Speaker 1: You hear us talk about ways to unlock VIP membership
through your Apple account and the Apple Podcast app, and
also through Patreon or Spotify. To unlock a full VIP
membership with full access to archives and ad free website
and customizable podcast feeds that are compatible with the Apple
Podcast app and many iOS and Android apps, along with
streaming ability right from our ad free mobile site, go
to pwtorch dot com slash go VIP. That's pwtorch dot
com slash go VIP That'll give you all the details
on everything you're missing out on by not being a
VIP member, the whole array of VIP exclusive podcasts like
The Way Keller news bulletins, our post pay per view roundtables,
The Fix that I host with Todd Martin, Everything with
Rich and Wade, and an array of other shows with
different hosts and different themes, along with unlocking our archives
dating back nearly four decades nearly two thousand. Pro Wrestling
Torch weekly newsletters over two decades, a podcast on demand
dating back to the mid two thousand, starting with pay
per view roundtables of fascinating retro radio shows, including many
that I hosted in the nineteen nineties and an ad
free website. Exclusive content on that website only for VIP
members written and audio, and a lightning fast, smooth, AD
free VIP mobile site for all of our content. Don't
miss out on all the benefits. Treat yourself to a
VIP membership PW torch dot com slash Go VIP, go
all the way, Go VIP. PW torch dot com slash
go VIP.
Speaker 2: All right, Welcome to the newest episode of Worse or
Better with Joshua White and Stephanie Chase is a very
in demand young lady, so she couldn't make it this week,
but I got the next sexiest person I know. I
brought in known PW Torch member and sometimes post show
appearance guy one Adam Kid Adam, thanks for filling in for.
Speaker 3: Me anytime, my friend.
Speaker 4: How are you?
Speaker 2: I am as well as gonna be on a Sunday.
I am effectively putting off mowing the lawn and it's
I assume, just getting cooler and nicer outside as I
do so, so it's very exciting for me.
Speaker 4: So procrastination always works. It usually always works out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you ignore a problem, it always goes away.
I assume I'll go outside the lawn will just be
mode imperfect. That's how I expect this in.
Speaker 4: That's how it should be.
Speaker 2: That's how it should be, and I'll keep you guys
updated on that next week. This week, however, Adam and
I were going to kind of expand on last week's topics.
Stephaniely I went through basically every Summer Slam ever and
kind of did a holistic worser better on Summer Slam
as a brand. Adam and I gotta kind of follow
that up. We're going to talk about just the last year,
like Summer Slam to Summer Slam, how's wrestling doing. It
was going to be WW specific, but Adam didn't want
to leave out the sickos, so we thought we should
cover how ADEW is kind of doing from all in
to all in. I believe that he really just has
some things he wants to say about ADW and he
figured this is a good way to fit those and
either way it'll make for good conversation. So we're gonna
break this down just kind of into like wrestling topics,
and we're gonna kind of determine how each of those
are doing over the last year. They're probably going to
be either worse or better or maybe in the middle.
In the middle is possible. It happens. Sometimes things don't change.
Speaker 4: That's true, all right, Adam.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna start off with booking, like how's booking
doing over the last year. We should note that booking
and matchmaking are actually separate concepts, But I think one
interesting way to look at it is to look at
the cards for SummerSlam last year and the card this
year for Summer Slam. So last year the big matches
were Cody Rhoads and John Cena on Night two and
then see Him Punk and Gunther on Night one. This
is also where Seth miraculously Rules of the Century isn't
injured and catches in money in the Bank on Punk
Yes Yes, and Roman Reigns and jay Uzho beat bron
Breaker and Bronson Reid in a tag match. So the
undercard was less impressive than the main matches for sure.
This year's main matches, though, I think we can agree
there are three big ones. Those are CM Punk and
Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns and Rowing. And even though this
one is not for a title, maybe the biggest is
Oba Femmy and Brock Lesner, Helena Cell. Those are your
big matches on this year's Somerside.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that will definitely be the biggest spectacle. I think
of the three.
Speaker 3: Will be the Pallana Cell with Oba and uh Brock.
Speaker 4: I think you know it's gonna be ten minutes of carnage,
probably ten or less, that's my call on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe because of the Cell, I think we might
stretch it out. But yeah, it's not going twenty and
it's gonna be tight, and it's gonna be hard hitting,
and it's the match I'm most anticipating for the actual match,
even though I think we have a pretty good idea.
Who's gonna win that one?
Speaker 4: Yeah for sure? So that cards nah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3: The problem with it is I've seen I've seen Brock
Oba twice now twice.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Now, granted this is a blowoff Helena Cell, big stipulation,
and it's a little more novelty than the other matches,
So that's at least the up the stakes. From that standpoint.
We've seen Seth and Roman how many times.
Speaker 2: Many many many. Theoretically Seth always wins, but we also
if you look at history, you know that's not even true.
Speaker 4: So No, that's a wrestling lie, kind of like a
Cody lie. And then I am a little bit intrigued
by punkin Cody just because that is at least a
fresh matchup.
Speaker 2: Right, Neither star is even remotely fresh. We're talking to
forty year old dudes one fifty, both of them in
the main events for the last couple of years. But yeah,
I still agree that it's the fresh matchup of seam
Punk and Cody Road. So this is my second most
anticipated match this year. But what do you think? You
think this year is looking better or worse than last
year as far as the card is concerned.
Speaker 4: It's kind of a push a little bit. You had
the novelty last year, the scene of Turned Face the
night before and came back to the Goods and you know,
I'm gonna give you my best. You know, it was
the two most nauseating characters and wrestling in the last
ten years going against each other. So I'll give a
slight I'm gonna give a slight edge to this year
because of Olba and Brock, but I'm gonna say the
build has been not good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's that's kind of what we're talking about. So,
like we said, booking not the same as making matches,
despite what Tony Kahn will probably tell you. Right, So
booking was one of the metrics we wanted to measure
how we've been doing the last year in general. So
I would agree with you. The stories leading to this
have been mostly bad. I would say booking wise, we
are definitely doing worse over this last year building into
this Summer Slam than we.
Speaker 4: Were last year. Would agree, And I think both companies
right now, and I'll touch on it when we get
to the aw part of all ins booking. For my
personal taste, both the messed up two matches that would
have been better left alone, which is I would have
much rather seen Roman versus Oba instead of Seth. You
could have done the Brock thing. Any other could have
done that. As a Survivor series, you could have done
that at Roald Rumbell. There was other places that you
could have done that match. And I personally me Adam
Kidd would have much rather seen MJF versus Will Osprey.
And you know, I get the whole passing the torch
and that, but once again we've seen Kenny and Will
wrestle in AW. I mean, it's totally different, the stakes
are different now Will was more of a heel then
Now they're both kind of on the good side and
all that. But I just to me who's and I'll
probably get pushed. The bigger star is MJF. And he
may be the best heel in wrestling right now. I
think he's the best overall performer in the business. You
take it all from look his promo, sticking to his character,
his in rings. You know he can multiple styles. He's
I feel vastly underrated as an entering performer, but that's
also because he doesn't wrestle all the time. He's very
much more Roddy Piper than he is like a Brett
Hart who was always wrestling as a champion. Like But yeah,
I just because I because I'm intrigued by the Kenny
Will story. But I think you could have told that
story better after Will wins from MJF, and you could
have built the next six to twelve months of television
and pay per views around Kenny and Will getting back
to each other. That's just my opinion for me, I
would have much rather seen that match, and I know
I would have rather seen Oba Roman and I want
Oba to destroy.
Speaker 2: Him absolutely and now I understand that they're probably putting
that off for WrestleMania. So WrestleMania, I think is bigger show,
bigger platform, theoretically a bigger rise for Oba. But what
they do with him in the meantime matters rematch with
Brock not bad. But I think winning King of the
Ring and then a baby face saying no, I don't
want a title match. That's not a big deal. I'd
rather beat up this guy. That is a break not
They got to keep Oba hot in the meantime. If
they're gonna push this all.
Speaker 4: The way to Mania, yeah, that's book e mail practice. Honestly,
you bait and switched your whole fan base. You're invested
in the King of the Ring of whoever wins this
is gonna be the in the main event of SummerSlam
and going for a title and then literally a week later,
it's like, nah, because he kicked me in the balls,
I'm fuck being champion. I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna just
I want to fight this guy in a grudge match.
I'm just like that's that's shortsighted, bad booking. And there's
been a lot of hot shotting lately, which has been
driving me crazy because there's no reason for it.
Speaker 1: Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions
of all of your favorite weight color podcasts and ple
Torch dayly casts on Spotify. Just go to patreon dot
com search pw Torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier.
You get a seven day free trial by the way
to kick the tires a bit and see if you
like the service, and then sync it with Spotify and
you can listen to commercial free versions of our free
shows like the Waykeller post shows, the Waykeller Podcast, Flagship,
our flashbacks, and also the pw Torch day the cast
lineup again all commercial free and nice streamline listening experience.
But with third tier membership you can also unlock all
the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, to
Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week,
the Wadkeller News bulletins, post pay per view roundtables, and
an array of other VIP exclusive podcasts with different hosts
and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon
and search pw Torch and subscribe and sync it up
with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works.
Go to Patreon and start your seven day free trial.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we have storylines. Oh this was me. I
put storylines as a separate conser. I think booking and
storylines are intertwined. Yeah, so that's kind of basically what
we're talking about. Anyway, Summer Slam storylines I think are
just generally worse this year. But if you want to
go ahead and move on to AW you already stepped
into a little bit just the card from all in
last year compared to this year. I mean last year,
the big three matches were Hagman and John Moxley for
the world title.
