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PW torch dot com slash 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,120 go VIP. 28 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,799 Speaker 2: All right, Welcome to the newest episode of Worse or 29 00:01:39,879 --> 00:01:43,120 Better with Joshua White and Stephanie Chase is a very 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,599 in demand young lady, so she couldn't make it this week, 31 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,640 but I got the next sexiest person I know. I 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,640 brought in known PW Torch member and sometimes post show 33 00:01:53,799 --> 00:01:58,079 appearance guy one Adam Kid Adam, thanks for filling in for. 34 00:01:57,959 --> 00:01:59,239 Speaker 3: Me anytime, my friend. 35 00:01:59,239 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 4: How are you? 36 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:02,359 Speaker 2: I am as well as gonna be on a Sunday. 37 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,640 I am effectively putting off mowing the lawn and it's 38 00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:08,319 I assume, just getting cooler and nicer outside as I 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,800 do so, so it's very exciting for me. 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 4: So procrastination always works. It usually always works out. 41 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you ignore a problem, it always goes away. 42 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,400 I assume I'll go outside the lawn will just be 43 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:20,639 mode imperfect. That's how I expect this in. 44 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,879 Speaker 4: That's how it should be. 45 00:02:22,159 --> 00:02:24,039 Speaker 2: That's how it should be, and I'll keep you guys 46 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:29,159 updated on that next week. This week, however, Adam and 47 00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:31,639 I were going to kind of expand on last week's topics. 48 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,879 Stephaniely I went through basically every Summer Slam ever and 49 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,120 kind of did a holistic worser better on Summer Slam 50 00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:39,960 as a brand. Adam and I gotta kind of follow 51 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,360 that up. We're going to talk about just the last year, 52 00:02:42,719 --> 00:02:45,599 like Summer Slam to Summer Slam, how's wrestling doing. It 53 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,719 was going to be WW specific, but Adam didn't want 54 00:02:47,719 --> 00:02:49,919 to leave out the sickos, so we thought we should 55 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,240 cover how ADEW is kind of doing from all in 56 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:54,840 to all in. I believe that he really just has 57 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,439 some things he wants to say about ADW and he 58 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,240 figured this is a good way to fit those and 59 00:02:59,439 --> 00:03:02,400 either way it'll make for good conversation. So we're gonna 60 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,159 break this down just kind of into like wrestling topics, 61 00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:07,120 and we're gonna kind of determine how each of those 62 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:09,599 are doing over the last year. They're probably going to 63 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,199 be either worse or better or maybe in the middle. 64 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,960 In the middle is possible. It happens. Sometimes things don't change. 65 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,039 Speaker 4: That's true, all right, Adam. 66 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,759 Speaker 2: So we're gonna start off with booking, like how's booking 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,560 doing over the last year. We should note that booking 68 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,919 and matchmaking are actually separate concepts, But I think one 69 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,879 interesting way to look at it is to look at 70 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,240 the cards for SummerSlam last year and the card this 71 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,280 year for Summer Slam. So last year the big matches 72 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,159 were Cody Rhoads and John Cena on Night two and 73 00:03:41,199 --> 00:03:43,960 then see Him Punk and Gunther on Night one. This 74 00:03:44,039 --> 00:03:48,159 is also where Seth miraculously Rules of the Century isn't 75 00:03:48,199 --> 00:03:50,520 injured and catches in money in the Bank on Punk 76 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,479 Yes Yes, and Roman Reigns and jay Uzho beat bron 77 00:03:54,479 --> 00:03:56,719 Breaker and Bronson Reid in a tag match. So the 78 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,319 undercard was less impressive than the main matches for sure. 79 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,560 This year's main matches, though, I think we can agree 80 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,879 there are three big ones. Those are CM Punk and 81 00:04:07,919 --> 00:04:11,479 Cody Rhodes, Roman Reigns and Rowing. And even though this 82 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,560 one is not for a title, maybe the biggest is 83 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,839 Oba Femmy and Brock Lesner, Helena Cell. Those are your 84 00:04:16,879 --> 00:04:18,920 big matches on this year's Somerside. 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, that will definitely be the biggest spectacle. I think 86 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:22,680 of the three. 87 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: Will be the Pallana Cell with Oba and uh Brock. 88 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 4: I think you know it's gonna be ten minutes of carnage, 89 00:04:30,759 --> 00:04:33,399 probably ten or less, that's my call on that. 90 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe because of the Cell, I think we might 91 00:04:36,199 --> 00:04:38,639 stretch it out. But yeah, it's not going twenty and 92 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,279 it's gonna be tight, and it's gonna be hard hitting, 93 00:04:41,319 --> 00:04:44,720 and it's the match I'm most anticipating for the actual match, 94 00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:46,639 even though I think we have a pretty good idea. 95 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:47,399 Who's gonna win that one? 96 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,959 Speaker 4: Yeah for sure? So that cards nah, yeah, Yeah. 97 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 3: The problem with it is I've seen I've seen Brock 98 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,040 Oba twice now twice. 99 00:04:56,399 --> 00:04:56,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 100 00:04:56,959 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 4: Now, granted this is a blowoff Helena Cell, big stipulation, 101 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:03,600 and it's a little more novelty than the other matches, 102 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:07,439 So that's at least the up the stakes. From that standpoint. 103 00:05:07,519 --> 00:05:11,199 We've seen Seth and Roman how many times. 104 00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:15,399 Speaker 2: Many many many. Theoretically Seth always wins, but we also 105 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,240 if you look at history, you know that's not even true. 106 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 4: So No, that's a wrestling lie, kind of like a 107 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,959 Cody lie. And then I am a little bit intrigued 108 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,639 by punkin Cody just because that is at least a 109 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:29,519 fresh matchup. 110 00:05:29,759 --> 00:05:33,319 Speaker 2: Right, Neither star is even remotely fresh. We're talking to 111 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,199 forty year old dudes one fifty, both of them in 112 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,040 the main events for the last couple of years. But yeah, 113 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,560 I still agree that it's the fresh matchup of seam 114 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,199 Punk and Cody Road. So this is my second most 115 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,240 anticipated match this year. But what do you think? You 116 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,199 think this year is looking better or worse than last 117 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:50,959 year as far as the card is concerned. 118 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 4: It's kind of a push a little bit. You had 119 00:05:54,759 --> 00:05:57,560 the novelty last year, the scene of Turned Face the 120 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,040 night before and came back to the Goods and you know, 121 00:06:01,439 --> 00:06:03,600 I'm gonna give you my best. You know, it was 122 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:07,279 the two most nauseating characters and wrestling in the last 123 00:06:07,319 --> 00:06:10,399 ten years going against each other. So I'll give a 124 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,079 slight I'm gonna give a slight edge to this year 125 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:18,680 because of Olba and Brock, but I'm gonna say the 126 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,120 build has been not good. 127 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's that's kind of what we're talking about. So, 128 00:06:22,759 --> 00:06:25,639 like we said, booking not the same as making matches, 129 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,920 despite what Tony Kahn will probably tell you. Right, So 130 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,560 booking was one of the metrics we wanted to measure 131 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,000 how we've been doing the last year in general. So 132 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,120 I would agree with you. The stories leading to this 133 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,560 have been mostly bad. I would say booking wise, we 134 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,399 are definitely doing worse over this last year building into 135 00:06:43,399 --> 00:06:44,360 this Summer Slam than we. 136 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,639 Speaker 4: Were last year. Would agree, And I think both companies 137 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,560 right now, and I'll touch on it when we get 138 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,519 to the aw part of all ins booking. For my 139 00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:59,639 personal taste, both the messed up two matches that would 140 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,959 have been better left alone, which is I would have 141 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,000 much rather seen Roman versus Oba instead of Seth. You 142 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,360 could have done the Brock thing. Any other could have 143 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:11,560 done that. As a Survivor series, you could have done 144 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,040 that at Roald Rumbell. There was other places that you 145 00:07:14,079 --> 00:07:18,199 could have done that match. And I personally me Adam 146 00:07:18,279 --> 00:07:22,879 Kidd would have much rather seen MJF versus Will Osprey. 147 00:07:23,279 --> 00:07:25,720 And you know, I get the whole passing the torch 148 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:29,480 and that, but once again we've seen Kenny and Will 149 00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:34,720 wrestle in AW. I mean, it's totally different, the stakes 150 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,120 are different now Will was more of a heel then 151 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,079 Now they're both kind of on the good side and 152 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,439 all that. But I just to me who's and I'll 153 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,319 probably get pushed. The bigger star is MJF. And he 154 00:07:47,399 --> 00:07:50,319 may be the best heel in wrestling right now. I 155 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,759 think he's the best overall performer in the business. You 156 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,959 take it all from look his promo, sticking to his character, 157 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:03,720 his in rings. You know he can multiple styles. He's 158 00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:08,600 I feel vastly underrated as an entering performer, but that's 159 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:11,680 also because he doesn't wrestle all the time. He's very 160 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:15,600 much more Roddy Piper than he is like a Brett 161 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,720 Hart who was always wrestling as a champion. Like But yeah, 162 00:08:19,759 --> 00:08:22,959 I just because I because I'm intrigued by the Kenny 163 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,720 Will story. But I think you could have told that 164 00:08:25,879 --> 00:08:30,399 story better after Will wins from MJF, and you could 165 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:34,159 have built the next six to twelve months of television 166 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,399 and pay per views around Kenny and Will getting back 167 00:08:38,399 --> 00:08:42,080 to each other. That's just my opinion for me, I 168 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,200 would have much rather seen that match, and I know 169 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,240 I would have rather seen Oba Roman and I want 170 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:48,600 Oba to destroy. 171 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: Him absolutely and now I understand that they're probably putting 172 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,840 that off for WrestleMania. So WrestleMania, I think is bigger show, 173 00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:58,320 bigger platform, theoretically a bigger rise for Oba. But what 174 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:00,600 they do with him in the meantime matters rematch with 175 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,399 Brock not bad. But I think winning King of the 176 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,279 Ring and then a baby face saying no, I don't 177 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:07,960 want a title match. That's not a big deal. I'd 178 00:09:08,039 --> 00:09:11,080 rather beat up this guy. That is a break not 179 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,320 They got to keep Oba hot in the meantime. If 180 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:14,279 they're gonna push this all. 181 00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 4: The way to Mania, yeah, that's book e mail practice. Honestly, 182 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,919 you bait and switched your whole fan base. You're invested 183 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,639 in the King of the Ring of whoever wins this 184 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,879 is gonna be the in the main event of SummerSlam 185 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,840 and going for a title and then literally a week later, 186 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:36,279 it's like, nah, because he kicked me in the balls, 187 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:41,159 I'm fuck being champion. I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna just 188 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,200 I want to fight this guy in a grudge match. 189 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,159 I'm just like that's that's shortsighted, bad booking. And there's 190 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:50,320 been a lot of hot shotting lately, which has been 191 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:52,279 driving me crazy because there's no reason for it. 192 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: Did you know that you can enjoy commercial free versions 193 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,399 of all of your favorite weight color podcasts and ple 194 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,879 Torch dayly casts on Spotify. Just go to patreon dot 195 00:10:02,919 --> 00:10:07,360 com search pw Torch and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. 196 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:09,080 You get a seven day free trial by the way 197 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:10,679 to kick the tires a bit and see if you 198 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:13,360 like the service, and then sync it with Spotify and 199 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:15,840 you can listen to commercial free versions of our free 200 00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:18,720 shows like the Waykeller post shows, the Waykeller Podcast, Flagship, 201 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:21,200 our flashbacks, and also the pw Torch day the cast 202 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:24,799 lineup again all commercial free and nice streamline listening experience. 203 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:27,360 But with third tier membership you can also unlock all 204 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,200 the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich and Wade, to 205 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:32,279 Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, 206 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,039 the Wadkeller News bulletins, post pay per view roundtables, and 207 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,519 an array of other VIP exclusive podcasts with different hosts 208 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,039 and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon 209 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,799 and search pw Torch and subscribe and sync it up 210 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:50,480 with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works. 211 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,720 Go to Patreon and start your seven day free trial. 212 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we have storylines. Oh this was me. I 213 00:10:58,639 --> 00:11:00,879 put storylines as a separate conser. I think booking and 214 00:11:00,919 --> 00:11:04,639 storylines are intertwined. Yeah, so that's kind of basically what 215 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,759 we're talking about. Anyway, Summer Slam storylines I think are 216 00:11:07,879 --> 00:11:10,440 just generally worse this year. But if you want to 217 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,080 go ahead and move on to AW you already stepped 218 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,799 into a little bit just the card from all in 219 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,480 last year compared to this year. I mean last year, 220 00:11:17,639 --> 00:11:20,919 the big three matches were Hagman and John Moxley for 221 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:21,960 the world title. 222 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:24,279 Speaker 4: Main event, the huge crowning yep, yeah. 223 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 2: And then you had Ocata and Omega for the whatever 224 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,320 the other two trinkets they were fighting for that they 225 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:31,879 put together and then immediately took apart because they can't 226 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:35,200 have less than twelve belts. And you had Tony Storm 227 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,639 and Mercedes it's the big women's match from that one. 228 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,799 I mean, those were the three big matches last year, 229 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,080 and this year it seems like we're pointing towards Obviously, 230 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,320 the only official one in theory is Omega and Osprey, 231 00:11:47,399 --> 00:11:50,200 and even then Kevin Knight could win the title between 232 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,480 now and then he's in the main event of the 233 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,600 Unnecessary Redemption pay per view. Yes, and then you're probably 234 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:59,000 gonna get Willow and Mercedes unless Tekla retains at the 235 00:11:59,039 --> 00:12:01,840 aforementioned paper And I mean, those will be your biggest 236 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,360 two matches, I would say going in this year. So 237 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,039 how do you feel about the card last year compared 238 00:12:07,039 --> 00:12:08,480 to what we're likely getting this year? 239 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,519 Speaker 4: I think I think last year's card is definitely better 240 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,200 than this year's card right now, but it's so early. 241 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,960 They haven't really built out the rest of the card. 242 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,120 I mean, we just talked about two to three matches, 243 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,720 and you know that it's gonna end up being like 244 00:12:23,759 --> 00:12:28,679 a seventeen to eighteen match, twelve hour extravaganza that starts 245 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,639 on Sunday and ends somewhere like after Labor Day. So 246 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,879 there's still a lot because you know, Fletcher's gonna probably 247 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:39,159 have a big match. I would assume you're gonna is 248 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,919 Hangman gonna do something now that he's kind of back. 249 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,159 Speaker 3: I mean, if you don't if. 250 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,639 Speaker 4: You don't watch Collision or listen read Josh's column, then 251 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,279 you wouldn't know that Hangman actually came back a week 252 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,240 ago yesterday, which you know because they didn't mention it 253 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:57,559 on Dynamite. But you'd assume he's gonna be involved, but 254 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,000 they're gonna do something with Swerve, you would. Yeah, I 255 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,679 mean that poor guy's had his legs cut out from 256 00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:08,360 underneath them numerous times, going into all In every time too. 257 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:10,840 It's like, thanks a lot, Tony. Yeah, we keep giving 258 00:13:10,879 --> 00:13:14,799 gold Watch title reings to people instead of pushing what 259 00:13:14,879 --> 00:13:17,360 should be the future of your company. Want to if 260 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:20,360 you want to use the stupid pillars thing, he should 261 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,320 be a pillar now, not Jack Barrier, Sammon Gabara or 262 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:25,279 Darby Allen. 