Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to
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smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for
your support. Alrighty, so, who's ready for some tariff talk? Tariffs?
Are you worried about the tariffs? Are you worried about
this thing that's happening as of today and now the
markets are not responding? Well, is this a problem? Is
this going to be a problem? Sounds it seems like
it's going to be a problem. Okay, So you've got
Donald Trump that he had, you know, threatened these tariffs
against Mexico, Canada and China. China. The tariff on China
is an additional tariff that Trump had put on like
four years ago, left on by Joe Biden after he
ran a campaign savaging Trump for the tariff in the
first place. But now that tariff has been increased okay,
those tariffs have been increased, and so now you've got
these three countries that are responding. And one of the
data points I saw was that this is essentially going
to mean roughly one thousand dollars per person, well a thousand.
Everybody is basically almost one thousand dollars poorer because of it,
just overnight, because of the increase in the prices of
all of the things that now are going to have
more tariffs on them, higher taxes. Basically it's gonna I mean,
there's not going to be a a line item, like
you're not going to be able to check out and see, oh, okay,
here's the local tax and the state tax or whatever.
It's just going to be basically built into the cost
of the product that you are buying, because that's how
tariffs basically work, right, They slap the tariff on it,
and then that price increase just lives inside the price
as it proceeds from you know, from the container ship
through to the retail establishment or the online establishment if
that's where you're getting it from. So China has now
responded with its own tariffs against our products. This is
what a trade war looks like in case people aren't aware.
This is what a trade war. This is how they start.
Tariffs get slapped on each other, and people's you know,
wealth is reduced, people's purchasing power is reduced. I have
said I am not a fan of tariffs. I think
there should be you know, an equalization. I feel like,
you know, free trade is that free trade doesn't mean
you slap tariffs on our stuff so we can't sell
into your country, but then you get to buy all
of our stuff, you know, at cost. Like that's not
free trade, right. Fair trade is free trade, that's you know,
fair is fair. So if we're selling stuff into Canada
and you want to tax you know, certain things going
into Canada, that's fine. Like I feel like there should
just be a universal like a flat tax, if you will,
a flat tariff. Now there is an argument. The Founding
fathers talked about this. They called them infant industries. So
if you are trying to get an industry up and
running in your country and you want to protect it
from outside competition, you know, let's say you want to
you know, have a you're making widgets, and it just
so happens that the Canadians are really really good at
making widgets, and they dominate the market in Charlotte in
America for widgets, and you're trying to now compete with that.
And the government believes that having a widget industry might
be important, and so they would protect your infant industry
with tariffs against the Canadian widgets. Right, So I understand
that argument. I think you would have to take it
on a case by case basis. But here in lies
the problem is that these case by case analyzes for
different products and services and sectors and industries has created
all sorts of different numbers depending on what it is
that you're selling. And what Trump has argued is that
this trade imbalance that if we are, you know, we're
running a trade deficit, that that's unfair. I don't think
it is automatically unfair. Just means that we are buying
more stuff than we are selling to another country. Now,
maybe that's partly due to tariffs. That might be the case.
I don't know if it's if that accounts for all
of it, but I think Trump looks at a trade
imbalance or a trade deficit as evidence of some unfair practice.
And I don't know that to be true. I really don't.
I don't and honestly, like, I don't think that's true.
Now Trump has argued with Like I saw he was
at some was it like the Wall Street Journal editorial
page editor or something like that, and he was at
some conference that the Wall Street Journal did. I want
to say it was before the election, and they were
talking about tariffs, and you know, Trump made the comment that, oh,
you've been wrong about tariffs for thirty years or something.
So this is obviously something that Trump, you know, has
thought about for a long long time, and this is
his philosophy when it comes to these tariffs. Now, a
lot of people, myself and cclude believe that Trump was
using the tariffs in order to extract concessions, better deals
or or you know, help in you know, combating illegal immigration,
combating the the fentanyl coming across the border, and so
in that regard, then tariffs or the threat of tariffs
can be used effectively. The problem is that if they
don't do what you want, and you've threatened to do
the tariffs, and then you have to put them in
place lest you be seen as not following through on
your threats. Now you've started the trade war, and it's
easier to start these things than it is to end them. Usually.
Now maybe you know, maybe that that will be different
this time. I don't know. I cannot tell the future.
