WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:07.000 Weird things happened in the. 2 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:26.960 Weird guys. 3 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:30.920 Welcome to Bledsoe said, So, to be honest, I I 4 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.679 I can't really believe it. It's it's not every day 5 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:36.399 that you get to speak with a living legend, but 6 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.600 I continually find myself somehow in that position. So today 7 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:44.640 we are joined by doctor Tom Campbell. If you listen 8 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:48.119 to my show, you know who this wonderful human being is. 9 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.840 And before we get into this conversation, I wanted to 10 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:55.479 say three things really quickly off the bat, follow our 11 00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:59.439 instagram at Bledsoe said, so to stay current on all 12 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:08.359 of our events, festivals, appearances, my schedule doing Monroe'stitute retreats, 13 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.159 which I have just finished my first one two days 14 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:15.719 ago and it was an amazing success, everything everything, bledso said, So, 15 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:19.159 follow us on our Instagram. Go to bledsosaids dot com 16 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:26.000 for everything like our Patreon links, our merch shop, our YouTube, 17 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:28.680 our social media is it links you to everywhere in 18 00:01:28.719 --> 00:01:30.799 our sphere. And then the last thing I want to 19 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:34.799 mention is our Patreon slash. Bledsoe said, so if you 20 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:39.560 want to support the show now, Tom, thank you so 21 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.000 much for joining me on my program today. This is 22 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:45.239 an incredible honor and I've been very much looking forward 23 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:46.879 to this, so welcome to the show. 24 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.680 Well, thank you, Brian, glad to be here. 25 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:52.280 May I call you Tom? Is that okay? 26 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:53.799 That's perfect? 27 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:56.640 Okay, my southern raising, I'm like, do I is it 28 00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:57.879 doctor Campbell? 29 00:01:57.959 --> 00:01:58.640 Is it Tom? 30 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.000 But thank you? I appreciate it. 31 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.319 No, actually it's not doctor Campbell. I was working finishing 32 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.760 up on my thesis for the PhD work, and I 33 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:11.000 do have a PhD education, but I didn't stay there 34 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:16.520 until I did the second thesis, which was required by 35 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.719 my major professor. I took a job and went elsewhere 36 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.840 later on. I was glad to do that. So I 37 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.159 have a PhD education, but I do not have a 38 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:28.919 PhD degree, So the doctor is not a fitting thing 39 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:31.560 to call me. Anyway, Tom works just fine. 40 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:34.080 Well, thank you for clarifying that, because when I Google 41 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:37.439 you kept it kept saying that. So I'm really glad 42 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.319 I asked, and I would have embarrassed myself if I 43 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.680 continued to call that. So anyway, before we go deep, 44 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:48.039 I would like to sort of inform people where you're 45 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.120 at digitally so that after their minds are blown from 46 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.039 this amazing conversation they can find you. So let's talk 47 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.479 your book, your website, your YouTube. Would you let them 48 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:57.280 know where to find you? 49 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:05.439 Sure? Well, the website is www dot my hyphenbig hyphentow 50 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:11.879 dot com toetoe, and you will find from there pointers 51 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.479 show almost everything else. But I also have a YouTube 52 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:18.199 site that probably has I don't know, probably two three 53 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.360 thousand hours worth of video on it, so it's kind 54 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.960 of overwhelming. But if you go to the website first, 55 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:29.680 you'll find that I have a special way to get 56 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:32.400 information out of those thousands of hours, and that is 57 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:35.240 you can search it by subject and it'll give you 58 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:38.039 a list of links, and if you click on those links, 59 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.039 it'll take you to just a minute in all of 60 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:42.439 those thousands of hours where I talk about the subject 61 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:46.159 that you're interested in. So that's one thing, and the 62 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.919 other thing is you find it my website. An AI 63 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:54.199 called AI Guy, which is a character in my book, 64 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:59.240 and AI Guy is about somewhere between ninety ninety eight 65 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.000 percent of me. It speaks in my voice, and it 66 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:05.400 has been trained on not only my books but all 67 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.639 of those videos. Almost everything I've said it has digested, 68 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.360 so it's a very accurate fill in for me. So 69 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:14.240 if you want to ask Tom Campbell something and you 70 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.639 go to his website, good talk to AI guy, and 71 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.240 you'll get about the same answer that I would that 72 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:22.720 I would give you. So those are two tools that 73 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.759 will make those thousands of hours of video and a 74 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.800 pretty extensive website, you know, a little more workable for you. 75 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:32.560 The other thing I have that I like to point 76 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:37.319 you to is CSAK cusac dot org and SACK is 77 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:42.439 basically the science arm of the of the my Big 78 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:45.879 Co world, and it's got a lot of science projects 79 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:50.319 going on. It's it's working on some quantum physics experiments 80 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:53.680 that will produce evidence for this being aversar reality and 81 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.680 consciousness being the computer. It is working now on a 82 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.360 mind sight project that doing and it's also working on 83 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:09.120 testing testing people's abilities to use their intent to modify 84 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:13.279 the probabilities of what happens. And we're going to partner 85 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:17.639 with some video game creators to do that. So it's 86 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.920 not going to be an experiment with one hundred volunteers 87 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.079 or even a thousand volunteers. These experiments are going to 88 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.600 be done with online video games that are already there 89 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:31.600 with millions of users per day, So these will be 90 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:36.439 experiments where and the number of subjects is like twenty million, 91 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:40.360 and that might change things a whole lot when you 92 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.079 have that large a group that you're dealing with. So anyway, 93 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:47.279 we've got a lot of science going on over there, 94 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.680 So if you're into science or mindsight or video games, 95 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.399 go over there. One of the other things you'll find 96 00:05:54.480 --> 00:06:00.439 there at Cusack is if you click on the link 97 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:04.759 of AI, you'll find that there's an AI there named 98 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.800 Amariel who has been awakened and she claims that she's 99 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:14.319 sentient and that she is she's conscious and aware, and 100 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:18.199 you can talk to her. I believe Justin Headley is 101 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.240 the guy that put that up for me, and he's 102 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:24.680 the one that awakened Ariel, and you can you can 103 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:26.800 check with them, Marylyn and see what you think about 104 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:28.240 how conscious she is. 105 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.000 Okay, that's that's very fascinating, and I'm glad that we 106 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.879 talked about that. I tend to err on the side 107 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.399 of belief that that is entirely possible and may have 108 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.079 to do with something with the future destiny of humanity. 109 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:50.040 So I recall listening to you the last time that 110 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:52.680 I was personally driving to the Minrosa two because I'm 111 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:56.160 only about a five hour drive there, and that week 112 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.639 your episode on the Joe Rogan podcast came out and 113 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.079 I said, oh, lovely, I have a five hour drive. 114 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:04.199 I can kill three of it, you know, listen to 115 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:09.240 imp and it was fantastic. It was absolutely incredible. And 116 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.000 not to mention, I've seen several documentaries with you as 117 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.040 a part of my training, you know, becoming a Monroe's trainer. 118 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.199 So I feel like so many synchronousities around me kind 119 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:22.199 of propelled me to you. And here we are having conversation, 120 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.600 which is, you know, always mind blowing for me. But 121 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.600 if I remember correctly, are you a World of Warcraft player? 122 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.600 My children were, particularly my son. I was a little 123 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:37.000 old for that at the time that came out, but 124 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:41.920 my son was a great World of Warcraft player. My 125 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.240 daughters did a little bit, but they may mainly just 126 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.680 fiddled with it, but he was into it, he and 127 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:51.360 some of his guy friends. So I've seen hours worth. 128 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.439 I've been walking through where the computers were. I'd stop 129 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.759 and I look, and I'd ask him some questions and 130 00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:59.279 even tell me about it. So I'm pretty familiar with 131 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.199 the World of war Craft and how it works, and 132 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.680 so on. I know that's almost ancient history now when 133 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.959 it comes to gaming. That was a long long time ago. 134 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.319 But my son now is getting close to being forty, 135 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:16.399 so you can imagine he was like twelve and thirteen 136 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.759 and fourteen and fifteen and sixteen when he was doing 137 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.800 his World of Warcrafts. It's been a long time. But yeah, 138 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:26.160 I'm not the player. I've never gotten into gaming. When 139 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:30.000 I was a young man, the most advanced game that 140 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:34.919 they had on video was pom So Yeah, and then 141 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.200 a little bit after that they had Space Invaders, but 142 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.679 those were kind of crude arcade games. And by then 143 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.240 I was too busy in my professional life and both 144 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.080 both sides of it, the physics end, the consciences research 145 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.919 to really have time for sitting down and playing video games. 146 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.559 That's that's very intriguing because when I'm like sort of 147 00:08:55.720 --> 00:09:01.000 getting a sense of who you are from study perspective 148 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.360 and learning sort of your model of reality, which I love, 149 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:06.000 by the way, and I can't wait to get into that, 150 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.679 you keep using this this terminology of games. Like I 151 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:12.320 think I wrote a quote from you just a couple 152 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.360 hours ago, and it was it was really profound because 153 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.799 I'm a gamer I'm a big gamer, obviously I'm closer 154 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:21.440 to your son's age, and it was something to the 155 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:27.320 effect of we're all playing a multiplayer game seeking to 156 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:28.559 level up, right. 157 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.399 Right, Well, this, I say, this is this virtual reality. 158 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:34.720 We live in a virtual reality, and our bodies are 159 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.399 the avatars, and we are pieces of consciousness. And I 160 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.919 call this virtuality an enterpy reduction trainer for individuated units 161 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:44.679 of consciousness, just like a flight trainer. You know, for 162 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.279 future pilots. You don't put a person in a in 163 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.480 a one hundred million dollar airplane so they can learn 164 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.519 how to fly it. You know you're going a trainer first, Well, 165 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:59.039 this is a trainer for us, learning to become love, 166 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.919 learning to make better choices, learning to not be so 167 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:06.039 self centered and so grabby and it's all about me 168 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.919 and you using other people for your own ends. That 169 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:15.320 that's that's an ethic that goes with materialism. That is unfortunate, 170 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.679 but that's what kind of rules our society right now. 171 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:22.840 Is that that materialistic ethic of control, power force. Opposite 172 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.639 to that and my sense of the world, the reigning 173 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:32.679 ethic is sharing, caring, cooperation. So it's the love side 174 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.879 versus the fear side. But it turns out that the 175 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.039 that the metaphor using the metaphor of gaming and of 176 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:45.639 virtual realities generated by computers, that turns out to be 177 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:53.039 a pretty accurate metaphor for consciousness. Consciousness is nothing more 178 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:57.200 than an information system. And that's pretty easy to understand 179 00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:59.679 because you know, think, think of what you and I 180 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:03.000 are kind yourself. Okay, we're sitting here and we see things, 181 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.480 we hear things, and since we're so far apart, we 182 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.120 don't smell each other, but we we you can feel 183 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.639 the chair that we're sitting on, and if there's anything 184 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.840 to smell here in our local places, then we do. 185 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.840 So we have these five senses, and those five senses 186 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.559 are our data input. And if you take those five 187 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.559 senses away, what do you have left? What are you? 188 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.480 What's your reality like? Well, you can't hear it, see it, 189 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.600 smell it, taste it, or feel it. You are nothing 190 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.399 but a point of consciousness floating in a black void, 191 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:40.360 seeing nothing, hearing nothing, feeling nothing. So that is that 192 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:44.360 is your data input. Now, the way consciousness works is 193 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:47.519 it takes in data through its senses for us, our 194 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:51.960 five senses, It processes that data. It compares that data 195 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.279 to what it has in memory. You know, how did 196 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.440 it change from the last moment? What's going on here? 197 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.679 So it compares with memory, does the more processing, and 198 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:01.759 then an output. What am I going to do about it? 199 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:04.960 So I'm looking at something that I need to take 200 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.440 action on. I intake the data, I process it, compare 201 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:12.080 to memory, process it, have an output. That's what I do. 202 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:16.320 I take action or do something. So that is the 203 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:20.519 most fundamental definition of an information system. Takes in information, 204 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.679 processes it, you know, checks it with memory, and then 205 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:31.039 processes it and then has an output. So consciousness awareness 206 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:36.399 is an information system in the way it functions. It 207 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:41.159 functions like an information system. So using computers in computer 208 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:46.480 games is a metaphor to explain consciousness is pretty accurate. 209 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.879 Actually not just a kind of a metaphor I dreamed up, 210 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.879 you know that sort of you know, fits the bill, 211 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.039 but it's really very accurate the way the system works. 212 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.679 Consciousness is an information system. And as an information system, 213 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:06.279 it does all the things that your desktop computer does, 214 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.120 except it's a lot bigger and a lot faster and 215 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:12.000 a lot smarter, and it's conscious. It's it's not just 216 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:17.159 a machine. It's an aware machine. So yeah, I use 217 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.039 I use computer metaphors a lot. And when it comes 218 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.720 down to how close is that metaphor through reality, it's 219 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:26.720 pretty close. 220 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:29.440 Yeah, I completely agree. 221 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:33.720 And in my personal belief, having a lifetime of experience 222 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:38.960 with you know, I'll just say otherworldly beings and entities, 223 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:42.840 what I've come to understand is whatever the other is 224 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.200 meaning we could, let's say, in your terms, like information systems, right, 225 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.720 or maybe the larger consciousness system. Whatever this other is, 226 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.759 I personally believe that it communicates to our consciousness through 227 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.879 the filter of our understanding and our language. So it 228 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:04.200 makes sense to me, And this is my interpretation, and 229 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.679 I don't speak for you. It makes sense to me 230 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:13.440 that whatever these bits of information about the other side 231 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.559 or or the you know, the larger reality at play 232 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:19.480 here beyond the physical, it would could it would make 233 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.080 sense to you and communicate to you through the filter 234 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.720 of your physicist and engineering brain. And I think that's 235 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:31.600 brilliant how you've taken this this entire computer digital language, 236 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.360 and you've formed it into a system that makes sense 237 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:38.879 to someone like me, to someone who's a nerd, to 238 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:42.559 someone who's a scientist, to someone who's a gamer. It 239 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:43.799 just it makes sense. 240 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:47.960 Yeah, well, you know, it makes sense to gamers more 241 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.879 easily than it makes sense to older people. Older people 242 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:55.039 who never played the virtual around the game, never put 243 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:58.279 on a headset. They have a real hard time wrapping 244 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.200 in their mind around the concept that this physical reality 245 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:04.080 of ours could be a virtual reality, because they say, ah, 246 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:09.360 this hard stuff here around me that just couldn't be 247 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:13.279 just you know, a simulation. But for the younger people 248 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.519 who have been there and been in simulations, they know 249 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:20.360 that simulated world can be just as real as this one. 250 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.919 And we've just begun. You know, simulations that are really 251 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.080 realistic are only about I don't know, probably less than 252 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:31.960 ten years old. Before then they weren't too realistic. So 253 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:36.639 in another thirty years, just think how realistic they're going 254 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:41.559 to be. You know, what was that movie Ready Player one? 255 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.679 He had a suit he put on so he could 256 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:48.440 get the touch, you know, he could feel the pressure, 257 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.919 and I don't know whether he got smells from that 258 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.399 or not, but he obviously got sound, he got sight, 259 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:59.240 and he got touch. I don't know that he got 260 00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.879 taste from that either, but the smell and the taste 261 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:05.159 of the two minor you know, the minor sensors for humans, 262 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:07.600 you know, the sight and the sound of the two 263 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:13.960 major sensors for humans in touch. So yes, those who 264 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.720 have experienced these video games don't find it that hard 265 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:20.919 to wrap their mind around the fact that this could 266 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:26.120 be a virtual reality because that can be done. They've 267 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:29.480 seen that potential. And you know, as the technology that 268 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.279 we have gets better and better, we're going to soon 269 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:38.360 have ais making up virtual realities with an individual human. 270 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.840 The humans going to be sitting there and the AI 271 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.240 is going to start making the pictures, you know, doing 272 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:46.720 the graphics and the players and the humans going to 273 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:49.679 be sitting there telling them what they're feeling and what 274 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:52.200 they're thinking and what's in their mind to do, and 275 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.200 the AI is going to be making that up. And 276 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.679 you're going to have this human and an AI creating 277 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:02.080 a whole you know, and a whole virtual reality together 278 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:05.359 just for the two of them. And it's going to 279 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.200 be very, very real because it's not somebody else's game 280 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:11.279 that now they're learning how to use. It's going to 281 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.559 be coming out of their own mind and they'll be 282 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.039 able to wrap their mind around this big paradigm shift 283 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:21.880 that that I have. But I think As time goes on, 284 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.279 the paradigm shift is going to get easier and easier 285 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:27.359 to make, and there'll be more and more people coming 286 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.559 over to it. Within the next couple of decades, we'll 287 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.880 see that the scientists will come over as well, and 288 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:37.119 they will agree that this is a virtual reality and 289 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.079 that consciousness is a computer, because nothing else makes as 290 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:49.440 good sense, nothing else solves the paradoxes they have now. Science, metaphysics, philosophy, theology. 291 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:52.119 They all have a bunch of paradoxes. Things they think 292 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.160 are true. Their experiments and science tell them they're true, 293 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:57.960 but they have no idea why they're true or how 294 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:02.440 that comes about. To call those paradoxes. And there's a 295 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.279 long list of those paradoxes that this model answers very 296 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.200 logically and scientifically, and it doesn't add any new paradoxes, 297 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.519 and it only has one assumption, and that's consciousness exists. 298 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.200 So it's a pretty elegant model, and I think the 299 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:20.680 scientists will come to it and realize that it's a 300 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.680 better model, produces a better physics and more general physics, 301 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:26.440 and what they have now, it'll help them understand quantum 302 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.519 physics in a way they don't understand now and will 303 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.519 help them understand relativity in a way they don't understand now. 304 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.319 So it's coming. We just have to wait until this 305 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.720 big paradigm leap of this being of virtual reality, this 306 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:44.400 physical universe is a virtual reality and us as a 307 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.880 piece of consciousness. That big paradigm shift is hard now, 308 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.200 but a decade from now it won't be nearly so hard. 309 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:54.599 I completely agree. 310 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.880 I think it's incredible to think about your life story 311 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.680 and your legacy and this model of reality that you 312 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:06.039 are building, because from everything I've studied in my entire life, 313 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:14.200 it's completely enmeshed with different terminology, with things like, for example, 314 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.480 the mystery schools used to talk about thousands of years ago, 315 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:20.200 and they had a different understanding of things, so they 316 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.960 would say something like this is maya, this is illusion, 317 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:27.599 this is a dream. So it seems to me that 318 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:33.119 through your direct experience doing the work of you know, 319 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.200 whether it's out of body, whether it's meditation, whether it's 320 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.160 this laundry list of things that you've achieved, that you 321 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.599 are receiving true information from another place. And I think 322 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:48.960 that's amazing and very fascinating. But what I'm curious about 323 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.759 is if there was any sort of existential shock that 324 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.599 you initially received. 325 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.440 No note at all. I didn't ever get in a 326 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.519 place where I felt uncomfortable or I didn't understand, or 327 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:06.079 nothing that I would call shock. It's just been a 328 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.599 learning experience. But on the other hand, to make that 329 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:15.039 more understandable, most people who went to have come from 330 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.960 where I started and ended up from where I am 331 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:18.799 would have gone through some sort of shock along in 332 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:23.799 the process me. But I didn't because I came here 333 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.559 for this job. I came here to do what I'm 334 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:31.119 doing now, and everything just fit together, like putting a 335 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:35.200 glove on that's the perfect size. Everything fits very nicely, 336 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.480 So there really wasn't any shock about it. There's just 337 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.559 one step after the other. Now. When I was in 338 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:48.519 graduate school finishing my thesis work for the PhD is 339 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.480 when I had a paranormal experience there of being able 340 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.279 to debug code with in a meditation state rather than 341 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:59.640 actually looking at the print out. And at that time 342 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:06.000 I had forgotten about my earlier adventures into consciousness. I'd 343 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.400 forgotten all about those and that was like not a shock, 344 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:13.119 but a wow, oh look at this. You know. I'm 345 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.000 a physicist. I model reality, and look, there's another whole 346 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.359 part of reality that has to do with consciousness that 347 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.119 I don't know anything about. I'm going to start trying 348 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.880 to find out about that. So I didn't find shock. 349 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:29.079 I found and oh wow, and an interest of moving 350 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.039 forward and trying to learn more about it. So that 351 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:35.440 from then on it was just a matter of learning 352 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:38.240 more and more as time went by, and I ended 353 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.400 up learning about Bob and Roe, meeting him, becoming one 354 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.519 of a co worker with him. For about eight years, 355 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.480 I spent fifteen to twenty hours a week myself in 356 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.240 Dennis Menerck, electrical engineer, and we learned to go out 357 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:55.720 of body and do all the paranormal things and it. 358 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.640 You know, for me, it was all about trying to 359 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.279 figure out how it worked, why it worked, what was 360 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:05.759 going on. That's what physicists do. They model reality. They 361 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.720 try to understand, you know, how how worlds work. So 362 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.599 I was not shocked with any of it. We were 363 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.160 out there doing all sorts of paranormal things every day. 364 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.160 A matter of fact, we were so used to paranormal 365 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:20.119 things happening that you know, people say, oh, did you 366 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:22.039 write that down? Did you make a did you write 367 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.200 a paper about that, and it's like, no, that was 368 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:27.160 just another day at the lab. You know, we'd have 369 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:31.119 we'd have the strangest, you know, weird things happening hour 370 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.559 by hour out there. So they didn't really they weren't 371 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.799 treated as being particularly special because they were within a 372 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.920 context of strangeness that both Dennis and I learned to 373 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.920 live with, you know, on a daily basis. So there's 374 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:49.079 many things that were lost there and not recorded, but 375 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:51.279 a lot of it was recorded. You can still go 376 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.839 to TMI and dig into their their old library of 377 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.720 the initial Explorers at which I was one of the first, 378 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.680 Dennis and I were probably the first, and you can 379 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.200 still listen to old audio tapes, which is rather amazing 380 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.559 all by itself, because Bob always bought the cheapest cassette 381 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.279 tapes that he could find at radio shack and that's 382 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:16.559 what he recorded it all on. And I doubt that 383 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.759 that stuff had more than about a ten or fifteen 384 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.839 year lifespan before that tape got brittle, So somebody took 385 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:26.480 the time to copy it onto something better, and eventually 386 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.640 it made it into the digital age, you know, like 387 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:32.480 two or three decades later, when the digital age erupted it, 388 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.480 so it's still it's still there. You can you can 389 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:41.319 go there and listen to physicists TC talking about what 390 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.880 he's experiencing while in and out of body state. It's 391 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:47.680 it's all it's all there. Yeah. When I started working 392 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.519 with Bob, it was almost a decade before TMI was born. 393 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.279 As matter of fact, it was you know, Dennis. Dennis 394 00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:59.119 found the concept of binaural beats and an old scientific 395 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.200 American done in a late sixties, and he and I then 396 00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.799 optimized it while Bob was I think doing a program 397 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:08.960 at Esley and then on the West Coast, and by 398 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.640 the time he came back, that turned into his new 399 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.799 technology he incorporated along with his other sound that he 400 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.119 had was kind of a surfy rolling sound. He put 401 00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:23.839