WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.160 Oh hey, it's the sweatshirt that you will never get 2 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:05.679 back from them. Ali Ward and I have wanted to 3 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:08.480 cover secret codes and cryptology for years and years, and 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:12.359 I thought, one day I'll go to Maryland and interview 5 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:16.640 someone at the National Cryptologic Museum. And then I realized 6 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.440 that it's run by the National Security Agency, and I 7 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:21.559 was like, they're going to be tight lipped. They're not 8 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:23.519 going to give it the goods. So then a little 9 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.719 more digging unearthed a better, more perfect guest, the guy 10 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:31.359 who wrote the literal book on code breaking, titled The 11 00:00:31.399 --> 00:00:35.359 Code Book, The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to 12 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:40.960 Quantum Cryptography Done. He's in. He's a PhD theoretical particle 13 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.479 physicist by training, an author by trade now and has 14 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.119 worked at CERN and the BBC even made a BAFTA 15 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:53.439 winning documentary about a mathematician called Furma's Last Theorem. He's 16 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.200 also the author of the Book's Big Bang, The Origin 17 00:00:56.240 --> 00:01:00.280 of the Universe, and the Simpsons and their Mathematical Secrets. 18 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.359 So much about the function and history of secret ciphers 19 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:09.400 and code breaking, and has several additional honorary degrees. And 20 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:12.359 he joined the video chat with a salt and pepper 21 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.640 mohawk and for some reason, a mic in earbuds that 22 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:20.359 refuse to play ball with our recording software Enigmatic. Indeed, 23 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:24.879 so our first introduction was amid an absolutely horrific amount 24 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.799 of tech gifts, and I was pretty sure he hated me. 25 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:31.400 Thank you for spending a half hour troubleshooting. I swear 26 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:35.840 that is not typical at all. 27 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:37.840 No, no, no, these things happen. 28 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.920 Well, look at that, brilliant and forgiving. So let's get 29 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:43.920 to this great conbo. But first, thank you so much 30 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:45.799 to all the patrons who support the show at patreon 31 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:47.879 dot com, slash ologies, where you can join for a 32 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:51.000 simple dollar a month and submit your questions ahead of time. 33 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.760 Thank you to everyone who is buying and wearing Ologies 34 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.840 merch from ologiesmerch dot com, where we have some lovely 35 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:59.719 shirts and stuff. Thank you to everyone who leaves reviews 36 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.799 for me to read and as proof that I do 37 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:04.680 read them. They help so much. Thank you to Jen 38 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:08.719 GM seventeen who wrote longtime Knowledge I hear I still 39 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:13.000 cannot get enough. And for anyone complaining about explicit It's 40 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.400 in the description, so check out smologies instead. Jen GM 41 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.319 zero seventeen, Thank you for reminding listeners that yes, we 42 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.000 have a g rated and we have shortened episodes are 43 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:27.240 called smologies. They're in their own feed wherever you get podcasts, 44 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:29.240 they're linked in the show notes. Look at that A 45 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.439 review and a reminder about smologies. All it wants perfect, okay, 46 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:36.400 But for now, enjoy this full length conversation about slip ups, 47 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.879 that lost wars, the cracking of the Enigma machine, hog 48 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:45.319 Latin pigpen ciphers, the prison plots of Mary Queen of Scott's, 49 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.080 a code breaking reality show that I wish existed, Indigenous 50 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:53.479 code talking war heroes, hiding messages in your skin and guts. 51 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.560 Plus one method that's a hole ball of wax you 52 00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:59.280 might not want to get into, Hidden treasure, a quantum 53 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.240 computing apot clips, and a sketchbook that has puzzled people 54 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:07.039 for nearly a thousand years with mathematics enthusiast, best selling author, 55 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:12.199 award winning filmmaker and secret code expert and cryptologist Simon Singh. 56 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:35.520 So cryptology. We obviously we've never done this topic. That's 57 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.159 how it works here. But I know very little about code, 58 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.919 but you've written an entire book on it, and I'm 59 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:48.759 curious why cryptology? What caused you to research and go 60 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.879 back to the history of cryptology and do a steep 61 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:53.280 a dive. 62 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.960 So two reasons. Really, I'd written a book. My first 63 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.960 book was called Fermat's Last Theorem or Ferma's and Nick 64 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.120 I think it was called in America, and it was 65 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.000 the story of the world's most notorious maths problem, and 66 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.360 it was a three hundred and fifty year old