Speaker 1: You're listening to petlifradio dot com.
Speaker 2: And welcome, Welcome on this great Sunday morning. You are
here live with doctor Jeff Werber on pet Life Radio's
Ask the Bets with Doctor Jeff, and we want to
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We're gonna get to that question in just a bit,
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Kong Toys. So we've been having a series going on
of late of different organ systems. We were talking about
the endocrine systems, and we told you that this week
we're going to take a little break because it's holiday time.
It's gift time, and you know, when we think of gifts,
we don't think of the kind of gift that we're
going to talk about in just a second. And to
help us do that, we have a very special guest,
doctor Danny Mcvieadie, a graduate of the Verninary School, University
of Florida, and she and her partner Mary Gardner, have
come up with a service and it's a whole different
concept and it's really emerging and it's so new in
veterinary medicine. And as you know, she and I have
discussed over the years something that I've been doing for
years and yet it wasn't an accepted or known practice
and it has become and doctor Danny and Mary started
a service and it's called Lap of Love and the
gift they give is a little bit different than the
gifts that you and I might think about when we
think about our pets. And what's so interesting and why
holiday time is that it seems that they get very
busy this time of year and it was so interesting.
I was talking recently on some of you know, and
I've talked about it. In the last four weeks, I've
had two of my cats down, had to say goodbye,
and you know, very tough. One was eighteen and a half,
you know, God bless him, eighteen and a half years old.
I'll take that all day long. The other one, unfortunately,
my Zoolander, had a congenital defect called renal laplacia, and
though he was only eleven, his kidneys were like nineteen
and that was really, really tough. But when I was
mentioning this to my associate doctor Gary Adams, he said,
he goes, oh, holiday time, and I go, what do
you mean. It's a trend and we're going to talk
about that right now. So Lap of Love is a
great service growing by leaps and bounds. They have offices
pretty much now all over the country and they have
a specialty, and their specialty is in home home hospice
and in home euthanasia. And here to help us discuss
this amazing gift is doctor Danny herself. Danny, how you
doing good?
Speaker 3: Doctor Jeff, how you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing okay? So tell me how did you go
from because I find this, as you know, we've spoken
about this so fascinating. Where did you realize the need
and how you can help people and pets in sort
of a less traditional way than the way I help
the pets out of the place don't come out well.
Speaker 4: You know it is.
Speaker 5: It's just like you said, it's something that you and
veterinarians have been doing for generations, and now we've just
kind of started to accept it, you know, as our
dogs have gone and cats have gone from the barnyard
into quite literally our beds, you know, under our sheets,
sometimes to the chagrin of spouses. But you know, our
pets are becoming part of our lives and part of
our families, and as such, the service and level of
care that we give them is going to continue to
evolve and change and grow. And I volunteered for Human
Hospice when I was in college, and it's just the
most amazing organization. The values that Human Hospice provides, the
acceptance of death and looking at death as the opposite
of birth, not the opposite of life, as part of
the life system, that death is not the failure of medicine,
but it's a natural progression of biology. And getting into
veterinary school and watching how sometimes you know, we shun
away from this word euthanasia, even as doctors. We feel
like it's a failure on our part to have to euthanize.
And just like you said, Jeff, the euthanasia is the
greatest gift that we can give a pet when that
time has come, is quite literally the greatest gift. And
then for veterinary hospice, we also look at the greatest
gift that we can give the family, his ability to
say goodbye and the most calm, loving, compassionate in home
end of life experience that quite literally medicine has to offer.
And yes, that's what we're focused on, and that's what
we're dedicated to doing in providing.
Speaker 2: You know, I were my first, and I share the
story with you, but you know, my first experience in
home euthanasia was not planned, not at all. It was
I got a call from an elderly woman who was
living alone. Her husband passed away a number of years earlier,
and she had this very very old German shepherd that
was failing. Dog was about thirteen and a half, which
first shepherd is, you know, is very old, and she
could not get this dog up. She couldn't. She'd had
no help, and she called me one morning in tears
because she knew it was time and her neighbor wasn't
there anyone who can help her. She didn't have any grandchildren.
