Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin willis your host.
Anyone that follows the show will know that last Thursday
we had our UFO headlines and then the day after
was a file dump from Aro and so we did
a little video on that. You can catch that on
our YouTube channel. But I am really excited to have
our guest tonight, Robert Powell Scientists. He heads the SCU.
We're gonna be talking about that and also the event
this year in Toronto that they're having. But Robert really
has taken some real intense time and has looked over
UFO videos in the past, Aguadilla and so many others.
He is a great reputation. Really glad to have him
on and the timing is perfect. So just a couple
of things. Our blog this week is UFOs and Life Magazine.
Now I remember seeing Life magazine. I think there's one
with Marilyn Monroe on the front that has UFOs in
the somewhere. There was a lot of times that they
did talk Life Magazine pictures and so check that out
over at PODCASTUFO dot com. Thank you all to that
support the show. Anyone can, especially if you're looking for
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as it goes out to all these different platforms. Spotify
is just one of those platforms. Again, I know a
lot of people are jumping over on Patreon and I
do appreciate all the support of all of you. Thank
you for that. And so it'll play on any media
player for a podcast. So next week, Joe at UFO, sorry,
Joe at UAP Report will be on this show on Tuesday.
Pardon me, I'm sorry. I've been fighting a cold.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Last week during the show, I got a message. On
one of the two nights I can't remember our three
nights that I actually had show three different shows I
had last week, someone made a comment about filming off
the coast of Italy on a cruise ship UFO encounter.
Since then, I've been in touch and that's some really
very interesting footage. I invited him on the show. That's
going to be happening. I want to get these films
and everything analyzed by someone like markt Antonio. I have
from miss to do that. I have all the information
and it's really wild pictures. There's a lot of things
we're seeing. Of course, there's also a rumor that there's
going to be another UFO file dump in the next
couple of days. We'll see if that happens. I don't
know for sure. These are rumors, of course, and I
think that is about it that I did already mention
the blog. I know I did that. So I think
we're ready to bring in our guests and here we go.
Speaker 2: Welcome back, Robert, I'm Martin. It's great to be back again.
I think this is maybe my fourth or fifth time
with you.
Speaker 1: That's right. We met years ago in Phoenix, one of
the international UFO congresses out there, and we've been in
touch ever since. It's been a real pleasure. I think
it's actually more than that. And I believe I had
you on at a specific time. I'm trying to think
what happened right after. Oh, it's a Nimitz case. Yeah,
and that was a very highly that show. I I
can't remember the downloads, but that was that was really
quite a show. In the timing, here you are again
and we have timing of this file dump of all
these UFO videos. I know the SCU wrote a paper
on this today, are they What was the overall gist
of that report?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually we put out a press release, a
second press release. Our first one was just saying we're
looking forward to the government doing this UAP down. This
one is based on the work we've done so far
analyzing the database. And so there are several members of
SCU that have been active in this, one of them
being Miguel Pavaan who's in Spain. But the key things
that we did in the press release is a big overview.
So the very first big the big overview is there's
really nothing in this release that can be scientifically evaluated.
And the main reason for that is in the videos
everything is redacted, so you can't determine the speedy object
distant size.
Speaker 1: And why do you suppose they did that. It's one
of the things when the UFO Jack and I we
did a little overview of the films, but it's so frustrating.
They don't have you can't tell how far away the
objects are, the size, you can't tell sometimes even where
they're at the speed. There's nothing about speed on there.
I want to just say real quickly hello to everyone
over on chat, thank you all for being here. We
have a question already. I'll be bringing that up in
a minute, but anyway, Yeah, it's very first, that part
is very frustrating. Now let me ask you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are four videos that they release that have
metadata on the screen, and guess what those four are.
It was Go Fast Gimble, the Flur video from two
thousand and four, and then the Agudea video, And so
clearly they can do it when they want to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, speaking of what they're redacting or not, I
have not gone through the documents at this point. Has
anyone gone through them from SEU or yourself Documents and images.
Speaker 2: Yes, we've been going through them using AI because there's
quite a few. I've gone through almost all the videos
looking at them and there's really nothing there that you
can do anything with. So that's the frustrating part. The
second part besides that, is just the overclassification. Some of
your listeners are probably familiar with the Project blue Book files,
they were much less classified. Like in the Project blue Book,
there are actual radar cases, right. You can see the
report they did, the people they went and interviewed, you
can see the correspondence internal on the subject matter. But
none of that is in this release. There's that problem
buber classification. And there's no assessments. Right. In other words,
if the government has an object like this and they're
trying to determine what it is, there should have been
someone who wrote a report on it, right, and here's
what we determine, Here's what we know, here's who we interview.
