound crazy, but it's the truth.
Speaker 3: She's a splainer. Man, can't tell anybody about this vacular secret. Okay,
Speaker 3: thank you, everybody.
Speaker 5: Good.
Speaker 3: Ask a lot of that.
Speaker 4: We used to know each other. We were together.
Speaker 6: But something bad was gonna happen.
Speaker 4: Me and the only way to stop it was to
Speaker 4: do the hard thing.
Speaker 6: You're gonna forget who I am?
Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna come and find you, and I'll explain everything.
Speaker 6: You're better tell you. I'm just waiting to tell me.
Speaker 3: May you see me again?
Speaker 4: My name is Peter Parker and I like a coffee.
Speaker 7: Is there anything else?
Speaker 4: Maybe I'll never read this to you help. Maybe I'm
Speaker 4: just writing this for me, and maybe that's my responsibility
Speaker 4: to live alone with the truth, because I'm not just
Speaker 4: Peter Parker, I'm Spider Man.
Speaker 6: We'll face with a threat that can be anyone.
Speaker 3: You sure you want to do this? Scorpion?
Speaker 6: You think I'm Scorpion?
Speaker 7: Talk the better.
Speaker 2: No manner for me.
Speaker 4: I hear any as what I promised you that I
Speaker 4: would keep you saying.
Speaker 3: Please, you just have to trust we come on, Hie.
Speaker 6: You're the only one who can sense it.
Speaker 3: Hey, can we do this one at a time? Please?
Speaker 6: You're the only one who can defeat it.
Speaker 3: The Spidey Tracker app says that Spider Man is in
Speaker 3: the direct vicinity. Kaya No way, that's crazy.
Speaker 6: Welcome to the Projection Booth time your host Mike White
Speaker 6: joined me for a special crossover episode with the Culture Cast.
Speaker 6: Is mister Chris Statue.
Speaker 3: The letter of the day is M for Mutagon.
Speaker 6: We are digging into Spider Man, Brand New Day, the
Speaker 6: new Tom Holland mcu film that just came out and
Speaker 6: borrows its title and a chunk of its DNA from
Speaker 6: the classic Peter Parker Mary Jane Reset comic era, along
Speaker 6: with the elements of the other storyline Chris. Before we
Speaker 6: get into what this movie is and into some spoiler territory,
Speaker 6: I want to know, is this movie worth the bucks?
Speaker 3: Is it worth going to see in theaters? I would
Speaker 3: think so. I think it is a worthy entry into
Speaker 3: a Spider Man franchise that is on its fourth film
Speaker 3: now as opposed to its third, and this feels like
Speaker 3: a fourth film in that it resets some things. I
Speaker 3: don't know how you feel about the Last Spider Man
Speaker 3: movie because we didn't talk about it together. I don't think,
Speaker 3: but the I was not the biggest fan of the
Speaker 3: Last Spider Man movie for the same reason I wasn't
Speaker 3: the biggest fan of Deadpool Wolverine. It was just a
Speaker 3: bunch of cameos. It was a bunch of fan service,
Speaker 3: which is fine for the first time you watch it,
Speaker 3: but has anyone gone back and rewatched those movies more
Speaker 3: than maybe once? Deadpool Wolverine doesn't hold up, and the
Speaker 3: best part of that Spider Man movie is Willem Dafoe, genuinely,
Speaker 3: which is not surprising given that he was the best
Speaker 3: part of the original Spider Man movies he was in.
Speaker 3: So the fact that this movie doesn't rely on any
Speaker 3: of that, doesn't rely on any multiverse nonsense, it doesn't
Speaker 3: have any of that. This is a and I've seen
Speaker 3: this kind of review mentioned, or this kind of point
Speaker 3: mentioned several times in other reviews. It's a more grounded
Speaker 3: Spider Man, and I think it is. This is the
Speaker 3: Spider Man that I grew up with in the comics.
Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, he's just out of high school.
Speaker 3: He's a young adult ish still doing ground level Spider
Speaker 3: Man work. And then there's more intrigue beyond that. So
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it a fair amount. I would say it
Speaker 3: was worth it. I don't know if Marvel's going to
Speaker 3: be two for two this year with films, because obviously
Speaker 3: we have Doomsday coming out at the end of the year,
Speaker 3: which you and I will cover. But I think so
Speaker 3: far this year they're one for two or one for one,
Speaker 3: I guess, because again I can't speak to the other
Speaker 3: one yet, but one for one, this movie's great. I've
Speaker 3: seen some reviewers say it's as good as Spider Man two.
Speaker 3: I don't hold Spider Man two in as high regard
Speaker 3: as everybody else. I think, for me, this might be
Speaker 3: the best Tom Holland Spider Man movie. I definitely think
Speaker 3: it's better than the last one. The Jake Gillenhall one
Speaker 3: is pretty good. The first one, I think is predicated
Speaker 3: on some things like not knowing that Michael Keaton is
Speaker 3: her dad throughout most of the movie is part and
Speaker 3: parcel to what really makes that movie work. So for me,
Speaker 3: I think this is the first Tom Holland Spider Man
Speaker 3: movie that I'm like, Okay, we have escaped the old
Speaker 3: Spider Man storytelling. We've escaped this spider Man of two thousands,
Speaker 3: twenty tens, and this Spider Man is firmly now his
Speaker 3: own thing. And there are moments in this movie that
Speaker 3: we have not seen with Spider Man before. There are
Speaker 3: things in this movie that again are so unique and
Speaker 3: novel and fun and interesting that for me, I would say,
Speaker 3: not only is it a worthy film to watch in theaters,
Speaker 3: but I think that this is the now the best
Speaker 3: Spider Man movie that we have gotten in the cinematic
Speaker 3: Spider Man era, which would have started with Raymie spider Man.
Speaker 3: So what about you, Mike.
Speaker 6: I'm curious you said that this film does some things
Speaker 6: that no other Spider Man movie has done, and I'm
Speaker 6: curious what you were thinking of for that.
Speaker 3: All of the mutant stuff, like actual mutant stuff anything
Speaker 3: with Again, I don't want to spoil that stuff, because
Speaker 3: I think that's the main spoiler of the movie. But
Speaker 3: we've seen Spider Man as a organic spider in the movies,
Speaker 3: but we've never seen it where he doesn't start out
Speaker 3: that way as Spider Man, but he's still Spider Man,
Speaker 3: and then he becomes that. We've never seen that in
Speaker 3: the movies. And so I guess I was more speaking
Speaker 3: to having not seen it in the movies, not so
Speaker 3: much the comics, because most of this is just a
Speaker 3: millunge of things from the comics worked into a script
Speaker 3: that works better than I would have expected. Because, again,
Speaker 3: to go back to forcing a bunch of villains into
Speaker 3: a movie, Spider Man three, both the Toby Maguire one
Speaker 3: and the Tom Holland one both had a lot of
Speaker 3: villains like replete an abundance, a plethora even of villains,
Speaker 3: and this one has a lot of villains as well,
Speaker 3: but I think it definitely manages them in a way
Speaker 3: that makes sense, and the through line I think with
Speaker 3: Jean Gray also makes sense.
Speaker 6: I feel that he has more friends than enemies in
Speaker 6: this one.
Speaker 3: Right, which is weird. We have a Batman Spider Man
Speaker 3: situation almost where he's interacting with the cops, which we
Speaker 3: have not really seen. We saw that sort of with
Speaker 3: Dennis Leary's character. But the less I think about those
Speaker 3: Andrew Garfield Spider Man movies, the better. Personally.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm trying to think of what his relationship with
Speaker 6: the cops was in the previous films. It feels like
Speaker 6: it was more dealing with Ice school than anything else,
Speaker 6: and the school trip and all that, and the second film,
Speaker 6: and then with the last one, I really don't remember
Speaker 6: any cops. It was so much about the whole, let's
Speaker 6: reset the universe type of thing. And I feel like
Speaker 6: the Spider Man films have not necessarily suffered because of
Speaker 6: the rest of the MCU. We've got our introduction to
Speaker 6: Tom Holland via one of the Avengers films. Is that
Speaker 6: Civil War that we got him introduced.
Speaker 3: That was Captain America Civil War, which is technically not
Speaker 3: an Avengers movie, but it's half of an Avengers movie.
Speaker 6: It so feels like An Order is.
Speaker 3: An Avengers movie. It's as much an Avengers movie as
Speaker 3: Ultron is. I guess it's just the steaks. They're not
Speaker 3: world ending steaks in Civil War in Asia. Ultron their
Speaker 3: world ending steaks. So I guess that's the line of demarcation.
Speaker 3: I would agree the Spider Man movies have suffered because
Speaker 3: he's had to be part of the grander MCU framework.
Speaker 3: The picture work that is the MCU relies a lot
Speaker 3: on Spider Man, which, again, Spider Man was a singular
Speaker 3: entity up until this point. He was in his own movies,
Speaker 3: doing his own thing. There was no crossovers, there was
Speaker 3: no The most we ever saw was Venom. That was it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, But in the comics he was very interactive with
Speaker 6: other people. That was the thing I always enjoyed was
Speaker 6: that he had his little area of New York, mostly queens,
Speaker 6: that he would deal with. You had Daredevil over in
Speaker 6: Hell's Kitchens, like everybody had their own turf, right, So
Speaker 6: you had all of these people that had their own area,
Speaker 6: and he would team up with them. Occasionally. I remember,
Speaker 6: especially when he got the Symbiote suit that he broke
Speaker 6: into the Baxter building, which was great that he could
Speaker 6: just bypass their securities pretty easily in order to have
Speaker 6: read Richards help him with this whole problem that he
Speaker 6: was having with the waking up, and he'd still be tired.
Speaker 6: He didn't know that the Symbiote was controlling him, taking
Speaker 6: him out for a ride at night, those kind of things.
Speaker 6: So I always enjoyed when he would do team ups,
Speaker 6: especially with the Human Torch. He doesn't team up with
Speaker 6: anybody really other than the Punisher, which I haven't watched
Speaker 6: any of these Punisher TV shows, the miniseries whatever they're doing,
Speaker 6: that weirdo movie thing that they did last time with
Speaker 6: that shot one shot with that really bad special effect
Speaker 6: that was making the rounds out on Reddit, I.
Speaker 3: Set Marvel's glad. That's all we know about that Punisher thing,
Speaker 3: if you haven't watched it is John Burnhal falling backwards
Speaker 3: off of a roof and it looking like a video game.
Speaker 6: But I thought that the relationship between him and Frank
Speaker 6: was fantastic, and especially I love the parallel now that
Speaker 6: Spider Man is forcing himself to be alone. He doesn't
Speaker 6: want to be alone, but he has to be alone.
Speaker 6: And there's that whole thing. I think it was at
Speaker 6: the end of the first Spider Man movie, the Raimy One.
Speaker 6: I can't remember if it was the first or second,
Speaker 6: where he's basically, I'm putting all my loved ones in jeopardy.
Speaker 6: I have to stop this here. In that third movie,
Speaker 6: he really was like, no, I have to make sure
Speaker 6: that nobody knows who the hell that I am, and
Speaker 6: thus wiped everything. But yet he's so desperate for any
Speaker 6: sort of friendship that he's now friends with the Punisher.
Speaker 6: I love that moment at the beginning where there's the
Speaker 6: girl who recognized him, Oh, we live on the same
Speaker 6: floor as I not anymore, and he moves up to
Speaker 6: the basically like the attic and creates his own lab
Speaker 6: up there. There's no mention of iron Man in this film,
Speaker 6: which I kind of like because there were moments, especially
Speaker 6: in the first Spider Man film, where it was in
Speaker 6: danger of becoming an Iron Man film because Robert Downey
Speaker 6: Junior's personality is so big and the Ironman character was
Speaker 6: so big. It's like Spider Man doesn't need him, but
Speaker 6: he did need that tech. I like that he's got
Speaker 6: the tech in this one, that he's proven himself that
Speaker 6: he can do all of these things on his own.
Speaker 6: He's got ev instead of needing Friday or anything like that.
Speaker 6: I really like that he's in this position now of
Speaker 6: you're talking about how this is the Spider Man that
Speaker 6: you're familiar with. This is also the Spider Man I'm
Speaker 6: familiar with. The Only thing that's missing from this is
Speaker 6: taking photos for the Daily Planet, and I appreciate that's
Speaker 6: not in this. It was actually better that he doesn't
Speaker 6: need to worry about that job at this moment. I
Speaker 6: don't know how he's making his money's pizza time, but
Speaker 6: it seems to be doing okay right now.
