WEBVTT 1 00:00:14.519 --> 00:00:18.399 Welcome to the guys. I you podcast. I am your host, Trevor. 2 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:25.640 How is everybody doing out there? It's Monday morning? Is 3 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:30.760 there anything worse? Not on my Mondays? Mondays are fine. 4 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:32.880 But there was a time in my life and I'd 5 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:36.320 have to get up at you know, five am, to 6 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:41.719 get in my Chrysler Seabring and drive two and a 7 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:48.679 half hours to some office in San Diego. Or I'd 8 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:54.159 have to go fly to San Francisco to literally spend 9 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:59.200 my entire day figuring how to extract more dollars from 10 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:04.200 Medicare benefit sis. God, corporate healthcare. 11 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:07.200 What a mess. Hallelujah. 12 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:09.359 I'm not doing that anymore. I'm dealing with the new, 13 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.879 a brave, the brave new world of academia. Hanging in there, 14 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:16.959 hanging in there. I hope you guys are hanging in there. 15 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:22.599 And your jobs. I think every job has like some 16 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.640 interesting political insight. You know, I'd be curious what you 17 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:29.200 guys do. 18 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:31.040 Shoot me an. 19 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.599 Email, tell me the drama, tell me what's going on 20 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:35.879 at your work. I'm very curious what you all do, 21 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:38.480 you listeners. I suspect a lot of you probably drive 22 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:42.560 a lot, or maybe work somewhere where you can have 23 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.079 headphones in that that right there. Honestly, that's a blessing 24 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:48.359 if you work somewhere where you can have headphones in. 25 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:54.319 If you have my personality, some people don't like listening 26 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:59.400 to stuff. Some people need social interaction. Not me. The 27 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:03.760 cubicle is sort of often shown as the symbol of 28 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:08.319 like loneliness and despair, but I disagree. Man, stick me 29 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.080 in a cubicle. I got headphones. I've got a rectangle 30 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.800 in my pocket where I can listen to anything. 31 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.759 Oh my gosh. 32 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:21.319 Now, if I need to meet a certain productivity expectation, 33 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:23.599 that takes some of the fun out of it. But anyway, 34 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:25.240 I hope you guys are doing good. I've got kind 35 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.599 of a weird episode for you tonight or today. Maybe 36 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:32.560 weird is the wrong word, but I just I came 37 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:40.800 across something. It's an old, very old article on the 38 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:45.080 centurial as the eye of the cell. Now, this came 39 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:48.719 up in the conversation with Michael Weist. I feel like 40 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:53.319 I maybe vaguely heard this but forgot about it. It's 41 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.400 super old research. It's like forty year old research at 42 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.680 this point. But I found an article in a New 43 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.599 science tists that is let's see eight plus twenty six, 44 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:09.919 what is that? Thirty four years old? And I don't 45 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:11.680 know how much more work has been done with this, 46 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.840 if any. I mean, maybe there's just really not much 47 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:19.240 more we can do. But it's about how the centrial 48 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:21.680 might act as the eye of the cell, which I 49 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:25.560 find that fascinating given what the central is. So first 50 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.000 let's back up and explain it a little bit. So 51 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:33.240 within every cell, and I think it is literally every cell, 52 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.360 maybe not like a red blood cell or some cell 53 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.400 that will no longer divide, just so you know. You know, 54 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:43.680 red blood cells are essentially non living. You know, they're 55 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:48.919 just bags of hemoglobin. They were living at one point 56 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.680 they differentiated from something called a hematopoiitic stem cell. They 57 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:59.000 became a reticulo site. But eventually everything goes away. No nucleus, 58 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:07.680 no mitochondria, I don't believe, basically, nothing, just hemoglobin, and 59 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.159 they only because for that reason they die fairly quickly 60 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:14.120 in circulation and they're replaced. But with the exception of 61 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:21.959 cells like that, basically everything has what's called a centrisme, 62 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:25.759 and a centrisme exists at about the middle of the 63 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:30.720 cell by the nucleus. Generally and every cell has it, 64 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.160 and it's fascinating, like how important must this structure be 65 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:40.240 that all cells have it. It's highly evolutionary can conserve. 66 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:44.279 So it's not just human cells, it's all animal cells, 67 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:50.360 all plant cells, all protozoa, all bacteria, I believe, basically everything. 68 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:51.480 But viruses. 