WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Ever noticed how some of the most legendary movies, TV shows,

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<v Speaker 1>and songs were never supposed to work.

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<v Speaker 2>Box office flops on paper, network rejects, songs the artists

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even want to record.

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<v Speaker 1>And yet boom instant classic cultural obsession songs that have

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<v Speaker 1>played everywhere NonStop for decades.

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<v Speaker 2>We dig into the projects that were supposed to flop

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<v Speaker 2>and accidentally became icons.

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<v Speaker 1>Bad ideas, bad timing, somehow perfect results.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the accidental legends, proving that failure is just

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<v Speaker 2>a success that showed up late. Well, Matt, if you

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<v Speaker 2>had one wish, what would it be?

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<v Speaker 1>Wooh, I don't know. I wish I had. I wish

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<v Speaker 1>I was ready for all the things that I wish

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<v Speaker 1>I was ready for.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that kind of like you wish you had a

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<v Speaker 2>dime for every dime you had?

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I was ready for all the things I

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<v Speaker 1>think I need to be ready for, But I'm not.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really deep.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been thinking a lot about just the future and

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<v Speaker 1>the everything that's happening, and I feel exceedingly unprepared for that.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've just been thinking about all the things that

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<v Speaker 1>I need to do, and I just wish all of

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<v Speaker 1>those things were already done.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's much deeper than my response. I'm just thinking

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<v Speaker 2>at my age, I wish my back would stop filing

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<v Speaker 2>complaints every morning. And here you are getting all philosophical.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry you asked.

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<v Speaker 2>That's okay. Well, today we're going to talk about the

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<v Speaker 2>movie Big.

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<v Speaker 1>Big, So big big huge.

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<v Speaker 2>I am big big, But before big was a big deal,

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<v Speaker 2>it was well small, a wish on a carnival machine,

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<v Speaker 2>a kid sized problem, and suddenly a grown man in

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<v Speaker 2>a suit is playing with toys and panicking about adulthood.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the story of how something that started little

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<v Speaker 2>somehow became huge, A movie that sounds like it should

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<v Speaker 2>have been shut down in a conference room and instead

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<v Speaker 2>became one of the most emotionally bulletproof films of the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Eight is one of those movies where if you

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<v Speaker 1>described the plot out loud, hr slowly backs out of

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<v Speaker 1>the room.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we're going to talk about why on paper

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<v Speaker 2>this thing is a nightmare. And that's not hindsight, that's

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<v Speaker 2>exactly how executives felt at the time. So let's dig in.

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<v Speaker 2>The movie Big was originally the idea of screenwriters Gary Ross,

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<v Speaker 2>who would later write screenplays for Dave Pleasantville and The

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<v Speaker 2>Hunger Games, and also Anne Spielberg. Yes, that's Spielberg. She's

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<v Speaker 2>also known for writing on some of Steven Spielberg's Amazing

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<v Speaker 2>Stories TV series, and as an uncredited writer for Small

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<v Speaker 2>Soldiers That was a what if we did a movie

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<v Speaker 2>that's toy story and child's play mixed together, basically creepy.

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<v Speaker 2>The script for Big was developed under very interesting circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>It was originally going to be a Steven Spielberg project

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<v Speaker 2>and they were going to have Spielberg direct it, and

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<v Speaker 2>get this, they were going to cast Harrison Ford to

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<v Speaker 2>star as Josh Baskin.

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<v Speaker 1>This is wild to me because Harrison Ford does not

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<v Speaker 1>read as wide eyed child discovering a trend ampline. There

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<v Speaker 1>is nothing childlike or even really all that joyful about

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<v Speaker 1>Harrison Ford to.

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<v Speaker 2>Me, Hey kid, I'm Big. I don't know why can you?

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta get out of here. But unfortunately, or maybe

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<v Speaker 2>fortunately for the legacy of this film, Steven Spielberg wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to spend more time at home with his family after

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<v Speaker 2>the birth of his son, so he ended up dropping

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<v Speaker 2>out and Harrison Ford dropped out. So this probably quietly

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<v Speaker 2>saved the movie in the long run. It eventually went

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<v Speaker 2>to James Brooks as the producer. He brought the project

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<v Speaker 2>to Penny Marshall, who eventually directed the film with Tom Hanks.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk about both of them in a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's quite the audacious statement. Harrison Ford and Steven

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<v Speaker 1>Spielberg dropped out of the movie and that probably saved it.

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<v Speaker 1>What a statement.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute, Steven Spielberg, Harrison Ford, they're leaving the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>That's okay, we're gonna make a killer film anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll show you it's gonna be awesome. And it did.

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<v Speaker 2>It turned out that way. But why was Big expected

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<v Speaker 2>to fail in the first place. It was considered a

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<v Speaker 2>high concept, calm with a little bit of a problematic premise.

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<v Speaker 2>On paper, Big sounds like a movie executives would immediately

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<v Speaker 2>get nervous about. Let's not dance around it. Big is

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<v Speaker 2>about a twelve year old in a thirty year old

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<v Speaker 2>body who.

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<v Speaker 1>Dates an adult woman. Do you mean sleepover? Well, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>but I get to be on top.

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<v Speaker 2>Boom boom, boom boom. Every studio executive just felt like

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<v Speaker 2>their soul was leaving their body.

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<v Speaker 1>This isn't prudishness. This is math, legal math.

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<v Speaker 2>The executives literally felt uneasy about it even in the eighties,

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean we're talking even before the cameras rolled.

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<v Speaker 2>You could just feel the tension in the boardroom. Some

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<v Speaker 2>of their additional concerns and worries about it were, is

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<v Speaker 2>the audience going to feel uncomfortable about this? Is the

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<v Speaker 2>tone of the film going to be too confusing? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it a family movie? Is it an adult comedy? So

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<v Speaker 2>the story walks this raise or thin line between whimsical

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<v Speaker 2>fantasy and accidental creepiness. One wrong joke, one poorly scene

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<v Speaker 2>in the entire movie, it would just collapse under the controversy.

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<v Speaker 2>More than one executive reportedly summed up the fear of

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<v Speaker 2>this film project like this. They said, this is a

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<v Speaker 2>comedy nobody knows how to market or defend, which.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the most terrifying sentence in Hollywood. That alone is

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<v Speaker 1>often enough to kill project.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk a minute about the tonal whiplash of

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<v Speaker 2>this and the risks involved. Big didn't really fit in

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<v Speaker 2>or slot into a neat box for Hollywood. For the executives,

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't really a kids movie. It's not a teen movie.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not a raunchy adult comedy, and it's not really

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<v Speaker 2>a pure fantasy film, and studios hate this. You know

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<v Speaker 2>what Hollywood prefers. They prefer clear audience targets, clean elevator pitches,

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<v Speaker 2>marketing strategies that fit on a post it. But Big

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<v Speaker 2>was essentially a coming of age movie for adults about

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<v Speaker 2>childhood with romance.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not an elevator pitch. That's an all in bet.

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<v Speaker 1>That kind of tonal ambiguity usually screams development nightmare. Executives

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<v Speaker 1>worry audiences won't know how to feel, or worse, won't

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<v Speaker 1>know whether they're allowed to laugh. Historically, movies that try

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<v Speaker 1>to be emotionally sincere and funny and fantastical they tend

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<v Speaker 1>to scare studios more than outright weird ones do.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition to the tonal risks, we need to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about Tom Hanks a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>You got to keep in mind, everybody, you got to

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<v Speaker 2>put your nineteen eighty eight hat on. Tom Hanks was

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<v Speaker 2>not a billable star yet. It's easy to forget this now,

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<v Speaker 2>but in nineteen eighty eight, Tom Hanks was not quote

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Hanks yet. It's funny. Matt my notes actually put

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<v Speaker 2>a trademark when I said it was not Tom Hanks,

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<v Speaker 2>like he's so popular and so big of a deal.