Speaker 4: Main event, the huge crowning yep, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then you had Ocata and Omega for the whatever
the other two trinkets they were fighting for that they
put together and then immediately took apart because they can't
have less than twelve belts. And you had Tony Storm
and Mercedes it's the big women's match from that one.
I mean, those were the three big matches last year,
and this year it seems like we're pointing towards Obviously,
the only official one in theory is Omega and Osprey,
and even then Kevin Knight could win the title between
now and then he's in the main event of the
Unnecessary Redemption pay per view. Yes, and then you're probably
gonna get Willow and Mercedes unless Tekla retains at the
aforementioned paper And I mean, those will be your biggest
two matches, I would say going in this year. So
how do you feel about the card last year compared
to what we're likely getting this year?
Speaker 4: I think I think last year's card is definitely better
than this year's card right now, but it's so early.
They haven't really built out the rest of the card.
I mean, we just talked about two to three matches,
and you know that it's gonna end up being like
a seventeen to eighteen match, twelve hour extravaganza that starts
on Sunday and ends somewhere like after Labor Day. So
there's still a lot because you know, Fletcher's gonna probably
have a big match. I would assume you're gonna is
Hangman gonna do something now that he's kind of back.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you don't if.
Speaker 4: You don't watch Collision or listen read Josh's column, then
you wouldn't know that Hangman actually came back a week
ago yesterday, which you know because they didn't mention it
on Dynamite. But you'd assume he's gonna be involved, but
they're gonna do something with Swerve, you would. Yeah, I
mean that poor guy's had his legs cut out from
underneath them numerous times, going into all In every time too.
It's like, thanks a lot, Tony. Yeah, we keep giving
gold Watch title reings to people instead of pushing what
should be the future of your company. Want to if
you want to use the stupid pillars thing, he should
be a pillar now, not Jack Barrier, Sammon Gabara or
Darby Allen.
Speaker 3: Like, let's put a real talent as your pillars.
Speaker 2: Right, oh worse for better? The Pillars of a w
would be an episode I'm writing this down.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, break that down and then Stephanie can't be there.
I'd be more than happy to come and help you
with that one too.
Speaker 2: The pillars such as they are now, so yeah, kind
of like we're talking about SummerSlam though, so booking storylines
going into all and like we said, we can't really
make a definitive statement on their card. I thought last
year's card was very good though.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep. And he did a great job last year too.
They built up like for months, you knew that he
was going after Moxley and the death Writers for all
and it was, you know, it was the team version
of the end of WrestleMania. When Cody finished the story,
you had kind of the Avengers all come out to
kind of keep the baddies out and at the end
of that match, and but it was great, you know,
it was very good. A great crowning. That's a great
crowning moment at your biggest show. You have the babyface
standing tall, the crowning moment to Kathetti, wonderful. I like
a little bit of chaos, as you know, because we've
talked like it would make my heart happy for Will
to lose in Wimbley in front of everybody. Just that's
just me. We don't always need to send everybody home happy.
And you still probably make some of those people happy
because everybody loves Kenny, right, Yeah, I like Kenny.
Speaker 2: It would be at least that would be a shocking
ending if nothing else, so worth considering. Although I still
think the chances of that are less than one percent,
slightly over zero. Now, like I said, we said the
card last year is good. The card this year probably
won't be as good. But the booking over the last
year of AAW leading to all in and the storylines,
how do you feel about those? You feel in better
or worse storylines? Booking this time last year.
Speaker 3: It's a mixed bag.
Speaker 4: I think that I think he's doing There are some
things that have been pretty compelling and cohesive from a
storyline perspective, but that's just not aw's style of how
they do things.
Speaker 3: It's not Tony's style.
Speaker 4: So I've come to like, as much as it drives
me crazy, kind of lower my expectations from They're a
matchmaking company. They're a how many star ratings can this
match get? Whether or not from a storyline perspective if
it makes sense, But it's going to be a banger
and that's what there. They are catering to the niche
of the niche audience that they are, which is why
they don't grow. They haven't taken much more market share.
Why they're you know, dynamite, you know it's averaging between
fifteen hundred three thousand people in live attendance each week,
is because they're catering. They're super catering to their rabid
fan base, which is great, they're making all them happy,
but you're not bringing in anybody new that way. I know,
for me wrestling wise, the entering, and I know I'm
probably in the minority is it's important, but it's probably
the second or third most important part to me. I
want you to talk me into the building, make me
invest in why I want to see you two fight
each other, and we just don't get enough of that
in AW.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, that's just I.
Speaker 2: Don't think you're in the minority on that. If you
look at the numbers between WW and AAWAAW is almost
one thousand percent of the time going to give you
a very good match, several very good matches mm hmmm.
A lot of wrestling where at WW they will give
you good matches now and again, but you usually going
most of the people there are there for the storyline.
It's kind of like you said, AW is a niche
of a niche is like a nook of a cranny.
Like wrestling in general has very little mainstream appeal, and
then if you take the maximum possible appeal of wrestling
in the mainstream and cut out a tiny corner of that,
the best you can do is probably what AW is
doing now, which is why you got AW fans saying
Aw's the best it's ever been. It's so good, it's
doing great. It's doing maybe as good as it can be.
If this is what it's going to be, this is
maybe the best version of that. But if this is
what it's going to be, it's gonna be this and
never anything more into perpetuity and and.
Speaker 4: Then you know what, as a fan, they'll never be
my number one that hits what I like the most,
But I like I appreciate that there they are here
because I can scratch both those inches. I get my
good storylines and not right now, I haven't. The storylines
haven't been good in WWE, But you know, I get
the more story driven, soap operaty type of product out
of the WWE. And I know that I can watch
AW and I'm gonna get the really good entering, hard
hitting action that maybe does always makes sense, but it's
at least entertaining. And you know, so they're they're catering
to a fan like me. I get a little bit
of both, and I can pick and choose when I watch.
Speaker 3: That's why I don't watch collision.
Speaker 4: Because all collision is is good matches that don't really
make much sense. So I do I can skip that,
and I just read your column and I know what's
going on.
Speaker 2: Right, So you know, last night it was a bunch
of Canadian destroyers and cutters and matches nobody cares about
and won't be mentioned next week on Dynamite. And for
some people that's enough. But it's never going to grow
an audience because the audience that wants that they're there,
that's it.
Speaker 4: And they could grow their audience without being unauthentic to
who they are. Small tweaks would fix it. We'll get
to that later. I know that's a topic I think
that we wrote down for later on as far as
I know, small things that would make a huge difference
to them as from an overall appeal standpoint.
Speaker 2: But right, and I'm sure there are tweaks that wwe
could make that would make them appeal yeah, hardcore audience
or to the there's there's a vast middle ground that
neither company wants to explore. Sometimes it can be kind
of frustrating.
Speaker 4: It's a lot like politics. Sometimes they're ones really far
to the right and the other one's really far to
the left one. Really, we need somebody that's in the middle,
give me a little bit of all.
Speaker 2: Of it right where most people are in the middle
in general.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: The politics being similar to wrestling is unfortunately all too real.
But this is not a political show. We're not here
to top politics. That would be a horrible show. I
wouldn't want to listen to it and participate in it.
Speaker 3: But I'm sorry, did I say that out loud?
Speaker 4: I apologize.
Speaker 2: These things happen, you know, live audio being what it is. Anyway,
we can move on to the next topic. The next
topic we had in mind, whether we're doing worse or better,
was just the top of the card and star power
in general. We'll move back to WWA. So, compared to
last year, moving into this year SummerSlam, ww's top of
the card.
Speaker 3: Is exactly the same.
Speaker 2: It's almost exactly the same they have But we knew
that was going to happen. He was on retirement tour
this time last year. It is almost exactly the same.
It's Cody Road, Cempunk cefter all ends, the other guy.
Who's the other guy? Roman Reigns Holy he's the guy right, Yeah, yeah,
So it's almost exactly the same.
Speaker 1: Admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts
with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now
you can listen to him every week on The Nickys Club,
a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.
Speaker 5: Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
the Nickys Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE
for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered,
The Nicky's Club where the wrestling feels like the coolest
club in town.
Speaker 1: Nick Barbatty wants to be part of your pro wrestling
life every week, so why not let him go vip
PW torch dot com slash go vip for full details
on signing up. We're compatible with Patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
and just about any other iOS or Android app out there.
You also stream directly from our ad free VIP website.
The nickis Club waiting for you every week at PW
Torch v ip.
Speaker 4: With when and You've had a couple of people that
have gotten there for a cup of coffee. Sammy, Sammy's
main event adjacent but not quite there. Gunther's main event
adjacent but not in that where he's there every single week.
In that conversation, they kind of get there, they'll have
a match, they kind of and the and none. You
have the Oba who's that like next crop that he's
not there yet, but it's coming and it should come
real fast, you hope. But that's one of my biggest
issues right now with both companies is it's just the
same people being recycled in different over and over and
over again at the top. And I think you have
some really viable younger talent in both companies that you
should be starting to elevate to that next level.
Speaker 2: Right So, like you said, top of the card DMEs
exactly the same. Brock Lessener returned last year, so slam
after her some time away. Like you said, Gunster is
kind of on the cusp. Like last year he was
defending the title, but we pretty much knew he was
going to lose it. To see him punk who is
defending the title this year against Cody And these were
all the same top In fact, brock and Ova, it's
the same exact match for Merestlemania, it's the same people
at the top. Yeah, so it's hard to say it's
worse or better. It's almost exactly the same. Yeah, and
then I mean we can do the same for all
In at the top of the card. But it's very similar.
I mean, I guess last year we were talking.