Or kids around to help her, and she felt helpless,
and I can hear it in her voice, and I
said to her, I said, you know what, let me
ask a question. If you can wait a few more
hours and just sit with him, I'll come over to
your house and I'll do it at your house. And
she was so thankful and so appreciative. And I figured
this was going to be a one shot deal because
never before have I even considered going to someone's home
because I don't do house calls. I'm not a house
called doc. I'm not equipped for this. And I went
over there and I kind of put together a bag
of all the things I think I would need, and
you know, I felt like the old doctor country doc,
going over with my you know, the bag in my
hand and my doctor's bag and my stethoscope. And the
dog was lying on its bed, its favorite bed, and
couldn't get up, you know, with the tail gave a
couple of wags when he saw men. And I sat
down with the owner. First of all, we talked and
celebrated this dog's life, not so much mourning over the death,
but celebration over the life and how wonderful this dog
was for her when her husband passed away, and how
badly she did not want to see her dog suffer
unnecessarily knowing that it was his time. And we sat
there and we talked, and we reminisced, and I went
ahead and I gave the injection in the dog's favorite room,
on his favorite bed, with his favorite person with him,
his mom. And it was the most amazing experience for
me as well. And as I drove away, and I
took the dog with me and I wrapped him up
in a blanket and I put him in the back
of my car to bring it to my office and
we had him cremated. I thought to myself, Oh my god,
this was amazing. This is the way it should be now.
I often joke I get more tongue than anybody I know.
My patients love me, and yet even though they still
know they're coming to the vet, they still have smells,
they might have anxiety, be a shot. Yeah, they love me,
but they may not always love the experience. Why should
that be their last memory? And when I heard what
you guys do, I was so impressed. But a couple
of people have mentioned, and even you have mentioned, like,
oh my god, it's holiday time. What is it about
the holidays that seems to have you guys even busier?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And it's a very interesting thing that as veterinarians,
we you know, we will go around and around and
around like what is it? You know, why is there
this big kind of there seems to be a rush
before and then on the actual Christmas Day or Thanksgiving
Day it's very you know, there're not many people are
gonna request that, and then right after it's a huge rush.
And I think it's it's a combination of many, many
different things based on the family's personalities just in general.
And one of them would be, Okay, you know, son,
daughter come in from out of town. They haven't seen
their childhood pet in nine months, and they come back like.
Speaker 3: Mom, Dad, what are you doing?
Speaker 5: How don't you see the fluffies loss like forty five
pounds in the past, you know, three months, But mom
and dad don't see it because they see fluffy every day, right,
so they don't see that. In natural progression, they come
home and all the sudden it's like, oh my gosh,
we have to do something about this, or vice versa.
You know, mom and dad think we've got to do
something Fluffy's getting you know, really bad, and son or
daughter want to wait until they get there to see
to say their last goodbyes. And then they get there
and all of a sudden, like, no, what are you doing?
You can't do it yet, not yet, not yet. But
then another couple of days go by, and then son
and daughter see what mom and dad have been seeing,
and then all of a sudden we make that decision.
But I do think it has a lot to do
with the families being around and being together, and just
like you said, we go into those homes and we
celebrate the life for a family to be there with
their pet, their childhood, you know, literally family member is it's.
Speaker 3: The best experience that it can be. I think a
lot of it.
Speaker 5: And it's very very interesting because, you know, as a veterinarian,
we get this question. This is this question is only
presented when the family actually has the for lack of
a better term, kind of the guts to ask. But
they think that, Okay, I have to leave for a week.
I have to go out of town for a week.
But my thirteen year old labrador that can't get up
and move around anymore, I don't want my neighbor would
have to come over and deal with this, what if
something happens while I'm gone, And you have to give
them permission guidance as veterinarians on what.
Speaker 3: Is the best for that pet, you know, because.
Speaker 5: There is an ad and level of anxiety when mom
and dad aren't there for the animal.
Speaker 2: Well, you made a really good point, and that is
and I find that sometimes we need, or people in
that physician need that reinforcement that what they're doing is okay.
