Speaker 1: Sixty eight years ago. Today, December two, nineteen fifty four,
Senate Resolution three oh one, the censure of the Senator
Joseph McCarthy, was entered into the record. The transcript reads
resolved that the Senator from Wisconsin, mister McCarthy, failed to
cooperate with the Subcommittee on Privileges and Elections of the
Senate Committee on Rules and Administration in clearing up matters
referred to that subcommittee which concerned his conduct as a
Senator and affected the honor of the Senate, and instead
repeatedly abused the Subcommittee and its members who were trying
to carry out assigned duties, thereby obstructing the constitutional processes
of the Senate. And that this conduct of the Senator
from Wisconsin, mister McCarthy, is contrary to Senatorial traditions and
is hereby condemned. Section two reads the Senator from Wisconsin,
mister McCarthy, and writing to the Chairman of the Select
Committee to study censure charges mister Watkins, after the Select
Committee had issued its report, and before the report was
presented to the Senate, charging three members of the Select
Committee would deliberate deception and fraud for failure to disqualify themselves,
in stating to the press on November fourth, nineteen fifty four,
that the special Senate Session that was to begin November eighth,
nineteen fifty four was a lynch party quote unquote, in
repeatedly describing this special Senate Session as a lynch b
in a nationwide television and radio show on November seventh,
nineteen fifty four, In stating to the public press on
November thirteenth, nineteen fifty four, that the chairman of the
Select Committee, mister Watkins, was guilty of quote the most unusual,
most cowardly things I've ever heard of, and stating further
quote I expected he would be afraid to answer the questions,
but didn't think he'd be stupid enough to make a
public statement. And in characterizing the said Committee as the
unwitting handmaiden, involuntary agent and attorneys in fact of the
Communist Party, and in changing in charging that said Committee
in writing its report imitated Communist methods that it distorted, misrepresented,
and omitted in its effort to manufacture applausible rationalization in
support of its recommendations to the Senate, Which characterizations and
charges were contained in a statement released to the press
and inserted in the Congressional Record of November tenth, nineteen
fifty four, acted contrary to senatorial ethics, and tended to
bring the Senate into dishonor and disrepute, to obstruct the
constitutional process of the Senate, and to impair its dignity.
And such conduct is hereby condemned. Does that sound petty
to you, mister.
Speaker 2: Fair Extremely so, extremely so. Sounds like an outright moral
which is always the camouflage utilized to destroy a political opponent,
especially when that political opponent has an accurately characterized and
given situation.
Speaker 1: It's interesting we talk about whether certain historical figures will
be rehabilitated, and I think as every day progresses and
every hour progresses, Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin is vindicated,
is rehabilitated, is shown to be the hero that he was.
Speaker 2: I completely agree. As a matter of fact, there are
very few individuals within American politics, particularly twentieth century American politics,
that you can point at as having been more sort
of maligned, not just with his political reputation, but also
with his personal reputation, which we'll probably get into. You know,
people and people like people like John McCain, for example,
and in contrast, get portrayed as these as these great heroes,
as these exemplars of Americana, as opposed to people like
McCarthy with much more tangible the thing I'm speaking of
at this instance's service records, but much more tangible sort
of performances and public lives. But Senator McCarthy, you know
you could, you could very easily say, made the wrong
enemy with the wrong group of people, and it very
much cost him everything, including his life when he died
in I think the Fesden Naval Hospital in nineteen fifty seven.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that life. So he
was born November fourteenth, nineteen oh eight and little Shoot, Wisconsin.
Jump forward to nineteen thirty five. He graduates from Marquette
University Law School. Thirty nine. He has elected a circuit
judge in Appleton, Wisconsin. From nineteen forty two to nineteen
forty five, McCarthy had enlisted in the US Marine Corps,
serving in the United States and the Pacific theater of operations.
I don't know if he ever got shot down, but
you know, you mentioned McCain, and I like my pilots
that don't get shot.
Speaker 2: So actually, the one of the things, this is kind
of skipping ahead a little bit, but one of the
one of the smear tactics that I think his political
enemies started using against him in his later career was
basically calling into question his service record. You know what
they started saying about him. Joe McCarthy was a officer
in the United States Marine Corps during World War Two,
and he was a specifically, he was an intelligence officer
that briefed bombing cruise before they went out and did raids.
And basically one of the things they made fun of
his Oh, he volunteered to fly all these collbat missions,
but none of them were actually dangerous, they were all
safe and he never got shot at. Let him unload
a bunch of AMMO on some trees to make him
feel like a soldier. And so they called him tailgun
or Joe and basically stuff like that. Basically, I personally,
I don't believe that's the case. They would say things like,
you know, he forged his own commendation letter for his
distinguished service. We're kind of skipping ahead, but this is
kind of what I'm talking about. I don't think any
of that's necessarily true. I think I think he very
much did fly several combat aviation missions that he volunteered
to because that kind of stuff was normal during during
World War Two. And and really I think I think
this is this is just this is just what happens
when you decide to cross the wrong group of people. Anyway,
forgive me, continue.
Speaker 1: On, let's not go there, all right. So nineteen forty four,
he runs unsuccessfully for US Senate while serving in the Marines.
Match just someone trying to do that today.
Speaker 2: Well, the small, small, small little aside. Actually, uh, we've had,
we have had senators who were actively serving in the
US military before I forget, I forget, there was one name.
This is this is this is just complete aside. But
during during the Battle of Balls Bluff in the American
Civil War, which is one of the first battle that's
the one battle where a US senator actually died in combat.
