1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Ah, I'm Sam what you've seeing from Fort Worth, Texas 2 00:00:03,319 --> 00:00:05,240 and I play at Merivus to Country Club. 3 00:00:05,919 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 2: This is Golf. 4 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:08,679 Speaker 3: Smarter number four hundred and sixty. 5 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,440 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:23,480 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 8 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:28,359 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,960 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 10 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:34,679 Speaker 1: If in that shot you took the second or two 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,240 or five seconds to figure out I'm really going to 12 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,000 hit a seven iron, and you're not ambivalent, you make 13 00:00:40,039 --> 00:00:43,119 your best choice. You have met the first criteria of 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,320 the shot. The next criteria is to make sure you 15 00:00:46,399 --> 00:00:48,640 sort of feel the shot. How's it going to feel 16 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:51,000 if you're put right? You know, when we put we 17 00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:53,640 kind of walk halfway and this is the feel of it. 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,479 And then you get in and hit it. And it's 19 00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:59,039 that simple. And if you do those three things regardless 20 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:02,320 of the result, because we're only concerned with everything that 21 00:01:02,479 --> 00:01:05,760 happens before the ball leaves the club face, because after 22 00:01:05,799 --> 00:01:07,760 it leaves the club face, there's not a lot we 23 00:01:07,799 --> 00:01:10,239 can do. But if you do those three things, that 24 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:13,200 SHOT's a one for one. If you don't do all 25 00:01:13,239 --> 00:01:15,799 of those three things, you do not get the point, 26 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,840 and it's a zero for one. And again that's independent 27 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:22,200 of the result. You got one hundred shots, only fifty 28 00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:24,159 of them did you do it? The other fifty you 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,519 were smoking cigars chatting. If you apply this very simple concept, 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,799 it's hard not to increase your percentage to sixty or 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,840 even more maybe, and that really will have a huge 32 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:38,599 impact in the average golfer. 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,439 Speaker 3: Mastering Golf's Mental Game with author doctor Michael T. Larden. 34 00:01:47,599 --> 00:01:54,159 This is Golf Smarter. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Michael, Hi, Fred, 35 00:01:54,359 --> 00:01:54,959 how are you. 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm doing great. Nice to be here. Fred. 37 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,359 Speaker 4: It's great to have you back on the show. Your 38 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:02,680 first book, who was many years ago? 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: Right, two thousand and eight now hard to believe? 40 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:08,759 Speaker 4: Wow, Well, congratulations you've gone through a lot in that 41 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:15,080 time and professionally as well. But you have a new book, 42 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:19,520 Mastering Golf's Mental Game, the Ultimate Guide to better en 43 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:24,639 course performance and lower scores. Michael, I have a shelf 44 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:28,599 full of metal game books. Is why should I be 45 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,240 getting rid of all of them to keep yours. 46 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,159 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about getting rid of them all. 47 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,680 But this book is really designed to be a little 48 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,039 bit different, and it's modeled next to a very famous 49 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,479 book called Feeling Good by David Burns, which is a 50 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:50,400 psychology book and if you ever go to all the 51 00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:54,759 outpatient clinics, it's sort of a bible in the model 52 00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:57,960 is like this. That Feeling Good book is actually a 53 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,280 workbook where you look at pieces of your mindset and 54 00:03:03,319 --> 00:03:05,759 then you get to rate it and then you get 55 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:09,439 to reframe it. So if you get through the book, 56 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:12,960 you end up it's hard not to get better. And 57 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,719 this book is really set up for you to interact 58 00:03:15,759 --> 00:03:19,319 with the book. It has drills, it has ways in 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,360 which you can find out I'm strong in motivation, but 60 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:25,560 I'm weak in emotional control. And if that's the case, 61 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:28,680 these are exercises to get you better. So it's really 62 00:03:28,719 --> 00:03:31,680 meant to be a hands on book to help you improve. 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,879 Speaker 4: Well, it's clear that that's the case because you have 64 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,439 homework assignments, you have tests in it, which I found 65 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:41,599 to be a lot of fun. 66 00:03:41,879 --> 00:03:42,639 Speaker 3: And that is that. 67 00:03:42,759 --> 00:03:44,319 Speaker 4: The format of the other book is it give you 68 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,960 a little assignments as the across the board. 69 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the famous Feeling Good book is like that. 70 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:53,319 And really this book comes from you know, I get 71 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,919 calls all the time to work with various players of 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,280 various levels, and I don't have the time to do that. 73 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,800 I can barely work with the tour players that I 74 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,080 work with, and so at the university, I teach a 75 00:04:07,159 --> 00:04:11,840 curriculum for sports psychology, if you will, And really, this 76 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:16,759 book is a compilation of the curriculum I teach the 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,600 medical students and the residents who are interested in sports psychology. 78 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 3: I see, And where do you teach. 79 00:04:23,519 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: I'm at UCSD, the University of California, San Diego. I'm 80 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:28,800 a professor there. 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,519 Speaker 3: Good science school, right, very. 82 00:04:31,319 --> 00:04:33,519 Speaker 1: Good neuroscience, tremendous neuroscience. 83 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 4: Well that's good to know because I have a nephew 84 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:40,839 who went there and majored in neuroscience. Yeah yeah, yeah. 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,319 Now he's a professional musician. 86 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:44,879 Speaker 1: Oh, he's a smart he's a smart guy. 87 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,759 Speaker 3: He's the smartest drummer in on the stage. 88 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,439 Speaker 1: Of course. 89 00:04:50,319 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm going through because I dog eared a 90 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,439 whole lot of stuff in this book, and I don't 91 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:01,199 even know where to get started. On picking apart which 92 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,240 parts are so important. But again, this podcast is more 93 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,560 about how do we get the average golfer better? 94 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,439 Speaker 3: So you know, let's go there, let's just go there. 