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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to men sex and Tandra.

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<v Speaker 2>Discover where your parents, porn and religion never taught you

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<v Speaker 2>about being a man and having extraordinary sex. Get ready

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<v Speaker 2>to have your mind blown and your world rocked.

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<v Speaker 1>Alrighty, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, this is something different and super exciting. Everybody

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<v Speaker 2>I have put out a call a request. It's like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're a dude or somebody probably a guy, you're

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who's been listening to this show and you

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<v Speaker 2>are brave and want to come on and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>get coached or see what it's like to bring something

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<v Speaker 2>to the table and get this in real time and

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<v Speaker 2>share with everybody else what it might look like. I've

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<v Speaker 2>had that out there for a while. I've had a

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<v Speaker 2>few people kind of dip their to ooh ooh, dip

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<v Speaker 2>their toe in, but they had a lot of caveats.

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<v Speaker 2>They were like, well, don't ask me about this, and

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<v Speaker 2>don't talk about this and whatever until dun dun dun,

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<v Speaker 2>dun dun dum he's already laughing. Or Robert showed up

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<v Speaker 2>and dropped into my email and was like, I'm ready

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<v Speaker 2>to be vulnerable, honest, show up, let's do this. So

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<v Speaker 2>Robert give us a little bit about you know, your

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<v Speaker 2>name is Robert. You don't have to use your last name,

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<v Speaker 2>but just give me a little bit about what. How

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<v Speaker 2>have you been listening and what intrigued you? Why are

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<v Speaker 2>you here.

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I've only been listening for a couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 3>and you showed up my Spotify suggestions, which I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know how Spotify knew that I needed to listen to you.

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<v Speaker 1>It did somehow.

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<v Speaker 3>I hadn't even been looking up anything related to the

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<v Speaker 3>topic either, you know, it just came up. So I

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<v Speaker 3>just started listening a couple of weeks ago. I'd been

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<v Speaker 3>intrigued by so Tantra or Nia Tantra for a while

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<v Speaker 3>and feeling quiet, I guess, kind of troubled by the

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<v Speaker 3>topic of male sexuality and what it means to be

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<v Speaker 3>a man into how to have and hold healthy sexuality.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, Dove write in. I really was quite moved

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<v Speaker 3>by the first episode. I felt like what you guys

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<v Speaker 3>were discussing helped me to feel quite seen. I look

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<v Speaker 3>really quite emotionally moved by it. So after that I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, wow, like maybe this is what I've been

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<v Speaker 3>looking for. So I've just kind of been listening to

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<v Speaker 3>about four.

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<v Speaker 1>Episodes a day.

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<v Speaker 3>Listening yeah quite literally, yeah, and really just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>just being interested.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I heard your call out.

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<v Speaker 3>At some point before the call out, I was like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it'd be pretty cool to get a session

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<v Speaker 3>of time Ya at some point, maybe when I have

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<v Speaker 3>more money or something.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. And I heard your call out and

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, I can do that, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>I get I've been getting therapy for years. Either of

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<v Speaker 3>the whole therapy practice is me learning how to be

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<v Speaker 3>real and vulnerable with myself and with other vision with

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<v Speaker 3>the world. I don't really have any concerns with that.

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<v Speaker 3>I think for me, that's a path of healings. So

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of enjoy challenging myself to be vulnerable, and

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<v Speaker 3>I also kind of wanted to help as well. And

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<v Speaker 3>I also just have I'm just someone that loves to

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<v Speaker 3>kind of.

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<v Speaker 1>Do weird and interesting sort of experiences. I guess I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't necessarily think that.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't necessarily think that you would get back to

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<v Speaker 3>me so soon and so eagerly, but surprise.

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<v Speaker 1>We are. Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 3>And now, listeners, it's now six a m. And I

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<v Speaker 3>just woke up and I'm on the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>So just just like that, we both showed up with

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<v Speaker 2>questionable hair. You know. The cool thing about that is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's audio only, So I keep being asked

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<v Speaker 2>to go to video. I'm not sure, like, is my

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is it is my littre better audio only?

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<v Speaker 2>Or should we do? Should I do video? Should I

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<v Speaker 2>change it to video?

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<v Speaker 3>I think some people do both, like some some people

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<v Speaker 3>have videles.

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<v Speaker 4>On thee and then could happen? Okay, first of all, awesome,

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<v Speaker 4>Yes that you uh took action.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of the things that a lot of men

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<v Speaker 2>do not do that they should be doing more of

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<v Speaker 2>is what you just did, like feeling a call or

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<v Speaker 2>feeling a even like a thread or even that fear

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<v Speaker 2>like this is edgy or like and jumping in thanks. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's that's courageous action and is to me one

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<v Speaker 2>of the more potent things a man can do to

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<v Speaker 2>show up in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know when you said, you know this whole

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<v Speaker 2>thing about men or whatever, what's it like? Uh? I

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<v Speaker 2>think the society today has caused men to lean out

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<v Speaker 2>and not lean in, when some of men's best expressions

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<v Speaker 2>is the lean in to it and course correct on the.

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<v Speaker 1>Go MT set a stuff back.

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<v Speaker 2>And analyze too much and think about it too much,

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<v Speaker 2>and do all these things too much too much. That

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<v Speaker 2>for one, it actually lowers testosterone levels.

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<v Speaker 1>To overthink out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you know all of these men sitting back

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<v Speaker 2>and leaning out, uh that kind of stuff. Just really

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<v Speaker 2>walk everything down the male energy, testosterone, chemistry, everything, and

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<v Speaker 2>so more of that lean in even if there's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be mistakes, trusting yourself that you can course correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Mm in the mistake. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I don't want to paint paint am inaccurate picture

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<v Speaker 3>because I'm definitely a nervous in care about most things.

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<v Speaker 3>It's certain things that I'm courageous on. Certain things I

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<v Speaker 3>think around.

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<v Speaker 2>Like.

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<v Speaker 3>Introspective kind of personal development kind of things like there,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a bit I can be quite ballsy, but certainly

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<v Speaker 3>in other ways in my life in relationships, I'm not.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a leaner in a.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, use those terms because my ex used to say,

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<v Speaker 3>I just want you to lean in a little more.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people tell me that I'm a little bit like

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<v Speaker 2>mind reading psychic when I'm a coach. When I'm coaching, so.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, well sure, And I felt.

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<v Speaker 2>Like even though we didn't discuss anything about issues before this.

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<v Speaker 2>We were just like, we jumped on it right before starting.

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<v Speaker 2>That just was something that came to me as an

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<v Speaker 2>important to start with. Is that whole lean in?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, okay, I'm sure. So do you want me

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<v Speaker 1>to what do you want me to say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you said that your ex was like she

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<v Speaker 2>wanted you to lean in? Did you understand what that meant?

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, because women say things to men all

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<v Speaker 2>the time and men are like, uh uh this we

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<v Speaker 2>did talk about what does it mean when you hear

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<v Speaker 2>somebody tell you I want you to lean in? What

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<v Speaker 2>did it mean to you?

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<v Speaker 1>What?

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmmm, Well, what it meant to me. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that she wanted me to, ah be more vulnerable in

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<v Speaker 3>the way of investing more in the relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, so.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of showing my investment and kind of me being

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<v Speaker 3>the one that pushes for deeper investment.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So that's another one of those words. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>what is that I told you about that? We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to ever time you say something, I'm going to say,

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<v Speaker 2>tell me more about that, Tell me more about that?

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<v Speaker 3>So right, So, well, I think in order to explain

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<v Speaker 3>why there's a lot of stuff around this term for me,

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<v Speaker 3>probably just to explain the dynamic with me at my

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<v Speaker 3>ex was.

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<v Speaker 1>She was eight years older than me.

