Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentleman, and welcome to your annual Halloween retrospective.
I'm the clown Prince of Goats Travis Stale. I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: I am the Sinner trekn Patzer.
Speaker 3: I'm the Crow del Mus.
Speaker 4: The Silver Cup Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: Yes, ladies, gentlemen, as you just heard lots of names
going around. This is the annual one we have done this. This
is the third year we've done this. Maybe we did
in the past, but it was just maybe one offer
getting ready for another Hallowe retro But now we do
this every year. We have done Oh god, what was
the I think it was the Thin Man or not
the thin Man? What is that? The empty Man? Right?
That we did and then we did Yeah, we did
it follows and now we're doing the Witch, which you know,
I appreciate somewhat because it's timely, as like Robert Agers
has a movie coming out, So thanks for patrons for
making sure we got timely content out there, because he
does have the nos Fat too coming up. But you
can look on the feeds. We have reviewed Northmen, we
have reviewed Lighthouse, so this kind of is perfect because
we've not we've talked about the Witch tons of times
I feel like on this podcast and even talking about Aras,
but we've never actually reviewed The Witch. So it's kind
of a good way to like close off that filmography.
So we've done that. But yeah, thank you to all
the patrons. You guys gave out lots of votes and
everything like that. I will I forgot to shout out
who gave it. I'll go find out who actually put
the suggestion in. But yeah, we'll do the same probably,
you know Christmas we do last year. You know, when
we get to the springtime, we'll do a video game one.
We do any ones all the time, so look out
for those. And if you like retrospectives currently and for
the until like July August, we're gonna be having the
Superman and Fantastic four retrospectives are exclusive to Patron and
the other retrospectives as I'm gonna start promoting this to
put feet to their fire. Daredevil seasons one to three
will be dropping in December, January, and February, so there
you go, So look out for those. So a lot
of guarantee, Big GV guarantee you there, Yeah, or they
lose five er sense of their share. But this is
here for Halloween times. So, mister Muss, have you seen
this movie before? If you have, what did you think
about it then? And then what do you think about now?
In October twenty second, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, I've not seen this movie before. I definitely
seen it when I'm scrolling through Netflix and things like that.
Never got around to it. And then yeah, watched Lighthouse,
and you know, I enjoyed Lighthouse at the time. It's
like a great meme, very juicy meme movie, but like,
I've never wanted to go back and watch it again.
I don't know how well would hold up. And the
north Man. You guys were very hot on, but I
didn't really care for it too much. Was not my
cup of tea. So I'm not too knowledgeable on this
director of not done the deep bug on his older stuff.
But this this is it really on IMDb?
Speaker 4: I swear.
Speaker 1: I think he's also a short film I think he
has short films, but I don't think there's an actual
film film. At least make.
Speaker 3: Sure that I've seen every single one of his movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, say You're in the darkcore fan.
Speaker 3: I I did not enjoy this movie. There was very
little for me to enjoy. I hate using this word,
but I just found it very boring. I feel like
it takes a long time to pick up, and then
like its pick up is like the last like ten
minutes the movie. There's some crazy stuff that happens, but
even then, I kind of wanted more of certain things,
the titular witch. I wanted like some more witch action
going on. I don't know. I feel like there is
there is some theme or message or something that this
movie's portraying, and I didn't pick up on any of it.
That meant it meant nothing to me. So I'm curious
to hear what your guys is interpretations of some of
the things going on are. But to me, it was
just very dry, very slow, quite uninteresting. And you know,
I was trying to find some fun little details, but
I just I wasn't really digging up much when I
was doing that. So, yeah, this was this was kind
of uninteresting. It was pretty short, I guess, but it
felt like it dragged on because of how slow it is.
But I don't see myself rewatching this one. But it
was at and go back say his first future film.
Go Back see Anya's I think first movie that she did,
and she did like a TV show episode before this
or something, so it's fun to go back and see that,
but otherwise not not really much for me here, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Tayar Field, was there much for you on a first
watch where we were like, damn, was this your first
time watching it?
Speaker 5: This is my second time watching it. I remember watching
this movie when I was a few years back, younger,
You're not young, not young anymore, I think I before
I met Madison, Uh yeah, and I was looking for
something kind of just scary and spooky, and I heard
that this.
Speaker 4: Was just kind of like on edge of a movie.
It wasn't really anything like scary, just just tense.
Speaker 5: So I remember giving it a watch, and this time
I feel like I still feel the same as I
did back then, where it's just like I kind of
do enjoy just this descent into chaos and madness and
how everything kind of crumble for this family.
Speaker 4: But it's not like it's not.
Speaker 5: Breaking records for being like one of my favorite movies
or anything like that. And if I was going to
pick a horror movie, i'd probably pick something else over
this one. But I think that it's not It's neither
is it gonna be like the last time I'd ever
watched this movie in a couple of years. I could
probably see myself like, yeah, you know what, maybe I
want to pop it on and just have this tense
experience where you're just seeing this family fall apart in
this mysterious witch kind of scenario unravel because I feel
like it's very psychological, and half the time you wonder like, Okay,
is it really just this this witch doing shit or
is it thomasin I feel like at the end you
kind of get like a little bit more of a confirmation,
but before you get to that, you really don't know,
and it's just like everyone's pointing fingers and you're trying
to figure out what's going on. And there are some
very creepy elements to this, and I forgot a lot
of the stuff in here, except for a couple things,
but the.
Speaker 4: Introduction of the witch. We'll talk more about all that
stuff later.
Speaker 5: But I did not like that scene with the with
the baby and ship.
Speaker 4: I just when of that saw that happened, I was like, Fuck.
Speaker 3: I don't like that. That's just man, that's just fucking brutal.
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm hungry, I want to go make
some food. Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 4: Was that was That was brutal. That was gross.
Speaker 2: It's pretty early on too, that is early on. Yeah,
And that was me first scene.
Speaker 4: That is first scene that was.
Speaker 5: Me watching it like dead like this morning, like five
through to am watch the Witch. This is not a
start day star to start to day like, that's.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, interesting, Yeah, I'll go next.
Speaker 6: It was my second time viewing this film. I think
I watched the first one around the time of The Lighthouse.
Like I think it was just because of Robert Aggers
and I had always heard about this movie. Maybe that
was around the time when I was like Andy Taittor
Joy was starting to bounce on my radar, and I
always confused this film with it's either a Nicholas Cage
or a Vin Diesel movie about a witch. I can't
remember which one it is, but I always thought this
was that film. So when I when I put it
on back in the day, I'm I can't believe Robert
Eggers like made this thinking of like the Lighthouse to
this weird Vin Diesel or or like or Nicholas Cage, Like.
Speaker 2: I I'll find it. It's called the Last Witch or
something the Latin.
Speaker 1: The last witch Hunter is ven Diesel Right, is.
Speaker 2: There Nicholas Cage one about a witch?
Speaker 4: Yeah, with that Ron Pearlman.
Speaker 2: That was the one that I totally thought that movie.
Speaker 4: Own that movie. It's fucking great.
Speaker 1: I love Season of the Witch.
Speaker 5: Season Witch fucking great movie.
Speaker 6: Okay, So bouncing into this one, I'm like, yeah, it's weird.
Robert Egger's pretty different from Lighthouse. It's a pretty cool
and right away I was proven that that was not
the case. This is very much not a movie I
was expecting of, just like the maybe like the hardcore
elements of a being a period piece, like I think
the first time I watched this, like it's just I
should start by saying I did not like this movie.
The first time I watched this at all. I I
really despised it. I told myself I was never gonna
watch it again. Like it just wasn't a fun watch.
I think I watched it late at night when I
was tired. I don't think I understood a single word
they said because I didn't have subtitles on, like when
I was watching it the.
Speaker 1: First time round.
Speaker 6: And it is hard to phenomenal actor like the perfect
casting for this role.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I cannot understand a fucking word he said, and.
Speaker 1: Our next collects get ready great voice.
Speaker 3: So I'm excited for subtitles and.
Speaker 1: It's like all of us in the theater, like, what
the fuck's Galactus talking about.
Speaker 6: I feel like at the end of the movie too,
on my first viewing, like I was just so confused
on what was even happening. I probably like faded in
and out, like I was saying, like it was like
a fever dream because I just watched it late at night,
and like your point till like it it isn't a
it isn't a long movie, but it felt really long
like the first time I watched it, which is really
interesting because this time around, I had subtitles. I was
not tired when I was watching this. I watched it
in like appropriate time of the day, and I loved
this movie. The second time around, it was really really
interesting because I knew all the main beats that were
going to be happening. But I think just now, maybe
because I did like a glossary, you know, like skim
of it the first time around, jumping into it now,
like I'm kind of aware of what's going on, and
I think just like the big moments hit a lot
better for me. I appreciated the performance is so much
more the just like the costume designs and everything. Like
it's a pretty simple movie. It makes sense that this
would be his first film because most of it is
just kind of at their farm and like it's not
that crazy of set pieces or anything like that. Like
it it feels like a cheaper movie to make.