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<v Speaker 2>Now he's got his own trademark.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was no saving Private Ryan in nineteen eighty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>No, at this point, all he'd really done was well,

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<v Speaker 2>Bosom Buddies, which I love the show. Did you ever

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<v Speaker 2>watch Bosom Buddies? I never watched Bosom Buddies. I thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was hilarious. I thought Tom Hanks Peter Scillari were hilarious.

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<v Speaker 2>Plus the show also had Donna Dixon in it, and

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<v Speaker 2>what's wrong there?

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing?

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<v Speaker 2>And because of Bosom Buddies, that's why we went to

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<v Speaker 2>go see Splash and it was a hit. But it

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<v Speaker 2>was a comedy, maybe a little silly romantic comedy, but

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<v Speaker 2>it did well. Right after that, he did do a

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<v Speaker 2>raunchia adult comedy called Bachelor Party.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, here's the thing I was thinking about this earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>Splash was one of my favorites. I loved Daryl Hannah.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved the whole you know, Mermaid in New York

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<v Speaker 1>and all of the things happening, all the crazy zaniness.

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<v Speaker 1>That was fun to me. I didn't see Bosom Buddies

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna tell you, I don't think I ever saw

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<v Speaker 1>Bachelor Party. I don't know that I ever watched it.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen eighty eight was like, I was the right age

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<v Speaker 2>for Bachelor Party or Revenge of the Nerds, any of those.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember seeing Revenge of the Nerds. I don't remember

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<v Speaker 1>seeing Bachelor Party. I don't remember seeing Fraternity Vacation. Revenge

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<v Speaker 1>of the Nerds, I remember that.

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<v Speaker 2>Was the headliner. That was the A level. Bachelor Party

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be more like the B level.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and to be honest, I mean these were the

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<v Speaker 1>movies that I watched. If I was watching them, I

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<v Speaker 1>watched them on the sly. I don't remember a ton

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<v Speaker 1>of any anything about them.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting little note is that he actually did Bachelor Party

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<v Speaker 2>first and then did Splash. But when the executive started

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<v Speaker 2>watching Splash, you know, watching the dailies and getting an

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<v Speaker 2>early screening, they knew they had something with Splash, and

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<v Speaker 2>so they correctly withheld Bachelor Party until afterwards because they

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<v Speaker 2>knew Splash was going to put Tom Hanks in the stratosphere,

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<v Speaker 2>and they said, then we can put Bachelor Party out.

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<v Speaker 2>They knew that was going to be sort of a

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<v Speaker 2>smaller silly comedy, but they figured they could actually get

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<v Speaker 2>more money out of the ticket sales if they released

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<v Speaker 2>it after Splash. Makes sense to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they create the platform that they try to boost

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<v Speaker 1>up the movie on. That makes absolute sense. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>He also did a movie called The Money Pit with

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<v Speaker 2>Shelley Long and my family. We love Diane Chambers in

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<v Speaker 2>the TV show Cheers, and so there was that. That's

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<v Speaker 2>about all I can say about that movie.

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<v Speaker 1>It was eh, I loved The Money Pit. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>like The Money Pit as much as I love Splash.

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<v Speaker 1>I am married to someone who thinks The Money Pit

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<v Speaker 1>is the funniest movie in the world. When she was

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<v Speaker 1>a young lady and flipping loves a money Pit and

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<v Speaker 1>just remembers going to the theater and laughing through the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So so far, his career positioned him as a goofy

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<v Speaker 2>comic actor. He not a dramatic lead and definitely not

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<v Speaker 2>a romantic lead, so the studio concerns were very real.

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<v Speaker 2>Could he carry the emotional weight of this film? Could

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<v Speaker 2>audiences believe him as a child without finding him annoying?

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<v Speaker 2>What is broad comedy undercut sincerity?

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<v Speaker 1>How do you talk about that? A little bit? What

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<v Speaker 1>do you mean by that? Which question would his broad

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<v Speaker 1>comedy undercut sincerity?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so, okay, you didn't watch Bosom Buddies. Bosom Buddies

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<v Speaker 2>was your typical sitcom. So the comedy was loud, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there was no hinting or subtlety. It was we're funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at how funny we are? Okay, and Splash was

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<v Speaker 2>beween him and John Candy. It was a comedy whereas Big,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Big had to be tamed down a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>There was humor, but it was more focusing on this

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<v Speaker 2>kid who was trapped in an adult body trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure things out. And so they were worried that Tom

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<v Speaker 2>Hanks would be a little two out there and not

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<v Speaker 2>reserved to play a role that required more drama.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmm, okay, yeah, that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he, like I said, he'd never anchored a

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<v Speaker 2>prestige hit. You know, he hadn't proven that he could

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<v Speaker 2>break your heart. He only proved so far that he

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<v Speaker 2>could fall through floors and yell a lot facts. But

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<v Speaker 2>in hindsight, Big looks like density, I mean, destiny.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's see what you did there, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, it looked like a gamble though, So

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<v Speaker 2>here we go, Matt. Other actors considered for the adult

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<v Speaker 2>Josh Baskin, Right now, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna read the names, and you just honestly tell me

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<v Speaker 2>yes or no.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>John Travolta I put.

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<v Speaker 1>Down maybe, Yeah, he gets a no from me.

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<v Speaker 2>No for you, Kevin Costner, Steve Gutenberg, Yes, I agree,

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<v Speaker 2>Warren Baty, Hell no. Dennis Quaid maybe that's what I

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<v Speaker 2>put down. I said maybe, but he was really too old.

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<v Speaker 2>He was thirty four in eighty eight. But I did

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<v Speaker 2>like his charm, Like Interspace was one of my dreamscape.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are two kind of favorites of mine.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I think of him. Him and Kostner back then

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<v Speaker 1>were about, you know, baseball movies and westerns. That's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of I think of them the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>I can see Steve Gutenberg as a really top contender.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I always loved him in the Police Academy

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<v Speaker 2>movies and what was that other short circuit. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he had that charisma of an adult kind of being.

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<v Speaker 1>More youthful when he was funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's the right kind of funny for a movie

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<v Speaker 2>like Big for sure. How about Jeff Bridges. No, I

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<v Speaker 2>think he could totally have done it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he's talented enough to have pulled it off.

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<v Speaker 1>But why why do you need him to be talented

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<v Speaker 1>enough to pull it off?

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<v Speaker 2>I know your answer to the next one, Sean Penn

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<v Speaker 2>new way, you're saying it like speccoli, But I'm thinking

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<v Speaker 2>by then he's already doing like Bad Boys and Colors

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<v Speaker 2>and some of these other dramatic films. I think he

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<v Speaker 2>would take it way too seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, Spaccoli, he could have tapped into some

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<v Speaker 1>of that for Big.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still saying no. But to me, in my mind,

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<v Speaker 1>Hanks is the perfect pick for this, There's no doubt

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<v Speaker 1>about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the next name I'm gonna read you was who

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<v Speaker 2>they actually seriously considered to be cast as the adult Josh.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you ready for this?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Robert de Niro what yep? Only he wanted six million

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<v Speaker 2>dollars to do it. They were ready, I mean they

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<v Speaker 2>were ready to rewrite the Josh character as a street smart,

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<v Speaker 2>meaner kid. Can you imagine in a mirror universe where

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<v Speaker 2>Big was a dark character drama directed by Martin Scorsese,

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<v Speaker 2>Josh Baskin realizes adulthood is a trap and beats Zoltar

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<v Speaker 2>with a tire iron. You think you can make me

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<v Speaker 2>big and get away with it? You I ought of you.

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<v Speaker 2>No Big Rated R starts Friday as your local theaters. No,

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<v Speaker 2>please know, Thank goodness we got Tom Hanks. Let's go

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<v Speaker 2>back and talk about the concept of the film. Hollywood

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<v Speaker 2>already had trust issues with this genre, and it caused

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<v Speaker 2>the studios to have their own degree of trauma from

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<v Speaker 2>the history of these fantasy comedy hybrids. You know, like

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<v Speaker 2>for every Freaky Friday, there's eighteen Again.