They want to hear it from somebody else. Interestingly, And
I've had an absolutely last night, a Saturday night. Men
people are going out and having fun or going to
see movies or going out to have dinner. And I
was in someone's home putting their cat to sleep. And one,
I mean, we knew. I did a house call for
this cat because this cat gets really, really really freaked
out when it goes to the vet. And so I
was there actually earlier in the week to take blood
and urine so we could because I felt that this
cat was having it, it was time and obviously we
needed the confirmation. So I took the blood and sure
enough it came back as severe kidney failure and I
told them basically what was going to happen, and it
was going to happen soon, and they were about to
move actually this Tuesday, and they were so worried already
about the affair that this move is going to have
on this cat, and they just needed that help to
make the decision. And I think your point, and it's
interesting when I talk to my associate, who is just
practical as they come. That was his point. He says,
you know, the kids are coming home, families coming over,
and they are seeing what we don't see because we're
there every day. And you know, that's why interesting that
having made the mistake I think, and I've heard this
said often. I'm sure you know doctor Alice the Lobos,
who does a lot of this as well, the hospice
and home care. She said that you can easily make
the mistake of waiting a two or three days too long,
but you can't make the mistake of doing it two
to three days too early, because what is two days
when you look at the life of that pet, When
you look at the thirteen, fifteen, eighteen, nineteen years, what
is three days?
Speaker 5: And you've seen it too, You've worked with families so
long I have never, not one time and the thousands
of families that I've helped, ever had someone say I
am so concerned. I feel so guilty that I did
it too soon.
Speaker 3: It's always the other way.
Speaker 5: I feel so guilty that I wait because you put
them through suffering that they didn't have. Was that famous quote,
I'd rather help a friend a minute too early than
a second too late.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, there's needing that reinforcement and the
gift of knowing that it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 5: And we even say, you know, if you want to
wait until the very very very last moment, knowing that
you absolutely have to eke out every single, every single
second with your pet, you must understand that you're risking
emergency situation. But if you want to guarantee the most peaceful, calm, loving,
compassionate experience that medicine has to offer, that's what we
do and that's.
Speaker 3: What we can do.
Speaker 2: And we're going to break here for a second. We
want to come back out, so we want to talk
about some of the hospice things that you do, and
then we also have to get a question or two
in from one of our listeners. If you have anything
you want to ask talk question about the process, about
euthanasia itself, what your fears are concerned are, Go ahead
and log into petlife radio dot com to ask the
vets with doctor Jeff tab And right there you're going
to see a little box that says join the conversation.
As Sarah already did, go ahead and join us. Pype
in your question. Between the two of us, we will
get that answered, So please stay tuned. We'll be back
in just a few minutes here on pet Life Radio's
assetats with doctor Jeff with me and doctor Danny mcvittie.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back right after these messages. Stay tuned.
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Speaker 2: And welcome back. You are here live with me doctor
Jeff Werber and my special guest, doctor Dan mcfady of
Lap of Love, veterinan hospice and in home euthanasia. And
you know, before the break, we were just talking about
the process and about the fears that many people have
about it, and veterinarians. It's like such an unspoken concept.
Nobody likes to talk about it, and yet I just
have to read I just got a holiday card from
a client family that I put their doctors sleep in
their home, took care of their dog for many many years.
And you know, you read these and you realize just
how special this time is for not I mean certainly
for the family, of course, for the pet. It is
a gift. And let me just read this to you.
It goes dear doctor Werber again, thank you is not
enough for your kindness, caring and generosity. We really really
appreciate what you did for Macy. We love you. You
know you are vet forever. I mean, how cool is that?
And what kind of things?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 2: Who sends a thank you note when you give a shot,
when you do an amazing they go home after the spade.
We don't get thank you notes for that, but go
to their home and put their pet to sleep with
compassion and kindness. And it's a different experience. And these
are the notes I get them all the time. It
is unbelievable that your experience must be the same, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Oh the same thing?
Speaker 5: And and you know, I mean as veterinarians, we talk
about it all the time that you don't get the
thank you cards for the two o'clock c section that
you did. And you're so proud of yourself that you
can't believe you saved every puppy in there. You did
this most amazing, incredible orthopedic implant that you just you
just learned it at school.
Speaker 3: Or some conference. You know, this amazing thing that it's
us is incredible. You don't always get a thank you
card for that, and even of course.
Speaker 5: The families are thankful, but they expect you to do that, right,
that's expected. But when you give that family an emotional hug,
when you're there with them with compassion and love and empathy,
and when you share those special moments with them in
a way that they don't expect, that's when you gain
that rapport. And that's when you touch them in a
way that they don't expect.
Speaker 3: To beat it.
Speaker 2: And also, so we talked about for and I totally agree.