Speaker 1: I think just fits in the set to go Yeah, yeah, goat.
Speaker 2: And the and the goat.
Speaker 6: You need you need the goat and some some fake
blood for sure. But yeah, I think it's interesting because
I do really love this movie, but it's not one
I would revisit often. I will watch it again. It's
not really like a go to Halloween movie.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 6: It's more so like if I'm having a conversation with
someone about like a witch movie, this would be the
witch movie that I'd recommend of, like one that actually
feels like a true folk tale?
Speaker 2: Which movie where it?
Speaker 6: I think it pulls a lot from like a like
a classic folk tale of Well, that's a stupid thing
to say because it's literally in the subtitle of the movie.
What is that a new England folk tale, but more
so just like the more realistic take on a witch
and the witch's stories and like how fearful they are
because they kind of get cartoonized cartoon cartoonized, that's not
a word cartoonified, maybe just just as people grow up
because of Halloween and like we just see witches with
candy and like we just attribute to them in that sense.
But this project, like you do not get like a
cheerful Halloween witch by any any means in this movie,
Like they feel like monsters and literally like wars words
of Satan, and I think they do a good job
at kind of like making you wonder if it is
real or if it is just like they're so paranoid.
A lot of religious elements in this movie, and I
think a lot of like belief in here that I
really just was able to appreciate so much more on
a second viewing of like seeing the family kind of
fall apart and like, yeah, there is spoilers, there is
a witch in this movie, But like I still feel
like a lot of their problems I still think a
lot of the problems could have been dealt or like
handled better and not and with their whole family just
getting slaughtered because.
Speaker 2: Of the Witch. Like, I don't think the witch is
the main factor in that.
Speaker 1: She's the impetus. She's the hero of the story, the ampetus.
What does that even mean the inciting incident?
Speaker 6: Okay, yes, yes, true, But you can also make arguments
that it's like the family's fault for that happening, right,
like like so, I don't know, we'll get into it,
and we get into it.
Speaker 2: But I really really appreciate this movie. I feel like
the two parents.
Speaker 6: I love those actors as like character actors in like
those type of roles. I believe they were both in
The Green Knight and just like if they.
Speaker 1: Are, he's a Green Knight and then she's.
Speaker 3: The Uh right, I forgot she was in there too.
Speaker 1: She's the Queen. Yeah, but he plays the actual Green Knights.
Speaker 3: That's a fun connection.
Speaker 6: I like that, like he's in any period of this
period type movie, like they're just so good in it.
Speaker 1: I can't remember if he's in Lighthouse. I don't feel
like he is. I think he's the that's the only
people on that yeah movie.
Speaker 6: He's like the two other guys that they're replacing the
Mermaid here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that, yeah, I think, but yeah,
he's an as Vatu, so he's like his good luck
charm or whatnot.
Speaker 6: So I this is the type movie though that I
one hundred percent understand if no one likes or if
if they're people that are not liking this movie, because
I definitely did.
Speaker 2: Not like it at all first time around.
Speaker 6: I think you have to be just good timing with
when you're watching this, because yeah, if I if I
was putting this on five three in the morning before work,
like Taylor Field over here, that would not be a
good viewing time for me. But yeah, I really really
enjoy this one. Really fucked up it. Actually, I find
I'm just thinking of this right now. I feel like
the the witchiness affecting like the families in the Cities.
It's a big like parallel to some of like the
Empire stories and Total War Warhammer, so like I feel
like a lot of like that comparison just bleeds over.
So I'm like, oh, I just I just lovetal.
Speaker 3: War, like Peaky Blinders, like take a shot.
Speaker 4: That Robert plays a lot of Total War.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of Robert Eggers.
Speaker 6: I think I I think I have loved at one
point all of his films, So yeah, I'm looking forward
to Nosperado.
Speaker 2: Not a big fan of Lighthouse anymore.
Speaker 6: I thought I was the first time at one point
you did exactly more viewings. I like it less, but
I can still appreciate the quality of it, but just
not a rewatchable film.
Speaker 1: Taylor. I saw you trying to uh Webster Dictionary that
word impetus first word a driving.
Speaker 4: Force because I couldn't figure out its spelling.
Speaker 1: I am p e t e u s a driving force,
so like the witch is the force that drives them insanity,
like it mad? You know, it's just like what is
a story writing term? But uh yeah, So I had
seen this the year came out, and I remember this
is one of those classic movies that the build up
was huge because it was and shout out to them,
this is what made Robert Egger's queer because while we
were talking about the costume and everything. I think we
talked about this recently. But to bring up again, budget
four million dollars, made forty million, so right away, that's okay,
guaranteed hit, Like that's why he's done. I think so
many where I think like I don't know what. I
think we looked like Lighthouse made of profit, and I
think Northmand kind of ate shit and I don't know
what and noos Rotu's gonna eat shit again unfortunately, because
like Christmas Vampire great, but this, like this built the
Eggers House and the hype and everything, and to go
into that is I remember this and that one of
the scariest movies you'll ever see, best horror movie the
decade yet to Oh yeah, it had that whole hype.
So when I saw it the first time, I was like,
oh man, I can't fucking wait for this. And I
was much like you do, and I was like, this
is fucking born. I don't care that much. And obviously
there's no aunty hype train at this point I watched it.
I was still living at home when I watched it,
and my mom, who still has she does not have
a soundbar terrible TV speaker, so trying to hear Ralph
Innison on the TV was a struggle. And I did
not have subtitles at that point, so it was not
a good watch. And I remember being like, yeah, I
am not a not a fan of this movie, but
funny enough, just like I don't know why this fucking
keeps happening. Shout out to God Loves Me sixty nine,
who did recommend this movie. He was one that Yeah,
I only showed out so much to. These sales have
been on AFRIC nine since she abandoned my team at
the trivia battle versus Dylan's team, So I still salty
about that.
Speaker 3: Glorious he owes me.
Speaker 1: I'm all again, but somehow this keeps happening to me.
Where I watched The Empty Man for the first time
and then Clay recommends it that gets voted on it falls, Oh,
I have a cravey and watch that, and then three
months I watched that. I watched The Witch earlier again,
like at the beginning of this year, and I think
it was in the Nosforato hype because it's some image
or something, and I was like, oh, yeah, I gotta
go back to that one because I always want to
give it a chance, because it's always like when you
see twenty ten's Best of Horrors, the Witch is always
on their top ten lists, like it's like very acclaimed,
so it's like, I'm gonna get this chance. So of course, yeah,
I watched this movie. I don't know, six seven months ago,
and of course it went to a Hallingo pole, so
I have to just not watch any horror movies until
next year we do the Hollming Pole. Because I like,
I did really enjoy my second watch. I don't know
if I needed an immediate watch right away, but I
am like Kirkling where I second watch, Like I don't know,
saying loved is a weird thing because it's not even
like Joker. I say, I love that movie and it's depressing,
but I can go back and watch that like over
and over. This movie, I definitely need to be in
the right mood. It needs some time, but I definitely
think it is like I I don't know if it's
in my personal top ten, but I get the hype
and watching a second time definitely made me go, Okay,
I really enjoy this movie. And that's what even the
third time. Now, there's just certain stuff, just there's about
three things which you know, some people might not like.
I like this type of thing where there's about three
massive things in the story where it is your own
choose your own adventure. And Rob Berger's said, like I'm
not answering that, Like I'm not gonna tell you what is,
what it's like, you can leave that for yourself. And
I love that when it's done well. When a movie
does that poorly, it's just okay, it feels lazy. It's
just like, oh, you know, it's up to you. But
with this, I feel like it really works. The acting
all around is great. There's a few shots in here
that are just you know, we were talking about a
different cast. There's a shot in here on the Crow
that's still burned in my mind even since I saw
the first time, and I think, yeah, just this dread
of the witches. And what I love is each character,
maybe not the two kids, but other every other single
character has a fear and whether it is the witch
or the situation, that fear starts to build and build
and fox them all at the end. And I love
still even with Annie tayror Joy's character, there's people that
like argue that she is a witch the whole time
and she's just fucking with everybody, And you can watch
the movie and see like, oh, she might actually just
be evil and wanted to write her family and doesn't
matter if she's crying here there there's all these little
signs and yeah, I think this movie is outstandingly made.