And you know, he was actually one of Abraham Lincoln's
a really really good friends, but he was shot in
the head. I completely forget his name, this senator. But
that's the one battle where we've had senators die in combat.
So in American history before now, before everything got boring.
Edwin Dickinson Baker. Edwin Dickinson Baker was his name. Before now,
when everything got boring, we had senators who would run
for Senate while serving in the US military. So this
very much had precedent.
Speaker 1: So he gets out in forty five, gets out of
the out of the Marines, and in Novenumber fifth, nineteen
forty six, he is elected to the US Senate. Nineteen fifty.
February ninth, McCarthy delivers a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia,
attacking communists in the State Department. This marks the beginning
of his anti communist tirade, and I have a speech
of his that I will read when we get to that.
March eighth, same year, nineteen fifty, the US Senate establishes
Foreign Relations Subcommittee, chaired by Senators Tidings of McMahon. The
Tidings McMahon Committee begins investigating McCarthy's accusations against the State
Department June twenty fifth, nineteen fifty. A couple months later,
North Korea invade South Korea. Nineteen fifty. Same year, December,
US Senate establishes Internal Security Subcommittee, chaired by Senator Pat McCarron.
The McCarran Committee works with McCarthy to expose a li
alledged communists. Six months later June fourteenth, nineteen fifty one,
McCarthy criticizes General George C. Marshall in a Senate speech
nineteen fifty two November fourth, About a year and a
half later after that, McCarthy is re elected to the
US Senate and Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower is elected President
of the United States nineteen fifty three. A couple months later,
January twentieth, McCarthy becomes chairman of Senate Permanent Subcommittee on
Investigations nineteen fifty three, same year, August thirty first, six
months later, seven months later, McCarthy begins investigating communists in
the US Army. About nine months later, nineteen fifty four,
March ninth, Edward R. Murrow criticizes McCarthy in his television
program See It Now the Press.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is kind of where you start seeing the
at least the foundations laid for the sort of third
estate taking a much larger role in electoral politics, because
you know, the vacuum left by FDR and the New
Deal regime, basically you didn't have this one big man
directing the whole press anymore. So starting with McCarthy, you
really kind of see this journalism class, be it newspaper men,
TV men, various reporters kind of start collectively advancing their
own interests as a media group, and that's kind of
evolved into what you see now.
Speaker 1: So from the same year, nineteen fifty four, this is
basically a month later, forty days later April twenty second
through June twenty through June seventeen, there are televised hearings
of the McCarthy looking into communists in the army. Six
months after that, November nineteen fifty four midterm elections, Republicans
become the minority party in the Senate. McCarthy loses his
chairmanship of Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. Roughly a month later,
nineteen fifty four, December second, the US Senate votes to
condemn McCarthy sixty eight years ago today, about six months
after that, almost to the day, about about three and
a half years after that, almost to the day, May second,
nineteen fifty seven, McCarthy dies of Bethesda Naval Hospital. He
is buried in Appleton, Wisconsin, on May sixth, So a
short life he was what forty nine, Yeah, he was young.
Yeah he was. Yeah. I don't I don't even think
he had reached his forty ninth birthday. He would have
been forty eight. Yeah, and yeah he's gone.
Speaker 2: It was what did him? I think it was like
a pulmonary embolism. But here's the thing, like when you
had people, especially people who would die in military hospitals
post war, you have all sorts of strange reasons on
unattributed reasons. There's there's several figures who die in military
hospitals after the Second World War that kind of have
question marks right next to their death and there, you know,
the McCarthy is one example. There's two other examples. The
other one is, of course George Patten, who had a
miraculous recovery and then the next day he was dead,
very strange after, you know, after making a bunch of
comments around a similar a similar group of communists kind
of getting into the US government like McCarthy did. And
then the third was actually Admiral William Forestall, who was
the last cabinet level secretary of the Navy and the
first cabinet level Secretary of Defense the Department of Defense
wasn't created until after the Second World War when it
was changed from the Department of War to the Department
of Defense, and Forestall was the sect death. And he
checks himself into Walter Reed Medical Hospital, and you know,
his because his mental state is so terrible, even though
he planned on going fishing that weekend with his son,
and then somehow his mental state just descends so much
that he throws himself out of the thirteenth floor of
Walter Reed. Very very very curious, and I mean, it's
it's just a it's a really strange trend. You see
with really vocal, outspoken figures who were very much war heroes,
who very much did fight and did do their service
to their country and felt like the country was kind
of being stolen out from under them after the war,
and they all just mysteriously die in military hospitals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't want to be the kind of people
who jump into conspiracy theories, but it does seem that
it is right around this time, right around the time
that the the quote unquote red Scare happened, that you
start seeing people, you know, when people start speaking out
against communists, as as we know that General Patten did,
and he said said things like, we we fought the
wrong enemy, and you know, wanted to go into wanted
to go into Russia. He knew that they were weak
and that they could probably be taken, but of course
that wasn't going to happen. It seems like people who
really went against that at the time were yeah, just
you know, passed on rather early, forty eight years old,
fifty seven years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's it's it's really strange. Yeah,
I don't want to get into sort of conspiracy mindset,
but you know, this is this is this is how,
this is how these sort of politics are worked. There's
all sorts of you know, plots to kill people, plots
to silence people, you know, plots to do anything. That's
that's why McCarthy's service record was smeared, especially after he
we're going to get into this, but especially after he
starts going after the army, which very much did have
a problem, especially post war, with these sort of these
sort of officers with ambiguous ties to the Soviet Union
or and if not to the Soviet Union, to the
remnants of the Socialist Party of America, which was in
many ways a sort of an arm of that, you know,
And I mean it's it's it's just weird. It's really
weird that this is. You can see this pattern with
all of these figures all criticizing the same thing, and
they all just mysteriously die untimely deaths.