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<v Speaker 1>Like for every all of Me, there's vice versa.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, body swap movies were mostly seen as disposable gimmicks,

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<v Speaker 2>the latest fad.

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<v Speaker 1>The fear wasn't that big would be bad, It was

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<v Speaker 1>that it would be forgettable. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>The studio graveyard was full of movies involving magical realism.

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<v Speaker 2>You had a do Krull, Return to Oz. None of

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<v Speaker 2>those did very well, although I will argue to my

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<v Speaker 2>grave that I think Krull is a great movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I love Kraull. Okay, not on my Bingo car today.

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<v Speaker 1>Any sentence involving Xanadu, Kroll and Return to.

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<v Speaker 2>Oz wish fulfillment fantasies like Labyrinth. Despite becoming a beloved

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<v Speaker 2>fantasy classic, the film was not a box office hit.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a disappointment upon its release. So here's what

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<v Speaker 2>Big does. That's quietly radical. One rule, A wish comes true.

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<v Speaker 2>No exposition dumps, no scientists, no metaphysical explanations, no ticking clock.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Zoltar machine. He grants the wish, he literally disappears.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. The fantasy exists to serve the emotion, not

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<v Speaker 2>the logic. You know, the movie never pauses to explain

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<v Speaker 2>itself because Josh doesn't understand it either. That's important. That's key.

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<v Speaker 2>When you watch later films, you know, like Freaky Friday

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three that suffered from a heavy first

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<v Speaker 2>act setup. You have scenes that are establishing the mother

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<v Speaker 2>daughter conflict, you know, their inability to understand each other,

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<v Speaker 2>YadA YadA, and then of course the high stakes, high

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<v Speaker 2>stress of the impending wedding. It just it takes too long.

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<v Speaker 2>The interesting thing about Big, I always like is the

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<v Speaker 2>simplicity of it. You know, he becomes Big, he goes

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<v Speaker 2>out in the adult world, and there's no pressure or worry.

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<v Speaker 2>We as an audience. We're not worried about him altering

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<v Speaker 2>the timeline or messing anything up. It's just happening in

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<v Speaker 2>real time, in real life, and the only thing he's

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<v Speaker 2>wanting to do is to figure out how to go

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<v Speaker 2>back to being a kid. And there's not even any

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<v Speaker 2>rules to worry about there. There there's no deadline of

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<v Speaker 2>if you can't find this machine by twelve o'clock at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the month. It's just I gotta find

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<v Speaker 2>the machine, and once I do, then supposedly I can

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<v Speaker 2>make a wish. And they don't even promise that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember, he was just like, I think that's.

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<v Speaker 1>What I should do.

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<v Speaker 2>Big feels like a fairy tale, you know, it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>slightly mysterious, it's emotionally intuitive. Later films feel more like

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<v Speaker 2>a sitcom premise stretched into ninety minutes. That's all I'm

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<v Speaker 2>saying that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I agree with that. Big.

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<v Speaker 2>It did not just smoothly glide into production. Originally Fox

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<v Speaker 2>had the rights to develop this picture, and they passed

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<v Speaker 2>because they had worries about the budget and they weren't

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<v Speaker 2>certain about the creative direction of this. They didn't understand

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<v Speaker 2>is it a kid's movie?

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<v Speaker 1>Wait?

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<v Speaker 2>As an adult. What's the fantasy? They didn't understand it.

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<v Speaker 2>But then comes Penny Marshall. She personally fought to move

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<v Speaker 2>this to Columbia Pictures. And let's talk about Penny Marshall

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<v Speaker 2>for a minute. Hilarious and Laverne and Shirley, right, yeah, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as directing, well, she was pretty new.

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<v Speaker 2>On top of that, there was the existing sexism aspect

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<v Speaker 2>in the industry in the nineteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Eighty That is a shocking statement.

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<v Speaker 2>Shocking, I tell you, shocking. No, she was faced with

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<v Speaker 2>the prevailing and misguided belief that women could not handle

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<v Speaker 2>the pressure or management of large budget studio films. Of

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<v Speaker 2>course we know this is I mean, later on we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to get some amazing movies from the likes of

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<v Speaker 2>Patty Jenkins, who did Monster and Wonder Woman. Mm hmmm,

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<v Speaker 2>Sophia Coppola Lost in Translation with Bill Murray, okay, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course Catherine Bigelow who did The hurt Locker and

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<v Speaker 2>then another eighties film, Near Dark Love The hurt Locker. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>great stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Was Penny Marshall the trailblazer on female directors?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, she's certainly not the first female director, but she

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<v Speaker 2>is widely recognized as the first woman to direct a

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<v Speaker 2>film that grossed over one hundred million at the US

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<v Speaker 2>box office.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so she was the one that did it big.

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<v Speaker 1>You see what I did there? Oh boy, Hey, that

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't even on purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>Her previous directorial experience was only one movie, Jumping Jack

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<v Speaker 2>Flash with Whoopi Goldberg, and that had production troubles. It

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<v Speaker 2>got mixed reviews. Studio executives were hesitant to trust her

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<v Speaker 2>with another major project. The script went through multiple tonal drafts.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of the earlier versions leaned more on the sexual

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<v Speaker 2>aspects and humor. Others went broader and more slapstick in nature.

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<v Speaker 2>Several drafts tried and failed to clarify the fantasy refer

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<v Speaker 2>back to when we were talking about setting up too

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<v Speaker 2>many rules. But the movie survived largely because Penny Marshall

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<v Speaker 2>believed deeply in it. Her entire approach was, if we

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<v Speaker 2>stopped caring about Josh, the movie dies. That's it. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the thesis, and all the key creatives insisted on emotional grounding.

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<v Speaker 1>That's an interesting concept. If we stopped caring about Josh,

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<v Speaker 1>the movie dies, it's not just a concept. It becomes

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<v Speaker 1>the organizing factor. Of everything that they're doing. I really

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<v Speaker 1>really like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, normally, this kind of turbulence, it's basically a death sentence.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's it's killed more than one project. They

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<v Speaker 2>even considered that maybe they should just release this film

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<v Speaker 2>direct to video.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, back then, that's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I remember renting direct to video movies.

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<v Speaker 2>They were always sort of the b C level, low

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<v Speaker 2>budget just considering how successful Big was, how well regarded

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<v Speaker 2>it is that at one point before they started shooting,

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<v Speaker 2>they said, well, I mean, we could at least make

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<v Speaker 2>it a VHS film. That's insane.

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<v Speaker 1>That's crazy because I didn't even think that was a

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<v Speaker 1>thing until I didn't What I mean is, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even hear about that until it was a direct to DVD,

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<v Speaker 1>So whenever DVD came out, I didn't realize they did

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<v Speaker 1>direct to video as early as nineteen eighty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, we could have a whole

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<v Speaker 2>episode on the beginnings of VHS, your family video stores

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<v Speaker 2>and the rush to get movies out there for people

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<v Speaker 2>to rent. It gave low budget studios an opportunity to

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<v Speaker 2>get their films out. They couldn't get it to the theaters,

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00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.920
<v Speaker 2>they weren't connected to the big studios. There were tons

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<v Speaker 2>horror movies come to mind a lot. To me, there

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<v Speaker 2>was all genres that were doing this, But to me,

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<v Speaker 2>it seemed like there was just countless number of horror

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<v Speaker 2>films that were just direct to VHS, just fill those shelves.

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<v Speaker 2>You also had marketing nightmares. This is where the real

395
00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:58.839
<v Speaker 2>panic sets in. How do you sell this thing? The

396
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.559
<v Speaker 2>trailers could not spoil the twist. The posters had to

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00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>explain the premise instantly. The studios were worried. They were

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<v Speaker 2>worried parents.