And like I said, I need a second watch because
that first watch, I was like, this was I overhyped,
Never gonna watch this again. And then probably because I
liked Lighthouse and you know, in our sense, but then
I love Northman. I was okay, I gotta go back,
and I was glad I went back. And now I'm
gonna take a break for a while. I was like,
it falls again. I'm take a break. I don't need
to see the Witch for a while. But even this time,
I didn't feel like a awful watch. It's definitely really
slow at times, but I think it does. You know,
I'll be excited to watch it all fourth time because
each each watch I've had, I enjoy it more. So. Yeah, no,
I really do have this in high regard now. But
ask me, literally, god, what fourteen is this? Twenty ten?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Okay, twenty fifteen. Okay, I don't know where I read
twenty ten. I'm going nuts, But yeah, ask me eleven,
you know, nine years ago, not not some so wherever
we want to go with h the Witch? The Witch?
Speaker 3: I would love to ask you guys. Uh, I don't know.
I guess just hearing you guys, describe why you like
it is making me rethink like what I watched a
little bit to some extent, like I'll go with this
very obvious because Kirk, when you're talking about like you know,
did were they kind of building up to this they
like deserve this stuff for themselves or is it just
the witch fucking with them? It's like the inciting incident.
Like the first thing that really kicks it off is
like the baby going missing, And now I'm thinking about
that scene of like okay, well, yeah, Anya is the
only one there when that happens. So is there a
read on that scene that she just took and yeats
the baby? Because like when I was watching it, I
didn't take I didn't get that perspective at all that
like that was a possibility because that would kind of
just be like blatantly lying to the viewer. But it's
like that when you guys are rewatching it and thinking
about it and knowing everything is like not something that
you're thinking about of like, oh, maybe she did something
there because to me it seems like it's totally innocent.
But once again, after watch, maybe I wouldn't have that.
Speaker 6: It's interesting because like looking back on it, I feel
like Anya wasn't a witch the whole time, like after my.
Speaker 1: Agree of it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but like that that scene, like I can't really
explain it because unless the witch, like the real witch,
just slithered down of the grass or something of the
baby like instantly, it is too quick, it is unless
I was gonna say, unless she's like bewitched, like like
she actually like she closed her eyes for a second
and it's not actually been a second. I just think
the way that the scenes played out, it doesn't make
you think that, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, there's like magic in this world, right, like we
presumably the witch is trans like is transform you know,
what's the word I'm looking for into like the bunny rabbit,
Like I assume that's the witch that's cruising around there.
They're flying at the end. So once again, unless like
the things we're seeing are just lies to the viewer,
then it's like, well, there is magic, So it's not
shocking that the witch would bill to snap their fingers
and like teleport the baby away.
Speaker 6: I feel like how I would headcanon that is is
witch magic, like not Anya involved or maybe indirectly like
she got bewitched. I think that would be the only
real reason to have that scene, because I think you
could get to the end of this movie and make
the argument that it actually was eaten by a wolf
or something if you don't have the scene of the
naked witch making like the stew you know, right after that,
like you just hear the noises and everything, all the
gross sequences that Taylor listed earlier.
Speaker 1: That's the tough thing because like what Dylan says is
true if like, okay, in a real let's say, no
magic in a real world, there's no way to me,
like a wolf a woman comes by and gets the baby, right,
because you would hear that she doesn't look away that long,
So that doesn't make sense. That's why it's like there
has to be some sort of magical element. And that's
where I go, Okay, it still even could be on
you whether it is a bewitch, whether it is almost
like a wishing this baby away for some reason to
like hurt the family, and that is impetus for this
thing driving force, because that's the thing like with witches,
like it's always meaned about, right, but it's like, you know,
a woman would do something in that age and they'd
be like, that's a witch, like, you know, and they
would cast it upon them. And that's where it's like
even the they jump to and they talk about like
a witch and you know, the dad's no, it's a wolf,
and you know, they give these explanations, but like that's
something like, I know, it's a huge stretch because you
can't if you want to have Anya as a potential
witch character, you have to have her as like an
unreliable narrator, so you can't tip that off. And then
even the witch scene, to me, that's just like I
think that is happening, but you could take that as
like a thought that they're having that if it is
like because they've thought they've talked about a witch and
they you know, hush that down. It's not that. Then
the witch talk keeps continuing, continuing, and the twins bring
it up and then Anya has that you know joke
that does terribly for it later on because it gets
brought back later on. But that idea of the witch
cooking that child, that's like the only real witchy thing.
I guess they're it's tough because then you have the boy.
Because my thing is like at the end, when the
witches are doing their cuve and they're all naked at
the fire, right, Other than Anya floating, that doesn't they're
not doing anything magical. That's just like what people in
fucking cults would do, right, And you could just say
that Anya's floating because it's in her mind. But that's
a tough thing. In this movie. There's things where like, Okay,
when the boy kisses the hot look and witch and
then she grabs them has like the old arm, that's
clearly like a magical thing, right, But or is he
just going fucking nuts which people have talked about because
they're eating like tarnished food and that could just be
fucking with them, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, food that comes from her woods where yeah, you
could do shit to it. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 6: And I think that's what's interesting about this movie is
like eighty percent of it you could make the argument that, oh,
it is just like them allowing their fears. I think
to take it in that vein because how you just
listen to Travis, like you could have the baby go
missing and then that scene of like the witch thing happening,
like that could just be their worst case scenario that
their magic, right, because this is this is the world
that they live in they believe that there's witches out
there if you're a sinner, like like the devil's gonna
get you and.
Speaker 1: All the scariest thing.
Speaker 6: But because their belief is so strong like that that
like that's the reality because if you if you sin,
you're gonna be going to hell. Like that's it's not
just that is a cause, like that's a possible thing
that could happen.
Speaker 2: That is their belief. So therefore that is the way
that the world works in their mind.
Speaker 6: So I think it is interesting actually making that point
that it could just be them imagining that worst case
scenario or later on when they are picturing some witchy
things going on, that's that's them picturing that happening.
Speaker 2: I don't think that is the case.
Speaker 6: I think it especially at the end, like when Anya
is talking to Billy what's the name Black Billy or
something like that, the black phill up.
Speaker 2: There you go, the Billy goat.
Speaker 6: But like like at that point, it's just like, Okay,
you know this is we are living in the world
of witches, Insanan and all these things, and that's.
Speaker 1: Or she is and that's like they the food. I
haven't the trivia Robert eggers specifically use it because that
was what was reported back in that era that when
not which stuff, just when people would eat that food,
they would start to hallucinate if it was like gone
bad crops. That's the thing of right, because even then
like the Dad food and stuff. Yeah, like even Black
Philip killing the Dad, I know, people, oh well that's
the devils, Like that could just be a fucking goat
being like rabid. Right, It's not like he's talking. We
don't see the goat talk to any of our non
witchy characters.
Speaker 3: I'm sure thousands of people in medieval times died to
a random animal hitting them in a way. And then
you know, especially if you're isolated like this and don't
have a doctor or anyone nearby. But yeah, like I like,
for me, it seemed pretty simple. And that's why this
is already interesting to hear you guys perspective, because to
me it seemed like kind of a self fulfilling prophecy
sort of thing of like any sort of Chosen One storyline,
It's kind of like that where it's like sometimes a
Chosen One character just has magical powers and plot armor
and everything works for them. It's like, oh, yeah, they're
the chosen One, it makes sense. But other times a
chosen One story is like, Okay, well, the character who
were calling the chosen one just went through all the
hard work and steps to become like all the things
that makes that chosen One character, and so they kind
of become it in that way. And I just feel
like that's kind of what was happening with Anya here,
where if her whole family is telling her over and
over again, you're a witch. They're locking her up, they're
kicking her out of the house, they're doing all this stuff,
then like, yeah, she will start to believe it at
the end, and then that's when she'll just when everything
goes completely insane, then that she'll just retreat to the
woods and kind of become a witch. But like, I
don't think that she was the whole time, at least
that's my read after the first watch, and it seems
like that's what you guys think as well after watching
it and thinking on it a bit more. Is that
that wasn't that she was always the witch, even though
if you there's that possible read, but she became it
just because everyone's around her is telling her that and
making her believe it in a.