Speaker 4: I think they've changed a little bit more, some based
on injuries, Like Tony's not there, Tony Storm, So you know,
that's the elevated Tuckla into that spot. And you know,
she's not my cup of tea, but I know a
lot of people like her.
Speaker 3: And she's done a good job.
Speaker 4: Whether you like her stick or not, you watch when
she's on and you listen when she's on commentary.
Speaker 3: You might not. It might not be your thing, but
she grabs your attention.
Speaker 2: It is the thing. It's kind of like it's a
similar thing as what Tony was doing. It's completely different,
but like it's in the same realm.
Speaker 4: Ofudos a little bit, you know, just the delivery is different,
but the content's kind of the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So now again, this is the elevation of will Ospray
this year. Last year he was almost made it, but
him and Hangman Hangman went out and ended up winning.
Going and this year it's the Osprey show. I think
Omega is at a higher points and it was last Yeah,
because last year he he just came back to face
Okada and then he lost that title. He was out
again for a while. So yeah, I mean Kenny obviously
star power wise Osprey, I mean.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's a push basically, like it's exactly the same,
but it's about the same quality.
Speaker 4: And star power is subjective to as far as like
like if you compare the two companies from a star
power standpoint, the guys in wwe have much more star
power and a but I will say that that's because
from a more eyeballs thing and they're more of a
star driven company. And whereas AW has from the inception
pretty much been an ensemble cast. It's it's not about
one person, it's about the collective roster doing their thing.
Speaker 3: And that's and that's good.
Speaker 4: I mean, it keeps certain things fresh if you're not
always Yeah, I'm trying not to be too critical of
you know, it is what it is like if I
walk down the street and I ask ten people if
they knew who Roman reigns or see them Punk is,
and then I asked them if they knew who will Ospray.
Speaker 3: Or Kenny Omega.
Speaker 4: Was I'm going to get way more people that know
who Roman and see them Punk are than that know
who will Ospray and Kenny Omegar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not even an opinion thing that you
have to apologize for. That's an absolutely right fact of reality.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So top of the card, like I said, AW,
it's different, but like it's them about the same.
Speaker 4: From an entering perspective, aw's top of the card is
much better than WWE's well absolutely straight in ring, although
I mean Roman and Punk had one of the best
matches this year at WrestleMania, so there's also that. So ye,
and without doing a bunch of flips and stuff or
like doing anything that may or may not kill yourself
doing it. So that made that match even more impressive
to me is that it was just a wrestling match, right.
Speaker 2: The flips, the Canadian Destroyers, all that stuff is has
its place, but like it's not, it doesn't always improve
a match. In fact, sometimes it takes away from a match.
See last night's episode of Collision or just reported want.
But the next topic we had was and you kind
of alluded to this earlier, the kind of mid card
stars in the uh you know, rising young stars that
are kind of on this cusp. So like last year
at SummerSlam, as far as like these middle people that
were rising up, there was not a lot going. No,
not at all dominic mysterial beat aj styles. I would
say it's the closest thing as Summer Slayer of somebody
move it up the card last year. That's the only
one I can think of.
Speaker 3: And since then he's kind of stagnant, neated.
Speaker 4: They didn't capitalize on what he was doing coming out
of WrestleMania and then SummerSlam last year. Now he's just
kind of in the background, is part of a faction
and the head scratching.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's triple a mega champion. I believe that should
mean something, but I mean on WWE proper that means
basically nothing.
Speaker 4: It's no different than when you tell me Bandidos the
ROH champion.
Speaker 2: On a w and congratulations, right, and he's going to
go lose for a lower card aw title on pay
per view. He does it every month.
Speaker 4: Yep, it's a good match, it'll be It'll be a
great match.
Speaker 2: I'd love it. It's amazing.
Speaker 4: He's very very good.
Speaker 2: So that was rising stars last year Summer this year
we have. Now we have Oba Femi, obviously a big
rising star, although again we have noted not everything is
going perfect with him. He is actually he is doing well.
His performance his matches, oh, that is very good, but
the booking behind him is not doing him.
Speaker 4: Is anything that's wrong with Olba right now is not
because of Oba?
Speaker 2: Correct, he is doing it. And then we also have
now Trick Williams just doesn't officially have a match. Let's
assume he's going to be on the summer card. And
I don't know what they're doing with Javon right now,
but I think Trick and Oba is a better Like
they're moving up the card. They're doing better with young
talent moving upwards this year than they did last year.
Like we said, last year was basically just dumb.
Speaker 4: And they're doing more with Melo this year than they
did last year because he very well. Maybe who you
see Russell Trick, Oh, yeah, that's kind of going in
that direction, trying to think of who else there's Javan
I think they're kind of starting to see where they're
trying to show like a darker edge to him to
where he might be looking at a heel turned to
beat Penta. I'm thinking he made face Penta SummerSlam for
the intern Continental Championship.
Speaker 2: That's possible. It's been kind of a slow motion whatever
they're doing, they've been doing it very slowly because they
were hinting at that months ago.
Speaker 4: And then we got that new young up and comer
Baron Corbin.
Speaker 3: You know that, just get back.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, But to me, it's like, why do we
keep bringing in these retreads in both companies when you
have people that you already have there that if you
put some good creative and give them a chance, could
end up being so much more than a Baron Corbin,
which is a low bar like me, and you could
probably be a better Baron Corbin, even though the end
of the days is a sweet ass.
Speaker 2: I like Baron Corbin almost, but what he does.
Speaker 4: But he's a mid card guy.
Speaker 2: You need those guys, and he's good.
Speaker 4: You do it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's not coming in to change the game.
Even competing for the US title, which looked like him
maybe a little too much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's more of a twenty four to seven guy.
Speaker 2: Speaking of great titles. So as far as young stars
this year, I would say we are still actually doing better.
Speaker 4: Though, yeah, way better, way better there this time.
Speaker 3: They've actually brought people.
Speaker 4: Up from NXT and done some things with them on
the men's side.
Speaker 3: Now on the women's.
Speaker 4: Side, you have Fatal Attraction which there or Fatal Influence
whatever they call themselves, with JC Jane and Filing or
whatever like. So they brought them up and they've made
them a centerpiece kind of of the women's division on SmackDown.
They're involved in multiple different you know, tentacles. But then
you brought up Blake Monroe and what the what the
hell has she done besides some backstage stuff and then
you know, beating up Candice Larray or whatever the hell
the other day, which so I mean, as good a
job as they've done with elevating some of the guys,
the guy from NXT, i'd say they're worse. Do you
have not done a good job with the female channel?
Even Soul Ruka? Do you put the Intercontinental title on
her and that she hasn't done nothing? Yeah, that's a
flabbergasting thing to me. Yeah, it's triple HS booked the
women's divisions, So well in Black and Gold NXT and
now he on the main roster. It's like Vince has
taken over his body.
Speaker 2: Well, don't forget last year at SummerSlam, we did have
young up and comer Lera losing Becky Lynch for the
Intercontinental title, and she's at least got something going on now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she looked that last night. She's had a few
I don't know if you've seen did you watch that?
A nice main event?
Speaker 2: I just watched the clip. I'm just not gonna watch it.
Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, I mean, you didn't really miss much.
But she she added a few new wrinkles to her
offense to make it a little more brutal, a little
more heelish, which I appreciated, like not playing like I
think that when you turn heel it's important that you
don't do as much as the flippy, like don't do
the flashy stuff that gets you over as a babyface
switch and be a little more brutal, a little more underhanded.
So I that was I appreciated that last night. The
rest of the show is kind of just you know,
dog shit.
Speaker 2: But on a similar note, I don't have a lot
of great things about Kevin Knight, but when he turned
heeled this last couple of months, like, he doesn't do
the fly flippy, splashy stuff. His finisher is basically.
Speaker 4: A rock a bottom at this point yep.
Speaker 2: So I mean I think that's good, and that kind
of transitions us into how ae W is doing with
their young stars compared to say, last year. All in
last year featured I mean in the main spots, no
real young rising stars. I mean it was Ocada, Omega,
it was Hangman and Box. I mean those are established.
I mean Hangman is young, but you know he's established.
Speaker 4: So he's been around for so long. I mean, yeah,
he's been there from the beginning. Plus if you were
a fan of the Elite and all that, I mean
you knew of him for five years before AW started.
So yeah, he's still young. You got in the game early,
which is a good thing. You know, he is still young.
That's how it should be. You you Bill, You get
that young guy that you know, hey, this guy's got something,
and you push him and you establish him, and then
you have him at the top of your card or
near the top of your card if you all things
go right for a decade or more.
Speaker 3: That's how it should be, or.
Speaker 2: You have him lose a stipulation where he can't even
challenge for the main title anymore and he's just aimlessly
challenging for the cards. That's another option.
Speaker 3: That is an option. Don't get me started.
Speaker 4: Tony Kahn's contribution what I think his only contribution to
wrestling should be, which is just write checks and let
other people handle the rest of the stuff, because ugh,
it makes me, drives me crazy.
Speaker 1: But before pushing play on the weight Keller Pro Wrestling
post shows, check out PW torch dot com and our
TV review section and skim through a full rundown of
the TV show if you didn't see it. That's your
way to get an overview of what happened before you
dive into our in depth analysis of the key happenings
on the show. That's PW torch dot com. You're home
for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with
my TV reports, and also check out our NXT and
Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on
Saturday nights, and of course our live pay per view
and Ple coverage on weekends, all waiting for you at
PW torch dot Com.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're working a way around that stipulation,
but it's still dumb. So back to the actual topic,
young rising talents in aew Like we said, wasn't a
lot going on around all in last year. I mean
this year, Like I think I already noted, Kevin Knight
is kind of the young guy who they're moving up.
