Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
Speaker 1: off with Tyler Robinson and the prelim hearing Day number one,
Speaker 1: Chad Grunader. Officer Bagley, I'm now going to refer to
Speaker 1: you to your attention to State's exhibit number three that's
Speaker 1: going to come up on your monitor as well. Let
Speaker 1: me know when you see that answer, I see it.
Speaker 1: Question okay, and do you recognize that answer? I do? Question?
Speaker 1: And what is that? Answer? This is a drone picture
Speaker 1: of the campus more of the courtyard looking eastward. Question Okay,
Speaker 1: I've asked you about several buildings on the campus. I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask you about those same buildings whether they're
Speaker 1: depicted in this exhibit. Okay, do you see where the
Speaker 1: Hall of Flags is located? Answer? Yes, I do. It's
Speaker 1: down towards the bottom. It's a red brick pathway. It
Speaker 1: would be the Hall of Flags. Question Okay, what about
Speaker 1: the Fugal Building? Answer? The Fugal Building is going to
Speaker 1: be to the right of the picture. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a white roof building off to the right of
Speaker 1: the south courtyard. Question and the Woodbury Business Building, where's
Speaker 1: that at answer Woodbury is going to be another red
Speaker 1: path that's going to be just to the east of
Speaker 1: the Fugal building. It's got a gray roof and some
Speaker 1: red path on it. Question the Sowrenson Center. Answer, the
Speaker 1: Swordenson Center is going to be to the left of
Speaker 1: the picture. It's going to have a white roof different levels,
Speaker 1: and that would be the Swordensen Center. Question Okay, the
Speaker 1: low Ci Center. Where's that located in relationship to the
Speaker 1: Sorenson Center that you've described. Answer of the Sowrenson Center,
Speaker 1: it's going to be just directly east of the Swordenson Center.
Speaker 1: Towards the top of the picture, you can see the
Speaker 1: two different colors of gray, the gravel that's on the roof.
Speaker 1: Question and can you see the courtyard in this photograph?
Speaker 1: Answer yes, you can. Question Okay, is this picture of
Speaker 1: fairror and accurate depiction of this area of Utah Valley
Speaker 1: University's campus on September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer yes.
Speaker 1: Question State offers exhibit three. Your honor. Kathy Nester jumps
Speaker 1: in your honor, we renew are standing objection. We also
Speaker 1: object again that this individual can identify when the picture
Speaker 1: was made or how it was made or by whom,
Speaker 1: Judge Graph, mister Grunader, same response, Judge, and just for
Speaker 1: the record, I would also appoint the court the State
Speaker 1: versus Purcell, which is a Supreme Court case here in
Speaker 1: the state of Utah, nineteen eighty five, which essentially stands
Speaker 1: for the proposition that if a competent witness with personal
Speaker 1: knowledge of the facts represented in a photograph can testify
Speaker 1: that the photograph accurately represents those facts, the exhibits admissible.
Speaker 1: He also spoke about the date being September tenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. The showing that's required here. It's essentially a
Speaker 1: prime facy showing. We're not required to show proof beyond
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt, for example, that is what was accurate
Speaker 1: the day, or even a preponderance of the evidence. But
Speaker 1: will submit it on that, Judge. Judge Graph, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm just taking a brief glance at the case you cited, Grunander.
Speaker 1: I can give you the citation your honor answer by
Speaker 1: the judge. If you have that, I'd appreciate it. Grunander.
Speaker 1: It's seven eleven Pacific second to forty three, and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at page number two forty five. Judge Graph all right.
Speaker 1: The Court finds that the witness is familiar with the scene.
Speaker 1: He testified that it's a fair and accurate representation of
Speaker 1: what State's Exhibit three reports to be. And the Court
Speaker 1: finds that necessary foundation has been laid and overrules the objection.
Speaker 1: State Exhibit three is admitted and may be published. Grunander,
Speaker 1: State would move to publish State Exhibit three. Judge graph,
Speaker 1: all right, Grunander, May I approach the witness, your honor,
Speaker 1: the judge You may, Grunander, Officer, if you'd come down
Speaker 1: into the well of the court, I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: you a few questions about this Exhibit three as well. Witness, okay. Question,
Speaker 1: can you point out where the Hall of Flags is
Speaker 1: located and describe that for the record? Answer? The Hall
Speaker 1: of Flags is going to be down here on the
Speaker 1: bottom of the picture, going to have a red brick
Speaker 1: pathway with some flowers along the top of it. Question
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you were securing an area of that walkway.
Speaker 1: Answer yes. Question where were you stationed? Answer? I was
Speaker 1: down here by the end of the flower pots, which
Speaker 1: is down here on the south side, towards the Fugal
Speaker 1: building on the far right of the picture. Question okay,
Speaker 1: in relationship to where you were stationed. Where's the Fugal
Speaker 1: building then? Answer? The Fugal Building is just to the
Speaker 1: right of me, so it would be on the south
Speaker 1: end of me. Question okay, and so it's on the
Speaker 1: right side of the photograph there, answer, far right side
Speaker 1: of the photograph. Yes. Question what about the business building? Answer?