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<v Speaker 3>And very much when we started dating, she very much

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<v Speaker 3>like selected me, like you're it, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So she came in. She came in with the mail energy,

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<v Speaker 2>she came in leaning in because that's a leaning.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah like, and she really felt that I was I

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<v Speaker 3>was it. I was the love that she'd been looking for.

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<v Speaker 3>Where she was was my first sort of proper relationship

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<v Speaker 3>for first emotionally vulnerable and connected and.

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<v Speaker 1>Invested like I guess how monongus? What was that? Sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thirty three. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So we started dating about four years ago, so for

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<v Speaker 3>me it was quite a big deal. And for for

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<v Speaker 3>someone to come in when I was I felt I

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<v Speaker 3>was just ready to be the relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I.

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<v Speaker 3>And she really wanted it all and really felt that

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<v Speaker 3>I was it and wanted me to tell her I

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<v Speaker 3>loved her, and that was all these different things, and

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<v Speaker 3>eventually that progressed to her wanting to have children with

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<v Speaker 3>me and wanting to marry me and all these different things.

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<v Speaker 1>And I really.

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<v Speaker 3>Felt the need to feel safe in order to do that,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly because it was my first time that I was

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<v Speaker 3>in a relationship, So for me, it was always like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>I was always bringing up fears and concerns as to why,

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<v Speaker 3>which you know, I felt very valid, very logical years

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<v Speaker 3>and concerns. But I think I for her, she just

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<v Speaker 3>wanted me to feel as though I was being vulnerable

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<v Speaker 3>and making steps so wanting to move in with her,

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<v Speaker 3>And because I felt I couldn't because I didn't feel safe,

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<v Speaker 3>she then didn't feel safe herself, which I think probably

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<v Speaker 3>exacerbated her intensity. So I think when you when you

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<v Speaker 3>talk about leaning in, I think it's hard for me

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<v Speaker 3>to understand. Is it really I have an issue with

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<v Speaker 3>leaning in or was it just in those circumstances that

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<v Speaker 3>it was really scary for me in a way that

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<v Speaker 3>was understandable.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, she came at you in her

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<v Speaker 2>masculine so that's that's a maskul like, she did all

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<v Speaker 2>the things she wanted you to do, and then because

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<v Speaker 2>she took up the space, you couldn't actually do it

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<v Speaker 2>because she dropped you into.

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<v Speaker 1>This, I agree with you.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that she gave me a chance to have

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<v Speaker 3>a masculine exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So I look at this as and this women and

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<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh. When I teach workshops with couples and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, I have the women raise their hand

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<v Speaker 2>and say, I am going to step back for a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>It's I believe we need both masculine and feminine. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we run both. But the reality is that woman is

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<v Speaker 2>charging in. You are it, you are everything. Let's move in,

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<v Speaker 2>let's have babies, let's get married. Why don't you tell

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<v Speaker 2>me you love me? And you're like, holy shit, where do

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<v Speaker 2>I even have space to lean in?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree, I agree. That was the feeling it was.

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<v Speaker 3>It was a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, well yeah, she did it wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, thank you for val I mean, she did it.

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<v Speaker 2>She did it wrong. And I've been there.

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<v Speaker 1>I have been there.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a very strong woman myself, and I absolutely know

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<v Speaker 2>if you know how to claim things I want and

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<v Speaker 2>whatever else, And I've seen the destruction that does in

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<v Speaker 2>my earlier years, where you know, if I see this

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<v Speaker 2>many doing this thing, and I'm like, oh wow, and

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<v Speaker 2>then I think, well, you know, women, we should be

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<v Speaker 2>able to claim what we want, right, I mean, there's

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<v Speaker 2>no with that. The problem came when she set the

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<v Speaker 2>precedent of the energetic connection and then didn't inspire you,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, demanded in that same energetic equation.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it never felt like all of my steps

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<v Speaker 3>never felt like enough, you know, yes, too slow basically,

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<v Speaker 3>which made me feel like I couldn't take steps, which

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<v Speaker 3>exactly Ma did the issue for her.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that was a death spiral from the start.

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<v Speaker 3>Gosh, yeah, that's so true. That's just nice to hear

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<v Speaker 3>you say that. It's quite a heavy experience.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because you know, and I just I've

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<v Speaker 2>been posting all over Facebook about all this, but I

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<v Speaker 2>just now got after eight years, got into a relationship

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really interesting to watch him the experience in

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<v Speaker 2>such a way that I really stepped back and this

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<v Speaker 2>is not typical for me. So it was like such

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<v Speaker 2>a juxtaposition every single thing. He escalated everything. It's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what that looks like when somebody's really into and

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<v Speaker 2>you give well, dad, but I, like so many other

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<v Speaker 2>women want that, but don't realize we are not nourishing it.

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<v Speaker 2>We are not literally giving it the space to breathe.

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<v Speaker 2>Because we may know faster, we made me more intuitive,

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<v Speaker 2>and so then we are like come on already. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what I feel like she was impatient.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>She used to say if you didn't say that, if

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<v Speaker 3>the couple didn't say that they loved each other in

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<v Speaker 3>three months, then you were supposed to give me a flick?

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<v Speaker 1>Was her philosoph listen.

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<v Speaker 2>To all those men that the seducing dudes.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, yeah, it's such a shame.

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<v Speaker 3>It's such a shame because here I am four years

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<v Speaker 3>later and I deeply love her, and it didn't help

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<v Speaker 3>having that pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, well, maybe so did you? Not so in

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<v Speaker 2>that I didn't know she was pushing How would you

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<v Speaker 2>know what you were feeling?

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<v Speaker 1>Say that last, but the answer she was.

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<v Speaker 2>Pushing in so hard. How would you have known what

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<v Speaker 2>you were actually experiencing other than her push in?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally, totally. And I didn't feel that I loved

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<v Speaker 1>her when I said it.

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<v Speaker 3>Unfortunately, he was hoping that she never hears this podcast episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Randomly and that breaks the heart.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, truthfully, I didn't, But I felt it was

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<v Speaker 3>just going to kind of appease. I had love for her,

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<v Speaker 3>but I didn't. I wasn't in love with her. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>but it was you know, it'd been three months, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, yeah, so she had an agenda definitely right.

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<v Speaker 1>You know you're the one.

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<v Speaker 2>My biological clock is ticking. Uh, you know, we've got

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<v Speaker 2>exactly this stuff happening here, move it forward here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and if you don't take these steps, then you

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<v Speaker 3>don't actually love me.

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<v Speaker 2>Did she actually ever say that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, like you obviously in love with me the

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<v Speaker 3>way that I am with you, and you don't understand

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<v Speaker 3>how I feel and you never felt this way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was quiet and you know that's gaslighting, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that, and I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's abusive and toxic.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, hopefully hear that.

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<v Speaker 2>That is not That is not a way anybody that's

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<v Speaker 2>emotionally intelligent or mature. That's blaming, shaming and gaslighting.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, and I appreciate hearing that. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you can't be I mean coursing somebody into love.

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<v Speaker 2>That's manipulation and coersion, right, and causing into loving you

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<v Speaker 2>because you are trying to convince them that you know

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<v Speaker 2>and feel and whatever. And I've been there, I've done

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00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:05.399
<v Speaker 2>these horrible things. That's why I can call it out.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, whether that's desperate on the woman's part or

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<v Speaker 2>whatever it is, but it's not it's not Okay, there's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing okay about that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, it's you know, after all these years, I

296
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.039
<v Speaker 3>have a lot of compassion for why she is and

297
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.399
<v Speaker 3>was the way she was at that time, and after

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00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.320
<v Speaker 3>all these years, I have also.

299
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:32.399
<v Speaker 1>Become emotionally invested.

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00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we're broken up now, but he and I

301
00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:38.960
<v Speaker 3>we have this little dance going on.

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00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.879
<v Speaker 2>Probably trauma. It's called a trauma bond.

