Speaker 1: I'm John Glover. I was Lionel Luthor on a Smallville
Speaker 1: and I will always always hold on to Smallville, and
Speaker 1: I hope you all do too.
Speaker 2: Welcome to always hold on to Smallville. In this podcast,
Speaker 2: we talk about each in every episode of the Young
Speaker 2: Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
Speaker 2: twenty eleven on the WB and the CW. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Zach Moore, and I'm joined by a very old Lionel Luther.
Speaker 2: He's back from Earth too, Matthew Roca. What's up? Roca?
Speaker 2: Looks like I'm back in the nick of time exactly?
Speaker 2: Is that not the greatest fourth wall breaking of all time? Right?
Speaker 3: Rewatching that, I was like, oh wow, man, this is
Speaker 3: some Shakespeare, This is some Richard the Third. John Glover
Speaker 3: must have been having a blast doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny to say that. So we're talking about
Speaker 2: Luther obviously, and who else could I have but you
Speaker 2: on this episode? And uh O, great to have you
Speaker 2: back on the show. And so I recently went to
Speaker 2: the Lutha Smallville Convention, the first annual Smallville Convention, and
Speaker 2: how Sean Glover was there and everybody had panels and
Speaker 2: he had panel and he was talking about someone asked
Speaker 2: him about coming back, you know, for season ten. He's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, all the good writers had left by then,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't quite as interesting. But if you know
Speaker 2: John Glover in real life is this is a sweet
Speaker 2: old man.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I mean he's eighty years old, God bless him, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: and he's on he's on Instagram and he's eighty years
Speaker 2: old and I have him on Instagram and it's like
Speaker 2: what but he is just he just tells it how
Speaker 2: it is, you know, his thought like that's the unfilteredness
Speaker 2: is so adorable as well, and he's like, oh, well
Speaker 2: you know why probably you know, so he felt about
Speaker 2: saying that, but that was that was how he felt
Speaker 2: about it because and I do understand where he's coming
Speaker 2: to think about it from an actress, because he was
Speaker 2: talking about the evolution of Lionel and in season one,
Speaker 2: because look, this is the big Lionel Luther return episode, right,
Speaker 2: That's that's what We'll just jump off with that, which
Speaker 2: is which is why I'm so think about it. He
Speaker 2: was talking about well, in season one he was kind
Speaker 2: of like a one note tough dad. But then as
Speaker 2: we went on I became a regular and they kind
Speaker 2: of peel back the layers of you know why you know,
Speaker 2: Lex and Lionel felt the way he did about each other.
Speaker 2: And then you know, obviously, you know, writing wise, they
Speaker 2: were kind of all over the place around four and five,
Speaker 2: they were kind of like, I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: good or bad whatever. But when they settled in, like
Speaker 2: you know, the first you know, three years in line,
Speaker 2: on the last couple of years they had a kind
Speaker 2: of a clear vision. And then of course he died,
Speaker 2: and then you know, they brought him back, and he
Speaker 2: probably he felt like from an acting standpoint, it was
Speaker 2: more kind of a reset to what he was doing
Speaker 2: before all this nuance, which is true, total, totally valid. Well,
Speaker 2: that doesn't make it any less enjoyable. And then knowing
Speaker 2: that he thought it was like whatever, but but then
Speaker 2: him to still bring his eight plus game was is amazing. Right.
Speaker 3: I love that I've heard him say the same thing
Speaker 3: about just like even Lionel at his most evil in
Speaker 3: regular Earth one Linel like that he's so nuanced, and
Speaker 3: he felt like Earth two Linel was just like one
Speaker 3: dimensional mustache swirler, evil kind of thing, and it's like
Speaker 3: I feel the same way as you. It doesn't make
Speaker 3: it any less enjoyable, and in fact, I think kind
Speaker 3: of like his more one note evil as this Linel.
Speaker 3: It's what we need in the final season if we're
Speaker 3: gonna if we're gonna do alternate Linel, just make him
Speaker 3: completely cartoonishly evil and even still even still John Glover
Speaker 3: brings that Shakespearean nuance to it.
Speaker 2: He manages to do that, you know, like he is
Speaker 2: the best actor on this show. Yeah, start to finish.
Speaker 2: She's the best main cast. Remember, he's the best guest star.
Speaker 2: He's totally like he's in a league of his own.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's incredible, right, and so he's such a resource,
Speaker 2: and so to have him back just just I mean
Speaker 2: I was because you know, when you watch his back
Speaker 2: in the day in season ten, it had been three
Speaker 2: years since you've seen him. Oh yeah, and you're you're
Speaker 2: so caught up in the excitement of Lionel being back.
Speaker 2: You're so fascinated by, Oh, how's Lex gonna play into
Speaker 2: this because you don't know yet because the season is
Speaker 2: still going on, right, And I'm like, all right, did
Speaker 2: I love it so much? Then? Because it was so exciting,
Speaker 2: Like but no revisiting it now for this No, it's
Speaker 2: so great. I'm so happy to report it wasn't just
Speaker 2: the hype.
Speaker 3: That's totally how I felt too. Rewatching it, I was like, man,
Speaker 3: this is just so much fun, Like it's like this
Speaker 3: is this is it's so it's so fun, and it was.
Speaker 3: It was like the whole the whole thing just felt
Speaker 3: like it was nostalgic in the best possible way. Where
Speaker 3: it was it was nostalgic for the Luthers, reminding us
Speaker 3: of the the like sort of golden era, if you will,
Speaker 3: of the show. And at the same time, it was
Speaker 3: progressing the plot forward in a really different way too,
Speaker 3: because it's like, you wouldn't get alternate universe and all
Speaker 3: that weird stuff in seasons one to three, you know, Like.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, it's it's interesting that it took him
Speaker 2: this long to do this. Yeah, I mean this is
Speaker 2: the last season. Like, well, I guess we'll do like
Speaker 2: a barrel universe like that, because that's like sci fi
Speaker 2: one on one, like parrel universes. Right, And but you're right,
Speaker 2: it would not have fit in any other era of
Speaker 2: the show, but but this one and we'll we'll talk
Speaker 2: about that as we do. But yeah, you were there
Speaker 2: back in the day watching this live. Did you go
Speaker 2: look up like episode titles before they came out, like
Speaker 2: howevern around crypton site. I don't know if you if
Speaker 2: you did this or not. You know, you're of course.
Speaker 2: So so the title Luther comes up, I'm like, right,
Speaker 2: oh my god, we're like, blows our minds. We probably think, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the big Lex return episode. That's what you think.
Speaker 2: That's what you think. You're like, it's so it's so
Speaker 2: interesting that I mean, we're pretty much almost halfway through
Speaker 2: season ten. They've been really like there's been a lot
Speaker 2: of Lexes around clones and kids and you know, other
Speaker 2: actors who'd played him over the years who'd come back
Speaker 2: and it's fantastic stuff and they'll continue to do so.
Speaker 2: But there's no Michael Rose. Bomb there's They're very It's
Speaker 2: so interesting that even like even in Homecoming, you see
Speaker 2: stock footage of Wana, Kristen Kurk, Chloe Allison Max, we
Speaker 2: see John Schneider, John Glover and that O'Toole in the
Speaker 2: clips from Reckoning, No Lex, no Michael Rose, and they're like, uh,
Speaker 2: and I I understand the type world. They're walking because
Speaker 2: they don't. They don't they don't want to remind you
Speaker 2: of him just in case he never comes back, Right,
Speaker 2: I was gonna.
Speaker 3: Say, like, Okay, I was going to ask you if
Speaker 3: you knew if there was anything else contractually or something
Speaker 3: or whatever, because it does seem weird that like, like, yes,
Speaker 3: it's true about like okay, what if he doesn't come back?
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I feel like they had
Speaker 3: to have almost had some degree of like, well, he
Speaker 3: is going to come back, because otherwise you're really pushing
Speaker 3: Luthor's storylines so much and if he didn't come back,
Speaker 3: it would have been really disappointing.
Speaker 2: We we were this close, I know, we were this
Speaker 2: close to not having Now that's what's like if if
Speaker 2: Lazarus the first episode, like yeah, there was talk and
Speaker 2: as Craig Burnam krypton Site has communicated to us and
Speaker 2: to me, they were like, oh, yeah, well Michael's going
Speaker 2: to come back for this, like that was the episode
Speaker 2: was written with that in mind, which makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, because it gives you that a little bit.
Speaker 2: Alex at the beginning completely chases out all these fillers
Speaker 2: in between, and then yeah, he would return at the end.
Speaker 2: I don't know how far that went as far as
Speaker 2: talk or negotiation or I don't even I don't even know, right,
Speaker 2: but we all know how Michael felt about it, and
Speaker 2: and all krettd he came back in the end, and
Speaker 2: he he did what he needed to do to close
Speaker 2: the circle. Thank god, totally. But there's no debating the
Speaker 2: fact if he was around and more available in season ten,
Speaker 2: it would have been a much stronger season. I'm just
Speaker 2: no debating that because they're they're just trying to patchwork
Speaker 2: all this stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean imagine just you saying that kind of
Speaker 3: gives me chills imagining. And by the way, I love
Speaker 3: the actor who played last year. Yeah, yeah, the one
Speaker 3: from Cyborg and it's you know, he's great and did
Speaker 3: a really good job as creepy old Lex like.
Speaker 2: Twenty years older. It's so funny rewatching it, I was
Speaker 2: like twenty like should we have said like fifty years old?
Speaker 2: Because I know I was thinking that.
Speaker 3: Too, because I like when we're I mean, when we're younger,
Speaker 3: like twenty years older seems so much more, you know,
Speaker 3: probably when we were younger, like watching the show, like oh,
Speaker 3: twenty years old. But yeah, it's like when you rewatch,
Speaker 3: it's like my ex girlfriend is twenty two years older
Speaker 3: than me.
Speaker 2: She doesn't look that like that. Well, you see Michael
Speaker 2: Rosebam today and like that's him now, Like it's doesn't
Speaker 2: look like a different person. Dude, he's like fifty now
Speaker 2: and he looks so young. He looks great. But I
Speaker 2: just saw an interview with him too.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say.
Speaker 3: The thing that gave me chills was picturing him though,
Speaker 3: delivering those lines in Lazarus, Like picturing Michael Rosenbaum doing the.
Speaker 2: Weard on your chest, the scarlet letter and all that happening.
Speaker 3: No, but it's like I just saw an interview with him.
Speaker 3: You probably saw it too, where he was talking about
Speaker 3: I guess the politics of the money and the things
Speaker 3: of the show like for him, and and how he
Speaker 3: likes to talk.
Speaker 2: To about that a lot, doesn't. Yeah, he does.
Speaker 3: He was he said, I guess that what was his name,
Speaker 3: I think something rot. I forget what his first name.
Speaker 2: Was, Yes, Peter.
Speaker 3: I think it was. I think he was talking about him. Uh,
Speaker 3: and he he really just played. He was like saying
Speaker 3: he didn't like the guy and blah, blah blah. And
Speaker 3: he never talked to him. I mean, the guy never
Speaker 3: talked to him, like during almost the whole show. And
Speaker 3: then he towards you know, the end of season seven,
Speaker 3: like when his contract he stayed longer than his contract
Speaker 3: was supposed to be, and then he's like, mister Roth wants.
Speaker 2: To have dinner with you.
Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, he never has talked to me
Speaker 3: this whole time. And he goes ahead and he's like
Speaker 3: you gotta stay, you gotta stay, Michael, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And Michael's like, you know, if you give me an offer,
Speaker 3: you know, I probably won't do it still because artistically
Speaker 3: I want to do other things, but like I'll think
Speaker 3: about it, you know kind of thing. And then the
Speaker 3: offer they gave him was the exact same thing they
Speaker 3: were paying him before, and that was what the final
Speaker 3: nail in the coffin for him, where he was just like,
Speaker 3: even if they tried to make me another offer, now,
Speaker 3: it's like too late. That's a slap in the face
Speaker 3: kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, and I think, you know, and as you
Speaker 2: get older, right, you understand why people make the decisions
Speaker 2: they make, right, I mean, especially working in the industry
Speaker 2: and very as storms as we have and do. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I never want to work with that person. Get done
Speaker 2: and all right, Like I will never work on a
Speaker 2: project with this person. I totally understand that. Or conversely, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this guy's on it. Whatever it is, I'm there right.
Speaker 2: So like you you want to work with the same people,
Speaker 2: or you don't want to work with the same people,
Speaker 2: or you you need space, you need distance. So like
Speaker 2: it's it's fun for us to sit here and talk
Speaker 2: and laugh and speculate about him coming back and not
Speaker 2: going back to the bored Thing is he came back
Speaker 2: for the series finale. THINGK got. His legacy is preserved
Speaker 2: because of that. Had he not come back for the
Speaker 2: series finale, then how dare you do Talkville service? I
Speaker 2: mean seriously, seriously seriously that that was he really meant
Speaker 2: it too. I can tell that, like, you know, just
Speaker 2: hearing Talkville and like listening to that his podcast and stuff,
Speaker 2: like he really meant it back in twenty eleven when
Speaker 2: he said like he came back for the fans, I
Speaker 2: feel like he really and and for how much you
Speaker 2: really love the character? You know, probably for a good
Speaker 2: chunk change, but no really, he said that at the time.
Speaker 2: I do believe, like, look, I did it for the
Speaker 2: fans because he is a fan of things. He might
Speaker 2: not be a fan of small vill his talk fill,
Speaker 2: but he is a fan of you know, genre movies
Speaker 2: and all this stuff, so he understands fandom. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 2: that was big for him to come back for that.
Speaker 2: So season ten is in the shadow of Lex and
Speaker 2: micro Rosemon. That's what we're really And.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine like the I think the one big
Speaker 3: miss opportunity, and it was probably a scheduling thing or
Speaker 3: timing or whatever, but like if they you know, they
Speaker 3: brought Michael back, right, and they managed to pull that off,
Speaker 3: and then they also had Glover back, and if they
Speaker 3: had a scene together in the finale too, that would
Speaker 3: have been so epic, like.
Speaker 2: It would have I don't know what it would have been,
Speaker 2: but just to see the two of them together, Lex
Speaker 2: kills him again. Now, well yeah, see, I mean that's
Speaker 2: the thing. What do you what do you even do
Speaker 2: at that point? Right? So I kind of that is
Speaker 2: the greatest missed opportunity of those two. I mean there's
Speaker 2: a lot of missed opportunities serious finale, So I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna say that, but it isn't we all wanted that again,
Speaker 2: but but we we love what we had with them
Speaker 2: for years. I mean, they had some of the best
Speaker 2: scenes on the show for years. And even though Clover
Speaker 2: comes back here without Rosenbomb, it doesn't you don't. This
Speaker 2: episode does a good job of positioning like, look, Lex
Speaker 2: is not here, well, there's certainly no getting him back. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really funny met like that's
Speaker 2: a metallion. We can't tell that. But hey, we're we're
Speaker 2: here in season ten, and look, man, I gotta be honest,
Speaker 2: like season ten, it's been kind of rough to start off.
Speaker 2: I mean there's there's some good. I mean, there's homecomings, great,
Speaker 2: las Rus is very enjoyable. Yeah, you know, I like
Speaker 2: Harvest more than most people probably really the Lex, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I have really fallen in love with this text.
Speaker 2: I've really fallen in love with this Test and Lex
Speaker 2: subplot going on, Like originally yea, her raising little Lex
Speaker 2: and then all the weird dynamics there and now now
Speaker 2: she is a Luther, right, So I love that is
Speaker 2: what I'm clutching onto in season ten because I don't
Speaker 2: the suicide squad is lame and death stroke is the
Speaker 2: worst death stroke. I kind of forgot about some of
Speaker 2: that stuff. Like when you think of season ten, what
Speaker 2: do you think of Broka?
Speaker 3: When I think of season ten, I kind of glamorize
Speaker 3: it a little in my head, Like I think of
Speaker 3: all the cool stuff we've been talking I think about
Speaker 3: all the Luther stuff. I think about Clark becoming Superman,
Speaker 3: like the returns, like the return of Jonathan, the return
Speaker 3: of Martha, like you know, all of that, the nostalgia
Speaker 3: him and Lois, like their relationship really blossoming into the
Speaker 3: iconic relation. Like that's all the stuff I think about.
Speaker 3: I kind of like, uh, choose to forget about the other?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean the episodes I've rewatched over the
Speaker 2: years are I mean the ones I'm talking about like Homecoming,
Speaker 2: Luther can't down the Road, like like the Earth two
Speaker 2: stuff just a plug and that gives us, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: iin ol back and so there's so much of that.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'm just really glad for this episode
Speaker 2: to show up finally, because I was waiting to really
Speaker 2: love an episode again because it's like I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been I might you know, guys, listen back, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, I have a good time I'm talking about
Speaker 2: these episodes, but like, oh, man, like I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been rewriting like every episode that as I covered it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Oh, wouldn't it be better if we did this?
Speaker 2: Like that's strange because season everybody knows I love Season
Speaker 2: nine so much. Season nine had a clear vision and arc,
Speaker 2: and seasons well, I mean, we're people are coming back
Speaker 2: and we'll do that, and then he's gonna be Superman
Speaker 2: at the end, and here's some stuff. But it's just
Speaker 2: it's just kind of it's it's very it's not cohesive
Speaker 2: in the way that Season nine it's.
Speaker 3: Like season It's it's like season like like I feel
Speaker 3: like the same way. I feel kind of like Season
Speaker 3: nine is like Season three in the sense that they
Speaker 3: have a very cohesive arc. There's kind of a strong
Speaker 3: continuity between episode to episode and callback and you know,
Speaker 3: like it's all very well thought out and you can
Speaker 3: really see that on the screen. And I and like,
Speaker 3: because of all the stuff we've talked about, like all
Speaker 3: the fun stuff in season ten, it's still like like
Speaker 3: one of my favorites more than Season nine. But I
Speaker 3: feel like season nine is a much stronger objectively seasoned
Speaker 3: because there's a clear A B, two C plot and everything.
Speaker 3: And but that being said, just like all the gold
Speaker 3: Nuggets and ten kind of spread out or awesome, you know.
Speaker 2: I guess my new my new conversation is like, which
Speaker 2: is better season ten or season eight? I think that'll be.
Speaker 3: My Oh my gosh, that's a good one. That's really
Speaker 3: interesting because eight started so strong and.
