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Speaker 2: Kid evening at just twenty one years of age, friends
Speaker 2: Todd Wilson and Scott McCarthy were virtually inseparable. The pair
Speaker 2: reported for duty at United Bank of Denver at six
Speaker 2: am on Father's Day nineteen ninety one, McCarthy's first day
Speaker 2: on the job. They joined two more experienced guards and
Speaker 2: began making their rounds. By nine thirty am, all four
Speaker 2: were dead. The killer then descended upon the cash vault,
Speaker 2: where he held six petrified tellers at gunpoint before absconding
Speaker 2: with nearly two hundred thousand dollars. Eighteen days later, the
Speaker 2: Denver Police Department arrested one of its own. Not only
Speaker 2: had retired Sergeant James W. King served on the force
Speaker 2: for twenty five years, he'd recently been a guard at
Speaker 2: United Bank, often complaining about the abysmal security, including a
Speaker 2: decision to disarm its guards, but would he slaughter four
Speaker 2: of his unarmed successors to prove his point and risk
Speaker 2: a date with the execution chamber. Deadly Heist is the
Speaker 2: uptivating story of one of Colorado's most notorious crimes, and
Speaker 2: of a courtroom slugfest that would take a jury nine
Speaker 2: grueling days to resolve. It's verdict, delivered a year and
Speaker 2: a day after the bloody massacre, reverberates across the Rocky
Speaker 2: Mountains to this day. The book that we're featuring this
Speaker 2: evening is Deadly Heist, The true story of the Mile
Speaker 2: High Bank Massacre, with my special guest, attorney and author
Speaker 2: Stephen b Epstein. Welcome back to the program, and thank
Speaker 2: you very much for this interview. Stephen b Epstein, pleasure
Speaker 2: to be with you. Thank you so much. Tell us
Speaker 2: first off, how you came to be interested in this story.
Speaker 3: Well, I had written three true crime books about relationships,
Speaker 3: romantic relationships that were at the center of each story,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to try and get outside of that
Speaker 3: box a little bit, and I ultimately decided I want
Speaker 3: to see if there was a bank heist that hadn't
Speaker 3: been well covered in a book form. Previously, and I
Speaker 3: did just a little bit of trolling on the Internet
Speaker 3: and somehow came across the story of the Father's Day
Speaker 3: Bank massacre in Denver, Colorado, and instantly fell in love
Speaker 3: with it. And did my research learn that although there
Speaker 3: was a book that had been written about it, it
Speaker 3: was written a very long time ago by one of
Speaker 3: the lawyers involved in the case. It was written with
Speaker 3: a slant, and I thought there was definitely room for
Speaker 3: an objective book about this case, particularly with things that
Speaker 3: we now know that maybe he didn't know back then,
Speaker 3: and I decided to take a stab at writing it.
Speaker 2: You take us to June sixteenth, Denver, Colorado, Father's Day,
Speaker 2: Father's Day morning, the cash Register building for the United Bank.
Speaker 2: Tell us why it's called the cash Register Building. Tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about the United Bank in Denver.
Speaker 2: Told us as you do in this introduction.
Speaker 3: Sure, so, this story starts on June sixteenth, nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 3: Father's Day, and as of that time, the United Banks
Speaker 3: of Colorado was the largest bank bank system bank company
Speaker 3: in the state of Colorado. And the building that was
Speaker 3: completed in nineteen eighty one in downtown Denver, that's fifty
Speaker 3: two stories that bore its name. The United Bank building
Speaker 3: became known as the Cash Registered Building because its upper
Speaker 3: floors curved together, kind of an architectural marvel in the
Speaker 3: shape of an antique cash register. And even though there
Speaker 3: have been numerous other tenants in that building over all
Speaker 3: these years, that moniker has stuck and that has been
Speaker 3: the most iconic building in Denver Skyline since it was
Speaker 3: completed over forty years ago.
Speaker 2: You introduced two security guards, weekend security guards, Bill McCollum
Speaker 2: and Phil Mankov, and you'd tell us about their routine
Speaker 2: day that morning, tell us what they were doing, where
Speaker 2: they were and what happened.
Speaker 3: So they parked in the parking deck that there's a
Speaker 3: three building complex. Actually the Cash Register Building is the
Speaker 3: most prominent of the three. But actually where these guys
Speaker 3: worked in the guard monitor room was under Lincoln Street,
Speaker 3: which is the street that was between the Cash ridge
Speaker 3: To building on one side and two smaller buildings that
Speaker 3: were part of United Bank on the other side. So
Speaker 3: they went into the cash redge To building, went down
Speaker 3: an elevator to what's called the Concourse level, and they
Speaker 3: zigzagged their way through some hallways to begin their twelve
Speaker 3: thirty am shift, which was the graveyard shift that lasted
Speaker 3: a full twelve hours until twelve thirty pm. They were
Speaker 3: supposed to get off at twelve thirty in the afternoon
Speaker 3: On Father's Day. They were to man the monitor room
Speaker 3: and also do routine guard rounds throughout the three building complex.
Speaker 3: Phil Mankoff had been doing that for just about three
Speaker 3: months and Bill McCollum had been doing that for about
Speaker 3: eight months. He was the more experienced of the two.
Speaker 3: He was forty one years old. I'm sorry, he was
Speaker 3: thirty three years old, and Phil Mankoff was forty one
Speaker 3: years old. These were both they both had weekend jobs.
Speaker 3: Their day jobs were very different. This was to make
Speaker 3: additional money on the weekends. They were paid all of
Speaker 3: five dollars and forty two cents an hour, and importantly,
Speaker 3: they weren't armed because a new policy had gone into
Speaker 3: effect just a few months before that prevented any of
Speaker 3: the guards for United Banks throughout their whole system from
Speaker 3: carrying firearms.
Speaker 2: Now you say they usually worked alone till the next
Speaker 2: shift of guards arrived at twelve thirty pm, but often
Speaker 2: they would have to train a newly hired guard during
Speaker 2: a swing shift. Tell us about twenty one year old
Speaker 2: Todd Wilson.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, Todd Wilson had previously worked in United Banks
Speaker 3: credit card fraud department, but that was actually wiped out
Speaker 3: as part of a merger with a bigger bank called
Speaker 3: or West that had literally just completed the merger with
Speaker 3: the United Banks in April of nineteen ninety one, and
Speaker 3: he needed another gig, and so he was offered a
Speaker 3: position as a security guard. He was a Metro State
Speaker 3: College student. He was legally blind. He had a very
Speaker 3: difficult time seeing because of a condition he was born with.
Speaker 3: He was going to Metro State College and he was
Speaker 3: best friends with a guy named Scott McCarthy who went
Speaker 3: to a different high school across town. They became friends
Speaker 3: as dishwashers when they were in high school, and Scott
Speaker 3: McCarthy actually was coming to work on the swing shift
Speaker 3: with Todd Wilson on his very first day of training.
Speaker 3: He didn't even have a uniform yet. Todd Wilson came
Speaker 3: to work at six am with his uniform and Scott
Speaker 3: McCarthy came to work in street clothes and cowboy boots.
Speaker 2: Now you're right that there was another collection of employees
Speaker 2: at the bank on Sunday that were called armored tellers
Speaker 2: who worked in the cash vault just down the hall
Speaker 2: from the guard monitor room. That's correct.
Speaker 3: There were six of them working that morning. Their job
Speaker 3: on Sunday mornings was to basically collect the cash that
Speaker 3: was delivered by armored cars Wells Fargo and Limis that
Speaker 3: came eight eight thirty in the morning, and then they
Speaker 3: would Their job until two or so in the afternoon
Speaker 3: was to count the money to make short corresponded with
Speaker 3: what the various bank customers were reporting on their reconciliation sheets.
Speaker 3: They were depositing in the bank, and they each had
Speaker 3: their own little cubicles or teller booths and they would
Speaker 3: count the money. There was a lot of money in
Speaker 3: each of those stations that was being counted by those
Speaker 3: six employees, led by an employee who was their supervisor
Speaker 3: named David Baranco.
Speaker 2: And you say people might not think that it would
Speaker 2: anybody could rob a bank on Sunday, or why would they.
Speaker 2: Between seven thirty and eight thirty and armored armored cars
Speaker 2: from Loomis and Wells Fargo would deliver an average approximately
Speaker 2: one million dollars in cap that's correct. That's correct.
Speaker 3: A lot of money got delivered that morning on Father's Day,
Speaker 3: and it was scattered throughout these six color stations being counted.
Speaker 3: When the events that begin the book commence.
