1
00:00:15,119 --> 00:00:17,399
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

2
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,679
with Molly having Away, editor in chief of The Federalist

3
00:00:19,679 --> 00:00:23,480
and David Harsani, senior writer at the Washington Examiner. Just

4
00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:25,879
as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show,

5
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,399
please do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. So, Molly,

6
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,920
had you enjoy a Liberation Day the other day?

7
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 2: I was traveling last week a lot, and so I

8
00:00:36,399 --> 00:00:40,280
have missed a lot of the stm owned drong of

9
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,079
everyone's reaction to Liberation Day, Like I still haven't even

10
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,920
seen the original announcement. You tell me about it, David.

11
00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 1: Bye. I should preface this by saying, anyone who follows

12
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,200
me on Twitter knows that I get pretty into this topic.

13
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,600
I think it's the topic I cared about the most

14
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:07,439
when I got into I guess political journalism, and I

15
00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:09,319
don't even know how to start. I guess. The most

16
00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:13,799
surprising thing was that on Liberation Day the administration released

17
00:01:13,799 --> 00:01:17,319
this kind of chart of each country and the reciprocal

18
00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:20,840
rates that it wanted to have right, But it wasn't like, oh,

19
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,680
Japan has a two percent weight at tariff. They came

20
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:31,480
up with this kakamami formula. Where they measure trade deficits

21
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,920
and surpluses. So Israel has put zero tariffs on everything,

22
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,640
but they still get a I've got what it is,

23
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,719
a ten percent tariff rate on their stuff coming in

24
00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:48,840
because of trade deficits. Now, I tell people this all

25
00:01:48,879 --> 00:01:51,680
the time, no one seems to care. But poorer countries

26
00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:53,560
than us are never going to be able to buy

27
00:01:53,599 --> 00:01:56,560
the expensive stuff we make, or as much of it

28
00:01:56,599 --> 00:01:59,319
as we can buy their cheap stuff. So Cambodia, Vietnam,

29
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,560
they're not rip in us off for buying stuff from them.

30
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:06,040
But anyway, I would just also preface everything by saying,

31
00:02:06,439 --> 00:02:09,879
even if you're four terrorists and four protectionism, I don't

32
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,960
think that you can make the argument that the administration

33
00:02:13,159 --> 00:02:15,439
rolled this thing out in any kind of coherent way

34
00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:19,879
or way that helps the Trump administration. You have Peter

35
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,000
Navarro saying that, you know, we don't want to negotiate

36
00:02:23,039 --> 00:02:26,080
it with anyone. We want barriers. It's good, we're self sufficient.

37
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,879
We're going to make everything here. You have others in

38
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:33,120
the administration saying we're going to negotiate every country. We're

39
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,319
going to have more globalization and fewer terrorists all across

40
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,599
the world, Like it's got to be one or the other.

41
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,759
And then there is this whole I'll call them the

42
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,039
grifter class of MAGA accounts and stuff like this, mocking

43
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,120
people who are worried about their four h one k

44
00:02:47,319 --> 00:02:49,800
is a worried about their five twenty nines, or worried

45
00:02:49,879 --> 00:02:54,120
about their economic future because it looks like we may

46
00:02:54,159 --> 00:02:57,000
be heading for a recession. So anyway, I just I

47
00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,639
guess I want to say the rollout was very incoherent

48
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,439
and used, so.

49
00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:04,479
Speaker 2: I'm so much less interested in the optics. Like this

50
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,840
is like a pet peeve of mine that when you're

51
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,680
on TV people will talk about the optics of this

52
00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:13,199
or the optics of that. They're good, they're bad. It's like, well,

53
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,240
let's just talk about the substance of it. And I

54
00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:17,960
know you care about the substance, so I kind of

55
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,520
want to just focus more on the substance of tariff policy.

56
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,840
One thing that is interesting in people's coverage of it

57
00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:31,639
is they keep talking about tariffs and very little about

58
00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:40,719
other trade barriers. Sometimes a country might have not huge

59
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,439
tariffs on US products, but they have other trade barriers

60
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:53,560
or prohibitions on selling. So Japan, I'm sorry now.

61
00:03:52,759 --> 00:03:54,159
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, I'll give you an example

62
00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:56,919
of where people bring up Japan. One of my pet

63
00:03:56,919 --> 00:04:00,719
peeves is that I don't think anyone actually understands where

64
00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:05,319
people have believe mythologies, like they vastly overestimate what kind

65
00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:07,719
of tarists are put on our products by rich countries

66
00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:11,759
that we trade with. But anyway, so Japan, everyone, Steven Miller,

67
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,399
you know, President's advisor, I forget what is specific title

68
00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:20,639
is said that there are no cars in Japan, no

69
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,319
American cars driving in just Japan and Europe. And that's

70
00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:26,759
not actually true. But the Japanese have zero tariffs on

71
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,319
American cars. So people will say, well, they have all

72
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:36,279
these other barriers to trade, like you know, emissions and whatever,

73
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,839
and that's true, but so do we. California and the

74
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,079
United States has emissions on trade too that make it

75
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,199
difficult to sell cars here, you know what I'm saying.

76
00:04:44,519 --> 00:04:47,680
That make it just as difficult for other companies to

77
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,120
sell cars here as it does for US. Now, I

78
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,680
don't know that our good policy, but I'm not sure

79
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,560
that they're trade barriers. But anyway, even if that were true,

80
00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,279
it doesn't really matter. For instance, Japan invests twelve times

81
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,600
as much as we invest in their country here that

82
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,240
also doesn't show up in trade, actually does show up

83
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,360
in a trade deficit that they're spending money here, so

84
00:05:09,399 --> 00:05:13,759
they make this stab blew my mind. Honda makes nine

85
00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:17,639
of the top fifteen most made in America cars, meaning

86
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:22,639
all parts and everything. So it's a far more integrated

87
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,160
and complicated question than just saying, oh, you know, Honda,

88
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,279
you know, we don't sell cars in Japan. The reason,

89
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,600
of course, is that they don't like big cars, and

90
00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:34,360
it's as expensive to you know, manufacture cars that have

91
00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:35,959
the wheel, you know, the steering wheel on the other

92
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,759
side and all that stuff. But anyway, I don't know,

93
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,040
I get it a little ranty.

94
00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 2: I can't read this thing. I someone shared on Twitter

95
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,040
from a small business manufacturer which I just thought was interesting.

96
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,680
Says it's a little long, so I'll try to skip

97
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,839
through it. We are a small business manufacturer and we

98
00:05:55,879 --> 00:05:59,879
make specialty wireless products catering to niche clients throughout the world.

99
00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:02,839
We have sold to most countries, including a few times

100
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,920
to even countries like Mauritania. We're also one of the

101
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,480
best slash leading manufacturers in our category of business and trade.

102
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,959
We see a lot of folks posting regarding tariffs and

103
00:06:11,959 --> 00:06:13,759
how the sky is falling on our heads in a

104
00:06:13,759 --> 00:06:17,120
global recession, et cetera. Here's the reality for a small

105
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,199
business manufacturer. Our clientele used to be almost sixty forty

106
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,639
before the pandemic, meaning sixty percent sales within the US

107
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,120
and forty percent outside including Canada, Japan, Australia, et cetera.

108
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,639
The EU was always less than five percent, barring sales

109
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,480
from Scandinavia and good sales in the UK. One of

110
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:38,959
the key reasons we were never able to penetrate the

111
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,079
EU market, even with a superior product was because of

112
00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,079
the tariff and VAT charged by EU. Then the euro

113
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,680
almost became par with the US dollar, and this also

114
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,120
added to the equation, meaning they had to spend more

115
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,680
money to buy an American made product. Our raw materials, hardware,

116
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,600
et cetera. Are sourced within the US, parts are jobbed

117
00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,759
out to local CNC machinists, and the final product is

118
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,920
one hundred percent made in the USA. After the pandemic,

119
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,399
the shipping costs for exporters rose up to very high levels,

120
00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:10,079
almost double and at the same time, if a US

121
00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:12,879
dealer is importing a similar product from a competitor in

122
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,199
the EU, the shipping costs for import are half the price.

123
00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:19,079
So not only are we impacted exporting due to VAT

124
00:07:19,079 --> 00:07:22,759
and high shipping costs, our domestic market is also constantly

125
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,600
being challenged because of imports zero VAT or customs duty

126
00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:30,879
into the USA and cheap import shipping offered by FedEx, UPSDHL,

127
00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:34,519
et cetera. So he goes on and kind of describes

128
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,639
how a traff might equalize things for them and why

129
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,079
shipping costs are so ridiculous. And I mentioned this in

130
00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:46,600
part because it kind of infuriated me to learn about

131
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,639
how the EU makes it so that small businesses in

132
00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,439
the US can't compete in their markets and how we

133
00:07:53,519 --> 00:07:56,920
have done nothing about it other than provide for their

134
00:07:57,079 --> 00:07:59,079
entire defense for eighty years.

135
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: Okay, I could give you a bunch of businesses and

136
00:08:06,439 --> 00:08:09,360
small businesses that I've seen on Twitter complaining that tariffs

137
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,759
will destroy their business as well, But I'll tell you this.

138
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking about the European ban.

139
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,839
Speaker 1: Okay, we instituted that policy in Europe. We force them,

140
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,160
We forced them to take our defense. That's what we

141
00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:25,920
did with Germany and Japan. I am all for stopping.

142
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,199
Speaker 2: Saying after World War Two. Yeah, okay, the Japanese we're

143
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:31,959
eighty years past that.

144
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 1: D Yeah, I'm trying to tell you something. So administration

145
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:39,720
after administration we strengthen that agreement, and if we want

146
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,000
to change that, I'm all for it. I think every

147
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,559
country should defend itself. But you can't just one day

148
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,480
wake up and slap Switzerland has zero tariffs on the

149
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,519
United States, and we slap them with like a twenty

150
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,720
four percent tariff rate because of the disparity in what

151
00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:56,039
we sell each other, which is insane. It's a much

152
00:08:56,039 --> 00:08:58,679
smaller country. My point is this, if you're going to

153
00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:01,360
do stuff like this, you need a a plan. You

154
00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:05,039
have to deal with people and let them first acclimate

155
00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:07,279
to the new reality that you're you're you don't think

156
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,320
so you're making faces. I mean, so all of a sudden,

157
00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:15,039
we are going to slap Europe with giant tariffs that

158
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,360
undermine our ability to trade too, because it's going to

159
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,559
be a trade war because we implemented a policy of

160
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,279
defending Western Europe in World War Two. It doesn't make

161
00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:28,240
any sense. Can I actually, can we take a step

162
00:09:28,279 --> 00:09:30,360
back though, before we get into the Can I just

163
00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:34,759
go through. Every person who attacks me on Twitter when

164
00:09:34,759 --> 00:09:39,320
I'm talking tells me a few believe some a slew

165
00:09:39,399 --> 00:09:42,600
of things that are just untrue. Okay. The first one

166
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,320
is that we don't make anything anymore. US manufacturing is

167
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,440
an all time high, and output adjusted for inflation. Fewer

168
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,279
people work in manufacturing because it is much more efficient

169
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,759
and that creates other jobs. The other thing I hear

170
00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,440
is that the middle class has been hollowed out. That

171
00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:03,480
is not true. True. In nineteen sixty seven, the working

172
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,720
the middle class was fifty four point six percent. Now

173
00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:09,360
is thirty nine percent, but the upper middle class is

174
00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:12,879
thirty seven percent instead of thirteen. It has grown, and

175
00:10:12,919 --> 00:10:16,679
the working class has shrunk because they become richer, not poorer.