Speaker 2: Then it went this season eight A is so good,
Speaker 2: but a B is this by even though it's a
Speaker 2: couple of great steps. I mean, uh, Lesion is great,
Speaker 2: Hex is great, right yeah, oh yeah, totally that's it,
Speaker 2: and H in the second half of season. So I
Speaker 2: don't know, like that's well, those are the fun conversations
Speaker 2: to have down the road. But but here we are
Speaker 2: in season ten. We're working to our Superman and John
Speaker 2: Glover is back Luther, the titular Luther, the titular Luther there,
Speaker 2: And I do wonder how they if they planned out
Speaker 2: like we're gonna have one focus on Lionel and that's
Speaker 2: gonna be loose. I'm gonna have one focus on Jonathan.
Speaker 2: They'll be kid. I don't know if they planned it
Speaker 2: out because knowing this show, they probably didn't. But the
Speaker 2: fact that worked out so well though, because you know what,
Speaker 2: so and obviously Ken is a different episode and we'll
Speaker 2: talk about it then, but these are two of my
Speaker 2: favorite episodes of the season. Lionel is in this one.
Speaker 2: He's not in the next one. They're they're looking around
Speaker 2: for him, like like Clark, Luther and Test. Oh, there
Speaker 2: he is, and they're like, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but he's not it. You don't realize that he's not
Speaker 2: in it, you know. Yeah, anyway, but hey, we're here
Speaker 2: to talk about Luther. Let's get into it. Luther. I
Speaker 2: hook up this morning.
Speaker 4: Everything is different.
Speaker 2: It's darker. Did you stay away from you? Clark?
Speaker 4: He'm so afraid of me. It's like a parallel reality.
Speaker 2: I am your father.
Speaker 1: I alone raised joke in my own image.
Speaker 2: Clark Wilther Smallville All New episode Friday, de Summer third
Speaker 2: and eight, seventh Central on the CW Luther. It's the
Speaker 2: tenth episode of Smallville's tenth season. It aired on December third,
Speaker 2: twenty ten. Was written by Ryan Q. Miller and directed
Speaker 2: by Kelly Sounders. Now Kelly Sounders, she's been writing for
Speaker 2: the show with her writing partner Brian Peterson for years
Speaker 2: since season two, and she's one of the executive producers
Speaker 2: now of the show. Right, I love this is the
Speaker 2: only episode she directed. This is the only one. This
Speaker 2: is actually her only director credit in anything. WHOA, that's
Speaker 2: that's wild because she did knocked it out man, because like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the visual and we'll talk about it, but the visual
Speaker 2: differences between We're gonna call it Worth two because Earth
Speaker 2: too low was lane they throw that out there. I know,
Speaker 2: the all the comic fans get so mad because it's like, well,
Speaker 2: Ultraman's Earth three and I'm like, yes, yes, the flash
Speaker 2: shit the same thing with like like evil Zoom flash
Speaker 2: or some Earth two and all that stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 2: so this would be Earth one sixty eight, right, if
Speaker 2: some almost one sixty seven, if you really want to
Speaker 2: get down to it, we're gonna call it Earth two.
Speaker 2: But insider baseball, that's the definitely way too deep into it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, there's the visual distinction between. You know,
Speaker 2: there's all these warm colors and bright and it's all
Speaker 2: very locked off and smooth shots, and then you go
Speaker 2: to Earth too and it's all handhaild and you know,
Speaker 2: uh shaky and like gray, you know, so.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, very muted color palette. Very It almost feels
Speaker 3: like we're going from like classic Metropolis in Earth one
Speaker 3: to like got them Yeah, oh us, you know, like
Speaker 3: it's just it's it's really you didn't.
Speaker 2: Need to have some like Earth two super at the
Speaker 2: bottom that showed you you show, don't tell it's a
Speaker 2: visual media, you get it. Yeah, it's not a different space.
Speaker 2: But but but you know, she did.
Speaker 3: It's interesting that Kelly like the first time director credit thing,
Speaker 3: because there must be something about the Luthers that just
Speaker 3: bring out the artistic brilliance and first time directors because
Speaker 3: Miles Miller back with memorial.
Speaker 2: Right, Lionel may bring out the worst in people, but
Speaker 2: the Luthers bring out the vest in the directing of
Speaker 2: the show. But but ratings watch Okay, So the last episode, Patriot,
Speaker 2: it aired a couple of weeks before. There was a
Speaker 2: break before, you know, for Thanksgiving. And that's that's also
Speaker 2: interesting because Smallville usually only had maybe one episode in December, right,
Speaker 2: but no, there's two. This is not the mid season finale.
Speaker 2: I mean it should have been, but it would have
Speaker 2: been such a stronger inding. But then you know Icarus
Speaker 2: is next week, so they have two December episodes. That's right,
Speaker 2: but this episode December third. The previous episode on November nineteenth,
Speaker 2: Patriot got two point six million viewers, and Lazarus, the
Speaker 2: season premiere, got two point nine to eight million viewers.
Speaker 2: So with those stats in mind, what do you think
Speaker 2: Luther got? Ooh, that's a good one. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: with two point seven five. All right, two point seven
Speaker 2: to six. You might be like, this might be the
Speaker 2: closest guess of anyone in the ratings. Watch well done, sir. Wow, Wow,
Speaker 2: Nyl brings people back, all right? People are like, come
Speaker 2: back in see John Glover even after Thanksgiving. That's what
Speaker 2: I was thinking.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's like people like even casual fans who
Speaker 3: haven't been watching as much, they probably see like a
Speaker 3: preview and they're like, oh, Linyl's back, what like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I want to check that out's yeah, Like you know,
Speaker 3: So the episode starts out and all right, let's just
Speaker 3: let's just let's just rip this fan ad off.
Speaker 2: What what what the is going on with the Verrettas
Speaker 2: window because the the episode starts out with the with
Speaker 2: the loot with the season one through six stained Glass
Speaker 2: Window of the l Witch, which had previously reappeared at
Speaker 2: the end of Abandon when Test finds out she's a Luther.
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of like the reverse shot of that.
Speaker 2: That's what's so interesting that there's like, yeah, there shouldn't
Speaker 2: have been an episode in between these two, like Patriot,
Speaker 2: Can we have done that earlier or later? Because yes,
Speaker 2: because Abandon ends with this shot of Tesse looking out
Speaker 2: the window and we pan up and we see the
Speaker 2: Luther l because she's a Luther. Now I get it, right,
Speaker 2: I get it. And then this episode starts out we
Speaker 2: started the stained glass window, we go back down into
Speaker 2: the window. But dude, you've been here. You know, like,
Speaker 2: first of all, that l is in the wrong spot,
Speaker 2: and it's not it doesn't look like us anymore. It's dude,
Speaker 2: of all things, the continuity, you know, all things continuity
Speaker 2: wise in this show, there's something about the damn window
Speaker 2: that is just like so seemingly hard for them to
Speaker 2: get right, and yet it should be the simplest well,
Speaker 2: and it's you know what's even worse, it's not like
Speaker 2: they're changing it back and forth, right, It's like, look,
Speaker 2: they changed it. Yeah, I think I think it might
Speaker 2: have been Traveler. You and I were on that episode.
Speaker 2: I think him in the first time they changed the wind,
Speaker 2: which is ridiculous because like they should have known in
Speaker 2: season Like I would have been way chiller about this
Speaker 2: if between season six and seven they switched that out
Speaker 2: and didn't talk about it, like, oh, look here it is.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, it's like it's been more of a clue,
Speaker 2: but instead it's like, literally, it's been here this whole time,
Speaker 2: right under my note. And then they keep and this
Speaker 2: is before they got the veritas up. They keep moving
Speaker 2: the l down right, because if you're like in Tempest,
Speaker 2: for I throw out Tempest the season one finale, cause
Speaker 2: you see the tornado come and the window break and
Speaker 2: Line and Lextra in their office, Ell is way up there.
Speaker 2: It's way up there. But then they they kind of
Speaker 2: move it down lower. It's kind of behind Lex's desk, right,
Speaker 2: follow me, right, So it's already like it's already already moved.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, look, they fixed the window, they moved it, fine, whatever,
Speaker 2: But I know you guys are why are you so
Speaker 2: fixated on this? Well, let me tell you, because because
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, they changed it back for season ten.
Speaker 2: That's that is so annoying, but whatever, it's right. But
Speaker 2: but broka, they didn't change it back because we we
Speaker 2: panned down from this l at the very top and
Speaker 2: we go through the glass with a Veritas sign is
Speaker 2: gone from the exterior. Yep, but there are all the
Speaker 2: scenes in Luthor Library here it's back, and it's back
Speaker 2: as the Luthor Veritas window, and it's unacceptable. I am
Speaker 2: so angry about this, Roca. I don't I.
Speaker 3: Don't even understand, like the like with with the other one,
Speaker 3: with the you know, the first appearance of it, at
Speaker 3: least it's like, Okay, this is what they're trying to do,
Speaker 3: even though it's like really goofy right, like they're trying
Speaker 3: to pretend like it's always been there, which is so silly.
Speaker 3: But I don't even get what they're trying to do
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 2: It's it's all the other earth too when we get there. Anyway,
Speaker 2: this is my this is my favorite thing of this
Speaker 2: show to just rant about.
Speaker 3: Yes, if they were gonna do this whole v thing
Speaker 3: in general, it's it's an idea that just came to me.
Speaker 3: It's they had to do it, which is so silly anyway, Like,
Speaker 3: but if they had to do it, you know what
Speaker 3: they could have done probably they could have probably had
Speaker 3: like lex like in season seven, you know, like looking
Speaker 3: at the l and being you know, to emphasize more
Speaker 3: of like the genius that he is kind of thing
Speaker 3: that could really have him like study it with a
Speaker 3: magnifying glass or something like he sees he sees a
Speaker 3: glint of something that is like wait, and it's like
Speaker 3: and it's like yeah, and it's like really like baked
Speaker 3: into it or something.
Speaker 2: Instead of like a L slash V. Because I know,
Speaker 2: we're like we're like half an hour in we're talking
Speaker 2: about the first shot. We have to though, because because
Speaker 2: Test sits down and it's right behind her head, it's
Speaker 2: the I just this is unacceptable. But anyway, Test is
Speaker 2: at her desk and h who is simply credited as
Speaker 2: Luther Lawyer walks in Actres's name is Linda Coe. She
Speaker 2: looked familiar. She's an NSA official on the Flash in
Speaker 2: one episode. She's also in Supernatural. You know, she's in
Speaker 2: a lot of the shows up there, So that's why
Speaker 2: she looked from there. Oh that was Oh, that's interesting, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that was like it felt like there was something with
Speaker 2: that character, because you know, they gave her that ominous
Speaker 2: like the way she delivered her line to test and
Speaker 2: I'm like okay, but then like that's it. She's in
Speaker 2: this one, and I'm like, okay, but hey for day
Speaker 2: player A plus, well done. So she comes in says, oh,
Speaker 2: finols of state blah blah blah blah blah. And this
Speaker 2: particular line item wasn't discovered until after Les passed. Little dude,
Speaker 2: we know you were his final day, like just to
Speaker 2: kind of like, this is your boss, Like were you
Speaker 2: talking mess? You know?
Speaker 3: And I was thinking that too. I was like, whoa,
Speaker 3: if your tests, that lady's fired. That's why that's why
Speaker 3: I never saw her again. I forgot that this episode,
Speaker 3: rewatching it that this was. I forgot that it was
Speaker 3: because I haven't rewatched the later seasons and long in
Speaker 3: like a while, and I forgot that it took this
Speaker 3: long to realize that she's the illegitimate daughter of Lionel.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it took about a third of the
Speaker 2: way in to reveal it and then a couple more
Speaker 2: to tell everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is really interesting. Like because because when she
Speaker 3: first appeared on the show and season eight, I think
Speaker 3: we all just assumed that she was like, you know,
Speaker 3: miss test marker tests, that she was like.
Speaker 2: Mercy Gray Lex's lover. Yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, Like this
Speaker 2: works so much better though, Oh it really does. As
Speaker 2: much as I'm being angry about retcons, there's the thing
Speaker 2: to rec con objects that you see with your two
Speaker 2: eyes and then reccon like vague backstories of characters which
Speaker 2: can be cleaned up. Like making her a Luther makes
Speaker 2: everything click and makes so much like why why would
Speaker 2: Lex put her in charge of all this stuff? Like
Speaker 2: he knew, as he says, and as Michael Rose his
Speaker 2: mom himself says, because he came back for the series
Speaker 2: finale and the.
Speaker 3: Sade Yes exactly exactly, and you know it really it really,
Speaker 3: it really does serve the character a lot. Her character
Speaker 3: really is starting with this, I mean this episode in particular,
Speaker 3: then going forward, like she serves the themes of the
Speaker 3: whole season and like the you know, the series in general,
Speaker 3: but really the whole season with the idea of like
Speaker 3: nature versus nurture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so in this box is well we always they
Speaker 2: don't really show it to us yet do they. It's
Speaker 2: like this, you open up this box. What's in the box? Right,
Speaker 2: and it's like something in this velvet bag and she's
Speaker 2: like and she's gonna open it, but then she gets
Speaker 2: a call from Clark. He's like, we have a lead
Speaker 2: maybe a Cadamists labs, and like text is like, because
Speaker 2: that's where you know, that's where she was healed and
Speaker 2: that's where all the lex clones were. I also want
Speaker 2: to shout out this editing moment where like we see
Speaker 2: tests walk out of her office and we just cut
Speaker 2: her walking into Cadmus's labs. Like that's just a cool moment.
Speaker 2: Like I'll just yeah, yeah, it's a great way to
Speaker 2: kind of move between locations without having to establish this
Speaker 2: or that. And uh, apparently a Meal. I love how
Speaker 2: they call him doctor a Meal or a Meal. It's
Speaker 2: doctor Hamilton, all right. The reason, in my opinion, the
Speaker 2: reason they do this is because doctor Hamilton in the
Speaker 2: first couple of seasons, right, yes, yes, it's it's confusing.
Speaker 2: Mort He's a legend. He's a legend and genre legend
Speaker 2: and incredible. But they're like it's like it's not Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a pediatrician. It's just amuses.
Speaker 3: It's probably like so many things in the show that
Speaker 3: you know, you've talked about so much on the podcast
Speaker 3: in terms of like obviously there's like a kind of
Speaker 3: a five yearsh plan, and they really didn't think they
Speaker 3: were going to go on as long as they did.
Speaker 3: So it's like they probably thought, oh, cool, little easter
Speaker 3: egg doctor Hamilton and season two, but it's not really
Speaker 3: you know, related to to the traditional Doctor ham but
Speaker 3: you know, that's just a little easter egg for the
Speaker 3: fans or whatever, and then all these years later they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, we can have an actual doctor Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Clark says a meal due to final search and there's
Speaker 2: one body still on account of far LX one five
Speaker 2: and tests. Is like, oh, well, you know, just because
Speaker 2: he's Luther doesn't mean maybe he's not causing trouble at all.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's you know, maybe it's fine. And of course
Speaker 2: like no tests. It's in their blood. They're born that way.
Speaker 2: I'm like, damn, Clark, I understand, I understand why, because
Speaker 2: this is she is real. She's in a tough spot
Speaker 2: here because she's just found out she's Lionel's illegitimate daughter.
Speaker 2: She hasn't told anybody she's she's been hiding baby Lex
Speaker 2: all right here, and uh, I understand they want to
Speaker 2: put in a position where she doesnt feel comfortable telling
Speaker 2: Clark and put him in this mindset. Right. So yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's what kind of harsh it makes.
Speaker 3: It makes sense from the episode standpoint, but it does
Speaker 3: seem a little bit, like you said, a little bit
Speaker 3: harsh and in context of the full series because of
Speaker 3: the fact that Clark like.
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna leave you a little Alexander. I'll be
Speaker 2: there looking out for your evils in your blood. Uh,
Speaker 2: because even Tess is like, we'll have her to everyone
Speaker 2: deserving a second chance, which is the Superman, but Luther
Speaker 2: blood it's poison. But he must be behind this door.
Speaker 2: It's a lead only one lined with lead, right, which
Speaker 2: how did how did how did Lex know that Clark
Speaker 2: can't see through lead?
Speaker 3: No, I don't mean that's that's a good question. That
Speaker 3: sounds like that sounds like a question for Eisenberg Lex.
Speaker 2: Yeah, also true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the question I had in my head was like,
Speaker 3: maybe it's just not not rewatching season ten in a while,
Speaker 3: but like, what was okay, test is protecting little Lax
Speaker 3: all that stuff.
Speaker 2: If Clark found him, though, like, what's he gonna what's
Speaker 2: the plan? Like, what's he gonna do with him? Clark's
Speaker 2: obviously gonna kill it because he's playing killed this little child. Well,
Speaker 2: Clark doesn't know that it's a it's a kid, like
Speaker 2: he doesn't. He just knows it's a Lex clone and
Speaker 2: somebody's been helping. Oh that's right, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well what's what's interesting is like, so at the end
Speaker 2: of Harvest, the kid who played Lex in season seven
Speaker 2: and eight, the kid he came back for Harvest, Connor Stanhope. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 2: I believe he's fantastic, unless I'm mixing up my young
Speaker 2: looks actress. He's the one of all the one and
Speaker 2: they all did you know good to various degrees. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's the one that really like felt like the spirit
Speaker 2: of micro ros Bom was in this child, and so
Speaker 2: he gives he like that. He makes his turn on
Speaker 2: that episode and test them. We're sending away to facility.
Speaker 2: He's gonna die. I don't care, And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: because he's got the accelerated aging. I'm I don't really
Speaker 2: remember what happened about the accelerated aging. I'm wondering how
Speaker 2: the show's gonna address it. I think they addressed it
Speaker 2: because oh, he's super boy, Like, I think that's how
Speaker 2: they fix it. Yes, he is right, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that canceled out and stopped his age and whatever. Because
Speaker 2: you're asking me about the plant. The original plan was
Speaker 2: this Lex kid was gonna grow into micros bomb. That
Speaker 2: was gonna be Lex right, which which in retrospect would
Speaker 2: have been so much.
Speaker 3: Better that that makes that makes a lot of sense
Speaker 3: that that it's good because Okay, we always go back.
Speaker 2: To this, but.