Speaker 2: Tell us what happens that morning when those guards are
Speaker 2: on their route through the building.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, so at various points in time, you've got
Speaker 3: different combinations of the four security guards, the two older guards,
Speaker 3: Phil Mancoff and Bill McCollum, and the two younger guards
Speaker 3: the twenty one year old Scott McCarthy and Todd Wilson,
Speaker 3: various combinations of them in the guard monitor room and
Speaker 3: doing rounds throughout the bank, and in particular, Phil Mancoff
Speaker 3: took Scott McCarthy under his wings and was basically showing
Speaker 3: them how to conduct rounds, how to use what was
Speaker 3: called a Marquee card to swipe into various secure areas,
Speaker 3: how to use various keys, how to use the elevator,
Speaker 3: and so forth. And so at nine fourteen that morning,
Speaker 3: you had Bill McCollum and Phil Mancoff and Scott McCarthy
Speaker 3: in the monitor room and the phone rings, and what
Speaker 3: happens is man Coff takes the call and learns that
Speaker 3: there is somebody at the freight elevator who says he's
Speaker 3: a vice president of the bank named Bob Bardwell, got
Speaker 3: his marque card and he needed to be escorted into
Speaker 3: the building. This was a fairly common occurrence happened fairly
Speaker 3: routinely on almost every guard ship, where employees would forget
Speaker 3: something they would need to get into the bank, and
Speaker 3: they would be met at the freight elevator at street
Speaker 3: level by a guard who would then bring them down
Speaker 3: to where they needed to go. And so at that
Speaker 3: point when he called, man Coff dispatched Bill McCollum to
Speaker 3: go greet this vice president at the freight elevator. So
Speaker 3: that's when the events begin that we're concerned about. At
Speaker 3: nine fourteen am.
Speaker 2: You write it on the screen in the monitor room,
Speaker 2: there was an indication that alarm had gone off in
Speaker 2: Stairwell CE, not far from the freight elevator.
Speaker 3: At nine to twenty, that's correct, And so that required
Speaker 3: some investigation, and Mancoff was able to radio Todd Wilson,
Speaker 3: who was making rounds, and directed him to go to
Speaker 3: Stairwell C in order to check out what had caused
Speaker 3: that alarm.
Speaker 2: Now you take us in nine twenty four and Phil
Speaker 2: Mancoff and Scott McCarthy are sitting in the monitor room,
Speaker 2: but they're watching television or watching something on VHS tape.
Speaker 3: That's correct. They're watching a sitcom or a drama from
Speaker 3: TV that had been recorded on VHS tape on a
Speaker 3: very small TV in corner of the monitor room. They're
Speaker 3: actually not even watching the monitors that they're supposed to
Speaker 3: be watching, and they all of a sudden hear footsteps
Speaker 3: behind them. Now at this point, two of the other
Speaker 3: two guards have been dispatched to perform various tasks, man
Speaker 3: Coff to escort Bob Bardwell into the building and Todd
Speaker 3: Wilson to check out the alarm and stairwell cease. And naturally,
Speaker 3: if they're sitting there watching the show and they hear footsteps,
Speaker 3: they're going to assume it was one of the two
Speaker 3: of them, But it wasn't. Instead, it was the man,
Speaker 3: whoever he was, who wreaked more havoc on the city
Speaker 3: of Denver than had occurred in many decades, because what
Speaker 3: happened was he ordered man cough and McCarthy to get
Speaker 3: up from their chairs, marched them into an adjacent room
Speaker 3: called the battery room, had them get down on their knees,
Speaker 3: hands behind their heads, and before they even knew what
Speaker 3: was happening, pumped a revolver full of bullets into their
Speaker 3: heads and torsos, killing them instantly.
Speaker 2: You're right that. Even worse is that Scott McCarthy wanted,
Speaker 2: always wanted to be a police officer, and this was
Speaker 2: his first day as a bank guard.
Speaker 3: Yes, he was also a newlywed. He in fact, Todd
Speaker 3: Wilson had been the best man at his wedding the
Speaker 3: prior August. He had been married to his wife for
Speaker 3: less than a year. They were high school sweethearts. It's
Speaker 3: as tragic in every way imaginable that on his very
Speaker 3: first day he was gunned down and didn't have a
Speaker 3: chance to even complete a single shift as a bank guard.
Speaker 2: You're right that. Meanwhile, Todd Wilson is confused looking for
Speaker 2: stairwell c. He's only fifteen days into his training, so
Speaker 2: he decides to head back to the monitor room to
Speaker 2: find a map to help him. What happens in the
Speaker 2: monitor room.
Speaker 3: Well, nobody's there, and he finds that surprising because even
Speaker 3: though he's still fairly early in his training, he knows
Speaker 3: that that's a cardinal rule that the monitorom has to
Speaker 3: be manned at all times. So he steps toward the
Speaker 3: use shaped console that has all the monitors they're supposed
Speaker 3: to be looking at, and at around nine twenty six,
Speaker 3: within two minutes of when he entered the room, the
Speaker 3: murderer comes up from behind him and we know from
Speaker 3: where the bullets entered his body. He was shot in
Speaker 3: the back and shot in the back of his head
Speaker 3: and drops to the ground and he's dead too.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, with the armored couriers gone, the tellers were at
Speaker 2: their stations processing money checks and food stamps. This is
Speaker 2: ninety eight tellers David Twist, Maria Christian with their boss,
Speaker 2: David Baranco, and they saw somebody walk by. What do
Speaker 2: they do?
Speaker 3: A blur of motion and Twist says to the other two,
Speaker 3: did you see that? And Baranco says, see what he said.
Speaker 3: There was a guy in a suit, well dressed guy,
Speaker 3: And eventually they all spot him and he's walking in
Speaker 3: the opposite direction and they start to head toward him.
Speaker 3: They're wondering who they think. He's somebody associated with the bank, obviously,
Speaker 3: and he's well dressed. And the next thing they know
Speaker 3: the guy is starting to walk toward them, and he
Speaker 3: pulls out a gun, and it's very clear they're being
Speaker 3: held up. Those are three of the of the tellers.
Speaker 3: There are another three, and eventually five of them are
Speaker 3: made to lie down on their stomachs and not look,
Speaker 3: put their hands over their eyes. And then the robber,
Speaker 3: the well dressed robber, by the way, he's in disguise.
Speaker 3: He's wearing a fedora hat, he's wearing dark sunglasses, he
Speaker 3: has a thick, bushy salt and pepper mustache, and he's
Speaker 3: got a band aid over his left cheek. So it's
Speaker 3: very hard to make heads or tails of him other
Speaker 3: than he's white. He's about five eleven six feet, maybe
Speaker 3: about one hundred and eighty pounds, and that's all that
Speaker 3: we really know about this guy. So he asks who's
Speaker 3: the head cashier, and nobody answers, because that's not a
Speaker 3: title that's actually used. Eventually, Bronco volunteers that he's in charge,
Speaker 3: and the robber has him get up and starts taking
Speaker 3: him around, has him get a black leather satchel and
Speaker 3: has him go from station to station, filling it up
Speaker 3: with strap bundles of five tens twenties and fifties to
Speaker 3: start getting the money that he's there to rob them of.
Speaker 3: What he doesn't know, and in fact, what even Bronco
Speaker 3: doesn't know, is that one of their number, a teller
Speaker 3: named Nina McGuinty, never actually wound up with the group,
Speaker 3: and she's hiding under her desk in her teller booth
Speaker 3: behind a garbage can, shaking hysterically. And at the time
Speaker 3: that Baronco brings this intruder, this robber who at this
Speaker 3: point they don't know is a murderer. By the way,
Speaker 3: they have no idea he's killed anybody. He's literally his foots,
Speaker 3: his feet are right up against Nina McGuinty, and Baronko's
Speaker 3: trying to protect McGuinty because he spots her and does
Speaker 3: that successfully. McGuinty stays under her desk the entire time
Speaker 3: this happens. The intruder is there for about eight minutes.
Speaker 3: He then locks the group, everybody except McGuinty, up in
Speaker 3: a man trap and they can't get out because it's
Speaker 3: locked from the outside. There's no way to get out,
Speaker 3: and he's gone. At nine fifty six, He's gone. Chapter
Speaker 3: one is entitled forty two minutes, because the whole thing
Speaker 3: starts at nine fourteen, and by nine fifty six we
Speaker 3: know from various security systems he's departed the cash vault,
Speaker 3: never to be seen again.
Speaker 2: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop to hear
Speaker 2: these messages. Now you're write that a woman named Daniel Taylor,
Speaker 2: associated with the bank, arrived at the bank shortly after
Speaker 2: ten am, and she was a twelve year she had
Speaker 2: been employed for about twelve years there investigations unit of
Speaker 2: the Risk and Bank Security department. What does she find
Speaker 2: when she gets to work, which is unusual.
