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Speaker 1: You know, when we look back at history, especially at

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the huge conflicts like World War One or World War Two,

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it often feels like they just erupted out of nowhere,

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sudden catastrophic events.

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Speaker 2: Right like a storm appearing on a clear day. But

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when you actually dig into the archives, when you look

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at the context leading up to them, a different picture emerges.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. It's less like a sudden storm and more like,

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well like the final violent collapse of a building whose

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foundations have been cracking for years, a long, slow motion process.

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Speaker 2: It really is, these major conflicts, they seem to be

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the culmination of stresses building up across society socially, economically, politically,

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and often the warning signs those cracks in the foundation

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they get missed.

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Speaker 1: Why is that? Is it because people are too focused

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on other things.

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Speaker 2: Often, yes, especially during periods of rapid progress. Think about

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new technologies, economic booms. Everyone's excited about the latest invention,

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the rising stock market, dazzle of the new precisely, and

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that can create blind spots. Societies get distracted by the

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surface level shine and they don't notice the deeper structural shifts,

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creating widespread insecurity or resentment bubbling underneath. It's a kind

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of historical myopia.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's our goal for this deep dive. Then

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we're going to use history almost like a diagnostic tool.

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We'll take the sources we have and compare three really

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critical moments in time.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We're looking at the period leading up to

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nineteen fourteen, the years before nineteen thirty nine, and crucially

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the world we find ourselves in right now.

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Speaker 1: And the big question is are we seeing the same

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kinds of patterns, the same precursors to instability across across

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what we're calling the four key dimensions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the four lenses social, economic, political, and military. We

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need a holistic view because cherry picking historical parallels is easy,

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but it could be really misleading, ken it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, you can find one similarity and use it to

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push any agenda exactly.

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Speaker 2: So the idea is to look for stress fractures across

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all four of these pillars simultaneously. If we see widespread

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systemic stress across the pl well, that's when history really

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signals that we need to pay close attention.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's start with the first lens, the social dimension.

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The sources seem to suggest this is often where the

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earliest maybe deepest signs of trouble appear. How technology, even

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the good stuff, can breed insecurity.

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Speaker 2: It's a paradox, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Think about the late nineteenth early twentieth century, the Bell

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epoch on the surface of Golden.

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Speaker 1: Age, right, the Second Industrial Revolution in full swing, electricity

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lighting up cities, mass production, telephones becoming common, the first

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cars rolling out. It must have felt like living in

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the future.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely miracles of engineering. But underneath that shiny surface, massive disruption.

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Think about the impact on work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't just losing a job, It was the

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whole nature of work changing. Right. You go from being, say,

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a skilled craftsman, master of your trade, or a farmer working.

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Speaker 2: Your own land, to being a worker on an assembly

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line governed by a clock, doing repetitive tasks, easily replaceable.

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That's a huge psychological shift, not just an economic one.

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It's a loss of autonomy, of identity almost.

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Speaker 1: And the sources detail this displacement, don't they Machines replacing

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workers and factories, but also new farming techniques pushing people

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off the land.

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Speaker 2: Yes, huge numbers of people moving from rural areas into

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cities that often weren't prepared for them, overcrowding, poor conditions,

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and this builds immediate resentment, resentment against the factory owners,

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against the machines, against the whole system that seems to

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have uprooted their lives.

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Speaker 1: So you've got this growing massive people feeling insecure or

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feeling like they've lost control. And then at the same time,

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the traditional anchors are weakening exactly.

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Speaker 2: The authority of old institutions, monarchies, established churches is being

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questioned like never before. So the things that gave life

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structure and meaning are shaking.

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Speaker 1: And what fills that void When work feels precarious and

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the old authorities.

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Speaker 2: Are crumbling, ideology rushes in, often extreme ideology. The sources

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highlight the rise of powerful mass movements. You see radical

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labor unions on one side, demanding systemic change, and on

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the other increasingly aggressive nationalist leagues, both feeding on fear,

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fear that progress is actually destroying society's foundation's family, faith nation.

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They offer simple, powerful answers, a sense of belonging and

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certainty in a world that suddenly feels very uncertain and threatening.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's pre WWI. Let's jump forward to the

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interwar years the run up to World War Two. Does

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that pattern of technological anxiety continue?

