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Speaker 1: What is fellasichos. I am Dan Valley coming at you

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with another NBA twenty twenty five twenty twenty six season

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look ahead. We're onto the Phoenix Suns, which means I

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have the distinct pleasure of being joined by the Timeline

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podcast Fellas. We have we have Mike V. Hill. I

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almost said Sam v Hill. That would have been funny.

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Mike V. Hill at protected pick on the socials, spelled

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exactly as it sounds, and Sam Cooper at I'm just

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gonna say Scooper hoops because it sounds cooler. That's also

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spelled exactly as it sounds. Guys, welcome back, Thank you

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for coming back. How the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Happy to be here, man, Happy to be doing great.

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We love doing this every year. Dan and I don't

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blame you for mixing up our names because we've been

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doing this for so long that we've kind of morphed

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into one single personality at this point that oftentimes people

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mix us up.

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Speaker 3: So that's it's all good.

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Speaker 1: Well, I do have inside knowledge that if I ask

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you guys about Jonathan Kaminga, that would be a way

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to detach the personalities. It's true one another.

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Speaker 3: That's true. That's very true.

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Speaker 2: I think you would be wasting precious time talking about

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Jonathan Kamena this early in the podcast, but we could.

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Speaker 3: We could go there if you want. You'd separate us

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as being right which is me, and being wrong, which

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is Sam. So I appreciate. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: I was putting together as outline though, and it was

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a little depressing because I don't have like a ton

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of a great feel for how this team is gonna play.

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And I also find there's too much like Antell early

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stuff to talk about. I have to start here, though,

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and I'll throw it to you first, Mike, what you

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like before getting into the offseason, nitty gritty like, how

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are you going to remember this most recent era of

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Suns basketball looking basically from them, like pivoting away from

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that core that made the finals to what just happened?

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Speaker 3: You know, It's a great place to start, and it's

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it's kind of fun because I was thinking about this

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podcast this morning, preparing to come on with you and

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thinking back in the years that we've been on this podcast,

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because we've done this every year with you, basically I

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think since the year before Chris Paul was traded for

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the Suns, if I'm not mistaken, And famously I was

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on the podcast with you recording live when the Chris

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Paul trade happened. One year, we had to stop the

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podcast and restart and added Chris Paul section because Chris

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Paul wasn't on the Suns yet. So if you look

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back into all of those seasons, there was a season

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of the young team sort of putting it all together.

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There was the Chris Paul years, they made it to

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the NBA Finals, they traded for Kevin Durant, and now

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we're here and like, I don't know, like the last

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few years two and a half years really with Kevin

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Durant on the team I would describe as completely miserable

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and not exciting in any way. And it sort of

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started with, you know, Matt Ishbia buying the team and

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Robert Sarver being gone, which was a very exciting moment.

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Robert Sarver famously a terrible owner who did not invest

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in the team at all. Matt Ashbia comes here willing

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to invest, but the team has gotten worse every year

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since he's on the team, and it's hard to look

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at anything but that. I really just want them to

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be good again while Devin Booker is in his prime.

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Speaker 1: I will say Matt Ashbia did have one of the

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all time great rebukes of any offseason to where ESPN

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had the Sons ranked wherever in there. I don't remember

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what the rankings were. It wasn't the future ranks. It

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was too early for that. And he responded by saying, well,

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they had us like as it being a good team

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last year and we were terrible.

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Speaker 3: The expert said we'd be good and they were wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty embarrassing. Look, Matt is going to

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be a loud owner and he's going to embarrass us

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a lot. But he also gave us two dollars hot

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dogs and free Sons games on Network TV, so shout

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out to him for that.

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Speaker 1: How many carbon credits did he purchase, though, I think

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is the real question.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that Tias Jones deal. Let's just

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take a look at that. Sam.

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Speaker 1: When you kind of look back on this, like just

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how the Son's got to this point, do you view

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any sort of one move or one moment as like

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the cardinal sin of what happened? Or is this just

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the result of stuff being stockpiled on top of each

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other and that exacerbates the situation.

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Speaker 4: Cardinal Sin, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'm tempted to point my finger at

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the Bradley Beal acquisition obviously, because i think if there's

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anything we've all learned from that in particular, it's that

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you just don't trade for a guy with an no

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trade clause. You just do not do it unless that

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guy is whatever their generational equivalent of Lebron James is right,

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like you just you don't do it. And I will

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never be in support of anything like that again. But

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things were already trending downwards with the Kevin Durant trade

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in the first place. They just simply and again it

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comes down to Madishbia coming in and James Jones did

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not want to give up the entire farm for Kevin Durant,

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so to speak. And it's be a leaned his entire

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weight on the button and said, no, we're gonna We're

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gonna do it. We're gonna give up Michael Bridges and

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Cam Johnson and you know, eight first round picks or

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four first round picks or whatever. So yeah, it's a

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little bit difficult to dissect even with hindsight, though, because

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we do understand that, Like, while it was fun that

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the Sons were in the finals, we all had a

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great time there, they were a ticking time bomb. Chris

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Paul was getting older. DeAndre Ayton was, you know, just

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largely an oral less, sauceless player who was like, you know,

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just bound to regress at some point, and so they

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always had to do something. And that's why, you know,

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I did not even remotely enjoy the Kevin Durant experience

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with the Suns, but I understood the temptation that they

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had to do something. The ultimately, the KD trade was

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the start of it, and then the Beal trade was

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the nail in the coffin.

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Speaker 4: They were firmly screwed at that point.

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Speaker 1: Actually, this is not on the outline. How did you too,

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I don't know how closely you followed the reaction to

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Michel Bridges's extension with the Knicks. What did did you

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guys have any like, how did you feel about him

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getting one hundred and fifty million dollar extension? Oh, it's

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not the player that he is now.

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Speaker 3: When he was traded off of the Suns for Kevin Durant.

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The first thing that Devin Booker said about it was

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he'll be a free agent in twenty twenty seven. That's

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what Devin Booker said about Michael Bridges, implying that he

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could come back to the Phoenix Suns. And that was

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actually my first thought about that extension. I was like, well,

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I guess not. Which. Of course, good players never reached

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free agency anymore. That's just kind of where we're at,

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you know, with the way the NBA works. But I don't,

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you know, like I think he was. I think he

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was pretty good for the Knicks last year. It is

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sort of the thing when I think about Michel Bridges

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and the reaction that he gets from Knicks fans, I

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think that I understand why Devin Booker wants to stay

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with one team his entire career, because the team that

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you're drafting that no team will ever love you like

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the team that you're drafted to, and like because you

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are compared to what you were traded for on teams

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that you're on. So like Knicks fans, no matter how

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good he's going to be on that team, they're going

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to think, what about all those picks that we gave

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up for him? How good would those mystery box players be?

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And I think that's kind of the reaction that they're

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going to get, you know, for the next keeping that

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team together in this the way that this Eastern Conference

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is worth it. And you know, I think even even

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on that huge extension he got, he's still going to

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be a tradable contract. If they do decide to go

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a different way, I'm happy for him. The only NBA

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player that follows me on Twitter is Michail Bridges, so

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I'm happy for him.

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Speaker 1: I was surprised. I think Knicks fans are generally positive

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about it. I was surprised at a lot of the

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national response because he's currently projected to be the fifty

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first highest paid player in the NBA when that extension

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kicks in, and I just think that's fine. I wasn't

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it feels impressed with right, I wasn't impressed with his

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defense last year, and if you were like, but he

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did turn it on at some point, And also if

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you were expecting him to ever be like a tried

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and true number two option, like you were asking him

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to be something that he's not supposed to be either.

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So I was just surprised that it seemed like so

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many people nationally thought it was just bad business, and

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I was like, I think that's fine. Even if it's

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not a bargain, it feels like it's fine. I guess

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we can continue talking about the Suns. Sam, how did

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you feel about the Kevin Durant trade, And just to

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be clear, the one where he was sent to the Rockets,

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not the Suns.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, look, we all wanted a little bit more,

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but you understand where the market was. I think that

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was the initial reaction. Like when I was reading back,

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you know, Jaylen, what was it, Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks.

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Obviously the pick that became Kaman Malawach, but I think

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a lot of us were like, not even you know,

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not even Cam Whitmore, not even Reed Shepherd would have

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been too much. But like I've always you know, I

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was like, they won't even play that guy. He doesn't

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even play. You took him top five, you have zero

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minutes for him, and we can't you know, we can't ask.

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But no, I understand, like why the return was what

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it was. I think the Rockets are going to be

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just a super interesting team to follow this year. As

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an aside, and I will sort of be a little

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bit of a hater for them definitely, but like you know,

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just mildly, I think they're gonna be interesting to watch.

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I have all of the Sun's Rockets games on my

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calendar circled where I'm sure we're gonna get spanked by

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twenty plus points every time, but it's gonna be a

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fun time regardless. So Malawatch was, I know you have

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questions about Kamal Malowach. I'm sure coming you know later on,

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but it's it's like almost unfair to him now how

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much rests on his shoulders and being the centerpiece of

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that trade return if as I don't suspect he can.

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Jalen Green is not like a true number two next

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to Devin Booker, and I think there are other ways

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that you could hope that if Jalen Green himself is

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not a number two, maybe he can play himself into

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being a trade piece that nets you a true number two. Right,

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So that's that might be what they're thinking with Jalen Green.

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But otherwise, Malowatch needs to be on unfortunately a little

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bit of an accelerated timeline if you're going to make

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this work while Devin Booker is still a son. So

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I have a lot of faith in Malowatch. I know

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we're going to talk about him later, but also he's

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like one of the most raw prospects in this draft class,

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so it's a little tough for him.

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Speaker 1: Do we think Mike die Katie knows he's a vibes

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killer at this point, he has to know people thinks that.

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But do you think, like within.

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Speaker 4: He absolutely knows.

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Speaker 2: I am not I am not Mike, I am not Mike,

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but I'm answering for Mike. Kevin Durant knows exactly what

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people think about him, and everything he's ever seen motivated

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by his insecurity.

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Speaker 3: It is all motivated by his insecurity.

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Speaker 1: I think, oh, go ahead. I was just gonna say,

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I'm wondering if there's like a self awareness there to

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where he could admit to himself like, yeah, I've kind

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of submarine.

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Speaker 3: The culture of like three or four teams.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: I think the thing about KD and I think this

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is true. I don't even think he'd be wrong about this.

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That he would say is that all his teammates like him.

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And I think that's true. I think that, you know,

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regardless of all the places he's gone and how badly

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it's gone, in a bunch of those places, Like, I

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don't think Devin Booker dislikes Kevin Durant in any way.

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I think they're probably still going to be close friends

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after this, and for KD, those relationships are probably what

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matters to him the most. You know, It's not like

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he can say the same about every coach he's had,

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because I think he's had seven or eight since he's

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left the Warriors. You know, coach has fired every year

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he's on a team essentially when he's on that team,

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But the players themselves seem to like him, so I

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think he thinks of that as like some sort of

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saving grace for him, which I think, you know, there's

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some fairness to that, but overall, I think, not just

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with the actual on court product, the fan experience got

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a lot worse too. When he was trolling fans online

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every day, which is his right. Don't get me wrong,

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He's allowed to do that, but it's like, every day

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you have to see the star player on your team

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arguing with Suns fans online, even if they are some

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of the dumber ones it is, it's a little miserable

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to watch.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what was so frustrating for a lot

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of not just Suns fans, but honestly kd stands too.

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Is that this is a guy who would have, maybe

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for every ten adoring kd Stands who are just begging

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online for some sort of validation from their demigod or whatever.

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You know, Kevin Durant would be able to find the

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one guy, the one person in the atmosphere, the environment

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who is criticizing him, and then that is always the

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person that he would quote, tweet, you know.

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Speaker 4: Like you're right.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely his right to conduct his business on

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social media as he sees fit, but he made the

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space a lot more toxic just by focusing on the toxicity.

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He would seek out the negativity, maybe because he feels

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it makes him a better player, but that is always

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the stuff he would choose to highlight, and he simply

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didn't have to.

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Speaker 1: I will say, in his defense and any NBA players defense,

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if I had a following that huge, I would be

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tempted to search, because I'm just a massa chiss, so

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I'd be tempted to search my own name, and I

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don't know if I could withhold. I don't know how

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people deal with criticism at that scale, or even a

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slightly smaller scale of it.

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Speaker 3: I know what I do. I just ignore any of it.

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You pretend it doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: That's like that's a superhuman strength. Yeah, like that's a

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superhero trade. If you could just ignore it, I I

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do a better job of not responding to it now.

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But there are absolutely random commenters or people I mentioned.

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I won't say anything, but they will ruin like a

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couple hours of my.

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Speaker 4: Debt right right now.

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Speaker 2: That's why podcasters truly are our strongest soldiers.

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Speaker 3: And one of them is the coach of the Lakers.

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You never know the heights that we could reach. That's true, Mike.

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Speaker 1: How did you feel about the and I know how

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you feel, but I'm asking you for the people that don't.

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How did you feel about the decision to do the

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buy out and stretch with Bradley beal Bad.

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Speaker 3: I feel badly about that. I don't think that it

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was a good idea. I understand the benefits to it.

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I think that there's monetary benefits. I think, you know,

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ultimately the largest benefit is that saves MATA should be

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a ton of money. But just ultimately getting on them

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under the second apron is understandable as well. But if

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there was any other way to do it that they

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turned down because of the ease of just you know,

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waving and stretching him, then it was a mistake. Ultimately,

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it was a mistake. I understand that sometimes conceptually, like

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trading guys for less salary is not always possible. It

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takes other teams to agree to that. So if that

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was completely unavailable to them, then I understand the idea

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of getting to this point, but I would have preferred

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to keep him on the team until he was an

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expiring contract. I think there was a way out of

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this KD. Bradley Beal mess, which was free agency in

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twenty twenty seven, like just having a clean cap sheet

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outside of Devin Booker's deal that is completely gone. It's

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just gone. Now. Every single margin move has to work

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out in order for the team to be good with

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Devin Booker on it because of that, Like there was

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a world where you find a way to do something

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with cap space in the future, and I just don't.

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He's not a huge fan of that, although I you know,

320
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like there's defense for it. Don't get me wrong, there's

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understandable reasons. I just wish that there was any other

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way to get him off the team. One thing I

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will say to that, though grateful I never have to

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watch him play basketball again, that's one thing I will say.

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Did not enjoying the Bradley bal experience at all, and

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you know I don't. I'm not gonna miss watching him play.

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Speaker 4: Let's be honest.

