Speaker 1: The following presentation is Del Marvis Studio's production.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Fact Hunter Radio Network.
Speaker 1: Here is your host, George Hobbs.
Speaker 3: Welcome back truth seekers from around the world. It's time
for a special presentation of the fact on our podcast
on this Tuesday, December two, twenty twenty five. I hope
everybody had a great Thanksgiving and a nice long, relaxing
Thanksgiving weekend as well. Today special presentation for you. We
are interviewing Sally Who do you are? He is the
Foreign Minister of the East Turkestan government in exile. He's
an advocate for East Turkestan independence. I know many of
you probably recall prior to COVID kicking off in twenty twenty,
this story made international news. The plight of the Wigers
and just all of the crimes against humanity that is
going on led by the CCP. And again this made
international news in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, and then COVID
happened and like so many other stories that just fell
by the wayside. Very interesting interview, a lot of insight
from mister Judiar who is working Tyler tirelessly to bring
you know, to free his people. So I hope you
enjoyed the interview and we'll see you on the other side.
Many of you remember in twenty nineteen, and we've mentioned
this a few times on the podcast, the plight of
the Wigers and what they were going through, and it
made international news. However, a flow a flu broke out
and their plate was kind of put off to the side.
So we'd like to welcome mister Hudiar to the podcast,
and if you would, sir, could you kind of share
your story how you came to the United States and
what early experience has shaped your identity and your political conviction.
Speaker 1: Sir, yes, personally, thank you. I was born actually in
East Takistan back in nineteen ninety three, so I'm quite young.
I was born in a predominantly weaker town in the
southwest of East Takistan near the Kyrgyzstan border, a town
called Atouche. And growing up in my town at that time,
there was no Chinese suttlers or no Chinese colonists. The
only Chinese that we would see was the Chinese military
that would, you know, come in once a week and
you know, put up a show of force like you
could say, a patrol My first encounter with the Chinese
government was in nineteen ninety seven, so right when I'm
barely even four years old, China began to crack down
on our nascent or resurging independence movement. And the reason
for this is after the fall of the Soviet Union,
the western part of Turkistan or what used to be
Turkstan became independent as Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, with Pakistan and so forth.
So this gave hope that you know, we too could
become independent again. And so this led to you know,
large scale demonstrations, civil acts of civil disobedience and demands
for independence throughout from nineteen ninety one all the way
to nineteen ninety seven. And in February of nineteen ninety seven,
the Chinese government carried out a large scale massacre to
suppress a peaceful demonstration in Rulja, which is in northwest
And after that, around the same time, the Chinese government
began to launch a so called strike hard campaign in
which they started against which they claimed was against national separatism.
So they began to raid our homes arrest anyone that
they suspected of being a so called separatist, anyone who's
you know, wants East Pakistan independence. They raided our home
as well because one of my relatives ended up what
was seen or reported to be seen by a neighbor
or someone else, of reading a so called separatist book,
a book about our history, our history when we were
an independent nation, which is banned. So they raided our
house in the middle of the night searching for this book.
Then they imprisoned him. And this was my first encounter.
Was during the night, they you know, put their rifles,
pointed their Ak forty seven's at everyone's head, including mine,
threatening to kill us if he didn't contest to his crime.
So that was my first experience with the Chinese government.
I didn't know my father at the time. My father
had fled in nineteen ninety five following protests across in
East Tarkistan. He fled the country into Central Asia, and
by nineteen ninety eight he ended up here in the
United States. So China began to essentially crack down, you know,
lay the foundations for what became the ongoing genocide that
we see today in the nineties, in the late nineties,
especially following CCP Document number seven, which is a top
secret directive issued by the CCP Pulp Bureau Standing Committee
the top seven members uh, you know, top seven leaders
of the Chinese Commerce Party on preventing East tar Kistan's independence.
So they included measures such as moving more Chinese colonists
East Tarkistan, more Chinese military deployments in East tra Kistan,
suppressing our culture, our religion, our historical you know, uh
texts to even you know, waging a campaign of propaganda
to demonize and to alienate and marginalize our independence movement
in the international community, to including infiltrating our diaspora organizations,
winning over most of them to China's side, and then
using all means literally this is the text of directive
uh of document numbers and using all means to prevent
the inter nationalization of the East Pakistan problem, highlighting that
East Pakistan independence was the greatest threat to China's so
called security stability, et cetera. And they accused, even at
that time, they accused the United States or Western counter
revolutionary forces led by the United States of supporting you know,
national separatism or East Pakistan independence, even though that was
not the case. So, of course China is paranoid of
you know, the US and others of supporting of potentially
supporting our independence movement, which if the US did, it
would be it would be you know, you would think
you would see change in the situation, we would be
able to achieve our independent So my father fled to
the US in nineteen ninety eight, and in two thousand
and with the help of the US embassy in Beijing,
we were able to get visus to reunite with my
father period and we ended up moving. My father lived
in Oklahoma, so we ended up coming to Oklahoma immediately
after we came. So this is my father played a
pivotal role in my upbringing in the sense that immediately
after he took us from Dallas, Fort Worth picked us up,
took us to his apartment. He sat us down and
he said, I want you to remember, well, I want
you guys to not forget where you came from. And
I want to explain to you why I brought you
guys here. I brought you guys here so you could
become educated and you could do the things that I
couldn't do. That so you can one day return to
our homeland to free our homeland and our people. And
so he explained our history. Are you know that we
were an independent nation before? And essentially he wanted both
my older brother and I to be military officers. That
was his dream as well. So he was too. He
was you know, he tried to enlist when he came
to the US because but when he because of his age,
he was like thirty something at the time, and then
he had like four kids. So they're like, sorry, dude,
I can't h you have too many kids. Yeah, I
can't help you here. So I my brother ended up
joining the Navy, and he I think he's up. He
ended up doing I think special Forces. My older brother, myself,
I wanted to I wanted to do the army. I
ended up joining the Oklahoma Army National Guard while doing
ROTC at the university. And then during that period, my
I during training, actually it was when I was forebetting
that I had an emergency appendectomy and then when they
did a scan of my abdomen and body and they
discovered I had like kidney stones and so that and
I ended up turning into policist to kidney disease, and
that's what killed off my military career. So I ended
up studying international studies and political science at the University
of Oklahoma. And then around that time, as I'm finishing
up college, you know, my bachelors, our family members were
losing contact with our family members. In each circust, our
people are being thrown into are being thrown into concentration camps.