95 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, sure, Well here's the main thrust of it. 96 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:19,959 And it's the same for the tour player as it 97 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,000 is for the average golfer. And I really think it 98 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,000 probably benefits the average golfer more. And what I mean, 99 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,319 I mean this everybody that plays sport, especially in golf, 100 00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:35,920 it's human nature to become result oriented. I just need 101 00:05:35,959 --> 00:05:38,519 a par on the last hole to break ninety or 102 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,199 break eighty, or you say to yourself, gosh, how did 103 00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:44,519 I make that triple bogie on the last hole that 104 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:48,720 leaks into the next hole and you play poorly. So 105 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,319 we have to accept that we are result oriented people, 106 00:05:53,439 --> 00:05:56,759 human beings are. That's one piece. Now, if you read 107 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,800 all the sports psychology books on your shelf, and mind's 108 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,160 bre probably up there too, my old one. And what 109 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,480 you hear the sports psychologists talk about very consistently is 110 00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:12,480 that the golfer or the athlete really has to focus 111 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,120 on the process. Now what do we mean by process? 112 00:06:16,199 --> 00:06:19,519 We mean what are the components of hitting each shot? 113 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:23,839 So I've come up with this term called pre shot pyramid, 114 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,519 which is very simple and it kind of has three parts, 115 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,759 and it goes like this. Every shot you have to calculate. 116 00:06:32,399 --> 00:06:34,680 You know, if it's a putt, the breaks over here, 117 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,759 the speed is such and such. If it's a driver, 118 00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:39,879 you know, I'm going to cut it off the left 119 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,000 tree or an iron, I need to hit it one 120 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:46,439 hundred and fifty five yards. So you make some calculation 121 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,040 and in a very general way, we call that the 122 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,759 left brain. If you don't make that calculation, you're probably 123 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,199 not going to do well. But after that is a 124 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,240 really important part. You make your calculation, and it's important 125 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,720 you just don't go up and hit it. It's important 126 00:07:01,759 --> 00:07:05,439 that you use your right brain and you either visualize 127 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,439 the shot. That's like Aaron Baddeley, he sort of closes 128 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,839 his eyes and sees the shot, or you feel it kinesthetically. 129 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:15,199 And what I mean by that is, let's say you're 130 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:17,600 going to hit a draw or a hook, you sort 131 00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:21,079 of reverse, I mean you rehearse, you know, your hands 132 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,920 turning over. Conversely, if you're going to hit a slice, 133 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,439 you would kind of maybe rehearse holding on and if 134 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,800 you look at the good players, David Duval, Tiger Woods, Phil, 135 00:07:32,079 --> 00:07:35,120 many of them. Phil has a lot of visual stuff, 136 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,519 but many of them really they have the feel of 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,240 the shot. And then after that, ideally you just step 138 00:07:41,279 --> 00:07:43,639 in and hit the shot with instinct. So we go 139 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,319 left brain, think about it, right brain, feel it, step 140 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,240 in and hit it. And those are the three components 141 00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:54,279 of the pre shot pyramid for all shots. Now, why 142 00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:58,839 that's important, Fred is because we ask the golfer to 143 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,480 rape his process, and that means, let's say on the 144 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,199 first hole, I hit a great drive right down the middle, 145 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,399 but I didn't really take the time to decide where 146 00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:11,560 I wanted to hit it. I sort of got lucky, 147 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,839 so I didn't go through the left brain part one. 148 00:08:15,199 --> 00:08:17,079 So even though I hit it two hundred and eighty 149 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,920 yards down the middle, I do not get a point 150 00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:22,839 for that shot because I didn't get through the process. 151 00:08:23,399 --> 00:08:26,800 Now conversely, I might hit my second shot and I 152 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:29,519 might you know, think about it, well, rehearse it and 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,759 hit it, and I even could hit it out of bounds. 154 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:34,720 But if I went through that process, I get a 155 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:38,200 one for one. And so what we get is the 156 00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:43,039 golfer starts to pay attention to rating as process and 157 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,519 that satiates the human nature to sort of rate how 158 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,960 you're doing. But what you've done is you've turned your 159 00:08:50,039 --> 00:08:53,399 attention to the right thing, which is I don't want 160 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,840 to worry about the double bogie behind me or the 161 00:08:55,879 --> 00:08:59,159 birdie I need. What I'm really focused on is just 162 00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:02,600 doing these opponents that lead to a good shot. So 163 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,799 we sort of trick the golfer into being process oriented 164 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,039 while he's rating himself. And that's sort of the trick 165 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,799 of it. And let's say you shoot one hundred that day. 166 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,399 Then you look back and you say, of those hundred shots, well, 167 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:19,840 sixty of them, I really did my pre shot pyramid, 168 00:09:20,279 --> 00:09:23,440 So you'd get a sixty percent that day. And what 169 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,320 we found is the average golfers around fifty to sixty percent, 170 00:09:27,759 --> 00:09:31,200 where the tour players are in the ninety percent tile range. 171 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,200 And if we can help you, you know, stay on 172 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,799 task with a few more shots, you're going to end 173 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:38,200 up scoring a lot better. 174 00:09:38,639 --> 00:09:41,159 Speaker 4: You'll get higher scores on your pyramid and lower scores 175 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,720 on your card. 176 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: Exactly. That's exactly right, friend. So that's kind of the trick, 177 00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:48,840 the big overarching principle, and you. 178 00:09:48,799 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: Have various components to your pre shot pyramid. It's not 179 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,200 just the planning and the concentration. It starts low. I 180 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:05,240 really like the you had attitude, motivation, control, optimization, concentration 181 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:06,240 and then planning. 182 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: Why that order, well. 183 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: I mean we start with you know things like you know, 184 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:17,919 do you have the right attitude? And really that chapter 185 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,399 it's derived from a woman Carol Dweck at Stanford who's 186 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,960 a very famous psychologist, and she has articulated a concept 187 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,360 called mindset. And over thirty five years she studied successful 188 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,840 people in sport, art, politics, and she studied people who 189 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,200 were not. And what she has found and she's published 190 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,240 academic papers in addition to a popular book called Mindset, 191 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:49,080 is that successful people they view an obstacle as a challenge, 192 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:52,360 They take criticism as something that they can learn from 193 00:10:52,799 --> 00:10:56,639 where they and they see other people's success as inspiring. 194 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,679 Where people with a fixed mindset, not a flexible mindset, 195 00:11:02,039 --> 00:11:06,799 they see obstacles as intimidating or other people's success is intimidating. 196 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,679 And so in that chapter in particular, we teach you 197 00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:15,960 that concept the mindset of very successful people and then 198 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,480 those who are not. And then we ask you to 199 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,759 rate yourself and find out where you are on that continuum, 200 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:27,360 and then we actually give questions and drills to help 201 00:11:27,399 --> 00:11:31,759 you move to a more flexible mindset, a more adaptive mindset. 