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Speaker 1: Imagine the texture of fear, real palpable fear. It is

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December nineteen ninety two, right, a cold, crisp night in Houston, Texas.

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Maybe you are driving home after a late shift. You know,

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the heater is just humming against the chill. Or maybe

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you're asleep in your bed, perfectly safe under the covers,

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and suddenly the ambient noise of this city, all of it, Yeah,

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the distant traffic, the hum of the refrigerator, the wind

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against the glass, it just cuts out absolute silence.

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Speaker 2: And that silence is almost always the first sign. It's

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the precursor to the shift right, and then the world shifts.

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Speaker 1: You aren't in Houston anymore. You aren't in your car,

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you aren't in your bed. You are somewhere sterile, somewhere

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incredibly cool, and you are surrounded by entities that do

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not look like you. And the absolute worst part, you

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know instinctively that this has happened to you before.

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Speaker 2: And the most terrifying part of that scenario isn't even

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the isolation. It isn't the creatures themselves. It is the

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realization that happens later when you try to tell someone

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what happened to.

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Speaker 1: You exactly because usually when we hear abduction stories, it's

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a deeply lonely experience. It's one person in the dark

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wondering if they just entirely lost their mind.

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Speaker 2: They dismiss it.

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Speaker 1: We do. We say, oh, it's sleep paralysis or a hallucination,

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or just a plea for attention. But this specific incident

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was different. We are talking about the Houston mass subduction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the case that breaks the mold. It

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really does.

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Speaker 1: Eight different people, eight members of the Houston UFO network.

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They are all reporting independent abduction that occurred on this

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exact same night.

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Speaker 2: And that is the detail that transforms this from a

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spooky anecdote into a solid data set. In intelligence analysis,

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which is the lens we are using today, we look

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for corroboration. These eight people didn't just share some vague

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feeling of missing time. No, they have specifics, highly specific

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They identified the exact interior lay out of the craft,

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They identified the entities, and in a detail that honestly

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makes the hair on the back of my next stand up,

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they identified each other.

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Speaker 1: That is the kicker.

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Speaker 2: It really is. Imagine waking up in a literal nightmare,

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looking across the sterile room and seeing your neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I am your host, and today

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we are initiating a protocol we love to call thrilling threads.

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We aren't just swapping ghost stories around a campfire. Here.

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We are taking the raw.

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Speaker 2: Data, the eyewitness testimony.

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Speaker 1: Exactly eyewitness testimony, historical documents dating all the way back

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to the sixteen hundreds, and strange biological anomalies, and we

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were pulling at those loose threads to see if they

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weave a coherent and frankly, a pretty terrifying tapestry.

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Speaker 2: And my role here is to keep us grounded in

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the patterns, because if you look at the phenomenon of

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high strangeness, it is so easy to get lost in

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the noise.

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Speaker 1: There's so much noise.

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Speaker 2: Out there, there is, but if you filter that out,

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you start to see a highly organized structure. We are

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looking at the abduction phenomenon today not as a series

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of random scares, but potentially as a deeply managed long

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term program.

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Speaker 1: A program with a time timeline.

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Speaker 2: And if the sources we are diving into today are correct,

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a deadline.

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Speaker 1: That is the thrilling thread that we are going to

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follow all the way to the very end. Today we

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are going to move from the suburbs of Houston to

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the Puritan colonies of sixteen thirty nine, through the really

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clumsy cover ups of Roswell, straight into the disturbing genetics

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of the hybridization program, and then underground. Yes, finally, we

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are going deep underground to look at ancient evidence that suggests, well,

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they have been here a lot longer than we have.

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Speaker 2: It's a massive network casting, but it all points to

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the exact same center.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back to Houston nineteen ninety two. I

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really want to unpack the investigation itself because the way

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this was handled completely separates it from your standard you know,

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I saw a Light in the sky kind of story. Right,

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this was investigated by Darryl Simms. Now, Simms is a character.

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Speaker 2: He absolutely is. Daryl Simms is a polarizing figure in

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this field. He's often called the alien Hunter, but his

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background is the key here. He is a former US

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intelligence operative and he's a master hypnotist.

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Speaker 1: Which changes the whole dynamic completely.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't approach these people like a therapist trying to

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heal their emotional trauma. He approaches them like a detective

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working a high K case. He assumes there is a

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massive conspiracy and he looks for the leaks.

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Speaker 1: He treated it like a literal crime scene exactly.

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Speaker 2: The methodology is what gives this entire case its weight.

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He isolated the witnesses. This is absolutely crucial. You have

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eight people, you do not let them meet for coffee.

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You don't let them sit and swap stories in the waiting.

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Speaker 1: Room lobby, right, because then their stories merge.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you interview them strictly separately. You completely blind them

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to each other's testimony to.

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Speaker 1: Prevent cross contamination. I mean that is just law enforcement

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one oh one.