176
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,919
Salaries and wages are up in real dollars for families

177
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,320
for workers. And finally, I just want to say, everyone

178
00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:26,840
keeps saying we're falling behind. Well I can show you

179
00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:29,000
that we're not. Not only are we not falling behind,

180
00:10:29,039 --> 00:10:33,919
but we have significantly expanded the gap between US and

181
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,559
other countries in per capita GDP. I just think the

182
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,120
whole thing is based on a mythology. To begin with,

183
00:10:40,159 --> 00:10:42,519
the people believe that it is completely untrue.

184
00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:46,679
Speaker 2: Okay, you just went like in fourteen different directions, which

185
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,919
makes it I.

186
00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: Have a real problem to trying to get too much

187
00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:51,679
out quickly.

188
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 2: So just back well, And I feel like I should

189
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:59,519
mention at some point that I generally think tariffs are

190
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:06,840
attacked on us, and that doesn't mean necessarily that they're wrong,

191
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,360
but they are at cost. I remember reading years ago

192
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:17,960
this piece from a professor of economics about it's called

193
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,279
like just tariff theory or something, and so it kind

194
00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:22,960
of went through the bulk of the piece was about

195
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,279
how tariffs are kind of bad, bad for people, their attacks,

196
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,360
they add to your costs. They're an inefficiency, but that

197
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,879
so is war, and war is always bad in the

198
00:11:35,919 --> 00:11:38,279
sense that you lose lives and it costs money and

199
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,759
it's not productive, but that sometimes you need to go

200
00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:47,120
to war, sometimes you need to do tariffs, and that

201
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,960
the policies I can't remember what he wrote exactly, but

202
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,840
that the policy should be kind of similar to just

203
00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:54,960
war theory, where there are certain rules by which you

204
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,600
can go to war and they shouldn't be preemptive and

205
00:11:57,759 --> 00:12:00,279
or they shouldn't be Yeah, they should't. You shouldn't be

206
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,519
the aggressor in a trade war, but you can respond

207
00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:10,039
to a trade war. And I think that's a really

208
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,360
interesting idea for the situation that we're in. One of

209
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,879
the things that made me mad about this story from

210
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,840
this small manufacturer. And I recognize that you said there

211
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,600
are stories from other manufacturers about how tariffs are bad

212
00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:29,360
for them. Where were you people like complaining about Europe's

213
00:12:29,399 --> 00:12:35,639
approach to our products for the last eighty years. Why

214
00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,919
aren't you freaking out about that as much as you're

215
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,960
freaking out about a response to it.

216
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 1: Because I don't want I wrote a first of May,

217
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:44,399
what have you written?

218
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: There's no book or anything like that.

219
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,720
Speaker 1: I wrote a whole book called Eurotrash. It is available

220
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,720
for sale at a steeply discounted price on Amazon because

221
00:12:52,759 --> 00:12:56,320
it's how economics work, and you can buy it, and

222
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:58,879
in it there is an entire chapter maybe two. I

223
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,080
forget about this and related topics. We should not be

224
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,080
following the lead of countries that are poorer than us.

225
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,559
We cannot control what the EU does. Now you can negotiate,

226
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:11,879
and if you can try it and you want to

227
00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:14,639
levy tariffs on them, you can, but that's a tax

228
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,559
on us in the end, we dominate because we make

229
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,159
things that are far more complex and far more useful

230
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,960
than what other people manufacture. Not so much the you

231
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,799
where you have like Germany is a pharmaceutical patent, so on.

232
00:13:31,879 --> 00:13:36,080
But talking about China right now today, there are five

233
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,639
hundred thousand open manufacturing jobs in the United States that

234
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,480
are unfilled. This is every month average.

235
00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:46,919
Speaker 2: I think that's widely considered to be a not true.

236
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,519
Speaker 1: Stat It is one hundred pritues.

237
00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that they don't list job openings.

238
00:13:51,519 --> 00:13:54,480
Part of that is about reaction, like part of that

239
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:59,480
is related to the illegal immigrant crisis, where they're trying

240
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,519
to hide the hiring of illegal immigrants and they do

241
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,879
it through these ghost postings about jobs.

242
00:14:06,879 --> 00:14:10,080
Speaker 1: But go on, Okay, most manufacturing jobs in the US

243
00:14:10,159 --> 00:14:13,279
are not manual labor jobs anymore. They're you know, they're

244
00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:19,720
they're more complicated and you need better skills. But and

245
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,559
I agree, even Milton Friedman, even Adam Smith said that,

246
00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:25,159
you know, you can use tariff sometimes if people are

247
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,759
undermining in some way your ability to sell things. But

248
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,720
a flat worldwide tariff is not what that is. I mean,

249
00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:34,759
you can admit that, right, I mean, this is not

250
00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:38,679
some kind of surgical attack on China or you know,

251
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:39,480
I actually do so.

252
00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 2: That's the one of the fourteen things you brought up

253
00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,919
in your monologue there was related to how this isn't

254
00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:47,360
about China. I think it's all about China. I think

255
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:52,440
all of the tariffs on other countries are about pressuring China,

256
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,320
particularly in Asia. And even if you look at like

257
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,759
the redrafted quote unquote, what was it called a free

258
00:15:02,759 --> 00:15:05,600
trade agreement? One of my husband's favorite things to think

259
00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:08,480
about is how free trade agreements are always like twelve

260
00:15:08,559 --> 00:15:12,000
hundred pages long, when if they were a genuine free

261
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:14,240
trade agreement, it would just say we have free trade.

262
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:18,120
But it's all like you know, rules and regulations governing

263
00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:21,919
the trade between different countries. So after we redid the

264
00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:26,679
situation with Mexico and Canada to have like privileges for

265
00:15:27,159 --> 00:15:30,919
those bordering countries, China just moved into both countries and

266
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,440
started doing everything directly through them to get around our

267
00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:40,080
barriers against China. That's even more true of China's nearer neighbors,

268
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,360
how they have just run through different countries. A lot

269
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,759
of trade inefficiencies do relate to trying to run your

270
00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:52,840
products through countries with lower barriers.

271
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 3: Elon's not cutting Medicare, just the billions in waste of it.

272
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,480
Watched out Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day

273
00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:05,519
Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy

274
00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:07,679
and how it affects your wallet. As the left freaks

275
00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:10,600
out claiming Elon Musk is gonna cut Medicare. Remember during

276
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,000
Obamacare when health insurance got double paid by Medicaid for

277
00:16:14,159 --> 00:16:17,200
hundreds of thousands of patients and our government didn't check

278
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,399
whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street.

279
00:16:19,399 --> 00:16:20,600
It's affecting you financially.

280
00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 1: Be informed.

281
00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:23,399
Speaker 3: Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris

282
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,480
Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

283
00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't know why you can't we care.

284
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:34,120
I just don't know why we care that or why

285
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,759
we would want to reimport. First of all, the argument

286
00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:40,200
you're making is not the argument made by the administration.

287
00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:43,519
The argument made by the administration is that Tarif's are beautiful,

288
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,240
quote that they will bring back jobs, they will reignite

289
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,240
the cities in the rust belt that have died, they

290
00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:54,080
will help you. There are people out there who make

291
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,919
the argument that America is dying and that the only

292
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,320
way to save us, our fan families and so forth

293
00:17:01,679 --> 00:17:07,119
are bringing back our tariffs that protect us from others,

294
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,319
not to bring more globalization, not to open up and

295
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,960
make it fair, and not just to go after China.

296
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:15,680
I you know, I just don't know why we care

297
00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:18,279
that there are sweatshops in China. Sweatshops are good for

298
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,200
Chinese because their other thing they can do is starve

299
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,720
if they don't have them. So why would we want

300
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,359
to re import those jobs and bring them back. It

301
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,880
doesn't Lutnik said the other day that we were going

302
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,880
to decimate the armies of people screwing together iPhones and

303
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,839
bring it here. Why would we want to do that?

304
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,599
We make much better products. Our GDP is I think,

305
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,680
seven times larger than the average cap per capita GDP

306
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:42,759
and China. Why would I want to copy them? Why

307
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:45,759
would I copy Germany, which has a has a smaller

308
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,559
GDP per capita than West Virginia? Why why would I

309
00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:50,519
follow their lead? It makes no sense to me?

310
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,039
Speaker 2: Okay. So one of the reasons that I think people

311
00:17:53,079 --> 00:17:58,039
are open to re shoring some things here is because

312
00:17:58,039 --> 00:18:02,920
of what we saw happen during the Global pandemic, and

313
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,119
it does relate to the shipping costs, but it also

314
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,160
just relates to the shutdown on shipping. A global economy

315
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,640
works great in times of peace, if all countries are

316
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:20,359
peaceful with each other, offshoring important services and goods elsewhere

317
00:18:21,319 --> 00:18:24,480
can be a great efficiency that allows you to greatly

318
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:29,119
increase your gross domestic product. And that's all great, And

319
00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:34,640
then if things go poorly, it's a nightmare disaster scenario.

320
00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:39,240
If you cannot produce your own like most basic goods,

321
00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:46,039
and some people might put telecommunications manufacturing in that, then

322
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:50,960
you are completely beholden to foreign entities that maybe seek

323
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:57,200
your destruction, and so it's a tension. I don't disagree

324
00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:01,559
with basically anything you've said at this point. I also

325
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,519
see that there are concerns here with being too reliant

326
00:19:05,559 --> 00:19:09,960
on foreign entities, including a foreign entity like China, the

327
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,119
communist China, which is gaining everything through their hybrid economy

328
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,720
which is partly private, like they have all the benefits

329
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:21,759
of free market with all of the benefits of a

330
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:25,000
controlled economy. And it's kind of like this powerhouse awful

331
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:28,599
situation as it relates to competing against our goods. It's

332
00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:31,200
obviously not great for them. As you point out, you know,

333
00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:36,799
we have much flourishing, but some of the stuff that

334
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:41,440
we've been getting from overseas we have a national security

335
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,720
interest in producing here. This would be you know, arms.

