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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekingana Show. Josh Neil is back. Josh,

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how you doing?

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Speaker 2: I am nasally congested and that makes me very much

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like the gentleman we're about to talk about today. So

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I'm I'm feeling sympatico with the subject matter.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to talk about Freud here. We're

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going to talk specifically, we're going to read an article

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that Lorraine Gignol wrote back in twenty nineteen and included

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in one of his books. So, if we're talking about Freud,

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is there anything that gives you like, have you ever been?

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What's your credibility to be able to talk about Freud?

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Speaker 2: Well, the graduate school I went to was a heavily

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psychodynamic psychoanalytic program. Most of the people, most of the

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faculty in the psychology the grad program had had that background,

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and so that was most of I mean, most of

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the classes I took to were from a Freudian perspective.

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I'm not a Freudian myself, and most of my career,

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if you want to call it that, what I took

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from Freud was sort of like a a contrarian point

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of view, which is to say, there's there's a couple

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of like. To the extent that people know about Freud,

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they tend to land on a couple on one of

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a few perspectives. One conventional perspective is that, well, he

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wasn't doing real science, so all of it is junk

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if you're in this milieu. One perspective as well, he

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was Jewish, so it's all junk. Or if you're like

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sort of like a like a left winger, then he's

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sort of unimpeachable in a lot of ways. I fall

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somewhere in the middle. I think his work is very

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instructive as an insight into the Jewish not just the

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Jewish mind, but like Jewish communal living, because, as we're

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going to see with his essay, most of his work,

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you could say his work is heavily autobiographical. The concept

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he develops are a direct result of his own experience,

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and he prefigured, he prefigured like the sort of modern

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preoccupation with with like trauma, which is unfortunate because I

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think it was it was. It's an it's now like

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sort of a trite observation to make that a large

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amount of psychological dysfunction, even social dysfunction, is due to

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disruption of of the home, the domestic circumstance early in

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a child's life, whether we're talking about like homosexuality or

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you know, aberrant sexualities in general, they're just statistically they're

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they're the result of dysfunction in the home life early

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on in the kid's life. I also think he's interesting

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just for his like sort of anthropological work, which also

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kind of you have to take him into view what

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what Lourentz argues in this book to kind of understand

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his anthropological work. His his whole idea of like the

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the son's ganging up to kill the father takes a

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different tone when you consider his own personal autobiography and

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and and what his work was about. But also like

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some of his anthropological work, like his book From Moses

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to Monotheism, you know, he's treated as a subversive, especially

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people who get into stuff his his relatives were up to,

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like Edward Burnet's and they there's maybe you could say

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he was an equal opportunity subversive because he undermined the

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Jewish claim to being the first monotheistic people. So I

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think he was an interesting He had an interesting career.

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But what's more interesting is the stuff beneath the surface,

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which we're obviously going to get into today.

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Speaker 1: All Right, so I'm going to start reading. Stop me

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at any time, don't just stop me, don't be you know,

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don't hesitate to stop me. It's not I'm not going

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to be insulted or anything like that. And yeah, so

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this is the title of it. The chapter in the

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book that this is included in is different, but the

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title when he wrote it and it was put on

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uns review was Freud's Sexual Abuse in Bena Breath. So

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I'll start reading stop me whenever. In the last few years,

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there I've been lots of news reports, documentary films, and

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articles about sexual abuse of children in Orthodox Jewish communities.

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In March twenty seventeen, for instance, Haretz reported that the

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Israel Police arrested twenty two ultra Orthodox Jews for sex

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crimes against miners and women, and in July twenty nineteen,

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The Times of Israel reported that the Deputy Health Minister

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Jakov Litzmann was alleged to have improperly intervened to aid

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at least ten sex offenders from Israel's ultra Orthodox community.

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In twenty fifteen, Jewish attorney Michael Lescher wrote sex Abuse,

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Shanda and Concealment in Orthodox Jewish Communities to document, quoting

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the dismal history of how far too many of those

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cases have been assiduously concealed, both from the public and

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from the police. How influential rabbis and community leaders have

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sided with the alleged abusers against their victims. How victims

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and witnesses of sexual abuse have been pressured even threatened,

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not to turn to secular law enforcement for help. How

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autonomous Jewish patrols, displacing the role of official police in

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some large and heavily religious Jewish neighborhoods, have played an

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inglorious part in the history of cot. How some Jewish

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communities have even succeeded in manipulating law enforcement officials to

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protect suspected abusers. This reminds me of the story of

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how Freud, having stumbled upon the widespread reality of child

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abuse among his mostly Jewish clientele, covered it up with

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the theory that all little girls desire their father's penises

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and all little boys dream of screwing their mothers, and

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named his theory after a gentile myth.

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Speaker 2: Well just to well, just just the the bit about

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how the Jewish community will aggressively not even self police,

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but but more of like do run interference between themselves

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and the larger community. There was an there was an

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article like ten years ago in the New York Times

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that was talking about the tendency for the Rabbinical Orthodox

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Jews to ostracize members of their community if they brought

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stories of sexual abuse to the broader, gentile public. So

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I wish I could pull that up. I just there's

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I don't know, I'm not finding it now, but yeah,

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it's just it's it's remarkable. I hesitate to say exactly

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that that sexual abuse or sexual violence is like sort

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of intrinsic to the Jewish social milieu, but it's hard

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to argue otherwise.

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Speaker 1: All right. Two Freud's assault on truth the story has

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been told by Jeffrey Massan, and the assault on truth

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Freud's suppression of the seduction theory. In eighteen ninety five

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and eighteen ninety six, Freud, listening to his neurotic and

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hysteri patients, became convinced that most of them had suffered

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from traumatic sexual abuse in their childhood. The traumatic origin

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of hysteria and overused diagnosis in these days had already

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been discussed by neurologists, including Jean Martin Charcaut, whose conferences

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Freud had attended in Paris, and Hermann Oppenheim, who published

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in Berlin in eighteen eighty nine a treatise on traumatic

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neurosis neuroses, yet psychological traumas of sexual nature were rarely

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discussed openly. On the other hand, there were medical publications

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known to Freud documenting the frequency of violence on children,

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including sexual assaults, but they focused on the physical consequences.

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In April eighteen ninety six, confident to have made a

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major breakthrough in psychiatry, Freud presented his findings to the

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Society for Psychiatry and Neurology in Vienna, his first major

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public address to his peers. His lecture met with total silence.

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According to Masan, Freud was urged never to publish it

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lest his reputation be damaged beyond repair. He found himself isolated,

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but nevertheless published his paper The Ideology of Hysteria. Are

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you familiar with that term?

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Speaker 2: Actually, I'm not. I think it's just an ortho orthodox

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pronunciation of ideology, just to say the origin of hysteria.

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Speaker 1: Freud's conclusions are drawn from eighteen case studies, six men

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and twelve women, all of which he claims bear his

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general thesis. This is quoting. I therefore put forward the

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thesis that at the bottom of every case of hysteria

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there are one or more occurrences of premature sexual experience,

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occurrences which belong to the earliest years of childhood, but

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which can be reproduced through the work of psychoanalysis and

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by the intervening decades. I believe that this is an

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important finding, the discovery of a kaputnilli kaputnili in neuropathology.

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Sexual experiences in childhood consisting in stimulation of the genitals,

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coitus like acts, and so on, must therefore be recognized

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in the last analysis as being the traumas which lead

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to a hysterical reaction to events at puberty and to

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the development of hysterical symptoms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Just that's the UK spelling of ideology, and that

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phrase caputnili is also just saying the origin of neuropathology, okay.

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Speaker 1: Freud suggests that this conclusion applies not only to hysteria

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but to most neuroses. Among other remarks, he suggests that

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children who aggress sexually other children do so as a

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result of having been sexually abused themselves. Quote. Children cannot

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find their way to acts of sexual aggression unless they

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have been seduced previously. However, one year after this article,

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Freud decided that he had made a mistake in believing

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his patients. He determined that what he was taken at,

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what he had taken as repressed memories of sexual abuse,

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were in fact fantasies. For the rest of his life

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he would keep telling how he overcame his era and

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discovered that these fantasies were intended to cover up the

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auto erotic activity of the first years of childhood, to

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embellish it and raise it to a higher plane. And

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now from behind the fantasies, the whole range of a

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child's sexual light came to light. They this is from

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the history of the psychoanalytic movement in nineteen nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to clarify, I mean, there's a lot

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of sort of unorthodox language and spelling of common terms

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in the English language, like fantasy with a pH is

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not meant to be synonymous with fantasy with an f

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fantasy with the pH is And this is something that

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that other psychoanalysts picked up later, like Melanie Kleine. But

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it's basically a sort of mental representation of the the

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wishes and desires of the individual. So it's it's not

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quite it's not a fantasy with an f it's a

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fantasy with a pH. It's it's it's connected to sort

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of unconscious mental processes and the way that they they

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generate this, they generate wish fulfillments. That's tied to Freud's

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idea of the wish fulfillment, but also frustrated wishes. So

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that's just generally what the pH is supposed to denote.

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Speaker 1: From the standpoint of Freud's earlier theory, which he euphemistically

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called the seduction theory, his new theory of spontaneous infantile

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sexual fantasy can be seen as a projection. Not unlike

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sex offenders tendency to blame their victims, the patients themselves

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are now accused of both sexual passion and murderous fantasies

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towards their parents. By repressing these self generated impulses, says

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Freudian orthodoxy, they have created their own neuroses, which may,

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in hysterics, take the form of false memories of abuse.

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Thirty five years later, Freud's most gifted disciple, once president

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of the International Psychoanalytic Association, stumbled on the same realization

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that Freud had shared in the Ideology of Hysteria. Sandor

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Frengi wrote in his diary in July nineteen thirty two

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that the Oedipus complex could well be the result of

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real acts on the part of adults, namely violent passions

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directed towards the children, who then develop a fixation not

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from desire, as Freud maintained, but from fear mother and

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father will kill me if I don't love them and

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identify with their wishes. Overcoming his apprehension of Freud's reaction,

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Florenci dared present his conclusions before the twelfth International Psychoanalytic

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Conference Congress in electrotitled Confusion of Tongues between the Adults

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and the Children. His paper contains a number of important

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ideas confirmed by later research, such as the victim's psychological

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identification with the aggressor or introjection. The aggressor disappears as

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external reality and becomes intrapsychic instead of extra psychic, so

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that even the guilt feelings of the aggressor are introjected.

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Ferensi hypothesized that helplessness caused the victim to empathize with

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the aggressor, a process today known as Stockholm syndrome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's what introjection basically refers to. It's

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the internalizing, making a mental model of some authority, the

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internalizing of the characteristics or habits or mentalities of some authority. Figure.

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Now that takes a very different context, you know, the

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difference between like internalizing a teacher or a school master,

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or a parent or an older sibling, as opposed to

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internalizing the attitudes and dispositions of an abusive of an abuser.

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I mean that also, there's a lot of Freudian concepts,

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not to like get way ahead of where we're at already,

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but there's a lot of Freudian concepts that take on

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a different character if you view them as being sort

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of compensatory responses to extreme trauma, extreme sexual violence. Like

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repetition compulsion is another example. Repetition compulsion, in like the

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orthodox Freudian worldview, is the tendency of an individual to

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repeat some action, usually a dysfunctional action, until they gain

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mastery over it and then can integrate that aspect of

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themselves into the larger psychological world. But when you think

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about the habit or the tendency of like sex abuse

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victims to engage in repetitive sexual dysfunction to like volunteer

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themselves into pornography or prostitution, or go from one one

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disastrous sexually violent situation to another disastrous sexually violent situation.

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It they never get to a point of mastery, and

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it's sort of like dispels the whole idea of the

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of the like the claim, the cleaned up interpretation of

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what that is supposed to express. It makes more sense

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in the context of as we're going to see a

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little bit later on, that individual has a split internally

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and they don't have The only frame of reference they

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have is this violent, chaotic, traumatic aggressor personality.

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Speaker 1: Extreme adversity, especially fear of death, may also trigger a

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premature development, for which Ferenci uses the metaphor of a

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fruit that ripens or becomes sweet prematurely when injured by

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the beak of a bird, or of the premature ripening

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of a wormy fruit. Shock can cause a part of

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the person to mature suddenly, not only emotionally, but intellectually

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as well. Such traumatic maturation happens at the expense of

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psychological integration, and Ferensi brings in the notion of a

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personality split quote, there can be no shock, no fright

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with that traces of a personality split. In his personal diary,

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reflecting on a patient who cannot remember having been raped

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but dreams of it ceaselessly French, he writes, I know

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from other analyzes that a part of our being can die,

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and while the remaining part of our self may survive

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the trauma, it awakens with a gap in its memory. Actually,

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it is a gap in the personality, because not only

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as the memory of the struggle to the death effaced,

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but all other associatively linked memories disappear, perhaps forever. The

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observation is consistent with the findings of French medical doctor

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and psychologist Pierre Janet, whose work has long been overshadowed

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by Freudian psychology but has generated increased interest. In the

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nineteen eighties, Jeanete theorized the first model of disassociative identity disorders,

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now included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

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In Les Nevros Nevrosis, jene wrote, justice, synthesis, and association

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are the great characteristics of all normal psychological operations, So

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disassociation is the essential characteristic of all diseases of the mind.

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Dissociation accounts for the evolution of traumatic memories composed of psychological, sensory, effective,

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and cognitive experiences, which Jenez calls ide fise. These fragmented

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aspects of the experience do not allow a real memory

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to integrate the biography of the subject and instead develop

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into separate psychic entities which nevertheless interfere with the main personality.

