Speaker 1: What is up Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you once more with more Jensen of the NBA Podcast,
Fame of Yahoo Sports, Fame of HBO, Max Fame, and.
Speaker 2: Of course also onlyfan celebrity.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk what we think are gonna be the
most interesting rookie extension discussions happening this coming offseason. Just
a good time with so much as we're recording this
March madness is going on. There's a lot of March
NBA basketball going on, you might say too, and so
this will be a nice little look ahead. In primer,
we're we're not going through everyone who's eligible. We're focusing
on the first round picks, and we're just picking what
we think are gonna be the most fascinating case studies
from a price point. While they get it, it does
seem like this class mort has one no brainer Max,
unless there's like I'm sure some people might throw another
name in there, but I only have Wemby as that
no brainer guy. But first and foremost, before we get started,
how are you doing doing well?
Speaker 3: Doing well? We are going to be talking today because
I'm just going to talk about him, about one of
my favorite players in the NBA who flies a little
bit under the radar I think, but not of late
so and he's probably going to be in the West
section of this and that's Bryce sense A bak So.
I'm looking forward to talking about him and his extension number.
Speaker 1: I was, I was hoping that you were going to
be a Chris Murray guy, and maybe you were really
holding out hope for uh.
Speaker 3: I like Chris, fine, but yeah, I like people who
can score the basketball too.
Speaker 1: So why don't you start us off. We'll begin with
some of the Eastern Conference guys. Who do you want
to talk about?
Speaker 2: First?
Speaker 3: Brandon Miller is such a good name because I yeah, like, look,
he is formidable, right, like six', nine one of those
rare guard or rare players who can play the off
guard position but also in a pinch play as a fore.
Man like those guys to, me are extremely valuable due
to their positional, fluidity the fact that he can shoot
the ball to the extent that he, can that he
starts to get into the post a little bit more
like his offensive EVOLUTION i think is. Real. Now WHAT
i wonder is from the side of The hornets is
like you Have, LaMelo you have Conkoin. Nipple, Obviously Brandon
miller is. There you probably are going to make another
draft pick at some, point which could pop because they're
they'd become good. Drafters like you have to take that into,
Account like maybe you get someone in the later station
of the first round who's going to be really. Good, so,
like are you ready to commit a no NONSENSE max
contract To Brandon? MILLER i don't know the answer to that.
QUESTION i think if we're looking at it through the
prism of potential and strictly, POTENTIAL i wouldn't close the
door on A, max But i'd feel a lot better
if that max contra or not the max. Contract if
that new contract the extension he gets is around twenty
percent of the cap instead of twenty. Five like people will, say,
oh five percent, More like that's just splitting, hairs it's really.
Not that's a lot of million. Indifference, Yeah and so
just for, CONTEXT i should have laid this out at the.
Speaker 1: Top is that a five year max for this rookie
class is gonna run two hundred and fifty two plus million? Dollars,
Yeah and then if you put in the ALL nba escalator,
language you're looking at quite a bit more. Money whether
that's past a three hundred million dollar threshold five, years
three hundred and three point three million, dollars that's a
lot OF i know we're dealing with percentages at the cellar,
cap but that's just that's the. Number once we get
into the three hundred million, dollars that's, GONNA i, think
be the sticker mark threshold for.
Speaker 2: Me it's where It's.
Speaker 1: Oh and, so the only other Thing i'd add with
him about the fact that his play style is just
he can fit in whatever type of offense it feels,
like and as you, said he's kind of broadened his.
HORIZON i don't really know what to make of him
as a pastor just. YET i think the fact that
he is such a scalable shooter is a big. DEAL
i also think his defense is pretty, underrated and specifically
what he's able to do Against you mentioned his ability
to play before being able to do that, defensively some
good ball denial possessions from, him you'll. See, basically it
feels like every game what they have to think about with.
Speaker 2: Him though they Have LaMelo on a good deal.
Speaker 1: For a few more, years but that, season so we're
talking twenty seven to twenty. Eight that's only gonna be
like you have to start thinking About konkin nipples next
deal at that. Point you're starting to think About LaMelo's
next deal at that. Point and SO i do wonder
how much of the, calculus like.
Speaker 2: How much that is part of the.
Speaker 1: Calculus OTHERWISE i don't he could this is something If
i'm The Hornets i'm. Negotiating this isn't because of also
his availability issues through his first couple of. Years i'm
not going the max, route and if he wants that
type of, Money i'll probably just let that ride into
restricted free agency percent of the, cap which was you,
know that was your suggestion that that could be something that's.
Fine at that, Point you're looking at what like a
two hundred million dollar commitment around, there two twenty five
around excuse, me five. Years that's probably a number If
i'm The, hornets if he's want to take, that if
it's if it is twenty percent of the salary cap
for four or five.
Speaker 2: Years are you you're bouncing on that As, Charlotte.
Speaker 3: YEAH i THINK i. AM I the thing is also
because he's not a flawless, player like he's turnover percentage
has gone up in each of the three years he's,
played and the assist rate has grown a little bit.
Stagnant he's also not a super efficient, Guy like for whatever,
reason we usually put him in that camp because he
makes the ton of a ton of, threes we usually, go,
oh he's, Efficient but he's actually like a midteri efficiency player.
Overall SO i do think there is room to, hackle,
Honestly and if you can get him at a price
range that is within the twenty, percent and more, important
maybe if you can get him on a deal that's
a flat rate throughout the five, years go for, it
because then if you can even start in above a little,
Higher like if you you want to start the contract
at what twenty two twenty two and a half, percent
but you keep it just at a flat rate for five,
years if you can convince them of, that hell, Yeah
like right, now that seems to me to be the
cheat code within THE NBA cpa, fabric the salary cap,
Fabric like getting guys on the flat, rates that is
just the best way to secure yourself some wiggle room
in the coming.
