WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.160 Tonight, we're gonna be speaking with doctor Michael Heiser. Tonight's 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.879 show is entitled The Divine Counsel of the Elohem, dealing 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.480 with the scriptures and dealing with a lot of ancient 4 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.720 Holy books. We hear the word elohean tossed to and fro. 5 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:20.000 A lot of people have different interpretations about what that means. Tonight, 6 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.800 we're gonna go straight to the scriptures and straight to 7 00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:27.280 the text. Doctor Michael Heiser is a He has a 8 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.879 pH d in ancient Semitic languages, and we're gonna be 9 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.520 uncovering some truths tonight because many people have a lot 10 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:36.880 of different things to say. There's a lot of half 11 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.240 truths in this field. There's a lot of partial truths, 12 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:43.840 and you know, I think tonight we're gonna be getting 13 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.000 into some deep information and a lot of people are listening. 14 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.439 A lot of people have questions, so we're gonna be 15 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:52.039 taking calls a little bit later. If you have any 16 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.200 questions or comments for doctor Michael Heiser, Tonight is your 17 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:58.399 chance to ask those questions. If you're listening via YouTube. 18 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.000 I appreciate everybody holding me down over there and the 19 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:04.920 show and everybody's sharing it on Facebook. It means so much. 20 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.680 You guys motivate me to keep doing this without further ado. 21 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.879 We're gonna welcome onto the show doctor Michael Heizer. 22 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:13.799 Are you there, I'm here, Thank you. 23 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:15.640 How's it going, brother? 24 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.359 Very good? Thanks for having me on the show. 25 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:22.519 Pleasure Man. Been looking to speak with you for some 26 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.120 time now. I've been following your work for the last 27 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.599 couple of years and pretty amazed, pretty impressed with a 28 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:31.319 lot of you work with breaking down the languages. You know, 29 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:32.959 I can admit some of it. It's a little bit 30 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:34.640 deep for me. Some of it is a little bit 31 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.799 over my head, but I do understand the concepts, and 32 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.319 tonight we want to kind of take some of the 33 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:43.640 deep understandings and kind of break those down in a 34 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:47.519 layman's term where someone who is just hearing these terms 35 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.519 that we can just have a discussion where everybody can 36 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:52.079 understand that. Is that fine tonight? 37 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.519 Oh yeah, yeah, I'll try not to be boring. I'll 38 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:56.159 do my best. 39 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:58.480 Do you get that a lot or is that just me? 40 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.480 Well, you know, some of this stuff is it's tedious, 41 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.800 you know, it's detailed. Yeah, but it's encouraging to hear 42 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:13.360 you say that. The concepts are graspable, and that's that's 43 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.479 what we shoot for. So we'll shoot for that tonight. 44 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:18.719 I think when it comes to the Bible and it 45 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:22.199 comes to you know, mainstream Christianity today, some of the 46 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:25.919 work that you bring to the table, it's somewhat revolutionary 47 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:30.479 to the mindset of Christianity. What types of feedback have 48 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.919 you been getting from the mainstream church? I mean, do 49 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.400 they look at you sideways? Do they look at you 50 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.680 as the heretic? What's some of the feedback you've been 51 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.199 getting by presenting some of your work. 52 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:45.639 Well, I actually get that whole spectrum. It's a good question. 53 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:50.879 I mean probably h you know, the first time people 54 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:52.599 hear this sort of thing, they look at you like 55 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.879 you got two heads. So I'm used to that. But 56 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:59.400 there will also be you know, people that are patient 57 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:02.840 and they'll follow you know, they they won't just sort 58 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:05.840 of write you off after the first ten minutes, you know, 59 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:08.680 and then they'll follow along, and then you know, it 60 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:11.599 becomes a lot clearer and they can see, you know, 61 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.240 why it's important to be you know, precise in your 62 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:17.599 terminology and what's at stake, and and you know, really 63 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:20.719 how it's sort of in a lot of ways. It 64 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:26.520 doesn't change uh familiar doctrine, but uh it it really 65 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.360 makes it a lot richer. There, there's it brings a 66 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:33.960 cohesion to not only both Testaments, but things that are 67 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.879 sort of scattered around the Old Testament that are kind 68 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.000 of odd. But you know, it helps marry some of 69 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:43.080 those things together in a coherent way. But you know, 70 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.000 there there are some people out there that think I'm 71 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:46.879 a heretic too, so we you know, we have to 72 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.159 give them, give them some kudos. 