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Speaker 5: All right, let's get out to the hotline.
Speaker 4: Welcome in Brady Papinka former Bill a great Super Bowl champion,
to talk some Cougar football as well as PRODA numbers,
Beat Pop.
Speaker 2: How you living, hey Ben? Always fun to jump on
with you guys.
Speaker 4: Yes, indeed, Look you're in the human performance industry. That's
what you do. It's what you I mean, you're still
doing your own combines on occasion. So you know when
you're when you're evaluating you know these pro day numbers
and these these combine numbers, you know, how do you
approach it right as as a football player and what
role does the combine and PRODA play in draft slots
or even undrafted free agent opportunities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the first thing you look at is you
got to look at the players productivity and then from
there you either the way that the Pro Day numbers
fit into it, it either validates how they're productive, sometimes
it doesn't validate it, and then you kind of have
to look deeper as through how they were so successful
or the other side of the cone is guys that
maybe weren't as successful on the field as you would
expect based off of the numbers. You then dig a
little deeper and you come to find out other things.
You wonder if they're hurt, maybe it's a scheme fit,
maybe they're just doing the position. They just didn't get
their opportunity. But there are for surely numbers that are
hit in a Pro Day or in the combine that
will get you into camp, maybe even get you drafted.
If it's you know, at a position like Mamba is
one that's very interesting because of his speed and I
mean he did have that phenomenal big play against Utah.
If you guys remember when they're driving down I think
it was the first drive of the game, fly sweep
fourth and one and and Mamba was running with the
the fly sweep guy the whole way and blasted him
for loss and we got the ball back and it
was a huge play in the game. So you look
at that and you're like, oh, okay, well that makes sense.
You know, he has the ability to then use that
on the field. And then you look at him and
coverage and his size and his length. There's a lot
to work with there and physical attributes that are very
difficult to find, especially combination length, size and speed. So
that's it. That's kind of how it's looked at. It's
gonna be. It's not the end all be all, but
man for surely can't create more studying, more searching, more
intrigue about a player, And like I said, it can
lead that team to the point where like, ooh, this
guy is rare, we need to get him. Let's bring
him in. And then another end of the corin it
can be just a validator. It's like, yeah, that's what
we saw. We saw you know, Carson Ryant, he was
got get separation in his routes you know, or what
have you. And so uh and then you know, you
look at you know, other other positions where guys, maybe
you're not you know, you're you're looking at them like Tanner.
You know, you're looking at a guy that's covers the field,
sidelines to sideline, middle of the field. I mean the
guy played with middlefield safety is Nick Collins. He ran
a four three forty you know, and you kind of
made sense. You know, you got Tanner running the four
or five and you're like, ooh, how does he do that?
And then if it's just you know, intellect and reading
and understanding route combinations, that's also very telling because you're like, okay,
well that means that. Yeah, by the way, there's a
lot of free safeties that are not forty fast, but
they very well can they're dialing into the route progressions, coverages,
how they fit, quarterback tendencies, film, you know, they do
other things that make up for you know, maybe not
a fast forty time which are it's just a valuable
because at the end of the day, it's about making
plays right. And so it's an interesting, you know process
because a lot of people get really excited about numbers.
Sometimes you go on you maybe think oh I didn't
have good as numbers I wanted, But at the end
of it, all it's all about does it translate to playing?
And you got to do your best as a prospect
to help these scouts and these talent evaluators the best
you can help make that connection.
Speaker 4: So give me a little breakdown of how they're going
to view Tanner Wall. He was a Big twelve, all
Big twelve player, multi year starter, tests pretty well. He
doesn't have the forty time, but every other I think drill.
He looked really good in pro agility, three cone and vertical.
He's explosive. How was he going to be evaluated by
And he's a missionary too, and he's a Caucasian defensive back.
I mean he's listed as a free safety, strong safety.
Speaker 5: I mean, look, what's upon a time?
Speaker 4: Danny Sorensen had a fantastic combine all things considered. He
was on drafted free agent, played ten years in the league.
Speaker 2: Well, I think they look at him as probably the
because you never remember that it's not it's not really
where you get slotted and drafted in a lot of teams.