Speaker 1: Yes, especially people talking about communism, as we already talked
about in the timeline. He really started speaking out against
it in nineteen fifty. And here's a This is Joseph
McCarthy on communism in nineteen fifty. And just stop me anytime,
because this is it's about three three hundred words, but
it's a nice little uh, he goes. He starts off saying,
five years after World War had been won, men's hearts
should anticipate a long peace and men's minds should be
free from the heavy weight that comes with war. But
this is not such a period. For this is not
a period of peace. This is a time of the
Cold War. This is a time when all the world
is split into two vast, increasingly hostile armed camps, a
time of a great armament's race. Today we can almost
physically hear the mutterings and rumblings of an invigorated god
of war. You can see it, feel it, and hear
it all the way from the halls of Indo, China,
from the shores of Formosa right over into the very
heart of Europe itself. Today we are engaged in a final,
all out battle between communist atheism and Christianity. The modern
champions of communism have selected this at have selected this
at this time as the time, and ladies and gentlemen,
the chips are down, they are truly down. He's interesting.
I mean, it's very I'm not comparing it even comparing
the the the thought of what he's saying there, the
spirit of what he's saying there, but almost a very
Yaqi like type of prose.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a there's a reason, matter of fact, correct
me if I'm wrong, but I believe Actually Yaki himself
wrote a speech for Senator McCarthy after the war that
he never gave, but he was supposed to give it
to the UH I was I think it was the
German American Association of America or something like that. And yeah,
like this is this is a you know, we've we've
talked about Yaqui before on your channel outside of here,
and this is kind of the era where you have
these sort of you have these sort of what you
would call post war right figures, because you know, we
we we've talked about this before. The American right wing
that existed before World War Two, the sort of America
First or segment led by lind Berg, which wasn't a majority,
to be sure, but was a significant minority, kind of
just vanished overnight after December seventh. And you've got these,
you've got these. You know, after the war, a lot
of them went and fought, you know, in Europe or
in the Pacific, and they came back and they tried
to they tried to have a semblance of a recreation
of a sort of post war American right. I can
virtually guarantee you if George Patten had made it back
to the United States, there would be a very healthy
and true right wing in the country right now. I
can virtually guarantee you that if someone, let's say like
Douglas MacArthur won the presidency, we would have had something similar.
But all of these sort of military men who experienced
the fight and experienced what the Soviets really were and
all this other stuff, they kind of they kind of
all just vanish, and you know, Yaqui Yaki and people
like him, you know, h Keith Thompson and other similar individuals.
H Keith Thompson I think was still in the military. Actually,
when when this started occurring? Really you see this, You
see this sort of influence from these post war right
wing figures, and it starts entering the discourse of mainstream
politicians such as Joseph McCarthy, such as the people who
who get on huact with him going after these communists.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't. He was in the Senate, and I forget,
what's the House? Yeah, forgive me. It's a common it's
a common misconception, and it's a smear. It's it's it's
something that's been drilled into us, that that McCarthy and Hughack.
McCarthy and Huck McCarthy and Hugh Ack. Yeah it was.
That was a House committee. And yeah, he was in
the Senate.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, but I'm more than capable of being wrong.
I'm very capable of being wrong.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I thought it for years. I thought of
and a friend of mine, I said it to a
friend of mine. My friend of mine is like, uh no, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, regardless, regardless, McCarthy did have a camp of
individuals around him who kind of you know, there there
were a few. There weren't a lot, but there were
a few who kind of joined him, and and this
this later became the foundation for what we would call
the John Birchers. The thing is is that the John
Birchers were very conveniently set up to basically contain all
of this to this sort of crazy group of of
fringe characters before, during, and after after McCarthy's lifetime. But yeah, no, yack.
You can see Yaqui's hands on a lot of this
and a lot of the hands of people who were
working with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the what you're talking about is you're talking about gatekeepers. Yeah,
and gatekeepers on the right. And I say it all
the time. The gatekeepers on the right right now are
you don't even need left progressive screaming fascist. And so
you have these people who call themselves the right. The press,
everyone calls them the right, and they are by no
means right wing, but they will be the first people
to scream fascist at the drop of a hat.
Speaker 2: Oh of course, you know, you know, and this existed
back then too, you had you had you know, quote
unquote Republicans going against McCarthy, like, oh, this man is deranged,
this man is crazy. Matter of fact, I think Eisenhower
actually was of that camp. This sort of like this
sort of like we're not going to go this far
despite the fact that Eisenhower was saved from court martialing
early in his career by a certain billionaire by the
name of Bernard Baruch, but we're we're not going to
get into that either.
