Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentleman, and welcome to your annual Halloween retrospective.
Speaker 1: I'm the clown Prince of Goats Travis Stale. I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: I am the Sinner trekn Patzer.
Speaker 3: I'm the Crow del Mus.
Speaker 4: The Silver Cup Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yes, ladies, gentlemen, as you just heard lots of names
Speaker 1: going around. This is the annual one we have done this. This
Speaker 1: is the third year we've done this. Maybe we did
Speaker 1: in the past, but it was just maybe one offer
Speaker 1: getting ready for another Hallowe retro But now we do
Speaker 1: this every year. We have done Oh god, what was
Speaker 1: the I think it was the Thin Man or not
Speaker 1: the thin Man? What is that? The empty Man? Right?
Speaker 1: That we did and then we did Yeah, we did
Speaker 1: it follows and now we're doing the Witch, which you know,
Speaker 1: I appreciate somewhat because it's timely, as like Robert Agers
Speaker 1: has a movie coming out, So thanks for patrons for
Speaker 1: making sure we got timely content out there, because he
Speaker 1: does have the nos Fat too coming up. But you
Speaker 1: can look on the feeds. We have reviewed Northmen, we
Speaker 1: have reviewed Lighthouse, so this kind of is perfect because
Speaker 1: we've not we've talked about the Witch tons of times
Speaker 1: I feel like on this podcast and even talking about Aras,
Speaker 1: but we've never actually reviewed The Witch. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of a good way to like close off that filmography.
Speaker 1: So we've done that. But yeah, thank you to all
Speaker 1: the patrons. You guys gave out lots of votes and
Speaker 1: everything like that. I will I forgot to shout out
Speaker 1: who gave it. I'll go find out who actually put
Speaker 1: the suggestion in. But yeah, we'll do the same probably,
Speaker 1: you know Christmas we do last year. You know, when
Speaker 1: we get to the springtime, we'll do a video game one.
Speaker 1: We do any ones all the time, so look out
Speaker 1: for those. And if you like retrospectives currently and for
Speaker 1: the until like July August, we're gonna be having the
Speaker 1: Superman and Fantastic four retrospectives are exclusive to Patron and
Speaker 1: the other retrospectives as I'm gonna start promoting this to
Speaker 1: put feet to their fire. Daredevil seasons one to three
Speaker 1: will be dropping in December, January, and February, so there
Speaker 1: you go, So look out for those. So a lot
Speaker 1: of guarantee, Big GV guarantee you there, Yeah, or they
Speaker 1: lose five er sense of their share. But this is
Speaker 1: here for Halloween times. So, mister Muss, have you seen
Speaker 1: this movie before? If you have, what did you think
Speaker 1: about it then? And then what do you think about now?
Speaker 1: In October twenty second, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, I've not seen this movie before. I definitely
Speaker 3: seen it when I'm scrolling through Netflix and things like that.
Speaker 3: Never got around to it. And then yeah, watched Lighthouse,
Speaker 3: and you know, I enjoyed Lighthouse at the time. It's
Speaker 3: like a great meme, very juicy meme movie, but like,
Speaker 3: I've never wanted to go back and watch it again.
Speaker 3: I don't know how well would hold up. And the
Speaker 3: north Man. You guys were very hot on, but I
Speaker 3: didn't really care for it too much. Was not my
Speaker 3: cup of tea. So I'm not too knowledgeable on this
Speaker 3: director of not done the deep bug on his older stuff.
Speaker 3: But this this is it really on IMDb?
Speaker 4: I swear.
Speaker 1: I think he's also a short film I think he
Speaker 1: has short films, but I don't think there's an actual
Speaker 1: film film. At least make.
Speaker 3: Sure that I've seen every single one of his movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, say You're in the darkcore fan.
Speaker 3: I I did not enjoy this movie. There was very
Speaker 3: little for me to enjoy. I hate using this word,
Speaker 3: but I just found it very boring. I feel like
Speaker 3: it takes a long time to pick up, and then
Speaker 3: like its pick up is like the last like ten
Speaker 3: minutes the movie. There's some crazy stuff that happens, but
Speaker 3: even then, I kind of wanted more of certain things,
Speaker 3: the titular witch. I wanted like some more witch action
Speaker 3: going on. I don't know. I feel like there is
Speaker 3: there is some theme or message or something that this
Speaker 3: movie's portraying, and I didn't pick up on any of it.
Speaker 3: That meant it meant nothing to me. So I'm curious
Speaker 3: to hear what your guys is interpretations of some of
Speaker 3: the things going on are. But to me, it was
Speaker 3: just very dry, very slow, quite uninteresting. And you know,
Speaker 3: I was trying to find some fun little details, but
Speaker 3: I just I wasn't really digging up much when I
Speaker 3: was doing that. So, yeah, this was this was kind
Speaker 3: of uninteresting. It was pretty short, I guess, but it
Speaker 3: felt like it dragged on because of how slow it is.
Speaker 3: But I don't see myself rewatching this one. But it
Speaker 3: was at and go back say his first future film.
Speaker 3: Go Back see Anya's I think first movie that she did,
Speaker 3: and she did like a TV show episode before this
Speaker 3: or something, so it's fun to go back and see that,
Speaker 3: but otherwise not not really much for me here, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Tayar Field, was there much for you on a first
Speaker 1: watch where we were like, damn, was this your first
Speaker 1: time watching it?
Speaker 5: This is my second time watching it. I remember watching
Speaker 5: this movie when I was a few years back, younger,
Speaker 5: You're not young, not young anymore, I think I before
Speaker 5: I met Madison, Uh yeah, and I was looking for
Speaker 5: something kind of just scary and spooky, and I heard
Speaker 5: that this.
Speaker 4: Was just kind of like on edge of a movie.
Speaker 4: It wasn't really anything like scary, just just tense.
Speaker 5: So I remember giving it a watch, and this time
Speaker 5: I feel like I still feel the same as I
Speaker 5: did back then, where it's just like I kind of
Speaker 5: do enjoy just this descent into chaos and madness and
Speaker 5: how everything kind of crumble for this family.
Speaker 4: But it's not like it's not.
Speaker 5: Breaking records for being like one of my favorite movies
Speaker 5: or anything like that. And if I was going to
Speaker 5: pick a horror movie, i'd probably pick something else over
Speaker 5: this one. But I think that it's not It's neither
Speaker 5: is it gonna be like the last time I'd ever
Speaker 5: watched this movie in a couple of years. I could
Speaker 5: probably see myself like, yeah, you know what, maybe I
Speaker 5: want to pop it on and just have this tense
Speaker 5: experience where you're just seeing this family fall apart in
Speaker 5: this mysterious witch kind of scenario unravel because I feel
Speaker 5: like it's very psychological, and half the time you wonder like, Okay,
Speaker 5: is it really just this this witch doing shit or
Speaker 5: is it thomasin I feel like at the end you
Speaker 5: kind of get like a little bit more of a confirmation,
Speaker 5: but before you get to that, you really don't know,
Speaker 5: and it's just like everyone's pointing fingers and you're trying
Speaker 5: to figure out what's going on. And there are some
Speaker 5: very creepy elements to this, and I forgot a lot
Speaker 5: of the stuff in here, except for a couple things,
Speaker 5: but the.
Speaker 4: Introduction of the witch. We'll talk more about all that
Speaker 4: stuff later.
Speaker 5: But I did not like that scene with the with
Speaker 5: the baby and ship.
Speaker 4: I just when of that saw that happened, I was like, Fuck.
Speaker 3: I don't like that. That's just man, that's just fucking brutal.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm hungry, I want to go make
Speaker 2: some food. Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 4: Was that was That was brutal. That was gross.
Speaker 2: It's pretty early on too, that is early on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And that was me first scene.
Speaker 4: That is first scene that was.
Speaker 5: Me watching it like dead like this morning, like five
Speaker 5: through to am watch the Witch. This is not a
Speaker 5: start day star to start to day like, that's.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, interesting, Yeah, I'll go next.
Speaker 6: It was my second time viewing this film. I think
Speaker 6: I watched the first one around the time of The Lighthouse.
Speaker 6: Like I think it was just because of Robert Aggers
Speaker 6: and I had always heard about this movie. Maybe that
Speaker 6: was around the time when I was like Andy Taittor
Speaker 6: Joy was starting to bounce on my radar, and I
Speaker 6: always confused this film with it's either a Nicholas Cage
Speaker 6: or a Vin Diesel movie about a witch. I can't
Speaker 6: remember which one it is, but I always thought this
Speaker 6: was that film. So when I when I put it
Speaker 6: on back in the day, I'm I can't believe Robert
Speaker 6: Eggers like made this thinking of like the Lighthouse to
Speaker 6: this weird Vin Diesel or or like or Nicholas Cage, Like.
Speaker 2: I I'll find it. It's called the Last Witch or
Speaker 2: something the Latin.
Speaker 1: The last witch Hunter is ven Diesel Right, is.
Speaker 2: There Nicholas Cage one about a witch?
Speaker 4: Yeah, with that Ron Pearlman.
Speaker 2: That was the one that I totally thought that movie.
Speaker 4: Own that movie. It's fucking great.
Speaker 1: I love Season of the Witch.
Speaker 5: Season Witch fucking great movie.
Speaker 6: Okay, So bouncing into this one, I'm like, yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 6: Robert Egger's pretty different from Lighthouse. It's a pretty cool
Speaker 6: and right away I was proven that that was not
Speaker 6: the case. This is very much not a movie I
Speaker 6: was expecting of, just like the maybe like the hardcore
Speaker 6: elements of a being a period piece, like I think
Speaker 6: the first time I watched this, like it's just I
Speaker 6: should start by saying I did not like this movie.
Speaker 6: The first time I watched this at all. I I
Speaker 6: really despised it. I told myself I was never gonna
Speaker 6: watch it again. Like it just wasn't a fun watch.
Speaker 6: I think I watched it late at night when I
Speaker 6: was tired. I don't think I understood a single word
Speaker 6: they said because I didn't have subtitles on, like when
Speaker 6: I was watching it the.
Speaker 1: First time round.
Speaker 6: And it is hard to phenomenal actor like the perfect
Speaker 6: casting for this role.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I cannot understand a fucking word he said, and.
Speaker 1: Our next collects get ready great voice.
Speaker 3: So I'm excited for subtitles and.
Speaker 1: It's like all of us in the theater, like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck's Galactus talking about.
Speaker 6: I feel like at the end of the movie too,
Speaker 6: on my first viewing, like I was just so confused
Speaker 6: on what was even happening. I probably like faded in
Speaker 6: and out, like I was saying, like it was like
Speaker 6: a fever dream because I just watched it late at night,
Speaker 6: and like your point till like it it isn't a
Speaker 6: it isn't a long movie, but it felt really long
Speaker 6: like the first time I watched it, which is really
Speaker 6: interesting because this time around, I had subtitles. I was
Speaker 6: not tired when I was watching this. I watched it
Speaker 6: in like appropriate time of the day, and I loved
Speaker 6: this movie. The second time around, it was really really
Speaker 6: interesting because I knew all the main beats that were
Speaker 6: going to be happening. But I think just now, maybe
Speaker 6: because I did like a glossary, you know, like skim
Speaker 6: of it the first time around, jumping into it now,
Speaker 6: like I'm kind of aware of what's going on, and
Speaker 6: I think just like the big moments hit a lot
Speaker 6: better for me. I appreciated the performance is so much
Speaker 6: more the just like the costume designs and everything. Like
Speaker 6: it's a pretty simple movie. It makes sense that this
Speaker 6: would be his first film because most of it is
Speaker 6: just kind of at their farm and like it's not
Speaker 6: that crazy of set pieces or anything like that. Like
Speaker 6: it it feels like a cheaper movie to make.