romp 67 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:12.120 through mathematics. And somewhere in there was the story of 68 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:15.879 cryptography during the Second World War, particularly Alan Turing, the 69 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:20.519 British mathematician who cracked the Enigma code, and his story 70 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:23.759 and the story of cryptography and how it changed the 71 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:26.040 course of the Second World War was something I just 72 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.600 wanted to explore more So, what was a few paragraphs 73 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.639 in Fermar's Enigma turned out to be a whole chapter 74 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:36.360 in the Codebook. And also previously I'd been working on 75 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:40.000 a TV show in the UK called Tomorrow's World, and 76 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:42.439 every week it was a magazine show, so every week 77 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.399 we were going through lots of different science and technology stories, 78 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.240 and each week I'd come up with a story about 79 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.480 codes or code breaking or you know, the Internet was 80 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:53.759 kind of just beginning to take off. So these were 81 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.879 really important and interesting stories. They weren't very visual, so 82 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:03.040 my TV editor never never accepted my cryptography stories. But 83 00:05:03.079 --> 00:05:04.759 I had a whole folder full of them, and I 84 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.600 could see that cryptography was more important today than ever before. 85 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.360 And so you have this topic with a fantastically long 86 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.279 history and something which you know. We live in the 87 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:18.000 information age today and the way you protect information is 88 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.319 not really by locking up in a safe. You do 89 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:21.759 it by locking it up with a code. 90 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.480 Were you always a maths person? 91 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.160 Yeah, I was. I'm a physicist by training, but if 92 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.560 you want to do physics, you have to be a mathematician. 93 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.120 And as a science journalist, I was covering all sorts 94 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:35.959 of different things for tomorrow's world. So I have a 95 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.839 broad interest. And the interesting thing about cryptography is it 96 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:44.079 is very mathematical, particularly today, but it's also about linguistics. 97 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:46.800 It's also about all sorts of different things. So as 98 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.639 a writer, it's lovely to have a topic which ranges 99 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:51.959 so broadly. And it was one of the tricky things 100 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.439 about writing the book was you know, which parts of 101 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:56.560 history do you focus on, Which parts of the globe 102 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:57.360 do you focus on? 103 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.240 So Simon's book The Code Book The Science of Secrecy 104 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.839 from Ancient Egypt to quantum cryptography is highly lauded and 105 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:09.839 four hundred and thirty two pages. And yet were you 106 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:13.560 absolutely heartbroken at having certain chapters or pieces that you 107 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:15.759 just had to cut out or else it would be 108 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.680 like a book of biblical proportions. 109 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:23.399 Yeah. Absolutely, no, there were huge chunks that got thrown at. 110 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:28.160 I was fascinated by the decryption of ancient languages, so 111 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.800 something like hieroglyphs. You know, decryption of hieroglyphs is an 112 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.720 extraordinary story. And unless you can read hieroglyphs, you can't 113 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:39.040 really read into the history of the Egyptians. It's a 114 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:41.560 lost story unless you can read their texts. 115 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.160 Just a side note if you're into hieroglyphs. We have 116 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:47.920 an Egyptology episode as well as a Mammiology episode about 117 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:51.759 mummies with Egyptologist doctor Kara Cooney. Oh, we also have 118 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:55.879 a Curiology episode about emoji and what they mean depending 119 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.399 on who uses them in their similarities and major differences 120 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:01.800 to higher so we'll link those in the show notes. 121 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:05.199 But yeah, let's talk ancient codes and language. Are they 122 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:05.600 the same? 123 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:09.079 Simon says, and I had chapters also about the Mayan 124 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:12.040 codes and so on. But you know what, it's not 125 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.199 really a code. It's not a you know, a code 126 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:20.439 for me is where you deliberately obfuscate the meaning of something. 