69 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:56.240 Has a centrisme, which is kind of interesting in the 70 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.519 context of like what is life? You know, viruses are 71 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.079 sort of considered like maybe they're alive, maybe they're not. 72 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:07.600 They sort of occupy this region between living and dead, 73 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.040 and the fact that they don't have a centrosome kind 74 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.160 of leads me to think, like maybe that is something. 75 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.399 There's something critical there anyway, So what do they do well? 76 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.720 A centrisome is made up of two structures called centrials, 77 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:25.639 and this is interesting because the structure of the centrial, 78 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.920 they're like two little barrels that always lie at right 79 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:33.920 angles to one another. You can just google, you know, 80 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:38.879 centrosome or centrioles. They are these two barrels that lie 81 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:42.399 at right angles to each other, and they're composed of 82 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:47.279 a triplet of triplets. This is a term that I'm 83 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:51.600 using on purpose because this is becoming like a popular 84 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:57.839 sort of like Tesla esque way of describing these patterns 85 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:00.680 we see in biology the brain way, all these things 86 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.920 are like triplets of triplets. There's a lot of numerology. 87 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.519 It's not really nume. I think numerology is ridiculous, and 88 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:13.319 anytime I see numerology, I get skeptical. But I'm trying 89 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.439 to be more open minded. So anyway, so you see 90 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.639 these triplets of a triplet and it is it's nine. 91 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:30.920 Hold on one second, it's nine. What's please just google 92 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:36.319 google centurial triplets or something. And there's these little tubulent 93 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.360 subunits and there's like three of them, and then there's 94 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.639 nine sets of three. So it's like a triplet of 95 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.879 a triplet triplet. And so it's this interesting little structure, 96 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:53.160 and you'll find that we like don't really know what 97 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:57.600 it does or why it's shaped that way. We know 98 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:03.040 that the microtubule sort of radiate out from the centrisome 99 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.839 so that has something important to do with the microtubules, 100 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:11.079 which we talk a lot about here. And another interesting 101 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.959 thing about the centrosome, which is this thing that has 102 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.680 two centrioles in it, is that it's like the first 103 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:23.759 thing to duplicate during cellular division. So you have this cell, 104 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:29.120 the DNA duplicates, and then before the nucleus dissolves so 105 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:33.439 that the chromosomes can be separated, you get a new centrosome. 106 00:07:34.920 --> 00:07:37.240 And the reason for this is an arbitrary The centrosome 107 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:45.279 basically like runs the process of mitosis. So you duplicate 108 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:48.680 the centrosome and then these microtubules grow out from it, 109 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:55.600 called kineticore microtubules, and they connect to this little structure 110 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:59.079 I believe it's what is it called the centro mirror. 111 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:04.079 There's this little protein structure that binds the sister chromatids together. 112 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.720 If you've ever seen a chromosome, most likely what you're 113 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:12.839 looking at is a double like a duplicated chromosome, it 114 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:16.079 will look like an X. And so these are actually 115 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.319 two identical copies of the same chromatid that are bound 116 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:25.040 together by this thing called a centromere, this protein complex. 117 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:27.600 And you you know, it's pretty important to keep the 118 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.279 DNA organized right because you want each new daughter cell 119 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:35.080 to have an exact copy of the genome. And so 120 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.200 each little X is two copies bound together and a 121 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:41.600 kineto coore from each chromosome. 122 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.799 Uh chromos o. My, this gets crazy. 123 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:50.240 A kinetic coore microtubule from each centrosome. You know, these 124 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.720 twin pair of centrioles on either side of the cell, 125 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:59.879 which just duplicated, you know, they just cloned themselves themselves, 126 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:05.120 going into mitosis, the division of the cell. They have 127 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:10.679 now grown these little kineticore microtubules and they connect, and 128 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:15.919 so each chromosome, the pair of little sister chromatids, the 129 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:20.000 centromere that binds them together, gets connected to buy a 130 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:25.039 kineticore microtubule, one from each chromosome. And if you google 131 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:29.320 google metaphase, for example, you can see that the centrosomes 132 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:34.840 are pulling on the centromere. And what happens is all 133 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.919 of the chromosomes align along the equator of the cell. 134 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.879 It's called I think it's called like the metaphase plate. 