Speaker 1: Welcome to men sex and Tandra.
Speaker 2: Discover where your parents, porn and religion never taught you
Speaker 2: about being a man and having extraordinary sex. Get ready
Speaker 2: to have your mind blown and your world rocked.
Speaker 1: Alrighty, let's do it.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, this is something different and super exciting. Everybody
Speaker 2: I have put out a call a request. It's like, hey,
Speaker 2: if you're a dude or somebody probably a guy, you're
Speaker 2: a guy who's been listening to this show and you
Speaker 2: are brave and want to come on and you know,
Speaker 2: get coached or see what it's like to bring something
Speaker 2: to the table and get this in real time and
Speaker 2: share with everybody else what it might look like. I've
Speaker 2: had that out there for a while. I've had a
Speaker 2: few people kind of dip their to ooh ooh, dip
Speaker 2: their toe in, but they had a lot of caveats.
Speaker 2: They were like, well, don't ask me about this, and
Speaker 2: don't talk about this and whatever until dun dun dun,
Speaker 2: dun dun dum he's already laughing. Or Robert showed up
Speaker 2: and dropped into my email and was like, I'm ready
Speaker 2: to be vulnerable, honest, show up, let's do this. So
Speaker 2: Robert give us a little bit about you know, your
Speaker 2: name is Robert. You don't have to use your last name,
Speaker 2: but just give me a little bit about what. How
Speaker 2: have you been listening and what intrigued you? Why are
Speaker 2: you here.
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Well, I've only been listening for a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: and you showed up my Spotify suggestions, which I don't
Speaker 3: know how Spotify knew that I needed to listen to you.
Speaker 1: It did somehow.
Speaker 3: I hadn't even been looking up anything related to the
Speaker 3: topic either, you know, it just came up. So I
Speaker 3: just started listening a couple of weeks ago. I'd been
Speaker 3: intrigued by so Tantra or Nia Tantra for a while
Speaker 3: and feeling quiet, I guess, kind of troubled by the
Speaker 3: topic of male sexuality and what it means to be
Speaker 3: a man into how to have and hold healthy sexuality.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Dove write in. I really was quite moved
Speaker 3: by the first episode. I felt like what you guys
Speaker 3: were discussing helped me to feel quite seen. I look
Speaker 3: really quite emotionally moved by it. So after that I
Speaker 3: was like, wow, like maybe this is what I've been
Speaker 3: looking for. So I've just kind of been listening to
Speaker 3: about four.
Speaker 1: Episodes a day.
Speaker 3: Listening yeah quite literally, yeah, and really just you know,
Speaker 3: just being interested.
Speaker 1: And then I heard your call out.
Speaker 3: At some point before the call out, I was like,
Speaker 3: you know, it'd be pretty cool to get a session
Speaker 3: of time Ya at some point, maybe when I have
Speaker 3: more money or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I heard your call out and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I can do that, you know.
Speaker 3: I get I've been getting therapy for years. Either of
Speaker 3: the whole therapy practice is me learning how to be
Speaker 3: real and vulnerable with myself and with other vision with
Speaker 3: the world. I don't really have any concerns with that.
Speaker 3: I think for me, that's a path of healings. So
Speaker 3: I kind of enjoy challenging myself to be vulnerable, and
Speaker 3: I also kind of wanted to help as well. And
Speaker 3: I also just have I'm just someone that loves to
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 1: Do weird and interesting sort of experiences. I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily think that.
Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily think that you would get back to
Speaker 3: me so soon and so eagerly, but surprise.
Speaker 1: We are. Let's do it.
Speaker 3: And now, listeners, it's now six a m. And I
Speaker 3: just woke up and I'm on the podcast.
Speaker 2: So just just like that, we both showed up with
Speaker 2: questionable hair. You know. The cool thing about that is,
Speaker 2: you know, it's audio only, So I keep being asked
Speaker 2: to go to video. I'm not sure, like, is my
Speaker 2: you know, is it is my littre better audio only?
Speaker 2: Or should we do? Should I do video? Should I
Speaker 2: change it to video?
Speaker 3: I think some people do both, like some some people
Speaker 3: have videles.
Speaker 4: On thee and then could happen? Okay, first of all, awesome,
Speaker 4: Yes that you uh took action.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that a lot of men
Speaker 2: do not do that they should be doing more of
Speaker 2: is what you just did, like feeling a call or
Speaker 2: feeling a even like a thread or even that fear
Speaker 2: like this is edgy or like and jumping in thanks. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 2: So that's that's courageous action and is to me one
Speaker 2: of the more potent things a man can do to
Speaker 2: show up in the world.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 2: So you know when you said, you know this whole
Speaker 2: thing about men or whatever, what's it like? Uh? I
Speaker 2: think the society today has caused men to lean out
Speaker 2: and not lean in, when some of men's best expressions
Speaker 2: is the lean in to it and course correct on the.
Speaker 1: Go MT set a stuff back.
Speaker 2: And analyze too much and think about it too much,
Speaker 2: and do all these things too much too much. That
Speaker 2: for one, it actually lowers testosterone levels.
Speaker 1: To overthink out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know all of these men sitting back
Speaker 2: and leaning out, uh that kind of stuff. Just really
Speaker 2: walk everything down the male energy, testosterone, chemistry, everything, and
Speaker 2: so more of that lean in even if there's going
Speaker 2: to be mistakes, trusting yourself that you can course correct.
Speaker 1: Mm in the mistake. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to paint paint am inaccurate picture
Speaker 3: because I'm definitely a nervous in care about most things.
Speaker 3: It's certain things that I'm courageous on. Certain things I
Speaker 3: think around.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: Introspective kind of personal development kind of things like there,
Speaker 3: I'm a bit I can be quite ballsy, but certainly
Speaker 3: in other ways in my life in relationships, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not a leaner in a.
Speaker 3: Yeah, use those terms because my ex used to say,
Speaker 3: I just want you to lean in a little more.
Speaker 2: Some people tell me that I'm a little bit like
Speaker 2: mind reading psychic when I'm a coach. When I'm coaching, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well sure, And I felt.
Speaker 2: Like even though we didn't discuss anything about issues before this.
Speaker 2: We were just like, we jumped on it right before starting.
