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Good evening to all appearances. 32 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.840 Dennis Raider was a model citizen in the small town 33 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:58.640 of Park City, Kansas. The self named BTK for Bind 34 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:03.799 Torture Kill, had terrorized Wichita for thirty one years. In 35 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.959 nineteen seventy four, b t K committed his first murders, 36 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:12.319 torturing and strangling four members of the Ortero family, and 37 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:16.400 wrote the police on audacious letter declaring his responsibility for 38 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:21.360 the Ortero's deaths and labeling himself b t K. Thus 39 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:24.759 he established a patron stalking and killing a series of 40 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.439 ten victims, then bragging and claiming ownership of his crimes 41 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:32.800 that ended in nineteen ninety one, until that is, he 42 00:02:32.919 --> 00:02:36.439 resurfaced in two thousand four with another string of letters 43 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:40.639 that would finally lead to his arrest. Drawing from extensive 44 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:45.800 interviews with Raider's pastor, congregation, detectives, and psychologists who worked 45 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.400 the case, and from his unnervingly detailed thirty two hour confession, 46 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:55.360 best selling author Stephen Singular delves into the disturbing life 47 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:58.479 and crimes of b t K to explore fully for 48 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:02.560 the first time the most dangerous and complex serial killer 49 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:07.240 of our generation and the men and the man who embodied. 50 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:13.520 At once astonishing extremes of normality and abnormality. In Unholy Messenger, 51 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:18.039 Singular recounts the year prior to Raider's arrest in which 52 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:22.960 the BTK killer re emerged and the aftermath. The result 53 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.439 is a chilling story of a man considered a spiritual 54 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.000 leader by his pastor and congregation who turned out to 55 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.400 be the devil next door. The book they were featuring 56 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:36.039 this evening is Unholy Messenger, The Life and Crimes of 57 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:40.039 the bt K Serial Killer, with my special guest investigative 58 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:44.159 journalists and authors, Joyce and Stephen Singular. Welcome to the 59 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.000 program and thank you very much for a greenness interview. 60 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.439 Joyce and Stephen Singular, thanks. 61 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:51.800 For having us. Dan appreciate it. 62 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:56.280 Thank you very much for joining us on this incredible story, 63 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:00.800 a credible book on Holy Messenger. Now, Steven, i'll start 64 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.039 off right now with first with you that what happened 65 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:08.479 in two thousand and five, specifically that puts you on 66 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:10.800 course to write on Holy Messenger. 67 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:16.800 Well, Raider was arrested in late February of two thousand 68 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.199 and five, and I was sort of aware of it, 69 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:23.519 but wasn't paying that much attention to it. I grew 70 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.839 up in eastern Kansas in a very small town similar 71 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.279 to Raiders, so I sort of had that connection. And 72 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.879 I had gone with Joyce and our son to my 73 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.000 small hometown when school got out. We did this every 74 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.120 year and we visited my parents, and my son and 75 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:47.120 I were going down to this gym to shoot some 76 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:50.399 baskets for basketball. He was really into basketball at that time. 77 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:52.639 And we were down there and my old basketball coach 78 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:56.040 was there and we started talking. He said, you've got 79 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.680 to write about this BTK case. And I said, well, 80 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.000 lot of other people writing about it, you know, it's 81 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.199 been covered. He said, no, I'm serious, and he took 82 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.439 out a cell phone. He said, you've got to talk 83 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.680 to my son in law Dan, and he dialed the 84 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:11.480 number and he just handed me the phone. I said, 85 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.040 who's Dan. He said, well, he was on the task 86 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.199 force that investigated BTK for a year and he was 87 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:21.399 one of the people who arrested him on February twenty fifth, 88 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:24.240 two thousand and five. And I thought, well, you know, 89 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.199 maybe he's worth talking to. Handed me the phone, and 90 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.680 the next day I drove to Wichita and I met 91 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:35.480 with him with the detective, and I also had an 92 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:39.040 appointment with Pastor Michael Clark. And both of these people, 93 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.800 the first one really isn't named in the book. That 94 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.959 was sort of a back alla on background information, but 95 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:51.600 Pastor Clark was the pastor in the Lutheran church where 96 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.720 Dennis Raider was the president of the congregation. So when 97 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:01.399 all of this happened, he was not only totally dumbfounded 98 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.360 and startled that the guy he was working beside all 99 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.560 the time was the BTK serial killer, but it sent 100 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:11.360 him on this spiritual journey of his own, and I 101 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.199 kind of wanted to have some light in the book. 102 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:17.399 I mean, obviously it's a very dark subject, but sort 103 