Speaker 1: One of the biggest hot button issues throughout the course
Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty four election, and it's become the
Speaker 1: biggest issue, perhaps the biggest issue. One of the biggest
Speaker 1: issues in the first days of the new Trump administration
Speaker 1: is that of immigration, immigration enforcement, and there have been
Speaker 1: questions and concerns about some of the ethical issues involved
Speaker 1: surrounding the enforcement of immigration law. Joining me to discuss
Speaker 1: those issues for the first half of the show is
Speaker 1: the Bishop of the Roman Catholicics of Fresno, Bishop Joseph Brennan.
Speaker 1: Bishop Brennan, Welcome to the John Girardi Show.
Speaker 2: John, good to see you again. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's always good to have you on.
Speaker 1: You made a few headlines just about three weeks or
Speaker 1: so ago when you had an opbed that was published
Speaker 1: by the Fresno b and a couple of other local
Speaker 1: news outlets, and it was with regards to some immigration
Speaker 1: enforcement efforts that were taking place in the San Joaquin Valley,
Speaker 1: and you had some concerns about wanting to, you know,
Speaker 1: safeguard the legitimate rights of immigrants who are here in
Speaker 1: the valley. Since then, a lot of immigration law and
Speaker 1: immigration enforcement water has flown flowed under the bridge. I
Speaker 1: mean that was that was pre Trump inauguration. So basically
Speaker 1: I wanted I thought it would be an interesting thing
Speaker 1: for the show to have you on to discuss sort
Speaker 1: of your view as a pastor who has you know,
Speaker 1: members of your congregation who are directly caught up in
Speaker 1: immigration issues, and sort of to talk about the are
Speaker 1: specifically Catholic, but I guess the broader Christian traditions surrounding
Speaker 1: thoughts on migration and immigration and the limits of these
Speaker 1: this right that people have to migrate, and and sort
Speaker 1: of talking about the American context.
Speaker 3: So I thought, maybe first.
Speaker 1: Just to kind of give you the floor of kind
Speaker 1: of general Catholic teaching about immigration.
Speaker 3: Sure, just just the just to give us the.
Speaker 1: Ground level of what we think, because I think on
Speaker 1: the right especially, there's some caricature that you know, the
Speaker 1: bishops are just completely in favor of open borders, and
Speaker 1: I want you to kind of I'll give you space,
Speaker 1: I'll stop youy ammering and give you space to kind
Speaker 1: of lay out sort of the basic principles that of
Speaker 1: Catholic teaching with regard to immigration.
Speaker 2: Wonderful, Thank you, John. Actually, there may indeed be some
Speaker 2: bishops who are in favor of open borders.
Speaker 3: But that's not the that's.
Speaker 2: Not the stance of the Roman Catholic Church that I belong.
Speaker 1: To, right well, and that might be something we'll discuss
Speaker 1: later on, but anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, you mentioned the rights of immigrants or the
Speaker 2: rights of people to migrate for various reasons, and the
Speaker 2: Church has promoted that and sustained that. But the language
Speaker 2: is specific and I think and instructive for our time,
Speaker 2: in our day and age right now. The language is
Speaker 2: to people have the right to sustain their life. So
Speaker 2: it's not like the right to a better life or
Speaker 2: the right to the American dream. We've heard about that, sure,
Speaker 2: people seeking that, so, John, the language is interesting in specific.
Speaker 2: It talks about the right to sustain one's life or
Speaker 2: the life of one's family. So it's about basic human
Speaker 2: rights for literally in a sense, preserving your life and
Speaker 2: protecting the lives of yourself and your children. And if
Speaker 2: to do that a person deems it necessary to migrate
Speaker 2: from one place to another, that's kind of the right
Speaker 2: that's being talked about in the Catholic social teaching. But
Speaker 2: we've had an open border for a really long time
Speaker 2: pretty open border like a sieve, and that has created
Speaker 2: some incredible difficulties and problems for our people. And the
Speaker 2: recent developments in our country and here in the state
Speaker 2: of California, I have just simply brought that to the
Speaker 2: forefront in ways that you know, we might have been anticipated,
Speaker 2: but have kind of in a sense overwhelmed a lot
Speaker 2: of our people.
