1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:07,519 Speaker 1: Special edition of the Fight Preach Unite podcast series. 2 00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 2: I am the somewhat competent. 3 00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: Host TJ Reeves. Big Dan's getting repped up for everything 4 00:00:12,359 --> 00:00:16,239 that's going to happen this weekend at Wembley Stadium in 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:21,160 London for Anthony Joshua Daniel Dubois big time contender matchup, 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:26,000 especially with Joshua looming for a massive fight. We obviously 7 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:29,239 know Dubois recently had a title challenge and was beaten 8 00:00:29,239 --> 00:00:32,119 by Usik. Joshua previously beaten a couple of times by Usick, 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,399 but has had several wins since then. We're interested in 10 00:00:35,439 --> 00:00:38,399 all of that, and I want some more insight here 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,880 as we rev up to Saturday, from a guy I 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,000 love going to this guy. 13 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: It has been far. 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: Too long since I have said hello to the boxing 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,560 writer David Payne. His website is the Boxing Writer dot 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,280 co dot UK. I know no one better to give 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,560 me insight and give me nostalgia and perspective on something 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,799 with British fights and the heavyweights, in particular my man 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,239 David Payne, who's been cracking off the nineteen eighties references. 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,480 Before the interview segment began, You're making me very nostalgic 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,079 for that fortieth anniversary of Miami Vice. By the way, 22 00:01:12,159 --> 00:01:15,840 recently with Crockett and Tubbs, you gotta love that. Good 23 00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:17,280 to be back with you, my friend. 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 3: It's been a long time, too long, TJ. Nice to 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,000 see and us to catch up. Hello to the listeners 26 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,040 that may remember me from back in the day when 27 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,920 this all begun for you. It'd be good to chat 28 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,959 about this fight. As always, heavyweights always get as is 29 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,719 picked up that little bit more, don't they a few 30 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:38,680 more idballs turn? So it'd be good to go through it. 31 00:01:39,079 --> 00:01:40,719 Speaker 2: So let's talk about buzz. 32 00:01:40,879 --> 00:01:43,719 Speaker 1: I love talking about whether there's interest, whether there's buzz. 33 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,680 Obviously we are seeing over here in the United States 34 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:51,920 a lot of chatter about the ticket sales and the 35 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:54,599 fact that they may have ninety thousand or more there again, 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,840 after Tyson Fury and Dillian White a couple of years 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,000 ago have what ninety four thousands something along those lines. 38 00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:05,200 How much buzz is there for the return of Anthony 39 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,680 Joshua to Wimbley in this scenario fighting Dubois his countryman. 40 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: What would you say, David, I think there's quite a 41 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,840 bit of buzz. As you mentioned, they've managed to extend 42 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,280 the potential attendance to ninety six thousand, which will take 43 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:24,759 it up to a new record which seems to get 44 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:31,400 stretched with every passing year. Yes, it's astonishing ticket sales. 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,280 We need to pause and just reflect on just how 46 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:37,080 amazing it is that these guys are selling out these 47 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,360 huge stadiums on a fairly regular basis and here we 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,919 are again extending the record. So yeah, the buzz is 49 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,639 definitely out there. It will grow as the week passes 50 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,439 over here in the UK. I guess there's two extra strands. 51 00:02:52,439 --> 00:02:56,639 There's a small degree of there's not a novelty to 52 00:02:56,719 --> 00:02:59,759 the big stadium fight anymore, so it's kind of just 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,759 part of the sporting landscape here in the UK. And 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,039 the second thing is, of course that we've had these 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,080 extended periods where these fights have been from Saudi Arabia, 56 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:14,879 so there is a On the one hand, the stadium 57 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,439 fights is are quite a regular thing, but it feels 58 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:19,840 quite fresh to be back talking about Joshua fighting in 59 00:03:19,879 --> 00:03:23,800 London again on such a big stage. So it's an 60 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,000 exciting fight. I think the tickets are all sold and 61 00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:29,680 if there's any spares, I'm sure they vanish and the 62 00:03:29,759 --> 00:03:33,319 interest the water cooler, as you guys say, over there 63 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,240 in the States, in the tear rooms, the canteens and 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,759 the paper shops and the pubs and the bars, is 65 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,280 definitely growing ahead of Saturday Night. It'll be a big 66 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:43,680 event by the time he gets to the end of 67 00:03:43,719 --> 00:03:44,000 the week. 68 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:49,479 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, Joshua has scored some impressive wins recently. 