Speaker 1: Way, and she's got nothing left right, her whole family's
fucking dead. They turned against her, so like, yeah, I
definitely read it as like it's like a even if
the witches were just fucking with their family the way,
I stas like they're indoctrinating her to become a witch
in a way where because it just feels so like
sure they take the baby, but like the coven's not
that far from her. It just almost feels like it
is like, yeah, a destiny chose one in a situation,
but it's just even then they could see something in
her that, oh, you know, she has X Y whatever
witches look for in that era, like oh, this girl
has it right, And if she does become a witch,
she's like already floating at the end, right, So you
would take like, Okay, she like maybe it was her
destiny to not be with this family and everything. But
I do like having the like I said, there's logical leaps,
so you could have it that okaypore just going crazy
if she is a witch the whole time. That to
me is like there's part of me that would like
that because that's just like super fucked up. If like
from the beginning, she's like, you know what, I hate
my family, and because like they before things go bad,
they set the seeds of even her mother and her
not being close, right Like, you can tell that they
don't have a close relationship. She on purpose, which I
have this specifically my family and older generation favors the
men clearly, right like, she talks about her son in
such a big, like glowing light. But there's nothing ever
said to like about any tear Joy's character. Now, obviously
the baby goes away, so there's some there's some distance
put between the two. But you get the sense right
away that these two aren't the closest of characters. So
and that's where it is, like all these like I said,
you don't really have the twins fear, Like I guess
their fear is just like which is black fills. But
like the dad's trying to protect his family and he's
being overprotective. The mom you can kind of see that
her like hate for her daughter drives her to madness.
The son's kind of shoots him in the foot, you know,
a man with.
Speaker 6: The mom though, like we don't really see, we don't
really interact with her and Anya together like post crisis
of her losing Samuel, right like the child.
Speaker 1: She hates her, that's it though, She's just like I
think she's just disowned her daughter.
Speaker 6: Now, No because of that though, That's what I mean,
Like the whole movie, we're like we're dealing with the
mother after this crisis that in her let's just say,
for sake of argument, she completely blames Anya for that
or Thomasin for that event. So I think it's just
it almost makes sense on like why she would have
that hatred towards her. Like I'm not saying it's right
for her to think that, but like for the sake
of the movie, at least the dynamic between her and Thomasin,
it's like those two would make sense why they would
be at all. It Mostly, I guess for the mother's
perspective towards Thomasin, Thomasin is just the victim in the case.
And I don't know, I like the idea of making
just for sake of conversation of is Thomasin a witch
the whole time?
Speaker 2: And like you don't really know.
Speaker 6: I think it's like probably eighty percent that she isn't
like she is just kind of a victim of the
situation at hand, mostly because when we have the camera
on her, even if she's by herself, like she still
looks pretty down and out and sad and like everything
is not going right for my family, and I still
feel like she is making like maybe certain attempts to
bring the family together, like when she is really scared,
like kind of after when the twins are like really
accusing her of being a witch and like starting to
point the finger at her, It's like, like, I was
just joking at that point.
Speaker 2: Obviously It's it's.
Speaker 6: Bad at that point because now the parents are starting
to like be's pretty sus the mother was kind of
already in that camp. But I just think from I
don't know, like like if she was conniving maybe off screen,
then it would have been like, oh, she was a
witch the whole time. And I think they do somewhat
of a decent job at making us think that she
could be the witch because of something like when when
the old witch drinks all the goats and the dad
comes out for a morning piss and he just sees
his goats completely empty, and then Thomasin's just like lying
there like at the scene of the crime, Like that's
pretty fucking sus and that you know, they do the
comparison a couple other times that she's just kind of
always at the scene of the crime, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: But I just think because of those, because maybe because
of a lack of scenes where she looks us, it
just makes me think that's like pretty eighty percent confirmed
that she is just innocent in it. But I don't know,
it was kind of crossing over on points there. You
just can kind of touch upon anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean one thing too that I was a
little couldn't quite figure out is like every one of
the family members has some thing about them that that
I guess you could call them like a bad person
or a shitty person, or like they deserve this or
like they they've earned this fate to some extent, And
I feel like a lot of it is, like I
don't know, a lot of it is just like little
lies that they tell to each other, and like that
makes them bad people. I guess. You know, Caleb, he's
like checking out his sister's boobs all the time, so
it's like, Okay, we eat what's going on there, buddy.
I never understood like the twins, like the young kids,
I feel like what if that is part of it?
Like these people are bad people, Like this is karma
coming back to get them in some way. Like do
the twins do anything that we would deem evil or
bad or anything?
Speaker 4: Worshiping Black Philip and might be the bad thing.
Speaker 1: Kind of, but it's like do they know, Like I
don't know if they know.
Speaker 3: They're so good making them stories, right yeah, and like
they're just singing and dancing.
Speaker 5: They were very disobedient too, and I don't know if
that's how hard, Like I.
Speaker 6: Would never really think unless it's like a straight up
child's serial killer, Like I would never think that like
a child is evil or like a ser like they're
just kind of yeah, yeah, exactly, Like they're just they're
talking to you know, Black Philip, Like it's and they're
making stories and like I probably talked to my little
stuffies as a little kid, like just making stories as
you go.
Speaker 2: So I would never say that's really a sinner type thing.
But I'm a center myself.
Speaker 1: So it's like they're they're just learning and stuff. Like
even if Black Philips are talking to them, I guess
it's tough though, right, that's what he's saying to them, yeah,
Like it's like you said at the beginning, right, like
they do just think if they die or sin, they're
going hell, and that's something they are taught like in
that era of that's like a it could be as
a I don't know, a vessel for you know, the devil, right,
like a black goat like that and everything. So but
again it's that that the Twins is a tougher one
to get to for me as far as like them
deserving to die or anything like that, because them just
being a little shits. It's like, well little kids all
the time. It can be a little jerks, right, but
it's just like and I guess you could say they
kind of like trying to set up on you because
they do say she tells like I think they know
that she's I think they know she's joking. But when
they do hank like the dad locks black fill up
the twins and her in the cage, and I do
like that they both ask each other like you the witch?
And then and then she asked them like you the witch?
And I don't think so. But that's where she's like,
that's super fucking sus. So when these kids are like,
I don't think so and then the goat is just
looking at you. So it's again it's it's I think
they're just a casualty in the crossfire here. I think
it's more it's like the sins of the Father. I
think that's what it kind of is, right.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm almost that they weren't like earlier fodder
in the movie.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: To further this thing of like maybe the witch would
just go up like age pretty much like take out
the youngest and then go up from there, but they
kind of skip that, go to Caleb and then and
then everyone kind of dies in the final sequence altogether,
like back to back, you know. So that that was
that I was hard. It was hard for me to
piece together what exactly the point of the twins were
other than like you know, certain things of like they
revealed to the parents like oh, she's a witch because
she said that, which I think that was a really
wellden scene, like so many times we see that in
a movie or show, and it's really annoying as if
you were to like, okay, just explain, just tell, explain
what happened there, and then everything can get cleared up,
and they never do. But I feel that was a
perfect situation where like the mom was already just in
such tragedy, the sun is tweaking out in a way
that they're just freaking out about, and then the twins
drop this and like, yeah, that's a really hard thing
to explain because she went really hard when she was
being the fake witch on the on the the younger
sister just like she went way too hard with that
joke if she was joking, you know. So I can
see how that's a very hard thing to explain away
given the circumstances.
Speaker 1: You never came in on the what you thought was
real or not real in that situation. Yeah, what's going on?
Speaker 4: Sequence?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I yeah, Like the idea of her being a
witch one to start, that's really really intriguing. And I
didn't really think of that, uh the like what's real
and what is not? Like some things just seem to
line up with other events. And for example, I'm just
gonna say, when they were trapped in that bar and
then this old lady is just fucking pounding back that
goat's milk at the same time you have this crow
just pounding back the mum's milk too, I guess just like, yeah,
I feel like, okay, well those the one event might
be well, the one event is clearly she's hallucinating. It
could be that she's getting sick from the corn of
the food like you.
Speaker 4: Were talking about Travis. Uh, But.
Speaker 5: Like are the kids and also like thomasin are they
have loose sitting because there's clearly an old lady in there.
She's clearly doing something, clearly doing something.
Speaker 1: Is there an old lady in there in.
Speaker 4: The barn scene when they're trapped.
Speaker 1: Because when they when Anya wakes up, she's gone.
Speaker 5: But the goats screams yeah because the twins, the twins
wake up and they they freak out, and then it
cuts to you see the witch and it cuts to
Anya and then she screams yeah.
Speaker 1: But I I also in fear that if you're taking
as like the oh, there's double meaning to that that
that could have they could have saw Anya doing that
and she is like in like, they're fucking with us
again as she's they show the older witch, but that's
her because when Annia wakes up, it looks like a
dream and then they cut and then the dad finds
them all dead. You don't see that witch interact with
any adults there or like, so that's where it's like
to me, it's like, is that witch there? Is it
just black filt fucking round? Is just a hallucination because
like I don't think it's a for sure because if
she is there, I guess that, Okay, all the stuff
goes down, then she scurries away, and that could be it,
right or just magic, right, But I mean, but.