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00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I fear it's a trauma bond because it's interesting

304
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.840
<v Speaker 3>because I'm like, you know, curious timing once more with

305
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.360
<v Speaker 3>this whole thing. I we spoke on the phone because

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00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.679
<v Speaker 3>she had reached out to me, suggesting that in fact

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00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:01.080
<v Speaker 3>now she doesn't want children and that she wants to

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00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.759
<v Speaker 3>come back to me. So we've spoken on the phone,

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00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.119
<v Speaker 3>and every time we do, I have this re encounter

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00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.200
<v Speaker 3>with these feelings of yearning and love for my connection

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00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.960
<v Speaker 3>to that, but they seem to be so disconnected with

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<v Speaker 3>You're talking about all the gas landing and the toxicity

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00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.920
<v Speaker 3>and things like that, And at the beginning of the relationship,

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00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.400
<v Speaker 3>all I felt was the toxicity. All I felt was

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00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.640
<v Speaker 3>the pressure and not being seen and all these sorts

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00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.799
<v Speaker 3>of things. So it's interesting I have this kind of

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00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:31.519
<v Speaker 3>disconnection between those experiences and this sense of yes, love.

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00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:32.559
<v Speaker 1>And yearning that kind of comes out.

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00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:37.880
<v Speaker 3>And I'm sure that's probably textbook trauma Ponting's tua.

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00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because it get used to this well, you know,

321
00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.599
<v Speaker 2>and I also don't. One of the things that I'm

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00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.559
<v Speaker 2>writing a book called Uncoupling love because love shouldn't be

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00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.519
<v Speaker 2>a reason you're with somebody. I know that sounds weird.

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00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually sentimental, I'm romantic. I'm all that. But love

325
00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:01.880
<v Speaker 2>is just one component. It's like respect being seen. I mean,

326
00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:05.400
<v Speaker 2>there's so many other because the love part. We can

327
00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.799
<v Speaker 2>fall in love with people that are completely brad for us,

328
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>completely wrong for us. We can we can mistake we

329
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.480
<v Speaker 2>can mistake desire for love. We can mistake comfort for love.

330
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:19.880
<v Speaker 2>We can mistake trauma, bonding for love, love accurate reason

331
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.039
<v Speaker 2>or you know, take if you took out, take that

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00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.799
<v Speaker 2>out for a moment, what do you have left?

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00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:34.160
<v Speaker 3>Take the love out? Yeah? Mmm, well, I mean on

334
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.680
<v Speaker 3>on that. An observation I've had since we broke up

335
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.480
<v Speaker 3>is recognizing that not in it sounds bad, but I

336
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.920
<v Speaker 3>never really respected her. I found that he and I

337
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.599
<v Speaker 3>probably didn't really like her personality in a lot of ways.

338
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:51.799
<v Speaker 3>This is a heartbreaking and scary to say on a

339
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:57.240
<v Speaker 3>on a podcast that people can listen to, but I I, yeah,

340
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:01.039
<v Speaker 3>I found her personality quite annoying and that I felt

341
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.319
<v Speaker 3>that he didn't take enough accountability, which is where the

342
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:05.400
<v Speaker 3>lack of respect came from.

343
00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Because I'm someone.

344
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.079
<v Speaker 3>That has put so much effort into and feel like

345
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.839
<v Speaker 3>I've been so brave in that department, and to see

346
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.799
<v Speaker 3>someone that just didn't want to I didn't want to

347
00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:20.039
<v Speaker 3>face certain things I think I could.

348
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.559
<v Speaker 1>I struggle to respect that as a kind of quality.

349
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why you weren't going down the love trail. Men,

350
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:31.079
<v Speaker 2>So when men are into a woman, they they're kind

351
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.440
<v Speaker 2>of Everybody says it's all visual, but it's not actually true.

352
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.559
<v Speaker 2>There's you know, there's a geometry thing. But then it's like,

353
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.359
<v Speaker 2>do they line up with my life? Do you line

354
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.480
<v Speaker 2>up with my vision of you know, would this person

355
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.599
<v Speaker 2>like I can see them in alignment with my mission

356
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.039
<v Speaker 2>and what the things I want to do, and that

357
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:54.880
<v Speaker 2>if you don't have like and respect, that's kind of hard.

358
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:56.759
<v Speaker 1>I know.

359
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:01.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I look first, first time, opening up my heart

360
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:04.440
<v Speaker 3>first relationship, I think there was a lot of not

361
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:09.319
<v Speaker 3>knowing that was coming along with the experiences I was

362
00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:13.680
<v Speaker 3>having in my heart, and I also had a suspicion

363
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.920
<v Speaker 3>that I was someone that would run away from these things,

364
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.200
<v Speaker 3>being vulnerable. I've got a lot of relational trauma from

365
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.839
<v Speaker 3>my childhood, which is I think why there was such

366
00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:29.480
<v Speaker 3>a delay for me starting and entering in a relationship.

367
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.119
<v Speaker 3>I think I just struggled to know how to connect

368
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.000
<v Speaker 3>with people in a way that would elicit that.

369
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but yeah, I didn't really like or respect her.

370
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.119
<v Speaker 3>I love I had, and honestly, my love was more

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00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.599
<v Speaker 3>of a compassionate love for the longest.

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<v Speaker 2>Time from yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>It's which and that's hard to when you say, you know,

374
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:58.440
<v Speaker 3>it's toxic, she was gaslighting you. It gets a bit

375
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:03.400
<v Speaker 3>confused with my compassion yeah for her, because I find

376
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:06.119
<v Speaker 3>it difficult to just be like, yeah, she was, you

377
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:06.960
<v Speaker 3>know so, but.

378
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:11.839
<v Speaker 2>You could do well, So you know, it's as somebody

379
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.559
<v Speaker 2>who helps people change for a living, I see some

380
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.720
<v Speaker 2>of the worst of people and know that they can

381
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:23.119
<v Speaker 2>become the best of themselves. Well, you're as compassionate as

382
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:27.200
<v Speaker 2>you are. What you're doing is you were abandoned, not understood.

383
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>So I'll say this is your childhood trauma abandoned, not understood.

384
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, you were never enough, and so what happens

385
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:40.880
<v Speaker 2>is then you overcompensate for other people because you're like,

386
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:43.599
<v Speaker 2>if somebody had just loved me enough and not done that,

387
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:49.079
<v Speaker 2>they could have seen me really, and so.

388
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.839
<v Speaker 3>I think you'd be this it's just funny too be

389
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.440
<v Speaker 3>the one that you're perceiving, you know.

390
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, you reckon. She probably

391
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.400
<v Speaker 2>had a similar kind of experience, and so you were

392
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.440
<v Speaker 2>filling that space, yes, and that's what she saw on you.

393
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.759
<v Speaker 2>So let's not get this wrong. She you you are

394
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:16.000
<v Speaker 2>the one because you would allow her to mold you.

395
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:19.640
<v Speaker 2>But then the frustration of you not showing up the

396
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.039
<v Speaker 2>way she the validation. She didn't get validation that she

397
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:23.680
<v Speaker 2>needed from you.

398
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:30.240
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, and you know to

399
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.119
<v Speaker 3>to not let's not put all the blame on her.

400
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.759
<v Speaker 3>I came in with a basket full of problems as well,

401
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:39.799
<v Speaker 3>my grief case.

402
00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:46.240
<v Speaker 2>In my grief case, yeah, well, I mean there's never

403
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:50.440
<v Speaker 2>one dynamic. Sure, yeah, there are plenty of men listening

404
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.519
<v Speaker 2>to us to going dude, what the fuck, Like what

405
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:54.119
<v Speaker 2>do you mean to Like, you didn't respect her and

406
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:55.240
<v Speaker 2>you were like going.

407
00:22:55.079 --> 00:22:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sounds kind of fucked up. I get it.