None of that is available. So that's that's probably some
of the key things. And one more, which is if
you look at the time of when these events take place,
they've got a lot in the late forties and early
fifties and a lot from twenty fifteen on. But from
nineteen seventy five to twenty fifteen that is just a
there's very little. So it's like it's not like the
uap UFOs stopped appearing during that timeframe. Where's the data?
Speaker 1: I watched Bryce Stable had a little clip you put
out there and basically come on, show us the saucers
instead of show us the money, show me the money.
But this can't be the best stuff, that's for sure.
But we know we all know that. But the outsider
who's just plane never really looked into this, that may
just dip his toe in the water, her toe in
the water, will say, wow, this is really something when
you and I both know they have the good stuff,
and whether we'll see that or not, I don't know.
It really depends on who's putting the brakes and why
they're putting the brakes on some of the really good stuff.
But we can just be patient and see what happens.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's all we can be. We'll look at
the NIXT release they haven't seen. Maybe there's something more
on that release.
Speaker 1: Now you just mentioned AI, do you how well? I've
always wondered what type of role that would play in
the future of analysis when it comes to UAP and
all that. But what is exactly are you doing when
you're using AI to sort these things out? What were
you doing?
Speaker 2: So? For example, in some of the FBI had one file,
which is it was a single file, but within that
file there were many cases, right, So you can use
AI to basically break those chunks up so that you
know how many cases are in that one giant file.
All right, so that's say one of the uses the
other use. And we haven't done that on this, but
you can use AI for natural language processing, which is
an evaluation of a report to see the likelihood that
it's a valid report or not a valid report based
on the type of words and terminology that the witness uses.
Speaker 1: Well, well, here's a question, and a good one, Philip,
thank you. Do you think that this is planned disclosure?
As Nick Pope said on his death bit according to
his wife, that they're slowly I don't know when it
comes to disclosure what we're actually going to really see
all the way through. Yeah, there's a lot of reason
why they hold back.
Speaker 2: That's the big question. Well, exactly what do they mean
by disclosure? Also? Right, it's one thing to come out
and say, okay, we as a government know that there
are objects that are intelligently controlled that are flying through
our atmosphere and they do not appear, for example, to
be of a dangerous nature, which is different than just
taking almost like a box of photographs out of your
closet and dumping them and saying, here you go have fun, right,
So I don't. My personal view at this point in
time is that this is not a type of disclosure
to me. This is more of the executive said I
want all your UFO files to his various agencies, and
so they have rushed to find what can we give
and to be safe, they've reacted everything and they dumped
a pile and hopefully the next the next release will
be something better.
Speaker 1: Something I mentioned to you that I just thought i'd
tell people out there because I think it's fun. As
for those of you who follow or have followed in
the past, the Angry Astronaut on YouTube a lot of
followers there. He was I would have people that watched
my show listen to my show, would send me clips
and he was basically a debunker of UFOs and went
angry at the whole thing. A nice time for him.
I was said something the other day and he's there
really is something to this, and he's he totally is
now totally turned the corner like Jay Allen Heinig did
from Project Bluebook. So anyway, he's coming up on the show.
I just wanted to throw that out there. I did
talk him into coming onto the show, so that will
be soon. We have some really great guests coming up.
You'll you'll see them as we go along. I've been
been confirming with some really good ones. One of them
is a government a person, former government official. So I'm
excited about that. Just need to get it set up
and we've got a lot of shows coming forward. I
might start doing two shows again a week on a
regular basis, going out to contact in the desert, and
we'll be picking up some really good interviews, doing some
in person interviews, just to let people know. With Beatrice,
she's been on the show before, but we're going to
do in person there, maybe Caroline Corey and Willie Streeber,
people like that in person. That should be fun to
look for. Some really good in person interviews coming up
the first part of June. I'm sorry to go on
and on about that, but i just wanted to get
that out there because there are people that here's someone
that says he's been watching Angry for a long time,
just angry like that. That's a good thing, but it's yeah.
We have one other question I saw here and about
the Steven Spielberg. I'm sure you saw the trailer for that.
I'm really excited for that. I know it's fiction, but
coming out on June twelfth, it should be really fine.
And according to Ross coltheart here, if this is what
Philip is saying, that it's part of this planned disclosure,
I'm not really sure what I think about that right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me either, although I really like Steven Spielberg movies. Yes,
et is probably in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Those are two of my favorite movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it should be really good. I'm excited and
I just can't wait for it to come out there.
Someone was trying to spread the rumor the other day.
I don't know where they put it that he's going
to be a contact in the desert and that's not
going to happen. I don't think so. But anyway, I
think it's exciting that these things are. At least we're
getting some things. I know a Luna. I know Paulina Luna.