Speaker 3: And this was the thing with the end of that
Speaker 3: second movie where they're like, my god, look it's JK.
Speaker 3: Simmons again, which, by the way, never has come back
Speaker 3: since I'm not talking about I'm talking about it in
Speaker 3: this film. I think now it would be a little
Speaker 3: unbelievable to have Spider Man, or again Peter Parker going
Speaker 3: and taking pictures of Spider Man. People be like you're
Speaker 3: Spider Man, like, knock it off. It's It would be hard,
Speaker 3: I guess in this version of the MCU because everyone
Speaker 3: in the MCU and genuinely a lot of moments in
Speaker 3: this movie. There's a lot of moments in this movie
Speaker 3: that have to do with Spider Man's secret identity being
Speaker 3: found out or Spider Man's secret identity being in danger.
Speaker 3: And I like that, Like you said, we don't have
Speaker 3: something that's forcing us to suspend disbelief every time we
Speaker 3: deal with it, which is he's my friend. Like, okay,
Speaker 3: why is in every villain in the city just going
Speaker 3: after Peter Parker. Then, like again, that's to go back
Speaker 3: to the you know, why the stories of Spider Man
Speaker 3: have been the way that they are. They've had to
Speaker 3: ret con everybody knowing that Peter Parker was Spider Man
Speaker 3: multiple times. And I mean here the movie is doing
Speaker 3: that as well, because they kind of backed themselves into
Speaker 3: a corner with that second movie, and then in the
Speaker 3: third movie they did this, you know, complete forget with
Speaker 3: Doctor Strange. I think they actually nailed it in the
Speaker 3: landing here because this is kind of the landing as
Speaker 3: it were, from that third movie, from the fallout of
Speaker 3: the third movie. I think it works. I like that,
Speaker 3: like you said, we have Spider Man as is as
Speaker 3: he has ever been his own agent, with nobody else
Speaker 3: other than maybe the Punisher and the Woman from the Bear,
Speaker 3: which I loved by the way. I was just like, oh, so,
Speaker 3: now we have Spider Man kind of interfacing with the
Speaker 3: cops in kind of an interesting novel way. It's not
Speaker 3: like a Jim Gordon Batman. It's more like some of
Speaker 3: the things I've seen in other Spider Man entertainment, like
Speaker 3: Spider Man video games or stuff where he's working. No
Speaker 3: pun intended symbiotically with the cops to help them out
Speaker 3: where they can't really deal with a giant tank parading
Speaker 3: through New York City, but Spider Man might be able to.
Speaker 6: Which is a great way again to introduce the Punisher
Speaker 6: into this. And I really was very happy when it
Speaker 6: came to I don't really want to call her Black Widow,
Speaker 6: even though they're calling her black Widow in this Yelena
Speaker 6: now of the Thunderbolt slash New Avengers, and I was
Speaker 6: so afraid it was going to turn into Thunderbolts too
Speaker 6: for a minute, but I like that she just is
Speaker 6: there to help with a little bit of information. This
Speaker 6: movie feels very much like a detective story, which I
Speaker 6: think I really appreciate this whole idea of what is
Speaker 6: going on. We introduce that mystery of this tank being
Speaker 6: driven by this old lady very early on in this.
Speaker 6: We've got the opening montage. We first see the tank
Speaker 6: at eight point thirty something like that. I don't know,
Speaker 6: but it depends on if you include the Marvel logo
Speaker 6: at the beginning. By the way, I came late to
Speaker 6: this movie, I for whatever reason, thought that this started
Speaker 6: at one thirty. But it started at one. But thank goodness,
Speaker 6: my theater, which didn't used to have a long pre show,
Speaker 6: now has a very long pre show.
Speaker 3: Yes, about to say, it's double the link.
Speaker 6: So I missed the first five minutes, but thank goodness,
Speaker 6: there's already a rock. Yes, so twenty five minutes a
Speaker 6: pre show. So I didn't see any trailers, none of
Speaker 6: the commercials, nothing, So I'm.
Speaker 3: Happy about that.
Speaker 6: So I walked in when the tank was already rolling
Speaker 6: down the street.
Speaker 3: So what you're saying is you missed the nonsensical preview
Speaker 3: for doomsday that has no bearing on anything and has
Speaker 3: not gotten me excited for it. Okay, cool, good, because
Speaker 3: I think that's the best way to go into this
Speaker 3: movie is not being reminded that there are other Marvel
Speaker 3: things that are possibly not going to be good. Because
Speaker 3: for all of the success of the MCU, can we
Speaker 3: take a step back here and just have a conversation
Speaker 3: about what these movies would have looked like Without that,
Speaker 3: they would have looked like this movie where it's just
Speaker 3: we get to see the characters because Marvel owns them,
Speaker 3: but not everything has to be dialed into the grand
Speaker 3: mythology that is the MCU. Part of me now, with
Speaker 3: the success that Marvel has not been having, wishes that
Speaker 3: they maybe hadn't gotten so far so quickly with the
Speaker 3: MCU and flamed out as much as they had, because
Speaker 3: this Spider Man movie is really a return to form
Speaker 3: of a kind of superhero movie that we haven't had
Speaker 3: in a while. You think about the last MCU movies
Speaker 3: we've had, they've all been like directly dialed into the
Speaker 3: main mythos of this kind of multiverse story arc. This
Speaker 3: movie has none of that, Like you said, with Black
Speaker 3: Widow and Punisher, like they're there, but they're not there
Speaker 3: to the point where it distracts from Spider Man. This
Speaker 3: is a Spider Man movie and I know the last
Speaker 3: one had for Spider Man Editor three, but this one
Speaker 3: is so much more a Spider Man movie because I
Speaker 3: feel like, for the first time it after is the
Speaker 3: tone of just he's just a kid. He has these powers,
Speaker 3: and he doesn't even necessarily understand the powers, especially in
Speaker 3: this movie, because we're getting the Man Spider story, but
Speaker 3: we get to actually see Spider Man just dealing with
Speaker 3: what it's like to be a superhero in a world
Speaker 3: where the superheroes don't just have a needing place to
Speaker 3: go hang out at.
Speaker 6: We don't even see Avenger's Tower in this which I
Speaker 6: was pretty grateful for.
Speaker 3: It's so contained. If you hadn't seen some of the
Speaker 3: other MCU movies, you would not know, other than certain
Speaker 3: lines that they drop in this movie that there was
Speaker 3: a bigger world out there. Hulk and Black Widow and
Speaker 3: Punisher we understand that they've existed within this framework. This
Speaker 3: is not the first time they're being introduced, and I
Speaker 3: think even if you're just coming to this movie as
Speaker 3: someone who's never seen an MCU movie, I think you'd
Speaker 3: be able to understand what had happened to this point
Speaker 3: in some of their relations. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: because Spider Man is an unknown quantity as Peter Parker,
Speaker 3: but only known as Spider Man, and they have an
Speaker 3: interesting kind of conceit that they can play with here
Speaker 3: to get away with that they wouldn't otherwise. If we
Speaker 3: didn't have that, we'd have to be oh, hey, doctor
Speaker 3: Banner once again from the eight million times. It's like,
Speaker 3: I don't need any of that. Genuinely, I'm so glad
Speaker 3: that this is such a singular Spider Man movie in
Speaker 3: the way that they've presented it.
Speaker 6: It feels like this movie is comfortable in its own skin.
Speaker 6: It doesn't feel beholden to so many things, even with
Speaker 6: cam Urbertfifs the last movie or the movie before. I
Speaker 6: think it was the second one where they were talking
Speaker 6: about the blip a lot. Yeah, I didn't go back
Speaker 6: and rewatch all of these. Instead, for whatever reason, I
Speaker 6: ended up rewatching The Fantastic four First Steps yesterday, and
Speaker 6: I think it was just the idea of setting us
Speaker 6: up for them coming into the rest of the MCU.
Speaker 6: That also ties into Thunderbolts with them watching the footage
Speaker 6: at the end. So I was trying to refresh my
Speaker 6: wife a little bit about that stuff and just okay,
Speaker 6: this is where we're at with things. And once I
Speaker 6: started to get into the j Jonah Jamison stuff, she
Speaker 6: was just like, okay enough. I was like, and I
Speaker 6: was glad because he didn't show up in here, and
Speaker 6: I was they do.
Speaker 3: I don't even know how they would explain that anymore.
Speaker 3: I guess they could. Honestly, now would have been the
Speaker 3: way to do it, because j Jonah Jamison wouldn't know
Speaker 3: who he is, so just be like that that pesky
Speaker 3: Spider Man whatever. Yeah, But honestly, I Doctor Pearlmutter and
Speaker 3: I on my show, we often talk about choices that
Speaker 3: you make when you're making a film, but also the
Speaker 3: choices that they don't make, and the fact that they
Speaker 3: don't lean on j Jonah Jamison, I think is impressive.
Speaker 3: We don't need it. It's again, there's just like I
Speaker 3: don't need Uncle Ben. I don't need Uncle Ben at all.
Speaker 3: Aunt May, I think has been instrumental. Marissa Tomay has
Speaker 3: been instrumental at really helping ground Peter Parker and Spider
Speaker 3: Man in a emotionally resonant way that the other Spider
Speaker 3: Man movies kind of never met. Andrew Garfield movies really
Speaker 3: never hit it. They told me a Maguire ones a
Speaker 3: little bit Cliff Robertson was a pretty good Uncle Ben.
Speaker 3: But we get to genuinely feel like this Spider Man
Speaker 3: is a human being, and a lot of that comes
Speaker 3: from just them not doing the things you would expect.
Speaker 3: No Uncle Ben, Marisa Toomey instead, Aunt May, no j
Speaker 3: Jonah Jamison, just the city being appreciative of Spider Man,
Speaker 3: and they're not being any kind of wiggle room. I know,
Speaker 3: in our day and age, if a person like Spider
Speaker 3: Man existed, there would be all kinds of insane conspiracy
Speaker 3: theory shit. But I like that in this movie, it's
Speaker 3: just like the city is pulling for Spider Man collectively.
Speaker 3: I like that. I genuinely think that for me, that
Speaker 3: gives me an idea in a sense that the people
Speaker 3: that are making these movies don't feel super tied to
Speaker 3: having to do constant MCU future proofing setup bullshit. This
Speaker 3: movie is just like, you know what, who knows if
Speaker 3: in the next movie they'll just love Spider Man as
Speaker 3: much as they do now. But in this movie it works,
Speaker 3: I think tonally where they're coming from.
Speaker 6: It works absolutely, And that was one of the things
Speaker 6: I liked about the reemi Spider Man was when it
Speaker 6: was sider Man Day and they had the woman like
Speaker 6: playing the violin and doing the Spider Man theme and stuff.
Speaker 6: And I always like how they will work in the
Speaker 6: Spider Man theme, like here for ned with his app
Speaker 6: and everything, having that as the little notification tone. I
Speaker 6: thought that was good. But yeah, it was very nice
Speaker 6: to see the whole city pulling for Spider Man rather
Speaker 6: than he's an outlaw. We've we got that a little
Speaker 6: bit with the Dark Knight, that that whole thing at
Speaker 6: the end where it's like, oh no, I'll take all
Speaker 6: the blame for everything. And he runs off into the
Speaker 6: shadows with his big ears flapping back and forth, and
Speaker 6: then he just fucks off. There is no outlaw Batman
Speaker 6: that we get to see in the third movie. He
Speaker 6: just disappears into Wayne Manor and never comes out again.
Speaker 6: He becomes I think he even makes a joke about
Speaker 6: Howard Hughes, so yeah, and I think there's even a
Speaker 6: talk about keeping his urine and jars. But here, I
Speaker 6: like that everybody knows who he is and everybody's okay
Speaker 6: with it. Like that he is able to walk into
Speaker 6: Lena's apartment building nobody freaks out because it's Spider Man.
Speaker 6: They just know who he is and he's just part
Speaker 6: of the city. And I do like that relationship he
Speaker 6: has with the cop. I think that's pretty nice. She's
Speaker 6: kind of a surrogate mom a little bit to him.