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<v Speaker 1>Might avoid it.

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<v Speaker 2>They were worried adults might think it's childish. They were

401
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.000
<v Speaker 2>worried teens might think it's uncool. Like we kept saying,

402
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<v Speaker 2>marketing departments hate ambiguity, and Big was ambiguity incarnate.

403
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<v Speaker 1>Trying to find out what a teenager thinks is cool.

404
00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:28.559
<v Speaker 1>As a marketing department of adults, what that's horrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, this reminds me of that scene in Big

406
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:35.079
<v Speaker 2>when he's sitting in that room with all the different

407
00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.839
<v Speaker 2>executives or toy creators and they're trying to pitch the

408
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:42.160
<v Speaker 2>new toy, and one of the guys creates a transformer

409
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.720
<v Speaker 2>that transforms into a building, and Josh is just he's

410
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<v Speaker 2>just sitting over their board and the big boss, Robert Leoja,

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<v Speaker 2>he says, what's wrong Josh? He's like, I don't get it.

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<v Speaker 2>And the marketers and the they're like, what do you

413
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<v Speaker 2>mean you don't get our studies. I mean they keep

414
00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.400
<v Speaker 2>saying things like, well, our research said, and our studies says,

415
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:03.880
<v Speaker 2>And He's like, yeah, okay, but I don't get it.

416
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<v Speaker 2>It's not fun, like who wants to play with a

417
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.359
<v Speaker 2>robot that turns into a building. I wonder do you

418
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>think maybe some of the marketing and the executives concerns

419
00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:16.799
<v Speaker 2>in this development if it kind of went into the

420
00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.880
<v Speaker 2>script a little bit as, yeah, this is the problem,

421
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<v Speaker 2>this is the problem with adulting versus a kid's mind.

422
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.319
<v Speaker 2>Kids just want to have fun. They don't care about

423
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.720
<v Speaker 2>the marketing. But the marketers they're all worried about how

424
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.279
<v Speaker 2>are we going to sell this thing? Who is it

425
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:30.920
<v Speaker 2>appealing for?

426
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:32.599
<v Speaker 1>What? The research says?

427
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:38.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it that it.

428
00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's shift gears and talk about why Big succeeded. The

429
00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:44.400
<v Speaker 2>first thing you got to start with Tom Hanks. This

430
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.000
<v Speaker 2>was a once in a generation performance. What he did

431
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:49.039
<v Speaker 2>is he made a crucial choice. He didn't play a

432
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.039
<v Speaker 2>man acting like a kid. He played a kid trapped

433
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.880
<v Speaker 2>inside adult limits. And I think that difference is everything.

434
00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, if you watch the way he postures himself awkward,

435
00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.480
<v Speaker 2>he's slightly off on his timing, he's unself conscious with

436
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.680
<v Speaker 2>his enthusiasm. One of the things I noticed thinking about

437
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.160
<v Speaker 2>when prepping for this show is if you watch the

438
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:15.279
<v Speaker 2>way he plays adult Josh, he's always oh, what is it, fidgeting.

439
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:17.359
<v Speaker 2>You'll see him where all the adults are doing all

440
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.839
<v Speaker 2>the adult things, where like we're at the party. I

441
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.519
<v Speaker 2>always think of the party where he wears that ridiculous tuxedo,

442
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.640
<v Speaker 2>thinking of singing fancy. Yes, everybody's talking about fancy things

443
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.519
<v Speaker 2>and adult things. But he's always fidgeting and looking around,

444
00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>and he's bored.

445
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, kids are bored with that. And then he

446
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:36.559
<v Speaker 1>starts eating the corn, the little bite sized corn. He

447
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.640
<v Speaker 1>tries to just inging, he tries to gnaw at it.

448
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:41.759
<v Speaker 2>I love when John love Itz comes over to him

449
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and hints that one of these women are I mean,

450
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:46.880
<v Speaker 2>he's saying that this woman is really easy. And I

451
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.039
<v Speaker 2>can't remember the scene or what he says, but it

452
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:52.599
<v Speaker 2>comes across from a kid's mind is kind of scary

453
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:56.519
<v Speaker 2>and not a come on, And Josh goes, huh, well,

454
00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll be sure to stay away from her. Get over

455
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.799
<v Speaker 2>there in the red mutch, say hi to her, and

456
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.279
<v Speaker 2>she's yours. Sure, rap her legs so you'll be begging

457
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:06.759
<v Speaker 2>for mercy.

458
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.319
<v Speaker 1>We I'll stay away from her.

459
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Then, emotionally he shows and communicates real fear. One of

460
00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.920
<v Speaker 2>my favorite small moments in this movie is when he

461
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.200
<v Speaker 2>moves into the cheap hotel in New York with his

462
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.640
<v Speaker 2>friend and they're having fun, but his friend has to

463
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:25.720
<v Speaker 2>go home and he's left alone, and you start hearing

464
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:29.759
<v Speaker 2>a gunshot or a car crashing or people screaming or

465
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:33.759
<v Speaker 2>a police siren and he just casually hiding in a way.

466
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:35.880
<v Speaker 2>He's kind of hiding against the wall and he closes

467
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:39.559
<v Speaker 2>the blinds. You watch his expressions. This is a face

468
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:42.559
<v Speaker 2>of a kid trying to hold it together but being

469
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.319
<v Speaker 2>absolutely terrified in the real world. It's a small scene,

470
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:49.200
<v Speaker 2>but it just melts my heart every time I see it.

471
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.839
<v Speaker 2>It's brilliant, like he's got the body of this adult,

472
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>but inside he is still just a thirteen year old boy,

473
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.519
<v Speaker 2>and he's got all of the fear in all of

474
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.359
<v Speaker 2>the emotions, and none of them are developed quite the

475
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 2>way that his body is developed. And I love that juxtaposition.

476
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 2>This falls right in line with Penny Marshall's vision. We

477
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.839
<v Speaker 2>have to believe in Josh, we have to feel with Josh.

478
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:17.640
<v Speaker 2>We've had all this comedy and that's great, but now

479
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.480
<v Speaker 2>the comedy's over, the day is over, and there's scary

480
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.000
<v Speaker 2>stuff out there when you're a kid by yourself, and

481
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:25.839
<v Speaker 2>we get a moment to just slow down and witness

482
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:28.640
<v Speaker 2>the fear, and I think that's great. There's the wonder

483
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.960
<v Speaker 2>without irony. The example I have is the toy store scenes.

484
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.559
<v Speaker 2>For example, He's just he's just playing, and he's not

485
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 2>embarrassed about it, and he doesn't worry about what other

486
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.880
<v Speaker 2>people are thinking. He's just a kid playing, you know.

487
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.240
<v Speaker 2>He celebrates joy without self mockery.

488
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:47.880
<v Speaker 1>So one of the things that really it hit me

489
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.200
<v Speaker 1>today as we were as I was going over everything

490
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.400
<v Speaker 1>and just thinking about, you know, final final moments of

491
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:59.519
<v Speaker 1>game planning. The adults in this movie are all working

492
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the system them They're telling him how to work social situations,

493
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 1>business situations. They're talking about research, they're talking about each other.

494
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.640
<v Speaker 1>They're talking about all of the things that if you

495
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>work these systems correctly, then you get to move up

496
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.640
<v Speaker 1>in the world. And the purity of this movie. And

497
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 1>it didn't hit me when I watched it before, at

498
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.839
<v Speaker 1>least it didn't hit me on a mental level. But Josh,

499
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 1>all the good things that happened to Josh happened because

500
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 1>he's just himself. He gets promoted because of the toy

501
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.400
<v Speaker 1>store scene, you know, and he meets the big boss

502
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:40.480
<v Speaker 1>in the store, and the big boss just watches him play,

503
00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:44.519
<v Speaker 1>and he's just being a kid. He's just being who

504
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.079
<v Speaker 1>he is. And all of the good things that happen

505
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 1>to him, including the woman, the girlfriend, the love interest,

506
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.640
<v Speaker 1>all of those things happen because Josh is just himself.

