WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:13.800 You know he like a dummy bit. It's the internet. 2 00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:17.359 You're busy. Let's do this for August first, twenty twenty four. 3 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.120 That's I was like, wait August, and then I couldn't 4 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.519 get first out for the next hour or so. Let 5 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.320 me help you sort through the world of gaming on 6 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.399 Game Mess Mornings Live with Me Jeff Grubb today. Oh no, 7 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.880 it's Agust. But first please join me and welcoming today's 8 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:36.960 co host the Game Mess Mornings. It's Jan to show everybody, Jan, 9 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:37.759 how are you doing. 10 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:41.560 I'm feeling great. Last time I was on Gay Mess 11 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:44.759 Mornings was a Monday, and I felt very discombobulated, not 12 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:51.759 weird and work at all. I have been looking forward 13 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:53.479 to taking a nap since then, and I have not 14 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.679 taken it taken a nap. So I'm gonna I'm gonna 15 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.200 go onto my schedule and put it on asana. I'm 16 00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:59.000 gonna take a nap. 17 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:01.200 That sounds good. Idea. You got to ye. If you 18 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.159 put in sona, you can do whatever, like as long 19 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:04.879 as it's in there, like people can't argue. 20 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:07.319 I'm gonna put on the game spot us on it 21 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.519 to snap, okay, stand back everyone, threat or anything. 22 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:15.200 It's just a declaration. It's it's a power move everyone. 23 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:18.799 It is commanding the universe to let you nap. Absolutely, 24 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:21.879 I'm proud of you. You should go take a nap. 25 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.680 You earned it. Absolutely Glad you're back though, you're We're 26 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.920 back in the swing of things over here. Uh. And 27 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.159 then immediately we got more stuff happening later this month. 28 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:32.680 It's just gonna kind of be non stop, so we'll 29 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.280 get out of the circa things once again as well. Uh. 30 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:39.000 But yeah, I'm feeling pretty good over here. I uh yeah. 31 00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:41.519 The Giant Bomb team is in high demand. 32 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:46.120 High demands travelers. Uh huh people. Uh, people are asking 33 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:50.159 for us by name. Yes, walk into a room and 34 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:51.959 no one really looks up, but you can feel the 35 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:53.519 vibe shift. You could feel it. 36 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.640 I'm convinced people don't know my name. But when I 37 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.560 also get addressed in an email, I'm like, oh, that's me. 38 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.920 Absolutely. When I show up and they have lighters, I'm like, 39 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:09.639 they got these from me, they knew I was coming. 40 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:14.159 That's only for you, grub, That's only for me. Absolutely. 41 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:17.439 I did check. Today's the first day you could check 42 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:19.319 to see how many hours you spent a Nintendo World 43 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.719 Championship any eth edition, because this switch is kind of 44 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:25.439 a weird bad system in some ways. And it's fifty 45 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.680 hours five zero. I've spent fifty hours in that game 46 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.280 came out. That's like twenty five hours a week or 47 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.639 something like that. Yeah, I like that game. I like 48 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.879 it quite a bit. By the time I was done 49 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:40.280 with astros like eight speed run challenges, I had spent 50 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.159 like eighty or ninety hours. I think that shows the 51 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.439 power of leader boards. Had this game had leaderboards, that 52 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.159 number would be higher, without a doubt, Mummy, Yes, oh boy, 53 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.759 I'm a broken toilet of a man. That's right, our wolves, 54 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:56.319 I don't know. Let's just get into this one, everybody. 55 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.080 Let's just do this and explain what we do here 56 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:00.759 most weekdays. I Jeff Grubb. It will help piece your 57 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:03.400 gaming life back together. That includes breaking news and maybe 58 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:07.120 even some of our own original reporting. For all these topics, 59 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:08.919 I'll get the input of a bona fide expert who 60 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:11.240 will make me look smart. If you are watching live 61 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:13.960 on twitch welcome, you can always listen to the show 62 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.680 later on podcast feeds by searching for game Mes Mornings, 63 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:20.039 or find the RSS on giant bomb dot com. You 64 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.960 can also catch the show later with chapters and timestamps 65 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:27.120 on YouTube. Hello YouTube, All right, we have a lot 66 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:29.120 to get into, so let's start the morning mess with 67 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.960 Bungee announces mass layoffs less than two months after Destiny 68 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:35.360 to the Final Shapes launch. This comes from Eddie mccuitt 69 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.919 game Spot. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, 70 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:39.599 but let's get into it and kind of try to 71 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.840 answer as many questions as we possibly can. But let's 72 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:46.000 recap first here from Eddie. Destiny developer Bungee has announced 73 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.159 a significant round of layoffs and what is just the 74 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:51.120 latest example of a major studio cutting hundreds of jobs. 75 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:53.680 The company also revealed a brand new game, but it 76 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:56.479 will no longer be developed internally and is shifting to 77 00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:59.960 a new internal studio at PlayStation. In a blog post, 78 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:03.000 Bungee executive Pete Parsons confirm the company as cutting about 79 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:05.960 seventeen percent of its workforce, or around two hundred and 80 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:08.599 twenty people. Late last year, Bungie had a round of 81 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.560 layoffs affecting more than one hundred people due to rising 82 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:14.520 costs of development and industry shifts, as well as enduring 83 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.000 economic conditions. It has become clear that we need to 84 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:20.600 make substantial changes to our cost structure, and folks development 85 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:24.639 efforts entirely on Destiny and Marathon a key one there. 86 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:26.959 Everybody will talk about that here in a second, the 87 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.920 executive said, layoffs are happening at every level of Bungie. 88 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.120 And if you go on Twitter and you see people 89 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:35.000 from Bunge's talking about getting laid off, it's from every 90 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.000 studio across the board. No one was spared. Basically, it's 91 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.240 that rough. And that's seventeen percent numbers. Gen Like, when 92 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:43.399 we talk about these layoffs throughout this year, it's been 93 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.279 five to eight percent. Bungee already had around a layoffs 94 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:50.720 last October, so to have another seventeen percent cut, they 95 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:53.839 are making deep cuts at Bungie. It is going to 96 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:58.120 be a completely different company after all is said and done. 97 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.759 But let's get into some of these details. Pete Parsons 98 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.600 was talking there because Pete Parsons is not leaving. That 99 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.839 is the CEO of Bungie, and to say he's disliked 100 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.399 seems like at this point a little bit of an understatement. 101 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.319 The response to him on Twitter from former Bungie employees, 102 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:23.120 people who had already left and people who were likely 103 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.319 laid off in the last round. They mostly hate this 104 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:28.519 guy and they blame him, and they think it's mostly 105 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.399 his fault. Do you think that a new Bungee can 106 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:35.279 emerge while still under Pete Parsons in any way wholeheartedly? 107 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:40.639 No, nothing with confidence or any sense of longevity to 108 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:44.240 the team. I would feel, you know, I think as 109 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:48.079 a fledgling new developer breaking into the scene, having Bungee 110 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:51.199 on your resume is going to be incredibly impressive. I 111 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.920 just don't know how long that sentence would be honestly 112 00:05:56.319 --> 00:05:59.399 under Pete Parsons, because you know, I feel like Destiny 113 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:04.399 too made him massive swing back into the audience's like 114 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.439 positive side and the good side. And only to hear 115 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:10.120 this immediate, not immediately, but like a couple of weeks 116 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:13.759 after that DLC dropped has got to be gutting. Especially 117 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.120 it's hard to be a Destiny fan on top of 118 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.600 staying on top of all the lore and whatever is 119 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:25.639 happening constantly in that game. Content lately far and few between, 120 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.160 especially substantial content that hits with majority of the audience 121 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:33.839 and brings any laps players back into Destiny. Have you 122 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:36.800 seen grub the I think I saw this posted by 123 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.959 some ex bungee folk. The car auctions I. 124 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.120 Saw, I saw a little bit of this. The number 125 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:46.319 I saw it was like potentially up to two point 126 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:49.920 three billion or millions. You'd be million dollars in classic 127 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:54.319 car auction wins just by Pete Parsons. 128 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:57.839 Just by Pete Parsons. Yes, Yeah, And if a CEO 129 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.839 is I don't know parsons other investments, if he has 130 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.600 any or his other projects, or is what his bank account, 131 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:09.040 But if a CEO is making that much money to 132 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.600 be participating in fancy used old car auctions, I think 133 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:18.600 the problem doesn't lie at the bottom line that he 134 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:23.120 is cutting and cutting lies at the top. And this 135 00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:25.399 is the pattern we've seen, like across the board with 136 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.120 majority of these layoffs right grub Like the people at 137 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:32.000 the top, the CEOs whatever, sweet people don't want to 138 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:38.759 take the accountability that any of anything underperforming or being 139 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.399 too costly is on their part. It's always the problem 140 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.120 is always the people that are actually making the games, 141 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:47.720 which does not make sense. 