73 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:52.960 Yeah, yeah, they're going to give you. Not if yeah, 74 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:54.560 if not on the show, they're going to get it 75 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:57.039 on the message boards and the blogs and the YouTube 76 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:58.759 comments and they're out. 77 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:01.919 They're out. I mean, they're defending the faith as they 78 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.080 understand it, and so I'm sympathetic to that. But you know, 79 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.840 they need to realize that, you know, you need to 80 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.159 get your you need to get your theology not from 81 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.960 the English Bible. You need to be able to penetrate 82 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.439 that and look at scripture for what it says and 83 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.720 what it is and realize that the Bible wasn't given 84 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:26.120 to us in English and there's something behind what they're 85 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:28.160 looking at in the text, and it can be really 86 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:33.839 helpful if we just resist thinking of the context of 87 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.959 the Bible as the twenty first century. You know, it's 88 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.920 not unless you're going back to the context of the 89 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.360 people who wrote it. Any context you bring to it, 90 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.079 whether it's the Reformation or the Catholic Church, or Evangelicalism 91 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:53.199 or Protestantism, those are all alien contexts to the Bible. 92 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:55.920 They are not the Biblical context. And that's the hurdle, 93 00:04:56.360 --> 00:04:58.600 the first hurdle that people sort of have to get over. 94 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.040 I think that's one of the hardest ones too, is 95 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.120 to it is, you know, is to actually read the 96 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.079 scriptures and think that it's you know, speaking about you 97 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.720 or written for you, and not understand that this was 98 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.879 written to a people and four people who lived a 99 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.959 very long time ago, as far as the prophecies and 100 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.879 things like that. So that's what I want to get 101 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:23.240 into tonight. I guess the first place we can start 102 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:25.079 off is kind of a place where a lot of 103 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.879 people start off in this subject is dealing with the 104 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.279 word God in the Book of Genesis. What is that word? 105 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:34.000 Because we hear that the word God is the word elohem, 106 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:37.120 and it's actually plural and means more than one can 107 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.319 you give us a breakdown on your understanding on that 108 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.079 which you found? 109 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:46.600 Sure. Eloheim is a very common word in the Hebrew Bible. 110 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:52.040 It's a common noun. You know, it means God, divine 111 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.720 being generally, but it's used as a proper name a 112 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.879 lot by the Biblical writers, and so it becomes a 113 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.120 specific name for the deity, the divine being, the God 114 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:08.680 of Israel. But Eloheim is kind of like the word well, 115 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.600 let me, let me just back up a second. Eloheim 116 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:16.120 is spelled is shaped plural. The fancy word for that 117 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:20.839 is morphology. Words have shapes. They there as a way 118 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.680 that they are formed. If I take the word form 119 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:26.959 fo r m and I add an S to it, 120 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:31.160 I have changed its shape. I have changed its morphology. 121 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.759 And depending on the context the word fo r ms, 122 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:38.319 is that a noun like you're out on a job 123 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.879 site pouring concrete into forms or filling out forms. Is 124 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:45.480 it a noun or is it a verb? You know, 125 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:50.519 this forms that you don't know until you put those 126 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:52.879 letters that make up that word, until you put that 127 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:55.759 word in a sentence. You have to give it some context. 128 00:06:56.279 --> 00:06:59.600 And eloheim is like that. So even though it's shaped plural, 129 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:04.560 it can mean, and often does, and most often does 130 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.000 it actually speaks of a singular entity. It's kind of 131 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.360 like the word deer d e e r in English. 