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Speaker 2: The legal team for Luigi Mangioni is standing up for
Speaker 2: themselves and not for their client. Apparently they were in
Speaker 2: negotiations for a plea deal for this guy. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: this is an opener shoutcase. It's caught on tape the murder.
Speaker 2: He put the names of the people he wanted to
Speaker 2: kill and his issues literally on the shell casings. This
Speaker 2: is the Judge Weiberg. This is the legal definition of
Speaker 2: premeditated murder. You cannot claim insanity when you have that
Speaker 2: kind of pre planning and that kind of execution, no
Speaker 2: pun intended. And his legal team is now not going
Speaker 2: to try to save his life because you know why,
Speaker 2: they want the exposure as Fernando told us off the air,
Speaker 2: they want the toda. I say that because the legal
Speaker 2: team is doing this. I think that they're trying to
Speaker 2: they would like the legal team wants to get exposure
Speaker 2: and more money and names for themselves and would rather
Speaker 2: use him as a sacrificial land.
Speaker 3: That's I'm nottand.
Speaker 4: I understand we just woke up, Professor. He did, and
Speaker 4: he's on the air.
Speaker 2: Okay, Professor Dershowitz, I feel free to weigh in on this.
Speaker 2: We brought you in to talk about the Supreme Court
Speaker 2: decisions yesterday. But I'm not loving this defense team of
Speaker 2: Luigi Mangioni. I don't think they're acting in his best
Speaker 2: injurest interest.
Speaker 5: I don't know how you would act in his best
Speaker 5: interest at this point. There's nothing you can do except
Speaker 5: try to get a reduced sentence. Uh.
Speaker 6: And he has nobody to turn in.
Speaker 5: You know, when I told Criminal of the Years, I
Speaker 5: would start by saying to my students, if you ever
Speaker 5: want to commit a crime, the first rule is commit
Speaker 5: it with somebody more important than you, so you can
Speaker 5: turn them man, and they can't turn them. And you
Speaker 5: know he didn't do it, and they got him on tape.
Speaker 5: They have him with a gun pointed to the guy
Speaker 5: to have the names. The poor defense lawyers, they have
Speaker 5: nothing to do at this point. My feeling is that
Speaker 5: they wanted to put in this defense emotional whatever and
Speaker 5: the clients that know so. I'm not agreeing with your
Speaker 5: guests that these lawyers are acting in their own health
Speaker 5: rather than the client.
Speaker 3: It's Richard Warberg. I absolutely agree. That's why I asked
Speaker 3: the question. I think that he wants political I think
Speaker 3: Man Jong wants political theater. He's trying to make a
Speaker 3: public forum out of this for his views. That's my type,
Speaker 3: and the lawyers were trying to cut an ideals.
Speaker 5: I understand that he has nothing else in his favor.
Speaker 5: He has a lot of people supporting him, and I
Speaker 5: think his feeling is if he goes to trial and he.
Speaker 6: Gets a lot of supportive trial, who knows, maybe something
Speaker 6: good we'll go.
Speaker 5: Down the line, Maybe his time in prison will be easier.
Speaker 5: But I do think that it was he who made
Speaker 5: the decision. I'm not sure that that a trial benefits
Speaker 5: him rather than a plea that makes the case.
Speaker 3: If he has a mental incompetency plea, then what he's
Speaker 3: doing is undermining his political agenda, his ideological attack. That's
Speaker 3: why he wants the political theater.
Speaker 5: I agree with that. I think even having submitted a
Speaker 5: letter saying he was going to plead emotional instability probably
Speaker 5: undercut his political and he may have seen the reaction
Speaker 5: to it, But in any event, he's I think, has
Speaker 5: seen this case from the beginning his political theater. Tragically,
Speaker 5: it took the human life of a father of children,
Speaker 5: and it sent a terrible, terrible message in society. You know,
Speaker 5: it's a message that we're hearing in so many different contexts.
Speaker 5: Murderers are being praised, whether they're murderers from Hamas or
Speaker 5: has Ballah or Iran, or whether they're individual murderers. Today,
Speaker 5: they are crazy. We see people out there who support
Speaker 5: murder and who don't support innocent people and decency. I
Speaker 5: think we saw it in the election in New York.