408
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:00.920
<v Speaker 3>But but you know what, in the light in it,

409
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.839
<v Speaker 3>like I was disrespectful to her. It was more I

410
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.559
<v Speaker 3>just I wanted certain qualities out of a partner that

411
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:11.200
<v Speaker 3>I I was frustrated. Yeah, I just was like, come on,

412
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.279
<v Speaker 3>take more accountability, be more brave, you know, like let's

413
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:16.160
<v Speaker 3>face it. And like I felt I was doing that

414
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.319
<v Speaker 3>and she couldn't do it. And yeah, that's my skill set,

415
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.559
<v Speaker 3>is these kind of like feats of vulnerability and stuff

416
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.000
<v Speaker 3>like that, and I just wanted her to show up

417
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:27.880
<v Speaker 3>in that sense and then.

418
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:29.160
<v Speaker 1>I could be there with her.

419
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:30.799
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I was doing I felt like I was

420
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.880
<v Speaker 3>doing all the heavy lifting when it came to introspection.

421
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that is leaning in. So here here's the part

422
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:38.200
<v Speaker 2>that was leaning in.

423
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:39.799
<v Speaker 1>Thank you again, that felt very valid.

424
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.440
<v Speaker 2>You were leaning into the you know, we're not perfect

425
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.559
<v Speaker 2>and this kind of sun bad things happening here, and

426
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to be leaning in to support the growth

427
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.720
<v Speaker 2>that we both can do. Yeah, that's leaning, and that's

428
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:57.480
<v Speaker 2>leaning into some of the scariest stuff.

429
00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

430
00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:02.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I did a lot of that, all of it

431
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.960
<v Speaker 3>basically from my perspective, all the facing it and growing.

432
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you had identified that safety was a paramount

433
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.839
<v Speaker 2>feeling for you to enter into a love space and

434
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>be Yeah, you knew that there was going to be

435
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.640
<v Speaker 2>healing to be had from both parties. Yeah, and you

436
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:23.920
<v Speaker 2>were willing to step in and do that. And the

437
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:27.640
<v Speaker 2>stuff she was asking was premature.

438
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:32.519
<v Speaker 3>To what Yeah, Yeah, she wanted she wanted me to

439
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.640
<v Speaker 3>take actions so she could feel safe. I needed to

440
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.119
<v Speaker 3>feel safe so I could I could take actions. Right,

441
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.319
<v Speaker 3>So we were and we've continued to be locked in

442
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.960
<v Speaker 3>that paradox years.

443
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:46.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

444
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.359
<v Speaker 2>So as somebody who is the person that helps people,

445
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, get the safety spart, here's what I'm want

446
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:56.599
<v Speaker 2>to do. There's no cheese down that hole. You know

447
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.680
<v Speaker 2>what I mean by that? Don't go so a mouse

448
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.839
<v Speaker 2>goes looking for cheese down holes. Right, there is no

449
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.000
<v Speaker 2>cheese down this relationship. Hall. This is nothing you're going

450
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:09.319
<v Speaker 2>to fix with her. This is nothing she's going to

451
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>fix with you. The is not And I'm bold enough,

452
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm very courageous. I help people get together and I

453
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:17.599
<v Speaker 2>help people break up.

454
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:20.839
<v Speaker 3>But I can all that dynamic you just think is

455
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.200
<v Speaker 3>not one that can be outsmarted.

456
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:23.359
<v Speaker 1>All.

457
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:27.559
<v Speaker 2>No, because you're not supposed to be a therapist. I mean,

458
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:30.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, if she was if she had gone away

459
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.839
<v Speaker 2>and she's you know, like you guys broke up, she left,

460
00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:35.880
<v Speaker 2>whatever it was, and you know it's two years later

461
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.160
<v Speaker 2>and she messages you and says, shit, man, I've been

462
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.480
<v Speaker 2>through like you know, I've been going to therapy and

463
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:43.799
<v Speaker 2>you know this women's group, and I just did all

464
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:48.279
<v Speaker 2>of this shit wrong. Right. If she came back in

465
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 2>that way, would it be you know, okay to talk

466
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.799
<v Speaker 2>to her and say, well, tell me more. Yeah, but

467
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people talk a good game too. What

468
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.200
<v Speaker 2>would be the what would you have had to have

469
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:06.759
<v Speaker 2>seen a change, because frequently when we break up with somebody,

470
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.119
<v Speaker 2>getting back together with him is not a good idea. Yeah, right,

471
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.079
<v Speaker 2>the reasons we broke up, unless it's like fifteen years later,

472
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.200
<v Speaker 2>God knows you in a union and you know everybody's different.

473
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:20.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally.

474
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, what I feel that would be a complete game

475
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.720
<v Speaker 3>change in between her and I is just accountability.

476
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no blame, no blame, but just her understanding.

477
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.160
<v Speaker 3>Her pardonent and the kind of I guess the maybe

478
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:39.839
<v Speaker 3>not consequences of the way is the word, but the

479
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.119
<v Speaker 3>implications of her parliament.

480
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, yeah, why do you think you were it

481
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.839
<v Speaker 2>for her? I mean, first of all, you know this

482
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.039
<v Speaker 2>is audio only, but let me tell you all guys again,

483
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 2>here I'm objectifying another man. You're going to find out

484
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.039
<v Speaker 2>that as you listen to the show. Really Robert is

485
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty three, he is HELLI sexy, He's a good looking man.

486
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.359
<v Speaker 2>I can tell he's smart. So he's got a lot

487
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:05.799
<v Speaker 2>of options out there. Thanks just saying, and so I

488
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:08.559
<v Speaker 2>can understand, you know, from just that purely where that

489
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.960
<v Speaker 2>she was like yes, hell yes, But what do you

490
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.480
<v Speaker 2>think what was she seeing in you that you think

491
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.240
<v Speaker 2>made her so like you're it?

492
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Hm? I mean I don't know.

493
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.480
<v Speaker 3>Obviously I'm not in her head, in her heart, but

494
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:34.279
<v Speaker 3>my feeling around this m because of her history. I

495
00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.799
<v Speaker 3>think that she had a lot of she had a

496
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:43.559
<v Speaker 3>lot of sexual trauma, and she was actually I mean no,

497
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.680
<v Speaker 3>maybe I won't say this. This isn't because me vulnerable.

498
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.160
<v Speaker 2>You can keep yeah, absolutely, yeah.

499
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:54.319
<v Speaker 1>So I yeah, she had a lot of sexual trauma.

500
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 3>And the kind of people that she dated in the

501
00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:05.240
<v Speaker 3>past were like drug dealers, like you know, kind of

502
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:09.319
<v Speaker 3>bad boy archetypes, people with a lot of money, but

503
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:13.799
<v Speaker 3>like who were probably quite emotionally disconnected.

504
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:14.559
<v Speaker 1>I'll promote.

505
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 3>Well, I understand there are decent men in a lot

506
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.599
<v Speaker 3>of ways, but they are you know, came with all

507
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:24.000
<v Speaker 3>of it disconnection and issues, and then I came along

508
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 3>and I feel as though, I, yeah, I'm introspective, you know,

509
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:34.240
<v Speaker 3>emotionally intelligent and sweet, you know, sweet and about to.

510
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Say so the sweet in general. So what she did

511
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is swung from men who lean and really are and

512
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.799
<v Speaker 2>take what they want to a guy who's stepped back

513
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and just sitting back here in the suite.

514
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:48.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she used to call me my nickname. My nickname

515
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.920
<v Speaker 3>from her was sweet Potato.

516
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And so for her to go from that that

517
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.920
<v Speaker 2>juxtae session was also going to be really difficult because

518
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 2>what she wants is that other things she wanted you

519
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:04.920
<v Speaker 2>to become you to be the safe sweet potato you are,

520
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:08.240
<v Speaker 2>but then take the vibe. Then get to the take.