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Speaker 2: Precisely in witness testimony, cross contamination is the absolute enemy.

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If I say to you, hey, did you see the

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blue light? Your brain might just invent a blue light

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just to be helpful to me.

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Speaker 1: Right. People want to please the.

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Speaker 2: Investigator exactly, But Simms didn't lead them. He used deep

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progression hypnotherapy to bypass their conscious screen memories.

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Speaker 1: Let's explain screen memories real quick for anyone who isn't familiar.

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Speaker 2: Sure. Screen memories are these fake placeholder memories that the

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human mind creates to block out severe trauma. So instead

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of remembering a terrifying entity. An abductee might remember seeing

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a giant owl staring at them through the window, or

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a deer standing unnaturally still in the road.

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Speaker 1: The brain just throws up a generic image to protect.

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Speaker 2: Itself, exactly. But sims bypassed those screens and he got

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straight to the raw data.

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Speaker 1: And the raw data across all eight people was identical.

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Speaker 2: Structurally identical. They all described the transfer process. They weren't

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just magically beamed up. They were physically taken from their

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homes or their cars into a smaller secondary scout craft,

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and then that craft physically transported them up to a

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much larger mothership. It implies a whole system of logistics.

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It implies a shuttle service.

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Speaker 1: It feels bureaucratic. It's like catching a connecting flight at

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a major hub airport.

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Speaker 2: It creates a terrifying sense of scale. This isn't just

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some joy ride. This is an industrial operation. But the

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detail that we really need to stop and analyze, the

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thread that ties this to our central theme for this

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deep dive is the map.

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Speaker 1: The map. Yes, one of the abductees under very deep

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progression described seeing a visual display on the wall of

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the craft, and.

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Speaker 2: This is the ticking clock of our discussion today. Usually

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when abductees report seeing displays, they see star.

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Speaker 1: Charts, right dots and lines connecting different solar systems exactly.

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Speaker 2: Betty Hill famously saw a star map. But this Houston

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witness saw a timeline, a visual linear representation of this

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specific alien group's involvement with humanity.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't a short timeline we aren't talking about,

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you know, since the atomic bomb in eighteen forty seven.

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Speaker 2: No, the witness interpreted the data on that wall to

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represent approximately six thousand years, six millennia of interaction.

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Speaker 1: Or management or whatever you want to call it, which

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perfectly tracks with the beginning of what we can consider

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human civilization in Samaria and Egypt exactly.

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Speaker 2: But the sheer span of history isn't the scary part.

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It is the position of the you are here marker

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on that timeline.

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Speaker 1: The witness said, we were at the very very end

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of it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they described the timeline as a long visual bar

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representing that entire six thousand year history and the marker

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for current time. And remember the current time for this

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witness is nineteen ninety two. That marker was in the

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final tiny terminal sliver of the bar.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: The witness estimated that relative to the massive six thousand

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year span, there is only about one hundred years left

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on the clock.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to pause right there and just let

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that sink in for a second. That puts a very

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specific tangible date on this whole thing. If the timeline

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ends exactly one hundred years from nineteen ninety two, we

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are looking at a hard deadline of twenty ninety two, correct,

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Which means, as you are listening to us talk about

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this right now, we are well over a third of

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the way through that final countdown. We are moving rapidly

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toward the end of that bar.

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Speaker 2: It forces a really uncomfort question what happens when the

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bar runs out? If this has been a six thousand

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year experiment, or a farming operation or some sort of

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genetic uplift program, what actually happens at the completion date?

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What happens at the harvest?

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Speaker 1: You use the word harvest, That is a really heavy word.

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It implies consumption, or at the very least, utility. We

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are being used for something. But it fits perfectly with

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the description of the museum that the witnesses saw inside

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that mother ship.

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Speaker 2: It does Darryl Simms often refers to the specific area

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of the craft as the archive. The witnesses were led

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through this massive, cavernous hall, and it wasn't a sterile

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medical bay with bright surgical lights. It was a gallery,

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a gallery of what they saw species, yes, animals and

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human beings.

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Speaker 1: Human beings inside glass cases.

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Speaker 2: In suspension. Yes. The witness was incredibly adamant about this distinction.

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During the hypnosis, they said, I don't think they were dead.

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I think they were in suspended animation. They were frozen,

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they were being stored.

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Speaker 1: See this immediately makes me think of the Missing four

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one one phenomenal. Absolutely, we have thousands and thousands of

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people who just vanish in national parks without a single trace,

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no boots, no bones, no equipment ever found. The tracking

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dogs just stop at a tree line and sit down.

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Speaker 2: The scent just vanishes into thin air.

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Speaker 1: Right, And we always just assume, well, they fell in

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a ravine, or they got disoriented, or they got eaten

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by a mountain lion. But if there is an active,

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ongoing archival program happening above.

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Speaker 2: Us, it is a terrifyingly logical explanation for total traceless disappearances.