Speaker 1: Years so if it was flat rated twenty, percent you'd
be in the first, year you'd be looking at about
five and one seventy. Four so if you're, him what's
the number that gets you thinking to sign? Up is
it Two hundred's it got to be two twenty five in?
Speaker 3: Total, YEAH i, mean, look if you're getting offered one
hundred and seventy five million dollars already, there that's that's
a lot of. Money AND i think he also recognizes
he you, know he seems like a guy who understands
that he's not necessarily the number one. Guy it does
seem like he's very willing to give up the ball
that he does seem to recognize, like, okay who's got
the hot? Hand like he seems to be very self.
Aware SO i wouldn't put it past him to just
say one hundred and seventy five, milk go for. IT i,
Deal but you, know his representatives might push for two
hundred and get into his head that two hundred is your.
BASELINE i think that's that becomes a little bit trickery
or a tricky situation because is it is that a
little too much or do you buy into the, potential
like maybe he's the guy who takes that next leap
within those that threesome of. Players but like you're, then
you're just buying off, potential And i'm you know, me
when it comes to taking a lot of, Chances i'm
a little bit more risk averse when it comes to
like paying out full money for guys who aren't necessarily
like fully flitched. Superstars So i'm not banking on, him you,
know turning that corner and, becoming you, know an ALL
nba caliber. PLAYER i want to see it Before i'm
rewarding him with two hundred plus.
Speaker 1: Million do you think an? Extent do you think he'll
end up signing an? Extension do you think you want?
To because, Yeah i'm kind of with. YOU i don't
know where the number is going to end up, being
but when you look at some of the teams that
might that seem like he might be prioritizing flexibility in
twenty twenty, SEVEN i know he'll be a restricted free
agent if they don't get anything. Done but you don't
really want to get yourself into that situation to where
if you can get him for materially less than the.
MAX i, think If i'm, Hornet i'm considering, It i'd
probably go as high as right now an average annual
value a little over forty a, Year so if it
was like five or two hundred or something around, THERE
i THINK i feel comfortable with.
Speaker 2: That that's.
Speaker 3: FAIR i, mean, look we're that that is probably splitting
hairs for us because one seventy five two, million two
hundred million over a five year. Period you, know you
you can probably finnackle.
Speaker 2: IT i guess would it surprise you if he gets THE?
Speaker 1: Max i'd be, Sure, well maybe they give him the
ALL nba language just, because but, like would you be
shocked if he got THE? Max BECAUSE i Think i'd
be pretty, floored especially with the way That charlotte's front
office is handled. Business this front office Under Jake peterson
has handled business.
Speaker 3: Right, YEAH I i probably would, be BECAUSE i do
think there are some things where it's tough to justify
him in that. Bracket and, LIKE i just don't consider
the current iteration of The hornet's front office as someone
who was like super positive and ghosting like oh, yeah,
yeah you're getting gonna get your. Money we believe that
you're gonna make everything with an under so you're AN
mvp in five. Years like that's not the READ i
get that on this front office, Either so, yes that
would that would surprise. Me Whether i'd be, SHOCKED i don't,
know but, Surprised, yes.
Speaker 2: My.
Speaker 1: Pick i'm gonna go With Anthony black of The Orlando.
Speaker 2: Magic. Yeah and this is what let's start.
Speaker 1: With just how good he's been this year hitting his corner.
Threes isn't someone he just he can't run the. Offense
he could do like has some there's he has real
moxie on the ball now when he's, handling but you
don't want him running your half court. Offense he is
kind of reliant when you're looking at his jump shots
or the threes that he's making on like the attention
that A palo Bank caro will. Draw AND i think
his actual his three point percentage just goes in the
toilet whenever he's not playing Alongside palo Ban caro this.
YEAR i guess If Franz vadner had been, healthy it
would be.
Speaker 2: The same story with.
Speaker 1: Him so there is that level of, reliance but the
fact that he can put some pressure on the defense
with the ball in his, hands especially if he's gonna
be in, transition and then all he can do for you.
Defensively the types of players that he like either guard
spot is fine and it doesn't matter who's the. Guard
he can handle some of like the bigger wing types
if you need him. To he's super, disruptive knows how
to navigate, this navigate the floor in the half? Court
AM i going under screens and my going? Overscreens he
just he can read those situations on a. Whim BUT
i don't know what you pay.
Speaker 2: Him when is The magic next year his?
Speaker 1: Salary if you extend him just saying this or the,
audience it doesn't actually kick. In but as of right,
now The magic are in Second apron territory next, season
and so when you're looking ahead twy twenty, seven twenty,
eight like they have some wiggle, room but not like
you Have Wendell, Carter, Junior, Suggs, Baine Ben, caro And
Franz wagner all on the. Books and you're talking about
close to like two hundred million right there and probably overstating,
that but it's about it's ninety For franz And paolo
plus another forty two For. Baine that's one thirty, two
another thirty For. Suggs about that's one fifty and the another.
Twenty so you're at one seventy and that you know
the other money's. Fungible But tristan Da silva could still
be on the books at that. Point will they Keep
Jonathan isaac or? Whatever So Anthony black If i'm him
and his, agent knowing What i've accomplished this, year how
Available i've been relative To Jalen, suggs who remains just
an on off split. Superhero i'm Saying i'm not taking
less than five to one point fifty That Jalen suggs,
got and that puts you in a just wild, situation
and it's. DIFFICULT i would argue it's even harder to
make that decision because of how much The magic have
buy and large struggled this year to both remain healthy
and be a threat in The Eastern. Conference they've been
better most, recently but you haven't once looked at them and, thought,
oh they're on the precipice of.