Speaker 1: But yes, you know, like and because this is kind
Speaker 1: of an interesting way to think about this in the
Speaker 1: context of I mean, one of the big changes that
Speaker 1: happened under the Biden administration was I think the abuse
Speaker 1: of the asylum system within American law. So the asylum
Speaker 1: system which is kind of designed for you know, I'm
Speaker 1: fleeing Cuba on a raft. I don't have time for
Speaker 1: a legal migrant immigration process. I wash ashore and they
Speaker 1: assessed my asylum claim. It seems clear that basically a
Speaker 1: lot of immigrants coming through Latin America, many of them
Speaker 1: not some of them not Latin American, from China or
Speaker 1: from all over the world, realize well, this is a
Speaker 1: way kind of to cut the line that I can
Speaker 1: just show up at the border make a claim of
Speaker 1: asylum when really what I'm seeking is an economic I'm
Speaker 1: wanting to come to America for the economics, yes, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to make this asylum claim to almost get
Speaker 1: me to the front of the line. And then with
Speaker 1: the Biden administration basically changing from the remain in Mexico
Speaker 1: policy of the Trump first Trump administration. Two, Okay, well
Speaker 1: you can come into the United States. We'll give you
Speaker 1: sort of we'll let you in and then just show
Speaker 1: up for your court date in five years. That's been
Speaker 1: I think that that's been a huge motivator of this
Speaker 1: huge influx. And as you're saying, it's sort of the
Speaker 1: right to migrate isn't just a right to necessarily American
Speaker 1: economic opportunity.
Speaker 3: It's just a right to help sustain yourself exactly.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you mentioned asylum seekers and in a sense
Speaker 2: refugees as well, and those that need to be honored, respected,
Speaker 2: but identified and vetted too. And that's been a huge
Speaker 2: problem in this whole mess. And it is a mess.
Speaker 2: And the Church does recognize, you know, the rights for
Speaker 2: states to preserve borders, to secure borders, to maintain them,
Speaker 2: supervise them in a sense, the right to form immigration
Speaker 2: policies that are fair and just. And you mentioned people
Speaker 2: who are in line, and we need to honor them too.
Speaker 2: And the question of justice pertains to the folks who are,
Speaker 2: in a sense trying to do it the right way,
Speaker 2: and the Church is certainly not opposed to that. But
Speaker 2: you know, back in December, in fact, on the very
Speaker 2: special feast day in our Catholic Church, the Feast of
Speaker 2: our Lady of Guadalupe, the Catholic Bishops issued a statement
Speaker 2: kind of anticipating some of the things we're going through
Speaker 2: now in regards to immigration. I wanted to just read
Speaker 2: one very short paragraph from that that kind of captures
Speaker 2: the certainly the spirit and the intent of my fellow
Speaker 2: bishops here in the state of California, but I think
Speaker 2: any group of bishops in the country dealing with this,
Speaker 2: because this is the rationale behind our care and support
Speaker 2: of everyone involved in this, but especially those immigrants who
Speaker 2: might be at risk or suffering. So rooted in the
Speaker 2: Gospel of Jesus Christ and the sacred dignity of every person,
Speaker 2: we commit to accompanying and walking in solidarity with you
Speaker 2: are migrant brothers, sisters, and families through this uncertain time.
Speaker 2: And here's a key sentence. I love this. We will shepherd,
Speaker 2: you spiritually gather information and resources and continue to advocate
Speaker 2: for your dignity and family unity.
Speaker 1: So all right, well, and that all makes perfect sense
Speaker 1: that I understand like being concerned. What were some of
Speaker 1: the specific things? I guess there are some there's some
Speaker 1: pushback that probably you yourself have gotten and probably the
Speaker 1: California Bishops have gotten for some of the comments and
Speaker 1: statements made well made since over the course of December
Speaker 1: into January with immigration enforcement stuff to say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: why is why are we this concerned if people did
Speaker 1: actually you know, who is being made to be fearful
Speaker 1: right now by it, you know, stepped up immigration enforcement efforts,
Speaker 1: you know, if people did in fact come into the
Speaker 1: country illegally or have over stayed visas. And you know,
Speaker 1: I understand the bishops wanting to be close to people
Speaker 1: who are fearful, but at the same time, like if
Speaker 1: you're fearful because you entered the country illegally or you've
Speaker 1: overstayed your visa, those seem to me to be relatively fair,
Speaker 1: you know, ground rules for immigration efforts. So are there
Speaker 1: things you've seen as far as enforcement measures that are
Speaker 1: specifically unjust?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: And I think certain aspects certain changes that the Trump
Speaker 1: administration has announced I'm not crazy about, like changing the
Speaker 1: rules about enforcement on the grounds of churches or things
Speaker 1: like that that I understand. But are are there certain
Speaker 1: things that you've seen that you think are sort of
Speaker 1: unfair or that have caused illegitimate or undue fears within
Speaker 1: the immigrant community.