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In the most severe cases, it can develop into schizophrenia

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or multiple personalities. Parensis lecture confusion of tongues met with

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the same disapproval from members of the Psychoanalytic Association of

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Freud's ideology of hysteria had met with the Viennese psychiatrists.

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Farensi was ostracized by Freud and his sectarian disciples, and

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his paper was never translated into English for the International

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Journal of Psychoanalysis, as was customary. He died a few

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years later A Broken Man. Section three, The Hidden Fault

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of the Father. This story raises two questions. First, what

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is it that made Freud change his mind in the

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first place and made him shun ferensis work thirty years later? Secondly,

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and more importantly, why was Freud's theory so successful despite

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being long proven scientifically flawed and its therapeutic value baseless.

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On the first question, Massan shares his conviction that what

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Freud had uncovered in eighteen ninety six that in many

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instances children are the victims of sexual violence and abuse

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within their families, becomes such a liability that he literally

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had to banish it from his consciousness. This theory has

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been challenged, and Masan has been criticized for exaggerating the

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negative reaction to Freud's seduction theory. All that can be

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said with confidence is that his paper didn't bring him

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the instant fame he expected.

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Speaker 2: That's actually, that's the first time I actually ever heard that.

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I thought the only story I'd ever heard was that

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he had presented this idea of sexual violence as the

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precursor to psychological dysfunction, and that he was basically threatened

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with losing his career for proposing something that was so

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shocking to the senses of bourgeois European society. I guess

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I would have to see, you know, I tried to

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click that link there. I think that's a dead link.

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So I don't know if you can actually find the

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source that he's claiming, but it would be interesting to

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find other accounts. Certainly, if he self censored out of

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a sort of inability to to leap frog his career,

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that would be a lot more damning than simply he

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thought that he was going to be shut out of

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the discipline and out of the you know, the academic

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system for proposing something that was so like barbaric and

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shocking that. Again, that would also put a very different

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spin on because Freud also the thing that's like you

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would not really get this from just reading the Freudian ouvoir.

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So to speak. He was intensely self conscious about his work.

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He was intensely self conscious about the sort of the

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psychoanalysis as a sort of universal system of interpretation. Like

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that was one of his grand or ambitions. Was not

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just that it would be a therapeutic intervention or you know,

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his ambition was just that he was advancing a science

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of the human nervous system. He later again I invoked

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like from from Moses to Monotheism, he invoked his own

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system as a as a as a as a medium

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for literary criticism, for historical analysis, for sociology. So he

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thought it was a way a revolutionary way to look

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at everything, not just the human psyche and not just medicine.

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So on the one hand, he does have this reputation

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is like an intentionally self conscious, sort of career minded person.

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Even his even his relationship with Carl Jung, it was

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to an extent a sort of opportunistic way to present

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his ideas to gentile society by having them come through

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the mouth of a gentile speaker. So I guess maybe

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it's not a stretch to argue that he self censored

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out of a frustration with the lack of positive reception.

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But the common explanation going all the way back to

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Stefan maliunew Stefan Maliannu did a video about this like

350
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ten or fifteen years ago that the reason he pivoted

351
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from the seduction theory to this sort of if you

352
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want to say, victim blaming account of mental illness was

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basically because he had been threatened by his peers in

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the in the discipline. So I guess that's up for debate.

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Speaker 1: Masson takes other factors into account. He believes that Freud

356
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was influenced by the wacky or what the hell is

357
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that word oderheinunologist William Fliss, unhappy inventor of the nasal

358
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reflex neuroses, with whom Freud had developed a very peculiar

359
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,799
emotional bond. Incidentally, Fleiss's son would later write on sexual

360
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abuse and hint of his own abuse by his father.

361
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Massan is the editor of the Unextrigated version of Freud's

362
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letters to Fleis. Freud destroyed Fleis's letters, but failed to

363
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have his own letters destroyed, which provide unique information on

364
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the way Freud elaborated his theories. Yet at the end

365
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of the fascinating investigation, Massan amiss that the full explanation

366
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for Freud's sudden conversion eludes him. Additional insight has been

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supplied by two books published almost simultaneously nineteen seventy nine,

368
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one in French and one in German, both translated in

369
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English in nineteen eighty two, Marie Balmari Freud and The

370
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Hidden Faults of the Father and Marianne Krohl Freud and

371
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,319
his father both draw extensively from Freud's letters to Fleiss,

372
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which document how Freud was led to his theoretical about

373
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face by his introspective self analysis. Bal Maria and Kroll

374
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point out that Freud undertook this self analysis just after

375
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the death of his father, Jacob. On November second, eighteen

376
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ninety six, ten days after his father's death, Freud writes

377
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a flice about a dream he had the night before

378
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his funeral, in which appeared a sign saying you are

379
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requested to close the eyes, which he interpreted as referring

380
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to one's duty to the dead. Yet, on February eleventh,

381
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eighteen ninety six, after mentioning that forced oral sex on

382
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,359
children can result in neurotic symptoms, he adds, ultimately, my

383
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,200
own father was one of those perverts and is responsible

384
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for the hy theory of my brother, all of whose

385
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,240
symptoms are identifications, and those of several younger sisters. The

386
00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:48,000
frequency of this circumstance often makes me wonder. The following summer,

387
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he went through a depressive episode and wrote on July seventh,

388
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I still do not know what has been happening to me.

389
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Something from the deepest depths of my own neurosis set

390
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itself against any advance in the understanding of and you

391
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:05,759
have somehow been involved in it. Soon after September twenty first,

392
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,079
he announced to his friend I want to confide in

393
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:10,640
you immediately the great secret that has been slowly dawning

394
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,000
on me in the last few months. I no longer

395
00:29:13,079 --> 00:29:16,920
believe in my neurotica his seduction theory. He gave his

396
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,920
one explanation, the surprise that in all cases, the father,

397
00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:23,200
not excluding my own, had to be accused of being perverse.

398
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,160
In the next letter, October third, he wrote confidently that

399
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:29,640
in the case of his own neuroses, the old man

400
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,799
plays no active part. Finally, October fifteenth, he referred to

401
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,960
the Oedipus story, quoting a single idea of general value

402
00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:40,680
dawned on me. I have found in my own case too,

403
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,799
the phenomenon of being in love with my mother and

404
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,559
jealous of my father, and I now consider it a

405
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:55,119
universal event in early childhood. Balmari and Krall independently build

406
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,640
a strong case that Freud backed off from a theory

407
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,599
which tarnished the ideal image of the father he w grieving.

408
00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:04,240
After his father's death, Freud felt constrained by a mandate

409
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:07,160
that he was unable to resist, and hence dutiful son

410
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,000
that he was, took the guilt upon his own shoulders,

411
00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:14,559
with help of his Oedipus theory. Balmari and Krall bring

412
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:19,680
in the equation a recent biographical discovery of Jacob Freud's

413
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:23,359
less than perfect behavior the forgotten second wife name Rebecca,

414
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,559
who mysteriously disappears, possibly by suicide, at the time of

415
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,279
Jacob's marriage with his third wife, the beautiful Amelia Nathanson,

416
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:35,359
his half his age and already pregnant of Sigmund. Of fact,

417
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,279
Jacob tried to conceal by falsifying Sigmund's date of birth.

418
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,920
In light of post Freudian developments in transgenerational depth psychology,

419
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:47,200
it is possible that Freud had from early age an

420
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,839
intuitive sense of a hidden fault to the father linked

421
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,720
to his own identity, which may have combined with memories

422
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,599
of his father's sexual abuse on himself and his brothers

423
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,880
and sisters. During his self analysis at the age of four,

424
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,599
the whole thing came knocking at the door of his consciousness,

425
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,599
but he finally surrenders to the self conscious imperative to

426
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,319
close the eyes to cover up the menacing truth of

427
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,279
his father's faults. Freud invents of the Oedipus complex, changing

428
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:23,240
children charging children themselves as polymorphous perversion, while Mary points

429
00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:26,480
out that in his personal identification with his hero Oedipus,

430
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:29,759
who solved the riddle of the Sphinx, Freud truncated the myth.

431
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,359
According to Greek tragedians, Oedipus's father, Lais, was cursed by

432
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,039
the gods for seducing a young teenage boy and leading

433
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:42,480
to his suicide. Then, frightened by the oracle's prophecy that

434
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:44,680
he would be killed by his own son if he

435
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:49,839
conceived one conceived one, Lais had his newborn son abandoned

436
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:52,799
in the forest ankles pierced by the middle by the

437
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,599
middle with iron spikes Euripides the Phoenician maidens. Thus, in

438
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,480
the complete myth Oedipus, Oedipus's predestination to kill his father

439
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,200
and marry his mother is not determined by his own impulses,

440
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:08,160
but by the faults of his own father for Balmari,

441
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,000
Freud's ignorance of this part of the myth reveals and

442
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:14,200
symbolizes his own blind spot, his failure to discover the

443
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,240
secret guilts of the father, both of his own father

444
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:22,839
and by consequence, the fathers of his neurotic and hysterical patience.

445
00:32:26,079 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: Got anything there, No, no, no, I'm just following them.

446
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: Lets keep going, all right, here we go Part four,

447
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:42,400
The dark emotional Powers of Jewishness. Neither Massan nor BALMII

448
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:46,039
deal with the Jewish aspect of this issue. Marion Kroll

449
00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:49,000
hints that the father's mandates to close the eyes was

450
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,519
a question of filial piety, on which ultimately the entire

451
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:56,440
Jewish tradition is based, but although Jewish herself, she does

452
00:32:56,519 --> 00:33:01,440
not insist on that aspect. For an interesting on the

453
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:04,279
Jewish hidden background of the Oedipus complex, we can turn

454
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,279
to the very stimulating book of John Murray Cutahee, The

455
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,559
Ordeal of Civility. The author points out that Freud had

456
00:33:11,599 --> 00:33:16,480
been fascinated by Sophocles Sophocles's play Oedipus Rex from his adolescence.

457
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,240
When he saw it played in eighteen eighty five, it

458
00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,440
made again a deep and mysterious impression on him. Twelve

459
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:25,279
years later he wrote to Flices that he found, with

460
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:29,759
his new theory of universal repressed wishes of incest and parricide,

461
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,839
the explanation for the gripping power of Oedipus Rex. In

462
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,160
other words, comments cuta He, Freud proposes a theory to

463
00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:40,920
explain the play's power over him, and to make intelligible

464
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,079
why he should identify so deeply with its hero Oedipus.

465
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,000
It is in the course of that effort that the

466
00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:52,799
core of the theory of psychoanalysis is born. But then

467
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,440
cute He suggests that But then Cutehi suggests that Freud

468
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,880
failed to see the real origin of a fascination with

469
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:04,240
Oedipus Rex. What had resonated deeply in him from the

470
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,519
time he first read Oedipus Rex was not so much

471
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:08,880
the general plot of the play, the hero killing his

472
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,599
father and marrying his mother, as the circumstances in which

473
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:15,159
Oedipus killed his father. Coming down a narrow road, Oedipus

474
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,679
was rudely ordered to step aside by the herald of

475
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,880
the king, then was struck on the head by the

476
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,639
king himself. Enraged, Oedipus slew the king, his herald, and

477
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,320
the rest of his retinue except one. This story, not

478
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,960
acted but narrated in the play, bears an uncanny resemblance

479
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,199
with another story that had made a lasting impression on

480
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,639
Freud a few years earlier. As he explained in the

481
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,679
Interpretation of Dreams, this is a story of a father.

482
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,440
This is a story that his father, a stead old

483
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:49,119
Jew from Morovia, where Sigmund was born. Moravia, where Sigmund

484
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,079
was born, had told him when he was ten or

485
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:56,320
twelve years old, quoting to show how much better things

486
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,960
were now than they had been in his days. When

487
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,400
I was a young man, he said, I went for

488
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,920
a walk one Saturday in the streets to your birthplace.

489
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:05,960
I was well dressed and had a new cap on

490
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:08,119
my head. A Christian came up to me and with

491
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:10,400
a single blow, knocked off my cap into the mud

492
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,800
and shotted jew. Get off the pavement. And what did

493
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,199
you do, I asked. I went into the roadway and

494
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,840
picked up my cap. Was his quiet reply that struck

495
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,360
me as unheeric conduct than the part of the big

496
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,920
strong man who was holding a little boy by the hand.

497
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,920
I contrasted this situation with another which befitted my feelings better,

498
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,599
the scene in which Hannibal's father, Hamilcar Barka made his

499
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,119
boy swear before the household altered to take vengeance on

500
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:41,199
the Romans. Ever since that time, Hannibal has had a

501
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:47,760
place in my fantasies. Freud Cut, he argues, had experienced shame,

502
00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:50,679
had experienced shame of his father, and to be ashamed

503
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,920
of a father is a kind of moral parricide. Quoting Freud,

504
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,159
presumably experienced not only this rage and shame, but guilt

505
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:02,800
about the rage and shame censored. These unacceptable feelings unacceptable

506
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,840
to a dutiful son, ostensibly proud of his father, he

507
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,920
repressed them. Years later, he encounters Sophocle's tragedy and it

508
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:17,480
lays a spell on him. Still later, after his father's death,

509
00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:20,679
he rationalized the spell with a universal theory that discharged

510
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,199
him from further inquiry into his own family story. But

511
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,000
the idea fix which that Oedipus was to become for

512
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,760
Freud cut He maintains, hinges on a small detail, small

513
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,519
but structurally indispensable of the action of the story that

514
00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:38,840
Freud never mentions in all the countless times he retells

515
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,280
the legend a social insult, a discourtesy on the road

516
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,960
stemming from someone in a position of social superiority, King

517
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,960
Laius to the unknown wayfarer Oedipus, just as a Christian

518
00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:53,760
in Freiburg who forced Jacob Freud into the gutter. According

519
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,320
to kutahe the supposedly universal Oedipus complex de Freud thought

520
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,679
he discovered was in reality the veil of characteristically was

521
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,239
the veil of a characteristically Jewish complex of his time.