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Speaker 2: It does, but it sort of evolves. The insecurity is

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still there, absolutely, but it starts getting expressed more symbolically too.

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It's fascinating, isn't that The word robot literally enters the

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language in nineteen twenty one from a.

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Speaker 1: Play right, capturing that deep seated fear of being replaced,

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of human obsolescence.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't just science fiction. You had major economists

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validating these fears. We mentioned John Maynard Keynes. Yeah, in

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nineteen thirty he talks about this new disease, as he

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called it, technological unemployment.

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Speaker 1: And he wasn't just talking about a temporary downt was he.

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Speaker 2: No, he was warning about something structural, that automation, the

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sheer speed and scale of it, could permanently outpace our

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ability to create new kinds of work. Imagine hearing that

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during the Great Depression. It tapped right into people's deepest

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anxieties about their future.

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Speaker 1: But maybe the biggest technological disruptor of the twenties and

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thirties wasn't robots, but communications, radio, cinema, mass newspapers.

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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely transformative. These weren't just entertainment. They fundamentally changed

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public discourse. They enabled propaganda on a scale that was

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simply impossible.

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Speaker 1: Before, creating echo chambers, amplifying fears.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, echo chambers were anxieties about the economy, about immigrants,

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about changing social norms, could be magnified and spread rapidly.

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And the sources show a really strong cultural backlash during

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this time too, from traditionalists. Yes, people deeply worried that

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modern culture, think jazz music, flapper dresses, changing family roles

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was literally eroding the moral fabric of society. Religious and tradition,

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family values all felt under attack.

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Speaker 1: And when people feel their culture is under siege from within, they.

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Speaker 2: Become much more susceptible to politicians who promise to restore order, purity,

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and national strength, often by identifying internal enemies and external threats.

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It primes the pump for aggressive authoritarian politics.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us inevitably to today, we're living through another

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massive technological revolution AI, the Internet, social media, smartphones in

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every pocket.

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Speaker 2: It's reshaping everything how we work, how we communicate, how

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we get information, maybe even how we think. And the

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anxieties they echo the past, but maybe feel even more

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intense because the pace is just relentless.

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Speaker 1: You see it everywhere, Psychologists debating what constant screen time

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is doing to kids' brains, huge debates about privacy surveillance, and.

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Speaker 2: The forecast about AI causing large scale job losses aren't

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just theory anymore. We're seeing it start to happen, affecting

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not just manual labor, but white collar jobs, creative foreshions,

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plus things like deep fakes, eroding trust in what we

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see in here.

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Speaker 1: So what's the key difference now compared to say, the

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nineteen thirties. Is it just the speed?

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Speaker 2: Speed is a huge part of it. Yes, Today's technologies

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don't just spread ideas globally, they amplify everything. Frustrations, fears,

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divisions almost instantaneously. A local incident can become a global

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flashpoint online within.

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Speaker 1: Hours, meaning resentment and polarization can build much much faster

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than before, faster than institutions can possibly respond exactly.

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Speaker 2: The feedback loops are incredibly tight now. So if we

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step back and look at these three eras PREWWI, pre WWII,

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and today, the historical lesson seems pretty clear and frankly

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quite disturbing, which is rapid technological change even when it

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brings benefits consistently, seems to generate deep psychological insecurity, resentment,

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and uncertainty, and this creates a fundamental vulnerability within society

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of vulnerability too to extreme ideologies. When people feel the

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ground shifting beneath their feet, when they feel their identity

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or security is threatened, they become much more open to simplistic,

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often aggressive solutions. Historically, this disorientation has made society's fertile

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ground for militarism, sometimes using external conflict as a tool

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to forge unity at home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the social pressure cooker, that internal stress.

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Now let's look through the second lens, the economic dimension,

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because there's this long held idea, isn't there that economic

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ties interdependents actually prevent war.

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Speaker 2: Ah? Yes, the Golden Arches theory updated sort of the

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idea that countries that trade heavily with each other won't

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fight because it would destroy their own prosperity. We really

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need to.

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Speaker 1: Challenge that, starting with WWI, because that seems like the

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classic case against it.

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Speaker 2: It absolutely is. You have to dismantle that absolute prosperity argument. First,

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the dominant thinking in say nineteen ten was exactly that

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war between the Great Powers was becoming economically irrational, therefore impossible, and.