Speaker 3: To counter that, like given the scene with the witch
like in her hut and when she's cooking up the kid,
and then later when the witch is like the younger
version and baits in Caleb, like, if we're seeing that witch,
presumably there's no way that could be on you, right,
So like why would why would that not be just
the continuity of that?
Speaker 1: Well, no, it could be because they both go in the
forest together, right, but think dad right away after she does,
but it doesn't.
Speaker 3: She's also knocked out in that sequence, interestingly.
Speaker 1: And the dad brings it up. He's like, you're the
one that lost him and you're the one that found him,
and that when he starts to believe on is the witch.
Speaker 3: But I mean when the baby goes missing, like that's
that it doesn't really connect there, I guess just.
Speaker 1: That she's the last one to see him though, right,
she's the last one to see the baby.
Speaker 3: And that scene happens at night, right, like when when
when when the she's actually cooking up.
Speaker 1: The baby, Yeah, the cooking. Yeah, the baby goes back.
Like it's like I'm.
Speaker 3: Trying to think, like maybe all these things happen when
she's asleep, and maybe it's like some sleepwalking. The witch
mint situation, Well.
Speaker 5: There's a red cloak too, right, that's what the twins say, like, oh,
we see this witch walking around out in the forest.
She's got like a red cloak, which you see is
reoccurring because the young witch luring Calebin is wearing that
cloak over her head and then the mom has it
on her lap on the crow is like going to
town on her right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even like bringing back this movie like they you know,
if they wanted to, if it was in a horror move,
they could have color graded it made like the Poppy
at greens and blues. But it is a very drab movie,
and so when you have any color really stands out,
like the red and of course like the apple as well.
So I'm sure there's some connection there between like this
red cape and this red apple that Caleb is going
to the woods to find he finds something with a
red something or rather that.
Speaker 1: It's just the what is it puberty just getting the
best of them there, you know, seeing right everywhere. Yeah,
but and that's the thing. I still believe that these
situations happened to her, but there's always like the yeah
but and there's all this like and that. That's what
I do like about it because I think that you
can just watch it. The way that I take is, Okay,
she's a she's not which that this, you know, she
becomes one, et cetera, and it just completely works. But then
I kind of like that it has that double on
Tauendre if you want to look into it, because all
these things happen and then you know, the dad, he
just dies from a goat, so that could be.
Speaker 2: So Trevor's like, how are you reading into that scene?
Speaker 6: Then with the old witch in the barn with them
you don't think she was actually there?
Speaker 1: No, it's just like another hallucination sort of like I
definitely don't think she even if the case, So if
I think that that that witch is in the forest
and everything, right, because like even then we.
Speaker 2: Never girlfriends what you're talking about or the well there was.
Speaker 1: I think the one that eats the baby. Cale's girlfriend
is still her because when she re she's around, she has.
Speaker 2: An old arm, right, Oh I see, Okay.
Speaker 1: The only thing that's odd is we don't like I've
always thought it's interested when Anya gets to the final
coven and they're all spinning, but and whatnot, you never
have like a moment of Anya's seeing that witch, like
the witch that has like haunted them the whole movie.
You would think that would be almost like a respect,
like oh, you're here with us now, and like, oh,
this is where I'm supposed to be. You never see
that now. Granted, this happens a lot of witch folk
right where she could be one of those witches that
are now young and sexy. That happens right, like they
take youth and stuff. So but still I always thought
that is odd that she doesn't have a moment with
any witch that would kind of say like, oh, yeah,
I've been like messing with your whole family for a
couple of days and now you're here and it's great
to see you. So for me though, if that witch
it's like we talk about the baby being take away
as magic if that witch is like an actual character
and messing with them. I think she's there in like
a magical way, not as like a physical like you
couldn't touch that witch and like pull her off and
start punching her. She's there in like a astral projection
and something or could just poof away. I don't think
she's actually there sucking on the tee and you could
pull her off.
Speaker 2: So then how do you explain the goats that were
just drained right there? Just magic?
Speaker 1: How would you explain that as far as like Onya
wakes up and those goats are still live? So did
go on you like the witch clock her? You know,
that's a tough thing.
Speaker 6: I I really don't know how to answer that like cleanly,
because my my running theory was just somehow the witch
got in there, whether like we like we were mentioning the.
Speaker 2: Rabbit or.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, she got I'm pretty sure the first time
I watched this, I probably dozed off and woke up
in that scene to her just at me. It's like
the scene of Blockers where I just locked eyes with
the witch looking at me, and.
Speaker 1: Then she could be the rabbit, right she's there and
then yeah, so.
Speaker 6: She got and the goats probably took the twigs and
then just left on you because she knows that she's
turning into the witch.
Speaker 2: I don't like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Really thought too much about it though, when the dad
locked him up in the bar and I'm like, there's
got to be way out of this barn, right, Like.
Speaker 2: Do those nails he was using like.
Speaker 3: One door the roofs made of hay, Like I think
that's what I mean.
Speaker 6: The nails were like it was like a like tiny,
like one little nail floppy board.
Speaker 1: I just also thought really bold of him to still
like go to bed, because like the next thing, he
wakes up and he climbs over his wife, Like that's
a night where you're I'm gonna fucking sit outside this
barn and I'm keeping my eyes on all Like who
goes to bed after everything that you think exhausted.
Speaker 2: I don't know if people live in this time era,
let alone.
Speaker 3: With the witchcraft, like on the edge of starvation.
Speaker 1: This is life. I'm fine if it's he's outside and
he falls asleep, but he's fully tucked into the bed
with his life. Yeah, Like that's a night where it's
like one of my three kids could be a witch.
I gotta fucking stay up. There's no way I'm going
into bed.
Speaker 5: But like, well that's the thing, Like I feel like
this guy he's lost, he's lost two kids at this point,
he's thinking like, holy funk, I had to lock the
rest of my kids in the barn with black Phil
up to go my wife. I walked in on my
wife getting you know, with the crow again, walked to
my wife with that. Like this guy is clearly just thinking,
you know what, I'm fucking done. He's he's thinking about
building his barn and becoming a wheat farmer.
Speaker 4: So he's going to bed that night. He's just calling
it quits.
Speaker 3: His wife come for me in a pile of wood.
I'm out of here, like just get me, yeah, out
of here.
Speaker 1: And then before it really got bad, his wife all
submitted that she doesn't love him anymore and doesn't think
she could ever love him. So just another just like
drop that in there. His son is like dying in
the room. She's like, yeah, you know, I don't really
love you and I don't think I could in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, another another theory here to add on, Like Anya
being passed out, and then like she's the witch in
those moments, because so the first time, there's kind of
two sequences when Caleb's checking out his sister. The first
one she's just like sleeping in the house, and then
the next time it's like when they're at the river
cleaning clothes or something, and she like catches him, and
so it's it's almost it's not clear if she saw
him checking her out, but she's like seems like she
maybe fifty percent chance kind of acknowledged him there in
doing that. And then obviously when he gets baited into
that barn later, it's like some witch who just has
like her boobs out.
Speaker 1: She punishes him for his crimes, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. I feel like the more
we talk about it, the more that theory seems pretty
likely to me. And once again, now I gotta do
a rewatch to confirm her see if it actually lines
up or if it's just me and I remember dream
inception style trying to piece all together.
Speaker 1: It's definitely gone out that theory because when we talk
about the barn, just certain things and like the idea
of like I didn't really think about her and the
sleeping and like any time, and again, even if it's
like unbeknownst to her, she's doing these things right, if
it is a bewitched or a possession in a way
that she could be like the con to it. Like
even then maybe the fucking witch is like she's not
the rabbit. She's just like like puppeteering on you to
do some of these things right, and she can just
stay in her little cave while you.
Speaker 3: Can see we even see Caleb like doing a full
stealth sequence out of the house. So like clearly she
could just at any point in the night like up
and leave, presumably quietly without anyone else noticing.
Speaker 1: That's fast asleep in bed as always, you know. Yeah,
she loves me, always getting a good night's sleep.
Speaker 2: All ten hours every night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that weather though you're sleeping on the outside pretty
much like like obviously there's stuck to do, but when
you're camping, that's some of the best sleeps ever. You're
just sleeping in the great outdoors. So that's this guy.
Speaker 3: So mm hmm, Yeah, this is the most relaxed. Yeah,
this is this is a pivot, but one thing and
I think it's it's kind of what you're saying there, Travis,
of like the food theory, it's not fully there, but
just like a lot of obscure, nasty, weird things happening
with and related to animals in this right, Like the
first thing I think we see is that they're one
of the chicken eggs I guess like didn't survive. There's
like a dead baby chicken there. Of course, when the
when the fall is trying to aim his gun at
the rabbit, that's when he gets like shot in the eye.