336
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,759
Speaker 1: With the leading arms producer in the world.

337
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we need to make sure every component of

338
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,200
it is done here. I mean, this is kind of

339
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,480
a silly example, but I always like to think about

340
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,880
the operation Pager whatever it was called, that Israel did

341
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,480
against Hezbola. Hezbola did not have control over its pager operations.

342
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,160
You'd be like, how could they? Well, yeah, it's true,

343
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,880
how could they? But we could have control over our

344
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,279
pager operations or our telecom goods, and that might be

345
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,240
in our interest, might not be. But it's like an

346
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:22,279
open debate. I think.

347
00:20:23,759 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: I think our production and everything that happened under COVID

348
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,160
was more resilient than people give it credit for. But

349
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,119
I will say that, yes, if the entire world shuts

350
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,920
down all their production and all their shipping, it's going

351
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,799
to be problematic for us. And if the argument here

352
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,039
was we need to make more X semiconductors whatever, that

353
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,039
would be a completely different story. But if you look

354
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:49,720
at the person who is defending Trump. They're not talking

355
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160
about specifics. They're talking about protectionism as a good which

356
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,880
will make America great again. I don't know where that

357
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,480
year again. Is Is it nineteen seventy? Is it nineteen fifty?

358
00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:02,000
Love for them to tell me, because then we can

359
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,079
talk about those numbers.

360
00:21:03,079 --> 00:21:06,039
Speaker 2: Okay, this is something where I do think I kind

361
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,759
of differ from you. I'm not sure, but and I'm

362
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:11,440
forgiving because I haven't been on Twitter as much as

363
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,519
as much as i'd like. That's horrible to say, so I've.

364
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:17,559
Speaker 1: Been on it way too much.

365
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, what is the free market for?

366
00:21:24,519 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: Why do you not for social engineering? It's to make

367
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:33,240
us richer and to give us better lives generally, it's

368
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,039
not once we start centralizing it and trying to control

369
00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:37,960
it in backfires in awful ways.

370
00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 2: Go on, what do you determine it makes for better lives?

371
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: Well, you always say, oh, you know, people aren't little

372
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,240
pieces of GDP. But if you're talking about economic policy,

373
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:54,400
that's how we judge it. Now, social policy. If you're

374
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,880
saying that the way things are going, in the way

375
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,000
free markets work, destroy families or they have too you know,

376
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,519
or whatever it is, those are social policies we need

377
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:07,440
to deal with. If you're saying that we're too rich

378
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,160
and that's why it's happening, then you should not you,

379
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,000
but people should make the argument that they'd like to

380
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,359
see us a little bit poorer and with a fewer choices.

381
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,240
But once you try to centrally plan economy, is you

382
00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:20,480
know that you know well that that doesn't really work,

383
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:23,240
and it's never really worked. I tried to preempt your

384
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:25,240
or dunk on me, but go on, no, I.

385
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: Actually was just asking I had no to me, it's

386
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,880
the interesting question I keep you know that, great, Margaret,

387
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,839
that's your line about socialists being bad because they just

388
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,319
wanted the gap between wealthy and poor to be smaller.

389
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,160
And if even if that meant that the poor were poor,

390
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,279
so long as the rich are less rich, they just

391
00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:49,799
want the gap to be small. And to me, that

392
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,039
was always a great And then you also you referenced

393
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:54,440
it in something that you just said, which is everyone's

394
00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:59,079
wealthier than they were in the seventies, right, So if

395
00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:02,680
we're all wealthier, then even if the super wealthy are

396
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:08,240
way way wealthier than what's the problem. And so, first off,

397
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:12,319
I was kind of thinking about that issue of in

398
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,839
a communal structure like a country, is it okay if

399
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,599
some people are getting much richer and other people are

400
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:26,160
only getting slightly richer and is not. One of the

401
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,759
things that has kind of made America great over the

402
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:32,480
years is a free market that enabled like wild fluctuations

403
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:34,799
and who was rich and who was poor? You know

404
00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:35,200
what I mean?

405
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: Like it literally happens more now than ever. You are

406
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:42,200
richer than ever in the sense that people move from

407
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,400
class to class upwards and have more than they ever had.

408
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,680
I think the problem is we romanticize how great and

409
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,039
equal things were in the past when they weren't. A

410
00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,200
person in the middle class now lives like Royalty lived

411
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,359
in the nineteen fifties or probably even the nineteen seventies.

412
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,440
The house you have is on average one thousand square

413
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,440
feed bigger pause right there?

414
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,799
Speaker 2: The house you have? Yeah, how easy is it to

415
00:24:05,799 --> 00:24:06,319
buy a house?

416
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,559
Speaker 1: It depends where you live. The home ownership rate was

417
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:17,799
peaked in the two thousands, right before two thousand and seven,

418
00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:20,119
push too many people in housing, and now it is

419
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,240
at a higher or equal rate to what it was

420
00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:24,839
in the eighties and seventies. It's hard for a young

421
00:24:24,839 --> 00:24:27,200
person to buy a house, especially if they live in

422
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,759
these places where we are not building houses anymore. That

423
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,920
is an economic reality, not because of the free markets.

424
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,920
A free market would say keep building, keep building houses,

425
00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:38,799
move to places where there are cheaper housing. Where there's

426
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,960
cheaper housing. I mean, I don't know what people want.

427
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,640
By the way, how do tariffs make housing prices go lower?

428
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: Run?

429
00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:45,319
Speaker 1: Yeah?

430
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: How about a car?

431
00:24:46,279 --> 00:24:48,599
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm taking all my you're my strow

432
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,000
man basically for all the things that people are saying

433
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:52,160
to me online, but going what.

434
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: Easy is it to buy a car?

435
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,599
Speaker 1: It's relative, It's relatively easy. I mean I have a

436
00:24:58,599 --> 00:25:01,759
list somewhere around. I've just experienced this.

437
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: Okay. I have children of car driving age. We wanted

438
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,440
to get them a complete beater. I mean the first

439
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,880
car I bought, I think I bought for like five

440
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,400
hundred dollars and drove it for many years. It's impossible

441
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,240
to get a cheap car these days. Like it's impossible.

442
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,720
It's very difficult. Sorry, don't mean to be so hyperbolic.

443
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:28,519
There were things happening with lack of like easy access

444
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:33,440
for lower incomes to cars to low paying jobs, like

445
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,119
I know you're talking about like these five hundred thousand

446
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,920
manufacturing jobs that are there, it's very hard for my

447
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,079
kids to get a job. I mean, yes, they're teenagers.

448
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,559
Speaker 1: Do you know where the unemployment rate is right? You

449
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:47,400
know it's at a low and consistently low. You think

450
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,240
it was easier to get a job in the seventies

451
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:50,599
that paid well than it is now.

452
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 2: I think for certain types of people. And that's one

453
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,319
of the things, like when we talk about in the aggregate,

454
00:25:55,799 --> 00:26:00,680
it just can leave out some stuff. So yes, I

455
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,200
agree that the country is very wealthy and has done

456
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,400
very well in wealth creation. How that wealth is shared

457
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:15,480
among different classes is not necessarily like us being at

458
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,039
our best right now. So I know that among the

459
00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:20,720
tech bros, they're like, oh Ai, we will like automate

460
00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:23,359
everything and then we'll put everybody on a universal basic income.

461
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,960
But we'll be wealthier than ever before. And I'm sure

462
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:29,039
you love that, and I'm sure you think that's great,

463
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,519
but it's actually there's more to an economy than just

464
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,599
the wealth generation we need.

465
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,559
Speaker 1: I don't accept your premise. We need people in plumbing

466
00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:45,079
and construction and electrical work and carpentry and welding and maintaining.

467
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,799
Automation We need people like that. What the problem we

468
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,279
have is we have the government stepped in and created

469
00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:54,640
a environment where we send everyone to college to get

470
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,880
useless journalism degrees instead of learning a trade and helping

471
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,160
the country and helping themselves. That is a different problem.

472
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,759
I don't understand how tariffs propping up a dying antiquated

473
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:06,680
mill somewhere in the Roust Belt is going to help

474
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,680
those people have better lives, so that, you know, you know,

475
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,799
that's what I mean by central control, by by government

476
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:22,599
controlling stuff. Sorry I interrupted you. Well, I just want

477
00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:24,160
to say one quick thing as well. I've been very

478
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,440
scattered because it's honestly a huge topic to discuss, right

479
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,480
for every rust belt town we look at, and I

480
00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:36,640
really feel for those people. You know, they built entire

481
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,400
cities around a mill, and that's not a good economic

482
00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:43,119
model to begin with, because progress and creative destruction always

483
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,200
leaves people behind, and we should find ways to help them.

484
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,960
But we shouldn't ignore the giant, new, beautiful, rich suburb

485
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,279
in Florida and Texas and Utah and North Carolina and

486
00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:55,640
South Carolina. We're production where there are products, where there's

487
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,920
a big production hubs, manufacturing hubs, I mean, and a

488
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,039
lot of good going on. I just you have to

489
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,000
balance what you're looking at. If you're only looking at

490
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,480
the worst thing that's happening, your policy is going to

491
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:08,160
be skewed in a way that's going to hurt a

492
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,400
lot of people who benefit from international trade, who benefit

493
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:18,000
from manufacturing and the higher efficiencies and technology that we have. Anyway,

494
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:19,559
I think.

495
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 2: That's very true. I also think that some of our

496
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,759
trade practices unfairly outsourced a lot of this manufacturing to

497
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,880
a communist country. I think I've mentioned before that I

498
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,400
was one of the people who wrongly thought that the

499
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,640
most Favored Nation status for China and the opening up

500
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,160
of markets with China would help China become a freer country,

501
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,519
and that we would export our ideas to them, and

502
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:49,039
that everything would be good as a result of that.

503
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,119
I did not expect the opposite to happen, that China

504
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,400
would become dominant, that they would be still a communist

505
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:58,640
country with all of the repressive regime that that entails,

506
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,119
that they would be the ones exporting their ideas to us,

507
00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:06,559
and that they're hold their trade practices are they need

508
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:08,759
to they need to be stopped like they are a

509
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:11,519
threat to the country. I don't see why people understood

510
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:13,640
the Soviet Union to be such a threat, But they

511
00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:20,000
don't see the descendant of that, or the new communist

512
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,319
regime that seeks global control, which is communist China. They

513
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:28,240
don't see that as a threat. And I do think

514
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:35,079
that this major shakeup is designed to disrupt China from

515
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:40,079
being like the core of the global supply chain. So

516
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,359
every country is trading with China, and China is able

517
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:51,039
to continue and grow and be dominant because of because

518
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:57,640
of that. I think that's what the tariff. So when

519
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,240
Trump does all of these like absurdly high tariffs against

520
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,200
all these other countries, they all start kind of coming

521
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,839
to him and saying, Okay, what if we drop this

522
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,039
trade barrier, and what if we did this differently? And

523
00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:10,680
so there will be dozens of countries restructuring trade barriers

524
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,599
that never would have happened if the teariff proposal hadn't

525
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,319
been so dramatic. I know, you're like, we should have

526
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,319
done a five year plan where we told them if

527
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:22,279
they didn't do better, then we would slowly face stuff.