Speaker 6: But yeah, Aunt May is so crucial and that is
Speaker 6: his core memory. When are we going to get to
Speaker 6: the spoilers with this one.
Speaker 3: I think we have to. Okay, when I think we
Speaker 3: both agree, go see this movie in theaters. Yeah, if
Speaker 3: you see only one MCU movie this year in theaters,
Speaker 3: it's probably I would lean into it being this one.
Speaker 3: You're not going to have a bad time with this movie.
Speaker 6: When Jean Gray first tries to enter into his mind.
Speaker 3: The worst kept secret in the MCAU since Toby Maguire
Speaker 3: Andrew Garfield being in another Spider Man movie.
Speaker 6: I'm very glad because I had no idea. I honestly
Speaker 6: had no idea what was happening in this movie. I
Speaker 6: didn't watch any of the previews.
Speaker 3: Previews they spoiled it by accident on the red carpet
Speaker 3: last week. Okay, when one of the people was like
Speaker 3: that my favorite part of the movie is Gene and
Speaker 3: that was the first time anyone had said anything publicly
Speaker 3: about it up until a week ago.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I loved that. I didn't know who the
Speaker 6: bad guy was walking into this. I saw the hand,
Speaker 6: the Red hand or whatever. For a brief second, I
Speaker 6: thought I saw a Scorpion, And I really thought Scorpion
Speaker 6: was going to be our main villain in this movie,
Speaker 6: with the way that he was introduced, which was just bizarre.
Speaker 6: But I liked when he shows up and I thought
Speaker 6: it was a really good suit and it's just nice
Speaker 6: to see a classic villain like that. So when Jean
Speaker 6: tries to enter into his head the first time, that's
Speaker 6: the memory that comes up, and that's the memory that
Speaker 6: keeps going back to. And that for me is basically,
Speaker 6: with great power comes great responsibility. But we don't hear
Speaker 6: that in this movie, and I was kind of glad
Speaker 6: for it. It's like we're breaking with tradition in all
Speaker 6: the right ways for me.
Speaker 3: They're hinting at it, they're remixing it. We have the
Speaker 3: Keith David kind of commentary that goes on during that
Speaker 3: Spider document that Peter's watching, which did you watch any
Speaker 3: of the previews for this movie? Didn't watch any of
Speaker 3: the previews. You should go back and watch some of
Speaker 3: the previews because the way that they use the Keith
Speaker 3: David narration is really good, Like it's really well done.
Speaker 3: It really makes you feel like the people that are
Speaker 3: making this movie are telling a Spider Man story. The
Speaker 3: last great Spider Man story I think anyone told was
Speaker 3: the video games, Like those Spider Man video games that
Speaker 3: have come out in PlayStation. Are the people who make
Speaker 3: those games get it. They're able to really like, you
Speaker 3: have the whole city, you have a whole cadre of
Speaker 3: villains and heroes to mess around with. But they really
Speaker 3: get to the idea of what spider Man, this version
Speaker 3: of Spider Man is and what his story in this
Speaker 3: movie is, which is finding himself again and who he is?
Speaker 3: Is he Peter Parker? Is he Spider Man? By the
Speaker 3: end of the movie, I love that it's I'm both
Speaker 3: and I can be both, And I like that it's
Speaker 3: that moment and you know what, it feels like. It
Speaker 3: feels like the reverse I Am iron Man moment, and
Speaker 3: it feels like this is a brand new day feels
Speaker 3: more like a I would say, for me, brand new
Speaker 3: day seems more about the mcu as a whole and
Speaker 3: less just Spider Man, because for me, that feels like
Speaker 3: this movie's big I Am spider Man moment, right, he
Speaker 3: could literally echo the I Am iron Man moment, but
Speaker 3: instead it's I am both, And that is so important
Speaker 3: Because Tony Stark, he was either iron Man or Tony Stark.
Speaker 3: He had a hard time being both. And I think
Speaker 3: we kind of saw maybe by the end of an endgame,
Speaker 3: even an endgame he says I am iron Man. That
Speaker 3: ends up being like the whole ego centric mantra, that's
Speaker 3: who Tony Stark is. Right, He could have been Tony
Speaker 3: Stark at the end of that movie, and instead it
Speaker 3: was about being iron Man that one last time, and
Speaker 3: in him being iron Man that one last time, he
Speaker 3: sacrifices everything. I don't think Peter Parker wants to sacrifice
Speaker 3: everything to be Spider Man. He wants to be both.
Speaker 3: And I like that this movie again, it's more emotionally
Speaker 3: in tune with what I was hoping Spider Man movie
Speaker 3: could be than any Spider Man movie before. Genuinely, this
Speaker 3: is an emotionally engaging Spider Man movie. Tell me the
Speaker 3: last time an mcu movie was emotionally engaging, genuinely. I
Speaker 3: don't even think there has been one. Maybe the Eternals,
Speaker 3: which I know will piss a shitload of people off,
Speaker 3: but it is the truth.
Speaker 6: I don't know. For me, it's endgame. I really teared
Speaker 6: up when you hear Sam say on your left that
Speaker 6: whole end battle. There's a lot of great moments in there,
Speaker 6: so I was really into that one, and I would
Speaker 6: have to say the previous one with Infinity War when
Speaker 6: Thor shows up, I mean the whole audience, including me,
Speaker 6: was cheering ourselves out, and when Black Panther bit it,
Speaker 6: I was pretty emotional as well, not as emotional as
Speaker 6: some of the people in the audience, but it was
Speaker 6: really sad to see him go because he was becoming
Speaker 6: a favorite character. Rip Chadwick Boseman.
Speaker 7: But there were a.
Speaker 6: Lot of moments for me in that In this world,
Speaker 6: I think when Aunt may bid it in the last one,
Speaker 6: I was pretty upset and really had hoped that wouldn't happen.
Speaker 6: But yeah, there are a lot of moments in this
Speaker 6: where I was just like, oh wow, I could really
Speaker 6: feel the heartstrings being tugged, you know, especially with all
Speaker 6: the stuff with both Ned and MJ which was really
Speaker 6: it's I like those characters so much, and I like
Speaker 6: the actress that played them so much, especially the guy
Speaker 6: that plays Ned. He does such a great job. I
Speaker 6: don't know if you've ever seen Reginald the Vampire, but
Speaker 6: he's the star of that show, really good show based
Speaker 6: on a book series called Fat Vampire. I think he
Speaker 6: plays the perfect fat vampire. And I just love what
Speaker 6: a fan of Spider Man he is without being a
Speaker 6: creep in this and I love his theories on who
Speaker 6: Spider Man actually is. I think that's the only time
Speaker 6: we see Flash. I was afraid that Flash was her
Speaker 6: boyfriend when he showed up, but I was quickly dissuaded.
Speaker 6: I was like, oh wait, no, that's just another guy
Speaker 6: with longer black hair.
Speaker 3: An Indian, another Indian looking actor. It was very funny
Speaker 3: because I thought the same thing when he came on screen. No,
Speaker 3: we only see Tony Revelori in the one shot with him,
Speaker 3: and I think it's Martin Starr because they were both
Speaker 3: from the last three movies. Again, there's not a lot
Speaker 3: from the first three movies. There's a lot from MCU stuff,
Speaker 3: if there's MCU stuff, but there's not a lot from
Speaker 3: the previous movies other than MJ and Ned, which I liked.
Speaker 3: I genuinely thought, like good reject the other spot. I
Speaker 3: guess there's Scorpion, but again, Scorpion was barely a part
Speaker 3: of those other movies anyways. It's not like Scorpion was
Speaker 3: a main villain. He was about as much of a
Speaker 3: villain in those movies as he is in this, which
Speaker 3: is to say he's being piloted by somebody else or
Speaker 3: has a different engagement with Spider Man. That's not just
Speaker 3: a direct villain, because wasn't it in the first movie
Speaker 3: he was stealing the equipment from damage Control or whatever
Speaker 3: damage control was with a clar was vulture, but he
Speaker 3: was part of cultures saying oh yeah, yeah, right right,
Speaker 3: that's why looks like Culture's gear, because they're all it's
Speaker 3: all kind of chatari tech, I'm pretty sure, is what
Speaker 3: this all was originally. And that's the thing. There are
Speaker 3: things that have fed into this movie that are deep
Speaker 3: MCU stuff. I guess when I meant emotional things like
Speaker 3: not characters dying or big stand up moments, but actually
Speaker 3: engaging with the character as what it means to be
Speaker 3: a superhero and that's not something that these MCU movies
Speaker 3: have been interested in doing. The only time we've really
Speaker 3: seen that in a big budget movie is those Chris
Speaker 3: Nolan Batman movies, And I think this movie is in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways what those movies could have been,
Speaker 3: which is, what does it mean for a person to
Speaker 3: give up their life to do this, because it's kind
Speaker 3: of hard to have a normal life if you're doing this,
Speaker 3: And Spider Man is now taking upon himself to see
Speaker 3: what it is that he could do to balance those
Speaker 3: things out, because stay your own by yourself is clearly
Speaker 3: not a viable option in the MCU. So I'm excited
Speaker 3: to see where they go with it because they seem
Speaker 3: to be getting at the fact that Spider Man. Any
Speaker 3: future Spider Man movie will have more of this kind
Speaker 3: of stuff, more him engaging and interacting with other people.
Speaker 3: It won't It'll be a Spider Man movie with other people,
Speaker 3: not so much like Spider Man in someone else's movie
Speaker 3: a La Captain America Civil War, because that was not
Speaker 3: a Spider Man movie. He just happened to be in it,
Speaker 3: which still one of the smartest things they've done was
Speaker 3: introducing him in a movie that wasn't his own movie.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, him jumping onto the screen after the under rus
Speaker 6: thing was just.
Speaker 3: That was still paying off to this day.
Speaker 6: The audience went fucking crazy for that man. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: I again, this is very much a detective story, him
Speaker 6: trying to find out what's going on at damage control.
Speaker 6: He even gives a Colombo line as he's leaving the
Speaker 6: office of the guy who's running damage control. He literally
Speaker 6: does one more thing and he's talking about the whole
Speaker 6: Vmax thing and asking me about that big vault. What
Speaker 6: could be behind the door of that big vault. I
Speaker 6: like that. It's kind of a mcguffin. I don't think
Speaker 6: there's anything inside that vault because they get in there,
Speaker 6: but she doesn't get what she wants. There is nothing
Speaker 6: waiting in there. When they kept talking about Vmax, I
Speaker 6: kept thinking, oh, Venom Max or something like that. I
Speaker 6: was just like, Oh God, I hope it's not the symbiote.
Speaker 6: I really hope we're not going that way. The other
Speaker 6: thing I was very surprised about is just the limits
Speaker 6: of the mutation that Spider Man is undergoing. I really
Speaker 6: thought we were going to see full fledged man Spider
Speaker 6: by the end of this movie.
Speaker 3: I was hoping for it as someone who enjoyed the
Speaker 3: cartoon in the nineties. I always think of that Spider
Speaker 3: Man toy with the spider face and the six arms,
Speaker 3: Like I knew they were not going to do it.
Speaker 3: They did. I guess they did as close as they
Speaker 3: were ever gonna do, right, Like, this is more like
Speaker 3: that story. And again this was when I was reading
Speaker 3: the comics. I've lapsed on reading comics, but when I
Speaker 3: was well fifteen or sixteen is when the other came out.
Speaker 3: And that's more what this is. It's like, he doesn't
Speaker 3: turn into a man spider, he just becomes more like
Speaker 3: a spider. The spider DNA is becoming more reactive for whatever. Again,
Speaker 3: mcguffin reason the let's add Bruce Banner to this movie
Speaker 3: of it all, which I think works again if we're
Speaker 3: leaning into now, because then again I joked about it
Speaker 3: when we open the episode like Emma's for Mutation, they
Speaker 3: say it a lot. And if you didn't know X
Speaker 3: Men were gonna be in this movie, they gave it away.
Speaker 3: Before Gene Gray ever shows up. He's like mutant this
Speaker 3: and muting that, and it's my RNA and it's my
Speaker 3: DNA and the mutation, and it's like, can we talk
Speaker 3: about how they've done this before, because they already did
Speaker 3: this with Scarlet Witch. The X Men have been in
Speaker 3: the MCU well in a decade now, but they had.