Speaker 3: Well, she usually her the Risk and Bank Security department
Speaker 3: is literally right next to the guard monitor room, and
Speaker 3: she usually goes to a door that she can buzz.
Speaker 3: The guards just outside that back door to her department,
Speaker 3: and they would buzz her in, but she kept on
Speaker 3: buzzing and there's nobody there, and that's never happened to
Speaker 3: her before. I mean, there's supposed to be somebody in
Speaker 3: the monitor room at all times. Eventually she's able to
Speaker 3: make her way around to the other side of her
Speaker 3: department and the door there that's supposed to be locked
Speaker 3: actually opens right up. So she's very suspicious of why
Speaker 3: there's no guard, but she has work to do. She
Speaker 3: wants to get out of there. It's the weekend. She
Speaker 3: starts working until eventually somebody from what's called the proof
Speaker 3: department comes up to her and says she's been trying
Speaker 3: to get a guard to get her into the cash
Speaker 3: vault so that she can get the checks because they're
Speaker 3: supposed to go over the checks that were delivered that morning.
Speaker 3: And now Danielle Taylor is very, very suspicious because something's
Speaker 3: clearly not right. Eventually, she winds up going to the
Speaker 3: lobby of the Cash registered building, where there's a collection
Speaker 3: of security guards associated with the building that have nothing
Speaker 3: to do with the United Bank, and she said, have
Speaker 3: you seen any of our guards recently? And they say no,
Speaker 3: that they it was curious to them they haven't seen
Speaker 3: them in a while because usually they pass by when
Speaker 3: they're making their rounds. And it was about that point
Speaker 3: when the six' five i'm sorry hysterical tellers who'd broken
Speaker 3: out of the man trap that they were locked up
Speaker 3: in get to the lobby of the cash register building
Speaker 3: and tell the guards there And Danelle taylor they'd just been.
Speaker 3: Robbed Remember nina McGuinty is still back at the cash,
Speaker 3: vault hiding under her desk the man trap that they escaped.
Speaker 3: From there was no way for them to get back
Speaker 3: into the cash, vault so they weren't able to rescue,
Speaker 3: her and they had no idea if she was.
Speaker 2: Okay very interesting you talk About Patricia western camp on
Speaker 2: patrol police officer has a response to an all points
Speaker 2: bulletin at ten fifty three possible robbery at The United
Speaker 2: bank At, denver and you write that she scoffs at
Speaker 2: the idea of a bank being robbed On.
Speaker 3: Sunday, yeah let me, see it seemed. Ludicrous it seemed
Speaker 3: outlandish that somebody would come to a bank and hold
Speaker 3: it up on a day that the bank wasn't.
Speaker 2: Open by the.
Speaker 3: Time she gets, there she learns as the first one to,
Speaker 3: arrive and shortly dozens More denver police officers learned that
Speaker 3: it really, happened that the bank had been, robbed the
Speaker 3: intruder was at, large and they had no idea at
Speaker 3: this point that security guards had been massacred viciously and
Speaker 3: were dead lying in pools of their own.
Speaker 2: Blood let's talk about that discovery of those guards and
Speaker 2: then they discover, three but are looking For bill. McCollum that's.
Speaker 3: Correct so you have, McCollum who's the first one found
Speaker 3: because he's lying right there in the main space of
Speaker 3: the monitor. Room Todd, Wilson i'm, Sorry Todd wilson is.
Speaker 3: Found he's the first. One then they eventually get to
Speaker 3: the battery room where they see actually McCarthy draped over
Speaker 3: the body Of Phil. Mankoff so they've accounted for. Three
Speaker 3: but they knew they had already been in touch with
Speaker 3: the security people at the bank and knew that four
Speaker 3: guards were on, duty and so basically in all, points
Speaker 3: bulletin goes out That bill McCollum is no to be,
Speaker 3: found and they initially believed he was probably, complicit if
Speaker 3: not the arm. Bandit now the problem with that Was
Speaker 3: bill McCollum Is African american and the reporting from the
Speaker 3: cash vault was that the intruder was, white so that
Speaker 3: didn't quite match. Up but still he was nowhere to be.
Speaker 3: Found so they eventually literally dispatched a swat team to
Speaker 3: his apartment clear across the other side Of, denver thinking
Speaker 3: that he was the bad, guy but eventually learned from
Speaker 3: what they found there that he probably, wasn't and it
Speaker 3: wasn't until five thirty that, evening as they were as
Speaker 3: the swat team was going through all three buildings that
Speaker 3: they finally were able to locate, him also dead in
Speaker 3: what was called the incinerator, room one level below where
Speaker 3: the Guard Monitor room and the cash vault were. Located
Speaker 3: he was in the, corner shot in the head, bleat
Speaker 3: he had bled out and he was, Dead and it
Speaker 3: became clear fairly early on that when he was dispatched
Speaker 3: to the freight, elevator he was basically taken hostage by
Speaker 3: the murderer and brought down the elevator all the way
Speaker 3: to the lower concourse, level marched to his. Death and
Speaker 3: then at that point the murderer took his, keys took
Speaker 3: his marque card and was able to use those to
Speaker 3: traverse basically the bowels of The United bank building and
Speaker 3: get to all the places he needed to, go including
Speaker 3: the Guard monitor room and the cash.
Speaker 2: Flow you're right that there's three separate crime scenes to,
Speaker 2: investigate and they have The mosler system recorded in its
Speaker 2: memory when and where door alarms and motion detectors in
Speaker 2: the bank complex had, activated as when as well as
Speaker 2: when they were turned on and. Reset and then also
Speaker 2: you write that another march them control computer recorded each
Speaker 2: use of the marquee card to gain access to the
Speaker 2: office or department in which employees card was. Used so
Speaker 2: tell us what else they deduce from examining these three crime.
Speaker 2: Scenes what do they conclude early?
Speaker 3: On, well probably for we'll condense it because there's a
Speaker 3: lot that they. Learned but the most significant findings were
Speaker 3: in the monitor. Room so the monitor room is where
Speaker 3: the security feeds from security. Cameras and mind, you they're
Speaker 3: black and white security. Cameras this is, old old. Technology
Speaker 3: but the feeds all come to BASICALLY tv screens or
Speaker 3: monitors in that, room and that's what its purpose, was to,
Speaker 3: make you, know to keep your eyes on what's going
Speaker 3: on throughout the bank based upon these. Cameras one of
Speaker 3: the cameras was actually in the monitor room to monitor the,
Speaker 3: guards and it was known by the guards at that
Speaker 3: time that THE vcr that recorded from that camera was
Speaker 3: located in a locked suit supervisor's. Office, well wouldn't you know.
Speaker 3: It what they found was that the murderer had desperately
Speaker 3: tried to break in to the locked supervisor's. Office he
Speaker 3: had tried to kick in the. Window there was a,
Speaker 3: footprint a shoeprint on that. Window he had tried to
Speaker 3: shoot the doorknob. Off the bullet had shattered into numerous
Speaker 3: pieces and made a huge dent in the doorknob that.
Speaker 3: Office and he also tried to kick in the wall
Speaker 3: to the adjacent storage, room trying to get in through
Speaker 3: the back way and ran into plywood that foiled that.
Speaker 3: Plan but there was dry wall that had come off
Speaker 3: the wall and was on the floor where he tried
Speaker 3: to kick it, in which made it very clear that
Speaker 3: this person who was in the guard monitor room killing these,
Speaker 3: guards knew that THAT vhs tape could be his undoing
Speaker 3: if that camera was actually operational and recording at the
Speaker 3: time he was in the monitor. Om those were probably
Speaker 3: the most significant findings that they.
Speaker 2: Made and what of those tapes that eleven of those twelve, Tapes.
Speaker 3: Yes so twelve tapes were recording from the different security
Speaker 3: cameras are way throughout the. Bank, basically if you remember
Speaker 3: WHAT vhs recorders or video recorders were like then, VCRs
Speaker 3: you had to pop out the tapes through a cassette.
Speaker 3: Deck eleven of the twelve VCRs had their cassette decks
Speaker 3: hopped out and the cassettes were, gone they were. Swiped
Speaker 3: only ONE vhs record OR vcr still had a tape in,
Speaker 3: it and that was to an area that had nothing
Speaker 3: to do with an area that the killer or robber had.
Speaker 3: Traversed there were also a bunch of keys that were
Speaker 3: taken from the hooks that they were hung. On there
Speaker 3: were radios that were. Taken there was a whole bunch
Speaker 3: of stuff besides, cash that was taken by the killer
Speaker 3: bandit AS i.