528
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,599
Speaker 1: In I don't know how how is Cambodia or Vietnam

529
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,119
supposed to do better. How are they supposed to balance

530
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:31,359
or trade deficit with US. They're small, poor countries.

531
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,039
Speaker 2: They also have trade barriers. They also have deals they're

532
00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:37,839
doing with China, and they can bring other proposals to

533
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,000
the table for a drop on tariffs. Okay, there is

534
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,720
an area that China is very weak in that they

535
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:50,400
do not import much from America and we import everything

536
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,440
from China, so they need us to continue to be

537
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:55,519
a trading partner with them. They're also at kind of

538
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:57,960
a weak point in that they over expanded in their

539
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,640
real estate markets. They are their yuan is weak, like

540
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,440
they are at a moment where they do not have

541
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:08,240
maximum leverage. I think we saw, you know, just literally

542
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,440
in the last twenty four hours or so. They're trying

543
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,400
to indicate more strength than they probably have. But this

544
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,599
might not be the worst time to take on China

545
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,200
as the only real competitor to the US. And there

546
00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:23,960
is a belief that if we just keep doing things

547
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,240
the way we've been doing them, it will be disastrous.

548
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:28,440
And I don't hear from a lot of the critics

549
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,559
of this tariff policy, and I'm totally open to one

550
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,960
hundred percent of the criticisms that you had, but I

551
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,279
don't hear a lot of like your thing is, everything

552
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,319
is great, there's no need for any change. And I

553
00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:43,880
look at some of these trade barriers and tariffs that

554
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,200
other countries are imposing on, you know, my fellow man

555
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,440
in America, and I say, that's not great and it's

556
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,400
not cool, and it's not great that we let China

557
00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:55,599
just dump all sorts of products into this country, thereby

558
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,000
keeping average Americans from being able to have a thriving

559
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:02,240
small business, and that we don't do anything about the

560
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,039
barriers and the tariffs and the taxes in other countries.

561
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,400
And we say that's okay. We're the big donkey, so

562
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,119
we'd like, we don't need anybody else to do anything.

563
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,480
We'll just take it and we'll let we'll have like

564
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:14,839
these really nice environments for you to dump all your

565
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:18,759
products in. But if you want to disrupt the global

566
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:22,400
supply chain, you do kind of have to do something dramatic.

567
00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:27,200
And I think that this situation with China is going

568
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,160
to be the one that's enduring in a way that

569
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,640
it's not enduring, meaning the tariff situation with China might

570
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,759
be enduring in a way that is not enduring with

571
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:41,640
other countries. So you ask what Vietnam can.

572
00:32:41,559 --> 00:32:48,079
Speaker 1: Do maybe China. I do not. Well, Okay, first of all,

573
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:50,240
I didn't say everything was great, and you know we

574
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,279
shouldn't do anything.

575
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: But it does make me a little frustrated. Okay, Well,

576
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:58,480
I just want to defend you in part and then

577
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,200
complain about you in part the defense. It makes me

578
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,680
angry when I see people getting angry at you for

579
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:07,519
what you have said since the first day I read you,

580
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:11,799
which is opposition to Tariff's as bad economic policy. You

581
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,759
have never deviated and people are like, oh, you're trying

582
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:18,160
to hurt Trump or whatever. It's like, this is of

583
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,160
all your consistencies, and there are many, this is your

584
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,079
most consistent aspect, so you well, it's just it's not appreciated.

585
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,519
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, it's not that great a deal.

586
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,759
But you know, I don't think I'm great for doing that.

587
00:33:30,839 --> 00:33:32,839
I mean a lot of people have consistent opinions. But yes,

588
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,119
a lot of people think I hate Trump. This is TDS,

589
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,440
they say, and all this stuff. Five years ago, everyone

590
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,039
agreed with me on the right, you know what I mean.

591
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:43,160
It GE's so weird to me, But go on, I.

592
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: Will point out that not like there has always been

593
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,920
protectionism on the right, and I was just even rewatching

594
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,799
like a ross pro thing. He got a lot of

595
00:33:51,839 --> 00:33:54,839
support from the right for his beliefs, which are not

596
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,359
altogether dissimilar from Trump's right now. But the other thing

597
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,119
is that I wish these people who claim to care

598
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,400
about the free markets had done more in defensive free

599
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,240
markets as it affected average Americans.

600
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,159
Speaker 1: Like what that mean? A great way is in every

601
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,360
way that every quantifiable way we're better off. I mean,

602
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,960
I don't understanding.

603
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,679
Speaker 2: The hair on fire right now does not match the

604
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,000
lack of hairent like I have not seen AEI go

605
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:24,159
out there and be like our goal for the years

606
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,559
to get the Europeans to like stop their unfair trade practices.

607
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: They shouldn't start from it.

608
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: Wait, what do you mean they shouldn't.

609
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,119
Speaker 1: Because your premises are I disagree with them. First of all,

610
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,639
I ask people how much of the economy do you

611
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,119
think is important? How much of our stuff? How much

612
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,960
of the GDPs goods and services? How that much? People

613
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,119
tell me fifty sixty eighty percent, it's fifteen percent. Okay,

614
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,760
you are not dominated by globalism, and the truth of

615
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,679
the matter, is that if you want to buy in

616
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,679
the US, you can. But moreover free markets, everyone's like,

617
00:34:59,679 --> 00:35:01,400
there's no such thing as a free market. Win to

618
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,199
a fair market, it's not gonna happen. I can't control

619
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,079
what the EU does. They have voters and democracies, and

620
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,480
maybe they ignore the democracy and do whatever they want.

621
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,400
And they're gonna do whatever they want. But we overestimate

622
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:14,480
what kind of barriers to trade there are. Now you're

623
00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:16,960
saying vats are trade. That's how they tax people there.

624
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,000
What are we supposed to do about that? You want

625
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:21,199
to have a vat here to uncopy them. I mean,

626
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,159
people say, and this is a big talking point. If

627
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,000
terifs are bad, why why does every country use them?

628
00:35:27,519 --> 00:35:29,920
Why does every country have censorship? Why does every country

629
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,159
not have a second amendment? We don't follow what other

630
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:35,960
countries do. We dominate. And by the way, you keep

631
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,480
saying China is like the dominant path they're not. They

632
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:40,920
make most of the stuff they make as garbage. We

633
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,360
make medical equipment, We make durable goods six percent more

634
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,199
than we did ten years ago. Everyone thinks that we

635
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,800
don't anymore. China does not dominate. They have how many

636
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,920
more people than US five times as many more people

637
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,239
than US. So yeah, in pure terms, they're going to

638
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,679
pump out more stuff. That doesn't mean that they're dominating US.

639
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,000
Most Chinese are incredibly poor. You want to talk about inequality,

640
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:07,320
look to China. Most of them can buy American goods.

641
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,760
Even if they wanted to, they don't have the money

642
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,639
to buy it. So I don't listen. I hate the

643
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,960
chi coms. I hope they fail, but you know, you

644
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,840
don't want to do anything to make Yeah, what am

645
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,719
I supposed to go to war with them all the time.

646
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:21,840
I want communism to die, and I agree with you.

647
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,280
I was wrong a bit too. I don't remember what

648
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,159
I wrote. I thought that, you know, when economic freedom comes,

649
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,880
usually political freedom follows, and maybe that's still going to

650
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,480
be the case. We don't know what's going to happen

651
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,880
twenty years from now in China. I just don't people

652
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,880
think that China is nipping on our heels. I mean the.

653
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,679
Speaker 2: Again, David. Yeah, eighteen things that were just said in

654
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,159
that you want to respond to one? And then I'm like, okay,

655
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:48,880
we've been gone to like twelve more and now I

656
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,480
don't even remember what I should.

657
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: Have written down. Everything and we should have done it

658
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,280
one at a time. I apologize.

659
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,559
Speaker 2: No, it's just that there's a lot and maybe we

660
00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:57,800
should just do it like weekly, since apparently we will

661
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,719
be in a trade war for the foreseeable future. I

662
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,519
do think it's worth pointing out that protection protecting certain

663
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:09,840
industries is an ancient idea that does relate to the

664
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,039
security of your people. Okay, so it's not I will

665
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:20,320
never deny that a tariff is a harm imposed on

666
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,400
the people that you know that have to pay it,

667
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,760
But there are strategic reasons why you might do it,

668
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,320
and every country in the history of the world has

669
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,480
done it to protect certain industries because there are certain

670
00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:36,679
things that in the short term can be obtained in

671
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,679
a cheaper and more efficient fashion from another country, but

672
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,360
in the long term could lead to your destruction. And

673
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:49,360
that every single president, including Reagan, who wrote and spoke

674
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,800
eloquently against tariffs, has imposed tariffs. And it's been Tariffs

675
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,000
have been in place in our country since the very founding.

676
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,559
In fact, we used to pay for our country.

677
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: Through So it's if you want to share, and.

678
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:06,559
Speaker 2: So I'm just I'm just saying I don't want to

679
00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:09,599
be so extreme about it as to say like, there

680
00:38:09,639 --> 00:38:14,360
will be no perfectly free market. Ever, so if there's

681
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,920
not a free market, how you respond to other people

682
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,280
with unfair trade practices? You know, you have some room there,

683
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,440
and you do it precisely to avoid war. It is

684
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,079
better to have a trade war than a hot war,

685
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,880
and we are in many ways headed toward a hot

686
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,840
war in our current time. And if we can avoid

687
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,000
that through a trade war and using our incredible power

688
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,639
to reshape things away from China, that might be in

689
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:43,559
everybody's interest.

690
00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:50,519
Speaker 1: All Right, you keep talking about you've you keep trying

691
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:53,079
to make a case that the administration doesn't make. I mean,

692
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,199
you know, they say, we used to pay for everything

693
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,360
with tariffs, and we will we can again, and we

694
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,840
can eliminate the income text. Yeah, if you shrink the

695
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,360
government by like a thousandfold, then maybe, And then what

696
00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:05,440
happens when.

697
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:06,639
Speaker 2: We stop saying things I love?

698
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah? Then what? Yeah? I wish? But have you seen

699
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,480
the new budget they're working on. We're not shrinking anything.

