Speaker 1: I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage
Speaker 1: and I have three kids.
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came
Speaker 2: out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.
Speaker 1: This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles
Speaker 1: and victories that come with.
Speaker 2: It when coming out feels like the end of the world,
Speaker 2: but it's really just the beginning.
Speaker 1: This is the Lesbian Chronicles. Yeah, welcome to the Lesbian Chronicles.
Speaker 3: Joining us in studio on my body day on her birthday?
Speaker 1: Has that? What ever happened where the show lined up?
Speaker 2: I was just thinking, I'm like, usually if it's a
Speaker 2: birthday situation where like not, I don't even like to
Speaker 2: work on my.
Speaker 1: Birthday, So this doesn't work. This is fun exactly. I'm
Speaker 1: mortally I'm usually gone out of town on my birthday.
Speaker 3: Hide, yeah, but not tonight. Not tonight. But you're going out.
Speaker 3: You are going out of town though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am going out of town. I'm leaving tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1: I didn't I usually like to be gone on the day.
Speaker 1: But I don't remember why I didn't do that this time.
Speaker 1: I think it had to do with boarding the dog
Speaker 1: and yeah, other nonsensical things.
Speaker 2: And we celebrated you on Saturday night. I thought you
Speaker 2: you guys, dude, Okay.
Speaker 1: Okay, tell them because this is like unreal.
Speaker 2: Had I not take credit for this idea? I don't
Speaker 2: even know who came up with the idea.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think it was Kristin Thomas, who I just
Speaker 1: had brunch with. By the way, thank you, Kristin. Nice.
Speaker 2: So I get a text like maybe a day or
Speaker 2: two before we're supposed to meet up for your birthday
Speaker 2: that says everyone's dressing like Ali.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I love this idea.
Speaker 1: I got this, and you have it probably the most
Speaker 1: of everyone.
Speaker 3: Well, I was like, okay, this is easy. I've got
Speaker 3: plenty in my closet, like, no big deal.
Speaker 2: In fact, you didn't even notice that I was dressed
Speaker 2: like you when you first see it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until the long sleeve around the waist felt
Speaker 1: a little bit something you may not do normally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was really my distinguishing factor that in the
Speaker 2: boots with shorts I wouldn't normally do.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I was like.
Speaker 2: When when Kristin and Amy walked in and Robin, I
Speaker 2: was like, yep, nailed it, like you guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, So these people are showing up to my place
Speaker 1: for a for a beverage before the event that I
Speaker 1: didn't even know why we were hosting. So Melissa essentially
Speaker 1: has people showing up at my house beforehand, and each
Speaker 1: one of them is showing up dressed weird, but you
Speaker 1: can't put it together until you see a few of them,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, Okay, guys, what's going on here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Lindsay had on like workout clothes.
Speaker 3: That didn't make sense until later.
Speaker 1: They didn't make sense until later, and when she walked in,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm shocked she's wearing that to the bar.
Speaker 1: And then also the next day when I went to
Speaker 1: meet her, we work out together. I go to meet
Speaker 1: her and I realize as I'm putting on my workout outfit,
Speaker 1: She'd like nailed it. It's like socks and birken stocks.
Speaker 1: It's like yoga pants. I mean, I was like cut
Speaker 1: off tea with big armholes. She nailed it. And then
Speaker 1: did Kristen tell you? Her and Amy went out beforehand
Speaker 1: to dinner and She's like, I have never felt so
Speaker 1: physically uncomfortable in my clothes as I did in your
Speaker 1: look out.
Speaker 3: That's hilarious. I think that speaks to like they know
Speaker 3: their style.
Speaker 2: You know, if it's that uncomfortable, they need to be
Speaker 2: in that little their femme world.
Speaker 1: Still, well, do you think like if we had to
Speaker 1: dress like them? Like I was thinking, like, what if
Speaker 1: somebody told me that I have to go to the
Speaker 1: bars in a dress and wedgets?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I would feel I am comfortable.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe this is our test maybe for a
Speaker 2: Christmas birthday, will dress like her?
Speaker 1: I know, like I don't even know that I could,
Speaker 1: at least like my look is a little bit Adam
Speaker 1: Sandler comfortable on the weekend, right, it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1: There's just like a committed look like I would look
Speaker 1: like an idiot.
Speaker 3: You look like a suburban mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean they have great clothes, and.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say they're making it sound like they dress lovely.
Speaker 2: They they just look put together, like straight out of
Speaker 2: a magazine magazine.