Is starting like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, when all of
this starts to really get some international attention or it's
starting to be noticed, even though China has started this
as early as twenty twenty twelve twenty thirteen. Officially, China
launched its ongoing campaign of genocide as the so called
People's War following Hijinping's visit to East Cirkistan in April
of twenty fourteen, in late April of twenty fourteen and
where he visited Chinese paramilitary basis and stated that you know,
this is the front line of so called terrorism, a
China's fight against terrorism, and that China needs to show
absolutely no mercy. This is where he makes that famous
speech of showing no mercy and arresting and alienating an approved,
approveding us from our roots, and crushing those who need
to be crushed. And so this is what launched the
genocidal campaign and over the years by twenty eighteen, by
the summer of twenty eighteen, the United States government began
to slowly, you know, start speaking out, and at first
at the UN where they highlighted that millions of our
people were being thrown into these concentration camps with China
called re education centers. Then by twenty nineteen, even the
Pentagon or the US War now War Department released in
their reports stated that you know, they believe that at
least accord according to their assessment, anywhere from three to
four million US and other Turkic peoples had been thrown
into concentration camps China. This is when you know, there
was some attention in twenty nineteen an early twenty twenty,
and China itself denied this of course and claims that
you know, they're providing us with re education and vocational training.
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't that interesting When you hear about the re
education camps around the world, people just say they're conspiracy theories.
But when I was doing my research what the whiggers
were dealing with in uh what was what's the area
in China where they're mostly is it Xingjiang? Is that
how it's pronounced.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the Chinese they renamed these Turkistan to shin yioan,
which means in the Chinese language, it means the new
territory or the new frontier.
Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense. And just so people know, it
is to be a wig. Or does that mean you
were Sunni.
Speaker 1: Islam majority of our people, yeah, practice Sunni Islam.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So would you say that this whole persecution
and are these numbers? I'm just looking on Wikipedia, so
forgive me, but eleven million? Does that sound correct in China?
Speaker 1: So China claims that we are about eleven million, but
that's far from the fact disputed. In the fact that
you know, we believe our number is much higher based
on historical data. When we were in an independent country
in nineteen forty six, our government stated our population was
seven million in nineteen forty. December nineteen forty nine, after
malth took over East tar Kaistan, in a letter he
wrote to Stalin, he stated that there were nine million
Turkic peoples in East Pakistan. Similarly, in twenty eighteen, Chinese
state media shin Hua, which is their official state media,
they reported that between twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen, they
collected the DNA samples, voiceprints, and retina scans of thirty
six million so called minorities meaning non Chinese peoples anyone
that's not Han Chinese they label as minorities in so
called Hinjong in East Turkistan between the ages of twelve
and sixty five. So, if you have thirty six million
between the ages of twelve and sixty five who are
non Chinese, and we are the overwhelming majority in East
Turkistan of all the turk ethnic groups ninety of the
Turkic ethnic groups as so, out of that, you can
assess that the true population is somewhere around forty thirty
five at least forty million, wow, with all the other
Turkic people combined, probably forty five million. Of course, China
downplays our number historically, they've always downplayed it for key reasons. One,
it's to you know, make us feel like, you know,
to feel like a so called minority. Two, it is
to deny and to deprive of which it has been doing,
our right to self determination. You're an ethnic minority. Ethnic
minorities don't have those rights to national self determination. This
type of narrative because again, if you think of it,
how can you keep a population of thirty forty forty
million people under you know, deprive them of their rights.
These aren't minorities, especially when we make up the majority
in East tarkust On.
Speaker 3: You know, I've done some research and it seems to
me that there's a lot more going on in these
internment camps, concentration camps than just re education. I've read
reports of for sterilization of oregon harvesting and a forced
labor as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is this is precisely why they collected
our DNA samples as part of the organ harvesting. They
want to match it to potential donors. You know, this
is if you look at China's organ harvesting data prior
to twenty fourteen, there is about five to six thousand
oregon transplants happening in China. Post twenty fourteen, after w
Wars and other Turkic people's have been thrown into the camps,
it's skyrocket to over fifty thousand. Experts like organ experts
on oregon harvesting, like Ethan Goodman, he conducted a lot
of research on this and focus using China's own data
and using you know, other data that he found, like
for example, the fact that our organs are being sold off,
like you can buy quote halal organs. Wealthy Muslims can
go to China and buy halal organs. Where are these
halal organs coming from, obviously, you know, not not from
the Chinese. It's coming from the Wi Wars, because the
were the Muslim population in the circus on that China
is killing China's government also, you know, specially in East Cirkustan.
There are lay anes at airports in East ta Kistan
and you can only find these lanes only in East Pakistan.
You won't find them any part of China. Only in
East Takistan. That says for organ transplants, only special lanes
at the airport. They started building crematorium post twenty thirteen,
they started building crematoriums across Eastern Kistan. We're predominantly Muslim
majority people. We don't cremate our dead, we always bury them.
But China began building these crematoriums across East tur Kistan
more than any part of its own, you know, actual China.