700
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,480
So the bottom line is people tell me, you know again,

701
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:18,519
this is just social media. I'm just reacting to what

702
00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:21,440
people's arguments are that we're going to balance the budget,

703
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,199
that it's going to help. But no, it's not. We're

704
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:26,599
not We're never balancing the budget in our lifetime. I mean,

705
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:29,199
it's just not happening and well done.

706
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 2: I do think that's another part and we really should

707
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,480
move on. But that's another part of the strategy. I

708
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:37,760
think we are facing financial ruin in our debt. We

709
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,519
do need to restructure, like people have been doing this

710
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:42,599
thing for decades where they're just like, we will kick

711
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:44,840
this can down the road and then a future generation

712
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,039
will completely implode over our debt. And you do have

713
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:55,159
to make some dramatic changes in order to pay down

714
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:57,280
some of this debt. And yes, part of it could

715
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,360
be spending less, but that's not working. Growing the economy

716
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,199
is a method that has worked.

717
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: And protectionism. Never in the history of Earth has grown

718
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,320
an economy from a non No one has ever put

719
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,559
more tariffs on and become richer after. So I don't

720
00:40:14,559 --> 00:40:16,039
see how that's supposed to help with any of the

721
00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:19,239
stuff you just mentioned about cutting some spending, about how

722
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,880
about you know, I get that doses doing that, but

723
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,679
people I see are overestimating what is possible. When you're

724
00:40:27,679 --> 00:40:30,800
talking about discretionary spending, you know you can only cut

725
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,239
so much. And by the way, I saw Donald Trump

726
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,280
was saying he wants to expand military spending to like

727
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,679
buy a trillion dollars or something. I mean, we you

728
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,360
cannot cut the debt if you keep spending more and

729
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,800
you never touch in titlements and you never touch the military,

730
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,400
and you never touch anything else. Oh man, that was

731
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,760
all over the place. But listen, it's a really big say.

732
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:56,559
Speaker 2: Some of this drama could lead to a restructuring refinancing

733
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,880
of our debt, and I do think that's another big

734
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,440
of the Trump administration.

735
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,159
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that wasn't happening this morning, right, I mean

736
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:04,840
the I.

737
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: Know, well, it's not happening this morning because China is

738
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:10,000
really making a push again, you know, to scare everybody,

739
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,559
but they might not be able to sustain that over

740
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:15,679
the long term. Plus you might see drum Powell take

741
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,440
action here which would kill off that Chinese effort. So

742
00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,119
it's another reason why I'm not freaking out as much

743
00:41:22,199 --> 00:41:25,199
as you are. Is like everything changes like day to day.

744
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:27,440
You kind of have to give this a chance to work.

745
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,119
If you're not going to stop it right away, I

746
00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:30,719
understand you want to stop it right away.

747
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I want to quickly say something that the

748
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,800
freak out. I'm not freaked out about the market really,

749
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,960
and everyone says, oh, the market pops back. Yeah, I

750
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,079
mean so then the Great Depression wasn't bad. The market

751
00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:43,960
pops back. No, The problem is that one hundred and

752
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,559
sixty million people have some connection to stocks. Right, there

753
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:50,159
are five twenty nine if for one case, et cetera.

754
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:53,159
But it's not just that. It's that small cap stocks

755
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:55,000
are taking a hit. All these stocks take a hit,

756
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:58,159
You're going to push the country into recession, and people,

757
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,000
working class people first will use their jobs. Trust me,

758
00:42:03,199 --> 00:42:05,360
the hedge fudge guy who loses a ton of money,

759
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,800
he's still going to be okay. It's normal. People are

760
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,280
going to pay the price, and we should be worried

761
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,880
about that when we do dramatic This isn't a business deal.

762
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,280
This is a government we're talking about. Actually, can I

763
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,760
take a quick step back, say one last thing. Trump

764
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,360
should not be able to do this at all. To

765
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,800
begin with, it is unconstitutional for the president to unilaterally

766
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,719
put taxes on American people. And Congress is so weak

767
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,960
and they just do not care about their institution. They've

768
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,880
given away all their power. And this is part of that,

769
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,840
we would have a very long drawn out debate about

770
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,320
what kind of tariff regime we'd want or not want

771
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,000
in Congress, not on the whims of one person anyway.

772
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: Well, I agree with that, but that ship sailed long ago,

773
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,599
where we have allowed the president to set these things

774
00:42:54,639 --> 00:42:56,519
for so long. I mean, I totally agree. I'm an

775
00:42:56,599 --> 00:43:00,280
Article one enthusiast. Congress alone should have this power art,

776
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,920
but they gave it up. In fact, I think they

777
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,480
even passed a law saying that presidents could do this,

778
00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:06,119
which is why.

779
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:07,639
Speaker 1: That law is unconstitutional.

780
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: Right, Maybe, so we'll see what Amy Coney, Barrett and

781
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:11,599
John Roberts have.

782
00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: Well, can I say something about that quickly? These freaking judges, sorry,

783
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:18,400
stop Trump from doing all kinds of things that are

784
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,599
clearly under the purview of the executive branch. But the

785
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,880
thing that is obviously not, no one does anything about it.

786
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,960
I mean, it's it just blows my mind. Yeah, I'm sorry,

787
00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:29,920
Let's talk about something else. This is a very passionate

788
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,880
subject for me, which is weird. I think people are,

789
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:37,280
like tariffs are passionate subject for you. But that's a

790
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,920
weird thing to be into. Can I say one last

791
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,880
thing before I leave. Everyone says, what if you're wrong,

792
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,800
You're going to be wrong. But I'm not going to

793
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,800
be wrong. I'm not. I don't have a PhD in

794
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,599
economics or anything. I read Thomas Soul, I read Milton Friedman.

795
00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:51,440
I read a bunch of people I trust. It's their

796
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,719
ideas I rely on, not my own. And if they're wrong,

797
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,480
I'll have to burn all my Thomas Soul books. I

798
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:01,519
guess I don't know what are you talking about next?

799
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:03,920
Do you want to talk about Amy Coney Barrett's and

800
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,599
she mentioned her.

801
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 2: I don't think we have time for that. Let's do

802
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:07,280
it next week.

803
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,039
Speaker 1: Mike Gallon and Jim Vanda Hay all right, so there

804
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:11,280
was this.

805
00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: It's Jim Vanda High.

806
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 1: Vanda High so hey, he started Political Right, I think so.

807
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,280
And Axios I believe yep. I was confused those two anyway.

808
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 2: I made up both of those.

809
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, they started the Daily Bugle. Let's just talk

810
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,360
about I'm not sure who said it, but let's just

811
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,199
go through it. So there's something of a discussion in

812
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,800
the on the professional left within journalism to why people

813
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,400
don't trust journalism, journalists anymore and these outlets anymore. I

814
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,119
mean obviously they're if I remember correctly, most polls showed

815
00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:51,119
that people trust them less than they trust lawyers, and

816
00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:55,639
you know, the I R s people usually hate. So

817
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,559
Jim Vanda High came up with three reasons why, which

818
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:06,760
he thinks kind of corroded public trust. One is Twitter

819
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,119
exposed I'm sorry, this is just I'm paraphrasing.

820
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: You know.

821
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: It was a long interview. But one is Twitter exposed

822
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,880
the bias of most journalists, you know, which I think

823
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:22,360
is actually a really big problem. But maybe I shouldn't

824
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,920
call it a problem. I think it just exposed people

825
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,480
for who they are, and that's probably good to know.

826
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:29,679
Do you agree with that?

827
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,079
Speaker 2: I do. I have always thought that Twitter's greatest gift

828
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:38,639
was that it exposed how much worse our journalists were

829
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,400
than we already thought. But I have a thought I

830
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:43,320
have a comment on that.

831
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, in I.

832
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: Don't remember what it was, but I think it was

833
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,880
like before twenty thirteen, there was this story about Kermit Gosnell,

834
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,920
this abortionist in Philadelphia, and he had been allowed to

835
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:04,039
operate for decades, this horrific and he was in he

836
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:08,639
was charged, A grand jury was gathered and he was

837
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,159
charged with some of the murders he committed of born

838
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,920
children and women, and he ended up being convicted on them.

839
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,760
And when that story came out, it was like a

840
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,960
really big story about an abortionist delivering children, killing them

841
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:25,320
and then even killing poor immigrant women. He was doing

842
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:31,960
stuff like less treatment for immigrant women or black women.

843
00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:34,400
He himself was black, but he would give better treatment

844
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,239
to white women, white citizens than other women who came

845
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,360
to seek abortions from him. And it was just unquestionably

846
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:46,679
a massive story about a serial murderer who was an abortionist,

847
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:50,760
and the media barely covered it. And I was on

848
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,079
Twitter and I just used to like ask everybody who

849
00:46:53,159 --> 00:46:56,440
covered abortion why they weren't covering it, and their answers

850
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:59,800
were horrific, Like I don't remember the name of the

851
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,519
lady who was at the Washington Post, but she said, Hi, Molly,

852
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,559
I'm a health policy reporter. I don't cover local crime,

853
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,519
thank you. And when people saw that, they were so horrified, like,

854
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,440
you know, George Floyd's a local crime story, but somehow

855
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,960
that goes global. But when Kermit Gosnell's killing a bunch

856
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,079
of women and children, that's just a local crime story.

857
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,559
They revealed on Twitter just how bad they were. It

858
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:26,760
was like the heyday of Twitter, where people just didn't

859
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,519
really think through their responses, and it did a lot

860
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,599
to make people not trust the stories media we're telling.

861
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,159
Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, this is the first time that

862
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,039
the name I heard. I remember hearing the name Molly Hemingway.

863
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:41,679
You were a big part of that story. Was it

864
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,960
that around to twenty ten something like that.

865
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: I don't remember, but there was a movie made and

866
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,519
there's a compositive character of me and another journalist named

867
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:51,079
Molly something I can't remember.

868
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I so we agreed that it exposed them. Then

869
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:02,039
the other one he has is the coverage of COVID

870
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:04,400
and how bad that was. Now I totally agree. I

871
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,639
think COVID is going to be remembered as a very

872
00:48:06,639 --> 00:48:10,800
pivotal moment in American political history that could change the

873
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,679
way a lot of people view the world expertise. It's

874
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,639
turned people against experts, but it's also left a vacuum

875
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,000
of expertise in the sense that we don't trust even

876
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:23,000
anyone anymore. And I think it's a huge problem. And

877
00:48:23,039 --> 00:48:27,400
it's the expert class that created that problem, not the

878
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,840
people you know. And then the lack of coverage of

879
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:36,320
biding during his presidency, essentially that he was basically, you know,

880
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,119
unable to make decisions and to be president. He has

881
00:48:41,159 --> 00:48:42,519
a couple of you know, he says, these are a

882
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:46,719
couple of bad breaks and a couple of you know,

883
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:51,119
bad apples leading the way. Now. I always go back

884
00:48:51,159 --> 00:48:55,079
to the Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh for me was the breaking point

885
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:57,760
completely where it was no longer something that you could

886
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,960
call bias in any way, and it was just active

887
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,119
by the media to destroy someone that they didn't like, right,

888
00:49:03,679 --> 00:49:06,960
and they all participated. It was just just a bad apples.