Speaker 2: That just was something that came to me as an
Speaker 2: important to start with. Is that whole lean in?
Speaker 1: Oh man, okay, I'm sure. So do you want me
Speaker 1: to what do you want me to say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you said that your ex was like she
Speaker 2: wanted you to lean in? Did you understand what that meant?
Speaker 2: First of all, because women say things to men all
Speaker 2: the time and men are like, uh uh this we
Speaker 2: did talk about what does it mean when you hear
Speaker 2: somebody tell you I want you to lean in? What
Speaker 2: did it mean to you?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, Well, what it meant to me. I think
Speaker 3: that she wanted me to, ah be more vulnerable in
Speaker 3: the way of investing more in the relationship.
Speaker 1: I think, so.
Speaker 3: Kind of showing my investment and kind of me being
Speaker 3: the one that pushes for deeper investment.
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's another one of those words. You know,
Speaker 2: what is that I told you about that? We're going
Speaker 2: to ever time you say something, I'm going to say,
Speaker 2: tell me more about that, Tell me more about that?
Speaker 3: So right, So, well, I think in order to explain
Speaker 3: why there's a lot of stuff around this term for me,
Speaker 3: probably just to explain the dynamic with me at my
Speaker 3: ex was.
Speaker 1: She was eight years older than me.
Speaker 3: And very much when we started dating, she very much
Speaker 3: like selected me, like you're it, okay.
Speaker 2: So she came in. She came in with the mail energy,
Speaker 2: she came in leaning in because that's a leaning.
Speaker 3: Yeah like, and she really felt that I was I
Speaker 3: was it. I was the love that she'd been looking for.
Speaker 3: Where she was was my first sort of proper relationship
Speaker 3: for first emotionally vulnerable and connected and.
Speaker 1: Invested like I guess how monongus? What was that? Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm thirty three. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So we started dating about four years ago, so for
Speaker 3: me it was quite a big deal. And for for
Speaker 3: someone to come in when I was I felt I
Speaker 3: was just ready to be the relationship.
Speaker 1: I mean I.
Speaker 3: And she really wanted it all and really felt that
Speaker 3: I was it and wanted me to tell her I
Speaker 3: loved her, and that was all these different things, and
Speaker 3: eventually that progressed to her wanting to have children with
Speaker 3: me and wanting to marry me and all these different things.
Speaker 1: And I really.
Speaker 3: Felt the need to feel safe in order to do that,
Speaker 3: particularly because it was my first time that I was
Speaker 3: in a relationship, So for me, it was always like, well,
Speaker 3: I was always bringing up fears and concerns as to why,
Speaker 3: which you know, I felt very valid, very logical years
Speaker 3: and concerns. But I think I for her, she just
Speaker 3: wanted me to feel as though I was being vulnerable
Speaker 3: and making steps so wanting to move in with her,
Speaker 3: And because I felt I couldn't because I didn't feel safe,
Speaker 3: she then didn't feel safe herself, which I think probably
Speaker 3: exacerbated her intensity. So I think when you when you
Speaker 3: talk about leaning in, I think it's hard for me
Speaker 3: to understand. Is it really I have an issue with
Speaker 3: leaning in or was it just in those circumstances that
Speaker 3: it was really scary for me in a way that
Speaker 3: was understandable.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, she came at you in her
Speaker 2: masculine so that's that's a maskul like, she did all
Speaker 2: the things she wanted you to do, and then because
Speaker 2: she took up the space, you couldn't actually do it
Speaker 2: because she dropped you into.
Speaker 1: This, I agree with you.
Speaker 3: And so that she gave me a chance to have
Speaker 3: a masculine exactly.
Speaker 2: So I look at this as and this women and
Speaker 2: oh my gosh. When I teach workshops with couples and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, I have the women raise their hand
Speaker 2: and say, I am going to step back for a moment.
Speaker 2: It's I believe we need both masculine and feminine. You know,
Speaker 2: we run both. But the reality is that woman is
Speaker 2: charging in. You are it, you are everything. Let's move in,
Speaker 2: let's have babies, let's get married. Why don't you tell
Speaker 2: me you love me? And you're like, holy shit, where do
Speaker 2: I even have space to lean in?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, I agree. That was the feeling it was.
Speaker 3: It was a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well yeah, she did it wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for val I mean, she did it.
Speaker 2: She did it wrong. And I've been there.
Speaker 1: I have been there.
Speaker 2: I'm a very strong woman myself, and I absolutely know
Speaker 2: if you know how to claim things I want and
Speaker 2: whatever else, And I've seen the destruction that does in
Speaker 2: my earlier years, where you know, if I see this
Speaker 2: many doing this thing, and I'm like, oh wow, and
Speaker 2: then I think, well, you know, women, we should be
Speaker 2: able to claim what we want, right, I mean, there's
Speaker 2: no with that. The problem came when she set the
Speaker 2: precedent of the energetic connection and then didn't inspire you,
Speaker 2: but yeah, demanded in that same energetic equation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it never felt like all of my steps
Speaker 3: never felt like enough, you know, yes, too slow basically,
Speaker 3: which made me feel like I couldn't take steps, which
Speaker 3: exactly Ma did the issue for her.
Speaker 2: Right, that was a death spiral from the start.
Speaker 3: Gosh, yeah, that's so true. That's just nice to hear
Speaker 3: you say that. It's quite a heavy experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because you know, and I just I've
Speaker 2: been posting all over Facebook about all this, but I
Speaker 2: just now got after eight years, got into a relationship
Speaker 2: and it's really interesting to watch him the experience in
Speaker 2: such a way that I really stepped back and this
Speaker 2: is not typical for me. So it was like such
Speaker 2: a juxtaposition every single thing. He escalated everything. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's what that looks like when somebody's really into and
Speaker 2: you give well, dad, but I, like so many other
Speaker 2: women want that, but don't realize we are not nourishing it.
Speaker 2: We are not literally giving it the space to breathe.
Speaker 2: Because we may know faster, we made me more intuitive,
Speaker 2: and so then we are like come on already. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's what I feel like she was impatient.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: She used to say if you didn't say that, if
Speaker 3: the couple didn't say that they loved each other in
Speaker 3: three months, then you were supposed to give me a flick?