Speaker 2: So John, I wouldn't say that there are illegitimate or
Speaker 2: unjust would It would be akin to someone drive being
Speaker 2: on a suspended license or without any license at all,
Speaker 2: and being nervous and on edge at old times because
Speaker 2: they're worried about a police officer, you know, pulling them
Speaker 2: over for you know, a broken headlight or something right exactly,
Speaker 2: and then it starts a whole cascade of real problems
Speaker 2: for them. So our people are living under that kind
Speaker 2: of fear who are undocumented and have had pastors and
Speaker 2: religious education directors and others report directly to me about
Speaker 2: families not showing up, families not sending their children to
Speaker 2: even our Catholic schools, and or to religious education problems.
Speaker 3: Programs, sorry, programs.
Speaker 2: We sometimes I have major religious education problems, yes, and
Speaker 2: even not coming to Sunday liturgy Sunday matter. So those
Speaker 2: problems are real, unjust no, unfair, No, we all acknowledge that. Yes,
Speaker 2: the technicality, if you can even call it, that is,
Speaker 2: when you cross the border without documents, you have broken
Speaker 2: the law. Yeah, However, the numbers are staggering, and I
Speaker 2: don't know how we handle that, you know, fairly and
Speaker 2: justly and and without instilling real, you know, anxiety and
Speaker 2: fear in our community.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I guess that's the that's sort of
Speaker 1: the double edged sort of this. I mean, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, like, yes, I think family separation in any
Speaker 1: context is awful and horrible.
Speaker 3: At the same time, I guess I'm finding it hard to.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the one way in which I'm I
Speaker 1: think there's a real legitimate thing to say on behalf
Speaker 1: of immigrants who are in these situations is if you've
Speaker 1: the whiplash back and forth of American policy over the
Speaker 1: last ten years, let's say, going from Trump forty five
Speaker 1: like don't come in the borders more or less secure
Speaker 1: remain in Mexico policies in place heavy discouragement, which I
Speaker 1: think had a deterrent effect on even just the number
Speaker 1: of encounters like that the border patrol was getting like
Speaker 1: people realized that the word got out, don't try it. Yes,
Speaker 1: then the whiplash the other way of green light come
Speaker 1: on in, And now you've got some Now you've got
Speaker 1: like an immigrant family who got in under either over
Speaker 1: state of visa or came in unlawfully or whatever the
Speaker 1: situation is, who are now like, Okay, well what the heck?
Speaker 1: Like I had this green light basically to come in
Speaker 1: for four years. Now, all of a sudden, you're telling
Speaker 1: me we're doing a mass deportation, ultimate crackdown, Like there's
Speaker 1: that is I guess to me, that's like understandable to me,
Speaker 1: Like this is ridiculous. Yes, And I guess you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if there's much good
Speaker 1: in assigning the blame there to whatever extent I would.
Speaker 1: I guess I would put it at the feet of
Speaker 1: the Biden administration. But is that a thing that you're
Speaker 1: sort of seeing? Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And it's that yo yo of going back and forth.
Speaker 2: That's just maddening for all of us, and maddening and
Speaker 2: frustrating for the the undocumented people who have crossed those boards,
Speaker 2: who were allowed to cross those borders in gigantic numbers.