I think that's how you say her name. She was
behind forty six videos. I don't know exactly what those
videos were, and if this is any part of that
or not, I don't really know if that's ever been clarified.
Do you have to happen to know about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my understanding is none of these are part of
her group of forty one or forty six, whatever that
number was. I see it, and I believe she's hopeful
that those will come out in one of the future releases.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exciting times, and it's definitely since I've been doing
the show, I would say this is one of the
more interesting times, for sure. And so with all these
other videos here, this has gone viral today. I'm gonna
pull it up here and i'd showed you. You weren't
aware of it, but it's It was released by the Ministry,
the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense today. Now I saw it secondhand.
I didn't see it officially from them or not, but
it shows. This one here does show the metadata. It's
very weird. This is for the people watching on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter,
all that, but if you're listening to the audio, I
will put the link in the show notes. So here
we go. Here it is. That's really a bizarre It
looks like it's saying, Robert, what do you think. It
looks like it's saying completely stationary.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's stationary, and so I guess, are
these clouds in the background. So it looks like and
this is a drone that is, yes, from a drone object.
Speaker 1: The drone is filming the object. Yes.
Speaker 2: You know what would be interesting is if they filmed
it long enough for the object to finally depart. What
you would wonder is, Okay, if you're the guy that's
watching this, you're filming it, why would you ever leave?
I would be staying there until something happened, right, either
the leaves or or something else happens to force me away.
Speaker 1: Especially if it's a drone sitting there. I know someone
is in a room thousand and two thousand miles away
or five thousand miles away whatever, handling it. But I
don't think that there would be any reason for them
unless they had to move the drone to change that.
So I wonder how much footage there is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be great to see that if they've
got more footage, to see the full footage on that.
Speaker 1: And then someone posted also they thought that particular thing
could be this. Now this does have some sound to it,
which is a Lockheed Martin, purportedly Lockheed Martin. I don't
have any confirmation any of this stuff, so, but yeah,
I'm gonna do that video right now. This is a
weird object to whatever it is. Definitely some similarities, but
this one the other one here, are you not really
seeing anything jetting out of the bottom like that? Yeah,
it's however, there is some type of maybe a heats
signature or something under it. You see that coming down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a haze. Yeah, like a hazel all
around it. It looks like in this video that white
is probably hot.
Speaker 1: So when you and your team of people went through
all the videos and things like that, you said there
was only just a couple that had metadata on them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The ones that had metadata were the ones that
have been released in the past, the game Okay go fast, yeah, lurre,
the all of the recent releases there was everything's blacked out,
it's all redacted.
Speaker 1: And do you think they just instead of thinking totally
nefarious in this situation, do you think that's they were?
Whoever was that told them they could release these videos
said okay, you can, but to protect national security or
whatever the reason you have to redact out all the information.
Do you think that's how that went.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because probably what has to happen before each video
Potentially there might be some reason you want to react it,
and so you would need to individually evaluate each one
and say, Okay, in this case, I can I don't
need to react. So whenever you're in the situation, I
don't have time to look at all these videos, So
redact it all. And that's I think that's basically what
they did, because if they make a mistake, they're in trouble.
If they've redacted at all and just denied the information,
that that risk is much lower risk for them. Right,
You're not motivated to provide information if there's no upside,
and there's only downside should something go wrong. But my
point is if you properly evaluate the video, you can
make it a determination if there is any risk of
showing the metadata that's on there.
Speaker 1: Here's a here's an example. Just put one up here, Yeah,
and we can. We could talk over this. This isn't
anything special or anything. Oh yeah, this is the one
that looked like three conjoined objects. And like you said,
the whitest probably the heat, So that's probably probably around
the edges of this thing. This is a weird one,
I gotta tell you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it looks interesting, but you can't we
don't know. For example, if we know the particular equipment
that's being used to video it, right, We can know
the we can determine the object's angular size especially, and
then we can make estimates on its distance and if
it's an X distance and the size is why right,
So you kind of have a table. So you can
learn quite a bit if you have that metadata available
to you. Yeah, and well sometimes if they happen to
have a rangefinder that was good enough quality to measure
the distance to the object, right, or they had radar,
which would be even better, that determine distance to the
object and potentially speed of the that can tell you
a lot more.