69 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,159 We know that Dubois got the upset win over Hergovic, 70 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,479 but he had a title challenge last summer, beaten by 71 00:03:56,919 --> 00:04:01,560 Alexander Usak. What kind of realistic shot does Daniel Dubois 72 00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:04,240 have or do you believe he has a realistic shot 73 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,120 with Anthony Joshua come Sary Night. 74 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: I think he has a shot TJ, which may surprise you. 75 00:04:13,639 --> 00:04:16,720 The questions kind of pretty loaded to suggest that he doesn't. 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,600 I think he genuinely does have a shot. And like 77 00:04:20,759 --> 00:04:23,519 you have been impressed with some of the performances of 78 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,879 Anthony Joshua, but reflect him back on that record. When 79 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:32,959 you look back on a PC screen and think, actually, 80 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,639 how much substances they're in the opposition that he's faced, 81 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:38,439 they were all Taylor made. It started to bring to 82 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:43,240 mind the kind of manicured or curated experience that Tyson 83 00:04:43,319 --> 00:04:46,079 Mike Tyson had in his thirties about a certain type 84 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,399 of opponent against who he could look like some sort 85 00:04:49,439 --> 00:04:53,319 of fact similarity similarly of his previous self. The two 86 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,480 don't compare Joshua and Tyson, of course, but I think 87 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,160 there's a sense of they were tailor made opponents as 88 00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:02,399 much as they could be at this stage. And he 89 00:05:02,439 --> 00:05:06,199 looked spectacular and aggressive and all those good things. But 90 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,879 it's it's only eighteen months ago. He was kind of 91 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:12,279 going through the motions with Jermaine Franklin, was way out 92 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,600 of overweight, etcetera. Not a well prepared heavyweight and definitely 93 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,360 a B or C grade kind of guy. So I 94 00:05:19,399 --> 00:05:22,120 was impressed at the time when he knocked out those guys, 95 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,680 dismissing in Ghana fight completely. It was fun as a spectacle, 96 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,800 but as a competitive kind of barometer, I don't think 97 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,759 it told us very much, but. 98 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,399 Speaker 1: I think I interjected it did tell us one thing. 99 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,879 He took it a lot more seriously than Tyson. Fury 100 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:39,920 took it, and. 101 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 3: That was difficult though that's true, good. 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: Line, but he and he learned from what Fury didn't 103 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,519 do and how he could capitalize and he eradicated. 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: I love that word. 105 00:05:52,879 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: In Ghanu in short order, and I think some people 106 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,759 sat up and took notice of that on the heels 107 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:03,839 of his I'm also blasting Auto Valin recently as well. 108 00:06:04,199 --> 00:06:06,720 Who again he could say B level or C level fighter, 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,040 but he got him out of there, So that's that's interesting. 110 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,079 Speaker 2: So I love to couch it this way too. 111 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: If it's going to go well for Dubois, what are 112 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,720 you looking for in terms of an ingredient or two? 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: I think I think kind of on the boxing level, 114 00:06:20,959 --> 00:06:23,680 I think the body shots from Dubois will being porn. 115 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,519 I think Dubai has got to be aggressive. He's going 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:27,920 to have to move his head a little bit more 117 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:30,600 than he did against Herkovic. Whilst the result and the 118 00:06:30,639 --> 00:06:33,759 outcome were very entertaining, it was thrilling to watch and 119 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,079 I loved watching that fight. It really got me on 120 00:06:36,079 --> 00:06:37,680 the edge of the seat because I love to see 121 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:40,639 Dubois come through such a tough test and I love 122 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,000 to see the arrogance of Herkovic on foot, you know, 123 00:06:43,439 --> 00:06:47,000 doused with cold water. But he got hit a lot 124 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,759 in those early rounds, and if he gets hit as 125 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,040 much as that from Joshua. You'd have to imagine that 126 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,199 Joshua is going to put him away. As you allude to, 127 00:06:54,439 --> 00:06:56,639 he's been a good finisher over the last few fights, 128 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:59,879 so Dubois can't afford to give him that many opportunities 129 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,480 up his best chances to come forward and be aggressive 130 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,839 and throw lots of punches in combinations. He can't afford 131 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,240 to stand at mid distance with Joshua. You would imagine 132 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,839 who's got the better long distance arsenal. I think I 133 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:16,600 think Boy is better a little closer. But the body 134 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,279 shots will be a fact that we saw, and I 135 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:22,480 know our colleague Dan has got