Speaker 2: But even before that, you know, President Barack Obama deported
Speaker 2: more people than any president in the history of the state. Yeah, well,
Speaker 2: and nobody complained about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: He gets a weird sort of pr pass for some reason,
Speaker 1: even though he was the deporter in chief.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, And I've heard the numbers anywhere from eight
Speaker 2: million to twenty million, right, that are here illegally, And
Speaker 2: I like you were kind of getting that. I think
Speaker 2: they're here and in a sense they were allowed to
Speaker 2: be here. The border was allowed to be in total
Speaker 2: disarray and personally, and I believe my fellow bishops would
Speaker 2: agree with this as well. You know, we acknowledge the
Speaker 2: chaos and disarray the border and that that needs to
Speaker 2: be addressed and needs to be fixed. As I said earlier,
Speaker 2: countries have the right, in fact the obligation under Catholic
Speaker 2: teaching to maintain and secure their borders and to establish
Speaker 2: the fair and just immigration policies. So yeah, we're not
Speaker 2: against that, and we need to restore this sense of
Speaker 2: security and peace for our citizens in our nation, and
Speaker 2: we acknowledge that, justly or unjustly, for the past several years,
Speaker 2: people have been freely let into our country. Many of them, yes,
Speaker 2: seeking a better life in the American dream, but some
Speaker 2: also legitimate asylum seekers. They haven't been vetted in a
Speaker 2: good or proper or even organized way.
Speaker 1: We're talking with the Bishop of the Roman Catholic Dices
Speaker 1: of Fresno, Bishop Joseph Brennan, and we will be back
Speaker 1: with more on the John Girardi Show. We're talking with
Speaker 1: the Bishop of the Roman Catholic Dices of Fresno, Bishop
Speaker 1: Joseph Brennan, and Bishop Brennan. We're talking about all these
Speaker 1: different immigration issues. I think one thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: sort of clarify for local Catholics in Fresno. There's been
Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about the role that Catholic institutions
Speaker 1: have played in the context of immigration. Catholic Charities on
Speaker 1: a national level has participated in federal government programs for
Speaker 1: refugee resettlement, and there's been some accusations on the right,
Speaker 1: some fair, some less fair, some some pretty fair. But
Speaker 1: it involves individual, specific local Catholic charities organizations, which you know,
Speaker 1: they don't all answer to one single umbrella. Fresno Catholic
Speaker 1: Charities is a completely different thing from Milwaukee Catholic Charities
Speaker 1: or San Antonio Catholic Charities or whatever about these refugee
Speaker 1: resettlement programs and whether they're actually facilitating people arriving unlawfully
Speaker 1: or not, just as a clarification about what our local
Speaker 1: Fresno Catholic Charities and our local dioceses is or isn't
Speaker 1: doing with regards to those kinds of programs.
Speaker 3: So we're we're not.
Speaker 1: There's no participation in the Diocese of Fresno specifically with
Speaker 1: these refugee resettlement.
Speaker 2: No, not, and not on my watch anyway, Okay, if
Speaker 2: I have anything to say about door to do with it, No,
Speaker 2: but continuing the function that Catholic Charities does on a
Speaker 2: daily basis anyway, attending to whoever walks through the door,
Speaker 2: And obviously we don't. We don't ask for about their
Speaker 2: legal status, you know, any more than we ask about
Speaker 2: the legal status of anyone, believe it or not, attending
Speaker 2: our Catholic schools or or religious ad or walking through
Speaker 2: the door of the church on Sunday. No, we're not,
Speaker 2: and certainly in my time would never be involved in that.
Speaker 2: And there are I think some real legal and even
Speaker 2: maybe ethical issues involved well, you know, one of the
Speaker 2: things we've been in a betting is not what I
Speaker 2: would be into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well even like one of the things I've
Speaker 1: seen was this got shared around a lot online that
Speaker 1: there was a specific local Catholic Charities entity. I won't
Speaker 1: say where, but basically it was providing this like how
Speaker 1: to video, like if the immigration enforcement comes to your
Speaker 1: place of work, you know.
Speaker 3: Don't say this, and do say this.
Speaker 1: If they are asked to identify what country you're from,
Speaker 1: don't say what country you're from. And I was like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if you're an immigration attorney, I think that's a legitimate
Speaker 1: thing to do and be.
Speaker 3: I think it's legitimate to be, you.
Speaker 1: Know, defense counsel for in the context of immigration law.
Speaker 1: But I guess I don't understand the posture of the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church effectively doing that as defense counsel more or
Speaker 1: less like as opposed to providing defense attorney resources for
Speaker 1: other kinds of violations of the law. But it seems
Speaker 1: like is there some sort of I don't not wanting you,
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't want to get into this,
Speaker 1: I understand, but it seems like there's some attitudes among
Speaker 1: Catholic involved some persons involved, whether it's bishops or individuals
Speaker 1: or individual local Catholic charity entities, that are a bit
Speaker 1: more in favor of a sort of almost open borders approach,
Speaker 1: that any kind of immigration enforcement is bad or wrongful
Speaker 1: almost you know, yes, prima facie, yes.