135 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:43.840 I forget. It's been a long time. I used to 136 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:45.840 teach this stuff. Why don't you want to take a 137 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:49.120 physiology class for me? Wouldn't it be fun? Those are 138 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.519 the good old days. I missed that I was making 139 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:56.759 good contract money on the side teaching physiology. Anyway, So 140 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:00.440 all these centromeres get lined up and they're pulling on 141 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:05.919 each other. Meanwhile, a new set of microtubules is growing 142 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:10.879 out of the centrosomes. But these microtubules don't connect to 143 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:16.759 the chromosomes. They connect to each other. So each centrosome 144 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:19.320 has grown microtubules out When they run into each other, 145 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.440 and rather than playing tug of war like the connecticore 146 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.600 microtubules are doing to the chromosomes, they push against each other. 147 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.919 And it's this process of pushing against each other that 148 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:35.480 starts to split the cell in half. The cell starts 149 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:40.279 to elongate, and so the centrisome is literally responsible not 150 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:46.039 only for dividing up the genome into two identical sets 151 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:51.919 of DNA, but also literally pushing the cell apart. And 152 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:54.360 then there's this thing called the cleavage furrow where the 153 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:57.360 you know, there's this little like spiderweb skeleton on the 154 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.000 interface of the membrane, and you get these motor proteins 155 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.080 that literally split the cell in half, and that's called cytokinesis. 156 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:08.679 And then you get two daughter cells, two identical daughter cells. 157 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.120 I think, what's fascinating about this? And this was always 158 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.759 you know, sitting in the science class as a kid, 159 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.360 It's like, okay, yeah, but what is regulating this? And 160 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.919 then of course, and you know, as a kid, you 161 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.480 just sort of believe that we have all the answers, 162 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.080 you know, and so you ask a question, and really 163 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.240 the only thing a teacher can do, and thus they're 164 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:38.679 just very confident in themselves, which many aren't. Is sort 165 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:43.000 of like dismiss the question to pretend like they answered 166 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:45.519 your question, or to dismiss the question or make you 167 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.159 feel dumb about the question, like there because there is 168 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.000 no answer to this, like like what is the force? 169 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.320 What is the instrument? What is the you know, what 170 00:11:55.440 --> 00:12:02.600 is the what is orchestrating this unbelievable complexity? Why is 171 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:04.679 this centrism? This thing that we don't even know what 172 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:06.639 it is. We can barely see it, it's so small. 173 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.759 Where is this knowledge coming from? On how to do this? 174 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.240 On how to align all the chromosomes, split them in half, 175 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.519 push the pulls of the cell apart, like you know, 176 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.519 every time we ask like a big why question, the 177 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.559 answer is like some some like source of complexity, like 178 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.960 like how is it that we experience consciousness and live 179 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.279 in this world and have free will and act as agents? 180 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:36.720 And you say, well, you have this unbelievably complex computer 181 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.080 in your head called a brain, And it's like, oh, okay, 182 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.799 that makes sense. You know, and it's like, how is 183 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.759 it that these cells are so like autonomous and know 184 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:48.159 what to do? And it's like, well, we have this 185 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.480 crazy thing called a nucleus in the center of your 186 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.000 cell and it's like a brain. Now, this is a 187 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:56.279 totally incorrect metaphor, but that's generally like what a like 188 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.720 a high school biology teacher might say, because there is 189 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:02.840 no better answer, and so there's always something to point 190 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:07.039 to you. With the centrisome, you're out of stuff because 191 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:13.960 there is no unfathomably complex computer system to point to 192 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:21.919 you as the conductor of this unbelievably complex mystery, which 193 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.200 is you know, the splitting of the cell in half, 194 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:27.200 and you can point to things like, oh, well, you 195 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:31.440 know this chemical cascade triggers the process of mitosystem. It's like, okay, yeah, 196 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.720 I'm not I'm not denying that there are like chemical 197 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:40.399 and physical systems at play, but like, what is orchestrating this? 198 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:44.960 You know, where does where does the where does this 199 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.519 does this knowledge or ability come from? It's really difficult 200 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.000 to believe because you look at the centrisome and it's 201 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:54.039 essentially nothing. 