I mean he's challenging Omega for the title next week.
Speaker 4: That's a big That's yeah, that's pretty cool. That's a from.
Speaker 3: When he came in. You if you were to ask.
Speaker 4: Me when he came in and debuted, well, in a
year's time, is he going to be wrestling on a
pay per view for the heavyweight Championship?
Speaker 3: I told you hell no, No.
Speaker 2: I would have said title is best case Mario for him.
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, for sure. So I mean he's done, he's
done well with what they've given him, and I give
I will give Tony credit of they've pushed him. Hey,
let's see what we got with this guy. So baby steps,
we're moving in the right direction at least. I mean
there's this one kid though that I wish that they
would give a good, like good long look at her
name's Athena She you know, I know a lot of
people probably haven't heard of her. But I think that
if they brought her to the main, to the up
to main aw proper, she might take the world by storm,
if he would just you know, No, maybe it's just me.
I see something in her. I think she could be
pretty good.
Speaker 2: She's been pretty good in Ring of Honor for or
so it's a dead thing, but they have to carry
them sometimes. Yeah, okay, so yeah, I don't even know
if she I want to check how old she is real,
she's only thirty seven. Yeah, she's been around forever and
she has been wasted for three or four years in
both companies.
Speaker 4: She was raised in WWE before they released her. I
don't right, and then well you know why the ways
her in WW because Vince Vince was still in control
once she came up, and then he cut her and
for probably numerous reasons, because Vince is a flaming piece
of shit. But that but I mean, but they have
done a good job here recently with the Maya World
of young talent.
Speaker 2: They've made the best out of.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I firmly expected after she lost to Mercedes
for her to disappear for you know, a year, and
nobody know what happened to her. So I mean, at
least she's still being showing on TV. She has there's
something there. I think she has some talent. And then
there's a lot of weird stuff like guys that have
been around that were still around last year but they're
kind of still just meddling right where they were at
takeshta Kyle Fletcher, like there's not elevated. They're such great
talents and they're not giving them enough. There's too much
like taqush To loses way too much in my opinion,
for as talented as he is, and the people love him,
especially now that he's back as a babyface, like he's
just he's just so likable of a character. As likable
as he is, then Kyle Fletcher should be your next
the guy that should be coming up right behind them.
JF is your You're dastardly heeled because he does it.
He makes you want to punch him in the face,
and that means he's doing his job. Like he's a despicable, cocky,
arrogant heel that you want to hate, but you have
to respect his game.
Speaker 3: Same as MJF.
Speaker 4: As much as you hate him and he's all I'd
like to smack him up, But then you got games,
got a recognize game because when he gets between the ropes,
he can bring it.
Speaker 3: Now that they'll both cheat and be underhanded.
Speaker 4: To win, but I that is a admirable trait sometimes
is you know, you're you're not playing to lose, you're
playing to win, You're trying your you know, and they're
heel they're not supposed to be honorable.
Speaker 2: Right, And Fletcher beat Takesta Klean in their last match,
like the beach break or whatever, and so yeah, we
were talking about young talents that should be moving up.
You're right, Takeshta and Fletcher have kind of they're at
the same level they were this time last year. MJF
is a very young talent. He's younger both well he's
actually a little Fletcher, but he's very young. But he's
not like a rising young star. He's established. Even though
he's extraordinarily young.
Speaker 4: He is their star. To me, he is he is
heading shoulders. From a star power standpoint, He's it. That's
if I had if I'm Tony Kain, if I'm aw
any media that needs to be done anything that I'm
promoting something or I have a commercial that I'm going
to be doing. MJF is who I want as the
face of my company in the public, because he is it.
I don't know, maybe I'm fanboying too much for him,
but you know, no, great, and I think he's been
so much better since he came back. It's almost like
somebody's given him a little bit of filter and a
little bit of the annoyances that he had from his
past reign. He's much more serious, a lot less of
the goofy because sometimes you get a little bit too
comedic with his helish shit.
Speaker 3: He just he's been so good this year, just excellent and.
Speaker 2: Right, not a lot of low hanging fruit stuff and
not a lot of the dumb comedy. He's still funny
and hilarious at time. But yes, yeah, serious way if
that makes sense sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I say they're I say both companies they're
doing a little bit.
Speaker 3: It's give them.
Speaker 4: Both that they're a little better than last year, but
there's still a lot of room for both to improve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree, And I would say also, the women's
main event at all In will be either Tekla thirty
three or Willow, who I think is thirty two, so
fighting Mercedes. So I mean on the women's side, they're
doing pretty Gooch well, it was established.
Speaker 4: You know, she's been around, she's had she's been up
and down the card.
Speaker 3: But Tekla, yeah, that was a she was when she
first came in.
Speaker 4: And I because I didn't know ever from Japan, but
I'm like, who is this? Need you know, I don't
like her look, but I mean I do respect. I
respect what she does. She's a good wrestler and she's
growing on me slowly like a wart, but you know
she's going on me.
Speaker 3: I appreciate her.
Speaker 2: We agree as far as young writing the stars, both
companies are doing better over the last year than they
were this last year. So that's a bright spot because
mostly they've been the saver worse. I think I would say.
Speaker 4: I think the I think both companies too, should take
their top young talent, the Fletchers and the Kesha's, the Oba's,
the Tricks, the Javan's, and you need to start really
getting them closer to the top of the card though
for the longevity of your company, because your top stars
are aging out.
Speaker 2: Right stars right now should be used to put over
the younger stars coming up, like Keny Omega should be
losing the Fletcher Oba should be beating cmpunks. That kind
of stuff should be happening. Yep. Absolutely time to give back,
so they got room to improve as far as that goes.
But you'd already stated this is not a big deal
to you. But another thing I have on the list
here is a general match quality. So over the last
year or so, and I mean last year's SummerSlam, I
thought punkin Gunther was a good main event, and a
lot of people liked Cody Rhodes and John Cena. I
had quibbles with that street fight. First of all, it
went thirty eight minutes thirty eight and you.
Speaker 4: Just so people know they're listening to this, me and
Josh talk outside of like the podcasts and comments sections
are when he's Cols and this.
Speaker 2: Is not our first conversation.
Speaker 4: No. My philosophy, and I've stated this numerous times, is
there is almost zero circumstances that I need to see
any two wrestlers russell for longer than twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: And this is actually a spot where we disagree. I
don't mind a twenty twenty five minute match, especially if
you got like will osp I can watch them for
thirty minutes, no.
Speaker 4: Problem, especially on a pay per view where it's where
it's big. I don't need to see that on a
random raw or a random dynamite.
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, keep it movement, But in what world
do you need to see Cody Rose in John Cena
fighting for almost forty minutes?
Speaker 3: Hell in Hell?
Speaker 4: Like if I was in Hell, that's that's where I
would that would be on a loop. So if I
was in Hell, just so people know, if it would
be on one screen, you'd have that match just on
a loop, and then on the other one of the
Darby Allen and Jungle Boy, Jack Perry and you Wheeler
Udah clips just NonStop, and then that's and I'd be like,
this is the fiery Duff's the hell. I wish I
would have been a better person when I was alive.
Speaker 2: That is on brand. It's crazy though, that Cody and
Sena match could have been very good if they chopped
off Oh I don't know seventeen minutes, cause I had
a lot of interesting moments and spots and what worked.
But it's just so.
Speaker 4: I appreciate that they did that kind of Match because
it hit a lot of Sina's inabilities at this later
stage of his career and being I don't think it
was that he physically couldn't do more. I think he
was physically afraid to do more because you know, I
got movies to make kids. He's got a correct You
can't hurt my vocal cores.
Speaker 3: On the Voice of Honda.
Speaker 6: On Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop when nxtends, it's
just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and alongside my co
host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT. We
go live on the pw torch YouTube channel about fifteen
minutes after the show to break down matches, storylines, and surprises,
and we take your questions and comments from the live chat.
Miss us live. But you still want to be part
of the show, send your thoughts to pw torch nxtatgmail
dot com and catch the replay on YouTube or on
the pw torch Daily cast feed. Just search pw torch
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. And of
course you can always stream the latest shows at pw
torch dot com.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, last year I would say was not
great in the ring I thought, I mean Becky and
Lyra I thought was good.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: They also had Naomi, Rhea and EO in a three
way women's match, which I'm gonna being very good but
not even close to God. It's just Rio and Ea
versus yeah together. So yeah, it wasn't last year.
Speaker 3: I say this year is gonna be better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say, without having seen it, I'm almost certain
this year will be better. From any we said, Brock
and Oba should be very good, Seth and Roman can
have very good match, and then punkin Roads are both
like very good at what they do. I think they
will be able to put together a good match hopefully
don't go forty minutes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope not, because like I'm looking at the
Seth and Roman matches, like there's different levels in what
you like of what makes the match like a five
star match. I think that they will do a very
good job of in match storytelling of what their facials
and the talking. I think that that's gonna get scratched
stage for people that look for that in a match.
Is it gonna be a Meltzer gushing five star match? No,
it's not. And you know, but that's not WWE style,
So I mean, I don't go into every walk. Sometimes
he surprised me and a match is so much better
than what I ever expected it to be, you know,
and then I'm pleasantly surprised, I guess because the bar
is so low. Like the triple threat McIntyre, Gunther and
Seamus was at WrestleMania or King of the or Clash
at the One of the Moat or whatever one of
those were, the hand of the three way over the
entercamp that was. That match was so much better than
like I was ever anticipating, like sometimes you do that,
Whereas like AW, I'm more surprised when a match doesn't
hit from an N ring perspective, like if something's clunky,
I'm like, oh, that's an odd ofty because they're normally
that's their strong point is they're always gonna bring it.