142 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.680 Yeah, especially in this case where you know a lot 143 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.079 of that money for Pete Parsons likely came from selling 144 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.360 to Sony in the first place, where you know he 145 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.680 had a huge steak in Bungee likely and was able 146 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:02.240 to get. I don't know. It would have surprised me 147 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.560 if his compensation alone was five hundred million dollars or 148 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:07.439 something like that. As part of that deal or something 149 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.160 like that could be that high. So he's got a 150 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:11.600 lot of money sitting around that he's going to spend 151 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.839 on and that stuff whatever. But when he made that deal, 152 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:18.959 he was making promises on behalf of all of Bungie 153 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.759 and put them in a situation that led to this. 154 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.920 This is all due to him being like, we can 155 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:29.959 meet these demands from Sony that we need to make 156 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:32.679 in order to maintain our independence, which was not just 157 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.039 important to him, it was important to ever win at Bungee. 158 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.799 That's why everyone kind of went along with it, because 159 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:38.960 they were going to be able to maintain their independence, 160 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.120 and the only way they wouldn't be able to do 161 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.600 that is if they had some sort of catastropticostrophic failure 162 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.480 or the numbers the initial numbers were too high, and frankly, 163 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:53.440 they just they promised too much. Because Destiny too was 164 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.759 in a situation where it can have success. It had success, 165 00:08:57.080 --> 00:09:01.279 Lightfall did pretty well, and then the final shit is 166 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.399 critically beloved. People thought this is the best Destiny two's 167 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.360 ever been. But if you look at the numbers, like 168 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:10.559 I put a chart here at the bottom of this 169 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:15.039 story jam from steam dB, which is you could see 170 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.519 that Lightfall came out in like what was that's around 171 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:22.159 early twenty twenty three, and the number of concurrent users 172 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:27.159 on Steam peaked and then we see just now at 173 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.320 this d mark here either the one the image you're 174 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:32.919 looking at jen is when the final shape came out, 175 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:37.039 and it's about as high as Lightfall. It's basically right 176 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:39.200 in line they got. They had the same performance in 177 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:42.159 the market as Lightfall, and it's like, yeah, they have 178 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:45.679 the players that are playing are playing Destiny now and 179 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.120 they did not shape this game in anything in any 180 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:50.279 real way to be like, this is a relaunch, This 181 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.519 is going to be an onboarding event for new people 182 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:57.159 to come in. This is paying off a year's long event. 183 00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:59.960 This is the culmination of ten years of storytelling and 184 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:02.320 all that stuff. It is going to be very hard 185 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.320 to attract new players at that time. And this is 186 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:06.679 when they needed to be growing to be able to 187 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:08.799 keep up with their with the deal that they made 188 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:12.759 with Sony. So when you have six hundred people, and 189 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.480 you know, once you did have pretty decent compensation, like 190 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:19.759 pretty generous compensation packages relatively compared to the rest of 191 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:23.440 the industry. And then you spend four more months on 192 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:26.000 the final shape compared to what you spend on Lightfall, 193 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:27.799 and then you get the same performance, and really it's 194 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.720 kind of a little bit worse because it is declining 195 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:33.240 faster than what Life Ball did in terms of concurrent players. 