For every team, they're trying to get guys as cheap
as you can, right, they want they don't want to
like if if they don't have to draft ten or
nobody's gonna draft them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: By that, Like, that's that's the metalita. But but like
you just proved with Daniel, that doesn't mean that they
don't think he could be a successful player. As a
matter of fact, the best talent evaluators in the NFL,
Bill Belichick fits this one. Uh My guy, Ted Thompson
with the Green Bay Packer fits this. John Schnyder with
the Seattle Seahawks fits this mold. And they just look
at draft as a medium draft pick, as a medium
of exchange. That's it. They don't look at it like, oh,
the higher I draft a guy, the more I expect
him to be a pro bowler or whatever. I mean.
It's ideal, but in reality it's it's actually, Okay, this
is the player we want, this is how we value him,
this is how we think other teams them. Okay, the
cost of getting him now equals a first round Okay,
we bring him in. You know, And like Tanner, I
would imagine that they're thinking, well, most teams probably aren't
going to draft him, so that means we're gonna come
with a lot of money and free agent market whatever.
That money is you know, again, it's gonna be the
beating war, and we're gonna get him in here as
a free agent because we feel like nobody else is
gonna take matter draftic. But we believe whether it's a
free agent or a first round or in these guys
and we believe that they have equal amount of opportunities.
For sure, it's gonna be more with the first rounder,
but still from a time evaluator's perspective, it's looked at
as like, these guys are our contributors, and we're gonna
give them every chance to contribute. That's how these guys
are look at because that's how much most the good ones,
that's how much they value their evaluating issue they're evaluating
skills of players coming in is they value them so
much that everybody they bring in they can see a
future with that player. But then now that player has
to go out deliver, and if that player does, he's
gonna be sticking around. They're gonna, you know, give him
opportunities such as grap game time reps, gonna get him
into the rotation, and all of a sudden, you see
the jibt. You know, undrafted guys playing and they're playing
for a long time, because again, it's not a the
drafted people. He get it confused. The pick itself is
not what the team is predicting gus to what your
future is. Absolutely there is some of that, but not absolutely.
It's mostly a medium of exchange as to what they
feel like it's going to cost them to acquire your talents.
Speaker 4: Is mariy bomb but you mentioned him a few times.
Is he the next Mike Davis? The guy that goes
undrafted and stays in the league for you know, six seven,
eight years?
Speaker 2: Man, I mean, that's exactly what I thought of when
he ran a time because man, I don't I don't
care if that's at a pro day, you know, wherever.
That's a heck of a fast guy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And and then you combine that with his physicality is length,
that's not common. I would not be surprised. I'm not
predicting it because I think the teams are all kind
of locked into the same mentality they won him as
a free agent, because there is some unknowns ass his
coverage technique, how how solid that is, how how much
you could translate the mentality of a dB, those kinds
of things. But I think he has the tools to
make it happen. But I would not be surprised to
see him get drafted after that, just because of how
rare that is. To find a guy with that speed
to size combination is just so rare, and you can't
really teach it, you know. It's like, we could teach
him how a you know trap, you know trap at
the corner. We could teach him hout a you know
press Man, we could teach do all this stuff, which,
by the way, I mean that's probably I mean press
Man is you know what he did to Yu and
and a lot of teams are gonna be like, yeah,
we saw potential of that, so I would have be
done like I would not based on that forty It
would not be shocked to see him get drafted.
Speaker 4: So in late rounds though, you think five six seven
type of deal because of that high oh yeah, side yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, so you gotta remember too, a lot of these
I mean, these guys want to keep their jobs too,
remember that. Okay, So there's a there's so so I'm
trying to what I'm trying to do is help help
the listeners understand the mentality of these decision makers. The
first mentality is we look at draft bixism as a
monetary system. What does it take to get the player
into our building even though we may value a guy
as much as some other teams value first rounders. That's
like what people don't get. The second thing is is
a guy if a guy has looked at as kind
of this like a mamble guy, because I would say
he's not polished enough technique wise to where they're going
to draft him to in a slot that would be
justifiable for like a starting caliber guy like and that's
first or fourth round, because what happens is is there's
too much of a downside if he comes in and
all of a sudden he doesn't pan out. You really
looked at as a time evaluator. That's a bad look
for you like that that that doesn't get you fired,
but for surely arts to build the buzz around what
is this guy doing? And then all of a sudden
everything you start doing becomes extraly, you know, extra scrutinized.