127 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.279 So I'm sending you a secret message. I don't want 128 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.279 anybody else in the world to read it, so I 129 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:29.240 encrypt it so only you and I can read the message. Now, 130 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.480 Egyptian hieroglyphs were not a code in that sense. They 131 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.560 were written as a form of communication, and it's just 132 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:37.439 that we've forgotten how to read them. So you have 133 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:40.759 to use code breaking techniques to read hieroglyphs to crack 134 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.079 the code. But it wasn't ever meant to be a code. 135 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.680 The same with Morse code, for example. Morse code is 136 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.319 not a secret way of communication. It's an efficient way 137 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.360 of communication for the telegraph. We didn't have to crack 138 00:07:53.560 --> 00:07:55.720 the Morse code. We knew how it all worked. But 139 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.319 the use of the word code in most of the 140 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.920 things I write about things which were hidden that the 141 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.480 meaning has been hidden from the reader, from the reader 142 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:06.120 who's not supposed to be spying. 143 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:09.000 I was wondering because that was my first question, what's 144 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:11.519 the difference between a code and a language is language 145 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:15.920 meant to communicate, code is essentially meant to not communicate. 146 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.279 Is that like a chief distinguishing difference. 147 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:21.120 Yeah, I think that's a good way of putting it. 148 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:24.879 And today encryption goes beyond just hiding the meaning of 149 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.279 a message. So for example, I might send you a 150 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:29.560 secret message and I don't want anybody else to read it. 151 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:33.720 That's a traditional form of encryption. But sometimes I want 152 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.360 to make sure that you've read it and you can't 153 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:40.000 deny that you didn't read it, so that's important as well. 154 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.519 And sometimes I want to guarantee that I sent the 155 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:45.320 message so that you know you can't accuse me later 156 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.279 on of not sending you the message. And sometimes I 157 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.200 want to make sure that not only do you get 158 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.200 the message, but nobody changed it on the way. So 159 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:58.159 if you imagine voting in an election, I want to 160 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:00.960 make sure that you know I cast my vote. I 161 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.440 want to make sure that you can't deny that you 162 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.919 didn't receive the vote. I want to make sure the 163 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.679 vote wasn't changed, and I want to make sure the 164 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:13.679 vote is secret. So today we have different aspects to cryptography, 165 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:16.120 all of which are important in different situations. 166 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:21.399 I'm curious how far back you found then it goes? 167 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:25.000 And is that a philosophical question? Is there anything to 168 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.559 suggest in the development of language that at some point 169 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:32.919 it was turned into kind of a cipher or a code. 170 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.279 I imagine so much of that has to be war related, right, Well. 171 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.559 I think to start with, so few people can read 172 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.480 that you don't really need to bother encrypting writing itself 173 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.320 is almost a secret code, but once you start having 174 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.000 military plans or One of the first examples of encryption 175 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.000 is a recipe for a pottery glaze in ancient Sumaria. 176 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:57.960 So somebody's come up with a fantastic recipe for pottery 177 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.919 glaze and they don't want anybody else to steal it. 178 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.799 And this was around fifteen hundred BC. It was like 179 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:08.279 the Colonel Sanders original recipe of eleven herbs and spices 180 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.519 of ceramics. 181 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.159 So those are the kind of things that start emerging. 182 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:14.720 As I said, hieroglyphs are just a way of writing, 183 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:19.440 but sometimes people would write hieroglyphs in a very very 184 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:23.679 cryptic way on the tombs of important people, and the 185 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.440 idea there was that as people passed the tomb, rather 186 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.159 than just reading it and walking on. They'd have to 187 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.720 spend time there in order to decrypt what was going on. 188 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.919 So you kind of got extra reverence from those passers by. 189 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:39.480 Yeah, so sweet, and answer that was so sad. They're like, 190 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:41.679 don't go, don't go, don't go. Here's a puddle. 191 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:44.000 Exactly. Exactly. 192 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:46.879 Make your final resting place a mausleum escape room. 193 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:48.919 But then there's one other type of thing, which is 194 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:51.679 maybe we're talking about, which is if I encrypt a 195 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.919 message and I send it to you and somebody intercepts it, 196 00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:58.879 it looks like gobbledegook, so they know that I'm sending 197 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.440 you a secret message because this just doesn't look normal. 198 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.919 So there's another technology, maybe we can call it called steganography. 199 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:13.440 And steganography doesn't just really hide the meaning of the message, 200 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.240 it hides its very existence. 