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:22.600 of chronicling Pastor Clark's life alongside Dennis Raiders, showing one 104 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:26.319 guy who went really really bad, one guy another guy 105 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.600 who had a very tough life in some ways, but 106 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.759 sort of went through it, came out much better for it, 107 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:35.519 and then went on this spiritual journey. After learning about BTK, 108 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.519 I thought it added a dimension to the book that 109 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.240 the book needed, and it added some fumor and some 110 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:48.000 life and lightly. So that was really the starting point 111 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:52.040 for getting involved in the case. Knowing somebody who was 112 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:54.639 on that task force gave me a lot of background 113 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.279 information that filtered into the book. 114 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:04.000 Certainly. You opened the book with January seventeenth, two thousand 115 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:10.360 and four, with the Wichita Eagle. Now what is published. 116 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:13.839 You talk about the article that's published, and you talk 117 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.680 about how old Raider is and the effect on him 118 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:20.959 reading that article. Tell us what that article basically conveyed 119 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:25.879 and expressed and what was Dennis Rader thinking at that 120 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.399 time once he read that article. 121 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.680 Well, Dennis Rader had a lot of artistic bent and 122 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.399 was very repressed in that regard. He was interested in 123 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:43.720 photography and writing and drawing, and when he saw that 124 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:48.759 this anniversary of the BTK murders, this cold case is 125 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:52.800 coming out, he took offense because he heard that someone 126 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.199 else was going to be writing a book about it, 127 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.000 and he really wanted to write his own book about it, 128 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:03.160 his BTK Productions. You know, he had chapters outlined, and 129 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:08.240 he really got quite angry about that, and that's what 130 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:13.240 prompted him to start sending mementos of I believe it 131 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:15.720 was Vicky Weggerly Steve, Is that correct? 132 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:20.160 That's crust to the Eagle, right, Yeah, he sent in 133 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.199 he had taken her driver's license. He usually took something 134 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.439 from a crime scene, but he took her driver's license 135 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:31.160 and so he photo copied it, and he also had 136 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:35.000 pictures of her during the crime. And so when he 137 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.639 sent it in to the Witchita Eagle, they knew that 138 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:41.759 this had to be the killer. No one else could 139 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:47.240 have had these things, so that, you know, it motivated 140 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:50.320 him to come out of hiding. Basically, since nineteen ninety one, 141 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:53.600 he hadn't really done much of anything. That's as far 142 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.679 as we know. There are people who think he might 143 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.240 have kept killing, but as far as we know, for 144 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.799 those thirteen years, he was doing and he just thought, 145 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:04.159 I'm going to show them one more time, you know 146 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:07.360 that I'm alive, and that I'm active, And he really. 147 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:12.120 Took great pride in his quote unquote work. He didn't 148 00:09:12.159 --> 00:09:15.600 want anybody else taking credit for He was a very 149 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:21.159 highly detailed, highly organized person in both his daily life, 150 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:25.799 his home life, and in his murdering m o. So 151 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.399 he wanted to get the credit for that. 152 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:29.879 You know. 153 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.399 He in one of his missives to the police, you know, 154 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.799 he said, I think it was to the Eagle, he said, 155 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.279 you know, what is it going to take to get 156 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:42.879 the media to get some national attention about my crimes? 157 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.080 Right? And you had then alluded earlier to the Oto murders. 158 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:52.080 The first crimes he committed were the killing of the 159 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:57.679 four people in this family, the Oteos, and he had 160 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:00.639 set off a huge investigation that got no near him. 161 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:04.399 But six months went by, ers six or about eight 162 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.039 or nine months went by, he killed somebody else in 163 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:12.279 the interim, and then he someone came out and took 164 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:15.559 credit or was trying to take credit for the Otero murders, 165 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:19.360 someone who was mentally disturbed, basically. So he wrote this 166 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:23.360 very extensive letter, as Joy said, he was very detailed 167 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:28.000 to and put it in the library, and the Eagle 168 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.480 went over and got it, and he gave an absolute 169 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.080 minute description of the murders and where the bodies were 170 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:40.360 and how they were laid out to prove, you know, 171 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:43.440 to everyone that he was actually the BTK killer. 