So yeah, the conservative approach, I would say, the highest
sight see a guy that him going unless you have
I mean, the Cowboys could be one of those teams
that they just play with house money because they don't care.
Because Jerry Jones is running the fantasy football team, right,
I could see them pulling the trigger out third round,
you know. But teams that have hired personnel departments that
are trying to prove themselves and really get a footing
in that world of player acquisition, they aren't gonna take
a huge chance in him because the downside of him
not panning out just hurts their career too much. And
so there's not gonna be pointy, is There's not gonna
be a lot of teams looking to take him like
that to take that risk. So for surely fifth or
seventh round and be probably his landing spot if he
gets drafted. If he doesn't, I'm gonna tell him ten,
those guys are gonna they're going to attract tie dollars,
which probably would be the equivalent to getting drafted in
the sixth or seventh round in the free agent market,
and then they get the extra bonus of choosing the team.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and uh, I think Carson Bryan's an interesting prospect
as well. You wonder with his he had a great
overall performance from what I saw three cone one of
the best shuttle four to two to two and a
solid forty time two coming in and around that that
high four six low four seven number. He's got a
good bill to him, a pretty good explosives at thirty
thirty three and a half inch vertical, a nine to
seven broad and bench of twenty three.
Speaker 5: What do you expect from Carson? And did he improve
his stock?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I think a lot of our guys
are in that you know, free agent six seventh round,
and I would I mean, with the money they're throwing
out these free agents right now, I'd almost think it's
better to be a free agent to choose your your
landing spot. But I think he's in that same same spot,
you know, to so really as a tight end, be
a guy that they're like, hey, we're gonna draft you
in the top four rounds. You know what we what
we needed to see out of him was more, hey,
if you're gonna man us up, you don't have a
chance kind of a situation, you know what I'm saying,
Like you can't like you the guys that they're going
to be for surely getting drafted. The guys that were
nightmare matchup wise in uh in coverage, you know, and
that's just the nature of you know, the game, you know,
and I don't I wouldn't say that he showed enough
of that to where you're like, yeah, you know, he's
he's gonna get draft top four ounds because his numbers,
I would say justify him being drafted top four rounds, right.
But the main thing that comes down to is the
fact that in his plane, he didn't really establish himself
as this miss this mismatched nightmare, or teams just couldn't
figure out how to match them up. You know, he
got det up pretty good with some backer. Now, yeah,
he will loose and you had some good plays, and
he should be proud of that, no question, but that
that doesn't move the needle enough to a team, and
my opinions could be, oh, we to get him in
the top four rounds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Now if you want to see the comparison, you know,
you turned to Jack Kelly. See Jack Kelly is the
guy that yeah, you know, they look at and they're like,
we've seen him already do what we feel like sands
Lakes to our level. That means he's he's immediately can
be used. And the downside of taking him those top
four rounds is minimized because we can see it. It's
very evident. He can rush the pass, or he can
move in space. He's physical, he can you know, hit gaps,
he can diagnose the running play, he can run with
running backs, he can run with tight ends, you know,
all that stuff Jack Kelly showed. And so that's why
the team's like, yeah, that's that's easier for us to
to see the translation because, like I said, and that's
really what it comes down to, what your value is
coming out of college is how easy can a team
see you fit in their scheme and be successful at
the at the next level. And that's, like I said,
that's why it's always incumbent on the player to help
these guys as much as possible because they just don't
have enough resources. So the message to all these other
guys like Carson and Tanner and Mambas, hey help them out,
you know, and if they don't see it right now,
then go show it to him. And though they'll compensate
you accordingly.