522
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: Again over, Yeah, I was just gonna say, because in

523
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,159
his book Totem and Taboo, Freud is basically trying to

524
00:37:21,639 --> 00:37:27,480
again create like an originary scene for how societies sort

525
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:33,760
of organize themselves. And the basic idea is this idea,

526
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,920
the myth of the primal Horde, which to put it really,

527
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:44,360
really simplistically is describes this symbolic murder of the father

528
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:50,800
by the sons. And I'm just I've never looked at

529
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:53,880
the because it's been like many, many many years since

530
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,639
I read some of these books, certainly before I ever

531
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,400
took on like this kind of framework to to think

532
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,559
about them. I'm sitting here just wondering now with the

533
00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:11,920
implications of his anthropological explanation would be, you know, in

534
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,719
the context of this Jewish persecution, the weakness of his

535
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:23,159
own father, the way his own parental sort of by

536
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,920
the way that I do fixated means fetish, so the

537
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,280
way his own sort of fetishized parental relations are informing

538
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,079
his his hys theorizing. I'm gonna model that one a

539
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,039
little bit more. But yeah, you can. You can continue.

540
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: Even if we judge that I already read that one,

541
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:43,280
or did I.

542
00:38:45,519 --> 00:38:46,159
Speaker 2: I don't think he did.

543
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: Okay, even if we I'm sorry, you know, that's yeah,

544
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,480
Even if we judge that yeah, even if we judge

545
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:57,840
that that thesis overstrained, it is questionable how the fantasies

546
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,159
with pH of avenging and billing the father could merge.

547
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:03,760
We can appreciate how kutah. He draws attention to the

548
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,639
fact that Freud's father, the father whom he felt compelled

549
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,239
to exculpate, but toward whom he nevertheless experienced a murder wish,

550
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,480
was a Jewish father recently immigrated from Yiddish Land into

551
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:21,159
the heart of European civilization. Freud's disciple and first biographer,

552
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,320
Ernest Jones remarks that Freud felt himself to be Jewish

553
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,639
to the core, and evidently it meant a great deal

554
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,360
to him. Books dealing specifically with Freud's Jewishness, such as

555
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,559
Moisha gracer Dual Allegiance Freud as a Modern Jew Sunny

556
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:39,320
Press nineteen ninety four, can rely on several statements made

557
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,559
by Freud himself, either in private correspondence or in Jewish environment.

558
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,559
In the preface for the Hebrew translation of Totem and Taboo,

559
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,880
for example, asking himself rhetorically, what is Jewish in his work,

560
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,599
Freud answered, A very great deal and probably its very essence.

561
00:39:56,119 --> 00:39:59,079
In a speech prepared for delivery at the Benet Breath

562
00:39:59,199 --> 00:40:01,840
Lodge in Vienna in nineteen twenty six, Freud explained his

563
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,960
motivation for joining thirty years earlier in eighteen ninety seven, quoting,

564
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:11,480
whenever I have experienced feelings of national exultation, I've tried

565
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:14,320
to suppress them as disastrous and unfair, frightened by the

566
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,599
warning example of those nations among which we Jews live.

567
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,840
But there remained enough to make the attraction of Judaism

568
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,480
and the Jews irresistible. Many dark emotional powers, all the

569
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:28,960
stronger the less they could be expressed in words, as

570
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,280
well as the clear consciousness of an inner identity, the

571
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,559
familiarity of the same psychological structure. So I became one

572
00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:41,360
of you. The statement is actually excellent.

573
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say that sounds very much like

574
00:40:44,519 --> 00:40:50,159
the Ordeal of civility hypothesis right there, that trying to

575
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,079
become stepping out of the schedtle, stepping out of their

576
00:40:55,159 --> 00:41:00,920
sort of tight knit, borderline incestuous little world, and suddenly

577
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,639
they're confronted with, you know, the technological modernity of European society.

578
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,800
I don't know if this is kind of his argument,

579
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,159
because I've actually never read The Ordeal of Civility, But

580
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,039
that could if we wanted to take a more cynical

581
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:21,920
approach to explaining why he has gone through these changes

582
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,880
in his psychological theory. I mean, it could be that

583
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,800
he wanted to in the same way he wanted to

584
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,719
absolve his father, he also wanted to absolve his people

585
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,639
of their own dysfunction, their ugliness, the violence that their

586
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:45,480
community sort of harbors. That in bringing bringing Jewish society

587
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:52,599
to Gentile society, he wanted to sort of make their

588
00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:56,800
dysfunction like, not a particular dysfunction. I mean, I don't

589
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,559
know if he would we say that his theore, the

590
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,400
universalizing of his theory is a way to whitewash, particularly

591
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,519
particularly Jewish dysfunction. Is it a way to help integrate

592
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:14,000
Jews into gentile society by saying, well, all this expressly

593
00:42:14,199 --> 00:42:20,239
Jewish dysfunction is actually sort of a universal human tendency.

594
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,679
I don't know, but that sentence, so I became one

595
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,719
of you is very telling to me.

596
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: Well, what I think is interesting here is that he

597
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,960
says that he joined the Bena breath in eighteen ninety seven,

598
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:38,159
which is I believe they says the year his father died.

599
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,360
I believe it says that earlier in the article. So

600
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,239
he's it seems like if he's joining the Bena breath

601
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,239
at that point, he's embracing his Judaism as his father

602
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,039
is passing. And you know, I don't know what his

603
00:42:55,559 --> 00:43:01,800
dad dies on November two, eighteen ninety six, or ten

604
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,559
days before that, and then the next year he joins

605
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:07,719
the Benet breath, which is, you know, I assume to

606
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:12,639
be around, be around other Jews, or even to find

607
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,840
a replace his father in some way by finding somebody

608
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,599
who you know, in a leadership role in Judaism. I

609
00:43:21,679 --> 00:43:26,920
don't know, just there as Yeah, the statement is an

610
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,280
excellent illustration of what Cut he calls the ordeal of civility,

611
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:33,199
the struggle of every Jew who wishes to assimilate yet

612
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,199
feels unable to overcome the dark emotional powers of his

613
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,840
ancestral Jewishness, with its implicit imperative not to assimilate Jewishness

614
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:47,280
has much to do with what Ivan Nagi calls those

615
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,239
invisible loyalties. They combined a person to his ancestors by

616
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,800
an irresistible system of values, obligations, and debts. The question

617
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,519
is to what extent freud psychoanalytical theory is the result

618
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:03,760
of freud surrender to those dark emotional to those dark

619
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:08,119
emotional powers. We must take Freud seriously when he tells

620
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,599
us in the Interpretation of Dreams that his own Jewishness

621
00:44:11,639 --> 00:44:14,800
took the form of an identification with Hannibal and the

622
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,519
fantasy of taking vengeance on the Romans. He went on

623
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:23,440
to say, quoting I myself had walked in Hannibal's footsteps. Hannibal,

624
00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:26,639
with whom I had achieved this point of similarity, had

625
00:44:26,679 --> 00:44:30,360
been my favorite hero during my years at the Gymnasium. Moreover,

626
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:33,679
when I finally came to realize the consequences of belonging

627
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,159
to an alien race and was forced by the anti

628
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,639
Semitic feeling among my classmates to take a definite stand,

629
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:43,880
the figure of the Semitic commander assumed still greater proportions

630
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,920
in my imagination. Hannibal and Rome symbolized in my youthful

631
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,320
eyes to struggle between the tenacity of the Jews and

632
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,920
the organization of the Catholic Church. The significance for our

633
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,599
emotional life which the anti Semitic movement has since assumed,

634
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,280
helped to fix the thoughts and impressions of those early days. Thus,

635
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,320
the desire to go to Rome has in my dream

636
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,239
life become the mask and symbol for a number of

637
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,639
warmly cherished wishes for whose realization one had to work

638
00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:14,760
with the tenacity and single mindedness of the Punic general,

639
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,079
though their fulfillment at times seemed as remote as Hannibal's

640
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:24,440
lifelong wished to enter Rome. The significance of this public confession,

641
00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:26,639
printed in eighteen ninety nine for all the world to read,

642
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:30,320
cannot be overstated. Here Freud names as a driving force

643
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,880
for his life the fantasy of entering Rome, the Christian

644
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,519
world and destroying it to avenge to Phoenicians the Jews.

645
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,519
If Freud was deeply influenced by his Jewish backgrounds, so

646
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:45,480
were the other founding members of the psychoanalytical movement. Dennis

647
00:45:45,559 --> 00:45:49,639
Klein writes in Jewish Origins of the Psychoanalytical Movement, quoting

648
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,440
From its beginning in nineteen oh two to nineteen oh six,

649
00:45:52,559 --> 00:45:55,639
all seventeen members were Jewish. The full significance of this

650
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,360
number lies again in the way they viewed themselves, For

651
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,159
the analysts were aware of their Jewishness and frequently maintained

652
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:06,320
the sense of Jewish purpose and solidarity. This feeling of

653
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,679
positive Jewish pride formed the matrix of the movement in

654
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,719
the psychoanalytical circle as a spirits are renewed independence. It

655
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,760
tightened the bond among the members and powered their self

656
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,400
image of a redemptive elite. The exception is Carl Jung,

657
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:27,039
whom Freud named president of the International psycho Analytical Association

658
00:46:27,159 --> 00:46:30,400
in nineteen ten, precisely is to deflect the reproach to

659
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,000
psychoanalysis was a Jewish science. Interestingly, Jung is the only

660
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:39,320
member who never subscribed to Freud's theory of infantile sexuality.

661
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:42,679
In response to a letter by Karl Abraham, who complained

662
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:46,800
that Jung seems to be reverting to his former spiritualistic inclinations,

663
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,880
Freud explained, it is really easier for you than it

664
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,679
is for Jung to follow my ideas, for you stand

665
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,519
nearer to my intellectual constitution because of racial kinship. Freud

666
00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:03,000
asked A. Abraham not to antagonize Jung, because it was

667
00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:06,079
only by his appearance on the scene a psychoanalysis escaped

668
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:12,159
the danger of becoming a Jewish national affair. In contrast

669
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:15,400
to Jung, Abraham was the most zealous supporter of Freud's

670
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,920
theory of infantile sexuality in the history of the socho

671
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,800
analytical movement. In nineteen nineteen, Freud wrote that the last

672
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,559
word in the question of traumatic etiology was later on

673
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,880
said by Abraham, when he drew attention to the fact

674
00:47:30,159 --> 00:47:33,239
that just the peculiar nature of a child's sexual constitution

675
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,119
enables it to provoke sexual experiences of a peculiar kind,

676
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:41,679
that is to say, traumas self inflicted traumas, so to speak.

677
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,639
Freud was referring to a nineteen oh seventeen paper by Abraham,

678
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,360
the Experiencing of Sexual trauma as a form of sexual activity.

679
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:53,159
It is perhaps significant that Abraham, son of an Orthodox Rabbi,

680
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,280
was also the most ethnocentric of Freud's disciples. He wrote

681
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:03,440
in nineteen thirteen an essay on neurotic ec exogamy, diagnosing

682
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:06,519
Jewish Men who say they could never marry a Jewess

683
00:48:06,599 --> 00:48:10,800
with an neurosis resulting from disappointed incestuous love.

684
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 2: I wondered, Yeah, not to interrupt too much, I always

685
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,280
wondered why. I mean, because that that basically Jung's rejection

686
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:28,920
of the seduction theory, really his rejection of Freud's sort

687
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,239
of like if you want to say, fixation on child's

688
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,880
childhood sexuality, was the wedge that drove them apart. And

689
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:45,400
the further that as as that that sort of disagreement

690
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,400
became more pronounced than Freud started to more aggressively attack

691
00:48:50,599 --> 00:48:53,639
Carl Jung privately and publicly, even taking out full page

692
00:48:53,679 --> 00:48:59,800
of newspaper ads saying that he was basically undermining him

693
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:05,320
in his career. I've always wondered why Jung didn't take

694
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:10,880
up that explanation of Freud's and I just wonder if

695
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:16,800
that speaks to like a fundamentally different sort of I

696
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,519
don't know, if you want to say, just cultural hygiene

697
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,760
between gentiles and Jews, that it's like less credulous to

698
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,599
like a gentile of well upbringing to believe that there's

699
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,199
rampant sexual violence going on.

700
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:34,039
Speaker 1: I don't know.

701
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:39,599
Speaker 2: Jung was famously sort of sort of had his own

702
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:44,719
sexual hang ups or or maybe not hang ups per se,

703
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:53,239
but we'll put it this way. He brought pleasure into

704
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,079
his private practice quite a bit. In fact, Freud chastised

705
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:02,360
him for romancing his his patient and Carl Jung would

706
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,320
even like when he was giving speaking engagements, he would

707
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,000
travel with his wife and his family and his mistress,

708
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:13,960
so like he had his own sort of sexual I

709
00:50:14,039 --> 00:50:17,119
guess if you want to say, sexual identity related issues.