Speaker 1: Now, Robert, I don't know if I've had you on
the show since they tried to claim, or I should say,
I think Sean Kirkpatrick maybe, I'm pretty sure with him
tried to claim that the aguadilla was birds. Oh yeah,
have you been on the show since, And I don't
think you have.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I have that. That's actually a
pretty silly demonstration that he does, And I'm surprised that
someone with a PhD in physics would do that type
of a demonstration. Of course, his PhD was in lasers,
so maybe he doesn't know a lot about in for red,
but I would think he should know the basics of
it before he makes that. Now his theory on those
being birds, even arrow in their first report says that
it's not birds, so that theory's pretty wid.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to see if I can pull
up that video and just show for the people that
have not seen it. I know that we've had this
on before in the past, but I'm going to see
if I can just pull that up right now and
just show to the audience. Yeah, here we go. So
this is I don't see it moving to you.
Speaker 2: That's the awkward be of video. Yeah it's moving now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So this you went through very careful, and
you have all kinds of harr goes right here, and
you have all kinds of information on this in particular,
Could you tell us how you went through all the
analysis trying to figure out what this thing is.
Speaker 2: You just saw a lot of black dots. Those are
cows that were in the background in this video. What
you're looking at black is hot, in white is cold,
and all of this you see all around the screen.
That is the metadata. It tells you everything from the
speed of the aircraft that's flying to the distance to
the ground across there. Right now, the object's passing over
the runway. It's passing across the runway at this point
in time. And so what we did is we followed.
You can do the line of sight. Right, you know
where it's at. That's a grocery store that it's passing.
And here's a road and you see the cars driving by.
You see it go behind a tree right there, right.
And so when an object goes behind something, then you're
able to know more closely exactly where that object is at, right,
because otherwise you don't truly know if it's one hundred
feet from you, or let's say the ground's two miles
is just above the ground and two miles away. Now
you're looking at the ocean. It's approaching the ocean. You
see the waves, and it's an important to know here.
The reason you see the waves is because there's a
temperature difference between the top of the wave and the bottom.
The object has now gone into the water. Now, the
argument that Errol has made is that the camera lost
its ability to differentiate the heat of that object from
the water. Right. But here's the problem with that argument.
When you were looking at that frame, you saw the
ocean waves, which means the camera was differentiating the difference
in the heat between the waves crest and the waves trough.
And these cameras are capable of differentiating down to a
tenth of a degree centigrade. So an argument that object
didn't hit the water. The camera just lost ability to
discern those temperature differences between supposedly because they're arguing that
this is a Chinese lantern. So the argument is, you
have this very hot heat source four hundred degrees or
more fahrenheit for this candle, and you've got water at
seventy degrees. The camera loses the ability to differentiate, Yet
the camera is still showing us the difference between the
temperature of water cress and the water trough in the ocean.
What should have happened, if their theory was Craig, is
when the object disappeared in the water, we should have
also lost the ability to see the ocean waves. That
should have all faded out.
Speaker 1: Also, now what are we looking at right now?
Speaker 2: Right now, you're looking back at the airport, and that's
a runway, that long vertical line you see going down,
and that was the pilot, you know, trying to find
the object again because it's finally gone under and disappeared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for that. I know you did a
lot of work on it. I appreciate that you went
through through it with us. And so I don't know,
there's another question here, So I don't know if that
is you said that as part of the videos that
they released, that one in particular is out there.
Speaker 2: Against the okwooda video is one of the ones they
released in this batch of material that was released. They
released it, and remember the one from the Knimets case.
They released that video again, and they released the Gimbal
video which was from the year twenty fifteen, and they
released the go Fast video again.
Speaker 1: Wow yeah yeap. So here's a question from Christopher Alexander.
Can you discuss specifically the one newly released photo from
the lunar surface in contrasts of years of claims about
much more seen on the Moon? Are you familiar with
that one?
Speaker 2: Yeah? They released from nineteen seventy two, and it shows
and it shows the lunar surface and very far off
there's three little blue dots and what appears to be
a triangular formation. Oh yes, I did see that, so
that actually someone I don't know who it was. They
were looking at NASA photos and you probably easily would
not see this, but most of the time you're seeing
the blown up image. But a person about fifteen years
ago found this on a NASA photo. So this is
not a new photo. It's been released. This is one
that's been around and there's been different theories that have
been thrown up to try to explain it. But I
haven't heard a good explanation yet of what those three
little lights are that are in that photo.
Speaker 1: Now, speaking of lights and things like that, does SCU
and we're going to talk about SCU and what that
is for the person that may not be aware, But
do they have anyone that focuses on video and photo analysis.
Speaker 2: Yes, we've got several people. That's what they do basically
is photo and video analysis.
Speaker 1: All Right, you heard me talk about off the coast
of Italy of some footage that I was sent just
in the last couple of days. I'm very interested in
having that looked at. We'll talk about that off air,
but we can do that for you. But let's talk
about for someone that is unfamiliar with what this SCU is.