Speaker 1: Was her philosoph listen.
Speaker 2: To all those men that the seducing dudes.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it's such a shame.
Speaker 3: It's such a shame because here I am four years
Speaker 3: later and I deeply love her, and it didn't help
Speaker 3: having that pressure.
Speaker 2: You know, well, maybe so did you? Not so in
Speaker 2: that I didn't know she was pushing How would you
Speaker 2: know what you were feeling?
Speaker 1: Say that last, but the answer she was.
Speaker 2: Pushing in so hard. How would you have known what
Speaker 2: you were actually experiencing other than her push in?
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally. And I didn't feel that I loved
Speaker 1: her when I said it.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, he was hoping that she never hears this podcast episode.
Speaker 1: Randomly and that breaks the heart.
Speaker 3: But yeah, truthfully, I didn't, But I felt it was
Speaker 3: just going to kind of appease. I had love for her,
Speaker 3: but I didn't. I wasn't in love with her. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but it was you know, it'd been three months, right.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, so she had an agenda definitely right.
Speaker 1: You know you're the one.
Speaker 2: My biological clock is ticking. Uh, you know, we've got
Speaker 2: exactly this stuff happening here, move it forward here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you don't take these steps, then you
Speaker 3: don't actually love me.
Speaker 2: Did she actually ever say that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like you obviously in love with me the
Speaker 3: way that I am with you, and you don't understand
Speaker 3: how I feel and you never felt this way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quiet and you know that's gaslighting, right.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, and I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's abusive and toxic.
Speaker 1: All right, hopefully hear that.
Speaker 2: That is not That is not a way anybody that's
Speaker 2: emotionally intelligent or mature. That's blaming, shaming and gaslighting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I appreciate hearing that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't be I mean coursing somebody into love.
Speaker 2: That's manipulation and coersion, right, and causing into loving you
Speaker 2: because you are trying to convince them that you know
Speaker 2: and feel and whatever. And I've been there, I've done
Speaker 2: these horrible things. That's why I can call it out.
Speaker 2: You know, whether that's desperate on the woman's part or
Speaker 2: whatever it is, but it's not it's not Okay, there's
Speaker 2: nothing okay about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's you know, after all these years, I
Speaker 3: have a lot of compassion for why she is and
Speaker 3: was the way she was at that time, and after
Speaker 3: all these years, I have also.
Speaker 1: Become emotionally invested.
Speaker 3: I mean, we're broken up now, but he and I
Speaker 3: we have this little dance going on.
Speaker 2: Probably trauma. It's called a trauma bond.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I fear it's a trauma bond because it's interesting
Speaker 3: because I'm like, you know, curious timing once more with
Speaker 3: this whole thing. I we spoke on the phone because
Speaker 3: she had reached out to me, suggesting that in fact
Speaker 3: now she doesn't want children and that she wants to
Speaker 3: come back to me. So we've spoken on the phone,
Speaker 3: and every time we do, I have this re encounter
Speaker 3: with these feelings of yearning and love for my connection
Speaker 3: to that, but they seem to be so disconnected with
Speaker 3: You're talking about all the gas landing and the toxicity
Speaker 3: and things like that, And at the beginning of the relationship,
Speaker 3: all I felt was the toxicity. All I felt was
Speaker 3: the pressure and not being seen and all these sorts
Speaker 3: of things. So it's interesting I have this kind of
Speaker 3: disconnection between those experiences and this sense of yes, love.
Speaker 1: And yearning that kind of comes out.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure that's probably textbook trauma Ponting's tua.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because it get used to this well, you know,
Speaker 2: and I also don't. One of the things that I'm
Speaker 2: writing a book called Uncoupling love because love shouldn't be
Speaker 2: a reason you're with somebody. I know that sounds weird.
Speaker 2: I'm actually sentimental, I'm romantic. I'm all that. But love
Speaker 2: is just one component. It's like respect being seen. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so many other because the love part. We can
Speaker 2: fall in love with people that are completely brad for us,
Speaker 2: completely wrong for us. We can we can mistake we
Speaker 2: can mistake desire for love. We can mistake comfort for love.
Speaker 2: We can mistake trauma, bonding for love, love accurate reason
Speaker 2: or you know, take if you took out, take that
Speaker 2: out for a moment, what do you have left?
Speaker 3: Take the love out? Yeah? Mmm, well, I mean on
Speaker 3: on that. An observation I've had since we broke up
Speaker 3: is recognizing that not in it sounds bad, but I
Speaker 3: never really respected her. I found that he and I
Speaker 3: probably didn't really like her personality in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3: This is a heartbreaking and scary to say on a
Speaker 3: on a podcast that people can listen to, but I I, yeah,
Speaker 3: I found her personality quite annoying and that I felt
Speaker 3: that he didn't take enough accountability, which is where the
Speaker 3: lack of respect came from.
Speaker 1: Because I'm someone.
Speaker 3: That has put so much effort into and feel like
Speaker 3: I've been so brave in that department, and to see
Speaker 3: someone that just didn't want to I didn't want to
Speaker 3: face certain things I think I could.
Speaker 1: I struggle to respect that as a kind of quality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why you weren't going down the love trail. Men,
Speaker 2: So when men are into a woman, they they're kind
Speaker 2: of Everybody says it's all visual, but it's not actually true.
Speaker 2: There's you know, there's a geometry thing. But then it's like,
Speaker 2: do they line up with my life? Do you line
Speaker 2: up with my vision of you know, would this person
Speaker 2: like I can see them in alignment with my mission
Speaker 2: and what the things I want to do, and that
Speaker 2: if you don't have like and respect, that's kind of hard.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I look first, first time, opening up my heart
Speaker 3: first relationship, I think there was a lot of not
Speaker 3: knowing that was coming along with the experiences I was
Speaker 3: having in my heart, and I also had a suspicion
Speaker 3: that I was someone that would run away from these things,
Speaker 3: being vulnerable. I've got a lot of relational trauma from
Speaker 3: my childhood, which is I think why there was such
Speaker 3: a delay for me starting and entering in a relationship.
Speaker 3: I think I just struggled to know how to connect
Speaker 3: with people in a way that would elicit that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I didn't really like or respect her.