Nobody can. So right now you've got you know, the
market reacting because they're all trying to predict what's going
to happen. You know, it's all speculative, and so these
predictions are now driving the anti Trump media and their narratives,
and you know, the Democrats are, you know, making these
arguments that you know, Trump is has started a trade
war and now we're all going to be poorer, and
he's this is going to be the biggest tax increase
because the number I saw was something like three hundred
to three hundred and fifty billion dollars in essentially tax
increases for these imported products, right, stuff that that we
are normally buying and will now be more expensive. And
so it's essentially a three hundred to three hundred and
fifty billion dollar additional tax and when it comes, you know,
and here's the problem I think that that Trump and
the people who support what he's doing. Here's the problem
that I think they're going to have is their defense
of the tariffs seemed to be well, just don't buy
out of seasoned fruit and vegetables. And I'm not sure
that's a winning argument, you know, politically speaking, I don't
think that's going to convince people who are like, you know,
I'm used to buying you know, seven different kinds of
fruits and vegetables, and now I can only access too
once a year or twice a year. Now that's like,
that's what like, that's the argument that's getting made is,
you know, this is a tax on everybody, the largest
tax increase overnight and in I think history maybe, But
and then the response is basically suck it up, buttercup.
And I'm not sure that's a winning argument. Now. The
other side of this, see this is the problem with
economics is that this is why Reagan said he wanted
a one armed economist, because they always talk about on
the one hand and then on the other hand, you know,
So the other part of this is that when the
cost of the imports becomes too great, it will then
inspire production and manufacturing domestically to serve that demand. In
other words, supply will be created in order to fulfill
the demands of the local population. And this is particularly
I think important when it comes to things that are
national security related. Right, Like me personally, I don't think
it's a great idea to not be able to manufacture
steel because if we are reliant on countries, particularly those
that don't like us very much, to send us all
of those materials if we ever need to ramp up
for a war footing thank you Zelenski. Oh, but we
have a development on that front too. If we need
to ramp up production for certain mission critical materials, we
are unable to do so domestically, and I feel like
that's a problem. Right, So this is like, this is
why this whole issue, it's not a simple issue. And
anybody that's telling you, whether it's the President or his detractors,
if they're telling you that, like, oh, it's easy, we
just do this and then you know, this easy thing happens,
it's not that easy. It is not There is a
lot of nuance in gray area here that well, for
my entire adult life, I recall the left always telling
me that that's how I should view things, and that
the right was being, you know, too black and white
on this stuff. But now it seems like everybody is
into the false choices of you know, just black and White.
He's either a putent lover or he gives Ukraine. You
know troops like, No, there's there are way more, way
more options available. Okay, So talking tariffs, what do you think?
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memories that'll last a lifetime. Let's go over and talk
to Sean. Hello, Sean, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Pet.
Speaker 3: How you doing? Bove?
Speaker 2: I think Hayk talk to his new year. So i'mna
wish you a happy new Year. I'm a good guy,
all right.
Speaker 1: Well, happy new Year to you too. Hope it's going
well for you so far.
Speaker 2: If I get up every day, I'm breathing everything. Just ware, brother.
Speaker 3: I don't let anything stress me out.
Speaker 2: But let's talk about dum tom So twenty sixteen. He
got an office, said he had a bad deal. Bill
Clinton did a bad deal. He gonna come in here
and change it around, so he make a good deal.
Now he said it's a bad deal. So I think
that's on him. I mean he's a great as all
his voters said, he's a great deal maker. I guess
the deal that he did in twenty twenty wasn't great,
so now he just start another deal.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you're talking about the United States Mexico
Canada Agreement, the us MCA that was like July of
twenty twenty. I don't think so. First off, he has
never said that the deal. No, he has never said
that that deal was a bad deal because he did it,
so he's not going to say that was a bad deal. Right,
So what what they have talked about is the slapping
of the tariffs on Canada and Mexico. He has tied
to border enforcement and the fentanyl trade.
Speaker 2: The trade, so we just putn't sitting on it. But
the daility did in twenty twenty was great. But now
we're going to do another turf tax on because of
the fit trade.
Speaker 1: Well that well, look you can believe you can believe this,
you can believe what he's saying or not. I would
guess that you don't believe it. But the he has
not like there they haven't been connecting anything that was
negotiated under the USMCA with this latest round of tariffs
because they did there. I mean, they they did all
sorts of stuff under the USMCA, they basically, you know,
revive NAFTA, which look, for whatever you think about the USMCA,
NAFTA was done like you said, under Bill Clinton, that
was you know, thirty years ago, and so like all
of those deals should be re examined. I feel like, right,
I mean, that's just that just makes sense because industries
get stronger and all that. So I have no problem
with going back and reviewing a foreign trade deal to
see if it still makes sense and maybe it needs
to be adjusted. And when they were done with the USMCA,
most all of the sides were happy with it. It
seemed like everybody was on board and that was fine.