Speaker 1: But it's like, imagine me in the wedges and the
Speaker 1: great like, I just wouldn't. I would look so silly.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking about this because I was going
Speaker 2: through pictures to post for your Instagram birthday posts, and
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, I could really pull some out
Speaker 2: of the archives here. I'm so glad you don't even
Speaker 2: look like either of us anymore.
Speaker 1: It makes me like, for some reason only, it makes
Speaker 1: me a little embarrassed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it is kind of interesting to think about,
Speaker 2: like how different it is, and it does I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if embarrassed is the right word. It's
Speaker 2: more so like, who was I then?
Speaker 1: I know it's like, am I faking it now? Or
Speaker 1: was I faking it that?
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I'm faking it now. I feel
Speaker 3: more genuine now, Like even I'm definitely more genuine getting
Speaker 3: on this.
Speaker 2: I was like, man, I look really like girly today,
Speaker 2: but I just shot an audition where I have to
Speaker 2: like look kind of just you know, like normal, like
Speaker 2: a regular human. I can't wear a flat built hat
Speaker 2: for a commercial for a grocery store chain.
Speaker 1: That would not if you're married to a man.
Speaker 2: If they want to mix it up a little bit,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe they throw in a lesbian.
Speaker 1: I will say, like, we have these new marketing people
Speaker 1: who they know I'm gay, and they were putting together,
Speaker 1: like are some pictures for our website, and on one
Speaker 1: of the pictures they put two women like looking over
Speaker 1: like a house am, And I thought, strategically, are they
Speaker 1: doing it for me? Or are they doing it for
Speaker 1: like do they think that's going to appeal to the masses.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, lesbians remodeled their homes too.
Speaker 1: They just did they do it. They just did themselves.
Speaker 3: They just do it themselves exactly.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, terrible, terrible, terrible. Also, speaking of which, when
Speaker 1: we were out that night for my birthday, I'm seeing
Speaker 1: like a lot of the videos. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: we should post the picture of all of us standing
Speaker 1: dressed in the outfits. But as the videos like rolled
Speaker 1: in of the evening, like people start sharing like videos
Speaker 1: they took, I'm like, oh my god, you guys. Once again,
Speaker 1: I was overserved.
Speaker 3: I was over served on thousand once again.
Speaker 2: That's definitely the case. I mean what, it was a
Speaker 2: fun night, That's what matters.
Speaker 1: It was a good night. And I never did any
Speaker 1: of the shots that were being Twice I saw d
Speaker 1: of shots go and I literally was like, how do
Speaker 1: I pretend and not do this? All right, well, let's
Speaker 1: talk gay.
Speaker 3: Let's talk gay.
Speaker 2: This is kind of something that we've touched on a
Speaker 2: little bit before, but just in the sense of like
Speaker 2: dating over the age of I'm just gonna say forty.
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not, you know, I'm.
Speaker 1: Feeling so much older than that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking of our listeners that are under forty
Speaker 2: that might be a little bit more mature.
Speaker 3: You know my.
Speaker 1: Birthday, all right?
Speaker 2: I know, what do you want me to say? Over
Speaker 2: fifty that's when you start dating better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, over fifty is when all the magic happens.
Speaker 3: Guys, all the magic happens. Well anyway, This post from.
Speaker 2: Jillian Tareki says a relationship over forty is sometimes the
Speaker 2: first time people can love without losing themselves. You're not
Speaker 2: too late, You're finally clear on who you are. And
Speaker 2: I resonate with that massively right now, because I don't
Speaker 2: I feel like this is the first time that I've
Speaker 2: been dating, and I don't feel like I'm wrapped up.
Speaker 2: I'm not losing myself in one person. I'm not banking
Speaker 2: on everything working out with certain people like end All
Speaker 2: be All, and just slowly getting to know not only
Speaker 2: like the new people, but like myself and the process
Speaker 2: and how I feel like in a way that I
Speaker 2: can't say that I've ever done.
Speaker 1: Okay, so say more like you're more instead of like
Speaker 1: fantasizing and building a future with some random stranger that
Speaker 1: you've just started dating that you really know nothing about
Speaker 1: until you have a few seasons with somebody. You're saying that,
Speaker 1: like essentially you're just like sitting in the dating and
Speaker 1: being like, how do I feel right now? Like what
Speaker 1: is my nervous system doing? What is my vibe right now?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, exactly, yeap, And you're discovering not getting in
Speaker 2: my head and creating a story as to who this
Speaker 2: person is or who they could be in the future,
Speaker 2: really trying.
Speaker 3: To like live like right now week by week?
Speaker 2: When am I doing? You know, what plans do I have?
Speaker 2: What do I want to learn more about this person?