Speaker 2: Call, him what do police do in? Response, again what
Speaker 2: do they conclude this? Is you, say inside? Job are
Speaker 2: they how are they certain that they believe it's an inside?
Speaker 3: Job, well the use of The marquee card From bill
Speaker 3: McCollum in order to traverse the areas of the, Bank
Speaker 3: there's no way an outsider would have even known what
Speaker 3: that marque card. Was and the marque card worked in some,
Speaker 3: places but AN mk one, key which was a master
Speaker 3: key on the keychain was needed in other. Places and
Speaker 3: this killer slash, ROBBER i, mean he was able to
Speaker 3: traverse a lot of, areas different areas of the bank
Speaker 3: in a very short amount of. Time and, also AS i,
Speaker 3: said tried to break into that supervisor's. Office AND i
Speaker 3: can go on and on with all of the things
Speaker 3: that just screamed inside. Job and so it wasn't a
Speaker 3: leap of faith or logic for the police to, Conclude,
Speaker 3: yeah whoever did this was somebody who worked in the,
Speaker 3: bank probably as a security, card if not then that
Speaker 3: in the recent.
Speaker 2: Past and also that it was not well known even
Speaker 2: by executives that the center room in this lower concourse
Speaker 2: was used. Anymore they also, found interestingly a partial shoe
Speaker 2: print in that incinerator. Room tell us about any other
Speaker 2: partial prints or any other forensic evidence that they did
Speaker 2: discover that was about to be.
Speaker 3: Analyzed, well so the shoeprint in the there are actually
Speaker 3: a couple shoeprints in the incinerator room that appeared by
Speaker 3: the sole pattern to match what was on the glass
Speaker 3: of the window in the monitorom THAT i told you about.
Speaker 3: Earlier so that same person appeared to be in both,
Speaker 3: places and by the use of the marquee, card it
Speaker 3: was pretty clear that it was the same person in both,
Speaker 3: places and also in the cash, fault because the same
Speaker 3: marque card was used to make entrance into the cash.
Speaker 3: Fault in the monitor. Room there were several fingerprints that
Speaker 3: were lifted off of, VCRs off of a couple, surfaces
Speaker 3: and there was a palm print on the door jam
Speaker 3: to the battery room Where mancoff and McCarthy they were,
Speaker 3: killed so they had some forensic evidence at their. Disposal
Speaker 3: there was also a mountain dew can that was used
Speaker 3: to prop open a door leading into the man trap
Speaker 3: Or i'm sorry leading, yes leading into the man. Trap
Speaker 3: that propped open door actually prevented police when they arrived
Speaker 3: from getting into the man, trap and it took forever
Speaker 3: for them to get that door off its. Hinges and
Speaker 3: then they found the mountain dew, can which obviously was
Speaker 3: another device used by the.
Speaker 2: Robber by the, murderer there was a.
Speaker 3: Print lifted off that mountain dew, can so there was
Speaker 3: a lot of hope that it would eventually have enough
Speaker 3: forensic evidence to figure out who this.
Speaker 2: Was you're right that the nine to Twenty Stairwell sea
Speaker 2: alarm wasn't actually the first to have triggered That Father's
Speaker 2: day morning they Discover.
Speaker 3: Yeah they actually learned that there was a five h
Speaker 3: four am alarm in a completely different area of the.
Speaker 3: Bank it was from a records tunnel that had not
Speaker 3: only gone, off it had been acknowledged in the monitor
Speaker 3: room later that mon and it was reset after all
Speaker 3: the guards were. Dead so the only person who could
Speaker 3: have reset that, alarm the one that went off at
Speaker 3: five oh, four the motion detector in the records, tunnel
Speaker 3: would have been the. Murderer, so you, know just eye
Speaker 3: popping type forensic.
Speaker 2: Discoveries you Introduced Bob, pence Special agent in charge of
Speaker 2: THE Fbi Denver Field, office And Police Chief Ari zavares
Speaker 2: from The Denver Police, department And Jonathan, priest a lead
Speaker 2: detective on The Denver Police department and on The Joint Task. Force,
Speaker 2: eventually could you introduce these central.
Speaker 3: Characters So pence was a very gritty federal law. Man
Speaker 3: he had worked for THE fbi since the days Of
Speaker 3: Edgar Hoover Jay Edgar, hoover and he very, savvy very.
Speaker 3: Telligenic he went ON. Tv he was not afraid OF
Speaker 3: tv reporters asking him, questions and he was trying to
Speaker 3: assure the community that they would find out whoever did
Speaker 3: this and bring them to justice as quickly as. Possible
Speaker 3: Ari zavaris was the lead spokesperson for The Denver Police
Speaker 3: department as its. Chief he was constantly being asked questions
Speaker 3: by the news. Media they were quoted in the newspaper
Speaker 3: both The Rocky Mountain news and The Denver post on
Speaker 3: a daily. Basis they were shown ON tv. Frequently the
Speaker 3: guy who was working behind the, scenes eventually assuming a
Speaker 3: leadership role on a joint task force a SEVENTY fbi
Speaker 3: agents And Denver police detectives and, investigators Was John, priest
Speaker 3: who was only thirty seven years old at the time
Speaker 3: had only recently started doing homicide, work but he emerged
Speaker 3: as a very savvy leader of this. Investigation you're right
Speaker 3: that one of the first things they tried to do
Speaker 3: is even though the culprit war a, disguise they still
Speaker 3: try to show them some photos of passcard and present
Speaker 3: guards in the hope that somebody might recognize something about
Speaker 3: that person in the photos that's. Correct and so they
Speaker 3: were shown two, books a red loose leafbinder filled with
Speaker 3: one photo per page of present guards and a blue
Speaker 3: book filled with one photo per page of recent, guards
Speaker 3: and all six of the, Tellers David baranco and his
Speaker 3: crew were asked to look through and identify any features
Speaker 3: that they thought were similar to the features of the
Speaker 3: disguised gunman who was with, them mind, you for only eight,
Speaker 3: minutes and during those eight minutes they were mostly faced
Speaker 3: down on the. Floor but they were supposed to do
Speaker 3: the best they, could and they all took their best
Speaker 3: shot and identified features of various photographs that they thought were.
Speaker 3: Similar but not a single one of them, said, OH
Speaker 3: i see this, picture this is the guy who did.
Speaker 3: It no one who looked at the pictures who was
Speaker 3: inside the cash phault that morning kind of feeling about
Speaker 3: any of the.
Speaker 2: Photos you're right about the weekend guard supervisors that the
Speaker 2: Special agent spoke To Tom, Tadlaski Jim, prato And Neil
Speaker 2: tubbs and what they thought or who they thought might
Speaker 2: be a likely.
Speaker 3: Suspect, Yeah and so there was a guard who had
Speaker 3: a very bushy mustache who was there for five, years four.
Speaker 3: YEARS i can't remember exactly how, long but he was
Speaker 3: well known as being in one of the most expert
Speaker 3: security guards and he was gone for about a year
Speaker 3: and a half something like. That his name Was mike.
Speaker 3: McGowan they the descriptions that were given by the guards
Speaker 3: of the bushy mustache about how, tall about how heavy
Speaker 3: that was Who, Initially Jim, prodo who was the direct
Speaker 3: supervisor of these, guards thought it Was Tom, tadlaski who
Speaker 3: Was Jim prodo's boss and the head of the whole,
Speaker 3: department the security, department said he thought it may have
Speaker 3: been a Guy Paul, yokum And Paul yoakum didn't have
Speaker 3: a bushy, mustache didn't look anything like what was being.
Speaker 3: Described but one thing that was unique about him was
Speaker 3: he was charged with a theft from one of THE
Speaker 3: atm machines in that. Bank a year. Earlier there was
Speaker 3: a theft during The Memorial day weekend of nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: where twenty six thousand dollars was stolen from a, bin
Speaker 3: And Paul yoakum was charged with that crime and eventually.
Speaker 3: Acquitted and so the thought was maybe this guy was
Speaker 3: so mad that he was put through that that this
Speaker 3: was a revenge type act by.
Speaker 2: Him so those.
Speaker 3: Were the two who sort of emerged initially as potentially
Speaker 3: the types of guys or certainly the look of who
Speaker 3: they were describing to maybe have done. This mike McGowan
Speaker 3: And Paul.
Speaker 2: Yoakum let's use this as an opportunity to stop to
Speaker 2: hear these. Messages in the conversation that the special agents
Speaker 2: had With mike McCown he also just mentioned another guard
Speaker 2: that was a friend of his that he had spoken.