Speaker 1: I think just fits in the set to go Yeah, yeah, goat.
Speaker 2: And the and the goat.
Speaker 6: You need you need the goat and some some fake
Speaker 6: blood for sure. But yeah, I think it's interesting because
Speaker 6: I do really love this movie, but it's not one
Speaker 6: I would revisit often. I will watch it again. It's
Speaker 6: not really like a go to Halloween movie.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 6: It's more so like if I'm having a conversation with
Speaker 6: someone about like a witch movie, this would be the
Speaker 6: witch movie that I'd recommend of, like one that actually
Speaker 6: feels like a true folk tale?
Speaker 2: Which movie where it?
Speaker 6: I think it pulls a lot from like a like
Speaker 6: a classic folk tale of Well, that's a stupid thing
Speaker 6: to say because it's literally in the subtitle of the movie.
Speaker 6: What is that a new England folk tale, but more
Speaker 6: so just like the more realistic take on a witch
Speaker 6: and the witch's stories and like how fearful they are
Speaker 6: because they kind of get cartoonized cartoon cartoonized, that's not
Speaker 6: a word cartoonified, maybe just just as people grow up
Speaker 6: because of Halloween and like we just see witches with
Speaker 6: candy and like we just attribute to them in that sense.
Speaker 6: But this project, like you do not get like a
Speaker 6: cheerful Halloween witch by any any means in this movie,
Speaker 6: Like they feel like monsters and literally like wars words
Speaker 6: of Satan, and I think they do a good job
Speaker 6: at kind of like making you wonder if it is
Speaker 6: real or if it is just like they're so paranoid.
Speaker 6: A lot of religious elements in this movie, and I
Speaker 6: think a lot of like belief in here that I
Speaker 6: really just was able to appreciate so much more on
Speaker 6: a second viewing of like seeing the family kind of
Speaker 6: fall apart and like, yeah, there is spoilers, there is
Speaker 6: a witch in this movie, But like I still feel
Speaker 6: like a lot of their problems I still think a
Speaker 6: lot of the problems could have been dealt or like
Speaker 6: handled better and not and with their whole family just
Speaker 6: getting slaughtered because.
Speaker 2: Of the Witch. Like, I don't think the witch is
Speaker 2: the main factor in that.
Speaker 1: She's the impetus. She's the hero of the story, the ampetus.
Speaker 1: What does that even mean the inciting incident?
Speaker 6: Okay, yes, yes, true, But you can also make arguments
Speaker 6: that it's like the family's fault for that happening, right,
Speaker 6: like like so, I don't know, we'll get into it,
Speaker 6: and we get into it.
Speaker 2: But I really really appreciate this movie. I feel like
Speaker 2: the two parents.
Speaker 6: I love those actors as like character actors in like
Speaker 6: those type of roles. I believe they were both in
Speaker 6: The Green Knight and just like if they.
Speaker 1: Are, he's a Green Knight and then she's.
Speaker 3: The Uh right, I forgot she was in there too.
Speaker 1: She's the Queen. Yeah, but he plays the actual Green Knights.
Speaker 3: That's a fun connection.
Speaker 6: I like that, like he's in any period of this
Speaker 6: period type movie, like they're just so good in it.
Speaker 1: I can't remember if he's in Lighthouse. I don't feel
Speaker 1: like he is. I think he's the that's the only
Speaker 1: people on that yeah movie.
Speaker 6: He's like the two other guys that they're replacing the
Speaker 6: Mermaid here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that, yeah, I think, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he's an as Vatu, so he's like his good luck
Speaker 1: charm or whatnot.
Speaker 6: So I this is the type movie though that I
Speaker 6: one hundred percent understand if no one likes or if
Speaker 6: if they're people that are not liking this movie, because
Speaker 6: I definitely did.
Speaker 2: Not like it at all first time around.
Speaker 6: I think you have to be just good timing with
Speaker 6: when you're watching this, because yeah, if I if I
Speaker 6: was putting this on five three in the morning before work,
Speaker 6: like Taylor Field over here, that would not be a
Speaker 6: good viewing time for me. But yeah, I really really
Speaker 6: enjoy this one. Really fucked up it. Actually, I find
Speaker 6: I'm just thinking of this right now. I feel like
Speaker 6: the the witchiness affecting like the families in the Cities.
Speaker 6: It's a big like parallel to some of like the
Speaker 6: Empire stories and Total War Warhammer, so like I feel
Speaker 6: like a lot of like that comparison just bleeds over.
Speaker 6: So I'm like, oh, I just I just lovetal.
Speaker 3: War, like Peaky Blinders, like take a shot.
Speaker 4: That Robert plays a lot of Total War.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Robert Eggers.
Speaker 6: I think I I think I have loved at one
Speaker 6: point all of his films, So yeah, I'm looking forward
Speaker 6: to Nosperado.
Speaker 2: Not a big fan of Lighthouse anymore.
Speaker 6: I thought I was the first time at one point
Speaker 6: you did exactly more viewings. I like it less, but
Speaker 6: I can still appreciate the quality of it, but just
Speaker 6: not a rewatchable film.
Speaker 1: Taylor. I saw you trying to uh Webster Dictionary that
Speaker 1: word impetus first word a driving.
Speaker 4: Force because I couldn't figure out its spelling.
Speaker 1: I am p e t e u s a driving force,
Speaker 1: so like the witch is the force that drives them insanity,
Speaker 1: like it mad? You know, it's just like what is
Speaker 1: a story writing term? But uh yeah, So I had
Speaker 1: seen this the year came out, and I remember this
Speaker 1: is one of those classic movies that the build up
Speaker 1: was huge because it was and shout out to them,
Speaker 1: this is what made Robert Egger's queer because while we
Speaker 1: were talking about the costume and everything. I think we
Speaker 1: talked about this recently. But to bring up again, budget
Speaker 1: four million dollars, made forty million, so right away, that's okay,
Speaker 1: guaranteed hit, Like that's why he's done. I think so
Speaker 1: many where I think like I don't know what. I
Speaker 1: think we looked like Lighthouse made of profit, and I
Speaker 1: think Northmand kind of ate shit and I don't know
Speaker 1: what and noos Rotu's gonna eat shit again unfortunately, because
Speaker 1: like Christmas Vampire great, but this, like this built the
Speaker 1: Eggers House and the hype and everything, and to go
Speaker 1: into that is I remember this and that one of
Speaker 1: the scariest movies you'll ever see, best horror movie the
Speaker 1: decade yet to Oh yeah, it had that whole hype.
Speaker 1: So when I saw it the first time, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I can't fucking wait for this. And I
Speaker 1: was much like you do, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is fucking born. I don't care that much. And obviously
Speaker 1: there's no aunty hype train at this point I watched it.
Speaker 1: I was still living at home when I watched it,
Speaker 1: and my mom, who still has she does not have
Speaker 1: a soundbar terrible TV speaker, so trying to hear Ralph
Speaker 1: Innison on the TV was a struggle. And I did
Speaker 1: not have subtitles at that point, so it was not
Speaker 1: a good watch. And I remember being like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: am not a not a fan of this movie, but
Speaker 1: funny enough, just like I don't know why this fucking
Speaker 1: keeps happening. Shout out to God Loves Me sixty nine,
Speaker 1: who did recommend this movie. He was one that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I only showed out so much to. These sales have
Speaker 1: been on AFRIC nine since she abandoned my team at
Speaker 1: the trivia battle versus Dylan's team, So I still salty
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 3: Glorious he owes me.
Speaker 1: I'm all again, but somehow this keeps happening to me.
Speaker 1: Where I watched The Empty Man for the first time
Speaker 1: and then Clay recommends it that gets voted on it falls, Oh,
Speaker 1: I have a cravey and watch that, and then three
Speaker 1: months I watched that. I watched The Witch earlier again,
Speaker 1: like at the beginning of this year, and I think
Speaker 1: it was in the Nosforato hype because it's some image
Speaker 1: or something, and I was like, oh, yeah, I gotta
Speaker 1: go back to that one because I always want to
Speaker 1: give it a chance, because it's always like when you
Speaker 1: see twenty ten's Best of Horrors, the Witch is always
Speaker 1: on their top ten lists, like it's like very acclaimed,
Speaker 1: so it's like, I'm gonna get this chance. So of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: I watched this movie. I don't know, six seven months ago,
Speaker 1: and of course it went to a Hallingo pole, so
Speaker 1: I have to just not watch any horror movies until
Speaker 1: next year we do the Hollming Pole. Because I like,
Speaker 1: I did really enjoy my second watch. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I needed an immediate watch right away, but I
Speaker 1: am like Kirkling where I second watch, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: saying loved is a weird thing because it's not even
Speaker 1: like Joker. I say, I love that movie and it's depressing,
Speaker 1: but I can go back and watch that like over
Speaker 1: and over. This movie, I definitely need to be in
Speaker 1: the right mood. It needs some time, but I definitely
Speaker 1: think it is like I I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: in my personal top ten, but I get the hype
Speaker 1: and watching a second time definitely made me go, Okay,
Speaker 1: I really enjoy this movie. And that's what even the
Speaker 1: third time. Now, there's just certain stuff, just there's about
Speaker 1: three things which you know, some people might not like.
Speaker 1: I like this type of thing where there's about three
Speaker 1: massive things in the story where it is your own
Speaker 1: choose your own adventure. And Rob Berger's said, like I'm
Speaker 1: not answering that, Like I'm not gonna tell you what is,
Speaker 1: what it's like, you can leave that for yourself. And
Speaker 1: I love that when it's done well. When a movie
Speaker 1: does that poorly, it's just okay, it feels lazy. It's
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you know, it's up to you. But
Speaker 1: with this, I feel like it really works. The acting
Speaker 1: all around is great. There's a few shots in here
Speaker 1: that are just you know, we were talking about a
Speaker 1: different cast. There's a shot in here on the Crow
Speaker 1: that's still burned in my mind even since I saw
Speaker 1: the first time, and I think, yeah, just this dread
Speaker 1: of the witches. And what I love is each character,
Speaker 1: maybe not the two kids, but other every other single
Speaker 1: character has a fear and whether it is the witch
Speaker 1: or the situation, that fear starts to build and build
Speaker 1: and fox them all at the end. And I love
Speaker 1: still even with Annie tayror Joy's character, there's people that
Speaker 1: like argue that she is a witch the whole time
Speaker 1: and she's just fucking with everybody, And you can watch
Speaker 1: the movie and see like, oh, she might actually just
Speaker 1: be evil and wanted to write her family and doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if she's crying here there there's all these little
Speaker 1: signs and yeah, I think this movie is outstandingly made.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I need a second watch because
Speaker 1: that first watch, I was like, this was I overhyped,
Speaker 1: Never gonna watch this again. And then probably because I
Speaker 1: liked Lighthouse and you know, in our sense, but then
Speaker 1: I love Northman. I was okay, I gotta go back,
Speaker 1: and I was glad I went back. And now I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take a break for a while. I was like,
Speaker 1: it falls again. I'm take a break. I don't need
Speaker 1: to see the Witch for a while. But even this time,
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like a awful watch. It's definitely really
Speaker 1: slow at times, but I think it does. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll be excited to watch it all fourth time because
Speaker 1: each each watch I've had, I enjoy it more. So. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I really do have this in high regard now. But
Speaker 1: ask me, literally, god, what fourteen is this? Twenty ten?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, twenty fifteen. Okay, I don't know where I read
Speaker 1: twenty ten. I'm going nuts, But yeah, ask me eleven,
Speaker 1: you know, nine years ago, not not some so wherever
Speaker 1: we want to go with h the Witch? The Witch?