Speaker 3: I love I had, and honestly, my love was more
Speaker 3: of a compassionate love for the longest.
Speaker 2: Time from yeah.
Speaker 3: It's which and that's hard to when you say, you know,
Speaker 3: it's toxic, she was gaslighting you. It gets a bit
Speaker 3: confused with my compassion yeah for her, because I find
Speaker 3: it difficult to just be like, yeah, she was, you
Speaker 3: know so, but.
Speaker 2: You could do well, So you know, it's as somebody
Speaker 2: who helps people change for a living, I see some
Speaker 2: of the worst of people and know that they can
Speaker 2: become the best of themselves. Well, you're as compassionate as
Speaker 2: you are. What you're doing is you were abandoned, not understood.
Speaker 2: So I'll say this is your childhood trauma abandoned, not understood.
Speaker 2: You know, you were never enough, and so what happens
Speaker 2: is then you overcompensate for other people because you're like,
Speaker 2: if somebody had just loved me enough and not done that,
Speaker 2: they could have seen me really, and so.
Speaker 3: I think you'd be this it's just funny too be
Speaker 3: the one that you're perceiving, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, you reckon. She probably
Speaker 2: had a similar kind of experience, and so you were
Speaker 2: filling that space, yes, and that's what she saw on you.
Speaker 2: So let's not get this wrong. She you you are
Speaker 2: the one because you would allow her to mold you.
Speaker 2: But then the frustration of you not showing up the
Speaker 2: way she the validation. She didn't get validation that she
Speaker 2: needed from you.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, and you know to
Speaker 3: to not let's not put all the blame on her.
Speaker 3: I came in with a basket full of problems as well,
Speaker 3: my grief case.
Speaker 2: In my grief case, yeah, well, I mean there's never
Speaker 2: one dynamic. Sure, yeah, there are plenty of men listening
Speaker 2: to us to going dude, what the fuck, Like what
Speaker 2: do you mean to Like, you didn't respect her and
Speaker 2: you were like going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds kind of fucked up. I get it.
Speaker 3: But but you know what, in the light in it,
Speaker 3: like I was disrespectful to her. It was more I
Speaker 3: just I wanted certain qualities out of a partner that
Speaker 3: I I was frustrated. Yeah, I just was like, come on,
Speaker 3: take more accountability, be more brave, you know, like let's
Speaker 3: face it. And like I felt I was doing that
Speaker 3: and she couldn't do it. And yeah, that's my skill set,
Speaker 3: is these kind of like feats of vulnerability and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, and I just wanted her to show up
Speaker 3: in that sense and then.
Speaker 1: I could be there with her.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I was doing I felt like I was
Speaker 3: doing all the heavy lifting when it came to introspection.
Speaker 2: Oh, that is leaning in. So here here's the part
Speaker 2: that was leaning in.
Speaker 1: Thank you again, that felt very valid.
Speaker 2: You were leaning into the you know, we're not perfect
Speaker 2: and this kind of sun bad things happening here, and
Speaker 2: I want to be leaning in to support the growth
Speaker 2: that we both can do. Yeah, that's leaning, and that's
Speaker 2: leaning into some of the scariest stuff.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did a lot of that, all of it
Speaker 3: basically from my perspective, all the facing it and growing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you had identified that safety was a paramount
Speaker 2: feeling for you to enter into a love space and
Speaker 2: be Yeah, you knew that there was going to be
Speaker 2: healing to be had from both parties. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: were willing to step in and do that. And the
Speaker 2: stuff she was asking was premature.
Speaker 3: To what Yeah, Yeah, she wanted she wanted me to
Speaker 3: take actions so she could feel safe. I needed to
Speaker 3: feel safe so I could I could take actions. Right,
Speaker 3: So we were and we've continued to be locked in
Speaker 3: that paradox years.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So as somebody who is the person that helps people,
Speaker 2: you know, get the safety spart, here's what I'm want
Speaker 2: to do. There's no cheese down that hole. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean by that? Don't go so a mouse
Speaker 2: goes looking for cheese down holes. Right, there is no
Speaker 2: cheese down this relationship. Hall. This is nothing you're going
Speaker 2: to fix with her. This is nothing she's going to
Speaker 2: fix with you. The is not And I'm bold enough,
Speaker 2: I'm very courageous. I help people get together and I
Speaker 2: help people break up.
Speaker 3: But I can all that dynamic you just think is
Speaker 3: not one that can be outsmarted.
Speaker 1: All.
Speaker 2: No, because you're not supposed to be a therapist. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, if she was if she had gone away
Speaker 2: and she's you know, like you guys broke up, she left,
Speaker 2: whatever it was, and you know it's two years later
Speaker 2: and she messages you and says, shit, man, I've been
Speaker 2: through like you know, I've been going to therapy and
Speaker 2: you know this women's group, and I just did all
Speaker 2: of this shit wrong. Right. If she came back in
Speaker 2: that way, would it be you know, okay to talk
Speaker 2: to her and say, well, tell me more. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: a lot of people talk a good game too. What
Speaker 2: would be the what would you have had to have
Speaker 2: seen a change, because frequently when we break up with somebody,
Speaker 2: getting back together with him is not a good idea. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: the reasons we broke up, unless it's like fifteen years later,
Speaker 2: God knows you in a union and you know everybody's different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: Well, what I feel that would be a complete game
Speaker 3: change in between her and I is just accountability.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no blame, no blame, but just her understanding.
Speaker 3: Her pardonent and the kind of I guess the maybe
Speaker 3: not consequences of the way is the word, but the
Speaker 3: implications of her parliament.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, why do you think you were it
Speaker 2: for her? I mean, first of all, you know this
Speaker 2: is audio only, but let me tell you all guys again,
Speaker 2: here I'm objectifying another man. You're going to find out
Speaker 2: that as you listen to the show. Really Robert is
Speaker 2: thirty three, he is HELLI sexy, He's a good looking man.
Speaker 2: I can tell he's smart. So he's got a lot
Speaker 2: of options out there. Thanks just saying, and so I
Speaker 2: can understand, you know, from just that purely where that
Speaker 2: she was like yes, hell yes, But what do you
Speaker 2: think what was she seeing in you that you think
Speaker 2: made her so like you're it?