Speaker 3: In the go ahead, in the finale, it's like, so
Speaker 3: we get Lex zero right, like Lex zero. I feel
Speaker 3: like still to this day, it's like there's still questions
Speaker 3: online about like so it is so Lex zero is
Speaker 3: basically like a Frankinson monster of Lex parts, right, But
Speaker 3: is Lex original the one that died in the truck
Speaker 3: the truck and if so, this is just a cobble together,
Speaker 3: you know, of all the parts.
Speaker 2: That's what the show wants you to believe, and I
Speaker 2: don't like that. So I choose to believe that Lex
Speaker 2: zero was like Lex Prime. Yeah, and the one in
Speaker 2: the truck was like lex one, lex one or whatever.
Speaker 2: That's what I try to believe. They keep it just
Speaker 2: vague enough where it's like, ah, okay, but anyway, I'll
Speaker 2: have to say, I don't know what Clark's plan was
Speaker 2: with Lex here, but they show up and it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's a chessboard because of course there is this little
Speaker 2: cot and his old book and and thanks for the
Speaker 2: read tests. But I'm all growing up now. It sounds
Speaker 2: exactly like something Lex would leave it totally totally, but
Speaker 2: it's switches Clark onto tests. So he's like, you knew
Speaker 2: about this, like, and he just goes into his oh yeah,
Speaker 2: he changes a gear here, and I look, this is
Speaker 2: a very close this is arch Nemesis, right, so I
Speaker 2: can understand why he's so fired up. But man, I
Speaker 2: feel bad for Test here, right, That's how I felt too.
Speaker 3: I was like, dude, just like like I get it right, Like,
Speaker 3: but but Test has been your sort of ally for
Speaker 3: a while now, like let it let her explain, you know,
Speaker 3: even just.
Speaker 2: Like, even after everything Oliver and I did for you,
Speaker 2: this is how you repaying us. And it's like, because
Speaker 2: Oliver has been very skeptical and Clark's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: give her a chance. Man. Yeah, it's not like she's
Speaker 2: a Luther or anything. I won't deserve second chances. But
Speaker 2: I under loook this is it's a little contrived, but
Speaker 2: I understand. Yeah it was. She's like, I was just
Speaker 2: trying to protect your trying to protect shelf, and he
Speaker 2: is true, He's right, yeah, yeah, it's like it.
Speaker 3: Works for It's like, yes, he is jumping to conclusions,
Speaker 3: but it works for the situation and how you feeling.
Speaker 3: And that is just like a Clark trait anyway, about
Speaker 3: jumping the conclusion, so like it makes sense for the character.
Speaker 2: You know, well, speaking of jumping to conclusion. So she
Speaker 2: drops her bag and then then we see this maybe
Speaker 2: the mirror box. What do you have this? She's like, wait,
Speaker 2: let me explain, Yeah, why would you? Why would you
Speaker 2: do that? She's like it's a Cartoni real, Like I
Speaker 2: just got it. I sure to god, I was gonna
Speaker 2: tell you she was. That's so sad, like she was,
Speaker 2: and it's legitimate questions why you have it? And she
Speaker 2: can't explain it yet because she doesn't want to say
Speaker 2: she inherited from Winyl. Yeah, this is a cool prop
Speaker 2: I've actually gotten to see this prop and it does
Speaker 2: miss like this and it has some way to it.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they based it off of the
Speaker 2: projector from Veritas with the message Linel leaves him, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: if not, it's it's based off the same kind of
Speaker 2: like Kryptoni and Rubikski where you turn to I wish
Speaker 2: I had that prop.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of replica props from back in
Speaker 3: the day, but I wish I had that.
Speaker 2: That's a good one. That the Mirror Box. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, okay, somebody watch Star Trek because this is
Speaker 2: very original series Star Trek. Mirror Mirror one of the
Speaker 2: most famous episodes of the original Star Trek. It kind
Speaker 2: of popularized we talked about Parallel Universe. That was one
Speaker 2: of the most mainstream ones about alternate universes and all that,
Speaker 2: and that's I think where a lot of the vibe
Speaker 2: and the vernacular comes from. That's really cool.
Speaker 3: I did not know that actually that that was like
Speaker 3: one of the things that made it like more popular
Speaker 3: in mainstream like that, Yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 2: Which it's it's like us but just a little different,
Speaker 2: and I mean much like you know, Onyx in season
Speaker 2: four is the enemy within that episode of Star Trek
Speaker 2: where Captain Kirk is split into good and evil. That's
Speaker 2: that one, and then this one is clearly mirror mirrors.
Speaker 2: My Star Trek fan coming out here, check it out now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so Test drops her bag, picks up the mirror box,
Speaker 2: and he just starts twisting, just ignoring what she's saying
Speaker 2: and just starts twisting it. And here's the thing man,
Speaker 2: talk about this show in continuity, like the contunity gives
Speaker 2: and continuity takes away, Like the fact that the mirror box,
Speaker 2: which support you to another universe is the transference symbol
Speaker 2: is pretty cool. That was cool.
Speaker 3: That was like okay, it's like, yeah, you have weird,
Speaker 3: silly stuff like the the window, and then you get
Speaker 3: really cool stuff like that where it's in the same
Speaker 3: episode where it's like, wow, that's that's awesome.
Speaker 2: That's a really cool callback. So he wakes up with
Speaker 2: a couple of your favorite characters of the show, right,
Speaker 2: Mandy and Bamby. We don't watch risk another audit. Oh
Speaker 2: but so so yeah, he wakes up and he puts
Speaker 2: his T shirt on. It's the ultraman T shirt, like
Speaker 2: look at you Smallville so cool. That was awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is an amazing loophole of like, well, we're not Superman,
Speaker 2: but he has been the Blur, he's got the well
Speaker 2: we'll give him the ultraman T shirt. I'm like, that's brilliant,
Speaker 2: Like I love that. That is how small the would do.
Speaker 2: Ultra Man. Yes, you know they call him ultraman if
Speaker 2: because he is ultra Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is that's cool, which is really like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's interesting because it's like I remember a friend of
Speaker 3: mine who did He didn't really watch the show, but
Speaker 3: I was always talking to him about the show at
Speaker 3: nauseum in high school and stuff, and like he I
Speaker 3: remember him commenting when he you know, just see like
Speaker 3: previews and stuff like that for the later seasons, and
Speaker 3: he's like, you know, because sometimes he would make fun
Speaker 3: of the show, and he's like, you know, I got
Speaker 3: to give it to the show. Like I'm not watching it,
Speaker 3: but it's pretty cool that they're doing all this like
Speaker 3: comic book stuff.
Speaker 2: It's like it's a different it's a different show that
Speaker 2: than than it used to be. Oh man, but there's
Speaker 2: this like slow reveal, like youau, you don't know where
Speaker 2: Clarky is really like he puts his clothes on, he's
Speaker 2: in a mirror, and then Lionel comes out of the shadows, right.
Speaker 3: I love that, Like right away they got him doing
Speaker 3: his Linel thing, like, you know, him stepping out of
Speaker 3: the shadows, having his quote head and just I.
Speaker 2: Live be alive. He's I can only live once? So
Speaker 2: like what a what a way to go? The opening
Speaker 2: curds like we knew, we knew he was coming back,
Speaker 2: but like what a perfect read or not? Because again
Speaker 2: he's dead, right yeah, establishes that he's not, and then
Speaker 2: calls him something like he calls Clark's son a lot
Speaker 2: but like what does this mean? Like Luther Men, Like
Speaker 2: what does this mean? Yeah, we Luther Men must seize
Speaker 2: our day. So good. And that's the thing, right because
Speaker 2: there's always been talk. It's so funny because you know,
Speaker 2: I don't blame Tom Willing for not remembering everything on
Speaker 2: the show, but but there's been talk on talk. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it would be cool if we did an episodeer like
Speaker 2: if if Lionel raised Clark and somebody's like, well, you
Speaker 2: guys did that, you know, but people had talked with
Speaker 2: that for years, right, It's like an ultimate what if episode. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we're getting it and they're they're hitting the ground
Speaker 2: running and they're really delivering on that concept immediately immediately.
Speaker 3: It was always I remember that on Krypton say. It
Speaker 3: was always like speculation of, oh well, what if Clark
Speaker 3: was raised by Lionel. They even said it in the show,
Speaker 3: you know where, like the Kents would say, like you know,
Speaker 3: things like that, like you know, thank god we found you,
Speaker 3: or you know what if someone else like Lionel, and
Speaker 3: you know, all those kinds we didn't.
Speaker 2: Find you, you found us. Actually, actually no, your your
Speaker 2: biological father was here like forty years ago and really
Speaker 2: liked it. And since you specifically here, that's the actual truth.
Speaker 2: But talk about a reccon anyway, So we go to
Speaker 2: the open credits, We come back and Clark is walking
Speaker 2: through the hallways of Luther Mansion with Lionel, the Ultraman
Speaker 2: Persona's genius. It's great with a strong arm. My opponents, right,
Speaker 2: he's like knop Son because his Ultraman shirt is showing.
Speaker 2: So I assume when he does he like rip open
Speaker 2: his shirt and go to evil stuff his Ultraman and
Speaker 2: his T shirt.
Speaker 3: I think so, right, because it's like like later on
Speaker 3: Clark has you know, Ultraman, Clark has that line about like,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not used to it being lunch and
Speaker 3: not having blood on my hands, you know, Like it's
Speaker 3: like he literally just wakes up and goes out and
Speaker 3: kills people and does evil stuff. And Lionel couldn't be
Speaker 3: more proud any what any son would any father would want.
Speaker 2: Now they go to the Luther Library here and damn it,
Speaker 2: the Veritas one was there as well. But you know what,
Speaker 2: they kind of mentioned the queens and the Swans and
Speaker 2: very I'm like, okay, well that's fine, Like I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not going to complain about this universe because that
Speaker 2: has an established contradictory this universe exactly, it could be
Speaker 2: this universe could have the v there the whole time.
Speaker 2: I don't care. But we get we get a plus
Speaker 2: one for amazing technical or kryptonite because Lionel throws out
Speaker 2: some fencing swords that and they have bluekryptonite to kind
Speaker 2: of equal the footing, which is which is great. It's
Speaker 2: exactly what this Linel would do to kind of somewhat
Speaker 2: control and get some interesting insight at the end of
Speaker 2: the episode from him about this whole thing. Oh my gosh, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's this whole this whole time Clark is questioning is
Speaker 2: like this is possible, Like this is a trial. Yes,
Speaker 2: here's a trial. Like like I like call Clark throughout
Speaker 2: the first like third ist episode, he's trying to reason
Speaker 2: out like what is what is going on? What the hell?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like and and Lionel's are like Tom Wellings,
Speaker 3: you know, we've we've talked.
Speaker 2: About this before.
Speaker 3: I think that he's really great with like he's really
Speaker 3: great with comedy, and but I think I think that
Speaker 3: his performance in these first few scenes, I think it's
Speaker 3: like underrated comedy, Like it's because it's it's not that
Speaker 3: they're playing it for comedy, but it's really funny because
Speaker 3: he's just like, what the hell is happening? And he's
Speaker 3: just trying to catch as Lionel's just so energetic and
Speaker 3: ready to go and ready to quote Marcus Aurelius and
Speaker 3: fence with Clark, well what is happening?
Speaker 2: Then you know, Clark's default state is like confusion right
Speaker 2: on the show, like in general, and so it worked
Speaker 2: so well here because he's like I don't know really
Speaker 2: what's going at all? And we get some good again.
Speaker 2: The right actor can deliver exposition and you don't care
Speaker 2: because it's like, remember, I am your father, I alone
Speaker 2: raised you, Cork Ruth the Man of Tomorrow, and I'm
Speaker 2: like John Lover just just eating it, man, Oh it
Speaker 2: up completely. It's it's like, even though he thinks the
Speaker 2: bad writers a writing.
Speaker 3: Oh man, this is the thing I've always said about him,
Speaker 3: and you really see it in this episode that I
Speaker 3: love that he's not as as an actor. He's not
Speaker 3: afraid to go too far, like he's not afraid to
Speaker 3: hamm it a and he does that so expertly, and
Speaker 3: he's still able to make the character human, you know,
Speaker 3: like he's he's the world's a stage, you know, he's
Speaker 3: just he's so theatrical and it's great.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. I love how he says the Man of
Speaker 2: Tomorrow bringing back the whole I mean, was Lexus Logan
Speaker 2: in season one? Yeah, yeah, now let's let's talk about
Speaker 2: this now. Clark Luther. He should not be named Clark.
Speaker 2: That's like my one real complaint, me.
Speaker 3: Too, me too, What would what would Lionel actually name it?
Speaker 3: It's definitely wouldn't be Clark obviously Julian. I mean, could
Speaker 3: this be Julian reassigned the name, yeah, Julian because they're
Speaker 3: so like it's Clark Can versus Clark Luther. I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: that's not an ultraman. Isn't even these either of these
Speaker 3: guys names so like they could have leaned into their
Speaker 3: mythology a little more.
Speaker 2: Lucas Lucas that's the thing. Where is Lucas Luther? Like
Speaker 2: they have completely three children? I'm like, well, what about
Speaker 2: Lucas Luthor? Like even like I can on this earth,
Speaker 2: he didn't exist? Fine, yea, fine, got it? But in general, like, dude, like,
Speaker 2: where is he inheriting the mirror of box? Right? Where?
Speaker 2: Paul Wesley? Dude, you you're on Vampire Diaries. I can't
Speaker 2: just one. All they needed was one episode with you
Speaker 2: to wrap that up. Yep, totally totally even even a
Speaker 2: even a mention of some kind, right, like, you know,
Speaker 2: just have Lex have killed We brought back Julian and
Speaker 2: clone him to kill him off. Yeah, so just kill anyway.
Speaker 2: But I would have getten back on point with the
Speaker 2: name I would have I would have named him Julian
Speaker 2: because it leans into small the mythology, yes, and if
Speaker 2: and if you know, you know, and if you don't know, oh, well,
Speaker 2: clearly you know that he wouldn't be named Clark because
Speaker 2: that's Martha's middle name. Totally and even totally. They even
Speaker 2: had a way to kind of bring the Earth two
Speaker 2: linell interact with Martha later and they could have brought
Speaker 2: it back around, but they don't, like with like the
Speaker 2: Clark name. I think they might the Clark exactly like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that really that's the only I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: other otherwise, continuity wise, the episode really mostly holds up
Speaker 3: so well besides like the window, but like that's the
Speaker 3: other thing is you.
Speaker 2: Know, is the name. Yeah, I agree, Julian would have been.
Speaker 2: They just thought we were too dumb to not understand
Speaker 2: why he wouldn't be named Clark. Well, they'll be news. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, Lionel has a line who's like I
Speaker 2: shuddered to think when happened to my Little Traveler, which
Speaker 2: I thought we were done with the Traveler, but like
Speaker 2: you know, Verita's window was right there, lean into it. Yes,
Speaker 2: it works, it works if he had been discovered in
Speaker 2: that field by the first ignorant farmer.
Speaker 3: That came along, right, that's where we are line because
Speaker 3: it's like, for all the times the Kents have shuddered
Speaker 3: to think, what if Clark was found by Lionel or
Speaker 3: by a bad person in general, or you know, someone
Speaker 3: who wouldn't be supportive, you know, and they've always had
Speaker 3: that worry. It was so fun to see from the
Speaker 3: villain's perspective. You know, from Lionel's perspective, his fear would
Speaker 3: be Clark being found by.
Speaker 2: Good, good people. It's so good. But this form where
Speaker 2: on Earth would you be now? And then like Clark's like, oh,
Speaker 2: the farm, and so he goes to the farm. I
Speaker 2: have a I have a connuity. No, it's not really
Speaker 2: a deal breakers with throughout there's a big signs a
Speaker 2: farm auction July twenty eighth. I'm like, okay, yeah, the
Speaker 2: farm's on auction. I like it. I really like how
Speaker 2: they lean into this the next episode can't in the
Speaker 2: next Earth two episode, but Oliver Queen is buying up
Speaker 2: all these farms to burn it from meteor rock makes
Speaker 2: perfect sense. Like it's like, truly, I joke about things
Speaker 2: being air tight when they're not on the show. This
Speaker 2: is air tight. Applaud you why so July twenty eighth, like,
Speaker 2: because this is I assume this takes place in November
Speaker 2: December when it came out, right, yes, because like if
Speaker 2: we're because on our Earth, the Lex he was found
Speaker 2: in October and he's getting old, like there's yeah, there's
Speaker 2: a timeline we're working with here, and they probably just
Speaker 2: had that sign and they didn't think about the date
Speaker 2: because it's fine, but I just had to put it
Speaker 2: out yes, because they were probably filming in July or something, right,
Speaker 2: And I have to also say, real quick, just going
Speaker 2: back to the previous scene, how much I'm sure you
Speaker 2: felt this way too, just geeking out so much seeing
Speaker 2: the the sword fight thing. Yeah that since the Lionel
Speaker 2: and Lex days so great. Yeah. Yeah, So Clark's at
Speaker 2: the farm here and this is so he's so slow
Speaker 2: in the uptake and I love how Earth to Test
Speaker 2: calls him out, are you just naive on your Earth?
Speaker 2: Because he's like, yeah, I'm like all right, look listen,
Speaker 2: even if your parents were here and they were alive,
Speaker 2: you were not their son, like like they're not like
Speaker 2: who are you? Who are you?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly, because like remembering Apocalypse and alternate Earth, like
Speaker 2: the other that other kid who's named Clark Kent, which
Speaker 2: shows you, no matter what happened, they would have named
Speaker 2: a kid Clark Kent right, much in the same way
Speaker 2: that Lionel should not have named this so Clark. It's
Speaker 2: just funny because Clark is just so like, dude, get
Speaker 2: get up to speed. So he goes upstairs to talk
Speaker 2: to Test and let me say, you know, I have
Speaker 2: I've kind of fallen in love with Cassidy Freeman rewatching
Speaker 2: the show and yeah, it's pretty hot. It's pretty hot. Scene.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she's she's I always I always had a
Speaker 3: little touch on her right from when she started on
Speaker 3: the show. And then it's just continued, yeah she's uh, yeah,
Speaker 3: she's she's great, and it was it was so fun
Speaker 3: to see the the like frisky in this yeah.
Speaker 2: Like you know, and oh you love to keep me waiting, huh.