You're gonna get five hundred spammed you know, finishers with
kickouts and near falls and you know you can't turn
your head away if that's your thing. I mean, it's
you know, two just totally different. Whereas like if you
asked me better or worse from a match quality for AW,
for this year. To me, I'm just gonna say it's
gonna be a push because they always deliver. They always
deliver from an inn ring perspective, WWE the bar from
last year from what I can remember that Summer Slam,
it's not.
Speaker 3: Going to be a hard bar to get over.
Speaker 4: The top for a better, more compelling, you know, in
ring product.
Speaker 2: I'm going with you. This year also is going to
have I mean Penton Gable. That would be a good match.
There'll be a lot of solid entering stuff this year SummerSlam. Yeah,
and you already said this, and I think I agree
with you entirely. All in will be very good like
it was last year. Although the main event last year
Hangman in Moxley, that was actually a very ww style
storyline forward match. In addition to the high work rate,
and it was a mox match, it was bloody, and.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of Gaga and other stuff.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean and that's great.
Speaker 4: And guess what, their fan base loved it even though
it was very WWE, like I know, right, don't tell
anybody though, believe.
Speaker 2: The fan base will probably prefer this match. I'm sure
Meltzer is gonna have to be wearing like eight pairs
of underwear to get through this match.
Speaker 4: Oh god, yeah, it's us. He's already a start and
at seven stars and it can only go up from there.
Speaker 3: He doesn't he haven't even touched yet.
Speaker 2: It's seven stars, right, as long as neither one of
them physically takes a dump in the middle of the ring. Actually,
that might do it for him. Honestly, I don't know
what they could do to get less than seven stars.
Speaker 3: I don't know. And it's gonna be a great match.
Speaker 2: It will be.
Speaker 3: That's where I'm That's where.
Speaker 4: My whole thing of like when I say, oh, I
really want to preferred MJF to be the one going
against Will. Don't get me wrong. Both matches are gonna
be great. And I and with what Kenny has been
doing lately and being more serious and his promo work
has been so good that I think that if he
continues on that path and they can get Osprey to
be more serious Will, which from what I heard, he
was much more serious last night on Collision than he
was on Wednesday.
Speaker 2: And hopefully I like that on Dynamite this week because
he literally just humble the guy in submission.
Speaker 3: It was good, I said on.
Speaker 4: The in the after show chat on Wednesday, I called
him Will Cena for all the goofy facial expressions and
over the top mannerisms he was making in the background
of the Penny and Kevin Knight interaction, and I was
just like, come on, Will, You're better than that, you know,
But yeah, it's gonna be a great And I think
they can tell a good story. I do, and I
think that they do have time. There's just I if
I'm booking that product, I do the last three months
totally differently than what they did, Like the Derby thing
never happens.
Speaker 3: If I was going to take the title off of.
Speaker 4: MJUF to set this up when he lost to Darby
is when he should have lost to Kenny, if you were,
and then you start to build because he wins that
at the same time that Will wins the Owen and
then you could have the first face to face right
after Kenny wins the title and you know, set it
up and then start to tell the story because he
didn't tell. I've had people Zach Barber try to tell
me that this was the story that they were telling
all along. Was the passing the torch with Kenny. No,
it's that was not the story. That was never the story.
That story just started the minute that Kenny won the title.
The story was is Kenny and Mox fighting for the
good versus evil side of will Osprey of which road
was he going to go down? That was what the
story was that they were telling. And they pivoted, which
is fine. Sometimes you have to pivot. There could be
reasons they pivoted that we're not privy to that made
them have to do it.
Speaker 3: Mjf' knee.
Speaker 4: There could be a lot of different things of why
I'm fine with the story they're telling. But like I
said earlier, you could have told that story after all
in with Mox involved and really gotten some good compelling
not only in ring stuff but out of ring stuff.
And that's what I think it's been missing all on
from me aw where you know ww and sometimes it's
all about luck in right place, right time. They caught
fire with that whole bloodline thing, and really the bloodline thing.
What sparked that and took it to the next level
was something as silly as Sammy getting at it in
and it was a happy accident. I don't think that
was meant to last as long as it did, and
it caught fire and they left them in there and
look at what it produced. Aw has not had that
one prolonged. They've tried and it just hasn't hit. I
think that was what they were trying to do with
the Death Riders and the conquering the Death Riders, and
it just didn't hit, didn't hit the way it needed to.
But I think if they could catch their nWo, their
stone cold Steve Austin, which I know it's easier said
than done, you know, because you just but once you
catch that, I don't trust that Tony has enough to
grab a hold of it and go, I'm riding this
until it bucks me.
Speaker 2: You also have to know you caught that. You can't
be so set in what you've planned on doing that
you missed something happening kind of on the periphery. Ww
is missed like that. A lot of times they might
be missing, like right now with oba on.
Speaker 3: That I think they are.
Speaker 4: They almost missed it with Daniel Bryan or Brian Damson,
whichever you want. Finally he relented and did the right thing,
and maybe my favorite WrestleMania of all time was Wrestlingia.
It was so many, it was memorable. You had the
great opener with him in Triple H. You had the
streak ending whether however you feel about that one way
or the other, if it should have happened, it was
definitely shocking, and we're still talking about it fifteen years
almost later. So you, like you said, you have to
know be able to say this is this might be
that moment, and I need to grab it as a
promoter or a booker. So hopefully the I want anybody
to see me in the comments sections on or when
I've called into Wade shows. I don't criticize AW because
I hate it. I criticize AW because I want it
to be even better and bigger and sustainable than it
is right now. It's my criticism comes from a good place,
even though it doesn't always come off that way.
Speaker 3: That's just because I'm.
Speaker 4: An asshole, But you know, it's because I want to
see it improve and I want it to be here
for a long time. I want them to overcome and
be better than WWE from a business the whole standpoint,
because I do think they're a more moral company.
Speaker 3: I'll just put it at that.
Speaker 2: Right, they usually have the moral high ground in any argument. Yeah,
TKO being what it is, and also yeah, and history
is never going to look good at this point.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I I went off on a tangent there.
I don't even remember what the topic was. Match quality, Yeah, yeah,
so yeah we're great. Yeah, the aw great match quality WWE.
They always sneak one or two in that surprise you
on every show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm confident I think we landed on this
year on paper, should be a much better in ring
product than last year.
Speaker 4: And I'll even say this, I'll even say it all
in we'll probably I was gonna say, be better, but
then I'm thinking Osprey and Kenny will definitely be a
better in ring main event than what Hangman and Mox was.
But I also don't think that Willow, if it's Willow
that wins, that Willow Mercedes will be better than Tony
Mercedes was probably not right.
Speaker 2: Teches would be interesting, but I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think it would be a better match honestly, because
and once again we've seen Willow Mercedes how many different
times a couple. At least at least it's for a
different title. This time, it's elevated, it's moved up the card,
which I've said in conversations of that's what I think
they need to is to have their their Triple h
in the Rock or stone Hold on the Rock where okay,
their rival restarted when they weren't huge stars yet for
the mid card titles, and they grew, They grew, and
the states grew, and their star power grew through many
years to where they became the company they were the drawers.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Also AW has people they can do that.
Speaker 2: With, right, Like, one day I want to see Takesha
and Fletcher for the AW world title. That would be
just like and actually neither Willow nor Mercedes have held
the women's world title, so could be that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so I think I think it has a
chance to be better. You know, look at me being
positive bodyw I think it's going to be better.
Speaker 2: Who would have guessed?
Speaker 1: You know, that last segment you're just listening to and
the next one that you're waiting to listen to, those
can be one second apart. With a VIP membership, you
can unlock our commercial free versions of our shows pw
torch dot com slash Go VIP tells you how to
do it. That's PW torch dot com slash Go VIP
options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple
account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync
up with Spotify or just about any iOS or Android app.
With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed
for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go
to pw Torch dot com slash Go vip for full
details on all the options to listen commercial free and
with upper tier options unlock our VP exclusive podcast run
throughout the week every week.
Speaker 2: I think right now, yeah, yeah, again, assuming Kenny Omega
and Osprey doesn't go off the rails someway, it should.
Speaker 4: Be better, all right.
Speaker 2: So our next topic was production and also kind of
just gone a kind of lump commentary into that over
the last year. Now, that's not going to be like
Summer Slam specific, right, it's just.
Speaker 4: We Yeah, we were just doing kind of like a
state of both companies overall too, from year to year,
from last year's summer extravaganzas to this summer's extravaganzas.
Speaker 2: So right, so ww they haven't had I mean, has
anything weird happened? They got ridden? Did they have Pat
McAfee and commentary last year? Maybe I don't remember me
a little bit, but he every once in a while. Yeah,
so they've improved, they have less Pat McAfee. I think
Joe Tessa Tour has settled into his position.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's went down a little bit for me.
I think he's I think they're in his ear too much. Now,
that's my biggest complaint with WWE commentary is, you know,
some things that are being said on there is being
fed through the ear piece and is not something that
would have been said normally throughout if you were really
commentating a real match.
Speaker 3: Just too much of the shilling, you know.
Speaker 4: That would be my biggest I think the quality of
the actual commentary is good. I think they have a
good mix. I like Cole and Graves, I think do
good work together. I think Barrett and test Tour play
really well off of each other. There's an absence of
irritants to steal a weight thing, whereas I can't say
the same thing for the competitor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like WWE is probably commentary wise about the same.
Like I said, is kind of thee.
Speaker 4: Is we're about the same in their production value is
the same because their production value is always a.