I want to talk about it for a second about
hospice because you know, when my mom was in hospice
before she passed, and you know, I know what it
was like, and it was a very long, you know,
dragged out kind of concept. I mean, she used to
joke all the time that, you know, when when she
got to the point that I should bring home that
pink juice, which is we know what that pink juice is.
It's the euthanasia solution. Obviously, you know, even though now
it's legal in some states, it's not here in California.
And plus I would do that anyway. But the key
is tell us about hospice for pets, how it's different,
what is the goal, et cetera.
Speaker 5: So a hospice in general, just as a medical term,
is palliative care, and palliative means comfort oriented, not curative.
So the difference is, Okay, now you know we are
going to be managing symptoms.
Speaker 3: So let's say Kat with renal failure.
Speaker 5: You know, we're not really doing things that are trying
to reverse that renal failure. Or let's take a better example,
you know, bone cancer something like that. We're not trying
to cure the bone cancer. We're managing the symptoms that
affect the pet such that quality of life is improved.
So that's what palliative care is. And in human medicine, obviously,
just like you said, we don't have the availability of
euthanasia in the same capacity that we do in veterinary medicine,
and so that veterinarian hospice is not inclusive of euthanasia,
but it's something that we it's a way of looking
at the case via comfort oriented measures until the family elects.
Speaker 3: The euthanasia process.
Speaker 5: Basically, So that is what veterinarian hospice is and and
you know what we do and this this kind of
goes for really all aspects of life. But when we're
looking at veterinary hospice and helping the family evaluate quality
of life and how we can improve quality of life,
just like human hospice does, we look at the four budgets.
And this is how I explain it to the families
that that we help as well. Everyone understands financial budget,
you know, that's an obvious budget, but we also have
the emotional budget, you know, I mean sometimes we are
emotionally drained and we're allowed to have that physically drained
you physically, just like that family that couldn't get the
hundred pound you know, German shepherd up you physically, you
have a budget. You can't get that pet up to
go to the clinic, to go outside for the bathroom,
you know, things that would otherwise keep that pet perhaps
a little bit more comfortable. And then of course the
time budget as well. You know, we don't always have
the availability of intensive nursing care for our pets again
in the same capacity, in the same way. So we
talked about those four budgets when evaluate quality of life.
How can we manage the symptoms of the pet until
the family elects euthanasy or a natural death occurs, you know,
of course as well. So it's not about extending suffering.
I think that that's a common misnomer that veterinary hospice
is about extending suffering and bet that should otherwise be euthanized.
Speaker 3: But it's not at all. It's not at all. It's
about you know.
Speaker 5: And Jeff, you let me share you a story real quick.
I was doing emergency medicine, so when I first got
out of veterinary school, within a couple of months I
started Lap of Love, but I did emergency medicine. In
the day that I knew that there was a place
for veterinarian hospice, it was about eight pm and an
old woman came in with her cat, and she had
about nineteen year old cat.
Speaker 3: The cat was dying of renal failure.
Speaker 5: You know. I told her, I said, you know, your
cat is literally dying and the process of death has
already started.
Speaker 3: And I talked.
Speaker 5: To her, you know, at great length about the quality
of life and about what we could do and what
we couldn't do, and she just did not want the
cat euthanized. And then finally, towards the end of the conversation,
she said that her two other cats had died that
exact same day for the past.
Speaker 3: Two years in a row.
Speaker 5: I mean, imagine that, and that's why she didn't want
that cat euthanized on that dead.
Speaker 3: This was again at eight pm, so we.
Speaker 5: Discussed it, and she would rather the cat die of
natural causes instead of euthanasia. And at this point, you know,
based on the cat, it really was time to alleviate
the suffering. I mean, that's in our veterinary oath is
the relief and prevention of pain and suffering. So long
story short, she was beside herself with the idea of euthanasia.
Speaker 3: So I set her up.
Speaker 5: We did pain medicine for the cat, a heating pad,
some fluids. We made this cat as comfortable as could
possibly be, and I told her at twelve oh.
Speaker 3: One, I'll be coming in. We're going to euthanize, and
she was good with that.
Speaker 5: And she sat there for four hours and loved on
her pet and read magazines and talked to.
Speaker 3: Her and everything, and it was it was amazing.
Speaker 5: A twelve o one, I walked in and we euthanized,
and she gave a big hug. And when I gave
her a hug, I said, you want me to call
you a cab. I know, this is really tough time.