Speaker 6: I think we're seeing it in the Manngie one case.
Speaker 6: I think we're seeing it in.
Speaker 5: A lot of different contexts, and it's changing our society
Speaker 5: for the worst.
Speaker 6: I think these are all symptoms.
Speaker 5: Of a terrible change in our society toward moving in
Speaker 5: toward accepting violence as acceptable. We have members of people
Speaker 5: being nominated now to Congress who believe that Hamas was
Speaker 5: correct in killing twelve hundred people and capturing two hundred
Speaker 5: and fifty people, and they're.
Speaker 6: Being elected to Congress. We have people being elected to
Speaker 6: Congress to the Senate who wear a death tattoo for
Speaker 6: years and years. I mean, something is sick about our
Speaker 6: society and we have to move that in the right
Speaker 6: direction or we're going to.
Speaker 5: Be in real trouble. It goes way beyond Mangione, and
Speaker 5: it goes way beyond Tuesday's election.
Speaker 3: Alan. This is a case coming up for decision in
Speaker 3: the next few days the Supreme Court. It's a transender case.
Speaker 3: It's the West Virginia case about the ban of having
Speaker 3: men being in women's sports. What are your thoughts about
Speaker 3: that case and how's that going to turn out.
Speaker 5: I think the Trump administration will probably win that case
Speaker 5: and probably lose the case involving birthright citizenship. So I
Speaker 5: think we're going to see a split in the last
Speaker 5: few days of the court. This has been a very
Speaker 5: very significant court term with a lot of important decisions,
Speaker 5: most of them favoring Trump, but not all of them
Speaker 5: favoring Trump. And we're going to see a movement toward
Speaker 5: packing the court if the Democrats seek get control of
Speaker 5: the House, And what about the try to pack the court.
Speaker 6: And they'll fail, but they'll try.
Speaker 3: I agree with that too. What about this case involving
Speaker 3: presidential power to remove people from agencies? What do you
Speaker 3: think that's going to do?
Speaker 5: I think the President will prevail on that one as well.
Speaker 5: And speaking of removing people, there's.
Speaker 6: Also that's interesting. I hope test case that's going to
Speaker 6: go on is this federal judge who was having sex
Speaker 6: in her chambers alas that her law courts hurt it,
Speaker 6: and there's a movement to impeach her. And I think
Speaker 6: it presents a very interesting test case because a lot
Speaker 6: of people think that in order to impeach a federal judge,
Speaker 6: you have to prove that they committed crimes like treason, bribery,
Speaker 6: or have the crimes and misdemeanors. As I argued and
Speaker 6: the Senate in favor of President Trump, I don't think
Speaker 6: that's the criteria for judges.
Speaker 5: Judges are appointed for life and then it says during
Speaker 5: good behavior. So I think if you can demonstrate lack
Speaker 5: of good behavior and having sex in your chambers and
Speaker 5: screaming loud and then lying about it sounds to me
Speaker 5: like it satisfies the criteria of not good behavior. So
Speaker 5: I think they should try to impeach this judge and
Speaker 5: test the criteria for what it takes to impeach a judge,
Speaker 5: because I think it's different criteria than what it takes
Speaker 5: to impeach the president. After all, the p I think
Speaker 5: it's selected every four years, you know, like the president
Speaker 5: throws the bomb out, but the judge is there for life,
Speaker 5: and if they engage in bad behavior, they shouldn't continue
Speaker 5: to be able to be on the bench.
Speaker 2: And I believe it was with another officer of the court.
Speaker 2: I mean, this wasn't just like some pol Yeah yeahl
Speaker 2: So that's also a conflict of a bunch of employment
Speaker 2: stuff on and on down the line. Let's talk about
Speaker 2: these decisions that did come down yesterday, including the one
Speaker 2: that says that while you're applying for asylum, the court
Speaker 2: said that we can continue or we can at least
Speaker 2: keep these folks on the other side of the US border.