132 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.720 You know, if I just looked at you, Derek and 133 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.600 said deer, and I said, you know, followed that with 134 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:22.480 a question, am I talking about one or more than one? 135 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.319 But we have no way to answer the question because 136 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.720 it's just d e e r. I'd have to put 137 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.279 it in a sentence for you. And then you know, 138 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:37.279 if I if I said, you know, the deer is 139 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:40.360 in the field, you know that d e e r 140 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:43.240 is speaking of only one because of the verb is 141 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.639 yeah Eloheme's kind of like the word deer. I mean, 142 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.160 you have to put it into a sentence for you 143 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:52.040 to know what it means. And so even though it's 144 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:57.160 spelled plural, it can mean singular and frankly, most of 145 00:07:57.199 --> 00:08:00.839 the time that it's used in the Hebrew Bible it 146 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.720 refers to the singular God of Israel. Just in case 147 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:07.199 people doubt that. And if your listeners, if they go 148 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:12.720 to my website, it's just dr MSH dot com and 149 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:14.720 then at the top they click on the link for 150 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:18.720 Zechariah Sitchin. That's my sition is wrong dot com site, 151 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.480 and once they're there, if they go to the Elohem tab, 152 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:27.879 I actually have PDF files of the places where elohem 153 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.200 is matched with a singular verb for example, or a 154 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:34.960 plural verb to show how it's distinguished. So it's not 155 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.320 very exciting, but you know, I want people to know 156 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:39.559 I'm not making it up either. 157 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.080 If anybody pulls out they're strongs accordance, that actually will 158 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.360 tell you as well in there, I think I guess 159 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:47.320 what we can move on now to is the fact 160 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.159 that once we understand that the word eloheim is a 161 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.519 plural term or can be a plural term and a 162 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:56.559 name as well, But where does that fit into the Bible? 163 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:59.120 Where does that fit into the context there? 164 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.720 Yeah, every occurrence of Eloheim you have to look at 165 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.799 its context, you know what it tells you. And in 166 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:10.759 Genesis one one, for example, you know we have Eloheim, 167 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:14.600 you know, creating the heavens and the earth. You know, 168 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:19.960 bear Ashet barra Elohem, and then so on and so forth. Well, 169 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:24.279 the verb that it goes with Barrah to create is 170 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.720 grammatically singular for people who know Hebrew, it's just a 171 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:32.320 cal form that's third masculine singular. That tells you right 172 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:37.600 away that I need to take the word eloheim in 173 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.919 terms of a singular meaning. So that's so that I 174 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.679 have subject verb agreement. I mean, that's that's just the 175 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:47.080 way a language works. That's with my illustration with deer, 176 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:50.919 it's an illustration of subject verb agreement. The deer is 177 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:53.879 in the field. The deer are in the field, and 178 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:59.440 the grammar that's the context, the linguistic context. The grammatical 179 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:02.919 context tells you how to understand the word. And so 180 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:08.080 in the Hebrew Bible, this isn't difficult. You know, there 181 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:10.519 are very few places where there could be ambiguity. You 182 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:14.120 could probably count them on one hand with respect to 183 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.559 the word elohem. So most of the time it just 184 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.000 point blank tells you if you can get to the grammar, 185 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:22.200 and people can get to the grammar if they know Hebrew, 186 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:25.360 and if they have something like the company I work for, 187 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.360 Logos creates called a reverse in or linear or good 188 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:34.000 a good website that has morphological grammatical information attached to 189 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:36.879 each word. You'll be able to tell whether in this 190 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.039 case the verb is singular or not, and then you 191 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.000 know you know how to take lohem. It just takes 192 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:43.600 a little work. You have to kind of know what 193 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:44.360 you're looking for. 194 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.840 So we have Genesis chapter one, verse twenty six. This 195 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:51.759 is kind of a popular one, and it reads, and 196 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.360 God said, let us make man in our image after 197 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:00.320 our likeness. Okay, so like what you were saying, and 198 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.919 let us this this is actually meaning more than one. 199 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.360 I know. The Christian doctrine says that this is the 200 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.759 Father's Son in the Holy Spirit speaking. That's what they 201 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.120 try to say. According to your findings, Is this a 202 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:15.960 you know, a council of angels who are overcreating mankind 203 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.440 or or is this the Supreme God speaking alone to 204 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:22.879 the Father's son in the Holy Spirit. 