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Speaker 2: It would have been a massive distraction that they simply

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felt they could not afford if Bradley Beal was still

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on the team because they were unable to find a

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trade partner, and they would have had to I don't know,

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it would have been a thing at media day, throughout

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training camp. They may have had to send him home.

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They certainly wouldn't have wanted to play him when they've

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just now invested a lot in Jalen Green. I get it,

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Like I understand, you're within your right to criticize their

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cap management and all that, and yes, it's going to

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be annoying to have to deal with for the next

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five years. But I am so relieved that Bradley Beal

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is no longer a member of the Phoenix Suns in

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any way, shape or form. In spite of my criticisms

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about Kevin Durant, at least I've always been able to

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wreck recognize his like godly talents, his you know, his

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generational talent. Bradley Beal. I just view as as a loser.

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I mean, he's just a career loser. And that's you're laughing, Dan,

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but like really the way that the way you don't

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understand unless you've been there, how miserable the last two

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and a half years have been for Suns fans. It's

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they has just been the most miserable. And I've watched

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and I've covered worst teams from a record perspective, but

351
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you look up the definition of aurallests in the textbook.

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This was an oral less era of Sons basketball. They

353
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were miserable to watch. They played with absolutely no pace,

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no movement on offense, no effort on defense. And we're

355
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just so relieved that both of these guys are gone.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, I get the relief aspect of it. But as

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you point out, like the cat management stuff is tough

358
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to get around, because I doubt they're very close to

359
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docking attacks entirely. Now, I doubt there's a way to

360
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do that without going this direction, but they certainly could

361
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have gotten out of the second apron and so That's

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why I just view it as sort of a cheap

363
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out if your manage being your claiming you'll pay whatever,

364
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like you could have gotten out of the set We're

365
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avoided the second apron and avoided like starting those the

366
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clocks on your like draft picks. You could have avoided

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that without having this massive Bradley Beal hit on the books,

368
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and you could have just said, hey, I'll pay him

369
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for two years to not play basketball. Then if he's

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not gonna agree to a trade somewhere, assuming they could

371
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even find one. I think that's sort of right, like

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because Milwaukee did what they did with Dame to actively

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like get somebody, and the Suns just did it to

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save money. And for someone who has, like Mike said before,

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they've invested a lot in the team, They've spent a

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lot of money. Like, I don't know, this just kind

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of feels like a week move by them. I get

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the addition by subtraction, especially when it comes to their

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culture and as you guys already said, Jalen Green is

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now on the roster, but I just like, what is

381
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the Like, I just don't know what message this sends

382
00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:57,799
to your fans about the next half decade. When you

383
00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:00,440
have that money on the books, it says, like I did,

384
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:03,400
there's not going to be cap space anytime soon. And

385
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,200
I know stars changed teams via free agency anymore. Don't

386
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,359
change teams via free agency more excuse me, but you

387
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,039
don't have trade assets to go out and make those

388
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:14,440
types of trades. So it just felt like a really

389
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,839
weak move by them. And that's just sort of where

390
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:19,000
I land. And I understand there's probably no perfect solution,

391
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,720
but that's the perils of trading for someone that has

392
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,440
a no trade class ever. Again, Sam, what do you

393
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,480
make of the regime change in the front office and

394
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,240
how they went about hiring Brian Gregory? Uh?

395
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Speaker 2: Not great man, you're hitting us with the hard questions. Look,

396
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:40,839
you know, for anyone who doesn't know, maybe doesn't follow

397
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,440
the team as closely. Matt Ishbia has this close connection

398
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,960
to Michigan State, and it's become I think it started

399
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,039
as a joke, but is also just a fact at

400
00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:54,480
this point that he has heavily prioritized people and interview

401
00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:59,599
processes throughout the organization who share that that Michigan State

402
00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:02,480
background with him. And as we look at Brian Gregory,

403
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,240
who's now the GM of the team and was at

404
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,480
Michigan State with that Ishbia. It's just not someone who

405
00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:12,160
would have gotten this job from any other team. He

406
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,839
has a twenty years experience as a college coach, but

407
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,799
not a particularly successful one, you know, like a lot

408
00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:20,759
of mid major programs that maybe struggle to recruit, struggle

409
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:24,559
to make NCAA tournaments, that sort of thing, and just

410
00:19:24,599 --> 00:19:27,559
doesn't have NBA front office experience. And yet he's now

411
00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:32,559
the general manager of the Suns. And it sucks, frankly,

412
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,160
but you know, I'm still willing to give him a chance.

413
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,519
It's more so just that we recognize that, you know.

414
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,480
I think what's interesting about Ishbia is, in spite of

415
00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:45,720
the fact that he has been at the core of

416
00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,039
every decision made by the Suns over the two and

417
00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:51,279
a half years since he's acquired the team, he has

418
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,799
largely tried to distance himself from, you know, that level

419
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:57,319
of accountability, saying that like the Kevin Durant trade, the

420
00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,359
Bradley Beal trade weren't necessarily his ideas. Try to pawn

421
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,279
that off on other people in the organization when you

422
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:06,880
make when you make decisions like this to hire people

423
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,359
who just don't deserve the jobs that they're in. You

424
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,160
can't distance yourself from that accountability anymore. We now fully

425
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,799
understand that matt Ishbia, this is matt Ishbia's show. Every

426
00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:20,160
decision that is made is because of Matt Ishbia. It's

427
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,759
not because of Brian Gregory or anyone else, Josh Bartlestein

428
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,279
who's the CEO, or anyone else. This is matt Ishbia's decision.

429
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:29,960
And so that's fine, okay, if that is what it is. Like,

430
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,680
I understand, you spent four billion dollars on the team.

431
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,200
You want to make those decisions, but you're going to

432
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,759
get the criticism that comes with that. And you know,

433
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,680
I just hope Ishbia kind of comes around to understanding

434
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,119
that going forward, that we can all kind of see

435
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,680
through the facade. Those of us who like are used

436
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,920
to watching and covering these teams anyway, and we know

437
00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:51,039
what the situation is.

438
00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 1: Mike, how did you feel about the Jordan ott Higher.

439
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,640
I know very little about him aside from hey, he's

440
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,240
also got ties to the State.

441
00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:01,559
Speaker 3: Of Michigan, Michigan State Universe. In fact, he got his

442
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:04,039
master's degree there. But he and he was an intern

443
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,720
I believe under Tom Izzo Brian Gregory, by the way,

444
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,839
I will mention, coached Mattishbia. Like the ties are very strong.

445
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,640
He was literally an assistant coach when Matt Ashbia was

446
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,680
on that championship team at Michigan State. I think that

447
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:23,359
Jordan Ought, though the coaching search, like Brian Gregory, does

448
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,319
not have a resume that should have allowed him to

449
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,400
be a general manager in the NBA, Jordan Ought has

450
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,160
a resume that does lead to him being a head

451
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,680
coach in the NBA, even though he does have a

452
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,839
tied to Michigan State. It's loose at best, but he

453
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:41,200
he is the he was just Jamari Carroll is an

454
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,319
assistant coach for the Suns now. I will mention because

455
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,519
they met when Jordan was an assistant to Mike Budenholzer

456
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:49,960
on the Atlanta Hawks, and then he went on to

457
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,160
be at other stops with him in the future. Damari

458
00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:59,240
Carroll described Jordana as the architect of the Cleveland Cavaliers

459
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,759
offense last year, and if you watch the way the

460
00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:05,640
Cleveland Cavaliers played offense last year, it's a very exciting prospect.

461
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:08,920
It's a pick and roll heavy offense that has a

462
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,519
ton of off ball movement. They play fast, they play

463
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:14,079
with pace in the half court, they shoot threes, but

464
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,279
they also get to the rim. And I think they

465
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:22,039
have a guy who understands the nuances of modern NBA

466
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,920
basketball and kind of addresses all of the problems that

467
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,279
the Phoenix Suns had last year. The Sons also signed

468
00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:31,960
a player named Nigel Hayes Davis who played He was

469
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,119
the MVP of the EuroLeague Final four last year. That's

470
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,599
how they do the MVP's there, and he described Jordan

471
00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:41,759
Not as having the type of basketball tism that you

472
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,640
need to be a successful NBA coach, which not the

473
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,480
way I would describe it. But Nigel Hayes Davis's point.

474
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,759
Speaker 4: Was, like, Davis is a very funny guy.

475
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: If you yes interview with Yes, yes he is. Jordan

476
00:22:55,279 --> 00:22:57,759
Not is someone who is very, very clearly the way

477
00:22:57,759 --> 00:23:01,200
that everyone describes him, obsessed with basketball and wants to

478
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,480
understand sort of where it's going in the future, you know,

479
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,799
and I think I'm excited to see, you know, like, ultimately,

480
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,359
understanding basketball is only a small part of the job.

481
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,119
Every head coach does understand it to some extent. It's

482
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,200
about how you communicate that to your team and how

483
00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:19,119
much buy in that they have, so you know, we'll see,

484
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,319
like they don't have the personnel to be a great team,

485
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,039
but if we see them playing the right way on

486
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,319
a day to day basis, I think that's an exciting thing,

487
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,160
especially for a young coach who could be with the

488
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,279
team for a long time. So fingers crossed ultimately.

489
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: For me, I think the way he emphasized and I

490
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,279
guess that was his introductory presser, that was reading quotes

491
00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:41,599
from movement just felt really important because like that feels

492
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,920
like this team's best shot at generating rim pressure for

493
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,799
the first time since what two thousand and nineteen or

494
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:48,200
like twenty seventeen.

495
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,039
Speaker 2: I'm sure, Wow, I don't even know, Yeah, something like that.

496
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,559
Speaker 1: So like I'm more open to that, Like that felt

497
00:23:56,599 --> 00:23:58,839
like a process that was a real process. At least

498
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,720
they're they're coaching higher so but those are the toughest

499
00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:03,119
hires to judge as well as because you have to

500
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,680
see a play on the court and I don't know

501
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,680
what the personnel they have, Like, I don't know how

502
00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:08,960
much you hang on his shoulders. He is, he does

503
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,680
have a reputation. I think he got a lot of

504
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,400
that in Atlanta first player development and so like that

505
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,839
could bode well for you know, some of those internal

506
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,279
development guys that you talked about on your podcast Who

507
00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,599
Knows Good Plug, Sam. What do you make of the

508
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,680
Devin Booker extension and the reaction to it and will

509
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,359
there be limits to this dude's loyalty? I thought what

510
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,960
Mike said at the top was interesting, and I never

511
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,200
really thought of it in those terms about how he

512
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:35,359
understands why Devin Booker wants to play for one team

513
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,480
when you look at how these you know, these fans

514
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,000
that adopt you basically via trade, how they can react

515
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
when you don't perform up to snuff.

516
00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:47,319
Speaker 2: Ultimately, I don't you know. I don't know Devin Booker personally,

517
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,680
and so I don't really know, well, hold on, is

518
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,440
that true? That's true, man, I don't know the inner

519
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,599
machinations of his mind. But the extension that you're referring to,

520
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,519
I think it's important because as you know Dan, you

521
00:24:59,559 --> 00:25:03,119
know maybe better than anyone else. People don't read these days,

522
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,799
they don't really process things beyond him as well.

523
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:07,279
Speaker 1: For my livelihood, let me tell you.

524
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,039
Speaker 2: And short clips and so let's just point out the

525
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,039
fact that that was a two year one hundred and

526
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:16,480
forty five million dollar extension that Devin Booker signed, which

527
00:25:16,519 --> 00:25:19,799
does not kick in until twenty twenty eight. I think

528
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,359
the twenty twenty eight twenty twenty nine season. He has

529
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,599
a full three years left on his current deal before

530
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,720
that extension even kicks in. I think the reason that's

531
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,920
important to highlight is because I saw a lot of

532
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,559
headlines based on a factual statement, which is that like,

533
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:39,079
Devin Booker signs most lucrative extension per year ever, which

534
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,759
is technically true, but by the time that extension actually

535
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,400
kicks in, it will be the same equivalent extension or

536
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,519
even less that other guys are signing, you know, like

537
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:51,039
Jokic hasn't signed his extension yet, Jannis hasn't signed his

538
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:55,599
extension yet, Jason Tatum I think did sign or Jason

539
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,759
Tatum was on like a little bit of an earlier timeline,

540
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:00,880
you know, signing a contract extension like a couple of

541
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,519
years ago. But he will be signing an extension by

542
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:05,759
twenty twenty eight that is even more lucrative than the

543
00:26:05,759 --> 00:26:08,640
one that Devin Booker will be on. Right, So of

544
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,960
course you can have questions, is Booker going to be

545
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,319
playing at a seventy two and a half million dollar

546
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:15,240
level when he's thirty three.

547
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,319
Speaker 4: Probably not. This is just something you do.

548
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,839
Speaker 2: It's just something you have to do, and whatever you

549
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,160
know keeps the guy you know happy and in your environment,

550
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:29,000
it's worth it, and there's there's simply no alternative for

551
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:32,279
the Suns. Devin Booker is synonymous with the city of Phoenix.

552
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:35,039
At this point, you have the opportunity to potentially make

553
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:38,200
this guy a son's lifer. Maybe he gets sufficiently pissed

554
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,440
off at some point that that isn't the case, and

555
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,359
it becomes like a Damian Lillard in Portland situation where

556
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,119
he has to go try something else and fail for

557
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,920
a couple years and then he comes back. You never know,

558
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,480
but yeah, it's I have absolutely no issues with the

559
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:52,799
Booker contract extension.

560
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: I totally understand it from the team's perspective. And it's

561
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,400
also just there's like they guaranteed technically an extra one

562
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:02,440
year when you look at the player option the way

563
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,480
it moves, so they gave him the ability to guarantee

564
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,799
two years. I guess what confuses me not about the extension,

565
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,000
but it's tough to square away, like how loyal he

566
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,319
might be versus I don't believe necessarily where this team

567
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,200
is headed, but like it feels like there has to

568
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,000
be limits to his loyalty at some point or I

569
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,559
don't see this ending any other way. Then well, he's

570
00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:23,640
eventually gonna get traded. That doesn't mean you'll give him

571
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,119
the extension. Again, this is totally separate from that. So Mike,

572
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:29,559
what would need to happen not to finalize his entire

573
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:31,599
future with the team this year, but like, what does

574
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,119
a season look like in which the Sun send a

575
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,200
message to Devin Booker that says we're at least headed

576
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:40,279
in what could be the right direction from here.