Speaker 2: Being a heavyweight in The Eastern.
Speaker 1: Conference NOW i know, that because the money doesn't kick
in for another, year you technically buy yourself. Time but
you also don't want to run the risk of any
of these, deals whether It's Anthony blacks Or suggs, is
Or apollos Or fronds is depending on his. Availability you
don't want to run the risk of those aging. Poorly
the Reason i'm so fascinated with this extension is the
combination Of orlando's financial situation AND i honestly more have
no idea what you Pay Anthony black to player right.
NOW i think The Jalen suggs benchmark is. GOOD i
just don't even know if that's enough to keep. Him
if you're looking, at let's, say an average annual value of,
thirty maybe maybe you're latching on to the fact, that,
Well black played kind of a smaller role through his
first two years and this role that he has right
now or what he's doing this season is kind of
the first of his kind for. Him but but, still
that's gonna BE i think that's gonna be one of
the more brutalness negotiations across the.
Speaker 3: Board that's WHY i was not a fan of the
Front swagner contract extension at that point in. TIME i
know that he popped after signing, it BUT i didn't
think they HAD i think that was a sign of,
fate if, anything, LIKE i think they totally leave a
faith on that one because to, me that was just
an overpay based on the first three years of his,
career and now they're at that, situation Which i'm. Not
i'm not BECAUSE i singled Out franz BECAUSE i think
his first three years were worse Than. Pawlows SO i
think the merit of that WAS i basically think there
is no Fun max In orlando wet all of those.
TWO i don't consider those. FUN i, like it's that
is where you have an, issue and like The Wendel
carter junior extension still puzzles, me like why he would
almost double in salary when he hasn't made any, Progressions
like that's when you go out and prioritize, flexibility in my,
Opinion so you're absolutely right that that black should be
considering himself. Here he should be looking at The Jalen
sucks contract and, go that's WHAT i, Want that's What i'm.
Worth i'm as six seventh floor leader like you you asked,
you you, know asked out, loud LIKE i don't know
about the, PASSING i don't know about the. PLAYMAKING i
think that's a valid, Concern BUT i also think at that,
size the positional, fluidity the fact that he's an improved moving,
shooter the defensive upside the fact that he will still
make the right. Passes he's not an advanced. Passer he's
not Like Trey young in terms of like the creativity.
Department but he's a, good sound team, passer if that makes.
Sense those are, Valuable like you need those guys at
THE nba level because he can handle the ball for
an extended period. TIME i would have no problem whatsoever
giving him a starting guard, spot playing him forty two
forty four minutes a game and asking him to have
the ball in his hands a shit ton Like i'm
okay with. That that's valuable IF i feel that like
that as AN nba, organization that is worth at least twenty,
five if not thirty million a year in today's, league
especially if you can, produce which he's shown that he.
Can so my big question isn't really about the. Money
my big question is Is Anthony black going to get
paid By orlando or is he going ultimately to get paid,
elsewhere Because i'm kind of inclined to go the latter
just because of the salaries himself In.
Speaker 1: I'm actually wondering if this becomes a matter of they
have to choose Between jay And suggs Or Anthony, black
and they end up Moving jail And suggs if they
don't trust his, health and maybe they maybe they Trust
black as a as a shooter.
Speaker 2: MORE i don't know.
Speaker 1: That i've that they're they're not, similar but they're not
dissimilar either when you look at some of the flaws
in their, game AND i JUST i don't know what
to make Of like do you See black as having
ANOTHER i think we know What Jalen suggs is as
a jump, shooter like he could be, complimentary but if
you're looking for him to do the pull up stuff
or just more off the, DRIBBLE i don't know where
to land with. That On black in, transition, sure if
you can give him enough space to get, downhill, sure
but just the mid range, game he's under twenty nine
percent on pull up jumpers in the half.
Speaker 2: Court that's, yeah that's, like that's tough for me to get.
Speaker 1: Around it's, okay are we gonna see is there ever
gonna be a big leap? There but it's also if
you Have franz And polo And Desmond, bane you don't
need that type of leap BUT i do just kind
of wonder is there only financially, speaking we've seen these
two players Like sugs And black can work on the same.
Team that's not What i'm getting. At can you afford
second contract money for both of those? Guys AND i
don't you know if WE'RE i know that this is
technically a twenty twenty seven to twenty twenty eight, problem
BUT i kind of lean TOWARDS i don't think all
five of these guys are going to finish next. Season,
Yeah AND i don't even if they're gonna begin the
season In. ORLANDO i would bet That polo And franz
are both, there AND i Think babe will be there,
Too SO i feel like Maybe sugs Are black will be.
Speaker 2: Moved. Maybe look a lot depends on how this season.
Speaker 1: Ends but this is this is a, negotiation and it's
just it's a fascinating one for a multitude of reasons it.
Speaker 3: Is and what's additionally fascinating is for it seemed Like
orlando that will have five guys in that somewhat similar
salary bracket Like, Wagner, Powello, Bencaro, Sugs bin and Then anthony.
Speaker 2: Five thirty million or more.
Speaker 3: Guys exactly if you have five of those, guys you
would also assume that the team overall is, better, Right,
like at some point you have to look at the,
results and you have to look at like can we justify,
this like because it's can we just be honest? Here
it's not a great. Fit like the talent level is.
There i'm not just gonna sit here and question that
the raw talent level of those five players are somehow
beneath anything. Else it's just a bad fit because you
don't have anyone outside Of baine who's like a clear
high caliber, shooter and Even bane this year is not
really taking a lot of. Threes so you have.