I know you've been on it talked many times before.
And it's also it's been the icons right on my
website for anyone that goes to podcast UFO. You can
click on that and get there easily. It's been on
there for years. But it was was it indeed your
brainchild or were you part of the beginning of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I left mufon in the summer of twenty seventeen
and I wanted to create a more scientific organization. It
was I think you can call it my brainchild. And
I contacted Rich Hoffman because he had recently left and
he had worked with me on the Aguadea video. And
I contacted Larry Cates and Morgan Beale, the other individuals
who had worked with is on the AUGRADEA case, and
I told them what I'd like to do, and so
everyone was in agreement. So we created a nonprofit in
September of twenty seventeen and its mission was the scientific
analysis of Unidentified Area phenomenon. So then we just grew
organically so from there and it's been nine years now.
We now have four hundred and twenty members. We have
thirty three percent of those members have PhDs. Engineering is
the most common degree, followed by physics and astronomy, and
so we've got a lot. We've got professors from universities,
we have x NASA guys, we have people out of
the high tech industry, out of the defense industry, so
we cover the entire gambit. So we have people who
can do a lot of different things. So, for example,
a lot of the work that's being done now on
this latest release are being done by now will probably
pronounce his name wrong, but Sanan Robillard who's French. And
then also Miguel Pavan who is a PhD in biochemistry
and biological sciences. So we have a lot of people
that are available to us.
Speaker 1: That's great, and you think about it. When I started
the show back in twenty eleven, I would have ever
dreamed that this would have happened, because I was talking
to people of science way back then. That's not really
that long ago, but still, and I'd ask, why don't
you look into this topic. It's such a fascinating puzzle.
Why don't you take it seriously? And the ridicule factor
was different before twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: That's an excellent point, Martin, it was very different. There.
Some of your listeners probably have heard of what was
called the Invisible College back in the nineteen eighties and nineties,
where academia would get together, but they didn't want anyone
to know that they were talking about UFOs as it
was called then. And so to go today where we
have four hundred and twenty members and none of them
were worried about their careers by being part of SCU.
So that's a big change. And every year we put
on a conference, and this year we're having our conference
in Toronto, and one of the great things about our
conference is always who attends. In the past, Jay Stratton,
who headed up the UAP Task Force, was at a conference.
David Grush was at the conference before anyone knew about
who David Grush was.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Forgot about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing with Jay Stratton. He was at a
conference before we knew that he had been the head
of the UAP Task Force. So we have a lot
of people that show up in our conference that are
in the government and heavily involved in UAPs, but you
don't know about it till a few years goes. By
this year, Chris Mellon is heading off as our KENOT,
but we also have Randy Bostik. Randy was the head
of the Arrow. He was their science director for ERROW,
so he was their main scientist and he's retired from
ERRO and so now he's free to be on our
show or our conference, so he'll be there. And then
we have another eighteen scientists that we'll be talking at
the conference. We've got some individuals that you guys are
probably familiar with. Let's see Chris Rakowski who oh yeah,
Chris is great. Yeah, and Chris does the work with
the Canadian government, and that's what this conference is about,
how academian government can work together. So Chris will be talking.
Laura Domine one of our board members who's French. She's
now stationed in Japan and we'll be talking about the
history of the UFO subject in Japan. And Christian Peters
there is coming from Germany and is going to be
talking from the sociological aspects. And there's Chris on the
left that I just talked about. And Doug Bittner, he's
one of our video analysts who's he is a PhD
in astrophysics. Wow, he's worked with NASA. And then George
or Gergo there not George I guess that might be
his American name. He will be talking about the health
effects that have been reported as related to u AP.
And Glenn Robertson is a former NASA scientist who will
be talking about quantum gravity and issues around potential propulsion techniques.
And then Kevin Kanooth is always a great speaker, and
he'll be talking about hell anomalous is anomalous and he's
very Flora Dominey right there, and of course canoos without
Matthew sadegis and he'll be talking about their new venture
on using camera systems. And Michael Veillon is French and
will be coming and he has worked with GPON for
many years and will be talking to us about his
experience with GPON and what they've learned. Maya Callen is
getting her PhD and I believe anthropology and she will
be talking. And Mike Sefone they're trying to set up
within another organization the idea of how do you determine
who knows what they're talking about on the subject of
UAP right, And then Rainier is from his Dalen in Norway.