Speaker 1: Hm? I mean I don't know.
Speaker 3: Obviously I'm not in her head, in her heart, but
Speaker 3: my feeling around this m because of her history. I
Speaker 3: think that she had a lot of she had a
Speaker 3: lot of sexual trauma, and she was actually I mean no,
Speaker 3: maybe I won't say this. This isn't because me vulnerable.
Speaker 2: You can keep yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I yeah, she had a lot of sexual trauma.
Speaker 3: And the kind of people that she dated in the
Speaker 3: past were like drug dealers, like you know, kind of
Speaker 3: bad boy archetypes, people with a lot of money, but
Speaker 3: like who were probably quite emotionally disconnected.
Speaker 1: I'll promote.
Speaker 3: Well, I understand there are decent men in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways, but they are you know, came with all
Speaker 3: of it disconnection and issues, and then I came along
Speaker 3: and I feel as though, I, yeah, I'm introspective, you know,
Speaker 3: emotionally intelligent and sweet, you know, sweet and about to.
Speaker 2: Say so the sweet in general. So what she did
Speaker 2: is swung from men who lean and really are and
Speaker 2: take what they want to a guy who's stepped back
Speaker 2: and just sitting back here in the suite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she used to call me my nickname. My nickname
Speaker 3: from her was sweet Potato.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so for her to go from that that
Speaker 2: juxtae session was also going to be really difficult because
Speaker 2: what she wants is that other things she wanted you
Speaker 2: to become you to be the safe sweet potato you are,
Speaker 2: but then take the vibe. Then get to the take.
Speaker 3: Vibe totally, whereas I just stayed. But also like you know,
Speaker 3: sweet potato, but also like the the dark side of
Speaker 3: sweet Potato is like like, uh, you know, I brought
Speaker 3: in a lot of things that I think she didn't expect.
Speaker 3: Like I think she she saw the love in me, right,
Speaker 3: Like I have the capacity to have compassion, have love,
Speaker 3: and to see someone. And I saw I saw her,
Speaker 3: and I like held space for that and was gentle.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what she was always yearned for
Speaker 3: because of her trauma, right, And I gave her that,
Speaker 3: but I didn't give the whole package, probably of what
Speaker 3: if she was seeking. And I always felt that kind
Speaker 3: of paradox in terms of what I felt that she
Speaker 3: wanted from me, Like she wanted me to be sweet
Speaker 3: and gentle, but then when.
Speaker 2: I tried to the couch and then bang couch.
Speaker 3: But I wasn't just that, Like I felt like I
Speaker 3: had a lot of qualities that weren't sweet and weren't gentle.
Speaker 3: And I also, my whole journey has been trying to
Speaker 3: embody masculinely and understand and every time I tried to
Speaker 3: do that in any capacity, it felt like she pushed
Speaker 3: her away because I mean, look, I'm able to speak
Speaker 3: of this because I've gotten a lot of therapy of
Speaker 3: last and tried to unpack it. But I felt that
Speaker 3: her wounds were from the masculine, so.
Speaker 1: She would push back on that a lot.
Speaker 3: You know, I felt like I couldn't you know, even
Speaker 3: a healthy version, even even a healthier.
Speaker 1: Version of masculinity.
Speaker 3: She really rejected it seemed or made it very very
Speaker 3: difficult for me to explore or to kind of get to.
Speaker 1: She just want to sweep to tether.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then she didn't, you know exactly. So it's
Speaker 2: like that, And you know what, I'm loving this conversation, Robert.
Speaker 2: There are so many men that are caught what I
Speaker 2: consider really good men, caught in this really weird dynamic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, taking their power back. Wow, whatever that looks like, right,
Speaker 2: So taking their power back. They want safety, but they
Speaker 2: still want the other thing. I think I wrote a
Speaker 2: Facebook post on at the paradox of like a woman
Speaker 2: who wants safety and that rogue, you know, like how
Speaker 2: to and and what the heck does a man like do? Like,
Speaker 2: because are you supposed to read the mind? Like, so,
Speaker 2: when is it you want me to be your girlfriend
Speaker 2: and be safe and hold you here and cuddle up
Speaker 2: and watch chick Flix? And when is it that you
Speaker 2: want me to bang you on the back of the
Speaker 2: couch like riot?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's hardly yeah, And it eventually got to the
Speaker 3: point where obviously the ladder didn't happen and there was
Speaker 3: no room for that to happen, and every time I
Speaker 3: tried to make it happen, I was doing it wrong.
Speaker 3: Regardless I didn't read, regardless of how much work and
Speaker 3: how much safety and all this stuff I tried to
Speaker 3: create around it, you know.
Speaker 1: And then look, this is a little bit of event.
Speaker 3: But then and this is also I shouldn't have done this,
Speaker 3: but she used to leave her diary just on the
Speaker 3: on the kits encounter.
Speaker 1: Just leave it there, you know.
Speaker 2: If she was leaving her diary on the kitchen counter,
Speaker 2: she was helping you.
Speaker 1: Buck.
Speaker 3: Everyone said that, which makes which deepens the wound. That
Speaker 3: really deepens the wound.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 3: Anyway, so I I go and flicking through it, and
Speaker 3: I come across a page which the text was that
Speaker 3: she resents my lack of massive She's really put off
Speaker 3: by my lack of masculinity, is what she said. And yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that was really really difficult and painful to hear
Speaker 3: because it felt like I couldn't be that. I couldn't
Speaker 3: you know, there was no there was no room for
Speaker 3: me to even begin to explore that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, painful.
Speaker 2: Well this is this is you're not alone, and that
Speaker 2: this is going to be so valuable because there's so
Speaker 2: many men that I consider really good men going through
Speaker 2: this very thing, right, Yeah, and most women. So here's
Speaker 2: something that a lot of people don't know. So one
Speaker 2: can go along and be like seemingly together and then
Speaker 2: get into what a safe relationship is and then totally
Speaker 2: fall apart. Her sexual trauma will come up. So in fact,
Speaker 2: the more safe she is in the relationship, the more
Speaker 2: the trauma is ready to be born.
Speaker 1: Right. I noticed that.