Speaker 2: To who is the guard that he referred.
Speaker 3: To So mike mccownon was actually living In, seattle which
Speaker 3: is why it made no sense that he would have been,
Speaker 3: involved and he was able to establish his. Alibi but
Speaker 3: when he spoke to some special agents out In, seattle
Speaker 3: he just casually mentioned his Friend Jim, king who worked
Speaker 3: with him as a. Guard they were often paired together
Speaker 3: in the monitor room and he became good friends with,
Speaker 3: him and he had visited with him when he went
Speaker 3: when he came back To denver to attend his daughter's
Speaker 3: high school graduation just a few weeks.
Speaker 2: Before let's get to the police investigation about the bullets.
Speaker 2: Themselves what did they? Find but what was it about
Speaker 2: the bullets that specially intrigued?
Speaker 3: Them, well first of, all there were three different types
Speaker 3: of bullets that the coroners hold out of the. Victims
Speaker 3: that was very intriguing that a gunman who was responded
Speaker 3: for four deaths would have been shooting three different sets
Speaker 3: of bullets out of his. Gun the bullets also bore
Speaker 3: markings that established they had what was called a left,
Speaker 3: twist which made it clear they had been fired from
Speaker 3: a revolver type gun as opposed to a semi. Automatic
Speaker 3: most of the bullets had what were called hollow, tips
Speaker 3: which are often used by police, departments and some of
Speaker 3: the bullets actually what were called PLUS p plus highly
Speaker 3: pressurized bullets that are department police department issue. Only so
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you have this notion that the
Speaker 3: bullets used would have come from some police organization like
Speaker 3: The Denver Police. Department and the other thing that was
Speaker 3: intriguing was that they counted up the number of bullets
Speaker 3: that had been used in the, crime including the one
Speaker 3: that had been used to shoot that, doorknob and they counted. Eighteen,
Speaker 3: well that is the standard issue for the number of
Speaker 3: bullets A denver police officer is going to have when
Speaker 3: he's issued new. Bullets each time he qualifies at the firing.
Speaker 3: Range six that go into the revolver's. Chamber and then
Speaker 3: you've got what are called speedloaders that each carry six
Speaker 3: to be able to quickly reload the. Chamber so two
Speaker 3: speedloaders makes. Twelve the chamber is another. Six the cylinder
Speaker 3: is another six in the, chamber and that's. Eighteen and
Speaker 3: so all of a, sudden you're now getting an indication
Speaker 3: an inside job from somebody who at one point was
Speaker 3: a security guard and perhaps somebody who used to be
Speaker 3: a police.
Speaker 2: Officer you're right that the investigation Into Paul yoakum has
Speaker 2: some very very interesting and incriminating. Results they search his,
Speaker 2: home but they also search his his childhood home In, Flaglare.
Speaker 2: Yes what was found there that seemed incriminating.
Speaker 3: Mountains and mountains of ammunition and weapons in both his
Speaker 3: home and home In, denver in an apartment small apartment
Speaker 3: that he lived in which was walking distance from the,
Speaker 3: bank and also at his childhood home where his mother still,
Speaker 3: Lived mountains and mountains of ammunition and some of which
Speaker 3: could have been used to closely approximated the type of
Speaker 3: ammunition that was used for at least killing some of the.
Speaker 3: Guards so there Was they didn't find the, gun the
Speaker 3: murder weapon or nora a gun that was capable of
Speaker 3: shooting the bullets that were, used but they certainly found
Speaker 3: enough incriminating evidence in terms of. Weaponry and the other
Speaker 3: big thing they found was a, diary and that diary
Speaker 3: just Like Tom tadlaski had predicted when he was first
Speaker 3: told about the. Crime lo And, behold this was a
Speaker 3: man who was royally pissed off at what The United
Speaker 3: bank Of denver had put him through a year before
Speaker 3: when they put him on trial for that. Theft he
Speaker 3: was a very angry, man according to the diary that
Speaker 3: he had. Created so, yeah there was a lot to
Speaker 3: make one believe That Paul yocum had the, motive had the,
Speaker 3: means lived close, by and didn't have a good.
Speaker 2: Alibi special Agents John gedney And Kevin kiernan were going
Speaker 2: through the list of people that were spoken to by
Speaker 2: special agents and they came Across mike mccollen's statements or
Speaker 2: at least as mention Of Jim.
Speaker 3: King so what happened was is THE fbi had a
Speaker 3: list of former guards and they were going through that
Speaker 3: list one by one just to interview as many former
Speaker 3: guards as they could to find out if they had.
Speaker 3: Alibis and that's how these two special agents wound up
Speaker 3: at the door Of Jim king On june twenty, fourth
Speaker 3: to nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2: One and what do agents ask? Him in, particular because
Speaker 2: you talk about of a follow up interview after, That
Speaker 2: so tell us what they decide or pardon, me what
Speaker 2: they determine in that, interview and tell us about the
Speaker 2: reason for the follow.
Speaker 3: Up, well they Asked king where he was the morning
Speaker 3: Of Father's, day and he provides them a story that
Speaker 3: he went. Downtown he lives In Golden, colorado eleven miles
Speaker 3: essentially from where the crime, occurred and they asked him
Speaker 3: where he. Was he says he went, downtown which is
Speaker 3: where the crime, occurred in order to play a game
Speaker 3: of chess On Father's day at a place called The
Speaker 3: Capitol Hill Community, center which used to host The Denver Chess,
Speaker 3: club of Which James king was a member back in the.
Speaker 3: Day but The Capital Community center hadn't hosted The Denver
Speaker 3: Chess club in several, years and in, Fact James king.
Speaker 3: Hadn't he admitted that he hadn't played a live game
Speaker 3: of chess in, years so that seemed highly. Suspicious they
Speaker 3: also questioned him about what his activities were Throughout Father's.
Speaker 3: Day he had some vague descriptions of where he was
Speaker 3: in the times he was there when he got, back
Speaker 3: and it just didn't seem to make a lot of,
Speaker 3: sense so they were suspicious of Whether James king had
Speaker 3: a good. Alibi and beyond, That James king went out
Speaker 3: of his way to talk about how horrible the security
Speaker 3: was At United, bank what a travesty it was as
Speaker 3: to how they ran their security operation, there from his
Speaker 3: own experience working there for about fourteen months as a security,
Speaker 3: guard so it seemed like he had somewhat of an
Speaker 3: axe to grind Against United, banks sort of Like Paul yoakum.
Speaker 3: Did so this was certainly enough to warrant a follow up.
Speaker 2: Interview you say this information was also shared With John,
Speaker 2: priest and he said or if he thought that information
Speaker 2: jumped right off the, paper and he sent or at
Speaker 2: Least Detective Calvin hemple and with his Assistant Vi leagas
Speaker 2: went to do the follow up and a very very interesting, interview,
Speaker 2: indeed especially when he refused to do the interview on
Speaker 2: the advice of his. Lawyer, yeah initially he wouldn't let them.
Speaker 2: In so by this, time by the second, interview which
Speaker 2: occurs On july the morning Of july second or, third
Speaker 2: AND i can't remember exactly my, timeline but when they come,
Speaker 2: back a different set of law enforcement officers come, back
Speaker 2: he cracks the door open and says he's been told
Speaker 2: not to talk to. Him he's already spoken to a.
Speaker 2: Lawyer and what they tell him, is, look we're just
Speaker 2: trying to learn from.
Speaker 3: You you know the. Bank you used to be one of,
Speaker 3: us used to be a. Cop we'd just like to
Speaker 3: pick your. Brain you, know you're not under. Arrest we're
Speaker 3: not trying to get you under. Arrest and he eventually
Speaker 3: lets them in and he starts, talking and eventually they
Speaker 3: talk about his police, revolver and he shares with them
Speaker 3: that he's discarded his police. Revolver he doesn't have it.
Speaker 3: Anymore that makes no sense To John, priest because cops
Speaker 3: consider their, badge their, uniform their police revolver as part
Speaker 3: of their. Identity and at least no cop that he
Speaker 3: knew who had retired had ever done anything like getting
Speaker 3: rid of their police, revolver their service, weapon their duty.
Speaker 3: Weapon To John, priest something seemed off About James king
Speaker 3: the moment he started reading the reports of these.
Speaker 2: Interviews now tell us about their efforts to put him
Speaker 2: in a photo lineup and what they did to try
Speaker 2: to have better results from that photo.
Speaker 3: Lineup so the first time, around you know the six
Speaker 3: cash vault tellers who were on due to that morning
Speaker 3: got rob and saw the robber for some part of eight.