a very clear view 136 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,680 of the seek body shot, but I think it showed 137 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,079 the power that he had to the body borderline or otherwise, 138 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,319 and he showed that as well versus Herkovic, and he 139 00:07:34,439 --> 00:07:37,120 was willing to perhaps bend the rules with the head 140 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,800 all that kind of thing to upset Hergovic. And maybe 141 00:07:39,839 --> 00:07:41,839 you may need to do some of that again here. 142 00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:46,920 He's obviously an outsider. Joshua has the pedigree as the 143 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,120 experience as can match him physically, etcetera. And he's probably 144 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,279 the purer puncher of the two. But I definitely think 145 00:07:54,519 --> 00:07:59,040 Boys has a chance here, and I think more on 146 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,639 the mental side, which is always we kind of joke 147 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,079 about being the sofa psychologist TJ. But both of them 148 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,639 still come into this with some questions about their their desire, 149 00:08:10,639 --> 00:08:14,759 their appetite, their willingness to take shorts, et cetera. Joshua 150 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,920 for different reasons because he's at the other side of 151 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:20,360 perhaps his peak, and Duboi because he's still proved trying 152 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:23,920 to prove those critics wrong. How would Dubois fair when 153 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:28,240 Joshua hits him flush and things get difficult, And does 154 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:30,800 Joshua have the appetite for it if things get difficult 155 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,519 for him at this stage, because we've we've seen evidence 156 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,679 of doubt in both in their careers. So physically great matchup, 157 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,159 I think it could. It could be very entertaining, whether 158 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,200 it's long or shorts. 159 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: We love the inside of this man. 160 00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:47,159 Speaker 1: He's the boxing writer David Payne joining us on a 161 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,039 special edition of the Fight Freaks Unit podcast in advance 162 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,200 of Joshua and Dubois. We remind you to order it 163 00:08:53,279 --> 00:08:56,360 through our friends at PPV dot com. They sponsor us 164 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,159 here on the pod. You need no long term subscription. 165 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,480 You buy what you want order the pay per view. 166 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:05,519 It's reasonably priced right through PPV dot com. Obviously it's 167 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:11,240 orderable through other outlets and other entities in Europe and 168 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,840 the UK and elsewhere. But we just make mention of that, 169 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,080 all right. While I have you here, this kind of 170 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,759 ties in. We mentioned Tyson Fury and a looming rematch 171 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,519 with Alexander Usik. Now it occurs to me that I 172 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,480 haven't really gotten you're on the record reaction to what 173 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,519 Usik almost did with a knockout in that fight and 174 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,759 eventually won the decision. So I guess let's start right there. 175 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,559 How surprised or not? I know, it's after the fact. 176 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,840 Were you that Usik came that close maybe to a 177 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,559 ko and eventually got the win. What was your thought 178 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,480 on fight one of the undisputed heavyweight clash. 179 00:09:45,519 --> 00:09:47,879 Speaker 3: I was surprised TJ that he came that close to 180 00:09:47,919 --> 00:09:49,759 knocking him out. And I think if it had not 181 00:09:49,799 --> 00:09:53,559 been a fight of that magnitude, if Fury had not 182 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:58,799 had his record of being able to come through such 183 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:03,200 difficult moments, well have been stopped in another scenario with 184 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,759 different fighters with those kind of things going on. So 185 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,639 I was very surprised, as you know, I've been a 186 00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:16,000 big Fury fan boxing wise for a long time. There 187 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:21,600 was definitely signs of decay in his performance, But equally, 188 00:10:21,639 --> 00:10:24,480 I thought I personally had it closer than a lot 189 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,320 of people did on the kind of scull the unofficial 190 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,000 scorecard that I was keeping, and I don't think it 191 00:10:31,039 --> 00:10:35,000 would take massive adjustments for Fury to do much much 192 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:39,240 better in the rematch. It's probably an unpopular opinion these days. 193 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,840 I think that there seems to be the consensus that 194 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,480 in rematches, the winning fight attempts to do it again, 195 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,519 but perhaps more easily. And we do have to question 196 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,879 how much desire, appetite, and peak tyson Fury has left 197 00:10:56,039 --> 00:10:58,720 with given the way that he's abused his body at 198 00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:02,399 various times through the last ten or fifteen years. You 199 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,840 sink he's perhaps the fresher of the two, despite being 200 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,840 the year older. But I still believe you or he 201 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:09,960 could do it in the rematch. 