Speaker 2: Get howard for a couple more, weeks, right?
Speaker 3: Weeks, Yes but like that's the that's the, issue Right
and and, like, yo, Look i'm WHAT i think first
and foremost before we get into like the roster, decisions
get a new head. Coach but, like if he can
make this work and a new head, coach that is,
cool pay the guys what's? Up but like it feels
like these magic who tried to get away after that
six year tenure Of Evan fournier And Nukula vucevic And
Aaron gordon where they tried everything for six years and
they still ended up in, methiocrity and they, said, No
god damn, it we're gonna push that big fat reset.
Button somehow they might end up there Still, again.
Speaker 1: The only Pushback i'll give you, there it's it's wildly
uncomfortable that if they're committing all this money and you
can't sit there and, say we, are without question confident
we have best player on a contenter material on our.
Roster you might get there as a collective in the,
aggregate you need to stay, healthy which they have. Not
and that's also the pushback, though BECAUSE theirs core, lineup
The Wendell, Carter, Junior, Suggs Paalo Franz bane statistically it's
been great this.
Speaker 2: Year it just hasn't really played it.
Speaker 3: Did trust in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: THOUGH i, mean it's it really it just comes down
to for it's if this is such an, oversimplification But
i'm going through around like who's the most concerning shooter
of that entire, Group and you could talk yourself Into,
Okay fronz look kind of better that you could talk
yourself in to any single, member with the exception Of
baine where it's A i think we've seen kind of
proof of concept From polo in the. Playoffs we're not
gonna be hyper, efficient BUT i feel like in the
past two Weeks i've said this like eighty times, now
SO i feel pretty good About polo the brand he,
plays even when it's, UGLY i think it works in the.
Playoffs AND i TRUST i Trust fronz even without a jump.
Speaker 2: Jump when you start putting these.
Speaker 1: Guys together and stack them on top of one, another
AND i don't, know that's a great. Question and you
know what's really even more concerning is that you might
make This Anthony black decision and fro you don't have,
that and you're gonna go to the playoffs in The.
East sure it looks, like but you're not gonna have
that sample size with your core lineup to, Know, okay
he does this work and what can we do With
Anthony black and the rest of. THEM i do want
to ask you this question before you pick your next.
Speaker 2: Guy, WELL i guess it's. TWOFOLD i think both of
us are agreement that He's do you think he's going
to sign an? Extension if?
Speaker 3: Anything black is offered a big time extension this summer
based off of one year of.
Speaker 1: PLAY i do think call that The dyson DANIELS i
was showed more Than, diyson, Right but you didn't have to.
Speaker 3: Say BUT i was about to bring Up dyson BECAUSE
i THINK i don't think that is an invalid. POINT
i think that there are definitely going to be agents
and players who are, Like, okay look IF i can
get a Complete brink truck delivered to my door based
off of one season of, play just to be, sure why,
not Like i'm not closely and.
Speaker 1: Restricted and restricted for agencies always a rough go for the,
players especially.
Speaker 2: Shoot so let's do this.
Speaker 1: First if he signs an extension over under a one
hundred and fifty million dollars or thirty million dollars a,
year are you taking the over the? Under that's What
suggs is averaged. Out, YEAH i think he's going to
get slightly. Under do you have to feel pretty? Okay so,
then knowing that or assuming that as the magic who's the.
Speaker 2: Better fit for this? Roster sugs Or Anthony? Black, oh
that's a good.
Speaker 3: One likely it Goes, SUGS i, think because. Shooting but
but it does concern me that he's so much injured
and can't stay on the floor like that is not
something THAT i think Is, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And, look the shooting From suggs isn't so like the
sample he has the one really good year And black
has been killing it from the corners this.
Speaker 2: SEASON i think he shot well from the corners last year.
Speaker 1: Too for, me it's more So Jalen suggs IS i
think can just do more defensively to where he's the
turn off the water, guy but he can also be
hyper disruptive AND i think you can move him up
and down the additional spectrum a bit.
Speaker 2: More right Than.
Speaker 3: Black, also he actually took a pretty big leap this
year as a, playmaker but nobody noticed because he just
didn't play enough. Minutes sucks that, Is.
Speaker 2: Can you make a leap if you're not play enough?
Speaker 3: Minutes THOUGH i do think so because it's twelve hundred
minutes this year after. All like that is not, INSIGNIFICANT i.
Think and the leap of which you've seen him take playmaking,
WISE i think is so. Substantial like his assist rate
raised from early twenties to almost. Thirty to, me that's
not insignificant that that's a pretty big, leap AND i
would trust. THAT i, LOOK i really Like, sucks BUT
i also like the idea of those two together from
a defensive. Perspective oh that's how. Exactly but that the
challenge is you don't have the shooters around, them Like
paolo isn't a natural, shooter Front wagner's a natural. Shooter
and If jamal mostly keeps putting deferent banks in three point,
jail then what's the point, there? RIGHT i, mean, YEAH.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna sign an, extension and if he,
DOES i think there's gonna be a fairly wholesale change
In orlando over the. Offseason but he and how many
games do you think the core lineup has? Played and
this isn't Really Anthony black, related but it ties Into
Sugs Polo. Franz so the presum is starting, Five, okay
do you think they've played?
Speaker 3: It? So so the current starting five like So, Sugs, Carter, Wagner,
Baying Pan. Cao, yeah two not in a.
Speaker 2: Lot.
Speaker 1: THIRTEEN i was. SURPRISED i thought it was ten for some.
Reason but it's. Thirteen so all, right, no but still
that's enough to reinvest.
Speaker 3: In, Right oh my, god that is no AND i
will say this Because Orlando magic fans have pointed this
out repeatedly to everyone who listened, Rightfully so like and,
you you also said it at the. Top injuries they've
been the thing this year for, Them and that's a
fair pushback to, yeah for.