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If you are running a massive genetic library. You don't

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want dead, decaying DNA. You don't want a corpse. You

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want living, breathing samples preserved perfectly in stasis. Wow, if

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the grand experiment of Earth is nearing its end date,

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maybe you start grabbing the best samples you can find

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to store them before the lab closes down for good.

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Speaker 1: That is such a bleak thought. The lab is closing.

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Speaker 2: Time to pack up the racks, or, to use a

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different metaphor, the flood is coming. Time to load the arc.

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Speaker 1: Right, respective matters whether it's a farm or an arc,

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the result is the same for us. But is this

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unique to nineteen ninety two? Because one of the things

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we promised you at the start of this deep dive

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is that we would pull this thread way back through history.

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Speaker 2: We have to because skeptics always say the same thing.

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They say UFOs are just a modern invention. They were

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created by Cold War paranoia in nineteen fifties Hollywood b movies, and.

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Speaker 1: The historical record proves that is simply not true. The

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terminology changes. Obviously, they didn't have the word ufo or

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alien back then. But the core phenomenon, the lights, the

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impossible physics, the abductions. It is remarkably consistent for centuries exactly.

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Speaker 2: Let's look at the Puritan connection sixteen thirty nine, Boston.

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Speaker 1: This is wild. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the strongest historical cases we have

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purely because of the credibility of the source. We are

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talking about John Winthrop. Right, he isn't the town gossip.

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He isn't a guy looking to sell a science fiction book.

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He is the governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

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Speaker 1: He's the guy on the money figurevatively speaking.

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Speaker 2: Literally in some historical contexts, his journal is the absolute

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bedrock of early American history. If John Winthrop writes about

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corn yields in sixteen thirty nine, modern historians believe him

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without question. If he writes about the harsh winter or

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the laws regarding livestock, it's accepted as historical fact.

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Speaker 1: But then, right next to the mundane notes about corn yields,

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he writes about James.

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Speaker 2: Avro exactly, James Avro, whom Winthrop specifically describes as a

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sober and discreet man, meaning he wasn't a town junkard,

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and he wasn't known for spinning tall tails.

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Speaker 1: A reliable witness, highly reliable.

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Speaker 2: So Avro, along with two other men, is rowing a

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small boat down the muddy River in Boston. It is night,

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pitch black. Remember this is sixteen thirty nine. There is

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zero light pollution, no street lights, no neon signs, just

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the stars in the dark water. And suddenly they see

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a massive, brilliant light in the sky.

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Speaker 1: And here's where the language gets a little tricky and frankly,

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a little funny if you don't understand the historical context.

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Winthrop rites in his official journal that the light contracted

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into the shape of a swinehig.

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Speaker 2: It sounds totally absurd to us today, a glowing space

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pig hovering over colonial Boston. But we really have to

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apply a strict linguistic filter.

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Speaker 1: Here, right, We have to put ourselves in their shoes.

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Speaker 2: These are puritans, They are farmers and settlers. They don't

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have the word fuselage. They don't have cigar shaped craft

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or tic tech or dirigible in their vocabulary.

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Speaker 1: They don't even have machinery in the modern sense of

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the word. A wagon wheel is their highest tech exactly.

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Speaker 2: Their entire vocabulary is agricultural. Their entire world is defined

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by animals and crops. So if you are a Puritan

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in sixteen thirty nine. And you see a glowing oblong

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metallic object, perhaps with four landing year struts protruding from

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the bottom. What is the closest shape in your mental encyclopedia.

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Speaker 1: A pig, an oval, thick body with four short, stubby legs.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. He was just describing the physical geometry of the

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craft using the absolute only metaphors he had available to him.

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He wasn't saying it was literally a giant glowing pick.

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He was saying it was swinelike in its form.

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Speaker 1: It makes so much sense when you break it down.

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It is like if we saw a fourth dimensional object

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floating in the sky today, we would probably describe it

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as a shifting cube or something, because that is the

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math we know. We're always limited by our current language always.

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Speaker 2: But the pig description isn't even the most important part

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of winterrops century. It is the physics of what happened.

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Speaker 1: Next, the movement of the objects.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Winter records that this light shot back and forth

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across the sky swift.

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Speaker 1: As an arrow, which implies instantaneous acceleration inertia defying speed,

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the exact same kind of movement Navy pilots are reporting

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with the tic TACs today and then we get the

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missing time anomaly. The boat tell him about the boat.

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Speaker 2: So the men watched this light darting around for what

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they thought was maybe a few minutes, maybe an hour

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at most. But when the light finally vanished, they suddenly

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realized they weren't why they should have been on the river.

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They were miles upstream.

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Speaker 1: Now, anyone who has ever rowed a boat knows exactly

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how exhausting it is to row upstream.

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Speaker 2: It's grueling, and they had been rowing against the tide

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when they saw the light. Yet when it disappeared, they

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had moved further up the river than was physically possible

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for three men to row in that timeframe. And they

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had absolutely no memory of how they got there. They

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had been moved, they had been physically displaced.