710
00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:21,400
But it was never clear to me why why he

711
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:25,760
took such a conflict with Freud on that point. I mean,

712
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,039
I don't know, just wondering out that. Well, here's a

713
00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:33,639
question for you, and I don't know if you know

714
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,920
this or not. You know, basically the beginning of this

715
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:40,599
and through the beginning, it seems to imply that there

716
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:46,199
may have been a problem with parents, fathers molesting their

717
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,400
children in the Jewish community, and that it still happens

718
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:58,480
through today back then, do you know, how do you

719
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:02,960
know how was that just common? Was that just something

720
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:08,039
that was you know, was done by more than just Jews.

721
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,079
There were a lot there were a lot of cultures

722
00:51:10,119 --> 00:51:15,159
that engaged in that I certainly couldn't point to, like

723
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:21,039
empirical proof of that. I I mean, I think it's

724
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:26,320
probably not just a problem in like the Jewish community,

725
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,159
but I mean the type of dysfunction that Carl Jung.

726
00:51:29,519 --> 00:51:31,800
I mean there was not a lack of sort of

727
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,639
friction between him and his father, but it was of

728
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:41,280
an entirely different nature. Jung's father, I think was I

729
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,840
don't remember. I don't think he killed himself, but he

730
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,639
was sort of like a faith he was a pastor,

731
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:59,039
but he also had his own sort of personality conflicts. Yeah,

732
00:51:59,079 --> 00:52:01,519
I don't think I have an answered that question. I

733
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:04,440
don't think it's a strictly Jewish phenomenon. I think what

734
00:52:04,599 --> 00:52:08,239
is unique to the Jewish community, and it clearly has

735
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,159
been for a long time, is like circumcision is effectively

736
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,599
part of their tradition and has been for a very

737
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:18,480
long time. And do we have to get specific into

738
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:24,639
a kind of, you know, all overly narrow idea that

739
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:27,760
sexual violence. I mean that to me, circumcision is a

740
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:35,280
kind of sexual violence. The rabbi cleaning the aftermath of

741
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,480
that with his mouth, This is basically a violation. Whether

742
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,920
we want to talk in more overt terms or in

743
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,119
a sort of to borrow Freudian word a sort of

744
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:49,400
sublimated religious excuse for engaging in the same kind of

745
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:54,280
territorial behavior. It's no matter what way you want to

746
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,239
look at it, there's something intrinsic to their community that

747
00:52:59,199 --> 00:53:02,440
produces that sort of dysfunction. But I mean, I don't

748
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,719
think it's if we just wanted to talk about the

749
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:14,199
problem of incest more generally, or like familial sexual violence

750
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,760
more generally. I think it's out there. What's it? What's

751
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,719
kind of I did my own show on my substack

752
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:27,599
ebl on the work of George Patai recently, and one

753
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:30,039
of the questions that we had sort of raised. George

754
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:34,199
Pattai was a French well, he was a seminary student,

755
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,719
and then he became sort of a sort of your

756
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,559
stereotypical kind of French pervert philosopher, and he carried on

757
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,320
this tradition that you see a lot during Freud's time

758
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:54,199
and after, where there's this extreme preoccupation with incest as

759
00:53:54,239 --> 00:54:00,639
a sort of foundational anthropological, psychological question to be answered

760
00:54:00,679 --> 00:54:04,360
about human nature. And some of the most obvious examples

761
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,480
of intellectuals who broached that question were Freud, but also

762
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:12,239
Levi Strauss, who was also Jewish. And there were a

763
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,800
number of Jewish intellectuals at that time who, in their

764
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:21,079
social theorizing, were wondering about the foundational rule incest place,

765
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:24,159
what it tells us about human nature. And they weren't

766
00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:27,039
all Jews who did that. George of Bataie was not Jewish,

767
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,280
but he was also very heavily influenced by le By Strauss.

768
00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:33,920
And you know, that to me is like sort of

769
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,639
an indication that there's an over representation of this problem

770
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,719
in that community. But I don't think by any stretch

771
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,599
of the imagination, they were the only ones to uniquely

772
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:46,079
deal with that.

773
00:54:48,639 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: Okay, a new section denial projection inversion. I suggest that

774
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,000
Freud's abandon of the seduction theory and it's cover up

775
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,880
by the Oedipus complex were motivating half unconsciously, at least

776
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,639
by Freud's loyalty not only to his father but to

777
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:09,119
his Jewish community. In the eighteen nineties, Freud's clientele was

778
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,920
drawn exclusively from the Jewish middle class. Imagine if Freud's

779
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,880
seduction theory had earned him the recognition he craved for.

780
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,239
Although he disguised the identity of his patients and his

781
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,920
case studies. It would not have been long before his

782
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:25,760
work was attacked not just as Jewish science, but as

783
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:30,599
evidence of the depravity of Jewish mores. However, I don't

784
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:36,480
think Freud's consciousness is I don't think Freud reasoned consciously

785
00:55:36,679 --> 00:55:39,280
in this manner. As he was turning a blind eye

786
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:43,559
in the incestuous sexuality of his patient's family, his blindness

787
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,000
was not fake, but psychologically constrained. It is the blindness

788
00:55:47,079 --> 00:55:51,440
that characterizes Jewishness. At the core, Jewishness is the conviction,

789
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,280
deeply internalized from the earliest age, of the superiority of

790
00:55:55,400 --> 00:56:01,880
Jews over non Jews chosenness. Anything contradicting the superiority creates

791
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:09,039
a cognitive dissonance, which is overcome by denial. Denial means projection.

792
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,039
To protect the dirty secret of child abuse and Jewish families,

793
00:56:13,079 --> 00:56:17,719
including his own, Freud projected an imaginary, repressed, infantile perversion

794
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,920
on all mankind. Projection, in turn, means inversion. Freud's close

795
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,800
disciple Otto Rank claimed that Jews had a more primitive

796
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:32,400
and therefore more healthy sexuality than Gentiles. Freudians and Freudo

797
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:37,599
Marxists have systematically denounced Christian civilization as suffering from sexual repression.

798
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:42,519
According to Wilhelm Reich, anti Semitism is itself a symptom

799
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:46,400
of sexual frustration and could be cured by sexual liberation.

800
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:50,280
The mass Psychology of Fascism nineteen thirty four, an improvement

801
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,800
from Leo Pinsker's theory that Judeophobia was a hereditary and

802
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,679
incurable disease transmitted for two thousand years. In order to

803
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,639
understand the psychological ban background of the Reiche and Messianic

804
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,039
mission to cure the Christian West, and in order to

805
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:08,880
see more clearly the projective nature of the psychoanalytical theory

806
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,559
of repression, it is helpful to know that the personal

807
00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:15,119
story of Wilhelm Reich, which reads as a caricature of Freud's.

808
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:17,760
At ten years old, when he realized that his mother

809
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,360
was having an affair with his tutor, the young Wilhelm

810
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,679
thought of blackmailing his mother into having sex with him. Eventually,

811
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,119
he confided in his father, that is, about his mother's adultery.

812
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,599
In nineteen ten, after a period of beatings from his father,

813
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:38,000
his mother committed suicide, in which Reich blamed himself. One

814
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:41,199
of the most puzzling aspects of Jewish relationship with their

815
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:45,639
host nations is its ambivalence pattern on biblical history. Within

816
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:48,519
Jewish thinking, saving the nations and destroying them are not

817
00:57:48,639 --> 00:57:50,880
two sides of the same coin, but one and the same,

818
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,119
because what nations are supposed to be cured of is

819
00:57:54,239 --> 00:57:58,760
their very identity, their gods in biblical terms. According to

820
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,519
Andrew Hines, author of Jews in the American Soul, Jews

821
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:04,960
have shaped American ideas about the mind and soul with

822
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:09,760
the preoccupation to purge the evils they associated with Christian civilization.

823
00:58:10,719 --> 00:58:13,840
It really started with Freud, and September nineteen oh nine,

824
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,119
invited to give a series of lectures in New England,

825
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,639
Freud jokingly asked his companion Sandor Ferenzi and Carl Jung,

826
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,719
don't they know we're bringing them the plague? An extraordinary

827
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,679
statement for a medical doctor pretending to have found a

828
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,000
cure for neurosis and a prophetic one. Freudianism became a

829
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:35,800
justification for a sexual liberation that can be seen in

830
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,320
retrospect as a massive sexual abuse of the youth.

831
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:47,039
Speaker 2: So I don't want to rebut this too strongly. It's

832
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:50,840
just worth pointing out that Reich was a critic of Freud,

833
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:57,400
and that Reike they met in nineteen nineteen. Reich did

834
00:58:57,559 --> 00:59:00,880
try to get to some degree into Freud's inner circle,

835
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,480
have access to his clientele, and he took up some

836
00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:09,719
of Freud's theorizing, but certainly by the end of his

837
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,199
career he was sort of an antagonist to Freud. And

838
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:20,360
there's some I think there's I don't want to sound

839
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,639
like I'm trying to do apologetics here, because I'm not

840
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,840
really a Freudian. I think he's an interesting person in

841
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,760
in you know, intellectual history, but there's there's a sort

842
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,719
of a difference between Freud and then Freudianism that followed

843
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,559
after him, And there a lot of people who took

844
00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:42,440
up Freud as a kind of revolutionary figure. It took

845
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:48,400
his ideas as a as a vehicle for like anti Christian,

846
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,320
anti gentile, anti you know, Western polemics. I mean, as

847
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,840
Lourene Greynatt mentions earlier in the passage that you read,

848
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:02,800
you know, a lot of the post Marxist tradition was

849
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,920
a blend of Freud and marx UH, and it was

850
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:12,559
taking up some of those ideas that really were compatible,

851
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:21,599
compatible as a sort of like radical communist polemic against UH.

852
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:28,440
You know, the the inherited tradition of Western society. But

853
01:00:28,639 --> 01:00:34,800
Reich in particular used this sort of free wheeling sexuality

854
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:39,400
as as a as a foundation of his theorizing. It

855
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:41,880
was a it was a foundation of his polemic against

856
01:00:43,199 --> 01:00:47,960
Christian sexual morality. I don't know that I read into

857
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:51,440
Freud that as much, although some of those quotes, I

858
01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:53,559
had not heard that about the plague before. So that's

859
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:55,880
the first time I'm hearing that. You're telling me for

860
01:00:55,920 --> 01:01:00,239
the first time. It's that is telling. And I think

861
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:05,760
it's undeniable that he had a conscious self concept as

862
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:11,519
a Jewish man interfacing with gentile society. But sometimes I

863
01:01:11,639 --> 01:01:14,719
feel that he gets tarred a little bit too much.

864
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:16,239
Just a thought.

865
01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: Just for those who are watching. There's a picture here

866
01:01:25,079 --> 01:01:30,039
of Sigmund's grandson, Sir Clement Freud claiming as a British

867
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:33,079
mp pedophile, rapist, suspected murder of three year old girl.

868
01:01:33,199 --> 01:01:36,320
If you go to Wikipedia. All of these allegations were

869
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,079
made after his death, and I don't think anything could

870
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:47,039
be proven, but two or three women gave very similar accounts.

871
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:51,320
So just I know people who are watching this are

872
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,559
going to be like, Hey, what's that what's that? So

873
01:01:54,199 --> 01:01:57,039
all I can say is Clement Freud has a Wikipedia page,

874
01:01:57,079 --> 01:01:58,960
and I'm sure if you want to go, go down

875
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:03,440
a rabbit hole, all right, Part six, bene Brith and

876
01:02:03,559 --> 01:02:07,000
the Road to Fame. By a stunning coincidence, Freud was

877
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:10,239
initiated into the recently founded bene Brith in September eighteen

878
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,840
ninety seven, precisely the time of his conversion to the

879
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,440
dogma of infantile sexuality. Dennis Klein writes in chapter three

880
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:21,079
of his book the Book The Prefiguring of the Psychoanalytical

881
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:23,639
Movement Freud in the bene Breth that after the bitter

882
01:02:23,719 --> 01:02:27,599
disappointment of being denied professorship, Freud filled through the bene

883
01:02:27,719 --> 01:02:30,480
Breth the professional as well as the social vacuum in

884
01:02:30,519 --> 01:02:33,320
his life. He was a very active member, attending almost

885
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,239
every meeting during the first decade his most productive years.

886
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,840
He recruited at least three members, and in nineteen oh

887
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,519
one was a founding father of a second lodge in Vienna,

888
01:02:42,679 --> 01:02:45,360
the Harmony Lodge. The same year he gave a talk

889
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:50,079
on goals and purposes of the bene Breath Society. Freud

890
01:02:50,159 --> 01:02:53,239
often presented his work to the Bena Breath before publishing it.

891
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:56,760
In this respect, writes Klient, the Viennase bene Brith Lodge

892
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,519
was a precursor of the movement of psychoanalysis. After his

893
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:02,960
death in nineteen thirty nine, the bene Breth of Vienna

894
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:07,960
continued relentlessly the support granted during his lifetime to the

895
01:03:08,039 --> 01:03:13,000
famous brother. To what extent where the bene Breth Masonic

896
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:16,679
meetings influential and Freud swing from the seduction theory to

897
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,880
the Oedipus theory, No one can say. However, we can

898
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:24,079
hold as fairly certain that Freud's membership inay Birth was influential,

899
01:03:24,119 --> 01:03:26,760
and as becoming one of the major intellectual stars and

900
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:32,960
gurus of modernity. As a scientist, Freud was a failure,

901
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,079
duped by his own unconscious and unrealistic confidence that he

902
01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:40,440
could solve the human enigma by self analysis alone. He

903
01:03:40,639 --> 01:03:43,400
was also an impostor who, in his published case studies,

904
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:47,880
invented cures when there was none. As investigations, as the

905
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,320
real biographies of his patients have shown true, he was

906
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,159
sometimes insightful, but the hagiographic image of Freud as a

907
01:03:55,239 --> 01:03:59,760
discoverer of the unconscious is totally unwarranted. As Henri Ellenberger

908
01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:02,639
has shown in his classic study The Discovery of the

909
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,239
Unconscious quoting throughout the nineteenth century there existed a well

910
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,920
rounded system of dynamic psychiatry. The basic features of the

911
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,920
first dynamic psychiatry where the use of hypnosis as an

912
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,800
approach to the unconscious mind, the interest in certain specific

913
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,639
conditions called magnetic diseases, the concept of a dual model

914
01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:24,400
of the mind with a conscience with a conscious and

915
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,400
an unconscious ego, the belief in the psychogenesis of many

916
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,960
emotional and physical conditions, and the use of specific psychotherapeutic procedures.