889
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,239
Almost every outlet I can think of participated in that.

890
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,280
And then they all participated in the Russia collusion hoax.

891
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,039
They were participants. And if they weren't participants, and they shouldn't

892
00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:22,320
be in journalism because they're idiots. So I wrote a.

893
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 2: Book on Trump for a little booklet on Trump versus

894
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,320
the media back early in his term. And one of

895
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,920
the things I did was ask people when they lost

896
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,039
their trust in the media. So I'm asking people in

897
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:38,239
twenty seventeen because unlike Mike Allen and Jim Vandahei, I

898
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,960
knew what was going on in twenty seventeen and in

899
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,280
fact had known for a long time by that point,

900
00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,880
so when I talked to people, their answers were things

901
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:53,519
like the Hurricane Katrina, or the Duke Lacrosse rape hoax,

902
00:49:54,719 --> 00:50:01,000
or things like even predating that people outside of Mike

903
00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:05,519
Allen and Jim Vandahi's tiny, tiny, tiny little bubble have

904
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:08,599
been losing trust in the media for decades. I think

905
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:12,239
another really obvious example you might have made would have

906
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,760
been twenty sixteen, when one hundred percent of the people

907
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,599
in the media assured everybody that it was literally impossible

908
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:21,920
for Donald Trump to win the election, and then he

909
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,159
did so. I think these examples are cute and funny,

910
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,400
but like ridiculous too, because it's such a long standing issue.

911
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:36,119
To not mention the Russia collusion hoax in particular is

912
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:39,440
a laugh. And of course Mike Allen and Jim Vanda

913
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:43,039
High were participants in that. They were publishing part of

914
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:47,280
the hoax material, so they can't really admit it. I

915
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,719
saw a little bit or read a little bit of

916
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,800
what the response was, and I think the only way

917
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,199
to say, because like he also said, I think was

918
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:59,920
Mike Allen said that they didn't cover Joe Biden's obvious

919
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:03,840
mental decline because they didn't want to seem like ideologues.

920
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:08,039
Are you bleeping kidding me right now? You didn't want

921
00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:13,920
to seem like ideologues for whom like they were being ideological.

922
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:18,039
They weren't covering Biden because they had a deep seated

923
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,440
dislike of anyone challenging the status quo, which was Donald Trump.

924
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,760
They knew that if they reported honestly and accurately and

925
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,519
fairly about what everybody could see, that it might help

926
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:33,039
them lose power someone who came in, someone might be

927
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:35,440
able to come in who would disrupt the status quo.

928
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,719
They're nothing but ideologues, and like, the only response to

929
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,800
someone who says, we didn't cover Biden's obvious mental decline

930
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,679
because we didn't want to be ideologues is to laugh

931
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,559
uproariously in their face for five minutes.

932
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:54,119
Speaker 1: Vanda Hi is wrong in that, even if you had

933
00:51:54,119 --> 00:51:57,519
a few bad apples leading the way, where was he

934
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:00,960
and where was everyone else challenging those bad apples like that,

935
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:04,559
there's no one who said, wait a minute, Biden doesn't

936
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:07,119
look I remember I wrote a piece I think it

937
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:09,159
was titled like stop trying to convince me Joe Biden

938
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:11,480
isn't a confused, huttering old man or something like that.

939
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:13,599
And I was written up in one I forget what

940
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,480
outlet is one of the conspiracy theorists about Joe Biden.

941
00:52:17,679 --> 00:52:19,280
No one came to my deffin not that I'm that

942
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,079
big in voice, but no one came to people like

943
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,639
mine defense saying, hey, he doesn't look okay. You know,

944
00:52:25,679 --> 00:52:28,320
he wandered off into a field and the Italian Prime

945
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,400
Minister had to like lead him back, you know. And

946
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,360
then when we saw that debate, it all blew up

947
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,400
and all of a sudden, they just switched sides. They

948
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,320
just literally pushed him out of the election. I mean,

949
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,400
this is not journalism. So I think the probably is

950
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,280
that we keep calling these people journalists when they're not.

951
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,599
Speaker 2: And as evidence of this too, they kicked him out

952
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,960
of the primary, or they kicked him out. Yeah, the

953
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,880
kicked him out of the presidential election, but they didn't

954
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,159
kick him out of the presidency, as if the looming

955
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,719
presidential election is more important than the remaining seven or

956
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,840
eight months he had in the president And see.

957
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: And I quickly want to say, I've always said this,

958
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,960
I don't everyone has some kind of ideological view. They

959
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,400
see the world through that view. No one can be

960
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,920
perfectly unbiased, and I'm fine with that as long as

961
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,480
you're honest about it. Like I feel like I've done

962
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:17,880
journalism in the past from a certain perspective. I don't

963
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,920
lie about it, but it has to be true. The

964
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,880
Russian Russian conspiracy theory was a lie. They knew it

965
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,079
was a lie. The Kavanaugh stuff was a lie. They

966
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:27,920
spread it on purpose. And also Van der Hay doesn't

967
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,360
mention that, yeah, there are a few bad, worse apples,

968
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,480
but the others spread their stuff all over the place,

969
00:53:33,519 --> 00:53:37,800
So what's that stupid? Pro Publica will publish something right

970
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,039
because they have literally no journalistic standards, and then but

971
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,639
New York Times won't publish that. But then they will

972
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,400
spread what pro Publica says. You know what I'm saying.

973
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,320
So it's like this little it's like the Vietnamese taking

974
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,199
Chinese products. It's selling it to ust, you know what

975
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,320
I mean. So I yeah, that's what they do.

976
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: I was exactly right. I was looking at pro public

977
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,280
As nine to ninety form where they have to list

978
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,599
like what they spend their money on, and they said

979
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:08,840
that they're yourphalist, like your three biggest things that you

980
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,039
did the previous year. So for their twenty twenty three

981
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:15,199
tax form, they brought in like fifty three million dollars

982
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:20,119
all from crazy left wing entities. So they like to

983
00:54:20,119 --> 00:54:23,559
present themselves as impartial journalists. It's like, so interesting that

984
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:27,960
your impartial journalism only targets the right and is only

985
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,199
funded by crazy left wingers. Isn't that interesting? But they

986
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,960
they did all of that money, spend almost like all

987
00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:40,480
of it on targeting Clarence Thomas and Justice Alito. They

988
00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:43,320
said that their three biggest things they did was target

989
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,480
the justices and they launched they said as one of

990
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:50,880
their successes that they had supported the Democrat strategy for

991
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,119
ethics inquiries into these people. Their second biggest thing was

992
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:59,400
going after Leonard Leo, who is widely perceived as being

993
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,360
like supportive of these justices. And then their third thing

994
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:07,039
was like they ran one article on pacemakers or something.

995
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,840
So like of the top three things, too, were there

996
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:18,440
years long campaign against it to delegitimize the Supreme Court.

997
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,960
If they were as real journalists and not complete brazen.

998
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: Activists, yeah, if they were ideological, but you know, gave

999
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,079
us valuable stories. You know that maybe we don't like

1000
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:32,639
but are true. There would be one thing, but I

1001
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:36,840
remember they're the ones who concocted and spread that story

1002
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,480
right before the election because everyone thought abortion was going

1003
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:42,239
to sing Trump that a woman in Georgia had been

1004
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,639
killed because she wasn't allowed to have an abortion, and

1005
00:55:44,639 --> 00:55:46,480
it was a lie. She had taken the abortion pills

1006
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:51,039
and that's what killed her, and that's not true. It

1007
00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:55,079
is obviously activism. So I zero respect for the end

1008
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:57,239
and their whole goal is just to destroy the court.

1009
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,159
You notice that Congress doesn't have a bill up for

1010
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:07,079
the Supreme Court reform bill up anymore for voting such.

1011
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 2: An urgent need to get that last year?

1012
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Or where's the bill to get rid of the filibuster?

1013
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,800
I don't see that anywhere. Filibuster reform right. You know

1014
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,760
what the sad thing is. I am a huge fan

1015
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,800
of the filibuster, but I think that as soon as

1016
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,320
Democrats have control, they are going to destroy it. You know,

1017
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:26,239
they they say that about Republicans, but they're the ones

1018
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,719
who don't care. And you know, I don't know where

1019
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:29,159
that ends.

1020
00:56:29,199 --> 00:56:33,199
Speaker 2: But well, on that, we might want to make a

1021
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,559
little mention. I said not to talk about the Supreme Court.

1022
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,480
But what did you think about what they've done this week?

1023
00:56:39,559 --> 00:56:42,159
Speaker 1: Well, I think it proves that we don't have constitutional emergencies.

1024
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:44,360
That the Trump administration was right to take it to,

1025
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,880
you know, take it up the chain of courts. I

1026
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,119
think I wish the Supreme Court was maybe Congress needs

1027
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:53,679
to do it, but I wish the Supreme Court was

1028
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,599
a little harsher on judges who inject themselves into the

1029
00:56:56,639 --> 00:57:00,760
process where they don't belong on constitutionally. And I actually

1030
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,760
think for instance, the aliens alien what's it.

1031
00:57:03,679 --> 00:57:05,639
Speaker 2: Called, the Alien Act, Alien Enemies Act.

1032
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: Alien Enemies Act. I thought that was a good decision

1033
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,320
that actually injected allowed Trump to use it, but also

1034
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,880
injected some process into it, like I wanted, you know, so,

1035
00:57:15,039 --> 00:57:17,400
I think it was kind of not totally a victory

1036
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,679
for the administration, but I do think it was a

1037
00:57:19,719 --> 00:57:20,280
good decision.

1038
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,079
Speaker 2: I actually think it was a complete victory for the administration.

1039
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,559
Everyone was making a big deal about how it said, like,

1040
00:57:25,639 --> 00:57:27,679
of course, these people have due process and need to

1041
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:31,159
be notified of that under you know that they can

1042
00:57:31,199 --> 00:57:35,679
file a habeas petition. They always could file a habeas petition.

1043
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,880
They purposely didn't file a habeas petition because they would

1044
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,320
have lost. They went to Bosberg and they tried to

1045
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,639
do this like Administrative Procedures Act challenge, and he allowed it,

1046
00:57:47,679 --> 00:57:51,639
even though the jurisdiction was always under habeas, which would

1047
00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:52,599
have been a different court.