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Speaker 1: That's classic displacement.

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Speaker 2: It is the absolute hallmark of modern adduction reports. Missing time,

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deep disorientation, physical displacement. It happened to Betty and Barney

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Hill in nineteen sixty one, it happened to Travis Walton

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in nineteen seventy five, and it happened to James Avrou

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in sixteen thirty nine. The core phenomenon is completely stable,

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only our cultural description of it changes over time.

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Speaker 1: It really just pulls the rug out from right of

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the hole. It's just a modern movie trope.

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Speaker 2: Argument completely destroys it.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of descriptions changing, let's move forward a bit to

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the Founding Fathers. I think there's a really weird gap

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in our history books. Here. We learn all about their politics,

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we'll learn about the Declaration of Independence, but we don't

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learn anything about their cosmology. No, we don't. I think

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there's a major misconception today that believing in aliens or

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extraterrestrial life is somehow anti intellectual, that it's fringe. Yeah,

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But back in the seventeen hundreds, it was actually the

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ultimate sign of a high IQ.

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Speaker 2: It was the smart man's belief without a doubt. It

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was called the plurality of worlds. Men like Benjamin Franklin,

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John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson were deeply, deeply interested in astronomy.

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They were men of science and reason. They looked at

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the sheer, staggering size of the universe that was slowly

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being revealed by better and better telescopes, and they concluded

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that it was the height of human arrogance. To think

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Earth was entirely unique.

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Speaker 1: It was almost a purely statistical argument for that it was.

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Speaker 2: They argued, if God is truly infinite, why would he

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create a universe of infinite waste? Why have billions and

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billions of stars if only one tiny rock, or being

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one average star has life on it. It just seemed

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wildly inefficient to them.

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Speaker 1: But there was a line you couldn't cross with this theory,

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and Thomas Pain, who was always the firebrand, he crossed it.

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Speaker 2: Thomas Pain is such a tragic figure in this specific context.

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The man wrote common Sense. He practically ignited the American

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Revolution with his pamphlets. He was a massive hero. But

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in seventeen ninety three he wrote a book called The

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Age of Reason, and in it he tried to logically

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reconcile the existence of aliens with Christianity.

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Speaker 1: And the Church did not like that at all.

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Speaker 2: He made a logical argument that absolutely devastated the religious

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dogma of the time. He said, effectively, if there are

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infinite worlds out there, with infinite populations, does Jesus go

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to every single one of them, get born, get crucified,

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and die over and over again for all of eternity?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that brings up a massive logistical issue for theology.

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Speaker 2: It's a huge issue. Pain argued that the one world

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at a time concept of salvation just didn't make any

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sense for an infinite creator. Argued that the traditional Christian

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narrative was just too small for the massive universe that

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science was discovering. But putting this in print got him

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officially branded a dangerous heretic, and.

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Speaker 1: The consequences for him were incredibly real, very real.

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Speaker 2: He was over in France at the time, and he

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actually got arrested during their revolution for political reasons. But

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the sad part is he blamed George Washington for letting

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him rot in that French prison. Really, yes, he felt

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that Washington entirely abandoned him because Paine's views on extraterrestrials

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and religion had made him politically toxic back home, so

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he'd had an absolute outcast.

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Speaker 1: So the stigma, the public ridicule, that isn't a new

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invention by the CIA. It's been used to silence people

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on this topic for over two hundred years.

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Speaker 2: It is the ultimate control mechanism. If you can't logically

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disprove the idea, you just aggressively ridicule the person holding it.

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You push them so far to the fringe that polite

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society feels they don't have to listen to them anymore.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us perfectly to the ultimate moment of ridicule

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and government cover up, nineteen forty seven.

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Speaker 2: Roswell the great turning point.

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Speaker 1: We have to talk about Roswell, obviously, but I want

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to focus on something a little different than the usual narrative.

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Usually people just talk about the crash itself. I want

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to talk about the sheer incompetence of the coverup. I

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was a mess because we tend to think of the

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government and the military as these master manipulators playing forty

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chess with the public. But in nineteen forty seven they

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really fumbled the ball.

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Speaker 2: They tanicked. It was absolute panic. It was early July.

378
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Mac Brazil, a local rancher, finds this massive debris field

379
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on his property. Now this isn't a guy who gets

380
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easily confused by wind blown trash. He lives out there.

381
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He knows exactly what weather balloons look like, he knows

382
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what standard tinfoil looks like. But he finds this strange material,

383
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the memory metal.

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Speaker 1: This is the detail that never ever leaves the story

385
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the foil right.

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Speaker 2: Major Jesse Marcel, who is the prime intelligence officer for

387
00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:00,319
the five hundred ninth bomb Group. He actually out and

388
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,480
handled this stuff himself, and he was so mind blown

389
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:05,640
by it that he brought some of it home and

390
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,440
laid it out on his kitchen floor. He showed it

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to his young son, which, by the way, is.