He is German, but he will be talking to us
about his Dalen and Richard Griffiths, an astronomer as a
professor in Hawaii, will be talking about is there a
way you could detect travel through space using gravitational warping
by looking at stars? And then of course Robert McGuire
will be talking about a camera system they have. Sean Grosbner,
he runs our UAP investigation group in SCU, so he'll
be giving an update. And then Stephen Brule has done
the work with Beatrice Varell related to astronomical plates, and
you will actually have I believe it will be either
Kevin Kneath or Laura Dominatu will be giving an opposing
view of what they have discovered. That's exciting and that's
important science, right, because yes, it is to have the
different views to determine who who's right and who's wrong.
And then Michah Hanks will.
Speaker 1: Be our mc perfect. He's perfect for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so yeah, what a great oh group of people here,
This is really exciting. Now, it's funny you mentioned the
first thing I thought of when you said about Christian
Peters here is you really now you have two people
from Germany, but you really hear too much about Germany
and Germans when it comes to UAP UFOs, this just
doesn't seem like a lot of maybe not Maybe there's interest,
but there's not a lot of involvement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot more involvement from Germany that there's
now a university. Gosh, for the life of me, I'm
forgetting the professor's name there. He's actually a member of
SCU also. But they actually have university funding to do
camera work, developing an automated camera system and they're going
to actually they actually have a project to put a
camera system on Mars, and one of the things they'll
look for will be UAP right, because when it's on Mars,
there's not much they have to worry about other than
meteors that might interfere. There's not going to be any balloons,
no aircraft, nothing like that. It will be interesting.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is amazing. So pop this question up here. Yeah,
there was talk before about structures on the Moon. Is
there anything new, whether that's true or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what they're referring to. There are linear
shapes that have been seen in various photographs on the Moon.
But and I'm not a geologist, I'm a chemist, But
there are geological type for formations in the way rocks
can break. That can cause you to have straight lines
at times. To me, you should always be open about things, right,
So is it possible? It could be. I just have
not seen the evidence yet to convince me that that
there are any type of geological structures on the Moon.
But if there were, that would be one interesting piece
of information, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I'm excited that within a few years or
maybe even by the end of next year, we're gonna
have feet on the ground again on the Moon. That's exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hopefully not long after that on Mars.
Speaker 1: I know that's isn't that a one way trip?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Have you ever seen the Martian I have?
Speaker 1: Yes, that made it good? Yeah, he made it back,
he did. Yeah. But there's a lot. There's a lot
involved in going to Mars. It's not like the Moon
at all. Oh, especially the distance it takes to get
there and the energy would take to come back, if
that was even possible. But so anyway, I'm excited for
this conference. That sounds like a great one for you.
Do you plan these things? How? You were already thinking
of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 3: When it comes to we will start thinking about the
twenty twenty seventh comp twenty twenty seventh conference probably in
about September.
Speaker 2: Like this conference in Toronto is July twenty fourth to
twenty six, and then two months after that will begin
looking at the next conference. Oh and one thing on
this conference. I wanted to tell your listeners too. It's
great if they can make it to Toronto, which is
a beautiful city, But beyond that, you can also attend
online and I believe the online costs is seventy five dollars.
And not only do you get to hear all of
the talks you can hear, you can watch recordings of
them up for up to three months, and you get
to to interface with everyone else that's in the online conference.
Speaker 1: Yes, I did that before. Yes, it's great. That works
out really great. And yeah, that's definitely an alternative if
you can't be there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Christopher Mellen, I've never met him in person,
but when he first got into this UF world, I
was the first one to interview him in twenty fifteen,
and he used to talk when we talked about them. Yeah,
we talked on the phone all the time when he
first was interested in this, and then he got involved
in to the Stars Academy, and so they kind of
said you can't talk to anyone, and I lost touch
with them. We're every once in a while with exchange
an email or whatever. But yeah, he's done a lot
of really good things for this whole.
Speaker 2: Oh I tell you what. Chris and Jay Stratton and
lou Alissando together, the three of them probably are you
could credit with really getting Congress interested into this subject.
Speaker 1: Yes, yep, I think they really have. They've really played
played a role in that definitely. So you talked about
all these different people that involved in the SCU. What
role do you think that academia should play as far
as uap s or UFO studies. I'm stuck on the
word UFO. I can't help it.
Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, if
you look on the government's depthside, yes, they use the
word UFO. So there's a lot of people get terminology straight.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you got me laughing and I forgot your question, Martin.
Speaker 1: So just what do you think academia what role should
they play when it comes to actually doing the type
of research. Do you think that I know that it's
being accepted more and more. But I think of the
people in SCU are looked at more I don't know,
with more credibility. I don't know what you want to
call it. But what role do you think that I'm
trying to remember exactly how I pose the question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, academia has a very important role in the
study of UAP, right, and that's one of the main
goals BESSEE is getting academia involved. So like we visit
universities sometimes to talk to students. We a lot of
our members are professors, and we really promote our members
writing academic papers that get into academic journals, and there
have now been I don't have the exact number in
front of me, but it's several dozens of papers that
are now in academic journals. And that's important because that's
how academia approaches a topic and so that that's something
we are really trying to be in the forefront on.