Speaker 1: But regardless, he should have been hung by the neck
for what he did after the war in Germany.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, that's that's a whole other topic. But
you're you're completely correct on that. And you see this
sort of line of interests, you know, and this is
this is where you had people like Yaki running around
post war, and you have like like, these people didn't
just die out, like the America firster Is and the
Charles Limberg Caucus didn't die out during the war. A
lot of them went to fight because they were genuine
American patriots who wanted to fight and protect America, and
America was at war, so they went and fought, and
a lot of them came back and believed they fought
a war or at least that they're The consolidations made
after the war were really strange, especially after the sort
of basic surrendering of China to mouse communists, where we
basically just kind of let it happen, and that was
that was, that was that was, that was the big
sort of alarm bell that people like McCarthy and other
individuals started taking. And that's that's why Yaki's words, Yaki
is a sort of thought leader behind the scenes, started
penetrating into into mainstream discourse. This is the first time
post war you see this happen, and then it kind
of gets quashed, and then it starts happening another couple
of times in the decades up until this point, and
every time it gets kind of quashed as it happens.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to continue with this. So okay,
says ladies and gentlemen. Can there be anyone here tonight
who is so blind as to say that the war
is not on? Can there be anyone who fails to
realize that the communist world has said the time is now,
that this is the time for the showdown between the
democratic Christian world and the communist atheistic world. Unless we
face fact, we shall pay the price that must be
paid by those who wait too long. As one of
our outstanding historical figures once said, when a great democracy
is destroyed, it will not be because of enemies from without,
but rather because of enemies from within, the truth of
this statement is becoming terrifyingly clear, as we see this
country each day losing on every front. At war's end,
we were physically the strongest nation on earth, and at
least potentially the most powerful intellectually and morally. Ours could
have been the honor of being a beacon in the
desert of destruction, a shining, living proof that civilization was
not yet ready to destroy itself. Unfortunately, we have failed,
miserably and tragically to arise to the opportunity. The reason
why we find ourselves in a position of impotency is
not because of our only powerful potential enemy has sent
men to invade our shores, but rather because the traitorous
actions of those who have been treated so well by
this nation. It has not been the less It has
not been the less fortunate or members of minority groups
who have been selling the nation out that comes later,
but rather those who have all had the benefit that
the wealthiest nation on earth has had to offer the
finest homes, the finest college education, and the finest jobs
in government we can give. This is glaringly true in
the State Department. There, the bright young men who are
born with silver spoons in their mouths are the ones
who have been worst. In my opinion, the State Department,
which is one of the most important governing departments, is
thoroughly infested with Communists. I have in my hand fifty
seven cases of individuals who would appear either to be
either card caring members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party,
but who nevertheless are still helping to shape our foreign policy.
It's quite the accusation there.
Speaker 2: Huh, well, what's funny. What's funny is is he has
a number to back it up, and he waves around
a piece of paper and one of the as matter
of fact, in the US public school system, the red
scare is actually something that's focused on quite a bit,
specifically to eternally Burn McCarthy and effigy in the public
school system of the United States. You know, they make
you matter of fact, it stretches across more than one class.
You kind of actually learn it all simultaneously. You learn
it in history class, the same time. You read The
Crucible by Arthur Miller in English class, and it's put
together for a reason, because it's kind of meant to
reinforce from various points that McCarthy is bad and randomly
accusing people of that he was randomly accusing people he
had no reason to do. Is he was just going
around doing this for political gain. Well, people who just
start randomly accusing people of things don't tend to name
a specific number, and don't tend to have a list
in their possession with names, and they start naming names
and start going after individuals. And I mean, to be
to be completely honest with you, I mean, it's more
than fifty seven. It was a lot more than fifty seven.
But one of the problems McCarthy actually had, and he
wasn't he wasn't a bad man with bad intentions. He
tried to do too much at once. He really did
try to do too much at once, was to be fair,
at the time, you didn't know, you didn't know how bad,
how how really uh how really close to total subversion?
The United States government was by these this coterie of
organized individuals that had been working behind the scenes that
counted amongst their number. Very likely you know Dwight Eisenhower
and George Marshall, and you know other other such other
such high up generals, and obviously FDR and his coterie
and the people who came after and in the foundation
of what what you would call the military industrial complet
well we call today the military industrial complex. But really
it was just a sort of consolidation, a palace coup,
if you will, of these individuals, ensuring that their niche
within the US political system was never again challenged. And
any time it was, you know, after McCarthy, it just
became easier each time because they could just bring up
the mcarthy example and quash it.
Speaker 1: I will go on because here comes a name. This
brings us down to the case of one Alger hisss.
As you hear this story of high treason, I know
that you are saying to yourself, well, why doesn't the
Congress do something about it? Actually, ladies and gentlemen, one
of the important reasons for the graft, the corruption, the dishonesty,
the disloyalty, the treason and high government positions. One of
the most important reasons why this continues is a lack
of moral uprising on the part of the one hundred
and forty million American people. One hundred and forty million.
In the light of history, how this is not hard
to explain. It is the result of an emotional hangover
and a temporary moral lapse which follows every war. It
is the apathy to evil which people who have been
subjected to the tremendous evils of war feel. As the
people of the world see mass murder, the destruction of
defenseless and innocent people, and all the crime and lack
of morals which go with war, they become numb and apathetic.
It has always been thus. After war, However, the morals
of our people have not been destroyed. They still exist.
This cloak of numbness and apathy has only needed a
spark to rekindle them. Happily, this spark has finally supplied.
That has finally been supplied. He has lighted the spark
which is resulting in a moral uprising and will only
end when the whole sorry mess of twisted, warped thinkers
are swept from the national scene, so that we may
have a new birth of national honesty and decency in government.
I'm i'm, it's I wonder if you asked the what
three hundred and thirty million people in the country now,
and I don't know how many of those would even
be Americans technically who Algerhiss was and what position he held,
if they would.
Speaker 2: Even know, well his his was far from unimportant, for sure.