917
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,840
The therapeutic channel was seen as being the rapport between

918
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,960
hypnotists and patient. The cultural impact of the first dynamic

919
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:46,840
psychiatry was far greater than is generally believed. It could

920
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,880
easily be argued that in matters of psychology, every sensible

921
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,400
thing that Freud said had been said before him, and

922
01:04:52,519 --> 01:04:56,079
that almost everything he said hadn't been said before has

923
01:04:56,239 --> 01:05:01,159
been proven wrong. So why did Freud become f The

924
01:05:01,239 --> 01:05:03,440
long answers that Freud benefited from the same kind of

925
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,360
communication networking that produced many other Jewish intellectual quote unquote geniuses,

926
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:13,360
and made French novelists. Andre Guide comment in nineteen fourteen

927
01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:17,239
in his diary about this tendency to constantly emphasize the

928
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,760
Jew This predisposition to recognizing in him talent, even genius.

929
01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:25,480
The shorter answers to the question above is ben a Breath.

930
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:28,880
I will not suggest that the Bena brit supported Freud's

931
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,519
Oedipus theory because they saw its potential for the moral

932
01:05:31,519 --> 01:05:33,679
corruption of the West. Nor do I suggest that the

933
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:36,880
ben a Breth and Freud conspired to ruin Western civilization

934
01:05:37,559 --> 01:05:46,559
with thetis pest elential idea of infantile sexuality. But I

935
01:05:46,639 --> 01:05:50,000
do suggest that had Freud maintained his earlier conviction in

936
01:05:50,039 --> 01:05:52,400
the reality of the abuses suffered by the Jewish parents,

937
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:59,159
he would not received as much support, probably none. To

938
01:05:59,239 --> 01:06:01,440
clarify this point, and is it appropriate to recall a

939
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,599
memorable demonstration of power by the benet Brith, which has

940
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:08,639
an obvious relevance to Freud's intellectual biography. In nineteen thirteen,

941
01:06:08,679 --> 01:06:11,679
the Bene Brith created the antidefamation lead to save the

942
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,920
life and reputation of Leo Frank, the wealthy young president

943
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:17,159
of the Atlanta chapter of the Bena Brith, who was

944
01:06:17,239 --> 01:06:19,679
convicted of the rape and murder of Mary Fagan, a

945
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,639
thirteen year old girl work in his pencil factory. The

946
01:06:22,719 --> 01:06:26,440
evidence for Frank's guilt was overwhelming, but tremendous financial resources

947
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,119
were deployed for his legal defense, including false testimonies. An

948
01:06:30,199 --> 01:06:34,599
intense publicity was orchestrated in the news media, with the

949
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,679
New York Times devoting enormous coverage to this case. I

950
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:43,880
quote from ronn Uns's article, quoting for almost two years

951
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,159
to nearly limitless. Funds deployed by Frank's supporters covered the

952
01:06:47,239 --> 01:06:50,440
cost of thirteen separate appeals on the state and federal levels,

953
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,239
including to the US Supreme Court, while the national media

954
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,320
was used to endlessly vilify Georgia's system of justice in

955
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:00,000
the harsher's possible terms. Naturally, this soon generated a lite

956
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,679
local reaction, and during this period, outraged Georgians began denouncing

957
01:07:03,719 --> 01:07:06,360
the wealthy Jews who were spending such enormous sums to

958
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:11,079
subvert the local criminal justice system. All appeals were ultimately rejected,

959
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:13,880
and Frank's execution date for the rape and murder of

960
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,960
the young girl finally drew near, but just days before

961
01:07:17,079 --> 01:07:21,000
he was scheduled to leave office, Georgia's outgoing governor commuted

962
01:07:21,039 --> 01:07:25,159
Frank's sentence, provoking an enormous storm of popular protests, especially

963
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,119
since he was legal partner of Frank's chief defense lawyer

964
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,519
and obvious conflict of interest. A few weeks later, a

965
01:07:31,599 --> 01:07:36,119
group of Georgia citizens stormed Frank's prison farm, abducting and

966
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,360
hanging him, with Frank becoming the first and only Jew

967
01:07:39,559 --> 01:07:45,000
lynched in American history. Thanks to the mobilization of the

968
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:48,760
Jewish power elite. As one man, Leo Frank had been

969
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,639
turned from a convicted pedophile and child murder into a

970
01:07:51,719 --> 01:07:54,760
martyr of antisemitism. We don't know what Freud thought of

971
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,199
this case, but there is an obvious residence between his

972
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,639
assaults on truth and the Benet Brits. If young Mary

973
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:04,239
Fagan had visited Affreudian psychoanalyst before her atrocious death and

974
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,320
complained of her boss's sexual overtures, she probably would have

975
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,840
been told about her own penis envy. Had she protested,

976
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,000
she would have been told that her protest proved her

977
01:08:13,079 --> 01:08:18,800
sexual repression. Exactly has happened to Freud's patience. Dora Dora

978
01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:21,600
i'd a Bauer by her real name, an eighteen year

979
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:28,560
old girls suffering from hysterical symptoms. I will say this,

980
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:37,680
the KKK up until this point really had no the

981
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:43,960
Jewish question wasn't really on their radar. This basically was

982
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,920
a turn in their organization. And actually at that point

983
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:52,640
their organization had weakened and this kind of woke them up.

984
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,880
So yeah, we see the Uh what happens when ju

985
01:09:00,239 --> 01:09:05,319
power and money goes to protect their own people doings,

986
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:09,279
who've done something wrong or being accused of doing something wrong?

987
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,000
How other people just go Wait a minute, let's start

988
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:20,159
asking some questions about this? So all right? Part seven

989
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:23,960
The Isaac complex. The son's repressed wish to murder his

990
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:27,319
father is perhaps Freud's most fertile intuition. The problem is

991
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:30,680
with Freud's abuse of generalization, only the neurotic son of

992
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,279
a destructive and manipulative father has a repressed wish to

993
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:37,000
kill the father. Freud discovered this impulse in himself and

994
01:09:37,119 --> 01:09:39,880
confounding his own self analysis for a scientific quest of

995
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,479
universal laws, he projected it on all mankind. But the

996
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,680
fact that Freud's Jewish disciples all discover the same impulse

997
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,520
and that Freudian has it became so widely accepted by Jews,

998
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:54,359
suggest that Freud's generalization was not without merit. It only

999
01:09:54,399 --> 01:09:58,359
suffered from the tendency of Jewish intellectuals to protect toject

1000
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,399
Jewish issues on all mankind. The child's repressed wish to

1001
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,800
kill his father is not universally human, but may be

1002
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,520
characteristically Jewish. For the Jewish father is the guardian of

1003
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,800
Jewishness and the representative of the Jewish God, and every

1004
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,119
Jewish buyer is in the depth of his soul to

1005
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:19,119
free himself from Yahweh, the archetypal, abusive and castrating father,

1006
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:24,239
as Philip Brought's character Smilesberger says in Operation Shylock, to

1007
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:27,439
appeal to a crazy, violent father, and for three thousand

1008
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:30,079
years that is what is to be a crazy Jew.

1009
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,239
And so the secret wish to murder the Jewish father

1010
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:35,000
is also a secret wish for the death of the

1011
01:10:35,079 --> 01:10:38,079
Jewish God. It is therefore identical with the so called

1012
01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:42,239
Jewish self hatred that Theodore Lessing saw as affecting every

1013
01:10:42,319 --> 01:10:45,039
Jew without exception. There is not a single man of

1014
01:10:45,079 --> 01:10:47,880
Jewish blood in whom cannot be detected at least the

1015
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,359
beginning of Jewish self hatred.

1016
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 2: This also begs, the makes me wonder again, Like thinking

1017
01:10:55,680 --> 01:11:01,039
of his book From Moses to Monotheism. If we're taking

1018
01:11:01,239 --> 01:11:05,479
this point of view that Lorent is putting forth here,

1019
01:11:06,159 --> 01:11:09,720
I mean, maybe there's a vested interest in Freud wanting

1020
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:17,760
to complicate or problematize the Jewish view of themselves as

1021
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:23,880
being the first and only authentic monotheistic people. I mean,

1022
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,600
I do think in that book he talked about Yahwehs

1023
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,600
being a volcanic god. I mean, these are sort of

1024
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:37,000
things that like contemporary comparative religious scholars sort of look at.

1025
01:11:37,119 --> 01:11:39,760
Certainly it's something anti Semites look at and say, hmm,

1026
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:45,000
this is a particularistic god with the specific origin that

1027
01:11:45,239 --> 01:11:48,680
reflects an aspect of the Jewish psyche and maybe it's not,

1028
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,279
you know, the one true loving God of the Bible

1029
01:11:52,359 --> 01:11:57,640
blah blah blah. I mean, it's certainly interesting to turn

1030
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,439
the psychoanalysis back back on the psychoanalyst. That's always a

1031
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:02,199
fun game to play.

1032
01:12:05,119 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 1: We're almost done here, so I guess we're gonna finish

1033
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:12,680
this up alrighty. By choosing a Greek myth as a

1034
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,840
metaphor for his theory, Freud was projecting on Gentiles a

1035
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,600
Jewish problem. Had he recognized the Jewish overtone of the complex,

1036
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,800
he might have called it the Isaac complex, since Isaac

1037
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,720
is the son that Abraham was willing to slaughter. The expression.

1038
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,760
The expression Isaac complex has actually been used by French

1039
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:35,159
heterodox psychoanalyst Jean Pierre Fresco, who defines it as the

1040
01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:38,680
overall consequences of the son's psyche of a father perceived

1041
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:45,079
as as psychologically menacing, destroying, or murderous. Fresco calls such

1042
01:12:45,119 --> 01:12:48,760
a father a Brahmic. He draws his insight from a

1043
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:52,720
reading of Frantz Kofka's autobiographical and posthumously published Letter to

1044
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,439
the Father, in which Kafka describes the devastating effect on

1045
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:02,319
his personality of a father who means of education, work, abuse, threats, irony,

1046
01:13:02,399 --> 01:13:06,479
spiteful laughter, and oddly enough, self pity. Kafka also wrote

1047
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,640
to his father, my writing was all about you. All

1048
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,319
I did there, after all, was to be moan what

1049
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:18,279
I could not be moaned upon your breast. Kafka's major

1050
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:21,479
novels refer autobiographically to his relationship with his father and

1051
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:26,600
its deletarious psychic consequences. The metamorphosis tells of Gregor Samson's

1052
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,239
transformation into a repulsive insect, chased and killed by his father,

1053
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,279
whose incestuous violence is suggested in the scene where the

1054
01:13:33,319 --> 01:13:36,399
father attacks his son from behind with a cane, tapping

1055
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,600
his feet and pushing out sibilants like a wild man.

1056
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,079
After the death of Gregor appears his sister Greta, his

1057
01:13:44,319 --> 01:13:50,159
double in the other sex, the homosexualized son in the Verdict, George,

1058
01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:55,039
anagram of Gregor, has just become engaged with Frieda Brandenfeld

1059
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,279
same initials as Felice Bauer, the woman whom Kafka had

1060
01:13:58,399 --> 01:14:01,239
just started dating, and announced it to his father. The

1061
01:14:01,319 --> 01:14:04,399
father opposes a terrible prohibition to this project of marriage,

1062
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:09,319
accompanied by extreme narcissistic violence. The paternal prohibition of emancipation

1063
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:13,079
through marriage is linked to an incestuous domination that becomes

1064
01:14:13,159 --> 01:14:18,279
clear when George submissively proposes to the father to exchange beds.

1065
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:22,199
Fresco also finds a psychic trace of the father in

1066
01:14:22,319 --> 01:14:26,560
Kofgo's novel The Trial, whose narrator Joseph Kay was arrested

1067
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,359
without knowing who slandered him nor who will judge him.

1068
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:35,439
According to Fresco, this incomprehensible and omnipotent slanderer accuser. Judge

1069
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:41,880
is the palymphesist, the polympicist of an archaic Abrahamic father,

1070
01:14:42,279 --> 01:14:48,039
unconsciously introjected as an archaic and sadistic super ego and

1071
01:14:48,159 --> 01:14:55,039
turned into an inner prosecutor. I find it significant that Kafka,

1072
01:14:55,079 --> 01:14:57,680
by his own omission, drew his inspiration from his experience

1073
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,159
as the son of a psychopathic father, while his Jewisish

1074
01:15:00,199 --> 01:15:05,439
literary critics consider him quintessentially Jewish by common consents at

1075
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,159
Harold Bloom, Kafka is not only the strongest modern Jewish writer,

1076
01:15:09,319 --> 01:15:15,159
but the Jewish writer, hence Israel's long decade long legal

1077
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:18,760
battle to secure his autograph manuscripts as national treasure. Who

1078
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,039
is right of Kafka and his critics? Does his genius

1079
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:26,039
come from being Jewish or from having a psychopathic father? Obviously,

1080
01:15:26,079 --> 01:15:29,039
it is impossible to distinguish the two factors. Because the

1081
01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:33,119
psychopathic father happens to be Jewish, he is, in Fresco's terms,

1082
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:36,600
the typical a Bramic father. But are not all Jewish

1083
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,079
fathers of Brahmik in the measures of their jewishness? Is

1084
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:43,319
not the Jewish God a psychopathic father and the psychopathic

1085
01:15:43,359 --> 01:15:49,000
father of a Jewish god. Kafka perceived his sadistic father

1086
01:15:49,119 --> 01:15:52,199
as a cruel divinity whose laws were totally arbitrary and

1087
01:15:52,279 --> 01:15:55,960
yet unquestionable, just like the Jewish God. For me, as

1088
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,720
a child, everything you called out to me was positively

1089
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,560
a heavenly commandment, he wrote in his Letters to the Father.