202 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,559 And that's kind of chapter one that sort of sets 203 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,039 the stage, you know. Then we talk about motivation. Why 204 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,159 do you play? And if your motivation decreases, sort of 205 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,080 getting connected with falling in love with the game, and 206 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:50,399 we call that internal motivation. And so we give you 207 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,559 concepts and again we go through what I think are 208 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,720 the really important things, which are, you know, what's your attitude? 209 00:11:56,759 --> 00:11:59,360 How do you stay motivated? Then how do you deal 210 00:11:59,399 --> 00:12:03,360 with emotion positive and negative? If we make a double 211 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,000 legal we want to be you know, a little fist pump, 212 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,080 but be relatively cool because we have a hole after that. 213 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:12,600 Or you have you know, negative thoughts, don't hit it 214 00:12:12,639 --> 00:12:15,480 in the water, and we look at you know, when 215 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,159 those thoughts come up. These are techniques to turn your 216 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,399 attention to what is going to be best for you 217 00:12:22,519 --> 00:12:25,720 rather than let your mind drift there. And then we 218 00:12:25,799 --> 00:12:27,919 talk about, you know, how to put this whole thing 219 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,000 together in a cohesive plan. When we talked about the 220 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,240 mental scorecard a minute ago, that's really the application on 221 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,720 the course where the first part of the book that 222 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,519 we're talking about now, that sort of sets the ground 223 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:46,159 stage for you know, the components that very good athletes 224 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,159 and very good golfers need to have to perform. 225 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 4: Well, I'm fascinated about the motivation part. I'm sure that 226 00:12:59,039 --> 00:13:03,840 you have discovered a wide range of answers on motivation, 227 00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:09,120 going from amateurs to tour players. But I'm curious about 228 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:13,679 amateurs and recreational players. What you hear, what's the vast 229 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,039 difference of motivations they have to play golf. 230 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,039 Speaker 1: Well, it's a great question. And if your motivation is, 231 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,360 you know, to smoke cigars with your buddies and have 232 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,039 a cocktail at the turn. If that's your motivation, just 233 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,320 to fratnize and have fun, well that's one thing. And 234 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:36,200 you probably aren't buying this book because you're less concerned 235 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:40,960 about scoring well. But let's say your motive. 236 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 4: I think those guys are more concerned about scoring well 237 00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:45,159 with the cart girl. But that's a whole different conversation. 238 00:13:45,919 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that one. I don't have the expertise, and I 239 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,279 don't even want to go there. 240 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 3: Go ahead, I'm sorry I did, But maybe. 241 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: When I before I was married, younger, three kids ago. 242 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,919 But anyhow, so yeah, I mean the average guy. You know, 243 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,679 they generally play golf because they love it. It's a 244 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,320 lot of fun. And then what happens is, you know, 245 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,919 they get in the Saturday morning games with their buddies 246 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,480 and they start to you know, compare themselves to their buddy, 247 00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:17,279 and their motivation changes from really enjoying the game making 248 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,519 good shots to you know, how do I stack up 249 00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:23,120 against my friends? And it takes a lot of the 250 00:14:23,159 --> 00:14:27,159 fun out of it. Sometimes if their mindset, if you will, 251 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,759 in competition is unhealthy. So what we try to do 252 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,799 is we try to identify if your motivation stays pure, 253 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:37,879 which is, you know, I play for the joy of 254 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:43,840 it and I love concentrating and competing. That's healthy versus 255 00:14:44,039 --> 00:14:46,919 you know, you start to get scared and intimidated, and 256 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,159 then you start to let's say a negative cognition, which 257 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,159 is a fancy way of saying negative thought, which is, 258 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,720 you know, I'm not bad putter well or I can't putt. 259 00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:59,960 You know, words like can't aren't words sports that colleg 260 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,960 loogists or sports psychiatrists like myself use. So we we 261 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,200 really kind of take a look and we try to 262 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,639 reconnect you with enjoying the game, and then we build 263 00:15:10,799 --> 00:15:14,720 some armor around you to deal in the competitive environment 264 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,440 so you can still have fun and concentrate on what's important, 265 00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:19,639 which is having fun. 266 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:27,879 Speaker 4: The motivation for somebody who and like for myself, my 267 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,720 motivating I want to get better, right, I want to 268 00:15:30,759 --> 00:15:31,480 get better at golf. 269 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:32,559 Speaker 3: I want to improve. 270 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:39,519 Speaker 4: Is that a motivation that could become a problem. 271 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:40,759 Speaker 1: Well, no, that's. 272 00:15:40,559 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 4: Great, I mean because that's results oriented, isn't it. 273 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, well yes, and no, I mean the goal is 274 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:49,200 you want to improve. So then I'd say, well what 275 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,720 does that mean? And you'd say, well, I want to 276 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,759 break eighty And I'd say, okay, that's a result goal. Okay, 277 00:15:55,799 --> 00:15:58,679 what is the what is the process to break eighty? Well, 278 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,440 the process to break eighty is, you know, make a 279 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,759 lot of pars and a few bogies and maybe throwing 280 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:06,759 a birdie. And then I'd say, well, how do you 281 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,879 do that? And it will always distill down to well, 282 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:15,440 I have to hit quality shots, and so that's the process. 283 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Goal is to hit better quality shots. And that's where 284 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,440 we come back to the pre shot pyramid. Now, let's 285 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,919 say your problem is in the short game we'd obviously 286 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,279 spend more focus over there, but we still use that 287 00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:33,120 pre shot pyramid as a process goal. And then over 288 00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:36,360 here we have the result goal of improving the short game, 289 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,320 and the overarching result goal would be to break eighty. 290 00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:44,120 So there's actually in the goal setting chapter. I think 291 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,480 that's underplanning. We use a matrix where we ask you 292 00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:50,639 to define what's your result goal, and then we ask 293 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,399 you to define, well, how are you going to get there? 