Speaker 1: Sure and, LOOK i don't just can't factor into, it
but If Anthony black is going to be he's been
pretty cold since The All star, break when your sample
size of being an impactful assay offensive player is kind of,
Small like those types of swings.
Speaker 2: Matter who's your next pick.
Speaker 3: Though Ausir thompson In, Detroit so this is where it gets.
ROUGH i love him as a, DEFENDER i think everyone,
does because he's just that ridiculous of a defensive. Player the,
offense specifically the, Scoring, LIKE i actually think he's a
pretty good, Passer like he's not going to your primary,
playmaker he's not going to go be a secondary but
like as A churchier, PLAYMAKER i don't hate, it but
he is a rough watch when it comes to putting
the ball in the. Basket, like he's not a long range.
Shooter he can't even hit free FROs, WELL i, mean
unless you count fifty seven percent is, valuable but it's.
Speaker 2: Not it's more than half and.
Speaker 3: More he's like he's a good schlasser slasher and he'll
he'll convert around the basket and that's it pretty much
like in terms of the scoring department.
Speaker 1: Specifically AND i would also say he's not a good
enough finisher around the basket for what like that being
his crowning. Skill he's at sixty five point six percent
in the restrict, area which is, fine but he.
Speaker 2: Kind of doesn't even the pressure's.
Speaker 1: There, okay sure you Take caid off the, court and
his rim percentage and frequency plummet by insane. Margins and
so do you want something like this this. Stretch we're
recording this shortly after the news that kid was diagnosed
with a collapse lung and is gonna miss extensive period of,
time which is just an absolute. Bummer we'll Something grant
AND i out on, THAT i think over the. Weekend but,
like if you're predicated on, yes you can do the
second play making, stuff but if your offense is so
rickety that you're not as good at finishing through contact
as it seems like you, should or just not as
accurate a finisher, overall or you need that primary because
it would be one thing if it all, right he
can generate a ton of his own looks at the
rim and score that. Efficiently that's still kind of a
QUESTION i, Have AND i don't know what you pay
that guy when you point.
Speaker 2: Out all those other.
Speaker 1: Flaws now he might be ON i haven't gone through
my teams. Yet i'm fairly certain he's gonna make one
of my two all defense, teams and he is gonna
be in the running for a first team spot because
he's a. Monster but you need to see the vision of,
well what is. This let's the finishing is going to be.
FINE i think we could say it's like maybe you're
concerned about it a little bit AS i. Am but
let's just assume that is. There you have to answer the, Question,
okay what else can he? Do what else is he
and how much is that? WORTH i don't. Know even
THOUGH i like him making kind of quick decisions on
the ball or in, transition there is some things when
he gets going downhill in the half court can make
those plays out of a live, Dribble but how, consistently,
again how consistently can he do? That and when he's
more of a focal point of defensive, attention and then
even what's the ceiling on an offense that has him
as the second ball, handler even the third ball, handler.
Speaker 3: Right SO i do think, ultimately when a couple of
years from, now he is going to be exclusively a
four where he's like a ball handling four, Man AND
i think that's going to be a very intentional decision
By detroit's because then you can put another ball handler
on the. Floor, right then you can have kid and
two wing guys who can potentially handle the ball and
shoot from. Range like you can get away with having
a not great shooter and a not great. Center if
that's that power forward playmaker can set the ball, up
if he can be someone who can take the ball
up the, court if you can give him the ball
like in this short role, situation that kind of negates
the shooting need a little. Bit but if you have
him on the wing and you're occupying one of those
spots and you're also putting a non space show at
the four spot and a non space thhre at the setup,
position oh dear, God oh dear, god that's a. Problem
SO i do think they're baking that In i'm also
inclined to think that maybe an extension doesn't get done
with these two, parties BECAUSE i think That Thompson twins generally,
speaking will probably reach talk About Aman thompson later on
The west. SEGMENT i think they hold themselves in very high,
regard as they should defensively, speaking at, least but WOULD
i wouldn't be shocked if either of them, go, oh,
No i'm worth Like Freddy mill and or you kind of,
GO i can't justify that as AN nb.
Speaker 1: Organization oh that's, interesting so, you BECAUSE i do Think
osar can be dominant. Defensively AND i don't know IF
i would Call Anthony black dat you think a star
is worth less in extension talks Than, Anthony but if
you're running a, franchise you'd Pay Anthony black more Than.
Speaker 3: Soar So black has more an offensive. Punch AND i
think nowadays it's so difficult to justify or even play
guys who aren't two way players in that, sense Like,
thompson for, Example he's only playing twenty five minutes per,
game AND i think a lot of reason for that
is you need to have guys like Karais lavert coming
off the bench who can at least. Score he's not
necessarily highly efficient at. It you need to give more
shots To Duncan robinson full time, starter, granted but still.
Speaker 1: There's also the scattershot health stuff With rear, too that is.
Speaker 3: True but even so it's still not a big minutes.
Load AND i think there's a reason for that because
you just if you're an offense only, guy, yeah you're
also not going to play a, lot like in The
celtics change the game in my, opinion when they won
the champion and had like what eight guys who were
all like two way players that started something within the,
League like everyone was, like, okay look got. It missage
received like playing one way Guys Freddie mian's a game doesn't,
work and we're seeing. It we're seeing how one way
guys are just not getting those, minutes AND i have
to assume that's going to be reflected in their contracts
moving forward as. Well like is AN nb organization going
out and breaking the bank for a guy who only
dominates on one side of the. Floor AND i agree
with you by the way That thompson can be dominant,
DEFENSIVELY i am not putting that aside. Whatsoever bud if
you're playing four on five offensively not.