Speaker 2: And just it's it's kind of it feels unusual to
Speaker 2: me based on how so many other people around me
Speaker 2: have dated. It's so easy with women just to get
Speaker 2: so wrapped up in it. But I've had to like
Speaker 2: like hold myself back. You know, you want to talk
Speaker 2: all day, You want to like dive right in and
Speaker 2: FaceTime and like interact constantly and have all those answers.
Speaker 2: But it's it just kind of in a way, it
Speaker 2: takes away from actually dating. When you're doing like NonStop texting,
Speaker 2: you're not getting to know them like in person.
Speaker 1: I could and then you I do think sometimes when
Speaker 1: you pour so much in so fast that but like
Speaker 1: it starts to be mechanical in that you're like wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning, good morning, go through the day,
Speaker 1: then at night good night. Like it becomes almost like
Speaker 1: robotic in that I have to do these check ins
Speaker 1: because this relationship needs that. I don't know, like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, if you're not doing these things,
Speaker 1: then it's like, am I progressing this thing fast enough?
Speaker 3: Right? And it's an expectation.
Speaker 2: I think that progresses a relationship too fast, right, you know.
Speaker 3: I think it's fine to check.
Speaker 2: In, you know in the mornings or at nights if
Speaker 2: you've ha been having a conversation, you know, say you're
Speaker 2: going to bed and good night. But if the conversation's
Speaker 2: already kind of dwindled down, I'm just gonna go to bed,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I don't need to announce it.
Speaker 1: How long do you think you have to date someone
Speaker 1: before you can make it like an official, Like I
Speaker 1: know there's no hard and fast rule, but in your mind,
Speaker 1: can you date someone for a month and then be exclusive.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done it way sooner than that before though, Okay,
Speaker 2: And I think I've just learned that there's just so
Speaker 2: much more to learn about a person beyond that first month.
Speaker 2: And I think it looks different in different scenarios, you know,
Speaker 2: like with you, you are able to kind of spend
Speaker 2: time with someone in a more more frequent capacity and
Speaker 2: a more measured capacity.
Speaker 1: So it makes sense. Yeah, No, I think my job,
Speaker 1: my life, I have a different the woman I'm dating.
Speaker 1: We have, we work alongside each other. We might I
Speaker 1: see her every single day, we work out together many times.
Speaker 1: Like I You're right, like I have opportunities to spend
Speaker 1: time with her that kind of fast forward things, probably
Speaker 1: faster than maybe you would because your job is a
Speaker 1: little different than mine, your responsibilities, you live further away.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, all those things come into play. I
Speaker 1: do think what's interesting is with this relationship. At the
Speaker 1: very beginning, I was very very clear on what I want,
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for, and I found myself almost like
Speaker 1: going into it like the I don't want to say
Speaker 1: it was like a turn off to her, but she's like, damn,
Speaker 1: I hope I fit into this fucking box that you've
Speaker 1: created that is like this or the highway essentially. But
Speaker 1: I wasn't saying it like that. It was more like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not wasting time. This is what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: I'm not if I see things that aren't going to align,
Speaker 1: We're going to be great friends. But I am not
Speaker 1: pursuing beyond that. Yeah, because I am so clear on
Speaker 1: my what I'm looking for in a partner that it
Speaker 1: doesn't it feels like a waste of time to continue
Speaker 1: down a path that I already see things that aren't
Speaker 1: going to align.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think some of those things may be
Speaker 2: bigger than others. You know, there might be small and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh.
Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know, you might notice little,
Speaker 2: small things, but you don't let that be the reason
Speaker 2: to take off because it is hard to find good people.
Speaker 2: And I feel really lucky right now that I've I've
Speaker 2: met some really good people totally. And I think it
Speaker 2: also speaks to the fact of, like, you know, for
Speaker 2: years now, I've talked about how small our dating pool is.
Speaker 2: I do think it's really small for sure, but I
Speaker 2: think it's ever changing.
Speaker 1: You know, like people get on there's a constant.
Speaker 2: Right they get on the ass and they get disappointed
Speaker 2: really quick because it's like, well there's no one here.
Speaker 2: You might even swipe through your results within a few days.
Speaker 2: But I've just noticed that, like there's just constantly new
Speaker 2: people joining, you know, it ebbs and flows, and it's
Speaker 2: it's more so of like the time that you put
Speaker 2: into it. On top of that, just being heavily aware
Speaker 2: of who you're communicating with, because I have noticed even
Speaker 2: like I'm talking with people that have turned out to
Speaker 2: be catfish, you know, and I feel like I'm very
Speaker 2: hyper aware of that situation. It's still it still happens.