Speaker 3: It's interesting she came in hyper sexual and then flip,
Speaker 3: And then I feel like the moment we connected flip
Speaker 3: to hyper sexuality kind of like which you mind saying,
Speaker 3: is like a kind of classic someone with sexual trauma
Speaker 3: kind of behavior.
Speaker 2: Yeah, either hypo or hyper and then the hard flip
Speaker 2: when they feel emotionally more safe because a lot of time,
Speaker 2: if the woman is hyper sexual, her trauma is tied
Speaker 2: up with anxiety. Yeah, you create safety, that anxiety goes away.
Speaker 2: She gets turned off and gets angry and bitchy, and
Speaker 2: she wants you to step into that masculine unsafe space.
Speaker 2: But she didn't pick the unsafe man exactly. How the
Speaker 2: hell do you even do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Totally, Yeah, so.
Speaker 2: You're not crazy.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2: You were probably all this the right.
Speaker 3: And you know what it really, you know, beautiful mirror though,
Speaker 3: like a really exquisite mirror from the universe, because it
Speaker 3: really highlighted and emphasized I guess my I guess issues
Speaker 3: around those topics. But it's made me feel it's really
Speaker 3: put the spotlight on I guess that part within me
Speaker 3: that isn't doesn't feel embodied in my masculine or well
Speaker 3: as my own has my owntot around sexuality, you know,
Speaker 3: isn't able to create safety, isn't able to lead, and
Speaker 3: just that whole I don't know, cheeseboards, using.
Speaker 1: Cheese analogies, cheese analogy.
Speaker 3: Of stuff relating to my masculinity in the world, and
Speaker 3: how I just don't feel I have any of them things.
Speaker 2: Nice, any of them things well, I think, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's like what and we explore this and a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of topics come back, you know, in
Speaker 2: this whole show about this idea of like you know,
Speaker 2: what is man and what is uh? You know, all
Speaker 2: of you and it's it's like if and then there's
Speaker 2: people like David Dida and all these fuck boys and
Speaker 2: all these.
Speaker 1: I hear you bring up David Dita because he probably fund.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he fucked a lot of people up. I just
Speaker 2: I just tell you because I think that I think
Speaker 2: that it's not a one thing. We shouldn't be all
Speaker 2: leading or all submitting or all that. It shouldn't be
Speaker 2: like that. So for women who get lured into the
Speaker 2: Neo Tatra stuff or the David Dydas stuff, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna not feel safe until you step up
Speaker 2: and make me feel safe, It's like, where the fuck
Speaker 2: is your personal accountability? I will take women down when
Speaker 2: I hear that shit. I'm like, first of all, we
Speaker 2: all create safety within ourselves. The first person I need
Speaker 2: to trust is myself, right, and both parties have to
Speaker 2: show up to be vulnerable. I mean, if we're both
Speaker 2: waiting for each other to be safe enough to vulneral,
Speaker 2: nobody's doing shit. We're all just going, well, you go, no,
Speaker 2: you go. I love you. I told my new guy, like, hey,
Speaker 2: if I you know if I love you, If I
Speaker 2: say I love you, I need you to understand that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean we're committed. This means it I'm having a
Speaker 2: feeling of for you. So this is what the I
Speaker 2: love you doesn't automanically create an agreement anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he was at one.
Speaker 2: Point to say to me, I want to support your heart.
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling the same way you are right now. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: I see that, right yeah.
Speaker 3: And then if you either receive that is probably the
Speaker 3: quickest way to his heart.
Speaker 1: Oh, there you go.
Speaker 3: It would make him feel safe, right and make him
Speaker 3: feel like it's okay for him to feel how he's feeling,
Speaker 3: which allows, I guess probably opens up the door for
Speaker 3: him to feel that love if it's going to happen, right.
Speaker 2: Right, So we tend to m we make so many assumptions. Yea,
Speaker 2: words and what we're saying, and so many assumptions, assumptions,
Speaker 2: just expectations, unspoken agreements, all of these things. And I'm
Speaker 2: so I like clarity so hard that when it was
Speaker 2: obvious to everybody that we were in a relationship like
Speaker 2: five hours a day texting on the phone, what I mean,
Speaker 2: we'd have to have broken up, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: that's a relationship, right. But I told him I need
Speaker 2: you to ask me. He's like, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: I need you to literally ask me to be in
Speaker 2: a relationship with you, because I'm not taking any assumptions
Speaker 2: here on.
Speaker 1: Anything, right, All right, sure, so if we all.
Speaker 2: Got vulnerable enough to be clear and except where the
Speaker 2: other person's clarity is and not even though it's all personal.
Speaker 2: You know, some people say nothing's personal. That's bullshit. It's
Speaker 2: all personal, and because it's an end world, it's all
Speaker 2: personal and it's not.
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, hold both of them.
Speaker 2: That's emotional intelligence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. You know, it's funny.
Speaker 3: I was very I was very vulnerable and real with her,
Speaker 3: but sadly my my vulnerability or my my reality probably
Speaker 3: was was challenging and messy for her. You know, I
Speaker 3: would just I would just say, like, yeah, I'm attracted
Speaker 3: other women. Of course, are like old men are you know,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like you're stating there's beautiful women.
Speaker 3: In the Yeah, like I'm totally attracted other women, you know,
Speaker 3: like and like so things like that.
Speaker 1: I would just at the start, I was.
Speaker 3: So bold in the way I would say things, and
Speaker 3: then it's just obviously I triggered lots of fears in her,
Speaker 3: and then those come up in a really heavy way,
Speaker 3: and then I pull back and then I'm not so
Speaker 3: willing to state.
Speaker 2: Well, and so you know that's an interesting thing too.
Speaker 2: So over sure is there such a thing as too
Speaker 2: much information? Is there ever such such thing as over sharing?
Speaker 2: So here's what I would say in new relationships, if
Speaker 2: somebody's if somebody's insecure, and a lot of people are
Speaker 2: in new love and new relationships, a lot of people
Speaker 2: are insecure. Very people have secure attachment styles. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's a rarity to have a secure attachment style people.