294 00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:55,840 And that's the process, and so we actually keep tally 295 00:16:55,919 --> 00:17:00,399 of both things so you make sure you have a 296 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:01,720 a good healthy balance. 297 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:08,559 Speaker 4: Passion seems to be a huge motivation for a lot 298 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:09,240 of golfers. 299 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: Well, and that's the beauty of the average golfer because 300 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,799 passion they play. Most average golfers play with this what 301 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,200 we call internal motivation. And I use a analogy of 302 00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:28,160 premium gas versus low octane. So premium gas would be yeah, 303 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,319 I play for the love of it. Low octane gas 304 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,400 would be, gosh, I need to make the cut to 305 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,079 pay the rent this week. So the tour players, they 306 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,559 actually paradoxically have at times more problems with motivation because 307 00:17:43,559 --> 00:17:46,440 they get burned out and then their golf, you know, 308 00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:49,119 they don't just play for fun like we do. They 309 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,839 have to do golf outings and there's a business aspect 310 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,480 and that can sort of burn them out. And we 311 00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:58,480 see that all the time, and then we, you know, 312 00:17:58,599 --> 00:18:02,400 we try to reconnect them with their youth when they 313 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,240 played golf and they had fun, because if you're not 314 00:18:05,319 --> 00:18:07,640 having fun, it's very hard to play well. 315 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 4: There is a great example in the book of a 316 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,400 young phenom who comes up and hits the tour while 317 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,200 he's still in high school. Didn't you share that story 318 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,200 about how his motivation was. 319 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 3: It seemed like it was derailed. 320 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now we're talking about Ty Tryon, who really is 321 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,759 a heck of a good kid. And I think he's 322 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:31,640 almost thirty now, but when he was I think sixteen, 323 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,720 right or seventeen. 324 00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:34,559 Speaker 3: Think he said seventeen in the book. 325 00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, seventeen. He actually earned a fully exempt card on 326 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,279 the PGA Tour, which I think, to this date is 327 00:18:43,319 --> 00:18:46,559 the youngest player my brother. I was cattying in for 328 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,200 my brother, ironically behind him, and we watched him get 329 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,319 his card, and that year my brother also got his card. 330 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,880 But the next year Ty came to visit me, and 331 00:18:58,039 --> 00:19:00,559 you know, he was a junior in high high school 332 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:03,920 or maybe a senior at that time, and you know, 333 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,519 it was very tough because you know, he wanted to 334 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:10,039 have fun like normal high school kids. But the next thing, 335 00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:14,279 you know, he had contracts with Nike, IMG was his agency, 336 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,599 and Red Bull, and he had all these corporate responsibilities. 337 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,480 So now you take a high school kid who really 338 00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:24,720 just wants to have some fun and loves golf, and 339 00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:27,359 you put him on a private jet and he flew 340 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,240 around with Tiger a lot, and that was big business. 341 00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:32,799 And I think that would be you know, very hard 342 00:19:32,839 --> 00:19:36,079 at seventeen years old to go through that process, and 343 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,119 it made golf less fun. I mean, we've heard about 344 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,119 Michelle Wee talking about those kinds of things in the 345 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,279 media and you know, now she's playing great and won 346 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,480 a US Open, but she also talks about how she's reconnected, 347 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,240 you know, to the passion of golf. And she's another 348 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:56,400 example of a very young phenom who when she had 349 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,000 to deal with everything that comes with being a female, 350 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,400 that sort of derailed a lot of her passion. We 351 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,240 saw that with Rory McIlroy. You know, he he wins 352 00:20:07,279 --> 00:20:09,720 his major, you know, he blows the Masters, but then 353 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,400 he comes and wins his major and becomes you know, 354 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,920 this phenom, and then he has a dip in the 355 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,960 level of his game because he has to integrate, you know, 356 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,720 being under the microscope of the media and all this 357 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:23,799 other stuff. And it probably wasn't that fun. I mean, 358 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,319 people think, oh gosh, it to be super fun to 359 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:30,200 be famous. I think, like Andy Warhol in reverse, maybe 360 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,680 for five minutes it's super fun, but it's but after 361 00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:36,160 a while it's pretty tiring not to be able to 362 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,400 be a normal person. And that's a tough challenge for 363 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,759 many of the high profile athletes. So you know, how 364 00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:47,200 do we reconnect them with the reason they fell in 365 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,039 love with golf? That's really the goal, and keep that 366 00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:51,079 connection strong. 367 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 4: I thought Rory fell apart because he went to different clubs. 368 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,759 Speaker 3: The Nikes never mind, so he. 369 00:20:57,759 --> 00:21:01,519 Speaker 1: Got well there's more than that conjecture, but certainly that 370 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,039 was part of it. Yeah, you know, breaking up with 371 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,319 a girlfriend and being under the spotlight of the media, 372 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,319 and I think there were a lot of things that 373 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,359 were a lot of new challenges and and if Rory 374 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,079 didn't play well, I'm sure Nike wouldn't have come to him, 375 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:18,640 you know, with a very lucrative contract. So that's all 376 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:19,519 part and parcel. 377 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 4: And I frequently am asking questions about these young phenoms 378 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,960 that are coming up and if they can you know, 379 00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:29,039 because golf is so mental, and even on the tour 380 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,359 it's got to be so mental, especially the stress of 381 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,319 a Sunday, that how can these kids handle this kind 382 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,240 of pressure and still you know it's not just hitting 383 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,799 the ball farther than everybody. 384 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,079 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know they you know, it's a 385 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,720 little like training Navy seals, you know, the really good 386 00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:51,799 ones really learned to you know, how to how to 387 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,039 deal with that pressure and get a playbook if you will, 388 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,359 and I like, I like in my book to that 389 00:21:58,599 --> 00:22:01,920 you know, it really has answers and suggestions. You know, 390 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,160 we go out and play golf and you know number 391 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,400 sixteen at my course has a lot of water on 392 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,359 the left, and you know ninety percent of the people 393 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,400 up there are aiming to the right and having really struggling. 