Speaker 2: That seems like common sense to me. We have so
Speaker 2: many people running around with pending asylum cases and we
Speaker 2: lose track of it. Were you surprised by the decision
Speaker 2: or was there anything in there that didn't that didn't
Speaker 2: make sense to you. And then one more thing, the
Speaker 2: continuing hissy fit within the court between some of the judges.
Speaker 2: We had, so to Mayor reading off her decision, her
Speaker 2: dissenting a decision in this Hawaii gun case, and Justice
Speaker 2: Alito visually making all kinds of facial expressions showing his exasperation.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I know, Justine Luido, I like him
Speaker 6: very much. He's an expressive guy. You know, I grew
Speaker 6: up with a lot.
Speaker 5: Of Italian Americans.
Speaker 6: They don't pull their feelings back.
Speaker 5: And when you put them on the bench and you
Speaker 5: get a judge who is not supposed to have read
Speaker 5: her full opinion didn't give any notice of it, I
Speaker 5: can see why he got a little annoyed. On the
Speaker 5: issue of keeping people seeking asylum outside. I have a
Speaker 5: split view in that I think legally it's correct. Constitutionally
Speaker 5: it's correct. The president has the power to do that.
Speaker 5: I wish she.
Speaker 6: Didn't, because you know, I'm still.
Speaker 5: Somebody who thinks very hard about the nine hundred Jews
Speaker 5: on the boat Saint Louis who were trying to come
Speaker 5: into the United States to escape the the s chambers
Speaker 5: and President Roosevelt kept them out and they all went
Speaker 5: back to Germany and half of them died in death camps.
Speaker 6: So you know, when you have.
Speaker 5: A really, really strong case for asylum, that you're going
Speaker 5: to die if you're not allowed in the country. My
Speaker 5: feeling on the merits is that I wish they would
Speaker 5: let them in the country. Constitutionally, I think the court
Speaker 5: was absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Are they though, really? I mean, are what percentage would
Speaker 2: you say of asylum seekers in the United States are
Speaker 2: facing a situation? I mean, granted that was a very
Speaker 2: unique situation during the Holocaust, but how many what percentage
Speaker 2: of current asylum seekers are really facing that kind of
Speaker 2: human power?
Speaker 5: Well, if I were a president, what I would do
Speaker 5: is I would have a two step process.
Speaker 6: If you can demonstrate that your.
Speaker 5: Life really is at stake, if you're not allowed in
Speaker 5: the country, I'll let you in. But if you're just
Speaker 5: seeking asylum for reasons of helping your family and delay
Speaker 5: and change wouldn't make any real difference. So I would
Speaker 5: have a two step process and allow an asylum seeker
Speaker 5: to make the case that his life is really at stake.
Speaker 5: But you know that's up to the legislature. They can
Speaker 5: do that, and it's up to the president. It's not
Speaker 5: up to the courts to As Justice Ginsburg said when
Speaker 5: she was on the court, the Supreme Court is I
Speaker 5: have a roving commission to do good or to do justice.
Speaker 5: They must comply with Article you know three of the Constitutions.
Speaker 5: Basically that says you need to have a case in controversy.
Speaker 5: And the court has narrow limited jurisdiction. They're not there
Speaker 5: to just do good things. So to my ear, I
Speaker 5: think has a different conception of the court.
Speaker 6: And I understand her conception, but it's not what the
Speaker 6: Constitution said out I.
Speaker 7: Think, professor, this is Fernando Matteo. How are you today?
Speaker 5: Great? And you I'm doing great.
Speaker 7: Always a pleasure to speak to you. Enlightened and you
Speaker 7: bring such an incredible energy to the show every time
Speaker 7: you're on. My question to you is what's going to
Speaker 7: happen with countries like the Dominican Republic when all the
Speaker 7: Haitians get deported there and then they try to cross
Speaker 7: the border over to the Dominican Republic. You know, these
Speaker 7: are countries that are these are islands that are struggling,
Speaker 7: although the economy and Dominican Republic is very good. But
Speaker 7: you know they're fighting the invasion of the Haitians coming in.
Speaker 7: And believe me, I think every Dominican has some Haitian
Speaker 7: in them. Okay, because we're in Ireland, things happen, right, and.