Speaker 2: Plus Oh yeah, absolutely, although I wish they would put
more work into the stage and pay per view set
up like they're very like us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I used to love the old unique Each pay
per view had its own when they came, it was unique.
It didn't like like you were just watching every other show.
Speaker 2: Like you would see a clip from it, you'd be like, oh,
I know what show that was. Yeah that was cool.
But yeah, you're right. As far as their production camera work,
lighting a lot of stuff, Yeah, that's always going to
be a that's the thing they do. They've been doing
it for years. They got it basically to a science.
Although they had they had a couple audio gaps a
couple yeah, which was weird. Very the fact that it
stuck out was what made it.
Speaker 3: It shows you how much of an anomaly.
Speaker 2: It was, right, whereas if we get a a E
W audio graph like, oh yeah that tracks Wednesday. It's Wednesday, right,
So aw. Production wise, I think actually they are probably
they've been doing better. They used to have a miss
a lot of stuff on camera. They haven't had any
like crazy, oh my god, they missed somebody going to
a table moments lately.
Speaker 4: Right. They used to have those, Yeah, they've.
Speaker 3: Gotten better with that.
Speaker 4: I think both companies recently I've noticed haven't done their
performers any favors.
Speaker 3: They catch the wrong angle.
Speaker 4: So you see that they're totally missing, Like damn it,
I do you got that one camera shot you held
on with that angle just a second too long without
going to a different where you just see the person
completely miss right. But that's gonna happen. That's just.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're hey, yeah there's no net but uh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, lighting wise, like aw commentary is a pet peeve,
and I think that any everybody in the wrestling world,
I think feels pretty much the same way that they
need a definite upgrade in their commentary. Tony Shiavanni needs
to just I'm not gonna say that anything bad, like
harmful needs to happen to him. He just needs to
go away. It's time to go home the lowest and
your dogs. And you know you're not good at this job, Tony.
I mean, and now that I've went back and I've
watched some old night, you were never good at your job.
So I don't know how you're import I see why
you didn't have a job in wrestling for twenty years,
because you weren't very good at ex Caliber is ex caliber.
I just wish he'd slow down a little bit, show
a little more emotion. Tans is great. Tanz is the
best thing going, And when Don Kallas is on commentary,
that's the only two shining, shining bright spots of commentary
and aw or Taz and Don Kallas. Other than that,
Nigel's okay. I like ian ric Abonni when he steps in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but other than that, we did a whole wors
better on commentary. Yes, you were not kind to Tony
Schavanni or aw in general. They just have not found
like the right mix. Like Caliber has things he's good at,
but Chevanni has nothing as good at. I think we
agree on that. He's nonsensical, doesn't what's going on, yells
out platitude tells you how good what you're watching is,
like you don't have your own opinion on it? Right,
very annoying. FYI Collision last night, which I know you
didn't watch. While watch and you're lucky to not have
to watch, had the big show Paul White and Tony
Shavanni teaming up on commentary, and it was truly awful.
Speaker 4: It was Yeah, I just thought of what I'm like
in my head, I'm back in Hell, and you have
the Scena match with Cody. You have all the other
people from AW I talked about and then, but I
don't get to hear either one of those. I have
headphones that are glued into my ears, and it's Big
Show and Shavanni commentating just on a loop, NonStop.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It's pretty close to hell. It was
very bad.
Speaker 3: They I can feel the heap right now just thinking
about it.
Speaker 2: They didn't know the names of moves, like Big Show
kept weirdly calling Sheida, he kept calling like Caru. I'm
like the fact he calls her by her first name
and nobody else in the world does, says Ever watched
one of her matches.
Speaker 3: Ever he's been collecting a paycheck though.
Speaker 4: Good for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm guessing he is.
Speaker 4: And then I've always had I've always had a problem
with aw's lighting and set. I just got the money,
I think maybe, and I'm I'm gonna give them a
little benefit of the doubt. I think it's easier to
get your lighting and your production good all the time
when you know that you're always going to be in
a big arena, their venues changing are so different from
week to week that you're probably not bringing the whole
same type of lighting, rigs and things. You're kind of
at mercy of how these places are and maybe even
using their lighting. So it might not be one hundred
percent his fault, you know, or aw's fault. So I
will give that caveat of playing these you know, bingle
Now I'm being an asshole bingal halls. But you know,
like the smaller like music theaters and things like, you know,
like the third tier, like I know, like here in
the Troit, like for your biggest and biggest shows, you're
gonna be at Ford Field. Like if it's Beyonce or
Taylor Swift, they're gonna be at Ford Field.
Speaker 3: They're at the football stadium.
Speaker 4: You might get an old nostalgic like Guns n' Rosas
are somebody that's gonna do an outdoor concert at Comerica
Park our baseball stadium. Then you got most of the
new popular music and things, and this is where WWE
always comes Little Caesars Arena where the hockey team and
then for like a band that's either on the come
up or just touring, still trying to make money because
you got bills to pay. They're gonna be at the
Masonic Temple or the Fillmore or Fox Theater, these much
smaller venues.
Speaker 3: That's where AW is right now.
Speaker 4: So yeah, and the lighting and the production when I
go see a show at one of those smaller shows, yeah,
it's not gonna compare to when I watch something at
Ford Field or Little Caesars Arena here in Detroit. So yeah,
so it is what it is. So that may be
because those places are made to look a little more
dark and dingy and hardcore.
Speaker 2: So right, the cheaper because they are cheaper, it makes sense.
Speaker 3: It makes me sad.
Speaker 2: We were talking about how we wish that W tow
B pay per views had like the big crazy sets
they used do I think a W also doesn't do
a lot with their sets like that when they do,
even when they do like theme shows, with the exception
of the Beach Break from two weeks ago, where they.
Speaker 4: Did a good job, I didn't like it because I
started out at the beginning of the night.
Speaker 3: Like I was like, I think this looks like shit.
Speaker 4: But it's because any outdoor venue for wrestling looks like
crap until the til the sun goes down, right, I
thought once the sun went down and the lighting took over,
it looked much much better. So that was more of
a circumstance thing, I think than the actual venue. So
you know, I can admit when I was wrong.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, even like at a WrestleMania, like with the
first couple of matches, it's just broad daylight. They almost
have this like they just less than look about them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the worst one I can think of was the
San Francisco one. Right, for Sting's interest to happen in
the daylight and for the Undertaker and bray Wyatt it
to still be light outside, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Great, right, That's just antithetical through the character at that point. Yeah,
that's not great.
Speaker 7: Hey everyone, longtime PW torchcommist Sean radikin here to let
you know I've rebamped and renewed the Raticant Worldwide podcast
for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week,
I break down four or five of the biggest trending
topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing
insight that helps you understand the story better or see
it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there
then I bring on a special guest for the second
half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone
else who works in the business. Other times it's a
guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view out
a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have
included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my
areas of special is the Japan wrestling scene, so I
have to cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch,
his own, Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I
don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on
the news and give a standard hot take. I'll bring
my decades of studying this industry and talking one on
one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show
so you understand not just what's happening, but the context
of why get ahead of the news, get ahead of
the pack with Radking worldwide only at PW Torch vip.
Speaker 2: SO, I think aw's production probably is actually a little better.
There have been less general goofs so yep in WW
of course remains.
Speaker 4: Good as always. It's always gonna be good, all right.
Speaker 2: And then the last thing we had on here is
actually less opinion heated. It's in release to attendance, especially
since we're talking Summer Slam. Last year's was the first
two night Summer Slam. This was the peer were WW
realized that they can make an event two nights and
sell twice as many tickets and make twice as much money.
And that's apparently what we're doing into the foreseeable future.
I don't remember. Here's what I know. I know everybody
is saying that this SummerSlam is not selling. Well, I
don't remember how well they did last year.
Speaker 4: I could probably look that up.
Speaker 3: Actually, I'm gonna guess.
Speaker 4: I think last year they were in the right around
the forty ish thousand for each night.
Speaker 2: Let's see, Okay, well these are going to be the
WW numbers. So the announced numbers are fifty three thousand
the first night and sixty thousand second night.
Speaker 4: Those I would say, take five to seven thousand off
of each of those, because they're counting ticket takers and
sincession stand workers and security so and so and none
of that. How many were actually paid for tickets, how
many were comped, how many you know, the dignitaries and
shit like that, but I know why they're why they're
numbers are down this year. I think it's the consumers
are fet up with the pricing. There's that, and the
product just hasn't been very good. There's nothing that compelling
to make you want to spend you know, three mortgage
payments on a ticket to watch a wrestling event that
you can watch for nothing or next to nothing from
your college.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to argue at that point. Like you said,
the product is not as hot as it was, and
they had this year's tickets are cheap. Here I'll tell
you a quick story. I considered going to this year's
Summer Slam because I A, I just haven't been on
a vacation anywhere in a year. But also, I got
like a random bonus from my company for like eight dollars.
I'm like, yes, I can blow this and not feel
like an idiot.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So I looked at Summer Slam and I'm like, yeah,
I can fly to Minnesota. I've never been in Minnesota.
That'll be fun. And then I looked at tickets and
I was like, okay, wait, so there's two nights I
would go to both nights. Both nights are very expensive
on that, but I have to fly in, I have
to stay at a hotel two nights, I probably have
to rent a car. And before I knew it, I
talked myself out of it. I'm like, I'm just going
to get a new guitar and call this.
Speaker 4: I would be willing to bet that if you priced
it out, you could go with a better ticket. You
could go to London and watch all In cheaper than
you could fly from anywhere in the United States and
do two nights of SummerSlam.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you how I know you're right. I also
looked it all In, but yeah, I looked at the prices.
It was basically the same. But when you factor in
the fact that you would maybe only have to stay
like one night, it was actually, yes, cheaper to go
to all In in London than to go to both
nights in Minnesota.