Speaker 3: I would love to ask you guys. Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I guess just hearing you guys, describe why you like
Speaker 3: it is making me rethink like what I watched a
Speaker 3: little bit to some extent, like I'll go with this
Speaker 3: very obvious because Kirk, when you're talking about like you know,
Speaker 3: did were they kind of building up to this they
Speaker 3: like deserve this stuff for themselves or is it just
Speaker 3: the witch fucking with them? It's like the inciting incident.
Speaker 3: Like the first thing that really kicks it off is
Speaker 3: like the baby going missing, And now I'm thinking about
Speaker 3: that scene of like okay, well, yeah, Anya is the
Speaker 3: only one there when that happens. So is there a
Speaker 3: read on that scene that she just took and yeats
Speaker 3: the baby? Because like when I was watching it, I
Speaker 3: didn't take I didn't get that perspective at all that
Speaker 3: like that was a possibility because that would kind of
Speaker 3: just be like blatantly lying to the viewer. But it's
Speaker 3: like that when you guys are rewatching it and thinking
Speaker 3: about it and knowing everything is like not something that
Speaker 3: you're thinking about of like, oh, maybe she did something
Speaker 3: there because to me it seems like it's totally innocent.
Speaker 3: But once again, after watch, maybe I wouldn't have that.
Speaker 6: It's interesting because like looking back on it, I feel
Speaker 6: like Anya wasn't a witch the whole time, like after my.
Speaker 1: Agree of it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but like that that scene, like I can't really
Speaker 6: explain it because unless the witch, like the real witch,
Speaker 6: just slithered down of the grass or something of the
Speaker 6: baby like instantly, it is too quick, it is unless
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, unless she's like bewitched, like like
Speaker 6: she actually like she closed her eyes for a second
Speaker 6: and it's not actually been a second. I just think
Speaker 6: the way that the scenes played out, it doesn't make
Speaker 6: you think that, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, there's like magic in this world, right, like we
Speaker 3: presumably the witch is trans like is transform you know,
Speaker 3: what's the word I'm looking for into like the bunny rabbit,
Speaker 3: Like I assume that's the witch that's cruising around there.
Speaker 3: They're flying at the end. So once again, unless like
Speaker 3: the things we're seeing are just lies to the viewer,
Speaker 3: then it's like, well, there is magic, So it's not
Speaker 3: shocking that the witch would bill to snap their fingers
Speaker 3: and like teleport the baby away.
Speaker 6: I feel like how I would headcanon that is is
Speaker 6: witch magic, like not Anya involved or maybe indirectly like
Speaker 6: she got bewitched. I think that would be the only
Speaker 6: real reason to have that scene, because I think you
Speaker 6: could get to the end of this movie and make
Speaker 6: the argument that it actually was eaten by a wolf
Speaker 6: or something if you don't have the scene of the
Speaker 6: naked witch making like the stew you know, right after that,
Speaker 6: like you just hear the noises and everything, all the
Speaker 6: gross sequences that Taylor listed earlier.
Speaker 1: That's the tough thing because like what Dylan says is
Speaker 1: true if like, okay, in a real let's say, no
Speaker 1: magic in a real world, there's no way to me,
Speaker 1: like a wolf a woman comes by and gets the baby, right,
Speaker 1: because you would hear that she doesn't look away that long,
Speaker 1: So that doesn't make sense. That's why it's like there
Speaker 1: has to be some sort of magical element. And that's
Speaker 1: where I go, Okay, it still even could be on
Speaker 1: you whether it is a bewitch, whether it is almost
Speaker 1: like a wishing this baby away for some reason to
Speaker 1: like hurt the family, and that is impetus for this
Speaker 1: thing driving force, because that's the thing like with witches,
Speaker 1: like it's always meaned about, right, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: a woman would do something in that age and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, that's a witch, like, you know, and they
Speaker 1: would cast it upon them. And that's where it's like
Speaker 1: even the they jump to and they talk about like
Speaker 1: a witch and you know, the dad's no, it's a wolf,
Speaker 1: and you know, they give these explanations, but like that's
Speaker 1: something like, I know, it's a huge stretch because you
Speaker 1: can't if you want to have Anya as a potential
Speaker 1: witch character, you have to have her as like an
Speaker 1: unreliable narrator, so you can't tip that off. And then
Speaker 1: even the witch scene, to me, that's just like I
Speaker 1: think that is happening, but you could take that as
Speaker 1: like a thought that they're having that if it is
Speaker 1: like because they've thought they've talked about a witch and
Speaker 1: they you know, hush that down. It's not that. Then
Speaker 1: the witch talk keeps continuing, continuing, and the twins bring
Speaker 1: it up and then Anya has that you know joke
Speaker 1: that does terribly for it later on because it gets
Speaker 1: brought back later on. But that idea of the witch
Speaker 1: cooking that child, that's like the only real witchy thing.
Speaker 1: I guess they're it's tough because then you have the boy.
Speaker 1: Because my thing is like at the end, when the
Speaker 1: witches are doing their cuve and they're all naked at
Speaker 1: the fire, right, Other than Anya floating, that doesn't they're
Speaker 1: not doing anything magical. That's just like what people in
Speaker 1: fucking cults would do, right, And you could just say
Speaker 1: that Anya's floating because it's in her mind. But that's
Speaker 1: a tough thing. In this movie. There's things where like, Okay,
Speaker 1: when the boy kisses the hot look and witch and
Speaker 1: then she grabs them has like the old arm, that's
Speaker 1: clearly like a magical thing, right, But or is he
Speaker 1: just going fucking nuts which people have talked about because
Speaker 1: they're eating like tarnished food and that could just be
Speaker 1: fucking with them, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, food that comes from her woods where yeah, you
Speaker 3: could do shit to it. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 6: And I think that's what's interesting about this movie is
Speaker 6: like eighty percent of it you could make the argument that, oh,
Speaker 6: it is just like them allowing their fears. I think
Speaker 6: to take it in that vein because how you just
Speaker 6: listen to Travis, like you could have the baby go
Speaker 6: missing and then that scene of like the witch thing happening,
Speaker 6: like that could just be their worst case scenario that
Speaker 6: their magic, right, because this is this is the world
Speaker 6: that they live in they believe that there's witches out
Speaker 6: there if you're a sinner, like like the devil's gonna
Speaker 6: get you and.
Speaker 1: All the scariest thing.
Speaker 6: But because their belief is so strong like that that
Speaker 6: like that's the reality because if you if you sin,
Speaker 6: you're gonna be going to hell. Like that's it's not
Speaker 6: just that is a cause, like that's a possible thing
Speaker 6: that could happen.
Speaker 2: That is their belief. So therefore that is the way
Speaker 2: that the world works in their mind.
Speaker 6: So I think it is interesting actually making that point
Speaker 6: that it could just be them imagining that worst case
Speaker 6: scenario or later on when they are picturing some witchy
Speaker 6: things going on, that's that's them picturing that happening.
Speaker 2: I don't think that is the case.
Speaker 6: I think it especially at the end, like when Anya
Speaker 6: is talking to Billy what's the name Black Billy or
Speaker 6: something like that, the black phill up.
Speaker 2: There you go, the Billy goat.
Speaker 6: But like like at that point, it's just like, Okay,
Speaker 6: you know this is we are living in the world
Speaker 6: of witches, Insanan and all these things, and that's.
Speaker 1: Or she is and that's like they the food. I
Speaker 1: haven't the trivia Robert eggers specifically use it because that
Speaker 1: was what was reported back in that era that when
Speaker 1: not which stuff, just when people would eat that food,
Speaker 1: they would start to hallucinate if it was like gone
Speaker 1: bad crops. That's the thing of right, because even then
Speaker 1: like the Dad food and stuff. Yeah, like even Black
Speaker 1: Philip killing the Dad, I know, people, oh well that's
Speaker 1: the devils, Like that could just be a fucking goat
Speaker 1: being like rabid. Right, It's not like he's talking. We
Speaker 1: don't see the goat talk to any of our non
Speaker 1: witchy characters.
Speaker 3: I'm sure thousands of people in medieval times died to
Speaker 3: a random animal hitting them in a way. And then
Speaker 3: you know, especially if you're isolated like this and don't
Speaker 3: have a doctor or anyone nearby. But yeah, like I like,
Speaker 3: for me, it seemed pretty simple. And that's why this
Speaker 3: is already interesting to hear you guys perspective, because to
Speaker 3: me it seemed like kind of a self fulfilling prophecy
Speaker 3: sort of thing of like any sort of Chosen One storyline,
Speaker 3: It's kind of like that where it's like sometimes a
Speaker 3: Chosen One character just has magical powers and plot armor
Speaker 3: and everything works for them. It's like, oh, yeah, they're
Speaker 3: the chosen One, it makes sense. But other times a
Speaker 3: chosen One story is like, Okay, well, the character who
Speaker 3: were calling the chosen one just went through all the
Speaker 3: hard work and steps to become like all the things
Speaker 3: that makes that chosen One character, and so they kind
Speaker 3: of become it in that way. And I just feel
Speaker 3: like that's kind of what was happening with Anya here,
Speaker 3: where if her whole family is telling her over and
Speaker 3: over again, you're a witch. They're locking her up, they're
Speaker 3: kicking her out of the house, they're doing all this stuff,
Speaker 3: then like, yeah, she will start to believe it at
Speaker 3: the end, and then that's when she'll just when everything
Speaker 3: goes completely insane, then that she'll just retreat to the
Speaker 3: woods and kind of become a witch. But like, I
Speaker 3: don't think that she was the whole time, at least
Speaker 3: that's my read after the first watch, and it seems
Speaker 3: like that's what you guys think as well after watching
Speaker 3: it and thinking on it a bit more. Is that
Speaker 3: that wasn't that she was always the witch, even though
Speaker 3: if you there's that possible read, but she became it
Speaker 3: just because everyone's around her is telling her that and
Speaker 3: making her believe it in a.