507
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 1>He's just a thirteen year old kid. He's feeling all

508
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:02.519
<v Speaker 1>the things. He's talking about all of the things naturally,

509
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:05.880
<v Speaker 1>he's talking about all of the things honestly, he's not

510
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to put on he's not working systems. And if

511
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.720
<v Speaker 1>you look at it from this thirty thousand foot view,

512
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.160
<v Speaker 1>the success he has as a quote unquote businessman because

513
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.519
<v Speaker 1>he's just really been good at being a kid and

514
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:24.200
<v Speaker 1>the innocence and the playfulness and the lack of pretense,

515
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.920
<v Speaker 1>and man, it's no wonder that I love that movie.

516
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you talk about the Big Boss, Robert Loja.

517
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't remember his name. Yeah. Yeah.

518
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 2>He was known for playing a lot of mean, tough

519
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.400
<v Speaker 2>guy roles, and this might have been the first movie

520
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I ever saw him in, so when I saw him

521
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 2>playing in other movies, it surprised me. But like you said,

522
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.039
<v Speaker 2>all the adults in this movie, they're already kind of cynical,

523
00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:49.720
<v Speaker 2>they're suspicious, but he's not. But you can see it

524
00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.839
<v Speaker 2>first a sadness because of that. He feels like he's

525
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.480
<v Speaker 2>the only one that wants to do wonderful fun things

526
00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:59.039
<v Speaker 2>with toys, but he doesn't know how because he's gotten

527
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 2>too successful and he's got all these people telling him

528
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:03.000
<v Speaker 2>how to do it and how not to do it.

529
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.240
<v Speaker 2>And he bonds with Josh because of that joy. You

530
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.799
<v Speaker 2>know who doesn't love the piano scene where they're just

531
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.279
<v Speaker 2>talking and then Josh is like, this is the coolest

532
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:14.480
<v Speaker 2>thing I've ever seen in my life, and he starts playing,

533
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:16.839
<v Speaker 2>and the Boss is like, I play a little bit too,

534
00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>and they start playing the duet, and I love halfway

535
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:21.559
<v Speaker 2>through he just looks at Josh and he's like chop

536
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:22.720
<v Speaker 2>sticks boom.

537
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:23.759
<v Speaker 1>Boom boom boom boom boom.

538
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Boom boom boom boom instantly, and they're smiling and they're

539
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 2>just having fun, and everybody's watching, and you know, you're right.

540
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:34.799
<v Speaker 2>It's Josh bringing in a child perspective into a very

541
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 2>cynical world.

542
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:38.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's I think that's what's so fresh about it

543
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:40.599
<v Speaker 1>now and in nineteen eighty eight.

544
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.519
<v Speaker 2>Going back to Tom Hanks's performance, the most important thing

545
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I think he brings to this film is he never

546
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.519
<v Speaker 2>winks at the audience. The casting directors and the executives.

547
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.839
<v Speaker 2>They were worried he might overplay the comedy, but he doesn't.

548
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>He You know, that restraint it makes this premise of

549
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 2>a film emotionally, you're along for the ride and you

550
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.000
<v Speaker 2>never question the fantasy aspect of it.

551
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, and it's funny. It's funny how they take and

552
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:10.519
<v Speaker 1>you said you didn't want to talk about the girlfriend,

553
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:12.359
<v Speaker 1>but this is the only scene that I could I

554
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.480
<v Speaker 1>could think of where there's all of the adult double

555
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.440
<v Speaker 1>entendre happening, but he just plays it straight like a

556
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>little kid, Like a little kid doesn't think about, well,

557
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.359
<v Speaker 1>I get to be on top. He's not thinking of

558
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.279
<v Speaker 1>what that means for a thirty year old to hear it.

559
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.160
<v Speaker 1>He's just thinking about the bunk that they're going to

560
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.640
<v Speaker 1>sleep in because they're going to have a sleepover. That's it,

561
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:33.759
<v Speaker 1>And that's like that.

562
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like that part when he's in the limousine and

563
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:40.400
<v Speaker 2>he's fascinated with the electric locks and the power windows.

564
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>He reaches over to open up one of the windows

565
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>or play with the locks, and she has this expression like, oh,

566
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:47.480
<v Speaker 2>this is the part where he comes on to me.

567
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:48.000
<v Speaker 1>This is it.

568
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>And then she's completely surprised, like, wait, he's not even

569
00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:53.960
<v Speaker 2>paying attention to me. He's playing with the car. And

570
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:56.039
<v Speaker 2>then he's like, come on, you know, I've opened up

571
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:57.960
<v Speaker 2>the roof. Isn't this fun? And she's like, oh no,

572
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 2>don't you want a drink? Don't you want to know? No,

573
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.799
<v Speaker 2>get up here and see. Finally is like okay, and

574
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.839
<v Speaker 2>then she starts having fun again. She starts remembering what

575
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:07.599
<v Speaker 2>fun is.

576
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.039
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, and it's it almost reminds me of airplane.

577
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Play it straight and it'll be funny. But you just

578
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.200
<v Speaker 1>got to play it straight, you know. And it's the same.

579
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.319
<v Speaker 1>It's the same kind of idea where if you are

580
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:22.759
<v Speaker 1>trying to be funny, it's not going to be funny.

581
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.440
<v Speaker 2>The thing to remember about comedy is if it's if

582
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 2>it bends, it's funny.

583
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.039
<v Speaker 1>If it breaks, it's not funny. If you just play

584
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.440
<v Speaker 1>it straight, play it like a thirteen year old would,

585
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:33.519
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be funny.

586
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.839
<v Speaker 2>Right. Did you know that this earned Tom Hanks his

587
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>first Oscar nomination for Best Actor?

588
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:39.559
<v Speaker 1>I did not.

589
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I didn't realize that either. Doing the research, I thought, wow,

590
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know a lot of people that get Oscars

591
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:49.440
<v Speaker 2>for comedies. I know Marissa Tomay did. It's usually reserved

592
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.400
<v Speaker 2>for drama and serious, so that says a lot. I mean,

593
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>this performance is really what made Philadelphia and Forrest Gump

594
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:00.160
<v Speaker 2>and cast Away kind of films for him possible. This

595
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.240
<v Speaker 2>was the true beginning for his career and thank god

596
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:03.599
<v Speaker 2>for it.

597
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:05.039
<v Speaker 1>Amen to that.

598
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 2>But it's not all Tom Hanks. Penny Marshall deserves a

599
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.119
<v Speaker 2>huge amount of credit. You know, she directed this with

600
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 2>the emotional restraint, character first instincts, and almost zero cynicism.

601
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.640
<v Speaker 2>The adult characters they do have a cynical feel, but

602
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.599
<v Speaker 2>Josh doesn't his friend doesn't. The boss really doesn't want

603
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:26.119
<v Speaker 2>to be cynical. He wants to feel the joy of

604
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 2>childhood again. That's why he has a toy business. The

605
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.039
<v Speaker 2>You know Susan, she is in a cynical world, but

606
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.279
<v Speaker 2>she starts realizing when she spends time with Josh that

607
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>life can be fun. It's not about hitting your numbers

608
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.920
<v Speaker 2>working all the time. And so I just think that

609
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:48.079
<v Speaker 2>tone makes this movie so enjoyable. Marshall's philosophy was very simple.

610
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.799
<v Speaker 2>Let the fantasy exist quietly, ground the scenes in human reactions,

611
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and never exploit the premise. And I think that's what

612
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.559
<v Speaker 2>you and I have been discussing when we're talking about

613
00:30:57.640 --> 00:30:58.720
<v Speaker 2>scenes and characters.

614
00:30:58.960 --> 00:30:59.440
<v Speaker 1>We get this.