394 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Very few of them. You know, know what an anchor 395 00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:19,720 thought is in ways to deal with our human nature 396 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:22,759 when our mind drips. So recently I had a web 397 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:27,480 dot com player, Camillo Betedetto, really a fine player, come 398 00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:32,400 visit with me, and you know, he, like many players, 399 00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:36,519 you know, had had good concentration, but really didn't have 400 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:40,599 kind of a playbook. So in certain situations, you know, 401 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,440 on the seventeenth or eighteenth hole, you know, to make 402 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,400 a cut or win an event, you know, what do 403 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,319 I do when when these thoughts come up? So I 404 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,559 think at almost every level, you know, we know a 405 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:56,000 lot about the golf swing. Most players know how to 406 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:58,920 do that, but most most players don't know how to 407 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,319 think in certain sitution situations. And that's one of the 408 00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:04,240 main goals of the book to really teach some of 409 00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:04,960 those parents. 410 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 3: There are so many distractions on the tour. 411 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,799 Speaker 4: They go along with that level of competition, you know, 412 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,680 from the corporate outings, but then you've got just the 413 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,400 travel alone and the food, and the people who want 414 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,160 your time, and the women who want to go to 415 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,640 your room, and there's just so many different things that 416 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,200 can be distractions. How is it possible that these guys 417 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,839 are able to eliminate those thoughts once they step up 418 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,480 to the tea box, And how can we get a 419 00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:48,200 shred of that to distract what's going on in our lives, 420 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,599 which you know, we it's great if we can get 421 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,640 time to go out to the golf course because there 422 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,039 are so many distractions and we don't get time to practice. 423 00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 3: We just want to go out and play because there's 424 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,839 so so many things in our way. How are we 425 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,519 able to do that? How can we get rid of 426 00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:03,839 all that? 427 00:24:04,519 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: Well, they're kind of two questions in there. But to 428 00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:12,160 talk about us a regular golfer, you know, I suggest 429 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,880 for people to say, hey, you know, you have a 430 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,720 very busy work life. I know for me, I'm a physician, 431 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,240 and when I go to golf, I look at it 432 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:25,640 as my sanctuary. And that's what I encourage people. Let's 433 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,519 turn off the darn cell phone, you know, let's look 434 00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:31,200 at the beauty of the golf course and for a 435 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,920 few hours, you know, let's really honor this experience. I 436 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,839 think for for a lot of average golfers, that's very, 437 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,519 very refreshing. Now they don't have all the distractions of 438 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:46,200 the tour player. Now taking a look at the tour player. 439 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,640 I mean, I can remember one of the guys I've 440 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,680 worked with. I won't mention his name, but it was 441 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,880 in the final group on Sunday at Riviera at Los 442 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,359 Angeles Open, and on Saturday night I met him and 443 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,599 he's on his third cocktail, and you know, we have 444 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,519 to go through the metabolism of alcohol, and that's not 445 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,759 really a very good thing because you're going to have 446 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:09,279 some alcohol, you know when you tee off tomorrow and 447 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:15,359 your blood. So needless to say that particular golfer, he 448 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,359 really struggled and you know, autographs and let me get 449 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,279 you another drink. Now we take other golfers, you know 450 00:25:22,319 --> 00:25:25,039 that have been very successful. You know, you don't see 451 00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:28,400 Steve Stricker doing that too much. You don't see Jim Furick. 452 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,519 You certainly didn't see Tiger, so I think you know 453 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,319 many of them have. 454 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:37,039 Speaker 4: Oh boy, yeah, come on, Tiger was seen. He was 455 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:39,880 seeing it a lot of bars and places. 456 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 3: But he made I've been drinking but. 457 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,759 Speaker 1: He was, yeah, well we'll go there too much. But 458 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,160 on Saturday night, I would say he's very very disciplined. 459 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,240 I mean, I can tell you a great Tiger story 460 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,079 about Matt Gogel. They were playing in Florida and Matt 461 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,519 went off the back nine and Tiger the front, and 462 00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:00,359 long story short, it was an arduous day and at 463 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,559 the end of the day and Matt had to do 464 00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:06,240 a lot of local media Tiger did all the international media, 465 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:08,400 and the end of the day, Matt meets his wife 466 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,680 at the bar having a beer, and he's so exhausted 467 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,920 and his wife is all bright eyed and he says, whoa, 468 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:17,960 you look in great spirits? Where were you? And she said, well, 469 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,960 I just came back from the gym. And he goes, oh, okay, 470 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,039 what was that like? And he goes, well, next to 471 00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:27,240 me for forty five minutes, Tiger was running sprints and 472 00:26:27,319 --> 00:26:30,119 Matt just shook his head because Tiger had just had 473 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,480 the same eight hours prior as Matt did, which was, 474 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,400 you know, playing in bad weather on and off, super tired. 475 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:39,519 And the difference is Matt, like most guys you know, 476 00:26:39,759 --> 00:26:42,480 wanted to go relax a little bit, and you know, 477 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:45,039 Tiger goes to the gym. So I don't think in 478 00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:48,920 any way Tiger's work ethic is every question, and I 479 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:53,480 don't really know him to compromise, you know, himself right 480 00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:57,160 before something very important now outside of the golf world, 481 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,359 and what he does in other domains is really beyond 482 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:01,839 the scope of this conversation. 483 00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:05,839 Speaker 3: Fred, Okay, I'll buy into that. I'm fascinated. 484 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,839 Speaker 4: You mentioned a lot of players and Tiger is just 485 00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:12,160 a one, you know, he's one name that makes sense. 