Speaker 1: Way, and she's got nothing left right, her whole family's
Speaker 1: fucking dead. They turned against her, so like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: definitely read it as like it's like a even if
Speaker 1: the witches were just fucking with their family the way,
Speaker 1: I stas like they're indoctrinating her to become a witch
Speaker 1: in a way where because it just feels so like
Speaker 1: sure they take the baby, but like the coven's not
Speaker 1: that far from her. It just almost feels like it
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, a destiny chose one in a situation,
Speaker 1: but it's just even then they could see something in
Speaker 1: her that, oh, you know, she has X Y whatever
Speaker 1: witches look for in that era, like oh, this girl
Speaker 1: has it right, And if she does become a witch,
Speaker 1: she's like already floating at the end, right, So you
Speaker 1: would take like, Okay, she like maybe it was her
Speaker 1: destiny to not be with this family and everything. But
Speaker 1: I do like having the like I said, there's logical leaps,
Speaker 1: so you could have it that okaypore just going crazy
Speaker 1: if she is a witch the whole time. That to
Speaker 1: me is like there's part of me that would like
Speaker 1: that because that's just like super fucked up. If like
Speaker 1: from the beginning, she's like, you know what, I hate
Speaker 1: my family, and because like they before things go bad,
Speaker 1: they set the seeds of even her mother and her
Speaker 1: not being close, right Like, you can tell that they
Speaker 1: don't have a close relationship. She on purpose, which I
Speaker 1: have this specifically my family and older generation favors the
Speaker 1: men clearly, right like, she talks about her son in
Speaker 1: such a big, like glowing light. But there's nothing ever
Speaker 1: said to like about any tear Joy's character. Now, obviously
Speaker 1: the baby goes away, so there's some there's some distance
Speaker 1: put between the two. But you get the sense right
Speaker 1: away that these two aren't the closest of characters. So
Speaker 1: and that's where it is, like all these like I said,
Speaker 1: you don't really have the twins fear, Like I guess
Speaker 1: their fear is just like which is black fills. But
Speaker 1: like the dad's trying to protect his family and he's
Speaker 1: being overprotective. The mom you can kind of see that
Speaker 1: her like hate for her daughter drives her to madness.
Speaker 1: The son's kind of shoots him in the foot, you know,
Speaker 1: a man with.
Speaker 6: The mom though, like we don't really see, we don't
Speaker 6: really interact with her and Anya together like post crisis
Speaker 6: of her losing Samuel, right like the child.
Speaker 1: She hates her, that's it though, She's just like I
Speaker 1: think she's just disowned her daughter.
Speaker 6: Now, No because of that though, That's what I mean,
Speaker 6: Like the whole movie, we're like we're dealing with the
Speaker 6: mother after this crisis that in her let's just say,
Speaker 6: for sake of argument, she completely blames Anya for that
Speaker 6: or Thomasin for that event. So I think it's just
Speaker 6: it almost makes sense on like why she would have
Speaker 6: that hatred towards her. Like I'm not saying it's right
Speaker 6: for her to think that, but like for the sake
Speaker 6: of the movie, at least the dynamic between her and Thomasin,
Speaker 6: it's like those two would make sense why they would
Speaker 6: be at all. It Mostly, I guess for the mother's
Speaker 6: perspective towards Thomasin, Thomasin is just the victim in the case.
Speaker 6: And I don't know, I like the idea of making
Speaker 6: just for sake of conversation of is Thomasin a witch
Speaker 6: the whole time?
Speaker 2: And like you don't really know.
Speaker 6: I think it's like probably eighty percent that she isn't
Speaker 6: like she is just kind of a victim of the
Speaker 6: situation at hand, mostly because when we have the camera
Speaker 6: on her, even if she's by herself, like she still
Speaker 6: looks pretty down and out and sad and like everything
Speaker 6: is not going right for my family, and I still
Speaker 6: feel like she is making like maybe certain attempts to
Speaker 6: bring the family together, like when she is really scared,
Speaker 6: like kind of after when the twins are like really
Speaker 6: accusing her of being a witch and like starting to
Speaker 6: point the finger at her, It's like, like, I was
Speaker 6: just joking at that point.
Speaker 2: Obviously It's it's.
Speaker 6: Bad at that point because now the parents are starting
Speaker 6: to like be's pretty sus the mother was kind of
Speaker 6: already in that camp. But I just think from I
Speaker 6: don't know, like like if she was conniving maybe off screen,
Speaker 6: then it would have been like, oh, she was a
Speaker 6: witch the whole time. And I think they do somewhat
Speaker 6: of a decent job at making us think that she
Speaker 6: could be the witch because of something like when when
Speaker 6: the old witch drinks all the goats and the dad
Speaker 6: comes out for a morning piss and he just sees
Speaker 6: his goats completely empty, and then Thomasin's just like lying
Speaker 6: there like at the scene of the crime, Like that's
Speaker 6: pretty fucking sus and that you know, they do the
Speaker 6: comparison a couple other times that she's just kind of
Speaker 6: always at the scene of the crime, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: But I just think because of those, because maybe because
Speaker 6: of a lack of scenes where she looks us, it
Speaker 6: just makes me think that's like pretty eighty percent confirmed
Speaker 6: that she is just innocent in it. But I don't know,
Speaker 6: it was kind of crossing over on points there. You
Speaker 6: just can kind of touch upon anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean one thing too that I was a
Speaker 3: little couldn't quite figure out is like every one of
Speaker 3: the family members has some thing about them that that
Speaker 3: I guess you could call them like a bad person
Speaker 3: or a shitty person, or like they deserve this or
Speaker 3: like they they've earned this fate to some extent, And
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of it is, like I
Speaker 3: don't know, a lot of it is just like little
Speaker 3: lies that they tell to each other, and like that
Speaker 3: makes them bad people. I guess. You know, Caleb, he's
Speaker 3: like checking out his sister's boobs all the time, so
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, we eat what's going on there, buddy.
Speaker 3: I never understood like the twins, like the young kids,
Speaker 3: I feel like what if that is part of it?
Speaker 3: Like these people are bad people, Like this is karma
Speaker 3: coming back to get them in some way. Like do
Speaker 3: the twins do anything that we would deem evil or
Speaker 3: bad or anything?
Speaker 4: Worshiping Black Philip and might be the bad thing.
Speaker 1: Kind of, but it's like do they know, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know if they know.
Speaker 3: They're so good making them stories, right yeah, and like
Speaker 3: they're just singing and dancing.
Speaker 5: They were very disobedient too, and I don't know if
Speaker 5: that's how hard, Like I.
Speaker 6: Would never really think unless it's like a straight up
Speaker 6: child's serial killer, Like I would never think that like
Speaker 6: a child is evil or like a ser like they're
Speaker 6: just kind of yeah, yeah, exactly, Like they're just they're
Speaker 6: talking to you know, Black Philip, Like it's and they're
Speaker 6: making stories and like I probably talked to my little
Speaker 6: stuffies as a little kid, like just making stories as
Speaker 6: you go.
Speaker 2: So I would never say that's really a sinner type thing.
Speaker 2: But I'm a center myself.
Speaker 1: So it's like they're they're just learning and stuff. Like
Speaker 1: even if Black Philips are talking to them, I guess
Speaker 1: it's tough though, right, that's what he's saying to them, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's like you said at the beginning, right, like
Speaker 1: they do just think if they die or sin, they're
Speaker 1: going hell, and that's something they are taught like in
Speaker 1: that era of that's like a it could be as
Speaker 1: a I don't know, a vessel for you know, the devil, right,
Speaker 1: like a black goat like that and everything. So but
Speaker 1: again it's that that the Twins is a tougher one
Speaker 1: to get to for me as far as like them
Speaker 1: deserving to die or anything like that, because them just
Speaker 1: being a little shits. It's like, well little kids all
Speaker 1: the time. It can be a little jerks, right, but
Speaker 1: it's just like and I guess you could say they
Speaker 1: kind of like trying to set up on you because
Speaker 1: they do say she tells like I think they know
Speaker 1: that she's I think they know she's joking. But when
Speaker 1: they do hank like the dad locks black fill up
Speaker 1: the twins and her in the cage, and I do
Speaker 1: like that they both ask each other like you the witch?
Speaker 1: And then and then she asked them like you the witch?
Speaker 1: And I don't think so. But that's where she's like,
Speaker 1: that's super fucking sus. So when these kids are like,
Speaker 1: I don't think so and then the goat is just
Speaker 1: looking at you. So it's again it's it's I think
Speaker 1: they're just a casualty in the crossfire here. I think
Speaker 1: it's more it's like the sins of the Father. I
Speaker 1: think that's what it kind of is, right.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm almost that they weren't like earlier fodder
Speaker 3: in the movie.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: To further this thing of like maybe the witch would
Speaker 3: just go up like age pretty much like take out
Speaker 3: the youngest and then go up from there, but they
Speaker 3: kind of skip that, go to Caleb and then and
Speaker 3: then everyone kind of dies in the final sequence altogether,
Speaker 3: like back to back, you know. So that that was
Speaker 3: that I was hard. It was hard for me to
Speaker 3: piece together what exactly the point of the twins were
Speaker 3: other than like you know, certain things of like they
Speaker 3: revealed to the parents like oh, she's a witch because
Speaker 3: she said that, which I think that was a really
Speaker 3: wellden scene, like so many times we see that in
Speaker 3: a movie or show, and it's really annoying as if
Speaker 3: you were to like, okay, just explain, just tell, explain
Speaker 3: what happened there, and then everything can get cleared up,
Speaker 3: and they never do. But I feel that was a
Speaker 3: perfect situation where like the mom was already just in
Speaker 3: such tragedy, the sun is tweaking out in a way
Speaker 3: that they're just freaking out about, and then the twins
Speaker 3: drop this and like, yeah, that's a really hard thing
Speaker 3: to explain because she went really hard when she was
Speaker 3: being the fake witch on the on the the younger
Speaker 3: sister just like she went way too hard with that
Speaker 3: joke if she was joking, you know. So I can
Speaker 3: see how that's a very hard thing to explain away
Speaker 3: given the circumstances.
Speaker 1: You never came in on the what you thought was
Speaker 1: real or not real in that situation. Yeah, what's going on?
Speaker 4: Sequence?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I yeah, Like the idea of her being a
Speaker 5: witch one to start, that's really really intriguing. And I
Speaker 5: didn't really think of that, uh the like what's real
Speaker 5: and what is not? Like some things just seem to
Speaker 5: line up with other events. And for example, I'm just
Speaker 5: gonna say, when they were trapped in that bar and
Speaker 5: then this old lady is just fucking pounding back that
Speaker 5: goat's milk at the same time you have this crow
Speaker 5: just pounding back the mum's milk too, I guess just like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I feel like, okay, well those the one event might
Speaker 5: be well, the one event is clearly she's hallucinating. It
Speaker 5: could be that she's getting sick from the corn of
Speaker 5: the food like you.
Speaker 4: Were talking about Travis. Uh, But.
Speaker 5: Like are the kids and also like thomasin are they
Speaker 5: have loose sitting because there's clearly an old lady in there.
Speaker 5: She's clearly doing something, clearly doing something.
Speaker 1: Is there an old lady in there in.
Speaker 4: The barn scene when they're trapped.
Speaker 1: Because when they when Anya wakes up, she's gone.
Speaker 5: But the goats screams yeah because the twins, the twins
Speaker 5: wake up and they they freak out, and then it
Speaker 5: cuts to you see the witch and it cuts to
Speaker 5: Anya and then she screams yeah.
Speaker 1: But I I also in fear that if you're taking
Speaker 1: as like the oh, there's double meaning to that that
Speaker 1: that could have they could have saw Anya doing that
Speaker 1: and she is like in like, they're fucking with us
Speaker 1: again as she's they show the older witch, but that's
Speaker 1: her because when Annia wakes up, it looks like a
Speaker 1: dream and then they cut and then the dad finds
Speaker 1: them all dead. You don't see that witch interact with
Speaker 1: any adults there or like, so that's where it's like
Speaker 1: to me, it's like, is that witch there? Is it
Speaker 1: just black filt fucking round? Is just a hallucination because
Speaker 1: like I don't think it's a for sure because if
Speaker 1: she is there, I guess that, Okay, all the stuff
Speaker 1: goes down, then she scurries away, and that could be it,
Speaker 1: right or just magic, right, But I mean, but.