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Speaker 1: On paper it made sense. Britain was the world's banker,

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the center global trade. Germany was this booming industrial powerhouse,

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It's exports surging.

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Speaker 2: They were deeply intertwined economically. British finance fueled German industry.

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German goods traveled on British ships. They needed each other,

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both the laits the leader. They knew a war would

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be economically catastrophic for everyone, and yet they stumbled into

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the abyss. The WWI paradox is the crucial lesson here,

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and the sources really hammer this home. Economics might tell

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you what's possible, what could be gained through cooperation, but.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't dictate what will happen exactly.

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Speaker 2: Politics, ambition, nationalism, fear, miscalculation. These forces ultimately drove the decisions.

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Economics took a backseat. War is not just about the

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bottom line. It showed that even strong economic interdependence isn't

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a fool proof guarantee against conflict.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So if absolute prosperity isn't the key, what about

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the next layer, the idea of relative power?

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Speaker 2: Right? This shifts the focus for nations especially ambitious ones.

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It's often not enough just to be prosperous. The goal

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becomes being richer, stronger, more powerful than your rivals.

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Speaker 1: It's about the league table, not just your own score.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, it's about relative standing, and this is critical to

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understanding the lead up to WWII. Why did Germany and

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Japan become so aggressive. They didn't see the existing global

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economic system dominated by Britain, France and the US as

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fair or beneficial enough to them.

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Speaker 1: Even if they were getting richer in absolute terms.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because they perceived themselves as falling further behind structurally

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or being deliberately held back by the established powers who

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controlled key resources, trade routes, colonial empires.

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Speaker 1: Japan felt dependent on America for oil and steel. Germany

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felt hemmed in, lacking resources and living space.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, they felt vulnerable because their economic well being seemed

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dependent on the goodwill of rivals. The perception was that

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the existing system wasn't allowing them to close the power gap.

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Speaker 1: Fast enough, So their response wasn't to trade more but

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the opposite.

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Speaker 2: The response was purely strategic shift away from interdependence toward

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self sufficiency. Tarchi and how do you achieve a Tarchi.

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Speaker 1: If you lack resources, military conquest to seize the oil fields,

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the iron mines, the agricultural land you need.

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Speaker 2: Economic nationalism became the direct path to war. Secure your

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own resources, build your own exclusive economic block, dominate your region.

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That was the logic.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now connect that suit today. For decades, the prevailing wisdom,

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especially regarding the US and China was basically the nineteen

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fourteen argument rehashed. We're two interconnected economically to ever fight

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a major war, Chimerica.

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Speaker 2: That assumption has been fundamentally shattered, hasn't it. We've had

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two massive wake up calls.

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Speaker 1: Recently and pandemic.

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Speaker 2: First, yes, COVID nineteen starkly revealed just how fragile global

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supply chains were and the immense danger of relying on

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potential adversaries for critical goods masks, medical equivment, pharmaceuticals, you

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name it.

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Speaker 1: And then Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Which demonstrated the raw geopolitical leverage a country gains when

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others on it for essential resources like energy. Europe's reliance

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on Russian gas became a weapon.

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Speaker 1: So the lesson learned by governments around the world was.

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Speaker 2: That deep economic dependence on arrival isn't just inefficient, it's

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a massive national security vulnerability. It's simply too risky.

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Speaker 1: And the result is this trend we're seeing everywhere now, decoupling,

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de risking, basically prioritizing security over pure economic efficiency.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's a global shift towards trying to achieve greater

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self sufficiency or at least diversified sourcing in critical sectors.

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Think about the push for domestic semiconductor production, securing rare

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earth mineral supplies, bringing manufacturing back home or to allied countries.

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Speaker 1: This isn't just about economics then, its strategy.

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Speaker 2: It's fundamentally strategic. It mirrors that drive towards AUTARKI we

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saw before WWII. Nations are consciously choosing to pay a

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higher price for goods or accept lower efficiency in order

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to reduce their vulnerability to geopolitical rivals.

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Speaker 1: So the big picture here, economically speaking, is a move

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away from the interdependence that was supposed to guarantee peace

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towards a more fragmented, nationalistic and potentially adversarial economic landscape.