202 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:54.919 I mean, it's. 203 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:00.960 Nine triplets of tubulin and tubulin is this simple little 204 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.480 bead shaped molecule, Like so where where where is the 205 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.399 the fire? You know, as Stephen Hawking said, like what 206 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.240 puts the fire in the equations? Like where is the 207 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.639 fire that goes into these equations to make them real? 208 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:17.399 I think it's cool that Stephen Hawking said that because 209 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.639 it's like such, because he's such a you know, physicalist 210 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:25.320 or reductionist or whatever. But like that is like the mystery, 211 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.879 Like Okay, yeah, this is just a math equation. It 212 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.519 describes something, but like where does the fire come from? 213 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:37.120 Like where does the what's the source? And it's a 214 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.399 question you know, scientists generally don't like to contend with 215 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.679 because it sort of falls outside of the domain of science. 216 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.399 But it's it is a I think it's silly, Like 217 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.480 I see Sean Carroll and others, I can do this. 218 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:50.240 It's like to just dismiss that. It's like what, that's nothing? 219 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.159 What are you talking about? Don't ask stupid questions? 220 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:53.399 You know. 221 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.600 It's like, bro, that's that's not a stupid question. That's 222 00:14:57.679 --> 00:14:58.559 the question. 223 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:00.440 Anyway. 224 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:05.799 So as if that were not enough, this mystery the 225 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:10.799 centrosome and the two centrials that comprise it, and the 226 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:15.840 microtubules that radiate out from it. Apparently it does more 227 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:20.960 than just mitosis. You'll also find centrials anywhere you need 228 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.960 to move in a cell, like at the base of 229 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.279 acilium or a flagellum, which is interesting because why would 230 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.080 you need a centrial. You know, we have motor proteins, 231 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:37.639 we have actin, we have tubulin. Why do we need 232 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.159 a centrial at the base of each hair cell or 233 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.000 at the base of a flagellum. It's not structurally important. 234 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.840 I mean, people will try to like argue it is, 235 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.679 but it doesn't seem to be. So it's just interesting 236 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:55.600 because like moving with purpose, like moving in a way 237 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.159 to seek goals, because that's what a cillium is for, 238 00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.879 that's what a flagellum is for, Like oh hey, there's 239 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:04.600 over there, let me flap the tail and swim in 240 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.120 that direction away from danger towards nutrients. Like this is 241 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:13.960 a this is will. This is an expression of will. Now, 242 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:19.360 don't like misunderstand me. It's a very simple expression of 243 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.759 those things. But it is interesting that there is a 244 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.639 central involved, Like why does there always seem to be 245 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:30.320 a central involved when we get like some something that 246 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.600 almost seems conscious, like the orchestration of cellular division or 247 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:39.399 the implementation of movement. It's interesting because even like the 248 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:42.559 cone cells in your eyes, like are basically modified cilium 249 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:48.559 with centrials at their base. So centrils do something beyond well, 250 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:50.559 we don't even really have a good explanation for what 251 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.919 they do. But beyond whatever the most reductionist version is 252 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.879 of what a central does, they clearly do something else. 253 00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.240 Anyway. 254 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.639 So here's like a forty year old story I'm going 255 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.720 to read to you guys, and hopefully I cann't get 256 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.319 through this without falling over my words too much. As 257 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:14.680 I age, I really struggle with the reading, just like 258 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.640 long blocks of text on a bright laptop screen. 259 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.119 But here we go. 260 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.480 Warm blooded animals radiate heat is infrared light, so they 261 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.039 appear to glow and viewed with an infrared camera. Now, 262 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.720 a researcher in the US believes that mammalian cells have 263 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.680 an eye with which they may actually be able to 264 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:36.160 detect this glow. That was pretty fascinating because cells very simple, 265 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:42.920 and the ability to detect like, you know, I guess 266 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.680 what you might call like an end quote's visual stimulus. 