Speaker 2: And then later on and then worth too, Clark is like, oh,
Speaker 2: I love to keep you waiting. So they gotta think
Speaker 2: it's like this. I mean, it's this, it's this taboo thing,
Speaker 2: right because it's like he's like, well, last time I checked,
Speaker 2: you're still adopted, and my half it's like, oh, but
Speaker 2: that's what's kind of like it's wrong. That's what makes
Speaker 2: it like interesting. Yeah, it just it just goes with
Speaker 2: the ft up lu this universe is best off, right,
Speaker 2: father will over find us here? Father like our father,
Speaker 2: Oh you're a Luther? Right? Interesting that this is how
Speaker 2: Clark finds out the the information here. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 2: still trying to process. He's like okay, like so there's
Speaker 2: like time travel and if and if I fix something,
Speaker 2: I'll get to go back and make it right. Like
Speaker 2: he's just round. It's like okay, like it.
Speaker 3: For some reason, it reminds me, you know, when he's
Speaker 3: like this gus like trying to piece it together and
Speaker 3: he's like, wait, you're a Luther, like, you know, figuring
Speaker 3: it out out loud like that. It just reminds me
Speaker 3: of one of my other favorite Clark trying to figure
Speaker 3: something out out loud moments. The way back in season
Speaker 3: four when Lana's like upset because she thinks Clark got
Speaker 3: Jason fired and all that stuff.
Speaker 2: It was like you and Jason, yeahs again confusion, that
Speaker 2: is his standard gear. But she said, well, where's your scar?
Speaker 2: At least your scar? He doesn't have what is a
Speaker 2: scar we're gonna find out in a second, but he
Speaker 2: doesn't have a scar. He's like, what's that about? Right?
Speaker 2: So it turns and tests like, oh, he tells me
Speaker 2: about this mirror box and then he says he can't
Speaker 2: find it. And I can't believe I ever thought it'd
Speaker 2: worked with us. Like, so they had you know, Clark
Speaker 2: Luthor and Tess here on the Earth too. They had
Speaker 2: this plan to kind of switch with with you know themselves,
Speaker 2: you know, the universe and leave Linel behind, which is
Speaker 2: that's interesting, Like Clark Luthor likes he is a little
Speaker 2: interesting that I thought, because I think at the time
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, I think we're as good
Speaker 2: as he isn't playing Evil Clark, Like we're kind of
Speaker 2: run out of shades at that. We got rid Kryptonite
Speaker 2: cr we got Bizarro, we got Lionel as Clark. I'm like,
Speaker 2: how how much more can you do? But I think
Speaker 2: this kind of like trying to get out of Linyl
Speaker 2: Shadow is an interesting motivation for this character. Yeah, for
Speaker 2: both of them. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: And it's cool because it really does put Clark the
Speaker 3: Earth one Clerk. It gives him more uh empathy for
Speaker 3: like what Lex had to go through too, Like it's seeing, Oh,
Speaker 3: I could have become just as bad, if not worse,
Speaker 3: you know, than Lex did if I was raised this way.
Speaker 3: And like that's a really interesting you know kind of
Speaker 3: I'm always a fan of when they when they give
Speaker 3: Clark more layers of empathy and understanding as he becomes
Speaker 3: superman like, as he becomes less judgmental.
Speaker 2: Luther blood is poisoned, they're born like, well, no, it's good.
Speaker 2: He needed this to course correct because he had his
Speaker 2: pinch and swung all the way around. So this experience
Speaker 2: gets him back where he needs to be. But yeah,
Speaker 2: this is he keeps guessing and Tests is like, are
Speaker 2: you really this naive in your world because you can't
Speaker 2: figure it out? You don't feel bad for Tests because
Speaker 2: she thought they were gonna, you know, get a rendezvous
Speaker 2: with Clark Luthor and then that's it, Like I know,
Speaker 2: like we'll talk about it in her seat with Lionel.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, does he have her killed?
Speaker 3: You mean you mean oh, you mean like is Earth
Speaker 3: too Test killed? Yeah, but oh wow, that's.
Speaker 2: A great if she's in kn't again, So I don't,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's less left Ambigo.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's I didn't even think that. That's a really
Speaker 3: good question. I mean, he certainly this Lionel certainly wouldn't hesitate,
Speaker 3: even even Earth one Lionel was about to kill Lucas.
Speaker 2: So I'm not get you knew anyway, but but this
Speaker 2: is important next. But it makes sense that Test would
Speaker 2: know this because her and Club Luthor raining on it
Speaker 2: together and she explains like, oh, yeah, the your kinder
Speaker 2: gentle world is about to get an explosive awakening because
Speaker 2: we've switched place, so that this tells Clark what's going on.
Speaker 2: And I'm still I'm waiting. I'm like, when are we
Speaker 2: going to see Ultra Man on Earth? Because like, so
Speaker 2: they switch places physically. We'll talk about this more. We've talked,
Speaker 2: We've talked about it, we'll talking about it more. So.
Speaker 2: Clark Luther goes where Clark Kent was and Clark kit
Speaker 2: goes where Clark Ruth was. So Clark Luther should have
Speaker 2: appeared right there, right there, in the same did he
Speaker 2: just like super speed off or what? Like, I don't
Speaker 2: that's I'm just saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like he you would think you'd see him right
Speaker 3: there at Cadinets, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then you know, we can't can't get the
Speaker 2: setup we get later, so we cut to Metropolis and hey,
Speaker 2: credit to them. The production value is great here they
Speaker 2: add Luthor Corp To everything. Luthor Corp Media is the
Speaker 2: Daily Planet. Everything's gray and dark and like that, like
Speaker 2: do you really feel like this is a true alternate universe? Right?
Speaker 2: And I respect that, like because they don't have they
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of budget in season ten, but
Speaker 2: they're doing what they can with their flags and their
Speaker 2: buildings and their size. There's even a truck that says
Speaker 2: Luther Corp Media. I was like, good for you. Show
Speaker 2: so great? Yeah, so great.
Speaker 3: It's like and and really it also really highlighted, like
Speaker 3: seeing Luther Corp everywhere, Like that really highlighted to me.
Speaker 3: In Earth one, we have Clerk and lex and and
Speaker 3: Clark was to stop and this is what wo exactly exactly,
Speaker 3: this is what it would be right like.
Speaker 2: But then Lois runs into him in her nineteen seventies car.
Speaker 2: I maybe, I mean that is that a thing about?
Speaker 2: Because you know what the did you watch the eroverse
Speaker 2: some I don't know how much I think I think
Speaker 2: I saw well, I think I did see a couple
Speaker 2: of episodes a couple of ya. No, it's I know
Speaker 2: you've been telling me. Did you watch the Flash at all? Yes? Yeah,
Speaker 2: like two in their Earth on their Earth too, it's
Speaker 2: kind of like this kind of retro technology, different vibe,
Speaker 2: but they went for like vertical gvs and fifties vibe
Speaker 2: right for to differentiate it. And I think I might
Speaker 2: have been what they're doing here with lowess car. But
Speaker 2: because it's it's like from the seventies for some I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 3: Why, but yeah, I could see that in a way,
Speaker 3: kind of like like in BTAS. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: the cars look like the forties universe. Yeah, the hyper
Speaker 3: time reality of the forties and eighties.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I like that. I like product I like it
Speaker 2: intentional production design like that. And so they did this here, yeah,
Speaker 2: and so well, let's runs into in this car. She's
Speaker 2: like if all the people were into and then he
Speaker 2: fixes the bumper with his hands, like very cute. I
Speaker 2: love those small displays of power. But we get Clark, dude,
Speaker 2: she's not your wife or not say her girlfriend here, dude, Like,
Speaker 2: get with it, man, because Walas, Oh my god, so
Speaker 2: great to see. She's like, why would I want to
Speaker 2: see you and then enter Oliver Queen and this show
Speaker 2: it cannot get past the less and Oliver thing. But
Speaker 2: I like it here and it works, and I think
Speaker 2: that works really. The other layer here is like they
Speaker 2: both feel like, well, this isn't perfect, but I guess
Speaker 2: it's the best we got right on this, right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he has darker hair here, an interesting choice also, I
Speaker 2: think starting blue contact lenses or does Justin Hardley have
Speaker 2: blue eyes? And I honestly don't know anymore. This episode
Speaker 2: has to be questioning everything. I thought. I thought he
Speaker 2: had brown eyes. Well in real life he does, but
Speaker 2: I think yeah, they pulled a Brandon Ralph on him
Speaker 2: and gave this blonde guy uh dark hair blue. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's yeah. It was.
Speaker 3: It was like interesting the different look like that, and
Speaker 3: to see like the whole him and Lois of it all.
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting too because it's like me
Speaker 3: and my mom talked about this like back in the
Speaker 3: day in season six when it was you know, Lois
Speaker 3: and Oliver and stuff, like we always were like, wow,
Speaker 3: you know, if there wasn't Clark, like, we would really
Speaker 3: ship them like they're great.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I ship all over with tests, I ship
Speaker 2: Oliver the Lewis, I've started to ship all over less
Speaker 2: with Chloe though honestly, I mean, I mean that's that's
Speaker 2: a turnaround I've had over rewatching the show because I'm like,
Speaker 2: you guys, him and Lois and him and the tests
Speaker 2: are these great like foundation and I like, yeah, just
Speaker 2: romantically Chloe and all of her, Like I.
Speaker 3: Don't it's I guess in a way it makes sense
Speaker 3: because it's like if he's not if he can't be
Speaker 3: with Lois, then who's the most like Lowis?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's for sure, right. But then also on
Speaker 2: the flip side, if she can't be with Superman, she
Speaker 2: can be with this universe as Batman. That's how I
Speaker 2: saw it when I was, you know, watching for the
Speaker 2: first time. So well, good for you, Chloe, you be okay,
Speaker 2: you did it op crazy or dead or whatever and
Speaker 2: all the things like tease. But now I'm like, like,
Speaker 2: in concept, I like it, but like I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, y'all. Hears so much better chemistry with these
Speaker 2: other two. Oh yeah, yeah. Our porter comes up. She
Speaker 2: wants to talk to Lois about like what Oliver Queen's
Speaker 2: doing and all. What is he up to, right, but
Speaker 2: then we established, like how long we know you show
Speaker 2: Luther was a boarding school, right. I'm like that establishes it,
Speaker 2: like Clark. You can just kind of insert Lex's backstory
Speaker 2: for Clark here for him, Yeah, exactly because he went
Speaker 2: to Celsier School, and I wonder if they killed that
Speaker 2: kid with the school bus. I don't like.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say yeah, But probably the big difference
Speaker 3: is there's definitely no beating up and bullying. I certainly
Speaker 3: Clark Luther, Yeah, certainly don't think so.
Speaker 2: So he's the one being the bully. So he also says,
Speaker 2: you know all the things, what have you done to
Speaker 2: make this world have been a place? Like that's Oliver's
Speaker 2: kind of It's interesting like in every universe, Oliver is
Speaker 2: giving Clark crap about that. So that I know tracks
Speaker 2: but no, I I in the background of the scene,
Speaker 2: I'm serious, Like, there's there's a there's a truck. This
Speaker 2: is Luthercork Media, and I respect the fact that's a
Speaker 2: physical truck because it's so I mean, you go in
Speaker 2: a computer and you can change some Luther Cork graphics
Speaker 2: and all that stuff for them, like to have a
Speaker 2: physical thing there I respected that. But then uh yeah,
Speaker 2: then some guy's still in a Blu ray player, right,
Speaker 2: Clark decides to be a hero, goes don't belong to you?
Speaker 2: And what did What did you make it?
Speaker 1: Is?
Speaker 3: I thought it was funny that the guy thought, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's funny, but also revealing of the Ultraman character that
Speaker 3: he thought he was going to kill him for that.
Speaker 2: You know Clark again, Sony, were you so Afraie Clark?
Speaker 2: Why do you think people are afraid of all ultramat
Speaker 2: But he said because no, but he lives to see
Speaker 2: ultra man's face. I'm like, oh, well that makes sense,
Speaker 2: Like there's a secret identity. If he sees you, he's
Speaker 2: gonna kill you, Yeah, to maintain a secret identity. And
Speaker 2: he's like, why don't turn me into a murderer. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right. But but you know what I found really amusing.
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know what I found really amusing
Speaker 2: is I'm talking about how the Blur has gone around
Speaker 2: burning the S symbol everywhere, just burning it everywhere, and
Speaker 2: like property damage and all this. We see this Ultraman
Speaker 2: symbol on the wall, but it's like spray paint. I'm like,
Speaker 2: is he less destructive than the Blur. I'm just saying, yeah,
Speaker 2: you would think he would be like just literally torching
Speaker 2: buildings now the only and I thought, and then I
Speaker 2: thought to myself, I counterthought to myself, Oh, Luther corbones
Speaker 2: all these buildings, so he doesn't want to creat property damage,
Speaker 2: property damage. That makes total sense. But I love this
Speaker 2: transit because this is the transition, right, Clark's in this
Speaker 2: alleyway and he sees the Ultraman symbol and so we
Speaker 2: do this kind of like the camera pans up and
Speaker 2: he keeps paying against the kind of three sixteen. Then
Speaker 2: flip around. Yeah, and in the same alleyway and and
Speaker 2: it's a Superman symbol or a Blur symbol there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was awesome. The transitions are really great and
Speaker 3: the episode like good taking us from one earth to
Speaker 3: the other is really awesome.
Speaker 2: We can only assume that Clark Luthor super sped to
Speaker 2: that spot after he was a cadmus. I don't I
Speaker 2: don't get it, but uh, anyway, but it's a cool.
Speaker 2: Oh we see the scar the Luther crest from that
Speaker 2: opening shot of the wind. Yeah, that's why Roka, that's
Speaker 2: why they've like, well, we can't have the V and
Speaker 2: that that's a little complicated. We got a simplify it. Well,
Speaker 2: should we just switch it out? No, no, that would
Speaker 2: be dumb. Let's just let's just have two, Like okay, anyway,
Speaker 2: that's whatever. No no, no, no no no no no no,
Speaker 2: no no one. So we go to commercial. We've established
Speaker 2: the Clark Luther's he's on our Earth. We come back.
Speaker 2: Test is like frantically doing research and then on the
Speaker 2: Daily Planet and trying to figure the stuff out, and uh,
Speaker 2: somebody comes in. She's like, I told you I didn't
Speaker 2: want to be disturbed. It's it's Clark Luthor. And again
Speaker 2: this this energy between them. I'm like, I'm kind of
Speaker 2: digging it right because it's Clark and Test. Yeah, Clark
Speaker 2: and Test. No, it was, it was. It was great.
Speaker 3: And I also thought it was really you know, they
Speaker 3: have great chemistry. And it was also I thought really
Speaker 3: funny that, like you could tell Tests was like into it,
Speaker 3: like Earth one.
Speaker 2: Test was into it. She was like yeah, well at
Speaker 2: first she was like okay, okay, of course she's in
Speaker 2: love with Clark, and as Lionel says that he is
Speaker 2: a god, of course you love Clark yes, yes, he
Speaker 2: is a god and you are a whore with a
Speaker 2: Magdalene complex. I would just laughed him too good for
Speaker 2: you test. And then Clark's like, I like making you wait,
Speaker 2: So it's there. It's there. It's whatever game they have
Speaker 2: on the other earth. And he thinks this is his tests.
Speaker 2: And then she activated the mirror box somehow without his
Speaker 2: knowledge and brought them both there. That's what that's what
Speaker 2: he thinks. And she's like, this is so Cassidy Freeman
Speaker 2: is really playing the scene because she has to play
Speaker 2: like because she turns her back to poor Drink, She's like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, we're gonna say and then she's trying
Speaker 2: to like fool him to thinking that she's his It's great.
Speaker 3: And she does a great job of playing those different
Speaker 3: layers so that the audience sees what's going on in
Speaker 3: her head, you know, but that it's like it's it's
Speaker 3: an interesting thing as an actor to play like subtly,
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to show my cards. I'm not trying
Speaker 3: to give it away, you know how she and she's
Speaker 3: she does a good job of that. I think when
Speaker 3: she's like, you know, trying not to give it away
Speaker 3: with ultramat.
Speaker 2: Now she noticed this. His scar still bothers you. Lecture
Speaker 2: knew how to leave an impression. Huh, there's no take
Speaker 2: backs with gold k. I'm like, all right, cool gold kryptonite,
Speaker 2: gold kryptinite. They established that on Earth too, and then
Speaker 2: comes back around on this Earth plus two for ryite. Well,
Speaker 2: well we don't see it though, right, so I guess
Speaker 2: we shouldn't we and we do see it will count
Speaker 2: when we see it, we'll count. But let's let me
Speaker 2: let me ask you about ryptonite Rocca for a minute.
Speaker 2: If he's exposed to it, he should lose his power, right, yes,
Speaker 2: So how how would one go about carving the Luther
Speaker 2: Shield in his arm without removing his powers permanently? What
Speaker 2: are your thoughts?
Speaker 3: That's a good question, Like, yeah, that's a really good question.
Speaker 3: How how would that work? What is the what I'm
Speaker 3: trying to remember? What is the reset?
Speaker 2: Is there? Like, what's the Well, no, it's it's there.
Speaker 2: There are no take backs, that's it. Yeah. So then
Speaker 2: thinking thinking about the series finale, remember when Oliver has
Speaker 2: the gold crib knit ring and close. Oh Yea's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is them not understanding krystin. They think.