Speaker 1: You can tell what people's like. And it's not to
Speaker 1: say everybody has different things that they value, different value
Speaker 1: systems of like what's important to them, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: make what's important to you better than what's important to me.
Speaker 1: It's just different. Like I think you are a very
Speaker 1: very high caliber person and you and I probably value
Speaker 1: different things different ways, and that, right, that's great, But
Speaker 1: I think like you can tell early on sort of
Speaker 1: if things aren't going to align, even based on how
Speaker 1: people mother or what kind of future you know, they
Speaker 1: see if they do have children. One of the things
Speaker 1: that Nikki and I definitely align on is we aren't
Speaker 1: looking for this like retirement without our children. We want
Speaker 1: to be with them. We like them the best. We
Speaker 1: would rather probably pick an evening with them than our friends.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like there, but there's plenty of people
Speaker 1: My parents would say that is never what they thought.
Speaker 1: They they loved my sister and I, but they they
Speaker 1: that wasn't their life wasn't going to be about grandchildren
Speaker 1: and us. Even though they love us and they want
Speaker 1: us and they love their grandchildren, it's just a different philosophy.
Speaker 1: And I think, like, I want a partner who wants
Speaker 1: to travel to see the kids or you know, create
Speaker 1: experiences that we can all be together. That is very,
Speaker 1: very very important to me. Yeah, and so I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not going to waste time if some but he's like, man,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get these kids out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm ready to be an empty nester. Well, you're gonna
Speaker 1: hate your life with me because that's not what it's
Speaker 1: going to look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, that's something I think a lot about
Speaker 2: a lot too, is like wherever I live, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need I want space for my kids to be.
Speaker 2: I don't care how old they are, you know, I
Speaker 2: want to be able to wherever they are either move
Speaker 2: there or be able to visit frequently. Totally so, And
Speaker 2: I think that's just it. It's like it's one of
Speaker 2: the difficulties. One of the hurdles that comes with dating
Speaker 2: later in life is that you know, you're not starting
Speaker 2: out fresh with like no kids in the bank.
Speaker 3: You know, if.
Speaker 2: You both might have kids, one of you might not
Speaker 2: have kids. Do you want to not only be with
Speaker 2: me forever? But these kids are going to be forever totally. Sure,
Speaker 2: they're going to college in a few years, but they're
Speaker 2: still going to be very much around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think it's like you have to figure
Speaker 1: out there's like things about people that you'll learn. People
Speaker 1: they're social butterflies. They get a lot of like oxytocin
Speaker 1: or whatever the dopamine from like going out, and like
Speaker 1: I get some, but like I wouldn't say that's like
Speaker 1: my dream life is to be my parents go out
Speaker 1: four nights a week. They go out four nights a week,
Speaker 1: They go to dinners, they socialize. They have parties four
Speaker 1: nights out of the week. When I go visit them,
Speaker 1: I am exhausted. Yeah, and so I don't want that
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 3: That's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot. My mom is starting to say it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot. And so they you know, they
Speaker 1: have certain things that they do. And I always say
Speaker 1: when I'm visiting, like, I'm too tired for life.
Speaker 3: For my elderly parents.
Speaker 1: I'm too tired for my elderly parents. I want to
Speaker 1: I really enjoy dinner in front of the TV and
Speaker 1: going to bed early. I think I just do. Like
Speaker 1: it's embarrassing, but like that is a value of mine
Speaker 1: that like, I don't I want to mess with somebody
Speaker 1: who also likes to do that because I'm not looking
Speaker 1: to have a highly stimulating evening all the time.
Speaker 2: But I mean that's not unheard of obviously, Like youah
Speaker 2: found a lot of people who want to do that
Speaker 2: same thing and seem very happy with it.
Speaker 1: I can make it really fun, y'all.
Speaker 3: Yes, sure, I can make an eight thirty bed time
Speaker 3: or so fun.
Speaker 1: Actually, the bedtime part's the fun part that you do
Speaker 1: like a that's where the magic, that's where the magic
Speaker 1: really happens. Sure, I actually do do a facial routine
Speaker 1: and then I try to be quiet on the set
Speaker 1: by nine pm.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, last night I told read what I want for
Speaker 1: my birthday is I wanted him to grill a steaks
Speaker 1: and then just let me quietly. This was last night,
Speaker 1: not my actual birthday. Yeah, but last time, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want you to grill me a stake and just
Speaker 1: like allow me to watch the show and like.
Speaker 3: Peace, like, don't ask me any questions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he would don't have to sign anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my kids have been in school for what three days,
Speaker 2: and every day there's like a pile of papers to
Speaker 2: Oh my god, no, so might haven't even gone back
Speaker 2: to school yet.