Speaker 2: And so you know, should we we want to be honest,
Speaker 2: we want to be straight up, and we also should
Speaker 2: calibrate it. It's an end world, right, So what does
Speaker 2: calibration look like? If if you spend more time talking
Speaker 2: about your attraction to other people than your attraction to
Speaker 2: the person that you're in space with, you're doing one
Speaker 2: or two things. Hey, you're trying to tell them that
Speaker 2: you're not that serious about them and they need to
Speaker 2: be heads up. But you need to be more clear
Speaker 2: because that wouldn't be it. You're not ready to be
Speaker 2: in an exclusive anything. So you use that as a
Speaker 2: reason as a way to try to keep that boundary
Speaker 2: that was boundaries.
Speaker 1: That may have been It may have been carry.
Speaker 2: You didn't want to be sucked in. That's my feeling.
Speaker 2: If she came around so bold, you were trying to
Speaker 2: hold a line.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was trying to keep keep it real, I
Speaker 3: guess maybe yeah, just be like look and you know,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm the complex person and I don't really know
Speaker 3: what I'm doing the things like that, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she was when she's leaning into the hard certainty,
Speaker 2: you're saying, there's there's place for uncertainty here. I'm not
Speaker 2: the certainty that you are, and.
Speaker 1: So yeah, probably defensively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I think that every relationship is a
Speaker 2: learning experience, yeah, right, and being real also needs calibration.
Speaker 2: I mean, like sometimes stuff that wants to come out
Speaker 2: of our mouth, I don't know should it come out
Speaker 2: of our mouth?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely one for me because you know too,
Speaker 2: things being like being somebody who teaches this stuff and
Speaker 2: being autistic and being you know, polymath. I can I
Speaker 2: can say some stuff that's like holy shit, really did
Speaker 2: you have to say that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Totally yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 2: But I want the person that I'm with to say that,
Speaker 2: holy shit, Tanya, really, did you mean all that? Or
Speaker 2: is that really how you wanted it? To come through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally communication. Yeah, yeah, no, I hear it.
Speaker 3: You know, my belief, which might be a naive belief,
Speaker 3: and the belief that I was always coming from, was
Speaker 3: that the capacity to be really real about all these things,
Speaker 3: including things that aren't like yeah edgy to me, that
Speaker 3: is that is safety, that is intimacy, that is trust.
Speaker 3: That was always my feeling of my philosophy. So if
Speaker 3: I could openly tell her these things, like from from
Speaker 3: my ends, that was me and like basically telling her
Speaker 3: that I trust her and I want her to be
Speaker 3: part of the whole thing, you know, I want her
Speaker 3: to be intimate with me and to know my inner
Speaker 3: thoughts and that in a kind of way that probably
Speaker 3: was a bit miscalculated, But no, I would.
Speaker 2: Say that you're probably right. I've never been met in
Speaker 2: my intimacy, my too much information intimacy. Nobody's ever met
Speaker 2: me in that space until this guy. This is the
Speaker 2: first guy that giving me as much as I'm giving
Speaker 2: him of the transparency of everything. Yeah, that has created
Speaker 2: safety and calibration of oh my god, you are possible.
Speaker 2: Where the hell did you come from? Because yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: so I would agree with you that with the right person.
Speaker 2: If we all want to be seen, right, we all
Speaker 2: want to do except those it's the thing. So for
Speaker 2: you then crating, you can look and say I'm somebody
Speaker 2: who's bold. You're bold. So there's a lot of leaning
Speaker 2: you're doing. You're leaning into the stuff. Then most people
Speaker 2: never go near okay, and that's your calibration and disqualifier
Speaker 2: or qualifiers. If somebody can't eat you in that space,
Speaker 2: they're not ready for that. It's not your job to
Speaker 2: bring them.
Speaker 1: There, right right, yeah, here it.
Speaker 2: You know, don't do that, must must go. Oh I've
Speaker 2: had too many hits. You know you're new. You said
Speaker 2: you're new in this. This is your first big relationship.
Speaker 2: So that's the newness. I'll tell you. You know at
Speaker 2: sixty three years into this, what you know many years
Speaker 2: into this, decades into this, that it doesn't that doesn't change.
Speaker 2: If you water yourself down, if you change the way
Speaker 2: you want to meet somebody. And when I say meat,
Speaker 2: I mean intimacy right that meeting you're going to be
Speaker 2: really unhappy because that's I spent most of my life
Speaker 2: doing that. Somebody can't take my intensity. I operate at
Speaker 2: ten percent of what I'm capable of for most relationships.
Speaker 2: That's really sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now I don't have
Speaker 2: to I'm holy you kidding me. Really, So we're all
Speaker 2: qualifying and disqualifying potential connections. But if you can stand
Speaker 2: in the space of being on your own, like you're
Speaker 2: happy with being alone, then you're not going to pick
Speaker 2: from desperation.
Speaker 1: M m.
Speaker 3: Well that's suddenly a topic i'd love to address in
Speaker 3: the future.
Speaker 2: Well, we're going to We're coming back, so we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of things around that i'd love.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, we're going to put a little ribbon on
Speaker 2: this for this episode, and we went pretty you're pretty
Speaker 2: fast and Robert is brave and so I really this
Speaker 2: is exactly what I was hoping for. And somebody's show
Speaker 2: us and just you know, being able to just roll
Speaker 2: back and forth and be real with that and like
Speaker 2: I said, very valuable because I can't tell you how
Speaker 2: many men I know that I talk to that I
Speaker 2: coach that are like I'm there for my woman, and
Speaker 2: it's a like a circus. She's a yes, she's a no,
Speaker 2: she said this, she's a that, she's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: all over the place. And then like I said, God knows,
Speaker 2: we'll get David Dida involved and everything will get sucked up.
Speaker 2: So anybody listening to this, that's like, I mean, Intimate
Speaker 2: Communion is a great book if you take it with
Speaker 2: a grain of salt. I mean, David Died is a misogynist.
Speaker 2: Let's get real. I mean, like we need to hear
Speaker 2: about that and stop thinking that somehow he is spiritually elevated. Man.