Speaker 6: To explain it all the way. They couldn't use.
Speaker 3: Em planing it all the way here too, is my point,
Speaker 3: they're doing the same thing that they did with Scarlet Witch,
Speaker 3: where it's like we have them and we're trying to
Speaker 3: figure out their powers, and in us figuring out their powers,
Speaker 3: they are able to better understand and then have an
Speaker 3: amplified version of their powers afterward, which is literally what
Speaker 3: happens in this movie by the end of it. I
Speaker 3: don't know if Jean Gray could do that stuff ahead
Speaker 3: of time, but by the end of the movie, she's
Speaker 3: able to literally create a bubble like fifty miles or something.
Speaker 3: It's like a huge like one hundred and ten kilometers
Speaker 3: or something around her what she hasn't been able to
Speaker 3: do upen to that point. So it makes me think
Speaker 3: what they were doing in this movie exacerbated that. Just
Speaker 3: like with Scarlet Witch being who is she being? Was
Speaker 3: it Baron Morto not Morto?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 3: Who the hell was it.
Speaker 6: But that whole thing was because of the Infinity Stones,
Speaker 6: which didn't really make a lot of sense. I kept wondering,
Speaker 6: if they destroy the Infinity Stones, or once Theanos gets
Speaker 6: his glove on the Infinity Stones, wouldn't all of their
Speaker 6: powers just go away? Wouldn't even kep him? Because you
Speaker 6: got to remember Captain Marvel Quicksilver vision, like all these
Speaker 6: guys are being powered by the Yeah, powered by the
Speaker 6: Infinity Stones, which is wild. That was the way we
Speaker 6: could explain all this stuff. Why we couldn't even use
Speaker 6: the word mutant. We had to use whatever that stuff,
Speaker 6: the Agents of Shield, which tied into the short lived
Speaker 6: TV show that was so bad, the Immortals.
Speaker 3: The Immortals, the one with black.
Speaker 6: Bowl, yes, and the one with the CGI hair.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. So all I mean the project Kevin Figy
Speaker 3: wishes we didn't mention in this podcast.
Speaker 6: So all that stuff was we need to get around
Speaker 6: mutations somehow, we need another way to explain how people
Speaker 6: have powers. It was a radioactive spider, It's gamma radiation.
Speaker 6: That was one way of doing it before we had
Speaker 6: the mutants. And yeah, I appreciate that we have mutations here.
Speaker 6: I appreciate too, once she forms that bubble around herself.
Speaker 6: It really reminded me of the moment when Professor X
Speaker 6: has a freak out and Logan and everyone is paused
Speaker 6: and can't move. Only Logan can you get through it
Speaker 6: because of his healing mutation. I like that a lot, and.
Speaker 3: It feels like this movie was made with that future
Speaker 3: proofing in mind, because we already have how they're going
Speaker 3: to have some of the mutants in the mcub because
Speaker 3: they're just gonna be reformed versions of the X Men
Speaker 3: from the Fox Ones, because that's how battle World is, right,
Speaker 3: It's just like everything gets mashed together and then we
Speaker 3: have new versions. So there's gonna be a new Tony
Speaker 3: Stark is what like all sorts of new stuff, and
Speaker 3: the new X Men are going to be predicated on
Speaker 3: the old x Men. So anything in this movie is
Speaker 3: already more or less we've seen it. Like you said,
Speaker 3: in the other X Men movie, they literally have cannon
Speaker 3: to draw from. And I'm so glad that we are
Speaker 3: finally at this point. I'm sure everybody Marvel is disappointed.
Speaker 3: It took fucking fourteen years or whatever it is to
Speaker 3: this point. Eighteen years, I guess it's eighteen.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well two thousand and eight was Iron Man, and
Speaker 6: we had stuff before him. Obviously, we had the Spider
Speaker 6: Men films and any all the way movies. I can
Speaker 6: go all the way back to the ground zero of
Speaker 6: like The Incredible Hulk, those kind of things.
Speaker 3: We don't know with Doomsday how far their net goes back,
Speaker 3: But I hope whenever we do see more of the Mutants,
Speaker 3: it's in this same vein that they've done with Geene
Speaker 3: Gray in this movie, which is giving us something we've
Speaker 3: seen before in some respects, but in a lot of
Speaker 3: other ways, mining things that have not been mined before
Speaker 3: in the comic books, because we've already seen certain things
Speaker 3: in the comics represented in the movies. A lot of
Speaker 3: the things that work for me in this movie are
Speaker 3: things we've never seen in the movies before that has
Speaker 3: never been represented in Spider Man before. Now. A close
Speaker 3: friend of mine who I podcast with from time to time, Dustin,
Speaker 3: he's huge Spider Man fanly like you are, and you
Speaker 3: guys are about the same age, and he was one
Speaker 3: of his complaints about this movie was like, it's a
Speaker 3: lot of things mashed in that are not necessarily related
Speaker 3: in the comic books, and I know you would agree,
Speaker 3: because that is the case. These are not necessarily all
Speaker 3: going on at the same time in the comics. I
Speaker 3: think they make it work. I could see, though, how
Speaker 3: one might take a little bit of umbrage with it,
Speaker 3: because they are and they've done this with a lot
Speaker 3: of other things, like this is maybe the one mcuie
Speaker 3: thing that this movie does. They're clipping certain parts of
Speaker 3: the story off to make this story smaller to fit together,
Speaker 3: good and bad. But if you like some if certain
Speaker 3: stories resonate with you more than others, I can see
Speaker 3: why you might be a little bit miffed that they're
Speaker 3: cutting parts of the story out to make way for
Speaker 3: another thing that isn't necessarily representative of the story in
Speaker 3: the comic books. We've had this conversation before. I think
Speaker 3: that the movies are allowed to do whatever the hell
Speaker 3: they want, like remix and remaster and do whatever. You're
Speaker 3: not beholden to anything. Really, I think there are some
Speaker 3: things you're beholden to, and I think that's why those
Speaker 3: Snyder movies fail so horribly, as like they don't understand
Speaker 3: the base idea of the characters. These characters, regardless of
Speaker 3: the setting always feel like the characters off the page,
Speaker 3: which is the thing that the MCU has always succeeded at,
Speaker 3: which is making a character who is at least representative
Speaker 3: of the character from the comic books. Maybe it's not
Speaker 3: a wonder one, but it's a close amalgamation.
Speaker 6: The comics are the comics and the movies are the movies,
Speaker 6: and I'm really okay with them being completely different entities.
Speaker 6: If I got then to have a shape when it
Speaker 6: came to differences between the comics and the movies, I
Speaker 6: would never be able to sleep at night. And I
Speaker 6: just my titles.
Speaker 3: More variable people that are like that though, that's true,
Speaker 3: but I not gonna say unfortunately, Like if you love
Speaker 3: something that much, I get it, like I would be
Speaker 3: hard pressed to tell you don't. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: like you can like both separately, like they can be
Speaker 3: loved on equal footing without their being the overlap is
Speaker 3: the character And that's all you need to like really say,
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 6: Just the comics themselves have been rebooted and reset and
Speaker 6: reinterpreted so many times in the comic books that if
Speaker 6: a movie wants to do it, as long as they're
Speaker 6: doing it well, I'm okay with that. I don't care
Speaker 6: about some of the changes because you have to make
Speaker 6: some of these changes. If I was so bent out
Speaker 6: of shape about stuff Venom like I already mentioned the
Speaker 6: symbio coming in from the Secret Wars, like that was
Speaker 6: changed so quickly. I think the first time was in
Speaker 6: the cartoon. And again the cartoon has its own history
Speaker 6: and all that stuff. So yeah, okay, rather than it
Speaker 6: being something from this like said Battle World with the Beyonder, No,
Speaker 6: it's j Jo.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 6: Jamison's son is an astronaut and he brings back this
Speaker 6: thing with him. Okay, same diff and like I've seen
Speaker 6: that in some of the movies, just it comes in
Speaker 6: different ways. I really don't care. It's yeah, okay, this
Speaker 6: is a different Geen Gray, and we're seeing her sister
Speaker 6: alive and all these kind of things, which is a
Speaker 6: comic book thing. Yeah, I'm really okay with the way
Speaker 6: that they're doing this. I was just so grateful that
Speaker 6: we see her at the end on a bus and
Speaker 6: we don't see her pulling up to Xavier's School for
Speaker 6: Gifted children.
Speaker 3: I was so angry. It's a ranger in the north
Speaker 3: find him. That's always what I think of is that
Speaker 3: fucking scene from the end of the Hobbit. That's always
Speaker 3: what I think of, because it's just unnecessary. We know
Speaker 3: where she's going approximately possibly who knows.
Speaker 6: Frankly, we didn't need Wolverine on a motorcycle pulling up
Speaker 6: next to her or something. It's really okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say, as someone who did know the
Speaker 3: Sadie sinc of it all pretty poorly kept secret, given
Speaker 3: that she's a redhead in the comics. If she's not
Speaker 3: Mary Jane, there are a several handful of famous Marvel redheads.
Speaker 3: And if you don't just disclose, I don't know, I
Speaker 3: feel like the fuck it was? Don't do this back
Speaker 3: and forth bullshit. I'm sick of this. We just you know, what,
Speaker 3: what does it have to do with the quality of
Speaker 3: the movie? Nothing? And what you benefit from one day's
Speaker 3: worth of people not knowing? I don't get it. Let's
Speaker 3: just stop, just stop with this secret casting nonsense. You
Speaker 3: get a lot more benefit out of surprising people at
Speaker 3: a con than you do when they're sitting down in
Speaker 3: the seats at the movie. Oh my god, a movie
Speaker 3: that's gonna have Jeen Gray and Spider Man in it.
Speaker 3: That sounds crazy. You could have gotten a lot out
Speaker 3: of that too. There's nothing to be said that people
Speaker 3: wouldn't be as excited, if not more excited, to go
Speaker 3: see this movie knowing that Jean Gray, an X Men
Speaker 3: character that we haven't seen in what ten plus years,
Speaker 3: is gonna be in another Marvel movie, which means we're
Speaker 3: gonna get more X Men. Now we have to hide it.
Speaker 3: Stop doing the con NOONI and singing stuff. Just stop.
Speaker 3: It's just it. We're in the Internet era. It doesn't
Speaker 3: work in professional wrestling. It doesn't work here.
Speaker 6: I'm so glad that I knew nothing about this, right right, it's.
Speaker 3: Just fucking annoying at this point. Unless you're intentionally avoiding it,
Speaker 3: which is what you do, it's almost damn near imp
Speaker 3: possible to not have it ruined. And so it's just
Speaker 3: assume that it's going to be ruined. Don't assume that
Speaker 3: everybody's gonna be able to shut themselves out to the world.
Speaker 3: There's an episode of the King of Queens where they're
Speaker 3: all trying to watch the Super Bowl and not have
Speaker 3: it spoiled for them ahead of time or something like that.
Speaker 3: It's like that. It's if you don't watch the movie
Speaker 3: after the first weekend. You can't complain if it's spoiled
Speaker 3: for you if there's something like this in it. So
Speaker 3: just don't have it be a spoiler. Just have it
Speaker 3: be part of the movie, because again I think unlike
Speaker 3: and I think that this goes into my criticism of
Speaker 3: a dead Pool Wolverine style movie where the whole movie
Speaker 3: is predicated on the fucking twist and there's no substance
Speaker 3: between any of it. This movie actually does a lot
Speaker 3: with the fact that Jean Gray is in the movie
Speaker 3: and Sadie Sink is really good in this movie. She's
Speaker 3: a great actress. Again, as someone who's watched a lot
Speaker 3: of Stranger Things, I can tell you that was like
Speaker 3: the thing most people know her from. And towards the
Speaker 3: latter half of the show, she's not really given much
Speaker 3: to do. But as someone who's seen her grow up
Speaker 3: as an actress from a preteen to now in her twenties,
Speaker 3: she's a great actress. She's a great dramatic actress. She
Speaker 3: gives the character of Jean Gray a lot of intensity
Speaker 3: that a character like that needs. Because if we're going
Speaker 3: in the direction that I think we are going with
Speaker 3: that character, which is a Dark Phoenix story or a
Speaker 3: Phoenix story, you need to have a character that can
Speaker 3: have a level of aggression that the MCU has not
Speaker 3: seen before. It's like Scarlet Witch on steroids.