521
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:14.039
<v Speaker 3>Vibe totally, whereas I just stayed. But also like you know,

522
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:18.039
<v Speaker 3>sweet potato, but also like the the dark side of

523
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.839
<v Speaker 3>sweet Potato is like like, uh, you know, I brought

524
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.160
<v Speaker 3>in a lot of things that I think she didn't expect.

525
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.680
<v Speaker 3>Like I think she she saw the love in me, right,

526
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:29.799
<v Speaker 3>Like I have the capacity to have compassion, have love,

527
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.240
<v Speaker 3>and to see someone. And I saw I saw her,

528
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.119
<v Speaker 3>and I like held space for that and was gentle.

529
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.519
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's what she was always yearned for

530
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.519
<v Speaker 3>because of her trauma, right, And I gave her that,

531
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.160
<v Speaker 3>but I didn't give the whole package, probably of what

532
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:51.240
<v Speaker 3>if she was seeking. And I always felt that kind

533
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.279
<v Speaker 3>of paradox in terms of what I felt that she

534
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 3>wanted from me, Like she wanted me to be sweet

535
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.279
<v Speaker 3>and gentle, but then when.

536
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I tried to the couch and then bang couch.

537
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.759
<v Speaker 3>But I wasn't just that, Like I felt like I

538
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 3>had a lot of qualities that weren't sweet and weren't gentle.

539
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:14.880
<v Speaker 3>And I also, my whole journey has been trying to

540
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.319
<v Speaker 3>embody masculinely and understand and every time I tried to

541
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.839
<v Speaker 3>do that in any capacity, it felt like she pushed

542
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.000
<v Speaker 3>her away because I mean, look, I'm able to speak

543
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.039
<v Speaker 3>of this because I've gotten a lot of therapy of

544
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:31.359
<v Speaker 3>last and tried to unpack it. But I felt that

545
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:36.480
<v Speaker 3>her wounds were from the masculine, so.

546
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 1>She would push back on that a lot.

547
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:44.039
<v Speaker 3>You know, I felt like I couldn't you know, even

548
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.599
<v Speaker 3>a healthy version, even even a healthier.

549
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 1>Version of masculinity.

550
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.680
<v Speaker 3>She really rejected it seemed or made it very very

551
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 3>difficult for me to explore or to kind of get to.

552
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 1>She just want to sweep to tether.

553
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but then she didn't, you know exactly. So it's

554
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 2>like that, And you know what, I'm loving this conversation, Robert.

555
00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:08.039
<v Speaker 2>There are so many men that are caught what I

556
00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:14.720
<v Speaker 2>consider really good men, caught in this really weird dynamic. Yeah,

557
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:20.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, taking their power back. Wow, whatever that looks like, right,

558
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.839
<v Speaker 2>So taking their power back. They want safety, but they

559
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.480
<v Speaker 2>still want the other thing. I think I wrote a

560
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Facebook post on at the paradox of like a woman

561
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:31.519
<v Speaker 2>who wants safety and that rogue, you know, like how

562
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.079
<v Speaker 2>to and and what the heck does a man like do? Like,

563
00:31:35.319 --> 00:31:37.880
<v Speaker 2>because are you supposed to read the mind? Like, so,

564
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>when is it you want me to be your girlfriend

565
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:43.559
<v Speaker 2>and be safe and hold you here and cuddle up

566
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:45.920
<v Speaker 2>and watch chick Flix? And when is it that you

567
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:47.279
<v Speaker 2>want me to bang you on the back of the

568
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 2>couch like riot?

569
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:54.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's hardly yeah, And it eventually got to the

570
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:58.000
<v Speaker 3>point where obviously the ladder didn't happen and there was

571
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.319
<v Speaker 3>no room for that to happen, and every time I

572
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 3>tried to make it happen, I was doing it wrong.

573
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.720
<v Speaker 3>Regardless I didn't read, regardless of how much work and

574
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.359
<v Speaker 3>how much safety and all this stuff I tried to

575
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:11.119
<v Speaker 3>create around it, you know.

576
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:13.160
<v Speaker 1>And then look, this is a little bit of event.

577
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.839
<v Speaker 3>But then and this is also I shouldn't have done this,

578
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:19.000
<v Speaker 3>but she used to leave her diary just on the

579
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 3>on the kits encounter.

580
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 1>Just leave it there, you know.

581
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.519
<v Speaker 2>If she was leaving her diary on the kitchen counter,

582
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:25.319
<v Speaker 2>she was helping you.

583
00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:27.079
<v Speaker 1>Buck.

584
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.799
<v Speaker 3>Everyone said that, which makes which deepens the wound. That

585
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:31.960
<v Speaker 3>really deepens the wound.

586
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Of course.

587
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.319
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, so I I go and flicking through it, and

588
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.920
<v Speaker 3>I come across a page which the text was that

589
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.799
<v Speaker 3>she resents my lack of massive She's really put off

590
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:48.160
<v Speaker 3>by my lack of masculinity, is what she said. And yeah,

591
00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:51.519
<v Speaker 3>that's that was really really difficult and painful to hear

592
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:54.480
<v Speaker 3>because it felt like I couldn't be that. I couldn't

593
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:57.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, there was no there was no room for

594
00:32:57.599 --> 00:32:59.359
<v Speaker 3>me to even begin to explore that.

595
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:02.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, painful.

596
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Well this is this is you're not alone, and that

597
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:07.799
<v Speaker 2>this is going to be so valuable because there's so

598
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>many men that I consider really good men going through

599
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:16.359
<v Speaker 2>this very thing, right, Yeah, and most women. So here's

600
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:18.960
<v Speaker 2>something that a lot of people don't know. So one

601
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 2>can go along and be like seemingly together and then

602
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.079
<v Speaker 2>get into what a safe relationship is and then totally

603
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:31.839
<v Speaker 2>fall apart. Her sexual trauma will come up. So in fact,

604
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.160
<v Speaker 2>the more safe she is in the relationship, the more

605
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.119
<v Speaker 2>the trauma is ready to be born.

606
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:38.839
<v Speaker 1>Right. I noticed that.

607
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 3>It's interesting she came in hyper sexual and then flip,

608
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.920
<v Speaker 3>And then I feel like the moment we connected flip

609
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:49.119
<v Speaker 3>to hyper sexuality kind of like which you mind saying,

610
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 3>is like a kind of classic someone with sexual trauma

611
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:53.319
<v Speaker 3>kind of behavior.

612
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:56.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, either hypo or hyper and then the hard flip

613
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:00.839
<v Speaker 2>when they feel emotionally more safe because a lot of time,

614
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 2>if the woman is hyper sexual, her trauma is tied

615
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:09.440
<v Speaker 2>up with anxiety. Yeah, you create safety, that anxiety goes away.

616
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.360
<v Speaker 2>She gets turned off and gets angry and bitchy, and

617
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:16.320
<v Speaker 2>she wants you to step into that masculine unsafe space.

618
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.000
<v Speaker 2>But she didn't pick the unsafe man exactly. How the

619
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:21.880
<v Speaker 2>hell do you even do that?

620
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Totally, Yeah, so.

621
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 2>You're not crazy.

622
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:28.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's good.

623
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:33.199
<v Speaker 2>You were probably all this the right.

624
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.800
<v Speaker 3>And you know what it really, you know, beautiful mirror though,

625
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:41.039
<v Speaker 3>like a really exquisite mirror from the universe, because it

626
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:47.679
<v Speaker 3>really highlighted and emphasized I guess my I guess issues

627
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:52.199
<v Speaker 3>around those topics. But it's made me feel it's really

628
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.480
<v Speaker 3>put the spotlight on I guess that part within me

629
00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:00.119
<v Speaker 3>that isn't doesn't feel embodied in my masculine or well

630
00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:05.239
<v Speaker 3>as my own has my owntot around sexuality, you know,

631
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:09.679
<v Speaker 3>isn't able to create safety, isn't able to lead, and

632
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 3>just that whole I don't know, cheeseboards, using.