Speaker 1: Great, No and as you kind of alluded to, before
how you want to flesh out the rest of your
team matters a great deal there because if they're going
to commit to jail And, duran who with all these
injuries that are mounting, up he might be a shoe
in for ALL nba at this. Rate and how much
money does it take to keep him if you're that
committed to him with the, assault like the tug of
just the mental tug of war between Having, Duran Ron
holland And Nasar thompson playing prominent roles in the same
rotation gets wonky and contributes to, what Like kde to,
me probably has the most difficult shot diet in THE.
Nba and there will be people that say this is
self inflicted to an, extent BUT i think when you
look at the way defenses are able to key on
him and just how they're at any given, point it
feels like there's two or three relative non threats on
the floor away from the ball With Kid, cunningham it
gets really. PROBLEMATIC i DON'T i don't have an answer.
THERE i don't know what it would, take like if
they go to the, playoffs and it like a sawar
can play twenty five to thirty minutes a game and
then the offense doesn't get bogged down or. Anything, yeah
as you mentioned with With Tobias harris coming off the
books this, summer maybe you kind of slide into is
he just our long term four and that's how you use.
Them but if you're committed To duran and you still
want to use hot like that is something that's gonna
have to factor in. HERE i am with you that
i'd probably Pay anthony blackmore just because he provides maybe
not a dominant punch on any one side of the,
floor but like you, said the the, offensive a more
balanced punch's.
Speaker 3: CONSISTENT a consuper, consistent balanced player is worth a ton
of money in TODAY'S.
Speaker 1: Nba and and you did you hit it on the
nose when you said too that everything you through the
lens of we want to limit the number of liabilities
that we have in the. Playoffs and we've already seen
The pistons kind of like take the restricted free agency
route With Jalen. Duran and so this isn't a, oh
we need to pay our own, guys you need to
keep them out of THE rfa. Market they're clearly Will
if they were willing to get there With, duran who
was inconsistent through his first three, YEARS i would think
that they're certainly going to be willing to take it to.
Speaker 2: That with A sar.
Speaker 3: Too, Yeah like we didn't think he's gonna sign, Number,
no we. Didn't we it's so tough to even come
up with a number for him too at this.
Speaker 1: Point, well IT'S i, think like the when you have
questions about the, offense it's the sort of jail And
suggs as a line of demarcation different.
Speaker 2: Players the same With Anthony.
Speaker 1: Black but IT'S i think he would sign for way,
Less Like i'm offering him way less than like thirty
million just seems too rich to me for as art
even knowing what that is to the.
Speaker 3: Dude give Him Dyson daniels. Contract what Did daniels get?
Speaker 2: Again? Five and what was?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 3: Five? VOICE i think you're right.
Speaker 2: There let me double check that.
Speaker 1: Though, yeah SO i let's talk about it in terms
of percentages, though because the numbers are like in my,
head the numbers are still the numbers are you giving?
Him you you mentioned twenty percent For Brandon, Miller so
you're not doing that For Asar thompson then would be
my no.
Speaker 3: Assumption and by the, Way Dyson daniels signed four year
one hundred.
Speaker 1: One, hundred so is twenty five per which that's sub
fifteen percent of the salary cap on. AVERAGE i can't
justify as The pistons at this. Rate he's contributed to
more meaningful Teams Asar thomps and has you give credit to,
THAT i can't go.
Speaker 3: For.
Speaker 1: Me it has to be an average of sub fifteen
percent of the salary cap right, NOW i don't THINK
i honestly don't think He's and if that's the, CASE
i don't think he'll or maybe he looks at what
happened With Dyson daniels and Said i'm not going to
beat that Until i'll just sign right.
Speaker 2: Who Is oh this is your? Pick oh, man we
have to stay in The. East we're like kind of
running out of The, yeah it's my. Pick So i'm
saying we're still in The.
Speaker 1: East i'm going to go With Blakola bali of The Washington,
wizards WHO i love aside from his chosen reading, materials,
DEFENSIVELY i think this is someone who can make.
Speaker 2: ALL Nba All defense.
Speaker 1: Teams you also mentioned some of the stuff That Asar
thompson can do from the center of the.
Speaker 2: FLOOR i think bla Cool bali can do some of
those as.
Speaker 1: Well we've also seen someone who's willing to take more,
jumpers and there have been. STRETCHES i think it was
the start of last season's, specifically where he was kind
of cooking off the, dribble AND i, really really really
just want to see him in more of a coherent
ecosystem because he's another guy Who Trey young might be
able to. Elevate if you're gonna Get coolbally moving away
from the ball, more or is he just gonna capitalize
on those ultra wide open threes like he has as
we're recording, this he's forty percent from distance Post All
Star break on over four attempts and playing, barely playing
about twenty six minutes per. Game if he can, Hit
if you look at him and SAY i trust him
to shoot thirty seven to thirty eight, Percent i'm just
they're gonna be catching shoot. Threes most of them will
be pretty wide, open maybe to finish some of those
straight line.
Speaker 2: Drives he is of the.
Speaker 1: Players we've talked about so, far he's getting less Than Brandon,
miller but i'd pay him more Than Anthony blacker Or OS. R.
Speaker 3: Thompson, yeah but that's a BIG. GIF i agree with
you if he can do, That like this is a
fourteen game sample sized Post All Star, Break LIKE.
Speaker 1: I hear, you, well, yeah and he's had the. Pocket
i'm just he's had the pockets of offense right. Now you're,
RIGHT i couldn't. You Asar Thompson Anthony black are the
more valuable. Players they've also played for real, teams WHICH
i think. Matters but Bla coolabai has explored And i'm
not just talking Post All Star. Break they've been minor,
pockets but he's explored or hinted at a better offensive
pinnacle and that that's what intrigues.