1048
00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: And so but then the Trump administration argued that they

1049
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,960
could throw them out before before that, you know, before

1050
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:02,239
they had any right to that kind of process.

1051
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,519
Speaker 2: So I think that was a big win a court,

1052
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:09,840
you know, just and if you care about rule of law.

1053
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:13,159
But there's still the larger issue that the Court needs

1054
00:58:13,159 --> 00:58:16,519
to provide some guidance to lower court judges about when,

1055
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:23,639
where and how nationwide injunctions can be imposed or just something,

1056
00:58:23,679 --> 00:58:26,960
because it's like the number of cases that are running

1057
00:58:27,079 --> 00:58:30,000
like a like an out of control train at the

1058
00:58:30,039 --> 00:58:35,679
Supreme Court is untenable, and the fear and cowardice in

1059
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,559
just setting some guidelines is not making much sense. You've

1060
00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:43,519
had justices on both you know, both Democrat nominated and

1061
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:49,880
Republican nominated justices saying we can't have this issue where

1062
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,079
people just go to a friendly judge to get a

1063
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:57,119
nationwide injunction. Alena Kagan has said it. Clarence Thomas has

1064
00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:00,360
repeatedly said it for a long time. Gorst said it

1065
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,800
nearly his entire time on the court, and it just

1066
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,400
needs to be dealt with and pretend like covering your

1067
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,679
eyes and ears and acting like it's not going to happen,

1068
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:10,920
like it's all going to be okay, is not going

1069
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:11,320
to cut it.

1070
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,199
Speaker 1: I don't have expertise on this, so maybe I'm wrong

1071
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,239
in this theory, but it seems to me like Amy

1072
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,239
Coney Barrett cares very much about process, Like I think

1073
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:25,320
her decisions actually have a common theme and philosophy, Whereas

1074
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,719
Roberts will inject himself into like Obama Care and rewrite

1075
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,360
the law to make it work because he wants democracy

1076
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,440
to run things.

1077
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: But then then claim that he wants to defer to.

1078
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,599
Speaker 1: Congress that any well, yeah, and here defer to common

1079
00:59:37,639 --> 00:59:39,960
So there is no consistency there. I know people are

1080
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,119
mad at Amy Cony Barrett. I think she's more consistent

1081
00:59:43,239 --> 00:59:44,800
than they give her credit for. But I am not

1082
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,400
like a judicial expert or anything.

1083
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,519
Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this yesterday about Amy Coney

1084
00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:54,039
Barrett's strategy. She has definitely consistently said that she cares

1085
00:59:54,199 --> 00:59:58,280
about process, letting things like slowly work their way through

1086
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,880
the lower courts. She's alway is going to be looking

1087
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,960
for like the most modest approach to take, and she

1088
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:11,360
views this as a form of judicial restraint. So judicial restraint,

1089
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,119
you know, I think it starts like the phrase I

1090
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:16,559
think maybe is first used at the end of the

1091
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:20,039
eighteen hundreds. But this idea again that you will let

1092
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:22,559
Congress make the laws, that you don't intervene unless you

1093
01:00:22,639 --> 01:00:25,840
absolutely have to. And it can also be a form

1094
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,400
of letting other courts handle things so that the Supreme

1095
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,920
Court doesn't have to handle everything. And you might think

1096
01:00:31,239 --> 01:00:35,440
that this preserves the legitimacy of the court. But I

1097
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:39,119
was thinking about it almost as it relates to foreign policy.

1098
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:44,639
You know, I hate the term isolationist, right, but if

1099
01:00:44,679 --> 01:00:48,079
you take people who get that, who get that slur

1100
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,000
lodged at them, I think a better way to describe

1101
01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:54,559
them as restrainers. They just as a matter of principle,

1102
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,719
believe in restraint of the military. Now nearby to restrainers

1103
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:05,000
relative to the neo KHN interventionists would be realists. Realists

1104
01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:07,960
do not believe in restraint as a matter of principle,

1105
01:01:08,239 --> 01:01:11,840
although they might be inclined toward it, but they think

1106
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:14,559
sometimes you just need to take out a bad guy.

1107
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,679
So if Solomoni is killing a bunch of Americans, you're

1108
01:01:18,719 --> 01:01:22,079
not saying do nothing, and you're not saying in Vaderran,

1109
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:24,880
You're just saying, we're gonna take them out and then

1110
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,320
we're gonna get out of here. Okay. I think Amy

1111
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,519
cony Berry is on the isolationist side of judicial restraint

1112
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,800
and that she should move to the realist side of

1113
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:42,480
judicial restraint, meaning her instincts are not bad. In fact,

1114
01:01:42,559 --> 01:01:47,400
they're healthy for the longer term. But she should understand

1115
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:53,000
too that sometimes doing nothing is actually just not a

1116
01:01:53,039 --> 01:01:57,440
good way to solve the problem and that and I

1117
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,119
think this is something that she'll learn with maturity. This

1118
01:02:00,159 --> 01:02:02,960
is her fourth term on the court, and it is

1119
01:02:03,039 --> 01:02:05,639
commonly believed that you have to give a justice like

1120
01:02:05,719 --> 01:02:07,840
three years before you get a feel for who they are.

1121
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,360
In her case, her first term on the court, she

1122
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,800
did not even meet some of the other justices until

1123
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,360
that spring because it was COVID closure. And the next

1124
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,719
year was also very weird due to COVID closures, and

1125
01:02:22,599 --> 01:02:25,800
it just was kind of like not the best friendliest

1126
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,800
bringing in to the systems of the Court. And she

1127
01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:35,159
also was only a federal judge for about you know,

1128
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,960
longer than David's suitor, but not that much longer. She

1129
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,280
had only been on the Seventh Circuit for a couple

1130
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,960
of years, like less than two years. I think when

1131
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,079
she gets the call to become a Supreme Court justice,

1132
01:02:47,599 --> 01:02:50,360
prior to that, she was one of the country's most

1133
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,480
well regarded law professors. Right. You see this in her writing.

1134
01:02:54,559 --> 01:02:58,079
She's it's like, I have a seven part thing, and

1135
01:02:58,119 --> 01:03:00,519
I'm gonna agree with this and not with this, And

1136
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:03,079
she's like way overthinking everything in a way that an

1137
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:05,800
academic might like, it's good that our court does not

1138
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,880
have a ton of politicians, but sometimes we move too

1139
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,519
far into the law professor's side of things. And so

1140
01:03:12,199 --> 01:03:14,559
I think the ideal situation is that with a little

1141
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:18,679
more time, she realizes, oh, there's a reason why all

1142
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:24,400
the conservative justices are just like making clear decisions, not

1143
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,639
just because it avoids some of the problems, but because

1144
01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:31,400
it provides clarity to the lower judges. A seven part

1145
01:03:31,639 --> 01:03:35,800
convoluted opinion that she's known for is not providing clarity

1146
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,559
to the lower courts, and her job is to provide clarity.

1147
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,320
It's not her nature, it's not her background. But she

1148
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,400
could get there, or she could just like continue down

1149
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,719
the path she's on where she's getting praised by the

1150
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,920
New York Times and Slight and making friends with Katanji

1151
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,280
Brown Jackson and all that stuff. Like, she kind of

1152
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,960
has a decision to make, and I honestly have no

1153
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:57,239
idea what that decision will be. But if I were

1154
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,239
her advisers, I would encourage her to move to the

1155
01:04:00,239 --> 01:04:04,320
realist side of judicial restraint and away from the extremist,

1156
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,719
like isolationist side of judicial restraint.

1157
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:11,199
Speaker 1: I like your foreign policy analogy in the sense that

1158
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,400
I believe my foreign policy is like non ideological, whatever

1159
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:19,360
works to help American interests. I'm for it, But I

1160
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,519
do think if you're so, if you're in the court,

1161
01:04:21,639 --> 01:04:25,960
you should be relentlessly and obsessively thinking about how do

1162
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,159
I uphold the Constitution? But can Congress? I still don't

1163
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:31,559
have an answer for this, and I wonder if you do.

1164
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:35,079
Can Congress come in make a law eliminate me.

1165
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:37,719
Speaker 2: They absolutely could not, like this Congress can do anything,

1166
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,840
but they conceivably a Congress could do it. I want

1167
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,800
to push back on what you just said about like

1168
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:48,440
relentless adherence to the Constitution. I think you need to

1169
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:53,679
recognize that everybody who's a Republican appointed justice believes that

1170
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,920
they are adhering to the Constitution. Possibly even John Roberts,

1171
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:59,880
although I don't think he makes it. I don't mean

1172
01:05:00,159 --> 01:05:02,400
like as a particular insult him. I just don't think

1173
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,599
he thinks that's like a big part of his job.

1174
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:10,639
But you actually should have some focus on pragmatism and

1175
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:15,239
how what you say will be able to be understood

1176
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,199
by a lower court, because the Supreme Court does have

1177
01:05:18,239 --> 01:05:21,239
these inferior courts that are to follow it, and if

1178
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,039
you make it incomprehensible for them, you're just not doing

1179
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:27,559
your job very well. And there are two separate things here.

1180
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:29,719
First off, I want to just talk about the pragmatism.

1181
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,760
I love Justice Gorsage. I really really love him. I

1182
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:37,840
think he's just a brilliant mind, and I love his courage.

1183
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,719
I love many things about him. He made a joke

1184
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,559
at the Federalist Society a few months ago about how

1185
01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:47,039
he was speaking so long that it was keeping people

1186
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:49,880
from getting to the bar. But as they knew, he

1187
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,599
didn't care about the consequences of what he did. And

1188
01:05:53,679 --> 01:05:56,679
he was making a joke because of this decision that

1189
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:01,320
he authored with the left wing justices on I don't

1190
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,599
remember who else was in it, but it was about

1191
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:10,079
it affected Oklahoma, and it was about whether Native tribes

1192
01:06:10,159 --> 01:06:14,480
are subject to American laws in some sense and basically

1193
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:17,480
turned well over half of Oklahoma into like a law

1194
01:06:17,519 --> 01:06:22,400
free zone. It was because of his belief in the

1195
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:25,079
you know, I assume it's because of his belief in

1196
01:06:25,119 --> 01:06:27,599
the Constitution that he did this. It's been a complete

1197
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:30,960
nightmare for everybody, and we'll probably need to know. Someone's

1198
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,119
going to need like if you've got like a child

1199
01:06:33,159 --> 01:06:35,800
abuse of a Native person of someone else, there's like

1200
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,239
nothing the law can do, you know. And there can

1201
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:44,320
be repercussions to this strict adherence, and it should be

1202
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,840
balanced with pragmatism for the effects of what you do.

1203
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,239
And I would say that about the entire conservative movement.