But now this has been he has he has made
the argument that our our borders are not secure and
therefore they need to be helping us better than they are,
and so he's using the tariffs in order to try
to get them to do more. Now, whether that's whether
that's the truth or not, I don't know, but that's
what they've been saying.
Speaker 2: Well, this is my point. This guy is small if
he doesn't get his way, like it happened Friday. He
didn't get his way, so he throws that off. Then
he throws something else in the American people. He's throwing
so much in American people. And the thing is people
don't realize it. And you know, I feel for both sides,
for everybody. What he's doing with the government, killing all
the job for the government. Says, if you listen to
some of them people they help, veterans, they helped when
veterans call in, they listen to them. Veterans called in
to help them out so they won't commit suicide anything.
He's cutting a lot of stuff that really helped people
who really needs to help.
Speaker 3: So all these voters like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cut the government, cut the government. When people start
committing issues about why they didn't have any kind of help,
then you blame them dumb.
Speaker 1: So Seun let me ask you, do you think that
do you think that that any of the government should
be cut based on what these doge guys are finding?
Speaker 3: Well? What what what I've seen?
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody has their point of view, but what
I've seen is people who go to work every day
they get evaluated. Some of them just got on and
got to valuate all of us being good of course,
and any job.
Speaker 3: There's gonna be bad.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be bad people there, so you of course, but.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's what I was asking. So like you
understand like that there is a benefit to going into
the federal government and seeing just like we talked about
with the trade deal, right making revisions because something maybe
somebody doesn't need to be in this position any longer.
Maybe some of this money was being sent overseas to
scam artists, and that should be something we identify, right, Like,
so we're okay with the concept. So your your beef
is with the way it's being carried out in a
way that is uh that that is like firing some
people that are doing work that you think is uh
is valuable.
Speaker 2: Is that it there's valuable, and and and then and
then and their job is it's great. I mean you
know why you find the guy up in and give
you promise that. I mean, he's find anybody who does
not agree with him, anybody who does not agree with
with the with with y'all king, and with y'all king.
If you does not agree with him, he's gonna fire you.
That's not how they run the country.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're gonna have to give me some You're
gonna have to give me some specific example of that.
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, simple example. The guy in New York,
the head guy in the federal government, the FBI up
in New York. Hey, we want you to we want
you to resign.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what you want to got to
resign for?
Speaker 2: If he had no if there's no issues.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, okay, well okay, so hang on
right there. There there were there were issues.
Speaker 2: Okay, the issues that didn't agree with with the king.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no. Like the big the thing
that got him in the most trouble that got that
forced them to, uh, you know, ask for his resignation
was when they said, turn over all of the all
of the Epstein uh information, and he apparently he apparently
did not. And and the guy has made all sorts
of politic he's also made Yeah, well, well now they've
got it. So now they say, now they have gotten
all of the thousands of pages that that were withheld
from the Attorney General Pam Bondi when she initially asked
for it. So like that's the and he had made
all sorts of political statements and stuff. But here's the
other thing, and Sean, I gotta let you go because
I'm way late for the news. But the other thing
is that that post is you work at the pleasure
of the president, and so he can do that. He's
he's the chief administrator in the executive branch for which
you work, so he can do that if he doesn't
like the job you're doing. All right, if you're listening
to this show, you know I try to keep up
with all sorts of current events, and I know you
do too, And you've probably heard me say get your
news from multiple sources. Why well, because it's how you
detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed
with ground News. It's an app and it's a website,
and it combines news from around the world in one place,
so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can
check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash Pete.
I put the link in the podcast description too. I
started using ground News a few months ago and more
recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because
it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and
by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories
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use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature.
Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it
also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape
more transparent. Back to the phone lines, I will go,
and here is Mike. Welcome to the show. Hello Mike, Hello.
Speaker 3: Again and again, I am sorry. I was not able
to hold on yesterday when we talked. Uh, you were saying,
I'm a whole through the news, and as soon as
you said that, then the morn through the appointment came
through the door. I heard them coming through the door,
so I wasn't able to do that. I tried to
call back and say I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: No, that's all right now. I understand from what I understand,
people have lives outside of listening to this show. I
have made my piece with that, so it's okay. It's
totally fine.
Speaker 3: They're not nearly as worthy though we best we can
when we're away from the radio. You know, we do it.
We do our best, you know, Uh, And there's always
a podcast. There's always a time.
Speaker 1: That's true. The peapod dot com listen.