Speaker 3: And it's London, I mean, it's you know, it's never
been to London.
Speaker 4: Cool. And there's a lot of cool historic you know
Big Ben and you know Buckingham. There's so many things
outside of the wrestling that you have only ever seen
on television, you know right, or read about or seen in.
Speaker 3: A history book or when you were in school, So I'm.
Speaker 2: Right, there's also you're in London, you can hop a
train and go visit any number of awesome near by areas.
I don't have anything bad to say about Minnesota or
any of the people who owned the PW torch that
live in the area, But like.
Speaker 4: He's you're in Minnesota, right.
Speaker 2: Like what what? I'm sure there's awesome stuff to see
in Minnesota. Also, that's probably true, but yeah, I know
it ain't London.
Speaker 4: I'll say this to me, Minnesota is just I've never
been there. But what I'm assuming is this just like Michigan,
just west, we have all we kind of share some
of the same lakes, same kind of weather patterns. It's
you know, Minneapolis might be a little nicer than Detroit,
but you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a relatively
large Midwest city. But yeah, and like I said, I
was cool. I wanted to go there and visit, but
like it's financially it was not a good idea. So
you're right, I think that WW. Now, like we said,
their numbers are probably if we take ten thousand off
their reported numbers, that's still forty and fifty thousand on. Yeah,
they're like twenty something. Yeah, gosh, that is.
Speaker 4: And Minnesota is a wrestling town, Like that's a wrestling state.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of rich wrestling history out of
that area. I mean from the Awa.
Speaker 4: I mean that's where Flair started, That's where Hogan really
cut his teeth, like Jesse Ventura. There, there's so much
history of the wrestling business that came out of that Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Territory as well.
Speaker 4: Like it should have been a slam dunk to do better,
and that they're not.
Speaker 3: That is a they better.
Speaker 4: Be looking in the mirror from a corporate standpoint of Okay,
where do we fuck up? In my opinion, yeah, no,
that's them shooting themselves in the foot.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I think anw the reason their ticket sales are lower
for all in is the novelty of Lemblee.
Speaker 2: Is wore off. I think that's the next year. It
already dropped massively, and now you went back for a
third time. I think that hurts. I think the on
world uncertainty right now with US and Iran and everybody else,
Like how many people want to hop on a plane
right now and fly to England who is an ally
of ours? And they've been more susceptible in the last decade,
even of terroristic shit. It seems like more shit's happened
over there than's happened over here in a lot of ways.
And it's just like there's that too if people people
are afraid to spend money right now because there's economic uncertainty,
Like that's a big ass to get your people from
the United States to fly to England.
Speaker 3: You're limiting where.
Speaker 4: You're gonna be able to get people from to come
and watch your show as well. I said, I thought
they might have been better off if the would it
looked better to have twenty eight thousand people at Wembley
and have to really work your camera angles or switch
it to the O two arena and it'd be standing
room only in England if you had to do it
in Land and just an arena just packed to the gills,
the lighting perfect is going to be loud, Like, which
one's better? Or do it somewhere in the United States again?
Speaker 2: Right? I mean last year it wasn't like a crazy success,
but it was still better than Wembley is doing this year.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll even say this from last year is a
new venue. But they've oversaturated Texas. It seems like every
two weeks they're having a show in Texas, or it
seemed like that for a while, Like they were in
Texas over the last couple of years a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had they had the they had like a
collision residency there for like months at a time.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, so they've done, they've killed, they've saturated that mark,
just like they've been they've done Chicago so many times.
Like there's certain spots that they've That's why you're it's
no different than oh it overstid Wy Wistlemania don't still is.
Speaker 3: Good in Vegas this year?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do understand this because you went to
the same place two years in a row, and it
is expensive. It's an expensive place to get to right now.
Vegas ain't cheap like it was twenty five years ago,
and you're charging ten thousand dollars to get good seats
for two nights, And like that's why WrestleMania. Like I
would have if I was Tony, I would have done
I would have tried to do this all in in
New Orleans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that actually would That would have been a nice
little backhand for WWE for backing.
Speaker 4: Out News That's what I'm saying you. The people there
would have appreciated it. But you know, and I think
what hurts AW two from just an overall attendance, because
if you want to drop, go down even more to
the dynamite like I don't understand because their tickets are
very reasonable comparative to WW. I think they're going to
be here in Detroit, not this Wednesday, but the following Wednesday. Right,
I think they're And a friend of mine went the
last time they're here, and they're coming to the same
venue at the Masonic Temples downtown. He got front row
center camera side, so his his mug was on the
TV the whole show. He bought that ticket the day
of the show last year for two hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: That's another thing. People are not buying tickets right when
they go on sale anymore. They have learned that if
you wait, they will go and sale like they put
whim the tickets to all In on a pretty deep
discount lately. And now they're over thirty thousand for it,
but when it was twenty for so long.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now to me, I think they're the This
is my opinion, the reason their tendance hurts too, or
why they're not growing as I think that they should be,
because they do put on an overall very good product
most of the time. Not always my cup of tea,
but you know, I can see it hits more people's
things that they like than maybe mine. But I still
watch every Wednesday, I watch her. I buy a lot
of the pay per views. Now, they got to earn
my money, but I think they need to on their
week to week they need to cut down on the
blood a little bit and the over save that for
your pay per views, right, make your TV a little
more family friendly to where you know you're gonna get
those families. And I don't think Tony really cares about
it if you get kids or not. He wants just
the hardcore. He wants people that like what he likes, right.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: And I guess if you're that rich and you don't care,
if you're not actually making money on it.
Speaker 3: And it's just a then it's okay.
Speaker 4: I look at it from a standpoint of I want
Tony to turn this business like because he's.
Speaker 3: Not rich, his daddy's rich.
Speaker 4: But you could take this and make your own richness,
Like you could become a billionaire if you did it
right on your own, without your dad's money, and not
as much as anything else. So it's like, try to
make money, try to appeal, don't don't sell out, but
you could still stay true to yourself while also broadening
your appeal to more people. That's all I'm saying. That's
what Zach earlier, when we were talking to Zach, He's like,
and how would you do that? And you told him
listen to the sh That's what. And I don't think
save those long matches.
Speaker 3: For the pay per views.
Speaker 2: You're getting those either way on the pay per view,
you may as well make them feel more special.
Speaker 3: Yeah if I And yeah, I don't want to.
Speaker 4: When I'm watching, I don't want a five segment match
that takes forty minutes, especially if it's two people that
I don't really care about, and it's taking up, you know,
a quarter or more of your show. You're losing my
Like it might still be on my TV, but you're
losing my eyeballs. At some point during that, I'm gonna
get up and go do something else because I'm like, well,
I know this isn't ending anytime soon, and I'm just
gonna miss a bunch of flippity floppity, high spots and
near falls. I know that I just need to keep
poking in and keep an eye on the time. Okay,
now I'm getting close to it should be ending. Let's
see how this ends.
Speaker 1: iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native
podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial
free versions of our free shows. By searching PW Torch
in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal grade logo that
says PW Torch VIP on it. Click on that, there's
some free samples of VIP shows and you can unlock
the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial
free versions of the free shows, by searching PW Torch
in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PW Torch VIP
logo and then activate your three day free trial and
after that you can become a VIP member using your
Apple account.
Speaker 2: It's that easy.
Speaker 1: Enjoy a streamline listening experience to our free shows and
unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post pay per
view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, Everything with Rich
and Wade, the Fix that I host with Todd Martin
and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PW
Torch in your Apple podcast app.
Speaker 2: Right, and then aw never makes it seem like the
actual result matters. They almost never emphasize it, and it's
half the time it doesn't matter who wins. That is
the collision formula.
Speaker 4: But at least you get real finishes. I think that's
sure to what's hurting WWE is you get convoluted non finishes,
interference finishes, not just on TV, but they do that
at their pay per views or pls as well, which
I think is alienating people too, is like why should
I come and spend this money for two nights at
SummerSlam when I can almost bet the one of the
main three matches that I'm there to see is going
to end up with some sort of Shenanigan's ass finish, Right.
Speaker 2: And sometimes you know it's coming, so you're watching the match,
but you don't buy into anything until you know so
and so interferes or such and such.
Speaker 4: Goes mostly like with a Roman match, like you know
damn well that at some point you're going to see
Jimmy or Jay or Jacob during that.
Speaker 2: Match, Right, Yeah, The bloodline storyline.
Speaker 4: Great.
Speaker 2: Yes, was an amazing run. Yes was every Roman main
event like the same thing and not very exciting.
Speaker 4: Absolutely yep at least, and then I can already almost
guarantee the Cody Punk match.
Speaker 3: Sammy's gonna yeah, here's the thing show up at some point.
Speaker 2: If that match was on a e W, you wouldn't
even you would almost be certain there would be doterferirit.
You would get a straight match with a straight finish here.
I know there's a chance of that happening, but I
will not be surprised if there's like three reddings.
Speaker 4: I think that I'll make a prediction now, and this
is gonna be for parportuity on on this, it's gonna
be Sammy, and that's gonna be the return of Ko
and they're gonna come back. They're gonna schmas finish that,
and I think that you see some sort of a
faction with Kevin Owens, Sammy, possibly Johnny Gargano, and we're
gonna get a non finish.
Speaker 2: I love Koe, He's one of my favorite performers period.
I will still if that match ends that way.
Speaker 4: I mean too, I'll be happy to see him back,
but pissed off if that's how they did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't I don't mind that, although
I'll put it on the record hopefully it doesn't age well.
I'm concerned. You're probably exactly right.