Speaker 3: To counter that, like given the scene with the witch
Speaker 3: like in her hut and when she's cooking up the kid,
Speaker 3: and then later when the witch is like the younger
Speaker 3: version and baits in Caleb, like, if we're seeing that witch,
Speaker 3: presumably there's no way that could be on you, right,
Speaker 3: So like why would why would that not be just
Speaker 3: the continuity of that?
Speaker 1: Well, no, it could be because they both go in the
Speaker 1: forest together, right, but think dad right away after she does,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't.
Speaker 3: She's also knocked out in that sequence, interestingly.
Speaker 1: And the dad brings it up. He's like, you're the
Speaker 1: one that lost him and you're the one that found him,
Speaker 1: and that when he starts to believe on is the witch.
Speaker 3: But I mean when the baby goes missing, like that's
Speaker 3: that it doesn't really connect there, I guess just.
Speaker 1: That she's the last one to see him though, right,
Speaker 1: she's the last one to see the baby.
Speaker 3: And that scene happens at night, right, like when when
Speaker 3: when when the she's actually cooking up.
Speaker 1: The baby, Yeah, the cooking. Yeah, the baby goes back.
Speaker 1: Like it's like I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to think, like maybe all these things happen when
Speaker 3: she's asleep, and maybe it's like some sleepwalking. The witch
Speaker 3: mint situation, Well.
Speaker 5: There's a red cloak too, right, that's what the twins say, like, oh,
Speaker 5: we see this witch walking around out in the forest.
Speaker 5: She's got like a red cloak, which you see is
Speaker 5: reoccurring because the young witch luring Calebin is wearing that
Speaker 5: cloak over her head and then the mom has it
Speaker 5: on her lap on the crow is like going to
Speaker 5: town on her right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even like bringing back this movie like they you know,
Speaker 3: if they wanted to, if it was in a horror move,
Speaker 3: they could have color graded it made like the Poppy
Speaker 3: at greens and blues. But it is a very drab movie,
Speaker 3: and so when you have any color really stands out,
Speaker 3: like the red and of course like the apple as well.
Speaker 3: So I'm sure there's some connection there between like this
Speaker 3: red cape and this red apple that Caleb is going
Speaker 3: to the woods to find he finds something with a
Speaker 3: red something or rather that.
Speaker 1: It's just the what is it puberty just getting the
Speaker 1: best of them there, you know, seeing right everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but and that's the thing. I still believe that these
Speaker 1: situations happened to her, but there's always like the yeah
Speaker 1: but and there's all this like and that. That's what
Speaker 1: I do like about it because I think that you
Speaker 1: can just watch it. The way that I take is, Okay,
Speaker 1: she's a she's not which that this, you know, she
Speaker 1: becomes one, et cetera, and it just completely works. But then
Speaker 1: I kind of like that it has that double on
Speaker 1: Tauendre if you want to look into it, because all
Speaker 1: these things happen and then you know, the dad, he
Speaker 1: just dies from a goat, so that could be.
Speaker 2: So Trevor's like, how are you reading into that scene?
Speaker 6: Then with the old witch in the barn with them
Speaker 6: you don't think she was actually there?
Speaker 1: No, it's just like another hallucination sort of like I
Speaker 1: definitely don't think she even if the case, So if
Speaker 1: I think that that that witch is in the forest
Speaker 1: and everything, right, because like even then we.
Speaker 2: Never girlfriends what you're talking about or the well there was.
Speaker 1: I think the one that eats the baby. Cale's girlfriend
Speaker 1: is still her because when she re she's around, she has.
Speaker 2: An old arm, right, Oh I see, Okay.
Speaker 1: The only thing that's odd is we don't like I've
Speaker 1: always thought it's interested when Anya gets to the final
Speaker 1: coven and they're all spinning, but and whatnot, you never
Speaker 1: have like a moment of Anya's seeing that witch, like
Speaker 1: the witch that has like haunted them the whole movie.
Speaker 1: You would think that would be almost like a respect,
Speaker 1: like oh, you're here with us now, and like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is where I'm supposed to be. You never see
Speaker 1: that now. Granted, this happens a lot of witch folk
Speaker 1: right where she could be one of those witches that
Speaker 1: are now young and sexy. That happens right, like they
Speaker 1: take youth and stuff. So but still I always thought
Speaker 1: that is odd that she doesn't have a moment with
Speaker 1: any witch that would kind of say like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been like messing with your whole family for a
Speaker 1: couple of days and now you're here and it's great
Speaker 1: to see you. So for me though, if that witch
Speaker 1: it's like we talk about the baby being take away
Speaker 1: as magic if that witch is like an actual character
Speaker 1: and messing with them. I think she's there in like
Speaker 1: a magical way, not as like a physical like you
Speaker 1: couldn't touch that witch and like pull her off and
Speaker 1: start punching her. She's there in like a astral projection
Speaker 1: and something or could just poof away. I don't think
Speaker 1: she's actually there sucking on the tee and you could
Speaker 1: pull her off.
Speaker 2: So then how do you explain the goats that were
Speaker 2: just drained right there? Just magic?
Speaker 1: How would you explain that as far as like Onya
Speaker 1: wakes up and those goats are still live? So did
Speaker 1: go on you like the witch clock her? You know,
Speaker 1: that's a tough thing.
Speaker 6: I I really don't know how to answer that like cleanly,
Speaker 6: because my my running theory was just somehow the witch
Speaker 6: got in there, whether like we like we were mentioning the.
Speaker 2: Rabbit or.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, she got I'm pretty sure the first time
Speaker 6: I watched this, I probably dozed off and woke up
Speaker 6: in that scene to her just at me. It's like
Speaker 6: the scene of Blockers where I just locked eyes with
Speaker 6: the witch looking at me, and.
Speaker 1: Then she could be the rabbit, right she's there and
Speaker 1: then yeah, so.
Speaker 6: She got and the goats probably took the twigs and
Speaker 6: then just left on you because she knows that she's
Speaker 6: turning into the witch.
Speaker 2: I don't like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Really thought too much about it though, when the dad
Speaker 3: locked him up in the bar and I'm like, there's
Speaker 3: got to be way out of this barn, right, Like.
Speaker 2: Do those nails he was using like.
Speaker 3: One door the roofs made of hay, Like I think
Speaker 3: that's what I mean.
Speaker 6: The nails were like it was like a like tiny,
Speaker 6: like one little nail floppy board.
Speaker 1: I just also thought really bold of him to still
Speaker 1: like go to bed, because like the next thing, he
Speaker 1: wakes up and he climbs over his wife, Like that's
Speaker 1: a night where you're I'm gonna fucking sit outside this
Speaker 1: barn and I'm keeping my eyes on all Like who
Speaker 1: goes to bed after everything that you think exhausted.
Speaker 2: I don't know if people live in this time era,
Speaker 2: let alone.
Speaker 3: With the witchcraft, like on the edge of starvation.
Speaker 1: This is life. I'm fine if it's he's outside and
Speaker 1: he falls asleep, but he's fully tucked into the bed
Speaker 1: with his life. Yeah, Like that's a night where it's
Speaker 1: like one of my three kids could be a witch.
Speaker 1: I gotta fucking stay up. There's no way I'm going
Speaker 1: into bed.
Speaker 5: But like, well that's the thing, Like I feel like
Speaker 5: this guy he's lost, he's lost two kids at this point,
Speaker 5: he's thinking like, holy funk, I had to lock the
Speaker 5: rest of my kids in the barn with black Phil
Speaker 5: up to go my wife. I walked in on my
Speaker 5: wife getting you know, with the crow again, walked to
Speaker 5: my wife with that. Like this guy is clearly just thinking,
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm fucking done. He's he's thinking about
Speaker 5: building his barn and becoming a wheat farmer.
Speaker 4: So he's going to bed that night. He's just calling
Speaker 4: it quits.
Speaker 3: His wife come for me in a pile of wood.
Speaker 3: I'm out of here, like just get me, yeah, out
Speaker 3: of here.
Speaker 1: And then before it really got bad, his wife all
Speaker 1: submitted that she doesn't love him anymore and doesn't think
Speaker 1: she could ever love him. So just another just like
Speaker 1: drop that in there. His son is like dying in
Speaker 1: the room. She's like, yeah, you know, I don't really
Speaker 1: love you and I don't think I could in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, another another theory here to add on, Like Anya
Speaker 3: being passed out, and then like she's the witch in
Speaker 3: those moments, because so the first time, there's kind of
Speaker 3: two sequences when Caleb's checking out his sister. The first
Speaker 3: one she's just like sleeping in the house, and then
Speaker 3: the next time it's like when they're at the river
Speaker 3: cleaning clothes or something, and she like catches him, and
Speaker 3: so it's it's almost it's not clear if she saw
Speaker 3: him checking her out, but she's like seems like she
Speaker 3: maybe fifty percent chance kind of acknowledged him there in
Speaker 3: doing that. And then obviously when he gets baited into
Speaker 3: that barn later, it's like some witch who just has
Speaker 3: like her boobs out.
Speaker 1: She punishes him for his crimes, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. I feel like the more
Speaker 3: we talk about it, the more that theory seems pretty
Speaker 3: likely to me. And once again, now I gotta do
Speaker 3: a rewatch to confirm her see if it actually lines
Speaker 3: up or if it's just me and I remember dream
Speaker 3: inception style trying to piece all together.
Speaker 1: It's definitely gone out that theory because when we talk
Speaker 1: about the barn, just certain things and like the idea
Speaker 1: of like I didn't really think about her and the
Speaker 1: sleeping and like any time, and again, even if it's
Speaker 1: like unbeknownst to her, she's doing these things right, if
Speaker 1: it is a bewitched or a possession in a way
Speaker 1: that she could be like the con to it. Like
Speaker 1: even then maybe the fucking witch is like she's not
Speaker 1: the rabbit. She's just like like puppeteering on you to
Speaker 1: do some of these things right, and she can just
Speaker 1: stay in her little cave while you.
Speaker 3: Can see we even see Caleb like doing a full
Speaker 3: stealth sequence out of the house. So like clearly she
Speaker 3: could just at any point in the night like up
Speaker 3: and leave, presumably quietly without anyone else noticing.
Speaker 1: That's fast asleep in bed as always, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she loves me, always getting a good night's sleep.
Speaker 2: All ten hours every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that weather though you're sleeping on the outside pretty
Speaker 1: much like like obviously there's stuck to do, but when
Speaker 1: you're camping, that's some of the best sleeps ever. You're
Speaker 1: just sleeping in the great outdoors. So that's this guy.
Speaker 3: So mm hmm, Yeah, this is the most relaxed. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is this is a pivot, but one thing and
Speaker 3: I think it's it's kind of what you're saying there, Travis,
Speaker 3: of like the food theory, it's not fully there, but
Speaker 3: just like a lot of obscure, nasty, weird things happening
Speaker 3: with and related to animals in this right, Like the
Speaker 3: first thing I think we see is that they're one
Speaker 3: of the chicken eggs I guess like didn't survive. There's
Speaker 3: like a dead baby chicken there. Of course, when the
Speaker 3: when the fall is trying to aim his gun at
Speaker 3: the rabbit, that's when he gets like shot in the eye.