Speaker 3: To the podcast last night to see what I missed, and
we came back on. We somehow got on. We were
talking about the Vilensky meeting and the meeting prior to
the meeting, but somehow we got onto the Russian hoax
and not saying that it's any but a hoax. You
were saying, oh, no, it is a hoax. We kind
of got sidetracked from that, and we can talk for
more about that. But you also wanted to talk about tariffs,
and there's also a new statement from which is also timely,
and I will let you choose, sir.
Speaker 1: Oh, I get to pick what the caller wants to
talk about. Oh, this is interesting. Yeah, well, so you
mentioned Zelenski's and I mentioned also that there was an
update on that story as well. I have the statement. Yeah,
it's pretty lengthy. Let me just I'll go to the
last two paragraphs. He says, our meeting in Washington at
the White House on Friday did not go the way
it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it
happened this way. It is time to make things right.
We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.
Regarding the agreement on Minerals and security, Ukraine is ready
to sign it in at any time and in any
convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward
greater security and solid security guarantees and I truly hope
it will work effectively. So and just as a side note,
I will I will say I started there was a
program last week where I started off by saying, in
Trump in the Trump era, I have found it best
to give it a minute, like because the immediate reaction
from people who hate Donald Trump and from people who
love Donald Trump is to immediately rush to their corners
and start making the arguments that one would expect. And
if you just wait a minute or two now obviously
not like sixty seconds, but if we just give it
a minute, we will see what the truth actually is
and whether the play works. And it's so, what is
do you think that this play worked with Zolenski.
Speaker 3: I mean he's wanting to keep the volume. You can
make a sports analogy. I guess the task valley going.
He's going to hit it back over the net and
see what happens. And to further that analogy. The old
phrase is the ball is now and the presidence court
President Trump, and we'll see how the response comes back.
I think that will say a lot about which side
he is on, or I should say, now which side
we are on? Because you know, it certainly seems that
American foreign policy and America's standing in the world has
been turned on its head in the last six weeks
and especially the last you know, several days, and we're
now on the side of Russia.
Speaker 1: No, that's all the town. No it's not by all accounts. No, see,
this is what I but this is what I mean.
You are viewing this through a particular lens, right, and
so to you it looks like Trump is putin Trump's
in the pocket of Putin or whatever. And I'm looking
at this from a negotiation standpoint that whatever my feelings
about Donald Trump are set aside, is this going to
get the two parties to the table to negotiate some
sort of a peace deal to stop the war. And
in Yester or Friday when the meeting happened, it wasn't
clear to me whether that would occur. And for a
variety of reasons, right, because I don't know, like like
I would advise Trump should take this win. He should say, yes,
we are willing to do it, and we'll sign it.
Just go And by the way, Zelensky doesn't need to
he can just sign the thing. He doesn't have to
come here again, he doesn't have to do anything. Just
sign the deal. And then Trump needs to be magnanimous
and he needs to just accept it that he wanted
and he has done that. By the way, right, he
welcomes people back in after they've crossed him. Look at
Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, Right, So he heard somebody say
he has the thinnest skin in politics and the thickest
skin in politics at the same time. So he'll he'll
welcome people back in. So if Zelensky signs the deal,
then I think that's that's a good thing. That's a
think that would be progress, right and so and so.
So the question that I have for you then would be,
are you willing to entertain the notion that maybe your
read on this was incorrect, and maybe your read that,
uh that his behavior is proof that he's in Putin's
pocket or whatever, that that was incorrect.
Speaker 3: I am willing to say I'm incorrect. Any old time
and look at.
Speaker 1: But on this right, but but on.
Speaker 3: This my question though question no, no, no, hang on,
hang on?
Speaker 1: Are you are you willing to even entertain the idea
that your your analysis that that Trump is in with Putin,
that that was incorrect and that the deal that was
on the table was specifically for the minerals and Zelensky
could have signed it and this never should have happened.
But now it's like, okay, well then well then there's
no deal. Right, So it that that the blow up
at the meeting was not proof of what you thought
it was proof of.
Speaker 3: That's a great question. And the way I have to
answer that question is to make ask myself a question,
which is what pressure the present putting on Vladimir Putin?
Because I've seen zero that's not responsive. What else do
you want? Bladimir?
Speaker 1: I'm happy that's not responses you're just making You're just
making up stuff, Mike, You're just making up stuff.
Speaker 3: Can you tell me any pressure that he's put on?
Speaker 1: But Mike, you are filling in gaps with some sort
of preconceived idea of a conversation that you that happens
to just wine up with what you already prior believe.
So that's that it's not responsive. Are you willing to
entertain the idea that that you're incorrect about this association?