196 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.399 You could see that. It's like it's a recipe for 197 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.240 this sort of thing. And after you know, keeping the 198 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:41.440 right people, which is something that Pete Parsons said to 199 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:45.320 employees last time during the last round of layoffs, and 200 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.600 then they come out and make a great game and 201 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:51.120 it performs in line with what the expectations should have been, 202 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.240 and then everyone gets laid off because they didn't do 203 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:59.440 something magical. That is clearly mismanagement by Pete Parsons and 204 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:03.559 the whole executive leadership team. So and now, to be fair, 205 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.639 people on the leadership team are getting laid off. There 206 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:08.759 are like the chief business officer, there's a handful of 207 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.799 people from the c suite level that are getting laid off. 208 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.679 It's just not Pete Parsons, and that's why people are like, 209 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:17.960 step down, Pete, you should just resign. And I don't 210 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.480 think it's out of the question because BUNGHI is moving 211 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.519 under PlayStation Studios and maybe once that transition happens, Sony 212 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:26.080 will cut him. I don't know. 213 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.759 I either way, if when Pete Parsons leaves, the sore 214 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:33.679 spot for me is that he's going to get a 215 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:38.679 generous package as he exits the company. Either way, whether 216 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:42.080 he gets cut from Sony or PlayStation from a top 217 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.320 level or he decides to leave on his own accord, 218 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:49.120 he's going to have a generous compensation package as he exits, 219 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:53.799 despite gutting the company and like you know, displacing hundreds 220 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.960 of people and now especially across the board in different 221 00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:01.519 levels of Bungee, right, Like I hate whenever we have 222 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.559 a massive round of layoffs, just seeing people pop up 223 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.759 on Twitter saying like I've been at this company for 224 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:10.039 X amount of years and you see like the loyalty 225 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.360 from like those employees. You see how much working at Bungee, 226 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.639 working at X Studio meant to them, only for the 227 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:21.080 rugs to get pulled underneath them, like and it absolutely stinks. 228 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:21.759 Grub Yep. 229 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.240 It's great to see that Destiny Too is able to 230 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.840 like reach that same number of players, but like the 231 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:34.399 drop off is so immediate, and you know, like maybe 232 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.039 pouring those same people if you didn't let them go, 233 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.840 could sustain that player count for an extended period of time. 234 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:47.080 But I feel like the Destiny Too audience is just 235 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.200 going to keep coming back for like maybe a big 236 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:51.879 event like this, and then drop off immediately. And I 237 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:55.879 don't know if like those spikes are going to keep 238 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.879 Destiny Too healthy or even if that playership there is 239 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.600 to translate eventually to Marathon. And now I worry about 240 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:05.720 Marathon's launch as a whole. 241 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.000 Yep. And uh, you know, clearly we like the thing 242 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:10.639 that can get new players in is something like a 243 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.159 Destiny three. But let's let's talk about that that quote 244 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.519 from Pete Parsons where it's let's see what at the 245 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.120 end there, we need to focus development efforts entirely on 246 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:25.039 Destiny and Marathon. So what does that mean? Well, basically, 247 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.519 they are going to continue working on Marathon and Destiny Too. 248 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:30.919 They're going to keep making new content for Destiny Too. 249 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.559 Now when it comes to Destiny to the expectation, uh, 250 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:39.360 I believe internally is that the future content will be lighter, smaller, 251 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.720 to take less time than what the final shape did, 252 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:47.200 require fewer people, so there will be expansions and updates, 253 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.879 but they will be sort of not a shell of 254 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.440 their former selves, but they could. They'll definitely have that 255 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:57.559 vibe about them. And then Marathon, Yeah, yeah, go ahead. 256 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.799 That's definitely not what the any two audience wants. There 257 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:07.840 has been conditioned to expect. Do they know, are they 258 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:09.639 waiting for things to blow up in their face? 259 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:13.159 Scrub it? I mean, I don't know. I feel like 260 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.840 they're in that one of those rocks and hard places 261 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.879 where they feel like they don't have enough to like 262 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.879 start something new and to and they feel like they 263 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:28.000 have to make money now and to like shift like 264 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:30.080 they are not ready to go to Destiny three. We'll 265 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:31.559 talk about it more here in a second, but they 266 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.120 are not ready to do that. And so it's like 267 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:36.960 it's got to be on Marathon. That's still years away, 268 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:38.960 but they are gonna get working on that. That's the 269 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.720 next big release that they're hoping will hit. So got 270 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:43.559 a lot's riding on that, and you feel like things 271 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.200 could blow up in their face when it comes to 272 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.320 that if it doesn't go the right way. Now, Bunch's 273 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:49.559 still a very talented team. They still will have a 274 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.440 lot of talented people there, but morale's got to be low. 275 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.440 And believing that Marathon is the answer to all their 276 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.000 problems is likely something that no one there actually believed. 