Speaker 6: I hope to god they don't do another Dark Phoenix
Speaker 6: story because we've seen it so many times. I mean
Speaker 6: the whole thing of the alien tech and all that stuff.
Speaker 6: I mean again, we've seen the Dark Phoenix story told
Speaker 6: so many times. I don't go to comic book conventions
Speaker 6: very much at all. I think I've been to a
Speaker 6: couple in Toronto because I was invited to host some
Speaker 6: Q and a's that's what we met Mike, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: And I went to a MotorCity comic con down here
Speaker 6: maybe WI maybe just the one time. And I remember
Speaker 6: hanging out with my friend Mitch and we're going through
Speaker 6: comics and I'm just like, oh, look it's a Dark
Speaker 6: Phoenix story. Oh look it's another Dark Phoenix story. And
Speaker 6: I had some nerdling kind of go off on me,
Speaker 6: like they've only done that storyline twice, and I was like, no,
Speaker 6: I think you're very wrong. And I went out to
Speaker 6: a website that had a lot of different comic book covers,
Speaker 6: and I just found over and over again all of
Speaker 6: the Dark Phoenix storylines. There were probably twenty at least,
Speaker 6: and I'm like, kid, they've done this to death. And
Speaker 6: so even seeing it in the movies, that was such
Speaker 6: a major part of one of those first X Men.
Speaker 6: I think it was even part of one of that
Speaker 6: whole James McAvoy world of Men as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you might not go back talk about things.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna rewatch in preparation for doomsday. Those movies,
Speaker 3: you know what, I might just to remind myself how
Speaker 3: bad they are, because I will say, as someone who
Speaker 3: is a Michael Fossbender fan, he is really good as
Speaker 3: he is good in movies, which is to be fair,
Speaker 3: he's can I just call him white? Idris Elba? He
Speaker 3: seems to be in bad movies, but he's always good
Speaker 3: in them, which is Idris Elba's thing as well. He's
Speaker 3: in bad movies all the time. He's not the bad part.
Speaker 3: But I saw a dark Tower in theaters. I have
Speaker 3: a right to.
Speaker 6: Complain Assassin's creed, my friend.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there you go. It's interesting though, because again
Speaker 3: the X Men we've heard about for years now that
Speaker 3: they're going to come into the MCU. And what's funny is,
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways, they're just like Spider Man
Speaker 3: used to be. We heard over and over again that
Speaker 3: Spider Man was going to be in the MCU, because
Speaker 3: Spider Man didn't get introduced into the MCU until twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: which is eight years into the MCU. So the X
Speaker 3: Men are like the next it was the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 3: A Again, the Fantastic Four, I feel like are less
Speaker 3: of a big deal than the X Men, only because
Speaker 3: those Fantastic Four movies didn't have the legs that X
Speaker 3: Men did. I think those X Men movies were successful enough.
Speaker 3: They kept making the X Men movies because those movies
Speaker 3: were successful, not because just because they had the license
Speaker 3: like they did with Fantastic Four. X Men, I think
Speaker 3: are so evergreen that they knew they were going to
Speaker 3: be able to get a lot of mileage out of
Speaker 3: a Spider Man movie. So it was smart to put
Speaker 3: an X Men character in here. And I think it's
Speaker 3: also smart to put an X Men character that's not
Speaker 3: one of the ones that you would expect. It's not
Speaker 3: a Cyclops or a Wolverine like you said, or a
Speaker 3: Professor X, like Jean Gray, a character that, like you
Speaker 3: already said, Dark Phoenix is a story that they have
Speaker 3: done before. My contention is they haven't done it well.
Speaker 3: I don't need to see them do it again. But
Speaker 3: it does seem like we're trending in a aggression as
Speaker 3: being output by Jean Gray. We kind of see the
Speaker 3: way it affects Spider Man because Spider Man starts going Symbio,
Speaker 3: which I think is obviously there's a setup there in
Speaker 3: that as well. There's a setup for both of these characters,
Speaker 3: as it were, to become these darker versions of themselves.
Speaker 3: I don't need a Dark Phoenix thing, but I do
Speaker 3: think it's smart that we have a character that doesn't
Speaker 3: have a massive, built in iconic fan base the way
Speaker 3: a Cyclops or a Wolverine or a Magneto or Professor X.
Speaker 3: And I think beyond those four any character would have
Speaker 3: been fair game. That's why Deadpool used Colossus. That's the
Speaker 3: way I look at it. You can get mileage out
Speaker 3: of lesser X Men characters by it have them interacting
Speaker 3: with characters that are tonally very different from themselves.
Speaker 6: And what have we had so far? We've had Professor
Speaker 6: X show up in the Doctor Strange movie.
Speaker 3: I always forget about them.
Speaker 6: We have beasts show up in the Marvels.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one that they've never readdressed, And I
Speaker 3: guess technically they never readdressed the Professor X one either.
Speaker 6: And that was nice too because we had Blackpoll show up,
Speaker 6: which I think is probably gonna be one of the
Speaker 6: few times we ever see those guys.
Speaker 3: Who knows the Battle world. I don't know, I would
Speaker 3: assume so, But the same time, maybe they recast that
Speaker 3: character and have somebody else play them. And it's actually
Speaker 3: a critical part of the next part of the MCU.
Speaker 3: Who knows I would personally like to see the next
Speaker 3: part of the MCU have nothing to do with a
Speaker 3: lot of the characters we've already seen. Have some characters
Speaker 3: that allow us to be grounded in that world, but
Speaker 3: don't give us like, oh, new tone, he's dark, I
Speaker 3: don't who cares good. But give us a new Black
Speaker 3: Bolt or a new somebody else. I know they're gonna
Speaker 3: give us iron Man because it's I'm sure, But there's
Speaker 3: a lot of interesting room and places to go and
Speaker 3: having a gen Gray in this movie. If you had
Speaker 3: told me they're gonna have an X Men character in
Speaker 3: a Spider Man movie, obviously, I know where my brain
Speaker 3: goes immediately. It's Wolverine, because Wolverine was a big part
Speaker 3: of Ultimate Spider Man in the comic books. But if
Speaker 3: you're gonna have a character that can interact with a
Speaker 3: Spider Man who is searching for himself and at odds
Speaker 3: with himself, that's Gene Gray already as a character. So
Speaker 3: to have them on this parallel course in this movie
Speaker 3: where they intersect at the end with him and her
Speaker 3: in his mind and her interacting with Marissa Tome, that
Speaker 3: seems really good. That's what I mean by the emotional
Speaker 3: core of this movie is unlike any other MCU movie
Speaker 3: i've seen that, Like, it's not just a character dying,
Speaker 3: it's a character having an internal conversation with themselves about
Speaker 3: their place in the world and what that means for
Speaker 3: them as a person and as a superhero. And none
Speaker 3: of these movies have really had enough time or slowed
Speaker 3: down enough to do that genuinely. And that's a shame,
Speaker 3: because if you do it, you can actually do it
Speaker 3: pretty well. There is a lot of emotionality behind these
Speaker 3: characters in the comic books. People are invested in these
Speaker 3: characters not just because they beat the shit out of villains.
Speaker 3: It's because Spider Man is a teenager, and we were
Speaker 3: all a freak teenager at one point. Jean Gray is
Speaker 3: at odds with herself because we all have an internal
Speaker 3: struggle sometimes with the person we want to be in
Speaker 3: the person we are.
Speaker 5: Like.
Speaker 3: Those are things that they understand in the comics that
Speaker 3: the MCU has always had a joke for. There's not
Speaker 3: to cut away to a fucking joke in this movie, man,
Speaker 3: it's wild.
Speaker 6: I was so surprised that Hal Sparks was not the
Speaker 6: person in the elevator when he's wearing the girl's T
Speaker 6: shirt and pants. Wish I kind of was hoping that
Speaker 6: he would say, nice outfit.
Speaker 3: I wish that's the crossover we needed.
Speaker 6: Right, Where's hell Sparks when you need this guy? I'm
Speaker 6: amazed I can remember how Sparks's name. But I was
Speaker 6: a big Queerest Folk fan.
Speaker 3: I thought you were gonna say, you're a big fan
Speaker 3: of I love the seventies, I love the eighties. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, he.
Speaker 6: Money out of that. Do you know who I feel
Speaker 6: the worst for in this entire movie? Is poor Bruce
Speaker 6: Banner man, Oh my god, the way they're carting him
Speaker 6: off to the hospital and they're just like, yeah, he's
Speaker 6: gonna be in Bellevue now, And I'm like.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, folks, He'll get the help he needs. Like
Speaker 3: that episode of The Simpsons where they're carting Homer off
Speaker 3: and he's having the shit being out of him. He's
Speaker 3: gonna go somewhere that will help him. Yeah, fucking be like.
Speaker 6: Oh boy, I felt so bad. And that's one of
Speaker 6: the things that I think they bring up slightly and
Speaker 6: they don't necessarily mine it, maybe as much as they can,
Speaker 6: but I'm ambivalent about it. This whole idea of the
Speaker 6: power suppression, the stuff that this is.
Speaker 3: It all right, this is the mutant of it all,
Speaker 3: because now Bruce Banner is a mutant too. Technically I
Speaker 3: guess he always was.
Speaker 6: But yeah, ish, but this whole thing of being able
Speaker 6: to repress somebody's power. So we saw that in Deadpool
Speaker 6: two with those collars and the way that Deadpool was
Speaker 6: back to being riddled with cancer because his powers were
Speaker 6: turned off. We get a little bit of that there,
Speaker 6: but here I'm glad the ball of Oar Trask is
Speaker 6: in this one. I have to say one of the
Speaker 6: scenes that really worked the best for me was when
Speaker 6: Spider Man is having his problems and he's trying to
Speaker 6: use that power inhibitor on himself and he falls and
Speaker 6: there's this big explosion of webs. The one guy comes
Speaker 6: up to him and starts talking to him, and I'm
Speaker 6: just like, who the hell is this And then I realized, oh,
Speaker 6: he's possessed that scene. That guy who plays that possessed
Speaker 6: person though, he did a wonderful job. And then I
Speaker 6: really like how Jeane is bouncing from person to person
Speaker 6: not necessarily where they fly forward and they have her
Speaker 6: spirit entering them. I'm talking about when the people on
Speaker 6: the street start all using her voice. I thought that
Speaker 6: was really good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very Elias Cotias of her very yes, is
Speaker 3: it that movie at the Fallen but Fallen? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Is on my side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was waiting for her to start saying it. Man,
Speaker 3: That's what it felt like, because it's like the people
Speaker 3: like do that like reaction thing and they're like, hello,
Speaker 3: Spider Man. It works really well and I think it's
Speaker 3: a fun power that we have not seen in the MCU.
Speaker 3: And how do you counter that power. Oh you don't,
Speaker 3: I guess if you're Spider Man. It's like a solidarity
Speaker 3: of the mind that the strong minded are able to
Speaker 3: keep Jean Gray at bay. But if you are weak
Speaker 3: mind and of weak will, like and look you see
Speaker 3: the hand right, they are supposed to be these like
Speaker 3: Japanese assassins that are of steely mind and steel willed,
Speaker 3: and like here they are being taken over by Jean Gray.
Speaker 3: Her powers are again she took over the Hulk, so
Speaker 3: you know, it's one person at the beginning, and then
Speaker 3: it becomes like whole groups of people by the end
Speaker 3: of the movie. So her power is just being amplified
Speaker 3: more and more. She is a terrifying character.
Speaker 6: Well and literally at this point in the movie when
Speaker 6: she's using that guy and when Spider Man starts to
Speaker 6: look at his own apartment and see her and see
Speaker 6: this guy using her voice, I still don't know who
Speaker 6: it is. So I wish that you had that experience
Speaker 6: that I had where I did not know that Jean
Speaker 6: Gray was in this movie, so I just kept wondering,
Speaker 6: who is this person who is controlling all of this stuff.
Speaker 6: It worked wonderfully, even when he sees her in the
Speaker 6: car and takes that picture of her. I still don't
Speaker 6: know who that is. I'm just like, who is this girl?