Speaker 3: The dog dies pretty early on the goat starts squirting
Speaker 3: blood instead of milk. The crow scene obviously we brought
Speaker 3: that up, and then the goat. So yeah, a lot
Speaker 3: of weird, strange things happen happening to animals, which I
Speaker 3: guess is maybe just like easier for a witch to
Speaker 3: control an animal or or I think so even like
Speaker 3: maybe now that I'm thinking about more, maybe it's not
Speaker 3: the the witch transforming into the rabbit and acting as
Speaker 3: the rabbit, because once again, if it was that Anya scene,
Speaker 3: and let's say she is the witch in that moment,
Speaker 3: then obviously like her and the rabbit exist in different spots.
Speaker 3: But more so that maybe like a simple creature like
Speaker 3: that is easy to command for a witch.
Speaker 1: I would think so for sure. I just think more
Speaker 1: it's kind.
Speaker 3: Of just smaller than animal, the easier to control.
Speaker 1: Weak mind like not that bundy, Like I'm sure bunnies.
Speaker 3: Are Bunnies are weak minded. What are you gonna do? Like,
Speaker 3: but I mean the bunny listeners.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, I mean compared to like if we look
Speaker 1: at the food chain, I think we're much higher on
Speaker 1: the bunny that are much higher than the bunny, right,
Speaker 1: So that's where I think we're supposed to And they
Speaker 1: don't know I imagine they don't know about witches and
Speaker 1: hell and sinning and stuff, so they don't have those
Speaker 1: sorrows trouble. They're sleeping better than the dad, you know,
Speaker 1: at night. So m.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just kind of attribute that to like a
Speaker 6: witchcraft type type thing of them just messing with livestock
Speaker 6: and animals and just especially like even the crops, right,
Speaker 6: Like you could you could say that that's witchcraft, that's
Speaker 6: just making all their crops moldy. You could just be
Speaker 6: terrible land And that's just the way that it goes,
Speaker 6: because that's probably the reality of life.
Speaker 5: Back doesn't doesn't she call him up for being a
Speaker 5: ship farmer, like you just go back and cut wood like.
Speaker 1: You limp dick.
Speaker 3: It did seem like he had a lot of like
Speaker 3: maybe too much wood cut, So maybe you should have
Speaker 3: spend more time working on the cross.
Speaker 1: Was you should water more?
Speaker 6: But yeah, just just that's like attention to the animals.
Speaker 6: I definitely like sickening. I feel like just most of
Speaker 6: it is grotesque imagery, whether it's the like the the
Speaker 6: miscarriage I guess of an egg for like the little
Speaker 6: chicken there. They didn't have to show us the dog dying,
Speaker 6: but fuck they sure did, and those bastards just made
Speaker 6: it made it that much harder to see. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 6: I I just kind of attribute that to a which thing. Again,
Speaker 6: it's uh it's very warhammer like getting the uh the
Speaker 6: corruption of the livestock and all all those aspects. So yeah,
Speaker 6: I I I liked it for what it was, but
Speaker 6: I did not like seeing it. I feel like the
Speaker 6: crow scene, I remember seeing it, but when it was
Speaker 6: coming up, I forgot about it or I would have
Speaker 6: looked away. And it's just like, yeah, no, that's that's
Speaker 6: what I got. As I'm putting my you know, spoon
Speaker 6: of food in my mouth. I get that shot.
Speaker 2: Pause the movie, come back to this when I'm done eating.
Speaker 1: For me, it's a fact if like, obviously it's still
Speaker 1: like a disturbing scene. But what's so unsettling about it
Speaker 1: is so she's there. This is just after the second
Speaker 1: son has died and the baby, and then she's having
Speaker 1: this hallucination right that he's there and he has the baby,
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, he's gonna be so happier back,
Speaker 1: and then she starts to breastfeed the baby, which I
Speaker 1: feel like we all know even before it's okay, this
Speaker 1: is not gonna be good. But it's just like it's
Speaker 1: still like in a loving way, like, oh, I gotta
Speaker 1: switch size. But then when they hardcut to it later
Speaker 1: and the crow is just nipping at her, but she's
Speaker 1: also just like laughing, and it's so it's fucking is
Speaker 1: just rattling because it's just like she nobody like when
Speaker 1: they're breasting their babies, like laughing like that, right, So
Speaker 1: it's just like she's completely fucking mad, and it's just again,
Speaker 1: she also gets a good night sleep. She goes back
Speaker 1: in the bed and also falls asleep. So these people
Speaker 1: can just sleep like a rock. But yeah, that doesn't.
Speaker 3: Change her shirt's like no rocking.
Speaker 1: That's what gets me though. It's her laughing during that
Speaker 1: and she looks so bewildered. And great job by that actress.
Speaker 1: She does a phenomenal job just seeing like completely a
Speaker 1: different person and a good, good death scene too. Or
Speaker 1: she tries to kill on you and she's just she's
Speaker 1: just she's like a rabbit animal at that point too,
Speaker 1: She's like the goat where she's just doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: Anya would say in that moment, whatever has happened. She's
Speaker 1: just I'm gonna kill my daughter right here. And it
Speaker 1: is like a killer be killed. You either gotta kill
Speaker 1: me or I'm gonna kill you. And it's just like
Speaker 1: terrible scene if you think Anya is an innocent person
Speaker 1: in this, so it is brutal.
Speaker 3: I think I'm officially done with the trope of one
Speaker 3: character is being pinned down by the other character. Character
Speaker 3: on the ground struggles, swings their arm around, you get
Speaker 3: a cut shot of them reaching for a sharp object
Speaker 3: and smacking the person. I think I've seen that five
Speaker 3: too many times now and I don't want any movie
Speaker 3: to ever do it again. So I'm sure, you have
Speaker 3: some uh maybe planned and your I forget if there's
Speaker 3: one in a drenochrome.
Speaker 1: What is the specific scene again?
Speaker 3: Give me that again, character pinned on the ground. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then the character on the ground is flaming their arms.
Speaker 3: They reach for something sharp, they grab it and stab
Speaker 3: the person in the head and get them all some
Speaker 3: kind of have a struggling ground shot and a drenochrome.
Speaker 3: I do, but I like that, but it's different.
Speaker 1: I think, well, because the thing is, it's the the
Speaker 1: character sees it and then they purposely move in that
Speaker 1: direction to get set object. Does that make a better
Speaker 1: few instead of just flare like they see it?
Speaker 3: And I think, just the one that's here in the Witch,
Speaker 3: I've seen this exact shot a million times, but just
Speaker 3: onct object. She's probably done it in another movie to
Speaker 3: there's no there's none in the same probably did it
Speaker 3: in the menu, I don't remember, but she probably did
Speaker 3: so as well with her magic sword, you know all
Speaker 3: that stuff.
Speaker 1: I'll keep that in mind. I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: second movies, so I think we're good. We're good.
Speaker 3: I just feel like it doesn't Yeah, ten million. The
Speaker 3: person on the bottom always wins that exchange show. There's
Speaker 3: no there's no question about who's gonna come out on top.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah, yeah, anything else.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just want to quickly highlight some acting
Speaker 3: like Anya for her first movie, first major role, like it,
Speaker 3: did an amazing job here. There's one of her best
Speaker 3: roles still, I think, and I've seen quite a few
Speaker 3: of her movies. Now. Uh, Caleb the eldest son, Harvey
Speaker 3: crim Scrimshaws the name of the actor.
Speaker 1: I think it's great.
Speaker 3: He has to do some wild stuff, especially when he's seen. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when like the Exorcism scene when he when you I
Speaker 3: think he's about to get up on all the arms
Speaker 3: and walk like a spits the apple out like that.
Speaker 3: He does a really really great job there. And then
Speaker 3: of course both the parents do a really great job,
Speaker 3: especially Ralph. For me, he's kind of the standout between
Speaker 3: the two, and he just gets to do a little
Speaker 3: bit more other than the yeah, deep gravelly voice, which
Speaker 3: it's a great voice, but yeah, it is hard to
Speaker 3: hard to hear what he's saying exactly. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: think I think they all do a really good job. So,
Speaker 3: you know, shouts to.
Speaker 1: All the acting across the board, especially because it's the
Speaker 1: voice while trying to do like this like kind of
Speaker 1: old timy accent. I think that's the double because I've
Speaker 1: heard him like when he's a Green Knight. I feel
Speaker 1: like I didn't have any troubles then, So I feel
Speaker 1: like it's that combo of gravelly voice and using the
Speaker 1: the the and stuff, and.
Speaker 6: It's the type of movie I would expect to not
Speaker 6: be able to understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, subtitles, it feels authentic.
Speaker 6: Yeah, if you hear those like render of like what
Speaker 6: old English sounded like from like the Middle Ages, Like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I feel like he'd be pretty close to that.
Speaker 2: He's probably the guy in the videos doing doing all
Speaker 2: the readings. Yeah, Black Philip.
Speaker 6: I didn't notice his human form the first time around
Speaker 6: because it's a very dark film. And I kind it's
Speaker 6: interesting too, because like you don't really see until like
Speaker 6: you just get like the black hand like go on
Speaker 6: her shoulder, and like right away you just know that
Speaker 6: she's I feel like, okay, the witch stuff. I've seen
Speaker 6: shots of a witch. You know, you can make the
Speaker 6: argument it's just dream sequence or their imagining worst case scenario.
Speaker 6: As soon as Black Phillips starts speaking to Anya, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 6: she's she's doing She's.
Speaker 2: Just going to hell.
Speaker 6: She is full on in Satan's clutches here. And I
Speaker 6: like it though, because it's literally like what the first
Speaker 6: ten minutes I think when that like sequence happened, probably
Speaker 6: even less maybe last five minutes, like it's really the
Speaker 6: end of the film. Oh when he speaks and you
Speaker 6: just just made me think of the first eight minutes
Speaker 6: of this film as you see the witch eating that child.
Speaker 6: So it's they really get you in the the front
Speaker 6: of the back of this movie.
Speaker 5: I feel like black phillis making some pretty good deals
Speaker 5: on his end because he's like butter, Butter, Yeah, you
Speaker 5: can have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It didn't take the movie down for me at all.
Speaker 1: I didn't need the human form. I think I like
Speaker 1: it better just up to the net because like it's
Speaker 1: to me, it's always tough when you have like a
Speaker 1: representation of the devil and then like the human forms, like, well,
Speaker 1: should the devil have a human form per se? And
Speaker 1: if it does, Like so, I was fine with just
Speaker 1: the voice and the go and I think I didn't
Speaker 1: need the guy with the uh.
Speaker 6: I think it was mostly just surprising because I wasn't
Speaker 6: expecting a human because I didn't see it the first
Speaker 6: time around, but it's.
Speaker 2: I was also really tired of that first viewing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough for a point.
Speaker 3: I'm noteless over here, boys, other than trivia, noteless ny
Speaker 3: notes nay nay, really making us wait for that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my goodness. Okay, So if anyone was wondering the
Speaker 1: spelling of the title with the Witch with the double
Speaker 1: v's is how they used to write the word in
Speaker 1: the stories period because the letter W was not yet
Speaker 1: in common use at the time.