Speaker 4: Brad withpinga here on your Utah ESPN Radio network, a
little keeping up with the Cougar's talking some Cougar football
as well as BYU Proda Chase Roberts improved his forty
time ends up running a four to five one. I
think he improved his twenty yard shuttle as well for
two eight and then a three coat of six y
nine six point nine zero at his height his weight.
I think those are impressive numbers. Why is it that
there's always a discrepancy between combine forties and pro da forties.
Speaker 5: Typically it's about a tenth off.
Speaker 4: It seems a tent slower at the combine comparative to
the pro day.
Speaker 2: That's a good one. I mean, just sir, you know,
I mean we all know the famous downhill track that
we had on the old turf. Do you remember that
back then, back of the day.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they never brought that down. I know Solberg got
to run on that one. I think he set a
record that year on that thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And finally one of the scouts got down. I
don't know if he got down on all fours or
the stomach. What he looked at is like, way, this
is downhill. You know, coach home this whole time and
been running so and that's not new by the way,
Like at Ohio State USC they would run on track
with spikes.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: So the there's that element of the actual track that
you're running on is just by nature because it's maybe
tilted or whatever, it is faster right now. The other
element is a comfort level. You know, when you're at
your own space, you're you're on the field that you've
trained on for years, you're around your people, it's in
the middle of the afternoon, you haven't been put through
all these different interviews and tests and stress points. That's
just gonna be a situation where there's a higher probability
of high level performance, you know. And that's and that's
by design. That's why the combine is set up the
way it is. I think, like I've mentioned on the
air with you before, I do believe they soften that
a little bit because they do want to see guys
run fast because that means that the more guys are
going to participate at the combine in in their environment.
And that's what these teams like do they want to
see They want to see you in their environment under
their kind of pressure points and see how you respond.
But yeah, I think I mean it's a it's a
good thing, you know. I don't think, like I said,
with Chase, it's gonna, you know, drastically change your stock.
I still look at he's in the same but I
think those other guys where he's sixth, seventh, you know,
round or fifth, maybe fifth again with his his inconsistency
of being an absolute just matchup nightmare, because he could
have been. You know, I think I think he showed
phenomenal flashes of hands time, you know, the back shoulder stuff,
jumping over smaller receivers like he did against Utah. You know,
we'll see how much these teams hold his hamstring against him,
which some will some will We'll say, hey, you either
play healthier or we're going to evaluate you like you
are healthy. And if you have your hamstring, we're gonna
look at you like you're you're healthy, and if you're
you're limited, then that's that's on you, you know what
I mean, That's just how these teams are. But that's
a yeah, because I think I think he fits the
mold and I think Carson's the same way of what
NFL teams are looking for. And like I said, the
draft pick again, I don't think people should get too
caught up with it because that's just the medium of exchange.
You know, I can see both of those guys, all
these guys that we have, you know, even JT, you know,
getting in there and really just making it happen, whether
he's drafted or not, just getting in there. And because JT,
you know, at times last year was our best defensive
front guy. I mean, he had moments where he just
took the game over, you know, And I think that's
that's a guy right there. I think if if there's
anybody I would have like, I'd bet on that he
gets he gets valued higher than everybody thinks, he would
be the guy because they're they're highly valued positioned interior noseguards,
three techniques. He's showing tremendous growth, like he's on a
really you know, his curve is steep and uh and
then he you know, he tested well considering how his
size and so yeah, I mean I see that a
lot of these guys to where it's like they just
need to get in the camp, get new a good situation,
and just get to work. And I think, you know,
they if they showed the same kind of growth and
attitude that they show to BYU and they're able to
capture that, which is hard it's hard to capture that
because plenty is you know, in that staff just they
create such a fun environment to plan. A lot of
coaches don't believe in that. A lot of coaches are
the opposite when they want to make it a common
suffering to where everybody has to bond through suffering, and
it's kind of annoying. You know. It's like, man, you
went from a place where it's like the environment was
conducive to be fun and loose, and now it's like
you have to you have to find a place, a
happy place within yourself that's completely separate from the environment.
Because they want to make it help and they want
to see guys who are going to respond because they
feel like that that kind of is the filter of
who's going to rise and be the tough guys and
who they're gonna get rid of. You know, that's hard
for some people. But all of them are capable. Man,
all of them are really good football players test the world.