1090
01:16:02,399 --> 01:16:05,960
From your armchair, you ruled the world. Your opinion was correct.

1091
01:16:06,079 --> 01:16:09,920
Every other was mad, wild with sugar, not normal. Your

1092
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:12,600
self confidence, indeed, was so great that you had no

1093
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:16,159
need to be consistent at all, and yet never ceased

1094
01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:19,920
to be right, quoting Hence, the world was for me

1095
01:16:20,039 --> 01:16:22,920
divided into three parts. One in which I, the slave,

1096
01:16:23,159 --> 01:16:25,840
lived under laws that had been invented only for me,

1097
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,479
and which I could I did not know why, never

1098
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:31,880
completely comply with. Then a second world, which was infinitely

1099
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,920
remote from mine, in which you lived concerned with government,

1100
01:16:35,119 --> 01:16:37,640
with the issuing of orders and the annoyance about their

1101
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:41,159
not being obeyed. And finally a third world, which everybody

1102
01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:44,000
else lived happily and free from orders and from having

1103
01:16:44,079 --> 01:16:47,520
to obey. I was continually in disgrace. Either I obeyed

1104
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,000
your orders, and that was a disgrace, for they applied,

1105
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:53,000
after all, only to me, or I was defiant, And

1106
01:16:53,119 --> 01:16:55,840
this was a disgrace too, for how could I presume

1107
01:16:56,319 --> 01:16:58,920
to defy you and I could not obey because I

1108
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,159
did not, for instance, have your strength, your appetite, your skill,

1109
01:17:02,279 --> 01:17:05,800
although you expected it of me as a matter of course.

1110
01:17:06,119 --> 01:17:15,199
This was the greatest disgrace of all. I mean, this

1111
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,279
is I was as I was reading this section right here,

1112
01:17:18,359 --> 01:17:23,079
the quoted section, I was just thinking of E. Michael Jones,

1113
01:17:23,119 --> 01:17:27,399
a Jewish revolutionary spirit, where I mean he's just basically

1114
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:32,399
he's revolting against everything around him and all he wants

1115
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:35,560
to do is just be. It seems like just be

1116
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:40,359
a solo man where the only the only person he

1117
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:41,720
has to answer to is himself.

1118
01:17:43,079 --> 01:17:47,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, that that that sort of radical

1119
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,880
individualistic streak does seem to be kind of characteristically Jewish.

1120
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's a it's been pushed upon us, upon

1121
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:02,439
this culture, upon America and what used to be the

1122
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:09,159
West for one hundred years now. It's a you know,

1123
01:18:09,239 --> 01:18:14,159
it's seen as a virtue. And if you go against

1124
01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:19,520
that individualism, you're a communist, which is ironic considering where

1125
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:25,279
both of those ideas came from right, yeah, all right.

1126
01:18:25,399 --> 01:18:28,319
Part eight, and this is the last part, the trauma

1127
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:33,159
of eight days circumcision. After all, the Abrahamic father is

1128
01:18:33,239 --> 01:18:37,119
the executioner of the commandment given to Abraham. As soon

1129
01:18:37,159 --> 01:18:39,079
as he is eight days old, every one of your

1130
01:18:39,119 --> 01:18:43,479
male's generation after generation must be circumcised. Had Freud preserved

1131
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,479
his original insight into the psychological damage of sexual abuse

1132
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:51,680
on children, he might have eventually reflected on the impact

1133
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,640
of neonatal circumcision, but he has been rather discrete on

1134
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,760
the subject. Though he didn't have his own sons circumcised,

1135
01:18:59,359 --> 01:19:02,479
he broaches in his later books, but only in the

1136
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:08,159
context of anthropological speculations. In New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis,

1137
01:19:08,239 --> 01:19:13,199
he speculated that during the human family's primeval period, castration

1138
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:15,520
used to be carried out by a jealous and cruel

1139
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,239
father upon growing boys, and the circumcision, which so frequently

1140
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:22,159
plays a part in puberty rights among primitive people, is

1141
01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:26,600
a clearly recognizable relic of it. Freud went further in

1142
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:32,279
Moses and Monotheism. Circumcision is the symbolic substitute of castration,

1143
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,000
a punishment which the primeval father dealt his sons long

1144
01:19:36,079 --> 01:19:39,359
ago out of an awfulness of his power, and whosoever

1145
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,560
accepted this symbol showed by so doing that he was

1146
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,560
ready to submit to his father's will, although it was

1147
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:52,560
at the cost of a painful sacrifice. Interestingly, Freud originally

1148
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,479
got that idea from Sandor Ferenci, who had written an

1149
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,920
article that greatly impressed Freud, that circumcision as a means

1150
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,520
of inspiring terror a symbol of castration by the father.

1151
01:20:06,239 --> 01:20:08,640
But we note that in the above quotations, Freud isn't

1152
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:12,279
referring to Jewish circ circumcision of eight day children, only

1153
01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:16,000
to circumcision of adolescent boys. Given the Jewish undercurrent of

1154
01:20:16,039 --> 01:20:18,760
Freud's intellectual biography, it is reasonable to assume that his

1155
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:22,960
inability to deal with the issue of Jewish neonatal circumcision

1156
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:26,319
is connected to his refusal to face the devastating reality

1157
01:20:26,359 --> 01:20:29,680
of child abuse. Isn't the first abuse suffered by every

1158
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,720
Jewish male that part of his parents and kin's circumcision

1159
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,520
on the eighth Day, It physically impresses on every Jew

1160
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,720
and on all Jews collectively, the traumatic domination of Yahweh

1161
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:48,479
and his covenants. The psychological impact of neonatal circumcision performed

1162
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:51,640
without anesthesia and causing unbearable pain has been studied by

1163
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,439
Professor Ronald Goldman, author of Circumcision The Hidden Trauma. His

1164
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,640
research shows a disturbance in the mother child bonding process

1165
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:03,079
after the ritual. Testimonies from mothers who observe circumcisions show

1166
01:21:03,119 --> 01:21:05,520
that the mother's guilt is also part of the equation.

1167
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,600
Here is one from Elizabeth Pickard Ginsburg. I don't feel

1168
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:11,840
I can recover from it. We had this beautiful baby

1169
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:15,159
boy in seven beautiful days, and this beautiful rhythm starting,

1170
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,399
and it was like something had been shattered. When he

1171
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:20,760
was first born. There was a tie with my young one,

1172
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,560
my newborn, and when the circumcision happened, in order to

1173
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:27,079
allow it, I had to cut off the bond. I

1174
01:21:27,159 --> 01:21:29,359
had to cut off my natural instincts, and in doing so,

1175
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,079
I cut off a lot of feelings towards Jesse. I

1176
01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:34,119
cut it off to repress the pain and to repress

1177
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:41,239
the natural instinct to stop the circumcision. The unnatural incestuous

1178
01:21:41,319 --> 01:21:44,119
wish that Freud and his Jewish male disciples discovered in

1179
01:21:44,159 --> 01:21:48,479
their repressed unconscious could perhaps be explained as a result

1180
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:52,399
of the inhibition in mother child bonding caused by the

1181
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:56,079
trauma of neonatal circumcision, a trauma cause at this age

1182
01:21:56,119 --> 01:21:58,720
has little chance to ever be brought back into consciousness

1183
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,680
and be healed. Research is perhaps needed on the possible

1184
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:06,039
link between Jewish circumcision and the fact that, according to

1185
01:22:06,239 --> 01:22:09,680
the nineteen o six Jewish Encyclopedia, that the Jews are

1186
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:12,319
more subject to diseases of the nervous system than the

1187
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:16,600
other races and peoples among which they dwell. Research done

1188
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:20,079
by sociologist Leo Stroll in nineteen sixty two show that

1189
01:22:20,119 --> 01:22:23,399
the rate of neuroses and character disorders among Jews was

1190
01:22:23,399 --> 01:22:27,439
about three times higher three times is high among Catholics

1191
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:33,279
and Protestants. In the Future of an Illusion, Sigmund Freud

1192
01:22:33,359 --> 01:22:39,319
describes religion, meaning essentially Christianity, as universal obsessional neurosis, which

1193
01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:42,359
has for believers the merit that their acceptance of the

1194
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:47,479
universal neurosis spares them the task of constructing a personal one.

1195
01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:50,640
With a similar approach, Judaism can be described as a

1196
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:56,159
collective sociopathy. That does not mean that the Jews are sociopaths,

1197
01:22:56,399 --> 01:22:58,960
but rather that, in proportion to the degree of their

1198
01:22:59,039 --> 01:23:02,680
identification is Jews. They are victims of a sociopathic mindset

1199
01:23:03,079 --> 01:23:06,880
patterned from the tannak marked in their flesh, impressed traumatically

1200
01:23:07,279 --> 01:23:12,000
in their subconscious by circumcision, and fuel by their elites

1201
01:23:12,279 --> 01:23:16,439
with the paranoia of anti Semitism. The difference between collective

1202
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:22,680
sociopathy and individual sociopathy is the same as between collective

1203
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,880
neurosis and individual neurosis. According to Freud, participation in a

1204
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:32,439
collective sociopathic mentality allows members of the community to channel

1205
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:36,720
sociopathic tendencies towards the outside of the community and to

1206
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:41,119
maintain inside a high degree associability.

1207
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:46,720
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, especially in the light of those last

1208
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:51,039
two sections, if you look at a lot of if

1209
01:23:51,039 --> 01:23:54,399
you look at some of the other classic Freudian concepts,

1210
01:23:55,199 --> 01:24:00,640
some of his defense mechanisms, even his tripartite model of

1211
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:05,960
human consciousness, to in the ego, the super ego, it

1212
01:24:06,279 --> 01:24:10,520
does I mean, this is one of the reasons, going

1213
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,119
through my education, but also just reflecting on it throughout

1214
01:24:13,119 --> 01:24:16,039
my life, I never really considered myself a Freudian was

1215
01:24:16,079 --> 01:24:20,479
because I never felt in my own experience as a

1216
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:27,319
thinking person, any identification with or recognition of some of

1217
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:31,119
these things that he treated as sort of paramount to

1218
01:24:31,159 --> 01:24:35,199
the human experience. So you know, the idea of a

1219
01:24:35,279 --> 01:24:41,640
super ego as this sort of crushing mental tyrant, urging

1220
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,399
you into conformity. I mean, that sounds a lot more

1221
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:50,960
like how Lourent Goynott talks about the relationship that Jewish men,

1222
01:24:51,279 --> 01:24:56,079
Jews in particular, feel towards Yahweh and the desire to

1223
01:24:56,279 --> 01:25:01,600
overthrow the Father, to set themselves up as a sort

1224
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:08,439
of authoritarian god of one type or another. I mean,

1225
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:11,119
that is what the super ego is and his conception,

1226
01:25:11,279 --> 01:25:14,880
and that's sort of what you know, a certain like

1227
01:25:15,039 --> 01:25:17,960
anti Semitic reading of the God of the Old Bible

1228
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:22,479
looks like. And I don't know too many gentiles my

1229
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,479
whole life who really necessarily had a problem with like

1230
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,840
I mean, there's an extent to which, you know, nobody

1231
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,319
likes to be told what to do, and at some

1232
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:35,720
point in life we're all like shaking our fist against

1233
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,960
the man or whatever. But this sort of like deep seated,

1234
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:46,680
for lack of a better word, pathological relationship with authority

1235
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:51,920
or conformity. I mean, most of the guy, I mean

1236
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,119
I grew up middle class for the most part, so

1237
01:25:54,199 --> 01:25:56,159
most of the people I knew, like, never had a

1238
01:25:56,239 --> 01:26:00,359
problem with conformity so long as the native sure of

1239
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:06,119
the authority was acceptable or justifiable. And you see a

1240
01:26:06,199 --> 01:26:10,760
certain streak in like these more radical Jewish intellectuals, where

1241
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:14,199
there there literally is no standard that they will subject

1242
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:21,399
themselves to and and many Jewish philosophies are entirely based

1243
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:25,359
on this idea that I am my own measure and

1244
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:28,720
how dare you? This is almost like like is his name,

1245
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,840
Dave Portnoy from barstool Sports. It's like he's like almost

1246
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:37,439
a good representation of this, Like, fuck you. There is

1247
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:41,039
literally no standard I will accept because that standard is

1248
01:26:41,119 --> 01:26:46,760
external to myself. And that is so dysfunctional. And Lorenz

1249
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:50,199
says at the end, sociopathic. I mean, you literally can't

1250
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:54,720
build a society. You can't build a community around a

1251
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:01,079
type of masculine psychology that simply categorically rejects any other

1252
01:27:04,039 --> 01:27:09,159
and any other responsibility to beyond itself. I have some

1253
01:27:09,279 --> 01:27:11,039
other thoughts. I don't know if you want to respond