His his is interesting. I mean, I don't know, he's
He's sorry, I had a whole point, I had a
whole thing I was going to go into, and it
just completely slipped from my mind.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry it happens, man, I'm sorry, no, but but no.
Speaker 2: In all reality, Alger Hiss is kind of like the
archetypal example of the type of end of visual that
Joe McCarthy was going after. You know, his decently educated guy,
you know, John Hopkins, graduate from Maryland, one of the
you know, old family, all this other stuff. But like
a lot of this sort of waspy elite that happens,
especially in the latter half of the twentieth century, a
lot of them start getting involved with the Socialist Party,
if they hadn't been involved already, and you know, very much,
very much turn into assets for not just the Soviet
Union but for this but for this group. We keep
talking about because because because the thing is, it's like
I'm not and I'm not talking about an ethnic group
or anything like that. This was a this was a
coterie of people that first unified under the banner of
the Socialist Labor Party of America. And they've got precedents
before that, but the the Socialist Labor Party is one
of the direct predecessors of the later Socialist Party of America.
And their world headquarters was in New York City, all right,
And so so from the foundation of the Socialist Labor
Party of America in eighteen seventy six in New York City,
you have this what we call the long March of
the institutions, the long March of the institutions. This this
slow subverting, this slow taking over of all of these
various these very but it'd be public schools, whether it
be you know, small government post offices or the like.
You know, how did these people get into the State
Department in the first place. Well, they worked their way up,
They made little political gangs. They understood how the American
political system worked. They took very much advantage of the
rising tide of trade unions, especially in urban centers, to
get themselves into the American political system right and his
his somehow manages to make his way into the State Department,
where he is one of the key lawyers, one of
the key architects of what would later become the United Nations.
And when he's later tried and macarthy McCarthy starts going
after him. When when he's later tried for being an
espionage agent for the Soviet Union, it kind of no
one really stops to question, well, wait a minute, why
was this guy at the top of everything if he
was supposedly doing this, this, this, and this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's there's stuff I want to say, but I
don't want to say.
Speaker 2: We have to be we have to be careful on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know where I want to go. But it's
you know, let's let's bring this up. Okay. So this
whole quote unquote red scare as it's called as it's
as it's top. Now, McCarthy is to villain the Rose,
the Rosenbergs, the heroes who gave their lives for liberty
and freedom.
Speaker 2: That's the same thing with real quick that's the same
thing that that they kind of drill in your head
with reading Arthur Miller's The Crucible, which is a play
about the Salem which trial. Yeah, and it's like, oh,
you know, it's it's meant to make you think that, like, oh,
these terrible backwards people with these horrible ideologies always just
end up killing everyone for no reason. And the obvious
in Arthur Miller, who was a very well known communist
and his works kind of his works kind of reflect
that worldview was was I don't know if he was
stripped of citizenship. He was he had some sort of
international travel restriction on him because of this stuff, but
you know, yeah, that's that's that's very similar.
Speaker 1: Right. So the point is that this didn't have to happen,
and this was the fault of everybody who went along
with the program, you know, a program I'm talking about.
To me, the greatest thing that could have happened in
World War two was if the US like funded both sides,
funded Germany and funded the Soviet Union and just let
them fight it out and destroy each other pretty much,
and then maybe step in whenever when everything's too weak
or even not even just broker broker truces and you know,
just had these yeah, whatever you want to do with Germany,
but definitely make the Russians, you know, who were the
more dangerous to the world. That obviously not even make
them junior partners, but just make them a vassal state.
Speaker 2: Or they could have they could have, you know, they
It's like Paton said, they had the forces, and being
in Europe, they could have very easily just spun them
up and gone against the Soviets. The Soviets were already
bled fricking dry. Their entire supply chain was run by us.
Their entire economy was more or less run and planned
by US. And we could have, you know, if we
wanted to it. Yeah, it would have cost a lot
more dead, sure, But if the United States was really
a sort of imperial power looking out for its oh
for its own national interests, it would have done something
like that. It would have been able to sell it,
It would have been able to get get get through
with it, you know, the United States, the United States
was nowhere near the devastation that Europe had had. And
while that wasn't that wasn't known so much amongst the
popular conscious of the Americans. If if if we had basically,
if we had basically taken our forces in being and
gone after the Soviet Union and started listing all of
this stuff we knew they did, the war crimes, all
this other stuff we could have easily, we could have
easily like like spun that as a young you know,
we we we we allied with them to take out
this much more dangerous power and now we're going after
these terrible slav whatever. But we didn't do that. Why
didn't we do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well there's a reason. You know, they're people constantly,
you know there. I like to in conversation when I
talk about World War Two, I like to lead with, oh,
you mean the war that the United States fought side
by side with the Communists, leading to us leading to
a century of murder. And then I let them because
they don't want to argue that. They just absolutely flip
it and go, oh, would you rather fight with Germany
and you know, fight with mister Mustache? Well, you know,
then he then he gets to take over the world,
and then you find out that you're dealing with somebody
who has an IQ below eighty. Because it's like, yeah,
I'm sure that if we if the United States and
Germany had allied, that the United States would have allowed
would have allowed him to do whatever he wanted, because
that's what we do, right. I mean, it's just, oh,
we're not going to put any we're not going to
put any restraints on anyone, right that we ally with
people are just they're so sad, they're so brainwashed. I mean,
something that we've clearly we clearly see over and over
again now and any kind of any kind of discussion