Speaker 3: It's wild.
Speaker 1: It's totally wild. But yeah, tell me some ways that
Speaker 1: like somebody could align or better yet, tell me how
Speaker 1: somebody really quickly you would know this person is not
Speaker 1: going to align with me.
Speaker 3: Ah man, that's tough, I would. I mean I think
Speaker 3: a big thing is.
Speaker 2: For me now, like the party aspect kind of like yeah,
Speaker 2: on the apps, if I'm seeing someone who is like
Speaker 2: out all the time or it has that appearance, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't really want that anymore, Like I do, I
Speaker 2: want a balance, you know, but I also I mean
Speaker 2: I want a person that can go.
Speaker 3: Out and socialize as well.
Speaker 2: So but I think that's one of those things where
Speaker 2: there's just a lot of questions to be asked that
Speaker 2: you don't know right away. And I think probably the
Speaker 2: biggest thing is their willingness to show up because so
Speaker 2: many people are on these apps. So many people are
Speaker 2: on the apps, and they're they're just on there to
Speaker 2: be on there. They're not they don't want to meet up.
Speaker 2: So when it becomes like a pin pal situation or
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, you know, do you have plans like
Speaker 2: can we meet up for a drink or something? And
Speaker 2: they don't respond or say that they're going to get
Speaker 2: back to me, and then they kind of disappear, I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's not it for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's also just like you should be excited to spend
Speaker 1: time with me, right Like you should be excited. You
Speaker 1: should be looking for a way to find.
Speaker 2: Find the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like.
Speaker 3: That's just it.
Speaker 2: It's like you can find an hour to go have coffee,
Speaker 2: you know, unless you're completely going out of town away whatever.
Speaker 3: Slammed. I don't know but then I'm like, well, why
Speaker 3: are you on the apps?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I agree wholeheart. That would be a very
Speaker 1: that would be a huge ick to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of people on there that well
Speaker 2: what happened if you just said I'm curious why you're
Speaker 2: on here?
Speaker 3: I don't even take it that far. I don't. I
Speaker 3: don't need an answer.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah you could already feel that from them, and
Speaker 1: so you just cut it right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why no response is an answer?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no response is an answer. I also have told
Speaker 1: my kids, like you, I feel this way about everybody.
Speaker 1: I know you've heard me say this. I feel this
Speaker 1: way about you. It is such a privilege to spend
Speaker 1: time like in your orbit, like, and there's only so
Speaker 1: many people who get to have a piece of you,
Speaker 1: So you don't just give it away wildly, Like every
Speaker 1: time you give a piece of your orbit to somebody else,
Speaker 1: you're losing a chance to give it to me, to
Speaker 1: give it to Kaylin, to give it to Bracket, to
Speaker 1: give it to a woman who's really interested in you.
Speaker 1: So I'm not in the business of just whoever wants
Speaker 1: a piece of this come like hang Like, it's just
Speaker 1: I'm beyond that now. Yeah, So it's like, if you're
Speaker 1: not actively excited about me, then I'd rather just not
Speaker 1: even go down the path.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's huge if anyone out there
Speaker 2: is dating and you're dealing with someone who doesn't it
Speaker 2: seems like maybe half interested, they're not engaging.
Speaker 3: I mean it's fine to go like I.
Speaker 2: Think a day or so without texting someone, especially prior
Speaker 2: to meeting, but yeah, they're delaying meeting you or making
Speaker 2: excuses about how they're so busy. They're not like, don't
Speaker 2: chase them.
Speaker 1: Don't just chase them, be done.
Speaker 2: Like you, you know, if I really wanted to meet someone,
Speaker 2: I could find the time.
Speaker 1: And if you can't find the time, then you're probably
Speaker 1: not someone who can start a relationship because you're not
Speaker 1: gonna have the time that it takes early on to
Speaker 1: create that trust to even build something. If there's no
Speaker 1: time to find an hour, then call me when you
Speaker 1: do have time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, stay off the apps in the meantime.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also think like people misread like, well, have
Speaker 1: you ever heard of like John Gottman talk about like
Speaker 1: bids for connection, where it's like in relationships, people have
Speaker 1: bids for connection. But even like when you're first meeting someone,
Speaker 1: there's like bids for connection where it's like I might
Speaker 1: just bring up something silly to you. That's like I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to have a thing, like have a common
Speaker 1: ground with you. Maybe I'll bring up a book you
Speaker 1: mentioned or something. It's a bid for me to you
Speaker 1: to connect. And like, I think when people are first dating,
Speaker 1: you do a lot of that. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: like cues to like I want to connect with you.