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Speaker 1: A wild breach of military protocol.

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Speaker 2: It just shows how utterly baffled he was by what

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he was looking at. He described the material as being

395
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as light as a feather, but you couldn't cut it

396
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with shears, you couldn't burn it with a lighter, and

397
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,079
you couldn't even dent it with a heavy sledgehammer.

398
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: And the memory aspect of it, Yes.

399
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 2: If you took a piece of it and crumpled it

400
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:29,240
up tightly into a ball on your fist, the moment

401
00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:32,359
you let go, it would fluidly uncrump itself right back

402
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,559
to a perfectly flat, rigid surface, no creases, no wrinkles,

403
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:37,799
no signs it had ever been bent.

404
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 1: I mean, we have barely mastered nittinal memory alloys today

405
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,759
modern engineering. In nineteen forty seven, this was basically magic.

406
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It was Arthur C. Clarke's exact definition of magic.

407
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Speaker 2: It was impossible technology for the era and the bodies.

408
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,599
We definitely have to mention the bodies. The internal sources

409
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,720
indicate that five biological entities were recovered from the secondary

410
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,279
crash site. Small maybe three and a half to four

411
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feet tall, large disproportionate heads, large black wraparound.

412
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Speaker 1: Eyes, the classic gray architect exactly.

413
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 2: And they were allegedly put into hermetically sealed coffin sized

414
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,599
boxes and shipped off to highly classified research areas.

415
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Speaker 1: And then comes the press release. To me, this is

416
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the absolute smoking gun of the entire Roswell incident.

417
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 2: It is arguably the only time in modern history that

418
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the US military has actually told the truth about UFOs.

419
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,000
And it lasted exactly twenty four hours. The public information

420
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officer of the base issued an official statement that literally

421
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:38,160
read our AAF captures flying saucer on ranch in Roswell region.

422
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It ran in the local papers, it was broadcast on

423
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the radio.

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Speaker 1: And then what happened the next day. The very next day,

425
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General Ramie flies in all the way from Fort Worth, Texas.

426
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He calls a press conference, holds up some very obvious,

427
00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:53,920
flimsy pieces of rubber and standard tinfoil for the newspaper

428
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,880
cameras material that clearly wasn't what Marcel had described, and

429
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he basically says, sorry, folks, nothing to see here. It

430
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was just a balloon.

431
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Speaker 2: It is incredibly insulting to our intelligence. You are asking

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the American public to believe that the five hundred and

433
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,119
ninth bomb Group, which let's remember was the only atomic

434
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,519
bomb wing in the entire world at that time, the

435
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,960
absolute elite of the elite military personnel, that they couldn't

436
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,480
tell the difference between a neopren rubber balloon with a

437
00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:24,039
foil radar reflector and a craft extraterrestrial spacecraft exactly. It

438
00:21:24,079 --> 00:21:28,599
implies that our primary nuclear custodians are bumbling idiots, which

439
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,759
they absolutely weren't. They were covering it up. But as

440
00:21:31,799 --> 00:21:37,000
researcher Sabina Magleoco points out so brilliantly, this massive public

441
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:42,599
fumble birthed the modern conspiracy theorist because before Roswell, Americans

442
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,920
generally trusted their government implicitly. After Roswell, the seed was

443
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,119
planted deep in the cultural consciousness, the idea that wait

444
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,079
a minute, they know something huge and they are actively

445
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,680
lying to us. In a democracy and if they.

446
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Speaker 1: Are lying with that level of panic, it is probably

447
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:01,119
because the truth is far too disturbing to share with

448
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,839
the general public, which naturally leads us right back to

449
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the abductions. We talked about the history, but we really

450
00:22:06,599 --> 00:22:09,400
need to look at the biology, the physical reality, Yes,

451
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,799
the physical reality of what actually happens to people on

452
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:13,920
their ships, because it isn't just standing around looking at

453
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timeline maps on a.

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Speaker 2: Wall, No, not at all. It is deeply physically invasive.

455
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,000
We have to look at the Adam and Eve of

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00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:23,960
this modern phenomenon. Betty and Barney Hill nineteen sixty one.

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Speaker 1: Their story is incredibly famous, but I think people gloss

458
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,920
over how gruesome the migable details actually were.

459
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,279
Speaker 2: They really do under a clinical hypnosis, Betty described a

460
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,240
terrifying procedure. She said a very long needle was inserted

461
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directly into her navel, and the entities communicated to her

462
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that it was a pregnancy test.

463
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Speaker 1: Which to a modern ear sounds exactly like a forced

464
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egg extraction.

465
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Speaker 2: That is the consensus modern interpretation. Yes, and Barney Hill

466
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,359
described a cuplike device being placed securely over his genitals.