486 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,480 But of the other players you mentioned Phil, tell me 487 00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:18,799 about your relationship with Phil, and we're talking about Michelson 488 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:19,279 of course. 489 00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well it's funny because you know, about eight years 490 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,640 ago I was helping Tim Micholson as a coach for 491 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,960 the USD golf team. Here. Now Tim's in Arizona. 492 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:31,559 Speaker 3: That's Phil's brother. 493 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, Tim Micholson. Sure, And and I used to play 494 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,359 a lot of table tennis when I was young. I 495 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,200 played competitively and Japan and Europe, and long story short, 496 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,200 Phil likes cable tennis and a lot of the tour 497 00:27:46,279 --> 00:27:49,319 players love table tennis. They actually fly in a ping 498 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,720 pong table to the President's Cup. And Tim had said 499 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,599 to me, hey, Doc, you know my brother. Christmas is 500 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,519 coming up, and you know, I want to get my 501 00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:02,799 brother something good. But he has everything and everything he 502 00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:07,359 doesn't have that he wants, he just buys. But he 503 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,480 loves table tennis and he thinks his serve is really 504 00:28:10,519 --> 00:28:12,400 good and he can beat me. But I know he's 505 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,279 not that good. So would you come and play with him, 506 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:18,200 you know, give him a lesson and that would be 507 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,880 his Christmas present. So I said sure, and then, needless 508 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,839 to say, a month or so later, I was actually 509 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,000 helping Na cating with the Chargers and I was going 510 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:32,039 down to the stadium. I got a call to meet 511 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,319 Phil and it was very funny. I was in blue 512 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,119 jeans and I started to think, well, maybe he's a 513 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,519 really good player. I mean, he's number five in the 514 00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:43,720 world of golf. And then I pulled up to the 515 00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:46,559 gate at the bridges and before I said anything, the 516 00:28:46,599 --> 00:28:50,279 gate man said are you here for? Are you doctor Lardon? 517 00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:54,599 Are you here for the match? And I go, guy's 518 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,799 getting scared. And they brought me into a private gym and 519 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,480 it's like a little basketball court. The stands and somebody 520 00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:04,119 greeted me. And then the next thing I know, Phil 521 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,640 came with a little entourage of folks, many of which 522 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,279 were worked for Callaway or Tailor Made. Their factories are 523 00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:15,160 near here. And the next thing you know, he and 524 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,160 I are playing table tennis and he gives the serve, 525 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,200 and needless to say, the serve, if you're a professional 526 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,279 table tennis player, is an easy serve to you know, 527 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,480 loop kill and I did that and Phil said wow, 528 00:29:28,519 --> 00:29:30,720 And then I serve some and when we serve we 529 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:32,920 throw the ball up high. It's called the high toss, 530 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:35,920 and the ball comes out, you know, pretty fast, fifty 531 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,240 miles an hour with a big curve and kind of 532 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:40,599 curved around Phil's racket. And he said, wow, if you 533 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,920 can teach me that, I'll teach you the short game. 534 00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:46,559 And I laughed. I said, it's too late for me. 535 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,079 Maybe you could help my brother. And then I started 536 00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,799 playing them in a chair and giving them nine points 537 00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:57,519 to eleven playing in a chair, teaching him footwork in fact, 538 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,440 and we had that interaction and that was quite fun. 539 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,640 And then right before the Houston Open in twenty eleven, 540 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,440 he engaged me to help him with golf and we 541 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,720 had a really good session and that's where the Mental 542 00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:15,279 scorecard was named that day at the Bridges, and then 543 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:18,960 he won that week in the Houston Open. So that's 544 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,119 where it started. And it's been very fun to work 545 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,400 with Phil. He's very bright and curious and soaks up 546 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,720 information and his talent is, you know, legendary. So we've 547 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:31,920 had a nice relationship. 548 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,599 Speaker 3: And in the book you talk about. 549 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 4: Mindset of growth versus fixed and Phil fit into that 550 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:43,319 very well versus a lot of other players. Can we 551 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,519 cover that for just a moment because I thought that 552 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,599 was really fascinating. I found myself on the growth side. 553 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,039 Speaker 1: Right. Well, that's good, Fred, that's good. That's where we 554 00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:56,000 want to be. And I think an important thing is 555 00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:58,880 if you have a fixed mindset, you can actually learn 556 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,839 to transform it into a growth mindset. And whether we're 557 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,039 talking about sport of golf as we are now or 558 00:31:06,119 --> 00:31:11,000 really in life, the concepts are very important. So example, 559 00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:14,519 if you kind of want to use Phil, Phil loves 560 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:18,119 when Tiger plays so rather than being threatened. And if 561 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,240 we think back to Tiger's heyday, there used to be 562 00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:24,200 the Tiger effect. There was a great article in Sports 563 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,559 Illustrated and that showed and this was some years back 564 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,400 before two thousand and eight that when he played, the 565 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,079 rest of the field actually shot like almost a shot worse. 566 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,079 And what does that tell us? That tells us cumulatively 567 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,240 the rest of the field, you know, was intimidated by 568 00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:46,440 Tiger and didn't play as well. In contrast, Phil and 569 00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:51,559 many other great players, they are inspired when Tiger's out there. 570 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:54,640 And actually Phil has a very favorable head to head 571 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,480 record against Tiger. It gets them pumped up. You know, 572 00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:01,880 he wants that a little like Federer and Nadell and 573 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,720 Jovachak and tennis. They have a wonderful growth mindset, those guys. 574 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:10,519 So it's a really important concept. 575 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 4: You're kind of downplaying your level of achievement in table tennis. 576 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,119 Let's give us a background on that and how you 577 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,119 found yourself in the zone. And now that we're able 578 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,160 to give it to all of us. 579 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,839 Speaker 1: To make a long story short, when I was young, 580 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,640 I got involved. The Chinese table tennis team came to 581 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,839 Madison Square Garden in nineteen seventy two. Nixon and table 582 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,160 tennis diplomacy and those that are our age or my 583 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:50,720 age at least might remember that. But fast forward, I 584 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:53,359 got involved. It was the second it is the second 585 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,119 largest sport in the world. Participation at the Olympics in China. 