Speaker 3: I read Way of the Superior Man when I was
Speaker 3: like fifteen or something. It's really Yeah, put some bolts
Speaker 3: in my head.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: Came around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the all the younger men of today. I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry. Yeah, avoid that guy and several of the
Speaker 2: you know influence on Instagram that are telling you. I
Speaker 2: have a debate for anybody that's never seen a guy
Speaker 2: named Zach Roady and I went toe to toe. He's
Speaker 2: a man who teaches men how to lead and women
Speaker 2: how to you know, not lead. He's his is men
Speaker 2: can't learn anything from women. I'm kind of like, what
Speaker 2: is mother not teach him anything? But that men shouldn't
Speaker 2: be taking women's advice about it. Anyway, he threw down
Speaker 2: a gauntlet once on a Facebook wall that was like,
Speaker 2: I'll take on any teacher that says you know and
Speaker 2: so I of course a bunch of people said Tanya
Speaker 2: so and he put he laid it all out. You
Speaker 2: have to go live, you have to live, you know,
Speaker 2: call it out, be live. Can't take it off your wall.
Speaker 2: I'm like done, done, check check check. And on YouTube
Speaker 2: he took it off his wall within like I think
Speaker 2: three he lost fourteen thousand people in three weeks. It
Speaker 2: was on YouTube Zach Roady and Tiny of Diamond. But
Speaker 2: and I show up in a It's It's video. I
Speaker 2: showed up in a lavender Kashmir sweater with a pink
Speaker 2: tiara freaking on and I which is like the people
Speaker 2: that knew me were like, what the fuck don you
Speaker 2: And just was like, well, hey, Zach, can you show
Speaker 2: me how to I'm not quite sure how to do that.
Speaker 2: I was had my voice, I had my feminine voice going.
Speaker 2: It was just all like yeah, And then I just
Speaker 2: took him apart scientifically, like we're not interrupting each other.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, no I did. I didn't interrupt him.
Speaker 2: He kept interrupting me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot of things out there that
Speaker 2: are screwing things up. I mean, we need to be
Speaker 2: able to be all of us understand the masculine action,
Speaker 2: masculine leaning right. Everything's very simple. It's lean in or
Speaker 2: lean out. We can take masks em and off of everything.
Speaker 2: It's stand, lean in, lean out, very simple contraction expansion, right,
Speaker 2: and that if you're both standing, and if you're both
Speaker 2: leaning in, you're going to have a different dynamic than
Speaker 2: if you're both leaning out, or that you're going back
Speaker 2: and forth. I mean, intercourse is literally a enter out
Speaker 2: enter I mean like the Bay, six year of birth
Speaker 2: and everything else in the world, and playing with that
Speaker 2: energy even subtly. You know, I always leave every episode
Speaker 2: I leave with a how to, So we're going to
Speaker 2: wrap this in a how to. Just practice without words,
Speaker 2: practice the actual energetic of leaning into something and leaning out,
Speaker 2: literally with your physical body. If you're sitting talking to somebody,
Speaker 2: lean in and see what happens and what changes without
Speaker 2: you saying anything different, or lean out and watch that
Speaker 2: dynamic change at a subconscious level, whether that's with your kids, uh,
Speaker 2: a friend, your lover, anything like that. Men tend to
Speaker 2: want to drive in. Women want them to drive in.
Speaker 2: And yet with if it's always driving in, which is
Speaker 2: what she was doing with you, is that masculine drive.
Speaker 2: This is what we need to do. We're doing this,
Speaker 2: we're doing this, we're doing this. You were trying to
Speaker 2: take some of that lead, but she was a note
Speaker 2: of that, and so we have to be able to
Speaker 2: dance back and forth. We don't all have the same
Speaker 2: skill sets. It's ridiculous for a man to think he
Speaker 2: should be leading the bookkeeping in the house when his
Speaker 2: partner's better at math. But it's like, oh, well, ways
Speaker 2: she made her. I respect him when he fucks it
Speaker 2: up all the time.
Speaker 1: I remember this episode. You spoke about this exactly. Start
Speaker 1: from the top. I started from the top time, from
Speaker 1: episode right, and.
Speaker 2: So that whole, that whole, it's it's like, we're going
Speaker 2: to respect people more when they're running their skill sets
Speaker 2: and we're giving them space for that skill set. Okay,
Speaker 2: so practice lean in, practice lean out, Robert. I are
Speaker 2: going to come back because there's lots more fun stuff
Speaker 2: to unpack. And I really appreciate your vulnerability. This is
Speaker 2: leaned to me. Vulnerability is leaning in. If you have
Speaker 2: the skill set to lean into a difficult conversation, If
Speaker 2: you have the skill set to hold that space for somebody,
Speaker 2: you might have to do that. Sorry, that's my best
Speaker 2: friend who's just got back from Hawaii, so she keeps
Speaker 2: trying to call me. If you have all of that
Speaker 2: ability to lean in and hold that space, that is
Speaker 2: a container. And it doesn't matter if it's a masculine
Speaker 2: or feminine container. It's a container of safety. We all
Speaker 2: want it, but we can reject it and be scared
Speaker 2: of it. But I would leave you just in case
Speaker 2: I die and we never get back to having another conversation.
Speaker 2: I would up quickly with the there's no cheese down
Speaker 2: that hole in this relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hot to hear it, but yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: There's more things to learn, more experiences to have, but
Speaker 2: you definitely need to be met in a space that
Speaker 2: respects and wants your biggest skill set, which is creating
Speaker 2: that safe container.
Speaker 1: Thanks, Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 2: Somebody needs to be a hell yes to that. And
Speaker 2: I guarantee you that the women that are listening are like,
Speaker 2: who the hell is he? Okay, and I'm gonna be.
Speaker 3: Getting I'll tell somewhere in Australia.
Speaker 1: You have to find me.
Speaker 2: He's somewhere in Australia, just saying, you know, when everybody
Speaker 2: tells me that, I got to tell.
Speaker 3: You that, wait until off the next episode where I
Speaker 3: go through the big list of all of my problems.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: Then we'll see.
Speaker 2: All right, I love that. So he's authentic. Here he is.
Speaker 2: He's going to say, I don't want to leave you
Speaker 2: with all the good stuff, only we want to make
Speaker 2: sure that you have all of the other stuff, like
Speaker 2: he seems to be attracted to women. Don't know what
Speaker 2: stuff with that, but there, oh there's a thing. So
Speaker 2: all right, everybody, thanks so much. We'll be back.