Speaker 2: I've watched Lord of the Rings the night before, and
Speaker 2: like this is like the the one ring and if
Speaker 2: you you put it on, it's like the red cryb
Speaker 2: Knight Ring and blue one of the most frustrating episodes
Speaker 2: of the show. You guys already cover it like he's
Speaker 2: worrying around this. He's walking with the blue crypt knite, like, oh,
Speaker 2: here it is Clark, and it doesn't effectively puts on
Speaker 2: the ring, like come on, man, and so like if
Speaker 2: a gold krym knite anything is right in front of him,
Speaker 2: he should know how any powers. And then it's that's
Speaker 2: it came over, right, Yeah, Like and I get whether
Speaker 2: I applaud the introducing gold kryptonite, I don't know. And
Speaker 2: you know what, we didn't see this happen. We don't
Speaker 2: know how it went down. So I really can't dissect
Speaker 2: it and say it's wrong. I'm just saying, like I'm
Speaker 2: raising the question. Yes, I guess he has a gold
Speaker 2: crypt Night dagger and carved it into his arm when
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 3: I Yeah, that's that's really interesting when you think of
Speaker 3: all the different forms of kryptonite that they've done on
Speaker 3: the show, like it's interesting to think how like how
Speaker 3: far it's it's come into the again with that with
Speaker 3: the comic book territory thing, like in terms of just
Speaker 3: having so many Kryptonites and all these different things they
Speaker 3: can do, even if it can be inconsistent. Like just
Speaker 3: back in the day when Red first aired, it was like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, this is a different Krystinite, Like it was
Speaker 3: like that was such a different thing for the show,
Speaker 3: so kind of bizarre to have this other crypto and
Speaker 3: now it's like various different ones you know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because if you think back, I mean they
Speaker 2: had green and Red, they introduced black, and there was
Speaker 2: like a one off, two off thing, and of course
Speaker 2: then they brought it back in season eight. Yeah, then
Speaker 2: silver crypto night but Brinia came up with that, but
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, we're gonna stop there. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's cool. But now it's like blue Gold jim Stone
Speaker 2: cryptonite last season, which is like what anyway, So Tess
Speaker 2: and Clark Luther is still talking here and he's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: there's not even a hint of Lionel here, and ts like, yeah,
Speaker 2: lex Lex killed in a few years ago. I guess
Speaker 2: Lex get something right on this earth. I love that.
Speaker 2: That was so great, so good.
Speaker 3: Well, interestingly, it raised the question for me, why has
Speaker 3: Clark Luther not killed Lionel.
Speaker 2: Because he's not a true Luther. He's not the strongest.
Speaker 2: I am the I am the strongest.
Speaker 3: Well that's true, because Lionel says that about you know,
Speaker 3: no true some would have let me live this long, right, there.
Speaker 2: Is something to be said about that. Firs shou Is
Speaker 2: this episode in the next one makes ultraman this like
Speaker 2: unsympathetic bastard. There is a redemption for him at the end,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I don't know how I feel about that,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, okay, like the fact that he didn't
Speaker 2: do that, I'm like, huh, maybe some good to your point.
Speaker 2: Here comes the line of like feels wrong having blood
Speaker 2: in my hands before, And this this is where we
Speaker 2: get more like because Tests is like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: the great thing about here is you can have lunch
Speaker 2: anytime you want. He's like, what if I want lunch
Speaker 2: right now? And She's like that was so great, Oh
Speaker 2: my goodness. And because Test, only only Test could survive
Speaker 2: this Switter interaction because her like her Luther training yes,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: Later on Lionel has that line where he's like, you know,
Speaker 3: don't lie tests, you're not any good at it, and
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm thinking she's pretty good, Like well
Speaker 3: that test, that's the that's why the opposite is right.
Speaker 3: But Clark Luther wants the box.
Speaker 2: I'm called Ultraman, right, call hi ultramat because when else
Speaker 2: are we gonna get use those names? So Ultraman wants
Speaker 2: to box and uh, Tests is like, oh let me
Speaker 2: uh let me go on a mansion and and I'll
Speaker 2: get it and then we can then we can celebrate.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh yeah, all right, all right test because
Speaker 2: if he just if Clark the ultra man, his plan
Speaker 2: is we destroyed the box, then they can't send us back.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, that makes their motivation. They don't
Speaker 2: the thing is oh a new Earth to conquer. Yeah, maybe,
Speaker 2: but their their main motivation is get out of life,
Speaker 2: out of Lionel's which makes it because that's what he says,
Speaker 2: it is lils world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there there there's even as evil as Ultraman is,
Speaker 3: there is a little bit of sympathy for that motivation,
Speaker 3: you know, like just escaping Lionel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Ultraman goes on his way and we getnother
Speaker 2: close up a test like, oh my god, screwed. Uh
Speaker 2: now this is a I totally forgot the scene. This
Speaker 2: is an honorable scene. Lois is gonna get some coffee
Speaker 2: on her day off call from Test and Mercier. No,
Speaker 2: of course not. Don't take any work calls on your
Speaker 2: day off, That's what Lois says. So she she goes
Speaker 2: to this uh verista. She's like, regular black coffee. You
Speaker 2: can tell. The guys like huh, Like what what a
Speaker 2: cheap Oh? She's like, I don't quit your day job
Speaker 2: and kind of pisss the guy off. So she tips
Speaker 2: extra and the karma jar, which I like. There's a
Speaker 2: random guy behind them. We don't know why yet, but
Speaker 2: it's gonna come clear out a second. Her card gets
Speaker 2: the climb and she's like, well that's not that can't
Speaker 2: be right. And then while this is going on, this
Speaker 2: guy behind her gets hello, who is this you want
Speaker 2: to speak to? Lowest Lane Like, I just I love
Speaker 2: this little scene.
Speaker 3: I know that was great, Like it's just it's fun
Speaker 3: to see Lois just on her day off, just doing
Speaker 3: Lois things blissfully unaware of how you know, how weird
Speaker 3: everything's gotten in the episode.
Speaker 2: So it's like, are you Lowis Lane, She's like, who
Speaker 2: wants to know? And then it's Tasha Lane, I'm calling you.
Speaker 2: It's for a reason you need to get to watch
Speaker 2: right now because obviously she's watched over now so she
Speaker 2: saw her on a security camp, obviously made her credit
Speaker 2: card get climbs using that power. Lois gives this guy
Speaker 2: his phone back and he's like, oh, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: Blewis so like that was just a nice like you
Speaker 2: didn't need it. But it just fleshes out the world
Speaker 2: kind of the way that like the Sam Raimi trilogy
Speaker 2: fleshes out in New York with characters and things. It's
Speaker 2: the same kind of energy I got because we don't
Speaker 2: we don't see that a lot on Small No.
Speaker 3: It's a little a lot of times we're more just like, Okay,
Speaker 3: get to the next pop point like kind of thing.
Speaker 3: And it's fun when they have those little moments. It
Speaker 3: just like just a little fun character moment like that,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she gets up there and uh tests all
Speaker 2: these screens and it's just like, well, uh, I con
Speaker 2: frown her technology if you think that all, because what
Speaker 2: she what she gonna do to help? Right? Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is I can't I can't get in contact with the team.
Speaker 2: You can see you see Oliver, you see Barts in
Speaker 2: the background, Like Okay, even though it's frustrating, we're never
Speaker 2: gonna see half these people again. For example, at.
Speaker 3: Least there's yeah, exactly, they're still out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, well that's that one was so funny
Speaker 2: about like like isis? For example that episode, I said,
Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna say the name of Yah, but I'll
Speaker 2: up here because like Hawkman, dude, that's totally Hawkman's fault.
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, you're you're escavating this site. You lost
Speaker 2: the necklace of Isis? Dude? What do you do it?
Speaker 2: And they try to call him that he's unanswered. But
Speaker 2: that's good on you show, because if they hadn't called Hawkman,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, dude, why don't you call Hawkman? This
Speaker 2: is his problem? Right? So they I don't know what
Speaker 2: they're doing to be somewhere without cell phone reception, but
Speaker 2: they didn't really work on their satellites. But but do
Speaker 2: we want the Justice League showing up in every episode. No,
Speaker 2: we first of all, real world, we can't afford them.
Speaker 2: But some of all, this is a Superman show. We
Speaker 2: can't have them showing up over the mess.
Speaker 3: Exactly like but you know, it would have been funny
Speaker 3: if on one of the cameras you saw just a
Speaker 3: little batsymbol.
Speaker 2: Oh no, well that's right. A billionaire with wonderful toys, right,
Speaker 2: and a wondrous woman who'll throwy for loop. One of
Speaker 2: my most hated lions of the show. You probably like it,
Speaker 2: don't you. You probably like that. I nerd out. It's ridiculous,
Speaker 2: but it's great. I just like got just just don't
Speaker 2: act like they exist. Don't have Chloe, say a lion
Speaker 2: from eighty nine to tell me Batman exists, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. But they do in season eleven. There
Speaker 2: it is so Clark Luthor. You know, he got himself
Speaker 2: a nice coat along the way. Uh, I don't. Maybe
Speaker 2: he had the coat, he took it off, he got
Speaker 2: it back on. Yeah that's right. Wait Wait a minute,
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. So Clark switched places
Speaker 2: with him, so he was naked in bed. Clark Luther
Speaker 2: switched places with Clark. He should have been wearing that
Speaker 2: blue shirt and jacket. Oh yes, he just immediately went
Speaker 2: and got it. He just a suit. He immediately saw
Speaker 2: it and was like, what the hell is this? And
Speaker 2: he stole a suit. Okay, this I believe this guy
Speaker 2: would do it. I believe this guy would do it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, speaking of Clark Ruthor, he shows up and
Speaker 2: he means business. He comes through the skylight. Oh that
Speaker 2: was a great Superhero superl landing. Superl landing. That was
Speaker 2: a great Superhero landing. And it was rolls backs and Lois.
Speaker 3: That was really like I really like the dramatic, you
Speaker 3: know in the editing, the the silence that followed that moment,
Speaker 3: because usually I feel like there's those type of moments
Speaker 3: like you know, Clark throws someone and you know he
Speaker 3: does this and that, and there's like like the sound
Speaker 3: effects and the music and but this was like really
Speaker 3: emphasized the scariness of it. That is like bam and
Speaker 3: then silence, deadly silence as he's looking.
Speaker 2: Even his complete, even his complete just disregard for Loa.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, Clark, this is some kind of red
Speaker 2: k episode we can work on. He just picture up
Speaker 2: and throws her. Yeah, I'm like this is like like
Speaker 2: violence is well.
Speaker 3: Really emphasized what a monster ultraman is and there's there's
Speaker 3: zero connection because there wouldn't be with Lois, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he just superheard them. He's like
Speaker 2: a remarkable which you can hear when you stop and listen.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's how you found out of what's
Speaker 2: going on? Right, Yes, so he keeps fit this. This
Speaker 2: is a character tick that he has which comes into
Speaker 2: play in the next episode that he's in, which they
Speaker 2: plant the seats for it. Here he has his ring
Speaker 2: and he keeps filling with it. Yeah, because you know
Speaker 2: people have like jewelry and the like. He has his
Speaker 2: tick and we see it. I'm like, they didn't just
Speaker 2: invent that for the next time we see him, Yes, totally, yes,
Speaker 2: Like so he tells tests like look, I want the
Speaker 2: mirror box. Actually, what if I give it to He's
Speaker 2: like hmm, then I'll kill you. I'm like, damn like that. See,
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, like Tom Welling, he's doing something here
Speaker 2: with all. Yeah. So I think I mean, obviously Lionel
Speaker 2: As Clark is number one Red K Clark a those
Speaker 2: people call him should always annoy me, but col is
Speaker 2: number two, then Ultraman, Yeah, and then Bizarre is probably
Speaker 2: at the bottom the Guard with the Wars in terms
Speaker 2: of your favorite alternate Clark. Yeah, that's how it ranked
Speaker 2: the evil clerks of the show.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's a great ranking.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 3: And it's fun to see just completely uninhibited Ultraman. Uh
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, he liked you know, he had his
Speaker 3: fling with Tests in Earth too, but he's totally ready
Speaker 3: to kill her if she doesn't do what he wants.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I believe, and I believe. You've seen his
Speaker 2: brutality and his reputation in the Other Earth, so you
Speaker 2: know he'll do it. Yeah, he's Ryan P. Thrusts. So uh.
Speaker 2: Then we go to a commercial. We come back right
Speaker 2: on Earth too. We're in Lionel's office as we find out,
Speaker 2: and and Tess is going through the Veritas journals, rips
Speaker 2: out a page of the Mirror Box, a new page
Speaker 2: of the I love like keep adding these pages? Was
Speaker 2: there along? Right? And hey, Cassidy Freeman gets some scenes
Speaker 2: with John glomer How about that we were talking about
Speaker 2: one of Mike rosmant to get some more Cassidy Freeman
Speaker 2: gets some so great.
Speaker 3: The two of them played so so well off of
Speaker 3: each other, and like she Cassidy did does such a
Speaker 3: great job of just showing her heartbreak and you know,
Speaker 3: you like trying trying to be tough and trying to
Speaker 3: do you know, but but like just how sad she
Speaker 3: is that Lionel is just so cruel to her and dismissive,
Speaker 3: and you know, John Glovery is just so heartless in
Speaker 3: the scene. It's great because it's like you really see
Speaker 3: as evil as earth One Lionel is, you know, and
Speaker 3: it was until his whole redemption, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like a lot of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did still love Lex in his twisted way,
Speaker 3: and he even with an illegitimate son like Lucas, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean he was ready to kill him, but like
Speaker 3: but he and he tried to kill him.
Speaker 2: I love that scene. So he should have just killed him.
Speaker 2: He should have killed They might as well have killed him.
Speaker 3: If they killed him, then they wouldn't have to worry
Speaker 3: about continuity. Like but but even when he's like manipulating Lucas,
Speaker 3: let's say, there's still a lot of guile and charm,
Speaker 3: like false charm and like I'm just gonna tell this
Speaker 3: kid what he wants, you know, and pretend to be
Speaker 3: a nice dad or whatever, like even though he's just
Speaker 3: my bastard son and I don't really care where is
Speaker 3: in earth to you. It's like he's just like says
Speaker 3: exactly what he's thinking to tests and he knows it's
Speaker 3: gonna crush her, and he just like goes for the juguler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he knows everything about what's going on. So
Speaker 2: it's funny he comes in here the the the Veritas
Speaker 2: book is a jar. So oh doing research for for
Speaker 2: that ill advised coup. It's a great tragedy. You and
Speaker 2: your brother are playing. Yes, I know all about that, Like,
Speaker 2: so he knows that. I buy it. Man, he's he's
Speaker 2: boundering everybody. I mean, this is how he's got to
Speaker 2: stay on top. Yeah, he's got to know what's going on.
Speaker 2: It's only his only way to survive. By the way,
Speaker 2: I noticed that there's a Bonzeye tree on his desk.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's ever been one there before.
Speaker 2: That's a nice touch. And it reminded me that there's
Speaker 2: a scene shout out to the guys in the All
Speaker 2: Star super Fan podcast because they love the John Shay
Speaker 2: LICKSU thro oh a whole scene, he's like clipping a
Speaker 2: bonzeye tree talking about it. Yes, I made me think that, yes,
Speaker 2: this is a specific thing, that's what he would do. Yes.
Speaker 3: Oh, I feel like that had to have been like
Speaker 3: an intentional not intentional Yeah maybe maybe, I mean yeah,
Speaker 3: but seeing it just made me think of that. I
Speaker 3: know they've talked about that before, so I can just
Speaker 3: see Lionel monologue clipping away, which again one of the
Speaker 3: missed opportunities John Shay lex one of the clones.
Speaker 2: We talked about that before, all these clones. Why is
Speaker 2: John Shane I want to Oh my goodness, man, he
Speaker 2: was doing you next. You can do that, you can
Speaker 2: do small realize Anyway, Lionel has that line to her
Speaker 2: about being a whore. Basically that's what he says, and
Speaker 2: she slaps him, like, hey, good for you. Test right, Well,
Speaker 2: that just makes what I have to do a whole
Speaker 2: lot easier than call security. And like, I think he's
Speaker 2: just had to execute it after this man, Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know if we see her again, test crazy. I
Speaker 2: didn't even think of that. I thought he was just
Speaker 2: throwing her out, But I could easily see that. Just
Speaker 2: like she's like, well, why you'll never love Clark, Like,
Speaker 2: of course you love Clark. He's a god among men,
Speaker 2: you know. So I just feel so bad for both
Speaker 2: test tests. A tragic character.
Speaker 3: She really is cheated terribly by both Lionels and with universes,
Speaker 3: like in different ways.
Speaker 2: You know, talk about Leani into the comics though more roka,
Speaker 2: like they should have just had to be Lena Luther.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, and like call Clark Julian and
Speaker 2: call her and Lena, But again, I think they don't
Speaker 2: want to confuse the audience. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, if she was Yeah, if she
Speaker 3: was Leana, like that would have made so much sense,
Speaker 3: right because that's.
Speaker 2: Her middle Lea Luthor. Then fine, but just just you're
Speaker 2: calling him ultra man's just just go with her. She
Speaker 2: picks up this picture, this is this photoshop picture of
Speaker 2: like young Clark and younger John Glover. She's like, why
Speaker 2: couldn't you love me the way you love Clark? And
Speaker 2: he's like, well you just weren't that special, dam and
Speaker 2: she shatters the picture and it's so cruel. Take her away.
Speaker 2: She's like he's going to betray you. And she's right,
Speaker 2: I mean she is she is right. Yeah, but what
Speaker 2: a great what a great So, what a gift for
Speaker 2: Cassie Freeman to have scenes with John Looverlow there we'll
Speaker 2: talk about the finale. She's the one that's the scenes
Speaker 2: with him, Yes, she and he's just as contestating to
Speaker 2: her there. He's like, flex is a visionary. You're not like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is great stuff, so so good.
Speaker 2: And I think another reason we enjoy it so much
Speaker 2: is like it's cements her as Luthor, like it all
Speaker 2: just fits into place, Like Lionel's talking to her like
Speaker 2: it's all like it's an alternate Earth, so it makes sense.
Speaker 2: And she she doesn't feel out of place, doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like you try to weirdly graft her on, like she
Speaker 2: fits right in.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's it really just adds so much to her character.
Speaker 3: And it's really uh interesting to see the just the
Speaker 3: dynamic in just that one scene, you know, like that's
Speaker 3: that scene in that short amount of time just told
Speaker 3: us everything we need to know about their whole dynamic
Speaker 3: on Earth.
Speaker 2: Right, So we stayed on Lionel's face, He's like considering
Speaker 2: what Test said, and maybe and he's like, hmm, she's right,
Speaker 2: maybe Clark is gonna betray me. So Clark goes to
Speaker 2: the fortress. You know, we're in a bit of a
Speaker 2: tell spout right now, and Lionel's like, i'd call that
Speaker 2: another state.
Speaker 3: That whole part made me laugh because, like one, it
Speaker 3: made me laugh of when he says that about we're
Speaker 3: not on good terms or whatever to Durell, because because
Speaker 3: I haven't revisited season ten in a while, I was like,
Speaker 3: that just made me laugh because it was like I
Speaker 3: forgot why, but I was just like, when are they not?