The dog dies pretty early on the goat starts squirting
blood instead of milk. The crow scene obviously we brought
that up, and then the goat. So yeah, a lot
of weird, strange things happen happening to animals, which I
guess is maybe just like easier for a witch to
control an animal or or I think so even like
maybe now that I'm thinking about more, maybe it's not
the the witch transforming into the rabbit and acting as
the rabbit, because once again, if it was that Anya scene,
and let's say she is the witch in that moment,
then obviously like her and the rabbit exist in different spots.
But more so that maybe like a simple creature like
that is easy to command for a witch.
Speaker 1: I would think so for sure. I just think more
it's kind.
Speaker 3: Of just smaller than animal, the easier to control.
Speaker 1: Weak mind like not that bundy, Like I'm sure bunnies.
Speaker 3: Are Bunnies are weak minded. What are you gonna do? Like,
but I mean the bunny listeners.
Speaker 1: Of yeah, I mean compared to like if we look
at the food chain, I think we're much higher on
the bunny that are much higher than the bunny, right,
So that's where I think we're supposed to And they
don't know I imagine they don't know about witches and
hell and sinning and stuff, so they don't have those
sorrows trouble. They're sleeping better than the dad, you know,
at night. So m.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just kind of attribute that to like a
witchcraft type type thing of them just messing with livestock
and animals and just especially like even the crops, right,
Like you could you could say that that's witchcraft, that's
just making all their crops moldy. You could just be
terrible land And that's just the way that it goes,
because that's probably the reality of life.
Speaker 5: Back doesn't doesn't she call him up for being a
ship farmer, like you just go back and cut wood like.
Speaker 1: You limp dick.
Speaker 3: It did seem like he had a lot of like
maybe too much wood cut, So maybe you should have
spend more time working on the cross.
Speaker 1: Was you should water more?
Speaker 6: But yeah, just just that's like attention to the animals.
I definitely like sickening. I feel like just most of
it is grotesque imagery, whether it's the like the the
miscarriage I guess of an egg for like the little
chicken there. They didn't have to show us the dog dying,
but fuck they sure did, and those bastards just made
it made it that much harder to see. But uh, yeah,
I I just kind of attribute that to a which thing. Again,
it's uh it's very warhammer like getting the uh the
corruption of the livestock and all all those aspects. So yeah,
I I I liked it for what it was, but
I did not like seeing it. I feel like the
crow scene, I remember seeing it, but when it was
coming up, I forgot about it or I would have
looked away. And it's just like, yeah, no, that's that's
what I got. As I'm putting my you know, spoon
of food in my mouth. I get that shot.
Speaker 2: Pause the movie, come back to this when I'm done eating.
Speaker 1: For me, it's a fact if like, obviously it's still
like a disturbing scene. But what's so unsettling about it
is so she's there. This is just after the second
son has died and the baby, and then she's having
this hallucination right that he's there and he has the baby,
and she's like, oh, he's gonna be so happier back,
and then she starts to breastfeed the baby, which I
feel like we all know even before it's okay, this
is not gonna be good. But it's just like it's
still like in a loving way, like, oh, I gotta
switch size. But then when they hardcut to it later
and the crow is just nipping at her, but she's
also just like laughing, and it's so it's fucking is
just rattling because it's just like she nobody like when
they're breasting their babies, like laughing like that, right, So
it's just like she's completely fucking mad, and it's just again,
she also gets a good night sleep. She goes back
in the bed and also falls asleep. So these people
can just sleep like a rock. But yeah, that doesn't.
Speaker 3: Change her shirt's like no rocking.
Speaker 1: That's what gets me though. It's her laughing during that
and she looks so bewildered. And great job by that actress.
She does a phenomenal job just seeing like completely a
different person and a good, good death scene too. Or
she tries to kill on you and she's just she's
just she's like a rabbit animal at that point too,
She's like the goat where she's just doesn't matter what
Anya would say in that moment, whatever has happened. She's
just I'm gonna kill my daughter right here. And it
is like a killer be killed. You either gotta kill
me or I'm gonna kill you. And it's just like
terrible scene if you think Anya is an innocent person
in this, so it is brutal.
Speaker 3: I think I'm officially done with the trope of one
character is being pinned down by the other character. Character
on the ground struggles, swings their arm around, you get
a cut shot of them reaching for a sharp object
and smacking the person. I think I've seen that five
too many times now and I don't want any movie
to ever do it again. So I'm sure, you have
some uh maybe planned and your I forget if there's
one in a drenochrome.
Speaker 1: What is the specific scene again?
Speaker 3: Give me that again, character pinned on the ground. Yeah,
and then the character on the ground is flaming their arms.
They reach for something sharp, they grab it and stab
the person in the head and get them all some
kind of have a struggling ground shot and a drenochrome.
I do, but I like that, but it's different.
Speaker 1: I think, well, because the thing is, it's the the
character sees it and then they purposely move in that
direction to get set object. Does that make a better
few instead of just flare like they see it?
Speaker 3: And I think, just the one that's here in the Witch,
I've seen this exact shot a million times, but just
onct object. She's probably done it in another movie to
there's no there's none in the same probably did it
in the menu, I don't remember, but she probably did
so as well with her magic sword, you know all
that stuff.
Speaker 1: I'll keep that in mind. I don't think there's any
second movies, so I think we're good. We're good.
Speaker 3: I just feel like it doesn't Yeah, ten million. The
person on the bottom always wins that exchange show. There's
no there's no question about who's gonna come out on top.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah, yeah, anything else.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just want to quickly highlight some acting
like Anya for her first movie, first major role, like it,
did an amazing job here. There's one of her best
roles still, I think, and I've seen quite a few
of her movies. Now. Uh, Caleb the eldest son, Harvey
crim Scrimshaws the name of the actor.
Speaker 1: I think it's great.
Speaker 3: He has to do some wild stuff, especially when he's seen. Yeah,
when like the Exorcism scene when he when you I
think he's about to get up on all the arms
and walk like a spits the apple out like that.
He does a really really great job there. And then
of course both the parents do a really great job,
especially Ralph. For me, he's kind of the standout between
the two, and he just gets to do a little
bit more other than the yeah, deep gravelly voice, which
it's a great voice, but yeah, it is hard to
hard to hear what he's saying exactly. But yeah, I
think I think they all do a really good job. So,
you know, shouts to.
Speaker 1: All the acting across the board, especially because it's the
voice while trying to do like this like kind of
old timy accent. I think that's the double because I've
heard him like when he's a Green Knight. I feel
like I didn't have any troubles then, So I feel
like it's that combo of gravelly voice and using the
the the and stuff, and.
Speaker 6: It's the type of movie I would expect to not
be able to understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, subtitles, it feels authentic.
Speaker 6: Yeah, if you hear those like render of like what
old English sounded like from like the Middle Ages, Like, yeah,
I feel like he'd be pretty close to that.
Speaker 2: He's probably the guy in the videos doing doing all
the readings. Yeah, Black Philip.
Speaker 6: I didn't notice his human form the first time around
because it's a very dark film. And I kind it's
interesting too, because like you don't really see until like
you just get like the black hand like go on
her shoulder, and like right away you just know that
she's I feel like, okay, the witch stuff. I've seen
shots of a witch. You know, you can make the
argument it's just dream sequence or their imagining worst case scenario.
As soon as Black Phillips starts speaking to Anya, it's like, oh, yeah,
she's she's doing She's.
Speaker 2: Just going to hell.
Speaker 6: She is full on in Satan's clutches here. And I
like it though, because it's literally like what the first
ten minutes I think when that like sequence happened, probably
even less maybe last five minutes, like it's really the
end of the film. Oh when he speaks and you
just just made me think of the first eight minutes
of this film as you see the witch eating that child.
So it's they really get you in the the front
of the back of this movie.
Speaker 5: I feel like black phillis making some pretty good deals
on his end because he's like butter, Butter, Yeah, you
can have it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It didn't take the movie down for me at all.
I didn't need the human form. I think I like
it better just up to the net because like it's
to me, it's always tough when you have like a
representation of the devil and then like the human forms, like, well,
should the devil have a human form per se? And
if it does, Like so, I was fine with just
the voice and the go and I think I didn't
need the guy with the uh.
Speaker 6: I think it was mostly just surprising because I wasn't
expecting a human because I didn't see it the first
time around, but it's.
Speaker 2: I was also really tired of that first viewing. Yeah,
fair enough for a point.