201 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:16.120 Oh wow. 202 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.480 So here we're talking about things like invisible inks. If 203 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.440 I send you a message on invisible ink, nobody even 204 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.960 knows the message exists. And typically I don't send you 205 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.440 a blank sheet of paper and maybe send you a 206 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:33.600 normal postcard about my holiday. In between the normal ink 207 00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:36.559 are writing invisible ink. Wow, so it looks like a 208 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.399 very normal postcard and In fact, the invisible ink is 209 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.279 what's got the real message. It was a very nice 210 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:49.679 invitation to a military cryptography conference in San Antonio. This 211 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:53.039 is going back maybe forty years, and it looked like 212 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:56.519 a very innocent sketch of the river. I guess it's 213 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.240 the San Antonio River that runs through the town. I 214 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.840 don't know my job very well, but correct. The way 215 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:04.559 you're supposed to read it is if you look at 216 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:07.320 the blades of grass along the side of the river bank, 217 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:11.320 there are long blades and short blades, and so if 218 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:14.120 you turn the long blades and short blades into instead 219 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.159 of long long long, short, short short, you turn them 220 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.519 into dot dot dot dash dash dash, you have a 221 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.919 Morse code message which tells you when the conference is happening, 222 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.000 where you're supposed to go, and so on. So these 223 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:30.320 are examples of staganography, and my favorite example loads of 224 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.279 these examples. One is the message will be written on silk. 225 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:37.320 You wrap the silk into a wax ball and then 226 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:40.879 you swallow the ball, so again nobody knows there's a 227 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:41.639 message at all. 228 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:44.679 So my morbid curiosity led me to a DePaul University 229 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.840 paper titled simply Staganography, which notes that quote. There are 230 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.559 quite a couple of sources that mention this technique that 231 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.360 the Chinese used, but no one mentions how the ball 232 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.240 of wax was recovered from the messenger. It continues, One 233 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.720 is only left to imagine possible and probably painful ways 234 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:06.399 the ball could have come out okay. 235 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:10.200 Or even crazier. I think Herodotus, the Greek historian, writes 236 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:14.000 about a messenger who had his head shaved. They tattooed 237 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.960 the message on his scalp, waited for the hair to regrow, 238 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.840 and then sent him on his way. And then at 239 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:22.440 the other end, you know, you shave the head and 240 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:24.720 recover the message. And I remember talking about this once 241 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.559 and somebody said, it's a great code, but it's very 242 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.399 low bandwidth. You know, it's not going to be a 243 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:32.720 great way to transfer much information very quickly, but effective. 244 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.919 Also, it's a long game. You're in it for a while. 245 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.559 Yes, yes, I suppose that message has got one messenger 246 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.559 has one one message and one message only. 247 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.000 Yeah, do you remember what that message was? Or do 248 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.200 they do a lot of communicating through tattooed heads. 249 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.919 Oh? I think it was possibly so remarkable, which is 250 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:55.759 why maybe Herodesis wrote about it maybe it was an 251 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:57.039 exception rather than the rule. 252 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:02.000 So yes, one low commitment method of staganography might be 253 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:06.080 using a wax writing tablet back then, but writing a 254 00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.759 message on the wood underneath the wax, which is very sneaky, 255 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.759 or yeah, embedding a note via ink into the flesh 256 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.759 of a trusted servant. And because I'm nosy, I wanted 257 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.559 to find out what that secret tattoo message was. And 258 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.399 according to the nineteen ninety nine historical paper Information Hiding 259 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.000 a Survey, there was a passage that said the purpose 260 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:32.840 was to instigate a revolt against the Persians, and just 261 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.679 like people loved doing fighting, and it's never a bad 262 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:41.320 year to get inked. This practice continued with German cryptography, 263 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:46.480 according to the nineteen forty text Secrets of German Espionage. 264 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.000 But how do you make sure that no one else 265 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.639 sees the tattoo head message? If you don't have time 266 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:55.480 for your hairstyles like awkwardly grow back, well, you could 267 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:58.120 do a cover up or a revision tattoo, kind of 268 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:03.440 like turning blurry college era astrological sign into a humming 269 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.919 bird or covering up your ex wife's name with a dragon. 