172 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.240 And also by the time you know, that article came 173 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:51.559 out in the Wichita Eagle about the anniversary, his two 174 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.720 kids had grown and were out of the house. He 175 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.919 was kind of he was just working as a compliance officer, 176 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.120 sort of, you know, measuring people's to make sure they 177 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:04.320 hadn't gone over the limit, measuring it with a ruler 178 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:07.440 in some cases, you know, to make sure. That's how 179 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:09.919 detailed he was. And so he was sort of bored 180 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.519 I think at that juncture of his life, and he 181 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.960 thought he would stir in his own words, he wanted 182 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:19.000 to stir up the hornet's nest again. 183 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:20.279 Right. 184 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.720 He had kind of a peculiar attachment to law enforcement. 185 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:26.759 I mean, in a very low level. I guess you 186 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.600 could say he was sort of an enforcement officer, but 187 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.840 he liked this idea of communicating with the police and 188 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:36.759 having some connection to them, and it's a very important 189 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.080 part of his story, especially in that last year leading 190 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:41.000 up to his arrest. 191 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.279 Now you talk about this twenty five years BTK is 192 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.240 back and the Wichita Police Department is ready to make 193 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:53.240 its first pronouncement in twenty five years. Who is the 194 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:57.200 face and the voice of the new investigation and tell 195 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:01.799 us what his approach is in terms when making these 196 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:06.639 public pronouncements and press conferences or press releases. What's the 197 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:07.240 new approach? 198 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:13.240 Once that raider BTK had sent in that driver's license 199 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.399 Vicky Wegerly, and they knew, and it went from the 200 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.320 paper to the police department, and they knew that he 201 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.919 was alive and out there and active. They had to 202 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.720 put together a strategy, a task force, and they and 203 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.039 the person to lead it was Lieutenant ken Land, where 204 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.600 this sort of soft spoken, mild mannered, you know, gray 205 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.000 haired guy who had a just a sort of a 206 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.200 calming presence about him. So when he came forward to 207 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.320 make the announcement in March of two thousand and four, 208 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:51.399 about three weeks after or a few days after Raider 209 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:56.480 had sent in that that letter, they and the idea 210 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.679 from the very beginning was that he wouldn't lendwear wouldn't 211 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.159 just talking to the general public when he had a 212 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:06.559 press conference, but that he would be speaking very directly 213 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.279 to the killer. He thought, if I can get this 214 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:12.159 guy to pay attention to what I'm doing, if I 215 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.519 can get him to feel a little bit connected to me. 216 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.440 It was very soft. It wasn't threatening or anything like that. 217 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:23.200 It was a very intelligent strategy because they knew that 218 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.519 what BTK craved was some sort of attention and some 219 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.960 sort of connection, and so he began basically speaking to him. 220 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.120 I'd really be interested in talking with this the person 221 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:38.279 and finding out who he is. And it spurred Raider 222 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:41.679 on to keep communicating with him, to keep sending in 223 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:46.200 these letters and these mementos of his crimes, and that's 224 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:48.879 that's really what led to his downfall. 225 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:53.679 Joyce. Let's talk about as you do in the book. 226 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:55.799 You write about in the book about that he was 227 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.120 born in nineteen forty five, Dennis Raider in Pittsburgh, Kansas, 228 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.919 and he was back tis Lutheran, and we should talk 229 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:05.200 about that Lutheran upbringing for all people that don't know, 230 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.440 as you point out the differences in the Lutheran religion 231 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:15.240 and Catholicism, and his mother Dorothea and his father William, 232 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.519 what was his upbringing like in and what were some 233 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.360 of the things that characterized that early childhood. 234 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.960 Well, all start out with that. He was the oldest 235 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.960 of four brothers. He considered himself to be sort of 236 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.919 the white sheep of the family, kind of prided himself 237 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.039 on doing everything, you know, by the book, by the rules. 238 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:38.639 But he had. 239 00:14:40.120 --> 00:14:42.360 He had this penchant at an early age, as many 240 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:47.159 serial killers do, to start experimenting with killing animals, you know, 241 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:52.200 birds and cats and dogs and finding secretive places to 242 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.600 take them to. He particularly liked barns because, you know, 243 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.120 they did live in a rural area and you could 244 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.200 easily get to a barn, would know one around, and 245 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.919 he could he could, you know, watch the life being 246 00:15:04.039 --> 00:15:08.320 sucked out of these young, these these small creatures. And 247 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:10.879 then he went to high school, where I believe he 248 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:13.960 met Oh no, let me backtrack. 