when it comes to foreign policy, when it comes to Ukraine. Now,
one of my favorite, one of my favorite things, and
when I say favorite, I mean things I cannot despise
is people who just constantly keep bringing up the fact
that there's Nazis in Ukraine. Oh it's just like, are
you a right you're a right winger? Right, You're you're right,
you're a right wing anti fascist? Okay, great, right, yeah
that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the thing about it is, I mean,
and and a lot of the work, a lot of
the work that you're doing that my mentor, or Thomas
seven seven seven is doing with you on his on
your show and on the YouTube channel he's going to
be launching pretty soon. You know. This sort of revisionist
narratives have very much, very much taken hold in these communities,
especially and they're starting to they're starting to get some
traction outside of this community, you know, the the idea
that you know, perhaps perhaps we should understand World War
Two as it actually was as a series of competing interests,
but not say, competing national interests except for one instance
and likely the Third Reich. But outside of that, it's
kind of this it's kind of this sort of strange
series of like, you know, the the nascent national security
state that you start getting with OSS and double agents
and and and the sort of this sort of whole
espionage war that underpins the whole thing and kind of
exacerbates during the Cold War, especially after the invention of
weapons of mass destruction, which basically necessitate instanceutional lying in
order to in order to prevent or at least mitigate
the social consequences of people living with the realization that
any day, at any time, they could be eliminated entirely
from the earth regardless. You know, that's that's not to
excuse anything, because because basically the United States turns into
one big how should we say, open air laboratory after
the Second World War and even before. So the thing
is is that it wasn't it wasn't as established before. So,
and this isn't just a laboratory for science experiments, although
there are plenty of that. It's a laboratory for let's say,
let's say certain political objectives. And anytime anyone within that
sort of laboratory that became the United States, within this
this playpen that was the federal government and associated entities,
anyone who really kind of peeks up against that, speaks
against it, you know, like says, hey, maybe maybe things
shouldn't be this way, gets quashed, gets their their their
personal combat record disparaged in the papers. Socially, their name
is tarnished, their dragged through the mud, and they're essentially
banished forever from politics and from public life. And you know,
we're still living with the consequences of that. We're still
living although it's they're getting diminishing rates of return now,
but we're still living in a world where that's kind
of the norm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean we live in we live in
a world where it's like the is it they're calling
for Trump to Look who Trump's meeting with. Trump is
meeting with the you know, the white supremacist Nick Quintis,
And that means that anyone who meets you know, then
anyone who meets with that that guy you know, shouldn't
have a job in government. Well ask the ask the
next question. Should they have a job at all? Should
they be should they have a house? Should they should
they be allowed to go into a supermarket?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: What kind of world are we living in?
Speaker 2: I mean? What?
Speaker 1: Okay, So, some some people have thoughts that you don't
think that you don't agree with. Some people have thoughts
that you find reprehensible. So okay, so what I find, Yeah,
I've I'm very well read in Lenin, and I find
much to learn from him when it comes to strategy
and some things, some of his thinking, but for the
most part, his what his actions turned into or I
consider to be reprehensible, and I consider, you know, I'm
glad that he I'm glad he died miserable and sick,
you know, because of what what he did to people. Okay,
there's a there's a there's.
Speaker 2: A German proverb that goes yahdas designa, which means everyone
gets what they deserve.
Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately they don't.
Speaker 2: Well in this life for the next they get what
they deserve.
Speaker 1: Well, let's hope there is a next life, because I'm
my faith is it is that they're in the next life,
and that a lot of the things that we've a
lot of the things that people have done in this life,
they will get to pay for in the next.
Speaker 3: And well, yeah, well, speaking speaking of speaking of people,
you know, paying for things, I remember one time when
I was when I was in college, I was going
through my college library and I found this one book.
Speaker 2: It was titled something like Essays of American Conservatism or
something like that, and you know, I looked through the
table of contents. It was a lot of you know,
Verry Goldwater, Bill Buckley, sort of you know, milk toast stuff,
and but then my eyes kind of land on a
revel Ope Oliver Peace that somehow snuck its way into
this book. Now I understand mister Oliver was in many ways.
I don't I don't want to curse on this channel,
but let's just say, let's just say not not right
in the head in certain instances. However, he was a
very insightful commentator, and he was a genius philologist. He
was a genius at the Romance languages, and in many
ways his work is still the gold standard for people
in the field. But he wrote this article. It was
called I think it was titled something like the Extent
of the Communists Infiltration of America or something like that,
and he essentially outlines all of these things. And it
was insane that I came across this because he was
outlining all these things that you know, the dissident right
was talking about at the time that people that people
in these spheres on live streams were discussing were bringing
about the slow erosion of the United States. And he
references this this book called the Pentagon Case. So the
Pentagon Case is as it's a novel, but it's like
it has it's a novel quote unquote with like names changed,
but it's basically a confessional and it's a confessional with
name change, written like a novel basically because the individual
who wrote it under the pseudonym Colonel Victor J. Fox.
That wasn't his real name, but the pseudonym Colonel Victor J. Fox,
he wrote this book called the Pentagon Case. He wrote
a couple of other ones later on, but this one
is the important one. So Colonel Victor J. Fox was
a pseudonym adopted by a gentleman by the name of
Lieutenant Commander Robert A. Winston now Robert A. Winston was
a legend amongst the Pacific War's sort of aerial aerial
ace community. He was a Navy test pilot. He test
piloted the Boeing F four B, the F three F,
the Grumm and F THREEF. Rather, he flew on the Enterprise.