277 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:05.360 So yeah, destiny to continuing to go, probably starting up 278 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.639 some some new seasons or whatever, and and and being 279 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.519 being the primary going concern is is going to be 280 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:13.960 number one? And then Marathon being right there having a 281 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.799 lot of people working on that now, uh there. It 282 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.080 was that third game, Gummy Bears, which did leak a 283 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:23.399 while ago. Uh it is it was when it leaked, 284 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:28.000 it was a mobile mobile like game. And that is 285 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.360 spinning out onto onto a a new team that will 286 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:36.120 be under PlayStation Sony Interactive for entertainment, but they will 287 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:38.919 be in a an office that's still in like Bunchie's office. 288 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.080 Is that sort of thing that also doesn't feel like 289 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.000 an answer, But that's not under Bungee anymore. Right, that's 290 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:48.000 under PlayStation Studios. It's outside of Bunge, but they are 291 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.200 not closing that down. Now. What is going on the 292 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:57.440 shelf is payback. This is what was also leaked and 293 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:02.120 reported to be maybe Destiny three technically not Destiny three. 294 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.559 They internally they would refer to it as the next Destiny. 295 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.320 I don't know necessarily what the distinction is there, Jam, 296 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.600 but they think there's a distinction there. But that is 297 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.960 going on the shelf indefinitely, according to the people I've 298 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:18.799 talked to. And so either way, like, let's be clear, 299 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.840 a Destiny three or Next Destiny is just not the 300 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.440 thing that they are going to be coming out of 301 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:28.279 this looking toward, let alone working on in any real way. 302 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.679 And next Toy is a very good one, chat, thank 303 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.960 you very much. I don't to me, it sounds like 304 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.399 a mess. I don't know, it sounds like a huge mess. 305 00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.399 And like these messes start from the top crub right, 306 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:46.080 like they come from mismanagement across the board, and especially 307 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.840 like you are screwing with a developer that has a 308 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:54.240 deep roster of very talented devs and then like how 309 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:56.559 do you expect any of them to work at full 310 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.799 capacity when most of their teams that they've worked with 311 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:06.240 for years and years developed deep bonds and like just 312 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:09.920 like workflows together are are now gone suddenly from the company, 313 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.599 like Morales like you said, it's got to be at 314 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.559 an all time low, and especially when you are trying 315 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.279 to solve the problem of Destiny to retention and then 316 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:24.519 trying to lure new players laps players back into Destiny three. 317 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:28.559 That is like the that isn't an uphill climb at 318 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:33.319 this point, Greb, you were climbing up a greasy, oily 319 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.400 ladder at this point. And I don't know about you, 320 00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:37.079 but I don't normally like to do that. 321 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.200 Yeah, I try to avoid that wherever possible. We just 322 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:43.519 clarify a few things here from my notes and from 323 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:50.119 some stuff let's here. Yeah, those expansions for Destiny too, expansions, 324 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.440 they're not even using that term internally anymore. They're calling 325 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.920 them content packs. So like what that should put it 326 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:59.480 into perspective, Like what you should expect from Destiny to 327 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:01.880 going forward. They want Destiny to to keep being a thing, 328 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.119 but the investment level is going to pair back in 329 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:10.400 a significant, significant way. Meanwhile, they still think Marathon is 330 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:13.359 actually coming out in twenty twenty five, So I'm correcting that, right, 331 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:17.160 I said years away twenty twenty five, and I'm told 332 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.519 that expectations are sky high. They are enormous for that game. 333 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.160 So that goes back to that leadership of what are 334 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.640 you telling PlayStation and then what are you putting on 335 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.920 the line. What's the collateral that you are putting that 336 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.599 you are betting and putting on the table that that 337 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:38.160 gets lost if you don't hit those expectations. And based 338 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.759 on what's happened time and time again now with with 339 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.319 Bungie under under PlayStation, probably a. 340 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:48.559 Lot I would have to imagine there are rumblings within PlayStation. 