Speaker 2: Well, it's certainly not my approach, and it's not in
Speaker 2: a sense of the official approach of the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: or California bishops either. Maybe individual exceptions to that, although
Speaker 2: I haven't heard them, at least not yet, not up
Speaker 2: to this state.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, well, all right, I want to move on
Speaker 1: then to sort of some macro questions. You know, you
Speaker 1: had mentioned, you know, you're I've because you've mentioned this
Speaker 1: thing about you know, we're not vetting people who come
Speaker 1: into church. Catholic charity is not vetting people who are
Speaker 1: just asking for help. I've sort of experienced this myself
Speaker 1: with our sort of the micro problems and the macro
Speaker 1: problems with our clinic that we started out a right
Speaker 1: to life we've when we first started, we had this
Speaker 1: problem of you know, some women who were here unlawfully
Speaker 1: with their immigration status wasn't regularized. We're afraid of applying
Speaker 1: for medical and basically there was limitations on medical eligibility.
Speaker 3: Well that got.
Speaker 1: Changed in the last few years. Now everyone's eligible for
Speaker 1: medical regardless of immigration status. And on the one hand
Speaker 1: of the perspective of well, I'm just here to help
Speaker 1: I want to help people, like that's good on the
Speaker 1: macro level, though, I'm sort of like, well, is.
Speaker 3: This necessarily a good policy?
Speaker 1: Like do we should we actually be incentivizing people to
Speaker 1: come here with generous social wealth, knowing that if you
Speaker 1: come here, even if you come here legally, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have all these generous social welfare programs.
Speaker 3: And I feel like.
Speaker 1: That's a big tension dynamic that maybe the church is
Speaker 1: recognizing or could be recognizing that here's this individual in
Speaker 1: front of us in need. We want to help them,
Speaker 1: we want and maybe we want the government to help them.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, is that having a bad
Speaker 1: macro effect? Are there dynamics like that that you've sort
Speaker 1: of seen or thought about?
Speaker 2: Well, I think on the macro level, the societal level
Speaker 2: and international level, the incentive is there all the time,
Speaker 2: and who wouldn't want to come to this great country
Speaker 2: of ours to improve their life? But then there's the
Speaker 2: other macro issue, and we've talked a little bit about
Speaker 2: it already.
Speaker 1: Well, basically my thought is it's almost unfair to be
Speaker 1: placing at the feet of say the Catholic Church or
Speaker 1: of charitable organizations like you just want more illegal immigrants here.
Speaker 3: You are just doing all this stuff for immigrants, whether.
Speaker 1: That's the perception of Catholic charities helping out immigrate, whatever,
Speaker 1: that's all you care about.
Speaker 3: It shouldn't. It's not our fault in a sense that
Speaker 3: our work of helping people who are poor is downstream
Speaker 3: of public policy decisions over which we don't have ultimate responsibilities,
Speaker 3: you know. And so we're presented with these problems of
Speaker 3: people who are poor who need help, and we're going
Speaker 3: to help them. And you know, would we prefer a
Speaker 3: better legal set up, better world, of course, But.
Speaker 1: I think the Catholic Church is taking a bit more
Speaker 1: crap over this than it deserves.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and it's what do you do with the
Speaker 2: Obria clinic? As you just stated a minute ago, there
Speaker 2: are these macro concerns that bother us, that tweak our
Speaker 2: own sense of justice and what's right and fair. And
Speaker 2: then there's the pregnant woman in front of us. That
Speaker 2: needs some care, the hungry person that walks through the
Speaker 2: doors of Catholic charities and maybe needs some clothing too.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, we're attentive to the person in front
Speaker 2: of us as the brother and sister in Christ and
Speaker 2: the one in need, and we we are and we must,
Speaker 2: all of us, you know, pursue really good immigration policies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, all right, Well, Bishop Brennan, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciate having you on the show, and you know,
Speaker 1: I appreciate your advocacy always for those in need, whether
Speaker 1: it's you know, whether it's immigrant communities or the.