586 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,640 It was actually watched more than the finals of the soccer, 587 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,240 if you can believe. But neither here nor there. I 588 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:09,240 ended up being trained in Japan by the world champion 589 00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:10,920 over there, and I came home and I was in 590 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,519 the finals of the United States Junior Championships and it 591 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,680 was a three out of five And when we started, 592 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,799 I was in the zone where the ball that moves 593 00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:24,680 at ninety miles an hour started to come in slow motion. 594 00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:28,279 I could see it as big as an egg. And 595 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,799 I won the first couple of games handily. And then 596 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,559 at the break where you go to the other side 597 00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,960 of the table, one of the coaches had said, and 598 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,279 the winner was going to get their name on all 599 00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:46,119 these table tennis rackets distributed in Hermann's Sporting Goods stores. 600 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:48,079 I don't know if they have them anymore, but kind 601 00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:50,039 of like golf smith a big change. That was a 602 00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:53,720 big deal, and the coach said something like, oh, this 603 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:56,119 will be an amazing upset. I think I was seated 604 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,640 twelve and I was playing the perennial best player, multiple 605 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,799 national champion, uh. And the next thing, you know, I thought, wow, 606 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,279 I'm going to have my name on all these rackets. 607 00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:11,679 I'll be the national champion. As soon as that happened, 608 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,559 I lost the next three and the rest is history. 609 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:19,599 It spawned my career as a sport you know, sport 610 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:20,880 psychology doctor. 611 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 4: But you said that table tennis was the second world's 612 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,679 most popular participation sport. I've got three or four in 613 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:31,840 my head that could be first. 614 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,519 Speaker 3: What's first? 615 00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: Uh, soccer? 616 00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:38,039 Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, and actually there's some data now that table 617 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:42,159 tennis may even rival it. But really, Yeah, Matt Matt Rudy, 618 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,199 the Golf Digest writer who helped me with my book, 619 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,000 he researched to find table tennis number one, But I'm 620 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,079 I'm not one hundred percent sure, so I say number two. 621 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,719 But when I was young, I played in the German 622 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:55,559 the German Professional League. 623 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,679 Speaker 1: I lived in Sweden. The Swedes are great players. They 624 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,800 beat the Chinese and have won the Worlds a couple 625 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,960 of times. So outside of America, it's a lot more 626 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,159 than you think. In fact, Freddie Jacobson, who is the 627 00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:11,679 Swedish golfer, when he comes to Tory Pines, he and 628 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,440 I always have these great matches and we have a 629 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:14,920 lot of fun. 630 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 3: Well that's awesome. Oh that's so cool. 631 00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:23,079 Speaker 4: So let's talk about the scorecard and a little more 632 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,000 to wrap this up and making it a motivation to 633 00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,920 purchase the book, which we will have available in our 634 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,400 Golfers mart In our book section, along with your first 635 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:36,039 book as well. 636 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 3: We'll have them both. But I'm curious when you say 637 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:42,880 a number of shots that. 638 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 4: Qualify in the middle scorecard system, what do you mean 639 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,119 by that qualify? 640 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: Well, if if in that shot you you took the 641 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,719 second or two or five seconds to figure out I'm 642 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,559 really going to hit a seven iron, and you're not ambivalent. 643 00:35:57,639 --> 00:36:00,000 You make your best choice. You have met the first 644 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,239 criteria of the shot. The next criteria is, you know, 645 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,559 to make sure you sort of feel the shot. You know, 646 00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:09,360 how's it going to feel if you put right? You Now, 647 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,920 when we put we kind of walk halfway and this 648 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,239 is the feel of it. That's the feeling part. And 649 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,599 then you get in and hit it. And it's that simple. 650 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,440 And if you do those three things regardless of the result, 651 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,840 because we're only concerned with everything that happens before the 652 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,239 ball leaves the club face, because after it leaves the 653 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,760 club face, there's not a lot we can do. But 654 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,480 if you do those three things, that SHOT's a one 655 00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:35,679 for one. Now, if you don't do all of those 656 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,360 three things, you do not get the point, and it's 657 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,559 a zero for one. And again that's independent of the result. 658 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,880 So you got one hundred shots, you know, only fifty 659 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,840 of them did you do it? The other fifty you 660 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:54,320 were smoking cigars, chatting. If you apply this very simple concept, 661 00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:58,480 it's hard not to, you know, increase your percentage to 662 00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:02,239 sixty or even more maybe, and that really will have 663 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,599 a huge impact in the average golfer, you know, the 664 00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:08,559 tour players, the margins are so thin, but for the 665 00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:12,199 average guy. We just have an email that came in 666 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,360 and we're going to get it posted on Amazon. And 667 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,519 the guy thanked me. He said, I'm a twelve handicapper. 668 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,440 And I went out and I shot seventy three, my 669 00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,320 lowest round ever. And I didn't even know I shot 670 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,480 seventy three as I was focusing on, you know, your 671 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,039 pre shot pyramid. But my mental scorecard was what eighty 672 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:33,840 percent or something, he said. So that's a great case 673 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,559 in point. And we do give real examples. There's one 674 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:40,400 in the book of a web dot com player, Scott Fawcett, 675 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,000 who went from a club player to making theweb dot 676 00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:46,719 com and almost a full tour card, you know, and 677 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,880 he was one of these guys that is into statistics, 678 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,840 and when we started, he went from sixty percent to 679 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,639 ninety percent, and sure enough, his level of play, you know, 680 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,880 was dramatically better. So to give you just a little 681 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,320 that's the application piece, and that's part two. And I 682 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,840 think that in and of itself would have a tremendous 683 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,800 impact on the average golfer. 