202 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,279 Speaker 1: And it's give me something, same same kind of question. 203 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,679 Give me something that fundamentally has to be better if 204 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,960 he's going to win the rematch, Give me something that 205 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,320 has to be better in your mind. 206 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,399 Speaker 3: I think his tactical discipline has to be a little 207 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,759 bit better. I think there were times when he was 208 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:31,639 having success and then seemed to be, for whatever reason, distraction, 209 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,720 trying to be the showman, trying to make it seem 210 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:36,600 easier than it actually was, seemed to get distracted, and 211 00:11:36,639 --> 00:11:39,480 whilst it wasn't defining factor in the fight, I think 212 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:42,279 there were moments where he lost momentum when he didn't 213 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,840 need to. That he could have if he remained focused 214 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,840 and remained continuing to use his physical advantages, he could 215 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:52,919 have He could have kept the momentum, kept more ownership 216 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:55,240 of the of those middle rounds, and he seemed to 217 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,080 see that whilst under no real pressure, and then just 218 00:11:59,159 --> 00:12:01,879 lost all lost his way completely and as we know, 219 00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:06,679 got into huge trouble in the later round. So I 220 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,799 think you will physically, you would hope will be at 221 00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:11,320 least on par, if not slightly better. And I think 222 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,519 tactically needs to be a bit more disciplined, uses physical 223 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,240 advantages to greater effect. 224 00:12:16,919 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: A couple more minutes here, love kicking this around. Now 225 00:12:19,399 --> 00:12:23,000 you are a nostalgic one like I am. By the way, 226 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,000 we said coming off the weekend that this is this 227 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,480 week the forty third anniversary of Leonard hearns one. I 228 00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:33,519 have not gone back and watched that. I was a 229 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:35,240 little TJ when that was going on. You're a little 230 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,120 younger than me. I got to go back and rewatch 231 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:40,759 that one. But we both love the nostalgia of all 232 00:12:40,759 --> 00:12:44,440 these great fights. But in terms of nostalgia as it 233 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,120 relates to the heavyweights, where do Joshua and Fury belong? 234 00:12:49,799 --> 00:12:53,919 With the previous kind of biggest named heavyweights, which would 235 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,720 be Lennox Lewis, who maybe belongs above all British heavyweights 236 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,159 as the former undisputed champion. 237 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,279 Speaker 2: Hall of Famer. 238 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:03,399 Speaker 1: Frank Bruno is also in the category of the eighties 239 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,679 in particular as a world champion. Where where do Joshua 240 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:10,320 and Fury belong? Kind of in the whole conversation of 241 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,639 the last let's say thirty five years or so of 242 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,320 British heavyweight champs, with the understanding that Lewis is in 243 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,679 the Hall of Fame, I get that, But what do 244 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:20,240 you make of that? 245 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 3: Well, I think almost unequivocally you would place Thanks Lewis 246 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,639 at the top of any list of British heavyweights, and 247 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:34,080 he featured pretty high, I think on most discerning viewers' 248 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:41,639 list of heavyweight's all time period, any nationality, etc. I 249 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,960 think Joshua from a commercial standpoint, has probably surpassed him 250 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,200 in some ways. He's been an absolute box office phenomena. 251 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,679 You could argue he has been more popular, more broadly accepted, 252 00:13:55,759 --> 00:13:59,519 more popular even than Lewis. In that respect, you could 253 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:05,039 argue that he's a better household name, household name and 254 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:12,559 beyond sports fans. But the obvious impossible measure is how 255 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,600 would they fare against each other? We will never know, 256 00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:18,440 but I think most of the consensus would be that 257 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:23,360 Lewis would would triumph if such a fantasy matchup could 258 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,360 be made. So I think he's got the better record. 