633
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 1>Cheese analogies, cheese analogy.

634
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Of stuff relating to my masculinity in the world, and

635
00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:30.360
<v Speaker 3>how I just don't feel I have any of them things.

636
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Nice, any of them things well, I think, but you know,

637
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:38.880
<v Speaker 2>it's like what and we explore this and a lot

638
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.800
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of topics come back, you know, in

639
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.320
<v Speaker 2>this whole show about this idea of like you know,

640
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:46.639
<v Speaker 2>what is man and what is uh? You know, all

641
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:51.760
<v Speaker 2>of you and it's it's like if and then there's

642
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.960
<v Speaker 2>people like David Dida and all these fuck boys and

643
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:54.400
<v Speaker 2>all these.

644
00:35:54.599 --> 00:36:00.199
<v Speaker 1>I hear you bring up David Dita because he probably fund.

645
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he fucked a lot of people up. I just

646
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:08.039
<v Speaker 2>I just tell you because I think that I think

647
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:12.599
<v Speaker 2>that it's not a one thing. We shouldn't be all

648
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:18.280
<v Speaker 2>leading or all submitting or all that. It shouldn't be

649
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:21.719
<v Speaker 2>like that. So for women who get lured into the

650
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Neo Tatra stuff or the David Dydas stuff, and it's like, oh,

651
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna not feel safe until you step up

652
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and make me feel safe, It's like, where the fuck

653
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:33.360
<v Speaker 2>is your personal accountability? I will take women down when

654
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:35.639
<v Speaker 2>I hear that shit. I'm like, first of all, we

655
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:39.280
<v Speaker 2>all create safety within ourselves. The first person I need

656
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:45.159
<v Speaker 2>to trust is myself, right, and both parties have to

657
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.360
<v Speaker 2>show up to be vulnerable. I mean, if we're both

658
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.639
<v Speaker 2>waiting for each other to be safe enough to vulneral,

659
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:55.360
<v Speaker 2>nobody's doing shit. We're all just going, well, you go, no,

660
00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you go. I love you. I told my new guy, like, hey,

661
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>if I you know if I love you, If I

662
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:03.840
<v Speaker 2>say I love you, I need you to understand that

663
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:07.519
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean we're committed. This means it I'm having a

664
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.320
<v Speaker 2>feeling of for you. So this is what the I

665
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:16.239
<v Speaker 2>love you doesn't automanically create an agreement anything.

666
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And he was at one.

667
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:23.079
<v Speaker 2>Point to say to me, I want to support your heart.

668
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:27.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm not feeling the same way you are right now. Yeah, wow,

669
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.039
<v Speaker 2>I see that, right yeah.

670
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:34.000
<v Speaker 3>And then if you either receive that is probably the

671
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:35.480
<v Speaker 3>quickest way to his heart.

672
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh, there you go.

673
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:41.119
<v Speaker 3>It would make him feel safe, right and make him

674
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:43.280
<v Speaker 3>feel like it's okay for him to feel how he's feeling,

675
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.239
<v Speaker 3>which allows, I guess probably opens up the door for

676
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.400
<v Speaker 3>him to feel that love if it's going to happen, right.

677
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:56.159
<v Speaker 2>Right, So we tend to m we make so many assumptions. Yea,

678
00:37:56.519 --> 00:38:01.400
<v Speaker 2>words and what we're saying, and so many assumptions, assumptions,

679
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>just expectations, unspoken agreements, all of these things. And I'm

680
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.719
<v Speaker 2>so I like clarity so hard that when it was

681
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.920
<v Speaker 2>obvious to everybody that we were in a relationship like

682
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.599
<v Speaker 2>five hours a day texting on the phone, what I mean,

683
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:18.119
<v Speaker 2>we'd have to have broken up, you know, I mean

684
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 2>that's a relationship, right. But I told him I need

685
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.360
<v Speaker 2>you to ask me. He's like, what do you mean?

686
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I need you to literally ask me to be in

687
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.800
<v Speaker 2>a relationship with you, because I'm not taking any assumptions

688
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.159
<v Speaker 2>here on.

689
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 1>Anything, right, All right, sure, so if we all.

690
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Got vulnerable enough to be clear and except where the

691
00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Speaker 2>other person's clarity is and not even though it's all personal.

692
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, some people say nothing's personal. That's bullshit. It's

693
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.679
<v Speaker 2>all personal, and because it's an end world, it's all

694
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:53.840
<v Speaker 2>personal and it's not.

695
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, yeah, hold both of them.

696
00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.800
<v Speaker 2>That's emotional intelligence.

697
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. You know, it's funny.

698
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:08.280
<v Speaker 3>I was very I was very vulnerable and real with her,

699
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:13.320
<v Speaker 3>but sadly my my vulnerability or my my reality probably

700
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.760
<v Speaker 3>was was challenging and messy for her. You know, I

701
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:19.760
<v Speaker 3>would just I would just say, like, yeah, I'm attracted

702
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:26.239
<v Speaker 3>other women. Of course, are like old men are you know,

703
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:27.000
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean.

704
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Like you're stating there's beautiful women.

705
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.039
<v Speaker 3>In the Yeah, like I'm totally attracted other women, you know,

706
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:35.159
<v Speaker 3>like and like so things like that.

707
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I would just at the start, I was.

708
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:40.559
<v Speaker 3>So bold in the way I would say things, and

709
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:44.320
<v Speaker 3>then it's just obviously I triggered lots of fears in her,

710
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:46.719
<v Speaker 3>and then those come up in a really heavy way,

711
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.440
<v Speaker 3>and then I pull back and then I'm not so

712
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:50.960
<v Speaker 3>willing to state.

713
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:55.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, and so you know that's an interesting thing too.

714
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.239
<v Speaker 2>So over sure is there such a thing as too

715
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 2>much information? Is there ever such such thing as over sharing?

716
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:07.440
<v Speaker 2>So here's what I would say in new relationships, if

717
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:12.559
<v Speaker 2>somebody's if somebody's insecure, and a lot of people are

718
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:14.920
<v Speaker 2>in new love and new relationships, a lot of people

719
00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:18.960
<v Speaker 2>are insecure. Very people have secure attachment styles. I mean,

720
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.599
<v Speaker 2>that's a rarity to have a secure attachment style people.

721
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.079
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, should we we want to be honest,

722
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.480
<v Speaker 2>we want to be straight up, and we also should

723
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:35.519
<v Speaker 2>calibrate it. It's an end world, right, So what does

724
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:38.599
<v Speaker 2>calibration look like? If if you spend more time talking

725
00:40:38.599 --> 00:40:41.000
<v Speaker 2>about your attraction to other people than your attraction to

726
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:44.679
<v Speaker 2>the person that you're in space with, you're doing one

727
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.519
<v Speaker 2>or two things. Hey, you're trying to tell them that

728
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:49.639
<v Speaker 2>you're not that serious about them and they need to

729
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:51.119
<v Speaker 2>be heads up. But you need to be more clear

730
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:54.559
<v Speaker 2>because that wouldn't be it. You're not ready to be

731
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:57.760
<v Speaker 2>in an exclusive anything. So you use that as a

732
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.039
<v Speaker 2>reason as a way to try to keep that boundary

733
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.840
<v Speaker 2>that was boundaries.

734
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:06.800
<v Speaker 1>That may have been It may have been carry.

735
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:08.440
<v Speaker 2>You didn't want to be sucked in. That's my feeling.

736
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:10.920
<v Speaker 2>If she came around so bold, you were trying to

737
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:11.719
<v Speaker 2>hold a line.

738
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was trying to keep keep it real, I

739
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:18.519
<v Speaker 3>guess maybe yeah, just be like look and you know,

740
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm the complex person and I don't really know

741
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 3>what I'm doing the things like that, right.