267 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:47.799 It does sort of imply like a sense of agency 268 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.400 that we don't normally give to cells. Now, of course 269 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:54.240 it could all be reflexive, right. I'm not suggesting cells 270 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.039 are conscious necessarily, but it is just an interesting way 271 00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.960 of thinking of what a cell is. Last year, Gunter 272 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:05.440 Albrecht Buehler of the Northwestern University Medical School in Chicago 273 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.839 demonstrated that mouse cells growing in culture will stretch towards 274 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.559 sources of infrared light. He has shown that cells may 275 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.119 see nearby cells by detecting infra red light. Now, of course, 276 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.680 like the instinct, I would think if you have a 277 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:22.680 tendency to believe like everything is. 278 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:25.359 Sort of. 279 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:31.920 Lifeless or autonomous, you might say would be that like, okay, well, 280 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.039 infrared lights of physical property, and so there could sort 281 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.599 of be some thing that happens, you know, like maybe 282 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.720 it affects the electro chemical gradients, or maybe it affects, 283 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.599 you know, some process in the cell that causes them 284 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.799 to orient this way that has nothing to do with 285 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.400 like a quote unquote visual experience, and that that might 286 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.519 be true, but let me just keep itating to investigate 287 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.640 this remarkable heat seeking ability. Albrecht Bueler studied hamster cells, 288 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.759 which are elongated in shape. He places cells on one 289 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.920 side of a thin sheet of glass and watched them 290 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.720 grow more or less parallel to each other in a 291 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.640 single layer. He then put cells on the other side 292 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.599 of the glass, spread so that most of them did 293 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:17.960 not touch their neighbors. After seven hours, he found that 294 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.720 three quarters of the new cells had oriented themselves so 295 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:22.759 that they crossed the cells on the other side of 296 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.240 the glass at angles of more than forty five degrees. 297 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.920 So it's published in PNASS Proceedings of the National Academy 298 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:34.319 of Sciences. If the new cells had oriented themselves randomly, 299 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.319 only about half of them would be expected to lie 300 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.680 in this position, So they kind of are moving towards 301 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.359 a right angle orientation or at least more than forty 302 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:46.000 five degrees with their neighbors. So my understanding of that 303 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.039 is like the shadow of the cells on the other 304 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.839 side of the glass is like maybe sort of obstructing 305 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.519 the light source, so that the other cells on the 306 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.839 other side of the glass are like trying to move 307 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:04.279 to be perpendicular to those cells to increase or exposure 308 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.599 to the heat or the light. Maybe the cells behavior 309 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.000 mimics something which occurs naturally, and some tissues cells form 310 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.559 distinct layers, with the cells in each layer oriented perpendicularly 311 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.599 to those cells in the layers above and below. This 312 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:23.000 criss cross pattern gives the tissues extra strength. Albrecht Buehler 313 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:26.039 repeated this experiment, but this time with one side of 314 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.799 the glass coated with either nickel chromium alloy or silicon. 315 00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:33.400 Nickel chromium absorbs a visible and infrared light, where silicon 316 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.559 absorbs most visible light but is transparent to red and 317 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:41.440 infrared wavelengths. Now, this is pretty smart because he's basically 318 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.160 testing whether or not it is. 319 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:45.119 Light. 320 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.480 The results were striking. When the glass sheet was coated 321 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.279 with nickel chromium, cells did not grow in a criss 322 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:57.160 cross pattern, So when it's opaque, no criss cross it. However, 323 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.640 the pattern was not disrupted by the silicon coat. An reminder, 324 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:06.200 the silicon coat is transparent to red and infrared wavelengths. 325 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.640 Taken with Aubreac Bueller's earlier resort, this implies that the 326 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.519 cells need to detect infrared light in order to arrange 327 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:18.119 themselves in a criss cross pattern. The cells in the 328 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:21.400 original layer radiate infrared light, and they may also alter 329 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.880 the pattern of infrared light from other sources. Okay, so 330 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.559 what does this tell us? Well, it tells us that 331 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.960 the cells have a mechanism for sensing light. Now, of course, 332 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.119 it does not imply that they have like a subjective 333 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:37.960 experience of light. Right, Just like we talk about all 334 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.319 the time with the heart problem of consciousness, you can 335 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:46.880 imagine living beings, even humans, being able to detect sensory 336 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.960 stimulus without being consciously aware of them. You know, you 337 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.759 can imagine we would basically be autonomatons like zombies, where 338 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.680 we are not aware of things, but we are indiscernibly human, 339 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:01.200 you know, because we react. You know, we have this 340 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:05.480 data bank of word meanings in our mind and you know, 341 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.279 nonverbal cues like we can store all the data and 342 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:10.200 react accordingly. 