Speaker 3: Minutes when they made that first. Pass what they were
Speaker 3: looking at were BASICALLY dmv, photos including A dmv photo
Speaker 3: that was taken a couple of years before Of James,
Speaker 3: king that, were you, know full frontal photos of the
Speaker 3: whole person's face and. Head, Well priest realized that that
Speaker 3: might have been confusing because all they got to see
Speaker 3: of the robber's face was what was underneath a, hat
Speaker 3: and the dark sunglasses would have prevented them from seeing
Speaker 3: the eyes as. Well so in order to approximate that
Speaker 3: as best as they could for a photo, lineup they
Speaker 3: Took Jim king's. Picture they put it in the second,
Speaker 3: position and they cropped it right around his forehead and
Speaker 3: his ears to basically show just the interior portion of his.
Speaker 3: Face and they did that with the other five people
Speaker 3: that were not someone they suspected of this. Crime and
Speaker 3: they showed that initially To David twist On july, third
Speaker 3: And David twist took his, time but he eventually said
Speaker 3: there was something about the look of the person in position,
Speaker 3: too who Was James, king who definitely resembled the, robber
Speaker 3: and so he more or less made a positive identification
Speaker 3: Of James king On july the, third seventeen days after the.
Speaker 2: Crime now you introduce an attorney Named Walter, Gayrash Walter.
Speaker 2: Garsh Walter garash tell us How Jim king comes to
Speaker 2: be have this person as his attorney.
Speaker 3: Because he played chess with him back in the day
Speaker 3: at The Capitol Hill Community center when they were both
Speaker 3: members of The Denver Chess. Club so it was the
Speaker 3: only attorney he, knew and he knew him from having
Speaker 3: played chess against, him and he called him, SAYING i
Speaker 3: THINK i might be in trouble AND i THINK i
Speaker 3: need an. Attorney this was just before the second round
Speaker 3: of interviews, occurred and in fact he was probably told
Speaker 3: By Walter grash don't talk to. Anybody he didn't accept
Speaker 3: his lawyer's advice and had that second, interview had a
Speaker 3: third interview the next. Day, Ultimately Walter garrash winds up
Speaker 3: representing him before his arrest and obviously most significantly after his.
Speaker 2: Arrest let's talk about that arrest and the district attorney norm.
Speaker 3: Early, Okay so the arrest warrant and the search warrant
Speaker 3: are signed the evening Of july, third and they go
Speaker 3: do a massive search Of Jim King's James king's, property
Speaker 3: While James king and his Wife carolyn are forced to
Speaker 3: sit on the porch of their very tiny little bungalow In, Golden.
Speaker 3: Colorado the idea is they're going to arrest, him assuming
Speaker 3: they find anything further in his home that points to
Speaker 3: him having been involved in the. Crime, well they didn't find.
Speaker 3: Much they found a set of maps diagrams to the
Speaker 3: lower concourse and concourse levels of the bank that seemed
Speaker 3: to be. Incriminating they obviously didn't find a murder weapon
Speaker 3: they looked there. Was they were looking for his police,
Speaker 3: revolver And Carolyn king actually told them that she believed
Speaker 3: it was in a box in a metal box in the.
Speaker 2: Den it was.
Speaker 3: Locked eventually they Got James king himself to give them
Speaker 3: the combination to the to the lock on the, box
Speaker 3: and when they opened it there was nothing. There but
Speaker 3: what they found as the hour approached midnight that seemed
Speaker 3: to tip the scales in favor of This we got,
Speaker 3: Him we got the right, guy was a pair of
Speaker 3: black shoes that had a sole pattern that looked exactly
Speaker 3: like the sole pattern in the incinerator room and also
Speaker 3: on the glass window in the guard monitor. Room not
Speaker 3: long after they made that, discovery they Read James king
Speaker 3: his rights and this is early wee hours Of july,
Speaker 3: fourth nineteen ninety. One they put him in a squad
Speaker 3: car and they took him to.
Speaker 2: Jail now you mentioned that, shoeprint so there is some
Speaker 2: forensic evidence to be. Tested how do the prosecution plan
Speaker 2: to what's their? Strategy and tell us a little bit
Speaker 2: more about the prosecution and what they think they have
Speaker 2: in that and they convey in their opening statement at.
Speaker 3: Trial, Okay, well they have a lot of very suspicious
Speaker 3: evidence About James. King they have the eighteen bullets that
Speaker 3: matches what a police officer. Carried they have a lot
Speaker 3: of statements that he's made over the time he was
Speaker 3: a security guard about how poor he thought the security
Speaker 3: apparatus at the bank. Was they have an alibi that
Speaker 3: seems very, weak and nobody saw him when he went
Speaker 3: to play. Chess he didn't get, in so the timeline
Speaker 3: doesn't seem right for, Him the alibi doesn't seem right for.
Speaker 3: Him his revolver is nowhere to be found and no
Speaker 3: police officer throws away their service. Revolver they don't have
Speaker 3: any forensic. Evidence the shoe prints turn out they tested
Speaker 3: at THE, fbi they don't match the shoes that they
Speaker 3: seized from his home at the time of the. Search
Speaker 3: they actually doubled down On it's not Only David twist
Speaker 3: who Identified James king from that. Lineup Eventually nina McGinty,
Speaker 3: Does Maria, christian one of the tellers. Does Kenetha, whistler
Speaker 3: one of the tellers. Does so they have a collection
Speaker 3: of eyewitness. Identifications say, Yeah James king photo number two
Speaker 3: in that photo, lineup he was the guy that robbed,
Speaker 3: them and that's what they take to.
Speaker 2: Trial how do they address his alibi or how do
Speaker 2: they say they're going to address his alibi about the
Speaker 2: chess match and being confused where they play chess?
Speaker 3: ANYMORE i don't remember the specifics of the opening. Statement
Speaker 3: there's a lot in the book THAT i could not recite,
Speaker 3: Verbatim but the bottom line is that there's nobody who
Speaker 3: could vouch For James king's whereabouts at the time these
Speaker 3: guards are being massacred and the money is being stolen
Speaker 3: from the cash. Vault and what he says about The
Speaker 3: Denver Chess club and The Capital Community Center Capital Community
Speaker 3: center is completely unverified and there's nobody who can support that.
Speaker 2: Alibi how Does Sam garish operate? In Walter Garsh Walter?
Speaker 2: Garage pardon? Me how does he operate? In how does
Speaker 2: he operate in the? Courtroom he's one of the most
Speaker 2: theatrical courtroom lawyers that has ever. Lived he had a booming.
Speaker 2: Voice he would make theatrical displays on a almost hourly.
Speaker 2: Basis he was a.
Speaker 3: WARRIOR i, mean he was a great lawyer if you
Speaker 3: were in a, jam Like James king, was because he
Speaker 3: fought for you with every ounce of his. Being and
Speaker 3: there wasn't much of. Him he was only five foot.
Speaker 3: Six he was probably about one hundred and thirty five,
Speaker 3: pounds dripping, wet bald, headed sixty Something ish lawyer who
Speaker 3: had been through the trenches for many years and had
Speaker 3: quite the reputation of being a pretty darn good criminal
Speaker 3: defense attorney and someone who took no. Prisoners that was his.
Speaker 3: Style he was. Brash he was Actually bronx, Born bronx,
Speaker 3: raised A Jewish New yorker who had at one point
Speaker 3: been a member of The Communist party quite the character
Speaker 3: and he gave and his, Partner Scott robinson Gave James
Speaker 3: king won hell of a defense in that courtroom in
Speaker 3: The city And County building during the trial that took
Speaker 3: place just a little less than a year after the.
Speaker 2: Crime it's not uncommon for the, defense especially when seemingly
Speaker 2: desperate to accuse someone, else who did they accuse in
Speaker 2: their strategy to detract from their.
Speaker 3: Client, well they certainly pointed at the fact that the
Speaker 3: police were much more interested In Paul yoakum than they
Speaker 3: Were Jim king up until the time they all of
Speaker 3: a sudden got interested In Jim. King so they had
Speaker 3: search warrants that stated that there was probable cause to
Speaker 3: believe That Paul yoakum committed the. Crime they called in
Speaker 3: all the witnesses who Investigated Paul, yoakum THE fbi, witnesses
Speaker 3: the police, witnesses and recount all of the arsenals of
Speaker 3: weaponry and munitions that they found In Paul yocum's. Possession
Speaker 3: at one point tried to introduce but failed to introduce
Speaker 3: evidence About Dewey. BAKER A Dewey Calvin baker who was
Speaker 3: actually incarcerated In california who had written letters To garash
Speaker 3: saying that he was actually the one who committed this.