615
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Our message was communicated well. The comedy of Big it

616
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:07.799
<v Speaker 2>comes from the innocence colliding with adult systems. It's it's

617
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:12.119
<v Speaker 2>not mocking innocence. It never mocks the innocence of childhood. Josh,

618
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:15.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, he succeeds because he remembers the joy the

619
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:16.599
<v Speaker 2>world never fixes him.

620
00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I would say his innocence is how do

621
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I want to say this? Not only is it a theme,

622
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:28.359
<v Speaker 1>it's an organizing principle. It's the characters play around.

623
00:31:28.039 --> 00:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>It the entire time and it never changes, right, the

624
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.200
<v Speaker 2>fantasy in Big, It's not therapy. You know, Big argues

625
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:39.319
<v Speaker 2>something riskier. I think innocence does not equal stupidity. You know,

626
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:42.279
<v Speaker 2>wonder has value on its own. You know it's the

627
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.400
<v Speaker 2>adults that are emotionally stunted, not the kids.

628
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the kids are definitely the heroes in the story. So,

629
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:51.559
<v Speaker 1>and this is what I was going to get at earlier.

630
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.000
<v Speaker 1>When Susan and Paul, who had a thing before Susan

631
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.759
<v Speaker 1>and Josh did, they get in an argument and Paul asked,

632
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.119
<v Speaker 1>what is it about this guy? And she says, he's

633
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:07.279
<v Speaker 1>a grown up. He's a grown up, right. That's that's

634
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the that's the irony of innocence as a character. And

635
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 1>how you know the whole idea of innocence isn't stupidity.

636
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:20.079
<v Speaker 1>Wonder has value. And the adults are you know, emotionally stunted.

637
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:25.000
<v Speaker 1>They they're missing something that Josh is placing into their world.

638
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 1>Your heart dies, Who cares?

639
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.559
<v Speaker 2>I care? What if growing up is the problem? And

640
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:36.920
<v Speaker 2>I think this is why the magic lasts for Big.

641
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Speaker 1>It's what it's part of what makes it timeless.

642
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, what makes it timeless yeah, all right, Matt, we've

643
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.319
<v Speaker 2>waited long enough. I think we need to do this.

644
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about the romance in this movie.

645
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:53.279
<v Speaker 1>And not get canceled.

646
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.240
<v Speaker 2>When we were in the eighties, this whole thing just

647
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>went over ahead. It's like it just it didn't weird

648
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:59.480
<v Speaker 2>me out. And I saw this with my parents, and

649
00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember my parents being weirded out or talking

650
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 2>about it.

651
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 1>If they were weirded out, you would never know about it.

652
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 1>They would just talk about it later behind your back.

653
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Let's be fair. The Susan relationship, it really could have

654
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:14.799
<v Speaker 2>sunk this entire movie. But it works, I think because

655
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.200
<v Speaker 2>it's handled with the restraint and the discomfort. I mean

656
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:22.599
<v Speaker 2>it's it's portrayed as quietly inappropriate and honest. Josh's emotional

657
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 2>immaturity becomes undeniable. You know, it's not again, he doesn't.

658
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.839
<v Speaker 2>Nobody's winking at the camera, thank you, none of that.

659
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, these two people connected, and you know, the

660
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:37.440
<v Speaker 2>movie just lets the discomfort exist and then ends it and.

661
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:37.880
<v Speaker 1>We move on.

662
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:38.400
<v Speaker 2>You know.

663
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.759
<v Speaker 1>Big was one of those movies that kind of there

664
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:46.200
<v Speaker 1>was some romance to it and there was some innocence

665
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.519
<v Speaker 1>to it that I mean, it drew me in. It

666
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:51.799
<v Speaker 1>didn't make me feel like, oh, you know, I'm gonna

667
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:55.160
<v Speaker 1>go get you know, this older woman or whatever it is.

668
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.920
<v Speaker 1>It was just the kind of thing like, Okay, I

669
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 1>can be myself, and I can in this new situation,

670
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.240
<v Speaker 1>and I can experience this. This is a real thing, Josh,

671
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:09.199
<v Speaker 1>who is you know, thirteen and a thirty year old's

672
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.760
<v Speaker 1>body is experiencing this because he was himself. He lived

673
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:15.800
<v Speaker 1>his life. This is what happens, So there's hope for me.

674
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:18.159
<v Speaker 2>I thought the way it ended was nice. You know,

675
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:21.079
<v Speaker 2>when she realizes what had happened, first of all, she

676
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.360
<v Speaker 2>buys into the fantasy as well, Okay, that's why you

677
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.760
<v Speaker 2>act the way you do. You're a kid. And when

678
00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.679
<v Speaker 2>he's going home and he's with her and she's talking

679
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:31.840
<v Speaker 2>to him, and there's two things I really liked. I like,

680
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:35.159
<v Speaker 2>he wanted her to go with him and she said, no,

681
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.239
<v Speaker 2>I can't, I've already done that. And I remember as

682
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:38.760
<v Speaker 2>a kid coming home that was one of the discussions

683
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I had with my mom as I said, man, if

684
00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:43.119
<v Speaker 2>I had a chance to go back, I would Why

685
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:45.159
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't you? And my mom tried to explain it, but

686
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.760
<v Speaker 2>she couldn't but again, now that I'm an adult, I go, yeah,

687
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I really want to do the teen

688
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:50.079
<v Speaker 2>years again.

689
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:50.840
<v Speaker 1>She was right.

690
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:53.559
<v Speaker 2>The second thing is I love that he moves in

691
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:56.840
<v Speaker 2>to give her one more kiss, and she pauses, and

692
00:34:56.920 --> 00:34:59.440
<v Speaker 2>she kisses his forehead and he goes home.

693
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.920
<v Speaker 1>She becomes appropriate as soon as she knows what's going on.

694
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's weird, it's a little awkward, but we're moving on.

695
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.079
<v Speaker 2>She's the mature adult. She understands how it happened. He

696
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.800
<v Speaker 2>still doesn't fully understand, but he will someday. There's no

697
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:15.360
<v Speaker 2>reason to guilt anybody. It's just a thing, and we've

698
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 2>corrected it. And he's going home and he will, he

699
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:21.039
<v Speaker 2>will live his childhood. And Susan will go back to

700
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:24.880
<v Speaker 2>New York a little wiser and changed, and whatever she

701
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.400
<v Speaker 2>goes to pursue, it's gonna be from a non cynical perspective.

702
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:31.679
<v Speaker 1>We know this. You know you said something interesting talking

703
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:36.159
<v Speaker 1>about what years would you go back and redo? And

704
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.400
<v Speaker 1>I've always had the premise that there's not enough money

705
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:41.719
<v Speaker 1>in the world for me to go back to middle school.

706
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.280
<v Speaker 1>You can forget it. You could give me, you could

707
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.480
<v Speaker 1>give me fifty year old knowledge and wisdom and say

708
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:51.719
<v Speaker 1>you can go back and be in middle school. And

709
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.559
<v Speaker 1>I would still say no. I would still say no,

710
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:59.119
<v Speaker 1>I did not like middle school, high school, senior year.

711
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.599
<v Speaker 1>I might, I might think about it. I would do

712
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:05.440
<v Speaker 1>college again. I would absolutely do college again. So is

713
00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 1>there a time of your life where you would happily

714
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.199
<v Speaker 1>go back and try it again.

715
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.599
<v Speaker 2>I would want to go back fantasy Island style, meaning

716
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.719
<v Speaker 2>let me go back and experience it, but I don't

717
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:19.920
<v Speaker 2>want any of the logic of repercussions or butterfly effect

718
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 2>or ruining the present. Just let me go back and

719
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of relive it. But then I come back into today,

720
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.039
<v Speaker 2>no harm, no foul. Does that make sense?

721
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:29.079
<v Speaker 1>Yes? I like that.