Speaker 1: And I think if you're doing the cues and you're
Speaker 1: not getting back that same energy, you know it's happening.
Speaker 1: Stop making excuses for people, Like I think that wears
Speaker 1: me out when I hear my friends make excuses, Well
Speaker 1: they she was working. I know she was working until
Speaker 1: really late. It's like, well did she go to bed
Speaker 1: that night, because if she did, she had a few
Speaker 1: minutes to say, you know, I just got home, I
Speaker 1: wiped out, I'll call you first thing in the morning,
Speaker 1: or I'm excited to talk to you tomorrow. Right, It's
Speaker 1: not hard.
Speaker 2: And yeah, Like I think that's another thing is like
Speaker 2: some people that I have dated in the past would
Speaker 2: be like, oh, I fell asleep, I didn't yah, Now
Speaker 2: you didn't just fall asleep like we were. We've had
Speaker 2: a pattern that we've been following. And then it's one
Speaker 2: of those things too where they keep doing that and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I feel like it's a like if you've
Speaker 2: if you've set up the pattern to say good night
Speaker 2: every night, you're in that stage of the relationship, and
Speaker 2: then you stop, you don't do it. It's it's like,
Speaker 2: I know, you don't just fall asleep face first on
Speaker 2: your couch.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and it's you just took away something that I've
Speaker 1: come to expect as part of our dance of getting
Speaker 1: to know each other, right, and that is that is
Speaker 1: a nick to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in a way, I think it's a way
Speaker 2: for the other person to push you away a.
Speaker 3: Little bit and also try to gain a little bit
Speaker 3: of control. Mm hmmm. And I mean in the in
Speaker 3: a low key way.
Speaker 2: I think that's underlying way that's what's happening, because it
Speaker 2: does put you off kilter a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, stabilized, feeling good.
Speaker 1: No, And I think that is a it's a cruelty
Speaker 1: in my mind, Like I don't, I don't it's abuse,
Speaker 1: It's I don't want to say it's abusive. Because that's
Speaker 1: like a stretch. But it's like if you have somebody
Speaker 1: stressed at night worrying. I'm gonna tell you a quick story.
Speaker 1: This happened early on what I was dating that I
Speaker 1: don't even remember. I thought I said good night. I
Speaker 1: was out, and I actually did. I thought say good
Speaker 1: night and then went to sleep. I do go to
Speaker 1: bed earlier than most people. Well, this person that I
Speaker 1: was dating couldn't contact me, like she couldn't get in
Speaker 1: touch with me because I was asleep. I truly was.
Speaker 1: And the next morning I saw where she was, like
Speaker 1: our dynamic had been good night, good night, and she
Speaker 1: was so worried that she was like I almost like
Speaker 1: came over there like I'm I and I literally was
Speaker 1: like God, first of all, you're amazing. Second of all,
Speaker 1: I am so sorry, Like I agree with everything you're saying.
Speaker 1: You're not crazy. We did set up that dynamic and
Speaker 1: I somehow missed it or I thought I sent it
Speaker 1: and I didn't, And like I took that on as like.
Speaker 4: You you came to expect something that you absolutely should
Speaker 4: expect from me bare minimum, And I am so sorry,
Speaker 4: and she was like it's fine. I'm like it's actually
Speaker 4: not fine, and like, I how can I like make
Speaker 4: this up to you? Like I hate that that happened
Speaker 4: because I know that anxiety and I don't want you
Speaker 4: to feel that at.
Speaker 1: All for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the right way to respond, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like if someone brings something to you like that,
Speaker 2: you honor what they felt.
Speaker 1: Right, and she was right to feel it. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times people would be as like, wow, Jesus,
Speaker 1: just because I didn't text you, And that to me
Speaker 1: is like I should have and I somehow thought I
Speaker 1: did and I didn't, And I don't know, Like, I
Speaker 1: think I agree with you. There's like a dance that
Speaker 1: you can come to expect, a dance in a friendship.
Speaker 1: If I text you at noon and I don't hear
Speaker 1: from you till eight o'clock at night, I don't I
Speaker 1: know our our thing. I know you're gonna be like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm slammed. I'll call you later. Yeah, it takes two seconds.
Speaker 1: You respect me enough, so do that. Yeah, And I think,
Speaker 1: like I don't. I think you know, when you're on
Speaker 1: the side of a new thing where someone is not
Speaker 1: giving you that respect, you know it.