Speaker 2: Me so sorry for interrupting.
Speaker 3: You, no, no, no, no it's all. Good like the
month he's having right now In march is one of
the best he's.
Speaker 1: Had at the end of you know, anything it's that
we can Trust march that's on THE.
Speaker 3: Nba that was actually going to be my, point which is,
like we can't trust, that and that's WHY i am.
Skeptical it doesn't mean THAT i don't think highly of his.
Potential by the, way to your, point just SO i
don't forget the reading. Material, note what was? That what
is he? Reading m Oh?
Speaker 1: Man what they called the guy like the The why
AM i blanking on the name?
Speaker 2: Here him And Rudy gobert like promoted the book already
there like The French Andrew taate or something like. That.
Speaker 3: Nolo, no wasn't. Good, No god damn. It, okay so we're.
Speaker 1: Referencing i'm. Talking i'm talking just basketball potential on the.
Speaker 3: Court, yeah that's, fair that is. Fair, uh just off
of that five million plus per. Year, no. Okay so
remember WHAT i said About Randon miller that if when
you have that position, fluid you can kind of play
off guard but also a small ball four LIKE i
don't Think kulapli is there? Yet what, DEFENSIVELY i don't
think it's out of pocket to say that he could get.
THERE i don't think that's. WRONG i don't think that's.
UNFAIR i think he can certainly reach that. Level he's
six seven two and ten, pounds he's, athletic he's, movable
he's kind of sneaky. STRONG i think when he applies.
Himself so, Yeah i'm not ruling that out at, all
BUT i just need to see his level of play
reach a higher pinnacle when it's Not march basketball and
the games are.
Speaker 1: Pointless AND i, MEAN i think you could make the,
case And i'm pretty excited About i'm fairly intrigued by
a lot of The wizards's younger, players include Like Will
riley has shown some stuff, too but The wizards have.
Speaker 2: Not you could say now the games don't.
Speaker 1: Matter the games have not mattered a single day Of blagobali's. Career, nope,
Agreed and those are those are tough extensions to hash.
OUT i think he look he someone who gets to
the rim a lot more often than people. Realize finishing
has Been he was seventy percent last year and that's
dropped this. Year he's my guess would be if he's
willing to sign for something like twenty million a, Year I'm,
Wizards i'll entertain, It BUT i don't think this IS
i don't even know if they're going to be like
wanting to, negotiate because depending on what they do With Trey,
young There's Anthony davis as, well they might be trying
to remain lean to figure out their options as they're
trying to get better after this?
Speaker 3: Year is he kind of the best candidate for The
Patrick williams contract.
Speaker 1: About five and, nineties so let's say like the equivand
of five and one, Hundred, now, yeah.
Speaker 2: That was probably do it If.
Speaker 1: I'm The, wizards because if he doesn't get any better
than he is right, Now, like if this is the,
player how much of an overpay does that end up?
Being doesn't seem not just better Than Patrick williams? Already,
yeah so are you AND i but, yes, No i'm. Not,
LOOK i just want to remind, everyone.
Speaker 2: Just to be.
Speaker 1: TREASURER i was in the bag For Patrick. WILLIAMS i
was stoked when everyone he's a. Reach i'm, like you know,
WHAT i would have made the same.
Speaker 3: Pick so, yeah, SAME i was like, yeah, Oh AND
i was even in on, it like with the contract
that point BECAUSE i, thought, ah he's he's too good
and then he just fell, through by the. Way kudos
for him to just getting the back and just checking
out that he did A Mansie, williams AND i appreciated
respected get the. Back but if that contract is up
FOR i THINK i think you take it AND i
think you run with.
Speaker 1: It uh you have you want to round us, Out
we'll do one more from The Eastern, conference as we're
doing five per.
Speaker 3: Conference So i'm. Torn is it between it's Between Heimi
hakkis And Grady? Dick who do? You, So i'm gonna
ask you who's most interesting to talk.
Speaker 1: ABOUT i think it's just the way that The raptors
are using or not Using Grady dick at the.
Speaker 2: MOMENT i think it's got to be high my hawk As.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's. Fair that's BECAUSE i actually do Like. GRADY
i think he's under every.
Speaker 1: Year the shooting percentages never line up with, it but
defenses still treat him like a five alarm. Fire and
if you go look every, year so many more of
The raptors shots come at the rim when he's on the,
floor just because of that lift.
Speaker 2: On the defense he.
Speaker 1: Provides So i'm still intrigued by him as, Well but
they seem at points this season it's not just, oh
they see more intrigued By Jacoby. Walter it's, ah we
Prefer jamison battle and that's probably an.
Speaker 3: Issue So Haimi, hakis it, is, wow did he need this?
Year because last, year you, know you were kind of.
WONDERING i think we were all kind of, wondering is
was he just a one year? Wonder like he hit
the league and the ros rookie season was fairly, decent
then that was. It that's all she. Wrote he came
back and he's just been, ridiculous like fifteen to five
and five off the, bench getting to the foul, line
like finishing at the. Rim like when you have a
guy who is not necessarily a superb athletic, player but
one who plays with his head a whole, bunch like
really understands time, space shot, creation shot, selection passing angles to,
THAT i think you have a safe player that is
not a type of. Guy like even if he gets
injured and it's out for a couple months and, like,
yeah he has to get he has to get back
into shape and get back into. Form HIS iq alone
will lift him up at fairly big avenue then a
lot of compared to a lot of players who will
be athletically. Limited so that's an. Asset AND i Think,
miami the way that they execute their, place the way
that they prefer to have guys who think on the.