722
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:31.599
<v Speaker 2>The college years would probably be it that some of

723
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.079
<v Speaker 2>the best friends I ever made, the best experiences, your

724
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:40.920
<v Speaker 2>first taste at independence, individuality. I mean, all through high

725
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.280
<v Speaker 2>school you worry about conformity or nonconformity, and then I

726
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.559
<v Speaker 2>went to college and all of a sudden, nobody cared

727
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>if you were like them or not. Everybody was just

728
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:52.880
<v Speaker 2>doing their thing, and that was great, That was amazing.

729
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was a lot of adventure and coming of

730
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>age in the college years that I would do over again.

731
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:01.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to think if I would do it again

732
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.679
<v Speaker 1>with or without the age and wisdom, because kind of

733
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:10.159
<v Speaker 1>that was the part of the formula with middle school,

734
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:12.559
<v Speaker 1>high school. You'd go back, but you can have the

735
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.159
<v Speaker 1>wisdom and knowledge. I don't know if I would want

736
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>to do it again without the wisdom and knowledge. So

737
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 1>I get to I get to be, you know, forty

738
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.039
<v Speaker 1>fifty year old Matt, but I get to experience all

739
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:26.519
<v Speaker 1>of the things, make all of the decisions at that

740
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:31.639
<v Speaker 1>point though, it's like a cheat code, right, So I

741
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.159
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I don't know if I would want to

742
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:36.199
<v Speaker 1>do that again. I always say that because I'm always

743
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.480
<v Speaker 1>thinking about the ball and you know, playing ball and

744
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.159
<v Speaker 1>all the friends and all the free time, and you know,

745
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.840
<v Speaker 1>you're an adult, you're making your own decisions, but you're

746
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.039
<v Speaker 1>not you're certainly not paying your own bills yet, at

747
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.360
<v Speaker 1>least I wasn't. I don't think you were either, So

748
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:53.159
<v Speaker 1>you know that kind of thing. I think, yeah, i'd

749
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.519
<v Speaker 1>go back, But when I think of all of the

750
00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:58.880
<v Speaker 1>things that you know, I learned through those years, like,

751
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:00.639
<v Speaker 1>do I really want to learn all that again the

752
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 1>hard way? Do I really want to have that experience again,

753
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. That's a good question, you know.

754
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:09.639
<v Speaker 2>I think the real problem as being adults is if

755
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 2>we did go back with the wisdom, it wouldn't be

756
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.000
<v Speaker 2>the same. We wouldn't interact the same way, right, I

757
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.639
<v Speaker 2>don't think we would really the experience. There's something to

758
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:20.639
<v Speaker 2>be said about you can't go home.

759
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I think that's right. And for me, though,

760
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:28.159
<v Speaker 1>the perfectionist in me would like to make better decisions

761
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.880
<v Speaker 1>going going forward. It's like, Okay, if you had this

762
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>and this and this and this figured out, then that

763
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.840
<v Speaker 1>would change some things. And I wish there was like

764
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:45.599
<v Speaker 1>an app or a website or something, you know, futuristically

765
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.079
<v Speaker 1>that could tell you, you know, you put in Okay,

766
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.960
<v Speaker 1>this didn't happen. I did this instead, how did my

767
00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.760
<v Speaker 1>life turn out? And I think probably what would happen

768
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 1>is we'd find out it turns out basically the same,

769
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:01.400
<v Speaker 1>because you can change this circumstances, but you're still you,

770
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:05.599
<v Speaker 1>you know. Anyway, we've gotten way philosophical on this and

771
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.920
<v Speaker 1>that's not where I intended to go. But I think

772
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.079
<v Speaker 1>it's an interesting concept because those are the things that

773
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.880
<v Speaker 1>I thought about as a fifteen year old watching Big

774
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:19.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, if I got the chance to become older

775
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:22.960
<v Speaker 1>but still be a kid all of those things. That

776
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 1>was very much a thought process that I had as

777
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:27.519
<v Speaker 1>a fifteen year old.

778
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when I was a kid, I thought the ending

779
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.039
<v Speaker 2>made no sense to me. Why would you want to

780
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:34.599
<v Speaker 2>go back and be a kid. You've got this amazing job,

781
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.039
<v Speaker 2>You've got a great girlfriend, go with it. But that's

782
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:40.920
<v Speaker 2>the fifteen year old in me. You should watch this movie.

783
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:44.719
<v Speaker 2>Every decade in your opinion changes, your perception of what's

784
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.039
<v Speaker 2>going on changes. That's kind of what I think is

785
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:49.880
<v Speaker 2>the brilliance of this story, because now I look back

786
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:51.880
<v Speaker 2>and I go, yeah, Now, he couldn't. He'd miss out

787
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:53.679
<v Speaker 2>on his childhood. He needs to go back, and she

788
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.039
<v Speaker 2>needs to stay where she's staying.

789
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:58.320
<v Speaker 1>And that's just the way it is. When you're you know, fifteen,

790
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 1>sixteen years old or twelve thirteen years old, skipping all

791
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:06.440
<v Speaker 1>that becomes attractive. But you know, when you're forty fifty

792
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.760
<v Speaker 1>years old, you look back on that and you say, well,

793
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.920
<v Speaker 1>that was all really pretty important for the things that

794
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I needed to accomplish in all. If I had skipped it,

795
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.599
<v Speaker 1>I'd have missed a bunch of stuff that I didn't

796
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:18.400
<v Speaker 1>need to miss.

797
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.280
<v Speaker 3>Exactly when you get out of school, you have to

798
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.400
<v Speaker 3>work every day for the rest of your life. We

799
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.559
<v Speaker 3>all know when that time was that we were no

800
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 3>longer the innocent child, what year it was or month

801
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 3>or summer or vacation or whatever. And I think we're

802
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 3>just a bit saddened because we know that aspect of

803
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.320
<v Speaker 3>innocence is gone forever. And that was what we were

804
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.480
<v Speaker 3>trying to point up in this movie, is that let's.

805
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Not rush these kids.

806
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:46.000
<v Speaker 3>Let's let them be kids for as long as possible.

807
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.800
<v Speaker 3>The longer you can put it off, the better, because

808
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.679
<v Speaker 3>you do have to put it off eventually. Now hopefully

809
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.639
<v Speaker 3>you'll put it off when you're nineteen twenty twenty one

810
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:57.960
<v Speaker 3>years old. That's the thing I means, Let's cut our

811
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.159
<v Speaker 3>kids some slack and let them just be kids. The

812
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:01.760
<v Speaker 3>world's confusing enough as it is.

813
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a line early on in the movie that really

814
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:07.159
<v Speaker 2>sets that up. Is when Josh is at the amusement

815
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:08.920
<v Speaker 2>park as a kid and he sees one of the

816
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 2>older popular girls and he's crushing on her, and he's

817
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:13.679
<v Speaker 2>shy and he don't know how to talk to her,

818
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and she's being nice, and then she points out the

819
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:19.280
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend she has, and she looks over and looks back

820
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 2>at Josh and she says, he drives. It's all about

821
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:27.840
<v Speaker 2>where are we going forward? This guy he's doing older stuff.

822
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I want to be with the older stuff, which is

823
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.320
<v Speaker 2>why I guess Josh says, well, I want to be big,

824
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:35.440
<v Speaker 2>and then you kind of learn, well, that has its limits.

825
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Let's don't go too far on this, you know, right

826
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 2>right right, let me reall this back in. There's a

827
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:42.079
<v Speaker 2>couple more things I wanted to touch base on as

828
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.000
<v Speaker 2>far as why this movie worked, and then we'll talk

829
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.199
<v Speaker 2>about the resulting success. This movie came out at the

830
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:47.920
<v Speaker 2>perfect time.

831
00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I saw stuff in my research talking about,

832
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:53.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of the things that were going on

833
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:57.639
<v Speaker 1>in the Reagan years and the economics and the business

834
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.679
<v Speaker 1>and the way that the eighty's business culture was changing

835
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:08.239
<v Speaker 1>and becoming harder and more difficult, and people were working harder.