Speaker 3: Defensive life issue and all those things. So anyway, God blessed,
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, John.
Speaker 3: All Right, we'll be back with more on the John
Speaker 3: Girardi Show.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about California's sanctuary state law and
Speaker 1: more comments by Mayor dire regarding immigration enforcement, immigration raids,
Speaker 1: et cetera. So I had kind of put Jerry Dyer
Speaker 1: a little on blast on the show. Dier was talking
Speaker 1: about basically how now City of Fresno will absolutely not
Speaker 1: cooperate with federal immigration authorities, absolutely not, and that we
Speaker 1: need to maintain you know, we need to maintain good
Speaker 1: relations with the immigrant community, and our law enforcement will
Speaker 1: have no relation, no relation to a person's immigration status.
Speaker 1: And I was trying to figure out why he was
Speaker 1: being so forceful this way. On the one hand, I mean,
Speaker 1: there are some limitations under California state law for what
Speaker 1: local police can do as far as cooperation with federal
Speaker 1: immigration authorities. I recognize that the Fresno PD is not
Speaker 1: just a free floating actor. It is subject to California
Speaker 1: state laws. State laws that are, you know, I think unwise.
Speaker 1: I don't see why we should have any limitation on
Speaker 1: local police cooperating with federal immigration authorities. You know, if
Speaker 1: they've they're arresting someone for crimes and the person's not
Speaker 1: in the country lawfully, I think it makes complete sense
Speaker 1: for local law enforcement to let ice know, hey, we
Speaker 1: got one and because you're specifically talking about people that
Speaker 1: the police are arresting. So I don't understand why Dyer
Speaker 1: would take the approach that that is bad, but he
Speaker 1: genuinely seems to be. He's like, we are not going
Speaker 1: to do that because, according to Dyer, we want the
Speaker 1: immigrant community to feel comfortable reporting crimes, which I guess
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why that is so much motivating him
Speaker 1: on the micro level. Maybe this is at the level
Speaker 1: of okay, well, it kind of makes police his job
Speaker 1: easier if you know, people are more willing to report
Speaker 1: crimes because they're not afraid of being picked up by
Speaker 1: immigration authorities. At the same time, maybe you're policing overall
Speaker 1: will be better if you could just get the criminals
Speaker 1: out of the country.
Speaker 3: After you arrest them.
Speaker 1: So it leads me to want to look into like
Speaker 1: what is California sanctuary state law? Actually, what is actually
Speaker 1: what are the parameters of what law enforcement is supposed
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 3: And you know, Dyer.
Speaker 1: Made more comments on this point yesterday January twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: So Dyer spoke yesterday at the Fresno Area Hispanic Federation.
Speaker 1: They had a breakfast event excuse me, Fresnoe Area Hispanic Foundation.
Speaker 1: He spoke for their event they had at Fort Washington,
Speaker 1: and during the address he talked about a couple of
Speaker 1: different things. He talked about the search for a new
Speaker 1: police chief. Apparently we only have three applicants. We know
Speaker 1: that Mindy Casto is one of the applicants, who's the
Speaker 1: current interim police chief. She was picked to kind of
Speaker 1: be the placeholder after Paco Balderama left in disgrace, and
Speaker 1: he was sort of saying, how you know that this
Speaker 1: is not a very you know, fewer and fewer people
Speaker 1: want to apply for police chief jobs anymore, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But then he talked about immigration rates and some immigration
Speaker 1: enforcement issues. Here's the write up on this from GV wire.
Speaker 1: Dyer answered a question from the audience about why Fresno
Speaker 1: police will not conduct or help with federal immigration rates. Now,
Speaker 1: I guess from my perspective, I guess I wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: anticipate Presno police conducting immigration raids. I would guess it
Speaker 1: would be more at the level of cooperating, you know,
Speaker 1: letting ice know about problem certainly about problematic criminals.
Speaker 3: I don't know that any of.
Speaker 1: Us on the right are like expecting, yes, the Fresno
Speaker 1: Police will be the immigration enforcement and well, no, I
Speaker 1: don't know that that's necessarily their cup of tea. I
Speaker 1: think what we would like is if Fresno PD is
Speaker 1: picking up someone who's not in the country legally, let
Speaker 1: ice know, let the Border Patrol know. I think that
Speaker 1: would be our preference, all of us on the right.
Speaker 1: I recognize that there are limitations on that from California law,
Speaker 1: that those are the policies we dislike, and I guess
Speaker 1: I find it bizarre that DIYer is basically taking this
Speaker 1: posture of yes, California law is great on this topic,
Speaker 1: Dyer said. Here's Dyer's answer to this, as reported by
Speaker 1: GV where he does not want anyone to live in
Speaker 1: fear or live in the shadows. Why wouldn't we want
Speaker 1: someone to live in fear. I mean, let me just
Speaker 1: remind folks entering the country unlawfully, So unlawful entry where
Speaker 1: you either cross the border illegally or you make false
Speaker 1: representations in order to get yourself over the border is
Speaker 1: the first time you do, it's a misdemeanor punishable by
Speaker 1: six months. The second time you do it is a felony.
Speaker 1: Overstaying a visa doesn't carry criminal punishments with it, as
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, I've tried to review the
Speaker 1: law on this, it does have those civil remedies and penalties,
Speaker 1: like with your rear end not being able to come
Speaker 1: back into the country for a really really long time,
Speaker 1: not being able to reapply for a visa for another
Speaker 1: three years or ten years, you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: being subject to other GUIDs of penalties like deportation. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to live in fear of the shadows.
Speaker 1: Why what I mean, if someone has done a bad thing,
Speaker 1: maybe it's okay for them to live in fear a
Speaker 1: little bit like if you've done a bad thing, if
Speaker 1: you've broken American immigration law. I you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want people to live fearful, sad, highly distressed lives. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, if you've broken American immigration law,
Speaker 1: that's kind of on Youdyre reiterated his policy that the
Speaker 1: city police or other staff will not inquire about anyone's
Speaker 1: immigration status. He admits his stance has led to criticism
Speaker 1: and anger from some supporters. I'm not pulling police officers
Speaker 1: from our neighborhoods keeping people safe to go out and
Speaker 1: deport farm workers. I'm just not going to do that,
Speaker 1: Dyer said, to a round of applause from one hundred
Speaker 1: plus people at the event. Okay, this is a red hair.
Speaker 1: This is such a BS argument.
Speaker 3: This is the straw man. That's what I was looking for.
Speaker 3: This is a straw man.
Speaker 1: Nobody on the right in Fresno is asking Jerry Dyer
Speaker 1: to send Fresno police to go round up farm workers.
Speaker 3: That's not what we're saying.
Speaker 1: What we would expect is dire to first of all,
Speaker 1: push up against the limits of the California sanctuary state law,
Speaker 1: which I am looking at right here.
Speaker 3: Got some details about it.
Speaker 1: So, California sanctuary state law is known as the California
Speaker 1: Values Act. And basically what the California Values Act says
Speaker 1: what the are states so called sanctuary state law says,
Speaker 1: and this was passed in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: I believe it basically says that.
Speaker 1: Police cannot tell immigration authorities about an inmate's upcoming release.
Speaker 3: Basically, the.
Speaker 1: Local officials cannot inform ice about an inmate's upcoming release
Speaker 1: on the grounds of his immigration status. Okay, However, there
Speaker 1: are exceptions for persons who have been convicted of a
Speaker 1: serious crime or felony such as murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery, arson.
Speaker 1: So I guess you know Fresno PDE and the Presdo Sheriffs. Now, No,
Speaker 1: Dyer is not overseeing the Presno sheriffs. And I'd like
Speaker 1: to talk with the Sheriff's apartment about this, about their
Speaker 1: view of this. Because the Fresno sheriffs actually do run
Speaker 1: Fresno County jails, which do at times house people who've
Speaker 1: been convicted of felonies, what we would expect is Fresno
Speaker 1: police to push up against the limits of this law.
Speaker 1: So basically California sanctuary state law. It's not a total
Speaker 1: sanctuary state. It's not that law enforcement can't tell ice
Speaker 1: about anything. It says basically, if someone has committed a
Speaker 1: serious felony, then you can tip ice off to their
Speaker 1: impending release.
Speaker 3: And what is a serious felony?
Speaker 1: Okay, So within California law, there's this weird designation known
Speaker 1: as serious felonies, and you have a misdemeanor. The traditional
Speaker 1: American and British legal distinction between a misdemeanor and a
Speaker 1: felony is a felony is a crime punished by a
Speaker 1: year or more in jail. A misdemeanor is a crime
Speaker 1: punishable by less than a year in jail.
Speaker 3: So California has this other.
Speaker 1: Designation that it's used in various areas of law for
Speaker 1: serious felony. This was something that State Senator Shannon Grove
Speaker 1: was combating. I think this was about two years ago.
Speaker 1: Senator Grove was able to get legislation passed in the
Speaker 1: California state legislature to designate sex trafficking of a minor
Speaker 1: as a serious felony, which steps up enforcement issues for
Speaker 1: purposes of things like three strikes law and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Kind of was crazy that sex trafficking of a miner
Speaker 1: was not already considered a serious felony, but there we were.
Speaker 1: So it's not all felonies, but for serious felonies at
Speaker 1: the very least, police sheriffs, et cetera can tip off
Speaker 1: immigration with the and I guess that's the you know,
Speaker 1: that's the rub. There's nothing from Mayor Dyer to say that, look,
Speaker 1: we think it would be a good thing for violent
Speaker 1: criminals for us with Fresno PD to say, hey, like
Speaker 1: you should let them know, Like Presno PD should let
Speaker 1: people know if we've got serious felons about to be released,
Speaker 1: that's something we should tip off immigration authorities. These are
Speaker 1: the parameters of what California sanctuary state law requires of us.
Speaker 1: We will go up to the limits of that. Or
Speaker 1: he could say, hey, this is what California's sanctuary state
Speaker 1: law requires. We aren't even able to do X Y
Speaker 1: and Z. But instead Dier has framed this says, no,
Speaker 1: it's a positive good that we just not concern ourselves
Speaker 1: with anyone's immigration status whatsoever. And he sets up this
Speaker 1: straw man of we're not gonna use Fresno police to
Speaker 1: round up farm workers. No one's asking Fresno police to
Speaker 1: round it farm workers. No nobody on the phar nobody
Speaker 1: on the right is demanding.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's some super right wing guys who are like, yes,
Speaker 1: Fresno police should be arresting any farm worker who's here illegally.
Speaker 1: The expectation, I think from all of us on the
Speaker 1: right would be, hey, if Presne police is picking up guys,
Speaker 1: gang members, whatever, guys who are clearly doing bad things,
Speaker 1: up to no good and can see that they are
Speaker 1: here in the country illegally, it would be really nice
Speaker 1: if they would just tell ICE about it and let
Speaker 1: Ice deal with them, let Border patrol deal with them. Now,
Speaker 1: I recognize Fresno police might not be able to do
Speaker 1: that within the parameters of California law, and local police
Speaker 1: are creatures of state law. They don't have autonomy from
Speaker 1: state government the way that like state governments have autonomy
Speaker 1: from the autonomy from the FEDS. Local governments don't have
Speaker 1: that autonomy from the state. They're creatures of state government.
Speaker 1: They have to follow state law. So I recognize if
Speaker 1: Dyree wants to say, look, this is what we're this
Speaker 1: is what we are.
Speaker 3: Into doing under state law.
Speaker 1: But to say that that is a positive good, it's
Speaker 1: nuts when we return which way, for Jerry Dyer, what
Speaker 1: is he at this point? Next on the John Grardy Show,
Speaker 1: what is Jerry Dyer? At this point? He ran as
Speaker 1: a Republican? He seems to have the broader Fresno Christian
Speaker 1: community still somewhat bamboozled as well. I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: Christian and I'm not gonna I'm probably being too harsh.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to deny anything about the sincerity of
Speaker 1: his Christian convictions and how the working of Christ in
Speaker 1: his life has been, you know, life changing. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to dispute that. But the fact remains he completely
Speaker 1: flip flopped on gay marriage and the whole Pride Flag thing,
Speaker 1: all of that, and he continues to have this kind
Speaker 1: of local government. I need to get funding mindset that
Speaker 1: sort of keeps expressing itself in betrayals of one conservative
Speaker 1: ideal after another. I guess I don't know how he
Speaker 1: is meaningfully a Republican or a conservative anymore. And I
Speaker 1: think a lot more people are waking up to that.
Speaker 3: That'll do it. John Girardi Show, See you next time
Speaker 3: on Power Talk.