742
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And she was when she's leaning into the hard certainty,

743
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, there's there's place for uncertainty here. I'm not

744
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:33.320
<v Speaker 2>the certainty that you are, and.

745
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:34.840
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, probably defensively.

746
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, So I think that every relationship is a

747
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:45.559
<v Speaker 2>learning experience, yeah, right, and being real also needs calibration.

748
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like sometimes stuff that wants to come out

749
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>of our mouth, I don't know should it come out

750
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:49.840
<v Speaker 2>of our mouth?

751
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:55.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, that's it.

752
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's definitely one for me because you know too,

753
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:02.239
<v Speaker 2>things being like being somebody who teaches this stuff and

754
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.880
<v Speaker 2>being autistic and being you know, polymath. I can I

755
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.360
<v Speaker 2>can say some stuff that's like holy shit, really did

756
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.239
<v Speaker 2>you have to say that?

757
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:14.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Totally yeah, yeah, so.

758
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:18.559
<v Speaker 2>But I want the person that I'm with to say that,

759
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:22.920
<v Speaker 2>holy shit, Tanya, really, did you mean all that? Or

760
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:25.679
<v Speaker 2>is that really how you wanted it? To come through.

761
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:31.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, totally communication. Yeah, yeah, no, I hear it.

762
00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:34.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, my belief, which might be a naive belief,

763
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:36.719
<v Speaker 3>and the belief that I was always coming from, was

764
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:39.840
<v Speaker 3>that the capacity to be really real about all these things,

765
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:48.480
<v Speaker 3>including things that aren't like yeah edgy to me, that

766
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.400
<v Speaker 3>is that is safety, that is intimacy, that is trust.

767
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.039
<v Speaker 3>That was always my feeling of my philosophy. So if

768
00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.480
<v Speaker 3>I could openly tell her these things, like from from

769
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:03.719
<v Speaker 3>my ends, that was me and like basically telling her

770
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.840
<v Speaker 3>that I trust her and I want her to be

771
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.880
<v Speaker 3>part of the whole thing, you know, I want her

772
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:09.639
<v Speaker 3>to be intimate with me and to know my inner

773
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:13.679
<v Speaker 3>thoughts and that in a kind of way that probably

774
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 3>was a bit miscalculated, But no, I would.

775
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Say that you're probably right. I've never been met in

776
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:25.159
<v Speaker 2>my intimacy, my too much information intimacy. Nobody's ever met

777
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:27.480
<v Speaker 2>me in that space until this guy. This is the

778
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.119
<v Speaker 2>first guy that giving me as much as I'm giving

779
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 2>him of the transparency of everything. Yeah, that has created

780
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:38.719
<v Speaker 2>safety and calibration of oh my god, you are possible.

781
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Where the hell did you come from? Because yeah, sure,

782
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:47.440
<v Speaker 2>so I would agree with you that with the right person.

783
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.400
<v Speaker 2>If we all want to be seen, right, we all

784
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:59.880
<v Speaker 2>want to do except those it's the thing. So for

785
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.239
<v Speaker 2>you then crating, you can look and say I'm somebody

786
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:05.920
<v Speaker 2>who's bold. You're bold. So there's a lot of leaning

787
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>you're doing. You're leaning into the stuff. Then most people

788
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:14.079
<v Speaker 2>never go near okay, and that's your calibration and disqualifier

789
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:19.159
<v Speaker 2>or qualifiers. If somebody can't eat you in that space,

790
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:23.039
<v Speaker 2>they're not ready for that. It's not your job to

791
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:23.599
<v Speaker 2>bring them.

792
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:27.880
<v Speaker 1>There, right right, yeah, here it.

793
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:32.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, don't do that, must must go. Oh I've

794
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:34.559
<v Speaker 2>had too many hits. You know you're new. You said

795
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.480
<v Speaker 2>you're new in this. This is your first big relationship.

796
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:39.760
<v Speaker 2>So that's the newness. I'll tell you. You know at

797
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.920
<v Speaker 2>sixty three years into this, what you know many years

798
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:48.079
<v Speaker 2>into this, decades into this, that it doesn't that doesn't change.

799
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:52.320
<v Speaker 2>If you water yourself down, if you change the way

800
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.639
<v Speaker 2>you want to meet somebody. And when I say meat,

801
00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:01.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean intimacy right that meeting you're going to be

802
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:03.239
<v Speaker 2>really unhappy because that's I spent most of my life

803
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:06.119
<v Speaker 2>doing that. Somebody can't take my intensity. I operate at

804
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>ten percent of what I'm capable of for most relationships.

805
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.400
<v Speaker 2>That's really sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now I don't have

806
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:20.519
<v Speaker 2>to I'm holy you kidding me. Really, So we're all

807
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:25.599
<v Speaker 2>qualifying and disqualifying potential connections. But if you can stand

808
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in the space of being on your own, like you're

809
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:32.920
<v Speaker 2>happy with being alone, then you're not going to pick

810
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:33.760
<v Speaker 2>from desperation.

811
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:35.559
<v Speaker 1>M m.

812
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.800
<v Speaker 3>Well that's suddenly a topic i'd love to address in

813
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:40.400
<v Speaker 3>the future.

814
00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, we're going to We're coming back, so we're gonna.

815
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a lot of things around that i'd love.

816
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:51.480
<v Speaker 2>To Yeah, we're going to put a little ribbon on

817
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 2>this for this episode, and we went pretty you're pretty

818
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:58.760
<v Speaker 2>fast and Robert is brave and so I really this

819
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:01.679
<v Speaker 2>is exactly what I was hoping for. And somebody's show

820
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:05.800
<v Speaker 2>us and just you know, being able to just roll

821
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.360
<v Speaker 2>back and forth and be real with that and like

822
00:46:09.400 --> 00:46:12.239
<v Speaker 2>I said, very valuable because I can't tell you how

823
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:14.280
<v Speaker 2>many men I know that I talk to that I

824
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:17.679
<v Speaker 2>coach that are like I'm there for my woman, and

825
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:23.159
<v Speaker 2>it's a like a circus. She's a yes, she's a no,

826
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.840
<v Speaker 2>she said this, she's a that, she's like, oh, you know,

827
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.239
<v Speaker 2>all over the place. And then like I said, God knows,

828
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:31.199
<v Speaker 2>we'll get David Dida involved and everything will get sucked up.

829
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:36.800
<v Speaker 2>So anybody listening to this, that's like, I mean, Intimate

830
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Communion is a great book if you take it with

831
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a grain of salt. I mean, David Died is a misogynist.

832
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Let's get real. I mean, like we need to hear

833
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:49.800
<v Speaker 2>about that and stop thinking that somehow he is spiritually elevated. Man.

834
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:52.920
<v Speaker 3>I read Way of the Superior Man when I was

835
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:57.039
<v Speaker 3>like fifteen or something. It's really Yeah, put some bolts

836
00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:57.519
<v Speaker 3>in my head.

837
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:02.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. Yeah,

838
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:03.360
<v Speaker 2>that's right, that's right.

839
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Came around.

840
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all the all the younger men of today. I'm

841
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:10.239
<v Speaker 2>so sorry. Yeah, avoid that guy and several of the

842
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:14.320
<v Speaker 2>you know influence on Instagram that are telling you. I

843
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>have a debate for anybody that's never seen a guy

844
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:21.480
<v Speaker 2>named Zach Roady and I went toe to toe. He's

845
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:25.519
<v Speaker 2>a man who teaches men how to lead and women

846
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:30.159
<v Speaker 2>how to you know, not lead. He's his is men

847
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.159
<v Speaker 2>can't learn anything from women. I'm kind of like, what

848
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.480
<v Speaker 2>is mother not teach him anything? But that men shouldn't

849
00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.760
<v Speaker 2>be taking women's advice about it. Anyway, he threw down

850
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.480
<v Speaker 2>a gauntlet once on a Facebook wall that was like,

851
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll take on any teacher that says you know and

852
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.960
<v Speaker 2>so I of course a bunch of people said Tanya

853
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.760
<v Speaker 2>so and he put he laid it all out. You

854
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.480
<v Speaker 2>have to go live, you have to live, you know,

855
00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.079
<v Speaker 2>call it out, be live. Can't take it off your wall.