Speaker 3: I'm noteless over here, boys, other than trivia, noteless ny
notes nay nay, really making us wait for that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my goodness. Okay, So if anyone was wondering the
spelling of the title with the Witch with the double
v's is how they used to write the word in
the stories period because the letter W was not yet
in common use at the time.
Speaker 3: Which you know, what is it called a double let's
call it a double V.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that too, the bitch.
Speaker 1: According to cinematography, the cinematographer, the film was mostly sorry
was shot mostly with available natural light, which is very impressive.
And obviously they they I think I looked at it
was only twenty five days shoots, so obviously they probably
just had there from to like I don't know, eight
to you know, sundown or whatever. But I've been there.
We just we've shot again recently and we're gonna do
it again this week. We're shooting stuff outside and there's
always a point where we're outside. I'm like, fuck, I
never want to shoot any movie outside anymore because all
it takes is just some turn with the weather something.
It's like, man, this is a match up. It's a pain.
So good for them that I just kind of all
worked and it all looked like whatever time of year
they shot, it's always like kind of cloudy and foggy.
So I think that that environment seemed to work out
a lot for them. But uh. The premise is based
on the America's first witch hysteria, set sixty two years
before the infamous Salem witch trials in Massachusetts. This is
kind of like the big So this is where it's
like it's you gotta think about, like people are already
scared of witches and it's like a hysteria. This is
like sixty two years before it gets to that like
really bad. Like I said, those memes of like you
do math and like that's a witch, you know, like
of like if anythings, if a woman does anything that
is even smarter than the males, they're just gonna And
there's people that you know, abuse that that would get
people killed by just saying they're witches, but really they
did nothing. But uh, but yeah, kind of what we've
talked about the director designed the film to be interpreted
two ways, literally as if the family was besieged by
real witches and satanic forces, or figuraively as the family
has to come to a shared psychosist to their strained
circumstances and beliefs. They're small hints about the film that
could serve as a reasonable causes behind the events beyond
the obvious supernatural, such as the contaminated food that caused
hallucinations back in the day, repressed sexual desires, and extreme isolation.
The director state, it's up to the viewer and he
will not answer any of those so and he would
not also answer if he's had any other worldly interactions
like ghosts, whatever, stuff like that. He just had no comment,
so kind of I think some interviewers asked if he
believed in the stuff and just no.
Speaker 5: Hey, then you gotta ge him on cryptid clues and
break that open. Yeah, that's gonna be a you know,
a hard cell. But I can I don't know how
do I how do I get him? Get him on
the show and ask him.
Speaker 1: Well, you get him on the show, and then you
also get him to produce a film for us. And
we talked to him, you know, one thing at a time.
Speaker 2: We'll do the Cryptid Clues appearance first and then start
talked about going.
Speaker 4: Do a which sequel, but we'll have us cast in it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do which sequel that.
Speaker 3: He's having the crow come for their nips.
Speaker 2: I'll sacrifice a boo.
Speaker 1: Is Taylor then just not me? Quentin Robert Eggers. He
did not direct Harvey Scrimshaw through most of his difficult scenes,
and those scenes Scrimshaw was directed by Ralph Innoson. Aggars
had no children at the time, and while Innoson was
the father of two and frequently was an acting coach
or instructor to children and knew but much better how
to coach young children. This was not planned, but Agars,
amid the Ensign's coaching uh was had a oh. He
had a hard time understanding Anger's direction. Agers Ensign used
Scrimshaw's passion for soccer and coached him like he was
preparing for a high stakes game of football. So I
guess which the reason that I put that in is
like that. To me, it's just a sign of a
good director where he's trying to direct this kid. It
ain't working. He like and he says it's in like
a pause away because that a good story. Just like
not working. He's not getting what I'm putting down. He
recognizes that Richard is like works with kids and acting
like hey, why don't you work with him? So all
that stuff like that possession stuff like oh he's a
kid as well, but that's I call the Richard. Ralph
is helping him a lot through that. So I just
put that in. There's like a great note by a
direct and didn't like get all like, oh, this kid's
not fucking listen to me and I'm the guy and
said like, hey, how do we get through this kid? Well,
you work with the kids, right, like, go work with them,
And it worked and it probably helps you. Theyre supposed
to be father and son, so it kind of builds
that dynamic.
Speaker 3: But it's so wholesome. I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah trivia fact.
Speaker 2: It makes their like one on one scenes just that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah or whatnot? Yeah, most of the film's dialogue and
story were based on writings from the time, and they
go there's a bunch of trivia about all the different
uh like uh studying they did and investigations and stuff
like that. Let's see This is his directional film debut.
He had only done some short movies and written a
script for The Witch. Unbeknownst to him, his editor friend
Luis Ford, had passed the script on the producers Lars
Knudsen and Jay van Hoy. That's when j van Hoy,
with whom she was working with at time, Aggers was
horrified because he didn't consider the script finish. But fortunately
the producers loved it. They suggested that he simplify the
structure because originally the script was divided into five and
we're told from the perspective of each family member, and
then four years later they made it into a movie.
So good, good friend Louis steals the script, gives the
producers he's mad about it, and then like here but yeah,
I guess that was the original script which I could
see as producers like simp fine and also like I am.
I would love to read it though that version, because
I'd love to see, like we talk about the twins,
like what's their chapter? Because I mentioned the five chapters
are like Anya, the brother, the mom, dad, and you'd
have to be unless the chapter could have been from
the Witch or the Santanic point of view.
Speaker 3: But it was a take away some of the ambiguity of.
Speaker 1: It, I think especially Yeah, so I think I think
they found a better way there. During the witch hunts
of the of America, it was wide they believe that
a witch could not say the entire Lord's prayer. This
is why the family soapst when Mercy and Joans are
unable to finish the prayer. So that's why they I
was wondering what was going on here, Yeah, because it
is like I jumped it is this thing, like, there's
all this evidence against Anya. She says one thing and
that's like, oh, they kind of turned the twin. But
she says this, But then I also they didn't finish
the prayer and they were lying about being dead. So
again there's other things in there. This is my this
is the last year. This is my favorite thing. There
were more scenes planned to evolve Black film, but because
he was not a well trained goat, those ideas had
to be scrapped. Well in the scenes when Philip lunges
and struggles with the father was not ridden. It just happened.
So obviously not the scene where he died, but just
other things. And it's so funny because I know this
sounds stupid, but there was a moment where Annie was
looking at him. It's before the shit hits the fan,
and then it's just Shaw the goat, and I was like,
this is a shot of a goat, like they're trying
to make it scary of like he's just a goat
and it sounds weird, but like, I feel like there
are animals that are trained and have like an on
screen like charisma or something. It's probably because they are
trained so they have like a live look. But I
remember looking at them and like, this looks like a goat.
Like I know it's suposed to be the devil, but
like there's nothing intimidating really about Black Pilp. He just
looks like a regular goat. So I kind of laughed
when I read the trivia, like yeah, he wasn't he's
not well trained. I'm like, yeah, you got the worst
black coat you could find find out there.
Speaker 2: But I disagree.
Speaker 6: I thought it was scary because it was just really
I feel like goats are terrifying animals.
Speaker 1: I wasn't of this. It's just like he's just like
he just looked regular. But yeah, I guess there was
no terrifying, no.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, tell me to murder my family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you find a goat scary?
Speaker 5: I mean as a little kid, No, but they're usually
they're associated with Satanism. Satanism as to the question, yes,
I do, Okay, okay you but no, I wonder what
other scenes they had.
Speaker 1: But you know, I I also will say that again,
like the changes in the script, I think it worked
better having because I already didn't like him having human form.
I think it worked better having him in smaller a
mouths because like, like, is there some scene where he's
like planning to chase the characters? Like, I don't know,
Like I think black Philips in there the right amount
in my opinion. So yeah, Tilmus, what are you scoring
this thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah? This is this is this is my I feel
like my favorite kind of cast where I come into
something either negative or just indifferent, which is how I
would describe myself on this one. And by the end
of it, I like it a lot more. I appreciate
it a lot more, and I want to watch it again.
And so I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with what
I did for like four or five years there. I'm
not going to give this a rating. Because I feel
like I need to see it again. I would feel
right giving it a number right here and now. I
don't think i'll rewatch it soon, so you'll have to
wait for that. But maybe the next couple of years,
I'll rewatch it and then I'll drop a rating on
a newscast. But yeah, I'm really glad we had the
discussion because I have a much greater appreciation for it
now than I did yesterday evening.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not telling you what to do, but
you could wait because my hope is at some point
when I were doing these retro Golden Geeks for Geek
first Day and stuff. As I said last year, the
year I won is twenty fifteen, because that's the one
year that we don't have for Geeek fir Us. When
we started, we didn't do gold Geek, So i'd say
getting hold off to that because I think at some
point it will do twenty fifteen, and I would love
to see even if that main top. I feel like
there's some acting that would make it. But this I
feel I feel like we're gonna revisit it in our
next our next decade at some point, so it might
yeah to be continued like that, mister Field.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm probably gonna go a I go. I'm gonna
I'm gonna degenerous. I'm gonna go an eight out of ten.