270 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.960 Or you could just kill the servant or the soldier 271 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.320 whose head you used to as a notepad. Can you 272 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:14.960 imagine if it was just a pottery glaze recipe, you'd 273 00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:19.120 be like all that for a life? Well, okay, basic question, 274 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.200 is pig Latin a code? Does that count as code 275 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:22.919 or language? 276 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.519 Now I have what is pig Latin. 277 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.720 It's when you put the last syllable. It's like bidige 278 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:30.320 a little bit, you know what I mean? 279 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:30.639 Right? 280 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:34.840 What do you study at college? 281 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:38.639 Ak? Yeah? I mean that's another nice thing about codes. 282 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.759 You know, they're childish in many ways. And you know, 283 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.639 we all wrote secret codes when we were kids, and 284 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:44.080 I've got a couple of kids, and you know they 285 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:46.679 certainly had their invisible links and other secret messages that 286 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.120 we used to write. And so yeah, it's a playful code, absolutely. 287 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:52.759 And this kind of code is also sometimes called an 288 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.679 argo or a cant. And in the case of pig Latin, 289 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:58.679 you pretty much take the first letter and you moved 290 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.919 to back the word and added so kat becomes at k, 291 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:08.240 ball becomes alba, yarn becomes rnya uk fay becomes something 292 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.480 you could say around grammar. And pig Latin is also 293 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.600 called hog Latin, but it is not the same as 294 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.039 the written system of pig pen. 295 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.679 There's a very nice code called pig pen which just 296 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.039 reminded me of which is you draw two tic tac 297 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.720 toe grids, yes, kind of tictattoe grids, and then you 298 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.960 put the letters instead of x's and y, you put A, B, C, D, E, F, G. 299 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:33.480 And if you imagine A is in the top left 300 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.600 hand corner of a tic tac toe grid, instead of 301 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:40.240 writing the letter A, you would write kind of backwards L. 302 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.159 Because the A is inside a kind of backwards L. 303 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:45.840 He is in the middle of the tic tac toe grid. 304 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:48.919 So E is represented by square because the E is 305 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.159 wrapped around by a square. 306 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:55.240 Oh okay, picture two tic tac toe grids and then 307 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.759 two big exes. So in tictacto grid number one are 308 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.720 the letters A through I. In grid number two are 309 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.799 the letters J through R with some extra dots thrown in. Now, 310 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:11.559 in the first X you have stuv like northeast southwest, 311 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.839 and the second X has wxyz with some extra dots. 312 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.000 So whatever the shape around the letter with dots, if 313 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.440 need be, becomes a cipher and you can make secret 314 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:27.279 words just using those shapes. It's easily crackable if you 315 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:33.279 know this, pigpen cipher, and absolutely useless garbage shapes if 316 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.759 you don't. I'm a big fan. Pretty cool. 317 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.839 So there are lots of lovely little codes that you 318 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.319 can invent yourself or that have been used for literally 319 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:42.319 hundreds of years. 320 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.839 You know, I was surprised. One thing I love about 321 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.319 the way your book is structured is how much history 322 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:51.759 it goes through. So there's so much narrative and stories. Mary, 323 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:55.319 Queen of Scott's, I didn't know this about her code. 324 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:57.200 Can you tell me a little bit more about that 325 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:00.400 and why that was such an interesting thing you wanted 326 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:01.039 to include? 327 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.759 Yeah, sure, absolutely So the most famous type of code 328 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.920 that we probably used as kids is you substitute one 329 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.240 letter for a different letter. And in fact, Julius Caesar, 330 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.640 I think Julius Caesar wrote about codes quite extensively when 331 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.839 he was a general of Gaul in France, and he 332 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.640 explained that, you know, instead of writing A, I'm gonna 333 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.519 write B. Instead of writing B, I'm gonna write C. 334 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:25.160 Or I could shift even more. I could shift the 335 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.400 alphabet five places or ten places. But essentially he was 336 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:33.680 swapping one letter for a different letter. Now, you can 337 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.680 change that substitution cipher. You can make it better. Instead 338 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:40.559 of just shifting every letter, you can just randomly swap 339 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.920 the letters around to A E, B Z, C IS 340 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.279 Y and so on. You mix up all the letters essentially. 