856
00:47:56.159 --> 00:48:00.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm like done, done, check check check. And on YouTube

857
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:02.519
<v Speaker 2>he took it off his wall within like I think

858
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:08.159
<v Speaker 2>three he lost fourteen thousand people in three weeks. It

859
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:12.599
<v Speaker 2>was on YouTube Zach Roady and Tiny of Diamond. But

860
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 2>and I show up in a It's It's video. I

861
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:21.559
<v Speaker 2>showed up in a lavender Kashmir sweater with a pink

862
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:26.840
<v Speaker 2>tiara freaking on and I which is like the people

863
00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:28.360
<v Speaker 2>that knew me were like, what the fuck don you

864
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.119
<v Speaker 2>And just was like, well, hey, Zach, can you show

865
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:33.840
<v Speaker 2>me how to I'm not quite sure how to do that.

866
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:36.559
<v Speaker 2>I was had my voice, I had my feminine voice going.

867
00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>It was just all like yeah, And then I just

868
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:44.199
<v Speaker 2>took him apart scientifically, like we're not interrupting each other.

869
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:46.199
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, okay, no I did. I didn't interrupt him.

870
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:47.079
<v Speaker 2>He kept interrupting me.

871
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:49.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

872
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's a lot of things out there that

873
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:53.679
<v Speaker 2>are screwing things up. I mean, we need to be

874
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:58.519
<v Speaker 2>able to be all of us understand the masculine action,

875
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.320
<v Speaker 2>masculine leaning right. Everything's very simple. It's lean in or

876
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.679
<v Speaker 2>lean out. We can take masks em and off of everything.

877
00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:12.199
<v Speaker 2>It's stand, lean in, lean out, very simple contraction expansion, right,

878
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and that if you're both standing, and if you're both

879
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:17.840
<v Speaker 2>leaning in, you're going to have a different dynamic than

880
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:20.760
<v Speaker 2>if you're both leaning out, or that you're going back

881
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:25.400
<v Speaker 2>and forth. I mean, intercourse is literally a enter out

882
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:29.239
<v Speaker 2>enter I mean like the Bay, six year of birth

883
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.960
<v Speaker 2>and everything else in the world, and playing with that

884
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:37.880
<v Speaker 2>energy even subtly. You know, I always leave every episode

885
00:49:37.880 --> 00:49:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I leave with a how to, So we're going to

886
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>wrap this in a how to. Just practice without words,

887
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:50.880
<v Speaker 2>practice the actual energetic of leaning into something and leaning out,

888
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.519
<v Speaker 2>literally with your physical body. If you're sitting talking to somebody,

889
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.079
<v Speaker 2>lean in and see what happens and what changes without

890
00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:03.360
<v Speaker 2>you saying anything different, or lean out and watch that

891
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:08.760
<v Speaker 2>dynamic change at a subconscious level, whether that's with your kids, uh,

892
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:13.119
<v Speaker 2>a friend, your lover, anything like that. Men tend to

893
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 2>want to drive in. Women want them to drive in.

894
00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:20.039
<v Speaker 2>And yet with if it's always driving in, which is

895
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:22.239
<v Speaker 2>what she was doing with you, is that masculine drive.

896
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:23.639
<v Speaker 2>This is what we need to do. We're doing this,

897
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.039
<v Speaker 2>we're doing this, we're doing this. You were trying to

898
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 2>take some of that lead, but she was a note

899
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:32.239
<v Speaker 2>of that, and so we have to be able to

900
00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:34.280
<v Speaker 2>dance back and forth. We don't all have the same

901
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:36.960
<v Speaker 2>skill sets. It's ridiculous for a man to think he

902
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:41.039
<v Speaker 2>should be leading the bookkeeping in the house when his

903
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:46.400
<v Speaker 2>partner's better at math. But it's like, oh, well, ways

904
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:47.719
<v Speaker 2>she made her. I respect him when he fucks it

905
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:48.239
<v Speaker 2>up all the time.

906
00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:52.199
<v Speaker 1>I remember this episode. You spoke about this exactly. Start

907
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:54.719
<v Speaker 1>from the top. I started from the top time, from

908
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:57.519
<v Speaker 1>episode right, and.

909
00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So that whole, that whole, it's it's like, we're going

910
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:04.000
<v Speaker 2>to respect people more when they're running their skill sets

911
00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:08.159
<v Speaker 2>and we're giving them space for that skill set. Okay,

912
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:12.880
<v Speaker 2>so practice lean in, practice lean out, Robert. I are

913
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.719
<v Speaker 2>going to come back because there's lots more fun stuff

914
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:21.280
<v Speaker 2>to unpack. And I really appreciate your vulnerability. This is

915
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:23.800
<v Speaker 2>leaned to me. Vulnerability is leaning in. If you have

916
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:27.519
<v Speaker 2>the skill set to lean into a difficult conversation, If

917
00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:30.519
<v Speaker 2>you have the skill set to hold that space for somebody,

918
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:33.119
<v Speaker 2>you might have to do that. Sorry, that's my best

919
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:35.480
<v Speaker 2>friend who's just got back from Hawaii, so she keeps

920
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.119
<v Speaker 2>trying to call me. If you have all of that

921
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:43.480
<v Speaker 2>ability to lean in and hold that space, that is

922
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.280
<v Speaker 2>a container. And it doesn't matter if it's a masculine

923
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>or feminine container. It's a container of safety. We all

924
00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:53.599
<v Speaker 2>want it, but we can reject it and be scared

925
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:55.800
<v Speaker 2>of it. But I would leave you just in case

926
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:58.559
<v Speaker 2>I die and we never get back to having another conversation.

927
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:03.159
<v Speaker 2>I would up quickly with the there's no cheese down

928
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:06.880
<v Speaker 2>that hole in this relationship.

929
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's hot to hear it, but yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

930
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:14.199
<v Speaker 2>There's more things to learn, more experiences to have, but

931
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:18.039
<v Speaker 2>you definitely need to be met in a space that

932
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:23.679
<v Speaker 2>respects and wants your biggest skill set, which is creating

933
00:52:23.719 --> 00:52:24.599
<v Speaker 2>that safe container.

934
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Thanks, Yeah, makes sense.

935
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Somebody needs to be a hell yes to that. And

936
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I guarantee you that the women that are listening are like,

937
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:35.079
<v Speaker 2>who the hell is he? Okay, and I'm gonna be.

938
00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Getting I'll tell somewhere in Australia.

939
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:40.639
<v Speaker 1>You have to find me.

940
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:44.199
<v Speaker 2>He's somewhere in Australia, just saying, you know, when everybody

941
00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:47.119
<v Speaker 2>tells me that, I got to tell.

942
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:49.199
<v Speaker 3>You that, wait until off the next episode where I

943
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:52.800
<v Speaker 3>go through the big list of all of my problems.

944
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:54.280
<v Speaker 2>There we go.

945
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Then we'll see.

946
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:58.880
<v Speaker 2>All right, I love that. So he's authentic. Here he is.

947
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.199
<v Speaker 2>He's going to say, I don't want to leave you

948
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:02.280
<v Speaker 2>with all the good stuff, only we want to make

949
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:04.079
<v Speaker 2>sure that you have all of the other stuff, like

950
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.320
<v Speaker 2>he seems to be attracted to women. Don't know what

951
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:10.840
<v Speaker 2>stuff with that, but there, oh there's a thing. So

952
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:13.840
<v Speaker 2>all right, everybody, thanks so much. We'll be back.