577
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: It's a great question. Making the playoffs I think would

578
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,039
be really helpful, and that is I think it's an

579
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,880
uphill battle for them in this coming year. It would

580
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,839
take a pretty massive season by guys we're gonna talk

581
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,599
about soon. I'm sure Jalen Green and Mark Williams in particular.

582
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,240
If those guys can find a way to be the

583
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,839
best they've ever been next year, maybe they have some

584
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,680
small chance of that. But like, you know, like it's

585
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,759
a lot on the team to put it together and

586
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:09,799
to justify it for him. But I also think he

587
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,279
needs to play better to last year I think was

588
00:28:13,319 --> 00:28:17,359
such a disaster in so many ways. Players, so many

589
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,839
of the players on the Suns played below what they

590
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,599
could do, and it seems like the unhappiness post trade

591
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:27,839
deadline after the Suns tried to sneak trade Kevin Durant

592
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:31,759
just permeated the entire locker room and nobody really played

593
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:35,039
well beyond that trade deadline. So it's really difficult to

594
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,799
square what this season will look like to what last

595
00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:41,720
season looked like. It just nobody seemed to like Mike

596
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,119
Budenholezer either, and we were excited about that. You know,

597
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,200
twenty five and seven that's what he averaged last year,

598
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,960
twenty five points seven assists and like and I would

599
00:28:50,079 --> 00:28:52,200
call it a bad season for Devin Booker, which is

600
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:54,680
just it says where we're at with him and how

601
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,319
we view what's expected out of him. But so much

602
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,279
more of what the team is going to look like

603
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,680
rests on his shoulders. Next year. There is no Kevin

604
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:08,440
Durant anymore. He is very clearly the main leader on

605
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,079
this team and the main superstar on this team, and

606
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,359
so you know, ultimately.

607
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,759
Speaker 2: The only competent pick and roll ball handler remains to

608
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:19,880
be seen, but there's a chance that Sam.

609
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,039
Speaker 1: On one of your podcasts recently, you had said something like,

610
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:24,920
Devin Booker better play defense this year. My first thought was, like,

611
00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,200
he just posted his highest true usage for anyone who

612
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,039
just doesn't know, like it incorporates passing potential assists of

613
00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:34,640
his career and it might need to be higher this season.

614
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,680
Does Colin Gillespie? So can you expect him to be

615
00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:40,279
much better on defense? That I don't even know if

616
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:41,200
that warrants a discussion.

617
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:44,559
Speaker 2: Well, defense is so much of a vibes thing too though,

618
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,759
it's you know, and an infectious energy thing. And again

619
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:50,519
I just point to the fact that I recognize that

620
00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:52,680
much of this is a faith based argument, the addition

621
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,720
by subtraction stuff. But you look at the true miserable

622
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:59,920
expressions on the faces of every Sun's player last year,

623
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,799
the way that they played defense. It truly brought them

624
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,640
no joy, and it brought me no joy to watch

625
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,200
any of them try to play defense. That you hope

626
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,519
that a lot of this injection of youth and energy

627
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:12,119
that the Suns and length by the way, too, that

628
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,000
was a big thing we kind of didn't touch on

629
00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:16,440
with Jordan not is. Yes, he wants to play fast,

630
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:18,440
he wants to play with movement. But the other thing

631
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,039
they're trying to steal from Cleveland and many other teams

632
00:30:21,079 --> 00:30:23,680
are doing this around the league, but recognizing that it's

633
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,240
not twenty fifteen anymore. You can't be the small ball

634
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:29,119
Warriors and still win anymore. You actually need to be

635
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,480
big at many positions. And with the guys the Suns

636
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,799
brought in this summer, they're actually projected. You know, their

637
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:38,920
starting lineup is a bit of a problem, and I'm

638
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,119
sure we'll get there too, but they can implement lineups

639
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,599
that are absolutely huge in their front court while still

640
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,880
trying to play fast and maybe shoot a lot of threes.

641
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:50,160
And I think that's, you know, something they're trying to steal,

642
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:54,359
in particular from Cleveland. So, yeah, Devin Booker needs to

643
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:57,559
play defense. Look, I know it's not fair, but he

644
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,119
signed up for.

645
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: Trying to absolve him of playing defense, to be clear,

646
00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:03,759
I just it feels like there's even more offensive responsibility

647
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:05,319
on his shoulders, and so there is.

648
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: But he helped seventy million dollars, you got it. You know,

649
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,640
you got to play both sides, buddy.

650
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: Sorry, Mike, what does the optimal version of Jalen Green

651
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:17,480
look like on this team? And how confident are you

652
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:19,640
that he has the ability to actualize it.

653
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm uh, you know what I should ask you? This

654
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:26,119
is there like a I'm as I talk, I'm not

655
00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:27,480
going to put you on the spot right away, but

656
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,839
as I talk, try and think about what the what

657
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,680
a good optimal Jalen Green comp is in a player, Like,

658
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,759
think about a player that you could compare what that

659
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,359
is to if you have any idea, because being struggling

660
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,680
I'm struggling with Vien Levigne is interesting.

661
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 4: I think I brought that up.

662
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,799
Speaker 3: Did I bring that one up on a pods? Possibly?

663
00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:47,640
Like I want it to be like Derek White, you know,

664
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,880
like I like, I want I just want. I want

665
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,799
him to try on defense, and I want him to

666
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:55,720
shoot ten or eleven threes a game, and I and

667
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,240
and just get to the rim. If you cut out

668
00:31:57,319 --> 00:31:59,559
the entirely the mid range shots or you know, there's

669
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:01,680
a version of him playing well where he develops a

670
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,119
mid range shot, but he's one of the worst mid

671
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,680
range shooters in the NBA. But if he just focuses

672
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,640
on getting to the rim and shooting threes. I think

673
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,839
that's the best. The Suns described him as the point

674
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:14,319
guard through Sean Schereniya, so like they're clearly not thinking

675
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:15,240
the same way as me.

676
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: I don't think.

677
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: I still kind of I know you're saying that, maybe

678
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,920
you're right, but I still sort of reject the veracity

679
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,680
of that report. I think maybe he's going to guard

680
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,839
point guards, but I don't think he's gonna be their

681
00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:26,759
primary ball handler.

682
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:27,839
Speaker 3: We'll see to.

683
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:30,519
Speaker 1: Be fair and like sort of to Mike's point, like

684
00:32:30,599 --> 00:32:33,160
the first like year year and a half in Houston,

685
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,519
like that was a different level of defender or at

686
00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:39,000
least effort from Jaalen Green on defense, So maybe he

687
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:40,200
has the ability to get to that level.

688
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:42,039
Speaker 3: Nine For the playoffs two, I think he was pretty

689
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:43,240
good on defense.

690
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: And you have like Dylan Brooks still to insulate him

691
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,720
as well as like Ryan Dunn on this team. So

692
00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:51,960
there's like that's not outside the realm with like Derek

693
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,079
White is like I can't I don't think I ever

694
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,079
could see him defending at that type. It's more of

695
00:32:56,079 --> 00:32:56,480
a role.

696
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: It's more of a role thing than.

697
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, Yeah, we've talked a lot with Jalen

698
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,279
Green about you know, he's been The most optimistic case

699
00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:06,119
I think you can take with Jalen on the Suns

700
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,359
is that he simply has never played with a game

701
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,279
processor like Devin Booker. And you know, we've had four

702
00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:15,039
years of him being in Houston in an offense that

703
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:18,240
has very little movement, a lot of stagnation, and just

704
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:20,480
has asked him to do a lot of initiation. And

705
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:23,240
it's like, well, he's twenty how old is he now?

706
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,759
Twenty twenty three, twenty two? It's year five? What if

707
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:28,519
you just give up on the idea of Jalen Green

708
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:31,400
being a superstar and just let him be, you know,

709
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,920
a pretty good kind of number three ish type role

710
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,200
player option, maybe number two if he can get up

711
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:41,759
there instead where he's almost exclusively playing off of Devin Booker,

712
00:33:41,839 --> 00:33:44,880
instead of being a primary initiator, really focusing on kind

713
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,400
of mary balling his game again, Like, that's not something

714
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,000
that I think you should do ubiquitously with every player,

715
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,119
But in Jalen Green's case, I really think it would

716
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,640
suit him to cut out a lot of the mid

717
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:57,359
range garbage and just focus on being a little bit

718
00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:59,039
more of a role player, and maybe he could excel

719
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160
in that role, still average twenty points a game, but

720
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,039
you know, in a kind of Mike's point Derek White

721
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:07,960
sort of way instead of a Zach Levine's sort of way.

722
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 4: So I don't know we'll see.

723
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: Levine, though I will say Dan is a good comp

724
00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:14,639
in that Levine shoots a ton of threes too, Jalen

725
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,039
Green did. Like, I don't want to imply that Jalen

726
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:19,159
Green didn't shoot a ton of threes last year. He did.

727
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,079
He shot a lot of threes last year, but like,

728
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:23,960
I think pumping that up even more to try to

729
00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:27,079
get to the right place with his shot selection would

730
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:30,039
make a huge, huge, huge difference. But like, unless the

731
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:32,639
thing about him that's been interesting is four years in

732
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:35,480
the league, almost all four of them exactly the same.

733
00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:40,159
There has not been big improvements in his playmaking, in

734
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,199
his shot selection, in his overall you know, efficiency as

735
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:48,440
a scorer. It's been four years of relatively similar basketball.

736
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,440
So it's difficult for me to come up with a

737
00:34:50,559 --> 00:34:53,519
version of what he does where I just assume the

738
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:55,599
efficiency is going to make a massive jump, or I

739
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,480
assume that the playmaking is going to make a massive jump,

740
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,920
or even the defense. So finding the right shot selection

741
00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:04,760
within what he's good at. It's a hymn problem and

742
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,760
it's a jor not problem ultimately, and if they can

743
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,960
find a version of that, maybe that's great. But I

744
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,800
will say new player, new team, like young player new

745
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,760
team is a good way to think about it. Maybe

746
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,760
there is something there that we didn't see in Houston.

747
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,519
Maybe a new situation could actually benefit him in a

748
00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:20,119
way that we don't anticipate.

749
00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: I think your point about Devin Booker like maybe having

750
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,039
an impact on him and is the best sort of

751
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:29,519
advantage creator has he ever played alongside is a big

752
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:32,599
deal because his spot up efficiency has peaked in like

753
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:34,559
the sixtieth percent time on his best season. I think

754
00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:36,559
it was in like the zero with per b Ball

755
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:38,920
Index last year. But I don't like that. I'm interesting

756
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,400
with the quality with shots looks like in Phoenix, and

757
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,000
can you also just convince him to play off the

758
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:46,760
ball more? And like one of the things that Houston

759
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,760
did with a player who's now on the Suns is

760
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,880
they rained in Dylan Brooks a lot on the offensive end,

761
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,880
and that's where I feel like he had like one

762
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,159
of his biley's single best year last season. And so

763
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,480
can you figure out a way. I'm not saying Jalen

764
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:02,840
Green needs to be Dylan Brooks, and like Dylan Brooks

765
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,199
still thinks that he could be like a superstar on

766
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,079
certain possessions, But is there a way to rein him

767
00:36:08,119 --> 00:36:10,320
in if they're like, I feel like the best way

768
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,039
to do that is, Oh, you're playing on a good

769
00:36:12,039 --> 00:36:13,960
team with a lot of people above you in the

770
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,239
pecking order, and I just don't know, aside from Devin Booker,

771
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,320
I don't know that they have that contextual juice just yet.

772
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 4: No, You're right, they don't.

773
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 2: And in particular, you know, like we were lucky with

774
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,760
Booker last year and that he played seventy five games,

775
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,239
but he's always had little nagging injuries throughout his career.

776
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,320
There's a solid chance that Devin Booker plays, you know,

777
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,960
sixty five games this year or something, and in any

778
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:37,000
game in which Devin Booker misses anytime at all, Jalen Green,

779
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,760
for better or worse, he's the guy. So that will

780
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,159
look probably pretty similar to how it did in Houston,

781
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,440
which is to say, inefficient basketball maybe prevents your offense

782
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,000
from like totally bottoming out, but just won't.

783
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: Be good turnovers too, you know, like there it'll be

784
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,440
turnover prone.

785
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: Look, here's someone who maybe could save the offense in

786
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:02,119
Colin Gillespie. Oh, here's time to shine where he's just

787
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,880
like the third most important guard on this team now, correct?

788
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 3: Yea? Who else would it be?

789
00:37:08,119 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: You know, Dan, I don't know, I don't know.

790
00:37:10,519 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: Or Jared Butler, Like those two guys are sort of

791
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,360
competing for the last spot on the team at this

792
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,000
point because Butler is signed to a non guaranteed deal

793
00:37:17,079 --> 00:37:18,679
just like Goodwin Racon.

794
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,119
Speaker 2: Allen actually added another forty pounds of muscle. You haven't

795
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:23,480
seen the pictures yet, Dan, but.

796
00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Wing. But like Kobe Brya, interests me too.

797
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 3: Can we all meet it?

798
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,159
Speaker 1: Yeah?

799
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, all, but he's on a two ways so he

800
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,960
can only play. Yeah, but he he is very very

801
00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:42,880
very exciting to me. But yeah, I think Colin Gillespie, he's,

802
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,280
you know, by the numbers, he's technically the best pick

803
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,360
and roll runner on the team last year, but only

804
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,360
ran maybe fifty or sixty of them because he just

805
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,519
didn't play much. But you know, has earned a spot,

806
00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:54,280
a guaranteed deal. He was on a two way last

807
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,239
year too, Gillespie, so he earned a guaranteed deal on

808
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,440
this team, and it's due to his hostile in his

809
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,079
play and his efficiency on and off the ball as

810
00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:05,119
a scorer. Can't get to the rim, can't shoot a

811
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:06,679
lot of mid range shots, but he shoots a ton

812
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:09,280
of threes by the minute, and he can run a

813
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,639
pick and roll, and I think you know he has

814
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,079
some tenacity in rebounds and on defense. He's not going

815
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:16,519
to be great at those things, but he's going to

816
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:18,159
be better than you would anticipate him being.

817
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: He's an excellent rebounder for like a six to one

818
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,920
point guard, Like, yeah, it's not the same as having

819
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,400
a guy like let's say you just have a six

820
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,960
to seven point guard out there before his size. Pound

821
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,840
for pound, Colin Gillespie is an incredible rebounder. It's kind

822
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,239
of mesmerizing to watch.

823
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,559
Speaker 3: And you know he's twenty seven, right, so he is

824
00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:37,599
a player who hasn't played much in the NBA that

825
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,920
is in his prime years as an NBA player. But yeah,

826
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,320
he's going to play a really really important role. As

827
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,719
important is as it's going to be when and when

828
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,800
everyone's healthy, it's going to be doubly important. If guys

829
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,519
missed time and he's just going to be likely the

830
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,840
starting point guard on this team four games. But the

831
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,599
Suns do believe in him, Like they do truly believe

832
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,079
in him. We wanted them to add Chris Paul when

833
00:39:02,119 --> 00:39:05,760
it was between the Clippers and Phoenix, and they, you know,

834
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,320
based on what they've said through their mouthpieces, the Suns

835
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,519
didn't want that. They seemed to choose to not have

836
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:17,559
that big of a voice in the locker room and

837
00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:20,280
give those opportunities to call in Gillespie instead. It's a

838
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,599
risk because like he is small and not had a

839
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:28,880
ton of success, But what he's shown I'm excited about person.

840
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: He's simply never had this level of on ball responsibility

841
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,199
in the NBA. We've seen a little bit of it

842
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:35,960
in like the G League. Like he goes down to

843
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,119
the G League sometimes and averages ten asis a game

844
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:40,639
and just runs their offense. The G League is not

845
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:43,280
the NBA. What I think is really encouraging about Coln

846
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,440
Gillespie is that he is for sure an NBA player

847
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,280
in all of the ancillary skills that he displayed right,

848
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,679
Like he could be a secondary playmaker. He can shoot

849
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,360
threes at a forty percent clip, he can rebound like hell,

850
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,039
he can hustle guard guys ninety four feet that's great.

851
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:01,079
All of that shows me that you are an NBA

852
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,039
PL coming off the bench for twenty minutes a game

853
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:04,199
and like running pick and rolls.

854
00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: Though, is is that's a different role.

855
00:40:06,039 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 2: That's not something he's really been asked to do in

856
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,440
the NBA yet, And so he has suddenly saddled with

857
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:13,480
a lot more responsibility. And either he's going to be

858
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,159
the ty Jerome of this year to make another Cavs comparison,

859
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,199
or he's going to struggle because they're asking him to

860
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:20,840
do a lot more.

861
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:21,679
Speaker 4: So we'll see.

862
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: The reason I was really in favor of Chris Paul

863
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,760
being signed and now I think it kind of falls

864
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,719
to cong Gillespie is I do think the world of

865
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,239
Devin Booker is a playmaker like in his role, but

866
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,480
cong Gillespie is probably best suited more so than anyone

867
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,880
else on this roster to get three of their four

868
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,440
primary bigs like the ball in the way that they

869
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,320
want to score. When you're looking at Common Malo watch,

870
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,079
or you're looking at Nick Richards, or you're looking at

871
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:46,719
Mark Williams, I just like, who is the best lob

872
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,199
Passer on this team, it's probably gonna be like I

873
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,679
really thought CP three. I don't know why he wanted

874
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,480
to play for this team personally, Like I know Phoenix

875
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:56,039
is a good market and he liked it there. There

876
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:57,599
just didn't seem like they were at a timeline to

877
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:00,000
where he would want to go there. But that's where

878
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:01,880
I really wanted them to get, like any type of

879
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,559
veteran point guard who could run the show. And I'm

880
00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:06,320
insure to see if cong Gleespie can because they're big men,

881
00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:09,079
and specifically Williams and Malawatch, who are the two most

882
00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:11,800
important ones, like the Gadaro's up there, but like they

883
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,119
need someone to get them the ball in the right

884
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:16,239
spots to be most effective. Like I know Mark Williams

885
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,960
has like some dynamism to his game, but I don't

886
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,760
want to see, like I just don't trust it down low,

887
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,239
and I think the whole his range quote unquote is

888
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,239
very theoretical at this point. So it's a it's a

889
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,360
really big moment for Congoleespian. I think you could view it,

890
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,639
like you guys said, as like really this big belief

891
00:41:32,679 --> 00:41:34,679
in him, But I do do we think that he's

892
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,000
gonna be able to help these bigs develop. Do we

893
00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:38,480
think that they get to a point where it's like, oh,

894
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:40,880
are they gonna want him like in lineups with both

895
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,679
Devin Booker and Jalen Green, so that he can be

896
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:44,519
the one to delinear touches on offense.

897
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,159
Speaker 3: They're gonna have to They're gonna have to try, you know,

898
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,719
more than anything else, because, yeah, the bigs are intriguing

899
00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:56,880
in Mark Williams and specifically Kaman Malo Watch, I think

900
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,639
those are the right two guys to focus on. I mean,

901
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:01,000
I'm excited about Osugar, we can talk about him too,

902
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,199
But they don't create their own shots. You know, they

903
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,239
just can't. They're not the type of players to do that.

904
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,079
First of all, come on, Mala Watch is eighteen and

905
00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:12,880
Mark Williams only played one hundred and ten games or

906
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,119
so in the NBA. And what he does is jump

907
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:18,400
really high, catch the ball and dunk it. And you know,

908
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,719
he's sort of a DeAndre Jordan on offense up to

909
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,760
this point of his career. Although he can shoot free throws,

910
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,880
which is you know, intriguing at the very least, but

911
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,840
they need someone to be able to do that. Colin

912
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,440
Gillespie is going to be a guy who they're going

913
00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:31,159
to lean on to do that as much as possible.

914
00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:34,119
Devin Booker, for all he can do as a passer,

915
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,920
he's number one in the NBA. This is just that

916
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,960
to bring up a lot at creating three point shots

917
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,159
for players. He actually was number one in the NBA

918
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,679
last year at doing that. But you know he's not

919
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,920
the best at getting shots for guys at the rim

920
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,400
the way like you said, Chris Paul could and was

921
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,760
so capable of and really benefited DeAndre eight and early

922
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,039
in his career because of that. Book's not that guy

923
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:56,559
to do that. He's going to create a ton of

924
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:58,559
three point shots, but not going to get it to them.

925
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:00,239
So it's up to Gillespie, and I hope he up

926
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:00,519
for it.

927
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on Mark Williams? Mike? How do

928
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,760
you feeling about his fit? Are you monitoring most closely

929
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,159
for him?

930
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: You wanted to go to Mike on that one. I

931
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,239
see you don't want old boy over here his opinion.

932
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,039
Speaker 3: Well, gotta get it. So I think with Mark Williams,

933
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:18,519
I wish that the defensive data was better, but the

934
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:21,800
offensive data already puts him as probably the best offensive

935
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:26,360
center they've had since DeAndre Ayton, So that's helpful. The

936
00:43:26,519 --> 00:43:31,079
analysis analysis with Mark Williams that's not overly exciting is

937
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:33,239
that you just cross your fingers that he can stay healthy,

938
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,039
and that's like the biggest thing with him because he's

939
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:42,280
played so little in in the NBA so far. But

940
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,519
I do think that the Sons were kind of criticized

941
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:47,559
for taking Mark Williams and then taking Kamon Malawatch, you know,

942
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:49,840
on the same you know, within minutes of each other.

943
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,239
To be honest, the trade was made and then the

944
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,960
draft pick was picked. But I watched summer league. Come on,

945
00:43:55,039 --> 00:43:57,280
Malawatch is not ready to start, even on a bad team.

946
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,159
I don't think he's ready to start, and.

947
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:03,159
Speaker 2: They need someone to nonsensical A nonsensical argument for anyone

948
00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:05,159
who thought about it for even more than five seconds.

949
00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:07,400
We know that Mark Williams plays forty games a year,

950
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,920
and we know that Kamam mol Lunch is not ready.

951
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,559
So to have both of those guys on the same

952
00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:14,440
team is totally fine. Dan, you didn't ask my opinion.

953
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,599
But when I see Mark Williams, I see prime Dwight Howard.

954
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,039
But eighty percent from the free throw line. Maybe Brook

955
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:23,519
Lopez ranged from deep.

956
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 4: I have stock.

957
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: We are ready for the Mark Williams renaissance.

958
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,079
Speaker 1: Just if you're buying stock, Sam, what is just how

959
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:36,639
do you feel about him defensively then? Because every time

960
00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:39,320
I watch him, most of the good plays feel like

961
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,400
they happen on accident.

962
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,039
Speaker 2: I know you're one hundred percent right. So the real

963
00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:46,039
concerns to have outside of health with Mark Williams our defense.

964
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,000
I actually had a conversation with Mike about this where

965
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:53,440
I was asking, like, who are you more concerned about defensively?

966
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,159
Between Jalen Green and Mark Williams. Both of these guys

967
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:59,320
have had their defensive issues, and I think in general

968
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,079
centers are so much more important to your defensive scheme.

969
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:05,079
So you'd be tempted to say Mark Williams. On the

970
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:08,599
other hand, Mark Williams, like, we just can't discount the

971
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,079
Charlotte Hornets of it all. The total lack of consistency,

972
00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:14,760
the total lack of like you know, having less than

973
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:18,280
an average of twenty five players in their rotation per season,

974
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,760
that just makes it hard to develop right, any sort

975
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,159
of like chemistry with your teammates. Whereas a huge reason

976
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,639
why Jalen Green is so concerning defensively is because he

977
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,159
was otherwise like he was the anchor in a negative

978
00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:37,719
way that was holding down a really good defensive team

979
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,039
and a really good defensive rotation where it was just

980
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:43,199
so obvious that Jalen Green was like the guy who

981
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,320
was struggling out of all those players and Mark Williams,

982
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,079
I don't know. It's just like hard to for me

983
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,840
to attribute responsibility towards Mark Williams versus LaMelo Ball or

984
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,800
Brandon Miller or Miles Bridges or any of those other

985
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,159
disasters who have played for the Charlotte Hornets over the

986
00:45:59,199 --> 00:45:59,880
past few years.

987
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with him, the lack of even when

988
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,519
he has had like that nice stretch to close this season,

989
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:07,559
I just haven't seen like Charles Lee is a good

990
00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:10,719
defensive coach that Hornet's team punched above its weight a lot,

991
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,559
and him as a rim protector, he might have some

992
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:15,800
of the worst timing as just like a big contesting

993
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,400
shot store he will leave his feet like at the faintest,

994
00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:20,039
like I don't and it could be a non shooter

995
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,239
who's like could be Ryan Dunn, like trying to take

996
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,719
a step back or something with like twenty seven twenty

997
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,280
one seconds left on the shock block. So I just

998
00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:30,360
I don't trust him on defense, and I think for

999
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,880
what they gave up for him is fine. I'm with you.

1000
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,800
I don't think Mala Watch is gonna be ready for

1001
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,440
a huge role. When I was doing my Summer League

1002
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,719
breakdown of him, it was I guess tools are there,

1003
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,239
but he just still feels so raw. But I'm not

1004
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,800
like a Mark the price they paid again, like I'm

1005
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,039
not a Mark Williams believer. Offensively maybe sure, but as

1006
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:48,559
you kind of said Sam in the discussion that you

1007
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:50,760
guys did have on that podcast, I really do think

1008
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,360
the center position is so critical to defense that he

1009
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,360
has not shown nearly enough to be aside from being

1010
00:46:57,079 --> 00:47:00,639
accidentally huge on certain and long on and possessions, that

1011
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:02,079
I would trust him as like an anchor of an

1012
00:47:02,079 --> 00:47:03,679
above average defense long term.

1013
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 2: Accidentally huge would be a decent slogan for the Suns

1014
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,280
this year. In general, I think of just like, you know,

1015
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:12,000
that's what we hang our hat on. It's actually large.

1016
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: That should have been a DeAndre and nickname actually, now

1017
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,000
that I think about him in the past. But I

1018
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:21,239
do think Jordano, you know, has experience with Mobiley and

1019
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,960
Jared Allen and uh. And the one thing I will

1020
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,519
say about Mark Williams defensively is that for Biggs, part

1021
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:32,639
of what makes you good at playing defense in the

1022
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,480
NBA is consistently playing, and he hasn't, Like you have

1023
00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,599
to find that timing and if you're if your time

1024
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:43,800
in the NBA is so stilted with injuries, it's really

1025
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,239
difficult to get that consistency to be able to be

1026
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,599
better at defense. So I think there is a world

1027
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:52,599
that he gets better. I understand the skepticism overall of

1028
00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:55,480
what his ceiling could be defensively. It's probably not very high.

1029
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,599
And luckily the Sons drafted who they think could be

1030
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:00,039
their future center. And maybe there's a world where I

1031
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,760
watch develops a little quicker and becomes that. But I

1032
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,840
do think if there is a world where he plays

1033
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,639
sixty five games this year, which probably not, I mean,

1034
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:09,880
there's just no evidence that he can. But if he can,

1035
00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:12,199
I think there's a chance that he becomes somewhat of

1036
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:13,840
a better defender by the end of the season than

1037
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,599
he was at the beginning, and that improvement finally actually

1038
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:18,079
comes for him.

1039
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: Would you guys be shocked if he got an extension

1040
00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:22,760
or do we expect this to go to just restrict

1041
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:23,440
it free agency one.

1042
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,519
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be shocked. It depends on how he plays

1043
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:28,239
and how healthy he is. But I think there's a

1044
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,039
world where you could put together a deal for him

1045
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:32,840
that is so contingent on his ability to stay healthy

1046
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,239
that the Sons have an easy out if it doesn't

1047
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:36,960
work for him.

1048
00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:39,679
Speaker 4: And actually, do we know who Mark Williams agent?

1049
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 3: Is? A great question? Is he Josh Bartlestein's dad? Is

1050
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:44,199
that what you're asking me?

1051
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: I would just think that he would so strongly value

1052
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:47,960
any guaranteed money.

1053
00:48:48,599 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 4: Jeff Schwartz, It's okay, so not Yeah, not Bartlestein.

1054
00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:55,039
Speaker 3: All right, No, that's priority sports? Is that what that is?

1055
00:48:55,039 --> 00:48:57,480
I'm sorry, I care a lot about We care a

1056
00:48:57,519 --> 00:48:59,440
lot about agents on our podcast. I don't know Dan

1057
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,119
if you do, but we have a lot of conversations

1058
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:03,119
about them.

1059
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,639
Speaker 1: I do not follow it as closely as you guys do.

1060
00:49:05,679 --> 00:49:11,119
I don't get into like the who represents who excels? Yeah, so, Sam,

1061
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,679
how do you feel about Malawach and what type of

1062
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,079
a role do you like? What type of runway is

1063
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:18,199
he going? To have to develop on this Sun's team

1064
00:49:18,199 --> 00:49:18,599
this year.

1065
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,199
Speaker 2: So his role in year one is gonna be gazelle

1066
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,440
learning to dribble a basketball and walk and chew gum

1067
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,639
at the same time. Like it's gonna be you know, funny.

1068
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,159
There are gonna be some kaman malaowatch low lights this

1069
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:32,760
year that I think if you just want to point

1070
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,199
at those and be like, haha, big man struggle to

1071
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,559
play basketball good, then like, sure, okay, fine. What was

1072
00:49:40,639 --> 00:49:43,480
so exciting about him in Summer League is just like,

1073
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:46,320
here's an eighteen year old who wasn't asked to do

1074
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,000
all that much in his role at Duke, but then

1075
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:51,559
just has the will to immediately go out there and

1076
00:49:51,639 --> 00:49:55,199
try dribbling the basketball and try shooting threes and try

1077
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,599
doing things that we know maybe statistically he's not going

1078
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:00,480
to be good at immediately. But coming from this experience

1079
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:04,280
of having drafted DeAndre Ayton number one overall and committing

1080
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,480
five years to his development and he never could get

1081
00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:10,519
as far as like doing anything other than an elbow

1082
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:14,599
mid range jumper. To then have a guy come in

1083
00:50:14,639 --> 00:50:17,559
and be so willing to learn and really just the

1084
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:21,239
effusive praise that is being heaped on malowatch from other

1085
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,559
guys who were part of that summerly g roster saying

1086
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:25,920
that he was constantly the captain of the defense and

1087
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,719
the loudest guy that they had on defense. It's like,

1088
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,719
that's just exactly what you want to hear about your

1089
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,639
eighteen year old rookie, and honestly is pretty surprising too

1090
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,360
that he's already there. So I just don't think statistically

1091
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,119
it's going to be there in year one. You're going

1092
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:42,719
to have to read between the lines on him a

1093
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,719
little bit at the beginning. But like if you watch

1094
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,320
him dribbling the ball, if you watch him attempting threes,

1095
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,840
if you watch him, you know, being vocal on defense,

1096
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:52,679
the intangible stuff is there that you just have to

1097
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,000
buy into. His combination of athleticism and work ethic and

1098
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:56,880
trust the process.

1099
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: Are do you think the Suns have the stomach to

1100
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,840
go through those growing pains this season or is there

1101
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,039
a level of like immediate expectations here because they're just

1102
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:10,800
they're on this weird timeline right now. I don't know.

1103
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,519
I frankly, I don't know like what their aim is.

1104
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:14,880
They're trying to develop and also still be relevant, because

1105
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,960
what else is there to do, But yeah.

1106
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 3: They don't own their picks. Yeah yeah, it's like.

1107
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: What type of a leash do you think, Like, is

1108
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:22,679
this gonna be maybe after the All Star break theme

1109
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,320
of a better sense of where they are, so that's

1110
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:25,440
when he could get more run.

1111
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:30,039
Speaker 3: They drafted Malowach, who is eighteen. He will be nineteen

1112
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,039
this coming season. He's played basketball since he was fourteen.

1113
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,239
So I mean they're showing some willingness there, right, I

1114
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,760
mean they have to be because how And then also

1115
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,360
I will say they hired a coach who's famous for

1116
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,360
his player development, Like, so I think that they are

1117
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,440
showing some willingness and this is a credit to Devin

1118
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,800
Booker's willingness to give it some time too. But that

1119
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,159
how far and how long that patience will last remains

1120
00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:56,360
to be seen, and we'll see if that's something he

1121
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,920
feels next year as well as this year. But they're

1122
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,400
showing some willingness to have some patients for this season,

1123
00:52:03,519 --> 00:52:06,760
just based on the decisions they've made. But you know, Malawatch,

1124
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,599
you know, I think Sam said it earlier on in

1125
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:11,079
the podcast, like so much of how successful the Kevin

1126
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:15,480
Durant trade is is viewed will be dependent on his

1127
00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:19,800
development and ultimately, like like the Sons have, I will

1128
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,559
say they have Mark Williams, they have Nick Richards, they

1129
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:24,039
have ohsu a guitar, they have common Malwatch, meaning they

1130
00:52:24,039 --> 00:52:25,920
have four guys who can play center on this team.

1131
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,400
Malawatch is the gonna be the worst one on the

1132
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,199
court when the season begins, but they still have to

1133
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,960
play him. They just have to. They have to give

1134
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:39,360
him the time to develop. They have to allow him

1135
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,199
to make the mistakes that he's going to make early

1136
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,199
on in the season, and they have to figure out

1137
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:46,039
what they have with him by next season. And ultimately,

1138
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:47,320
like if they get to a point at the end

1139
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,960
of the season where they say, okay, we've developed these

1140
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,119
young guys. We have Ryan Dunn, we have Malawatch, we

1141
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:54,480
have Jalen Green, and maybe they decide to make a

1142
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:56,360
trade with two or three of those guys and try

1143
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,039
to find someone who can help accelerate the team and

1144
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:01,639
be better next season next to Devin Booker. Maybe that's

1145
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:02,960
something they do. I don't know if that's a good

1146
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,440
decision or a bad depending on the trade, but they

1147
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:07,800
do have to find out what they have this season

1148
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:13,199
with the young guys they have on the team.

1149
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,159
Speaker 1: Sam, where are you at with Osogadara?

1150
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 2: He's like a fun little project, you know, I think

1151
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,400
a very smart player, a very capable player. It's obviously

1152
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,559
fun to watch him hoist up floaters and be this

1153
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,400
like secondary connector. And he's going to continue to be

1154
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:34,519
like an important option, you know, anytime he shares the

1155
00:53:34,519 --> 00:53:37,519
florid Devin Booker, for instance, because we know Devin Booker

1156
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,079
as being like in a more heliocentric system now where

1157
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:42,960
he's going to be a single star. There's gonna be

1158
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,400
a lot of blitzing Devin Booker this season. It's no

1159
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,800
secret Jordan Nottt knows that he's talked about it, or

1160
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,840
maybe Jordan Nott hasn't directly talked about it. Nigel Hayes Davis,

1161
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,079
who we mentioned earlier and maybe we'll talk about again,

1162
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,880
did an interview where he was talking about having a

1163
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,719
conversation with Jord Not about how Devin Booker's gonna be

1164
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,320
blitz all the time. One of the best short role

1165
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,800
playmaking options. They have to sort of counteract that, oh

1166
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,559
so a Gadaro. So it helps to have these really

1167
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:13,199
smart skilled bigs. Can he play power forward? They certainly

1168
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,719
tried it a lot in Summer League. Can he show

1169
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,719
any sort of offensive juice whatsoever, to like, get to

1170
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,480
the rim a little bit more and not just hit

1171
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:23,360
you with the floater? Or you know, his shooting form

1172
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,920
is so far off, but can he give you a

1173
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,239
fifteen foot mid range elbow jumper even at some point?

1174
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:32,239
Can he shoot better than sixty percent from the free

1175
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,639
throw line? You know, these are still big questions with OsO.

1176
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:38,039
And if the answer to those is no, he doesn't

1177
00:54:38,079 --> 00:54:40,199
really have a future as an NBA player. But if

1178
00:54:40,199 --> 00:54:42,480
he develops any of those skills, then he's a really

1179
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:46,360
interesting development project for them, and I am sure that

1180
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,360
they will find time to play him. Compared to Malowatch,

1181
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,639
who we were just talking about, I don't really know

1182
00:54:51,679 --> 00:54:54,000
who plays more this year. You know, I would guess

1183
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:56,880
that maybe Malowatch plays more than OsO, but truthfully, I

1184
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,519
don't know. Depends a lot on Mark Williams's health, depends

1185
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:01,400
a lot on on their stomach for playing.

1186
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 3: Oh so at Power Forward too, and Malowatch is three

1187
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:06,519
because if you can shoot threes right away, which I

1188
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:09,159
think they're gonna let him do, then maybe they can

1189
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:09,719
play together.

1190
00:55:10,119 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: I want to see more of those. He opened Summer

1191
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:14,400
League basically with the spinning lefty hook. I want to

1192
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,519
see more of those, Like let's just give Malo Watch

1193
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:18,360
like the ultimate license off.

1194
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:19,519
Speaker 3: I agree Herefore why not?

1195
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 1: Uh so is there a dual big lineup in particular

1196
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,159
that you would like to see them trywards also at

1197
00:55:26,159 --> 00:55:27,760
the four? And then who do you want at the fight?

1198
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,400
Would it be Malawatch in that case or a believer

1199
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,039
in Mark Williams hitting three pointers at like an eighty

1200
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:34,079
percent clip or something?

1201
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:36,639
Speaker 4: Right? I think he will. I mean, like, let's just

1202
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:37,039
be honest.

1203
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 2: I know you're not huge on Mark Williams, but if

1204
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,440
you're talking about, like, let's have a good net rating

1205
00:55:41,559 --> 00:55:44,159
right now and you play also at the four, then yeah,

1206
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:47,639
you probably want him next to Mark Williams if you're

1207
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,400
just interested in the future potential. Ohso in Malo Watch

1208
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,800
together would be very interesting as well. I also wouldn't

1209
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,639
discount the possibility Dan that Malawatch will play a bit

1210
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,400
at the four with Mark Williams would not shock me

1211
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,920
at all. I don't think again, not a coincidence that

1212
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,840
they hired the guy who worked with Evan Mobley and

1213
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,880
Jared Allen, and I just think that's totally on the

1214
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:09,719
table for them too.

1215
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: Not only is it not a coincidence, they talked a

1216
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,159
lot in the offseason about double big lineups, offensive rebounding.

1217
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,840
They openly talked about it, whether it be Brian Gregory,

1218
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:22,840
Jordan Not or even Matt Ishbia like they're talking about

1219
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,599
that as what the league is leaning towards. And even

1220
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,920
the Rockets, the team that Kd's on, they seem to

1221
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,440
be a team that's going to be willing to start

1222
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,760
Shan Gun and Adams neither are floor spaces, and maybe

1223
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,079
there is a world where there is some sort of

1224
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:41,280
workable NBA offense with non floor spacing bigs two of

1225
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,960
them on the floor in the future.

1226
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've thought a lot about that with the Rockets,

1227
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:47,760
as to whether they're going to try and start like

1228
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,199
a little bit of that where it's like mash basketball

1229
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:51,599
is back. You need one of them to be like

1230
00:56:51,639 --> 00:56:54,280
a good playmaker, but like kind of the days of

1231
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,719
you need Evan Mobiley needs to shoot threes in Cleveland,

1232
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,559
Like I wonder if that's no longer like.

1233
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:02,159
Speaker 3: The bar, some sort of dribbling matters too. That's those

1234
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,199
su a guitar thing that Sam mentioned too, right, it's

1235
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:06,840
not just shooting, but some sort of dribbling and playmaking

1236
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,119
along with that could could really really go a long

1237
00:57:09,159 --> 00:57:11,280
ways for him.

1238
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,519
Speaker 1: Mike, I thought Ryan Don interesting last year. The three

1239
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:18,280
point efficiency obviously didn't hold. The volume I think was

1240
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,559
more than fine. I know everyone's going to point to

1241
00:57:20,559 --> 00:57:22,639
the three point efficiency and say this needs to go up.

1242
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,119
What other like developmental aspects Aside from that, though, should

1243
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:28,000
we be monitoring as he has ince a year two.

1244
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,239
Speaker 3: The defense, it's it's they're actually gonna put him, I

1245
00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:33,480
think in a really tough position to start this season

1246
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,480
in that he's going to essentially be the starting power forward.

1247
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:39,639
I mean, I guess you could say it's Dylan Brooks,

1248
00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:42,039
but I think that Ryan Dunn is a little taller

1249
00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:43,880
and that puts him in the position to guard bigger

1250
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,280
guys occasionally, and I think I don't think that's necessarily

1251
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,079
a skill set. But the reason he was drafted, the

1252
00:57:49,119 --> 00:57:51,480
reason he was a first round pick in fact, is

1253
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:54,559
his projected defense, and we have to see some of

1254
00:57:54,599 --> 00:57:58,519
that become a reality. There were times where he played

1255
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:00,400
good defense last year. There was times where you fouling

1256
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:01,800
too much, and there was times where he's a little

1257
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,079
week defensively last year, but for him to be successful,

1258
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:08,440
there is an obvious path where if he shoots thirty

1259
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,679
five percent from three and does that consistently, then yes,

1260
00:58:11,719 --> 00:58:15,320
he can be an NBA player. But he really has

1261
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,760
to show what that projected defense is for him in

1262
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,960
the NBA soon for him to have a long career

1263
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:24,920
in the NBA, because I don't think he can get

1264
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:26,480
away with playing defense like he did last year. But

1265
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:28,320
he was a rookie, right, so we just have to

1266
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,800
see that really come together for him. And I think

1267
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:33,679
he seems to be a really hard worker and someone

1268
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,079
who thinks about the game a lot. Spent every day

1269
00:58:36,119 --> 00:58:38,920
in the gym this offseason at the Sun's practice facility,

1270
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,480
in fact, so I'm pretty excited to see what he

1271
00:58:41,519 --> 00:58:42,440
can do next year.

1272
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: Do you think that playing like Dylan Brooks is a

1273
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,480
pretty I would ca him a malleable defender where he's

1274
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:49,119
not super big, but he can guard a bunch of

1275
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:51,119
different spots, Like do you think that that gives them

1276
00:58:51,159 --> 00:58:53,519
the ability to make life easier on Ryan Done, to

1277
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:55,440
maybe put him in better even though he's the starting forward,

1278
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:57,840
to maybe tailor his assignments accordingly.

1279
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:02,159
Speaker 3: It's it's a fat athing because we're talking about a

1280
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:04,440
starting lineup that has Devin Booker and Jalen Green in

1281
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,760
it as well, so like in some ways you have

1282
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,000
to hide both of those guys. So yeah, I mean,

1283
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,880
if you're playing a team like say the Lakers, they

1284
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,000
have Lebron James and they have Luka Doncics, you have

1285
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:16,639
two guys who can do that. But then who guards

1286
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:19,239
Austin Reeves? You know, it can be one of those

1287
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,480
situations where one of the guys in Devin Booker and

1288
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:24,159
Jalen Green has to guard a guy no, no matter what.

1289
00:59:25,039 --> 00:59:27,639
But I think Ryan Done, I think his best abilities

1290
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:30,880
last year we're guarding smaller ball handlers, you know, shooting

1291
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,719
guards and point guards. And if they can find a

1292
00:59:32,719 --> 00:59:34,920
way to do that for him regularly and just sort

1293
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,239
of say, Dylan Brooks, you're guarding Shangoon tonight. You know,

1294
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,480
like if they do start Steven Adams and Shangun, you

1295
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:44,320
gotta put Dylan Brooks on Shangun. I don't think you

1296
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,440
can put Ryan do on on him. He's just not

1297
00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:49,480
strong enough. He doesn't have the base necessary to do that.

1298
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:51,840
And really Dylan Brooks doesn't either. But you're sort of

1299
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,840
dealing with what your best options are with what you

1300
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,400
have at that point. So yeah, they're gonna have to

1301
00:59:57,119 --> 00:59:59,639
Dylan Brooks I think is going to have a positive

1302
00:59:59,679 --> 01:00:04,000
impact on Ryan Dunn period. Like just in general, I

1303
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,480
think putting a little more of the Dylan Brooks mindset

1304
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:10,559
into Ryan Dunn that alone will have a positive impact

1305
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:12,880
on him, but also having another guy who can guard

1306
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:13,920
bigger will be helpful.

1307
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: Yes, Sam, what are your early impressions of Kobe Breya

1308
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,760
on do you think that would you predict that they

1309
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,119
will convert him to a regular contract by the end

1310
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:22,920
of the season.

1311
01:00:23,199 --> 01:00:24,639
Speaker 4: Absolute baller.

1312
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,079
Speaker 2: It helps, by the way that every single young guy

1313
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:28,760
we've talked about, I mean, say what you will for

1314
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,559
all of their prospective talent that remains to be seen,

1315
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:35,119
but all of these guys are just smart. They haven't

1316
01:00:35,199 --> 01:00:37,800
drafted any dummies recently, and that's been very intentional. We

1317
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,920
talked about Ryan Dunn Oso's ability to process the game,

1318
01:00:41,119 --> 01:00:43,400
and then this year Malo Watch's work ethic, we're sheer

1319
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,280
Fleming's work ethic, and now Kobe Brea who you're talking

1320
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:48,559
about his work ethic and I've watched some interviews with

1321
01:00:48,639 --> 01:00:50,760
him where he just has a really sharp way of

1322
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,719
processing the game as well, and lots of different guys

1323
01:00:54,159 --> 01:00:57,280
whose tape he watches in order to help him as like,

1324
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,440
you know, an average sized wing at the next level

1325
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,519
that that he understands that's what he is. I would

1326
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:06,800
love for Kobe to get an ability to really play

1327
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,920
a little bit and for his shooting to pop and

1328
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,519
ultimately for them to convert him from a two way.

1329
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:15,400
There is kind of this glut of wings standing in

1330
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,719
his way right and and again it goes back to that,

1331
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,760
you know, that topic of what is the timeline this year?

1332
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,000
And you know, do they want to win games? Do

1333
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:24,920
they feel that playing a lot of Grace and Allen

1334
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:26,960
and Royce O'Neil, who are both still on the team

1335
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,719
and both competent, capable NBA wings, is that going to

1336
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,440
help them win more? Or is there going to be

1337
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,440
a need for someone like Kobe Bray at some point

1338
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,199
who is a better movement shooter even than Grace and Allen.

1339
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,519
You know, like Grayson Allen's an awesome, awesome shooter. Kobe

1340
01:01:40,519 --> 01:01:44,239
Brea is like incredible. His his potential for shooting at

1341
01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:48,000
the next level is truly something you don't see very often.

1342
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 4: So I don't know.

1343
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: It's it just comes back to that question of how

1344
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,599
much can they stomach kind of giving these guys a runway.

1345
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:58,599
Speaker 1: Are there any other players you want to talk about

1346
01:01:58,599 --> 01:02:00,400
that we haven't discussed before we move on? And he's

1347
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,039
scorching hot? Grayson Allen or Royce O'Neill or you guys

1348
01:02:03,159 --> 01:02:04,280
mentioned Nigel Hayes Davis.

1349
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:06,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, you want to take a mic?

1350
01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:07,039
Speaker 3: Or should I?

1351
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, he's the Jimmy Butler of the EuroLeague

1352
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,320
if you watch his tape a little bit, but with

1353
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,719
a three point shot. Uh So, basically I don't know

1354
01:02:15,719 --> 01:02:16,760
what is that Larry Bird?

1355
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 4: You know?

1356
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,679
Speaker 3: So he said he's said.

1357
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Over Williams is Dwight Howard Davis is Larry Bird. You're

1358
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:25,239
building a hell of a team.

1359
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 3: He's euro League Larry Bird. Now, the thing about Nagel

1360
01:02:28,039 --> 01:02:31,320
Hayes Davis is he's a six to seven shooter and

1361
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,000
shot creator who doesn't really play picking pick and rolls,

1362
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,960
at least based on the highlights. Like he does a

1363
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,000
lot of post ups and he does a lot of

1364
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:43,159
like off ball stuff. And you're talking about Kobe Brea.

1365
01:02:43,559 --> 01:02:45,639
I think it's I think it's important to mention too,

1366
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:48,440
that that that Grayson Allen is like the most obvious

1367
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,320
trade candidate on his team, on this team, based on

1368
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,159
his contract, and if there's a world where the Suns

1369
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:55,360
do like a two for one trade where they put

1370
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,239
a couple of guys together to trade for someone mid season,

1371
01:02:58,239 --> 01:03:01,119
Grayson Allen probably is that guy. And now they have

1372
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:04,159
maybe Nigel Hayes Davis and Kobe Braa to step in

1373
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:06,920
and do some of the stuff offensively, at least that

1374
01:03:07,039 --> 01:03:10,400
Grayson Allen did. But Nigel Hayes Davis, I think is

1375
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,639
was the best player in euro League last year as

1376
01:03:12,639 --> 01:03:14,480
far as scoring. He has the highest scoring game in

1377
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,639
EuroLeague history. I think fifty one points is what he

1378
01:03:17,719 --> 01:03:20,519
ended with in that game that he played a little

1379
01:03:20,519 --> 01:03:22,920
bit of cherry picking involved, but hey, I think he's

1380
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,400
allowed if you're trying to chase that record. But shorter game.

1381
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,159
He's thirty, right, He's thirty years old, and I think

1382
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:32,000
that's important to mention with this team because it's a

1383
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:34,719
really young team and he's a guy who's played professional

1384
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,000
basketball for ten years. And I think there's a world where,

1385
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,679
especially when guys are not in and out of the lineup,

1386
01:03:39,679 --> 01:03:41,480
guys are not playing. I think there's a world where

1387
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:44,559
Nigel Hayes Davis actually plays a bigger role than we

1388
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:47,960
anticipated for this team going forward. If he can do

1389
01:03:48,679 --> 01:03:53,599
movement shooting at six seven, that's valuable. Like there's just

1390
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:55,079
not a ton of guys who can do a lot

1391
01:03:55,079 --> 01:03:57,360
of movement shooting, and he did it in euro League.

1392
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,559
Whether or not that translates to the NBA remains to

1393
01:03:59,559 --> 01:04:01,440
be seen. He's one of those guys where this is

1394
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,159
a chance he doesn't play at all, and this is

1395
01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:05,920
the chance he has a much bigger role than we anticipated.

1396
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:07,760
And I don't think it's I think it's too early

1397
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,559
to predict which one it's going to be for him. Yeah, totally.

1398
01:04:10,599 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 2: I mean he could be I remember when the Sun's

1399
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,760
brought in sunny weams, you know, like ten years ago. Yeah,

1400
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:18,559
from playing overseas, and it could be Mike James or

1401
01:04:18,599 --> 01:04:20,760
Mike James. It could be another one of those situations,

1402
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,199
or this could be the Yaba Sele of this year

1403
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:26,679
where he starts playing pretty immediately and makes an impact

1404
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:29,159
and you have people saying, oh, it's actually, you know,

1405
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,920
a really good player, So we'll see. He's funny, he's

1406
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,639
charismatic too, which helps. I'm just a rooting for him.

1407
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,239
Speaker 1: Are you guys ready to enter the cookie Cutter slash

1408
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:39,039
Lightning round portion?

1409
01:04:39,159 --> 01:04:41,039
Speaker 3: Let's do it, Let's do it. I know we're always

1410
01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:43,239
going long in this podcast, so I apologize already.

1411
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: Look, you guys are fine, Okay, cool, Let's begin here.

1412
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,800
So I'll start with you, Mike. Looking at this roster

1413
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,400
as of right now, without having seen it together on

1414
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,079
the court in full, what is its single biggest need

1415
01:04:56,119 --> 01:04:56,320
to you?

1416
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 3: I think, Oh, that's interesting. I think this single biggest

1417
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,599
need for this team is another star player next to

1418
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:07,679
Devin Booker, like honestly talent.

1419
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, with a three point shot in Mark Williams. I

1420
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,239
don't understand why you need another co star.

1421
01:05:13,199 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and European but actually American Larry Bird. Let's not

1422
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,159
forget Yeah.

1423
01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:21,079
Speaker 3: No, I think, like to me, it's just very clear

1424
01:05:21,079 --> 01:05:23,119
that there's so much on Devin Bookers shoulders, which I

1425
01:05:23,159 --> 01:05:24,760
think will be kind of fun to watch at times.

1426
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,519
But if you want to be a great team, like

1427
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:28,800
a truly great team, they need, you know, what they

1428
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,679
had in Chris Paul and then at times what they

1429
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:32,960
had and Kevin Durant who obviously was great, but that

1430
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,400
team was never put together in a way that benefited

1431
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,880
either of them. So, you know, I don't know, maybe

1432
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,920
that is Jalen Green, or maybe it's Malawatch at some

1433
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,440
point in the future, or maybe it's whoever they trade

1434
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,159
Jalen Green and Malowatch for, you know, at the trade

1435
01:05:45,159 --> 01:05:48,400
deadliner in the offseason or something. It's difficult to really

1436
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,400
say what that is going to be. But to me,

1437
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:52,000
that is the biggest need.

1438
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:57,639
Speaker 1: Sam, do you have a second biggest need for them.

1439
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:01,079
Speaker 4: Other than talent? Uh?

1440
01:06:01,719 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 3: Draft picks?

1441
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:04,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, draft picks.

1442
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 1: You know, you just say that Grayson Allen you think

1443
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,360
is the most likely to be traded. You don't think

1444
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,880
that Royce O'Neill, like his salary is more a little

1445
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:14,760
like smaller someone.

1446
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 3: It is smaller, Yeah, but I think it's smaller in

1447
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:17,800
a way.

1448
01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:23,199
Speaker 1: That the Sun's like you, I think it's Royce O'Neill

1449
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,480
because then is probably one of the most underappreciated players

1450
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,079
of like the last five or seven years.

1451
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fair to say. He just fits

1452
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:33,840
on every teams.

1453
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 4: Also, but you know, wait, what did you say?

1454
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:41,079
Speaker 2: I think that's Deandrayton, one of the most underappreciated players

1455
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:43,480
the last time. Bradley Beal is probably the first guy.

1456
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 1: I think he's probably underappreciated by every other team since

1457
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:48,679
he's submarine the Suns from within.

1458
01:06:49,039 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1459
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: Uh, Sam, So we'll start with you here. Is there

1460
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,159
something about this team, whether it's a strength, another weakness,

1461
01:06:56,199 --> 01:06:59,119
a storyline development, whatever that's flying under the radar that

1462
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:01,000
you think deserves bigger spotlight.

1463
01:07:01,559 --> 01:07:04,039
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean it's because they're so young, but

1464
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,320
you know, just underscoring the fact again that they are long.

1465
01:07:07,639 --> 01:07:11,599
They you know, very intentionally have been scouting as many

1466
01:07:11,639 --> 01:07:14,400
players as possible with these seven foot plus wingspans, and

1467
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,559
I don't think people realize that, Like, yeah, I think

1468
01:07:17,639 --> 01:07:19,599
at times they're going to struggle to score, but also

1469
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:21,920
they're probably going to grab a lot of offensive rebounds

1470
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,840
and they're probably going to get a lot of deflections

1471
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,440
in a way that they just weren't able to impact

1472
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,800
the game in the past. And I don't know, like,

1473
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,960
if you want an optimistic case on the Suns and

1474
01:07:31,199 --> 01:07:33,519
you're looking for ways to maybe potentially hit their over

1475
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:36,119
on their over under, that could be it. That's just

1476
01:07:36,599 --> 01:07:39,480
they're going to tap into a pure effort that they

1477
01:07:39,559 --> 01:07:41,960
simply did not display in the past couple of years.

1478
01:07:42,519 --> 01:07:44,119
So yeah, I think they're going to be much more

1479
01:07:44,159 --> 01:07:46,519
of a league pass team this year. Even if they

1480
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:48,159
don't win as many games, they're just gonna be more

1481
01:07:48,159 --> 01:07:48,760
fun to watch.

1482
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 3: Yo.

1483
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:51,239
Speaker 1: I had this in the outline and skipped over it,

1484
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,800
but in part because they're so huge, I find myself

1485
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,760
very intrigued by what they could be defensively, which feels

1486
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,199
very weird to say about a team that's built or

1487
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,679
headlined by Devin Booker and Jalen Green, like first and foremost,

1488
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:05,880
like what do you make of like this? Could this

1489
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:07,880
be a team that, like, could you see their defense

1490
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:11,039
out performing their offense? Is that the expectation within absolutely

1491
01:08:11,639 --> 01:08:11,920
I don't know.

1492
01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:15,039
Speaker 2: Okay, it's almost my baseline expectation. I don't well, I

1493
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:15,360
don't know.

1494
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:16,119
Speaker 4: I guess I'm not sure.

1495
01:08:16,159 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was that duh. I thought I

1496
01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:19,439
was proposing something novel.

1497
01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 4: No no, no, no no no.

1498
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,119
Speaker 2: I'm not here to criticize your don't not say you're criticized.

1499
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: That's why I have this podcast, because I'm not as

1500
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,000
in touch with like what the fan base is thinking,

1501
01:08:28,119 --> 01:08:29,560
what the internal expectations are.

1502
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 2: Well, so we do our over under. We make our

1503
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,399
own over unders for the team every year and then

1504
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,279
release it as an episode. And we haven't done that yet.

1505
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:37,800
Mike always sets those But Mike, would you say, I'll

1506
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,920
turn it to you. Yeah, what's your is your expectation

1507
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,000
that the offense or the defense is better this year?

1508
01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 4: You think it's offense.

1509
01:08:45,039 --> 01:08:47,359
Speaker 3: I do, Yeah, I think it's so I I but

1510
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,840
I do think that to your point, Dan, the defense

1511
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:55,760
is like, if you're looking at what culture the Suns

1512
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,520
are trying to reset the culture right now, and if

1513
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,319
you look at the culture that they're trying to set

1514
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:03,960
for this team. The thing that Mattieshpia has talked about

1515
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:07,560
since since the end of the season was trying to

1516
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,479
find a team where guys are working hard every single

1517
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,279
night and the fan base will leave the games. This

1518
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:17,479
is how he describes it, even if they don't win, thinking, well,

1519
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:19,520
at least they tried, you know, because I think that

1520
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,479
the team, Yeah, yeah, that's the that's history.

1521
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,119
Speaker 2: Views his roster as like, give me the guys who

1522
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:30,960
theoretically could sell the most mortgages possible. Give me, give

1523
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,560
me just a team full of star entrepreneurs.

1524
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 3: The team cleaves is actually uh finding ways to motivate

1525
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,600
both the actual mortgage salesman and now the NBA team.

1526
01:09:41,239 --> 01:09:43,560
But you know, I I I do think that it

1527
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:47,159
just roster wise. I think the combination of Jalen Green

1528
01:09:47,159 --> 01:09:49,439
and Devin Booker and and Mark Williams in the starting

1529
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,439
lineup is where it's difficult for me to say that

1530
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,880
they can put a great defense together right away because

1531
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:56,800
those are just three defenders that you can't count on

1532
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,399
every single game. But if you look at the guys

1533
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,720
that come in on the bench off outside of them,

1534
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,560
if you look at Dylan Brooks and Jailing and Ryan Dunn,

1535
01:10:05,039 --> 01:10:07,640
there is like personnel that you can start sliding in

1536
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,640
and finding ways to put an interesting defense out onto

1537
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,159
the floor at times, especially if they are willing to

1538
01:10:13,159 --> 01:10:16,359
sacrifice some of the offense for it. But I do

1539
01:10:16,399 --> 01:10:18,279
think that it will be a little more difficult to

1540
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:19,920
do that, and I think honestly, they still have a

1541
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,840
bunch of guys who can shoot threes, you know, Dylan Brooks,

1542
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,239
Jalen Green, Royce O'Neill, Grayson Allen, and then they have

1543
01:10:27,279 --> 01:10:29,439
Devin Booker. And if you put those guys around Devin Booker,

1544
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:30,920
I think you can just find a way to a

1545
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,760
relatively good offense. Just based on that alone, so I

1546
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,720
think it's just gonna be an easier path to find

1547
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,039
a good offense than a good defense.

1548
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 1: Mike, is there anything else that you think is flying

1549
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:40,840
under the radar about this team?

1550
01:10:41,119 --> 01:10:44,159
Speaker 3: If they're on a path to win twenty five games

1551
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:48,000
this season, how cheap can the hot Dogs get? Can

1552
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:50,640
they go to one dollar? Can they go to fifty cents?

1553
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: Like?

1554
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 3: What is matt Isshbia willing to do to get fans

1555
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,640
in the games? Will he pay people to watch the team?

1556
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,319
The games are free right now, or is he going

1557
01:10:59,399 --> 01:11:02,079
to offer some money to watch the games on TV?

1558
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:04,319
Tip players? That's what I'm interested to see.

1559
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,119
Speaker 2: Mike hates baseball, but I'm sure he's aware of the

1560
01:11:07,239 --> 01:11:09,600
nine to nine to nine challenge at baseball games. Nine

1561
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:11,279
hot Dogs, nine Beers, nine innings.

1562
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 3: I've actually never never heard of that.

1563
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,359
Speaker 2: Now, yes, okay, well after that either Now I'm disappointed

1564
01:11:16,399 --> 01:11:18,000
in both of you guys right now, but I would

1565
01:11:18,039 --> 01:11:20,560
let me I would like to see a Sun's version

1566
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,159
because it's boring if you do it with four quarters. Yeah,

1567
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:24,840
I think you could tie it to the number of

1568
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,159
Jalen Green three point attempts. I'd like to see if

1569
01:11:27,199 --> 01:11:30,119
we can get up past ten, eleven, twelve. Jalen Green

1570
01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:33,359
shoots fourteen threes in a game. I'm slamming fourteen hot dogs.

1571
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,479
I'm drinking fourteen beers. You know, I think the sky's

1572
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:36,920
the limit.

1573
01:11:37,079 --> 01:11:39,279
Speaker 1: So were you allowed to start from the first three?

1574
01:11:39,399 --> 01:11:41,119
Or is this cumulative where you don't know until the

1575
01:11:41,119 --> 01:11:43,159
final buzzer sounds and you find out that he's gonna

1576
01:11:43,159 --> 01:11:43,600
slam him.

1577
01:11:44,199 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just gonna slam them all at once. No,

1578
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,960
I think you every time he takes hoists another three,

1579
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:49,399
you got.

1580
01:11:49,239 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 3: It between the quarters, you have to go buy the

1581
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:51,840
hot dogs. Yeah, I like that.

1582
01:11:53,159 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So you two are building a ten man rotation

1583
01:11:56,039 --> 01:11:58,319
for this team. Who are the starters? And then who

1584
01:11:58,359 --> 01:11:59,800
are the five most used reserves?

1585
01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:03,119
Speaker 3: I think we could do this together, Sam, because the

1586
01:12:03,159 --> 01:12:05,760
starters we know, right, it's Devin Booker, Jalen Green, Ryan

1587
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,359
dun Dylan Brooks, Mark Williams, Mark Williams yep. And then

1588
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,520
the two guys I think that are. I think there

1589
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:14,319
are three guys that are absolutely guaranteed to get minutes

1590
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:18,199
off the bench, and Colin Gilesbie Royce O'Neil, Grayson Allen like,

1591
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:21,239
that's that's just a guaranteed. So the next two guys

1592
01:12:21,319 --> 01:12:23,239
are the next two guys that is the most interesting,

1593
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,920
and I think malawatch right, we're just gonna start with

1594
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,119
him m hm, and then who's the last guy?

1595
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 1: That is the question would you two be like, even

1596
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,079
if they're healthy, wouldn't you be a little discouraged if

1597
01:12:35,079 --> 01:12:37,640
the number ten overall pick was not like a member

1598
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,199
of what ends up being their top ten rotation, Like, yeah,

1599
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:43,640
they might have immediate expectations, but you have real equity

1600
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:44,720
invested in this guy.

1601
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess there's a chance they start the

1602
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,039
season without him playing much and they're trying to get

1603
01:12:49,119 --> 01:12:51,560
him a little ready, but like midway through the season,

1604
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:53,560
this guy should be getting minutes every game he's healthy

1605
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,840
for just period, I think, so not doing that, we're

1606
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:56,720
gonna hammer him for it.

1607
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, based on the last available options, we've we've listed

1608
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:04,079
nine guys, right, what we're obviously missing is backup power forward.

1609
01:13:04,399 --> 01:13:06,359
You know, you could say positions don't matter anymore, but

1610
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:08,920
that's more or less what we're looking for. Your options

1611
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,960
are OsO A Guitarro, who's probably the best I don't know,

1612
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,800
maybe the best remaining player, but a weird fit at

1613
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,159
power forward, and we don't know how frequently they're they're

1614
01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:22,119
willing to do it. You could do Rasher Fleming, who

1615
01:13:22,119 --> 01:13:23,920
they just drafted in the second round, who just has

1616
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,079
the perfect body to play that position, but obviously no

1617
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:30,840
NBA experience. You could do Nigel Hayes Davis, who also

1618
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,920
doesn't really have the NBA experience but has the most

1619
01:13:34,119 --> 01:13:36,960
veteran basketball playing experience, is maybe the smartest player of

1620
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,520
those three. I could see them doing anything, guys. Honestly,

1621
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,359
I'm not sure who they start with their Yeah, I

1622
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,479
think I think that maybe Nigel. I think that it's

1623
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,399
probably going to be sold.

1624
01:13:47,359 --> 01:13:50,119
Speaker 1: On him just talking up in this podcast, So.

1625
01:13:50,239 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were. I wouldn't remember start. Yeah, there was

1626
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,560
a year he might, honestly, if if Ryan Dunn can't

1627
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,039
figure it out right early in the season, he might, honestly.

1628
01:13:59,399 --> 01:14:02,079
But there was a podcast a few years ago where

1629
01:14:02,119 --> 01:14:04,319
we really sold you on to Moni Kamara and we

1630
01:14:04,319 --> 01:14:05,239
were right about that.

1631
01:14:05,399 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: You were. I actually credit you guys with that like

1632
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:10,720
multiple times a year at this point.

1633
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 3: Because he had heard of him, and we're like, this

1634
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:15,520
guy's gonna be good and then the Suns traded him

1635
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:16,319
like two weeks later.

1636
01:14:17,159 --> 01:14:20,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, what's because we went into summer League with

1637
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,720
with really the most pathetic summer league roster you've ever

1638
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,840
seen of too, Moni Kamara and ish Wayne Wright being

1639
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:30,119
the guys who like were featured, and so we.

1640
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 4: Were just clinging on to hope. We were like this too,

1641
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:33,640
Monti Kamara. Guy could be something.

1642
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,399
Speaker 3: But you know he looked awesome right away. Yeah he was.

1643
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:36,880
He was.

1644
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: He's I I mean, you guys like really trumped up

1645
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,560
his defense. Uh loaded word there. You really built up

1646
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,720
his defense. But the offensive development from him has just

1647
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,760
been I did not see it coming. Like he shot

1648
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,439
like a real volume of threes last year and hit

1649
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:55,279
them at a high clip, and there's some like straight

1650
01:14:55,319 --> 01:14:57,399
line drive stuff to what he does. And I don't

1651
01:14:57,399 --> 01:14:58,640
think I ever thought he was gonna be a five

1652
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,399
position defender base fantastic.

1653
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,159
Speaker 3: And I think there's still some screening stuff that you

1654
01:15:04,199 --> 01:15:06,359
can do with him that they haven't fully leaned into,

1655
01:15:06,399 --> 01:15:07,800
but they're going to find a way to do it.

1656
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: You're right, they probably need like actual spacing to like

1657
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,560
even try to make that work. And they've decided to

1658
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,840
punt on that even further for some reason. But yeah,

1659
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:18,199
neither here nor there. My hot take is is that

1660
01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:21,119
the Suns probably shouldn't have traded him now. In hindsight, yes,

1661
01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:22,560
I feel like they should have tried to keep him.

1662
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 3: That is the two Mani Kamara trade. Now. It is

1663
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:28,279
because he's the best player from that trade, you know,

1664
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:31,239
out of DeAndre and Grayson Allen use of Nurkic, you know,

1665
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:33,640
he's the guy in this Zier little if you remember,

1666
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:35,840
was in that trade as well. But yeah, that is

1667
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:37,279
he's the best player now.

1668
01:15:38,279 --> 01:15:40,359
Speaker 1: So this is another question for the two of you,

1669
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:42,439
and I know it's to some extent matchup dependent, but

1670
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:45,079
I'm going to force you to pick anyway, what is

1671
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:48,960
the most used or go to closing lineup for this team.

1672
01:15:49,079 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 3: It's a really good question. It might be the starting lineup,

1673
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:53,880
right probably.

1674
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 2: Just it's probably just the starting lineup unless one of

1675
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:59,960
these young guys is like far more advanced than works back.

1676
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 1: So is there like someone in particular youth circle is like, oh,

1677
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,159
I could see them wedging their way into the closing Vive.

1678
01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 3: Royce O'Neil, I think.

1679
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 1: That would have been my pick? Is overdone or something.

1680
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:11,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, or even potentially over Jalen Green. I hate to

1681
01:16:11,239 --> 01:16:13,159
say it, but like I think there's a world where

1682
01:16:13,399 --> 01:16:17,079
where Devin Booker, Royce O'Neill, Ryan Dunn, Dylan Brooks and

1683
01:16:17,119 --> 01:16:21,520
then a center could potentially play. It's tough to have

1684
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:25,039
that little ball handling, but if there's a team that

1685
01:16:25,119 --> 01:16:27,560
they need the defense over the offense, then it could

1686
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:27,880
be Royce.

1687
01:16:28,119 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: What about Colin Gillespie over Jalen Green.

1688
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,119
Speaker 3: Amy, I think there's a world where we're looking at

1689
01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:35,840
the net rating lineups that you know halfway through the season,

1690
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:36,960
and they're gonna break my heart.

1691
01:16:37,079 --> 01:16:38,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I could totally see it.

1692
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that I could see it. Like politically,

1693
01:16:42,119 --> 01:16:44,239
I would just be shocked if we see Colin Gillespie

1694
01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:46,720
closing games over I don't even mean to jump a

1695
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,760
dump excuse me on Jayalen Green, but just you're paying

1696
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:51,359
him so much money and if you want him to

1697
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:54,039
have any sort of trade value or force jail and

1698
01:16:54,119 --> 01:16:57,239
Green to quote unquote happen, I would just be like,

1699
01:16:57,239 --> 01:16:59,920
if he's not a regular member of the lineup that's

1700
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:03,119
closing games that you're trying to win, we have problems.

1701
01:17:03,279 --> 01:17:04,479
If I'm Phoenix.

1702
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, yeah, that could still happen, though, Like I'm

1703
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:10,760
not gonna leave it off the table. I just think

1704
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:13,000
the problem with the Suns are for the Sons is

1705
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:14,720
that not only do they need him to be good

1706
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,600
to potentially be good this year, I think they, you know,

1707
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:19,479
no matter what they say, I think they still view

1708
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,560
him as a potential trade candidate, so they need him

1709
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,479
to play in order to sort of boost that stock

1710
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:25,600
as well.

1711
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:28,039
Speaker 1: We'll start with you, Sam, is there a quirky or

1712
01:17:28,079 --> 01:17:30,239
weird old lineup you want to see Jordan not try

1713
01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:30,680
this year?

1714
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,039
Speaker 2: It's kind of similar to what we were just talking about.

1715
01:17:33,239 --> 01:17:37,760
I think, well, Mala watch at the four, right, but

1716
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:42,000
then pair that with let's say Devin Booker and Gillespie

1717
01:17:42,119 --> 01:17:44,640
in the backcourt. I think gives you like enough of

1718
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:50,239
a baseline of you know, gribbling, penetrative ability, shooting ability. Right,

1719
01:17:50,279 --> 01:17:53,479
So let's say Booker and Gillespie. Small ford of choice

1720
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,399
could be Dylan Brooks, could be Royce O'Neil, could be

1721
01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:59,159
Ryan Dunn. Just someone who's like, has the positional size,

1722
01:17:59,399 --> 01:18:03,239
has some shooting, and then malowatch and Williams and just

1723
01:18:03,279 --> 01:18:04,159
see what happens.

1724
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,119
Speaker 1: I want to see that front court, and I'd not

1725
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:09,159
even consider those two playing together until you mentioned something earlier.

1726
01:18:09,199 --> 01:18:10,239
I really want to see Malawa.

1727
01:18:10,359 --> 01:18:12,399
Speaker 2: I don't know if it'll look any good at all,

1728
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,319
but you know, I know both Malawatch and Mark Williams

1729
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,920
shot eighty percent from the free throw line in their

1730
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,079
respective places last year, and so can either of them

1731
01:18:21,079 --> 01:18:24,600
actually shoot NBA threes? No idea, but you have more

1732
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:26,640
reason to believe that they can than say, oh so

1733
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,600
or you know these other guys.

1734
01:18:29,399 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: Mike, do you have a weird O line?

1735
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:33,520
Speaker 3: I do? I do. I think I would go with

1736
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,199
Devin Booker at the point, guard, Royce O'Neil, Dylan Brooks,

1737
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:41,680
ohso a Gudaro, and then a center I like Mark

1738
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:43,600
will I'll say Mark Williams because I think it could

1739
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,279
be Malowatch as well. But I think there's a world

1740
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:49,479
where if you create a lineup where OsO a Guadaro

1741
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,640
is actually the second all handler, like that's his goal,

1742
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,079
that's his role. He has to do it, and you

1743
01:18:55,119 --> 01:18:57,920
can find ways to even potentially run some inverted pick

1744
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,239
and rolls with other guys sending setting screens for him.

1745
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,399
I actually really like the prospect of that. I think

1746
01:19:04,399 --> 01:19:07,800
Osaa Gadara was awesome in Summer League, and if there's

1747
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:09,720
some of that that translates to the NBA, I'd be

1748
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,840
really excited. But sort of basically, putting Devin Booker on

1749
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,800
the floor with a bunch of guys who could potentially

1750
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,880
play defense might be the best version of what the

1751
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,039
Suns could be next year as well. In those lineups,

1752
01:19:21,199 --> 01:19:23,079
it wouldn't shock me if we're looking halfway through the

1753
01:19:23,119 --> 01:19:24,720
year and that's the best lineups the Suns have.

1754
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,279
Speaker 1: This was not my choice coming in, but because you

1755
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,640
both sold me on Nigel Hayes Davis, I want to

1756
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:33,960
see Devin Booker at point, We'll go Dylan Brooks, Royce O'Neill,

1757
01:19:34,039 --> 01:19:37,119
Nigel Hayes Davis, and Osoi Goodaro. That's the lineup I love.

1758
01:19:37,199 --> 01:19:40,199
Speaker 3: That's fun. Yeah, that's a bunch of smart basketball players,

1759
01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:41,359
a lot of ball skills.

1760
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So before we get before I force you guys

1761
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,439
to make some predictions, is there anything anyone we haven't

1762
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:49,640
talked about that you think warren't some discussion.

1763
01:19:50,199 --> 01:19:52,279
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about literally every player on the

1764
01:19:52,359 --> 01:19:57,279
roster except maybe Jimbo Richards. Nick Richards, who we started telling.

1765
01:19:57,079 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: He's trying to sell me use tires. That's all I'm saying.

1766
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,279
Speaker 2: We are calling him Jimbo Richards because he's got a

1767
01:20:02,359 --> 01:20:05,159
little elbow jumper that he was breaking out towards the

1768
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:07,079
back half of the season. I don't really have anything

1769
01:20:07,119 --> 01:20:08,600
interesting to say about Nick Richards.

1770
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,359
Speaker 3: He's he's a player. They have to keep him because

1771
01:20:11,399 --> 01:20:14,239
Mark Williams is so, you know, injured injured.

1772
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he can be annoyed if he's playing over

1773
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,720
Malawatch though, that'll be something absolutely no emotional ties to

1774
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:21,279
the Suns.

1775
01:20:21,399 --> 01:20:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that would be insane.

1776
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 3: Nowise, I think we covered everyone.

1777
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:30,199
Speaker 1: So let's start here. Where do you how many games

1778
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:32,359
do you think this team can win? And where do

1779
01:20:32,399 --> 01:20:34,520
you see them landing in the larger context of the

1780
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:35,680
Western Conference.

1781
01:20:36,359 --> 01:20:38,199
Speaker 2: Well, I think I speak for all Suns fans when

1782
01:20:38,239 --> 01:20:41,399
I say that anything less than fifty five games one

1783
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,279
is probably going to be a disappointment. Based on where

1784
01:20:44,359 --> 01:20:45,720
where we're setting our expectations.

1785
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,560
Speaker 3: Is that Sam has one goal more games than the Rockets,

1786
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:49,960
I think is what Sam wants them to.

1787
01:20:51,159 --> 01:20:52,560
Speaker 4: That's not true, that's not gonna happen.

1788
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,119
Speaker 1: Happened in Houston for that to even be a reality.

1789
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:57,840
I guess Kevin Durant would really have to accelerate, like.

1790
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:00,680
Speaker 2: The Kevin Durant just does his things off a few

1791
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,960
tweets and then watch the turmoil begin.

1792
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to find out that Dylan Brooks was

1793
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,760
the most important player on that team. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah.

1794
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,239
Speaker 2: Uh. My serious answer to your question, Dan is, well,

1795
01:21:12,279 --> 01:21:13,079
how did you phrase it?

1796
01:21:13,119 --> 01:21:14,039
Speaker 4: A number of wins?

1797
01:21:14,159 --> 01:21:15,600
Speaker 3: Is that what you just if you want to get.

1798
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,239
Speaker 1: Like you could go floor ceiling, just get like, what

1799
01:21:17,279 --> 01:21:18,720
would be the number of wins that you think this

1800
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:19,960
team could realistically?

1801
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 2: So I the most recent over under I saw, I

1802
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,319
think was FanDuel at thirty one and a half, and

1803
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:27,920
I totally understand all of the various reasons to be

1804
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:30,520
pessimistic about this team. Also, the Western Conference is just

1805
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,720
a beast, you know, thirty one wins in the West

1806
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:34,760
might be the equivalent of say thirty eight in the

1807
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,399
East or something. But all that being said, I think

1808
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:39,199
thirty one and a half is a little bit low.

1809
01:21:39,319 --> 01:21:43,880
I think this team really can. My expectation is like

1810
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,720
thirty five. Maybe I had to just throw a number

1811
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:47,960
out there. They could be better, I think.

1812
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,079
Speaker 3: I agreed. I think I agree, and that's like basically

1813
01:21:51,159 --> 01:21:54,119
what they did last year. It's not much better or worse.

1814
01:21:54,159 --> 01:21:57,359
But I think that with them, if they're in in

1815
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,960
sort of the mode of competing for a playin spot,

1816
01:22:01,039 --> 01:22:03,640
that's sort of what I would expect. But the floor,

1817
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:05,720
if we're talking floor ceiling, the floor is really low.

1818
01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:07,760
And you know, if Devin Booker doesn't play a lot

1819
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,520
this year, they could be really really bad. A lot

1820
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,199
is going to write on how many games he plays.

1821
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,039
Speaker 1: I I always feel this is an interesting like in

1822
01:22:15,039 --> 01:22:17,159
a team, in a Sun's case where they feel so fringe,

1823
01:22:17,399 --> 01:22:20,119
how many teams would you be prepared to guarantee, like

1824
01:22:20,279 --> 01:22:23,439
specific teams that they're better than this year?

1825
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,279
Speaker 3: Because we just art with Utah.

1826
01:22:27,399 --> 01:22:29,560
Speaker 1: New Orleans might be the only two that I'm prepared

1827
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:33,720
to guarantee that's the Suns will be better than them specific.

1828
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,199
Speaker 3: Oh oh sorry, sorry, Okay, Yeah, you know.

1829
01:22:37,359 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 1: Look, I'm a big avid subscriber to Michael Porter Junior's podcast,

1830
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:42,960
and I think they're going somewhere.

1831
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:45,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the West. I think it's just the Jazz

1832
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:47,720
and then yeah, maybe the Pelicans that's it.

1833
01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:50,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then and then there's teams that you could

1834
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:53,039
question you know how close they could be to the

1835
01:22:53,039 --> 01:22:54,680
Suns at that point. The guy all the teams that

1836
01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:56,000
are competing for the playing spot.

1837
01:22:56,079 --> 01:22:58,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a team I didn't put this on

1838
01:22:58,279 --> 01:22:59,960
the outline, but like a good team in the West

1839
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,760
that you think they actually match up particularly well against

1840
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:04,119
based on how they're built right now?

1841
01:23:05,319 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 3: Hmm, not particularly They're so Sam, they're mentally solved.

1842
01:23:14,399 --> 01:23:16,199
Speaker 4: Ryan Dunn's going to be in his head.

1843
01:23:17,239 --> 01:23:20,239
Speaker 2: Uh Now A serious answer to that question.

1844
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 3: Not, I haven't thought about this. Actually. I think it's

1845
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:26,319
the starting lineup being relatively small compared to what they

1846
01:23:26,319 --> 01:23:27,920
can put on the floor makes it a little tougher

1847
01:23:29,239 --> 01:23:32,840
for me to find a good good matchup for them. Yeah.

1848
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:37,119
Speaker 1: So, Mike and Sam, can I get one additional son's

1849
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:39,359
prediction from you for this coming season? Can you could

1850
01:23:39,359 --> 01:23:42,319
take it wherever you want and I will let Mike start.

1851
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:46,439
Speaker 3: Oh, one additional prediction for the Sons, I will say,

1852
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:50,319
I don't think they're gonna have any stories about the

1853
01:23:50,359 --> 01:23:52,640
team being unhappy with the coach this year for the

1854
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,760
first time in four years. So that's that's my prediction.

1855
01:23:56,119 --> 01:23:58,960
I think there's a chance that this coach survives and

1856
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:01,159
it's not just another guy who's fired by the end

1857
01:24:01,199 --> 01:24:03,319
of the season. I mix. I think there's a chance

1858
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,079
that that people are talking about Jordan not in a

1859
01:24:06,119 --> 01:24:08,720
really positive way at some point of this season. So

1860
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,199
that's gonna be my predictions. Jordan not related.

1861
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,319
Speaker 4: So I'll go ahead and yeah, I mean, they're very

1862
01:24:14,399 --> 01:24:16,279
much just a team in flux. We all know that.

1863
01:24:16,319 --> 01:24:18,520
Speaker 2: So I'll go ahead and say that, you know, they've

1864
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:20,079
made a lot of moves at this point, but they're

1865
01:24:20,119 --> 01:24:21,880
not done. I think there's going to be some movement

1866
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,399
here at the deadline, probably in a boring way, though

1867
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,880
not in like an exciting for you know, this would

1868
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,439
suck for me, but for other people they hear that

1869
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:32,359
and say, oh, Devin Booker's on the trade block. Like,

1870
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:34,359
Devin Booker's not on the trade block. But there might

1871
01:24:34,399 --> 01:24:36,520
be a Royce O'Neil deal, there might be a Grayson

1872
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:40,119
Allen deal. There might be something interesting, mildly interesting that

1873
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:41,119
happens in February.

1874
01:24:41,359 --> 01:24:43,840
Speaker 1: For sure, they are, as we record this, like two

1875
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:46,880
hundred and seventy three thousand dollars into the tax and

1876
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,079
they are absolutely not staying there. So I would echo

1877
01:24:49,119 --> 01:24:51,039
that there's going to be some type of trade even

1878
01:24:51,039 --> 01:24:52,640
if it's super super tiny.

1879
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,520
Speaker 3: It's as simple as just Butler or Jordan Goodwin being

1880
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:57,920
waived too. So one of those two guys is probably

1881
01:24:57,920 --> 01:24:59,239
not going to be on the roster at some point

1882
01:24:59,239 --> 01:24:59,720
this season.

1883
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,359
Speaker 1: I thought they only had fourteen players, or maybe I'm miscounted.

1884
01:25:03,279 --> 01:25:05,560
Speaker 3: They I think they're going to go into the season

1885
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,520
with fourteen players. That's my anticipation because that's the easiest

1886
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,520
way unless they make a move, just as you're saying,

1887
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,279
dam But the easiest way for them to get under

1888
01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:15,800
the text, I believe is if they just don't roster

1889
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,560
all fifteen, which they did last year.

1890
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,640
Speaker 1: They rostered what they rostered last year.

1891
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:22,199
Speaker 3: Fourteen players.

1892
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, guys, As always, this was fantastic. Thank you

1893
01:25:27,279 --> 01:25:29,640
for giving me so much of your time. Are you

1894
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,439
able to tell our audience where they can find you

1895
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:33,960
in all the great work that you do? And I

1896
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:35,800
will begin with Sam here please.

1897
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 2: It says on screen at Scooper Hoops as Dan said,

1898
01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:43,760
that's me on Twitter. You did not see us on

1899
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:47,880
video because we are part of the witness Protection program

1900
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,720
because of all of the Kevin Durant stands. So if

1901
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,479
you work in the Houston media, good luck they're coming

1902
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,920
for you next and otherwise, what other good work.

1903
01:26:00,359 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 3: I don't think we do anything.

1904
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:03,560
Speaker 4: We just talk about the Suns multiple times a week.

1905
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,079
Speaker 3: Come check it out. Yeah, it's called the Timeline of

1906
01:26:06,119 --> 01:26:08,239
Phoenix Sun's podcast. You can find it in all the

1907
01:26:08,279 --> 01:26:12,399
places that podcasts are heard, or follow on Twitter at

1908
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,920
Protective Pip is mine one of my favorite podcasts.

1909
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:17,279
Speaker 1: Listen to the links to what will be in the

1910
01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:20,359
podcast YouTube description as well as to their Patreon, So

1911
01:26:20,399 --> 01:26:22,159
go check that out. Support to you guys to do

1912
01:26:22,199 --> 01:26:24,560
great work once more. Thank you guys so much, and

1913
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:26,600
as you know by now, I will be featuring you

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01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:27,560
again down the line.

1915
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:28,279
Speaker 3: Thanks An