Speaker 3: And when are when are they in a good spot?
Speaker 3: You know, like and then and then just that's an
Speaker 3: understatement and he.
Speaker 2: Alid this reminds me of when he takes over the caves, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: season three, That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of the him taking over
Speaker 3: the caves and les of course finding the fortress. There's
Speaker 3: just some in season seven, you know, like there's just something.
Speaker 2: Step above from the barn. Yeah, there's just something really
Speaker 2: creepy and sinister and wrong about seeing a Luther in
Speaker 2: the Fortress of Solitude. And yes, yeah too even right yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: So It's funny because I'm like, has Lionel been in
Speaker 2: the Fortress four? And I thought, yes, and hidden when
Speaker 2: he's the the when he's the Oracle of Jorel, like
Speaker 2: Lionel's there, but he's not, like they're there, but his
Speaker 2: body is there. So yes. But this is a fun scene.
Speaker 2: You know, Lionel starts quoting Leers, like wherever lear Son
Speaker 2: he had the three children?
Speaker 3: It might as you as you know, I love Shakespeare
Speaker 3: and so it was really fun, like rewatching that that scene.
Speaker 3: One of the classes, the drama film classes that I taught,
Speaker 3: we would always do Shakespeare plays and turn them into
Speaker 3: movies and uh and yeah. So it was really fun,
Speaker 3: and we did one of our years, we did King
Speaker 3: Lear as a spaghetti western like Good, the Bad, and
Speaker 3: the Ugly style. But when I was describing King Lear
Speaker 3: to the students who didn't know anything about it, I
Speaker 3: pretty much just quoted Lionel like.
Speaker 2: It's very if he can explain it succinctly to confuse
Speaker 2: Clark over here. Well, and and I'm one of their like, oh,
Speaker 2: we can't mention lucas a screws up our analogy, so
Speaker 2: let's just ignore him. Forget about it, but on Earth
Speaker 2: too didn't exist? Fine, perfect works, it works. It's you know,
Speaker 2: he has the two sons fighting and the one who
Speaker 2: at the least and or the two kid whatever, right, yes,
Speaker 2: the the so so in his analogy, right, it's like
Speaker 2: he's coming to terms with that Lex in this universe
Speaker 2: was maybe the son, the child that loved him the most.
Speaker 2: Right is when he's.
Speaker 3: He's saying that he that was his, uh Cordelia, like
Speaker 3: that was his, the one that was the good child
Speaker 3: that he disowned, right right, yeah, which is interesting like.
Speaker 2: The show, we can't get him back, you know why?
Speaker 2: That's good? Like I have no idea what occurred? Right,
Speaker 2: but Clark's like I killed Lex. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what happened there? Like did he did he? Did
Speaker 2: that happen in the incident where he scarred him and
Speaker 2: then he killed him? After that? I don't know?
Speaker 3: And later later later Lionel says, I let you kill Lex.
Speaker 3: So it's like he he knew Clark was planning to
Speaker 3: kill him, right, Like, but it would be I would
Speaker 3: love to have seen flashback of but of course that
Speaker 3: would have needed a right, let's flashback of that?
Speaker 2: But but how old were they when that happen? You think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: because he could have just been kids sending kids bring
Speaker 2: back they could bring up like Junger actress. That's and
Speaker 2: so that's that's a good thing to talk about her.
Speaker 2: Like there's so much you could look at it as
Speaker 2: missed opportunity, Like if you go to an altern universe
Speaker 2: and like where's Lex, Where's Jimmy, where's Coley? I'm like,
Speaker 2: all valid questions. I mean, we get the Jonathan and
Speaker 2: Martha answer in the next episode on Earth too, so
Speaker 2: that covers that. But they're telling such a good story
Speaker 2: that I'm not cut up in that same I'm like,
Speaker 2: where's where's Wada? Shouldn't she be around? Right, don't worry
Speaker 2: about that. Don't worry about that exactly. It's like you're
Speaker 2: just you're You're in the moment with the story. This
Speaker 2: is the story they're telling on this alternate Earth. I
Speaker 2: gotta be cool because oh, if Wanda was around in theory, right,
Speaker 2: But like, no, no, no, that's gonna just be a distraction.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but uh, Winea pulls out this paper. He's like,
Speaker 2: it's very confusing. You were looking for this because I
Speaker 2: thought we were all looking for things to uh to
Speaker 2: destroy anything fun kryptod and I that's exactly what they
Speaker 2: would do, because you should probably should have anywhere, right
Speaker 2: because all the pro Zaw Doomsday, all these things Dark
Speaker 2: Site came from a Kryptonian portal or whatever. Krypton is bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you think about it, is there ever besides
Speaker 3: the fortress? Is there ever anything that comes from Krypton
Speaker 3: that's helpful?
Speaker 2: I mean, Henry Cavill had a right man, Krypton had
Speaker 2: his chance. It's a shamber, right, I mean seriously, Lionel
Speaker 2: tells Kark and oh Oliver Queen him and his family
Speaker 2: had possession of it when Veritas was dissolved. I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: very okay, Yeah, totally fine with Veritas in the university.
Speaker 2: I lean into it. Right, he had the best and
Speaker 2: for people who haven't heard it, I don't know what
Speaker 2: probably was Traveler the episode were on together talking about
Speaker 2: you had the best alternate idea for Vertos where it's
Speaker 2: like the Queens and the Tigues and the Swans could
Speaker 2: all done it. And then Lionel was like, I want
Speaker 2: in on this group and I'm gonna kill you all off,
Speaker 2: and you know, like that's yes, instead of him knowing
Speaker 2: all along. Yeah, it makes so much sense. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I forgot about my theory but yes, I mean my idea,
Speaker 3: but yes, yeah, that would have made so much sense. Right,
Speaker 3: It's like they still could have had their secret society thing,
Speaker 3: but not You're doing a total mess up of continuity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just right. Cons Lionel one through seven, and
Speaker 2: I know Clark is the traveler anyway, but I like
Speaker 2: the little little sprinkling that little references there. So he's
Speaker 2: turned Clark onto Oliver Queen.
Speaker 3: Which, by the way, was I forgot that and rewatching
Speaker 3: it until later. I forgot that Lionel was lying, so
Speaker 3: that was right doublecross.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was really great. So I just yeah, I
Speaker 2: just want to make a proud dad and he's like
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah that moment too, when when he puts his
Speaker 3: hand on Clark and then Clark like backs away.
Speaker 2: Were you thinking of that moment? Did it remind the
Speaker 2: series finale?
Speaker 3: I was I was going to say, oh yeah, that dude, No,
Speaker 3: I was gonna say from Legacy when he's like, after all,
Speaker 3: you only get one.
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, what do you doing down here? It
Speaker 2: must be hard to see him so weak. Yeah. So seriously,
Speaker 2: like again, like I have not had as much fun
Speaker 2: watching a season ten episode as this one just because
Speaker 2: of the presence of John Glover, just totally just he's magnetic. Man,
Speaker 2: He's so magnetic, you know.
Speaker 3: Side personal note, I've for years obviously wanted to work
Speaker 3: with him, you know, as a director because I make
Speaker 3: movies and stuff, and you know, I don't know if
Speaker 3: he's really acting like anymore at eighty or not.
Speaker 2: But he's He's mentioned that like he doesn't take a
Speaker 2: lot of jobs and more because it takes him so
Speaker 2: long to rememborize lions, right, because he's like he's back
Speaker 2: in the day, it takes me a day, but now
Speaker 2: I'm like it give me a week, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So maybe the key is just not not to
Speaker 3: write him too many lions and it's.
Speaker 2: Something where you can read off of or he's like
Speaker 2: Marlon Brendo style. Yeah, Like, okay, John Glover, if you're listening,
Speaker 2: Oh man, we cut to the the the engagement party
Speaker 2: for Lowis and Oliver, right those and all of ours, yes,
Speaker 2: which is so interesting. At the Ace of Clubs. So
Speaker 2: there's the little flyer here. It's on Friday December twelfth,
Speaker 2: twenty ten. That's when this day is taking place. So
Speaker 2: when when is that farm four quote is you know what?
Speaker 2: You know what, I'll be too hard on it. That
Speaker 2: sign this is July left over six months ago. There
Speaker 2: we go. I just didn't take it down. Makes sense.
Speaker 2: Sure it air tight, air tight. He's out there. You
Speaker 2: know he doesn't like the crowd. The crowd doesn't like him.
Speaker 2: Apparently it was like the whole world doesn't hate He
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, no, just the Greater Metropolitan area because
Speaker 2: he's buying up these these I guess small being a
Speaker 2: small town right outside the city right established, he's buying
Speaker 2: up this land. He's a real estate guy. He's he's
Speaker 2: he's kind of lex and Bruce Wayne, now yeah, land
Speaker 2: and he is he's the Donna verse like Sluper and
Speaker 2: he's Bruce. He's a lot more Bruce Wayne here than Doliver,
Speaker 2: Queen of our universes. Well, was it just me or
Speaker 2: did you that building in the background did it look
Speaker 2: like the like, I know, I know what you want
Speaker 2: you're talking about. It's like the Wayne Tower. Likely, but Oliver,
Speaker 2: like he really does love this loss and he's like,
Speaker 2: why me? You know, it's the lowest. He's like, because
Speaker 2: you're like you're a good man. He said, well there's
Speaker 2: better people out there, Like, well there is, I haven't
Speaker 2: found him. So that's that's an interesting undercurrent, Like yeah,
Speaker 2: they're together by default because this Clark is evil.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, totally, Like it's well it's and it's so
Speaker 3: interesting because it's like I think about that stuff all
Speaker 3: the time as a hopeless romantic, you know, like the
Speaker 3: butterfly effect thing, you know, of like if this thing
Speaker 3: happens and that thing happens, and is this a sign
Speaker 3: from the universe? And then I meant to be with
Speaker 3: this perer you know, like like that whole thing, And
Speaker 3: so I think it's really interesting to see it in
Speaker 3: this context of like the alternate reality, and it makes
Speaker 3: you think about like just in life, you know, like
Speaker 3: ex girlfriend, like what in our alternate reality will we
Speaker 3: be together? Or what I be with someone else entire
Speaker 3: you know, all that kind of stuff. It's like, uh,
Speaker 3: that's one of the cool things about sci fi. It
Speaker 3: can you can really related to life in that way.
Speaker 2: No, that's the funt of all these alternate you know,
Speaker 2: infinite possibilities, right, so you know, every every choice you
Speaker 2: make creates a branch and who knows where how different
Speaker 2: your life would be. That that's the certain thing about
Speaker 2: some of these I mean, honestly, some of these alternate
Speaker 2: universes where it's like he gets really close to like
Speaker 2: our life. He gets like, you know, if everybody's making
Speaker 2: different choices, like it'd be radically be unrecognizable. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel bad for this off because like, hey, I
Speaker 2: really too love you, and most is like, oh, like
Speaker 2: and you can tell that he likes her? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: totally to always tell everybody you can always So they're
Speaker 2: about to kiss and then Clark super Speeds are away.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that surprised me. I forgot about that
Speaker 3: moment and I was like, whoa like cleric? That was
Speaker 3: like I was applauding his.
Speaker 2: Actually using a luther like tactic to get what he
Speaker 2: wanted for the scene, you know, like because he calls
Speaker 2: Oliver on the phones and the mirror Boxing Possession, give
Speaker 2: it to me, text me the address Lowis will be fine.
Speaker 2: So he's it's an exchange. He's like on exchange Lois
Speaker 2: for the yeah for the horror box. Right, And this
Speaker 2: is a really great scene between Lewis and uh Clark here.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that scene. Actually, that scene, no joke,
Speaker 3: it made me tear up a little bit. That scene
Speaker 3: when he's when he's explaining, you know, you're a terrible speller.
Speaker 3: You misspell normal words that are free, alarming.
Speaker 2: Alarming words.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's saying all the different things about her
Speaker 3: that he loves, and like, I could just I could
Speaker 3: really relate to that scene. And it was a great moment,
Speaker 3: you know. And then with his you know, with his
Speaker 3: final line about I can't live in a in a
Speaker 3: world where you don't love me, I was like, oh
Speaker 3: the fels emotions, my emotions. And it comes back so
Speaker 3: full circle at the end with that moment with the
Speaker 3: two of them when she's the only one who can
Speaker 3: can tell I'm me and she looks in his eyes
Speaker 3: and sees it.
Speaker 2: Like such a beautiful moment, absolutely, and she has this pipe,
Speaker 2: but she's gonna use against him. Hey, she's not going
Speaker 2: now without a fight, right. She thinks he's gonna kill her, right,
Speaker 2: but no, it's it's a beautiful scene where he's trying
Speaker 2: to convince her like you can see, you know, you
Speaker 2: can know what I'm lying. You don't tell the truth.
Speaker 2: Then he leaves that great line like you said, ah,
Speaker 2: and then that probably leaves her like, oh, I'm stuck
Speaker 2: with Oliver Queens. I want this Clark because clearly, clearly
Speaker 2: she she knows, like you know, she's settling for Oliver Queen.
Speaker 2: I think they communicate that. Yeah, it's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: you're a good guy. I mean you know, yeah, it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like yeah, it's like it's it's the did you
Speaker 2: ever watch the show How I Met Your Mother? I
Speaker 2: know of it.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, there's a whole thing about like this
Speaker 3: modelogue about like the the thing that's just the almost
Speaker 3: the thing you want, but it's not one hundred percent
Speaker 3: the thing you want in a person.
Speaker 2: And it's like that's her and Oliver here, you know.
Speaker 4: There it is.
Speaker 2: But you know the show that they just keep hanging
Speaker 2: on that little Olliver thing, finding ways to work it in.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Oliver, he has sent Clark the location for
Speaker 2: the exchange and it's currently the watch Tower. So cool
Speaker 2: because we have that set. I mean, like, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna I'm not gonna complain about it because it makes
Speaker 2: the whole switch root great at the end and all
Speaker 2: that stuff, like the fact that there's no reason for
Speaker 2: them to be in the same building.
Speaker 3: Fine, it's fine, but you know all buy it, right,
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, well, and what was cool to
Speaker 3: this this scene and connecting it also with the last
Speaker 3: scene with the with the roof, Like I like this
Speaker 3: whole kind of switching roles with you know, in the
Speaker 3: alternate universe, like switching roles with Lex in a way
Speaker 3: where like in like when he's on the roof with Lois,
Speaker 3: from Lois's perspective, at first, thinking it's ultraman, right, it
Speaker 3: seems like we're going to get what would be a
Speaker 3: traditional iconic Lex and Lois on the roof scene, which
Speaker 3: we know ends traditionally with him pushing her off the roof, right,
Speaker 3: pretty little.
Speaker 2: Thing called Lois le But then instaid we get the
Speaker 2: superman in Lewis, you know, and taking a BVS like
Speaker 2: this is very BVS with all of her, like you know,
Speaker 2: front Clark is the mysterious ultramat of a Trumples, Like
Speaker 2: this is totally a trap that Batman would set for
Speaker 2: one hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when he says that about I've had all these
Speaker 3: all these mouse traps around the around the city for
Speaker 3: your waiting for your rat ass to show like, it's yeah,
Speaker 3: very very Batman.
Speaker 2: Totally, Like I love his line about Ultramann. That name sucks,
Speaker 2: by the way, so funny. It's such an Oliver things.
Speaker 2: Those those things are what separate Oliver from Batmanda like that. Yes,
Speaker 2: Batman wouldn't say something funny, would not say that for
Speaker 2: that chat. Right. So he's like, look, my eyes in
Speaker 2: the sky from from Lois is safe and I don't
Speaker 2: know anything about your box. And I was like, why
Speaker 2: is he lying to him? What's the dealer? Did he
Speaker 2: double cross? Yeah? Because Clarkson, why Breebier then, because I've
Speaker 2: been waiting for years to get Ultraman face to face.
Speaker 2: And he turns the watchtower window into a Kryptonite cool window. Uh,
Speaker 2: And it's it's great and I really like it. And
Speaker 2: I think all the actors are so on point in
Speaker 2: this episode, Like like Justin Harley is like I believe
Speaker 2: him as like more jaded like Oliver Queen, Like he
Speaker 2: is Oliver Queen still, but he's got a different energy
Speaker 2: to him. I think everybody, everybody's doing a good job.
Speaker 2: Just just adjust in a couple a couple of notches
Speaker 2: for these alternate versions of themselves where you're just it's
Speaker 2: they're recognizable, but they're just not them quite themselves like
Speaker 2: that completely. And he's been hunting Ultraman since he murdered
Speaker 2: the Swans. So there you go. This is the Veritas
Speaker 2: family all which that accounted for.
Speaker 3: That's like if it's like, you know, that makes sense
Speaker 3: in this universe, right, like that that's what ultra Man
Speaker 3: would do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, would send him to do that. Yeah. It's like,
Speaker 2: but Ultramate, he probably really ultrama probably killed your parents, Oliver.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you know, but that's okay, but that's how
Speaker 2: he found out, uh what culture Man's weakness was. So sure, great,
Speaker 2: I am on board with everything you're saying here. So
Speaker 2: he's uh loading up a gun, not a kryptonite gun,
Speaker 2: but just the gun.
Speaker 3: But okay, which, yeah, kind of kind of strange, but
Speaker 3: but I guess I guess they have enough. He has
Speaker 3: enough Rypton eight. There, it's doing the job.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: He's he keeps trying to like reason with Olivers, like,
Speaker 2: oh he's maniac and he's delusional. It's like, well, it
Speaker 2: makes me feel better about being the enemy of small.
Speaker 2: This is how he explains like buying up this Land
Speaker 2: to get Metea Rock. I'm like, it makes perfect sense, totally. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like if I like in the cod books, if you
Speaker 2: reset it or whatever, like and I had a Ground
Speaker 2: one Superman story, be like, yeah, there'll be a meteor
Speaker 2: shower in Smallville and there would be a plot where
Speaker 2: at some point Luther Korp comes to buy up Smallville
Speaker 2: to get meteor Rock. Exactly. It makes total sense. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it makes sense.