They try hard, they work hard, and man, I'm excited
to see what comes of it because I said, I
can see all these guys just getting in the right position,
right situation and just oh exploding being starters. You know,
being like a Daniel Sorenson that's around for ten fifteen years.
Speaker 4: I think it's interesting you brought up JT because as
I look at the list of guys that aren't like
the draftable prospects, they're more of the maybe late round
or undrafted free agent. I feel like from a football
player standpoint, and maybe even a twitch standpoint.
Speaker 5: Actually low key, I like Austin Lay USA.
Speaker 4: He's kind of a versatile kid, a versatile athlete like
guard tackle, maybe even put him at center. He tests
it out extremely well too, so I think that'll bode
well for him. I don't know what his arm length is,
but I think his hands are pretty big and pretty
good arm length anyway. But JT, for as a football
player and twitchy, he kind of reminds me of Travis
Tweyloma back in his prime, kind of like a little
baby silver back.
Speaker 5: And I thought he tests out well.
Speaker 4: I hope he finds a spot as like, what do
you think he's more like a three tech?
Speaker 5: Is he a five tech? What do you see him as?
Speaker 2: No? No, he was very good anywhere from three to
one No meaning nos, you know three, two zero, you
know knows out to three and now, those guys are
so hard to find and they set your defense. And
that's why I mean, if you're going to overdraft on
a guy too, you overdraft on those guys because, by
the way, guess why, they're easier to hide, They're easier
to kind of fit. They don't pan out. It's like
they're kind of in the mix. They don't get a
lot of stats. Anyway, a dB is highly risky because
they're always on an island and if they're struggling, man,
everybody knows, right. So if I was going to bet
on a guy that gets picked higher or maybe go
you know, gets paid more than the free agent market
than maybe something, thought, it'd be JT because he fits
the mold of a premium position, someone that you can hide,
meaning it's a little less risky for these guys the
town evaluators. And then he's he's on a really nice track.
Speaker 5: Brady, real quick.
Speaker 4: I know you love talking ball with us, but you
do a lot during the day for your company health
human performance, fitness company. You guys do it all over
there building out gyms. For those that are listening right
now that are looking to build out a gym in
their corporate space, or at their home. Best way to
contact you and what are some of the products and
services you offer to our listeners.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're a full service fitness equipment manufacturing brand
where we offer service. We offer like you mentioned, designing
gym space, We implement all the designs we represent high
level strength and cardio, and then we have the best
prices because we don't work with dealers, we're always direct
to the consumers, so we offer wholesale pricing. We've had
two really good contacts, by the way, come from this show,
and one is Line Pickle up in the Boise, Idaho area.
They have a couple of locations. We just did an
installation with them a couple of weeks ago with the
brand new facility beautiful fitness center and the truck ranch
owned by Jaden Wagner up in West Jordan. A phenomenal
facility there too, which is you know, it's good for
their employees. I don't. I'm not sure if a customer
can go access those imensities, but for the employees for sure,
it's it's a really nice operation. And it was really
a pleasure to work with both of those places because
it just started out with the design face you know,
we start out at the design phase, took their space
and we're able to create what they wanted, and that's
what we can do for everyone. It doesn't matter if
it's a big gym like these two I just mentioned,
or if it's a home space, we can take that
space and converted into your dream fitness space to we're
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to be, and we're all We're all about it. So
you could contact me directly at aight O one three
six eight one win O two. That's aight oh one
three six eight one two. It's my direct cell phone
number if you want to talk a little BYU football
in the process, and I'm all for that too. So
aight one three six eight one win O two would
look forward to hearing from you. Yeah.
Speaker 4: One last thing be bop camp Koalani still underway. We're
getting towards the end of springball. Would have been the
store word lines. You've both been most intrigued by players
that have stood out to you thus far.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Bear's good because Bear has been very very comfortable,
like he is on it man, like he gets the
ball out quick. He understands what the defense is doing
very quickly. He presses all the defense's hot buttons in
terms of what's the weaknesses. He changes plays at the underscrimagine.