Speaker 2: And I think you know it's kind of like a
Speaker 2: fine dance kind of what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 2: As far as like there is those early stages where
Speaker 2: you haven't established that yet. You know, it's not a
Speaker 2: good night text every day, it's not a good morning
Speaker 2: text every day.
Speaker 3: You're not in that stage yet.
Speaker 2: But once you kind of set that expectation and that's happened,
Speaker 2: you know, let's say for three weeks in a row,
Speaker 2: and then it stops, like that is unsettling. It's very unsettling,
Speaker 2: and it feels like one of those first little things
Speaker 2: that happens before things start.
Speaker 1: To you know, yeah cut. And it could be that
Speaker 1: they're feeling like, oh my god, I all of a
Speaker 1: sudden have this responsibility to this person. How did I
Speaker 1: wake up in this relationship? But it's like those are
Speaker 1: the things that maybe they you talk to someone about
Speaker 1: I'm feeling this weird, like what.
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: It could be like a subconscious thing for them too,
Speaker 2: you know, they're like like I am tired, I just
Speaker 2: want to go to bed. I don't want to send
Speaker 2: that text. I don't want to set that expectation anymore
Speaker 2: that I have been setting. But instead of verbalizing that,
Speaker 2: they just don't send the text.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what are there things like early on, because
Speaker 1: we talked to people a lot that email in they're
Speaker 1: new in relationships, what are other things you can think
Speaker 1: of that are like micro disrespects.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say this is this is a micro disrespect,
Speaker 2: but it is become a bit of like.
Speaker 3: A yellow flag.
Speaker 2: To me is if people are like leading with very heavy,
Speaker 2: heavy sexual conversations.
Speaker 3: Then it's I don't know, I don't like.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be like I get it, it is hot,
Speaker 2: for sure, but I think sometimes when it's like leaned
Speaker 2: a little too heavily into, it becomes a bit of
Speaker 2: like a weapon, like oh interesting to wait to reel
Speaker 2: you in, especially if it's coming off of like a
Speaker 2: situation that felt uncomfortable, you know, like but now look
Speaker 2: at this or now I say this, so you're back
Speaker 2: in it, you know. And again mild yellow flag, not
Speaker 2: like glaring like I don't want to do this, but yeah,
Speaker 2: although it is glaring red. If it's like we haven't
Speaker 2: met yet and you're doing that stuff, I'm like, peace out,
Speaker 2: like you don't know me.
Speaker 1: And green flags too, it's like people that I remember,
Speaker 1: like early on in this relationship, her wanting me to
Speaker 1: meet her friends. Like she felt like that felt good
Speaker 1: to her, and it also felt good to me, And
Speaker 1: I feel like that made me feel good, like that
Speaker 1: I was such a priority that it's like I can't
Speaker 1: wait for my friends to meet you, or the effort
Speaker 1: was so strong to make that happen that I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like I felt like that was a green flag of like,
Speaker 1: this is somebody who's clearly investing in me, and I
Speaker 1: think that's attractive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a very big green flag.
Speaker 2: Another green flag, I feel like it's just pure communication,
Speaker 2: you know, sending a text, you know, maybe once a day,
Speaker 2: just checking in that kind of stuff, Engaging, asking questions,
Speaker 2: remembering stuff that you've talked about before.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a big one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like asking like oh how did that thing go?
Speaker 2: Like that to me is huge if you remember something
Speaker 2: that I told you that.
Speaker 1: Actually just happened to a friend of mine where she's like,
Speaker 1: I had this I was starting a new job, huge
Speaker 1: thing happening for me, and then this person like called
Speaker 1: me with all this drama and like other shit, and
Speaker 1: all she was thinking is, you know, I am so
Speaker 1: anxious about this new position I'm starting, and you bring
Speaker 1: me this. It's like such a tone deaf yeah scenario,
Speaker 1: like is today the day for this thing that you've
Speaker 1: got to bring to me? Yeah, when you know I'm stressed.
Speaker 2: Did they realized or like, like did they forget that
Speaker 2: the job?
Speaker 1: Oh? I think they just they're so they were they
Speaker 1: knew the job was happening. They were so focused on
Speaker 1: their own shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like that to me feels red flaggy.
Speaker 1: But I think you also have to like ask for
Speaker 1: the thing. Like one thing that I've been asked is like, hey,
Speaker 1: can you FaceTime me? Like can you FaceTime me? And
Speaker 1: it's like I love that because it's just like an
Speaker 1: immediate you're connected for real versus like talking on the phone.