Speaker 4: And the thing is is you could still do that
without interfering with the finish. You just have the finish
happen and you have Sammy and Ko come out and
attack them both after, especially if you're gonna have it
stay face face, which there was little C's planned last
night that that might not be in the cards that
it stays face faced, but Cody and Punk, But yeah,
you just have them have the match and then you
have all the bullshit gaga after the finish. Let's see
who the best of these two are. Then let them
come in and do their bullshit and start making, you know,
building to the next thing without messing up the match.
Speaker 2: But if you mess up the finish, nobody has to lose.
Nobody ever has to lose. In ww ever, I'll they care.
Speaker 3: About T ball?
Speaker 4: Is this t ball? Because I know this. I coached
T ball many years ago. You know, my son just
turned thirty one. I coached his first key ball team
when he was four, and I remember when I went
and picked up the equipment and everything, and they go,
we don't keep score here, it's I go, you don't
keep score? I do, I said, because I'm going to
teach these kids about winning, but I'm also going to
teach them how to lose. You're not doing them a
favor by saying everybody's the same and if you if
nobody ever wins or loses, then what the hell are you?
Speaker 3: Why are we even watching?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a concern about SummerSlam. Although we were
talking about.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, oh well, all these things are why I
think that less people are coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to argue with that, and butt.
Speaker 3: By a thousand cuts.
Speaker 2: It is, and we know that there's also like extenuating circumstances.
The economy, travel and everything.
Speaker 4: Is also problems.
Speaker 2: But it's problems both companies are chilling with ye.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't want to leave the country.
Speaker 2: Right and at times I don't want to be in
the country either. It's a real weird space too. Trump
hit again, so again audio issues will happen. So I
think as far as worse or better is concerned, it
is objective SummerSlam is doing worse. It is doing worse.
But the actually only did like twenty nine thousand last
year and they're at thirty thousand this year forro In,
So yeah, I mean doing better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a push. It's a push right at.
Speaker 3: The same you know.
Speaker 4: And I firmly believe that if they were at a
different venue that they probably would have sold even a
little bit better.
Speaker 2: I could see that.
Speaker 4: Aw I think that that's hurting them. I think that's
the number one factor. Is it being out of the
country and the third time it's the same place in
four years.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's the main.
Speaker 4: Factors, because I think overall the product, like the U
from a it's not I don't think it's a week
to week programming of why the pay per view because
they normally dropped very very well at all their pay
per views, which is really really crazy, like that you
are only getting fifteen hundred people for a dynamite and
then I'll get eleven thousand for the paper you when
technically you're getting probably better value for your money at
a dynamite.
Speaker 2: Right, there's gonna be great.
Speaker 4: Get him, just as good quality matches at a dynamite
is what you get on pay per view.
Speaker 3: So I just that's if I could put my finger.
Speaker 4: I'm sure if Tony could put his finger on, what's
not translating from we sell our pay per views really well?
Speaker 3: Why can't I.
Speaker 4: Get people to come to my weekly television? If he
could figure that out? But I guess I'm not smart
enough because I don't know. Because that that's unexplainable to me.
Because their tickets are so affordable compared to the alterna.
They're doing everything right as an alternative, but it's not
what I know what it is that doesn't grab it
for me. It's just it's not my favorite style of
wrestling product. But I still enjoy it. I still watch it,
but I'm not going to shell out my money to
go see it in.
Speaker 2: Person, right, And I can't put my finger on either.
If they're near me for a pay per view or
a dynamite, I will just go. It's it's cheap enough
that it's not like a strong I have to think
about it thing. It's like twenty five bucks or fifty
bucks whatever, right, not a big deal. So I can't
explain why other people choose not to go, because it
is crazy there low numbers they do in major.
Speaker 4: Markets at times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy, but all right, Well.
Speaker 2: If we want to move towards wrapping the show up,
I think we can just kind of an overarching is
wwe compared to last year this time as a whole?
Are they doing worse or better? Adam, I'm curious how
you feel about just on the whole, I mean, we
did the.
Speaker 3: I think they're worse. I think they're worse.
Speaker 2: I think they are too. They are on a little
bit of a downswing, yep, for sure. Yeah. And then
if we do the same thing for ae W from
say just all in last year to how we're heading
towards all end this year, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 4: I'll give them a I'm going to give them a
slight better which might surprise you. And I'll say this,
I think it would have been a more enthusiastic.
Speaker 3: The last two and a half.
Speaker 4: Months hurt their momentum a little bit because for me,
some of the decisions in the booking have been headscratched,
Like the whole Derby. You were on such a role
with MJF Like he was compelling week to week like
and the Derby thing just kind of like was weird
to me to stop that momentum just to give it
back to him a few weeks later that didn't just
have him lose it again to Kenny. Like that part's
taking me where I'm a little bit more down on
the product right now, But I think overall they've been
on an upswing, and I'll say they're better going into
their big event than what WW is.
Speaker 2: I have to agree because last year about this time,
we were in the death writer's storyline that had been
going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Atlantics.
Speaker 2: We're definitely in a better place I think for AW
and yeah, well, how do you feel about wrestling as
a whole, Adam? Just to bring it all the way
to the top.
Speaker 4: Of course, it's worse than it was last year. I
think it's it's worse for me, but there are glimmers
of hope in both companies that I think that it
can go back on an upswing with better management and booking.
I will never blame the talent. The talent worked their
ass off there. You can only do what they can
do with what they're giving.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think that pretty much wraps up the
show for today. I agree with that him. I am
like less interested in wrestling in general at this moment,
but it's so close, like one thing could happen and
it could just spark a fire and I could just
be like way into it again. So here's hoping for that.
I would like to thank Adam for joining me for
this episode of Worse or Better.
Speaker 3: Adam, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: Josh, I really appreciate the opportunity, and thank you to
everybody that's gonna listen and keep listening to Josh give
it a thumbs up and all that stuff, and just
keep supporting the torch. Keep stay vip and I'll hear
you all die on the road. Thanks Josh.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Otherwise, like Adam said, go vip that's pwshorts
dot com slash go vip or I think there's a
va you know what, Just go to there that takes
you to the thing. And hopefully Stephanie will be back
next week. She has assured me she would, and we'll
go back to our aw pay per view model conversation,
which is actually related to what we talk that's actually
kind of a middle point for the last episode. In
the next episode. So I want to thank Adam again
and I want to tell everybody help thanks for listening.
And have a good one and at least half of
us will talk to you next week.
Speaker 3: Bye, everybody.
Speaker 1: Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our
show's commercial free a nice streamline listening experience. Pw torch
dot com slash go vip for full details on a
commercial free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership,
you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups
of shows by theme, and also unlock nearly four decades
of archives and access our ad free website with VP
exclusive content. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. Your
time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we
offer VIP membership. Pw torch dot com slash go vip.
You can participate in the Waydkeller prog Wrestling podcast by
emailing your question or topic to Weadkeller Podcast at gmail
dot com. You can also participate in the way Keller
post shows by emailing weadkellerpost show at gmail dot com
during or write after Raw Dynamite or Smackdoone. Let your
voice let your opinions be heard on our shows via email.
Weightkeller Podcast at gmail dot com. For the flagship and
Weadkellerpost show at gmail dot com. For our post shows,
it's next level coverage that you come to expect from
the PW Torch brand. No AI, no rookie perspectives, no
unfounded rumors, no clickbait, no deceptive headlines, just high quality writing,
breaking news and fascinating flashbacks every day at pw torch
dot com. Pull yourself away from the vacuous social media
experience that I know many of you regret once you
get lost in it for minutes, if not hours at
a time, and settle in for high quality PW Torch
branded wrestling coverage. Admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when
he co hosts with me on the Weadkeller post shows.
Well now you can listen to him every week on
The Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to
tell you more.
Speaker 5: Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with
the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's
comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE,
for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered.
The Nicky's Club where the wrestling feels like the coolest
club in town.
Speaker 1: Nick Barbatty wants to be part of your pro wrestling
life every week, so why not let him go VIP.
Pw torch dot com slash go vip for full details
on signing up. We're compatible with Patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
and just about any other iOS or Android app out there.
You also stream directly from our ad free VIP website,
the Nicky's Club waiting for you every week at pw
Torch vip. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial
free versions of all of your favorite wede color p
podc in PW torch daily casts on Spotify. Just go
to patreon dot com search pw Torch and subscribe to
a VIP membership tier. You get a seven day free
trial by the way to kick the tires a bit
and see if you like the service, and then sync
it with Spotify and you can listen to commercial free
versions of our free shows like the Waykeller post shows,
the Weykeller Podcast Flagship, our Flashbacks and also the pw
Torch Daily cast lineup. Again, all commercial free and nice
streamline listening experience. But with third tier membership you can
also unlock all the VIP podcasts including Everything with Rich
and Wade, to Fix with Todd Martin that I host
with Todd every week, The Wadkeller news bulletins, post pay
per view roundtables, and an array of other VIP exclusive
podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup.
Go to Patreon and search pw Torch and subscribe and
sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem.
Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven
day free trial. If you're listening to us on the
Apple podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that
allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment
to give us a five star rating. It really helps
us in the algorithm and helps them know that you
recommend us to others. Just look for a place to
rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you're listening to our shows, and please click that five
star rating, and of course, thank you so much for listening.
A pwe Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add
free access to these shows and a ton of other
VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly
newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with
streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows
from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with
wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast
library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now
approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive into
our post pay per view roundtables are covered just some
of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form
interviews and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
PW torch dot com slash go vip. We have a
streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
In one or two minutes from right now, you can
be a VIP member and diving into our library. PW
Torch dot com slash go vip