I think he was doing that last year, by the way.
But you just see a comfort level with him that's
so impressive because at first last year I saw a
flash of that in his first practice because it was
the basic install. But then as they kind of install
more and more, you can see him with the old
paralysis by over analysis. And then during the season you
just saw this kind of you know, Roderick just trickling
information to him as he felt more and more comfortable.
And then by Texas Tech and then Georgia Tech. Wow,
those two games, by the way, And I've said this
on there before, maybe I did, maybe I saw this,
but I just I really am excited for people to
see when we played teams like Texas Tech again next
year and we'll place some elite teams you told you
one with bear fully healthy, fully comfortable in this offense.
It's gonna be a fun thing to see. I'm just
gonna tell you right now, because we saw in that
first drive. I want everybody to know that Texas Tech
had their hands on their hips looking at each other, going,
we cannot stop this guy, and lo behold you. He
hurts his ankle and all of a sudden it just
got difficult. But he learned new information in that game,
Bear did and then he applied it against Georgia Tech
when he still could have moved and Georgia Tech was
thrown all the blitzer at it, and that he could
now that he's back to one, he gained all that
new information. That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing like a
veteran quarterback that's only a sophomore.
Speaker 5: Pretty crazy. See how far he's gone with it.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. And the thing is he's huge, you know,
like and he's not he's not a guy that's I
mean because if his size, a lot of people have
seen his number, they see him he's a runner. No,
this guy can literally sit in the pocket and pick
you apart, and then all of a sudden sit in
the pocket and once you're you know, if you've got
everything covered, he can break contain or break through the
middle of the pocket and all of a sudden, now
you're doing with a three hundred earth like two hundred
and thirty five maybe probably two hundred fifty pounds running back.
That's got some momentum builds up that can run you over,
make you miss. I mean, it's it's a beautiful thing.
It'ssy I really don't know if we've seen anyone like him,
And I'm not trying to overhype him. I'm always trying
to think of comps. You know, Taysoum is a good
comp but Taysom couldn't throw. I mean, he Taysom throws
the ball. I thought, well, but he's not at this level.
This is a level of throwing and running that and
the running isn't the streaky running like we see with
a Lamar Jackson or you know, like even you'll see
that Patch Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers do. This is a big, physical,
wear you down runner. I don't know if we've seen
anything like it. It's very fasting combination. And Roderick's done
a nice job building him up. Then he's done a
nice job responding and it's just like to see him
that comfortable. I mean, he's hard to defend. Man to
ask Kelly when you get him on again and say,
what's it been like with defending Bear to Spring, Kelly
was like, it's not been easy. He keeps reading. I mean,
because Kelly's got a lot of really good deceptive you know,
coverages and how they rotate the safeties and you don't
know what's coming until the doc of the ball snapped
and it does not seem to bother Bear. And then
if you show, I'm telling you you show too quick.
It's over. I mean, it is over. It's like it's done.
He knows what you're doing. He's gonna adjust, he's gonna
make make you pay. It's like the the blitz counts
for nothing kind of what he did, like against Georgia Tech.
So it's fun. It's it's fun. We just got to,
you know, hopefully keep him healthy and keep him growing.
Speaker 4: Brady, Good ladies and gentlemen. Brady, always a pleasure, always
a blessing, talking ball with you. Thanks for hopping on.
We invite everyone to shoot your text, give you a
call and set up a home gym or a corporate
or get into some equipment that you may need in
your already built out Jim hit up Brady Papinka today.
Speaker 5: Brady always appreciate our time.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 5: Thanks for hopping on today.
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure.
Speaker 4: I have a good rest today, guys, they go, that's
Brady Papinga and it was brought to you by our
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do our show without our sponsors. Big Cougar Rode everyone
that joined us. We had a star set a gash
shout out to Ronald the three Man Weaver, Brett always
bringing the hammer, Kalonie Shatake. Former Bay safety Tanner Wall
from Prode, former BAU wide receiver Chase Roberts from BAU Prod.
Former BA linebacker Jack Kelly from Prody. We had Jonathan Tabinari,
Darnell Dixon, and Brady Papiga.