1254
01:27:11,079 --> 01:27:16,640
to that. No, keep going, So, I mean the other

1255
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,880
thing that so, the other thing that Freud is well

1256
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:25,000
known for putting forth, are this sort of comprehensive list

1257
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:32,640
of defense mechanisms, some of which, like frankly like never

1258
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:34,760
made sense to me and part of the reason why

1259
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:38,239
I struggled to really embrace my career as a psychologists

1260
01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:41,399
because it was like, some of these these are supposed

1261
01:27:41,399 --> 01:27:43,800
to be foundational ideas, and it's like I don't really

1262
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:47,119
see them reflected in other people. I don't really see

1263
01:27:47,159 --> 01:27:54,239
them in myself. So, like, for example, reaction formation and sublimation,

1264
01:27:55,920 --> 01:28:01,640
these are psychological defense mechanisms that actually make a lot

1265
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:05,800
more sense if you're assuming that it's a sort of

1266
01:28:07,319 --> 01:28:15,319
group outsider group strategy in a hostile society. So the

1267
01:28:15,399 --> 01:28:18,920
idea of reaction formation is that you behave in a

1268
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,159
way that is the opposite of how you feel, or

1269
01:28:22,279 --> 01:28:26,279
is the opposite of your natural inclination. And maybe if

1270
01:28:26,359 --> 01:28:31,560
you are sort of like maybe like Freud potentially was,

1271
01:28:32,239 --> 01:28:38,039
where you just simply bristol at the norms and the

1272
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:42,439
expectations that the society around you expects you to conform to,

1273
01:28:43,239 --> 01:28:46,079
that you have to go through this sort of tortured

1274
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:51,800
psychological transformation where you're taking your native sort of again,

1275
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,199
if we want to invoke e. Michael Jones, if you

1276
01:28:54,359 --> 01:28:58,319
have a sort of like radical transgressive impulse, but you

1277
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:04,239
necessarily have have to function in a society that will

1278
01:29:04,359 --> 01:29:06,680
not tolerate that. And I don't know about you. I

1279
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:10,319
didn't go around as a kid like necessarily feeling like

1280
01:29:10,399 --> 01:29:13,640
I had to flip everyone the bird and flip over

1281
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:17,199
every table and piss in everyone's cheerios. I mean I

1282
01:29:17,279 --> 01:29:20,479
had youthful vigor. I think every young man growing up

1283
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:25,119
has like a certain desire to impress themselves upon the

1284
01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:28,119
environment around them, But to the degree where you like

1285
01:29:28,399 --> 01:29:31,720
are constantly like foaming at the mouth with like I

1286
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:34,920
can't be the way they want me to be. I

1287
01:29:35,079 --> 01:29:37,640
refuse to do anything they want me to do. I

1288
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:40,880
hate them, and yet I've got to I've got to

1289
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,239
abide by them anyway, Like reaction formation, where you've got

1290
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:50,439
a there's a fundamental dissonance between your behaviors and your

1291
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:55,840
actual internal experience. That doesn't I feel like you don't

1292
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:58,319
really see that. Some of the places you do see

1293
01:29:58,399 --> 01:30:03,359
that are frankly like pathological work environments. You know, like

1294
01:30:04,079 --> 01:30:07,359
you see them really you kind of only see them

1295
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:13,399
in this sort of post Jewish privileged world where everything

1296
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:19,520
is sort of remade and reformed to conform to a

1297
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,800
sort of Jewish morality that I mean, yeah, when I

1298
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:25,119
go to my if I have my office job and

1299
01:30:25,199 --> 01:30:28,840
I hate my deiboss and I have to smile at

1300
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:31,479
him even though I'm cursing under my breath, like you don't.

1301
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:35,800
I mean, that's that makes sense. But then again, it's

1302
01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:39,680
like the same framework, like you are an outsider. You

1303
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:44,479
are sort of a marginalized person in this existing ecosystem,

1304
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:49,079
and you've got to find a way to navigate it.

1305
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:55,119
Sublimation is another one, channeling unacceptable impulses into socially acceptable activities.

1306
01:30:56,600 --> 01:31:00,840
I mean, doesn't that describe tikon Olem. It's like, it's like,

1307
01:31:01,239 --> 01:31:05,199
I got into this argument with this Jewish woman on

1308
01:31:05,239 --> 01:31:07,880
Twitter the other day. She's like one of these not

1309
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:12,319
to get all inside baseball Twitter micro communities on you

1310
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:15,039
and your audience. But she was part of this like

1311
01:31:15,159 --> 01:31:19,319
Hegelian egirl thing that was like a very minor social

1312
01:31:19,399 --> 01:31:24,000
media thing a year ago. And she's an ethnically Jewish

1313
01:31:24,079 --> 01:31:28,399
woman but a devout Christian, and over the course of

1314
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:35,119
this conversation, she's basically you know, she's being provoked because

1315
01:31:35,119 --> 01:31:38,439
she's she's she put up this post where she said

1316
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,039
how much she hates German people and that she confused

1317
01:31:43,279 --> 01:31:47,159
considers them a inferior people, and she prays to God

1318
01:31:47,239 --> 01:31:50,039
for forgiveness and she prais it the Germans pray to

1319
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:55,000
God for forgiveness too. It's like, Okay, if you have

1320
01:31:55,680 --> 01:32:01,760
these sort of tortured reactions to the world around you

1321
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:09,319
that you are trying to make acceptable to those around you, like,

1322
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:13,000
isn't that like isn't that what tikon Olham was? Because

1323
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,239
she's basically saying, like, I'm a really good Christian because

1324
01:32:15,239 --> 01:32:18,560
I want to bring about this Christian eschatology. And isn't

1325
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,039
that really the same thing as tikon Olam. Isn't there

1326
01:32:21,159 --> 01:32:25,640
no difference between Christ coming back to Earth and also

1327
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:29,079
I'm going to destroy all your icons and overturn all

1328
01:32:29,119 --> 01:32:31,279
of your world orders. It's like, actually, I think there

1329
01:32:31,359 --> 01:32:34,600
is a fundamental difference between what the return of Christ

1330
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:39,680
means versus I'm literally going to destroy every representation of

1331
01:32:40,279 --> 01:32:46,119
gentile society that exists around you. When you look at these,

1332
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:50,800
you know the history of Jewish intellectuals driving civil rights

1333
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:55,119
legislation or DEI or woke or whatever. What are they

1334
01:32:55,199 --> 01:33:01,279
doing if not masking their sort of radical transgressive spirit

1335
01:33:02,199 --> 01:33:08,359
via a masking it with this sort of like liberal

1336
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:15,880
Christian morality or this liberal Enlightenment value system. It's it's

1337
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,199
actually difficult to look at some of these Freudian ideas

1338
01:33:19,359 --> 01:33:26,119
and not see them as dressed up vehicles for basically

1339
01:33:26,199 --> 01:33:27,079
Jewish impulses.

1340
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:31,439
Speaker 1: Well, it's.

1341
01:33:34,359 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 2: If you believe in.

1342
01:33:37,079 --> 01:33:40,640
Speaker 1: The authoritarian personality. The book from nineteen forty nine nineteen

1343
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:45,640
fifty commissioned by the jew American Jewish Committee, put out

1344
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:50,439
by Adorno and the Frankfurt School, which basically lays out

1345
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:55,600
how to destroy Anglo society so that they'll never be

1346
01:33:55,680 --> 01:34:01,640
fascism again. All of this makes sense because if Jews

1347
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:05,680
are going to be safe and no longer persecuted, you're

1348
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,800
either going to have to turn the population into Jews,

1349
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:14,159
like instill Jewish values, those Jewish values you know of

1350
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:23,479
basically chaos of rebellion against everything that historically Anglo Europeans

1351
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:29,279
held deer. You're either going to have to do that,

1352
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:31,960
or you're going to have to figure out a way

1353
01:34:32,039 --> 01:34:38,479
to sedate them, you know, with pornography and basically attack everything,

1354
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:41,239
and then you know, in the end, if they start

1355
01:34:41,319 --> 01:34:45,359
fighting back, then you make it. You make antisemitism illegal,

1356
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:50,399
you start, you know, persecuting people who are you know,

1357
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:53,560
starting to ask the Jewish question. And I mean, I

1358
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:57,359
think that's like the last hundred years is pretty much

1359
01:34:57,399 --> 01:35:02,399
a picture of that of Tea and themol On basically

1360
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:07,680
destroying seeking to destroy Western culture so that Jews can

1361
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:10,199
fit in, so that they can blend in. So basically

1362
01:35:10,359 --> 01:35:15,119
now everybody is, everybody has is carrying their their ideals.

1363
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:21,720
But also you know, they don't seem as the outsider anymore,

1364
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:23,920
because that's been the problem that you know, that was

1365
01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:26,479
the problem in Russia. The problem in Russia was it

1366
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:32,000
was like you had gigantic diaspora German you know, in

1367
01:35:32,119 --> 01:35:36,760
the in the seventeen eighteen hundreds, you had German populations

1368
01:35:37,079 --> 01:35:41,239
in Ukraine and they were thriving and they you know,

1369
01:35:41,359 --> 01:35:45,079
the czar's leadership loved them. But then you had this

1370
01:35:45,239 --> 01:35:48,479
other group that just stuck out like a sore thumb

1371
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:52,800
because they were so different than everyone else, and whenever

1372
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:54,720
you tried to deal with them, it was like, no,

1373
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:58,720
we have to remain different. And then when laws were

1374
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:01,760
changed and the Stettle is broken, the Schttle system was

1375
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:06,479
broken up. It was just this reaction of trying to

1376
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:10,720
push back against that, trying to trying to keep your traditions,

1377
01:36:11,199 --> 01:36:14,159
but also this group of people who are escaping from

1378
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:17,680
their traditions, and they're like, Okay, now I can do

1379
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:20,920
anything I want. And in order for me to be

1380
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:23,079
able to do anything I want, I have to basically

1381
01:36:23,199 --> 01:36:26,439
create a world where people can do anything they want.

1382
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,159
I mean, that's that's what it seems like to me.

1383
01:36:30,359 --> 01:36:34,000
That's of all the reading I've done you two hundred

1384
01:36:34,079 --> 01:36:39,840
years together, Jews in the Economic Life by Sombart Shahaks,

1385
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:44,640
Jewish History, Jewish Religion, You Gentiles, Maurice Samuels, it just

1386
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:48,680
basically seems like the It's like we were this people,

1387
01:36:49,039 --> 01:36:52,359
were these people who've always been on the outside. We

1388
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:55,520
are always going to be on the outside. So we

1389
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:59,159
have to create a society that looks like us, so

1390
01:36:59,279 --> 01:37:03,560
that we're no longer you know, we're no longer persecuted,

1391
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:07,520
we're no longer seen as the outsider. And then you

1392
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:09,720
throw into the fact that they get their own country

1393
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:11,960
and they have nuclear weapons, and then that's a whole

1394
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:13,399
different discussion.

1395
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:22,239
Speaker 2: It's sort of like an impossible mission to set out

1396
01:37:22,359 --> 01:37:26,279
upon because, as larent mentions, towards the end of this

1397
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:33,960
essay the sort of self persecuting tendency within Jewish society.

1398
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:40,199
I mean, we're living now in the most judaized version

1399
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:44,279
of the United States that has ever existed, and the

1400
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:49,520
sense of these people as being persecuted seems like it's

1401
01:37:50,319 --> 01:37:53,960
more pronounced. It's certainly more pronounced than in my forty

1402
01:37:54,039 --> 01:37:57,560
years on this planet, my twenty five years odd as

1403
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:03,920
a thinking adult, aware of global dynamics. I mean, they

1404
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,800
didn't have this same oh my god, we're on the

1405
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:10,800
precipice of Hitler two attitude in the nineteen nineties. They

1406
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:14,840
didn't have it in the two thousands. It only started

1407
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:17,479
to creep up in the twenty tens now that we're

1408
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:19,359
halfway through this decade.

1409
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:24,279
Speaker 1: Even because we have the we have the Internet, and

1410
01:38:24,439 --> 01:38:29,119
we have cameras on our phones, and information can be sent,

1411
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:34,239
you know, can be sent instantaneously, and their people are

1412
01:38:34,359 --> 01:38:40,000
watching them basically incinerate populations. Yeah, it's I mean, how

1413
01:38:40,159 --> 01:38:42,600
is that not going? And then you know, and that

1414
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,960
would be bad enough if it was just this country

1415
01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:50,239
six thousand miles away, but then you have people who

1416
01:38:50,319 --> 01:38:53,800
are claiming this to be the same as those people

1417
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:56,840
over there that are doing it in your own country,

1418
01:38:57,279 --> 01:39:00,840
who are defending it and calling you evil and calling

1419
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:04,479
you an anti Semite and basically saying that you you've

1420
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:09,439
given up your right to exist anymore if you criticize this,

1421
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:12,279
if you say that it's evil, if you say that,

1422
01:39:12,479 --> 01:39:15,039
how can you do this? What is it inside of

1423
01:39:15,119 --> 01:39:21,239
you that allows you to do this? And it's just information.

1424
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,600
That's the thing that changed in the nineteen nineties. You know,

1425
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,880
they could they could go into Gaza or the West

1426
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:30,640
Bank and they could do what they did, and the

1427
01:39:31,399 --> 01:39:33,479
world only knew what the New York Times and what

1428
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,439
you know, a couple a couple cable news outlets and

1429
01:39:37,880 --> 01:39:41,920
the local news told them. But now that everybody can

1430
01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:45,239
see it and it's exposed, you know, and it's basically

1431
01:39:45,319 --> 01:39:48,479
it's like they're back in Russia. They're back in Russia

1432
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:50,880
where they're amongst people who you know, it's like my

1433
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:54,880
you know, my mother's family came from is from Galicia.