It doesn't seem like you are, because you're willing to
fill the gaps in of your knowledge.
Speaker 3: I'm certainly willing to entertain that notion.
Speaker 1: Yes, more discussion, right, But then you said, but now
you're wondering if he's having these convers that you have
no proof of with Vladimir Putin asking him what should
I do? And licking his boots like that, But there's
no evidence of that.
Speaker 3: Just discussion. Me, I go to a break. I don't
want to hold us over. I'll stay over a few wants.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll put you on hold. Mike, all right,
I'll put you on hold. I just asked the question.
Are you open to the idea that you're incorrect, that
your analysis was based on a prior bias? That's all
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So before the break, we were talking with Mike, and
I'll give you another I'll give you another shot at
the question that I asked Mike, and maybe after you
had you know, four minutes, five minutes to think about it,
Is it possible that is it possible that you were
wrong about whether or not Donald Trump is taking orders
from Putin on this whole Ukraine deal. Considering what the
President of Ukraine just came out and said.
Speaker 3: I will answer it like I did the first time,
which is absolutely I could be wrong, and I'm willing
to entertain that based on the evidence that I'm seeing.
Part of the evidence I'm seeing. This is what I
was trying to explain, is Okay, Yes, he has gotten
Zolensky to come and you know, hit the ball back,
stay in the game and hit the ball across from that. Well,
they'll put it now in the President Trump's court. Right,
So we got that accomplished. But my question in terms of, like,
so whether I'm wrong in terms of what Donald Trump's
endgame is, you look at other evidence too, And I asked,
I asked myself the question. This is what I said
before the break, which is what evidence is it is
there that he's putting on. I can't see any, but
what I can see is a lot of things that
putin loves in terms of trying to weaken the support
for Ukraine. He's now announced he's stopping any additional funding
for any defensive Ukraine, at least for right now. He's
already turned, he's already he's doing exactly what Putin wants
in terms of splitting up NATO and putting what used
to be our allies, we're now on the other side.
Speaker 1: We're now we're not on the other side. No, that's
not true.
Speaker 3: But well tell back to the Europeans.
Speaker 1: They think, no, we're not on the other side. The
Europeans say they're going to quote step up now and lead,
which is what Donald Trump has been telling them for
eight years, right. He has been saying that you guys
need to spend more for defensive Europe, right, And we're
not going to keep putting in more money and more
troops than you guys are, and we're trying to end
the war. And the and the Europeans they're actually funding
both sides through their purchase of all of the oil
from Russia. So like it seems like their incentives are
aligned to keeping the war going. And so what Trump's
moves have done is to force Ukraine's hand. Now, you
said you're you're willing to entertain the a different opinion
based on the evidence you're seeing, But you haven't seen
you haven't seen any evidence of Trump saying I'm gonna
do what Putin wants. You're inferring that because the Kremlin
is saying, oh well, yeah, good on on Trump for
you know, sticking it to the Ukrainians. But is there
keep this now? Put think this through? Is it possible?
Is it possible that it might yield better results for
a negotiation to get the stronger power, which is the Russians,
to get them to come to the table if you
are not seen as an adversarial biased mediator, Right, wouldn't
it be a bet? Isn't that a better tactic to
try to get two people that hate each other to
sit down and mediate If one of the parties thinks
that you're on the other guy's team, they're not going
to be interested in having you be the guy that
mediates the disagreement.
Speaker 3: Right, correct? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right? So is it possible that the reason he is
he is refraining from saying all of the bad things
about Russia is because he needs Russia to engage as well.
We know the Ukrainians will engage. They want the war
to end. Theoretically I will take them at their word
for that. So he knows that we can do a
deal with them on the minerals that keeps US, that
keeps American economic interests in Ukraine. And it doesn't give
them NATO membership. So if that's what has been the
hold up in Russia thinks now that Trump is a
more even handed, impartial mediator, then they come to the table.
Doesn't that make sense from a strategy standpoint?
Speaker 3: Obviously, see what you're saying. I that could be a possibility.
I think it's a better possibility, Peepe, based on what
I'm seeing and what has happened in the history here,
that what Russia is aiming for is on their terms.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, well that yeah, Mike, and yeah, and
I gotta go. I agree they want peace on their terms.
There's no doubt about that. That's why you have to
have a negotiation. And maybe it doesn't work like that's
the thing. Maybe it doesn't work at all. I am
way late for news, though I appreciate the call. Thanks
for making it all right, that'll do it for this episode.
Thank you so much for listening. I could not do
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Speaker 3: HM,