341 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:52.440 They made this huge investment in buying an acquiring Bungee 342 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.400 because they knew how much of an asset it could be, 343 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.720 only to see you know, player account dwind and then 344 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.720 now all of this like negative buzz about the company 345 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:08.640 prior to even to this round of layoffs, Like still 346 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.400 I feel like we were feeling the effects of the 347 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.680 last round of layoffs and the only thing to kind 348 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:16.480 of like put that to bed was the positive reception 349 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.799 to the last DLC that came out for Destiny Too. 350 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.799 And now this happens again. I got to feel that 351 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.960 people at PlayStation they have to be upset at this mismanagement, right, 352 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.720 like they have to step in at some point, and 353 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.960 maybe they're stepping in ever so slightly with like the 354 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.079 Little Gummy Bear team. I hate that. That is the 355 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:38.519 most intriguing thing from this. 356 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:40.839 They're stepping in in a big way though. I mean 357 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:45.480 by shifting Bungee under PlayStation, that's something we talked a 358 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.680 little bit more about yesterday and that I talked about 359 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:52.119 on Twitter. Yeah, Herman Holt now fully is, like I say, 360 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.039 runs Bungie. He's not like taking over Pete Parson's role. 361 00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:57.480 He's not the CEO of Bungie or something like that. 362 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.279 But like any other studio, Bungee now exist under Sony 363 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:06.599 Interactive Entertainment's PlayStation Worldwide Studios banner, and that that clearly 364 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.079 is going to be very different. It means they have 365 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.960 to answer to to PlayStation in a way that like 366 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:13.960 just a little bit ago, every PlayStation studio was answering 367 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.039 to Bungee, like and if they had a live service thing, 368 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.079 it's like, hey, is your life service thing good enough? Well, 369 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.480 here's Bunchie to tell you no or yes? Oh my lord. 370 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:27.480 Is Pete Parson's response single handly responsible for the Last 371 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.680 of Us project being shelved in Concord making the green light. 372 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:33.119 I mean, it definitely seems like that's a big part 373 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.160 of it. Now, whether that's like Pete Parson's showing up 374 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:36.000 or not, I have no idea. 375 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:37.519 I'm a blame them, Yeah, I'm a blame them. 376 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:40.920 Yeah, that's that seems fair. But yeah, I meaning Goober. 377 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.680 We do know the last of Us Factions game was 378 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:46.440 like big part of that was was a Bungie showed up. 379 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.000 It was like this, there's some issues and there almost 380 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.440 certainly were there almost certainly weren't going to be problems 381 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.759 with that game running it's a live service, but they 382 00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.759 showed up and highlighted them. And Sony I don't know 383 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.440 if they panicked or something, but they definitely pulled back 384 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.599 from that game because of that. So, yeah, it is. 385 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:09.200 It's it's a mess, is what it is. And I 386 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:11.920 feel for everyone that is going to have to like 387 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.359 try to like push through this. There's that the two 388 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.920 hundred and twenty people who are just cut. There's one 389 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:20.839 hundred and fifty ish people that are being moved from 390 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.839 Bungee over to Sony Interactive Entertainment, And I bet a 391 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:26.880 lot of those people are like, wait, what does that 392 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.759 look like? What am I doing? What job do I? Like? 393 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:32.960 What do you am? I? Really going to be protected here. 394 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:35.160 It's yes, what does that mean? It's got to be 395 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:39.480 very confusing, and again having just you know, a couple 396 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:41.799 of mistakes made by people at the top who are 397 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.240 too busy buying cars instead and having like rip apart 398 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.359 so many people's lives one way or the other, either 399 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.920 losing their jobs or being shifted around and whipped around 400 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:54.839 to some other department. That is rough stuff. And I 401 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.279