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Speaker 2: That seems to be the clear trend, and history suggests

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that when nations start prioritizing relative power and self sufficiency

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over mutual economic benefit. It signals a preparation for a

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much less cooperative world order. Political and strategic calculations are

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overriding purely economic ones.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so social pressures building, economic vulnerabilities widening. That brings

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us to the third pillar, the political dimension. This is

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where we see the actual breakdown of order, right, polarization

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turning into violence.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is about the failure of institutions. Polarization itself

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isn't necessarily the final step. You can have divided media,

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fierce political debates, even legislative gridlock. We see that a lot.

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Speaker 1: There's a line that gets crossed.

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Speaker 2: There is the most dangerous form. The real historical warning

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sign is when political division spills over in to sustained

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organized violence. Specifically when you see armed groups emerging. Because

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people no longer trust the official system, the courts, the police,

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the government to resolve disputes fairly or protect their interests.

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Speaker 1: They decide to take matters into their own hands.

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Speaker 2: Essentially exactly, force becomes the perceived alternative to politics. Look

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back at WWI again. The spark was the assassination of

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Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo nineteen fourteen by.

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Speaker 1: The Blackhand, a Serbian nationalist group. Easy to dismiss as

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just terrorism.

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Speaker 2: But the sources emphasize it wasn't random. That assassination was

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the culmination of years, decades, even of simmering ethnic tensions

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and political violence in the Balkans. The Austro Hungarian Empire

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was already failing to manage these deep fractures peacefully.

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Speaker 1: And the Black Hand wasn't just some fringe group.

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Speaker 2: No, it had documented links deep within Serbian military intelligence.

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So the assassination wasn't just terrorism. It was politically motivated

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violence with at least tacit state backing. It showed that

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the normal rules, the institutional constraints had already broken down.

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It was a symptom of complete political failure in the region,

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which then tragically pulled the whole continent into war.

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Speaker 1: Now fast forward to the Weimar Republic in Germany. Before WWII,

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polarization was.

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Speaker 2: Extreme, extreme and violence was common on the streets. But again,

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look at the nature of the violence. It wasn't just

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street brawls. You had targeted assassinations of key government figures.

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Speaker 1: Like the finance minister Ersberger in twenty one and Foreign

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Minister Rathanow in twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, these weren't crimes of passion. They were calculated political

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acts designed to destabilize the republic, to eliminate leaders associated

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with the Versailles Treaty or with democratic governance. They were

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sending a message, we will use force to remove those

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we oppose.

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Speaker 1: And what made Weimar particularly unstable, according to the sources,

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was the militia problem.

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Speaker 2: That was critical. It wasn't just one side that was armed.

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All the major political factions the Communists read for Viders,

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the social Democrats and Centrists, reichs Banner, the Nazis, Essay

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or stormtroopers, they all had their own paramilitary.

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Speaker 1: Wings, private armies.

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Speaker 2: Basically, essentially, yes, when every political group feels it needs

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its own armed force for protection or intimidation, the state

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has lost its monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.

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That's the textbook definition of a feeling state. Compromise becomes

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impossible when disputes are settled by street fights and assassinations.

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This created the chaos that allowed the Nazis to eventually

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seize total power.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the parallels to today are uncomfortable to say.

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Speaker 2: The least they are concerning. Look at the US. The

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January sixth attack on the Capitol was a direct assault

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on the peaceful transfer of power, driven by contested election results.

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It was political polarization manifesting as direct anti institutional violence.

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Speaker 1: And it's not isolated. Is that the sources mention arise

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in threats and even assassination attempts against political figures across

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the spectrum.

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Speaker 2: That's a crucial point. The political violence isn't just coming

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from one fringe. It's becoming more widespread and reciprocal. The

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idea that violence is a legitimate tool to achieve political

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ends seems to be gaining traction, crossing ideological lines.

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Speaker 1: And this isn't just a US phenomenon. What about Germany today?

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Speaker 2: The statistics from Germany are quite stark. Sources point to

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something like over ten thousand politically motivated attacks targeting politicians, journalists,

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activists over just last five years.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge search and again it's reciprocal.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that pattern is clear. For example, you see attacks

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committed by supporters of the far right AfD party, but

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AfD politicians themselves are also very frequent targets of attacks.

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This tit for tat cycle of violence shows a deep

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breakdown in basic political norms and dialogue.

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Speaker 1: So the historical pattern seems pretty clear here. Once political

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violence becomes normalized, once factions arm themselves or resort to

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force against.