467
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,640
Sperm samples were taken, skin samples were scraped. This wasn't

468
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,839
some sort of friendly diplomat meet and greet. This was

469
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,000
a cold, clinical, biological survey. They were treating the hills

470
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:08,440
exactly like we treat wild fauna when we tag and

471
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release them.

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Speaker 1: And that theme gets so much darker as we move

473
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,480
into the eighties and nineties. Let's talk about Kim Carlsberg.

474
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,240
Her story is so visceral.

475
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 2: Kim Carlsberg's account really takes the horror to the next level.

476
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,880
She was a highly successful commercial photographer living in Pacific

477
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,240
Palisades in nineteen eighty eight, just a normal professional person.

478
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,920
She sees a light jetting into the stars, and then

479
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,519
she is taken. She wakes up paralyzed, naked, surrounded by

480
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:36,400
these small, off white beings, and she describes the environment

481
00:23:36,599 --> 00:23:39,559
not as the bridge of a spaceship, but as a clinic.

482
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: She specifically talked about being used.

483
00:23:42,319 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: That is a true horror of her account. She explicitly

484
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,759
said I was being used for my DNA. She described

485
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,680
an ongoing multi year cycle. She would be taken from

486
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,880
her bed, artificially impregnated, and then a few months later taken.

487
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,559
Speaker 1: Again and the fetus what happened to it?

488
00:23:56,599 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 2: Removed harvested from her body. She described being away and

489
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,599
seeing vast rooms inside this craft filled with glowing tanks,

490
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,960
and inside those tanks were small hybrid fetuses, floating and fluid,

491
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:11,039
half human and half something else entirely.

492
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,079
Speaker 1: Okay, this brings us to the massive why of this

493
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,720
whole deep dive. Why would an incredibly advanced civilization, one

494
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,799
that can travel faster than light or maybe even move

495
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:26,079
fluidly between dimensions. Why would they ever need to steal

496
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,000
genetic material from a photographer in California? Why do they

497
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:30,920
need us at all?

498
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,519
Speaker 2: Our sources, particularly the deeply researched work by George Nori

499
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,920
and Linda Malton Howe boil this down to three primary theories,

500
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,720
and frankly, none of them are particularly comforting. They all

501
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:47,640
severely diminish our status as the so called crown of creation.

502
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,559
Speaker 1: Break those three theories down for us.

503
00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:52,599
Speaker 2: Theory A is what they call the arc. This connects

504
00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:55,440
directly back to the timeline map we discussed earlier, the

505
00:24:55,519 --> 00:24:58,319
idea that the experiment is ending. Maybe these entities know

506
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,200
that Earth is doomed, either by our o ecological collapse

507
00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:04,000
or a cosmic event, and they are systematically backing up

508
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:04,960
our genetic.

509
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Code, like saving data onto a hard drive.

510
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,799
Speaker 2: Exactly, they are saving the biological software, which is our

511
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,440
DNA before they just scrap the planetary hardware.

512
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,839
Speaker 1: So it's essentially a rescue mission. But they don't actually

513
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:17,400
care about you or me as individuals. They just want

514
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,680
the genetic library secured spot on.

515
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 2: It is cold calculated preservation. Now, theory B is evolutionary management.

516
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,720
This is the idea that Earth is essentially a massive

517
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:31,480
Petri dish. We aren't developing naturally, We are being constantly

518
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:35,200
tweaked and pruned. Maybe our inherent aggression is too high

519
00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:38,359
or our spiritual intelligence is too low, and they are

520
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,559
hybridizing us to fix the flaws in our design.

521
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,839
Speaker 1: So genetic engineering on a global planetary scale.

522
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:47,559
Speaker 2: Yes, we are an ongoing lab experiment. And then there

523
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:48,400
is theory C.

524
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: Theory C.

525
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:51,559
Speaker 2: Theory C is, without a doubt, the darkest. It is

526
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:54,359
the farm theory, the idea that they are actually the

527
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,880
dying race. They have cloned and genetically modified themselves for

528
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,599
so many millennia that they have lost all their original

529
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,200
genetic viability. They are suffering from severe terminal genetic degradation.

530
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,839
Speaker 1: So they need fresh DNA to survive.

531
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: They need us like a vampire needs blood. We are

532
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,079
the fresh, vibrant stock. They are harvesting our reproductive material

533
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,839
simply to save themselves from extinction.

534
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: And that perfectly aligns with the museum concept we talked

535
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,839
about earlier. I mean, you don't ask the cattle for

536
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,480
permission to take a stake. You don't ask the lab

537
00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:25,519
rat to sign a consent form before you take a

538
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:26,160
blood sample.

539
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: You absolutely do not. It assumes a strict, rigid hierarchy

540
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,279
where humans are permanently at the bottom of the food chain.

541
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I need to pivot here because we have been

542
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,079
looking up at the sky this entire time talking about

543
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,160
space and craft. But there is a whole other dimension

544
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,720
to this thread that looks down, straight down underground. Because

545
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,000
if you're going to farm a massive population of eight

546
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:52,200
billion people, you need to live somewhat close to.