Speaker 1: The business building is just going to be in the
Speaker 1: middle of the picture on the far right. It's going
Speaker 1: to have some red brick pathways. It's going to be
Speaker 1: multi level, and that would be the Woodbury building. Question okay.
Speaker 1: The Sorensen Center, where is that located on the photograph? Answer?
Speaker 1: The Swordensen Center is going to be the middle to
Speaker 1: the far left of the picture. It's going to be
Speaker 1: the white roof on top of it. Multi level. Question okay.
Speaker 1: And the low Ci Center, where is that located? Answer?
Speaker 1: The low Ci Center is going to be towards the
Speaker 1: top of the picture, kind of off centered a little bit,
Speaker 1: but it's going to have the four or five floors
Speaker 1: that are sitting right there. Question okay, can you describe
Speaker 1: those stories what we're looking at? Where do you find one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: and possibly five? Question or answer? Excuse me? This is
Speaker 1: ground level where the courtyard is. As you go over
Speaker 1: towards the low C building inside, there's an elevator. That
Speaker 1: would be the ground one level. One level two would
Speaker 1: be the second one where these red ATVs are sitting
Speaker 1: on the grass right there in the middle of the picture.
Speaker 1: If you go up from that, that would be the
Speaker 1: third level. And the fourth level, which is the actual
Speaker 1: top level of the building, is a very top one
Speaker 1: with the windows that you can see. Question Okay, is
Speaker 1: there an atrium on the top of that? Answer there's
Speaker 1: an atrium. It's actually it's got a little sphere on
Speaker 1: top of it. It looks like a little square right
Speaker 1: on top of the Loci building. That would be the atrium.
Speaker 1: Question okay, Now you mentioned two shades of gray on
Speaker 1: the rooftop of the Loci building. Answer yes, question can
Speaker 1: you see it on this exhibit? Answer? I can where
Speaker 1: the atrium is a lighter gray gravel and on the
Speaker 1: west side because I'm looking east. On the west side,
Speaker 1: there's two ventilations for the Loci building, two events on
Speaker 1: top of that, it's in the darker gray gravel. Question
Speaker 1: you mentioned you're familiar with the rooftop of the Losi
Speaker 1: Center correct answer yes. Question when someone is standing on
Speaker 1: the Losi Center, can they see down into the courtyard?
Speaker 1: Answer yes they can. Question and where's the courtyard located
Speaker 1: from that rooftop? Question that's going to be in the
Speaker 1: center of the picture with the grass and the atrium
Speaker 1: style steps. Question would that be west of the low
Speaker 1: Ci Center then? Answer yes, it would be directly west
Speaker 1: of the Losi Center. Question Okay, Now, in a couple
Speaker 1: of other exhibits, we saw a tent that was down
Speaker 1: set up in the courtyard. Can you see that tent
Speaker 1: set up in the courtyard in this photograph? Answer you cannot.
Speaker 1: In this picture you can. It would be where I
Speaker 1: explained where the Hall of Flags is. It's directly underneath
Speaker 1: the Hall of Flags, just on the grass right there.
Speaker 1: Question okay, is there a clear line of sight between
Speaker 1: the tent and the top of the low Ci Center
Speaker 1: the rooftop? Answer yes, there is. Question okay, is some
Speaker 1: of it obstructed? Answer? Yes? Question obstructed by what? Answer
Speaker 1: the Sorenson building that's right here, this white roof, This
Speaker 1: kind of obstructs a little bit of the view of
Speaker 1: the courtyard. Question where would you have to be standing
Speaker 1: or perhaps lying down on the low CI center to
Speaker 1: see it into the courtyard where the tent was. Answer
Speaker 1: on the far side of the Loci building. You could
Speaker 1: have a line of sight towards the courtyard. Question that's
Speaker 1: the top roof. Answer the top roof. Yes, question with
Speaker 1: a darker shade of gray answer yes. Question okay, thank you, officer.
Speaker 1: I'm going to refer the witness to State's exhibit number
Speaker 1: thirty five, and officer bag when you see that, go
Speaker 1: ahead and let me know. Do you recognize what that is? Officer? Answer?
Speaker 1: I don't have it yet. Question we don't have this
Speaker 1: in electronic form. Speaker for we do, Grunander, we do? Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I'll refer you to the exhibit that's to your left
Speaker 1: and behind you. Do you see that? Answer? I do.
Speaker 1: Question it's marked as States Exhibit thirty five with a
Speaker 1: yellow sticker. Is that correct? Answer? Yes, I can see
Speaker 1: that on top left of the photo. Question. Well, for
Speaker 1: the record, if we can publish that on the witnesses screen.