684 00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 4: I recently played with a friend of a friend. I 685 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,800 went out with a friend of mine. He brought a 686 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,760 friend with him, and his friend is a three or 687 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:17,119 a four. 688 00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 3: I'm excellent golfer. 689 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,679 Speaker 4: And afterwards he said to me, well, you know, you're 690 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:25,199 a pretty good player. You know, you didn't have your intention, 691 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,239 wasn't there for every shot? And that kind of like 692 00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,280 a bit a bit bit what wow? And that really 693 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,639 had an impact on the way I approach each shot. 694 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 3: Now, I was kind of taken aback by that, but 695 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:41,079 I loved it. 696 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,679 Speaker 1: Well, it's probably a great observation. And I think of 697 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,559 like the tour players, they're great at hitting really hard 698 00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:52,079 shots because they'd really concentrate. And I mean, I think 699 00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,800 of my work with Rich Beam over a decade or so. 700 00:38:55,199 --> 00:38:57,559 Give him a really hard shot and you know, he 701 00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:00,440 was impressive. The ones that I worried more about for 702 00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:03,719 him was, you know, a nine iron with a you know, 703 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,039 just an easy pin at one hundred and thirty yards 704 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,760 because sometimes the easy shot it's easy to space out. 705 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,760 And at tour level, all you need is one bad 706 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,280 shot and you can miss a cut. So I think 707 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,960 that happens a lot you know, with average guys, it's 708 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,679 more than one shot, it's more than a nine iron, 709 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,920 and even good players, even three or four handicappers. So 710 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,159 it teaches us just like we want to make a 711 00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:32,079 good swing, we want to have a good mental framework 712 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,599 for each shot when we play. Now what we do 713 00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:37,199 between the shots we talk about it in the book. 714 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,079 You relax your attention. You know, you can't grind and 715 00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:45,760 concentrate for five hours straight. That's suboptimal. So you pulse 716 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,599 your concentration. And Jack Nicholas would talk about concentration with 717 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:54,280 the metaphor of an accordion. So the accordion squeezes in 718 00:39:54,679 --> 00:39:56,639 as you do your pre shot and hit the ball, 719 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,320 and then once you've the balls left your club face, 720 00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:02,519 you relax and you know, feel the grass, look at 721 00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,880 the trees, and as that next ball comes towards you, 722 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,000 we start to get our attentional focus. We do our 723 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,559 calculations our left brain, our right brain until we hit 724 00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:15,920 the ball shot again, and then we relax again. So 725 00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:19,480 concentration is something that you know, you have to know 726 00:40:19,519 --> 00:40:22,079 how to work with and if you don't, and minds 727 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,639 of muscle, so you have to practice it to get better, 728 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,400 and you have to have good habits, and I think 729 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,159 the book really helps, you know, teach people these good 730 00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:31,079 mental habits. 731 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 4: And on the top of the pre shot pyramid two 732 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,840 words here and one inside of the other, the now 733 00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:39,039 the no mind. 734 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: Well that is a love. Yeah, that's a triple on tondra. Okay, 735 00:40:44,039 --> 00:40:48,280 so no is spelled ken a k n ow, which 736 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,960 is really to no knowledge. So if you have the knowledge, 737 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,960 you use no mind and no mind. You just look 738 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,280 at the n O in there, which is we don't 739 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,320 want to be thinking when we're hitting the ball. We 740 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,320 want to hit with no mind. We want to hit 741 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,280 with instinct if we can. Now we say that if 742 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,679 you can't get that bad thought out of your head, 743 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,840 you can use an anchor thought. An example, Billy Casper 744 00:41:14,039 --> 00:41:16,880 used to talk about just finish high. Now that's a 745 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,000 non technical thought when you're a golfer. Finish high doesn't 746 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,079 really take you know, any of the mental energy reserve. 747 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,440 But what it does is it keeps you from thinking 748 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,079 about the water. Now we're in the zone, we just 749 00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:30,840 hit it. We don't even think at all. But sometimes 750 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,199 we're in a tough situation and we need an anchor thought. 751 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,239 So but the ideal state is not to be thinking. 752 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,599 That's no mind. And then buried in the know is 753 00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:43,400 the word now. And you want to be in the present. 754 00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,599 You want to be the power of now. So you 755 00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:48,760 want to have knowledge. You don't want to be thinking 756 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,239 when you're hitting it. And that's the There's an old 757 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,920 saying those who know do not think, and those who 758 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,239 think do not know. So that's how we stay immersed 759 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,039 in the present. And that is the top of the pyramid. 760 00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:04,480 You know, just hit it, don't get too cerebral. 761 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 3: Awesome again. 762 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,119 Speaker 4: The book is called Mastering Golf's Mental Game, Your Ultimate 763 00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:13,559 Guide to better on course performance and lower scores by 764 00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:18,480 the table tennis Wizard. He's a ping pung wizard, must be. 765 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,519 We're gonna rewrite the words to that song for you, right, 766 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:23,320 doctor Michael T. 767 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 1: Larden. 768 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,559 Speaker 4: Mike, thanks so much for coming back on the show. 769 00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:29,599 I really appreciate it. And best of luck. I'm sure 770 00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:31,079 you're gonna be selling a couple of copies of the 771 00:42:31,079 --> 00:42:32,079 Golf Smarter Community. 772 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,599 Speaker 1: Great and Fred, thanks very much. I love your podcast 773 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,280 and as always, it's great chatting with you.