263 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 3: Like, let's put a real talent as your pillars. 264 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 2: Right, oh worse for better? The Pillars of a w 265 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,879 would be an episode I'm writing this down. 266 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, break that down and then Stephanie can't be there. 267 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,639 I'd be more than happy to come and help you 268 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:39,360 with that one too. 269 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,519 Speaker 2: The pillars such as they are now, so yeah, kind 270 00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:47,679 of like we're talking about SummerSlam though, so booking storylines 271 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,559 going into all and like we said, we can't really 272 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,120 make a definitive statement on their card. I thought last 273 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:53,600 year's card was very good though. 274 00:13:53,919 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, yep. And he did a great job last year too. 275 00:13:57,039 --> 00:13:59,840 They built up like for months, you knew that he 276 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:04,440 was going after Moxley and the death Writers for all 277 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,200 and it was, you know, it was the team version 278 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:11,159 of the end of WrestleMania. When Cody finished the story, 279 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,000 you had kind of the Avengers all come out to 280 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,000 kind of keep the baddies out and at the end 281 00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:19,000 of that match, and but it was great, you know, 282 00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:22,360 it was very good. A great crowning. That's a great 283 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,120 crowning moment at your biggest show. You have the babyface 284 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,960 standing tall, the crowning moment to Kathetti, wonderful. I like 285 00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:32,320 a little bit of chaos, as you know, because we've 286 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,200 talked like it would make my heart happy for Will 287 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,840 to lose in Wimbley in front of everybody. Just that's 288 00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,679 just me. We don't always need to send everybody home happy. 289 00:14:43,759 --> 00:14:46,120 And you still probably make some of those people happy 290 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:48,879 because everybody loves Kenny, right, Yeah, I like Kenny. 291 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: It would be at least that would be a shocking 292 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:55,200 ending if nothing else, so worth considering. Although I still 293 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,440 think the chances of that are less than one percent, 294 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,120 slightly over zero. Now, like I said, we said the 295 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,399 card last year is good. The card this year probably 296 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:05,720 won't be as good. But the booking over the last 297 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:08,519 year of AAW leading to all in and the storylines, 298 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:10,519 how do you feel about those? You feel in better 299 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,480 or worse storylines? Booking this time last year. 300 00:15:14,559 --> 00:15:15,519 Speaker 3: It's a mixed bag. 301 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 4: I think that I think he's doing There are some 302 00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:22,399 things that have been pretty compelling and cohesive from a 303 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,559 storyline perspective, but that's just not aw's style of how 304 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,320 they do things. 305 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:29,559 Speaker 3: It's not Tony's style. 306 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,919 Speaker 4: So I've come to like, as much as it drives 307 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,120 me crazy, kind of lower my expectations from They're a 308 00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:40,159 matchmaking company. They're a how many star ratings can this 309 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,399 match get? Whether or not from a storyline perspective if 310 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,679 it makes sense, But it's going to be a banger 311 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:49,519 and that's what there. They are catering to the niche 312 00:15:49,879 --> 00:15:52,799 of the niche audience that they are, which is why 313 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,600 they don't grow. They haven't taken much more market share. 314 00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:58,960 Why they're you know, dynamite, you know it's averaging between 315 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,960 fifteen hundred three thousand people in live attendance each week, 316 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:07,399 is because they're catering. They're super catering to their rabid 317 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,159 fan base, which is great, they're making all them happy, 318 00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:14,279 but you're not bringing in anybody new that way. I know, 319 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,799 for me wrestling wise, the entering, and I know I'm 320 00:16:17,799 --> 00:16:21,240 probably in the minority is it's important, but it's probably 321 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,320 the second or third most important part to me. I 322 00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:28,120 want you to talk me into the building, make me 323 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,399 invest in why I want to see you two fight 324 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,720 each other, and we just don't get enough of that 325 00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:33,799 in AW. 326 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: In my opinion, that's just I. 327 00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:37,519 Speaker 2: Don't think you're in the minority on that. If you 328 00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:41,519 look at the numbers between WW and AAWAAW is almost 329 00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:43,279 one thousand percent of the time going to give you 330 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,480 a very good match, several very good matches mm hmmm. 331 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,039 A lot of wrestling where at WW they will give 332 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,600 you good matches now and again, but you usually going 333 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,799 most of the people there are there for the storyline. 334 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,679 It's kind of like you said, AW is a niche 335 00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:58,440 of a niche is like a nook of a cranny. 336 00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:02,279 Like wrestling in general has very little mainstream appeal, and 337 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,480 then if you take the maximum possible appeal of wrestling 338 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,000 in the mainstream and cut out a tiny corner of that, 339 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,519 the best you can do is probably what AW is 340 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,599 doing now, which is why you got AW fans saying 341 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,319 Aw's the best it's ever been. It's so good, it's 342 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,200 doing great. It's doing maybe as good as it can be. 343 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,319 If this is what it's going to be, this is 344 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,079 maybe the best version of that. But if this is 345 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,440 what it's going to be, it's gonna be this and 346 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:27,240 never anything more into perpetuity and and. 347 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,599 Speaker 4: Then you know what, as a fan, they'll never be 348 00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:34,160 my number one that hits what I like the most, 349 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,440 But I like I appreciate that there they are here 350 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:40,400 because I can scratch both those inches. I get my 351 00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:45,519 good storylines and not right now, I haven't. The storylines 352 00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:48,079 haven't been good in WWE, But you know, I get 353 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,759 the more story driven, soap operaty type of product out 354 00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,440 of the WWE. And I know that I can watch 355 00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:58,240 AW and I'm gonna get the really good entering, hard 356 00:17:58,319 --> 00:18:01,119 hitting action that maybe does always makes sense, but it's 357 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,359 at least entertaining. And you know, so they're they're catering 358 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,880 to a fan like me. I get a little bit 359 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,920 of both, and I can pick and choose when I watch. 360 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,759 Speaker 3: That's why I don't watch collision. 361 00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 4: Because all collision is is good matches that don't really 362 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,960 make much sense. So I do I can skip that, 363 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,960 and I just read your column and I know what's 364 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:18,440 going on. 365 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 2: Right, So you know, last night it was a bunch 366 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,799 of Canadian destroyers and cutters and matches nobody cares about 367 00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:27,480 and won't be mentioned next week on Dynamite. And for 368 00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:30,319 some people that's enough. But it's never going to grow 369 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,920 an audience because the audience that wants that they're there, 370 00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:33,720 that's it. 371 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 4: And they could grow their audience without being unauthentic to 372 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,599 who they are. Small tweaks would fix it. We'll get 373 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:42,839 to that later. I know that's a topic I think 374 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:45,480 that we wrote down for later on as far as 375 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,000 I know, small things that would make a huge difference 376 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,480 to them as from an overall appeal standpoint. 377 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: But right, and I'm sure there are tweaks that wwe 378 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,839 could make that would make them appeal yeah, hardcore audience 379 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,799 or to the there's there's a vast middle ground that 380 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,599 neither company wants to explore. Sometimes it can be kind 381 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,279 of frustrating. 382 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,799 Speaker 4: It's a lot like politics. Sometimes they're ones really far 383 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:11,279 to the right and the other one's really far to 384 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:13,839 the left one. Really, we need somebody that's in the middle, 385 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,240 give me a little bit of all. 386 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 2: Of it right where most people are in the middle 387 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:18,759 in general. 388 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 4: Yep. 389 00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:23,519 Speaker 2: The politics being similar to wrestling is unfortunately all too real. 390 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,680 But this is not a political show. We're not here 391 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,680 to top politics. That would be a horrible show. I 392 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,640 wouldn't want to listen to it and participate in it. 393 00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: But I'm sorry, did I say that out loud? 394 00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 4: I apologize. 395 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:40,599 Speaker 2: These things happen, you know, live audio being what it is. Anyway, 396 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,279 we can move on to the next topic. The next 397 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:45,160 topic we had in mind, whether we're doing worse or better, 398 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,319 was just the top of the card and star power 399 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,599 in general. We'll move back to WWA. So, compared to 400 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,880 last year, moving into this year SummerSlam, ww's top of 401 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:56,519 the card. 402 00:19:56,839 --> 00:19:58,079 Speaker 3: Is exactly the same. 403 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 2: It's almost exactly the same they have But we knew 404 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,559 that was going to happen. He was on retirement tour 405 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,640 this time last year. It is almost exactly the same. 406 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,319 It's Cody Road, Cempunk cefter all ends, the other guy. 407 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:14,240 Who's the other guy? Roman Reigns Holy he's the guy right, Yeah, yeah, 408 00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:17,160 So it's almost exactly the same. 409 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,039 Speaker 1: Admit it, you love Nick Barbatty when he co hosts 410 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:22,839 with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now 411 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,279 you can listen to him every week on The Nickys Club, 412 00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:28,400 a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more. 413 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 5: Hey wrestling fans, It's Nick Barbatty and I'm back with 414 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,079 the Nickys Club, the place where the family of Nicky's 415 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,960 comes together for big laughs and Shark takes on WWE 416 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,039 for WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns. I got you covered, 417 00:20:39,079 --> 00:20:41,359 The Nicky's Club where the wrestling feels like the coolest 418 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:41,960 club in town. 419 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: Nick Barbatty wants to be part of your pro wrestling 420 00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:46,839 life every week, so why not let him go vip 421 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:50,400 PW torch dot com slash go vip for full details 422 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,880 on signing up. We're compatible with Patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 423 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,319 and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. 424 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,079 You also stream directly from our ad free VIP website. 425 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,559 The nickis Club waiting for you every week at PW 426 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:02,720 Torch v ip. 427 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 4: With when and You've had a couple of people that 428 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,480 have gotten there for a cup of coffee. Sammy, Sammy's 429 00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:15,279 main event adjacent but not quite there. Gunther's main event 430 00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,960 adjacent but not in that where he's there every single week. 431 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:23,240 In that conversation, they kind of get there, they'll have 432 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:26,960 a match, they kind of and the and none. You 433 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,799 have the Oba who's that like next crop that he's 434 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:33,279 not there yet, but it's coming and it should come 435 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:37,480 real fast, you hope. But that's one of my biggest 436 00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:41,279 issues right now with both companies is it's just the 437 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,319 same people being recycled in different over and over and 438 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,400 over again at the top. And I think you have 439 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:51,839 some really viable younger talent in both companies that you 440 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,400 should be starting to elevate to that next level. 441 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:57,799 Speaker 2: Right So, like you said, top of the card DMEs 442 00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:01,200 exactly the same. Brock Lessener returned last year, so slam 443 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,400 after her some time away. Like you said, Gunster is 444 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,119 kind of on the cusp. Like last year he was 445 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,279 defending the title, but we pretty much knew he was 446 00:22:07,319 --> 00:22:09,160 going to lose it. To see him punk who is 447 00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:11,920 defending the title this year against Cody And these were 448 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,319 all the same top In fact, brock and Ova, it's 449 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,759 the same exact match for Merestlemania, it's the same people 450 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,720 at the top. Yeah, so it's hard to say it's 451 00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:23,640 worse or better. It's almost exactly the same. Yeah, and 452 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,480 then I mean we can do the same for all 453 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:28,720 In at the top of the card. But it's very similar. 454 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:30,559 I mean, I guess last year we were talking. 455 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 4: I think they've changed a little bit more, some based 456 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,240 on injuries, Like Tony's not there, Tony Storm, So you know, 457 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,400 that's the elevated Tuckla into that spot. And you know, 458 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,920 she's not my cup of tea, but I know a 459 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,920 lot of people like her. 460 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:46,279 Speaker 3: And she's done a good job. 461 00:22:46,319 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 4: Whether you like her stick or not, you watch when 462 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,759 she's on and you listen when she's on commentary. 463 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,519 Speaker 3: You might not. It might not be your thing, but 464 00:22:54,559 --> 00:22:55,599 she grabs your attention. 465 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: It is the thing. It's kind of like it's a 466 00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:02,079 similar thing as what Tony was doing. It's completely different, 467 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,279 but like it's in the same realm. 468 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,279 Speaker 4: Ofudos a little bit, you know, just the delivery is different, 469 00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:11,000 but the content's kind of the same. Yeah. 470 00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 2: So now again, this is the elevation of will Ospray 471 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,960 this year. Last year he was almost made it, but 472 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,680 him and Hangman Hangman went out and ended up winning. 473 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:24,680 Going and this year it's the Osprey show. I think 474 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,400 Omega is at a higher points and it was last Yeah, 475 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,680 because last year he he just came back to face 476 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,440 Okada and then he lost that title. He was out 477 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,839 again for a while. So yeah, I mean Kenny obviously 478 00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:40,799 star power wise Osprey, I mean. 479 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 4: I don't know. 480 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,799 Speaker 2: I think it's a push basically, like it's exactly the same, 481 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,400 but it's about the same quality. 482 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:51,799 Speaker 4: And star power is subjective to as far as like 483 00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:54,400 like if you compare the two companies from a star 484 00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:59,160 power standpoint, the guys in wwe have much more star 485 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,319 power and a but I will say that that's because 486 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,039 from a more eyeballs thing and they're more of a 487 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,799 star driven company. And whereas AW has from the inception 488 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,200 pretty much been an ensemble cast. It's it's not about 489 00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:20,319 one person, it's about the collective roster doing their thing. 490 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: And that's and that's good. 491 00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 4: I mean, it keeps certain things fresh if you're not 492 00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:28,680 always Yeah, I'm trying not to be too critical of 493 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,839 you know, it is what it is like if I 494 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,000 walk down the street and I ask ten people if 495 00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:37,640 they knew who Roman reigns or see them Punk is, 496 00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:40,920 and then I asked them if they knew who will Ospray. 497 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 3: Or Kenny Omega. 498 00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 4: Was I'm going to get way more people that know 499 00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:46,799 who Roman and see them Punk are than that know 500 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,359 who will Ospray and Kenny Omegar. 501 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's not even an opinion thing that you 502 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,720 have to apologize for. That's an absolutely right fact of reality. 503 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 504 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, So top of the card, like I said, AW, 505 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,799 it's different, but like it's them about the same. 506 00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:04,599 Speaker 4: From an entering perspective, aw's top of the card is 507 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,240 much better than WWE's well absolutely straight in ring, although 508 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,480 I mean Roman and Punk had one of the best 509 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,759 matches this year at WrestleMania, so there's also that. So ye, 510 00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,039 and without doing a bunch of flips and stuff or 511 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,519 like doing anything that may or may not kill yourself 512 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,359 doing it. So that made that match even more impressive 513 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,960 to me is that it was just a wrestling match, right. 514 00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: The flips, the Canadian Destroyers, all that stuff is has 515 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,160 its place, but like it's not, it doesn't always improve 516 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,759 a match. In fact, sometimes it takes away from a match. 517 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,279 See last night's episode of Collision or just reported want. 518 00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:43,160 But the next topic we had was and you kind 519 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,880 of alluded to this earlier, the kind of mid card 520 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:49,799 stars in the uh you know, rising young stars that 521 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,359 are kind of on this cusp. So like last year 522 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,039 at SummerSlam, as far as like these middle people that 523 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:59,519 were rising up, there was not a lot going. No, 524 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,559 not at all dominic mysterial beat aj styles. I would 525 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:04,960 say it's the closest thing as Summer Slayer of somebody 526 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,920 move it up the card last year. That's the only 527 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:08,799 one I can think of. 528 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:12,079 Speaker 3: And since then he's kind of stagnant, neated. 529 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 4: They didn't capitalize on what he was doing coming out 530 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,920 of WrestleMania and then SummerSlam last year. Now he's just 531 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,880 kind of in the background, is part of a faction 532 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,440 and the head scratching. 533 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's triple a mega champion. I believe that should 534 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,359 mean something, but I mean on WWE proper that means 535 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,279 basically nothing. 536 00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,559 Speaker 4: It's no different than when you tell me Bandidos the 537 00:26:35,759 --> 00:26:37,200 ROH champion. 538 00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:42,079 Speaker 2: On a w and congratulations, right, and he's going to 539 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,319 go lose for a lower card aw title on pay 540 00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:47,640 per view. He does it every month. 541 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:50,640 Speaker 4: Yep, it's a good match, it'll be It'll be a 542 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,119 great match. 543 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,079 Speaker 2: I'd love it. It's amazing. 544 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 4: He's very very good. 545 00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 2: So that was rising stars last year Summer this year 546 00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:02,400 we have. Now we have Oba Femi, obviously a big 547 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,119 rising star, although again we have noted not everything is 548 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,680 going perfect with him. He is actually he is doing well. 549 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:11,599 His performance his matches, oh, that is very good, but 550 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,079 the booking behind him is not doing him. 551 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,799 Speaker 4: Is anything that's wrong with Olba right now is not 552 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,720 because of Oba? 553 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: Correct, he is doing it. And then we also have 554 00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:23,240 now Trick Williams just doesn't officially have a match. Let's 555 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,440 assume he's going to be on the summer card. And 556 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,480 I don't know what they're doing with Javon right now, 557 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:31,880 but I think Trick and Oba is a better Like 558 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,359 they're moving up the card. They're doing better with young 559 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,559 talent moving upwards this year than they did last year. 560 00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:38,519 Like we said, last year was basically just dumb. 561 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 4: And they're doing more with Melo this year than they 562 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:44,079 did last year because he very well. Maybe who you 563 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,559 see Russell Trick, Oh, yeah, that's kind of going in 564 00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:50,880 that direction, trying to think of who else there's Javan 565 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,880 I think they're kind of starting to see where they're 566 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,519 trying to show like a darker edge to him to 567 00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:58,839 where he might be looking at a heel turned to 568 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,680 beat Penta. I'm thinking he made face Penta SummerSlam for 569 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,160 the intern Continental Championship. 570 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: That's possible. It's been kind of a slow motion whatever 571 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,880 they're doing, they've been doing it very slowly because they 572 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,759 were hinting at that months ago. 573 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 4: And then we got that new young up and comer 574 00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:14,599 Baron Corbin. 575 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:16,319 Speaker 3: You know that, just get back. 576 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,759 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, But to me, it's like, why do we 577 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,880 keep bringing in these retreads in both companies when you 578 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,359 have people that you already have there that if you 579 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,559 put some good creative and give them a chance, could 580 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,759 end up being so much more than a Baron Corbin, 581 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:40,440 which is a low bar like me, and you could 582 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,880 probably be a better Baron Corbin, even though the end 583 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,279 of the days is a sweet ass. 584 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,759 Speaker 2: I like Baron Corbin almost, but what he does. 585 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,119 Speaker 4: But he's a mid card guy. 586 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: You need those guys, and he's good. 587 00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:56,279 Speaker 4: You do it. 588 00:28:56,359 --> 00:28:58,519 Speaker 2: But yeah, he's not coming in to change the game. 589 00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:01,519 Even competing for the US title, which looked like him 590 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,039 maybe a little too much. 591 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's more of a twenty four to seven guy. 592 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: Speaking of great titles. So as far as young stars 593 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,880 this year, I would say we are still actually doing better. 594 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 4: Though, yeah, way better, way better there this time. 595 00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 3: They've actually brought people. 596 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,319 Speaker 4: Up from NXT and done some things with them on 597 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,160 the men's side. 598 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,799 Speaker 3: Now on the women's. 599 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 4: Side, you have Fatal Attraction which there or Fatal Influence 600 00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,599 whatever they call themselves, with JC Jane and Filing or 601 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,680 whatever like. So they brought them up and they've made 602 00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:39,720 them a centerpiece kind of of the women's division on SmackDown. 603 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:43,200 They're involved in multiple different you know, tentacles. But then 604 00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:47,200 you brought up Blake Monroe and what the what the 605 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,119 hell has she done besides some backstage stuff and then 606 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,559 you know, beating up Candice Larray or whatever the hell 607 00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:56,839 the other day, which so I mean, as good a 608 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,440 job as they've done with elevating some of the guys, 609 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,720 the guy from NXT, i'd say they're worse. Do you 610 00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:05,440 have not done a good job with the female channel? 611 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,920 Even Soul Ruka? Do you put the Intercontinental title on 612 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,279 her and that she hasn't done nothing? Yeah, that's a 613 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,480 flabbergasting thing to me. Yeah, it's triple HS booked the 614 00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:19,160 women's divisions, So well in Black and Gold NXT and 615 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,440 now he on the main roster. It's like Vince has 616 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:23,599 taken over his body. 617 00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: Well, don't forget last year at SummerSlam, we did have 618 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:31,759 young up and comer Lera losing Becky Lynch for the 619 00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:34,440 Intercontinental title, and she's at least got something going on now. 620 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, she looked that last night. She's had a few 621 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,680 I don't know if you've seen did you watch that? 622 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,559 A nice main event? 623 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 2: I just watched the clip. I'm just not gonna watch it. 624 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,119 Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, I mean, you didn't really miss much. 625 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,720 But she she added a few new wrinkles to her 626 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,640 offense to make it a little more brutal, a little 627 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,480 more heelish, which I appreciated, like not playing like I 628 00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:57,200 think that when you turn heel it's important that you 629 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,240 don't do as much as the flippy, like don't do 630 00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:03,039 the flashy stuff that gets you over as a babyface 631 00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:05,839 switch and be a little more brutal, a little more underhanded. 632 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,160 So I that was I appreciated that last night. The 633 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,400 rest of the show is kind of just you know, 634 00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:12,319 dog shit. 635 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 2: But on a similar note, I don't have a lot 636 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,400 of great things about Kevin Knight, but when he turned 637 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,359 heeled this last couple of months, like, he doesn't do 638 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,359 the fly flippy, splashy stuff. His finisher is basically. 639 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: A rock a bottom at this point yep. 640 00:31:23,799 --> 00:31:25,519 Speaker 2: So I mean I think that's good, and that kind 641 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,680 of transitions us into how ae W is doing with 642 00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:31,599 their young stars compared to say, last year. All in 643 00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:35,240 last year featured I mean in the main spots, no 644 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,039 real young rising stars. I mean it was Ocada, Omega, 645 00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,039 it was Hangman and Box. I mean those are established. 646 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:44,440 I mean Hangman is young, but you know he's established. 647 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 4: So he's been around for so long. I mean, yeah, 648 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,240 he's been there from the beginning. Plus if you were 649 00:31:50,319 --> 00:31:52,519 a fan of the Elite and all that, I mean 650 00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:56,680 you knew of him for five years before AW started. 651 00:31:56,759 --> 00:31:59,359 So yeah, he's still young. You got in the game early, 652 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,400 which is a good thing. You know, he is still young. 653 00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:05,960 That's how it should be. You you Bill, You get 654 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160 that young guy that you know, hey, this guy's got something, 655 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,880 and you push him and you establish him, and then 656 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,440 you have him at the top of your card or 657 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,759 near the top of your card if you all things 658 00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:19,480 go right for a decade or more. 659 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,839 Speaker 3: That's how it should be, or. 660 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: You have him lose a stipulation where he can't even 661 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,160 challenge for the main title anymore and he's just aimlessly 662 00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,799 challenging for the cards. That's another option. 663 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:33,799 Speaker 3: That is an option. Don't get me started. 664 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,119 Speaker 4: Tony Kahn's contribution what I think his only contribution to 665 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,359 wrestling should be, which is just write checks and let 666 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,720 other people handle the rest of the stuff, because ugh, 667 00:32:46,079 --> 00:32:47,759 it makes me, drives me crazy. 668 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,519 Speaker 1: But before pushing play on the weight Keller Pro Wrestling 669 00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:54,880 post shows, check out PW torch dot com and our 670 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,079 TV review section and skim through a full rundown of 671 00:32:58,119 --> 00:32:59,799 the TV show if you didn't see it. That's your 672 00:32:59,799 --> 00:33:02,319 way to get an overview of what happened before you 673 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,960 dive into our in depth analysis of the key happenings 674 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,599 on the show. That's PW torch dot com. You're home 675 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,039 for live TV coverage every Monday, Wednesday and Friday with 676 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:14,200 my TV reports, and also check out our NXT and 677 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,079 Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays, our Collision reports on 678 00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:18,920 Saturday nights, and of course our live pay per view 679 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,880 and Ple coverage on weekends, all waiting for you at 680 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,799 PW torch dot Com. 681 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're working a way around that stipulation, 682 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,920 but it's still dumb. So back to the actual topic, 683 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,559 young rising talents in aew Like we said, wasn't a 684 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:36,680 lot going on around all in last year. I mean 685 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:39,799 this year, Like I think I already noted, Kevin Knight 686 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,759 is kind of the young guy who they're moving up. 687 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:45,960 I mean he's challenging Omega for the title next week. 688 00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,599 Speaker 4: That's a big That's yeah, that's pretty cool. That's a from. 689 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,799 Speaker 3: When he came in. You if you were to ask. 690 00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:54,559 Speaker 4: Me when he came in and debuted, well, in a 691 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,880 year's time, is he going to be wrestling on a 692 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,960 pay per view for the heavyweight Championship? 693 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 3: I told you hell no, No. 694 00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:04,599 Speaker 2: I would have said title is best case Mario for him. 695 00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 4: Yep, yep, for sure. So I mean he's done, he's 696 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,880 done well with what they've given him, and I give 697 00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:14,280 I will give Tony credit of they've pushed him. Hey, 698 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,239 let's see what we got with this guy. So baby steps, 699 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,440 we're moving in the right direction at least. I mean 700 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,519 there's this one kid though that I wish that they 701 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:25,599 would give a good, like good long look at her 702 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,519 name's Athena She you know, I know a lot of 703 00:34:29,519 --> 00:34:32,039 people probably haven't heard of her. But I think that 704 00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,440 if they brought her to the main, to the up 705 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,760 to main aw proper, she might take the world by storm, 706 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,119 if he would just you know, No, maybe it's just me. 707 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:41,920 I see something in her. I think she could be 708 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,480 pretty good. 709 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 2: She's been pretty good in Ring of Honor for or 710 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,280 so it's a dead thing, but they have to carry 711 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,199 them sometimes. Yeah, okay, so yeah, I don't even know 712 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,119 if she I want to check how old she is real, 713 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,880 she's only thirty seven. Yeah, she's been around forever and 714 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,920 she has been wasted for three or four years in 715 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,760 both companies. 716 00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:09,159 Speaker 4: She was raised in WWE before they released her. I 717 00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:13,880 don't right, and then well you know why the ways 718 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,239 her in WW because Vince Vince was still in control 719 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,239 once she came up, and then he cut her and 720 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,760 for probably numerous reasons, because Vince is a flaming piece 721 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,159 of shit. But that but I mean, but they have 722 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,559 done a good job here recently with the Maya World 723 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,519 of young talent. 724 00:35:30,599 --> 00:35:32,039 Speaker 2: They've made the best out of. 725 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, because I firmly expected after she lost to Mercedes 726 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,320 for her to disappear for you know, a year, and 727 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,280 nobody know what happened to her. So I mean, at 728 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,719 least she's still being showing on TV. She has there's 729 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,960 something there. I think she has some talent. And then 730 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,039 there's a lot of weird stuff like guys that have 731 00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:51,719 been around that were still around last year but they're 732 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,800 kind of still just meddling right where they were at 733 00:35:55,039 --> 00:36:03,000 takeshta Kyle Fletcher, like there's not elevated. They're such great 734 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,480 talents and they're not giving them enough. There's too much 735 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,079 like taqush To loses way too much in my opinion, 736 00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:14,880 for as talented as he is, and the people love him, 737 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,199 especially now that he's back as a babyface, like he's 738 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,360 just he's just so likable of a character. As likable 739 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,400 as he is, then Kyle Fletcher should be your next 740 00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:27,519 the guy that should be coming up right behind them. 741 00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:31,039 JF is your You're dastardly heeled because he does it. 742 00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:33,559 He makes you want to punch him in the face, 743 00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:39,760 and that means he's doing his job. Like he's a despicable, cocky, 744 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,079 arrogant heel that you want to hate, but you have 745 00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:44,760 to respect his game. 746 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:46,159 Speaker 3: Same as MJF. 747 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 4: As much as you hate him and he's all I'd 748 00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,360 like to smack him up, But then you got games, 749 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,039 got a recognize game because when he gets between the ropes, 750 00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:56,280 he can bring it. 751 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 3: Now that they'll both cheat and be underhanded. 752 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,519 Speaker 4: To win, but I that is a admirable trait sometimes 753 00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:04,639 is you know, you're you're not playing to lose, you're 754 00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:07,519 playing to win, You're trying your you know, and they're 755 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:09,719 heel they're not supposed to be honorable. 756 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,119 Speaker 2: Right, And Fletcher beat Takesta Klean in their last match, 757 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,480 like the beach break or whatever, and so yeah, we 758 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,559 were talking about young talents that should be moving up. 759 00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:20,599 You're right, Takeshta and Fletcher have kind of they're at 760 00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:22,840 the same level they were this time last year. MJF 761 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,840 is a very young talent. He's younger both well he's 762 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,000 actually a little Fletcher, but he's very young. But he's 763 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,360 not like a rising young star. He's established. Even though 764 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,159 he's extraordinarily young. 765 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,079 Speaker 4: He is their star. To me, he is he is 766 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:37,800 heading shoulders. From a star power standpoint, He's it. That's 767 00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,719 if I had if I'm Tony Kain, if I'm aw 768 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,719 any media that needs to be done anything that I'm 769 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,920 promoting something or I have a commercial that I'm going 770 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,800 to be doing. MJF is who I want as the 771 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,719 face of my company in the public, because he is it. 772 00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:58,760 I don't know, maybe I'm fanboying too much for him, 773 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,639 but you know, no, great, and I think he's been 774 00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:05,719 so much better since he came back. It's almost like 775 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,400 somebody's given him a little bit of filter and a 776 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,800 little bit of the annoyances that he had from his 777 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,719 past reign. He's much more serious, a lot less of 778 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,719 the goofy because sometimes you get a little bit too 779 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,679 comedic with his helish shit. 780 00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 3: He just he's been so good this year, just excellent and. 781 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 2: Right, not a lot of low hanging fruit stuff and 782 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,159 not a lot of the dumb comedy. He's still funny 783 00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:31,559 and hilarious at time. But yes, yeah, serious way if 784 00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:32,360 that makes sense sense. 785 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I say they're I say both companies they're 786 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:38,159 doing a little bit. 787 00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:39,199 Speaker 3: It's give them. 788 00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 4: Both that they're a little better than last year, but 789 00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:44,679 there's still a lot of room for both to improve. 790 00:38:45,039 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree, And I would say also, the women's 791 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,159 main event at all In will be either Tekla thirty 792 00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,800 three or Willow, who I think is thirty two, so 793 00:38:55,559 --> 00:38:57,920 fighting Mercedes. So I mean on the women's side, they're 794 00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,559 doing pretty Gooch well, it was established. 795 00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 4: You know, she's been around, she's had she's been up 796 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:03,639 and down the card. 797 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,159 Speaker 3: But Tekla, yeah, that was a she was when she 798 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:07,800 first came in. 799 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,119 Speaker 4: And I because I didn't know ever from Japan, but 800 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,519 I'm like, who is this? Need you know, I don't 801 00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:15,840 like her look, but I mean I do respect. I 802 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,559 respect what she does. She's a good wrestler and she's 803 00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:22,840 growing on me slowly like a wart, but you know 804 00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:23,760 she's going on me. 805 00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 3: I appreciate her. 806 00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 2: We agree as far as young writing the stars, both 807 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,199 companies are doing better over the last year than they 808 00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:32,320 were this last year. So that's a bright spot because 809 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,599 mostly they've been the saver worse. I think I would say. 810 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 4: I think the I think both companies too, should take 811 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,039 their top young talent, the Fletchers and the Kesha's, the Oba's, 812 00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:46,360 the Tricks, the Javan's, and you need to start really 813 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,199 getting them closer to the top of the card though 814 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,760 for the longevity of your company, because your top stars 815 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:53,920 are aging out. 816 00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:57,679 Speaker 2: Right stars right now should be used to put over 817 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,960 the younger stars coming up, like Keny Omega should be 818 00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:03,239 losing the Fletcher Oba should be beating cmpunks. That kind 819 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,559 of stuff should be happening. Yep. Absolutely time to give back, 820 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:09,000 so they got room to improve as far as that goes. 821 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,000 But you'd already stated this is not a big deal 822 00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:13,840 to you. But another thing I have on the list 823 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,239 here is a general match quality. So over the last 824 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,719 year or so, and I mean last year's SummerSlam, I 825 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,960 thought punkin Gunther was a good main event, and a 826 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,840 lot of people liked Cody Rhodes and John Cena. I 827 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,440 had quibbles with that street fight. First of all, it 828 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,719 went thirty eight minutes thirty eight and you. 829 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 4: Just so people know they're listening to this, me and 830 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:40,599 Josh talk outside of like the podcasts and comments sections 831 00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:42,559 are when he's Cols and this. 832 00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:43,679 Speaker 2: Is not our first conversation. 833 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,119 Speaker 4: No. My philosophy, and I've stated this numerous times, is 834 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,280 there is almost zero circumstances that I need to see 835 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,519 any two wrestlers russell for longer than twenty minutes. 836 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 2: And this is actually a spot where we disagree. I 837 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,119 don't mind a twenty twenty five minute match, especially if 838 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:01,360 you got like will osp I can watch them for 839 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,320 thirty minutes, no. 840 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,679 Speaker 4: Problem, especially on a pay per view where it's where 841 00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,239 it's big. I don't need to see that on a 842 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,559 random raw or a random dynamite. 843 00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:12,119 Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, keep it movement, But in what world 844 00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:14,719 do you need to see Cody Rose in John Cena 845 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,000 fighting for almost forty minutes? 846 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,159 Speaker 3: Hell in Hell? 847 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,199 Speaker 4: Like if I was in Hell, that's that's where I 848 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,280 would that would be on a loop. So if I 849 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,639 was in Hell, just so people know, if it would 850 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,760 be on one screen, you'd have that match just on 851 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,760 a loop, and then on the other one of the 852 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,760 Darby Allen and Jungle Boy, Jack Perry and you Wheeler 853 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,719 Udah clips just NonStop, and then that's and I'd be like, 854 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,760 this is the fiery Duff's the hell. I wish I 855 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,480 would have been a better person when I was alive. 856 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,039 Speaker 2: That is on brand. It's crazy though, that Cody and 857 00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:53,320 Sena match could have been very good if they chopped 858 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,360 off Oh I don't know seventeen minutes, cause I had 859 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,599 a lot of interesting moments and spots and what worked. 860 00:41:58,639 --> 00:41:59,760 But it's just so. 861 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 4: I appreciate that they did that kind of Match because 862 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,440 it hit a lot of Sina's inabilities at this later 863 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,360 stage of his career and being I don't think it 864 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,559 was that he physically couldn't do more. I think he 865 00:42:11,599 --> 00:42:15,119 was physically afraid to do more because you know, I 866 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:18,159 got movies to make kids. He's got a correct You 867 00:42:18,199 --> 00:42:19,519 can't hurt my vocal cores. 868 00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 3: On the Voice of Honda. 869 00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 6: On Tuesday nights, the conversation doesn't stop when nxtends, it's 870 00:42:26,519 --> 00:42:28,920 just getting started. I'm Nate Lindberg, and alongside my co 871 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,400 host Kelly Wells, we bring you PWT Talks NXT. We 872 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,840 go live on the pw torch YouTube channel about fifteen 873 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,840 minutes after the show to break down matches, storylines, and surprises, 874 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,159 and we take your questions and comments from the live chat. 875 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:41,760 Miss us live. But you still want to be part 876 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,440 of the show, send your thoughts to pw torch nxtatgmail 877 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,760 dot com and catch the replay on YouTube or on 878 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,480 the pw torch Daily cast feed. Just search pw torch 879 00:42:49,519 --> 00:42:52,079 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. And of 880 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,480 course you can always stream the latest shows at pw 881 00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:57,920 torch dot com. 882 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 2: So so yeah, last year I would say was not 883 00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:04,400 great in the ring I thought, I mean Becky and 884 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:05,400 Lyra I thought was good. 885 00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 4: All right. 886 00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:09,280 Speaker 2: They also had Naomi, Rhea and EO in a three 887 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,159 way women's match, which I'm gonna being very good but 888 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,559 not even close to God. It's just Rio and Ea 889 00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:17,880 versus yeah together. So yeah, it wasn't last year. 890 00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:20,079 Speaker 3: I say this year is gonna be better. 891 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say, without having seen it, I'm almost certain 892 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,239 this year will be better. From any we said, Brock 893 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,519 and Oba should be very good, Seth and Roman can 894 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:30,199 have very good match, and then punkin Roads are both 895 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,599 like very good at what they do. I think they 896 00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:34,960 will be able to put together a good match hopefully 897 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:35,880 don't go forty minutes. 898 00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope not, because like I'm looking at the 899 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,519 Seth and Roman matches, like there's different levels in what 900 00:43:43,559 --> 00:43:45,679 you like of what makes the match like a five 901 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,199 star match. I think that they will do a very 902 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,320 good job of in match storytelling of what their facials 903 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,719 and the talking. I think that that's gonna get scratched 904 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,000 stage for people that look for that in a match. 905 00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:02,440 Is it gonna be a Meltzer gushing five star match? No, 906 00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:06,119 it's not. And you know, but that's not WWE style, 907 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,159 So I mean, I don't go into every walk. Sometimes 908 00:44:09,159 --> 00:44:11,400 he surprised me and a match is so much better 909 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,880 than what I ever expected it to be, you know, 910 00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,719 and then I'm pleasantly surprised, I guess because the bar 911 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,400 is so low. Like the triple threat McIntyre, Gunther and 912 00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:25,480 Seamus was at WrestleMania or King of the or Clash 913 00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:28,320 at the One of the Moat or whatever one of 914 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,760 those were, the hand of the three way over the 915 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,760 entercamp that was. That match was so much better than 916 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,960 like I was ever anticipating, like sometimes you do that, 917 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,719 Whereas like AW, I'm more surprised when a match doesn't 918 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,559 hit from an N ring perspective, like if something's clunky, 919 00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:46,239 I'm like, oh, that's an odd ofty because they're normally 920 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,000 that's their strong point is they're always gonna bring it. 921 00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,239 You're gonna get five hundred spammed you know, finishers with 922 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,920 kickouts and near falls and you know you can't turn 923 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,679 your head away if that's your thing. I mean, it's 924 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,920 you know, two just totally different. Whereas like if you 925 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,280 asked me better or worse from a match quality for AW, 926 00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:06,599 for this year. To me, I'm just gonna say it's 927 00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:10,840 gonna be a push because they always deliver. They always 928 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,760 deliver from an inn ring perspective, WWE the bar from 929 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,280 last year from what I can remember that Summer Slam, 930 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:17,800 it's not. 931 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 3: Going to be a hard bar to get over. 932 00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 4: The top for a better, more compelling, you know, in 933 00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:23,960 ring product. 934 00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:25,519 Speaker 2: I'm going with you. This year also is going to 935 00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:27,679 have I mean Penton Gable. That would be a good match. 936 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,400 There'll be a lot of solid entering stuff this year SummerSlam. Yeah, 937 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,480 and you already said this, and I think I agree 938 00:45:33,519 --> 00:45:36,519 with you entirely. All in will be very good like 939 00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,039 it was last year. Although the main event last year 940 00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:42,280 Hangman in Moxley, that was actually a very ww style 941 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,559 storyline forward match. In addition to the high work rate, 942 00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:47,559 and it was a mox match, it was bloody, and. 943 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,679 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of Gaga and other stuff. 944 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 4: Yep. 945 00:45:50,159 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean and that's great. 946 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 4: And guess what, their fan base loved it even though 947 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,400 it was very WWE, like I know, right, don't tell 948 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,000 anybody though, believe. 949 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 2: The fan base will probably prefer this match. I'm sure 950 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,920 Meltzer is gonna have to be wearing like eight pairs 951 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:07,440 of underwear to get through this match. 952 00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 4: Oh god, yeah, it's us. He's already a start and 953 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,119 at seven stars and it can only go up from there. 954 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 3: He doesn't he haven't even touched yet. 955 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 2: It's seven stars, right, as long as neither one of 956 00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:21,360 them physically takes a dump in the middle of the ring. Actually, 957 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,800 that might do it for him. Honestly, I don't know 958 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,440 what they could do to get less than seven stars. 959 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. And it's gonna be a great match. 960 00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:27,559 Speaker 2: It will be. 961 00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:29,119 Speaker 3: That's where I'm That's where. 962 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,199 Speaker 4: My whole thing of like when I say, oh, I 963 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,760 really want to preferred MJF to be the one going 964 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,559 against Will. Don't get me wrong. Both matches are gonna 965 00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:40,760 be great. And I and with what Kenny has been 966 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,199 doing lately and being more serious and his promo work 967 00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:47,840 has been so good that I think that if he 968 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,639 continues on that path and they can get Osprey to 969 00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:53,840 be more serious Will, which from what I heard, he 970 00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:57,559 was much more serious last night on Collision than he 971 00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,159 was on Wednesday. 972 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 2: And hopefully I like that on Dynamite this week because 973 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,679 he literally just humble the guy in submission. 974 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 3: It was good, I said on. 975 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,639 Speaker 4: The in the after show chat on Wednesday, I called 976 00:47:10,679 --> 00:47:14,199 him Will Cena for all the goofy facial expressions and 977 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,119 over the top mannerisms he was making in the background 978 00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:21,760 of the Penny and Kevin Knight interaction, and I was 979 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,480 just like, come on, Will, You're better than that, you know, 980 00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:26,280 But yeah, it's gonna be a great And I think 981 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,760 they can tell a good story. I do, and I 982 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,679 think that they do have time. There's just I if 983 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,440 I'm booking that product, I do the last three months 984 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,559 totally differently than what they did, Like the Derby thing 985 00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:40,440 never happens. 986 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,760 Speaker 3: If I was going to take the title off of. 987 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 4: MJUF to set this up when he lost to Darby 988 00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:48,360 is when he should have lost to Kenny, if you were, 989 00:47:50,039 --> 00:47:52,800 and then you start to build because he wins that 990 00:47:53,199 --> 00:47:57,519 at the same time that Will wins the Owen and 991 00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:00,480 then you could have the first face to face right 992 00:48:00,559 --> 00:48:04,159 after Kenny wins the title and you know, set it 993 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:05,960 up and then start to tell the story because he 994 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,480 didn't tell. I've had people Zach Barber try to tell 995 00:48:09,519 --> 00:48:11,199 me that this was the story that they were telling 996 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,719 all along. Was the passing the torch with Kenny. No, 997 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,159 it's that was not the story. That was never the story. 998 00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:22,519 That story just started the minute that Kenny won the title. 999 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,920 The story was is Kenny and Mox fighting for the 1000 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,079 good versus evil side of will Osprey of which road 1001 00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,159 was he going to go down? That was what the 1002 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,840 story was that they were telling. And they pivoted, which 1003 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,199 is fine. Sometimes you have to pivot. There could be 1004 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,679 reasons they pivoted that we're not privy to that made 1005 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,400 them have to do it. 1006 00:48:40,639 --> 00:48:41,639 Speaker 3: Mjf' knee. 1007 00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 4: There could be a lot of different things of why 1008 00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:47,000 I'm fine with the story they're telling. But like I 1009 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,719 said earlier, you could have told that story after all 1010 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,440 in with Mox involved and really gotten some good compelling 1011 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,000 not only in ring stuff but out of ring stuff. 1012 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,599 And that's what I think it's been missing all on 1013 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,440 from me aw where you know ww and sometimes it's 1014 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,599 all about luck in right place, right time. They caught 1015 00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:13,079 fire with that whole bloodline thing, and really the bloodline thing. 1016 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,199 What sparked that and took it to the next level 1017 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:20,280 was something as silly as Sammy getting at it in 1018 00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:22,679 and it was a happy accident. I don't think that 1019 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,880 was meant to last as long as it did, and 1020 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,280 it caught fire and they left them in there and 1021 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,599 look at what it produced. Aw has not had that 1022 00:49:30,679 --> 00:49:35,079 one prolonged. They've tried and it just hasn't hit. I 1023 00:49:35,079 --> 00:49:36,719 think that was what they were trying to do with 1024 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,639 the Death Riders and the conquering the Death Riders, and 1025 00:49:39,679 --> 00:49:42,559 it just didn't hit, didn't hit the way it needed to. 1026 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,280 But I think if they could catch their nWo, their 1027 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,239 stone cold Steve Austin, which I know it's easier said 1028 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,519 than done, you know, because you just but once you 1029 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,760 catch that, I don't trust that Tony has enough to 1030 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,119 grab a hold of it and go, I'm riding this 1031 00:49:58,440 --> 00:49:59,559 until it bucks me. 1032 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,039 Speaker 2: You also have to know you caught that. You can't 1033 00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:05,119 be so set in what you've planned on doing that 1034 00:50:05,199 --> 00:50:08,159 you missed something happening kind of on the periphery. Ww 1035 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:09,880 is missed like that. A lot of times they might 1036 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,920 be missing, like right now with oba on. 1037 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 3: That I think they are. 1038 00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 4: They almost missed it with Daniel Bryan or Brian Damson, 1039 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,960 whichever you want. Finally he relented and did the right thing, 1040 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,719 and maybe my favorite WrestleMania of all time was Wrestlingia. 1041 00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:27,480 It was so many, it was memorable. You had the 1042 00:50:27,559 --> 00:50:30,400 great opener with him in Triple H. You had the 1043 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,239 streak ending whether however you feel about that one way 1044 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:34,880 or the other, if it should have happened, it was 1045 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,320 definitely shocking, and we're still talking about it fifteen years 1046 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,920 almost later. So you, like you said, you have to 1047 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,880 know be able to say this is this might be 1048 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,039 that moment, and I need to grab it as a 1049 00:50:47,079 --> 00:50:50,960 promoter or a booker. So hopefully the I want anybody 1050 00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:55,239 to see me in the comments sections on or when 1051 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,800 I've called into Wade shows. I don't criticize AW because 1052 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,000 I hate it. I criticize AW because I want it 1053 00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:07,239 to be even better and bigger and sustainable than it 1054 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,280 is right now. It's my criticism comes from a good place, 1055 00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:13,800 even though it doesn't always come off that way. 1056 00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:15,079 Speaker 3: That's just because I'm. 1057 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 4: An asshole, But you know, it's because I want to 1058 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,119 see it improve and I want it to be here 1059 00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:24,199 for a long time. I want them to overcome and 1060 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,519 be better than WWE from a business the whole standpoint, 1061 00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:31,840 because I do think they're a more moral company. 1062 00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 3: I'll just put it at that. 1063 00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 2: Right, they usually have the moral high ground in any argument. Yeah, 1064 00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:39,320 TKO being what it is, and also yeah, and history 1065 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:40,719 is never going to look good at this point. 1066 00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:43,960 Speaker 4: But yeah, I I went off on a tangent there. 1067 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:48,559 I don't even remember what the topic was. Match quality, Yeah, yeah, 1068 00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:53,079 so yeah we're great. Yeah, the aw great match quality WWE. 1069 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,760 They always sneak one or two in that surprise you 1070 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:57,159 on every show. 1071 00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm confident I think we landed on this 1072 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,400 year on paper, should be a much better in ring 1073 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:03,280 product than last year. 1074 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,079 Speaker 4: And I'll even say this, I'll even say it all 1075 00:52:06,119 --> 00:52:09,320 in we'll probably I was gonna say, be better, but 1076 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,320 then I'm thinking Osprey and Kenny will definitely be a 1077 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,400 better in ring main event than what Hangman and Mox was. 1078 00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:19,679 But I also don't think that Willow, if it's Willow 1079 00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:22,280 that wins, that Willow Mercedes will be better than Tony 1080 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,039 Mercedes was probably not right. 1081 00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:28,159 Speaker 2: Teches would be interesting, but I don't know. 1082 00:52:28,199 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 4: I think it would be a better match honestly, because 1083 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,079 and once again we've seen Willow Mercedes how many different 1084 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,119 times a couple. At least at least it's for a 1085 00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:39,920 different title. This time, it's elevated, it's moved up the card, 1086 00:52:40,199 --> 00:52:43,719 which I've said in conversations of that's what I think 1087 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,840 they need to is to have their their Triple h 1088 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,519 in the Rock or stone Hold on the Rock where okay, 1089 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,000 their rival restarted when they weren't huge stars yet for 1090 00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,280 the mid card titles, and they grew, They grew, and 1091 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,400 the states grew, and their star power grew through many 1092 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:04,079 years to where they became the company they were the drawers. 1093 00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:04,679 Speaker 3: You know. 1094 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,639 Speaker 4: Also AW has people they can do that. 1095 00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:10,119 Speaker 2: With, right, Like, one day I want to see Takesha 1096 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,760 and Fletcher for the AW world title. That would be 1097 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,519 just like and actually neither Willow nor Mercedes have held 1098 00:53:16,519 --> 00:53:19,039 the women's world title, so could be that. 1099 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so I think I think it has a 1100 00:53:21,519 --> 00:53:24,199 chance to be better. You know, look at me being 1101 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,320 positive bodyw I think it's going to be better. 1102 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:27,079 Speaker 2: Who would have guessed? 1103 00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:30,639 Speaker 1: You know, that last segment you're just listening to and 1104 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,800 the next one that you're waiting to listen to, those 1105 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,280 can be one second apart. With a VIP membership, you 1106 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,360 can unlock our commercial free versions of our shows pw 1107 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,960 torch dot com slash Go VIP tells you how to 1108 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,079 do it. That's PW torch dot com slash Go VIP 1109 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,000 options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple 1110 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,239 account through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync 1111 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,599 up with Spotify or just about any iOS or Android app. 1112 00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:56,559 With a full VIP membership, you can customize the feed 1113 00:53:56,599 --> 00:53:59,840 for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go 1114 00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,840 to pw Torch dot com slash Go vip for full 1115 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,760 details on all the options to listen commercial free and 1116 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,119 with upper tier options unlock our VP exclusive podcast run 1117 00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:11,400 throughout the week every week. 1118 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,519 Speaker 2: I think right now, yeah, yeah, again, assuming Kenny Omega 1119 00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:19,800 and Osprey doesn't go off the rails someway, it should. 1120 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 4: Be better, all right. 1121 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,280 Speaker 2: So our next topic was production and also kind of 1122 00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:28,280 just gone a kind of lump commentary into that over 1123 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,800 the last year. Now, that's not going to be like 1124 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,239 Summer Slam specific, right, it's just. 1125 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,119 Speaker 4: We Yeah, we were just doing kind of like a 1126 00:54:37,159 --> 00:54:40,760 state of both companies overall too, from year to year, 1127 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,440 from last year's summer extravaganzas to this summer's extravaganzas. 1128 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 2: So right, so ww they haven't had I mean, has 1129 00:54:50,039 --> 00:54:53,360 anything weird happened? They got ridden? Did they have Pat 1130 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,000 McAfee and commentary last year? Maybe I don't remember me 1131 00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:59,199 a little bit, but he every once in a while. Yeah, 1132 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,480 so they've improved, they have less Pat McAfee. I think 1133 00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:04,199 Joe Tessa Tour has settled into his position. 1134 00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:06,880 Speaker 4: I don't think he's went down a little bit for me. 1135 00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:10,039 I think he's I think they're in his ear too much. Now, 1136 00:55:10,119 --> 00:55:14,800 that's my biggest complaint with WWE commentary is, you know, 1137 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,599 some things that are being said on there is being 1138 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,840 fed through the ear piece and is not something that 1139 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,719 would have been said normally throughout if you were really 1140 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,119 commentating a real match. 1141 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:28,760 Speaker 3: Just too much of the shilling, you know. 1142 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,119 Speaker 4: That would be my biggest I think the quality of 1143 00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:34,480 the actual commentary is good. I think they have a 1144 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,840 good mix. I like Cole and Graves, I think do 1145 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,559 good work together. I think Barrett and test Tour play 1146 00:55:40,679 --> 00:55:43,800 really well off of each other. There's an absence of 1147 00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:48,119 irritants to steal a weight thing, whereas I can't say 1148 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,639 the same thing for the competitor. 1149 00:55:51,079 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so like WWE is probably commentary wise about the same. 1150 00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:59,280 Like I said, is kind of thee. 1151 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,119 Speaker 4: Is we're about the same in their production value is 1152 00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:03,159 the same because their production value is always a. 1153 00:56:03,199 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 2: Plus Oh yeah, absolutely, although I wish they would put 1154 00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:09,079 more work into the stage and pay per view set 1155 00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:10,800 up like they're very like us. 1156 00:56:11,519 --> 00:56:14,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I used to love the old unique Each pay 1157 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,519 per view had its own when they came, it was unique. 1158 00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:20,000 It didn't like like you were just watching every other show. 1159 00:56:20,199 --> 00:56:21,880 Speaker 2: Like you would see a clip from it, you'd be like, oh, 1160 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,280 I know what show that was. Yeah that was cool. 1161 00:56:26,119 --> 00:56:29,599 But yeah, you're right. As far as their production camera work, 1162 00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:31,719 lighting a lot of stuff, Yeah, that's always going to 1163 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,039 be a that's the thing they do. They've been doing 1164 00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:36,440 it for years. They got it basically to a science. 1165 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,119 Although they had they had a couple audio gaps a 1166 00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:42,519 couple yeah, which was weird. Very the fact that it 1167 00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:44,880 stuck out was what made it. 1168 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,079 Speaker 3: It shows you how much of an anomaly. 1169 00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:48,840 Speaker 2: It was, right, whereas if we get a a E 1170 00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:54,760 W audio graph like, oh yeah that tracks Wednesday. It's Wednesday, right, 1171 00:56:55,559 --> 00:56:59,519 So aw. Production wise, I think actually they are probably 1172 00:56:59,519 --> 00:57:01,599 they've been doing better. They used to have a miss 1173 00:57:01,679 --> 00:57:03,960 a lot of stuff on camera. They haven't had any 1174 00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:06,440 like crazy, oh my god, they missed somebody going to 1175 00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:08,000 a table moments lately. 1176 00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,599 Speaker 4: Right. They used to have those, Yeah, they've. 1177 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:11,320 Speaker 3: Gotten better with that. 1178 00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 4: I think both companies recently I've noticed haven't done their 1179 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:16,719 performers any favors. 1180 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,559 Speaker 3: They catch the wrong angle. 1181 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,559 Speaker 4: So you see that they're totally missing, Like damn it, 1182 00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:24,119 I do you got that one camera shot you held 1183 00:57:24,159 --> 00:57:26,840 on with that angle just a second too long without 1184 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,199 going to a different where you just see the person 1185 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,280 completely miss right. But that's gonna happen. That's just. 1186 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're hey, yeah there's no net but uh. 1187 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, lighting wise, like aw commentary is a pet peeve, 1188 00:57:42,599 --> 00:57:45,840 and I think that any everybody in the wrestling world, 1189 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,320 I think feels pretty much the same way that they 1190 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,639 need a definite upgrade in their commentary. Tony Shiavanni needs 1191 00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:55,840 to just I'm not gonna say that anything bad, like 1192 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,559 harmful needs to happen to him. He just needs to 1193 00:57:58,599 --> 00:58:00,679 go away. It's time to go home the lowest and 1194 00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:05,039 your dogs. And you know you're not good at this job, Tony. 1195 00:58:05,239 --> 00:58:07,360 I mean, and now that I've went back and I've 1196 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,920 watched some old night, you were never good at your job. 1197 00:58:10,199 --> 00:58:12,760 So I don't know how you're import I see why 1198 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,440 you didn't have a job in wrestling for twenty years, 1199 00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:20,440 because you weren't very good at ex Caliber is ex caliber. 1200 00:58:20,519 --> 00:58:22,559 I just wish he'd slow down a little bit, show 1201 00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:26,159 a little more emotion. Tans is great. Tanz is the 1202 00:58:26,159 --> 00:58:30,239 best thing going, And when Don Kallas is on commentary, 1203 00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:34,920 that's the only two shining, shining bright spots of commentary 1204 00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:38,840 and aw or Taz and Don Kallas. Other than that, 1205 00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,079 Nigel's okay. I like ian ric Abonni when he steps in. 1206 00:58:43,079 --> 00:58:45,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, but other than that, we did a whole wors 1207 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,639 better on commentary. Yes, you were not kind to Tony 1208 00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:51,280 Schavanni or aw in general. They just have not found 1209 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,239 like the right mix. Like Caliber has things he's good at, 1210 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,679 but Chevanni has nothing as good at. I think we 1211 00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,559 agree on that. He's nonsensical, doesn't what's going on, yells 1212 00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:04,280 out platitude tells you how good what you're watching is, 1213 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,360 like you don't have your own opinion on it? Right, 1214 00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:10,039 very annoying. FYI Collision last night, which I know you 1215 00:59:10,039 --> 00:59:11,960 didn't watch. While watch and you're lucky to not have 1216 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,519 to watch, had the big show Paul White and Tony 1217 00:59:15,519 --> 00:59:19,639 Shavanni teaming up on commentary, and it was truly awful. 1218 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,440 Speaker 4: It was Yeah, I just thought of what I'm like 1219 00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:25,400 in my head, I'm back in Hell, and you have 1220 00:59:25,559 --> 00:59:28,960 the Scena match with Cody. You have all the other 1221 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,719 people from AW I talked about and then, but I 1222 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,440 don't get to hear either one of those. I have 1223 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,920 headphones that are glued into my ears, and it's Big 1224 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:43,239 Show and Shavanni commentating just on a loop, NonStop. 1225 00:59:43,559 --> 00:59:45,679 Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It's pretty close to hell. It was 1226 00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:46,280 very bad. 1227 00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,199 Speaker 3: They I can feel the heap right now just thinking 1228 00:59:48,239 --> 00:59:48,679 about it. 1229 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,800 Speaker 2: They didn't know the names of moves, like Big Show 1230 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,000 kept weirdly calling Sheida, he kept calling like Caru. I'm 1231 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,280 like the fact he calls her by her first name 1232 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,840 and nobody else in the world does, says Ever watched 1233 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:01,639 one of her matches. 1234 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,840 Speaker 3: Ever he's been collecting a paycheck though. 1235 01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:04,440 Speaker 4: Good for him. 1236 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:06,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm guessing he is. 1237 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,079 Speaker 4: And then I've always had I've always had a problem 1238 01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:13,599 with aw's lighting and set. I just got the money, 1239 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,679 I think maybe, and I'm I'm gonna give them a 1240 01:00:18,679 --> 01:00:22,239 little benefit of the doubt. I think it's easier to 1241 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,239 get your lighting and your production good all the time 1242 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:27,880 when you know that you're always going to be in 1243 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,239 a big arena, their venues changing are so different from 1244 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,239 week to week that you're probably not bringing the whole 1245 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,480 same type of lighting, rigs and things. You're kind of 1246 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,960 at mercy of how these places are and maybe even 1247 01:00:41,079 --> 01:00:43,440 using their lighting. So it might not be one hundred 1248 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,719 percent his fault, you know, or aw's fault. So I 1249 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:50,159 will give that caveat of playing these you know, bingle 1250 01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:53,239 Now I'm being an asshole bingal halls. But you know, 1251 01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,519 like the smaller like music theaters and things like, you know, 1252 01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,800 like the third tier, like I know, like here in 1253 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,679 the Troit, like for your biggest and biggest shows, you're 1254 01:01:02,719 --> 01:01:06,199 gonna be at Ford Field. Like if it's Beyonce or 1255 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,320 Taylor Swift, they're gonna be at Ford Field. 1256 01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:09,639 Speaker 3: They're at the football stadium. 1257 01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,800 Speaker 4: You might get an old nostalgic like Guns n' Rosas 1258 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,559 are somebody that's gonna do an outdoor concert at Comerica 1259 01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:18,079 Park our baseball stadium. Then you got most of the 1260 01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:20,960 new popular music and things, and this is where WWE 1261 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,480 always comes Little Caesars Arena where the hockey team and 1262 01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:26,760 then for like a band that's either on the come 1263 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,599 up or just touring, still trying to make money because 1264 01:01:29,599 --> 01:01:31,320 you got bills to pay. They're gonna be at the 1265 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:35,800 Masonic Temple or the Fillmore or Fox Theater, these much 1266 01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:36,760 smaller venues. 1267 01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:39,760 Speaker 3: That's where AW is right now. 1268 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,320 Speaker 4: So yeah, and the lighting and the production when I 1269 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,719 go see a show at one of those smaller shows, yeah, 1270 01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:46,800 it's not gonna compare to when I watch something at 1271 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,519 Ford Field or Little Caesars Arena here in Detroit. So yeah, 1272 01:01:50,559 --> 01:01:52,679 so it is what it is. So that may be 1273 01:01:52,679 --> 01:01:56,039 because those places are made to look a little more 1274 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,239 dark and dingy and hardcore. 1275 01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:02,440 Speaker 2: So right, the cheaper because they are cheaper, it makes sense. 1276 01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,440 Speaker 3: It makes me sad. 1277 01:02:04,719 --> 01:02:07,159 Speaker 2: We were talking about how we wish that W tow 1278 01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:09,840 B pay per views had like the big crazy sets 1279 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,960 they used do I think a W also doesn't do 1280 01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:13,519 a lot with their sets like that when they do, 1281 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,239 even when they do like theme shows, with the exception 1282 01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,280 of the Beach Break from two weeks ago, where they. 1283 01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 4: Did a good job, I didn't like it because I 1284 01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,039 started out at the beginning of the night. 1285 01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:27,119 Speaker 3: Like I was like, I think this looks like shit. 1286 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:33,000 Speaker 4: But it's because any outdoor venue for wrestling looks like 1287 01:02:33,079 --> 01:02:35,880 crap until the til the sun goes down, right, I 1288 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,760 thought once the sun went down and the lighting took over, 1289 01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,400 it looked much much better. So that was more of 1290 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,719 a circumstance thing, I think than the actual venue. So 1291 01:02:46,119 --> 01:02:47,639 you know, I can admit when I was wrong. 1292 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,239 Speaker 2: Right, Well, even like at a WrestleMania, like with the 1293 01:02:51,239 --> 01:02:53,519 first couple of matches, it's just broad daylight. They almost 1294 01:02:53,559 --> 01:02:55,480 have this like they just less than look about them. 1295 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, the worst one I can think of was the 1296 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:03,719 San Francisco one. Right, for Sting's interest to happen in 1297 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,559 the daylight and for the Undertaker and bray Wyatt it 1298 01:03:06,679 --> 01:03:09,440 to still be light outside, it wasn't. 1299 01:03:09,199 --> 01:03:12,719 Speaker 2: Great, right, That's just antithetical through the character at that point. Yeah, 1300 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,400 that's not great. 1301 01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:21,639 Speaker 7: Hey everyone, longtime PW torchcommist Sean radikin here to let 1302 01:03:21,679 --> 01:03:25,199 you know I've rebamped and renewed the Raticant Worldwide podcast 1303 01:03:25,239 --> 01:03:29,440 for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, 1304 01:03:29,559 --> 01:03:31,880 I break down four or five of the biggest trending 1305 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,960 topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing 1306 01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,800 insight that helps you understand the story better or see 1307 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,880 it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there 1308 01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:44,239 then I bring on a special guest for the second 1309 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,280 half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone 1310 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,639 else who works in the business. Other times it's a 1311 01:03:49,679 --> 01:03:52,719 guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view out 1312 01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:55,800 a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have 1313 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,119 included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my 1314 01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:01,920 areas of special is the Japan wrestling scene, so I 1315 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,880 have to cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch, 1316 01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,639 his own, Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I 1317 01:04:08,679 --> 01:04:10,920 don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on 1318 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,239 the news and give a standard hot take. I'll bring 1319 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,039 my decades of studying this industry and talking one on 1320 01:04:16,039 --> 01:04:19,480 one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show 1321 01:04:19,679 --> 01:04:22,880 so you understand not just what's happening, but the context 1322 01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,519 of why get ahead of the news, get ahead of 1323 01:04:25,519 --> 01:04:30,440 the pack with Radking worldwide only at PW Torch vip. 1324 01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:36,559 Speaker 2: SO, I think aw's production probably is actually a little better. 1325 01:04:36,639 --> 01:04:41,800 There have been less general goofs so yep in WW 1326 01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,880 of course remains. 1327 01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:47,079 Speaker 4: Good as always. It's always gonna be good, all right. 1328 01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:48,760 Speaker 2: And then the last thing we had on here is 1329 01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,880 actually less opinion heated. It's in release to attendance, especially 1330 01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:58,039 since we're talking Summer Slam. Last year's was the first 1331 01:04:58,119 --> 01:05:00,920 two night Summer Slam. This was the peer were WW 1332 01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:02,880 realized that they can make an event two nights and 1333 01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,760 sell twice as many tickets and make twice as much money. 1334 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,840 And that's apparently what we're doing into the foreseeable future. 1335 01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:12,519 I don't remember. Here's what I know. I know everybody 1336 01:05:12,599 --> 01:05:16,000 is saying that this SummerSlam is not selling. Well, I 1337 01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:17,639 don't remember how well they did last year. 1338 01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:19,039 Speaker 4: I could probably look that up. 1339 01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:20,280 Speaker 3: Actually, I'm gonna guess. 1340 01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,679 Speaker 4: I think last year they were in the right around 1341 01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:24,960 the forty ish thousand for each night. 1342 01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,559 Speaker 2: Let's see, Okay, well these are going to be the 1343 01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:34,440 WW numbers. So the announced numbers are fifty three thousand 1344 01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:36,840 the first night and sixty thousand second night. 1345 01:05:37,079 --> 01:05:40,239 Speaker 4: Those I would say, take five to seven thousand off 1346 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,599 of each of those, because they're counting ticket takers and 1347 01:05:45,079 --> 01:05:50,079 sincession stand workers and security so and so and none 1348 01:05:50,119 --> 01:05:52,840 of that. How many were actually paid for tickets, how 1349 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,239 many were comped, how many you know, the dignitaries and 1350 01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,920 shit like that, but I know why they're why they're 1351 01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:03,480 numbers are down this year. I think it's the consumers 1352 01:06:03,519 --> 01:06:07,320 are fet up with the pricing. There's that, and the 1353 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,159 product just hasn't been very good. There's nothing that compelling 1354 01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,800 to make you want to spend you know, three mortgage 1355 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:15,840 payments on a ticket to watch a wrestling event that 1356 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,559 you can watch for nothing or next to nothing from 1357 01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:19,119 your college. 1358 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to argue at that point. Like you said, 1359 01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:23,800 the product is not as hot as it was, and 1360 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,679 they had this year's tickets are cheap. Here I'll tell 1361 01:06:26,679 --> 01:06:29,679 you a quick story. I considered going to this year's 1362 01:06:29,679 --> 01:06:32,800 Summer Slam because I A, I just haven't been on 1363 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,559 a vacation anywhere in a year. But also, I got 1364 01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:39,039 like a random bonus from my company for like eight dollars. 1365 01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:42,079 I'm like, yes, I can blow this and not feel 1366 01:06:42,079 --> 01:06:42,559 like an idiot. 1367 01:06:42,679 --> 01:06:42,800 Speaker 4: Right. 1368 01:06:43,199 --> 01:06:44,880 Speaker 2: So I looked at Summer Slam and I'm like, yeah, 1369 01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,519 I can fly to Minnesota. I've never been in Minnesota. 1370 01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:49,440 That'll be fun. And then I looked at tickets and 1371 01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,800 I was like, okay, wait, so there's two nights I 1372 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,480 would go to both nights. Both nights are very expensive 1373 01:06:54,639 --> 01:06:55,800 on that, but I have to fly in, I have 1374 01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,960 to stay at a hotel two nights, I probably have 1375 01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,679 to rent a car. And before I knew it, I 1376 01:06:59,679 --> 01:07:01,239 talked myself out of it. I'm like, I'm just going 1377 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,000 to get a new guitar and call this. 1378 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,039 Speaker 4: I would be willing to bet that if you priced 1379 01:07:06,079 --> 01:07:09,679 it out, you could go with a better ticket. You 1380 01:07:09,719 --> 01:07:14,840 could go to London and watch all In cheaper than 1381 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,559 you could fly from anywhere in the United States and 1382 01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:19,199 do two nights of SummerSlam. 1383 01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:22,280 Speaker 2: I'll tell you how I know you're right. I also 1384 01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,800 looked it all In, but yeah, I looked at the prices. 1385 01:07:25,159 --> 01:07:27,280 It was basically the same. But when you factor in 1386 01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:28,840 the fact that you would maybe only have to stay 1387 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,840 like one night, it was actually, yes, cheaper to go 1388 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,360 to all In in London than to go to both 1389 01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,480 nights in Minnesota. 1390 01:07:36,519 --> 01:07:39,000 Speaker 3: And it's London, I mean, it's you know, it's never 1391 01:07:39,079 --> 01:07:39,639 been to London. 1392 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,519 Speaker 4: Cool. And there's a lot of cool historic you know 1393 01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:45,800 Big Ben and you know Buckingham. There's so many things 1394 01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:48,880 outside of the wrestling that you have only ever seen 1395 01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,119 on television, you know right, or read about or seen in. 1396 01:07:52,119 --> 01:07:55,119 Speaker 3: A history book or when you were in school, So I'm. 1397 01:07:55,079 --> 01:07:57,639 Speaker 2: Right, there's also you're in London, you can hop a 1398 01:07:57,679 --> 01:08:00,639 train and go visit any number of awesome near by areas. 1399 01:08:00,719 --> 01:08:03,440 I don't have anything bad to say about Minnesota or 1400 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,880 any of the people who owned the PW torch that 1401 01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,000 live in the area, But like. 1402 01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,880 Speaker 4: He's you're in Minnesota, right. 1403 01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,280 Speaker 2: Like what what? I'm sure there's awesome stuff to see 1404 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,199 in Minnesota. Also, that's probably true, but yeah, I know 1405 01:08:16,199 --> 01:08:16,840 it ain't London. 1406 01:08:17,239 --> 01:08:20,000 Speaker 4: I'll say this to me, Minnesota is just I've never 1407 01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:24,239 been there. But what I'm assuming is this just like Michigan, 1408 01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,760 just west, we have all we kind of share some 1409 01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,880 of the same lakes, same kind of weather patterns. It's 1410 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,119 you know, Minneapolis might be a little nicer than Detroit, 1411 01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:37,119 but you know. 1412 01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end of the day, it's a relatively 1413 01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:44,279 large Midwest city. But yeah, and like I said, I 1414 01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:45,840 was cool. I wanted to go there and visit, but 1415 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,439 like it's financially it was not a good idea. So 1416 01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,399 you're right, I think that WW. Now, like we said, 1417 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,960 their numbers are probably if we take ten thousand off 1418 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,560 their reported numbers, that's still forty and fifty thousand on. Yeah, 1419 01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,439 they're like twenty something. Yeah, gosh, that is. 1420 01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:08,680 Speaker 4: And Minnesota is a wrestling town, Like that's a wrestling state. 1421 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,239 Speaker 3: I mean a lot of rich wrestling history out of 1422 01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:14,520 that area. I mean from the Awa. 1423 01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,199 Speaker 4: I mean that's where Flair started, That's where Hogan really 1424 01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:22,279 cut his teeth, like Jesse Ventura. There, there's so much 1425 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,239 history of the wrestling business that came out of that Minnesota. 1426 01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:27,840 Speaker 3: Territory as well. 1427 01:09:28,119 --> 01:09:31,880 Speaker 4: Like it should have been a slam dunk to do better, 1428 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:32,680 and that they're not. 1429 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,359 Speaker 3: That is a they better. 1430 01:09:35,079 --> 01:09:38,119 Speaker 4: Be looking in the mirror from a corporate standpoint of Okay, 1431 01:09:38,119 --> 01:09:41,239 where do we fuck up? In my opinion, yeah, no, 1432 01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:43,159 that's them shooting themselves in the foot. 1433 01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:43,600 Speaker 3: You know. 1434 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,800 Speaker 4: I think anw the reason their ticket sales are lower 1435 01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:51,239 for all in is the novelty of Lemblee. 1436 01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,640 Speaker 2: Is wore off. I think that's the next year. It 1437 01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,640 already dropped massively, and now you went back for a 1438 01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,159 third time. I think that hurts. I think the on 1439 01:10:00,399 --> 01:10:04,359 world uncertainty right now with US and Iran and everybody else, 1440 01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,479 Like how many people want to hop on a plane 1441 01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:13,079 right now and fly to England who is an ally 1442 01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:17,520 of ours? And they've been more susceptible in the last decade, 1443 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,119 even of terroristic shit. It seems like more shit's happened 1444 01:10:21,119 --> 01:10:24,279 over there than's happened over here in a lot of ways. 1445 01:10:24,399 --> 01:10:27,640 And it's just like there's that too if people people 1446 01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,840 are afraid to spend money right now because there's economic uncertainty, 1447 01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:33,640 Like that's a big ass to get your people from 1448 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:37,159 the United States to fly to England. 1449 01:10:37,279 --> 01:10:39,279 Speaker 3: You're limiting where. 1450 01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,720 Speaker 4: You're gonna be able to get people from to come 1451 01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:45,760 and watch your show as well. I said, I thought 1452 01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:48,039 they might have been better off if the would it 1453 01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:51,000 looked better to have twenty eight thousand people at Wembley 1454 01:10:51,039 --> 01:10:54,720 and have to really work your camera angles or switch 1455 01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,199 it to the O two arena and it'd be standing 1456 01:10:57,279 --> 01:10:59,680 room only in England if you had to do it 1457 01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,920 in Land and just an arena just packed to the gills, 1458 01:11:04,199 --> 01:11:07,920 the lighting perfect is going to be loud, Like, which 1459 01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,159 one's better? Or do it somewhere in the United States again? 1460 01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,520 Speaker 2: Right? I mean last year it wasn't like a crazy success, 1461 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,800 but it was still better than Wembley is doing this year. 1462 01:11:19,279 --> 01:11:21,399 Speaker 4: Well, I'll even say this from last year is a 1463 01:11:21,399 --> 01:11:25,560 new venue. But they've oversaturated Texas. It seems like every 1464 01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:27,800 two weeks they're having a show in Texas, or it 1465 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:30,000 seemed like that for a while, Like they were in 1466 01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:32,399 Texas over the last couple of years a lot. 1467 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had they had the they had like a 1468 01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,239 collision residency there for like months at a time. 1469 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,159 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, so they've done, they've killed, they've saturated that mark, 1470 01:11:41,319 --> 01:11:43,960 just like they've been they've done Chicago so many times. 1471 01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,960 Like there's certain spots that they've That's why you're it's 1472 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,399 no different than oh it overstid Wy Wistlemania don't still is. 1473 01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 3: Good in Vegas this year? 1474 01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,960 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do understand this because you went to 1475 01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:56,520 the same place two years in a row, and it 1476 01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,680 is expensive. It's an expensive place to get to right now. 1477 01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:02,279 Vegas ain't cheap like it was twenty five years ago, 1478 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,760 and you're charging ten thousand dollars to get good seats 1479 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:10,199 for two nights, And like that's why WrestleMania. Like I 1480 01:12:10,199 --> 01:12:13,239 would have if I was Tony, I would have done 1481 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,600 I would have tried to do this all in in 1482 01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:16,279 New Orleans. 1483 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:18,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that actually would That would have been a nice 1484 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:21,279 little backhand for WWE for backing. 1485 01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:24,600 Speaker 4: Out News That's what I'm saying you. The people there 1486 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,079 would have appreciated it. But you know, and I think 1487 01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:31,159 what hurts AW two from just an overall attendance, because 1488 01:12:31,159 --> 01:12:33,439 if you want to drop, go down even more to 1489 01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:37,399 the dynamite like I don't understand because their tickets are 1490 01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,880 very reasonable comparative to WW. I think they're going to 1491 01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,880 be here in Detroit, not this Wednesday, but the following Wednesday. Right, 1492 01:12:45,119 --> 01:12:47,279 I think they're And a friend of mine went the 1493 01:12:47,359 --> 01:12:49,079 last time they're here, and they're coming to the same 1494 01:12:49,319 --> 01:12:53,840 venue at the Masonic Temples downtown. He got front row 1495 01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,520 center camera side, so his his mug was on the 1496 01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,159 TV the whole show. He bought that ticket the day 1497 01:13:01,199 --> 01:13:03,760 of the show last year for two hundred bucks. 1498 01:13:04,079 --> 01:13:07,279 Speaker 2: That's another thing. People are not buying tickets right when 1499 01:13:07,319 --> 01:13:09,600 they go on sale anymore. They have learned that if 1500 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,239 you wait, they will go and sale like they put 1501 01:13:11,239 --> 01:13:13,800 whim the tickets to all In on a pretty deep 1502 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,600 discount lately. And now they're over thirty thousand for it, 1503 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,760 but when it was twenty for so long. 1504 01:13:19,039 --> 01:13:24,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, and now to me, I think they're the This 1505 01:13:24,079 --> 01:13:28,239 is my opinion, the reason their tendance hurts too, or 1506 01:13:28,279 --> 01:13:31,840 why they're not growing as I think that they should be, 1507 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,119 because they do put on an overall very good product 1508 01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:37,199 most of the time. Not always my cup of tea, 1509 01:13:37,239 --> 01:13:40,479 but you know, I can see it hits more people's 1510 01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:43,359 things that they like than maybe mine. But I still 1511 01:13:43,399 --> 01:13:46,920 watch every Wednesday, I watch her. I buy a lot 1512 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,439 of the pay per views. Now, they got to earn 1513 01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,439 my money, but I think they need to on their 1514 01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,479 week to week they need to cut down on the 1515 01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,680 blood a little bit and the over save that for 1516 01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,520 your pay per views, right, make your TV a little 1517 01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,439 more family friendly to where you know you're gonna get 1518 01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:09,079 those families. And I don't think Tony really cares about 1519 01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:10,800 it if you get kids or not. He wants just 1520 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,399 the hardcore. He wants people that like what he likes, right. 1521 01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:16,399 Speaker 2: Right. 1522 01:14:16,399 --> 01:14:18,479 Speaker 4: And I guess if you're that rich and you don't care, 1523 01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:20,600 if you're not actually making money on it. 1524 01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:22,560 Speaker 3: And it's just a then it's okay. 1525 01:14:23,119 --> 01:14:25,720 Speaker 4: I look at it from a standpoint of I want 1526 01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:29,119 Tony to turn this business like because he's. 1527 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,119 Speaker 3: Not rich, his daddy's rich. 1528 01:14:30,319 --> 01:14:33,920 Speaker 4: But you could take this and make your own richness, 1529 01:14:34,279 --> 01:14:36,279 Like you could become a billionaire if you did it 1530 01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:39,960 right on your own, without your dad's money, and not 1531 01:14:40,239 --> 01:14:43,359 as much as anything else. So it's like, try to 1532 01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:47,199 make money, try to appeal, don't don't sell out, but 1533 01:14:47,319 --> 01:14:51,199 you could still stay true to yourself while also broadening 1534 01:14:51,239 --> 01:14:55,399 your appeal to more people. That's all I'm saying. That's 1535 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,119 what Zach earlier, when we were talking to Zach, He's like, 1536 01:14:58,159 --> 01:14:59,479 and how would you do that? And you told him 1537 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,920 listen to the sh That's what. And I don't think 1538 01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:04,439 save those long matches. 1539 01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,760 Speaker 3: For the pay per views. 1540 01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:10,199 Speaker 2: You're getting those either way on the pay per view, 1541 01:15:10,199 --> 01:15:11,920 you may as well make them feel more special. 1542 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,159 Speaker 3: Yeah if I And yeah, I don't want to. 1543 01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:18,840 Speaker 4: When I'm watching, I don't want a five segment match 1544 01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:22,239 that takes forty minutes, especially if it's two people that 1545 01:15:22,319 --> 01:15:25,439 I don't really care about, and it's taking up, you know, 1546 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:29,439 a quarter or more of your show. You're losing my 1547 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,239 Like it might still be on my TV, but you're 1548 01:15:32,279 --> 01:15:35,319 losing my eyeballs. At some point during that, I'm gonna 1549 01:15:35,319 --> 01:15:37,640 get up and go do something else because I'm like, well, 1550 01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,520 I know this isn't ending anytime soon, and I'm just 1551 01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,079 gonna miss a bunch of flippity floppity, high spots and 1552 01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:46,439 near falls. I know that I just need to keep 1553 01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,600 poking in and keep an eye on the time. Okay, 1554 01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,920 now I'm getting close to it should be ending. Let's 1555 01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:52,119 see how this ends. 1556 01:15:54,119 --> 01:15:56,079 Speaker 1: iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the Native 1557 01:15:56,119 --> 01:15:59,800 podcast app on your iPhone, you can unlock our commercial 1558 01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,680 free versions of our free shows. By searching PW Torch 1559 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,399 in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal grade logo that 1560 01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:08,840 says PW Torch VIP on it. Click on that, there's 1561 01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,920 some free samples of VIP shows and you can unlock 1562 01:16:12,039 --> 01:16:15,520 the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial 1563 01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,560 free versions of the free shows, by searching PW Torch 1564 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,399 in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PW Torch VIP 1565 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,720 logo and then activate your three day free trial and 1566 01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,319 after that you can become a VIP member using your 1567 01:16:26,359 --> 01:16:27,079 Apple account. 1568 01:16:27,159 --> 01:16:27,760 Speaker 2: It's that easy. 1569 01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:31,000 Speaker 1: Enjoy a streamline listening experience to our free shows and 1570 01:16:31,199 --> 01:16:33,880 unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post pay per 1571 01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,119 view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, Everything with Rich 1572 01:16:37,159 --> 01:16:39,560 and Wade, the Fix that I host with Todd Martin 1573 01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,000 and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PW 1574 01:16:43,039 --> 01:16:45,000 Torch in your Apple podcast app. 1575 01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,800 Speaker 2: Right, and then aw never makes it seem like the 1576 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,199 actual result matters. They almost never emphasize it, and it's 1577 01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:55,359 half the time it doesn't matter who wins. That is 1578 01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:56,680 the collision formula. 1579 01:16:57,399 --> 01:17:00,439 Speaker 4: But at least you get real finishes. I think that's 1580 01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:05,680 sure to what's hurting WWE is you get convoluted non finishes, 1581 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,000 interference finishes, not just on TV, but they do that 1582 01:17:09,079 --> 01:17:12,680 at their pay per views or pls as well, which 1583 01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,319 I think is alienating people too, is like why should 1584 01:17:16,359 --> 01:17:19,319 I come and spend this money for two nights at 1585 01:17:19,359 --> 01:17:23,640 SummerSlam when I can almost bet the one of the 1586 01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,960 main three matches that I'm there to see is going 1587 01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:30,840 to end up with some sort of Shenanigan's ass finish, Right. 1588 01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:32,840 Speaker 2: And sometimes you know it's coming, so you're watching the match, 1589 01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,079 but you don't buy into anything until you know so 1590 01:17:35,199 --> 01:17:37,000 and so interferes or such and such. 1591 01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:39,760 Speaker 4: Goes mostly like with a Roman match, like you know 1592 01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:42,760 damn well that at some point you're going to see 1593 01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:44,880 Jimmy or Jay or Jacob during that. 1594 01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:47,560 Speaker 2: Match, Right, Yeah, The bloodline storyline. 1595 01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:47,800 Speaker 4: Great. 1596 01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,720 Speaker 2: Yes, was an amazing run. Yes was every Roman main 1597 01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,600 event like the same thing and not very exciting. 1598 01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,840 Speaker 4: Absolutely yep at least, and then I can already almost 1599 01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,840 guarantee the Cody Punk match. 1600 01:18:00,399 --> 01:18:03,560 Speaker 3: Sammy's gonna yeah, here's the thing show up at some point. 1601 01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,399 Speaker 2: If that match was on a e W, you wouldn't 1602 01:18:06,399 --> 01:18:08,800 even you would almost be certain there would be doterferirit. 1603 01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,159 You would get a straight match with a straight finish here. 1604 01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:13,680 I know there's a chance of that happening, but I 1605 01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,439 will not be surprised if there's like three reddings. 1606 01:18:17,079 --> 01:18:19,520 Speaker 4: I think that I'll make a prediction now, and this 1607 01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:24,119 is gonna be for parportuity on on this, it's gonna 1608 01:18:24,119 --> 01:18:27,239 be Sammy, and that's gonna be the return of Ko 1609 01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:31,000 and they're gonna come back. They're gonna schmas finish that, 1610 01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,000 and I think that you see some sort of a 1611 01:18:34,119 --> 01:18:38,600 faction with Kevin Owens, Sammy, possibly Johnny Gargano, and we're 1612 01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,119 gonna get a non finish. 1613 01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:42,439 Speaker 2: I love Koe, He's one of my favorite performers period. 1614 01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,279 I will still if that match ends that way. 1615 01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:47,560 Speaker 4: I mean too, I'll be happy to see him back, 1616 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,279 but pissed off if that's how they did it. 1617 01:18:49,479 --> 01:18:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't I don't mind that, although 1618 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,359 I'll put it on the record hopefully it doesn't age well. 1619 01:18:54,399 --> 01:18:56,479 I'm concerned. You're probably exactly right. 1620 01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,640 Speaker 4: And the thing is is you could still do that 1621 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:03,000 without interfering with the finish. You just have the finish 1622 01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:05,800 happen and you have Sammy and Ko come out and 1623 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,920 attack them both after, especially if you're gonna have it 1624 01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,960 stay face face, which there was little C's planned last 1625 01:19:14,039 --> 01:19:17,119 night that that might not be in the cards that 1626 01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:20,119 it stays face faced, but Cody and Punk, But yeah, 1627 01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:22,840 you just have them have the match and then you 1628 01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:27,720 have all the bullshit gaga after the finish. Let's see 1629 01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,359 who the best of these two are. Then let them 1630 01:19:30,399 --> 01:19:33,640 come in and do their bullshit and start making, you know, 1631 01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:37,279 building to the next thing without messing up the match. 1632 01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,159 Speaker 2: But if you mess up the finish, nobody has to lose. 1633 01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:43,720 Nobody ever has to lose. In ww ever, I'll they care. 1634 01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:44,399 Speaker 3: About T ball? 1635 01:19:45,039 --> 01:19:48,479 Speaker 4: Is this t ball? Because I know this. I coached 1636 01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,239 T ball many years ago. You know, my son just 1637 01:19:51,279 --> 01:19:53,960 turned thirty one. I coached his first key ball team 1638 01:19:53,960 --> 01:19:55,840 when he was four, and I remember when I went 1639 01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,319 and picked up the equipment and everything, and they go, 1640 01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:01,880 we don't keep score here, it's I go, you don't 1641 01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,359 keep score? I do, I said, because I'm going to 1642 01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:08,680 teach these kids about winning, but I'm also going to 1643 01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,920 teach them how to lose. You're not doing them a 1644 01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:15,319 favor by saying everybody's the same and if you if 1645 01:20:15,359 --> 01:20:17,840 nobody ever wins or loses, then what the hell are you? 1646 01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:19,800 Speaker 3: Why are we even watching? 1647 01:20:20,239 --> 01:20:24,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a concern about SummerSlam. Although we were 1648 01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:25,199 talking about. 1649 01:20:25,239 --> 01:20:28,720 Speaker 4: It's yeah, oh well, all these things are why I 1650 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:30,319 think that less people are coming. 1651 01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:33,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to argue with that, and butt. 1652 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,119 Speaker 3: By a thousand cuts. 1653 01:20:35,159 --> 01:20:38,520 Speaker 2: It is, and we know that there's also like extenuating circumstances. 1654 01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,880 The economy, travel and everything. 1655 01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:42,159 Speaker 4: Is also problems. 1656 01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:44,479 Speaker 2: But it's problems both companies are chilling with ye. 1657 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,520 Speaker 3: I know, I don't want to leave the country. 1658 01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,199 Speaker 2: Right and at times I don't want to be in 1659 01:20:49,239 --> 01:20:54,319 the country either. It's a real weird space too. Trump 1660 01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:59,399 hit again, so again audio issues will happen. So I 1661 01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,880 think as far as worse or better is concerned, it 1662 01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:06,560 is objective SummerSlam is doing worse. It is doing worse. 1663 01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,720 But the actually only did like twenty nine thousand last 1664 01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:10,600 year and they're at thirty thousand this year forro In, 1665 01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:12,880 So yeah, I mean doing better. 1666 01:21:13,279 --> 01:21:15,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a push. It's a push right at. 1667 01:21:15,399 --> 01:21:16,720 Speaker 3: The same you know. 1668 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,840 Speaker 4: And I firmly believe that if they were at a 1669 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,479 different venue that they probably would have sold even a 1670 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:24,199 little bit better. 1671 01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:25,199 Speaker 2: I could see that. 1672 01:21:25,399 --> 01:21:29,119 Speaker 4: Aw I think that that's hurting them. I think that's 1673 01:21:29,159 --> 01:21:32,079 the number one factor. Is it being out of the 1674 01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:35,439 country and the third time it's the same place in 1675 01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:36,159 four years. 1676 01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:38,000 Speaker 3: I think that's that's the main. 1677 01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:41,319 Speaker 4: Factors, because I think overall the product, like the U 1678 01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:44,960 from a it's not I don't think it's a week 1679 01:21:45,039 --> 01:21:48,399 to week programming of why the pay per view because 1680 01:21:48,399 --> 01:21:50,560 they normally dropped very very well at all their pay 1681 01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:54,039 per views, which is really really crazy, like that you 1682 01:21:54,039 --> 01:21:57,960 are only getting fifteen hundred people for a dynamite and 1683 01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,920 then I'll get eleven thousand for the paper you when 1684 01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:06,800 technically you're getting probably better value for your money at 1685 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,239 a dynamite. 1686 01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:08,880 Speaker 2: Right, there's gonna be great. 1687 01:22:09,199 --> 01:22:12,640 Speaker 4: Get him, just as good quality matches at a dynamite 1688 01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:14,000 is what you get on pay per view. 1689 01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,279 Speaker 3: So I just that's if I could put my finger. 1690 01:22:18,359 --> 01:22:21,560 Speaker 4: I'm sure if Tony could put his finger on, what's 1691 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,600 not translating from we sell our pay per views really well? 1692 01:22:26,279 --> 01:22:26,960 Speaker 3: Why can't I. 1693 01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,000 Speaker 4: Get people to come to my weekly television? If he 1694 01:22:30,039 --> 01:22:32,800 could figure that out? But I guess I'm not smart 1695 01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:36,680 enough because I don't know. Because that that's unexplainable to me. 1696 01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:40,079 Because their tickets are so affordable compared to the alterna. 1697 01:22:40,199 --> 01:22:43,720 They're doing everything right as an alternative, but it's not 1698 01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,760 what I know what it is that doesn't grab it 1699 01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:50,319 for me. It's just it's not my favorite style of 1700 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,520 wrestling product. But I still enjoy it. I still watch it, 1701 01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:55,640 but I'm not going to shell out my money to 1702 01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:56,680 go see it in. 1703 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,159 Speaker 2: Person, right, And I can't put my finger on either. 1704 01:22:59,319 --> 01:23:01,880 If they're near me for a pay per view or 1705 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,880 a dynamite, I will just go. It's it's cheap enough 1706 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:07,000 that it's not like a strong I have to think 1707 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,399 about it thing. It's like twenty five bucks or fifty 1708 01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,279 bucks whatever, right, not a big deal. So I can't 1709 01:23:12,319 --> 01:23:14,840 explain why other people choose not to go, because it 1710 01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,760 is crazy there low numbers they do in major. 1711 01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:18,279 Speaker 4: Markets at times. 1712 01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy, but all right, Well. 1713 01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:23,479 Speaker 2: If we want to move towards wrapping the show up, 1714 01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,560 I think we can just kind of an overarching is 1715 01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:29,880 wwe compared to last year this time as a whole? 1716 01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:32,800 Are they doing worse or better? Adam, I'm curious how 1717 01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,199 you feel about just on the whole, I mean, we 1718 01:23:35,239 --> 01:23:35,600 did the. 1719 01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:38,039 Speaker 3: I think they're worse. I think they're worse. 1720 01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:39,840 Speaker 2: I think they are too. They are on a little 1721 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:43,239 bit of a downswing, yep, for sure. Yeah. And then 1722 01:23:43,279 --> 01:23:45,760 if we do the same thing for ae W from 1723 01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,079 say just all in last year to how we're heading 1724 01:23:48,079 --> 01:23:49,960 towards all end this year, how do you feel about that? 1725 01:23:50,039 --> 01:23:52,079 Speaker 4: I'll give them a I'm going to give them a 1726 01:23:52,199 --> 01:23:56,119 slight better which might surprise you. And I'll say this, 1727 01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:58,880 I think it would have been a more enthusiastic. 1728 01:23:59,239 --> 01:24:00,600 Speaker 3: The last two and a half. 1729 01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,800 Speaker 4: Months hurt their momentum a little bit because for me, 1730 01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:09,000 some of the decisions in the booking have been headscratched, 1731 01:24:09,079 --> 01:24:11,640 Like the whole Derby. You were on such a role 1732 01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:15,359 with MJF Like he was compelling week to week like 1733 01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,680 and the Derby thing just kind of like was weird 1734 01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:21,560 to me to stop that momentum just to give it 1735 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,720 back to him a few weeks later that didn't just 1736 01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:29,920 have him lose it again to Kenny. Like that part's 1737 01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:33,119 taking me where I'm a little bit more down on 1738 01:24:33,159 --> 01:24:36,399 the product right now, But I think overall they've been 1739 01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:40,079 on an upswing, and I'll say they're better going into 1740 01:24:40,279 --> 01:24:42,439 their big event than what WW is. 1741 01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:44,760 Speaker 2: I have to agree because last year about this time, 1742 01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,479 we were in the death writer's storyline that had been 1743 01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:48,800 going on. 1744 01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Atlantics. 1745 01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:55,399 Speaker 2: We're definitely in a better place I think for AW 1746 01:24:56,399 --> 01:24:58,359 and yeah, well, how do you feel about wrestling as 1747 01:24:58,359 --> 01:25:00,399 a whole, Adam? Just to bring it all the way 1748 01:25:00,399 --> 01:25:00,880 to the top. 1749 01:25:01,039 --> 01:25:04,399 Speaker 4: Of course, it's worse than it was last year. I 1750 01:25:04,399 --> 01:25:08,680 think it's it's worse for me, but there are glimmers 1751 01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:10,840 of hope in both companies that I think that it 1752 01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:17,039 can go back on an upswing with better management and booking. 1753 01:25:17,399 --> 01:25:19,680 I will never blame the talent. The talent worked their 1754 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:22,000 ass off there. You can only do what they can 1755 01:25:22,039 --> 01:25:23,000 do with what they're giving. 1756 01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think that pretty much wraps up the 1757 01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:28,680 show for today. I agree with that him. I am 1758 01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,359 like less interested in wrestling in general at this moment, 1759 01:25:31,399 --> 01:25:33,560 but it's so close, like one thing could happen and 1760 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:35,000 it could just spark a fire and I could just 1761 01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,239 be like way into it again. So here's hoping for that. 1762 01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:41,159 I would like to thank Adam for joining me for 1763 01:25:41,279 --> 01:25:42,880 this episode of Worse or Better. 1764 01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:44,800 Speaker 3: Adam, thank you so much for having me. 1765 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,000 Speaker 4: Josh, I really appreciate the opportunity, and thank you to 1766 01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,640 everybody that's gonna listen and keep listening to Josh give 1767 01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:55,199 it a thumbs up and all that stuff, and just 1768 01:25:55,279 --> 01:25:59,560 keep supporting the torch. Keep stay vip and I'll hear 1769 01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:01,560 you all die on the road. Thanks Josh. 1770 01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:05,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Otherwise, like Adam said, go vip that's pwshorts 1771 01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:08,000 dot com slash go vip or I think there's a 1772 01:26:08,119 --> 01:26:09,560 va you know what, Just go to there that takes 1773 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,640 you to the thing. And hopefully Stephanie will be back 1774 01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:14,920 next week. She has assured me she would, and we'll 1775 01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,000 go back to our aw pay per view model conversation, 1776 01:26:18,039 --> 01:26:19,800 which is actually related to what we talk that's actually 1777 01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,039 kind of a middle point for the last episode. In 1778 01:26:22,079 --> 01:26:24,560 the next episode. So I want to thank Adam again 1779 01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,319 and I want to tell everybody help thanks for listening. 1780 01:26:27,399 --> 01:26:29,600 And have a good one and at least half of 1781 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,039 us will talk to you next week. 1782 01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:38,920 Speaker 3: Bye, everybody. 1783 01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,079 Speaker 1: Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our 1784 01:26:44,119 --> 01:26:48,279 show's commercial free a nice streamline listening experience. Pw torch 1785 01:26:48,359 --> 01:26:51,279 dot com slash go vip for full details on a 1786 01:26:51,279 --> 01:26:54,520 commercial free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, 1787 01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:57,600 you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups 1788 01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,600 of shows by theme, and also unlock nearly four decades 1789 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:04,119 of archives and access our ad free website with VP 1790 01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:07,920 exclusive content. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. Your 1791 01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,600 time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we 1792 01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:13,079 offer VIP membership. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. 1793 01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:17,479 You can participate in the Waydkeller prog Wrestling podcast by 1794 01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,960 emailing your question or topic to Weadkeller Podcast at gmail 1795 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,199 dot com. 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We're compatible with Patreons, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 1824 01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:47,399 and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. 1825 01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:50,199 You also stream directly from our ad free VIP website, 1826 01:28:50,199 --> 01:28:52,720 the Nicky's Club waiting for you every week at pw 1827 01:28:52,720 --> 01:28:57,560 Torch vip. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial 1828 01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,920 free versions of all of your favorite wede color p 1829 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,239 podc in PW torch daily casts on Spotify. Just go 1830 01:29:03,279 --> 01:29:07,439 to patreon dot com search pw Torch and subscribe to 1831 01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:09,640 a VIP membership tier. You get a seven day free 1832 01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:11,479 trial by the way to kick the tires a bit 1833 01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,840 and see if you like the service, and then sync 1834 01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,039 it with Spotify and you can listen to commercial free 1835 01:29:16,079 --> 01:29:18,560 versions of our free shows like the Waykeller post shows, 1836 01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:21,800 the Weykeller Podcast Flagship, our Flashbacks and also the pw 1837 01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,720 Torch Daily cast lineup. Again, all commercial free and nice 1838 01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:27,640 streamline listening experience. But with third tier membership you can 1839 01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:31,119 also unlock all the VIP podcasts including Everything with Rich 1840 01:29:31,159 --> 01:29:32,760 and Wade, to Fix with Todd Martin that I host 1841 01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,960 with Todd every week, The Wadkeller news bulletins, post pay 1842 01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:39,640 per view roundtables, and an array of other VIP exclusive 1843 01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:43,199 podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. 1844 01:29:43,439 --> 01:29:47,600 Go to Patreon and search pw Torch and subscribe and 1845 01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,800 sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. 1846 01:29:51,079 --> 01:29:54,279 Either way works. Go to Patreon and start your seven 1847 01:29:54,359 --> 01:29:57,600 day free trial. If you're listening to us on the 1848 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,119 Apple podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that 1849 01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:02,199 allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment 1850 01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:04,279 to give us a five star rating. It really helps 1851 01:30:04,359 --> 01:30:06,880 us in the algorithm and helps them know that you 1852 01:30:07,039 --> 01:30:09,479 recommend us to others. Just look for a place to 1853 01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:11,840 rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1854 01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:14,039 you're listening to our shows, and please click that five 1855 01:30:14,079 --> 01:30:16,399 star rating, and of course, thank you so much for listening. 1856 01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,279 A pwe Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add 1857 01:30:20,279 --> 01:30:22,000 free access to these shows and a ton of other 1858 01:30:22,079 --> 01:30:24,720 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 1859 01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:28,399 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 1860 01:30:28,399 --> 01:30:31,359 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 1861 01:30:31,399 --> 01:30:34,159 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 1862 01:30:34,199 --> 01:30:37,680 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 1863 01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,399 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 1864 01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:44,319 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 1865 01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:46,640 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 1866 01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:51,119 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 1867 01:30:51,119 --> 01:30:54,000 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 1868 01:30:54,039 --> 01:30:57,760 approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive into 1869 01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,119 our post pay per view roundtables are covered just some 1870 01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:03,279 of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form 1871 01:31:03,359 --> 01:31:07,479 interviews and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. 1872 01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,319 PW torch dot com slash go vip. We have a 1873 01:31:11,319 --> 01:31:13,000 streamline sign up for me and you can pay with 1874 01:31:13,039 --> 01:31:15,760 PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card. 1875 01:31:16,039 --> 01:31:17,800 In one or two minutes from right now, you can 1876 01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:20,439 be a VIP member and diving into our library. PW 1877 01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:22,359 Torch dot com slash go vip