1434
01:39:55,039 --> 01:40:00,880
They're you know, Hungarian Hungarians and Pollock's who were around

1435
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,920
them in Galicia, and like they came here in like

1436
01:40:04,039 --> 01:40:07,920
nineteen ten and nineteen eleven, and you know, I'm growing

1437
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:11,000
up and I'm like, why is my grandmother, Well that's

1438
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:13,520
why I'm talking about my great grandparents, and I'm thinking,

1439
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:18,319
why is my grandmother hate Jewish people so much? And

1440
01:40:18,359 --> 01:40:22,000
it's like, oh, yeah, because they because they lived in

1441
01:40:22,319 --> 01:40:24,920
they lived in basically what was Pale Settlement at the time,

1442
01:40:25,640 --> 01:40:27,800
and they got to see the way that they acted

1443
01:40:28,239 --> 01:40:31,319
and they got to see how revolutionary they were, and

1444
01:40:31,359 --> 01:40:35,359
they got to see them assassinate like public officials and

1445
01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:40,119
everyone knew who was doing it, and that's what's happening now.

1446
01:40:40,239 --> 01:40:42,720
It was like back then they couldn't hide it because

1447
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,359
you know, they were in one section and they stood

1448
01:40:45,399 --> 01:40:48,279
out like a sore thumb. And now everyone can see

1449
01:40:48,319 --> 01:40:50,520
what they're doing because we have the Internet and it's

1450
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:55,279
blasted everywhere, and they start their own telegram channels and

1451
01:40:55,479 --> 01:41:00,960
post videos of them doing it, like the seventy two

1452
01:41:01,039 --> 01:41:04,159
Virgins channel that was run by IDFY by Unit eighty

1453
01:41:04,159 --> 01:41:07,239
two hundred, and they were advertising what they were doing,

1454
01:41:08,359 --> 01:41:11,760
so let the world know. And it's like okay, yeah,

1455
01:41:12,359 --> 01:41:14,960
well how do we how are we supposed to deal

1456
01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:19,159
with that? I mean, and if you ask questions, it's like, okay,

1457
01:41:19,239 --> 01:41:21,439
why are you doing this? Why you know, why are

1458
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:24,319
you saying that, you know, every time a baby dies

1459
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:28,760
there was a terrorist hiding behind them. Yeah, it's like,

1460
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:34,560
I mean, how do you You can't rational I can't rationalize.

1461
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:38,359
You know, a terrorist in this country hiding under, you know,

1462
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:42,359
a building in downtown New York and dropping a bomb

1463
01:41:42,439 --> 01:41:45,479
on that building to get to get one terrorist. I

1464
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:48,079
don't see how that can I don't see how you

1465
01:41:48,159 --> 01:41:51,920
can do that. But oh everybody in that building is evil.

1466
01:41:53,319 --> 01:41:58,760
What I mean you talk about I mean, this goes

1467
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:03,079
beyond gas lighting, this goes to Holy fuck, do you

1468
01:42:03,199 --> 01:42:05,960
think do you think I'm I mean, how fucking low?

1469
01:42:06,239 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 2: You know? What?

1470
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:07,520
Speaker 1: What do you think about i Q?

1471
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:08,039
Speaker 2: Is?

1472
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:12,800
Speaker 1: I mean you think I'm I think.

1473
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I must not be as extremely online as I thought,

1474
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:20,119
because I've never heard of this channel you mentioned, and

1475
01:42:20,199 --> 01:42:23,079
now I'm looking at a Jerusalem Post article about it,

1476
01:42:23,199 --> 01:42:29,560
and Holy Christ, that is that's yes, Uh, it's hard to.

1477
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,920
Speaker 1: They were their own fucking atrocities.

1478
01:42:34,039 --> 01:42:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't imagine that that level of of of barbarism,

1479
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:42,159
which is funny because we're told that they are the

1480
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:46,000
outpost of Western democracy in the Middle East, and that's

1481
01:42:46,199 --> 01:42:50,039
that's barbarism. That makes you know, uh what they did

1482
01:42:50,119 --> 01:42:54,199
take a dafi look like uh, you know, an elementary

1483
01:42:54,279 --> 01:42:56,640
school beat down, you know, like you're in the backyard,

1484
01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:59,680
you got roughed up behind the fucking slide or whatever.

1485
01:43:00,199 --> 01:43:02,960
Like that's that's like child's play compared to the stuff

1486
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:08,119
that's on there. Just to go back the section or

1487
01:43:08,159 --> 01:43:13,199
the the excerpt you've read about the woman expressing guilt

1488
01:43:13,399 --> 01:43:17,640
over circumcising her son. I mean again, it's it's just

1489
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:23,520
the persecution is coming from inside the house is really,

1490
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:28,279
I think the punchline of this essay. Whatever we want

1491
01:43:28,319 --> 01:43:33,199
to say about Freud's genuine intentions or his genuine malice

1492
01:43:33,359 --> 01:43:36,520
or not. Maybe he was totally unconscious, Maybe there was

1493
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:40,319
no malice whatsoever. Maybe he just was a wacky guy

1494
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:42,920
with a weird sense of humor and which, from time

1495
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:47,159
to time say really condemned, you know, self condemning things

1496
01:43:47,239 --> 01:43:54,560
to his peers and whatever. Just the nature of that community,

1497
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:58,000
and they're, like you said, their their need to separate

1498
01:43:58,079 --> 01:44:04,079
themselves out from every their population. They do that through barbarism,

1499
01:44:04,159 --> 01:44:08,319
they do that through terrorism, and you know the sort

1500
01:44:08,359 --> 01:44:13,640
of tragedy. Say this trying to be you know, a

1501
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:15,560
little bit careful with my language here, I mean, the

1502
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:19,000
tragedy of it is that they are still human and

1503
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:24,199
that they obviously are tortured by these things they do

1504
01:44:24,319 --> 01:44:27,960
to themselves that they like. On the one hand, they

1505
01:44:28,399 --> 01:44:31,760
want to do it, and they seem to consciously understand

1506
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:37,600
the purpose of circumcising themselves, of doing the brits, of

1507
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:41,039
doing all these things that they do, these ritualistic ways

1508
01:44:41,159 --> 01:44:45,239
of marking their identity and cohering their community, like they

1509
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:48,640
understand the role that it functions, and they seem to

1510
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:55,359
understand the brutality of it, but they nonetheless carry the

1511
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:59,000
toll of those consequences. And then they're out in the

1512
01:44:59,039 --> 01:45:02,760
world amongst us, you know, and and and that's what

1513
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:08,079
makes sort of these Freudian defense mechanisms kind of so significant,

1514
01:45:08,119 --> 01:45:11,720
because if you, if you, you know, imagine yourself in

1515
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:17,479
the shoes of somebody who brutalized their infant son because

1516
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:20,479
it was part of their their religion and part of

1517
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:22,920
their identity to do that, and they had been doing

1518
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:27,479
it for countless generations, and they know that it's brutalizing,

1519
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,600
and the only way they can cope with it is

1520
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:35,439
to sort of become like this cold, distant tyrant to

1521
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:39,359
their own children, and then you're the child that grows

1522
01:45:39,439 --> 01:45:44,479
up like that. You grow up basically cattle prod you know,

1523
01:45:45,199 --> 01:45:50,600
within seven days of being born, and it's your parents

1524
01:45:51,239 --> 01:45:51,680
go ahead.

1525
01:45:52,119 --> 01:45:57,000
Speaker 1: It's worse than that. Okay, So not only are you

1526
01:45:57,039 --> 01:46:00,840
brought up that way, you're also brought up told that

1527
01:46:01,039 --> 01:46:05,439
everybody wants to kill you, that historically everybody has wanted

1528
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:10,119
to kill you, and you're told that your God's chosen

1529
01:46:11,079 --> 01:46:15,359
mm hmm, that we are this special people. Now, I'm

1530
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:20,920
not going to pretend like I've read, you know, papers

1531
01:46:21,079 --> 01:46:25,279
and books on narcissism, but to me, all of those

1532
01:46:25,319 --> 01:46:29,720
things combined seem to create sup like the greatest army

1533
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:31,920
of super narcissists that have ever walked the planet.

1534
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:37,560
Speaker 2: Complex narcissists too, because if you think about so just

1535
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:40,319
I mean to put a little bit of technical technical

1536
01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:46,319
language on you, I mean, there are multiple kinds of

1537
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:54,880
narcissists and and and there's it's interesting. I mean, on

1538
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:58,880
the one hand, you have like the categorical personality disorder

1539
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:04,720
of narcissism, but there's like grandiose narcissists, which is to say,

1540
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:08,159
overt narcissists. That's like the kind of stereotype that we

1541
01:47:08,239 --> 01:47:10,439
all have in our mind of like the guy who

1542
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:12,640
gets out in front of the crowd to be the

1543
01:47:12,680 --> 01:47:15,239
big man. You know, That's what we all tend to

1544
01:47:15,239 --> 01:47:21,199
think of as narcissists. But then there's communal narcissists, there's

1545
01:47:21,439 --> 01:47:30,119
antagonistic narcissists, there are malignant narcissists, covert narcissists, and it

1546
01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:36,479
seems like in any given moment, an afflicted Jewish person

1547
01:47:36,680 --> 01:47:40,399
can kind of like oscillate between all of them. They

1548
01:47:40,439 --> 01:47:45,079
are the grand standing moralizer or the grand standing like

1549
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,640
I am a superhero. But then there's also like the

1550
01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:53,000
like Jonathan green Black type of shrinking back where anything

1551
01:47:53,119 --> 01:47:56,399
you do, anything you say is an attack on me,

1552
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,960
makes me feel small, makes me feel like you're being pure.

1553
01:48:03,319 --> 01:48:06,520
The type of narcissism where you know, like like the

1554
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,479
social worker or the community organizer or the you know,

1555
01:48:11,079 --> 01:48:15,600
social justice activist, where they're masking their narcissism in this

1556
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:22,439
kind of grand, almost christlike manner of being everything to everyone.

1557
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:27,880
I mean, they they seem to like hit every flavor

1558
01:48:28,079 --> 01:48:34,399
of narcissism imaginable, and that that almost I mean, this

1559
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:35,680
is one of the things where if you want to

1560
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:38,199
get racist about your psychology, you have to take a

1561
01:48:38,279 --> 01:48:41,920
step back and say, like, Okay, is is narcissist a

1562
01:48:42,119 --> 01:48:46,880
racial type before it's even a psychological type. And if

1563
01:48:46,920 --> 01:48:50,600
it's a racial type, then how do you even categorize

1564
01:48:51,239 --> 01:48:57,000
narcissism as a sort of general psychological tendency when it

1565
01:48:57,119 --> 01:49:02,119
looks different from one group to the next, and even

1566
01:49:02,239 --> 01:49:08,119
within one group, it looks different based on the context,

1567
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:13,239
Like when you sort of generalize narcissism to to like

1568
01:49:13,399 --> 01:49:16,399
the whole of the human species, Like the most common

1569
01:49:16,479 --> 01:49:19,840
ones are like the timid you know, I'm I feel

1570
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:23,159
bad about myself and my narcissism is a is a

1571
01:49:23,319 --> 01:49:27,920
cope versus the sort of like strong narcissistic type where

1572
01:49:28,479 --> 01:49:32,359
it's it's a it's a the word I'm looking for,

1573
01:49:33,199 --> 01:49:36,840
sort of an intractable personality style that always shows up

1574
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:39,199
in every situation that they're in. It's like, those are

1575
01:49:39,239 --> 01:49:42,159
the most common types of narcissisms of narcissism that you

1576
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:44,640
see in the world. And maybe you could say that's

1577
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:47,960
a sort of general tendency speaking to whether you know,

1578
01:49:48,079 --> 01:49:52,199
people either have inflated sense of self worth deflated sense

1579
01:49:52,239 --> 01:49:54,600
of self worth, but Jews have this sort of like

1580
01:49:56,039 --> 01:50:03,560
complex narcissism. That is that again, it defies generalizing to

1581
01:50:04,079 --> 01:50:07,520
a to the level of a universal human condition.

1582
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 1: Let's leave it there. Please promote you have you have books,

1583
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:18,760
you have yes, please promote.

1584
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:21,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well again, thanks for having me on. I love

1585
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:23,000
talking to you. I wish I had more to offer

1586
01:50:23,119 --> 01:50:25,960
during the essay. I was just really wrapped up in

1587
01:50:26,399 --> 01:50:29,399
getting through that with you. Definitely thought provoking when we

1588
01:50:29,479 --> 01:50:31,800
got to the end of it. But check me out

1589
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:34,520
on Antelope Hill Publishing dot com for my new book,

1590
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:39,000
Intolerant Interpretations. Check out Imperium Press for my two previous books,

1591
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:44,359
American Extremist and Understanding Conspiracy Theories. On Substack. I haven't

1592
01:50:44,359 --> 01:50:46,319
published anything in a while, and I might not for

1593
01:50:46,399 --> 01:50:48,520
a while because I'm busy doing a lot of shows

1594
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:52,680
like with you Janeel dot substack dot com and on

1595
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:56,239
Twitter or x Still, Janeel, thank you so much, Pete.

1596
01:50:56,239 --> 01:50:58,560
It's a pleasure. Hope your audience enjoys appreciate it.

1597
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:00,119
Speaker 1: Josh, yeah, man. Thanks Y