So there's that our people in these camps. China's own
official white paper from twenty twenty September twenty twenty claims
that they sent every year between twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen,
they sent one point twenty nine million people per year
or seven point eight million people from twenty fourteen to
twenty nineteen to re education and vocational training and provided
them with jobs and uplifted them from poverty, and that
they uplifted three and a half million people from poverty
and provided them with stable jobs, which means they're enslaving
three and a half million of our people as forced
labor across these various factories inside East Tarkustan and across
you know, China. This is what this is the aspect
in the camps, people are being tortured. You know, anyone
who refuses to denounce their own ethnic, religious identity and
worship the CCP worship the Chinese state is tortured. Our
women are being are systematically raped in these In these camps,
a lot of our people are dying, whether it's from
torture or from oregon use me from organ lessia alogies
from organ harvesting, or from you know, disease in these
camps through tuberculosis and other other disease.
Speaker 3: That's let me ask you this, do you believe this
is a targeted religious aspect or is it just anyone
who is not like us is going to be persecuted.
Speaker 1: It's not about religion. That's one thing that we need
to make very clear. It's not solely about religion. It's
about occupying control over our land and our resources. We're
not Chinese. That's the basis of it, is the fact
that we are not Chinese. Because there are Chinese Muslims.
There are ethnically Chinese Muslims. In fact, there's ten fifteen
million of them called Ways. Physically they look Chinese, but
they practice Islam and they are not being targeted. Why
because again, those they are in China, they're ethnically Chinese.
The Chinese government doesn't have any fear of you know,
them ever wanting to break apart or wanting to be
free from Chinese rule because it's their own people or
as East Turkistan as the Chinese call it, Shinjong, which
literally translates as the new territory. It's new to China.
It's being colonized by China. So China has this fear
that if they don't eradicate us, that we will rise
up and that we will get our independence back. This
is the fear and precisely, actually it's more than that.
If you know anything about China's Belton Road initiative, East
Turkistan is the cornerstone of China's Belton Road initiative. Without
an East Turkistan, there is no Belton Road. And you
gotta look into why China unveiled the Belton Road. It's
not solely about you know, development and trade as China
portrays it. It's actually has a more in the furious
military role. And the reason for this is we can
go back. You can find it on YouTube. It's a
lecture at China's National Defense University that took place in
November of two thousand and nine. It's about the future.
The Chinese title is the dismemberment of China by the
United States two thousand and thirty or the future war
between the United States and China, which they speculate will
happen around twenty thirty. And in that the Chinese leaders
say the Chinese military strategies are like, what is the
biggest weaknesses that we have right now? What is preventing
us from taking Taiwan? And they all, you know, they
all try to figure this out. Of course they know
the answer, the telling it to their audience, which is
senior military officers and government officials and intelligence officers, and
they're all few different things. You know, Oh, we're not
economically sufficient enough. Oh we're you know, the US would
support Taiwan. Oh we're not militarily capable enough. And then
the key lecturer, Daishu, who later became the head of
the Chinese National Defense University. He's a PLA Air Force general.
He says, No, it's the East Takistan problem. This is
the biggest issue that we have. This is the biggest
thing that is preventing US from taking over Taiwan. Because
he states in that this is November two thousand and nine.
He states, if he pulls up the map of Chinese's look,
if we were to launch an invasion of Taiwan, the
first thing the United States is going to do is,
whether it's teaming up with India or Japan, they will
blockade the Strait of Malacca, which is a narrow strait
in close to China in the Southeast Asia, where eighty
percent of China's trade. Sea based trade goes through the
Strait of Malacca. Eighty percent of their oil natural gas
imports go through the Strait of Malacca. And you need
energy to wage war. You know, if you don't have
the fuel, you won't be able to sustain a long
war effort. And he highlights that he said they will
they will block this. So our option to deter this,
to circumnavigate this would be to go through land, would
be through implementing and bringing in and conducting our trade
and oil imports and natural gas, et cetera through land,
and that is through East Takastan. And the reason that
this is a big problem is because the people here,
they're not Chines. If the United States and China were
to go to war, the United States could easily armed,
this is what they said, could easily arm three hundred
thousand to half a million. We would overnight and they
would cut off our west to east pipelines and we
would lose that war. This is why this is a
strategic issue, and this is why we He states that
China needs to address this immediately, and he said, on
the surface, we're going to play it off as counter terrorism.
This is the best way to, you know, convince the
international community to do. What we need to do is
to play it off as counter terrorism, but of course
we know that's not true. He states it openly. Then
he goes on praising Osama bin Laden for keeping America
busy for eight years and giving China the opportunity to develop,
and states that you know he would have awarded been
Laden if he had been you know, if if he
if the Chinese leaders had asked him for his advice,
he would have It has been all these types of things.
But this is where the Belton Road Initiative starts. So
in twenty thirteen, changing thing unbuilds the Belton Road initiative
because again, what is the Belton Road. It's about key
strategic control over key strategic ports, railways and pipelines. It's
too you know, China's preparing for war and they want
to ensure that they have happened. They have a backup
plan absolutely, and thes we historically, you know, we have
We unlike the Tibetans, we're not. We're not so much
as pacifists in the in that sense, right, we we
will fight, we will rebel, which we have. We have.
In fact, over the past seventy six years there's been
over two hundred cases according to the Chinese government zone
data of you know, uh mass protests, including dozens of
cases of armed attempted armed uprisings over the past seventy
six years. So they know that we will we will
fight back if we are given that opportunity. And this
is why they want to ensure that there is no
possibility of us being even considered in the event that
war does break out, of being even considered as a
flank against China when that conflict with the United States
or whatever power between China and whatever power over Taiwan
or over even you know, China's eyeing parts of Siberia,
so they might invade Russia as well, So we don't
we don't know. So this is what it's about. So
this is why they are targeting our people because they
know that their own Chinese people are going to remain
loyal to the Chinese state. This is why in the
concentration camps they force everyone to they indoctrinate them and
urged them to you know, they pressured them, tortured them
to swear loyalty to the Chinese state and the Chinese
Commerce Party, and not alonely with that over they took
over a million of our children from their parents and
put them up into so called state run boarding schools,
but which are essentially internment camps for children. H China
actually in prior to like in the early two thousands,
had it initiated a so called bilingual program to kill
because this is part of Document number seven calls for
that approoding of our culture and linguist language and religion,
and in that by so called bilingual program. The reason
they call it bilingual is from elementary all the way
to high school, it's Chinese. After you graduate high school,
then you can choose to learn Wiger in college if
you want. By that time you're in dat fully in
doctor nate, you're not going to want to learn your
own language. But the problem with this was, at the
end of the day, even though you force them to
learn Chinese at schools, at the end of the day,
they're returning to their families. They're returning to their own homes.