Speaker 1: And as far as are there, there's still critics out there,
of course, and they're calling UAP research silence, pseudoscience and
what do you how do you react to something like that?
Speaker 2: They should just go read these articles in academic journals.
You don't get into Nate Sure magazine, but it's not
a magazine the Nature Journal right by right, it writing
pseudo science. Right, you don't get into any of all
of these academic journals or peer reviewed, so in all
you have to do is go read what's there and
you'll know it's not pseudoscience.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned Chris Ruktowski earlier, a great guy. I
got to meet him up in Canada, and Canada launched
the Sky Canada project back in twenty twenty three. And
are we seeing any other countries becoming more organized and
investigations like they have?
Speaker 2: Really the countries that are well organized besides Canada and
the United States, Uruguay has a program that is actively
involved with in your military. It looks at UAP France, well,
Gipon is probably one of the best, and then England.
Of course they follow after the US, so it's not
as unique there. But those are the main countries that
have led in the study of Now Belgium, right they
but it was centered bore around the nineteen ninety Belgian
triangle wave of the equilateral triangles that hit Belgium in
eighty nine. Their military worked with their civilian organizations on that.
So there's also a new organization in Denmark now that's
studying ap There are organizations throughout Europe so much that
SCU actually has what we call our European Advisor, who
keeps up with everything happening in.
Speaker 1: Europe really wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we also have a Latin American advisor
because there's so much that happens in Latin America.
Speaker 1: Yes, yep. And you used to hear about CEPHA haaha
something like that from Chile, and I haven't really heard anything.
They were really involved for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were. I haven't heard too much from them lately.
So I'm not sure what's happened with the Chilean.
Speaker 1: And there was Joseli was heading that and I used
to hear from him all the time. I haven't heard
from him in a long time. I'm not sure if
he's still involved and that or not. So another thing
occurred to me, is there any cooperation between SEU and
the government as far as any of the research.
Speaker 2: Like we have, We've worked with AERO, right, We've been
like I was at their workshop, and so we work,
we try to work together, but the problem is the
classification that the government does. Right, So here's the Kitch
twenty two. Let's say a report comes from the Air
Force that comes from the Navy. They give it to AERO,
but there's the Navy in the Air Force that controlled
the classification, not error. So if Aero's got this interesting case,
they can't give it to SCU to analyze. They have
to find an organization somewhere.
Speaker 1: That has the sere thought of it though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that becomes the problem. And then let's say
they asked s you can you go get those the
security clearances? Yes, we could go do that, but then
the problem becomes, we can't publish it, right because it's okay,
this has been classified. Now we've given you security clearics
to look at it. Now that you've looked at it
and analyzed it, you can give us your report, but
you can't publish that without us going through it and
deciding what can and cannot be published.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So that that's difficult for academics like in SEU to
not be especially if they have a good finding, right.
And then if the government says now you can't publish that.
Speaker 1: Wow, I've had an attitude about AAR and so you
work directly with them, and a lot of what I've
had the feeling of is that they're more or less
window dressing, trying to keep things away from the public.
And I've heard so many stories about people that have
interviewed with them and then they said they didn't interview
with them, and I just didn't. I didn't trust them.
And I just since you actually dealt with them directly,
sat down with them, do you have a different attitude
than I do.
Speaker 2: It's probably in between. When Kirkpatrick ran the organization, that
was true, and I think that's what you were seeing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually think John Koslowski is very open. He's a
good guy. The people I was around are just like
you and I. They're trying to do their job. I
think they have a good group of people. The problem
is they work underneath Now it's I hate the word
Department of War rather than Department of Defense.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not too wild about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they work under that organization, so they don't have
They are very limited in what they can do, right.
I think that limits them, right. And the other limit
is in most of these government organizations, people come and
go within two years. And you and I are familiar
enough with this subject, it takes you two years just
to get your feet wet and understand the subject. It's
not a subject you can just walk into and hit
the ground running. So that is a problem not just
for aerow, that's a problem across any government agency that's
trying to learn and understand of the UAP.
Speaker 1: Subject, unless they had an interest before and really looked
into the.
Speaker 2: Topic, unless they had had a personal interest and had
already been studying it now. And that's where I'll just comment,
the FBI is in a unique position because, for one thing,
those guys are actual investigators, right, It's what they do
day in and day out. And those guys remain in
a role, can remain in a row for many years,
not just one or two years, and then are transferred
off into a totally different role. So I think the
FBI could play a unique role in the study in
the whole UAP subject.