341 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:50.759 And that's really quite a strong code in some ways. 342 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.640 There are so many ways of rearranging the alphabet. There 343 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.839 are so many ways of randomly swapping letters around. I 344 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.480 think it's something like four hundred million, billion billion ordinary. 345 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.519 So on the face of it, it looks like an 346 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.599 unbreakable code. And this is the kind of code that Mary, 347 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.039 Queen of Scot's used. Now why was she using codes? Well, 348 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:12.160 she was Mary Queen of Scots. She fell out with 349 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.519 her rivals, she was driven out of Scotland. She fled 350 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.480 to England and sought safety and sanctuary from her cousin, 351 00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:23.680 Queen Elizabeth First. I love my family now. Queen Elizabeth 352 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.400 First wasn't particularly keen on Mary because Mary was a 353 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:31.000 Catholic and Elizabeth was a Protestant, and Elizabeth feared that 354 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:35.880 Mary might try and trigger a Catholic rebellion, possibly invite 355 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:40.160 foreign invaders from France and Spain and usurp her throne. 356 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.880 So for safety. Elizabeth put Mary in prison and she 357 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.079 locked her up and that was it. Now, while she 358 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.880 was locked away in prison, she had a secretary and 359 00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.720 she had a few people around her. While she was 360 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:58.880 in prison, she started writing treacherous letters. She did start 361 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:02.960 writing to these foreign is, particularly Spain, and she was saying, look, 362 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.400 let's coordinate some kind of rebellion, invade Britain, invade England, 363 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.359 and let's turn England catholic again, put me on the 364 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.599 throne and get rid of Elizabeth. Now, she wrote these 365 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.359 letters using this kind of code where you wrote substitute 366 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.039 each letter for a different letter or a different symbol perhaps, 367 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.799 and she smuggled the letters out via beer barrels. Water 368 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.519 was so contaminated at that time that it was much 369 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.720 safer to drink a very diluted form of beer that 370 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:34.640 was kind of just the general thing you would drink 371 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.279 day and day out. And so these beer barrels were 372 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.039 coming in and out of the prison. These notes were 373 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:46.160 smuggled out in these beer barrels. Now, Elizabeth had spymasters 374 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.480 who knew exactly what Mary might be up to, so 375 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.440 they would intercept these beer barrels. They would intercept the 376 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:56.200 messages and they could decode the messages. They knew how 377 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:01.240 to crack this simple substitution side. And that shouldn't have 378 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:06.200 been a surprise to Mary, because well, this code had 379 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.759 been cracked about a thousand years ago, you know, we're 380 00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:12.279 talking about the sixteenth century for Mary, Queen of Scots 381 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.240 and Elizabeth, but it had been cracked in the eleventh 382 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.559 and tenth and eleventh century. In Baghdad, there was a 383 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.759 guy called al Kindi, an Arabic philosopher mathematician, and he 384 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:28.920 realized that every letter's got a personality. So E, for example, 385 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.799 is very common. It's the most common letter in English. 386 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.599 Thirteen percent of all letters are E. And if you 387 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.160 disguise E by drawing it as a diamond, well then 388 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.920 the diamonds are going to be really popular and common. 389 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:45.279 And you therefore you know the diamond really is an E. 390 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.960 If you have two symbols that only ever follow each other, 391 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.480 so you know, a square that only ever follows a circle, 392 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.519 well that could be Q and you, because you know 393 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.920 Q was always followed by you. Also, you know words 394 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.599 have personality, so the is the most common three letter word. 395 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.759 So if you apply this kind of personality analysis to 396 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.400 the letters or symbols in front of you, you can 397 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.759 very rapidly decipher a message. 398 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.400 But according to the twenty twenty two paper al Kenny, 399 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:16.480 the father of cryptoanalysis, if the letter of the encrypted 400 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:20.319 message K has a frequency in the encryption equal to 401 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:24.880