205 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.480 Well, I would I would offer actually something different. Okay, 206 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.759 aside from let's let's just walk through the verses here 207 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.159 and if somebody again is on a website where they 208 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:37.120 can get to the word level information, they can follow 209 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:42.399 along here. But verse twenty six we have Eloheim said, well, 210 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:45.440 let's look at the words said. Is it grammatically singular 211 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.159 or plural? It's singular biomer against third masculine singular. So 212 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:52.159 we have the singular God saying, and then here's what 213 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:57.240 he says, let us make humankind in our image so 214 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.960 we have a singular speaker. That's the God of the Bible, 215 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:05.080 the God of Israel, singular speaker announcing to a group, Hey, 216 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:10.200 let's do something. Let us make humankind in our image. 217 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.320 So he's speaking to a group, and the question is, well, 218 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.080 who's in the group, And you're right, you know, a 219 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.360 lot of Christians will take this as a reference to 220 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.000 the Trinity, as though God is having a conversation with 221 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:26.879 himself or the members of the Trinity. That could that 222 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:31.000 could be workable here. But the problem with it is 223 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.480 is if you take other scenes in the Bible where 224 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.000 God is, you know, in his heavenly throne or in 225 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:40.759 some other his divine abode in heaven, and he's speaking 226 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.559 to a group of Elohim, for instance Psalm eighty two, 227 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.799 you can't have the Trinity there because he's castigating the 228 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.720 members of the heavenly host. The Divine council is the 229 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:57.320 language that Psalmaty two uses. He's you know, reaming them 230 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.879 out for being corrupt. Well, you know, obviously that can't 231 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:04.679 be a Trinitarian context unless you want really terrible Christian 232 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:07.440 theology there, you know, where you have the other members 233 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:09.960 of the Trinity being sentenced to death. You're going to 234 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:14.200 die like men. You're corrupt. You can't have that. And 235 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.840 so you know you have this tension already. I think 236 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.320 it's a lot easier, and frankly, it's in complete agreement 237 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:26.480 with other parallels, other parallel texts to have. In Genesis 238 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:31.240 one twenty six, God announcing to his heavenly host that hey, 239 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:33.879 we're going to do this. We're going to create humankind 240 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.720 in our image. And we can talk about the image 241 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.799 if you want to. The image is not an attribute 242 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:42.720 that we have. The image is really a status or 243 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:45.559 a role that we have. And we have a role 244 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.840 in God's planet and the divine beings of the heavenly host, 245 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.399 the quote unquote angelic beings, they have a role to 246 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:54.840 play in their sphere of authority. That's why it's plural there. 247 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:56.840 But you keep going through the verse when you get 248 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.759 to the creation part, you know, let us create human 249 00:13:59.799 --> 00:14:02.120 kind in our image after our likeness, so on and 250 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.240 so forth. When you get to verse twenty seven, it 251 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:09.879 says and God eloheim created human kind. Well, there's another 252 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:14.000 verb created. Is it plural or singular? Again, it's a singular, 253 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:18.720 So you only have one being the creator Okay, you 254 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.480 only have one creator in Genesis one, twenty six and 255 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.000 twenty seven, and that is the singular God of the Bible. 256 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.240 And if you even go further in verse twenty seven, 257 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:34.759 so God created humankind in his image there it singular 258 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.000 or as his image and as his likeness. In his likeness, 259 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.080 God created again Eloheim's singular verb Brah created him male 260 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.039 and female, so on and so forth. So you have 261 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:48.600 really both things going on, and you have more or 262 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:50.600 less have to pick your way through the two verses 263 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:54.759 to get the picture. God's announcing his intent, but he's 264 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:58.080 the only one that's carrying out his own intent. It's 265 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:00.879 like it'd be like if I said, U illustration a lot. 266 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.120 If I if I'm at work and I walk into 267 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.279 a room and I say, hey, let's get pizza. Okay, 268 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.000 I'm the singular speaker. There's only one of me. I'm 269 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:12.480 announcing it to a group, and then we all get 270 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.240 in the car. We go down to the pizza place. 