249 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:14.039 A little bit. 250 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.600 He started reading and getting a hold of his father's 251 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:21.519 true detective magazines, and for people don't know what those 252 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.120 were like around in the fifties in the early sixties, 253 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:29.559 they were these sort of sensationalistic magazines with a woman 254 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.039 with terror in her eyes, sort of looking off in 255 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.519 the distance at some you know, shadowy figure, and he 256 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:41.639 claims that those magazines aroused him. He also claimed that 257 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.000 being spanked by his mother he found arousing. But I 258 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.320 always want I always have to take that with a 259 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.279 grain of salt because a lot of the times, I mean, 260 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.840 it's been proven that not everything that Dennis Raider said 261 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.279 was the was the truth. So we always kind of, 262 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:04.120 you know, ask was he really telling the truth about 263 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.879 that or was he just trying to rationalize why he 264 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.240 started developing this dark side. Then he went to high 265 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.480 school and he met his wife, Poladips. She was a 266 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.240 couple of years younger than him, but also a little 267 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.080 before that he began began to be a peeping tom. 268 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:29.120 Right, Yeah, And he had this this combination of sort 269 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:33.240 of you know, being in this very conservative place again, 270 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.440 a kind of town that I grew up in, about 271 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:40.960 a thousand people in Kansas, and yet having this artistic 272 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.639 bent that Jewish referred to earlier, where he liked to draw, 273 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.000 he liked to try to write and do things like 274 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:53.559 that not very necessarily very acceptable in the environment that 275 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:54.440 he grew up in. 276 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.679 I'm sorry, Stee. And he also did follow in his 277 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:59.559 father's footstep and went into the army. 278 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:04.839 So he had this sort of the drawings he made also, 279 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.480 by the way, were he would draw lines over women's 280 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.279 bodies as if they were bound up or mummies or 281 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:16.400 something of that nature. But you know, sometimes, and I 282 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.920 know for myself, you know, growing up in that kind 283 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:21.440 of environment, if you sort of have an artistic bent, 284 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.400 you have to sort of get out of that to 285 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.960 pursue it. But he did the opposite. He followed exactly 286 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.319 in his father's footsteps. He was in that church, he 287 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.200 graduated from high school, he went into the army. He 288 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:40.960 kept thinking, you know, if I just sort of go 289 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.680 down the straight and narrow path, these ideas I have, 290 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.960 these thoughts, these impulses, these dark urges might leave me 291 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.640 alone and go away. The army didn't help. Got married, 292 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:54.720 you know, that didn't help, and by then he'd sort 293 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:56.799 of graduated into stalking women. 294 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.880 He also claimed that while he was in the army 295 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.279 and in Asia, in Japan, in other places, that he 296 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.200 learned more about, you know, sexuality. 297 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:08.720 Okay, round two. 298 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.359 Name something that's not boring. 299 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.160 Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire. 300 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.920 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbu casino to chum. 301 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:23.799 That's right. 302 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.920 Chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino style games 303 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.000 joined today and play for free for your chance to 304 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.759 redeem some serious prizes to chum chumbucasino dot com. 305 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.480 NOSSD my logy plus starts the condition of the busy 306 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:37.559 website retails. 307 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.759 Lucky Land Casino, asking people what's the weirdest place you've 308 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:41.480 gotten lucky? 309 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:42.160 Lucky? 310 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:44.680 In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my 311 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.279 dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say? 312 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:48.680 Yes? 313 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:48.920 You do? 314 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:51.680 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 315 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:52.160 Really? 316 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.279 Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 317 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:56.559 I never win? 318 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.519 And tell well, there you have it. You could get 319 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.960 lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslaughts dot com play for free? 320 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:02.480 Right now? 321 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.960 Are you feeling lucky. 