Fly someone Like Hami hawkas is going to be immensely
valuable for, them be that off the bench as a,
starter as a, three as a. Four because he's also
a little bit positionally, FLUID i would not be surprised
if he gets on the better side of twenty five
million a. Year AND i say that knowing for Well
miami does a good job. Hackling but even, so that
wouldn't surprise. ME i think HE'S i think he's that.
Speaker 2: Good i'm gonna be curious to.
Speaker 1: See this isn't relating To Homa Hawkins junior, himself but
what are The heat trying to accomplish with their book right?
Now if they're still trying to be lean for twenty twenty,
SEVEN i don't think they're gonna want to extend, him
AND i think that will impact. Negotiations the other QUESTION
i have is just you have someone he's been given the.
Freedom he's averaging basically fourteen drives a. Game the efficiency
was insane for a. While it's downticked a little. Bit we,
know we know we can play make out of. That
we know he can be just not super, athletic but
he can be physical and has some good touch on the.
Move but where does he fit? In like The heat
have needed him to be on ball a bunch this.
YEAR i wonder where he fits into a team that's
going to have to displace him more, often BECAUSE i
think part of the appeal with Abam adebayo A Tyler
hero And Norman powell even At Caspers shaka shonas To
Pelee lars and they don't necessarily need the ball all the.
Time The heat's end game here is to get a
new best player at some, point and so you need
to believe one of two things That hamai Hawk Is
junior can be the player that everyone thought he was
going to be as a rookie as part of a
more crowded or a more established ecosystem that maybe doesn't
feature him as, probably or you need to believe that
the contract you're signing him to can be part of
the outgoing asset firepower that helps you get that.
Speaker 3: PLAYER i, so given how many guys are off the
books in twenty, SEVEN i don't think a twenty five
million dollar a year, deal which it'll probably start lower
in like the twenty three million ish, RANGE i don't
think that prevents them in any, way shape or, form
Like Andrew wakens to that point in, Time like if
they signed him to an extension worth a lot less
than what he's earning right, now he could also be
a treat can not Zarahro shecher's coming off the books
The Norman powell is getting a lot, Older so, like
will he justify a salary of over twenty million moving?
Forward i'm not so. Sure Davion mitchell seems like the
compensation and the game is pretty hand in. Hand Unless
i'm like just drastically Underestimating Davion. Mitchell it just seemed
like a perfectly reasonable contract what he.
Speaker 1: Provides oh, YEAH i mean especially because by and, large
again like his he shot way better In miami than
he did With sacramento Or.
Speaker 3: Toronto, yeah and he's not like a play creator like
he's he's he's a good, passer but not an advanced.
One and and like for the most, part he's he's
a spot up. Guy like it just feels like his
conversation level is, Fine like you won't have to worry
about Kill ware Or Cus Baro shako Shoon is because
they're getting taken care of down the. Line the only
guy you do have to worry a little bit about
Is Pillow larson but like he also wouldn't break the.
Bank the big question to me is what to do
About hero and at a bio in twenty, Seven like
what are those situations?
Speaker 1: There But hero also that's a veteran, extension but he's
extension eligible as.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Exactly and that's What i'm, Saying like The
hero and then bio, situations like what what are those
what are those deals going to to look? Like or
it's gonna pivot off like so many open ended. Questions so,
Like i'm not gonna Put miami's motivation into the whole
equation because The heat have been looking for a superstar
for years, now and if they don't go about their
business and trying, to you, know keep Around Haimi, hokis for,
example they're not doing their due. Diligence So i'm just
going to look at What Haimi hakis should be getting
in terms of like his statistical, impact his, influence his,
importance and perhaps twenty five could be too, Rich So
i'm going to say between twenty and twenty. FIVE i
know that's a broad, spectrum BUT i think that's the.
Speaker 1: RANGE i Think i'm probably closer to you with twenty
and we'd prefer it to average out to under. THAT
i JUST i keep coming back to this is the
most time he's gotten to spend on ball his entire,
career and that's. GREAT i just don't know how to
measure that Against. Okay and it's also the inconsistency of
The okay so has a good rookie, season then there's
the whole sophomore slump where he's basically out of the
rotation at one point To, okay now we have this.
Season If i'm the, Heat i'm probably just pushing this
to restricted free. AGENCY i don't think he's gonna get an.
EXTENSION i would actually be pretty surprised if he.
Speaker 3: Does that is fair that that was.
Speaker 2: So we're an agreement that we're at like no.
Speaker 1: POINT i guess we're just never gonna trust the three point.
Speaker 3: Clip, no there's the REASON i didn't bring it. Up
now we're at five, names so we won't even have
time to go Through Kim whitmore and how he should be.
Speaker 1: GETTING i was gonna make A Cam whitmore joke AND i.
Didn't you're welcome appreciate.
Speaker 2: It for that your most improved player pick For Cam.
Speaker 3: WHITMORE i might, YEAH i, mean, okay you saw the
launching and WHAT i was trying to say about it, though,
right new team like bat. Team he could have checked
up a ton of. SHOTS i just didn't know he
wouldn't get the minutes like.
Speaker 1: Sure, whatever whatever you, say mister of THE nba podcast.
Fame can you tell our, listeners, subscribers audience members where
they can find you and all the great work.
Speaker 3: That you, Do, yes, sir you can find me over
At Yahoo. Sports you can find me at THE np
podcast and if you speak or Understand, danish and if
you speak and Understand, danish you can listen TO bus
Or beta or catch me calling games on HBO.
Speaker 1: X until next, time and as, always we the shout
out to the, one the, only the, indellible Mister Frank
Pila tina