271 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.399 But I order the pizza and I pay for it. Okay, 272 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:22.320 I'm this single actor. But then the crowd with me, 273 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.639 you know, get some benefit out of that. They participate, 274 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.159 but only in sort of a peripheral secondary way. They're 275 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.360 they're observing. In that case, they're eating with me. But 276 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.919 you have the same thing going on in Genesis one 277 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:36.360 twenty six and twenty seven. 278 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.480 So at this point guenness is one twenty six we 279 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:47.120 see God the Creator singular. He spoke, he said, let 280 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:49.919 us make man in our image. So who is the 281 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.600 us and who is the hour is? Though? Are those 282 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.159 what we call the elohem? Are those the the other 283 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.600 gods that he set up to rule as well and 284 00:15:58.679 --> 00:15:59.360 to help? 285 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.000 Yeah, I would, I would say there they are the 286 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.679 other members of the heavenly entourage or the heavenly host. 287 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.360 This this actually really requires us to get to get 288 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:13.399 into the term itself elohem so that people can can 289 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:17.320 kind of parse this. All right, I want I want 290 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:21.679 your your listeners to think about this, the word elohem. 291 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.840 And again, if if they go up to either my 292 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:28.840 site w w W the Divine Council d I V 293 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.279 I N E Council c O U N C I 294 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.000 L dot com, or they can go to d R 295 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.360 M s H dot com and just find the link there. 296 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.600 If they go up there, they'll what I'm gonna say, 297 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.120 they can read. So if anybody taken notes or can't follow, 298 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:50.879 just don't panic. So eloheim is actually used of four 299 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.440 or five different things in the Bible. That's just that's 300 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.759 that's important. Point number one. The Biblical writer uses the 301 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:04.519 word elohem to describe five different entities, five different things. 302 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.400 One is the God of Israel, that's the obvious one. 303 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.039 Then there are the heavenly hosts, the members of the 304 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.880 spiritual world like in Psalmity two, the plural eloheim, other 305 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:21.680 divine beings that are in you know, God's presence with him. 306 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.680 Then you have in Deuteronomy thirty two seventeen, you have 307 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.960 the shadeem and that's usually translated demons. It actually it's 308 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.240 probably closer to guardian spirits or something like that. You 309 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:39.440 have them called Elohim in that verse Deuteronomy thirty two seventeen. 310 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.039 Depending on how you understand Genesis thirty two the first 311 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:48.480 couple verses and what event that refers back to, you 312 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.759 could have angels referred to as Elohim. And then, lastly, 313 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.519 in First Samuel twenty eight thirteen, when the medium at 314 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:59.440 end or you know, is asked by Saul to bring 315 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.880 Samuel up and lo and behold it actually works, she 316 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.920 panics and says, I see an Elohim coming up out 317 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:10.599 of the earth. And then Saul asks, well, what does 318 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.920 he So he's only referring to one being, what does 319 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.880 he look like? And then she describes him, Oh, yep, 320 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.960 that's Samuel. Then they have a conversation and Samuel basically 321 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.759 gives him a message from God that more or less says, 322 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.079 your dynasty's done with your toast. So you have five 323 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.319 different things referred to as Elohem. Now here's the question. 324 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:36.279 Would the biblical writer understand that those five different things 325 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:41.279 are not equal in attributes? In other words, would the 326 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:45.279 biblical writer think that the spirit of a deceased person 327 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.119 is on the same level in terms of attributes as 328 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.000 the God of Israel, or that angels are on the 329 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.160 same level, or that shadeem or on the same level 330 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.400 as the God of Israel. Well, it's kind of obviously no, 331 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.960 because everywhere else in the Bible there's a clear distinction. 