Speaker 1: You're kind of connected, texting you're not really connected, but like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you have five minutes to FaceTime me? That just
Speaker 1: told me a million things about you. You told me
Speaker 1: that you want to see me. It told me that
Speaker 1: you're bidding for connection with me. Like I love that.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's a very big green flag.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's kind of something that I've heard too
Speaker 2: about you know, we do get so heavily into texting,
Speaker 2: even voice memos I've noticed, like, while guilty, I feel
Speaker 2: like they're a great way to connect, but I'm noticing
Speaker 2: that sometimes I'm like, I'm listening to it, but then
Speaker 2: when i'm messaging back, I'm forgetting half of what was said.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of things that I.
Speaker 2: Don't even respond to that this person said, and it
Speaker 2: kind of gets lit.
Speaker 1: Do you like it? Because it's like, like, I did
Speaker 1: it today to you and Sam because I Sam Jones,
Speaker 1: not my Sam, but because I felt like I looked
Speaker 1: like the jerk in the conversation that we were having
Speaker 1: this morning. I looked like the dick, and so I
Speaker 1: wanted you to hear my tone around what I was
Speaker 1: saying versus like it. When I read back the text
Speaker 1: I wrote, I'm like, wow, if this ever goes to print,
Speaker 1: my parents say, never put something in writing. You don't
Speaker 1: want people to read this.
Speaker 3: If this goes into discovery, rude, I'm so fucked.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm going to do a voice
Speaker 1: memo so they can hear my tone, but also so
Speaker 1: this thing goes away and doesn't end up on the news.
Speaker 2: But it's true though, because sometimes I do voice memos
Speaker 2: for that reason.
Speaker 3: Sometimes too, because I realize.
Speaker 2: I'm like, the way that I'm texting does not sound good,
Speaker 2: and so I'm like tone matters.
Speaker 3: So as I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying this is what I mean, not like visually what
Speaker 2: you're reading, you know, but like there's levels to it.
Speaker 2: It's like texting is like bottom of the barrel voice memos,
Speaker 2: tear up phone call another, tear up FaceTime, top tier communication.
Speaker 1: Top tier. If you want to FaceTime me, I know
Speaker 1: you're interested. Yeah, so I think that's a good way
Speaker 1: to show someone a green flag. But I think also
Speaker 1: just bids for connection period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like responding to the Instagram story they send you yes,
Speaker 2: like a song whatever, like respond to it with kindness and.
Speaker 3: Don't just like thumbs up or hard or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I do believe that these like new relationships are
Speaker 1: they're fragile, and they like they need attention otherwise.
Speaker 2: Attention, time to grow, time to build a foundations. Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm I am just doing the complete
Speaker 2: opposite of what I feel like I've expected out of
Speaker 2: a relationship, which is for it just to instantly be
Speaker 2: a connection, instantly for me to know all the things.
Speaker 2: And I'm taking a beat and I'm waiting to see
Speaker 2: what comes about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 5: I think two like you and I have learned so
Speaker 5: much through the years, and not just our own experiences,
Speaker 5: but we are frontlines of a lot of people's experiences
Speaker 5: because of the podcast.
Speaker 1: So I do feel like I've gotten to a place
Speaker 1: of like, not only with her, am I able to
Speaker 1: say this is exactly what I needed, exactly what I'm
Speaker 1: looking for and a partner. But I think it's also
Speaker 1: like in this particular relationship, I feel this sense of
Speaker 1: like I haven't I've always shown up the best way
Speaker 1: I could, and so I haven't done anything yet that
Speaker 1: I'm like ashamed of or that I'm like, it's still
Speaker 1: new enough. I will give me a minute. I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'll give some terrible.
Speaker 3: There's still been time, there's time.
Speaker 1: But I do think also like I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: something to be said about when you do it. I
Speaker 1: don't I feel like this sense of like I'm I'm
Speaker 1: better now. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how
Speaker 1: else to say it, Like I've just the skills.
Speaker 2: I learned are were paying off? YEA, Yeah, I love that. Yep, Well,
Speaker 2: I have a botox appointment to run too.
Speaker 1: Damn. I was thinking you look so pretty, you don't
Speaker 1: need it, but that's when you go, right, thank you this.
Speaker 3: I haven't been in a year, so it's about time.
Speaker 1: Whoa okay, yeah, all right, well enjoying. Are you coming
Speaker 1: to the city for it or you're doing it there?
Speaker 3: I'm doing it here. I'm trying someone new, so there
Speaker 3: you find out.
Speaker 1: If she's good. All right, I love it. Good luck
Speaker 1: to you, Thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 3: I want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast.
Speaker 2: Rate us and write a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Speaker 1: We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,
Speaker 1: email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Melissa M. E.
Speaker 4: L I.
Speaker 1: S A and Ali A L l I at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles