Speaker 1: And folks will live the Sasquatch Experience Radio show is
your folks, Sean with your hosts Sean Parker and James Baker.
Melissa Hovey off tonight, and we've got some great guests tonight.
Wind up for bj Hollows, who's a writer from Alabama
who joined us last weekend. This James and I's guest
at the two thousand and eighties Coast Bickfoot Conference. And
Craig Willheater from Texas. He's the chairman of the Texas
Bigfoot Research Conservancy. He'll be having his own conference later
on in the month. So, folks, there's a little bit
of news items here. Fifty years ago today. Fifty years
ago today, the term bigfoot was coined the newspaper. That
newspaper reported the Jerry Crewe foot track finds in The
Humble Times October fifth, nineteen fifty eight. Andrew Genzoli, while
we pronounce his name, and I don't care at the moment,
but only knows it's an important day. But the tracks
do not matter. Those made by Ray Wallace. Ray Wallace,
of course, the big hoaster, who I like to take
credit for those footprints, and they do not match up
so kind of an important piece of Bigfoot history. James,
you let us my good friend.
Speaker 2: You are where I am. I've felt it was an
interesting experience driving there, driving back from the cool things
that he did. I'll chance to get to a conference
to at least just to get to some of the
PPS functions. Take the time.
Speaker 1: It was a hell of a good time had by all.
There over five hundred and sixty people in attendance on
the final talies. According to Eric Haltman, of course, the
conference chairman, it was a good time. I had a blast,
spent a lot of time with Craig Wildheater and Stan
Goodon and Dj Hollis. Got some birthdays to point out
quick today, James. Our good friend John cart Wright's birthday
was yesterday. He turned one hundred and eighty. Wow, I
guess we had a few weeks ago. Linda Quayle Succi,
her birthday is coming up in the next few days,
So just like to wish them a very happy birthday
and thank you for being listeners of the show and
supporters of the last last year, going on two years
at the end of the month, James, two years we've
been on the air. It's kind of amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred and eighty years old.
Speaker 1: He's well probsolved one hundred and eighty years old with preservatives.
Craig Wolfe was in the chat room. Got a nice
little turn out here. Show is starting tonight at ten
pm Eastern. A little light but well worth it. So, James,
aren't you start with the bake shopper. When we went
along to our guests, I know Dog Keating is going
to be calling in briefly for an announcement regarding an
event he has coming up this week as a James,
go ahead, take it away.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, hey, you know we had this nice trap.
The one thing I learned during the Salt trap was
if you're going to use the GPS, make sure you
have a map back go. GPS is a phenomenal they'll
tell you where you are, they'll tell you where you're going.
But there are occasions, you know, the GPS show a
criple line that doesn't seem to go anywhere, and then
you teup to six level purple lines where a twenty
minute ride becomes two hours. Yet we found that was
and then we also found this on the ray to
and from the conference was even if you do your
Google maps print out the actual version of the map
that shows you your side streets and stuff like that,
because when you get lost and you don't know quite
where you are, turning out on end does not really
do crap for you. You know, you know, it turned
a nice trip into you know, an extra forty five
minutes because we weren't quite sure where we were. And
I'll tell you it wasn't is. There was a point
where I was gonna push forker out a car. Yeah,
supplyed when.
Speaker 1: You go somewhere.
Speaker 2: Oh, although it was a great trip, And if you
ever have a chance to go any of these things,
please do. But I mean, I think my my thing
of the day is if you do planning to go
any wall one, make sure you know where you're going,
someone knows where you're going, and then you bring the
map or you know, and that will help you out.
Speaker 1: But bring a visual map, because every one of those
map quests has to get us to and from the conference.
And as James will tell you, me, being the genius
I am, I didn't punt out the physical map and
we ended up adding a lot of time onto our trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, uh, yeah, I know that we turn
right on this way, said, you have a lot of
the cross tacks that were being punt out the map
just to turn loft here. I'm like, well we missed
that ride.
Speaker 1: Yeah that it was a good time anyhow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the thing is the GPS, this phenomenal idea.
But the thing that was like even we learned from
we learned that night were sometimes the GPS doesn't do
what it's supposed to.
Speaker 1: Speaking of GPS, I have Craig will Heater and b J.
Hollis in along with us tonight. How are you guys doing?
Speaker 3: Say good, Hey, I'm doing fine.
Speaker 1: Kara about the GPS problems that we were going on
a smooth ride and then all of a sudden everything
went purple. Well, you know, the GPS, it doesn't it uh,
it doesn't necessarily tell you the way.
Speaker 4: That you want to go. It tells you the way
that it wants to go. And I think that what
our problem was was that why it was showing us,
uh you know, rotting us back. It was actually showing
us what what it wanted to do, but it wasn't
what we wanted to do. And so when we see
all that purple, it just kind of threw us off. Uh.
Speaker 2: My my favorite line is that whole time was when
uh James said, no wonder we can't find big, but
we can't even find a conference, which was.
Speaker 4: Just hilarious to me.
Speaker 1: We did fantastic. There are a lot of lights that weekend, BJ,
but I'm sure you'd like to forget about most of them.
Speaker 3: Do there?
Speaker 2: I got them all down on paper. Let me tell
you that I'm there.
Speaker 3: But it was. It was quite a bit that was
supposed to be off the record.
Speaker 2: A lot of off the record we created.
Speaker 3: I think pretty much was off the record, wasn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Craig, I think the one you missed it was
we had gotten up earlier in the morning to get
ready for the conference, and we were down at breakfast
and I said, damn it. I said, we here's a family.
We sleep as a family. And I think I said
we we shower as a family.
Speaker 2: Make your own waffles, as that the best thing for
the hotel, make your own waffle, like you know what,
We're so goddamn lady, We're just gonna give you some
syrup and some butter and oat.
Speaker 1: Now, the worst part was the Marlborough lady. Oh, my god,
thank you, super Man. Where's the milk? Superman? Thank you?
Thank you awful And I think she actually the funniest
part about this is she I think she had flipped
in the shower at her hotel room and she fell
and actually broke or fractured her arm on the soap
dish or something.
Speaker 2: All over.
Speaker 1: She was obviously ellebriated, but it was funny. Nonetheless, h
thank you Superman.
Speaker 2: You know, I read that a lot, usually not that
of a drone of the tongue. You know, before we
digressed into a tirade.
Speaker 1: Of drunken debauchery, we do have a conference to discuss,
and everybody, we all started fighting at the meat and
greet dinner, and that was a good time. We had
dinner with Craig and Stan Gordon and Kelly Beverly. But
I moved ahead. I moved ahead, and I was just
gonna let Cred all everybody got her side trip that
Friday before really kicking off the conference.
Speaker 2: Wend fall came in the morning when Lea seven a
full and spoiled with a special package that's worked out
really well. My little package or that was not any
illegal pharmaceuticals. It was a nice statue that we were
taking to a lady who had her stolen from her
from her store, and Craig was nice enough to uh
get her a replacement statue. And we begin our journey
from Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and Craig from Texas to come here
to a little wicked ink town of around a Polo,
Pennsylvania and bring a little happiness to make to miss
Nikki Hosack's life.
Speaker 3: That's right, little did she with sandwiches and beer?
Speaker 2: That's right, sand which is did she?
Speaker 1: Little? Did she know? The happiness us.
Speaker 5: Little town.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, Nikky six back is Ward's the town
they're so much is phenomenal. Those that Mike's headed lemonade
year and you can sint to have beverage drives go
ready for you, and I'll tell you that those are
the better turkey sandwiches I have had.
Speaker 6: You.
Speaker 2: You feel d though we did break her sign because
we broker exceeded the weight limit.
Speaker 1: They're gonna burn in hell, James, w at least.
Speaker 2: I'll get to talk to you.
Speaker 1: They're lighting the fire together. Jack asked, all right, before
we're go any further, we've got don keating on the line.
Don Keating has something you don't tell everybody about an
event next weekend who.
Speaker 4: Bring the honor of Shawn. I appreciate it.
Speaker 7: I just want to make a note of the fact
that with coming Saturday at Salt Fork State Park Lodge,
we're going to have a special guest speak around. That
will be mister Eric Allman, who just hosted the East
Coast Bigfoot Conference. Eric's going to be attendance and he's
going to be sharing many, many different slides on our
punt presentation. He's going to talk about how the conference land.
We're going to talk about several recent saturdays in southeastern
Ohio and again it will be just coming Saturday at
eight pm Saltfork State Park Lodge, and hopefully.
Speaker 1: Many of you will be able to make it cool.
I hope so, Don, and thank you for calling with
that and you folks, it's really important that you get
to these meet and greets. Wasn't a great opportunity to
network with fellow researchers and you know, find out what
everybody's doing. And Don, thank you for putting on these
uh these uh many conferences, as I like to call them,
as often as you do. They're a really great resource
and I hope to make it out to a few
of them.
Speaker 2: Hey, don are you still online? Is there a website
or something they can go to to get the information,
a phone number or somebody to contact and get them mister?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they can go to www, dot A, I C
dot net okay, and it's always under a recent under
recent news or upcoming events. It's always in one of
those sections. So it's a it's a good idea and
I hope everybody, uh you know that can can make
it after that at Softwork State Park next weekend.
Speaker 2: And if you have pictures of all travel travelers to
make you six bat together, Crypto Mum, Crypto mumber dot com,
or you can check my MySpace gyms be wild. We
have a lot of good pictures from the conference and
also from that trap to turn soft God's where it belongs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely check out a picture, folks, And I posted
them to go on the blogs that I've got a
lot of pictures on MySpace dot com slash Sean Falker.
James has this on MySpace dot com slash James by
Wild and of course they're always available on cryptomundo dot
com and look for the uh I believe it's the
post called Nicky's Quick six. Thanks cry Cryptomundo, Thanks James
for you started a bug.
Speaker 2: Thing there who lived an the fun time and every
you can also check the local paper. And then they
had a little one on that the hole stituation, and
maybe you know, Craig, you'd like to tell a little
better the whole story behind it. I mean both.
Speaker 4: Well, what happened was is with Nicky Ship in the
p store, I think in January, and her husband had
one of the design Toscano Fast West Garden statues and
he'd give it to his kind of a mascot, and
I guess everybody liked the statue and would come up
and get their picture made with it and then sat.
And then back in June, uh, some guys stole it
and they you know, he got picked up by local media.
And so we had posted it at Cryptomindo and they
had contacted us, and so we'd emailed back and forth,
and I told him that Crypto Mendo would replace the
statue for him if it never showed back up, and
and so it never did show back up. And at
at the point if I was getting ready to come
up to uh, Pennsylvania for the conference. Since their store
was only I think about thirty five miles or so
from where we were staying in New Stanton, I UH
contacted Designed Tuscano and asked them if they would donate one.
And so they donated the the statue and shipped it.
And UH, I didn't want him to ship it to
mee because I didn't want to have to carry that
thing on the on the airplane. And so I had
him had him shitt it to Sean since h he
was staying at a hotel not far from mine, and
so I called him into action to the special mission,
and UH it was delivered to him and and he
brought it up with him and then we hooked up
on Friday and drove up before the dinner and UH
and the rest is history.
Speaker 1: And history it was folks, I know. UH, the scenery
was wonderful. So it was a good time. I had
a blast hanging out with Craig and uh BJ, BJ
tell us some of your impressions you got from the
first day, and so just keep in mind that BJ
had no idea what he was getting into. Uh. We
had met just briefly over a phone review and I
invited him to be my guest up here at the conference,
and I think we.
Speaker 2: Had a good time.
Speaker 1: DJ. What do you think it was?
Speaker 2: It was fast. I mean I got to say again,
thank you guys so.
Speaker 3: Much for.
Speaker 2: Wep into no regrets whatsoever. You guys have took me
on one hundred percent and through me into every situation
you could And I think I saw just about everything
I possibly could ask for, so any inditional impressions, It
was just it was great and it was so wonderful
to see it's just trying to turn out and so
many serious people who were taking the taking the big
Foot community by storm and making up a lot of
or finding a lot of good flats and information for
layman like me is kind of new to the community.
It was really great to see some of the old
games you've been on it for years and kind of
picking their brains. You know, do you think the conference
achieve its goal and keeping it simple for you know,
as you said, even the way person who didn't have
a clue what Bigfoot was, or you know, even to
the extent of Bigfoot being known. You know, just speaking
for myself, I would say certainly, you know, I walked
in just knowing, you know, having watched a couple of
documentaries year and then I always having an interest. But
when I sat down fourth and have my little program,
and that was enough to guide me through most of
the most of the lectures. Took a lot of notes
and the pictures are really helpful, and everyone ever had
their own little take on things, you know, so whether
there was a tree twist or most scientific roles of
tumbling caster that sort of thing, and they there was
certainly something forever. It was quite the smortgage board of
bigfoot if he asked me, so I got it online,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1: The conference on it R James.
Speaker 2: We thank you for coming along this because five pleass
you know, it's always nice to have a fresh perspective
all what's going on. And I'll tell you that one
thing I did deals about the conference was everybody was kind.
Everybody was professional about it. You know, there wasn't any
you know, people laughing or people you know, hey, it's
this is just you know, the people that came to
the conferences actually wanted to learn something. And I think
even if they didn't believe that, you know, big footer
is what we believe it is. They took something. They're
late from the conference. It's the only important thing, right.
I think he has the right of me. When I
got back to you here, the first thing everyone wanted
to know in Alabama, well, did you see bee fruit
is real? And you know, I just told him that
it was just it was so it was so welcome
to see a community if people are so committed, not
that may bee proving or part too proving or disproving.
You know that you guys are open to everything, just
kind of getting to the bottom of it. So you know,
how to keep explaining they're not just people who are
die hard no matter what. He's right there in front
of me. You know, there's there's people who are are
taking this really seriously. And so I think the fresh
perspective and I think people even outside the community said
and understand kind of what you guys do, which is
kind of my goal thing writing about it.
Speaker 1: So what we what we're gonna do here for the
next probably thirty minutes to actually go through the conference program,
uh and get everyone, you know, if anyone has an opinion,
get you know, an depending on the speakers. The first
peak we had, of course was Eric Alton and Eric
getting over away of our bigfoot studies in Pennsylvania and
some recent investigations conducted by the PBS. And I thought
it was a very good presentation.
Speaker 2: James, Yeah, I you know what, Eric did a phenomenal
job of the conference. If anybody should stand up, you
know that did the most work on that, that would
be Eric.
Speaker 3: Eric.
Speaker 2: Eric probably didn't sleep that whole weekend, yet he was
one hundred percent you know, with it and understand what
was going on. And he was he was, you know,
telling stories and hey, keeping an eye on this and
keeping an eye on that. Because you could tell that
he put a lot of work into it and it
was something that he did to do, not because it
was something that you know, it was a label a
love almost you know, but that yeah, his first when
he explained some exciting and a lot of the PBS
was formed and stuff like that. I think it really
it really gave me an idea of why we have
conferences be suck. Yeah, I agree completely. And what I
really liked about Almonds presentation, you took us all the
way back to you know, the Native American tribes of Pennsylvania,
Sufia and Lina. Again, I took us Honora from eighteen
thirty eight, the first first documented starting up till you
know the two hundred and fifty setings that the TVs
has had in the last ten years. So I took
quite a stain and really simplified it and broke it down.
Has the really interesting pictures of a year of finding
a live of a tree, which I really found interesting
and give me to be a good perspective.
Speaker 1: Of what what kind of things that might be going
on in Pennsylvania. So really enjoyable. One of my favorites
probably anything you like.
Speaker 3: To a correct well, you know, I'm all about the
after party conferences are you know, great places to the
network and meet people.
Speaker 6: But you know, on the side, like the freaking town
of Peanut butter Pie. You did have a pound to
pie that was huge, that was.
Speaker 1: At the plate, waved like a tom Jamers dropped it
when she gave it to me.
Speaker 2: Yet you ate at all?
Speaker 8: No, I did.
Speaker 1: I didn't think that was gonna but I made room
before We're going from the Drumman and we have a
caller from the eight one seven area for every one
seven drum they are a Sasquart experience. Sean Ford James Baker,
B J. Hollows and Craig wools Heater car. Wow, that
had been funny if we could have understood it. Ass
he's square, yellon And I tell you, I wonder who
that is?
Speaker 3: Eight one seven is my area? Could?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Hopefully they had a bad connection or
bad case.
Speaker 3: And Jazz I was the post the number in the
chat room, so we can all we can all call
him back later. You know.
Speaker 1: It's a funny story. Last Sharing Anniversary, Shadow was a
guy from Michigan kept calling in and I told him
if he didn't stop, I was going to read his
number over the air, and he didn't believe me. And
I read his number of the air, and I haven't
heard anything from him since.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't he like a fourteen year old kid
or something. His mom smacked him.
Speaker 1: Up on the head. Uh, yeah, something else, something else?
And then no, that was not one of the chatters
in the room, asks if that was apple crab Dick. No,
that's not the same to apple crab Dick. But uh,
I have a feeling he'll be calling in sometime in
the near future. I got an email from him.
Speaker 3: Says that threatened to run him over with a newspaper truck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, James, that lady survived, run it cow.
Speaker 1: Survived. That's another story.
Speaker 2: That's the story he could tell other people. I'll tell
you that I've had an interesting life to be of
in different places.
Speaker 1: Some went along.
Speaker 2: Yellow mean dream.
Speaker 1: So our next. The next presenter at the conference was
one of my favorite was a Bob Chance from Maryland.
Bob was a dynamic speaker. I really felt he captivated
the audience and and you know, spoke about uh, you know,
a little on his book Green by Chance, and he
was James.
Speaker 2: Bob didn't even need a microphone. He had the whole
room just enticed on what he said. He moved around
the room. You know a lot of things he made sense.
He said, you saw if you expect that you're gonna
see big flat by walking down the woods in three hours,
you're confused, go home, have the cookie, get all with
your life. He said. Youn't expect to see wilderness creatures.
Expect to be there a couple of days, he says,
because at first, anything that you're gonna see needs to
be acclimated that you exist and that you're not a threat.
He says, you know, you don't. You don't You don't
see You're not going to be out there for a
couple of hours and see everything unless it's a chance encounter.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: He said, how to talk to how you could tell
the difference between somebody who's just you know, kind of
throwing smoke, or somebody might actually have seen something. And honestly,
the man, the man even in the beginning, he said, Love,
you know, I've had some trouble last month, the last
couple of months, he says, but at the end of
the day, I've done the best I can do, you know,
help just cause.
Speaker 1: Be doing anything you like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, yeah, I really like the real look listening
about I think you're right, Jens, he really done. How
to around about the microphone is kind of you could tell.
You could tell he was a former science teacher. You know,
he had no problem getting up there and chatting the
crowd of something. I really liked that.
Speaker 3: He said.
Speaker 2: He was really kind of talking to young people at
one point, and he just kept saying, you young people
need to get exposed to dirt and water and you know,
kind of getting them back out there into actually hunting
in the woods, you know, seeing what might be out there,
and he really stresses scientific aspect of it too. He
kept saying, you know, do not tell them to conclusions.
People aren't ask you why aren't there any bodies. He
gave three theories of perhaps why there aren't anybodies. He
really kept it scientific throughout and kind of stress that
that's the way to to give more credibility in the
field is to keep it on those terms. And he
called it the big foot, the ultimate endangered species of
something I hadn't heard before, but I thought it was
definitely worth taking note of.
Speaker 1: That was interesting to me. I know, you were selling
a few copies of his book Green by Chance, and
if you can get that on Amazon dot com or
any other fine book dealing establishment. Next guest speaker we
had on the list was Diane Stockett, and Diane's presentation
was interesting. I believe this was her first presentation, and
I just I love the reaction you get when when
she gave when don keating so brazen Lee asked her
about skunk apes and Florida, because if you know Diane,
she'll tell you, you know, very matter of fact that
there was no skunky and she had a very interesting presentation.
James I know you were pretty interested into her presentation.
Speaker 2: Well, she she did a lot of things. She broke
down a lot of the things. Was she chow you
a track and a lot of it was hard to
do a track. And you know she she mentioned that
if it has bread plows, it's not a fat squatch.
If it's got claws, it's probably a bear. But she
showed you different tracks and said, look, this is what
the track would look like for this animal to swip
the track. Why is the track elongated yet it's still
a bear and alligator. It's because in the sin that
she was using it, when you pressed your foot across
it actually made it look like a longer track, but
there actually was one track. The fact wasn't that she
was actually one of the most interesting speakers. But I
you know, before I had chilled a fall along because
I was next to Bob Chance and Snakes and they
kept trying to get it out. I mean, I had
talked to her on the meat free afterwards, and I
had talked to her when we went to the tour,
and she actually stated, you know, some of the theories
I had had about some people had seen misplace dates
or some people mistake as a bear. She actually shared
many sightings of how that is completely possible, So I
mean she was a really informative woman. I got to
date both can make it up from Florida and they
worked as a team. Who one came from the audience,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a very good medization. I totally enjoyed it.
And I also enjoyed being out into the woods with
Donna Corse, who has a unique ability to traverse any
terrain in her bare feet, which was kind of interesting,
but it was. It was a good tour.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: If anyone interested in any video on the tour, James
and I posted a couple on our conference brond if
He's Coast Bigfoot at blogspot dot com. It was a
little bitty we put together there and preparation and kind
of like a journal of our experience at the conference,
and it was the little blog site. You can go
on there and check out the three videos that we posted.
Speaker 2: All saw the video on my midspace and I'll tell
it that a couple more out as time goes on.
My big issue right now is I've got a new
program that I'm working with and I'm still trying to
get the ins and out of it. That's I'm addicted
to store.
Speaker 3: He is.
Speaker 1: He created a bigfoot on spore, folks, to tell you
how much free time James Baker has, ladies. His social
calendar is open. We have a couple of callers here,
one from the six sixth two area. Could I know?
This is Henry May Henry on the air.
Speaker 8: Hey, Hey, they Hey James Sean. I it was my
first opportunity to talk to you all since the conference,
and I'm in enjoying seeing all the different photos on
the different MySpace pages and the and the videos and
things like that of the tour. Very cool stuff.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 8: Craig's conference is coming up in a couple of weeks.
I would make it if I could, Craig, but my
youngest niece has a birthday the same day, so and
she wants me to attend her birthday party, so my
family priorities come first.
Speaker 3: Well, then really, we'll just go ahead and postpone the conference,
so you make it, then we'll put it back.
Speaker 8: To see No, don't do that on my account.
Speaker 1: We'll howdly. Looking at the way merchandise sold at the
East Coast conference, you know, we could have really used
your sales support there.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I wish I could have made it there. You know,
maybe I'll make it in No. Ten because I know
Eric's taking a year off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know you've got to get out there
and do your financial support as the Big Foo shows
you love and folks, if you're interested, we are selling
CDs the best of the Sasquatch Experience radio show available
for her us by emailing us at Sasquatch Experience at
gmail dot com. For the extremely low price of five dollars,
you two can have a CD of the Best of
the Sasquatch Experience. And that's the most. That's anouns of
maya infomercial there for the moment.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of probably gonna put a video presentation
together too. Actually have a friend of ours that works
the same post video.
Speaker 1: His name is Dan.
Speaker 2: He's doing he's doing a documentary for a prost he's taking.
We may introvert some of his video into ours and
put out something kind of like our MySpace video is
doing a little bit more of a production quality. Let's say, hey, Craig,
make sure you spend us plenty of pictures from yours
because we'd like to see how that we were there.
Speaker 4: Preatures in the conference. Hopefully there'll be people taking preatures.
Usually I'm so busious, you know, as though it can
tell you it's hard to do, uh have a camera,
would even be taking pictures, but uh, I'm sure someone will.
Speaker 8: I wanna ask Craig about, uh how Operation Forest Vigil
is going.
Speaker 4: Well, we in one of the areas uh down in
the Big Ticket. We don't know how it's going. We
haven't been down there since uh Hurricane Ike blew through,
so hm, I know there's a lot of closures down
there as well, some of the units of the Big Ticket.
So uh, I think there's talk of this coming week
end some of the team down there to do some
recon check out the cameras, uh see if everything's still there,
and uh service to cameras.
Speaker 3: That are.
Speaker 8: Now y'all got how many areas covers Miss Canons.
Speaker 4: I I think we've got cameras and I think about
four different.
Speaker 3: Areas in while uh Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana.
Speaker 4: While a lot of one lot a whole. You know,
it's a lot of cameras when you gotta get out
and maintain them. But uh as far as uh a
lot of cameras versus square footage of a forested area
in that poor state area. There's uh sixty five million
acres uh pision lands in those four states. Uh you figure,
uh we've got about uh point uh six cameras perm
per million acres.
Speaker 3: Sort of.
Speaker 4: Uh, I thot real good right now?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought the uh I hadn't I had a
chance to listen to the most recent bethcast. I listened
to number five when they talk when they first mentioned
about the uh, the the the the camera.
Speaker 8: Project some very fascinating sense, you.
Speaker 5: Know, and and I I don't end the very I
mean not very spring for ever in the rog all
that way, and in the heat, my gosh, but.
Speaker 4: The as eat no less, it's tough conditions, for sure.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it most certainly is them. But yeah, somebody was
asking in the chat room. I believe it was Kite Squatch.
And there's been rumors about the availability of the DVD
for the East Coast conference.
Speaker 1: There's no rumor, there's no speculation, there's no anything, because
at this point there is no DVD of the two
thousand and eight hees suposed to put conference the moment
I do know that we have a lot of law
footage of all the speakers, and you know, what we're
going to do with that is solely up to the
director of the TNSVANA big Foot Society, Eric Coleman, Right.
I mean, it's it's a lot of work to be
done on you know, all the all the footage has
been taken to go through and edit it and you know,
put it together in some sort of presentable fashion. So
I'm sure if it's going to be coming out and
will be coming out any time soon.
Speaker 8: H One more thing, Sean, you're gonna be celebrating two
years next week.
Speaker 1: Next week or the week after. I haven't decided yet
on what we're going to do. A lot of people
are wondering what's going on with the shows beyond the
Edge Radio and the Sasquatch experience, and there's been a
lot of activity going on for myself with work and
conferences and different projects we're working on. So unfortunately the
shows have suffered because of that. But it's the content
that's going to be provided on these shows that are
really where you folks are going to benefit from So
that I apologize are having.
Speaker 3: Shown me real is it the shows that have suffered
or is it actually the listeners that have suffered a
little bit of.
Speaker 1: I think anytime the listeners listen, they suffer, but they
keep coming back every week.
Speaker 8: All right, That's basically all I wanted to ask. Thanks
for answering my questions, and Craig, good luck with the
conference in two weeks. Yeah, you're welcome, and I'll be
watching for the coverage on the internet and things like that,
and I'm sure you'll probably get as much a newspaper
coverage as Eric did and also as Don did when
he had his.
Speaker 3: We can only hope.
Speaker 8: Yeah, all right, guys, I'm gonna take off. Thanks, thanks again,
and you'll take care.
Speaker 1: Thanks for calling Henry, Henry mury Foyette folks, former co
host All Around Big Flip Guy, wind back. Thank you
for calling you, Henry mt folks. Lot of applause, All right, everybody,
We right? What's that?
Speaker 2: That was clopping?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That was clapping?
Speaker 2: That was no other good gud.
Speaker 1: Jeames girl Seed. The next speaker that was after Dian
was I think bordering Dennis and he was talking about
the I got said digital camera where now I could
be misunderstood on this James because we were having a
lot of activity at the table and some other events
going on in the I didn't really get a chance
to fully pay attention. But the real innovations not exactly
in the camera itself, but in the casing or what's
the deal with that? Now I understand it, and maybe
I'm wrong, But how the wrong with it? Most cameras
they make a sound or the murtors actually make a
small sound where to you doesn't sound that much, but
to animals as they pick it up because the hearing
is a lot better in the tunes of different songs,
kind of like dogs canari aks, so that we can't.
So what I guess what he did was is he
made the case thing so it eliminated that vibration and
it eliminated that sound so that the new camera that
she that he has now won't won't admit any sound.
And that he did was he took a regular camcorder
that he could buy from Mike let's say best Buy,
because you know, Circuit City is on a fifty seven
cents to show we don't see them being around a
long time. But but you basically put that next to
a microphone and you can actually hear the noise coming
off of it with his camera. The way the casing
has made it felt without that noise, you didn't have
to hear. You couldn't hear anything. And that's what they're
trying to say, is the big reason why Big Philip
sous Qualee animals in general don't get pictured by the
camera is the simple fact is that they can hear
the noise from a distance, so they avoid the area.
His camera doesn't make any noise, so they're folding and
avoid the area. Very interesting. Do you say anything about that?
Speaker 2: Oh no, that was a really great actually snip away
from lunch at that time where I talked to Bill
quite a bit prior to conference and during the conference
about the camera, and he showed me kind of the
inner workings of it in the box that you bury underground,
the signal a sense to the camera, and how the
camera can actually run on a battery for six months.
I think he said, just it sleeps when movement that
he waked up, and it takes a picture, and I
really can check it out in the six months you
can go on one particular guy, which sounds like a
heck of an improvement, you know, there's some good possibilities
at this camera.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean being a good guy. He's he's been
working on technology for years. I'ven't known him since I
met him at Don's conference, probably in either two thousand
or two thousand and one, and we've we've worked with
him before on some other projects and looking forward to
getting one of the uh I got the systems out
in the field to do some field tisting down here
in Texas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a good guy.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: I thoroughly enjoyed the funeral and check out the spend
with him there at the conference and once the one thing,
the unfortunate thing about the conference is that everybody's so busy.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, every time you turn around, someone's snapping a
photograph for uh. Everybody has questions and you're pooled one way.
And it was a really exciting time for us. I know,
we spent a lot of time at our terrible which
we didn't sell anything, but it was good because we
got to sit next to Stan Gordon, who's a wealth
of information on bigfoot servings in Pennsylvania and some unusual
happenings in Pennsylvania, which is very James.
Speaker 2: We also got to meet Bob Crain, which you know
someone I spoke to a lot upon you The man
is really interesting, especially in person, because you know story
he tell.
Speaker 1: Bob's Bob clin is a great guy, a former police
chief of a Maine police department. I don't remember which
town exactly, but he has some interesting plans coming up
for the Bigfoot quests. I hope you all stick around
for and I let him announce those. But really nice,
very nice to meet him and Mike Killing of that show.
You spent a lot of time talking to these people
and being part of their show and building this uh
this you know, Bigfoot network, and it's just really nice
to finally put a face to a name, and it
was an enjoyable time.
Speaker 4: For all of us, you know.
Speaker 1: The second part of the hour that was given to
Builder and Guinness was given up for Mike Frizell, who
directs the Enigma Project. Mike isn't you know, one of
the nicest guys I think I've ever met, A very
very smart guy. He seems like he should be teaching
college courses. But yeah, he was discussing Theedar, which is
a new venture joint venture between the Virginia Bigfoot Research
organization and the ENIGMA Project, and CEDAR stands for the
Center for the Exploration and Documentation of Phenomenaly Reports and
they're going to be investigating, if you know, more than
just bigfoot. But I wish them the best and I
really look forward to more information on that group. Their
website will be coming out in a few months and
you can go see that at CEDAR files dot org
and hopefully all of you will check them out and
give them your support. Mike and bildrined in us a
great gentleman and it was just a pleasure, uh, meeting
them and sharing some big foot discussion. Moving on and
after that was a Billy Road from Virginia who was
one of my favorite speakers. A Billy was fun. Yeah,
I mean he brought a very I'm lacking the word,
I lacking the words, but it was very I should say, casual,
but comfortable, very inforn of. I mean he had some
good stories.
Speaker 2: James, he had a country style. When he te he talked.
When he talked, he talked, you know even why and
he he uh when he spoke to him, I lived
like you were sitting in his living room, and you know,
he felt comfortable to speak with you, and he knew
what he was talking about. You know, he was another
person that toutured the room without trying.
Speaker 1: Mhm, b J. How was your experience were?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good, as you asked. Came to talk
to him a couple of weeks before the conference. That
was a good day to meet him as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Something that I thought was really interesting is they're doing
out there. They're training training eagles to track.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: So he has a peetle named Atomy. He put on
a power point there and every weeks only started training
a dog to catch sense and kind of work on
uh tracking a big foot like creature, which I think
is really innovative techniques. You know, it may not be
the I Gotcha camera, but it's certainly making good use
of the resources at hand. So that was something unique
to d and stand When else really mentioned kind of
getting animals and dogs and sent tracking involved U in
the stirp. So that was I thought pretty interesting, uh
thing they're doing there in Virginia. It was interesting because
you know, one of the things you hear is that,
you know, a negative reaction towards dogs from the Sasquatch,
and I've never really heard of anybody really specifically training
dogs to go out and seek these creatures. And I
really hope there's some success with the project because it's
pretty neat, and of course no harm comes to Little
Autumn because as we know, the Sasquad isn't a big
fan of the Canaine. So it was kind of a
kind of an interesting piece there from Billy After Billy
was probably I would say one of the more unique
presentations in that of Sally Ramsey who was showing off
a ginormous tree twist. And Sally was pretty interesting. Sally
and the tree twist found by Olaf Siemens, and.
Speaker 1: It was just it was different.
Speaker 2: James, Oh, I got the thumb on that there drag,
Well was it from Mississippi?
Speaker 3: There?
Speaker 2: I bought that whole thing up from North Carolina? North Carolina,
I get the state's mixed up. Sorry, yeah, but the
fact is, you know they discuss about what the tree
twists might look like or hairy. How can you know
you don't really get the real effect and actually physically
look at one and look how the wind couldn't have
knocked that around. Something had been beating on that to
get it to twist. The lay good it gives you
a grander scare of that, you know what they're talking
about when they find these random you know, people go, well,
you know, we found this weird thing in the middle
of the mirror that makes no sense and there's no
animal around that will do that. And then you know
the wheel of this big branch in that's got you know,
the bark just ripped, either offered or twisted so much
around it you could tell that something that's been playing
with it for like four or five hours.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, let's find a dandy to speculate that's
what's made that tree twist. But you know, none of
us were there, none of us saw anything actually physically
do it. And Craig and I have some discussion on
that as well, and there was a lot of uh
speculation going on about that too many right else and
not in my fact, Greg, wouldn't you agree.
Speaker 4: Oh certainly, I mean, you know it it was very interesting.
It's uh, you know, it's it was pretty amazing that
you know, in my eyes, there's no evidence of that
sasquatch related. I don't know what could have done it,
but I don't jump on the bandwagon that The first
thing that you should jump on as.
Speaker 3: The what created it? Is a sasquatch? I know that.
Speaker 4: Uh that's certainly controversy out there, and I'm sure there
would be in the in the chat room as well,
but you know, it's just my opinion. I mean, I
don't know what created that, and uh so I'm certainly
not gonna say that the sasquatch did. There's anything you
make you put it there?
Speaker 2: Well? Oh yeah, I mean if for an outside looking in,
it was a really interesting thing to see. And I
actually I talked to a lot of the night before
and he may, ad, you see the treech you see
the twist that brought in. I had no idea who
was talking about, you know, I had to actually see
it with my own eyes. But yeah, it's interesting. I
guess the question that I never had answer is what's
the point for what? Where was wor some series behind
the tree twist the pigs that would do with for
for tracking purposes or for locational purposes and navigation. I
wasn't really sure why I would That's something I'd be
interested in hearing some series on. But yeah, I enjoyed
seeing it all the thing. That was quite an interesting
artifact to have, right there and it might have been
the most uh. I think. I think people really wanted
to have something physical in the room, you know, and
that's when you're the one piece of physical evidence that
was in the room with everyone. So it was a
hit for that reason alone. I mean, it was chargeable.
Speaker 1: I mean, it took two or three men to look
it into the building. And you know, my question is
into the velocity it was fabricated. My question to what
is is you know what made it? And we just
can't go off assuming that every trust in a tree
twist in the wa was just speak for me. Well,
you know, I agree Sean, and the question I had
and I don't know if I poised it, well, Stan
Gordon and I talked about it because you know as
well as I do. Stan Gordon has been doing these
investigations for years and years and years and it just
aughts the same as mine with the tree twists is why,
I mean, would why would that be the case. Why
is everyone's assumption that it's sasquatch. I mean, like I said,
I don't know what could have done it, if it's
read related or what.
Speaker 4: Machinery, But I'm just not ready to until I see
a sasquatch actually grabbed the branch and twisted around.
Speaker 3: Tired it or not.
Speaker 4: I'm not ready to say that it's sasquatch related.
Speaker 2: Oh and I'm not saying that definitely something. I'm just
saying that it just seems like the wind couldn't have
possibly done that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It just seems too you know, wrapped, you know, the
wind that would have broke offer it wouldn't have wrapped
it around. It's easy easily. That's why I'm you know,
I not did a person who knows, But the fact
is that, you know, you got to wonder where you
know there's something natural. It doesn't seem like it's a
natural event, you know what I mean, Like it there
was a real stormy weather and then there there's this
tree that's all mangled up. Well, the thing I want
to that I wanted to pose and I didn't pull
it publicly. But but the fact was that, you know,
people are always speculating that well, you know, these tree
twists are found in the areas of reported sasquatch activity.
But the question I had, well, you know, is anybody
looking into areas where there's no sasquatch related activity, and
are they finding these same kind of trees there twist?
You know, I mean if somebody's wanted to do the
research on it and wants to say that a you know,
fast watch doing this, well then we can know these
when there's no fasquatch activity, and you know, if you're
seeing these same times of things, then maybe that would
rule it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we may not ever know what made
the tree twist, but the fact of the matter is
it was still interesting enough to document and we do
thank them for bringing it. It was a hell of an
effort it took to get it here. It took, as
I said, two or three men to even lifted into
the conference hall. And it was interesting and thank them
for sharing it. But you know, at this point it's
still that leaves a lot of doubt in my mind.
Is that what could have you know, if it was
made by big footer and even just asked the question
what could have made it or Craig as you pointed out, why, Well,
you know, people talk about when couldn't have done that?
But you know I can show you pictures and bonds.
You know, we've done whether the research for years. You
can show you have pictures of two buffalos that are
driven all the way through through an oak tree, you know,
in a storm. So I mean storms and the weather
in nature can do some strange things than you. They can.
And it was interesting. And another piece of evidence that
Salah presented well, and she hadn't call it evidence, but
it was a piece of interest was the game cam
photo that they shared. And I thought that was interesting
in the fact that there's a picture A and then
they have that have picture B, which is this exact
vicinity both. The one thing I did notice is that
there were different focal likes away. One was a little
bit closer than the other. But in the one photograph
is a distinct black object in the watered area. As
she points out, you can she's I don't want to
say she's modified the image, but the graphic designers or
whatever she the terms she coined, had brought enough detail
out of that so you could see what it was,
and it looks like, you know, there's a distinct brow.
It's interesting and uh, it was just an interesting photograph
to me, she said. She pointed out that it's never
gonna prove anything to anybody. Uh, she doesn't know what
it is. But not in my life that I was
just thankful that she shared it with me because it
did piaup my interest a little bit big James, you
said with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm immutely round for a minute there.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: He said, I love to be with something that you
need to hear my refrigerator open in the photo be poor,
you know. But yeah, the pictures and the stuff that
they brought with them, you know, did make a difference
of seeing it is more believed, being able to believe
with them, you know, just say we've seen these weird
things and this is what they point to. As the
conference went on, there were a few other things that
they were kind of that, you know, going through signed
to different things, and I think that kind of that
kind of pushed me sometimes towards the other way that
some people believe too much and everything they see, Like
we're going on the guided tour and a woman was like,
there's some rocks on top of that stick, and I said, yeah,
probably the construction guys that are making the Jass name
got bored, you know, But to her, anything she saw
it seemed to be like a sign.
Speaker 1: You know, great, did you anything you guys thought about
in the picture that was interesting.
Speaker 4: Or well, I know there were some people there that
actually saw the actual photograph itself. I just saw what
was god get you know, shown up on the screen,
and from the angle we were at, you know, I
could see a you know, a dark area. I wasn't
able to discern any detail from it or anything. So
I got with in that and the sail than you know,
with the photograph that suppose you know, supposed to this area,
and then very you know, a later shot that shows
something so you know it was a dark object in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As I pointed out too that the sorry DJ, give
me one moment, that the photographs were taken from two
different cameras. The photograph with the object in question was
taken with a four megapixel trail camera. Was the area
beforehand or the area taking was that before? After the
shot with the supposed object in the photograph, the area
was taken with an eight megapixel camera. So that sort
of noteworthy is because as you know, more megapixels and
I wanted you to blow it up more with more
detail and more clarity.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've been jumping and said I have seen
see the picture the night before at dinner off started
with me, and it was it was really I mean,
pretty clear that there's something there. But I mean personally,
I don't I don't trust my head enough, you know.
I just you had a big foot conference. Someone tells you,
this is a picture of something that may or may
not be a big butt, and automatically my mind's going
in a way that I've seen clotures my eyes as
much as I be apt in a more neutral environment,
you know, all the same. That was really fascinating for sure.
But yeah, I know, I guess you know, you can
the pictures so much in the end, and if you're
there knowing you're supports to maybe see a big boat, you're.
Speaker 1: You're mind going to play a trick on you their hat.
Speaker 2: That's well, it's all the same, no question about it
was really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the pictures were there. I mean, I
was once again thankful for them to bring it. But
it's the one thing to noticate it is that no
clue is that we're not saying, you know, anybody's wrong,
or we're not saying that nobody has any evidence. It's
just taking an objective look of what was presented. And
I said the same on myself is that you know
those photographs they treat my interest. I was interested in those,
and I thanked her personally. You know, I'm known as
a pain in the ass. Uh, you know, the quote
unquote romantics. But that's the one thing I require is
evidence before we start making these these claims. And I
was really thankful personally that the boy she presented to
the audience was, look, these are the photographs we have.
They're compelling that they're not going to prove anything, and
I appreciated that. The next, I believe, the last speaker
we had for the night was I think I'm at.
Speaker 3: I wanted to I wanted to go ahead and make
him up there.
Speaker 4: I guess living to Sally as one of the romantics
that the worker is that well, is that what you
were alluding to Sally was one of the romantics? Well,
I was issusing, you know, the general romantics of a
general category.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Well, I know, I know it's interesting. You know I
know that she's isn't she involved with the bfo O?
I mean they you know, I don't really know that
much of about the whole deal, but you know, it's
it's for me to thrail in everything that you know,
not only is she involved, I guess in some formal
fashion would be the bflo that she's also involved in
film formal fashion that you know Janice Carter. So that's
kind of a interesting uh uh relationship there with everybody involved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, that's another thing you have to
look at when you know the people presenting the evidence
of the associations and their past histories and with uh,
you know, in the field the associations and some of
the situations they've been involved in. I know she's a
big believer and supporter of jan Carter, but you know,
as I said, the one thing that impressed me was
her you know, objectivity she put forward from presenting the details,
and I think that was a little bit more palatable
to everybody in the audience. I think that made a
uh made it a little bit easier for some people
that very skeptical and I know the background to swallow it,
even myself and I had a conversation with her engine
Carter at the conference, and they understand where I stood,
and I thanked them for providing us with what they have,
but at the point told them that you know, I'm
not gonna be believe her until they showed me the monkey.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't get a chance to talk to Jenna,
but Michael thirty and I were entertained by her. I
believe four year old to Hunter for a period of
time there after the conference and her her daughter is cute,
attic for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was something else. She had me busted the
seams for a few minutes, dancing around talking to everybody. Hilarious.
So it brings us to the last speaker of the
night there, guys, was Tom Lancaster, and Tom had the
I think the off part of trying to make science interesting,
and Tom had a lot of science he was discussing.
But I think the biggest problem with the presentation is
that everybody was getting up. That was the end of
the night, and people were getting up and I think
distracting some of the other people that really wanted to listen.
Because Tom had a lot of science to go over,
and some of it was very interesting, and I had
to guilty that I got the world when he started
going into the whole gts and everything. So I was
hoping that one of you find gentlemen on the line
and I could fill me in on what Tom the
meat potatoes of Tom's presentation. I don't know if you
caught any of that, James or DJ or, because I
know Craig and I were discussing some of what Tom
was saying, and then it went pandemonium with the audience.
Speaker 2: I'm going down and got something to eat. Well, I
came back to basically what he was trying to do
is look at where tracks were d gp ass and
then from there he was going to see if they
pointed towards another track. But I think that he got
sidetracked on some of the comments some of the other
people made, and that was where he kind of said,
you know, they we're not tell sure, And you know,
I think I think some of the people that weren't
listening well or didn't want to listen to what he
had to say kind of like gotting flustered.
Speaker 1: There was an old prick in the audience who was
just a pain in the ass during that presentation, and
I think it was the same man that was a
pain in the ass to me on the Guard tour.
But it's one of the things you always got to expect,
I guess when speaking of one of these conmises, is
that someone's always going to have a heckler it did
you anything you'd like to add to Tom's presentation? Ye,
good presentation. It was frustrating, right, everyone was kind of
pitching midway through. It was a long day, so we'll
give it to him. I think seven hours of straight
presentations is tough for anyone. But he mentioned a lot
about looking for hydrogen sulfide and sillennium in the environment.
He's trying to do something with one of those. I
here which chemical compound. One of those have to do
with reproduction for nursing milk, I think, and so I
want to do with reproduction cycles and that sort of thing.
But it's very I guess that it's got some really
great ideas. Just trilling to listen in horror when squeaky
chairs and people are wandering around, you know, kind of
leaving like you said. But yeah, definitely definitely a lot
of marriage that he had had to work with. I
think that's a lot of the most scientific group really
working on the science back kind of thing. That a
little validity, a little more validity to the field. So
it was good. It was really enjoyable. Well, correctly it
has ended. Why don't you go and played the conference
for the people that have been catching the archives so.
Speaker 4: You can get your information that Texas Bigfoot Batter organ
the conferences. UH October eighteenth from Jefferson, Texas, Peter Burn,
Henry Fahrenbach during a Holy Field Alton Higgins door, I'll
call you. Kathy Strain is gonna be speaking now.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 4: Rick Moll will be there in attendance. Spent some time
at Rick yesterday up in the Boggy Creek area, UH
filming for a five monster episode of Monster Request. So
that was interesting. Uh left the area about one thirty
this morning and got home about six thirty this morning.
So but uh stick and I hired and kevinly Mosquito bites.
Speaker 1: Well, guys, that's all the time to have done there.
But I thought the personally take a moment, thank you
Craig for uh, you know everything at the East Class
State for conference recon. Had a good time. Finally nice
to meet you and to hang out, and UH thanks
for joining us here tonight.
Speaker 3: Thereint no problem, guys, and DJ I'll go ahead all
for sure, that's right, and UH, I'll be looking forward
to coming to some of those future Texas conference In DJA.
Speaker 1: Margna was going to have then. I hope to make
it DJ soon. It was a pleasure meeting you, and
I'm surprised you regained your son of the after studying
a lucent with James and I, I.
Speaker 2: Will the guys would be doing thought from over this summer.
I really would take out and been a day or
two with you was a blos. I can't thank you enough.
I want to tell you real fast. When I was
in the airplane on the ride home, I opened the
sky Mall magazine and there in the sky Mall was
the exact uh Perino Uh Sasquatch three day to Nicky
right there they're selling right there on the airplane. It
was unbelievable for all, unbelieved right toward all send studio.
But yeah, thanks again, guys. There was a block and
I got a lot of writing going on. I said
the question that I'll be in.
Speaker 6: Test too, don't worry.
Speaker 1: Well, fantastic, keep those questions coming. Uh, folks, you've been
listening to the Sasquatch Experience on Folker, James Baker, Credit
Will Eater and BJ Hollows Uh keep on s question everybody,
good night. We'll see you next week. Melissa Hovey will
be discussing her casting project. So stick around because next
week we'll be talking about Melissa's feet more.
Speaker 2: Will also be covering the dotted poor we there we go, Yeah,
I all fye
Speaker 1: M hm