332 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:05.039 There are things that only the only God can do, 333 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.720 and there are things that God is that no other 334 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:12.720 entity is. So that tells you that to the biblical mind, 335 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:18.319 the biblical writer Elohem did not refer to a unique 336 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:22.880 set of attributes. But that's the problem because that's exactly 337 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.960 the way we use good when we look at look, 338 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:32.000 or write or say G O. D. We are so 339 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:37.799 used to thinking of Good as a unique, singular being 340 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:43.559 with attributes that no other being has, and so it's 341 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.920 hard for it would be hard for us to use 342 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.960 God of five different things and feel good about it 343 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.359 because we attach attributes significance to the term. But that 344 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.400 is not the way the biblical writer the Hebrew Bible 345 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:02.599 uses elohem. It does not refer to a set of attributes. 346 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:06.200 What it does refer to the reason that you have 347 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.960 five these things you know spoken of with the same 348 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:12.839 term with eloheim is eloheim is what I like to 349 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.440 call a place of residence termed. It doesn't tell you 350 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.839 what a thing is. It tells you where a thing belongs, 351 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:24.160 or where a thing is from where it lives. So 352 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:31.200 to speak, elohem are beings that by nature are disembodied, 353 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.640 and they inhabit this thing we call the spiritual world. 354 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.920 That's all it means. If I want to describe a 355 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:41.720 being that it does not, you know, belong to the 356 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:47.240 human realm. It's not enfleshed, and it's by nature disembodied. 357 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.720 It's not human, Okay, it's none of these things that 358 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:52.799 we are. If I want to use a word to 359 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:58.920 describe any being that fits that address, I would use Alohem. 360 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.960 That's what it is. Now when you're in the spiritual world, 361 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.720 you know, if we can imagine ourselves over there on 362 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.039 the other side, so to speak, in that world, there 363 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:15.559 is rank, there is hierarchy, there is differentiation and attributes. 364 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:17.640 That's why I like to say in the things that 365 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.920 I've written that Yahweh, the God of Israel, is an Alohem, 366 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.119 but no other Elohem is him. He is unique, he 367 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:30.680 is species unique among the aloheim. Think about our world. 368 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.640 We're all humans. But yet in the human world, while 369 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.680 we are all humans, there's lots of differences between us, 370 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:42.680 you know, there's differences in attributes, in skill sets, you know, 371 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.319 in really physical ability. We have differences all over the 372 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.519 place within the human population. But nevertheless, we are still 373 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:55.440 all human. That term defines the realm to which we belong, 374 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.279 the species to which we belong, and Alohem works that way. 375 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.519 But again, the problem is is we're so used to 376 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:08.200 thinking of Elohim and the way we think of as geo, 377 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:10.440 the way we think of good. You know, we assign 378 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.200 a set of attributes to it, and then people freak out, 379 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:16.440 you know, when I'm you know, in a church or 380 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.960 something or on the on the web or whatever, and say, look, 381 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.960 you know, you've got to do something with this. The 382 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.839 Biblical writers using loheem of four or five other things, 383 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.920 you know, and they're not all the same level of 384 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.079 the God of Israel, but they're all alohem. So you know, 385 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.759 if they're patient again to hear out the explanation of 386 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.000 what the term actually means, how the biblical writer actually 387 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:40.839 uses it, it's comprehensible. But as soon as you even 388 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.559 get to that point, it's, oh, you're a polytheist. You know, 389 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:45.880 you're a heretic, and blah blah, blah blah blah. You know, 390 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.799 and I'm again, I'm just used to it now, and 391 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:53.039 I you know, I'm just I'm tired of protecting people 392 00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:53.960 from their Bible. 393 00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:54.720 Yeah. 394 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:56.279 I'm just not going to do it anymore. 395 00:22:57.400 --> 00:22:59.240 Yeah, But I think it's pretty I think it's pretty 396 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.480 plain from what you've shown just those couple of scriptures. 397 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:05.400 I mean, we see Eloheim as a divine father. We 398 00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.799 see the word used when mentioning demonic spirits in a 399 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.519 sense devils, and we see the word used when you 400 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:13.599 when it's talking about spirits, and we see it when 401 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.839