They're returning to their parents who speak weager with them,
who keep you know who you know. Despite the aspects
of them being trying to be cynicized and simulated to
become Chinese at schools, their parents still you know, pressure
them and say, hey, speak, we will this is our
culture where this you know, still teach them that. So
to to overcome that, They're like, oh, we have this problem.
We're still not effectively assimilating these people, these their children.
So what do we do? We separate them. This is
what the Chinese government did. It. Over a million of
our children have been forcibly separated. And we're talking about
kids as young as two three, like three four years old, toddlers.
We didn't have pre ks. They're from pre k all
the way to high school. All of our kids are
taken from their families to become fully assimilated as Chinese,
to become the Chinese government states. They're transforming them into
loyal Chinese citizens. And you'll see Chinese state media and
Chinese videos where our children weak gred children we're talking
about toddlers are being instructed by Chinese military officers, soldiers,
and they're being dressed in Chinese military miniature PLA uniforms
and vowed. You know, they're all screaming oats to become
the future soldiers of China, to fight against the Americans,
to fight against the so called foreign imperialists, and to
fight against the so called terrorists, meaning our own people.
This is the uh, the indoctrination that they are undertaking
on that level, all of our youth, especially our young men,
anyone that's of military age, the Chinese have essentially put
into either using them for oregon harvesting or take him
off out of East Pakistan, putting him into factories across
China to dilute them. Across our borders. If you can
see the map behind me, we border Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, Tibet.
We have a border with nine different you know, nine
different independent countries right now. And so because China again
is paranoid because of that fear, they've relocated our people
two hundred kilometers. Like so, if there we were towns,
many of them have been ethnically cleansed. Chinese soldiers who
went on these ethnic cleansing operations they testified about this
how they undertook, you know, how they undertook secret missions
where they ethnically cleansed the entire you know, the villages
of yours in the mountainous areas near the borders two
hundred kilometers all of within two hundred kilometers of our borders.
They've displaced us of our people and replaced them with
Chinese settlers because again they're fearful that if war breaks out,
some force is going to come from the West, so
they want to ensure that it's the Chinese people that
you know, they're peel paramilitary force the XPEC that intercept them,
and not our own people who would then welcome those forces,
you know, and join them to fight against China.
Speaker 3: So here's the million dollar question for you. Our government,
pardon me, is one hundred percent aware of not just
what's going on with the plight of your people, but
the forced labor, the stories of the child labor that
they work seven days, twelve hour shifts, almost like in
little camps. Yet our government in riches China. I think
they're responsible for close to twenty percent of the total
value of US imports. So where does the government walk
the line between you know, fiscal responsibility and moral responsibility.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean the United States government has the will
Forced Labor Prevention Act. We have this law which prevent
was supposed to prevent goods produced with the slave labor
of ers from coming into the US and to a
certain extent it has, but China again has circumnavigated this
because it only focuses on goods coming out of East Takistan.
So what China is doing is they're transferring our people
into Chinese provinces where they are you know, being used
as slaves. And so those made in China products the
origin is not so called Shinjiang or East Rakistan but
x y z Chinese province. So this is the way
that China continues to keep plotting it. Then you have
you know, multinational corporations like Apple, Amazon, GM, all of
these various virtually every industry that are involved in in
you know, forced labor, that are using these supply chains,
and so they are lobbying the US government to you know,
take a softer stance on China to let them continue
to do business as usual. And so this is why
the US government is being ineffective in its response. But
most importantly, nobody is really addressing the root of the issue.
Because again, as as as I stated the root of
the shoe, we're not Chinese Muslims, as like the media
falsely portrays us. We're not ethnically, religiously culturally any but
related to the Chinese in any way. In fact, we're
not even racially Asian. We're more Indo European. We're more uh,
you know, ethnically, we're an Indo European people. So this
is this is the problem. It's the issue is rooted
in Chinese colonization and occupation of these sort of stuff,
and that's why this is the aspect that needs to
be also uh invoked. We need to also push for
a political solution using established international uh you know laws
such as you know, the right to self determination, decolonization
uh granting of independence, to call colonial peoples and occupied
nations to you know, upholding the Genocide Convention the US
officially recognizes to this day. Since twenty twenty one, they've
recognized what China is doing to our people as genocide
en crimes against humanity. The UN called it crimes against humanity.
Other governments across the world called it genocide and crimes
against humanity. Yet nothing is being done because again corporate
interests are getting involved. But what they're not understanding is
that by failing to act against what China is doing
in East turkas On, the United States and these Western
countries are actually losing their own competitive edge, because what.
Speaker 4: Is China doing.
Speaker 1: It's flooding the global market with cheap goods. How are
these goods being able to be produced so cheaply when
the cost of labor in China when the average salary
of a Chinese worker they're making about fourteen fifteen thousand
dollars a year, So we're we're not this is not
the China of thirty years ago that where the average
salary was two thousand dollars a year. They've caught up.
So how are they doing this because again they're using
our people as slaves to produce these products. A lot
of Western companies are going out of business because they
can't compete every industry China. Virtually every industry, from the
automobile industry to you know, the electrical electric vehicle industry,
to solar panel industry, to computer industry, to the phone industry,
to even the AI industry. The Chinese are stealing Western
technology and then producing a copy of that and then
exporting that to the world, killing off virtually entire Western economies.
So by temporarily, you know, for that selfish temporary gain.