The Enterprise, by the way, had another undersung admirle by
the name of John G. Crommelin, who went home and
also also was politically maligned because Admiral John G. Crommelin,
who was the executive officer board the USS Enterprise, came
back and basically started talking about all of this same
stuff that was happening, and they they dragged him through
the mud too. They painted him as an Alabama backwards hillbilly.
But Robert A. Winston is interesting because because he was
also one of the first individuals to start working in
psyops all right, in syops. He after the war, after
his naval piloting career, he you know, he he got
involved with OSS, with that whole, with that whole how
would you say that whole nascent intelligence community sphere that
you know, the CIA hadn't been founded, yet the the
FBI was still very much a law enforcement entity. These
were the kind of people actually that Yaqui was involved with,
and that John John Birch the Man was involved with,
and that.
Speaker 3: H.
Speaker 2: Keith Thompson were involved with. Right, So these are the
kind of figures you have to point out a lot
of them were double agents during the war. But Robert A. Winston,
he wrote this book called The Pentagon Case where he
basically outlines all of the various all of the various
sort of all of the various, the various subversions that
occur in the United States. Both in the Pentagon. I apologize,
I lost my train of thought for two seconds. I
was trying desperately to get it back. The Pentagon, for example,
he talks about things like how inside the Pentagon images
of wounded soldiers with you know, in pain getting treated
by medics were placed everywhere as a demoralization tactic instead
of triumphant photographs of soldiers coming back from a bombing
run or something like that. Stuff as little as that.
He talks about stuff like how pornographical magazines.
Speaker 3: And that.
Speaker 2: And that that that the dumbing down of the English
language occurring with mass media is being purported and pushed
on the front of newspaper stands, and that educational sindards
were dropping amongst children. He he, you know, this is
all this is all kind of related to this. I
don't mean to sound like I don't mean to sound
like a character in What's What's the movie? What's the
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb
doctor strains love. I don't mean to sound like General
Ripper with all of this right, with my precious bodily
fluids being taken. But this is all, like, you know,
this is all just obvious. IQ scores have dropped, literacy
rates have more or less dropped. Most people can't read
at an eleventh grade reading level. And all of this
was kind of pointed out by this individual, Robert A. Winston,
who wrote this book and published it the year after
McCarthy died, because the you know, the quote unquote read
scare as it's called. You know, you're scared of something
because that thing can do you harm, all right, So
so it was a very it was a very justified scare.
And you know, he kind of gets contained with a
lot of these people into the John Birchers. But this
was this was this was real. At the time, there
was a significant portion of the US population kind of
wondering what was going on and why why this great
victory that they had achieved in World War Two, which
America was the most powerful nation on earth, with the
best industry, with the most strong army, the best political
quote unquote, the best political system, and all this other stuff,
and how they just all pissed it away in the
decades after. I don't know, I mean, I just don't
know why. I don't know why any of it was done.
Speaker 1: Well, Kley Bono, who benefits? And it always comes down
to that comes down to everything I mean, and we
see it today.
Speaker 3: You know, I.
Speaker 1: Applied that today to the whole Kanye thing. It's like, Okay,
who's benefiting from him going out and saying these things?
But I don't know that.
Speaker 2: I do not, not not the individuals, not the individuals
that tend to ascribe themselves as the traditionalist or you know,
even even you know, further right than conservative individual basically
normal people with normal opinions who just want the United
States and other countries like it to remain true to
what they've always been, to these founding principles it doesn't
benefit us, you know, I mean some people I have
I have disagreements with my mentor over this. You know,
I'm not gonna I'm not going to discuss Adolphus Heedler
one way or another. But like, you know, how does
it benefit us to go on national television and just
start talking about this individual and all that other stuff
because he's been dead for seventy years. Whether you think
he was the greatest man who ever lived or the
worst villain who ever lived, he's been dead for seventy
years and he never came to my country, right, I mean,
I mean that doesn't benefit us. That doesn't benefit us.
It's like you said, que bono, what benefits us?
Speaker 1: The to bring this back to where we started with
McCarthy's you you look at something like his speech there,
and you see how far we've fallen. Look at the pros,
look at what he's saying, Look at how he's saying it,
look at the the desperation in his voice. Do you
see anyone on the quote unquote right right now, even
those the America first Trumper people you know, who've been
elected to office, speaking with the kind of of urgency
that he's speaking of. I mean, he we are living
in a time that is much more dangerous than he
was living in. And who is who are the ones
who are screaming loudice, Who are the ones who are
trying to put a message out there that sounds halfway
intelligent in the current world we live in, podcasters, sub
stack writers. I mean, look where we are, man, I mean,
this is like it's literally up to us. There is
no Joseph McCarthy out there. It's up to us.
Speaker 2: And the ones, the ones that do show themselves are
always going to be fair weather friends who just who
just know where the wind is blowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. Uh, I was reading a I
shared a tweet today. I think it was, or it
was I might have shared it on Facebook. I'm still
on Facebook because it's a great place to promote the
show and everything like that. But it was a tweet
that said where he said, Look, I'm not saying that
forming a traditionalist monarchy somewhere in northern Ohio with the
plan of reconquering America over five centuries is a realistic plan.
I'm just saying it's more realistic than thinking voting Republican
will get anyone out of this.
Speaker 2: I think it's more realistic than I'm thinking voting will
get anything out of this generally. You know, I make
I know, I make a lot of Hey, you know,
I make people angry. Oh, Paul third, he's a registered Democrat. Now,
I just I say that because I want to tell
I'll tell you all the reason why I say that
right now. Voting doesn't matter. Voting has never mattered all
right in the United States. You know what matters. It matters.