Speaker 3: Crime they never were successful in introducing that. Evidence the
Speaker 3: judge kept it, out but they wanted very much to
Speaker 3: get that before the jury, too since there was essentially
Speaker 3: a confession by this other notorious bank robber who was
Speaker 3: serving time In.
Speaker 2: California the prosecution had took aim at some of the major,
Speaker 2: inconsistencies such as When hamphill came and spoke to, him
Speaker 2: he then changed his testimony that he hadn't spoken to
Speaker 2: any neighbors at all when he came home from looking
Speaker 2: for the chess meeting to now saying that he had
Speaker 2: spoken specifically to a. Neighbor.
Speaker 3: Yeah in, fact two neighbors came and, testified one who
Speaker 3: lived across the, STREET. Roberta, trijiho and the gentleman who
Speaker 3: actually lived next door To James king on on a corner,
Speaker 3: law and they both. Testified trhello testified that she had
Speaker 3: Seen king a little after nine that, morning And David,
Speaker 3: dell the neighbor next, door testified that he had Seen
Speaker 3: king at ten o'clock when he was coming back in his.
Speaker 3: Car and if you believe the timing of what they,
Speaker 3: said Then James king couldn't have been the murderer because
Speaker 3: there's no way he could have gotten to the bank
Speaker 3: in time for that nine fourteen phone. Call and there's
Speaker 3: no way he would have left the bank at nine
Speaker 3: nine fifty six and then gotten home by ten. O'clock
Speaker 3: so the forty two minutes inside the bank nine fourteen
Speaker 3: to nine fifty six didn't match a nine o'clock time
Speaker 3: that he's, there in a ten o'clock time that he's
Speaker 3: there at his. Home so but unfortunately For James, king
Speaker 3: what he told the detectives AND fbi agents when he
Speaker 3: was first interviewed was he never saw any neighbors that
Speaker 3: morning and this was very. Soon he was interviewed on
Speaker 3: the twenty, fourth eight days after the, crime and he
Speaker 3: told investigators he never saw his neighbors that morning when
Speaker 3: he either when he left or when he came back
Speaker 3: from this supposed attempt to play a game of.
Speaker 2: Chess let's just this as an opportunity to stop to
Speaker 2: hear these. Messages now the prosecution has their, Strategy they
Speaker 2: bring forth their, eyewitnesses they explain the process they use
Speaker 2: to have these people Identify Jim. King let's talk about the.
Speaker 2: Decision which is unusual For Jim king to testify as an.
Speaker 2: Attorney you know that this is. Unusual why in this
Speaker 2: case Would Jim king want to, testify and why would
Speaker 2: possibly their attorneys want him to.
Speaker 3: Testify, well, so even during jury, selection the prosecution picked
Speaker 3: up on what was likely going to be the overall
Speaker 3: thematic approach that the defense was going to, take which,
Speaker 3: Is Jim king is the most mild, mannered soft spoken
Speaker 3: man you're ever going to. Meet he's not a, Monster
Speaker 3: he's not a. Killer he's not someone you can envision
Speaker 3: or picture being a monster or a. Killer their approach
Speaker 3: was to get the jury to believe from the very get,
Speaker 3: go don't judge a book by its, cover because you
Speaker 3: can have somebody who is very mild manner and seemingly
Speaker 3: very polite and yet at the same time also a
Speaker 3: monster and a. Killer, well the defense wanted the jury
Speaker 3: to get to Know James king as being the, polite
Speaker 3: mild mannered man that he was very soft, spoken to
Speaker 3: get them to think could they possibly envision this guy
Speaker 3: being a. Killer and they also wanted him to explain
Speaker 3: where he was when supposedly he was the guy viciously
Speaker 3: massacring four defenseless security guards At United, bank and so
Speaker 3: it made sense for him to. Testify you had no prior,
Speaker 3: convictions a clean police, record even though it was somewhat,
Speaker 3: mediocre and it wasn't actually that much of a gamble
Speaker 3: because he had a story to. Tell he was well
Speaker 3: prepared and he told that story pretty, well about what
Speaker 3: he did On Father's, day about how he protected the
Speaker 3: community for twenty five, years about how he worked for the,
Speaker 3: bank and he told his story and he stuck to.
Speaker 2: It there was two stories that he had a reason
Speaker 2: for right after he Was police spoken to him right
Speaker 2: after the murders that he went to the bank and
Speaker 2: purchased a bigger safety deposit box and apparently told somebody
Speaker 2: that it didn't matter about the. Money he didn't care
Speaker 2: about the. Money he needed a bigger. Box at, trial
Speaker 2: he had to explain why he went to the bank
Speaker 2: for another safety deposit box that, day and also he
Speaker 2: had to explain why he threw his gun.
Speaker 3: Away, yeah so we haven't introduced this fact yet and
Speaker 3: it was a powerful piece of prosecution evidence that the
Speaker 3: day after the massacre at the, bank the day After Father,
Speaker 3: Day James king went to his, bank which was Not United,
Speaker 3: bank it was the First bank Of westland where he
Speaker 3: had a small safety deposit box and he traded it
Speaker 3: in for a larger safety deposit box the very day
Speaker 3: after this crime where two hundred thousand dollars was stolen
Speaker 3: from the cash. Fault and of course the prosecution theory, is,
Speaker 3: yeah he got the safety deposit box to stuff it
Speaker 3: full of the loot from the bank robbery until he
Speaker 3: figured the coast was clear and he could do something with.
Speaker 3: It problem for the prosecution team, was immediately After James
Speaker 3: king's arrest they were able to get a locksmith to
Speaker 3: break open that security box that's a safety deposit. Box
Speaker 3: there was not a single dollar in that safety deposit. Box,
Speaker 3: Nevertheless James king had to explain that timing just seemed really.
Speaker 3: Suspicious so he had, explained and his explanation was he
Speaker 3: got that larger box because he was writing a book
Speaker 3: on police procedures and he needed a place to store
Speaker 3: his floppy. Discs, well that wasn't such a good explanation
Speaker 3: because when they searched that safety deposit box after his,
Speaker 3: arrest there was also no floppy disks in that, box
Speaker 3: so it was kind of a peculiar explanation for why
Speaker 3: he had gotten that box and then his, gun which
Speaker 3: was probably the most significant piece of evidence in the entire.
Speaker 3: Case his gun was never, found and his explanation was
Speaker 3: he had thrown it away because it had a cracked.
Speaker 3: Cylinder he admitted that he knew the cylinder was cracked
Speaker 3: as of the time he fired it in his last qualifying,
Speaker 3: shoot which was In june of nineteen, ninety and in
Speaker 3: he stayed there Until august of nineteen. Ninety had admitted
Speaker 3: he carried the gun for the next two, months but
Speaker 3: his explanation for discarding the gun was that it was.
Speaker 3: Dangerous well that you can't square that up very. Well
Speaker 3: it was, dangerous but he carried it to protect him
Speaker 3: and other people in the bank for another two. Months
Speaker 3: so that was a very suspicious explanation as to why
Speaker 3: he'd gotten rid of his, gun and that gave the
Speaker 3: prosecution the opening to say that's not the real. Explanation
Speaker 3: the real explanation as he got rid of it because
Speaker 3: it was the murder.
Speaker 2: Weapon it's very interesting that the prosecution switched off Between
Speaker 2: Attorney buckley And Lamar simms in this cross examinations of
Speaker 2: witnesses And Jim.
Speaker 3: King So buckley was the one who took you, know
Speaker 3: he was the more. Experienced this was about his fiftieth murder,
Speaker 3: trial and he was the one who took On James
Speaker 3: king in cross, examination and he did expose some inconsistencies
Speaker 3: and some suspicious explanations for these things that we've been talking.
Speaker 3: About was it a masterful. JOB i wouldn't say it was,
Speaker 3: masterful but he did expose you, Know king kept his composure.
Speaker 3: Throughout he was mild, mannered he was, polite he was measured.
Speaker 3: Throughout but if you listen to his answers and you
Speaker 3: really took some time to study and digest. Them some
Speaker 3: of the things he testified about in terms of his chess,
Speaker 3: alibi in terms of the disposal of the, gun and
Speaker 3: in terms of the new safety deposit box at his,
Speaker 3: bank they were very difficult to wrap your mind. Around you,
Speaker 3: say the prosecution just very much like a boxing. Match
Speaker 3: in certain rounds made some damaging blows to the, defendant
Speaker 3: but there were other ones that were undecided or not so. Effective,
Speaker 3: well not a knockout. Blow there was No Perry mason,
Speaker 3: moment at least not for the. PROSECUTION i think there
Speaker 3: was A Perry mason moment for the. Defense you want
Speaker 3: to talk about, that we, can but there was no
Speaker 3: True Perry mason moment for the.