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Speaker 2: Opponents, compromise becomes virtually impossible. The institutions that are supposed

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to mediate conflict lose all credibility. The political order is

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essentially eating itself from within, making the entire system incredibly

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fragile and vulnerable to shocks, both internal.

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Speaker 1: And external, which leads us directly to the final dimension,

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the military. This is where the internal weaknesses potentially meet

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external threats. Right, And it's all about alliances.

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Speaker 2: Exactly because world wars rarely start as world wars. They

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almost always begin as regional conflicts that then escalate dragging

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in other powers because of existing alliances and security commitments.

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Speaker 1: WWI is the classic example again, Austria versus Serbia.

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Speaker 2: Poles in Russia, then Germany, then France, then Britain. A

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Balkan dispute becomes a European war, then a global war,

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all through that chain reaction of alliances.

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Speaker 1: WWII started differently, though, didn't it, not one spark but several?

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Speaker 2: Right? It began as three distinct regional wars really launched

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by three different aggressor states with different ambitions. Germany aiming

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for dominance in Europe, Italy wanting an empire in the Mediterranean, Africa,

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Japan seeking control over China and the Asia Pacific.

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Speaker 1: So they weren't initially fighting one unified war.

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Speaker 2: Not at first. They had overlapping interests and ideological similarities,

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but they were pursuing separate expansionist goals. The conflict only

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truly became World War Two when these separate theaters fused,

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primarily after the US entered the war following Pearl Harbor,

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connecting the Europeana Patific conflicts.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so applying that framework to today, the parallel is quite striking.

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Speaker 2: It is we already have two major ongoing regional conflicts

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with global implications, Russia's war in Ukraine clearly and the

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complex web of proxy wars and instability fueled by Iran

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across the Middle East.

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Speaker 1: Two theaters already active, and the potential third.

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Speaker 2: The third potential theater, is actively forming around China's increasing

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pressure on Taiwan and its broader ambitions in the Indo Pacific.

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The danger mirroring the pre WWI scenario isn't just one

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of these conflicts, but the possibility that they could merge

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or occur simultaneously, stretching resources and potentially drawing in major

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powers on multiple fronts.

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Speaker 1: If say, a conflict breaks out over Taiwan and you

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have the US, maybe Japan, Australia involved there, while still

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supporting Ukraine and managing Middle East tensions, the system gets

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overloaded very quickly.

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Speaker 2: Extremely quickly. Now, this is where the sources highlight a

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really critical point of comparison, maybe the most critical, the

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difference in the integration of the main adversarial alliances then

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versus Now.

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Speaker 1: You mean how unified the bad guys were.

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Speaker 2: Basically essentially Yes, we often talk about the Axis powers

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of the nineteen thirties Germany, Italy, Japan as if they

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were this monolithic block. Yeah, but the reality their alliance

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was surprisingly weak and uncoordinated.

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Speaker 1: Really, they weren't working closely together.

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Speaker 2: Often they were working at cross purposes. The sources give

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concrete examples. In nineteen thirty four, Hitler tried to orchestrate

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a Nazi coup in Austria. Mussolini, fearing German expansion on

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his border, actually mobilized Italian troops to stop him. These

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supposed allies were literally facing off against each other.

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Speaker 1: That's incredible. In the Germany Japan relationship.

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Speaker 2: Even more awkward. Initially, Germany was actively selling weapons and

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providing military advisors to Chiang Kaishek's China helping them fight

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against Japan. Right up until late nineteen thirty eight. It

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was an alliance of convenience, not deep strategic alignment. They

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didn't trust each other much and they didn't coordinate effectively.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Contrast that low level of integration in the nineteen

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thirties axis with the groups sometimes called the Axis of

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authoritarians today, China, Russia and North Korea Iran.

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Speaker 2: The difference is stark. The level of cooperation and integration

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we're seeing now between these dates is significantly higher, much

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more functional, both economically and militarily.

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Speaker 1: What's the evidence for that, concrete and material?

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Speaker 2: Look at North Korea sending massive amounts of ammunition, weapons,

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possibly even personnel to help Russia's war effort in Ukraine.

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That's direct operational military support and China's role. China's playing

404
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multiple roles. It's providing an economic lifeline to North Korea,

405
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food energy, which frees up Pyongyang's resources to produce weapons

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for Russia. At the same time, China is propping up

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both Russia and Iran economically by buying their sanctioned oil

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and gas, undermining international.