Speaker 5: Great things, great things, great people have come from both
Speaker 5: those islands. Yes, I mean, think about baseball today, with
Speaker 5: that the Dominican Republican it would be a much American sport.
Speaker 5: In fact, you may have heard recently a group of
Speaker 5: black leaders complained that there were too many Central Americans
Speaker 5: in baseball and not enough genuine blacks. I mean, this
Speaker 5: is what happens when you have DEI diversity. I always
Speaker 5: think what would have happened to the New York Knicks
Speaker 5: if they were subject to THEI. They'd had to have
Speaker 5: two Irish players, three Italian players, a Jewish player.
Speaker 6: They'd have finished last. You know, you do it on meritocracy,
Speaker 6: you do it on the merits, and on the merits.
Speaker 5: The Knicks had a you know, dominantly black team better
Speaker 5: as all basketball players do, and they did great.
Speaker 4: Some breaking news from ABC I guess television News voting
Speaker 4: machine company drops one billion dollar defamation suit against Mike Linda.
Speaker 5: Any good, but they bankrupt the guy. And also these
Speaker 5: you need malice to bring a suit. And and Mike,
Speaker 5: whatever you might say about him, is a believer.
Speaker 6: He honestly believes it.
Speaker 5: And I think he you know, I don't think the
Speaker 5: court could satisfy the criteria of malice. So I'm glad
Speaker 5: they dropped it.
Speaker 6: Let Mike continue to sell his pillows. And you know,
Speaker 6: you can agree with him, you can disagree with him.
Speaker 5: I've represented him briefly in some matters in Arizona, and
Speaker 5: he's a true, true believer, and.
Speaker 6: You know, that's what makes this country go around.
Speaker 5: Speaking of which, one point I want to make. It's
Speaker 5: going to be July fourth soon, and I have a
Speaker 5: July fourth book coming out of quote Founding Fathers and
Speaker 5: One Jewish Mother, and it's a coffee table book with
Speaker 5: beautiful pictures of the original documents of the American Revolution
Speaker 5: and Israel. And it shows the incredible comparison between the
Speaker 5: founders of America, you know, Washington, Madison, Hamilton, and the
Speaker 5: founders of Israel, Hurtzel, Bengurian golda Mayir. So I think
Speaker 5: if you need a gift for somebody for July fourth.
Speaker 2: You can get it on Amazon and the title is
Speaker 2: Founding father What is it again? The titles everyone knows.
Speaker 5: Founding Fathers and One Jewish mother Goldimeyer being the Jewish mother.
Speaker 2: Who came to Israel from the Ukraine by way of
Speaker 2: Milwaukee and Milwaukee, resident.
Speaker 5: Of Milwaukee, and she served me tea in her house
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy after I smuggled her a carton of
Speaker 5: Lucky Strike cigarette.
Speaker 6: I didn't know that they killed.
Speaker 5: But Arthur Goldberg, for whom I work, was a close
Speaker 5: friend of hers when she lived in Milwaukee and he
Speaker 5: lived in Chicago. And when I went to Israel to
Speaker 5: do an interview, he asked me if I would smuggle
Speaker 5: a carton of Lucky Strikes. I put it in my socks.
Speaker 6: I evaded Israeli security.
Speaker 5: And I probably contributed to her earlier.
Speaker 7: So you're a smuggler. You're a smuggler.
Speaker 2: But in his defense, Oh, this is a great I
Speaker 2: get to defend. I get to defend the great defender,
Speaker 2: Alan Derschwitz, and you're in your defense. Professor Golden Meyer
Speaker 2: was an incredibly persuasive person. Just ask Henry Kissinger, Richard
Speaker 2: Nixon and John F. Kennedy and the great beyond. She
Speaker 2: twisted all their arms very very effectively, Professor j question
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 5: And she was a great, great American, a great Jew,
Speaker 5: a great Israeli, and a great human being.
Speaker 2: Yes and uh at one time the sweetheart of the issue.
Speaker 2: But that's another story. Alan Dersmith, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining us.
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Speaker 5: What the heck is going on here,