Speaker 6: Who could this be? I honestly did not know for
Speaker 6: quite a while afterwards who that was. So I thought
Speaker 6: that It's one of those where I always go back to,
Speaker 6: because I'm old. I always go back to, what if
Speaker 6: people didn't know that Arnold Schwarzenegger was a good guy
Speaker 6: and terminator too? And Arnold Schwarzenegger shows up in this
Speaker 6: movie with that box of roses and that shotgun inside
Speaker 6: of it, and you think he's there to kill Sarah Connor.
Speaker 6: Maybe this cop is here to protect Sarah Connor because
Speaker 6: we don't know anything. And when he pulls out that
Speaker 6: shotgun and turns to Eddie Furlong and says, come with
Speaker 6: me if you want to live, that would have been
Speaker 6: a bring the house down reveal. But every fucking body
Speaker 6: that saw that movie knew what was going to happen.
Speaker 3: Were you seemingly the only person who win the reveal
Speaker 3: in this movie happened? Did you react? Did anyone else
Speaker 3: in the theater react?
Speaker 6: Andrea reacted because she also didn't know, because she doesn't
Speaker 6: give a shit, So.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, what's that like, I wish that could be
Speaker 3: that person. Yeah, it doesn't fucking matter. You're fucking right,
Speaker 3: more or less broadly, it doesn't matter, but I care.
Speaker 6: God, tamnit, I don't even know, to be honest, if
Speaker 6: she knows who Jean Gray is. If I said, oh,
Speaker 6: that's that was the one that Famka Janssen played, and
Speaker 6: whoever that chick from the Game of Thrones, that what
Speaker 6: played the second.
Speaker 3: Jean Gray, Sansus Stark, Jesus Christ Sophie.
Speaker 6: Turner, had I said that, Oh.
Speaker 3: Boy, I can't wait to rewatch those movies.
Speaker 6: Mike had I said that she might have been like, oh, okay,
Speaker 6: that's the same character. That's the one who died in
Speaker 6: the First Avengers or Second Avengers, whatever that one was.
Speaker 6: I think it was the first. Wasn't that who Jean
Speaker 6: Gray died in the first one?
Speaker 3: So she died in the second?
Speaker 6: Does she die in the second one?
Speaker 3: Okay, she's the one that's the flood that's coming from
Speaker 3: the damn Yeah, that's the second one, because the third
Speaker 3: one is where she to use your parlance, where she
Speaker 3: gangs Professor X. Remember how exciting that movie was. We're
Speaker 3: on the Precipice here, right, and you mentioned already like
Speaker 3: the hulk of it all, and I hope to god
Speaker 3: the whole gets like a better movie after battle World happens,
Speaker 3: because they've essentially said, like there's no more Marvel movies
Speaker 3: until like battle World, Like we get like this and
Speaker 3: like Doomsday, and then there's like scant Marvel movies and
Speaker 3: battle World happens. Then I think other things are happening,
Speaker 3: like the four or fives or whatever, if there are any.
Speaker 6: Why do you keep saying battle World?
Speaker 3: By the way, that's the sequel to do this thing,
Speaker 3: sequel to Avengers Doomsday. It's not gonna be called battle World,
Speaker 3: but it's not even called Secret Wars. But battle World
Speaker 3: is the thing that is going to happen at the
Speaker 3: end of Doomsday, where like all the planets are mashed
Speaker 3: together into one big planet. They've ruined so much of
Speaker 3: this ahead of time because they're doing these stories because
Speaker 3: they have to reboot even though they don't have to
Speaker 3: reboot everything. This is how you don't reboot everything. Imagine
Speaker 3: if Doomsday wasn't happening and this was just the next
Speaker 3: thing is they're introducing X Men, and that's it. I
Speaker 3: would have been so much more excited because I just
Speaker 3: I have such a real aversion to the Avenger movies
Speaker 3: after Endgame, because Endgame was like maybe the last good
Speaker 3: thing that they've really done in an Avengers context. Everything else,
Speaker 3: all these sideways Avengers movies are halfway. Avengers movies have
Speaker 3: not been Gray.
Speaker 6: No, I can agree. There's been so many, And it
Speaker 6: was kind of surprising to see that some of the
Speaker 6: screenwriters on this also worked on Quantumania, but I think
Speaker 6: more importantly they worked on all of these other Spider
Speaker 6: Man films, which it's amazing when you have I almost
Speaker 6: said Mary Jane, When you have MJ on the roof
Speaker 6: and she's recounting like, oh yeah, night Monkey and the
Speaker 6: thing at the Washington Monument and all this kind of stuff,
Speaker 6: was is interesting that later on you think about and
Speaker 6: you're like, oh, that's Gene Gray, my all of those memories,
Speaker 6: because I didn't realize that that was Geane Gray for
Speaker 6: the longest time, So like later on, I was like,
Speaker 6: oh shit, she was. She got there before Spider Man
Speaker 6: even got to MJ's apartment, right that whole thing. I
Speaker 6: thought she was trapped in the helicopter with the helicopter pilot,
Speaker 6: and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, she can't jump anywhere,
Speaker 6: and not realizing that she can do that whenever she
Speaker 6: wants and to whoever it is, as long as they're
Speaker 6: within thirty three feet and then she could just make
Speaker 6: all those jumps. I really like that they make these references.
Speaker 6: I really like that Ned and MJ are such a
Speaker 6: massive part of this movie. The moment for me that
Speaker 6: touched me the most is when they It was two
Speaker 6: scenes one of Ned and Spider hanging out and just
Speaker 6: being friends again, and just the way that Spider Man
Speaker 6: is so happy to have friends one more time.
Speaker 3: Such a smart way to use it. He made the
Speaker 3: Spider Man app so if Spider Man shows up, he
Speaker 3: will just lose his mind and there's your end, spider Man.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But then the handshake at the end, I fucking love that.
Speaker 6: Oh I got chills during that.
Speaker 3: It's such an earned moment, and that Peter Jesus, no,
Speaker 3: I'm with you. That's what I mean. The best parts
Speaker 3: of this movie are the emotional moments between the characters.
Speaker 3: It's not the big action scenes. The action scenes are great,
Speaker 3: but it's an MCU movie. In twenty twenty, six. I
Speaker 3: don't expect the action scenes to be bad. They have
Speaker 3: always been pretty up to par. The thing that's nice
Speaker 3: about this movie is there's an eye for the comic books.
Speaker 3: We get those panel shots essentially where Spider Man is
Speaker 3: like recreating panels from the comic or covers from the comic.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, the famous first cover with that criminal that
Speaker 6: he's holding. That's so good.
Speaker 3: They do all of these things that make me understand
Speaker 3: that the people that are writing these Spider Man movies
Speaker 3: are fans of Spider Man, not just in a surface
Speaker 3: level way, they actually understand the character, because this feels
Speaker 3: like a Spider Man comic book in movie form. And
Speaker 3: that's because Spider Man is an emotionally driven character. It
Speaker 3: is about his relationships with MJ and Aunt May and obviously,
Speaker 3: I mean, we've never seen it in these movies, but
Speaker 3: you know, Harry Osborne that we get ned as his
Speaker 3: best friend in this movie, or you know again, we
Speaker 3: saw him with Tony Stark in the other movies as
Speaker 3: kind of the the stand in for Uncle Ben in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, but this is the first one
Speaker 3: where I genuinely feel like Spider Man is an emotionally
Speaker 3: grounded and real character, and it took three movies to
Speaker 3: get to this point, and they've kind of snowballed to
Speaker 3: this point because he's Tom Holland is so good. Yes,
Speaker 3: I think he's the best Spider Man like at this point,
Speaker 3: like and I think that this movie cements it. He
Speaker 3: went four for four. None of the movies struggle because
Speaker 3: of him at all. Like he's end z and Daya
Speaker 3: also fantastic. Not an actress I've seen in a lot
Speaker 3: of things up to this point. I've seen her in
Speaker 3: several things, but I saw her in the drama earlier
Speaker 3: this year. She was also great in that. But Tom
Speaker 3: Holland and her and Jacob Battelon, the guy who plays Net,
Speaker 3: are so good together. Yes, just the chemistry that they have.
Speaker 3: They feel like friends because I think they are friends
Speaker 3: in real life. And obviously Tom Holland in is and
Speaker 3: I are married, so you know also that. But Tom
Speaker 3: Holland is able to really be charismatic with anybody he's
Speaker 3: on screen with, and that Spider Man. Spider Man is
Speaker 3: pg Deadpool in a lot of ways. He's not as
Speaker 3: met as Deadpool, but he is cracking jokes and he
Speaker 3: is stretching at one point, he's like, I'm not a
Speaker 3: teenager anymore. Great, this is what I want from Spider Man.
Speaker 3: They're nailing it. Toby Maguire got that, Andrew Garfield got
Speaker 3: that too, but this just this feels so much more
Speaker 3: earned because I really empathize with the character underneath the
Speaker 3: mask more than I ever have before.
Speaker 6: I completely agree. Yeah, when he I can't even remember
Speaker 6: what the one liner is when he pulls the piano
Speaker 6: at Scorpion, it's.
Speaker 3: Just hit us out on a high note.
Speaker 6: Yes, that's There are so many good things and yeah,
Speaker 6: the whole stretching thing. I was like, this is really good.
Speaker 6: I like this, this is great. And that's what I
Speaker 6: loved about Spider Man was what a smart ass he
Speaker 6: was when he put on the suit. When he's Peter Parker,
Speaker 6: he's steering, endearing, he's kind of quiet, kind of shy,
Speaker 6: but then when he puts on that mask, he just
Speaker 6: it's balls out. And he's been that way for forever.
Speaker 6: And that's the thing when you get good writing, and
Speaker 6: you get him being able to make those quips, even
Speaker 6: just the stuff of him arguing with Frank Castle and
Speaker 6: that whole thing of you know, I saved.
Speaker 3: You anything, I'm not good at him at all.
Speaker 6: For the most part, I really liked him in this,
Speaker 6: and like I said, it almost makes me want to
Speaker 6: go back and watch The Punisher. Not quite, but.
Speaker 3: You got made two thirds of the way there. Maybe
Speaker 3: I don't even think you're half This movie I think
Speaker 3: is the best he's been The Punisher.
Speaker 6: I liked him in the movies, both of them, and
Speaker 6: I'm trying to remember. I think he was in that
Speaker 6: one with Oh gosh, who's the guy that played Frederick Mercury,
Speaker 6: Rammy Malik, Rammy Malik The Amateur He I think he
Speaker 6: was in that as well, and he was really good
Speaker 6: in The Amateur. So yeah, I like him as a
Speaker 6: supporting character. I don't know if I like him as
Speaker 6: the main lead of stuff, but maybe when these days
Speaker 6: I'll give it a shot.
Speaker 3: Well, and we have the issue with a Punisher style
Speaker 3: character where he is an R rated character, so they
Speaker 3: can also, I think make that work. We've seen now
Speaker 3: that you can have Deadpool in these movies, you could.
Speaker 3: I think Punisher shows that's a thing that you could
Speaker 3: get away with if you have the right people writing
Speaker 3: it and the right people directing it. Again, those are
Speaker 3: big ifs, but I think they can be done because
Speaker 3: that was again a thing that we know. There's a
Speaker 3: possibility that Deadpool is part of the MCU. Know I
Speaker 3: think he obviously will be. But The Punisher, I think
Speaker 3: is a good test case to see you can have
Speaker 3: a character that uses guns and kills people in the
Speaker 3: things that he is doing, being a rejected by the
Speaker 3: superhero broadly because Spider Man's like, you can't just go
Speaker 3: around killing people. It's like, I'm gonna do whatever the
Speaker 3: hell I want. Okay, they can be at odds with
Speaker 3: each other, put work together, and I like that this
Speaker 3: movie shows that because I think the MCU has been
Speaker 3: too narrow in a lot of what it's been doing,
Speaker 3: and I think that this movie shows you can actually
Speaker 3: tell a smaller story that has bigger implications on the
Speaker 3: grand or MCU without the entire city of New York
Speaker 3: or the world being under threat. Yes, the entire world
Speaker 3: is technically under threat, but not really. I don't know,
Speaker 3: yes and no, and yes. I think that's what's interesting.