Speaker 2: Prosecution, well what was The Perry mason moment for the.
Speaker 3: Defense The Perry mason moment for the defense had to
Speaker 3: do with eyewitness. Identification and the very first witness called
Speaker 3: in the trial by the prosecution was the manager of the,
Speaker 3: Teller's David. Baranco and to prove that, Day Vid bronco
Speaker 3: couldn't possibly have identified the bandit the robber through his heavy,
Speaker 3: disguise they showed him a heavily disguised photograph of a
Speaker 3: man who was wearing a drawn on fedora, hat dark,
Speaker 3: sunglasses and a bushy. Mustache and they, asked and there
Speaker 3: was a plastic overlay with those features on. It and
Speaker 3: they Asked, baranco this Was Scott, Robinson Walter grash's. Partner
Speaker 3: they asked, him by presenting this blow up photograph To,
Speaker 3: bronco can you tell who this? Is they even asked,
Speaker 3: him you, know do you know the Movie Late raiders
Speaker 3: of The Lost Arc And bronco just sat there and
Speaker 3: stammered he couldn't figure out what they were getting, at
Speaker 3: and he certainly couldn't figure out who was the man
Speaker 3: behind that. Disguise and Then robinson pulls the overlay off
Speaker 3: the photograph and reveals the most famous man In hollywood
Speaker 3: who was connected With raiders of The Lost, Arc Harrison.
Speaker 3: Ford that, was you, know a real gotcha. Moment that
Speaker 3: was emblematic for the problem one of the many problems
Speaker 3: the prosecution team had with the eyewitness, identification which was
Speaker 3: that you're not going to successfully be able to identify
Speaker 3: someone that you saw wearing a disguise like. That that's
Speaker 3: the whole point of the. Disguise and if you can't
Speaker 3: Identify Harrison ford wearing that, disguise you're not going to
Speaker 3: identify someone you've never seen before in your life wearing that.
Speaker 3: Disguise that was The Perry mason, moment and it happened
Speaker 3: with the very first, witness WHICH i think had the
Speaker 3: prosecution on their back feet from the get.
Speaker 2: Go you say That buckley was pointing out some inconsistencies
Speaker 2: and strange, coincidences and he was making points like That
Speaker 2: king carried the same number of bullets used in the
Speaker 2: commission of the crime eighteen and then explained the. Speedloader
Speaker 2: and also during the trial there was talk of This
Speaker 2: Sam brown belt which had pouches for, speedloaders and again
Speaker 2: there was no speedloaders in that belt when.
Speaker 3: Found, no the belt wasn't, found the speedloaders. Were all
Speaker 3: these things were, gone which was suspicious in and of.
Speaker 3: Itself he got rid of not just the, gun but
Speaker 3: he admitted to getting rid of the. Speedloaders he got
Speaker 3: rid of the ammunition that was in the, speedloaders he.
Speaker 3: Said he said he actually pulled the bullets apart and
Speaker 3: took the powder out so that it wasn't. Dangerous he
Speaker 3: said he disposed of the gun in several different, disposals
Speaker 3: took it, apart and he was very descriptive about the
Speaker 3: way he got rid of all this. Stuff and yet
Speaker 3: it was very difficult to believe that somebody would have
Speaker 3: taken that care in disposing of a gun that supposedly was. Defective,
Speaker 3: Anyway it's the whole thing was very very puzzling on
Speaker 3: these key. Points he wasn't able to provide convincing explanations
Speaker 3: on those key. Points that didn't change the fact that
Speaker 3: the prosecution team had heavily on eyewitness identification that had
Speaker 3: a number of problems with, it including all of the
Speaker 3: tellers having passed Over James king's picture when they first saw,
Speaker 3: it when they had those red in those blue books
Speaker 3: four days after the, robbery and didn't make up for
Speaker 3: all of the forensic evidence that didn't point To James.
Speaker 3: King the, fingerprints the palm, print none of. That the,
Speaker 3: shoes none of that pointed To James. King so there
Speaker 3: were a number of problems that the prosecution team had
Speaker 3: to surmount if they were going to get a guilty.
Speaker 3: Verdict despite Rattling James king on those key, points.
Speaker 2: Right you talk about, rattling but overall you write that
Speaker 2: his demeanor was. Unflappable, yes and also when they spoke
Speaker 2: to his wife originally about his movements that, day again
Speaker 2: there was no testimony that this person who had just
Speaker 2: slaughtered four fellow guards had done anything of that. Sort
Speaker 2: there was no indication of any unusual behavior from him that. Day.
Speaker 3: Correct in, fact they went very soon, after you, know
Speaker 3: he got back from wherever he. Was his wife didn't
Speaker 3: know where he. Was, obviously they went to visit her,
Speaker 3: parents which is what traditional thing they did On Father's
Speaker 3: day that were buried at the nearby cemetery and then
Speaker 3: they went out and got some ice. Cream so you,
Speaker 3: know this was not the type of thing somebody who
Speaker 3: had just viciously killed four human beings would have been.
Speaker 3: Doing and, that's you, know what the defense, wanted both
Speaker 3: Through James king's testimony and his wife's, testimony the jury
Speaker 3: to understand Dairy queen is where they.
Speaker 2: Went we haven't spoken about the. Media you talk about
Speaker 2: The rocky as it was, called and another media newspaper
Speaker 2: as well and. Television tell us about the media response
Speaker 2: and how they conveyed and portrayed this trial in the.
Speaker 3: Papers, well first of, all this was one of the
Speaker 3: very first trials covered On COURT. Tv this was a
Speaker 3: couple of years before THE oj. CASE i, Mean COURT
Speaker 3: tv was truly an infant at this, time but it
Speaker 3: was covered coast to coast on television screens all Across.
Speaker 3: America and you, know the coverage of this case began
Speaker 3: within hours of THE i, Mean Jim king was sitting
Speaker 3: in his living, room according to, him according to his,
Speaker 3: wife watching the news of the massacre on the six
Speaker 3: o'clock news that, night and he had to testify about
Speaker 3: how he saw that on the news and how it
Speaker 3: made him. Feel SO i, mean this was a story
Speaker 3: that Dominated denver And colorado media for a full year
Speaker 3: from the time of the massacre all the way until
Speaker 3: the time of the jury's, verdict which happened one year
Speaker 3: and one day following it Was june, seventeenth two. Thousand i'm,
Speaker 3: sorry in nineteen ninety, two one year and one day
Speaker 3: after the. Massacre, SO i, mean it was a captivating
Speaker 3: story throughout And denveright were initially frightened to death and
Speaker 3: then they were mesmerized by this former cop charged with
Speaker 3: committing one of the most heinous crimes in the history Of.
Speaker 2: Colorado you're right that there was fourteen. Jurors this is
Speaker 2: a three week trial that they. Endured they were later
Speaker 2: in that when they're, deliberating they were held in a hotel.
Speaker 3: Hotel, yes, yes old downtown hotel that overlooked the cash
Speaker 3: register building of all. Places, Yes how many days did they?
Speaker 2: Deliberate for?
Speaker 3: Nine they were held. Captive they were held captive at
Speaker 3: the work hotel for nine. Days they on that ninth
Speaker 3: and final, day they, did in fact reach a. Verdict
Speaker 3: that nine day jury, deliberation to the best of my,
Speaker 3: knowledge is the longest in a criminal case In colorado.
Speaker 2: History. INCREDIBLE i want to thank you very Much stephen
Speaker 2: B epstein from coming on and talking About Deadly, heist
Speaker 2: The true story of The Mile High Bank. Massacre for
Speaker 2: those people that might want to find out what happens
Speaker 2: at this incredible trial and the, aftermath tell us about
Speaker 2: a website or any social media that you. Do please.
Speaker 3: Sure first of, all the book is obviously available On.
Speaker 3: Amazon you can get it from your local, bookstores so
Speaker 3: wherever you get your, books you can Get Deadly. Heist
Speaker 3: it will soon be out an. Audio it's already out in,
Speaker 3: Audible i'm, sorry already out in paperback On. Kindle my
Speaker 3: website Is stephenbiepstein dot com And i'm On Exit stephenbauthor
Speaker 3: and Also steve At stephen the author On Blue.
Speaker 2: Sky thank you so. Much Deadly, heist The True story
Speaker 2: of The Mile High Bank. Massacre thank you so, Much
Speaker 2: steven B epstein for this. Interview thank you so. Much
Speaker 2: and good evening.
Speaker 3: A, Pleasure thanks so.
Speaker 2: Much good, night