Not only are these companies complicit in genocide, colonialism of
you know, East Takistan and the Ugur people and the
slave slabler of our people, the slaveman of our people.
But they're complicit in their own downfall and in the
downfall of Western societies as well in Western government. So
this is why the United States needs to support. It's
in the US national interest both economically, politically, and morally
to support you know, an independent East Turkistan because without
without again, without East Takistan, China is much much weaker.
There is no Belton Road. You kill off the Belton
road right there. Secondly, East Takistan makes up roughly one million,
eight hundred and eighteen square kilometers, or about one fifth
of the total territories of what is now known as
the People's Republic of China or the area is under
the control of the People's Republic of China. We are
we make up over forty percent of China's oil and
natural gas reserve that the PRC claims that they have
forty percent of that is from East Kakistan. Over sixty
percent of their coal reserves is from East Rakistan. We
also have, you know, a lot of critical minerals, which
again is becoming key in today's industry because critical minerals
is necessary for creating everything from you know, weapon systems,
advanced weapons systems, to the chips that we need for
the very computers and bones that we use day to
day every day. And all of that again is in
East Turkistan. And this is why China is so reluctant
to lose control over East Turkistan is because without an
East Turkistan, you know, even if they didn't go to war,
without without East Turkistan, China would be severely you know,
we can economically and politically because again, our electricity, the
electricity from East Turkistan powers over one hundred and twenty
Chinese cities in twenty Chinese provinces, in actual provinces of China.
We are their industrial base. Even from a military perspective,
you might have heard or read about it President Trump
saying that, oh, you know, I need to get background
back or the US needs to get background air force
based back, because it's an hour away from where China
builds its nuclear missiles. That's in East Turkistan. China is
all a majority of China's nuclear missile intercontentabilistic missile silos.
It's actually also it's AI databases and farms are all
in East Takistan because the reason China Kina did that
is again, it's preparing for a war in the Indo Pacific,
so it wants to push everything further away to where
if war does break out, it'll be they think it'll
be much harder for the US to strike those, you know,
critical facilities. But from a military perspective, again, East Takistan
is strategically vital for all reasons to weaken China. This
is eastern independent. East Takistan is the best but for
the United States, and not just for the United States,
but for virtually any country that wants to break free
from you know, China's choke, because China is choking the
globe right now. It's choking every industry. Every country is
either becoming reliant on China or they are being coerced
by China to where you know, a lot of countries,
especially neighboring countries, whether it's like countries of Central Asia,
small countries, they're essentially becoming de facto vassal states of China.
Speaker 3: Now, this is all really fascinating to me, and the
fact that I'm pretty aware of the military strategies that
go around the world. I was in the military for
twenty four years, and I spent five and a half
years in the Middle East, and I've never heard anyone
mentioned East Turkestan as a strategic asset for China and
the way you're describing it. And it's fascinating because if
they do happen to try to take to Wan Taiwan,
pardon me, then obviously that's going to be a secondary
logistic route for them to get their their supplies. Is
there any politicians here in the US that are truly
helping your cause or are they doing the normal politicians
thing where they smile, shake your hand and then go
about their day.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the few ones that did truly support our cause
they are no longer you know memor of Congress or
that they have, you know, thee they have died, they're
no longer living. Unfortunately. The rest, I mean, yes, they
talk about our issue.
Speaker 2: You know, you have.
Speaker 1: You had Secretary Rubio, who's are When he was the Senator,
he was our biggest champion. But since he became secretary,
he's been kind of mute on our issue. Unfortunately, because
this is politics in Congress, you know, occasionally they'll you know, criticize,
you know, the CCP, but they won't really focus on
the actual aspects. For example, what we've been trying to
call for is at least start preparing, like, you know,
don't wake up and be like, oh, tomorrow war breaks out,
What the heck are we going to do? At least
start preparing just how the Chinese are preparing. At least
you start preparing.
Speaker 5: To for that.
Speaker 1: Yes, we hope war war is avoided, but if it
does happen, you need to be prepared. And in fact,
in military strategy, sometimes the best defense is a good offense.
And so this is this is something that we have
to be prepared for because the longer we continue to
you know, stay silent to China, the longer we continue
to appease China because of minimal economic temporary economic interest
that in twenty years won't matter anymore. No, because in
twenty years it won't matter anymore the Chinese. Like just
this week, the former FBI director was saying, the Chinese
has collected the data of virtually every American citizen. Every
American in the United States has all of their data
collected by China. Because of the lack of you know,
counterintelligence and the lack of proper you know, safeguards that
the US has not been doing putting up because we
underestimate our enemy. So right now we don't really have
a real champion of East Turkistan unfortunately. About what we
are saying is at least treat us on par with Tibet.
For example, nobody the US government doesn't refer to Tibet
as She's on. They refer to Tibet as Tibet, She's on,
is what the Chinese call it. Historically, if you look
at maps, historical maps, whether it's produced by the US
or others, it always stated East Turkistan. And the nineties
the United States used to call us East Turkistan. So
we need to revert back. That's one thing that we're
asking is treat us on par with Tibet. You recognize
Tibet as the US government and Congress recognized Tibet as
an occupied country, you know, start treating East Takistan the
same way. There's a special coordinator for Tibetan issues at
the US State Department. The Tibetan government in exile and
Tibetan communities in exile, they receive a lot of political, economic,
and other types of support from the United States government.
We need the same thing when it comes to East Takistan,
and the United States needs to actually start thinking strategically
and be like, you know, what would an independent ease
Trakistan look like? How would this look if we go
to war with China? What would we need to do?
You know, you have to from a military and strategic perspective,
you have to try to weaken your enemy, to try to,
you know, prevent your enemy from having the upper hand.
And East Turkistan is the Achilles Hills of the Chinese
Empire from all aspects, whether it's from the economic aspect,
from the cultural aspect, or from a military aspect. This
is why China is so bent on trying to wipe
us out, enslave, wipe out a certain percentage, enslave a
certain percentage, and then gradually assimilate the rest. Is because
we have always been a big headache ever since China
invaded US in nineteen forty nine. We've been constantly resisting
at any opportunity that we we've had, and China knows
that if we are giving another opportunity, the international community
for greater another great for the actual country would support US,
you know, with providing us with real support, not lip service,
then it would be game over for China. And that's
why China essentially what it's doing. You could say, some
experts put it out as preventative repression, that China is
doing this to prevent you know, the fall, you know,
a similar outcome to that face by the Union.
Speaker 3: Is it fair to say that everyone who lives in
East Turkestan is under full martial law under the CCP.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, there's no freedom whatsoever in East Turkistan. In
East Turkistan, the Chinese government before they started sending people
to the camps, they sent Chinese officials. They sent two
point two million Chinese officials as part of the Pair
up and Relatives program. So the government assigned you a
relative to every household and he would come monitor you,
to assess your loyalty, to grade you from zero to
one hundred. If you had less than ninety points, you
were deemed a risk and you had to be quote
re educated, a social credit score. Basically. Yeah, but you
have Chinese officials spending an entire week every month with you,
monitoring you, sleep with you, eating with you, you know,
and we're Muslim so they'll bring you alcohol. If you refuse, extremists,
you just lost ten points. They'll offer you a cigarette.
You could refuse to smoke a cigarette for health reasons,
for whatever reasons, but again, because you refused it, you're
an extremist. You've been exposed to extremist religious thought. If
you practice any form of religion, whether it's Islam, Christianity, Buddhism,
any form of religion, you lose another ten points. If
you're a young person under sixty five and you have
facial hair, if you don't shave, if you have even
this much of a beard, you're an extreme extremist. If
you're a young man and you have jim stuff, you know,
like weights, a bench, you're an extremist. You're in fact,
you're a violent extremist because you are training. You're not
training to improve your health or to look good for
the girls. You're doing this because you want to rebel
against the Chinese state. This is this is the insane
level of uh paranoia that they have. So if you
have anyone, if you traveled overseas, you're you're a security risk.
You have to be re educated no matter what. If
you have contact with anyone, overseas. I you have relatives overseas,
like in case of my relatives, all of them were
forcibly re educated because taken into these concentration camps because
again it's a security risk. This is the insane level
in fact they're they promoted this on social media, on
Chinese social media and Chinese state media Chinese and all
these officials are males, and so they're sleeping in the
same bed under the same cover as our wives, as
our mothers, as our daughters. And you won't see a
single uber mail in the picture because again they've already
been taken into the camps. Initially between twenty fourteen and
twenty sixteen, it was men between the ages of fifteen
and forty five, those the Chinese government stated were prone
to become radicalized. In other words, anyone who's of capable
military age. This is the insane level of control that
they have, the fear of paranoia, Like they won't even
allow us to have knives. Every household is allowed one knife,
one kitchen knife, and that's chained to your kitchen ball.
In addition to that, there's a barcode on that knife,
and that barcode if you scan that it has your
entire family's data on there. So if this knife were
to be found somewhere else, your entire family is going
to pay the price. Cigarettes I mean lighters, lighters. You
won't be able to find matches I mean matches in
need struts down because again China's paranoid and fears that
all the wagers will use the tip of the matches
to create explosives UH and attack us. So this is
the level of paranoid that they have UH to where
virtually every aspect of our life is controlled. They're the
technology and unfortunately this is where Western companies played a
vital role in helping this and possibly dated it because
they wanted to test out UH their latest technology is.
They provided it China like facial recognition UH, cameras and
surveillance systems. Two where virtually our entire country, every corner,
even in the villages, every corner there's the there's cameras.
You have They call it convenient police stations, which is
manned by like two three police officers. Literally at every
five hundred meters you have convenient police stations. The level
of paranoia, you can't go from one part of your
own city to another part without having a special path.
This is the level, the level of paranoia that there
isn't in the country. In East far Kistan. If you
have celf phones, you know, if you have cell phones,
you're required to install a mandatory government app, and that
app analyzes everything in your phone. If there is anything
remotely political, remotely religious, remotely anti Chinese, remotely cultural, it
notifies the nearest police station and they come and get you. Wow,
this is essentially what's happening in East Rakistan. East Turkistan
is not only a surveillance state, but it's like uh,
you know Georgia Oilworld's nineteen eighty four or in reality,
in real life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy because that's we hear these and it
sounds like a dystopian future, but it's happening right now.
It's just unbelievable. One major misconception, I know you only
have a few minutes left, but one major misconception is
that everybody in China is Buddhist. What I've come to
find out is China is one of the most atheist
populations in the world, and it's because it's pushed by
the CCP.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I mean China itself. The PRC is an empire.
That's what many people don't understand. China, you know, is
the part that is where the Great Wall is. Everything
inside the Great Wall is the act China. Everything out
outside is you know, to the north is Mongolia and Manchuria.
To the west is East Pakistan and Tibet. It's an
empire that is built on subtler colonialism and occupation. This
is why East Takistan is the most heavily militarized zone.
And before in China they had they like the Chinese people,
they they you know, they were Taois, they were Buddhists,
but under the CCP because it outlawed. Essentially they're prior
to a resurgence and you know, some religious freedom after
opening up. Part of the opening up, uh the deal
that they made with the West is okay, China is
going to open up to the world. We're going to
be less, you know, brutal. They allowed religions to you know,
have comeback. But then immediately they realized, oh no, this
is these these what this religions. You know, Tibetans are
going to want more freedom, leaders are going to want
more freedom. This is going to create more problem. So
they've been clamping down. Now they're centesizing all religions again.