I feel like it's just scared. The goats scare me
so fucking bad. General, it's just the the scenes where
you do see just it's they could have done so
much more with the Witch. They could have just presented
her as just this like full frontal terrifying like entity
or demon.
Speaker 4: But it's full frontal.
Speaker 5: You want something, Chara, I say full frontal specifically because
you only got one scene of like the Witch may
be cocking her head to the side after she's drinking
her coat, but for the most part, every other scene
of just this old, haggard, jaggered witch is just her
from her like her back and her long hair, and
she's just like she's up to some crazy shit, like
doing something, and it's just it's eerie. It's suspenseful, it's tense,
and it's just has this sense of known, unknown mystery
to it. It's just it's eerie. And so I really
like how they did that. They didn't they leave it
up to your kind of imagination, because I've said this
before once you kind of paint like a like a
picture of what this thing is that you're dealing with,
and you can kind of it takes away that fear,
but if you leave it up to your own imagination,
it kind of keeps that more scared fear factor in
your mind. And so I think that's what this witch
definitely does a good job of doing, keeping that kind
of element in your in your mind.
Speaker 4: So I like that a lot. And yeah, just the fact.
Speaker 5: That they were kicked out of their village for having
different religious beliefs and they they had this whole setup
and you know, things or could have been okay, but yeah,
they just handled it very very poorly.
Speaker 4: Holy shit.
Speaker 5: And is that why I believe it was because they
know they had different beliefs on I think that I
think it was like the New Testament something religious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something like that because they all they also
just like refer to like if the baby is gonna
go to Hell because it's like, I don't know, because
they're not born, it's not born out of wedlock. But
she makes some sort of comment about like is the
baby in hell? Like almost insinuating because they say.
Speaker 2: It wasn't baptized.
Speaker 1: I thought, right, that's what it was. Right. So that's
the situation where because you could go and say, oh,
if he was baptized, maybe knowing this would have happened,
Like I'm saying, like, they're probably playing in their head.
So that's where there's another thing where I feel like
they read into they're being punished for they're just back
away from certain religious aspects, right, And it's like, uh,
you probably because even then, like when the dad makes
that prayer, he says like take me and the mom,
but at least just like save the kids. So like
there's part of him that probably thinks that because they
win against the oh Holy, this is being brought down
upon them. Right.
Speaker 6: So it just seems like throughout there they're all very religious,
like like they're all praying like before or they eat
and like doing all those things that in my mind
seems like religious people. So I was just a little
bit confused because I feel like maybe I wasn't as
intently focusing when they were having like the council and
then when he was just getting sent out, and remember
the dad kind of shit talking.
Speaker 2: Them like you guys, you guys suck. What do we
want to be here.
Speaker 6: We'll go big paraphrase there, but yeah, it's definitely not my.
Speaker 1: Robert fucking suck get the ship right out of here,
just making Fineapple Express over here, Robert Eggers, Kirkling, what
you drop in here?
Speaker 2: Are you done?
Speaker 3: Taylor?
Speaker 2: I kind of jumped in, Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: This one's tricky because I don't really think there's much
wrong with this film, like other than just some grotesque scenes,
but I think they add to the overall you know
what they're going for with the which folk tale aspect
to it. I guess maybe something that I would improve
on if I had to coach Robert Eggers on how
to be a better director.
Speaker 1: That one movie. And he's like, you know what, Robert,
you know we didn't. You didn't we didn't have a
scene where someone was pinned down and they they reach
for something. You know.
Speaker 6: I think it's more so just maybe like have more
ambiguity on like if it is not actually more yeah,
because I think the end makes it pretty clear of
like okay, they're actually as witches, and but like I
also maybe those scenes taken out, so I don't know,
maybe I wouldn't give that.
Speaker 1: Again, don't you think she could just come across a
group of naked women. She's hallucinating. Even at the end,
I guess, So, I guess my last factory had her five.
Speaker 3: Minutes away from their house that they've been living in.
Speaker 1: Well it's empty now. Even at the end though, if
you go back and watch it, the last show of
the movie is her floating up. There's no one buyer
to her alone.
Speaker 2: Well, they flew ahead of her, that's why.
Speaker 1: Okay, sure, yeah you could say that, but like I'm
just saying, like the final show of the movie is
Aya entrees behind her. It's not they could easily put
more witches by side. Even just seeing little hands, it's
just Onya. So that's where it's like anna thing for me.
It's like it's still left up like either she it's
all on her fucking mind or whatever the case is.
She could just be like seeing like, oh yeah there's
other witches there, that's my coven. But it's like, why
aren't they be signing her again? Why didn't she talk
to or see that witch has been hunting her family again?
So I'm surprised you need more AMBI bigody.
Speaker 6: I think I think it's more so like Okay, when's
Black Philips speaking to her and like you see the
devil grab her shoulder, It's like it's not really up
for antiguity there. But I guess you can make the
counter argument that it is just more corn affecting her brain, right,
more moldy corn. So everybody fair counter argument there.
Speaker 2: But I still think this is top top.
Speaker 6: Quality film, especially like if I ever have to recommend
a Witch movie to someone, I'd recommend this if.
Speaker 2: They want a true Witch experience.
Speaker 6: No Halloween Town bullshit, No Wizards of Waving Your Place
or Harry Potter five year olds.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna watch hooks. Focus. No, we're watching the Witch.
Speaker 6: We're watching the Witch, and everyone's focusing on pausing, if
your eyes, taking phones, nothing.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 6: I I think like I want to give it a
perfect score because I just don't see much wrong with it.
I think I think I'm gonna have to ten ten
for this movie. Yeah, which is crazy for where I
was the first viewing of never wanting to see this again.
So thank you God Loves the sixty nine for pitching
this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all voted, I am with you there where I
think it's like I don't want to say, like an
me in the middle, because I feel like my enjoyment
level is like a nine, because I said, like, this
is not a movie I'll put on all time. I
need to be in the right mood. I'll take a
break here. But like on a craftsmanship, it's like a ten.
So like you should go, oh, well that's the nine
point five. But for this one, I'm giving you both scores.
I usually like to com buying them. No, my enjoyments
the nine, my as just as the film's like yeah,
I and again now that I have this is the
third time I've watched it, and each time it's like, man,
this gets better and better. And that's the good thing
about stuff like this or Hereditary, like some of these
deeper horror films that it takes and that's why, like
I fucking love the Shining, you know, like it's these
these films that just fester with you, but each time
you watch them, it gets stronger and stronger, just stays consistent.
And that's what's been very good that stuff like even Hereditary,
when I watch the first time, I don't love as much.
Everybody And now, okay, that's close to a ten, or
is a ten and that's where this is. And uh,
I'm not sure I'll be on the fourth watch because
now I feel like we've talked about a few more
things I didn't even think about, or just different perspectives,
and those are the best type of films. That's that's
something and Agres does a good job of that. Maybe
they don't always hit as much because like I think
Lighthouse doesn't have as much as that, but you are
lighthouses like that too. Northman's not really Northman's a very
clean cut revenge tale, right, so, and I'm very curious
what Nosaratu is gonna be like because I feel like
that's gonna be a very clean cut, like there's a
vampire fucking yeah, like there is, but I wonder I
feel like he's just gonna like this vampire is fucking
this town up and here we go. But you never know, right.
Speaker 6: So watching this, I'm like, Oh, there's gonna be some
disgusting scenes in os Feradu guarantee.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely absolutely. I'm very talk about that curl and
the nipple. I'm very worried about crol on the other
nip we have Bill Scars guards not for a tu
on a nippo because like a nippo Because when that
last trailer and she's talking about like you can't fuck
me like him, I'm like, what like that means we're
getting as for aw to sex sy and it's gonna
be fucking something. I'm telling you it's it's not gonna
be good, but it's gonna be good. But uh yeah
we will. As we've said before, if you're listening there,
there will not be a no for aught to review
right away because that is on Christmas, but whether it's
golden because I guess it's technically in uh twenty twenty four,
so we'll probably tell them for gold geeks, so yeah,
look out for it then. But yes, thank you everybody
voted and God loves me six Steine for giving this
to us to talk about. Hope everyone has a happy
Halloween and this enjoyed this, And yeah, if you haven't
watched this, I guess we spoil everything, so you shouldn't
have done that. But until then it won't be boring.
Y