Speaker 1: Now, when you think of the CIA, you think of
international That's what I first think of, like, how could
they have any involvement in UFOs. But according I've had
John Ramirez on here a number of times, and according
to him, there is some type of involvement or he
believes there is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Historically, on the subject of UFOs, and up. The
CIA has been involved from day one. Yeah, They in
the Air Force are the two organizations that have been
involved across and if you look what's happened since twenty seventeen, right,
what you're not hearing is anything from the Air Force
or any exactly it's the IA to speak of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was going to just say, we're hearing
from the Navy, and we even heard from the Army
at one Homeland security, yes, and then but where's the
Air Force that supposed to be protecting the skies? The
last one we're hearing from.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a neat little story. Hopefully Jay Stratton
won't get upset with me for telling this one.
Speaker 1: Hopefully.
Speaker 2: He was going in to brief Congress and there was
a two star general at the table, in the Air
Force general, and he says, why are you doing this?
You know we shut this down back in nineteen seventy.
There's no need to be raising this back up again.
And Jay said he looked over the guy, and after
the guy said, well, haven't you learned anything? And Jay said, yeah,
I learned one thing. Don't blame it all on swap gas.
Speaker 1: Oh funny, Hey, speaking of that, I know I've never
told you this story. I have told my audience at
least two times. But I'm in South Carolina, involved in
the guitar strumming group, and I got to talking to
a guy and he came over to the house and
we were talking, and he's a bit quite a bit
older than myself, and he said that he worked at
Right Path when he would be working in some big
governmental building and he says, oh, yeah, I used to
sit in and have dinner in the cafe with these
Project blue Book people and he said, yeah. He said,
I had an interest. It was interesting to hear some
of the stories and something like that. And then and
then he says, and then basically they supposedly closed up,
but he said they were still there, but some of
them were still there after in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I did not used to be convinced of this,
but I am today that there's an organization, and I
think pretty sure it's the CIA that continued to investigate
a UFO's and UAP throughout the nineteen nineties and into
the twenty first century after Blue Book shut down, And
I think I suspect that's the group, either they or
the Air Force that pulled the data off of the
USS Princeton.
Speaker 1: The data bricks, Yeah, they disappeared, and I was just
talking about that last week. So here's our last question
of the night here. Thank you Crank. Why is the
Navy more forthcoming that we were just talking about this
with information? Could it have something to do with maybe
the visitors live in the ocean and find them asa
possible threat. There's definitely a lot of talk about USOS
and the possibilities of that and how we know more
about the surface of the Moon than the ocean under
the ocean.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts on that, Yeah, there's definitely something to USOS.
I will not disagree on that. As to why the Navy,
if you look at history, the Navy has seems to
have always been more open to the subject than the
Air Force. And by the way, Jay Stratton, who headed
up the UAP Task Force, was part of the Naval
Office of o and I Office of Naval Investigations. So
the original group was the Navy headed up our first
UAP group.
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, Thank you so much, Robert. And so for
those listening, whether you're watching here on YouTube or Facebook
or Twitter, go find the information about the su conference.
And also, Robert, you wrote a book back in what
was the twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: Yes it was. I've got it right here is Larin.
In fact, I'm going to a book doing a book
fair this weekend in Austin. It's UFOs as Scientists explains
what we know and don't know. Yeah, my compilation of
the twenty years of work I put into this and
why I think UAPs are.
Speaker 1: So you're in Austin, Actually, yeah, I'm in Oh. I
love Austin. That's a nice area. Are you seeing any
of those Tesla robotaxis running around there?
Speaker 2: Oh? I haven't seen the teslas, but we have the waymows,
which is the Google tax all over the place. I
sometimes see twenty of them within a three mile car
trip that I'll take.
Speaker 1: We're all about that, Yeah, yeah, crazy, all right, Thank
you so much. Yeah, that's the way of the future.
We're all going to be sitting and letting the car
strivis around. Thanks so much. It's always a pleasure, Robert.
I enjoy each and every time you're on the show.
Speaker 2: May Tags. Thank you Martin.
Speaker 1: Yes, very good, and I'll talk to you soon. We
have some great guests coming up in the future. And
hold tight. Remember last week I said, speaking with James Fox,
he said something big is happening and he's going to
be on I'm not sure exactly when to be talking
about that, but I've heard other people alluding to that,
So whatever that is, there's a lot going on. And
thank you all for attending, watching or listening after in
the podcast or wherever you listen to the show. I
appreciate you all, and remember to keep your eyes to
the sky.