836
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:12.280
<v Speaker 1>There was this grind to it that didn't exist before.

837
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.760
<v Speaker 1>And this movie comes in and people, even if they're

838
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.599
<v Speaker 1>not working in you know, Manhattan, can see themselves in

839
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:24.880
<v Speaker 1>each of these positions through this movie. You know, from

840
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:28.079
<v Speaker 1>the boss to the to the upper and middle management

841
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 1>to the to the grunts and you know, find just

842
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:36.320
<v Speaker 1>some fresh perspective in this little boy that switches into

843
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.719
<v Speaker 1>a big body, and that's the premise of the movie,

844
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:40.840
<v Speaker 1>and what happens when that happens.

845
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the yuppies had been around for a while. The

846
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:49.599
<v Speaker 2>corporate nature, the make money, the Wall Street greed is good.

847
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.000
<v Speaker 2>It was leading to adult burnout. I think there was

848
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:57.440
<v Speaker 2>a wish for nostalgia and simplicity, just take it down

849
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:57.880
<v Speaker 2>a notch.

850
00:42:58.239 --> 00:42:58.400
<v Speaker 1>You know.

851
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Big tapped into this. It addresses the fear of growing

852
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.360
<v Speaker 2>up too fast, the anxiety of how hollow success can be.

853
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:07.599
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of adults at the time had

854
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:11.880
<v Speaker 2>this desire to reconnect with wonder And obviously it wasn't

855
00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:14.000
<v Speaker 2>just you and me, you know, audience. They didn't just

856
00:43:14.119 --> 00:43:17.199
<v Speaker 2>like this movie. They recognized themselves in it, and it

857
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:20.800
<v Speaker 2>just became huge. What's the result of all this, Well,

858
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Big had a budget of eighteen million dollars. Worldwide box

859
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:29.719
<v Speaker 2>office brought in one hundred and fifty one million dollars.

860
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:31.920
<v Speaker 1>I'd say it did okay, did all right.

861
00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:34.639
<v Speaker 2>It got critical acclaim on top of that, and I

862
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.039
<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier it had some Oscar recognition. It launched Tom

863
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Hanks as a dramatic star. I mean, do we even

864
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.599
<v Speaker 2>need to go down his list. I mean, he just

865
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.840
<v Speaker 2>became huge. You might say that Tom Hanks became pretty

866
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 2>big in the movie business after this.

867
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:49.679
<v Speaker 1>You can't use my joke.

868
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Penny Marshall, after this became a pretty major director.

869
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:54.079
<v Speaker 1>You know.

870
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:57.800
<v Speaker 2>After Big, she did the emotionally dramatic I would argue,

871
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe a little too emotional Away Makenings, And that was

872
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.599
<v Speaker 2>with Robin Williams and Robert de Niro. And then she

873
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:05.679
<v Speaker 2>did one of my favorites, A League of their own.

874
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:09.320
<v Speaker 1>There's no crying in baseball. I would not rank it

875
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:13.239
<v Speaker 1>with The Natural or Bull Durham, but as a fun

876
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:15.639
<v Speaker 1>sports movie, I loved it.

877
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Big became what I would consider a perennial rewatch. You

878
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.280
<v Speaker 2>know this, You can watch this movie every decade and

879
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:24.679
<v Speaker 2>get a different perspective on it.

880
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I think this is the kind of movie where if

881
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.559
<v Speaker 1>you find it on anywhere, you find it on if

882
00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:31.960
<v Speaker 1>it's on TV, it's if it's at the first, if

883
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.679
<v Speaker 1>it's in the middle, if it's right at the end,

884
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:36.840
<v Speaker 1>you pick it up. You know where it's going, you

885
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.039
<v Speaker 1>know where it's been, and you just pick up on

886
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.239
<v Speaker 1>the story. This is one of those movies for me,

887
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I have probably there's probably ten of them on my list.

888
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:46.159
<v Speaker 1>This would definitely be one of them.

889
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:50.199
<v Speaker 2>It's just a cultural touchstone for the moment, and funny enough,

890
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:54.400
<v Speaker 2>this movie is still a template that the studios they

891
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:58.239
<v Speaker 2>still misunderstand. They've never been able to really recreate this again.

892
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.719
<v Speaker 2>You know, they've tried to make several age swamp movies.

893
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:05.000
<v Speaker 2>There was a handful of them, vice versa like Father,

894
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Like Son eighteen again Jennifer Garner did one never quite

895
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.039
<v Speaker 2>works the same way. You know, with the newer films

896
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.719
<v Speaker 2>or the films they've tried to capture the big essence

897
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:18.239
<v Speaker 2>on It's like we were saying, there's always a mission,

898
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.440
<v Speaker 2>there's something they're supposed to be learning from. But Big

899
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:22.280
<v Speaker 2>didn't have that.

900
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.119
<v Speaker 1>I think the genius of Big is it doesn't have

901
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.880
<v Speaker 1>an agenda. Now, it accomplishes a lot of things, and

902
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:29.800
<v Speaker 1>it says a lot of things, but I think the

903
00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:33.320
<v Speaker 1>basic premise is, Hey, a thirteen year old becomes a

904
00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:36.840
<v Speaker 1>thirty year old. What happens and there's not a oh,

905
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:40.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, Grandpa's got to learn this lesson, or you know,

906
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.360
<v Speaker 1>she's got to learn responsibility or you know, all of

907
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.079
<v Speaker 1>the lists of things that we talked about. You know,

908
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:49.400
<v Speaker 1>these are the agendas, the underlying agendas on what's happening

909
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:50.000
<v Speaker 1>in the movie.

910
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, and the ending of Big to me says, you

911
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:53.760
<v Speaker 2>don't get to skip childhood.

912
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Growth requires patience. Josh chooses loss, pain, reality, and that

913
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:01.440
<v Speaker 1>choice it gives the film weight.

914
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:06.400
<v Speaker 2>It's very simple. Big trust sincerity over irony. It respects

915
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:10.280
<v Speaker 2>its audience emotionally. It commits fully to the premise, and

916
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.760
<v Speaker 2>it avoids cruelty and cynicism. Big treats fantasy as a

917
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.039
<v Speaker 2>way to reveal truth, not escape it. And that isn't

918
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:21.039
<v Speaker 2>a small task to succeed at, not even a little.

919
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:24.639
<v Speaker 2>What are we going to talk about next week, Matt?

920
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.199
<v Speaker 1>You know, Derek, I got a text this week from

921
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.079
<v Speaker 1>mister Weber from our group. He was like, Hey, on

922
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Accidental Legends, are you guys going to be doing Walk

923
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:38.679
<v Speaker 1>this Way with run DMC anytime soon? As a matter

924
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:40.440
<v Speaker 1>of fact, and I kind of laid out what we

925
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:43.159
<v Speaker 1>were doing. He was like, all right, gotta love those

926
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:44.239
<v Speaker 1>great minds.

927
00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh Man, great minds.

928
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Indeed. Well, I can't wait.

929
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking forward to talking about that.

930
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Let me just take a minute here to say Thank

931
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.039
<v Speaker 1>you to all of our friends that are commenting in,

932
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:59.639
<v Speaker 1>sending us text sending emails, sending Facebook messages, whatever it

933
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.760
<v Speaker 1>happens to be, just talking about how you're connecting with

934
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:06.360
<v Speaker 1>the episodes. It's been fun getting more and more of that,

935
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:09.800
<v Speaker 1>so we really appreciate that, and Sin keep sending those

936
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:11.199
<v Speaker 1>in because we eat it up.

937
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Yep, hit like hit, subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your neighbors,

938
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:17.280
<v Speaker 2>tell anybody. We're really glad you're here and we look

939
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:19.800
<v Speaker 2>forward to next week. Until then, we will talk to

940
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:20.159
<v Speaker 2>you later.

941
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.159
<v Speaker 1>We'll see you later.