1204
01:06:52,639 --> 01:06:57,079
Adherence to principle is so important, and so is understanding

1205
01:06:57,719 --> 01:07:01,440
the manner in which you implement that. And the it's

1206
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,679
like you were just talking at the beginning, they've done

1207
01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:06,599
a poor job of implementing this tariff policy. Well, that's

1208
01:07:06,599 --> 01:07:10,559
not a principal issue. That's a prudential issue, but prudence

1209
01:07:10,639 --> 01:07:14,760
does matter, and the justices should balance that, and so

1210
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:19,840
should all Americans, like all conservatives, should adhere to principle

1211
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:21,800
and also think about strategy.

1212
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:27,079
Speaker 1: I agree with you on prudence on lawmaking and implementing policy,

1213
01:07:27,159 --> 01:07:33,119
but I think that worrying about pragmatic solutions as a

1214
01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:35,480
judge is kind of a cancer that grows into you

1215
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:36,599
making laws.

1216
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think that's the legitimate concern.

1217
01:07:39,719 --> 01:07:43,719
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, do you want to talk about culture?

1218
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:44,960
I don't know how long we've been on.

1219
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't really have much, but go ahead.

1220
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:54,199
Speaker 1: I watched I was watching a show called whether we've

1221
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:57,199
spoken about, called The Pit. I like, I binge watched

1222
01:07:57,239 --> 01:08:00,440
most of the first season. I guess that's that's a

1223
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,159
really nerve wracking show. Right. Did you let me just

1224
01:08:05,159 --> 01:08:07,000
say how many episodes of you know you haven't really

1225
01:08:07,039 --> 01:08:07,440
watched it?

1226
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: Zero?

1227
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: I thought you said you did. I guess it was Mark.

1228
01:08:13,199 --> 01:08:16,800
It's really well done. I never watched er or shows

1229
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,920
like that, but I guess maybe it's something like that.

1230
01:08:19,039 --> 01:08:22,920
So it's just one day in the life of an

1231
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:27,159
emergency room. And Noah Wiley, who I think actually was

1232
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:29,079
in the YR I don never watched it is the

1233
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,520
kind of the chief doctor of the emergency room, and

1234
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,159
he's as a doctor, as a fake doctor. He's a

1235
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:37,800
magnificent I think he runs that place really well. He

1236
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,800
shows compassion, he helps people, you know, when he has

1237
01:08:40,840 --> 01:08:45,279
to do, and all that. The only it's a little bit.

1238
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:50,159
They have real up close views of operations and things.

1239
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:53,520
I could do without all that. Yeah, yeah, but I

1240
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:55,279
will and I will say that there are some kind

1241
01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:59,520
of subplots that are are sometimes annoyingly lefty, you know

1242
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,920
what I mean, Like the trans person, Like every social

1243
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:05,359
thing that we talk about shows up in an episode.

1244
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:08,399
It's kind of like after school specially in that way.

1245
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,399
But overall, I think it's a pretty good show. And

1246
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,279
the other thing that I watched was Draft Day? Have

1247
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:20,840
you ever seen that with Kevin Costner? Noep. It's about

1248
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,920
a gm in who runs the Cleveland Browns and he

1249
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,760
makes a very bad trade on draft Day and the

1250
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,880
rest of the movie is about how he corrects it.

1251
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,039
And I want to say, what was it called idiot plot?

1252
01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:35,960
Where a whole movie revolves on people being very stupid?

1253
01:09:36,079 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 2: You understand that at all?

1254
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,520
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what this movie is, though I still enjoyed it.

1255
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,239
He makes this terrible trade and then he like reverses

1256
01:09:43,239 --> 01:09:44,960
and does all this stuff, and in the end he's

1257
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,359
celebrated for like saving the day. But I reverse engineered

1258
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:50,319
this movie and I thought about all the trades he

1259
01:09:50,359 --> 01:09:52,479
made and none of it makes any sense. So but

1260
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:54,880
if you'd like football, you probably enjoyed I like that.

1261
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,840
Kevin Costner makes lots of like all American sports films,

1262
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,840
you know, we don't have enough those, and that's all

1263
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,159
I have.

1264
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: Okay. I have been traveling a lot and that got

1265
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:15,039
me some hikes in in Arizona and Tucson. Arizona, which

1266
01:10:15,039 --> 01:10:19,840
I've never been to before, is just absolutely beautiful. I

1267
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,880
would love to go back to hikes more. And the

1268
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,840
cacti and the weird animals they have, like javalinas, which

1269
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:27,760
are rodents that look like pigs.

1270
01:10:29,239 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: Really, I've never seen those. I've been out.

1271
01:10:31,079 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, I did, and it was terrifying, but it was

1272
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:39,279
just beautiful and wonderful. And I was also in Florida

1273
01:10:39,399 --> 01:10:42,279
in Tallahassee, which is like a different kind of pretty.

1274
01:10:42,319 --> 01:10:44,800
I was speaking at this thing called Word of the South,

1275
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:51,279
and it's an interesting music lecture hybrid. So I was

1276
01:10:51,319 --> 01:10:55,880
speaking with the Wall Street Journal Supreme Court reporter, and

1277
01:10:58,119 --> 01:11:01,199
we had our thing was so his name is Jess

1278
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:04,399
Braven and then we were moderated by this guy named

1279
01:11:04,399 --> 01:11:08,560
Del Scuggs, who Scruggs, who is a local musician, and

1280
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,479
so he would play a song and then he would

1281
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:13,399
ask a question, and then he would play a song

1282
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:15,479
and then ask a question and it was really interesting.

1283
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,640
But like George Clinton was down there giving a concert.

1284
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:22,159
On my ride from the airport, I was in a

1285
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:28,039
car with a bunch of musicians, including bj the Chicago Kid,

1286
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,399
and there was that really, oh, who's that? Like very

1287
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:36,560
famous guitar player slash producer. Sorry, I guess he's not that,

1288
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,119
is it? Larry Mitchell was in my elevator. Do you

1289
01:11:40,119 --> 01:11:40,720
know who that is?

1290
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: He got like.

1291
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,159
Speaker 2: Belong dreads, He wears a cowboy hat, black guy, really

1292
01:11:45,159 --> 01:11:49,960
great guitarist and also is like affiliated with a bunch

1293
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:53,239
of backs. Anyway, so that was kind of fun.

1294
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: And George Clinton has to be in his eighties right.

1295
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 2: Mark and I saw him perform a few years ago

1296
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,760
during and he sat for the entire show, and he

1297
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:08,359
did this show as well, and then still slowly like

1298
01:12:08,359 --> 01:12:11,920
I've barely been home, but watched another episode of Say Nothing,

1299
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,560
which is good, and also finished White Lotus.

1300
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 1: I heard, so I have not watched any of these

1301
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:23,079
people say the first season was great, second season less great,

1302
01:12:23,079 --> 01:12:26,600
in the third season even less great. Do you agree

1303
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:26,880
with that?

1304
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,199
Speaker 2: No, I think this might have been my favorite season.

1305
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:33,159
But I thought all three were really good. I think

1306
01:12:33,159 --> 01:12:36,399
they're good. I just find the guy who Mike White.

1307
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,239
I find him interesting. This one was more I had

1308
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:44,640
to fast forward through in terms of sex stuff, including

1309
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,760
homosexual incest, which is just not something I want in

1310
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:57,159
my mind. And Kylie wrote Kylie Griswold wrote a really

1311
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:01,039
good piece on it about the spiritual themes and the

1312
01:13:01,119 --> 01:13:04,720
cost of Christianity for the Federalist that I would recommend.

1313
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: But it's funny to hear someone say other than the

1314
01:13:09,319 --> 01:13:13,720
homosexual incest sex scene, it's a pretty good show.

1315
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:17,199
Speaker 2: I don't know. In my dotage, I'm getting like less

1316
01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:18,840
tolerant of even watching these things.

1317
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,640
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this quickly. Is Walton Goggins involved

1318
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:23,920
in that scene? I hope not.

1319
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 2: I don't want to give away any spoilers, Okay, don't

1320
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,600
get Also, one of the things I really liked about

1321
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,239
this is that it had so three was kind of

1322
01:13:33,239 --> 01:13:36,439
a theme in this show begins with like an image

1323
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:38,840
of that here no Evil See, no Evil Speak, No

1324
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,479
Evil Monkey trio. And then there are three kids in

1325
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:46,039
this one family, and there are three friends who are

1326
01:13:46,119 --> 01:13:50,560
on a trip and they are my age. Okay, three women,

1327
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:55,479
ones like a Hollywood starlet, one's a Texas Trump voter,

1328
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,399
and one's a New York divorcee whose life is a

1329
01:13:58,399 --> 01:14:02,039
bit of a mess. And they are childhood friends. And

1330
01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:04,239
one of the things I loved about this is that

1331
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:08,239
I also have a three way friendship from high school,

1332
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:12,760
junior high even that I'm still very close to these

1333
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:16,479
girls and we still sometimes go and do things. I

1334
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,760
think we're gonna see Devo together here in a couple

1335
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:22,800
of weeks, and we are very different, and you know,

1336
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:27,880
I'm I'm the Trump voter. But like, not that these

1337
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,159
three people lined up in any particular way, but some

1338
01:14:31,199 --> 01:14:35,119
of the conversations they had they just hit me because

1339
01:14:35,159 --> 01:14:37,479
I've had a lot of this myself. You know, when

1340
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,960
you're friends with someone for that many decades, you go

1341
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:43,840
through so much together. Everyone does, you know, everyone has

1342
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,640
their ups and downs. And it was just kind of

1343
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:47,560
nice to see it portrayed, and I was honestly a

1344
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:50,319
little surprised that a man could write some of those

1345
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:51,399
so interestingly.

1346
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: And well, it's funny that you bring up Divo because

1347
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,960
I actually was listening to them lately because they were

1348
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,600
two you know, well known for me to like and

1349
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,199
because when I was a music snob as a younger person.

1350
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,920
But the truth is, they were like completely transgressive and

1351
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,159
weird and interesting and so different from everything that was

1352
01:15:12,199 --> 01:15:15,520
going on. They're really really good and fun to listen to,

1353
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,920
which you think, Yeah, and I.

1354
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: Was in that club debo I think I told you about.

1355
01:15:20,359 --> 01:15:28,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, all right, great, Well, anyway, if you'd

1356
01:15:28,199 --> 01:15:29,880
like to email the show, you can do so at

1357
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:35,199
radio at the Federalist dot com. Thanks for discussing Taris

1358
01:15:35,319 --> 01:15:37,800
with me, you know, it gets me really excited to

1359
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,399
do and maybe we'll talk about it next week as well.

1360
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:42,840
Until then, Few lovers of freedom and anxious for the

1361
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:55,880
Fray