Speaker 3: It's like all over it, Like it makes sense with
Speaker 3: Alliver his character in general, right, like the Oliver that
Speaker 3: we've seen you know on Earth one too, that he
Speaker 3: has more of an end justify the means mentality, which
Speaker 3: is like, you know, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna buy
Speaker 3: these you know, these businesses, and some people might you know,
Speaker 3: lose their land and this and that, but it's worth
Speaker 3: it because obviously the world saving the world from ultramat.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, then then Oliver makes a person Guilois it
Speaker 2: you took her away from me. She only knows my
Speaker 2: secret supports me. I'm like, okay, so it's it's got
Speaker 2: a little personal Yeah, because he stole his wife from
Speaker 2: his engagement party. Someone I really get the BBS. She's
Speaker 2: like I believe in justice and oh yeah, I can
Speaker 2: see him monologuing too. Superman totally was the blueprint here.
Speaker 2: But were you also thinking of Dark Knight? What do
Speaker 2: you believe? Of course? Yeah, of course. And then Oliver
Speaker 2: braids him in He's like, with all your powers, you
Speaker 2: know how much good you could accomplish? We could have
Speaker 2: made a hell of a team, right.
Speaker 3: Which was really cool because it's also the classic Lex
Speaker 3: and Clark thing only turned now well also true, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Oliver and Oliver. Oliver is his melting pot of Lex
Speaker 3: and Bruce together here. And then last ditch effort and
Speaker 3: I actually, I don't know if I remembered this and
Speaker 3: mouthed it with the lion or I knew it was
Speaker 3: coming because I watched them on television and fiction. But
Speaker 3: Clark's like, you're not a murderer, and Ali's like, but
Speaker 3: you are, like, ah, there is And then out of nowhere,
Speaker 3: Lionel shows up with the.
Speaker 2: Pipe so badass. That was fantastic. This is the most
Speaker 2: physical we've seen Lionel, Like, I'm not the Lionel. You
Speaker 2: knew a later episode he just listen this guy. He
Speaker 2: got worried he didn't get where he is but not
Speaker 2: getting his hands dirty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he reminds you of his in both universes
Speaker 3: that he would have grown up on suicide, you know,
Speaker 3: suicide salum and everything. Right, he had to he had
Speaker 3: to have got his hands dirty, He had to kind
Speaker 3: of probably know how to fight, you know, like and
Speaker 3: like a skinny, you know, intellectual dude like Lionel. He
Speaker 3: probably had to like extra learn those things, right because
Speaker 3: he could have, you know, gotten killed on the streets
Speaker 3: right right, So this is you see street Linel come out.
Speaker 2: It's but he's like, I've been monitoring Oliver Queen's activities constantly.
Speaker 2: You should have known I would be doing that. And
Speaker 2: it's like the mirror box, Oh you mean this, He's
Speaker 2: like he had it the whole time. He's like, your
Speaker 2: betrayal has been staring me in the face. That couldn't
Speaker 2: ad been and it makes sense why. But what I
Speaker 2: find so interesting here is like he's basically well because
Speaker 2: Clark's like, just let me go and you don't have
Speaker 2: to worry about me, He's like, worry about you. All
Speaker 2: I done is worry about you. I like, so like,
Speaker 2: I love that he's he's felt like he's been trapped
Speaker 2: trying to keep this alien monster in check.
Speaker 3: It's interesting, right, Yeah, It's like it's like as as
Speaker 3: evil as Lionel, as as this Lionel is, like John
Speaker 3: Glover still makes that moment a little bit human, you know,
Speaker 3: like you can kind of understand, you know, it doesn't
Speaker 3: justify any of the horrible things he's done, but you
Speaker 3: can kind of understand it from his perspective that he
Speaker 3: feels like he's the one who's trapped, like in a way,
Speaker 3: like he's like scared, as much as he would never
Speaker 3: admit it, that he's actually scared of ultra man like,
Speaker 3: of this of the monster that he's created that he's
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make him like any way, like, but it's
Speaker 2: an interesting layer. So what you know, it's like, to
Speaker 2: John Glover's point about the writing here, like more two
Speaker 2: dimensional the Lionel had been in the later season, so
Speaker 2: that that is the more dimension that I give it
Speaker 2: credit for. And yeah, I'll let you kill Lex, your
Speaker 2: own brother, my son so good, which which it gives
Speaker 2: them so much more motivation for when he does go
Speaker 2: into Earth one. You know, he's not getting Lex back,
Speaker 2: He's not just going over just to do evil things.
Speaker 3: He's also trying to get Lex back, and so that
Speaker 3: right gives him another little human motivation.
Speaker 2: Like absolutely, but then he got like he was. He
Speaker 2: starts kicking him. Oh, I've always been afraid of you, Clark,
Speaker 2: your power. He takes his belt to the belt starts
Speaker 2: beating him.
Speaker 3: That was my favorite, one of my favorite moments of
Speaker 3: the episode because it just really was like, dude, like
Speaker 3: this Lionel is brutal, and he's and like it takes
Speaker 3: the whole, Like I love how they took the whole
Speaker 3: abusive father, you know, that trope of the belt thing,
Speaker 3: like the old school abusive father, because we're so used to,
Speaker 3: you know, mentally abusive Lionel, Like there's nothing mentally he
Speaker 3: wouldn't do to f with you, you know as a kid.
Speaker 2: But physically abusive. We've seen that just a little like
Speaker 2: in Fracture when he you know, in a memorial and
Speaker 2: what have you done? You know, like, but this was
Speaker 2: like whoa dude? Seeing him beat his son with the
Speaker 2: belt was that was that was And as he's you know,
Speaker 2: beating him down, he's like, no true luthor would have
Speaker 2: let me live this lot And it's it's true. It's
Speaker 2: true dead in our universe.
Speaker 3: It's what I killed him, and and and and it
Speaker 3: made me think back to uh in Dissent when he
Speaker 3: has the little smile on his face when he's falling
Speaker 3: from the window, like he's kind of that's interesting. Of
Speaker 3: course you you would have that different interpretation of that
Speaker 3: than me, because I always see it as like the
Speaker 3: Obi one Kenobi's smile in Star Wars and he dies
Speaker 3: like he knows it's gonna be okay because Clark's gonna
Speaker 3: stop him or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like that's what I saw it. We'll see redeemed Lionel.
Speaker 4: I I I.
Speaker 2: Interpreted it as both. I think it's both.
Speaker 3: I think he I think it's redeemed Lionel, happy that Clark,
Speaker 3: that he dies protecting Clark.
Speaker 2: But at his core, I don't. I don't think that
Speaker 2: you could ever. I don't think he could ever change
Speaker 2: so much, even if he's luisoned. Oh man. I like
Speaker 2: the ambiguity though, and that's something that's some of the
Speaker 2: of course Jungle were probably brought to it that probably
Speaker 2: wasn't even in the script. It's probably interesting because if not,
Speaker 2: if you just throw a body off window, it's not interesting,
Speaker 2: Like you need to see that what is what is
Speaker 2: his what is going through his mind?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: It's a mystery to the end. That seems like a
Speaker 2: very Glover touch. I'm going to eat this peach who
Speaker 2: peaches that way? John, Those aren't apples. It's fine, it's fine.
Speaker 2: But this He's like, I am the most fit, I
Speaker 2: am the survivor. I'm like, I'm like, damn all right,
Speaker 2: Like he has beaten the hell out of cug Luthor
Speaker 2: and then all who have been overhearing all this turns
Speaker 2: off the kryptonite. And then uh, then Clark what a
Speaker 2: ball or movie. He's like, hey, thanks to the advice dad,
Speaker 2: but he has the box. Like you never hear these
Speaker 2: one lighters from Clark.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 2: I know it was flex. It was great.
Speaker 3: That was such a great moment. And then of course
Speaker 3: plus one for throwing someone across the room, right, all right,
Speaker 3: I did knockout right.
Speaker 2: But then I was like, yeah, yeah, I heard, you're
Speaker 2: the good one. And he's Oliver listened to me like
Speaker 2: when you when you when I activate this box, lionel
Speaker 2: Son's gonna be in my spot. You gotta turn that
Speaker 2: thing on and you gotta kill him and it's like, sadly,
Speaker 2: obviously it didn't go well because as we find out later,
Speaker 2: like he killed Oliver Queen, right, So this is what
Speaker 2: So this is what makes me think of mirror mirror,
Speaker 2: and I recommend you like the original Star Trek work.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much of it you watch, but
Speaker 2: we'll seek it out the end of that episode. So
Speaker 2: that's what's so interesting about this one because we see
Speaker 2: what both sides are doing on that episode of Star Trek,
Speaker 2: like in our universe, like Spock puts them the brig
Speaker 2: and mainly and there's not a story there, but here,
Speaker 2: like where Clark Luther's doing stuff, our Clark's doing stuff.
Speaker 2: The end of that episode, Captain Kirk is talking to
Speaker 2: the spot from the universe. He's like, listen, He's like,
Speaker 2: you you can be the difference in this universe. You
Speaker 2: can choose to make a difference and change.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So the idea is like he inspires that guy to
Speaker 2: turn things around, much like Clark here is inspiring all
Speaker 2: of He's like, he's like, you know, you said you
Speaker 2: wish we could have saved the world together. In my
Speaker 2: world we do. I'm like, oh man, Like it's it's
Speaker 2: so good, Like it's that was such a great feels moment.
Speaker 2: It was like you need it because you were beat
Speaker 2: you're beaten down as much as Clark gives in this episode. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a this is a really dark episode. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh man, but but gosh, I'm like, oh no,
Speaker 2: did he not turn onsen it off? Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: it's like, we know that doesn't end. Well, that makes
Speaker 2: it even more tragic. Yeah, maybe maybe there's a different encounter,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's not this one, but this seems
Speaker 2: like this would be the time when yeah, Clark, when
Speaker 2: Ultraman showed back up and and killed uh killed Oliver
Speaker 2: Queen here unfortunately. Yeah, so we see Clark stand up,
Speaker 2: he starts turning the box and you see Lione like no,
Speaker 2: he's running. I'm like, oh, I know what's gonna happen
Speaker 2: because we knew, we knew John Glover was gonna be
Speaker 2: back from multiple episodes right now. People love how they
Speaker 2: don't spell it out.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say when I saw this episode, I
Speaker 3: don't think I knew he was gonna be back for
Speaker 3: multiple because I remember that the ending of this episode
Speaker 3: made me like get up and cheer it because I
Speaker 3: was so excited. I was like, oh cool, Like so
Speaker 3: I don't think I knew, and I was like, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, yes, they're gonna have him back.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. But it's like you see him running and
Speaker 2: then you see the three sixty and you don't really
Speaker 2: know what's going on. But we so we've talked about
Speaker 2: this before, right, So like people switched places with the
Speaker 2: other universe body of them. Right, yeah, So man, dude,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think we've talked about this before
Speaker 2: I lived. But like in my head canon, this Lionel
Speaker 2: was in Lionel's grave and then he pulled a killer
Speaker 2: and duve himself up through the ground. Right, How bad
Speaker 2: ass is that? That's such a oh my gosh, I
Speaker 2: love that chilled I've never thought of that, but that
Speaker 2: is that. I guess. The only way it works is
Speaker 2: because it's like a cheap coffin, because like, like you know,
Speaker 2: like if you really start no pun intended digging deep
Speaker 2: into how this is going to happen, Like I don't know,
Speaker 2: like because it's a it's a pine box. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's a bad ass. He's room on the streets, like
Speaker 2: no dude, No, that's my head can. No, Linel was
Speaker 2: trained by Pie obviously, and then his his skeletal corpse
Speaker 2: appeared in that room when Clark switched by that that's
Speaker 2: my head cannon. Now the loophole is, well, he touched
Speaker 2: Lark and Clark was of the mirror. But then where
Speaker 2: did he go? Like, that's where did he go? Where
Speaker 2: he And that's my head canon. That's my head can dude.
Speaker 2: I think that's awesome. I love this.
Speaker 3: And then Lionel just like walks across it covered in
Speaker 3: dirt like uma to the restaurant and then instead of
Speaker 3: asking for a water, he asked for like a Chardonnay
Speaker 3: or no for a Scotch, for a scotch.
Speaker 2: Oh man, uh but no, we see we see Clark
Speaker 2: back in our universe and the Watchtower is completely trashed.
Speaker 2: Tests and Oliver and Lois all have weapons on him.
Speaker 2: We got some kryptonize. Good thing, Chloy mantle those Kryptoni
Speaker 2: weapons to fight the Cantarian. They're about to kill him.
Speaker 2: I think they got him dead to rights, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's got a Oliver has a crypt I know. I
Speaker 2: was like, say good night or whatever, and no, wait wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: it's me, Lowis, tell tell it's me. He look into
Speaker 2: my eyes and Lois and a lot of the fandom
Speaker 2: has made a big point about this, Okay, ye, yeah,
Speaker 2: Lois versus can tell the difference between Ultraman and Clark
Speaker 2: when Lana could not tell there between Clark and Mazaro.
Speaker 2: So that's why they're meant to be. There's a proof.
Speaker 3: It's such a great it's such a great point, right,
Speaker 3: It's like they have that soul connection.
Speaker 2: She can see it right in his eyes. And then
Speaker 2: everybody kind of looks at each other and all right, Okay,
Speaker 2: still couldn't get in touch with us of Justice League,
Speaker 2: but at least great Arrow, So we kept the commercial.
Speaker 2: We come back. Lois is a at the hospital, but
Speaker 2: it's it's a quick at the hospital. She's just kind
Speaker 2: of it's not a room. It's like the waiting area
Speaker 2: with all the beds of the R room whatever. But
Speaker 2: it still counts of course. Oh yes, self awareness, because
Speaker 2: I was like, man, the amount of times I've signed
Speaker 2: one of those charge forms, and lucky for us, the
Speaker 2: planet's got great coverage. I thought that was a really funny,
Speaker 2: funny line. But you're deductibles through the roof. I bet right.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, something like that. So they're self aware, right,
Speaker 2: And I love again the playfulness here. He gives us
Speaker 2: some flowers and she's like, what are these for? He
Speaker 2: says nothing, says sorry, my dappa anger tried to kill
Speaker 2: you like flowers. I think there's a card for that. Well,
Speaker 2: they were out, like it's these human back and forth
Speaker 2: are so important. I think he established these relationships.
Speaker 3: Right, totally, totally, and especially when you you see any
Speaker 3: any time that they really get to show Clark and
Speaker 3: Lewis being playful together in the later years, is like,
Speaker 3: I really like that, you know, because that their whole
Speaker 3: relationship started with playful banter, even if it was like
Speaker 3: I don't like you or whatever, but it was still
Speaker 3: like playful banter, you know. So I like that.
Speaker 2: I like when they keep that, when they keep that going,
Speaker 2: because it can get like the show can get so
Speaker 2: serious with all the saving the world, all the dark
Speaker 2: things happening and stuff, that it's fun to see those
Speaker 2: moments in between. She does drop a he wasn't you, Clark,
Speaker 2: But I'm I don't think that's what You're not yourself,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not going to count that as you're not,
Speaker 2: because it's he really was a different person. It wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he does say that. I mean he's like, it still
Speaker 2: was me in that mirror, right, and the way you
Speaker 2: looked at me, Lewis, you know, it calls back again,
Speaker 2: like you know, the I can't live in a world
Speaker 2: where you don't love me, right, yes, totally. Now he
Speaker 2: says he destroyed the mirror box. We'll never be seeing
Speaker 2: him again. We know that's not the case. Something we'll
Speaker 2: see when we get the Kent. What kind of techno
Speaker 2: babble they say how it worked for Clark. We've finally
Speaker 2: come back over here. But anyway, Oh yeah, I forgot
Speaker 2: how they how they pulled that off. Yeah, well we'll
Speaker 2: find out. Always on the smudgle uh. Because Clark's like, man,
Speaker 2: he was a monster. I was a monster, right, because
Speaker 2: he realizes, you know, Lionyl. This is when it just
Speaker 2: goes into his conversation with Test about Lionel. Maybe this
Speaker 2: way and this is where Lowis drops that makes you
Speaker 2: wonder how earth to lois Lane managed to put up
Speaker 2: with such a colossal tool. He doesn't he doesn't tell
Speaker 2: her like, oh, we weren't together, you were wearing all over.
Speaker 2: He just he's like, over that, we're not gonna I
Speaker 2: don't want to refan those flames, right. But he's like, eh,
Speaker 2: but I bet you give him another chance. And she's like,
Speaker 2: you don't have to worry about a second chances with me.
Speaker 2: You're doing great with the first chance right here. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I love it. That's so cute. I love that. Now,
Speaker 2: technically this is like his eighth chance with her basically,
Speaker 2: but that's okay, you know, you know what I mean
Speaker 2: for all the failing launch situations. Yeah, but it's it's
Speaker 2: very cute. They leave the hospital together and she likes
Speaker 2: her flowers, and it's it's just, I'm really, do you
Speaker 2: guys have known the journey I've been on with Clark
Speaker 2: and Lewis on this show. But I am one thousand
Speaker 2: percent on board and they have really sold me on
Speaker 2: this and I am one hundred percent team Clois. I
Speaker 2: love team Klois. And this reminded me.
Speaker 3: It was interesting, like again, all these callbacks we've been
Speaker 3: talking about, Like, there were two little things that reminded
Speaker 3: me of with this scene with Lois and Clark, Like
Speaker 3: the flowers in the hospital reminded me of a rival. Oh,
Speaker 3: she just takes the flowers and then yeah, and then
Speaker 3: she's like, no, no, it's okay, there for there for
Speaker 3: her whatever, like like, but I always thought that was
Speaker 3: like like a cute little moment back then of like
Speaker 3: foreshadowing with the two of them, you know, and uh
Speaker 3: and also also kind of calling back to season three
Speaker 3: with Clark being like I can't bear for you to
Speaker 3: ever look at me that way again to Lana when
Speaker 3: he read Clark, you know. So it was just cool
Speaker 3: to see those like different parallels. But how it's like
Speaker 3: now this happier thing with low is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So let me cut to Luther mansion and Test
Speaker 2: has some some photos all spread out. She has a
Speaker 2: promotional photo from hot Head of John Glover. She's got
Speaker 2: a picture of the baby Lex actor from the first
Speaker 2: couple episodes of the season. And then I assume a
Speaker 2: picture of young young Cassidy Freeman here, I don't I
Speaker 2: didn't recognize it. So then just random other pictures and
Speaker 2: this this is my point from earlier brok no lx no,
Speaker 2: Michael Rosenbaum Lex right, yeah, yeah, like where why would
Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense? What are we doing like like
Speaker 2: in the season nine finale picture of him on the paper, right, yeah, President,
Speaker 2: I'm like you can use these, yeah you it's I
Speaker 2: don't know how much the license rights likeness rights work here, but.