547
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: The farm, right Strategically speaking, Yes, if you wanted to

548
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,200
hide a massive operational base on Earth, where is the

549
00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,680
absolutely one place humans can not easily go?

550
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: Deep underground? Yeah? I mean we can barely drill a

551
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,160
few miles down for oil. It is incredibly hot, it

552
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,839
is insanely high pressure. It is the perfect impenetrable camouflage.

553
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: Precisely, and this is exactly where we get into the

554
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,720
ancient ant people legends and the Shaman's panel hidden away

555
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:16,559
in the Grand Canyon.

556
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,279
Speaker 1: Tell me about the technology used on the Shaman's panel,

557
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,920
because this is fascinating science. It beautifully bridges the gap

558
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,480
between ancient folklore and modern forensics.

559
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: The technique is called photogrammetry. Researchers Greg Downing and Eric

560
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,519
Hanson went deep into these restricted ancient rock art sites

561
00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:37,799
in the canyon. Now, to the naked human eye, these panels,

562
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:40,759
which are many thousands of years old, they just look

563
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,640
like faded, reddish smudges.

564
00:27:43,039 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: On the rock wall, right, just ancient graffiti exactly.

565
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: But Downing and Hanson took thousands of ultra high resolution

566
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,119
photos of the rock face and they used advanced software

567
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,559
to build incredibly detailed three D models. Then they digitally

568
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:00,960
stripped away the microscopic layers of mineral build up natural oxidation.

569
00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:03,519
Speaker 1: They essentially cleaned the painting in a virtual space.

570
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: Exactly, and underneath the visible surface level art they found

571
00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:09,640
ghost layers. Older images that had been painted over are

572
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,319
completely faded by the passage of time, and these ghost

573
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,119
layers showed very strange anthropomorphic figures, large bulbous eyes, odd

574
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,279
shaped heads, torso shapes that just do not match human anatomy.

575
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,839
And these figures were depicted interacting closely with the ancient tribes.

576
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: So this wasn't just some shamans drug induced imagination. They

577
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,519
were actively documenting a real physical relationship, a.

578
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: Relationship that, according to Deep Hope legend, actually saved their

579
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,839
entire civilization. The Hopies speak very reverently of the Ant people,

580
00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:42,880
which they call the Anusnome. They say that during the

581
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,880
great cataclysms of the ancient pastimes, when there was fire

582
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,039
raining down and then later ice covering the surface, the

583
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:52,880
Ant people took the Hope deep underground into their cavern cities.

584
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,799
Speaker 1: They took them into the subterranean bunkers.

585
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: Yes, they took them down, fed them, and taught them

586
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,920
how to survive until the surface was safe again.

587
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: That's incredible. But as we know, not all underground legends

588
00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:04,880
are friendly rescue stories.

589
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,319
Speaker 2: No, we definitely have to talk about Richard Shaver, the

590
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:10,880
infamous Shaver mystery. This is a wild wild rabbit Hole.

591
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:12,519
Speaker 1: Set the scene for US nineteen forty five.

592
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: Nineteen forty five Amazing Stories magazine, which was a very

593
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,759
popular sci fi publication at the time. A man named

594
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,920
Richard Shaver writes a story called I Remember Lemria, but

595
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,119
he sends an urgent, frantic letter to the editor along

596
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,200
with the manuscript, insisting this is not fiction, this is

597
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:28,960
real history.

598
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: He claimed he was a victim of abduction, yes.

599
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: But not by aliens from outer space. He claimed he

600
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,319
was abducted by beings from deep inside the Earth. He

601
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,759
stated that the Earth's crust is totally honeycombed with massive caverns,

602
00:29:43,039 --> 00:29:45,519
and they are inhabited by a race he called the Darros,

603
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:48,880
which stands for detrimental robots, but he.

604
00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:51,799
Speaker 1: Meant robots in the sense of biological machines, right, not

605
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,119
like clunky metal.

606
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,119
Speaker 2: Mass right, biological entities acting on dark programming. He described

607
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,559
them as the degenerate, mutated remnants of a super advanced

608
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,839
ancient race that fled underground when our son became highly

609
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,839
radioactive eons ago. Some of that race left in spaceships,

610
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,920
but the ones left behind degenerated into these Darrows, and

611
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,319
they a hostile extremely He claimed. They use ancient mech

612
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,960
which are these massive machines left behind that they barely

613
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,559
even understand how to operate anymore to actively torture surface dwellers.

614
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,200
He blamed them for causing accidents, manipulating human minds, and

615
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:27,480
kidnapping people off the surface for food and experiments.

616
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:29,759
Speaker 1: I mean, on its face, it sounds like pure pulp

617
00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:30,720
fiction madness.

618
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,279
Speaker 2: It does. It sounds like the textbook definition of schizophrenia.