Even Christianity is controlled by the state. Your christian you know, pastors,
your clerics are all Chinese government officials, like they appoint
who becomes your leader, and they make sure that even
in the case of your wars. Right now, religion is
completely banned. But before, prior to twenty fifteen, what they
would do is they had rewritten versus you know, of
the Quran to so the Quran that they would teach
was a corrupted version to where anything like, for example,
in the Quran it says, you know, the verses that
says fighting defending your homeland against occupation, against oppression from
you know, from oppressors. All of those verses were removed
and instead replaced by things like, oh God tells you
to you that you have to obey the authority, that
you have to you know, praise the Communist Party even
to that that level, even though there was no Communist
Party when you know, But this is the level of
revisions that they have. Most of our mosques in East
Rakistan have been destroyed. The only ones that are open
is only for tourist purposes. They've turned it into you know,
uh museums essentially to where tourists come. They can still claim,
oh yeah, we we're still we still have religious freedom,
but many of them have been destroyed. Some have been
transformed into toilets, into public public toilets, into pigstizes, into
bars and clubs as a you know, as more cultural
humane upon us. But majority of the Chinese population today, unfortunately,
are atheists because that's what's being indoctrinated by the Chinese state,
by the Chinese Commist Party. From the time you're born
till the time you die. That's constantly the propaganda that
you are, an indoctrination that you are subject to. And
that's why even the Chinese people themselves, even though we
don't really have a whole lot of problems with the
Chinese people, and our problem is with the Chinese state,
they support the Chinese states, you know, colonial occupation and
genocidal policies because again China says that you know, they're
doing it for the betterment of the Chinese people and
that you know, if they get rid of us, there's
more land, more opportunities for the Chinese people themselves. So
this is the propaganda, an indoctrination that they have undertaking
for the past you know, seven decades since mal took over, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's incredible if you look over the last twenty
five years, churches and mosques in the Middle East and Europe,
obviously East Turkistan and now Nigeria, Pakistan. This is a
worldwide movement. And if people in the United States, if
they think it won't or can't happen here, I mean
that that is really the end game for a one
world government. I have two more questions for you before
we wrap it up. Do you have any as the
foreign Minister of the East Turkistan government in exile, do
you have any direct pipelines to anyone with any pool
in this country.
Speaker 1: I mean we have communications and we have you know,
we engage with people in the government, if not regularly,
semi regularly, but as far as pool, they're not like
senior you know, top senior officials that could move things unfortunately,
so I mean they're members of Congress from one side,
and then there's other others from other branches of the government.
But it's not like senior officials that could be like
all right, let's do this, do this. It's just low
you know, lower to mid level officials.
Speaker 3: So here's the question moving forward, how can and we
have listeners from around the world, not just here in
the United States, going forward, what can we do to
make change? You know what, what's your plan moving forward?
What can we do to you know, to put the
Communist Party in check? And it's it's a difficult task
because once again, China is responsible for twenty percent of
our imports. So I mean to say, a war would
make World War two when we were everything was rationed,
I mean, it would be next level, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I mean again, you don't have to go
to war to do this, right, I agree, right, right, Yeah,
there's a myriad of options. For example, one again, we
need to pull out from China economically, we need to
divest to other countries, to countries that are not going
to turn around and cause you know, chaos and becoming
you know, a threat to our freedom, to our security,
et cetera. This is why already it's already happening. You know,
many companies are moving out into Vietnam, into India. In fact,
I would advocate for bringing some companies back to Latin
America to ease the migration issues and problems that the
US is facing as well, because those people why are
they coming to the US because they want better job opportunities.
So take that, you know, move your companies back. Plus
it will make it more cost effective as well, to
you know, Latin America, to Africa, to you know, other
countries other than you know, China, because every dollar that
we give, you know, let's say we buy something that's
made in China for a dollar, at least you know,
two three percent of that is going to go into
the conferences of the Chinese state, and that Chinese state
is going to use that to one create, you know,
to continue committing genocide, but to to you know, build
up its military to threaten the sovereignty and security of
other nations. So from that perspective is you know, economically,
press our corporations, press our governments to you know, push
you know, to divest. Either bring it back home, you know,
because we need jobs, agree with that, bring it back home.
The ones that aren't you know, that we aren't able
to bring it back or that's too costly to bring back,
you know, bring it to another country that we have
a good relationship with, a country that values human rights,
that respects you know, the sovereignty and security of other countries.
That's one option. Secondly, we need to push back against
China politically. When I mean politically, I mean through international
laws and institutions for example, which you know, everyone believes
that colonialism has ended, but colonialism is still alive, and
it's alive through China. China is the last really colony
left in the world, the colonial power left in the world.
We need to push for decolonization. We need to push
for you know, the independence of East Takastan, Tibet, South Mongolia.
And we can do this through international you know, using
international laws, international institutions, supporting those peoples and nations right
to self termination, recognizing the fact that they are occupied nations,
providing them with moral and spiritual support. This is the
things that brought down the Soviet Empire. For example, we
have something called the US has something called the Captive
Nations Law, and it reaffirms it was initiated in nineteen
fifty nine, and it reaffirmed every year and to this
day we still do it. It reaffirms America's you know, support,
solidarity and support for the recovery of freedom and independence
of those captive nations. We along with Tibet, were listed
as a captive nations in Turkestan and Tibet were listed
as a captive nation in that law, but in recent decades,
because of the close political and economic ties with China
are to those two countries are not being regularly mentioned.
And it stipulates that it's in the US interest and
it is policy for the US to through through a
through its available means, and at the very least really
right that the US shares the aspirations of those people
to recover their freedom and independence. So that's something that
needs to be re re reinvoked. Then we need to
hold China accountable for the crimes, for the genocide, for
the the and the genocide of the American people as well.
Like roughly, you know, close to two million Americans died
because of the virus committed you know, created by China,
because of the coronavirus, and to this day, we still
don't have accountability for that. To this all of our
data has been stolen by Chinese hackers, Chinese government hackers
through Operation uh Salt Typhoon, through virtually every Americans data,
all of our you know, phone data has been stolen.
Our government hasn't effectively responded to that. We haven't you know,
pushed Chine on that, we haven't held China accountable for that.