Speaker 3: This movie threads that needle very well because it does
Speaker 3: feel like a grand threat, but it feels like much
Speaker 3: smaller scale. Even in the climax of the movie with
Speaker 3: Jean Gray. It's not a giant blue light pointing to
Speaker 3: the sky, you know what I mean, But it is
Speaker 3: at the same time, though it does have the implication
Speaker 3: of that being the case.
Speaker 6: It's gonna be a lot easier to clean up. I
Speaker 6: think we're not gonna need damage to controlled to come in,
Speaker 6: even though there were some car wrecks, but it's not
Speaker 6: going to be as big of a deal as the
Speaker 6: big blue skylazer and the Chitari showing up again. I
Speaker 6: was glad that we have that little joke of the
Speaker 6: Punisher about to swear and Spidey shoots the web over
Speaker 6: his mouth. That's a very comic book to me. I
Speaker 6: also like that it's the Punisher that is the one
Speaker 6: that ends up breaking the spell but also fucking it
Speaker 6: up and shooting Spider Man at the end. It's like
Speaker 6: guns aren't always the answer, but they aren't. Just the
Speaker 6: way that he manages to have Jean stop with that moment,
Speaker 6: the way that Spider Man saves her and sacrifices himself,
Speaker 6: and I really like that stupid moment where the Punisher
Speaker 6: puts on Spidey's mask and is dancing around like an
Speaker 6: idiot up in the hospital room and Spider Man gets
Speaker 6: to go out amongst the people as Peter Parker and
Speaker 6: see the love that he gets, which up until this point,
Speaker 6: all of these Spider Man movies, I don't I know
Speaker 6: we had Spider Man Day and one of the I
Speaker 6: think it was the first Spider Man film. I don't
Speaker 6: think it was in the third one, but you know,
Speaker 6: we've seen some celebrations, but this to see all of
Speaker 6: those people pulling for him, and him amongst the crowd,
Speaker 6: that little kid that makes eye contact with him and
Speaker 6: does the web shooter fingers, it all just hit perfect
Speaker 6: for me.
Speaker 3: I agree. I think that getting a genuine emotional moment
Speaker 3: out of the Punisher, one of the more gruff characters
Speaker 3: in the MCU, is really smart because you pair him
Speaker 3: opposite Tom Holland as Spider Man. And you know what,
Speaker 3: I think there's always been this question, who is the
Speaker 3: analogue in Marvel for Superman in the DC universe. I
Speaker 3: would make the argument at Spider Man, we have a
Speaker 3: character who when he's not superpowered, is just trying to
Speaker 3: live a normal life, which both Clark Kent and Peter
Speaker 3: Parker are trying to do. And then when they are
Speaker 3: their superpowered versions of themselves, they are adored by the
Speaker 3: city that they live in. And obviously Superman the whole
Speaker 3: world in a lot of those comics where he's saving
Speaker 3: the world, but in the comic book of Spider Man,
Speaker 3: he's friendly, neighborhood Spider Man. He's adored by the city.
Speaker 3: They give him the key to the city. I love that,
Speaker 3: and I think that this movie cements Spider Man as
Speaker 3: that character in terms of the ability to bridge the
Speaker 3: gap between what the MCU was and what the MCU
Speaker 3: I hope is moving forward, which is character stories about
Speaker 3: characters that actually have some emotional resonance to him. We
Speaker 3: saw it with Thunderbolts. There was a whole the whole
Speaker 3: climax of that movie took place inside of a character's mind.
Speaker 3: We saw it a little bit in The Fantastic Four.
Speaker 3: The whole movie is about four people learning to be
Speaker 3: a family together. And what does that mean. I think
Speaker 3: we might actually be trending in a direction with the
Speaker 3: MCU that is hopeful in terms of maybe not just
Speaker 3: being Joss Wheden quip equips. Let's make a joke and
Speaker 3: then the quip. Afterwards, we watch Supergirl I watched Superman
Speaker 3: last year. Superman was good. I don't know if James
Speaker 3: Gunn can do another movie like that anymore, where it's
Speaker 3: like emotional moment and then equip people are actually ready
Speaker 3: to have an emotional moment with these characters. Stop undercutting them.
Speaker 3: And this movie doesn't undercut them. Like you said at
Speaker 3: the end of the movie, there's not some quip when
Speaker 3: Spider Man looks at that kid in the audience. It
Speaker 3: is an earned moment, like the MCU has not gotten
Speaker 3: in a really long time. And I want them to
Speaker 3: continue that because with Doomsday, they have an opportunity with
Speaker 3: Doomsday as a character to pull a fanos and give
Speaker 3: us a villain to actually maybe not root for, but
Speaker 3: understand his motivations in a way that don't just make
Speaker 3: him be a mustache twirling villain. And my hope is
Speaker 3: with Doomsday is they are able to do that because
Speaker 3: Robert Downey Junior is that good of an actor. He's
Speaker 3: been able to do that before, and all of the
Speaker 3: actors in these movies are great actors in their own right.
Speaker 3: Tom Holland is a great actor. You can't bring this
Speaker 3: level of emotionality in charisma, and I think vulnerability to
Speaker 3: a character if you're not a great actor, and he is.
Speaker 6: It's interesting with that third Guardians of the Galaxy movie,
Speaker 6: so much of that is the whole idea of the
Speaker 6: Gomorrah in that not being the Gomorrah the Peter new
Speaker 6: and trying to re spark that whole thing. It's a
Speaker 6: little similar here with this Mary Jane, even though she
Speaker 6: is the same Mary Jane. But what I wanted to
Speaker 6: say was when Peter sees Doctor Doom without his mask,
Speaker 6: he's going to lose his fucking mind.
Speaker 3: They all are, but especially Peter. I think that's why
Speaker 3: essentially the they I don't think they said tom Alin
Speaker 3: is going to be in Doom's day.
Speaker 6: So that's the thing that I almost said to my
Speaker 6: wife yesterday. But again, she's so far out of the
Speaker 6: loop that she doesn't know about Robert Downey Junior coming back.
Speaker 6: So that's going to be her surprise when we go
Speaker 6: to see Doomsday. She's not going to know until the
Speaker 6: mask comes off, and then she's going to be like,
Speaker 6: what the fuck?
Speaker 3: So she doesn't know that Robert okay now, and I
Speaker 3: wonder how many people don't at this point, because I
Speaker 3: know some people were okay, which is it's.
Speaker 6: Really weird to me that people don't know. But yeah,
Speaker 6: I was talking with one of my coworkers and they
Speaker 6: were surprised that Doctor Doom showed up at the end
Speaker 6: of the Fantastic Four and then when I said, oh yeah,
Speaker 6: Robert Downey Junior, They're just like, what what are you
Speaker 6: talking about? And I was like, oh shit, I just
Speaker 6: ruined it for somebody. But I was like, this was
Speaker 6: after the press conference, this was after the empty chairs,
Speaker 6: this is all of the stuff that was leading up
Speaker 6: to this. I was like, okay, I was really surprised,
Speaker 6: and I think we talked about this on the Fantastic
Speaker 6: four episode. I was surprised that they're there wasn't a
Speaker 6: one quarter face turned, so we've got to see a
Speaker 6: little bit of our DJ's face that could have been
Speaker 6: anybody in that cloak. But I'm glad now that there
Speaker 6: might be people that don't know who that is, and
Speaker 6: maybe they will be surprised though. We've got, however, many
Speaker 6: months before the movie comes out, and they're going to
Speaker 6: be just touting that like fucking crazy. It's going to
Speaker 6: be our DJ all over the place from now on.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that will be the case, because
Speaker 3: I guess it's hope ceiling that they are not going
Speaker 3: to do that because the moment in the movie where
Speaker 3: that happens, I think, like you've already alluded to, is
Speaker 3: going to be a moment that needs to be seen
Speaker 3: in the movie, and they won't spoil it in the trailers.
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be like the Jean Gray thing,
Speaker 3: They're just not and I joked about like the doomsday
Speaker 3: trailer already, like it kind of looks the Doomsday trailer
Speaker 3: has no substance to it. It is all just it's just
Speaker 3: a bunch of shots with no context. My assumption is
Speaker 3: that's intention I know it's intentional, obviously, but I'm assuming
Speaker 3: that the intentionality behind it is because so much of
Speaker 3: the movie is going to be things that you have
Speaker 3: to see in the movie because otherwise it's a massive
Speaker 3: goddamn spoiler and things that I'm not even going to
Speaker 3: talk about here because I know you don't watch any
Speaker 3: of that stuff or keep up with any of that stuff,
Speaker 3: so I don't even want to possibly ruin it for
Speaker 3: you or anybody else, but to say that the things
Speaker 3: that have been talked about that have been confirmed just
Speaker 3: by the comic con of it all, with like certain
Speaker 3: actors being on stage, but other actors haven't been on stage,
Speaker 3: and like who knows who is going to be in
Speaker 3: that movie that they haven't said, And I think that's
Speaker 3: why so much of the movie has not really been
Speaker 3: shown in the trailers. And my hope is they don't
Speaker 3: show RDJ as Doomsday or as Doom until the movie.
Speaker 3: I hope that we don't get that until maybe the
Speaker 3: week after, because they always do like a spoiler trailer
Speaker 3: right before the movie comes out. I hope that we
Speaker 3: don't see a single shot of him AND's mask until
Speaker 3: a week before the movie comes out, or if not,
Speaker 3: after the movie's come out, genuinely because there's no point.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: I really hope that as well, because yeah, they just
Speaker 6: seems bound and determined to ruin all of this stuff
Speaker 6: for everybody. I'm like, no, just let things be surprises, please.
Speaker 3: Doctor Pearl Mutter says it best, like it's a study.
Speaker 3: It's factually known that American audiences don't want to feel dumb,
Speaker 3: which is why movie trailer houses do that. They don't
Speaker 3: want to feel like they don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3: In the movie, So the trailers are just spoiling things
Speaker 3: ahead of time. And for the rest of us that
Speaker 3: don't care about feeling dumb when you go into a movie,
Speaker 3: it then forces us to not watch trailers for things,
Speaker 3: because the trailer will show the entire movie. And if
Speaker 3: you're a discerning moviegoer, i e. Someone who goes to
Speaker 3: a couple movies a year, you can pick up on
Speaker 3: the entire plot of a movie just by watching trailers
Speaker 3: at this point, genuinely, like entire acts of the movie
Speaker 3: are segmented in the trailer at this point, and it's
Speaker 3: just it ruins things, It really does.
Speaker 6: So does. I just saw an article or listical the
Speaker 6: other day where I was talking about the biggest reveals
Speaker 6: in movies over the last I don't know, however many
Speaker 6: twenty years or whatever, and one of those was Shutter Island,
Speaker 6: and I was just like, bit China from the trailer,
Speaker 6: what was going on with that thing? I didn't need
Speaker 6: to see that movie?
Speaker 3: And it was a dream?
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was all him going crazy.
Speaker 3: And I like the idea that it wasn't all a dream,
Speaker 3: but that makes the movie somewhat more tolerable than it
Speaker 3: actually is. Oh, I wonder if anyone's gonna have a
Speaker 3: hot take on that one. He doesn't like Shutter Island.
Speaker 3: Where's all your Shutter Island fans going to bat for
Speaker 3: that movie? People going to bath for Supergirl. Talk about
Speaker 3: a distinction between two movies starting with an s released
Speaker 3: within a month of each other. My god, this movie
Speaker 3: has made almost a billion dollars already. People will show
Speaker 3: up for your movie. It has nothing to do with
Speaker 3: the fact that a woman is in it. I promise,
Speaker 3: I promise. It's not a well made movie. People showed
Speaker 3: up for Superman last year. That movie made a boatload.
Speaker 3: This movie's made nine hundred million dollars. This Spider Man
Speaker 3: movie is If you put a good movie on screen,
Speaker 3: the audiences will show up. And this movie probably won't
Speaker 3: have a thirty to forty or fifty percent drop off
Speaker 3: next weekend either. It will probably have maybe a surge
Speaker 3: even there might be people who want to go see
Speaker 3: this again. I don't know. This is a really good
Speaker 3: movie that I think will resonate with a lot of people,
Speaker 3: especially people that are big fans of Spider Man, which
Speaker 3: is most everybody who's into these kinds of movies. Spider
Speaker 3: Man really is the character that crosses all boundaries. He's
Speaker 3: very bipartisan. I think people that like DC like Spider Man,
Speaker 3: like how could you not?