259 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,720 He would win in a fight between the two. But 260 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,799 it's impossible to argue with the impact that Joshua has 261 00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:34,559 had on the sport here in the UK and the 262 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,159 heavyweight division internationally. I think he's completely livened it up 263 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,600 again after a few dour years of the Clitch Goes 264 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:49,080 and Fury. Similarly, he's changed the landscape. His record can 265 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,960 be debated and argued over, but he's done some remarkable 266 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,679 things both commercially. He's done some remarkable things in the 267 00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:58,279 ring that we will talk about in one hundred years, 268 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,559 we may not be here to talk about them, but 269 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:03,679 the generations to follow will talk about him getting off 270 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,240 the canvas versus Wilder in the same way that someone 271 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,120 of the other great things in the past has been 272 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:12,360 talked about, the great Homes fights and the early fights, 273 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,519 and Joe Lewis that Fury Wilder fight will be talked 274 00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:20,279 about for forever. So he's got that and that can 275 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,399 never be taken away from him. And he worried to 276 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,120 win a USIC rematch, then obviously he can begin to 277 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:30,559 rebuild his case that he deserves mentioned alongside Lennox Lewis 278 00:15:30,559 --> 00:15:35,080 in that pantheon of great British heavyweights. They're certainly probably 279 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:38,679 the top three, with due respect to those that have 280 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,200 gone before. You did talk about the last thirty or 281 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,720 forty years, So I won't be offending any of our 282 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,240 truly older vintage listeners who might be tearing at the 283 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,600 radio talking about Tommy Fahr and Henry Cooper and Bruce 284 00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:57,399 Woodcock and all the other guys Bud Fret Simmons and others, 285 00:15:57,399 --> 00:15:58,879 other guys from a million years ago. 286 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: You did an interview with me previously with a Henry 287 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,279 Cooper shirt on by the way, the British heavyweight that 288 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,120 fought Mhammad Ali and Kali down actually, so I remember that. 289 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,559 I recall that as well. All right, So just one 290 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:16,879 more here, which this is rather obvious. If Joshua is successful, 291 00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:22,159 especially emphatically, then what's looming in a Fury rematch win 292 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:24,399 is you know this, you know where I'm going is 293 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,639 a Fury Joshua matchup that we haven't seen, because obviously 294 00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:32,440 the argument can be made here that if Usik beats 295 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,200 Fury in the rematch, what else is there really for 296 00:16:35,399 --> 00:16:39,120 Usik in the present. If he's beaten Joshua twice, he's 297 00:16:39,159 --> 00:16:41,559 beaten Fury twice, He's got a massive amount of money. 298 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,159 He's a former undisputed This is me saying this former 299 00:16:44,279 --> 00:16:48,279 undisputed champion, a cruiserweight, former gold medalist, locks certain hall 300 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,559 of fame. I don't know what else there is. He 301 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,600 doesn't need to fight Joshua third time for any reason. 302 00:16:54,039 --> 00:16:57,759 But if Fury wins that fight, then we got intrigue 303 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,279 on Fury Joshua. Yes, just follow up that here in 304 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:02,639 our remaining moments. 305 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, as you say, they never tend to retire 306 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,440 at the top. We've mentioned Lewis, he managed it, and 307 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,240 he always said there's always one more fighter, there's always 308 00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:16,720 another fire. So for you Seek, one could hope that 309 00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:19,519 if he did win this match, he would retire as 310 00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:22,880 the king of the Hill, having achieved everything. From Furious 311 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,319 point of view, yes, obviously, if he triumphs here and 312 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,319 we can go into twenty twenty five with the very 313 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:33,079 real prospect of Joshua versus Fury, that does seem a 314 00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:36,839 certain neatness to that. The amount of money is gargantuan. 315 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,720 The two profiles couldn't be more polar opposite. It really 316 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,039 would be the culmination of a decade long story, really, 317 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,240 which is as at times looked like it was impossible, 318 00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:51,079 it could never happen. It was wishful thinking it best, 319 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,880 and obviously in the various losses along the way too, 320 00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:57,480 it's looked like it's gone a long way away. But yes, 321 00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:01,720 we're two wins away from it being possible. I don't 322 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,559 think Anthony Joshua de rise a fog on conclusion, and 323 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,759 obviously Fury getting through you seek the second time of 324 00:18:07,839 --> 00:18:13,920 asking is also a huge if. But we'll see, we'll see. 325 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,000 I no longer have a dog in the race as 326 00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:21,279 they said a dog in the fight, be quite happy 327 00:18:21,319 --> 00:18:24,880 with either victor in either fight. But the idea of 328 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,839 a Joshua Fury fight, if that needs them both to win, 329 00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:31,279 and that's probably the best outcome because that really would 330 00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:32,039 be amazing for. 331 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,759 Speaker 1: And they've been trying, they were wanting to have that 332 00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:37,839 happen back a few years ago. It didn't happen, and 333 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,359 it may never happen. And then again, it's boxing. Just 334 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,799 when you think something's not going to happen, it happens. 