There are so many different ways that we can pressure
China and hold them accountable without directly getting into war.
In fact, China is waging war through all means except
conventional warfare against the United States. They're using political warfare
against us. They're using drug warfare against us, be a fentanyl,
they're killing off America's future, and but the a fentanyl,
they're you know, using economic esponage to steal America's latest technology.
They're infiltrating virtually, and have been infiltrated virtually every aspect
of society and government. So these are things that need
to be pushed back against. We need to, in fact,
we need to use China's own playbooks that they're using
against the United States against them. This is the way
to win without going into a direct mentional war.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know, if you look at the very first
two sentences of the Nuremberg Code, it talks about the
voluntary consent of the human subject being absolutely essential, and
it talks about having the individual having autonomy, not being
forced or enduring any duress and on. I think if
there was a local shop that I knew that was
harming children and doing the things they do, I wouldn't
spend a dime in their business. And here we are
twenty percent of our you know, imports come from a
country that is doing exactly that. And it's it doesn't
matter if you're if you're Muslim, if you're a Christian
like myself, or just a decent human being. Nobody should
should stand for this type of activity. And it's kind
of sad to see how the world works when we
know that so much evil is going on and we're
allowing these people to flourish and just enrich themselves like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we have to wake up. We have to,
you know, as our responsibility because consumers have a lot
of power. It's just don't buy those buy some something alternative,
you know, right to those companies, to those corporations, right
to our senators, our congressmans, and tell them, you know,
do something about this, because this is not just going
to impact the wars. I mean it's already impacting us,
but this will impact future American generations as well, because
China's not gonna stop with us. We with these circus
on or with Tibet. It wants Taiwan tomorrow. Then after
that then it's going to be like, oh, I want
a bigger piece. I want you know, Siberia. Then you know,
it'll be like, Okay, that's not enough. I'm gonna take
the Philippines. One day it won't be enough and they'll
be like, oh, you know, I want I want Hawaii,
I want Alaska, all these different things, and one day
you're gonna wake up and it might not be this generation,
but your grandparents, your grandchildren's generation. If we don't act today,
your grandchildren's generation will be that generation that will face
similar atrocities that we are facing today.
Speaker 5: You know, the.
Speaker 1: Chinese occupation might come to the US, you know, borders
by that generation if action is not taken today to
stop the expansion.
Speaker 3: Again, this was mister Sally who you are, and we
have his website East dot Turkestan dot net, Facebook, YouTube.
All of that will be in the show notes and uh,
I'll give you the last word.
Speaker 1: Sir.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time today. It's very
eye opening.
Speaker 1: Thank you again for giving this opportunity to shed light
on this crisis. And we hope that the American people
and all people of the world will you know, do
their part to at least learn more about what's happening,
to inform others, and to you know, you know, try
to bring about any change, even if it's at at
a small level. You know, drops in in a bucket,
you know, small drops end up, you know, becoming a bucket.
Speaker 3: Well said, and again, thank you so much for your time, Sally,
who do you are? The Foreign Minister uh the East
Turkestan government in exile, stay in touch, keep us informed
of the ongoing events, and our prayers are certainly with
you and your people, Sir, thank you for having so
There you go. I hope you enjoyed the interview as
much as I enjoyed the conversation with mister who do are?
I also wanted to add that I've reached out to
advocates for the Christians in Syria. If you didn't know,
before the Civil War started in two thousand and eleven,
there were well over two million Christians in Syria. Fast
forward fourteen years later, there are less than three hundred thousand.
And we see the same thing going on in North Korea,
Nigeria that's been in the news a lot lately, so
we've reached out to some advocates and we hope to
get them on the podcast in the near future as well.
Podcast News. I am looking to do another one this week,
so look for another podcast to drop. If I can't
have it done by Thursday night, then I'll drop it
again on Sunday night. Thank you all for your continued support.
Have a great rest of your week, and of course
is always the email address is the fact Hunter at
mail dot com. Again, it's the fact Hunter at mail
dot com. God bless you have a wonderful week. Keep
your head on a swivel, in Christ in your heart.
Until we meet again, my friends, we will see it.
Speaker 4: I know it's been struggle. I know you've had spain.
I'm not feeling tied.
Speaker 2: Held down by all the way. Yeah, I know you
feel the more you smile ain't the same I saw
you way going from you. I feel like you've lost
your way.
Speaker 6: Don't give it. No, don't give it.
Speaker 4: Never is home.
Speaker 6: Don't they call the primise. It ain't done yet. He's
got a plaid. Why it's away? Time got up? Let
me come.
Speaker 4: Why God MC, I can see the street beside you
childs are putting up the fig. Oh, you're stronger than
any thing. You are. Yeah, you're gonna be all right.
You're accepting it. A dead found you.
Speaker 6: Beautiful.
Speaker 4: You're shoving ride.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're living, breathing, moveing.
Speaker 4: You can hold your head a pie.
Speaker 6: Don't give up, No, don't give in. Never loss home.
Don't let gone on the primes me ain't done Yet's.
Speaker 7: God, I'm letting wins a way down.
Speaker 6: The God of Me became. We don't give up.
Speaker 4: No, don't give in you never lose home, don't.
Speaker 6: Let go on the primise.
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Speaker 7: What's a play down the God of Babel?
Speaker 6: Why spray down? God speA record? Oh yeah, what a pray.
Speaker 7: Down the god baby? Oh yeah, God spec.
Speaker 6: Oh, don't give.
Speaker 4: Up, No, don't give in. Never's home?
Speaker 6: Do they go on the primise?
Speaker 5: I mean and this God, I'm saying watching God of
if it comes, don't give no dog given, but never
this hole. Don't let go of the crimes getting done.
Lover is worth living, Watson and God of.
Speaker 6: A comes, Oh, the God of needs.
Speaker 4: Watch dog God of A.
Speaker 3: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network.
Speaker 6: Just the facts ma'am,