She looked at me and she said, no, that time
was exactly what I needed. So to me, that's one
of the most perfect examples of time. And whether that
that's four hours, or it's four days, or it's waiting
till the son or daughter come back in town, or
the spousekets back in town, whatever it is, it's that
time that she needed to come to terms with the
process that was happening and the availability and utilization of
euthanasia at a very appropriate time.
Speaker 2: You know, it's an interesting you say that. I for
years have talked to younger veterinarians, talked to my associates
and clients. I'm saying, you understand that at this time,
Bowser's ready, so we're treating you, and that's okay, I said,
I often, it's got to be that you have to
have that emotional readiness. You have to be prepared, and
what you don't want is anyone kicked themselves in the butt.
A year later, two years later, and saying only if
I would, only if I should have tried, you know,
And so oftentimes I will let an owner know that
if you said to me you're ready, I'm ready. I
don't think the pet is suffering, but this is what
we need to do because I want to make sure
you're ready. And then in essence, what I'm doing is hospice.
I'm giving the fluids, I'm giving the pain medication. We're
just as you mentioned, it's palliative. It's just to soothe
the pet, to minimize any kind of discomfort, to minimize
or remove any kind of pain, and until we get
to that point where the owner is ready, where they're
comfortable with their decision, because man, guilt is the worst thing.
And by the way, guilt goes both ways in the
sense that I once before, which I mean you learn
from it when I have to make the decision. Recently
was Zulander. By the way, if you guys want to
go to my Facebook page to doctor Jeff Werber, I
wrote a tribute about Zulander, about my cat, who was
the most magnificent cat on the planet. But the reason
why I knew when it was time and I did
not wait was because my old cat before that, several
years ago, is a cat named Sushi, this oriental short hair.
We had Sushi and Sake. We had two oriental short hairs,
and it was time for Sushi. But we kept in.
Every time you're treating a cat, you're treating a dog
and they have a good day, our natural response is,
oh my god, we're onto something. Let's keep going, let's
keep going. No, no, no, no, it was a good day.
We all have good days, we all have bad days.
It was time. And when we finally said goodbye, we
all looked at each other, and my son especially and
he goes, Dad, we waited too long, and oh my god,
did that affect me it? And he's right. He was
one hundred percent right. And you realize you get more
philosophical the more of these you do, the more you see,
the more pets you have. You know you're going to
lose the battle anyway, So why wait until you actually
lost it? Why not say goodbye when it's time, When
you notice and you know there's no way to win
this one, gather together as a fan, talk about it,
and you do the right thing, and you.
Speaker 5: Know, and there's a trend, Jeff that I started seeing
probably about a year or so into the veterinary hospice practice,
is that the families that are going through it for
the first time, so this is the first time that
they're going through the end of life decision making process
for one of their pets, they tend to wait too long.
And that's not my opinion, that's their opinion of the experience.
After it's said and done, they tell me, I waited
too long, just like your son said.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting and that.
Speaker 5: That's now one of the first questions that I ask
the families when we go into any type of hospice
or euthanasia service at all, it's one of the first
questions that I ask is have you ever been through
this before? Because if they haven't, I will tell them
that I said, you know, it has been a very
common trend that if it is the first time, they
tend to wait too long. And that's what families tell
me afterwards. It's like it's almost like you're waiting for
that written note from your pet saying okay, Mom, okay, Dad,
I'm ready now, you know, but you're not going to
get that. You know, You're just not going to get
that written letter from your pets saying okay, I'm ready,
And instead we have the responsibility as pet parents, as owners,
you know, whatever we identify ourselves with, we have that
responsibility to make that decision not just based on stopping
suffering that's occurring at the moment. You know, I love
when people call me and say he's not suffering yet.
My next statement is always, but do you want him
to be? Let's not only stop suffering it's occurring at
the moment, but prevent it from occurring at all. And
in our veterinari Oath it says the relief and prevention
right of pain and suffering, so we can we can
say goodbye on a good day. And yes, you need
to know how to handle that guilt as a pet parent,
and as veterinarians, we go through that ourselves, you know,
we go through that guilt or process the guilt and
handle the guilt of pushing a plunger and assisting in
the death of alive being. We all, all us veterinarians,
have had to work through that and we all have
our ways as pet parents. Is different because you feel
like you've made the decision, and if you make.