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I'll tell you racially, it was very even
Speaker 6: in the theater yesterday, if not more black people than
Speaker 6: white people, which I was just like, Oh, that's cool that.
Speaker 6: I'm just very glad. I was surprised at how many
Speaker 6: kids were in the theater. I don't really think that
Speaker 6: this was a kid's movie, and is.
Speaker 3: A kid's character those I mean, he's like kids. He is,
Speaker 3: And ask for any little kid who's your very superhero,
Speaker 3: they're probably gonna Spider Man.
Speaker 6: I was surprised at how many people were wearing their
Speaker 6: spider gear, not costumes, but like all the T shirts
Speaker 6: and stuff. It was really nice to see that, and
Speaker 6: it was nice that it was a pretty respectful audience.
Speaker 6: Everybody seemed to be into it. There's only one time
Speaker 6: I had to yell at somebody for use in their phone.
Speaker 6: But yeah, it was a good theatrical experience. I think
Speaker 6: it was made even better by me coming in late
Speaker 6: and missing all the pre show, missing the MJR. Theme.
Speaker 6: That's our theater around here that we go to is mjr.
Speaker 6: And they play this trailer up front. It's not as
Speaker 6: bad as the Nicole Kidman trailer, but it's been going
Speaker 6: since the Pandemic, and so that's six years. I've been
Speaker 6: seeing them take away a year for the Pandemic, but
Speaker 6: that's five years. I've been seeing this little trailer before
Speaker 6: the movie. Every time they send me a survey after
Speaker 6: a movie plays, I just go on and on about
Speaker 6: how they need a new pre show, but they have
Speaker 6: it to listen to me. I went through and purposefully
Speaker 6: tried to find bad reviews of this film just to
Speaker 6: see what people are critiquing criticizing about this. Seems like
Speaker 6: people don't like how angsty Spider Man is. I find
Speaker 6: it to be actually a good thing, especially that he's
Speaker 6: having a real crisis of faith and having the being
Speaker 6: alone in this new world. I figure, if there's any
Speaker 6: time for him to be angsty, it's right now. The
Speaker 6: other thing was something that we've talked about is a
Speaker 6: good thing, which is the whole idea of him interacting
Speaker 6: with other superheroes. I don't feel that they do it
Speaker 6: too much.
Speaker 3: I guess the consensus amongst some of the online cogniscendai
Speaker 3: is that there's too much of other characters in this movie,
Speaker 3: But to what extent You've ever read the comics and
Speaker 3: it's all self contained and he doesn't interact with other
Speaker 3: people or other superheroes in the comics. As long as
Speaker 3: the character can be drawn and is within the scope
Speaker 3: and license of the publisher, they can put Hulk in
Speaker 3: Spider Man comics. Advice versus. The only reason it's hard
Speaker 3: to do it in the movie is for a whole
Speaker 3: host of reasons scheduling getting the actor there, unless you're
Speaker 3: just doing abomination. And I don't mean the look of it,
Speaker 3: but tim Roth thing where it's just, oh look, it's
Speaker 3: just abomination. Remember when tim Roth played that character, and
Speaker 3: then obviously they did it again because he wasn't in
Speaker 3: Shang Chi. Tim Roth wasn't abomination was but tim Roth
Speaker 3: ended up being in that Sheeholk show. So you can
Speaker 3: do that in the movies of a certain kind, but
Speaker 3: it's so much harder than it is in the comics.
Speaker 3: So whenever people have said anything about that, my response,
Speaker 3: especially with the character like Spider Man, is have you
Speaker 3: ever read a Spider Man comic before? Other characters show
Speaker 3: up all the time, all the time exactly.
Speaker 6: And that's what got me into a lot of different
Speaker 6: comics was going back to Secret War the very first one.
Speaker 6: And I didn't even know for a long time that
Speaker 6: they had done other Secret War storylines, because for me,
Speaker 6: it was a one and done. It was a bringing
Speaker 6: together of all of these different heroes and villains because
Speaker 6: there were all the villains there, and it was a
Speaker 6: way for me to experience other characters that I wasn't
Speaker 6: that familiar with. But the thing that really got me
Speaker 6: was reading the panels and seeing the little asterisk next
Speaker 6: to something and then down below it says see Daredevil
Speaker 6: twenty five or see Fantastic four, two fifty two, any
Speaker 6: of those type of things where you're like, we're getting
Speaker 6: any marketing, baby, exactly. And this is before Like at
Speaker 6: that point when I was reading comics, I think there
Speaker 6: were three Spider Man comics. There was Amazing, Spectacular, and
Speaker 6: then maybe web of and I think one of those
Speaker 6: was just all repeat to his old issues that they
Speaker 6: were re releasing. Basically, I think that might have been
Speaker 6: web But then you would get spectacular and amazing and
Speaker 6: those stories would go back and forth, which I wasn't
Speaker 6: actually a fan of.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 6: I just want to choice as much Spider Man. I
Speaker 6: don't need the same story, just stretched out a little
Speaker 6: bit more. That changed when it was like the Hobgoblin
Speaker 6: and everybody who's trying to figure out who the Hobgoblin was.
Speaker 6: But now it's impossible because you've got so many things,
Speaker 6: and they're constantly going across so many comic books, and
Speaker 6: it's just like I can't afford to buy every single
Speaker 6: one of these books. Especially I was buying comic books
Speaker 6: when they were sixty cents, seventy five cents. Once I
Speaker 6: got up to a dollar, which I know is cheap
Speaker 6: now for a comic book, I was out.
Speaker 3: I don't even know where you can get a comic
Speaker 3: book for a dollar maybe other than half rice books
Speaker 3: right like the bargain bin or a garage sale. New
Speaker 3: comic books are like five to six books. I will
Speaker 3: tell you. If you want to read comic books the
Speaker 3: way I do it, get the Marvel app on your
Speaker 3: phone or iPad or I guess maybe it's on browser
Speaker 3: and you could just it's like Netflix for comic books.
Speaker 3: You just read it as much as you like and
Speaker 3: there's not any cap on it. It's ten fifteen dollars
Speaker 3: a Month's probably more expensive than it used to be,
Speaker 3: like most things, but I don't think this movie leans
Speaker 3: too heavily on the crossover of it all. I think,
Speaker 3: for me, look, X Men is the ultimate crossover movie
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. Then the characters are all
Speaker 3: their own characters in their own right, and anytime they
Speaker 3: come together for an X Men movie, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a massive team up movie because a lot
Speaker 3: of these characters could be their own thing. This is
Speaker 3: the first time Jean Gray has been in a movie
Speaker 3: without the other X Men. I'd like to point out
Speaker 3: this is it's such a wild way to use Jean
Speaker 3: Gray because she feels so novel and interesting, and hopefully
Speaker 3: that's one of the expectations from Kevin Figy with the
Speaker 3: new X Men is this needs to feel different. It
Speaker 3: can't just be Professor x a Magneto there at the
Speaker 3: school together. Nobody wants to see that again. Give us
Speaker 3: something else, do something else with it, and I think
Speaker 3: this is that step in that right direction. I don't
Speaker 3: if you want to complain about that. Jean Gray being
Speaker 3: in this movie cool, but it just seems like a
Speaker 3: non issue. Maybe take Black widow out of this movie.
Speaker 3: But I like that we get to see Florence Pugh
Speaker 3: and Tom holland Cheri scene together. So shut up, Jesus,
Speaker 3: I'm the critical one here. Fuck fuck me the people
Speaker 3: being I don't like the fucking cry. Have you read
Speaker 3: a spider Man the Ultimate Spider Man video game? There
Speaker 3: were levels where you fought Hulk and Venom and Wolverine,
Speaker 3: and like, all these other characters are showing up. Chill
Speaker 3: the fuck out. If you've never read a Spider Man comic,
Speaker 3: go read a spider Man comic, because he does not
Speaker 3: exist in a vacuum. None of these characters do.
Speaker 6: Do you know what the best thing about a crossover is, Chris,
Speaker 6: is that you of the culture cast get to join
Speaker 6: me on the projection booth, or me of the Projection
Speaker 6: Booth gets to join you on the culture Cast, and
Speaker 6: you don't know which one you're listening to exactly.
Speaker 3: It's right, it's technically both. I don't have a lot
Speaker 3: of issues with this movie. I actually don't think a
Speaker 3: lot of other people do. This is probably going to
Speaker 3: be one of the best MCU movies that has ever
Speaker 3: come out, and I think you might agree, though it
Speaker 3: is a little recency bias. I think it's the best
Speaker 3: movie that's come out since Endgame. These movies can change
Speaker 3: and get better, and I think if the next MCU
Speaker 3: movie is three quarters as good as this movie is
Speaker 3: just seventy five percent of the way there, I think
Speaker 3: it will be one of the top ten MCU movies
Speaker 3: that's come out, because this movie really, I think sets
Speaker 3: the standard and the bar very high moving forward. And
Speaker 3: I also think Destined Daniel Cretin should be given a
Speaker 3: lot of credit here for how good this movie is.
Speaker 3: He is a great director. I think he is going
Speaker 3: to have an opportunity now to go do whatever the
Speaker 3: fuck he wants, given that this movie has made a
Speaker 3: boatload of money. But and guess what, He's not just
Speaker 3: another white director hired by the MCU. He is a
Speaker 3: Hawaiian who has made his name doing other things and
Speaker 3: then did Shang Chi and then five years later did
Speaker 3: this and Wonder Man, which they just canceled unfortunately. But
Speaker 3: I genuinely I know people like to say we drag
Speaker 3: a lot of movies, but maybe drag us for being
Speaker 3: too effusive this time. See how that feels.
Speaker 6: Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining me on
Speaker 6: this very special crossover. Do you want to tell the
Speaker 6: folks where they can hear us all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can hear us over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com,
Speaker 3: where our audio empire continues to band with such great
Speaker 3: shows as the upcoming Harrison Ford show. That's a crossover
Speaker 3: with my show, The Culture Cast. Mike showed the Projection
Speaker 3: Booth and Richard Adams show the Paranormal Bookshelf of Richard HadAM,
Speaker 3: which is not the name of the show. It's Richard
Speaker 3: Adams Paranormal Bookshelf. Boy, I guess I lost fifty cents
Speaker 3: and then made a dollar in that phrasing right there.
Speaker 3: I lost the money that he normally gives me. But
Speaker 3: to that crossover show is the founded weirding Way Media,
Speaker 3: along with Susan Lambert, Adam's eighties TV Ladies, Jamie Bennings, Filmentrees,
Speaker 3: Emily Intraravia is The Feminine Critique, and so many more,
Speaker 3: along with new shows coming out towards the end of
Speaker 3: this year. And yes, Mike and I will be covering
Speaker 3: Doomsday when that comes out, obviously, and that's the next
Speaker 3: MCU thing. Yeah, that's where you can hear us. As
Speaker 3: for other things my Patreon at Patreon dot com slash
Speaker 3: culture cast and Mike's Patreon Patreon dot com slash Projection
Speaker 3: with her where you can go to kick a couple
Speaker 3: dollars our way. If that Harrison Ford podcast sounds exciting
Speaker 3: to you, Win it launches here in a couple weeks.
Speaker 3: That's where you'll be able to hear it a month
Speaker 3: early ad free, So go do that if you're interested
Speaker 3: in that. And Richard Adams Patreon as well, Richard Adam,
Speaker 3: I guess Patreon dot com slash Richard Adam. So yeah,
Speaker 3: that's where you can go to find the three of us.
Speaker 3: And yeah, make sure to come back for the next
Speaker 3: episode of either of our shows. And definitely in December
Speaker 3: we talk about Doomsday.
Speaker 7: Spider Spider Man whatever a spider name sper Win sad
Speaker 7: that job did the Spider Man.
Speaker 3: Strong Disco ready to you know?
Speaker 7: Actually from a friend.
Speaker 3: Overhead. Spider Man a.
Speaker 5: Crime you right, the man in spider the man frand
Speaker 5: the neigh of the Spider Man will.
Speaker 7: As you when you come to fire.
Speaker 6: Have to see lever crime like the.
Speaker 7: Stream the busy Spider Man in Spider Man friend the
Speaker 7: name Spider Man, what action you want to he like it.
Speaker 3: When it's.
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