619
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:38,079
But Shaver had physical evidence, or at least he claimed,

620
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:39,759
to the rock books.

621
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Right tell us about the rock books.

622
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,279
Speaker 2: He would find these specific stones, mostly geodes and agates,

623
00:30:46,279 --> 00:30:49,599
that he firmly believed were sliced cross sections of ancient

624
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:56,200
informational devices books. He claimed they contained complex, holographic, multifaceted

625
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,920
imagery embedded right into the crystal structure.

626
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:00,079
Speaker 1: How do you read them.

627
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: He said, If you looked at them at the exact

628
00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:05,519
right angle with the right light source, they projected detailed

629
00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:09,559
pictures of this lost underground civilization. He was convinced these

630
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:12,799
weren't random geological patterns, but high tech artifacts from a

631
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:16,079
pre human culture that was over thirty thousand years old.

632
00:31:16,119 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: Whether Shaver was genuinely mentally ill or whether he was

633
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,000
actually tapping into something real but lacking the vocabulary to

634
00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:25,480
explain it, his core narrative perfectly aligns with so many

635
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:26,640
other modern stories.

636
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:29,799
Speaker 2: It really does look at the research of David Childress

637
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:33,480
the whole crypto terrestrial theory. When you layer Shaver's wild

638
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:37,640
claims with the Phil Schneider accounts of massive underground firefights

639
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000
in the nineties or the persistent rumors of multi level

640
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:45,480
genetic bases in Dilce, New Mexico, the thread holds tight.

641
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: The idea that the aliens we keep looking up for

642
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,839
might not be extraterrestrial at all. They might be cryptoterestrics.

643
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: Exactly. They have been here the whole time, just a

644
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,680
few miles beneath their feet, completely out of sight.

645
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,359
Speaker 1: We are just the oblivious tenants living on the roof.

646
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920
They are the actual landlords, managing everything from the basement.

647
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: That is exactly the dynamic it implies.

648
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,319
Speaker 1: So let's take a breath and really try to pull

649
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:11,480
this entire tapestry together. It is a terrifying picture when

650
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,359
you step back, but we need to see the whole

651
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,079
image clearly.

652
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: Let's gather the threads.

653
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: We have a literal map seen on our ship in

654
00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:20,079
nineteen ninety two that says the Grand experiment ends around

655
00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:23,799
twenty ninety two we have sober Puritans in sixteen thirty

656
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,359
nine seeing the exact same craft and experiencing the exact

657
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,880
same missing time physics anomalies that we see reported today.

658
00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:34,319
We have the US government in nineteen forty seven terrified

659
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,440
enough to completely lie to the world about recovered memory

660
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,559
metal and biological bodies. And we have a deeply invasive

661
00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:45,440
biological program that is actively harvesting human DNA to create hybrids.

662
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: And we have the ancient Underground Connection strongly suggesting a permanent,

663
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,559
subterranean presence on this planet. When you say it all

664
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:54,480
in one breath like that, the conclusion is incredibly hard

665
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,759
to avoid. We are not alone, and more importantly, we

666
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:57,720
are not in charge.

667
00:32:57,759 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: We are managed.

668
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,799
Speaker 2: We are completely managed.

669
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:01,759
Speaker 1: So here's the final question we want to leave you

670
00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:03,680
with today, and is a question I want you to

671
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:06,200
really sit with on your drive home or while you're

672
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:09,279
lying in bed tonight. If that timeline map was right,

673
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,519
if that mass subduction in Houston wasn't some shared hallucination

674
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,079
but an actual briefing, and we are racing right now

675
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:18,359
toward that twenty ninety two deadline. What happens then, right?

676
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,079
Speaker 2: Is it a graduation? Do we finally join the wider

677
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:27,000
galactic community. Do we get the keys to the cosmic.

678
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: Car or is it a harvest? Does the farmer finally

679
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,119
come out to clear the field?

680
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: Look at the sheer vertical acceleration of our technology right now,

681
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,720
the environmental chaos, the sudden, unprompted shift in government disclosure

682
00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:44,559
where they are finally openly admitting that UAPs are real

683
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,160
and in our airspace. It feels like something major is

684
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:48,720
ramping up.

685
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:51,279
Speaker 1: It feels exactly like the end of the semester. Everyone

686
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:53,200
is frantically cramming for the final or.

687
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: The end of the growing season, and the reapers are

688
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:57,880
quietly sharpening their sides.

689
00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:00,359
Speaker 1: We really want to know what you think. Are we

690
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,359
the equal partners in this grand cosmic dance or are

691
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:06,039
we just the crop? Are we being carefully prepared for

692
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,680
contact or for collection?

693
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,199
Speaker 2: It is a vital conversation we all need to start having.

694
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: Tell us your stance in the comments. We read every

695
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,199
single one of them.

696
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,679
Speaker 2: Until next time, keep your eyes on the skies.

697
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: I keep pulling the threads