343 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.000 You could. 344 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.920 You know, a zombie could come into your house is 345 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.759 call them an NPC, and you would talk to them 346 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.079 for hours and you'd have no way of knowing that 347 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.480 they're not having a conscious experience. This is really the 348 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.119 problem with consciousness is it's you can't test whether something 349 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.799 has it. There are signs, and we can make assumptions 350 00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:34.519 that you know, they're just like they're acting just like me, 351 00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.960 I have a conscious experience, Therefore they must. 352 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:38.799 This is sort of. 353 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.640 Where we're at, And so you could scale that way 354 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:44.880 down to a single cell and say just assume like, well, 355 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:46.839 of course they're not having a conscious experience, or it's 356 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:51.480 just an autonomaton, like Okay, it senses light and there's 357 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:54.680 some reflex, whether it's a chemical reflex or whatever. There's 358 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:58.680 no neurons in a cell that's leading them to behave 359 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:02.400 a certain way. This is a living organism. But really, 360 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:06.400 I mean this is you know, there's no awareness, right, 361 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.640 this is all reflexive and I kind of tend to 362 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.640 believe that, but it is an assumption. I mean, you 363 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.880 kind of have to admit it is an assumption, okay. 364 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.240 Albert Peler thinks it unlikely that the new cells have 365 00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:23.279 reacted simply to the heating effects of infrared light. He 366 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.680 calculates that the infrared light he's shown on mouse cells 367 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.839 increase your temperature by only point zero zero zero zero 368 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:33.160 one degree c. Also, he found that mal cells respond 369 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.119 most to wavelengths of eight hundred to nine hundred animeters. 370 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.599 Cells hardly reacted to wavelengths around twelve hundred animeters, even 371 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:45.480 though water and cells absorb these wavelengths efficiently. I think 372 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:47.960 the implication there is that these other wavelengths may be 373 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.079 heat the tissue just as much. I'm not really sure that. 374 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:57.640 I don't know much about the electromagnetic spectrum, So how 375 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.640 then can cells detect infrared light? This is Bueler talking. 376 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:04.039 The eye of the cell, I think is the pair 377 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.599 of centrials. Centrials are organelles which look like short, fat cylinders. 378 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:12.559 No one knows their function. I love that. I love 379 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:16.839 that in science, and I love just saying it with courage. 380 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.799 You know, no one knows what they do. 381 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:22.440 Period. 382 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:24.759 Then some jerk who wants to look smart has to 383 00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:27.119 come along and say, well, actually, we do know that 384 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:31.960 the tubulentce subunits grow out from the centrioles, and this 385 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.480 gives rise to a sider skeleton, which gives a cell 386 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.279 structure and support. And it's like, dude, shut up, that's 387 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.799 not what we mean. That's not what we mean when 388 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.279 we say no one knows what they do. God, people 389 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.119 are so annoying. It's like it's you got to explain it. 390 00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.799 You can't just describe. I mean, listen, describe your observations, 391 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:55.720 but don't imply that this is an explanation. Like it's 392 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.000 so frustrating, Like okay, yeah, we get that they happen 393 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:03.119 to be located at a point where all the microtubules converge, 394 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.680 but that that doesn't have anything to do with their structure, 395 00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.559 Like you need to explain how their structure equals their function. 396 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:12.200 You know, why are they nine pairs of three oriented 397 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.559 at a right angle that don't actually make contact with 398 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:17.839 the microtubules are just floating? Why you know you got 399 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:21.519 to explain that. Well, you know, you get the cellamones 400 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.960 of skeleton and these are therefore It's like, dude, shut up, 401 00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.799