Speaker 3: I yeah, but I would you would think they would
Speaker 3: have because the character was on the show for seven years.
Speaker 3: You would think they would have like perpetuity rights for
Speaker 3: old picture with me.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, she's just we wallowing in her
Speaker 2: sorrows here and a family history. And then Clark shows
Speaker 2: up and he's uh to make up for what he
Speaker 2: said earlier, like Luthor blood is poisoned. Sorry I said that, right.
Speaker 2: This is a really good scene between the two of them.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. So we've we've seen this like sexual chemistry
Speaker 2: between in this episode and yeah, it's like it's just
Speaker 2: just platonic care chemistry between them and and uh yeah
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a great scene for Clark and test.
Speaker 3: I really loved the scene too. I thought it was
Speaker 3: a great a great moment to see them bonding. Uh
Speaker 3: it like you said, in this platonic way after we
Speaker 3: saw the sexual with Ultra Man and Clark's whole point
Speaker 3: about like you know, when he says that to test
Speaker 3: about I was wrong. It wasn't Luthor blood, it's the
Speaker 3: man himself that corrupts.
Speaker 2: Which which yes, that's the message. But like, I feel
Speaker 2: like they unintentionally kind of undercut the whole redemption arc
Speaker 2: for Lionel here. I was wondering.
Speaker 3: I was, I was gonna ask you what you thought
Speaker 3: about Like like it's like, I know he's talking about
Speaker 3: evil line o, but yeah, it still kind of feels
Speaker 3: a little bit like you know, he's forgotten about that
Speaker 3: because he's like, well, I mean because Test is upsetting,
Speaker 3: Like you know what the worst weirdest part about it
Speaker 3: all is is I'm upset he threw be away, right yeah.
Speaker 3: And Clark's like, well, you know, Lionel raised tests over
Speaker 3: there in her life is a lot worse, so you
Speaker 3: know they're not okay.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, well you don't. I don't know
Speaker 2: who's to say, right, who's to say? But totally it
Speaker 2: totally tracks. It totally fits. I also like how Clark's
Speaker 2: is wearing like a gray sweater. I'm like, it's like
Speaker 2: Season one, normal person Clark close, Oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2: That's like he's not wearing a blue jacket. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just a normal person Like, yeah, god, yeah, I've missed
Speaker 2: I've missed season one. Normal person Clark close you know
Speaker 2: you know what I mean though, because you know season
Speaker 2: it goes up to about season three, all right, then
Speaker 2: after that, no more normal clothes up this guy. Yeah
Speaker 2: unless he's in like actually this season. But you know
Speaker 2: they're making up a little more with you know, it's
Speaker 2: civilian ware. But you guys, you know what I'm saying. Yes,
Speaker 2: Tess is like, you're lucky either the kids found you,
Speaker 2: and Clark just said, you know, they didn't find me.
Speaker 2: I found them. That would have been great. And then
Speaker 2: he just said, you know, actually my biological think we
Speaker 2: said a couple hours ago he was here in the
Speaker 2: sixties and he really liked it. But anyway, this is
Speaker 2: a good bonding scene, like they hold each other's hand
Speaker 2: and Clark's like, look, I'm gonna be there, Like I
Speaker 2: think that's the thing with they are the positive outcome
Speaker 2: of what could have been between Lex and Clark.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, totally totally the the Luther and Clark, you know,
Speaker 3: Luther and Superman team up right, like the tests, like
Speaker 3: you know, like Lex having her intelligence, her resources, and
Speaker 3: that really is like I think still to this day,
Speaker 3: like if Clark told season one through three Lex, I
Speaker 3: think that's where they'd be.
Speaker 2: At the end, you know. And if they weren't both
Speaker 2: in love with LTA, that was probably if they were.
Speaker 3: If they weren't, even if they were, they probably would
Speaker 3: have ended up like Lexmith's where Clark's like, okay with
Speaker 3: lex beiing with her, you know, yeah, like think it's.
Speaker 2: Like maybe, and then Tessa's you know. The one of
Speaker 2: the big reasons I kept Alexander's secret is I was
Speaker 2: afraid that he might be the closest thing to a
Speaker 2: family I would ever know, just sad, yeah, totally no,
Speaker 2: where are your family?
Speaker 3: You know, I'm like, all right, that's great moment. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: and it was also really interesting how how how ominous
Speaker 3: the ending of that scene is after it was so heartwarming,
Speaker 3: But then there's that you know about Alexander could be Yeah, like.
Speaker 2: He's just as smart as Okay, you're trying to build
Speaker 2: up this criminal genius from the comics. He wasn't before, right,
Speaker 2: I think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3: Which yes, I was thinking, Okay, that's thinking of the
Speaker 3: original plan, that that's that would have made total sense.
Speaker 3: Oh right, you're right, Yeah, you're right, because this is
Speaker 3: super Boy.
Speaker 1: This is.
Speaker 2: He's smarter than Lexlithor that's super Boy, tell you that's hey.
Speaker 2: We we live in a world where Superboice is smarter
Speaker 2: than Lex Luthor. And Oliver Queen killed Lex leu All. Yes,
Speaker 2: when Oliver Queen killed Lex Luthor, Oh my goodness. And
Speaker 2: that leads us to our final scene, Brocup, potentially the
Speaker 2: best final scene of any episode of small Boy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's strong words, I know. Yeah, it's definitely in the
Speaker 2: conversation because the headline, the blur saves under scrutiny because
Speaker 2: of the you know, Vigilante Registration Act that's supplogging on
Speaker 2: the season. And then the paper comes down it's a
Speaker 2: line a Luther.
Speaker 3: Such this moment every time I watch it like chills,
Speaker 3: and I'll never forget how excited I was when when
Speaker 3: this first aired, and you just the reveal of him
Speaker 3: with you know, his gloved hands, which is a very
Speaker 3: lex thing too, you know, the gloved hand.
Speaker 2: It's like boom, his faith and.
Speaker 3: Very like I said, the fourth wall break, you know,
Speaker 3: it's with all of his all the Shakespeare elements in
Speaker 3: this episode like King Lear. You know that uh the
Speaker 3: fourth wall break you know really comes from Shakespeare. Like
Speaker 3: Richard the third was one of the first where he's
Speaker 3: not just doing a soliloquy on stage to himself. He's
Speaker 3: literally looking at the audience and he's a villain who's
Speaker 3: you know, sucking the audience into his orbit, right, And
Speaker 3: so I was thinking, Ah, that's a great Richard the
Speaker 3: third moment.
Speaker 2: No, that's that's a Lara. I hadn't thought of it before,
Speaker 2: but you're right, you're he's like if there's, if there
Speaker 2: was ever gonna be a character and an actor that
Speaker 2: break the fourth wall in the show. He's a guy. Yes,
Speaker 2: I got I got a shout out to the to
Speaker 2: the to the newspaper worker, the newspaper stand guy, Joe Maffei.
Speaker 2: This is his fourth episode as basically the newspaper stand
Speaker 2: coffee vendor guy. So I remember he's in a few
Speaker 2: episodes and so the good Audi sir. He was also
Speaker 2: in one episode of season one as a janitor. So anyway,
Speaker 2: he's he's been just around.
Speaker 3: I thought he looked familiar from all previous episodes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's I just like his I like his like he
Speaker 3: just has such a normal guy persona. It's just like
Speaker 3: it's a It makes for an interesting clash with like
Speaker 3: the universe, like the story we're in. You know, he
Speaker 3: just seems like.
Speaker 2: Such a normal guy. Oh, I haven't ever seen you
Speaker 2: around you know well, I mean don't I know even
Speaker 2: sort Yeah, dude, it's like Donald Trump buying a newspaper
Speaker 2: from me. What are you talking about you?
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I was gonna say that the
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is exactly the metaphorm.
Speaker 2: Even if he's been dead for three years, I would
Speaker 2: recognize maybe that's right. But anyway, he's like, but anyway,
Speaker 2: so he's like, I'm from out of town, unexpected visit.
Speaker 2: Like every every line he says to her is and
Speaker 2: I would try to use in my every day.
Speaker 3: And of course I'm sure this happens to you as
Speaker 3: it does to me all the time. Like I'll say
Speaker 3: those things and and and no one knows what I'm
Speaker 3: talking about, right, I'll do it in the voice too,
Speaker 3: you know, and like and and and they just stare
Speaker 3: at you. And it's like if if someone responds by
Speaker 3: actually knowing, I'm like, that's how you know, Yeah, there
Speaker 3: we go.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's raining, there's umbrellas everywhere, you know.
Speaker 2: He takes a moment, you know, and he's like, guess
Speaker 2: I'm backing the niked time and he just takes in
Speaker 2: the rain and he looks dead into the camera. He says,
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to missenter. All turns out, and then he
Speaker 2: opens up the umbrella and he fades into the crowd,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's brilliant, Like he doing out there,
Speaker 2: so so good. It's not talking about himself, He's talking
Speaker 2: about season ten of Smallville, the whole series, Like this
Speaker 2: is the most medal line of all time ever, ever,
Speaker 2: It's like it was.
Speaker 3: It was just See, this is why I love being
Speaker 3: on the show, because I know, even though you and
Speaker 3: I didn't know each other back in the day, we
Speaker 3: were experiencing the exact same thing together, you know, like
Speaker 3: as this show was on, like the same feelings and
Speaker 3: geeking out over it. I don't know if you if this,
Speaker 3: if you thought of this too, but every time I
Speaker 3: see that moment where he disappears into the crowd, I
Speaker 3: always think of.
Speaker 2: I'm having an old friend for dinner, Clarice. That very,
Speaker 2: very may well have influenced that, but it's just the
Speaker 2: fact that this evil is out there, Anonymous, dangerous. It's
Speaker 2: it's incredible and just like smallA had never done a
Speaker 2: fourth Wall break up, never never, Yeah, No, this is
Speaker 2: the only one. Yeah, And that's why it's so amazing
Speaker 2: and it's and it's and that's and that's why I'm
Speaker 2: like this should have been the mid season finale, you know,
Speaker 2: like I don't care how all the superheroes got knocked
Speaker 2: out and they're in the Matrix. I mean whatever, that's nonsense.
Speaker 2: This is what I'm here for, like here for Lex
Speaker 2: Luthor things. Yes, yes, they really if they left it,
Speaker 2: it really is the perfect cliffhanger.
Speaker 3: Like literally Lionel stepping out of the fourth to the
Speaker 3: Fourth Wall to tell us that we shouldn't.
Speaker 2: It turns out very street eenchanti they said, he wanted.
Speaker 4: Lem So what are you matter, super Mad? And what
Speaker 4: if my soulmate comes along and I'm too blind to
Speaker 4: see it? Just follow your heart and you'll always do
Speaker 4: the right thing, Oh Mad, you can past life.
Speaker 2: World needs your quirk.
Speaker 4: What about what we need? Man need it.
Speaker 2: Said this sweet set, Who are you? Lois? Lois my
Speaker 2: three pas?
Speaker 4: Just you're more than just a hero. They're superhero.
Speaker 2: Give me a nerd with glasses any day of the week. Whatesome,
Speaker 2: something dark is coming.
Speaker 4: You're gonna be tested like you have never been tested before.
Speaker 4: Sweet Jessy, I know my destiny.
Speaker 2: Smallville season premiere next Friday at eighty seventh.
Speaker 4: Central New One, Blue ray and DVD.
Speaker 2: This is where it's all been leading you become.
Speaker 4: That's great to say it.
Speaker 2: More than two hours of special features the final season
Speaker 2: of Small Tale on Blue ray and DVD November twenty
Speaker 2: nine and on the Complete series collection on DVD. Luther
Speaker 2: got an eight point six out of ten on IMDb
Speaker 2: and Douglas Trouble from the Superman homepage go to four
Speaker 2: out of five. So on the letter grade scale, Brokay,
Speaker 2: what would you give Luther? Oh? My gosh, A plus?
Speaker 3: I mean this is come on, this this episode is
Speaker 3: It's as though they, the the showrunners and every writers
Speaker 3: and everyone knew me personally and they and they gift
Speaker 3: rapped it for Christmas for me.
Speaker 2: I am right there with you. I'm gonna give it
Speaker 2: an A plus as well. This is one of the
Speaker 2: most enjoyable episodes of not just the season, but the series. Yep,
Speaker 2: you heard us going on fun continuity rants, right, but
Speaker 2: those are all part of it, right, But you're so right.
Speaker 2: Like mentioned earlier, we'd been talking about what what if
Speaker 2: episode of Litel fell and Clark right and like, and
Speaker 2: they did it, and they nailed it. Like there's nothing
Speaker 2: more frustrating when like they give you what you've been
Speaker 2: waiting for and it's not not yes, yes, or it's
Speaker 2: like almost but it doesn't quite stick the landing, like
Speaker 2: you know, but this one, you can play what if
Speaker 2: all day long? Oh what if my girl's mom was here?
Speaker 2: They could have brought in a lot or what about
Speaker 2: the kids? Like yeah, yeah, but the story they're telling here, yes,
Speaker 2: past being the kind of the through line sort of
Speaker 2: like that it works so well, so so a plus
Speaker 2: for I needed this in season ten. I have been
Speaker 2: kind of like, oh eh, like this one was like
Speaker 2: a lifeboat for you in seasons ten, it's a shot
Speaker 2: on the arm. It's a shot on the arm for
Speaker 2: season ten, we'll put it that way. But oh man,
Speaker 2: let's get to the tally board short tellyboard. We have
Speaker 2: amazing technical or cryptonite plus one for the blue Krypton
Speaker 2: kite that we see Clark and Litel fight with so
Speaker 2: that brings us to twenty one. Wow, and we have
Speaker 2: a plus one for hospital visit. We have one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty two. I don't think we're gonna get to
Speaker 2: two hundred. I'm shame I predicted. I predicted two hundred
Speaker 2: back in the day when when we talked about this,
Speaker 2: I mean, we need, we need a lot of people
Speaker 2: to the hospital last half of the season. But uh,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that's that's gonna for the tally board. And
Speaker 2: you know what, I just want to throw this out there, Okay,
Speaker 2: the the monogram jacket. Right, we're ten episodes in how
Speaker 2: many how many episodes do you think we've seen that thing?
Speaker 2: Has he worn it? I'm gonna say at this point seven,
Speaker 2: Now you you would think yeah, right, four. Really it's
Speaker 2: just there's not He's fairly warring it. What's the point
Speaker 2: of this costume? I'm I'm saying my old runner is ten.
Speaker 2: I'm taking the under you know, for the season because
Speaker 2: I'm like why anyway, you know my stance about the
Speaker 2: trench coversus the jack in this That's why I'm made
Speaker 2: in so on category to prove my point, Like, if
Speaker 2: you're gonna be in this like seven times and twenty
Speaker 2: one episodes. Why did we even change That's my point, Yes,
Speaker 2: exactly exactly. It's a short tally board, so I wanted
Speaker 2: to point that out. That's that's so true. Like with
Speaker 2: the tally board too.
Speaker 3: I wanted to point out even though it's not in
Speaker 3: this episode, you would think maybe it would be, but
Speaker 3: it's a few episodes down the line with either Beacon
Speaker 3: or what the what's the one? I think it's the
Speaker 3: one after that Lionel appears. Oh, Scion, Yeah, and Scion,
Speaker 3: I think so. I was gonna say, it's gonna finally
Speaker 3: after years of no opera, it's gonna be a plus
Speaker 3: one for Linel listening to opera again.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, where he's in the where he's in the office.
Speaker 3: Yes, and he's he's technically listening to the same opera,
Speaker 3: Costa Diva, that that one that he heard in season
Speaker 3: five when it's you know your secret.
Speaker 2: Is safe with me? Well, he just pulled out the CDs.
Speaker 2: He was reading Lionel's daily journals listening to a CDs. Yes,
Speaker 2: daily daily journal. Think it was a little weird writing
Speaker 2: in a journal, Dear Diary, Martha kitt theyde I contact
Speaker 2: with me today. Oh my goodness, so good. Bechdel Test
Speaker 2: faster fail tests and lowis talk. But it's about evil Clark,
Speaker 2: so I think fail, right, it would be a fail.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's not like relationship talk, but it's it's about Clark,
Speaker 2: about Clark, so we're gonna we're gonna call it a fail.
Speaker 2: All right, man, Well, this has been fantastic. Obviously, couldn't
Speaker 2: do this episode with anybody but you. Thanks has always
Speaker 2: spend the time to come on the podcast, tell us
Speaker 2: about what you're working on now where people can find
Speaker 2: you out there online.
Speaker 3: Awesome, thanks man, it was such a pleasure of being
Speaker 3: here for this one. Yes, I'm as always working on movies.
Speaker 3: Shot a feature film over the summer called Morte and
Speaker 3: as the title probably suggests, it's a horror but a
Speaker 3: lot of dark comedy too. And right now I'm in
Speaker 3: the process of editing, actually just edited the rough cut
Speaker 3: last night. Hopefully we'll have it released by Halloween, so.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for that.
Speaker 3: You can, you know, find me on Instagram and Facebook,
Speaker 3: Matthew Rocca, and I'm constantly self aggrandizing and promoting, so
Speaker 3: you can find any of your related stuff there too.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, you'll be back before it's all said
Speaker 2: and done this season. So yes, we celebrate. As we
Speaker 2: celebrate the final season.
Speaker 3: I can't believe that we're finally that we're finally here,
Speaker 3: that you're finally here. Man, all the wait, when did
Speaker 3: you start the podcast?
Speaker 2: It was, what year? Twenty sixteen? Sixteen?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think I think I discovered you around
Speaker 2: then or maybe twenty seventeen, but yeah, it was because
Speaker 2: then we start talking about the Covenant and the music
Speaker 2: and yes, yes.
Speaker 3: Twenty okay, yes, yes, yes, that's right, that's right. Oh
Speaker 3: yeah it was okay, I just yeah, no, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: You've been You've been on quite a journey doing a single.
Speaker 2: And uh and let me tell you, man, you wouldn'tant
Speaker 2: to miss that all turns out. So stay tuned. We'll
Speaker 2: be back next week talking about Icarus. But until then,
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