Speaker 1: Judge Graff, thank you, mister Grunander. I was just going
Speaker 1: to mention that we shouldn't display it until it's been
Speaker 1: admitted in Grunander, do you see State's Exhibit thirty five
Speaker 1: on your monitor. Answer, yes, I do. Question okay, do
Speaker 1: you recognize that? Answer? Yes, I do. Question and what
Speaker 1: is it? Answer? This is an aerial view of the
Speaker 1: campus and the northeast area just north of the campus
Speaker 1: neighborhoods of the Utah Valley University in OREUM. Question okay,
Speaker 1: and how can you personally tell that this is a
Speaker 1: photograph to the campus and the neighborhood to the northeast
Speaker 1: of campus. Question? I can tell because I recognize all
Speaker 1: the buildings, the roads that are around it, the streets,
Speaker 1: the roundabouts, and the neighborhood to the north or towards
Speaker 1: the top of the picture. Also question, now, I've asked
Speaker 1: you about several buildings and landmarks on campus. Are you
Speaker 1: able to see the courtyard on this exhibit? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: you are. Question and just for the record, can you
Speaker 1: describe where that's located on the exhibit? Answer? Right in
Speaker 1: the center, towards the bottom, there's a white triangle roof
Speaker 1: that's white. That would be the Sorenson Building. It's the
Speaker 1: patch of grass that's just directly towards the bottom of
Speaker 1: that on the picture. It's centered, but more towards the
Speaker 1: bottom right in the middle. Question on this exhibit, are
Speaker 1: you able to see the Fugal building? Answer? Yes, i am.
Speaker 1: Question and in relationship to the courtyard, where's that located? Answer?
Speaker 1: That's going to be the south of the courtyard with
Speaker 1: the white roof. About the Woodbury Business Building? Answer? Woodbury
Speaker 1: Business Building is going to be to the east and
Speaker 1: it's going to have red brick path top. Question okay,
Speaker 1: and can you see the flags on this answer? Yes
Speaker 1: you can. Question and where is that located to the courtyard? Answer?
Speaker 1: It's strictly west of the courtyard. Question and the low
Speaker 1: Ci Center. Can you see the low Ci Center? Answer?
Speaker 1: You can see the low Ci Center. Question and where's
Speaker 1: that at answer It's going to be northeast of the
Speaker 1: courtyard with the two patches of gray that's almost in
Speaker 1: the center of the picture, just to the slight right
Speaker 1: of the center. Question Okay, I've asked previously about the
Speaker 1: LBS Institute building. Can you see that on this exhibit? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: you can. Question and where's that located in relationship to
Speaker 1: the low Ci Center? Answer it's directly north of the
Speaker 1: low Ci Center. It's got a white roof, and it's
Speaker 1: almost directly in the center of the photo. Question Okay,
Speaker 1: and we've talked about a parking structure that's nearby the
Speaker 1: institute building. Do you see that? Answer? Yes, it's just
Speaker 1: to the west or left side of the picture of
Speaker 1: the institute building. Question, Okay, is this a fair and
Speaker 1: accurate depiction of the Utah Valley University campus and the
Speaker 1: surrounding neighborhood to the north and east on September tenth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Answer yes. Question the state offers Exhibit
Speaker 1: thirty five. Kathy Nester, your honor, We renew our standing
Speaker 1: objection and object on the grounds that there's no indication
Speaker 1: on this photograph of when it was taken in terms
Speaker 1: of relation to the actual incident at issue here. Judge Grafs,
Speaker 1: thank you, Miss Nestor. Mister Grunander. Grunander Sam response, Judge,
Speaker 1: but I would just add one more case for the
Speaker 1: court's benefit. This is State versus Wager or Wager Wager.
Speaker 1: This is a Utah Court of Appeals case from twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: The citation is three seventy two Pacific third ninety one.
Speaker 1: And the significance of this case, Your honor at issue.
Speaker 1: There was a photograph of the defendant there who was
Speaker 1: smoking methamphetamine allegedly in this bathroom. The witness that was
Speaker 1: testifying that laying the foundation at trial was not present
Speaker 1: when the photograph was taken, could not tell the date
Speaker 1: on which it was taken, but he had been in
Speaker 1: the bathroom before, was familiar with the defendant's bathroom and
Speaker 1: familiar with the defendant. He testified to that personal knowledge,
Speaker 1: and the court found that was sufficient foundation. So that case,
Speaker 1: in addition to the other case, the personel case, and
Speaker 1: my previous arguments, and I'll submitted to the court, Miss
Speaker 1: nestor anything else you wish to add, Miss Nestor, no.
Speaker 1: Judge Graff, all right, Given the testimony of the witness
Speaker 1: who's testified, he's familiar with the location. He went in
Speaker 1: detail describing the various neighborhoods in location. He mentioned the
Speaker 1: roundabout and identified the buildings in State's Exhibit thirty five,
Speaker 1: and it was noted that it was a fair and
Speaker 1: accurate representation of this campus as of September tenth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. The Court is going to overrule the objection
Speaker 1: and State's Exhibit thirty five is admitted into evidence and
Speaker 1: may be published. All right, folks, we're going to wrap
Speaker 1: up right here, and in the next next episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box.