Speaker 3: Which you know, what is it called a double let's
Speaker 3: call it a double V.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that too, the bitch.
Speaker 1: According to cinematography, the cinematographer, the film was mostly sorry
Speaker 1: was shot mostly with available natural light, which is very impressive.
Speaker 1: And obviously they they I think I looked at it
Speaker 1: was only twenty five days shoots, so obviously they probably
Speaker 1: just had there from to like I don't know, eight
Speaker 1: to you know, sundown or whatever. But I've been there.
Speaker 1: We just we've shot again recently and we're gonna do
Speaker 1: it again this week. We're shooting stuff outside and there's
Speaker 1: always a point where we're outside. I'm like, fuck, I
Speaker 1: never want to shoot any movie outside anymore because all
Speaker 1: it takes is just some turn with the weather something.
Speaker 1: It's like, man, this is a match up. It's a pain.
Speaker 1: So good for them that I just kind of all
Speaker 1: worked and it all looked like whatever time of year
Speaker 1: they shot, it's always like kind of cloudy and foggy.
Speaker 1: So I think that that environment seemed to work out
Speaker 1: a lot for them. But uh. The premise is based
Speaker 1: on the America's first witch hysteria, set sixty two years
Speaker 1: before the infamous Salem witch trials in Massachusetts. This is
Speaker 1: kind of like the big So this is where it's
Speaker 1: like it's you gotta think about, like people are already
Speaker 1: scared of witches and it's like a hysteria. This is
Speaker 1: like sixty two years before it gets to that like
Speaker 1: really bad. Like I said, those memes of like you
Speaker 1: do math and like that's a witch, you know, like
Speaker 1: of like if anythings, if a woman does anything that
Speaker 1: is even smarter than the males, they're just gonna And
Speaker 1: there's people that you know, abuse that that would get
Speaker 1: people killed by just saying they're witches, but really they
Speaker 1: did nothing. But uh, but yeah, kind of what we've
Speaker 1: talked about the director designed the film to be interpreted
Speaker 1: two ways, literally as if the family was besieged by
Speaker 1: real witches and satanic forces, or figuraively as the family
Speaker 1: has to come to a shared psychosist to their strained
Speaker 1: circumstances and beliefs. They're small hints about the film that
Speaker 1: could serve as a reasonable causes behind the events beyond
Speaker 1: the obvious supernatural, such as the contaminated food that caused
Speaker 1: hallucinations back in the day, repressed sexual desires, and extreme isolation.
Speaker 1: The director state, it's up to the viewer and he
Speaker 1: will not answer any of those so and he would
Speaker 1: not also answer if he's had any other worldly interactions
Speaker 1: like ghosts, whatever, stuff like that. He just had no comment,
Speaker 1: so kind of I think some interviewers asked if he
Speaker 1: believed in the stuff and just no.
Speaker 5: Hey, then you gotta ge him on cryptid clues and
Speaker 5: break that open. Yeah, that's gonna be a you know,
Speaker 5: a hard cell. But I can I don't know how
Speaker 5: do I how do I get him? Get him on
Speaker 5: the show and ask him.
Speaker 1: Well, you get him on the show, and then you
Speaker 1: also get him to produce a film for us. And
Speaker 1: we talked to him, you know, one thing at a time.
Speaker 2: We'll do the Cryptid Clues appearance first and then start
Speaker 2: talked about going.
Speaker 4: Do a which sequel, but we'll have us cast in it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do which sequel that.
Speaker 3: He's having the crow come for their nips.
Speaker 2: I'll sacrifice a boo.
Speaker 1: Is Taylor then just not me? Quentin Robert Eggers. He
Speaker 1: did not direct Harvey Scrimshaw through most of his difficult scenes,
Speaker 1: and those scenes Scrimshaw was directed by Ralph Innoson. Aggars
Speaker 1: had no children at the time, and while Innoson was
Speaker 1: the father of two and frequently was an acting coach
Speaker 1: or instructor to children and knew but much better how
Speaker 1: to coach young children. This was not planned, but Agars,
Speaker 1: amid the Ensign's coaching uh was had a oh. He
Speaker 1: had a hard time understanding Anger's direction. Agers Ensign used
Speaker 1: Scrimshaw's passion for soccer and coached him like he was
Speaker 1: preparing for a high stakes game of football. So I
Speaker 1: guess which the reason that I put that in is
Speaker 1: like that. To me, it's just a sign of a
Speaker 1: good director where he's trying to direct this kid. It
Speaker 1: ain't working. He like and he says it's in like
Speaker 1: a pause away because that a good story. Just like
Speaker 1: not working. He's not getting what I'm putting down. He
Speaker 1: recognizes that Richard is like works with kids and acting
Speaker 1: like hey, why don't you work with him? So all
Speaker 1: that stuff like that possession stuff like oh he's a
Speaker 1: kid as well, but that's I call the Richard. Ralph
Speaker 1: is helping him a lot through that. So I just
Speaker 1: put that in. There's like a great note by a
Speaker 1: direct and didn't like get all like, oh, this kid's
Speaker 1: not fucking listen to me and I'm the guy and
Speaker 1: said like, hey, how do we get through this kid? Well,
Speaker 1: you work with the kids, right, like, go work with them,
Speaker 1: And it worked and it probably helps you. Theyre supposed
Speaker 1: to be father and son, so it kind of builds
Speaker 1: that dynamic.
Speaker 3: But it's so wholesome. I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah trivia fact.
Speaker 2: It makes their like one on one scenes just that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah or whatnot? Yeah, most of the film's dialogue and
Speaker 1: story were based on writings from the time, and they
Speaker 1: go there's a bunch of trivia about all the different
Speaker 1: uh like uh studying they did and investigations and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Let's see This is his directional film debut.
Speaker 1: He had only done some short movies and written a
Speaker 1: script for The Witch. Unbeknownst to him, his editor friend
Speaker 1: Luis Ford, had passed the script on the producers Lars
Speaker 1: Knudsen and Jay van Hoy. That's when j van Hoy,
Speaker 1: with whom she was working with at time, Aggers was
Speaker 1: horrified because he didn't consider the script finish. But fortunately
Speaker 1: the producers loved it. They suggested that he simplify the
Speaker 1: structure because originally the script was divided into five and
Speaker 1: we're told from the perspective of each family member, and
Speaker 1: then four years later they made it into a movie.
Speaker 1: So good, good friend Louis steals the script, gives the
Speaker 1: producers he's mad about it, and then like here but yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that was the original script which I could
Speaker 1: see as producers like simp fine and also like I am.
Speaker 1: I would love to read it though that version, because
Speaker 1: I'd love to see, like we talk about the twins,
Speaker 1: like what's their chapter? Because I mentioned the five chapters
Speaker 1: are like Anya, the brother, the mom, dad, and you'd
Speaker 1: have to be unless the chapter could have been from
Speaker 1: the Witch or the Santanic point of view.
Speaker 3: But it was a take away some of the ambiguity of.
Speaker 1: It, I think especially Yeah, so I think I think
Speaker 1: they found a better way there. During the witch hunts
Speaker 1: of the of America, it was wide they believe that
Speaker 1: a witch could not say the entire Lord's prayer. This
Speaker 1: is why the family soapst when Mercy and Joans are
Speaker 1: unable to finish the prayer. So that's why they I
Speaker 1: was wondering what was going on here, Yeah, because it
Speaker 1: is like I jumped it is this thing, like, there's
Speaker 1: all this evidence against Anya. She says one thing and
Speaker 1: that's like, oh, they kind of turned the twin. But
Speaker 1: she says this, But then I also they didn't finish
Speaker 1: the prayer and they were lying about being dead. So
Speaker 1: again there's other things in there. This is my this
Speaker 1: is the last year. This is my favorite thing. There
Speaker 1: were more scenes planned to evolve Black film, but because
Speaker 1: he was not a well trained goat, those ideas had
Speaker 1: to be scrapped. Well in the scenes when Philip lunges
Speaker 1: and struggles with the father was not ridden. It just happened.
Speaker 1: So obviously not the scene where he died, but just
Speaker 1: other things. And it's so funny because I know this
Speaker 1: sounds stupid, but there was a moment where Annie was
Speaker 1: looking at him. It's before the shit hits the fan,
Speaker 1: and then it's just Shaw the goat, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is a shot of a goat, like they're trying
Speaker 1: to make it scary of like he's just a goat
Speaker 1: and it sounds weird, but like, I feel like there
Speaker 1: are animals that are trained and have like an on
Speaker 1: screen like charisma or something. It's probably because they are
Speaker 1: trained so they have like a live look. But I
Speaker 1: remember looking at them and like, this looks like a goat.
Speaker 1: Like I know it's suposed to be the devil, but
Speaker 1: like there's nothing intimidating really about Black Pilp. He just
Speaker 1: looks like a regular goat. So I kind of laughed
Speaker 1: when I read the trivia, like yeah, he wasn't he's
Speaker 1: not well trained. I'm like, yeah, you got the worst
Speaker 1: black coat you could find find out there.
Speaker 2: But I disagree.
Speaker 6: I thought it was scary because it was just really
Speaker 6: I feel like goats are terrifying animals.
Speaker 1: I wasn't of this. It's just like he's just like
Speaker 1: he just looked regular. But yeah, I guess there was
Speaker 1: no terrifying, no.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, tell me to murder my family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you find a goat scary?
Speaker 5: I mean as a little kid, No, but they're usually
Speaker 5: they're associated with Satanism. Satanism as to the question, yes,
Speaker 5: I do, Okay, okay you but no, I wonder what
Speaker 5: other scenes they had.
Speaker 1: But you know, I I also will say that again,
Speaker 1: like the changes in the script, I think it worked
Speaker 1: better having because I already didn't like him having human form.
Speaker 1: I think it worked better having him in smaller a
Speaker 1: mouths because like, like, is there some scene where he's
Speaker 1: like planning to chase the characters? Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like I think black Philips in there the right amount
Speaker 1: in my opinion. So yeah, Tilmus, what are you scoring
Speaker 1: this thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah? This is this is this is my I feel
Speaker 3: like my favorite kind of cast where I come into
Speaker 3: something either negative or just indifferent, which is how I
Speaker 3: would describe myself on this one. And by the end
Speaker 3: of it, I like it a lot more. I appreciate
Speaker 3: it a lot more, and I want to watch it again.
Speaker 3: And so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with what
Speaker 3: I did for like four or five years there. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to give this a rating. Because I feel
Speaker 3: like I need to see it again. I would feel
Speaker 3: right giving it a number right here and now. I
Speaker 3: don't think i'll rewatch it soon, so you'll have to
Speaker 3: wait for that. But maybe the next couple of years,
Speaker 3: I'll rewatch it and then I'll drop a rating on
Speaker 3: a newscast. But yeah, I'm really glad we had the
Speaker 3: discussion because I have a much greater appreciation for it
Speaker 3: now than I did yesterday evening.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not telling you what to do, but
Speaker 1: you could wait because my hope is at some point
Speaker 1: when I were doing these retro Golden Geeks for Geek
Speaker 1: first Day and stuff. As I said last year, the
Speaker 1: year I won is twenty fifteen, because that's the one
Speaker 1: year that we don't have for Geeek fir Us. When
Speaker 1: we started, we didn't do gold Geek, So i'd say
Speaker 1: getting hold off to that because I think at some
Speaker 1: point it will do twenty fifteen, and I would love
Speaker 1: to see even if that main top. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's some acting that would make it. But this I
Speaker 1: feel I feel like we're gonna revisit it in our
Speaker 1: next our next decade at some point, so it might
Speaker 1: yeah to be continued like that, mister Field.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm probably gonna go a I go. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: I'm gonna degenerous. I'm gonna go an eight out of ten.