335 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: So it would be the perfect finale for both, wouldn't it. 336 00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:48,519 Let's be honest, whatever happened beyond it, it would be 337 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:49,599 the perfect. 338 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 2: And I stress, I stress this all the time. 339 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,319 Speaker 1: These are massive, massive sports stars in the UK and 340 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,839 over there. We don't appreciate it the same way. Fury 341 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:02,720 more so than Joshua because frankly, Joshua's only fight fought 342 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,039 here one time and Andy Ruiz knocked him out and 343 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,359 dumped him. But Fury fought here several times and demolished 344 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,400 Deontay Wilder in their last two fights. So there's obviously 345 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,480 more run, more credibility, if you will, for Fury, I 346 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,119 think with American fight fans. But we do not appreciate 347 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,279 nearly as much what Fury and Joshua would mean there 348 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:26,519 in the UK where you are, So stay tuned and 349 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:29,200 we'll see if we get there. All right, So you've 350 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,359 done a great job helping me preview this. Are we 351 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,559 ready to go to see whatever's going to happen on Saturday. 352 00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:38,640 I don't know in any of our conversations that I 353 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,519 was ever a bigger advocate for what Anthony Joshua might 354 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:44,119 do than David Payne was, But in this case, I'm 355 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,160 a bigger advocate that I think Joshua is going to 356 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,759 have a fairly easy night. Maybe I'm wrong and is 357 00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:53,160 going to get it done and maybe even emphatically and early. 358 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,759 We'll see, but that's my read on this. Just one 359 00:19:56,799 --> 00:19:59,200 more time and we're getting excited as the middle of 360 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,400 this week becomes this weekend to see whatever is going 361 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,440 to happen with this British main event. 362 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 2: Final thought, please yeah? 363 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 3: My final thought is I tend never to underestimate the 364 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,480 difference that Don Charles could make to a heavyweight and 365 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:16,119 training Donia Dubois, we've seen a massive improvement in him 366 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,279 in his last two or three performances. Don Charles is 367 00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:21,960 a great tactician, but he's also very good at eliciting 368 00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:25,400 performances from troubled heavyweights. Did a lot with Derrich Zura, 369 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,039 and that's a huge factor in me having a little 370 00:20:28,039 --> 00:20:30,240 bit more faith that Dubois could be the real threat 371 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,079 on Saturday. But you may well be right. Joshua can 372 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,400 be destructive at his best. 373 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: This guy, by the way, is my favor for so 374 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,599 many reasons. Whether we are discussing the Dukes of Hazzard 375 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,720 off the year as we were, we didn't get around 376 00:20:42,759 --> 00:20:44,039 to the A team. I love it when a great 377 00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:47,240 plan comes together. In some other eighties shows, he also 378 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,319 has a phenomenal painting behind him every time I talk 379 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:55,039 to him. On the video of Rocky Marciano's massive right up, 380 00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:58,880 right hand bomb knockout of Jersey Joe Walcott back in 381 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,319 the day, YouTube it up from the nineteen fifties. Love 382 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,720 that moment, says why we love the boxing writer at 383 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,440 his site boxing Writer dot co dot uk, David Payne, 384 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,200 thank you, thank you, thank you. I enjoy catching up 385 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,640 with you, and let's see what happens Saturday Night with 386 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,279 Joshua Dublan. The main event that's coming from Wimbley Stadium. 387 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Thank you as always, my friend. Great to see you, 388 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:24,519 great to chat with you, and you Tjack Cresswell Chogginson. 389 00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:27,880 Great stuff here on this special edition of the Fight 390 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,359 Preach Unite podcast. 391 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:30,279 Speaker 2: More coming up 392 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: As we build towards the weekend here on this podcast 393 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:33,480 beat bye for now