Speaker 3: It on a good day, and I when families.
Speaker 5: Say, but it's a good day, I don't know what
I should do say, you know, but what a way
to go though. I think it's wonderful to have a
wonderful day and to then say goodbye in the best
way we can possibly, you know, and make that be
a experience and a loving experience instead of one that
we're rushing to do and then regret that they had
to go through suffering in the first place.
Speaker 2: Right, that's so interesting. It's so you know when I
talk to a lot of people and the hero on
veterinarian and I'm sure you've gone through the same thing.
Oh god, you know, I always want when i'm kid,
I want to be a veterinarian, but I don't know
if I can. How do you put them to slay?
And you know, when you have these experiences and you
really see, as I call it the beauty of euthanasia,
the gift of euthanasia, you realize how wonderful you are
to that pet, and it really does it's such justification
for you know. It's it's always hard. And I tell
the owner, it's going to be difficult for you, whether
we do it today or I do it next week.
That's a gimme. But why should the pet have to
wait that week when right now here's ready.
Speaker 5: And you know, euthanasia literally means good death rights. That's
what euthanasia means. You know, it is euthanasia, which is
good death. And that's what we're priding. That's what it is,
and it is it's the most It's the greatest gift
that we can give that pet, and the relief of
that guilt or the assistance with that decision is the
greatest gift that we give the family. And it is
and everybody says it, Jeff, I mean, every veterinary, this
must be the hardest thing you have to do.
Speaker 3: And this is all that I do right. I choose
to do this.
Speaker 5: This is my choice to do this right, and not
only to do it, but to teach other veterinarians how
to do it also. So yeah, whenever they say that,
if ever, of course, every single family I help says
you must hate doing this, I always look at them
straight in the eye. So this is an honor to
be here with you, because you will never forget any
moment of this appointment. I don't forget any moment of
the times that I've had to euthanize my own pets.
I lose pets two. I'm a pet mom too, and
I don't forget it as a single second. And for
me to be part of that memory with those families
is an honor, of flat out honor. It's not something
I pred them that doesn't happen. It comes with a
great deal of respect for what we do as doctors
and what it means.
Speaker 2: Well, I totally agree, and I thank you so much
for joining us there. Our time is up. It goes
so fast. If anyone has any questions for doctor Danny
Orby or anything about this subject, please go ahead and
send me an email to DRJF Doctor Jeff at petliferadio
dot com. You can also call us here at eight
seven seven three eight five eight eight eight two, and
real quick before we go, because I know our time
is up. Sarah asked you about acid reflux in a
Golden Doodle and the do they get acid reflex And
the answer is absolutely And it usually happens when or
sometime when they have an empty stomach, sometimes the middle
of the night, early morning, late late night. They'll spit
up flammor bio. They'll they'll lick their lips, they feel nauseous,
and a couple of simple solutions. Number one, feed a
late night snack before you go to bed, save about
a third or a quarter of dinner till about ten
o'clock at night. Give it late so there's something in
the stomach as they go to bed. You can also
put them on a simple like a pepsid and figure
out the dose with your veterinarian. It's about a half
of a milligram per kilogram body weight, so you know
a big dog might take a big dog might take
twenty milligram. Usually it's a ten milligram over the counter
pepsid AC or you know any fraction thereof. Give it
about thirty minutes before a meal, and that's to help
again solve the gasterkreflux problem. It's usually not a problem.
These dogs are otherwise happy, healthy, eating well, have normal BMS.
Tool everything else is perfect, so try that first before
spending a lot of money at your doctor. If you
have any questions for sure, go ahead and send me
a note anyway. Thanks for joining. I want to thank
you once again our sponsors. I want to thank pro
Sense Pet Products. I want to thank Kong Sarah's going
to get a free pro sense and contoy for sending
us a question about the Golden Doodle. I want to
thank doctor Danny mcgeade for being here. She and are
going to be together at the North American Ventery Conference
coming up in a few weeks, and our show is
going to be live again, so if you have any
questions saved up, she'll be our guest again at the
conference and we can talk more about this amazing sensitive topic.
But man, is it important for all of you. Have
a wonderful new year and we will see you back.
I'll be here next Sunday.
Speaker 5: You will.
Speaker 1: Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on Petlife
Radio dot com.