322 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.319 Else? 323 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:12.720 I on her? Then in late seventy three, he lost 324 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.440 his job and he was sort of at loose ends. 325 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:18.240 With a lot of time on his hands and feeling 326 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.039 sort of ineffectual. I think too. Yeah, so what he 327 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:22.720 mentioned to the. 328 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.799 Police later, right, So he began to establish this ritual, 329 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.799 which he named everything. Uh, he would give it, you know, 330 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:35.920 as Joyce said the BTK production so with trolling, and 331 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.160 trolling would be you know, going up and down the 332 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:47.519 streets looking for maybe a single target that would evolve 333 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:48.920 into stocking. 334 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.480 And he started naming his projects. 335 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:56.480 Yeah, and then that would evolve into you know, what's 336 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:58.759 the person's schedule, When did they come and go or 337 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:03.079 are they always alone? How much resistance might Julia Otero, 338 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.480 for example, put up And he noticed that she would 339 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.480 the older kids would go to school, but she would 340 00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:15.720 come back home with her young daughter, Josie. So he 341 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.599 settled in on this target, and he named the project 342 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.079 Little mex He. 343 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:24.720 Thought there were Mexicans, but actually they were from Puerto Rico. 344 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.799 So in his mind, finally, when he's actually ready to 345 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:34.039 commit a big crime for the first time, he's going 346 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.640 to go to the Otero house. The mother and the 347 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.559 daughter will be there. He thinks he can fairly easily 348 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.400 subdue them and then carry out what had really become 349 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:48.400 an overwhelming fantasy to him, which was basically to bind 350 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.400 them up, to torture them, and then ultimately to kill them. 351 00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:58.640 That was the plan. So when he arrived on the 352 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.640 morning of January fifteenth, nineteen seventy four, thinking everything was set, 353 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.759 he went into their garage and hid there, and he said, 354 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:10.799 he soon realized that there was a dog, a fairly 355 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.240 large dog in the house, and this wasn't something he 356 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:18.079 was counting on. But he waited. He was sweating so 357 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.200 hard that he swept through the gloves that were on 358 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:24.640 his hands, and he waited until this little boy came 359 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.240 out the back door, which. 360 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.960 Was their son, Yeah, Joey, he was nine years old. 361 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.680 Yeah, and he thought, you know, that's not part of 362 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:34.960 the plan either, but he just decided to go into 363 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:38.519 the house. So in all the history of crime, I mean, 364 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:43.640 this is one of the most interesting situations you could 365 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:46.200 sort of imagine. The family had all been trained in 366 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.160 martial arts. The father had been in the military. The 367 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.519 other three actually were being trained in martial arts, so 368 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.240 they knew sort of how to handle themselves, even though 369 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:56.160 the kids were young. 370 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.119 But do you have to remember at that time and 371 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.440 in that place in America, people didn't know a lot 372 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.279 about serial killers. It wasn't as you know, widely known 373 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:10.519 as it is now. People didn't lock their doors. So 374 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.599 when he got access to their house, he you know, 375 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.359 he showed him a gun, pulled out a gun and 376 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.599 said that he was a fugitive from California. He just 377 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:19.839 wanted to tie them up, you know, I think he 378 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:24.119 had a loaded twenty two caliber pistol pistol, and they complied, 379 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.720 you know, the father, everyone, and they just he just said, 380 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.680 I just watch your car. So they allowed him to 381 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:34.240 tie them up. Now today people would probably not allow that, 382 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.640 well if. 383 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:39.960 There were four people present, two adults, but they did. 384 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:45.519 They complied, and he just proceeded to strangle the father 385 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.759 first and then and then the mother, and then he 386 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.319 went to the boy and then he. 387 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:00.279 Ripped it off and he had to go back back, 388 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:02.519 and you know, he had to do the same thing 389 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.720 with the son. It was not any process, and he 390 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.240 had to learn from his mistakes, as many serial killers do. 391 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:15.720 So to sort of get the dichotomy of his this 392 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.160 needed to be stronger. So when he would go home 393 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.599 to his house in Park City above Wichita, sat on 394 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.400 the couch with his wife and watch television, he would 395 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.640 squeeze these rubber balls to make his hand stronger for 396 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.480 the next kill. And that's kind of says a lot 397 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:38.519 about his life. And he would also hide souvenirs or 398 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:41.480 other things about the crimes in this house. This house 399 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.000 was nine hundred square feet, that's quite small if you 400 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:47.960 can envision that. And he's living with this woman and 401 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.799