Speaker 5: I feel like it's just scared. The goats scare me
Speaker 5: so fucking bad. General, it's just the the scenes where
Speaker 5: you do see just it's they could have done so
Speaker 5: much more with the Witch. They could have just presented
Speaker 5: her as just this like full frontal terrifying like entity
Speaker 5: or demon.
Speaker 4: But it's full frontal.
Speaker 5: You want something, Chara, I say full frontal specifically because
Speaker 5: you only got one scene of like the Witch may
Speaker 5: be cocking her head to the side after she's drinking
Speaker 5: her coat, but for the most part, every other scene
Speaker 5: of just this old, haggard, jaggered witch is just her
Speaker 5: from her like her back and her long hair, and
Speaker 5: she's just like she's up to some crazy shit, like
Speaker 5: doing something, and it's just it's eerie. It's suspenseful, it's tense,
Speaker 5: and it's just has this sense of known, unknown mystery
Speaker 5: to it. It's just it's eerie. And so I really
Speaker 5: like how they did that. They didn't they leave it
Speaker 5: up to your kind of imagination, because I've said this
Speaker 5: before once you kind of paint like a like a
Speaker 5: picture of what this thing is that you're dealing with,
Speaker 5: and you can kind of it takes away that fear,
Speaker 5: but if you leave it up to your own imagination,
Speaker 5: it kind of keeps that more scared fear factor in
Speaker 5: your mind. And so I think that's what this witch
Speaker 5: definitely does a good job of doing, keeping that kind
Speaker 5: of element in your in your mind.
Speaker 4: So I like that a lot. And yeah, just the fact.
Speaker 5: That they were kicked out of their village for having
Speaker 5: different religious beliefs and they they had this whole setup
Speaker 5: and you know, things or could have been okay, but yeah,
Speaker 5: they just handled it very very poorly.
Speaker 4: Holy shit.
Speaker 5: And is that why I believe it was because they
Speaker 5: know they had different beliefs on I think that I
Speaker 5: think it was like the New Testament something religious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something like that because they all they also
Speaker 1: just like refer to like if the baby is gonna
Speaker 1: go to Hell because it's like, I don't know, because
Speaker 1: they're not born, it's not born out of wedlock. But
Speaker 1: she makes some sort of comment about like is the
Speaker 1: baby in hell? Like almost insinuating because they say.
Speaker 2: It wasn't baptized.
Speaker 1: I thought, right, that's what it was. Right. So that's
Speaker 1: the situation where because you could go and say, oh,
Speaker 1: if he was baptized, maybe knowing this would have happened,
Speaker 1: Like I'm saying, like, they're probably playing in their head.
Speaker 1: So that's where there's another thing where I feel like
Speaker 1: they read into they're being punished for they're just back
Speaker 1: away from certain religious aspects, right, And it's like, uh,
Speaker 1: you probably because even then, like when the dad makes
Speaker 1: that prayer, he says like take me and the mom,
Speaker 1: but at least just like save the kids. So like
Speaker 1: there's part of him that probably thinks that because they
Speaker 1: win against the oh Holy, this is being brought down
Speaker 1: upon them. Right.
Speaker 6: So it just seems like throughout there they're all very religious,
Speaker 6: like like they're all praying like before or they eat
Speaker 6: and like doing all those things that in my mind
Speaker 6: seems like religious people. So I was just a little
Speaker 6: bit confused because I feel like maybe I wasn't as
Speaker 6: intently focusing when they were having like the council and
Speaker 6: then when he was just getting sent out, and remember
Speaker 6: the dad kind of shit talking.
Speaker 2: Them like you guys, you guys suck. What do we
Speaker 2: want to be here.
Speaker 6: We'll go big paraphrase there, but yeah, it's definitely not my.
Speaker 1: Robert fucking suck get the ship right out of here,
Speaker 1: just making Fineapple Express over here, Robert Eggers, Kirkling, what
Speaker 1: you drop in here?
Speaker 2: Are you done?
Speaker 3: Taylor?
Speaker 2: I kind of jumped in, Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: This one's tricky because I don't really think there's much
Speaker 6: wrong with this film, like other than just some grotesque scenes,
Speaker 6: but I think they add to the overall you know
Speaker 6: what they're going for with the which folk tale aspect
Speaker 6: to it. I guess maybe something that I would improve
Speaker 6: on if I had to coach Robert Eggers on how
Speaker 6: to be a better director.
Speaker 1: That one movie. And he's like, you know what, Robert,
Speaker 1: you know we didn't. You didn't we didn't have a
Speaker 1: scene where someone was pinned down and they they reach
Speaker 1: for something. You know.
Speaker 6: I think it's more so just maybe like have more
Speaker 6: ambiguity on like if it is not actually more yeah,
Speaker 6: because I think the end makes it pretty clear of
Speaker 6: like okay, they're actually as witches, and but like I
Speaker 6: also maybe those scenes taken out, so I don't know,
Speaker 6: maybe I wouldn't give that.
Speaker 1: Again, don't you think she could just come across a
Speaker 1: group of naked women. She's hallucinating. Even at the end,
Speaker 1: I guess, So, I guess my last factory had her five.
Speaker 3: Minutes away from their house that they've been living in.
Speaker 1: Well it's empty now. Even at the end though, if
Speaker 1: you go back and watch it, the last show of
Speaker 1: the movie is her floating up. There's no one buyer
Speaker 1: to her alone.
Speaker 2: Well, they flew ahead of her, that's why.
Speaker 1: Okay, sure, yeah you could say that, but like I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, like the final show of the movie is
Speaker 1: Aya entrees behind her. It's not they could easily put
Speaker 1: more witches by side. Even just seeing little hands, it's
Speaker 1: just Onya. So that's where it's like anna thing for me.
Speaker 1: It's like it's still left up like either she it's
Speaker 1: all on her fucking mind or whatever the case is.
Speaker 1: She could just be like seeing like, oh yeah there's
Speaker 1: other witches there, that's my coven. But it's like, why
Speaker 1: aren't they be signing her again? Why didn't she talk
Speaker 1: to or see that witch has been hunting her family again?
Speaker 1: So I'm surprised you need more AMBI bigody.
Speaker 6: I think I think it's more so like Okay, when's
Speaker 6: Black Philips speaking to her and like you see the
Speaker 6: devil grab her shoulder, It's like it's not really up
Speaker 6: for antiguity there. But I guess you can make the
Speaker 6: counter argument that it is just more corn affecting her brain, right,
Speaker 6: more moldy corn. So everybody fair counter argument there.
Speaker 2: But I still think this is top top.
Speaker 6: Quality film, especially like if I ever have to recommend
Speaker 6: a Witch movie to someone, I'd recommend this if.
Speaker 2: They want a true Witch experience.
Speaker 6: No Halloween Town bullshit, No Wizards of Waving Your Place
Speaker 6: or Harry Potter five year olds.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna watch hooks. Focus. No, we're watching the Witch.
Speaker 6: We're watching the Witch, and everyone's focusing on pausing, if
Speaker 6: your eyes, taking phones, nothing.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 6: I I think like I want to give it a
Speaker 6: perfect score because I just don't see much wrong with it.
Speaker 6: I think I think I'm gonna have to ten ten
Speaker 6: for this movie. Yeah, which is crazy for where I
Speaker 6: was the first viewing of never wanting to see this again.
Speaker 6: So thank you God Loves the sixty nine for pitching
Speaker 6: this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all voted, I am with you there where I
Speaker 1: think it's like I don't want to say, like an
Speaker 1: me in the middle, because I feel like my enjoyment
Speaker 1: level is like a nine, because I said, like, this
Speaker 1: is not a movie I'll put on all time. I
Speaker 1: need to be in the right mood. I'll take a
Speaker 1: break here. But like on a craftsmanship, it's like a ten.
Speaker 1: So like you should go, oh, well that's the nine
Speaker 1: point five. But for this one, I'm giving you both scores.
Speaker 1: I usually like to com buying them. No, my enjoyments
Speaker 1: the nine, my as just as the film's like yeah,
Speaker 1: I and again now that I have this is the
Speaker 1: third time I've watched it, and each time it's like, man,
Speaker 1: this gets better and better. And that's the good thing
Speaker 1: about stuff like this or Hereditary, like some of these
Speaker 1: deeper horror films that it takes and that's why, like
Speaker 1: I fucking love the Shining, you know, like it's these
Speaker 1: these films that just fester with you, but each time
Speaker 1: you watch them, it gets stronger and stronger, just stays consistent.
Speaker 1: And that's what's been very good that stuff like even Hereditary,
Speaker 1: when I watch the first time, I don't love as much.
Speaker 1: Everybody And now, okay, that's close to a ten, or
Speaker 1: is a ten and that's where this is. And uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'll be on the fourth watch because
Speaker 1: now I feel like we've talked about a few more
Speaker 1: things I didn't even think about, or just different perspectives,
Speaker 1: and those are the best type of films. That's that's
Speaker 1: something and Agres does a good job of that. Maybe
Speaker 1: they don't always hit as much because like I think
Speaker 1: Lighthouse doesn't have as much as that, but you are
Speaker 1: lighthouses like that too. Northman's not really Northman's a very
Speaker 1: clean cut revenge tale, right, so, and I'm very curious
Speaker 1: what Nosaratu is gonna be like because I feel like
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a very clean cut, like there's a
Speaker 1: vampire fucking yeah, like there is, but I wonder I
Speaker 1: feel like he's just gonna like this vampire is fucking
Speaker 1: this town up and here we go. But you never know, right.
Speaker 6: So watching this, I'm like, Oh, there's gonna be some
Speaker 6: disgusting scenes in os Feradu guarantee.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely absolutely. I'm very talk about that curl and
Speaker 1: the nipple. I'm very worried about crol on the other
Speaker 1: nip we have Bill Scars guards not for a tu
Speaker 1: on a nippo because like a nippo Because when that
Speaker 1: last trailer and she's talking about like you can't fuck
Speaker 1: me like him, I'm like, what like that means we're
Speaker 1: getting as for aw to sex sy and it's gonna
Speaker 1: be fucking something. I'm telling you it's it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be good, but it's gonna be good. But uh yeah
Speaker 1: we will. As we've said before, if you're listening there,
Speaker 1: there will not be a no for aught to review
Speaker 1: right away because that is on Christmas, but whether it's
Speaker 1: golden because I guess it's technically in uh twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: so we'll probably tell them for gold geeks, so yeah,
Speaker 1: look out for it then. But yes, thank you everybody
Speaker 1: voted and God loves me six Steine for giving this
Speaker 1: to us to talk about. Hope everyone has a happy
Speaker 1: Halloween and this enjoyed this, And yeah, if you haven't
Speaker 1: watched this, I guess we spoil everything, so you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have done that. But until then it won't be boring.
Speaker 1: Y