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Speaker 1: Pressure, and militarily beyond the economic support.

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Speaker 2: Critically, China is supplying Russia with huge amounts of non

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lethal but essential military related technology electronics, machine tools, drone components,

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stuff that directly fuels Russia's war machine and helps rebuild

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its defense industrial base. This isn't just rhetoric. It's a functioning,

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integrated network supporting mutual geopolitical goals.

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Speaker 1: So a much more cohesive adversarial block than in the

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nineteen thirties. Now, what about the other side, the democracies NATO, Well,

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this is.

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Speaker 2: Where the tarallel becomes worrying again. The sources suggest that

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in contrast to the growing cohesion of the authoritarian block,

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the democratic alliances, NATO alliances in the Pacific are showing

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signs of division and strain obvious things like persistent debates

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and shortfalls and defense spending. Many NATO allies still don't

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meet the grade two percentage GDP target, putting a disproportionate

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burden on the US and a few others. There are

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also clear strategic disagreements. How much focus on Russia versus China,

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how to handle trade issues, how much support for Ukraine.

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This lack of unity and perceived lack of resolve weakens

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to terrence.

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Speaker 1: So if you put those two pieces together, a more united,

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integrated aggressor alliance and a more divided, perhaps hesitant, defensive alliance,

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what does history suggest?

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Speaker 2: History offers a pretty chilling conclusion. When the powers seeking

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to overturn the existing order are growing stronger, more coordinated,

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and perceive the defenders of that order is weak, divided,

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or distracted.

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Speaker 1: The incentive to act aggressively increases dramatically.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, they see a window of opportunity. They calculate that

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the risk of aggression are lower because the response is

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likely to be slow, fragmented, and ineffective. It makes bold

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moves seem much more feasible.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's try to pull all four threads together them.

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We've gone through a lot.

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Speaker 2: We have. We've looked at the social dimension, how technological

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change breeds insecurity and opens the door to extremism. The

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economic dimension, the shift from interdependence towards nationalism and relative

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power concerns.

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Speaker 1: The political dimension, how polarization escalates into organized violence signaling

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institutional collapse. And finally, the military dimension the dynamic where

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regional wars escalate via alliances, particularly when aggressor alliances are

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unifying while defensive ones seem fractured.

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Speaker 2: And across all four we see these historical patterns, these

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echoes from the periods before WWI and WWII resonating quite

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loudly today.

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Speaker 1: The point of seeing these patterns, these rhymes and history

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isn't to say conflict is inevitable, right. It's not about

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predicting the future with certainty.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. It's about recognition. It's about understanding the dynamics

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at play so we can potentially avoid the catastrophic mistakes

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of the past, mistakes often borne from failing to see

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the warning signs until it was too late. The sources

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urge us to be clear eyed about the structural stresses

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where abs.

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Speaker 1: It really drives home that famous saying.

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Speaker 2: History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. And we're

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definitely hearing some powerful rhymes right now, aren't we.

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Speaker 1: I certainly are okay. As we wrap up this deep dive,

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let's leave our listeners with something to think about. A

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final thought. We spend a lot of time talking about

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the internal factors social anxiety driven by technology, deep political polarization.

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These seem to be the fundamental weaknesses that external aggressors

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then exploit.

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Speaker 2: They create the fertile ground.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so the provocative thought is this, if that internal fracturing,

474
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the tech anxiety, the societal division is a key historical

475
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precursor to major conflict, what can actually be done about it?

476
00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:44,680
Not by governments necessarily, not militarily, but by ordinary people,

477
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by communities, by citizens, non state actors.

478
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,079
Speaker 2: Hmm interesting? What concrete steps can be taken now at

479
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a grassroots level to actively push back against those dangerous

480
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feedback loops to rebuild social trust and cohesion before things

481
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reach a breaking point?

482
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Speaker 1: Exactly? It shifts the focus from waiting for top down

483
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solutions to thinking about bottom up braziliance. What can you,

484
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the listener do to counter the very real historical patterns

485
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,559
we've discussed today? Something powerful time all.

486
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Speaker 2: Over, A very important question. Thank you for joining us

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on this pretty intense deep dive. We hope it provided

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some valuable context.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we'll be back next time with more insights from

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the sources,