It matters where in the pipeline of power. You sit
and guess what. The pipeline of power is a lot
more accessible than people think it is, right, it's it's
a lot more accessible than just then just going up
to Congress and whipping up a frenzy about, you know,
one thing or another. You know, even if there is
something to have a frenzy whipped up about, and even
when the time favors it. Now is a lot different. Now, Now,
all that matters is basically going out and trying to
trying to build things with each other, trying to support
each other, trying to aid each other, and trying to
make sure that something like what happened to Senator McCarthy,
who will be rehabilitated, and there will be statues for him.
Can never happen to any of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's I think one one of the
easiest ways to get into that position of power. If
you if you live in a small town, run for sheriff,
run for shriff. It's the one thing that the John
Birch Society always had right was that if if you
have a strong sheriff who is dedicated to liberty and
dedicated to localism and dedicated to his town and hates
the federal government, you're you have something that most locales
don't have.
Speaker 2: Or if you have a sheriff that already does that,
you don't need a run for sheriff. But be one
of his top guys, Be one of the guys supporting them,
supporting him, show up, show up to his rallies, show up,
you know, get go door to door. You know, it
really does start with you. And in all honesty, if
you have you know we were talking about I do
a weekly space. I know we're coming, we're coming pretty
close to the end here, but I do a weekly
space on my Twitter every Wednesday night. The time varies,
but I think I'm going to have it be from
like eight pm to ten pm in the future Eastern Standard.
But we were talking about this on Wednesday night in
this space I do on Twitter called Paul's Garden Party,
and we had an individual who actually was very active
in local government and was very well aware of what
occurred within localities, and he basically said, look, you have
a couple of people less than ten people. If you're
friends with less than ten people, and you all live
around the same area, where you can move them to
around the same area within a year, you could more
or less take over a locality. You could have people
run for town council, county treasurer, stuff like that. And
that is where you basically control everything, at least not
control everything, but basically you're at that point. You're at
that node. You have contested that node, and that's what
it takes. That's what it's going to take. That's not
where you stop. The problem is a lot of people
think that's where you stop is your local community. You
don't stop. There's always a next step. But that's the
first step.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the first step, and shut up about what
you're doing, you know, well, I mean getting together and
having a plan and showing people a plan for what
you're doing is important to the people on the ground
who are helping you, who are hoping to be helped
by you. But when it comes to really laying out
what you're doing publicly, shut up. But yeah, I've written
a lot about, you know, having a plan and having
a plan, and I think people are like then, people
are like, well, talk about what you and I'm like, look,
I'm in the middle of my own plan. I'm not
going to tell you what the hell I'm doing. I'm
not telling you where I'm going, and you know what
I'm looking at. And yeah, here's a comment. Libertarians have
been trying to do this in New Hampshire. Sure, okay,
you got a couple of problems with New Hampshire. One,
it's cold as hell and people don't want to move there. Two,
you're surrounded by liberals who all they have to do
is cross the border and go into the state. And
three a lot of those that's not going to work
unless they're explicitly right wing. See Robert Conquest. And I've
been to the New Hampshire twice to speak at Free State,
Free State Project events and yeah, there the right wingers
are there, but they are outnumbered. The right wingers who
call themselves libertarians there are outnumbered, and that just doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, we have a we have a super
cheat here actually real quick that I would like to
read out from Paul W.
Speaker 1: Paul W.
Speaker 2: Hall rather for three US dollars, thank you very much,
mister Hall for supporting the Old Glory Club. And he says,
were there any ties between McCarthyite Republicans and strong Therman
style Southern Democrats, I'd imagine they'd have been natural allies
in this period. Well, you would think that the problem,
the problem was strong Therman and the problem with Southern Democrats.
And this is something, this is something that myself and
individuals like Ryan Turnip Steed and Christopher Sambatch have tried
to have tried to get into the consciousness that the
Southern Democrats were interested pretty much first and foremost in
what benefited the South, specifically their own states. Strom Thurman
very rarely got involved. This is one of the things,
one of actually the strengths the Southern Democrats did. Other
than like the whole civil rights issue, the Southern Democrats
didn't really speak up one way or another on much
of anything. Yeah, they said a couple of platitudes here
and there, you know about how communist subversion was was
was you know, probably not the best thing. But they
weren't very involved with the McCarthy Art Republicans. This was
actually kind of limited to uh, to McCarthy himself and
his coterie.
Speaker 1: Well, on that note, I think we should get going.
I know you have a you kind of have a
hard out, so you want to you want to, I'll
just say the Pequanana Show and I'm trying to put
some of our talks up on h on my feed
and drive some people here to the Old Glory Club
because I really believe in what we're doing, even if
I always seem to be traveling on Tuesday nights.
Speaker 2: But the.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so the Pekenonas Show podcast is everywhere, and
Pete substack dot com. Uh what do you what do
you have to say?
Speaker 2: Oh, just you know, follow me on Twitter at cav
King Paul, subscribe to my sub stack. Even though I
haven't published anything for like a month and a half,
two months, but I have. I have a bunch of
articles in the hopper right now and I'm probably gonna
put them out in the Flurry when I get some
time on Telegram, Hotel Fahrenheit, and but more important than
all of that, support the old Glory Club, like share,
support all of our content, and I'm be friends with
everyone that you know in your life.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you everyone for showing up. I think we
had close to one hundred people on this one at
one point. Thank you for the super chat and till
the next time.
Speaker 2: More people re elected. That a completing before people and
more than that